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| MentalistTraceur | Hey all. For the record, I am sick and having difficulty being awake right now, so I might be less useful this meeting than usual. | 19:58 |
|---|---|---|
| qwazix | hello | 20:02 |
| kerio | yay meeting tiem | 20:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | Is DocScrutinizer05 here? | 20:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, I guess we can formally say that meeting has started. | 20:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | ##meeting-start | 20:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anything to bring up for the agenda by anyone else? | 20:08 |
| qwazix | the election rules/eligibility/process/whatever | 20:09 |
| qwazix | I wanted to reply to your mail but didn't find the time | 20:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | Also, Woody14619: what's happened on the Board side of things this week? Did they sign the transfer contract yet? I haven't noticed anything to that effect on forums, nor got anything like that by email. | 20:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: No worries - I only got around to sending that email just a couple hours ago after all. | 20:10 |
| Woody14619 | I've not heard from Jim since his last post in the forums. Rob has replied to other lines of questioning (around fixing the bank account), but took most of the week to reply to multiple calls for a meeting. | 20:11 |
| Woody14619 | His reply was that he's out next week, and has not heard from Jim. So "lets do it week after next". | 20:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | *facepalm* | 20:13 |
| Woody14619 | My centements. | 20:13 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, we also have a leftover from last time, the *patch thing. I was thinking if you could please start that tmo thread. | 20:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | So as I understand it, HiFo will now end up spending 1000+ USD on Nemein's hosting this month, even though we could easily be on our free-for-a-year infra from a technical perspective, right? | 20:15 |
| Woody14619 | There was also the election rules issue... | 20:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: acknowledged, I will try to get this done today. | 20:15 |
| Woody14619 | ? Not that I'm aware of. My understanding is that we're already running on the systems at IPHH. | 20:15 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, [20:09] <qwazix> the election rules/eligibility/process/whatever | 20:15 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, appreciated | 20:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: Yep, qwazix has already brought it up, I was just getting the shorter stuff out of the way. | 20:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | We have stuff running at IPHH, but I thought the maemo.org still pointed to the Nemein stuff? | 20:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | Or did we manage to get the DNS change through? | 20:16 |
| Woody14619 | We got Nokia to point their DNS server at us. A traceroute shows the path goes through IPHH now for *.maemo.org | 20:17 |
| Woody14619 | Nemien, AFAIK, shut off their servers on the 15th, per their plan. (Transfer happened on the 13th, as I recall.) | 20:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | Oh, okay. I seem to have completely missed any notification of this. Is it one of those 'you had to be on IRC' things? | 20:18 |
| Woody14619 | PS: You have DocScrutinizer05 and warefare to thank for that. | 20:18 |
| MentalistTraceur | (We have them to thank for virtually everything pertaining to maemo.org still being up.) | 20:18 |
| Woody14619 | No... there's a migration thread on TMO where it was also annoucned. But it could have been missed pretty easily if you weren't following that thread. | 20:18 |
| Woody14619 | MT: Agreed. | 20:19 |
| Woody14619 | (And xes, and a few others as well... Not to leave anyone out.) | 20:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Well, okay, that's not fair, other people did things essential to the infra still living, but they I'd say are responsible for the majority of it.) | 20:19 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, I've just forwarded you the mail I sent to council re: election along with MT's response | 20:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: Okay, gotcha re: thread announcement - I don't monitor any threads specifically usually, just drop by occasionally and browse what seems to be getting discussed at the time. My fault for missing it, then. | 20:21 |
| Woody14619 | Off topic, me & Doc the past 48 hours: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0881.html | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1328897#post1328897 | 20:21 |
| qwazix | btw a big "Thanks, techstaff@maemo!" is appropriate | 20:21 |
| Woody14619 | That's the thing about IT jobs. When you do them properly, nobody notices things changed. | 20:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: Agreed. | 20:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: A. hello. B. Thanks for all your time and work on this. ...Okay, so, I guess that's that. That leaves the election eligibility proposal topic and that whole mess? | 20:25 |
| qwazix | In general leaving actual details out, do you find the general idea I outlined in the mail correct? Can it work like that? | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we got a problem on tech side: I can't sustain my current policy of handling permissions on maintainers anymore, since it conflicts too much between what HiFo expects me to do and what is needed by techstaff so they can continue to do their work. I failed to install a policy that's both compatible with HiFo security needs and also acceptable by some of techstaff. So I drop that policy and refrain from further interfering, I just | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do what I originall promised to do: 30min/week to forwar requests from tech staff to HiFo and execute decisions of HiFo to accounts | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <ETX> | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry to everybody affected | 20:31 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: Basically, yes, I think. I mean, that was essentially the agreed upon approach last time - hold both 'council' elections simultaneously, using the same eligibility and rules (since they are virtually the same as is) at once. (The integration of the two bodies can be done formally later/afterwords.) | 20:31 |
| Woody14619 | I think you installed the policy just fine, and have been good in executing it. | 20:32 |
| Woody14619 | While I'm sad to see you feel otherwise, I'm happy you're not leaving the group entierly. | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I basically do | 20:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | I.e. they would be virtually the same since for the time being we'd essentially copy over the eligibility requirements from MCC to HFC election. | 20:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: That is very unfortunate, but understandable. | 20:33 |
| MentalistTraceur | What exactly about their policy is problematic? | 20:33 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Or technically infeasible or whatever?) | 20:33 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: I believe the nest course is to hold a referendum to edit just that section of the MCC rules (to repair the 3/5 issue) a week before the election. The plan you have laid out is also agreeable though. | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm supposed to oversee any possible security threat to maemo integrity. This requires cooperation by 100% of techstaff | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I promisted to HiFo I will not allow any such threat | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can't promise that any longer | 20:35 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, did something happen specifically regarding security? | 20:36 |
| qwazix | Or is it just that it requires too much time? | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | privilege escalations, generally speaking | 20:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: Does that edit even need to happen? Worst case scenario is 3 people run for both, and then we get a 3 person MCC immediately, and a delayed HFC election - but the goal is to merge them anyway, no? | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I implemented a policy that been based on a behaviour codex. That codex is not generally accepted by techstaff | 20:37 |
| Woody14619 | MT: It does not need to happen, no. In fact, the plan of action as it stands is similar to what I did 6 months ago. | 20:38 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05: I disagree with that. Most of the techstaff agrees to the standard. But as with anything, when a breakthrough occurs, there is a desire to cut corners. You (rightly) stopped that in this instance. | 20:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | Is the event you two are discussing something in the public knowledge? | 20:40 |
| MentalistTraceur | Or did this happen internally among the tech staff? | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever. Fact is that my policy isn't 100% supported. So I have to drop it and declare it as failed | 20:40 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05: I do not think anyone disagreed with your saying we needed to do snapshots first. The disagreemetn was mainly over the continued pontification after everyone stopped, which happened well before a single bit was changed on any server. | 20:40 |
| Woody14619 | MT: No.. this is over and argument in the admin channel. | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *my* disagreement was about sharing admin passwords and editing database and other stuff, without proactively *asking* or *taking care* for a snapshot first | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so no, my policy isn't accepted and doesn't get followed, I had to enforce it | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and this policy can't work when it needs to get enforced, it has to be followed voluntarily | 20:42 |
| Woody14619 | I see no reason that I (being appointed admin of a system) can not ask for the password for that system, when it is accidentally discovered by another tech member. | 20:42 |
| Woody14619 | The database call was correct. And it was not updated. | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first instance *admin* password isn't in any script. IF it were, the one who finds it doesn't share it to anybody else but comes to master sysop or security councilor immediately, with a security alert | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you NEVER share passwords. Particularly not master admin password | 20:45 |
| Woody14619 | No... it wasn't in a script. It was in the clear in the database, where anyone with db access can find it. | 20:45 |
| Woody14619 | And this was not a *master admin password*. | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and no maintainer *ever* edits user accounts on any system. This is a sysop job | 20:45 |
| Woody14619 | Thie was the password for the admin account on Midgard... nothing more. | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <Woody14619> jacekowski: can you share the admin pw with me (or mine) so I can poke around the admin interface? | 20:46 |
| Woody14619 | The admin password that he discovered IN THE DATABASE FOR MIDGARD. | 20:46 |
| Woody14619 | Not root. | 20:46 |
| Woody14619 | Not domain admin. | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-03-22 00:34:40] <jacekowski> Woody14619: i can change it though | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-03-22 00:34:45] <jacekowski> Woody14619: what do you want it to be | 20:47 |
| Woody14619 | For that he was talking about chaning MY ACCOUNT PASSWORD, which was *blank* in the database. | 20:47 |
| Woody14619 | So that I could log in and acces my own account on maemo.org | 20:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no maintainer *ever* changes *any* account | 20:47 |
| Woody14619 | I agree. | 20:48 |
| Woody14619 | Which is why when he asked it, I paused. | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you arguing about all that is exactly the point why I can't sustain my policy anymore | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so, I'll stop argue here. For me everything been said | 20:49 |
| Woody14619 | I would like to know one thing. | 20:49 |
| Woody14619 | Jacekowski found, in the database, the admin password for Midgard. While I was in the channel, knowing I'd be appointed maintianer for that system. | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, actually it's even more jacekowski's arguing | 20:50 |
| Woody14619 | What was the proper course of action for him to have taken? Mail that info to warfare, so that he could, in turn, hours later, mail me that info on to me? | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1) jacekowski probably never had found that password if he hadn't (ab)used privileges he's been granted to have read access to parts of system that are locked for normal users | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2) if he had found that password in a publicly accessable place, he had to immediately yell an alarm to warfare and me, and not share it to anybody | 20:53 |
| Woody14619 | You realize you asked, not 10 minutes before that: <DocScrutinizer05> please could somebody look into login on http://www.maemo.org? | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so how's that related to your fiddling with garage and voting? | 20:54 |
| Woody14619 | My ba... 3 hours before.. | 20:54 |
| Woody14619 | ??? | 20:54 |
| Woody14619 | My what? | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, your arguing shows why I decided I can't sustain such policy anymore | 20:55 |
| Woody14619 | I fiddled with nothing on garage. | 20:55 |
| Woody14619 | I said I susspected garage and www were linked, and wondered if copying my entry from garage's password files to www would allow user access. | 20:56 |
| Woody14619 | I was going to ask that an admin try doing just that, as you had JUST DONE THAT to fix a few accounts on garage the day before. | 20:56 |
| qwazix | Can you please do this after the meeting? | 20:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | What qwazix said (he beat me to typing something along those lines.) | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not going to do that anymore anywhere | 20:57 |
| qwazix | I'd like some input on the election thing so I can get out and you can argue all you want | 20:57 |
| Woody14619 | And voting: I was asked to fix. And frankly all it took was editing a publicly readable file to point to the right db server. | 20:57 |
| thedead1440 | hi all :) | 20:59 |
| qwazix | hi thedead1440 :) | 21:00 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: It seems we are basically in agreement - we'll copy-paste the current MCC eligibility requirements as the HiFo eligibility requirements for now; announce elections for both Councils at once, encourage people to treat them as the same thing, meanwhile get the referendum started to merge the two together (which can include the unelected 3 or 5 candidates council fix), | 21:00 |
| Woody14619 | ^^^ what he said. | 21:00 |
| Woody14619 | Not that I have any say in it. | 21:01 |
| qwazix | what about HiFo? | 21:01 |
| Woody14619 | What about it? | 21:02 |
| MentalistTraceur | and once both that referendum passes and election wraps up, the HiFo will have the council specified in its bylaws filled, whether or not they ever acknowledge this council as being a hifo council. | 21:02 |
| qwazix | Agreed that HiFo criteria should be identical? | 21:02 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: You mean HiFo board? | 21:02 |
| MentalistTraceur | Yes. | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | referendum *shoukd* happen before or during council election | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | ByLaws say FC gets to make those rules. Not HiFo. That's up to you folks. | 21:02 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, yes | 21:03 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, I know, I'm just asking if my proposal of using same set of rules is ok with everybody | 21:04 |
| qwazix | (Including you despite you not being council) | 21:04 |
| thedead1440 | one question: if HiFo's criteria is identical with Council criteria would 100 Karma still be required to run for HiFo Board? How would Jim run for a position in that case? | 21:04 |
| Woody14619 | I agree with DocScrutinizer05 on this, the best action would be to hold a referendum to alter MCC rules to match HF rules, preferably a week before to allow the effect to cascade on to this election cycle. | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe he needs to do some wiki edits ;-) | 21:05 |
| thedead1440 | hehe | 21:05 |
| qwazix | thedead1440, good catch | 21:05 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, +1 | 21:05 |
| Woody14619 | .oO(Or show up.. or reply to e-mail... or...) <-- Me, not being bitter, honest. | 21:05 |
| thedead1440 | i personally think the 100 karma criteria should be retained and an outsider like Jim would be suitable for an advisory position like he alluded to instead of a directorship | 21:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: The referendum doesn't significantly change anything about the election - even if the election happens beforehand, we can write the referendum to acocunt for the corner cases of there being, 5 or 3 candidates running for each. | 21:06 |
| qwazix | thedead1440, I agree | 21:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | I agree that we should get the referendum passed before election ideally, | 21:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | but aren't we literally required to announce election by next week or so? | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I think referendum can be faster than election | 21:07 |
| Woody14619 | MT: Agreed. We could announce the referendum tomorrow (or today). It's litererally a few sentences... | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even if we need to "be creative" with rules about timespans | 21:08 |
| qwazix | >> The referendum options must be debated for a minimum of 1 month prior to the referendum. | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or announce referendum today, with a one-sentence explanation of what it's all about | 21:08 |
| Woody14619 | Referendums must be 30 days, by MCC rules. | 21:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, so if we start a referendum along those lines today/tomorrow, we can be certain it'll pass by the time of the election. Okay. (For that matter, if it gets voted down, we're still in the same place we left off on...) | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then we have 30 days to debate that one sentence | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 21:10 |
| Woody14619 | Referendum: In order to repair special cases in MCC rules, and bring them into alignment with HFC rules, the following: (MCC rule list) Shall become (HFC rule list) | 21:10 |
| thedead1440 | 30 days is a fair enough time for allowing discussion etc | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if community votes down on HFC rules and unification, then we're screwed anyway | 21:10 |
| qwazix | ##channel spam warning## | 21:10 |
| qwazix | The Maemo Community Council election rules (http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process) are a good base to start with, but they have a drawback: While there is a provision to avoid unelected members for less than 5 members, this provision does not cover the actual number five resulting in all 5 candidates to be appointed councillors (what has currently happened). This should be corrected and the clause "If fewer than 5 | 21:10 |
| qwazix | candidates stand for election, the 3 with the most votes are elected to the council. " must be changed to "...fewer than or equal to five...". For the same reason, the clause "If there are fewer than 3 candidates when the nominations close, the election cannot be held. " must be changed to "...fewer than or equal to three...". | 21:10 |
| qwazix | ^^^ referendum announcement | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, fine with me | 21:11 |
| thedead1440 | yes that should indeed be covered | 21:11 |
| Woody14619 | That would seem to cover it. | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we got 30 days to debate | 21:11 |
| qwazix | Can I go now to tmo and post it? | 21:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | Isn't Woody14619's wording more concise? | 21:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | I also have the following concern, | 21:12 |
| Woody14619 | As I noted somewhere before, we can even sent one mailing with tokens for all elections (even the two not yet announced.) | 21:12 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, yes, but it needs some literature, even as an explanation. Actual question can be Woody's | 21:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | it does not account for the formal 'merger' of the two bodies, just the sync-ing of election rules. Is this in no way problematic? | 21:13 |
| Woody14619 | token gen does not require the other elections to be setup and in db. | 21:13 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Sincere question, not rhetorical) | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (mails with tokens) we should start on that RSN | 21:13 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, maybe not, as afterwards MCC == HC | 21:14 |
| qwazix | Maybe it's better to make it clear though that this is the outcome | 21:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | But that's the point, afterwords, the two bodies still technically exist separately. | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | +1 | 21:15 |
| qwazix | ok, coming back with a revised one, wait for me | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we should explain that from that referendum on, there will no two bodies anymore | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | will be* | 21:15 |
| Woody14619 | Or we can dub the election as MCC/HFC election. | 21:16 |
| thedead1440 | also the need for the body to be recognized as HiFo's FC should perhaps be explained to prevent confusion | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. when BoD calls "the big red" then there won't stay a last body standing in the ashes that's MCC | 21:17 |
| Woody14619 | "the big red"? Not familiar with that term. | 21:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | thedead1440: agreed. | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | call for re-election of both bodies | 21:18 |
| Woody14619 | Ahh. :) | 21:18 |
| kerio | Woody14619: the button to launch the nuclear missiles | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right now, while technically HiFo could call re-election of HFC, MCC would survive that | 21:19 |
| qwazix | ## Version 2 ## | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kinda lobotomy | 21:20 |
| qwazix | Since a few days ago we are now on our own and having a body that it's main function is to communicate with Nokia no longer serves a purpose. Another body with similar functionality is however provisioned by the ByLaws of the Hildon Foundation. We need to set up election rules for this new body (Hildon Foundation Council) and transform Maemo Community Council to Hildon Foundation Council. | 21:20 |
| qwazix | The Maemo Community Council election rules (http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process) are a good base to start with, but they have a drawback: While there is a provision to avoid unelected members for less than 5 members, this provision does not cover the actual number five resulting in all 5 candidates to be appointed councillors (what has currently happened). This should be corrected and the clause "If fewer than 5 | 21:20 |
| qwazix | candidates stand for election, the 3 with the most votes are elected to the council. " must be changed to "...fewer than or equal to five...". For the same reason, the clause "If there are fewer than 3 candidates when the nominations close, the election cannot be held. " must be changed to "...fewer than or equal to three...". | 21:20 |
| qwazix | Thus, a referendum is called with the following question: | 21:20 |
| qwazix | In order to repair special cases in MCC rules, and bring them into alignment with HFC rules, the following: (MCC rule list) Shall become (HFC rule list), and the Maemo Community Council will from now on be transformed into Hildon Foundation Council. Yes or No? | 21:20 |
| Woody14619 | +50 :) | 21:21 |
| thedead1440 | makes sense :D | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ack | 21:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | I'm okay with this. I'd've written a longer explanation, but that's just a personality flaw of mine - I talk too much. I approve. | 21:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | If there's some clarification or whatever that we think of later, | 21:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | they can always be made in the debate month. | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we got 30 days for that | 21:22 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, if you'd like to write it up better go ahead. I really recognize that your English skills are far better than mine | 21:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: *nod* Exactly my point. | 21:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: Nah, I think what you did write you wrote very well. | 21:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | Plus, the sooner we get this out there the better. | 21:23 |
| thedead1440 | so next topic then? :D | 21:23 |
| qwazix | thanks, so I'm going to post to tmo if nobody disagrees | 21:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | All in favor of posting this up ASAP? | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | i'd prefer MT posting it | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chair | 21:24 |
| qwazix | np with that | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is a very official council issue | 21:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* Very well. | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should get kicked off by chair | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next: we provisionally apply HFC rules for this election already | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly for the 3,5 rule | 21:26 |
| Woody14619 | I would suggest doing so ASAP after meeting, to allow max time for debate. Also allows election annoucement at end of next council meeting if desired (exactly 1 week offset so voting on it is done before voting starts on Council) | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after referendum we can approve it | 21:27 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: I'm already on it lol. At this point, it's a question of how fast I can thumb-type on the N900 and how fast microb gets me to posting it. | 21:28 |
| thedead1440 | if by next council meeting, HiFo doesn't announce its own election too would the Council be calling for both bodies' election officially instead then? | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if this time we can't make all ballots arrived at voters *before* voting starts, I'll be *really* pissed! | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | We should talk on that topic... I have an idea or two on how to accomplish that without being marked as a spam flooder. | 21:29 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Would it make sense, then, to include a line saying "Since this referendum will be resolved before the upcoming Council elections, if it passes it will apply to the upcoming election."? | 21:29 |
| Woody14619 | but thats for offline, not in meeting. :) | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: :nod: | 21:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: all in favour of it | 21:30 |
| thedead1440 | ok | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, ambiguous - *I* *am* all in favour of it | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno about rest of council | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *think* we all 3 uttered an "ack" on that tmo thread | 21:32 |
| thedead1440 | nm we get express approval; qwazix and MentalistTraceur agreed with Doc for above? | 21:33 |
| qwazix | announcing both bodies election? | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 21:34 |
| qwazix | YES with big Neon letters | 21:34 |
| MentalistTraceur | thedead1440: I am presently for it. However, if 1/3rd of the Board agrees, 1/3rd of the Board says we're not HiFo council so we have no power to do so, and 1/3rd of Board is unresponsive... | 21:34 |
| thedead1440 | haha | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 21:34 |
| MentalistTraceur | Not sure how much it'll actually do. | 21:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | Furthermore the f'ing transfer contract /still/ isn't signed. | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have the power to do so ;-D If HiFo accepts that is another question | 21:35 |
| Woody14619 | I am in agreeance. I have a "red button" of my own, but am hesetant to push it. | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but we don't need to refrain from calling for it just because HiFo thinks 1/3 we have no power to do that | 21:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Oh, I agree, but unless we have mobster connections I don't know about, not much we can do to enforce that power. | 21:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | So yes, thedead1440, we are all in agreement. | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have no power to enforce it maybe. But we should call for it nevertheless | 21:37 |
| thedead1440 | MentalistTraceur: you have Community power (more powerful than mobster connections) ;) | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | community is our power | 21:37 |
| Woody14619 | ^^^ that. | 21:37 |
| thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: my kitchen was first :p | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh! | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I was typing slow | 21:37 |
| thedead1440 | lol | 21:37 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, I vote for using this as official MCC tagline | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | community is our power ? | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds good | 21:38 |
| qwazix | hollywood trailer voice: Maemo Community Council: community is our power | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | better than "we do unlike" any day | 21:39 |
| thedead1440 | lol | 21:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | ...Can we make this a second referendum? 'Referendum: Official Council Motto will hereby be: "Comminity is Our Power"' | 21:40 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/Comminity/Community/ | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we don't need a referendum for this | 21:40 |
| MentalistTraceur | I'm just kidding really. | 21:41 |
| thedead1440 | and what would HiFo's tagline be? Obfuscation is our power? :p | 21:41 |
| qwazix | rotlfmao | 21:41 |
| MentalistTraceur | Although enshrining it in a referendum gives it it's own special assertion to it. | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "confusion will be our epitaph"? | 21:41 |
| Woody14619 | .oO(Order of DeMo-Delay) | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (sorry, King Crimson quote) | 21:41 |
| thedead1440 | hehe | 21:42 |
| MentalistTraceur | "Regular meetings? What's that?" | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | naaaah | 21:43 |
| thedead1440 | ah yes i too feel meetings should be defined | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "we are meetings" | 21:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | Question: where is hildonfoundation.org hosted? | 21:44 |
| thedead1440 | as in would the referendum allow for specifying in rules the frequency of meetings for HiFo Board too? once in 3 months is honestly a stretch as we've seen these past few months | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (note the fine sarcasm in that) | 21:44 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Noted loud and clear. :) | 21:44 |
| MentalistTraceur | thedead1440: Yes, but that would have to be a separate referendum. | 21:45 |
| qwazix | thedead1440, I don't think we should mix up BoD and Council things | 21:45 |
| qwazix | in the same referendum | 21:45 |
| Woody14619 | thedead1440: It would be fine if HiFo were limited to the scope it was originally invisioned with. But quarterly meetings + demands to micromanage = problem. | 21:45 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix: ok; makes sense | 21:46 |
| Woody14619 | I'd rather fix the latter than the former. | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *think* amendments to bylaws that don't _conflict_ or neuter (with) the bylaws are fine | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | +1 for not mixing though | 21:46 |
| qwazix | (and we also need to give new board a chance to fix things internally before forcing rules changes on them) | 21:46 |
| Woody14619 | The other issue being that bylaw changes don't require referendums... The require a vote of the board and Council. | 21:47 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, +50 | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: it's merely impossible to fix the bylaws | 21:47 |
| MentalistTraceur | Should I start the thread title '[Referendum]', '[Referendum] [Council]', or '[Council] [Referendum]'? | 21:47 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, the 2nd one | 21:47 |
| MentalistTraceur | ..or '[Referendum/Council]', or '[Council/Referendum]'? | 21:47 |
| thedead1440 | MentalistTraceur: i think 2nd one would be more appropriate | 21:47 |
| Woody14619 | Council has the ability to call for a referendum to form it's opinion. But it's not required to do so. | 21:47 |
| thedead1440 | damn slow typing "_" | 21:48 |
| qwazix | thedead1440, are you mod in that forum? Can you do something to make it more visible (sticky maybe?) | 21:48 |
| thedead1440 | post it in Community i'll make it sticky then | 21:48 |
| qwazix | thanks | 21:48 |
| Woody14619 | with luck, I may have figured out maemo.org login, so that may be fixed by next week. Can make a blog post of it, once you can log in. ;) | 21:49 |
| thedead1440 | btw MentalistTraceur's question of hifo.org's hosting is appropriate. mtr shows its hosted at bluehost.com; who's paying for it and what's the current status i.e. who knows the status? | 21:49 |
| Woody14619 | Tim is paying for it, and he is still acting admin for it on request. | 21:50 |
| thedead1440 | ah | 21:50 |
| Woody14619 | For now, I don't see that changing until after next election. | 21:50 |
| Woody14619 | GA also has limited admin rights on the site (can do updates). | 21:51 |
| thedead1440 | shouldn't it be moved to IPHH if possible to save Tim's costs too? Isn't it unfair on him to be picking up the tab? | 21:51 |
| Woody14619 | As does Cosimo I believe (to update donor list) | 21:51 |
| qwazix | what do we do if we don't have enough candidates? | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now who's going to drum up candidates for HFC and BoD elections? | 21:52 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, lol | 21:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | About to post, final check to see if I messed up anything. | 21:52 |
| Woody14619 | I think right now it's dangling off an existing thing he already has. So no a cost, just an inconvenience. | 21:52 |
| thedead1440 | ah that's better then | 21:52 |
| thedead1440 | the current 3 Council would be standing for re-election right? So that's 3 lesser candidates required :D | 21:53 |
| Woody14619 | thedead1440: thus the "let it be till next election". But I think eventually it will consolidate. | 21:53 |
| thedead1440 | ok | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: I strongly discourage having HiFo website on IPHH/maemo infra. They should stay independent | 21:53 |
| Woody14619 | thedead1440: Quite the comedian. ;) | 21:53 |
| qwazix | thedead1440, no way | 21:53 |
| MentalistTraceur | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1330915#post1330915 | 21:54 |
| * Woody14619 is inclined to agree w/ Doc on that. | 21:54 | |
| Woody14619 | Separate infra for at least one point of contact is a good thing. | 21:54 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, shouldn't (MCC rule list) be expanded to the actual list? | 21:54 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: Should, but I just pasted what you gave me... | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | Static web hosting like that can be had for cheep these days... under $100 a year in the US, given the limited traffic it sees. | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | MT: You can edit it later with the proper bits, yes? | 21:55 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: Yes, should be able to. | 21:56 |
| qwazix | I just didn't want to spam the channel even more. A copy/paste of this should be enough | 21:56 |
| qwazix | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process | 21:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | Well, it's more than just a simple substitution of the entirety of that webpage. | 21:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | Or less than, rather. | 21:57 |
| qwazix | Not the entirety, just the first part before the table of contents | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | Hifo Bylaws (to find relevant parts) is here: http://hildonfoundation.org/docs/ | 21:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | Since that page talks about the eligibility requirements... | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | It mixes them. | 21:58 |
| MentalistTraceur | And we aren't referendum-ing any changes to that on the MCC side right now. | 21:58 |
| qwazix | The 5 council … … time as the council elections. | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we eventually are required to also post it to ML | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after editing finished ;-) | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and link to tmo post | 22:00 |
| Woody14619 | Rules 1, 2, 5, 10, and 11.2 are affect mainly, yes? | 22:00 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: How is 1 affected? That's in the eligibility side of things, no? | 22:01 |
| MentalistTraceur | Unless the nomination period's different? | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | Nomination periods are the same, but HFO requires a week between nomination ending and election starting for debate. | 22:02 |
| thedead1440 | MentalistTraceur: i suggest you block the second post of the thread so that you can add/remove modifications as per suggestions/discussions | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | Technically, most MCC elections have broken this rule. | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | As it should be 2 weeks for nominations, and then *wham* elections start. | 22:03 |
| qwazix | wiki is painfully slow... | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, indeed | 22:03 |
| Woody14619 | HFC spells out 2 weeks for nominations, 1 week for discussion, 1 week for voting... to clarify there's a desired delay between the two. | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since, what bad could a late nomination do? | 22:04 |
| * Woody14619 bites his tounge. ;) | 22:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "oooh unfair, that candidate stepped in and doesn't use a week to do adverisment for himself!" .oO(???) | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if a candidate isn't known because of late (self-)nomination, I think it's his own problem and not any problem for the other candidates or the voters | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or would we need to give other candidates to bitch about that late one for a week? | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | give...a chance* | 22:08 |
| thedead1440 | ~ping | 22:13 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody, does rule 2 strictly get changed? | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pong | 22:13 |
| sixwheeledbeast | pong | 22:13 |
| thedead1440 | i thought it went all quiet in here :D | 22:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | I.e. did the duration of the election itself differ in the bylaws? I thought not? | 22:14 |
| Woody14619 | No. | 22:14 |
| Woody14619 | I was just picking out the time-based rules. :) | 22:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, cool. | 22:14 |
| Woody14619 | It may also be nice to re-order the rules, since we're in "edit" mode anyway. | 22:14 |
| Woody14619 | Pull all the time ones first, then the qualification ones after... :P | 22:15 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/council_rules_referendum#MCC_Rule_List and http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/council_rules_referendum#HFC_Rule_List | 22:15 |
| Woody14619 | awesome... One edit I see... making it now in HFC rules. | 22:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: That misses the 1 week waiting/deliberation period. | 22:17 |
| Woody14619 | just amde the fix to that. :) | 22:18 |
| MentalistTraceur | And we should do an asterisk to the eligibility points in #1 and #3, saying that those | 22:18 |
| MentalistTraceur | hold on I already had it worded... | 22:18 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, where is that? | 22:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | "The exact eligibility requirements are determined by the HFC according to the Hildon Foundation bylaws in the Electorate and Nomination Requirements, but the current council proposes keeping the same elibility requirements". | 22:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: I can do that edit | 22:20 |
| Woody14619 | k, :) I edited the wiki, but feel free to undo and/or change that. | 22:20 |
| Woody14619 | rather I edited rule 1. :) | 22:20 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, Woody14619 ok thanks | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm out. Just for the record: I formally declare to HiFo that the promise I gave about maintainers can't ever do damage to maemo been based on a twofold of measures: restrictive handling of permissions and close supervision by me. I can't sustain either of both any longer, so it's up to HiFo to deal with new situation, I stop and supposed supervision of techstaff | 22:20 |
| Woody14619 | Oh, and 11.2 needs a fix. :P | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/stop and/stop any/ | 22:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Alright. Anything anyone has to add for the meeting at this point, or shall we adjourn? | 22:22 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix mentioned the *patch thing at beginning of meeting | 22:23 |
| thedead1440 | is it resolved? | 22:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | Â*Nod* Not yet, still need to post thread today-ish about it. | 22:23 |
| thedead1440 | ok | 22:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | It's on my todo, sometime after this is done. | 22:24 |
| MentalistTraceur | Now, how do I put an asterisk on the wiki without it being turned into a dot? | 22:24 |
| MentalistTraceur | (At the beginning of a line?) | 22:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | <pre> </pre> | 22:24 |
| Woody14619 | ok... 11.2 is updated... It doesn't quite match the bylaws (which say Board decides), but... I think that part needs to be updated in the Bylaws frankly. | 22:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | or <nowiki></nowiki> ;) | 22:25 |
| sixwheeledbeast | MentalistTraceur: ^^^^ | 22:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | Thank you. What's the difference between the two? | 22:26 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: double check I didn't erase your edits with mine. | 22:26 |
| thedead1440 | one more point to be raised; can an official explanation be asked from HiFo on why donations of some people are bouncing back to them? | 22:26 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: Double-check now that is. | 22:26 |
| Woody14619 | thedead1440: bank screwup. I'm working on it now. | 22:27 |
| qwazix | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process#Current_referenda | 22:27 |
| thedead1440 | Woody14619: oh ok; since you are part of the BoD, could you please post this here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88222&page=12 | 22:27 |
| Woody14619 | thedead1440: Thank you. :) | 22:27 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders whom to send the bills for his maemo related expenses of last 3..4 months | 22:27 | |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: You added the "in conjuction with the Hildon Foundation Board ...", right? To 11.2 | 22:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | ? | 22:28 |
| Woody14619 | doc: board@hildonfoundation.org I for one will vote to remburse... | 22:28 |
| Woody14619 | Yup. | 22:28 |
| Woody14619 | I bolded my changes to 1 and 11.2 as per what qwazix did for his changes to 10/11. | 22:29 |
| Woody14619 | To draw attention to the changes made. | 22:29 |
| qwazix | I think the post on tmo should just contain links to wiki where (* rules list) to avoid an oversize post that no-one will read | 22:29 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix: +1 | 22:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | MentalistTraceur: <nowiki> doesn't strip html whereas <pre> does. | 22:30 |
| MentalistTraceur | sixwheeledbeast: Ah, thank you. | 22:31 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: While I would normally agree... wiki is world editable. :( | 22:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | IIRC anyway | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: would you know how to implement a login-protected closed section in wiki.m.o? | 22:31 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, can't we lock that page? | 22:31 |
| Woody14619 | Good for colaboration, not so good if someone changes it. | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: I can lock pages | 22:31 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: Good point, but I'm really feeling lazy, lol. | 22:32 |
| Woody14619 | Can you? If you can, then please do and use it. :) | 22:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | So if DocScrutinizer05 can lock that page, please to that. | 22:32 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: I don't follow a protected page only for certain members? | 22:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Will we still be able to edit it?) | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | URL please | 22:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/council_rules_referendum | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: yep | 22:32 |
| Woody14619 | If you can lock it to just council that's good. :) Neils told me it wasn't an option when I asked 6 months ago. | 22:33 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: rwx, r__ or all? | 22:33 |
| Woody14619 | er.. 9 months ago? | 22:33 |
| Woody14619 | When doing Bylaws.... | 22:33 |
| qwazix | Or just lock it after we finish it. Referendum proposal should be immutable anyway | 22:33 |
| qwazix | we can use another page to track the progress if we need | 22:34 |
| Woody14619 | work calls... be back when I can | 22:34 |
| MentalistTraceur | K, let me bold the asterisks, and then I think it's done/good. | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: the plan is to set up a section with "secret" info for techstaff | 22:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | Oh, it's already locked. | 22:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, I say it's all good and ready. | 22:35 |
| qwazix | yay! | 22:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | Unless someone sees anything else we missed, we're pretty much done. | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shall i unlock it again? | 22:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Not really necessary I think. It was just a stylistic change. | 22:36 |
| qwazix | (or 3) and the * clause should be bold | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: so techstaff can read and edit, while normal users can't even read | 22:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: You think the * should be bold? | 22:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay then, DocScrutinizer05 please unlock it again. | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | np | 22:37 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, as it's a new thing, yes | 22:37 |
| sixwheeledbeast | mmm, I have edited many wiki's but never come across this. While I understand the reasons this defeats the object of a wiki. Why not a locked g.account? | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | done | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: we just pondered | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I suspected it should be possible, others said it probably isn't | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems others were right | 22:39 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, either way there should be a vault with info in case of bus incident | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we might set up our own techstaff wiki, with restricted access to whole server | 22:40 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Should be done. | 22:41 |
| MentalistTraceur | You can lock it again when ready. | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably e.g. monitor VM should have enough resources still | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when ready? | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | know what? | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll add you to admins | 22:42 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Are you sure I ought to be trusted with that capacity? | 22:42 |
| MentalistTraceur | What if I am really secretely Evil(TM)? | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, what's your user name? | 22:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | mtraceur | 22:44 |
| MentalistTraceur | I would have that as my IRC name on here too, I just for some reason ended up registering the full spelling with freenode for some reason at the time. | 22:44 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: Seems after some research there's a *patch that can make private pages on Mediawiki sites. It's a beta and has lots of warnings. Doesn't come on MediaWiki as std. | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq I can't find a user mtraceur | 22:45 |
| qwazix | having a seperate wiki is a better idea IMO | 22:46 |
| qwazix | harder to go down | 22:46 |
| Woody14619 | sixwheeledbeast: It's somewhat security through obscurity though last I looked at it. | 22:46 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer see history of edits to page for exact username | 22:46 |
| MentalistTraceur | Hmm, I'm not sure why you wouldn't. This is the username I use to sign in to wiki, right? | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it always autocapitalizes search string | 22:46 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 headdesks | 22:46 | |
| MentalistTraceur | Oh, lol. | 22:47 |
| * Woody14619 agrees. Good place for admin wiki may be on DB? Since it's already semi-hidden. | 22:47 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what a SHITE! | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Special%3AListUsers&username=mtraceur&group=&limit=50 | 22:47 |
| sixwheeledbeast | lmao | 22:48 |
| thedead1440 | why the heck did i end up in those results | 22:48 |
| Woody14619 | same as empty search... finds all users. | 22:49 |
| thedead1440 | the search algorithm is so...broken... | 22:49 |
| MentalistTraceur | Am I supposed to have something on this url: | 22:49 |
| MentalistTraceur | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Mtraceur | 22:49 |
| MentalistTraceur | To show up in search? | 22:49 |
| MentalistTraceur | Maybe that's why it fails? | 22:49 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Shrug* | 22:50 |
| sixwheeledbeast | MentalistTraceur: Only if you put something there | 22:51 |
| MentalistTraceur | sixwheeledbeast: That's my point, should I put something there to make it work? I can't think of a good technical reason why that would be so... | 22:51 |
| MentalistTraceur | but frak knows who programmed what into that wiki code originally...*shrug* | 22:52 |
| thedead1440 | MentalistTraceur: technical reason? search is broken? | 22:52 |
| sixwheeledbeast | No, it's since the infra move it's case mayhem broken logs etc etc | 22:52 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/case/caused/ | 22:52 |
| * qwazix waves goodbye | 22:53 | |
| thedead1440 | see ya qwazix | 22:53 |
| qwazix | unless there's something else to discuss | 22:53 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: Nope, meeting essentially ended a while ago. | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: check! | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: your username is mtraceur, not Mtraceur | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fsck autocapitalization | 22:56 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix: if you stick around you would in a few moments get Doc ranting about how xyz is broken thanks to Nemein. He'll add KDE to that list too then but ofc not blame nemein for that ;) | 22:56 |
| thedead1440 | yes! he did it so fast :D | 22:56 |
| qwazix | lol | 22:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Yeah, I know, though when I clikc on my username it takes me to the page with the first letter autocapitalized. | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nut according to URL | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not* | 22:57 |
| qwazix | If I stick around I'll start thinking that we won't have enough candidates again and I'll *maybe* go mad | 22:57 |
| * Woody14619 made his wikipage a while ago and didn't even realize it did that... but it did... | 22:57 | |
| thedead1440 | hehe | 22:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Well, if I am signed into the wiki, and click on the "mtraceur" at the top-right-ish area, it takes me to http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Mtraceur | 22:58 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, look what Media Wiki does to the name of the page | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 22:58 |
| qwazix | council_rules_referendum -> council Rules Referendum wtf | 22:58 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: Lol. | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, MentalistTraceur added admin | 22:59 |
| qwazix | css( text-transform: capitalize; ) | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus you should be able to edit that page | 22:59 |
| qwazix | which doesn't apply for chars not starting new words | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if admin is sufficient to lock/unlock pages | 23:00 |
| qwazix | so it's not media-wiki, but rather the maemo template :) | 23:00 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Admin page is empty do we have a list of them :) http://wiki.maemo.org/maemo.org_wiki:Administrators | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Special%3AListUsers&username=&group=sysop&limit=50 | 23:02 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: But afaik I don't even have a usename of "MentalistTraceur" for the wiki (or garage or logically any other part of *.m.o). | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, so? | 23:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: I'm so confused. Where am I an admit at, now? | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please rephrase | 23:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | Wait, I think I misunderstood your earlier statement... | 23:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | nvm for a moment. | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Community_Council/council_rules_referendum&action=edit§ion=1 | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Warning: This page has been locked so that only users with administrator privileges can edit it. | 23:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, I think it works. I see a "Unprotect" option. | 23:07 |
| thedead1440 | Doc that pages shows you to be a bureaucrat (along with admin); i thought you hated bureaucracy :p | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you got a menu entry "unlock" at right, then admins are allowed to lock/unlock as well | 23:07 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I can confirm I can't edit said page | 23:07 |
| sixwheeledbeast | only "view source" | 23:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod*, if I click Unprotect I get to a menu that allows me to change the protection options... | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so, I'm no longer needed for maemo ;-P | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 23:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: You are always needed. Without you we would be groveling in the mud, having to subsist on iStuff and Androids... | 23:09 |
| * thedead1440 goes to sleep too... Good night people (at last a civil and breezy meeting) :) | 23:10 | |
| MentalistTraceur | ...at least eventually, as the infra would be dead right now. | 23:10 |
| * Woody14619 comes back in time to agree with MT... | 23:10 | |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, anyway, meeting's been formally over for a bit now, and now we know that I can unprotect/protect that wiki page if we think of any more edits. | 23:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | Referendum is officially on the table as of a little while ago. | 23:11 |
| Woody14619 | Did you edit the TMO post? | 23:11 |
| Woody14619 | And mail the mailing list with it? :) | 23:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | And we have to announce our elections next week, I believe. | 23:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | Oh, crap, mailing list. | 23:12 |
| * MentalistTraceur groans. | 23:12 | |
| Woody14619 | Sorry. :) But it's important. :) | 23:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | Someone remind me the email address? | 23:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | list@maemo.org or something? | 23:13 |
| Woody14619 | maemo-community@maemo.org | 23:14 |
| Woody14619 | and cc maemo-announce as well | 23:14 |
| Woody14619 | http://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo | 23:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | Thank you. | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: get well soon! | 23:17 |
| Woody14619 | List is now showing bug mailing list and rtcomm? Did it always do that? Hmm... | 23:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Thank you! | 23:18 |
| MentalistTraceur | I should a link to the thread from the mailing list email, right? | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right | 23:20 |
| Woody14619 | Should be enough, but include a bit of text about it being a referendum at least. :) | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1330915 | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should copy thext of first post, plus link to first post | 23:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* I was naturally copying the text of the post itself, | 23:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | just wanted to make sure about the link. | 23:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | Ã(Although it seems a bit obvious to have done the link too) | 23:21 |
| Woody14619 | k, work calls off.. thanks all | 23:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | Email is out! | 23:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | Referendum is fully live. | 23:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | :D | 23:26 |
| MentalistTraceur | Wait, crap... | 23:26 |
| MentalistTraceur | Mail delivery subsystems problems... I did something wrong. | 23:26 |
| MentalistTraceur | <maemo-community@lists.maemo.org> (expanded from | 23:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | <maemo-community@maemo.org>): mail for lists.maemo.org loops back to myself | 23:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | That might not have been me doing something wrong... | 23:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Shall I forward you the error? | 23:30 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: I forwarded you the messages I got back from "Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DEAMON@maemo.org>" | 23:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | Please forward that to the appropriate tech staff (I didn't want to forward it to techstaff@maemo.org in case it was something I did wrong so as to not waste everyone's time... | 23:33 |
| sixwheeledbeast | anybody left .... | 23:58 |
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