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| ivgalvez | hi | 20:01 |
|---|---|---|
| kerio | 'lo | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi | 20:01 |
| qwazix | hi | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare is excused, he might take a while and join later, or might not be able to join at all | 20:02 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright. So we have basically everyone, since NielDK is usually absent anyway. | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi ivgalvez, nice to see you around :-) | 20:02 |
| ivgalvez | I could make it this week | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I may have to semi-quit in 30min for ~15min | 20:03 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, so, quick question: DocScrutinizer05 said that Pali ended up sending an e-mail to Nokia about key issue: Did he ever get a response? | 20:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | Aside from that, what do you all have for the agenda? | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so yeah, let me first announce officially that maemo has an officially approved master sysop: warfare. He already tackled stuff and brought repo to us yesterday. welcome on board (again), warfare | 20:04 |
| * MentalistTraceur chears | 20:05 | |
| ivgalvez | great | 20:05 |
| ivgalvez | I have one point to bring: scratchbox.org migration and hosting | 20:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/chears/cheers/ | 20:05 |
| ivgalvez | If you read latest Board minutes it's decided to fund scratchbox.org activities | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | about that mail to nokia, I still miss the original request and definition of what that mail shall be about | 20:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Apparently we were supposed to explain to them wtf is up with the pgp/gpg key issue so that they would do something about it. | 20:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: that's nonsense since there's been a lengthy thread with a lot of mails back and forth between Nokia-extrnal and community/cssu members | 20:07 |
| *** ivgalvez has quit IRC | 20:08 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so everything already got explained to them in loving verbosity | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | heck, we even created a wikipage about that topic | 20:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Then I don't know why that wasn't mentioned last week, when we went and added it as an action item. But alright. | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't add that | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, back to agenda | 20:09 |
| kerio | the nokia dude asked for that mail to show to the higher-ups or something silly like that | 20:09 |
| ivgalvez_ | He said: "Now it is our turn to contemplate on what our next action will be" | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly, in one sub-sentence | 20:10 |
| ivgalvez_ | they had all the info | 20:10 |
| ivgalvez_ | and they have to decide their course of action | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: so could we create something like an agenda? | 20:11 |
| ivgalvez_ | MentalistTraceur did you noted about scratchbox.org? | 20:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Define create? Formally list up? That's why I asked who had what to add. ivgalvez_: Elaborate on what you mean by noted? I saw that you said that just now, yes, if that's what you mean. | 20:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | I would say first item on agenda is letting ivgalvez_ finish anything else he had to say re:scratchbox and other matter. | 20:13 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/matter/matters/ | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my points: a) short info about current migration status. b) HiFo's understanding of what migration means and what shall be done c) HiFo's general information policy regarding keeping those who are concerned up to date about what's going on. | 20:13 |
| ivgalvez_ | add d) Scrarchbox.org migration | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 20:14 |
| kerio | e) rmo autobuilder? | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 20:15 |
| ivgalvez_ | included in a) ? | 20:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, that's fine by me. So, point A? | 20:15 |
| Woody14619 | o/ | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi Woody14619 | 20:15 |
| * MentalistTraceur waves | 20:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I asked somebody to remind me about some topic in this meeting | 20:16 |
| kerio | do you remember who it was? :P | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I had a rationale why I did: I forgot what it been | 20:17 |
| Woody14619 | f) setting up recurring payments for donations? :) | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez_ | someone called Alzheimer? | 20:17 |
| kerio | let's make it f) donations in general | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez_ | OK please proceed with point A DocScrutinizer05 | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I already introduced our new sysop Falk stern aka warfare. | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he managed to ramp up repository.m.o yesterday | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we basically gave up on FW and decided to live with a boot every 12h to keep it alive | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wirr and others started a discussion about what OS and virtualization we'll want on our servers | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only today it became fact that migration has to be finished at end of February, basically | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (more on that in b) and c)) | 20:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | So we have a month to migrate again, from expensive interim to long term sustainable infra? | 20:21 |
| jyrjyr | Ok | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | our other sysops-in-spe and a few other related guys meet in a closed channel where that discussion happens | 20:21 |
| ivgalvez_ | DocScrutinizer05 I thought it was clear for everybody and from the very beginning that Nokia wiould only pay for two months | 20:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | I think he means "became fact" as in now we know exact date? | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: nope, it's *my* plan to keep and pay the servers for one, 2, even 3 months and do migration#3 during that period | 20:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay. | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez_: no, it wasn't | 20:22 |
| Woody14619 | To be clear. We must migrate by end of month or start paying crazy fee... Not the best alternative, but... We could "buy" another month. So, harsh wall vs hard wall. | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Eero thought we got til end of March | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bergie never been too sure about end of Feb or end of Mar | 20:23 |
| ivgalvez_ | Well that's what we were told by Nokia | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rob cited in a mail 2h old, that Nokia would pay for migration (excess) if migration not done til end of Feb | 20:24 |
| ivgalvez_ | but we haven't had any more communications since December | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and who the heck is in charge to controll all that? | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo (in Rob's mail) is assuming $random-number $$ for hosting after Mar 1st | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody explains what those numbers are based on and who agreed on them | 20:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (btw we're already in b),c) ) | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 20:26 |
| jyrjyr | If I may, I'd like to mention that wirr and I have put together a proposal of how the 1-3 month temporary hosting period could be arranged with the hardware available at the budget at use. We can take care of the whole next phase of the migration with warfare, helping to sort out, optimize and document the whole thing during the process. We're experienced and fast, and even though four week isn't much I'd say we have good chance of getting it done. | 20:26 |
| kerio | will we move out of the xengrid for that? | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jyrjyr: thanks, but taking care is my business | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | discussion about how to config the servers happens in that other channel as i already mentioned | 20:28 |
| jyrjyr | Doc, I understand it's your business. I've also been told to be open about my proposals, taking them to the council. | 20:28 |
| jyrjyr | Anyways, we can certainly continue on the admin channel later on. =) | 20:29 |
| MentalistTraceur | (For what it's worth, if jyrjyr thinks they can make a migration done in that time, I'm all for it. Less money to spend on hosting for the expensive interim solution means more money for HiFo to budget on other ways of furthering the stated goals of the Foundation) | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the question for now is who's coordinating what Nemein will deliver, when, based on which agreement | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: there's more to migration than two volunteers willing to do it | 20:31 |
| jyrjyr | yes, that's why i thought bringing this proposal up would be timely, despite the repetition. there has to be some criteria about what kind of hw is bought, even if it was temporary. | 20:31 |
| jyrjyr | two volunteer professionals with tens of years of experience on this stuff. not to boast, just to mention. ;) | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jyrjyr: I just try to find out about who decides what hw will get bought (btw this topic already got answered) | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jyrjyr: we don't need an application talk here | 20:32 |
| jyrjyr | this isn't application talk, if i understand what you mean | 20:32 |
| jyrjyr | i'm talking about designing the server hardware, software, file systems, the whole thing | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | AIUI Nemein is in charge to hand something working to "community" | 20:33 |
| jyrjyr | it's not just something you pull out of the air | 20:33 |
| jyrjyr | have to have a clear idea of what it is you want to be done | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jyrjyr: please! | 20:33 |
| ivgalvez_ | DocScrutinizer05 you've been told several times that hardware is proposed by Nemein (according to their agreement with Nokia) and approved by Council (particularly you) | 20:33 |
| jyrjyr | i'll mute myself ;) | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez_: exactly | 20:33 |
| ivgalvez_ | At the beginning we thought it'd be three servers | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so we don't need any discussion like that here now | 20:34 |
| ivgalvez_ | then we were told that they will be 2 | 20:34 |
| ivgalvez_ | that's something between Nokia and Nemein | 20:34 |
| chem|st | is that really of your concern? | 20:34 |
| ivgalvez_ | then for the 2 servers, we have the specs | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and last week Fri I suggested to HiFo to give OK to Nemein to buy that server according to their specs | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yesterday we finally seen an answer from HiFo | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so the topic "what hardware do we want" is *done* | 20:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, let's wrap this up - I'm pretty sure jyrjyr meant what hardware we want for next migration rather than this one, but we can discuss further later/elsewhere. So Joerg, you said we're on B/C of agenda already, and I'm inclined to agree with you on the concern you've started to mention, about HiFo's general information policy etc. | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though rob still confabulates of "the servers and other hw" | 20:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Less so because of any specific lack of information that I see, but mainly because I'm just rather confused at times by what criteria determines who finds out what/when, and where do the lines lie between what Board does on their own, and what they've delegated to council, migration-wise. | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what I'm honestly missing is HiFo taking care about their core business: contracts and money. and talk with Nemein about that stuff, while including council / consultants(=me) for the tecnical aspects which evidently HiFo isn't up to date to put it friendly | 20:39 |
| ivgalvez_ | DocScrutinizer05 what talk with Nemein are you referring to? Rob has only asked about information of the servers | 20:41 |
| ivgalvez_ | everything is delegated in YOU | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's simply unbelievable that Eero had no idea about end of Feb is deadline, and HiFo has no proper idea about the costs or general config of what's gonna be hosted after end Feb | 20:42 |
| ivgalvez_ | Eero is working for Nemein, I assume that Nemein knows for how long is Nokia paying for | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez_: yes, exactly. I suggested to HiFo to go ahead and give green light to nemein to finally purchase servers, and 6 days later Rob asks for "paperwork of those servers" | 20:44 |
| ivgalvez_ | and we are still pending to receive your long email explaining the migration plan | 20:44 |
| MentalistTraceur | (I would say Eero not knowing proper deadline is more likely to be the fault of whoever had that information in Nemein, than Board. I.e. it's understandable that they would expect Nemein's people to know those dates.) | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the migration plan is as explained in my answer to rob's mail: migrate stuff to the servers, then pay those for a month or two and during that time find better place and migrate there. then get rid of those server irons | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nuttin to explain in a long mail | 20:45 |
| ivgalvez_ | you told you were about to send it two weeks ago | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez_: *I* thought *you* know this since ~6..8 weeks now | 20:46 |
| ivgalvez_ | I do, but if you are going to blame others that are not here... | 20:46 |
| ivgalvez_ | I don't see anything positive in this conversation | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, ivgalvez_. nobody til today told council what we have to anticipate will nemein hand to us | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't you think that any decent plan should be built on decent basics? | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's the deal between Nokia, HiFo, and Nemein? | 20:48 |
| ivgalvez_ | I don't understand what's your point | 20:48 |
| ivgalvez_ | We haven't received any answer from Nokia since December | 20:48 |
| ivgalvez_ | that's something I have already told you | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever | 20:48 |
| Woody14619 | I don't think anyone is blaming anyone. I think someone is expressing frustation at the lack of communication, in that not all players are on the same page. | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afk for 15min | 20:48 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, I sense this has a high chance of turning into argumentative discussion, so I propose we pause this - get the Scratchbox.org and donations points of the agenda discussed, then if you guys still have time and are so inclined, come back to this. | 20:49 |
| ivgalvez_ | Scratchbox.org needs to be migrated to new infrastructure | 20:49 |
| ivgalvez_ | Nokia is OK about HiFo taking care of it | 20:50 |
| ivgalvez_ | and HiFo is OK about paying the bills | 20:50 |
| Woody14619 | Scratchbox, from what I knew, was contained on one VM image before it was shutdown, was it not? | 20:50 |
| ivgalvez_ | at the very beginnig, scratchbox.org guys received a VERY expensive quote from Nemein | 20:51 |
| ivgalvez_ | yes it's just a VM | 20:51 |
| Woody14619 | I was slightly confused why we weren't pulling it along by default, since we do kind of need it... | 20:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | People not being on the same page is important to resolve, but we all have limited time for a single contiguous meeting, and this kind of stuff typically takes a while to discuss. So, if no objections, onto scratchbox.org topic. ivgalvez_? | 20:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | Ooops, sorry, client didn't scroll for new text | 20:52 |
| ivgalvez_ | the question I need to bring now to Council | 20:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | I thought no one was saying anything. | 20:52 |
| ivgalvez_ | about how to handle the migration | 20:52 |
| ivgalvez_ | the scratchbox.org guy needs help from our sysops/volunteers | 20:53 |
| ivgalvez_ | and we need to arrange it all with Nemein | 20:53 |
| ivgalvez_ | and that is something to be organised by Joerg | 20:53 |
| ivgalvez_ | in order to avoid more misunderstandings | 20:54 |
| ivgalvez_ | the details of the VM are: | 20:54 |
| ivgalvez_ | 80GB Disk space, 2GB memory, 1 CPU core. | 20:54 |
| Woody14619 | It should be as simple as a vm restore to whatever hand-off we're getting (and DNS updates...) SB was far simpler than Maemo. | 20:54 |
| ivgalvez_ | There's wiki (moinmoin), bugzilla, mailinglists, darcsweb (for browsing repositories), static html site (generated & synced) and 60GB+ worth of binaries | 20:55 |
| ivgalvez_ | so my proposal to DocScrutinizer05 is that I'll send an introductory email to him and Jussy with Nemein in copy so they can arrange when and how install the VM | 20:56 |
| Woody14619 | Most of that doesn't change much though. SB had a couple dozen active users. Not the thousands of Maemo. The biggest impact is drive space. | 20:56 |
| Woody14619 | I don't think he'll object. | 20:58 |
| Woody14619 | Next topic? | 20:58 |
| MentalistTraceur | One thing, that most probably haven't noticed yet since it just said this last meeting: | 20:59 |
| MentalistTraceur | Joerg said he's pretty close to being burned out, due to how much he's been doing. | 20:59 |
| MentalistTraceur | So he might be in need of a break soon. Idk how that affects the above proposal though. | 20:59 |
| MentalistTraceur | That said, that's for him to answer. Anyway, next topic is *scrolls up* ... | 21:01 |
| Woody14619 | I think, given the fact he's already interacting with them on this... It's a pretty minor add. But it's his call. Saddly, I don't think this particular task can be broken up much, because it needs one central organizer. | 21:01 |
| MentalistTraceur | Either donations or autobuilder is next. | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | kerio? rmo autobuilder? | 21:02 |
| ivgalvez_ | regarding donations | 21:02 |
| ivgalvez_ | Cosimo updated the HiFo donnor webpage | 21:03 |
| ivgalvez_ | at the moment he's doing it monthly | 21:03 |
| ivgalvez_ | and he has set up a HiFo PayPal account | 21:03 |
| ivgalvez_ | that will be used instead of his account once he's able to access the bank account | 21:03 |
| ivgalvez_ | which is still not possible | 21:03 |
| ivgalvez_ | don't ask me why, banks are evil | 21:04 |
| Woody14619 | LOL. Ok. And I suppose setting up a recurring payment system will wait on that. | 21:04 |
| ivgalvez_ | so we are pending on him to be able to access the account for almost everything else | 21:05 |
| kerio | tell him to set up a bitcoin address too | 21:05 |
| ivgalvez_ | kerio let's get everything else working first | 21:05 |
| Woody14619 | Just want to strike while the iron is hot, as it were. Getting people into a recurring, even $5/month payment is easy when the memory of services being down is fresh. | 21:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | (BitCoin is something you could set up in like 15-20 minutes, I think) | 21:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | (That's if you have no experience with it) | 21:06 |
| ivgalvez_ | yes, but we don't want people to donate money to an account out treasurer cannot access | 21:06 |
| Woody14619 | Once you have proper access to the bank info, yes. | 21:06 |
| Woody14619 | Ivan beat me to it. :) | 21:06 |
| kerio | it would be the treasurer's address i suppose | 21:07 |
| kerio | and it's completely detached from the real world until you decide to do some conversions | 21:07 |
| Woody14619 | kerio: Should really be a separate thing, not treasurers, as it needs to hand off as that changes. | 21:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | Also, why is it that criminal organization have no problems setting up shell organizations and bank accounts from the USA, and HiFo is going for months without a proper bank account? | 21:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | :P | 21:08 |
| ivgalvez_ | :D | 21:08 |
| kerio | MentalistTraceur: because they've got $$$ | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no objections to scratchbox. we already have a Vm for it on xen-grid (well, nemein has) | 21:08 |
| * Woody14619 nods | 21:08 | |
| MentalistTraceur | kerio: point. | 21:08 |
| kerio | Woody14619: opening a bitcoin address is basically just launching the client and telling it to create a new one | 21:08 |
| ivgalvez_ | DocScrutinizer05 OK, then I'll send an introductory email | 21:08 |
| Woody14619 | kerio: is that you volunteering? ;) | 21:10 |
| kerio | Woody14619: i meant literally | 21:10 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: I was two years ago... | 21:10 |
| kerio | all the treasurer has to do is to download and launch the client | 21:10 |
| kerio | and then paste the address somewhere | 21:10 |
| * Woody14619 needs to look at this bitcoin thing | 21:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | What drives me nuts is Rob answering my question about our serevr iron and if there's a hw maintenance plan paid for it, with the funny answer "we got warranty, don't we?" Who T*F* will drive to $whereever-datacenter, pack the whole thing in a box, send it to manuf to get warranty repair, and who's going to host maemo.org during that 4 weeks the server is getting shipped around? | 21:11 |
| chem|st | I will add it to tmo as soon as I get to, you can personalize addresses, it needs to show up on hifo then too | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | That's what I menat when I started my rant against HiFo not doing *their* stuff but mine | 21:12 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: think of it as another paypal | 21:12 |
| kerio | chem|st: doesn't work at all as a comparison | 21:12 |
| chem|st | but without a company | 21:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | and without a formally legally recognized currency. | 21:13 |
| MentalistTraceur | ..but uber untraceable privacy. | 21:13 |
| chem|st | skip that topic | 21:13 |
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| kerio | MentalistTraceur: yeah but there's plenty of stable services to exchange countries' currencies with bitcoins | 21:14 |
| kerio | you pay something for conversions, but the internal transfer fees are basically zero | 21:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | Kerio: *Nod* And enough people who take bitcoins as having real value directly, so it's usable as real money in many ways. | 21:15 |
| qwazix | +1 for bitcoins to be set up asap | 21:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway... | 21:16 |
| qwazix | before bank account is available | 21:16 |
| kerio | this is besides the point i suppose, the main point is that it's an easy and kinda cheap way to take donations | 21:16 |
| kerio | so why not? | 21:16 |
| qwazix | kerio why don't you set it up? | 21:17 |
| kerio | qwazix: it should be the HiFo treasurer | 21:17 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st: you taking that as an action then? I'd assume funds into that would go into the HiFo pot, being the one TMO pulls from? :) | 21:17 |
| kerio | i can't just go ahead and start taking donations | 21:17 |
| kerio | i mean, i can, but... | 21:18 |
| qwazix | kerio create the account and hand over credentials to cosimo | 21:18 |
| kerio | qwazix: there's... no account to create :s | 21:18 |
| * Woody14619 was going to suggest that, but not being Council... and not understanding BitCoin... | 21:18 | |
| MentalistTraceur | Kerio, while you're here: where you the one who had to discuss something re:autobuilder? | 21:19 |
| qwazix | kerio whatever there is to do | 21:19 |
| Woody14619 | It looks like BitCoin is more like a PGP key system. You really don't want a non-trusted participant handling the private key... ever. | 21:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: You create keys/hashes/whatever. The person who holds the keys can spend the bitcoins associated with it. | 21:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | That's why you want HiFo's people to make it. | 21:20 |
| * Woody14619 nods. | 21:20 | |
| kerio | MentalistTraceur: i just wanted to ask if there's an ETA to get the autobuilder back to working - i assume doc and warf are waiting for the RMO situation to stabilize before doing anything for it? | 21:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | And ideally stick it in escrow somewhere in case the person who holds it gets hit by a bus. | 21:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | kerio: Not sure. Other council members? DocScrutinizer05 specifically? | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, rading backscroll | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | autobuilder is Niels/x-fade. I haven't heard of him since weeks | 21:24 |
| ivgalvez_ | can we at least get the repos back with scp? | 21:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | Which Niels is X-Fade? | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | breet | 21:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | K, thank you. | 21:26 |
| kerio | ivgalvez_: repository.maemo.org works, i'm not sure what you mean | 21:26 |
| ivgalvez_ | I don't see that autobuilder is that critical | 21:26 |
| ivgalvez_ | I mean that we can upload packages | 21:26 |
| MentalistTraceur | ivgalvez_: repos seem to be working, albeit slowly, as of a day or so ago. | 21:26 |
| ivgalvez_ | oh I didn't noticed | 21:26 |
| kerio | ivgalvez_: uploading packages works for cssu, but we can't trust everyone with access to extras | 21:26 |
| ivgalvez_ | what's the difference? | 21:27 |
| MentalistTraceur | I think autobuilder is inherently better than direct upload - when autobuilder builds the code, I have a higher assurance as end-user that the source uploaded with the package is exactly what got compiled. | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no uploading of binaries to extras! | 21:27 |
| MentalistTraceur | Else I have to manually compile it myself, then compare md5 hashes or whatever. | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless some trusted individual built themon his private PC | 21:27 |
| ivgalvez_ | you can build whatever shit you want and erase all user's data | 21:28 |
| ivgalvez_ | and autobuilder won't notice | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | trusted here means a known savvy distro maintainer | 21:28 |
| qwazix | non-free too | 21:28 |
| warfare | 'evenin. | 21:28 |
| ivgalvez_ | I mean we all know about a few dangerous packages in Extras | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi warfare, nice flieght? | 21:28 |
| ivgalvez_ | *-patch | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | Big difference. Autobuilder = pull from garage + build -> repo. If that happens, it's trackable. | 21:28 |
| kerio | ivgalvez_: you can, however, know what a package does from the source | 21:29 |
| Woody14619 | If someone puts a subtle hack in, it has potential to be spotted in code. | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | autobuilder == warranty that source matches binary | 21:29 |
| MentalistTraceur | No, but it's a smaller barrier of "verification of it being safe". Now instead of just looking at code to know it's safe, I have to do that AND compile it succesfully. | 21:29 |
| ivgalvez_ | OK I give up ;) | 21:29 |
| MentalistTraceur | I'm not saying it should be a high priority necessarily, | 21:30 |
| Woody14619 | IF not, I could publish source, then add a "cherry bomb" to the uploaded binary. | 21:30 |
| kerio | it's basically a guarantee that the binary works as coded | 21:30 |
| MentalistTraceur | but that it has value, and that value isn't so low so as to completely be negligible. | 21:30 |
| ivgalvez_ | but I recall someone uploading a system package that brick a lot of devices | 21:30 |
| kerio | granted, the code could still be wrong or evil | 21:30 |
| kerio | but it's supposed to be inspected before it reaches extras | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | our whole QA based on autobuilder and open source | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and extras-testing | 21:31 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hm, how do non-free packages reach extras? | 21:32 |
| Woody14619 | (Which has been lacking, honestly, as community size falls.) | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | source code supposed to be publicly reviewed | 21:32 |
| ivgalvez_ | once everything is in place I have to push again for promotion of orphaned applications | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | binary guaranteed to match source code, by autobuilder | 21:32 |
| Woody14619 | kerio: non-free is direct binary upload. So yes, it has this hole. Which is why some exclude it. | 21:32 |
| kerio | fair enough | 21:33 |
| kerio | anyway, noise - back to agenda | 21:33 |
| Woody14619 | I think that was the last agenda item? Unless we want to revisit b) & c)? | 21:33 |
| MentalistTraceur | I think that was the last item. | 21:33 |
| warfare | DocScrutinizer05: yes, thanks :) | 21:34 |
| Woody14619 | (We did the last two out of order) | 21:34 |
| MentalistTraceur | (woody beat me to it) | 21:34 |
| *** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:34 | |
| *** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:34 | |
| * Woody14619 sits quietly now... old habits die hard. ;) | 21:34 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: nah, please not | 21:34 |
| MentalistTraceur | So what woody said - if we want to discuss the B/C topics that boil down to people not being exactly on the same page and try to sort that now. | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my last rant went unresponded | 21:34 |
| ivgalvez_ | I only have a few minutes left | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so I guess it's through | 21:35 |
| ivgalvez_ | you know I don't use to respond to rants ;) | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I could repost it... | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | What drives me nuts is Rob answering my question about our serevr iron and if there's a hw maintenance plan paid for it, with the funny answer "we got warranty, don't we?" Who T*F* will drive to $whereever-datacenter, pack the whole thing in a box, send it to manuf to get warranty repair, and who's going to host maemo.org during that 4 weeks the server is getting shipped around? | 21:35 |
| Woody14619 | I think rather than a rant.. the better idea would be to figure out a way to get on the same page. | 21:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | ..but if you guys have to go (as ivgalvez just said he does), we covered everything else, and can adjourn. | 21:35 |
| ivgalvez_ | Doc you need to talk with Rob | 21:36 |
| warfare | DocScrutinizer05: Usually you get sent the parts, replace them and send them back. | 21:36 |
| Woody14619 | (Says the man ranting in TMO the past day...) | 21:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody: you're welcome to chime in at any time. You do a fine job of Chair-ing, formally chair or not. :) | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: yes, when you have a service plan | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: but who will send our defect parts and who will mount the spares? when that iron is CoLo'ed at $random-location picked by Nemein? | 21:38 |
| ivgalvez_ | I need to leave | 21:39 |
| ivgalvez_ | cheers | 21:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, bye. | 21:39 |
| *** ivgalvez_ has quit IRC | 21:39 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: (same page) that's why I explicitly invited (particularly) HiFo to join this meeting | 21:39 |
| thedead1440 | I'm of the opinion that Rob should drop-by one of these days and discuss issues with DocScrutinizer05 as it seems a widening chasm between the person who is /doing/ most of the work and the person who is part of BoD which is not good in the long term | 21:39 |
| kerio | who's the treasurer, btw? | 21:39 |
| * Woody14619 has a NOC nearby... Talk them into locating it here... :) | 21:40 | |
| thedead1440 | and ivgalvez left... | 21:40 |
| thedead1440 | kerio: Cosimo aka zehjotkah on TMO | 21:41 |
| kerio | is he ever on irc? | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cosimo? | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | harly | 21:41 |
| * Woody14619 nods. Perhapse that should be phrased nicely and put into a letter than HiFo should attend Council meetings and vice-versa. It's really not that much of an ask. An hour or two a week at most. | 21:41 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hardly even | 21:41 |
| MentalistTraceur | We're basically done anyway. I think we can figure this stuff out separately from meeting. | 21:41 |
| thedead1440 | for donations being updated i posted this: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1319910&postcount=91 | 21:41 |
| MentalistTraceur | (The communication issue) | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | roll it up then | 21:42 |
| thedead1440 | I think its basic courtesy to inform donors every 2weeks at maximum what's the current pot worth | 21:42 |
| qwazix | thedead1440 +1 | 21:42 |
| Woody14619 | I think the pot value is keep up to date. | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think weekly updates are not too much to ask for donations | 21:43 |
| Woody14619 | It's the donor list that's not, as that takes more work. | 21:43 |
| thedead1440 | Woody14619: weekly to once in 2 weeks is hardly work | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's same amount of work | 21:43 |
| thedead1440 | especially when you consider what work /others/ are doing for maemo infra i think its a shame to say one needs a month to update it | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whether you do it daily or momthly ;-P | 21:44 |
| kerio | isn't it a script? | 21:44 |
| Woody14619 | I'm not arguing that... | 21:44 |
| MentalistTraceur | Btw, I honestly thought board would attend all council meetings from the get-go. | 21:44 |
| Woody14619 | But then I haven't seen weekly meeting minutes either... ;) | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: +1 | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they seem strangely detached, form community, council, and reality, sometimes | 21:45 |
| thedead1440 | Remember Board is the new Nokia :p So silence is the best form of communication | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, the meeting minutes are becomming an issue | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: indeed | 21:46 |
| thedead1440 | if minutes are such an issue i don't mind volunteering to get them up if I'm around during the meeting | 21:46 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619; DocScrutinizer05: yes meeting minutes. I need to actually do those regularly. | 21:46 |
| thedead1440 | I can do a draft and email whoever to publish them | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: yes please, help MentalistTraceur | 21:46 |
| MentalistTraceur | I'm about to publish the ones for last week, after this meeting. | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meeting minutes are vital, in those fast times during migration | 21:48 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* | 21:49 |
| Woody14619 | Lol at Board being detached from reality. I've heard the same about Council from TMO. ;) Just saying. ;) | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I even feel one meeting per week is too far apart already | 21:49 |
| MentalistTraceur | For the record: I'm fully aware that I'm rather badly neglecting my duties by failing to do minutes. | 21:49 |
| MentalistTraceur | So if people, say, want me to step down from chair on that alone, I wouldn't hold it against them. | 21:50 |
| thedead1440 | also one more thing: Neil hasn't been around since 1st meeting iirc so IMO Council need to officially distance themselves from him as I'm sure bylaws have a provision saying a member is sacked if not having attended X number of consecutive meetings and I'm afraid this may set a precedent whereby future Councils can draw on current example if they rule in absentee | 21:50 |
| Woody14619 | doc: don't think anyone is asking that. You got your hands full with much more important tasks. | 21:50 |
| Woody14619 | thedead1440: as for Neil... There are provision in the Board bylaws for directors for that, but not Council. | 21:51 |
| thedead1440 | Woody14619: isn't that supposed to be applied both ways when we were discussing during drafts? | 21:52 |
| Woody14619 | Unfortunately, that happens at times. I'm happy we have as many active Council as we do (and non-council helping out where they can) | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: we don't need chair who steps back, we need somebody taking care of minutes ;-D | 21:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | Niels came to one meeting aside from that, actually, iirc. That said, my understanding is that he had some serious life issues? That said, I do agree we should probably remind him that it is very unpopular with some (many, arguably) community members. | 21:52 |
| thedead1440 | For me it makes no difference but any future Council can always say well this Council allowed 1 member to never be present without any action taken so it sets an unfortunate precedent | 21:52 |
| thedead1440 | and as we've seen precedents are dangerous considering the dark periods we are recovering from already :) | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's a point to consider, yes | 21:53 |
| Woody14619 | thedead1440: That's already happened. Rob was the lone-standing Council for some time during the term before I was Council... | 21:53 |
| thedead1440 | I think Council has to get together and do something about it | 21:53 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* I'd be happy to call for a referendum to update council rules, for removal of sufficiently inactive council members. | 21:54 |
| thedead1440 | Woody14619: that was under Nokia; that's why I'm alluding to the fact that precedents once set cause more issues | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we should send him a friendly mail asking if he's well | 21:54 |
| Woody14619 | And yes, there were provisions to for Council to do that, but they have to still be adopted by Council, which requires a referendum by the legal rules of it all. | 21:54 |
| MentalistTraceur | (If that's still a thing we can do, and not under board jurisdiction) | 21:54 |
| thedead1440 | like bringing the one-man Council now shows in the future the current situation can be brought in too and accountability is not there | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | No, in fact, it's required to be done by Council to bring Council into line with the Board bylaws. | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | But to do that, we need a working voting machine (and a working maemo.org login...) | 21:55 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Agreed, friendly check-up if he's well, but still noting that the community is starting to bristle at his absence. | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: for the record: AIUI HiFo has virtually no saying in council | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | It would probably be a good thing to do too, to make sure we (as a community) retain the knowledge needed to setup/run an election, frankly. | 21:56 |
| thedead1440 | Council laws need a referendum? I thought the Council can pass a revision themselves? | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 21:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: We're an entity under the HiFo bylaws now, though. | 21:56 |
| thedead1440 | in this case you don't even need a revision; his absence is reason enough for him to be removed from his position for unsatisfactory conduct | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | docscrutinizer05: agreed. But there are co-linked items in the bylaws. | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that never been accepted by either council or a referendum | 21:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | thedead1440: Best rule of thumb: suppose every fix to something wrong in how the council runs, needs a referendum, lol. | 21:57 |
| thedead1440 | lol | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | It's true... | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | And that's frankly, a good safeguard. | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | separation of powers | 21:58 |
| Woody14619 | You think that's rough, you should see what it takes to change the bylaws... | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (I ranted on it in tmo recently) | 21:58 |
| Woody14619 | You could pass an ammendment in most countries quicker than updating those. :P | 21:59 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: You have a much more optimistic view of world politics than me. | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, warfare, would you like a chat with me, or could I go shoot me in the forehead now? | 21:59 |
| qwazix | btw if there's something you'd like me to do speak up | 21:59 |
| Woody14619 | But yes, holding a referendum to bring Council rules to meet current Board Bylaws really should happen soon. | 22:00 |
| MentalistTraceur | Oh, right, I believe we are definitely officially done with meeting as of (some time ago). | 22:00 |
| thedead1440 | Just to confirm; there is no Council provision for unsatisfactory conduct or acute absenteeism? I'm not here doing a hatchet job but since we are at a fresh beginning I would wish things are set more clearly for the future | 22:00 |
| qwazix | I'm following despite my silence | 22:00 |
| MentalistTraceur | thedead1440: Off the top of my head, that is correct. | 22:00 |
| Woody14619 | thedead: In Council rules, no. In Board bylaws, yes. But as the Council as not yet updated it's rules to meet Board bylaws, the ultimate answer is" Not yet. | 22:01 |
| thedead1440 | ok then IMO the remaining of your'll should have in the minutes or somewhere note that there is no such provision and his absenteeism is not condoned to act as a safeguard against setting precedents | 22:02 |
| MentalistTraceur | I thought the Council's rules were automatically updated to whatever HiFo's bylaws said our rules were, when community accepted the creation of HiFo. | 22:02 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: no idea, depending on what happens yes BTC => hifo => tmo | 22:02 |
| thedead1440 | s/note/a note/ | 22:02 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Shrug* | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st: sounds reasonable. :) | 22:02 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: a yes on I take action if you guys agree... | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: ivan suspected you know a bit about midgard? so would you volunteer as maintainer (not sysop) for garage? | 22:03 |
| Woody14619 | MT: No. Again, Council has no direct hit on Board, Board has no direct hit on Council. | 22:03 |
| Woody14619 | I would be happy to serve in whatever capacity I can. | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good, application accepted :-D | 22:03 |
| chem|st | oh and after several people turning on tmo administration, I'd like to have an agreement written somewhere! | 22:04 |
| chem|st | so got to go, have people coming over for dinner | 22:04 |
| Woody14619 | :) | 22:04 |
| thedead1440 | chem|st: don't do that :D A written agreement is only worth the paper its written on if the Council didn't approve it via a referendum | 22:05 |
| kerio | can't we just ask neil to step down from council? | 22:05 |
| thedead1440 | kerio: he should be asked to do so indeed if he's contactable | 22:05 |
| Woody14619 | kerio: they could, and I susspect he would if asked, based on the last cycle. | 22:05 |
| Woody14619 | But that's their call. | 22:06 |
| qwazix | what do rules say happens if he steps down? | 22:06 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix: since Council hasn't adopted Board's rules practically nothing changes | 22:07 |
| Woody14619 | Sorry.. been a long month. We have... 5 Council right now? | 22:07 |
| Woody14619 | So nothing. | 22:07 |
| qwazix | okay | 22:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | See, I fail to see how that makes sense, since Council first existed as an entity set up by Nokia, and I would presume since Nokia was all "meh, don't care about this community anymore", that "Council" entity was basically "migrated" under HiFo's "maintenance", hence HiFo's bylaws mentioning council. The only way it makes sense for us to not have any bearing on each other is if we're still technically the Nokia-made c | 22:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | ... mentioned in HiFo bylaws (but then logically HiFo had a duty to create that council) | 22:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | Knowing my perl scripts, that first line got cut off... | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I don't mind Neil being council or not. when he steps down he's out, when he doesn't he might eventually start getting productive | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm reluctant to blame anybody for not doing something | 22:08 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05: +1 | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | esp when not knowing nuttin about the reasons | 22:08 |
| Woody14619 | MT: I'm inclined to agree. But reality is, if you just accept it without a referendum, there will be a huge storm over it... | 22:08 |
| chem|st | thedead1440: I want something written by current hifo and current council signed, maybe exactly what was talked! | 22:08 |
| chem|st | I read the log later! | 22:08 |
| kerio | MentalistTraceur: goddammit, just push "enter" every once in a while | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you might notice all of a sudden I vanish tomorrow, and nobody knows what's up | 22:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | "The only way it makes sense for us to not have any bearing on each other is if we're still technically the Nokia-made council, as opposed to the Council mentioned in HiFo..." | 22:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | That should cover what got cut off. | 22:09 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: bus? | 22:09 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st: I understand why you want that, but frankly, the group complaining is the same mini-clique that's been whining about it for a couple months now. | 22:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: I just figure the referendum that accepted the creation of Board already implicity accepted the above. | 22:09 |
| Woody14619 | MT: See, that's part of it. Technically, right now, the Council is both. | 22:10 |
| thedead1440 | chem|st: the problem is the current shitstorm would worsen by 10x if a referendum didn't go thru for something in writing. | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: council never been a spawn of nokia | 22:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | kerio: Damn it I did not spend all of this morning compiling irssi with perl support to just return to the ways of primitive manual line splitting. :) | 22:10 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur: what referendum, what did I miss? | 22:10 |
| Woody14619 | It's first 3 months was before HiFo. I went to great pains to make sure the time lines lined up, so the results would fit under both structures. | 22:10 |
| Woody14619 | To fully transition, Council should now hold a referendum to update it's rules to match the Foundation Council, in rule and name. | 22:11 |
| Woody14619 | The Board can't force it to, nor can it chagne it's own existing rules without a referendum (so say the rules). | 22:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: See, from what I recall (from what I read, I wasn't in community back then) it was Nokia that reached out to the community and said "you guys form a council, and we'll listen to them a bit more than we do the lot of you in general". | 22:12 |
| qwazix | Woody14619: is that necessary to be donr now? | 22:12 |
| qwazix | *done | 22:12 |
| thedead1440 | A referendum could be run maybe once everything is properly migrated; it seems very odd to do something when resources are down | 22:12 |
| Woody14619 | no. But it really should happen before the next election cycle IMHO. | 22:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, agenda for next meeting: | 22:12 |
| Woody14619 | thedead1440: semi-agreed. But I think doing so would be nice to make sure we have everything we need to do an election. | 22:13 |
| MentalistTraceur | ##Discuss this whole referendum thing with updating council to HiFo rules or whatever. | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: I'd seem to recall it been community members like Jaffa and generalantilles who came up with that council | 22:13 |
| thedead1440 | Woody14619: maybe concurrent with next election? | 22:13 |
| Woody14619 | Right now, I'm not convinced we got everything we need to do that. And to regen some of it may require help from people that we can still call on now (like Reggie) that may fade away before April. | 22:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | ^-- I'd like to discuss that next meeting, less so right now. I have about 2.75 hours right now to write up meeting minutes. | 22:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | I want to force myself to do them now so that I don't allow myself to slip into the procrastination that nuked the last month or so of meeting minutes. | 22:14 |
| Woody14619 | Agreed. | 22:15 |
| Woody14619 | If you want, I can even write up the proposal and an intro note on what it is and why it needs to be done. | 22:15 |
| Woody14619 | The question of when is ultimatly up to Council. | 22:16 |
| qwazix | Woody14619: please do write up something | 22:16 |
| Woody14619 | As I recall this was the last item on the "to do" list we handed off to the new Council. Low priority, given the state of things at the time. (And still kind of is, for the same reasons.) | 22:17 |
| * qwazix hopes to keep Woody busy enough to not respond to tmo flamage | 22:17 | |
| * Woody14619 laughs. | 22:17 | |
| * Woody14619 sniffs: "What's that smell? Is something on fire!?" | 22:17 | |
| * thedead1440 prepares to close the thread if flame-war carries on :D | 22:17 | |
| Woody14619 | Meh... Not sure that's the best idea. It was actually starting to turn productive until a certain someone showed up and commented again. :P | 22:18 |
| kerio | Woody14619: who? the one with the E and the _? | 22:18 |
| thedead1440 | back to topic people; agenda for next meeting please :p | 22:19 |
| Woody14619 | I would like to see (as would chem|st from the sounds of it) something formally proposed though. | 22:19 |
| * Woody14619 specificly does not reply to kerio. :) | 22:19 | |
| thedead1440 | Woody14619: like its said don't throw the baby out of the bathwater; anything formal requires Community's approval via referendum so don't isolate more people just because of a few | 22:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | thedead1440: We actually voted about a month ago that we would try to publish council agenda for next meeting a few days before meeting... like the meeting minutes though, I utterly failed to keep up with it for the last month. | 22:20 |
| thedead1440 | s/baby out of/baby with/ | 22:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | thedead1440: Why would you want a baby in perfectly good bathwater? I thought how you spelled it originally was fine. | 22:21 |
| * Woody14619 loves phrases like that. | 22:21 | |
| kerio | hahahah, who tagged that thread "bore vs vomit"? | 22:22 |
| kerio | genius | 22:22 |
| Woody14619 | Once was in a rented house in France with friends, and one of the women with us declared she was ruller of the porch. | 22:22 |
| Woody14619 | One of the French people replied "Yes, you have many people on your porch!" And all the French people broke up laughing... | 22:23 |
| Woody14619 | Apparently that's a regional way of saying a woman has... "huge tracts of land" as it were. | 22:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | Personally I've always had a problem with tags to threads like that. Makes the tags completely useless for meaningful searching. (granted everyone uses power search anyway) | 22:23 |
| thedead1440 | MentalistTraceur: see the tag cloud of TMO; not even 5 are useful | 22:24 |
| * Woody14619 liked the original tags better: "dont feed, the trolls" | 22:25 | |
| qwazix | maybe community subforum shouldn't have tags | 22:25 |
| thedead1440 | Woody14619: wrong that was in the other thread of resources status | 22:25 |
| Woody14619 | K, I'll write up the proposal & note. | 22:25 |
| * Woody14619 stands corrected. :) | 22:26 | |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, I'll keep this irc channel open, but I will go start writing up meeting minutes. | 22:26 |
| Woody14619 | It's all the same drama by the same source, so really.. it all blurs into one thing in my mind. :P | 22:26 |
| thedead1440 | well it stopped at that place at least (which is arguable more important) :D | 22:27 |
| Woody14619 | .oO(If it looks like poo, and smell like poo, it goes into the pile of...) | 22:27 |
| kerio | hold on, did we hit the meeting's heat death? | 22:28 |
| Woody14619 | K, am off... I my camera stopped moving, so clearly something broke. :P | 22:28 |
| * thedead1440 goes to bed too; good night/evening people | 22:29 | |
| * DocScrutinizer05 waves | 22:29 | |
| qwazix | bye | 22:32 |
| *** MartinK_N9__ has quit IRC | 23:06 | |
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