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| *** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "Council meetings every Friday @ 18:00 UTC | topics: see http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-April/005085.html | livelog at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/latest.log.html" | 18:21 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer05 | 18:21 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno when I seen last COBS meeting | 18:21 |
|---|---|---|
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| Pali | what happened with COBS? | 18:29 |
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| Woody14619 | COBS got eatten by Nokia exploding, AFAIK. | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi Woody14619 :-) | 19:59 |
| Woody14619 | X-Fade and Javispedro were working on it, and had it at about 90% just about the time all heck broke loose. | 19:59 |
| * Woody14619 waves | 19:59 | |
| qwazix | o/ | 20:00 |
| Woody14619 | Javis had work issues and had to bail, then X-Fade got pulled to do spindown on all Nokia projects... | 20:00 |
| kerio | COBS? | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, MT, ivgalvez? | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Niel? | 20:07 |
| qwazix | MT just sent a mail that he'll be a bit late | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so let's wait for him? | 20:09 |
| qwazix | yep, he said about 15min | 20:09 |
| qwazix | so 5-10 more min | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: could you spam the chan with a subject-post? | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | c&p | 20:14 |
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| qwazix | ~~~ MEETING AGENDA ~~~ | 20:14 |
| qwazix | 1. Introduction for our new sysops | 20:14 |
| qwazix | 2. fundraising | 20:14 |
| qwazix | a. Ovi account creation for HiFo and inclusion of tmo app for it | 20:14 |
| qwazix | b. Managing recurring donations | 20:14 |
| qwazix | c. Finding alt-routes for money | 20:14 |
| qwazix | 3. Updating wiki | 20:14 |
| qwazix | 4. Time schedule for further migration | 20:14 |
| qwazix | 5. rDNS for list.maemo.org to it, the response from ML about "delivery | 20:15 |
| qwazix | failed" looks quite odd (Joerg) | 20:15 |
| qwazix | 6. alternative mail addr for x-fade and ferenc too, since they also | 20:15 |
| qwazix | are "no relaying" on their @maemo.org mail addr (Joerg) | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm happy to request dealing with 5. and 6. first: we got it sorted this afternoon. everything fine | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | done :-) | 20:16 |
| kerio | :D | 20:16 |
| kerio | i've got a proposal for 2a and 2c | 20:16 |
| kerio | 2a: what the hell, nobody goes on ovi store | 20:17 |
| kerio | 2c: bitcoins have less fees, especially when transferring money cross-eu | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cross or trans | 20:17 |
| kerio | yes | 20:17 |
| kerio | although it's really a matter of moving the fees from the transfer itself to the conversion of bitcoins to and from real currencies | 20:18 |
| kerio | but hey, it's free to get a bitcoin address, so why not? | 20:18 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 twiddles thumbs | 20:19 | |
| qwazix | kerio, on the N9 everybody goes on ovi store, as there are no extras | 20:19 |
| qwazix | and there are millions of N9's out there most in the hands of people that never heard of maemo | 20:19 |
| Woody14619 | Point of order: Was there not something indicating that the OVI store was going away at some point for N9/N900? | 20:19 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, payment for apps for the N9 on china apparently has stopped | 20:19 |
| thedead1440 | IMO listing on Store is good but the same version should be available for free on the forums too; the Store version can then be considered the "donate" version | 20:20 |
| qwazix | thedead1440, that is the idea | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we should start... | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ | 20:20 |
| qwazix | I understand all the above, but with 1eur registration fee | 20:20 |
| Woody14619 | I'm thinking "the app" will probably be a simple repo installer and/or a link to TMO? | 20:20 |
| qwazix | even if we sell one app it's a profit | 20:21 |
| * Woody14619 nods. Someone in charge should start the meeting. :) | 20:21 | |
| qwazix | Woody14619, the app will be the tmo app from bibek | 20:21 |
| Woody14619 | Oh.. nice. :) | 20:21 |
| Woody14619 | Don't use it myself, but hear good things about it. | 20:21 |
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| qwazix | Yay! MT :) | 20:22 |
| mentalisttraceur | Hello all. Sorry I'm late. | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi everybody! :-) let me announce we managed to move everything of *.maemo.org to new infra during this week (except repo, autobuilder, drop which are still pending). Many thanks to everybody involved, particularly Eero and Bergie of Nemein, Reggie as our long time tmo admin, chem|st as our new tmo admin which I officially welcome here, as well as many others who helped to move and check and sort issues. Backup Project driven by | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440 and brkn gave us a safe fallback in case anything blew up, many thanks to them as well. Finally FIVE sysops approached council/me with offering their help in future maemo.org management: wirr, xes, jyrjyr, khm, marcdeop. Alas jyrjyr stepped back from direct involvement yesterday, but still has quite a bit to offer from which maemo.org could benefit. I tried to invite all sysops in spe to this meeting, alas it been a | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tad on short call for some of them. anyway for now we don't have any infra under our control yet, so we'll give them all a gentle start by just listening here, and we'll negotiate details in the next weeks | 20:23 |
| qwazix | holy wall of text! | 20:23 |
| jyrjyr | =) | 20:24 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: are the sysops going to be paid? | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's a detail to be decided on | 20:24 |
| Woody14619 | I'm betting, so long as it's well divided and though out, that something could be worked out to make it a tax write off for most (as donated time?) | 20:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: could you repost the agenda please? | 20:26 |
| qwebirc567519 | I just got dropped, damned mobile connection + web irc client. | 20:26 |
| qwazix | ~~~ MEETING AGENDA ~~~ | 20:26 |
| qwazix | 1. Introduction for our new sysops | 20:26 |
| qwazix | 2. fundraising | 20:26 |
| qwazix | a. Ovi account creation for HiFo and inclusion of tmo app for it | 20:26 |
| qwazix | b. Managing recurring donations | 20:26 |
| qwazix | c. Finding alt-routes for money | 20:26 |
| qwazix | 3. Updating wiki | 20:26 |
| qwazix | 4. Time schedule for further migration | 20:26 |
| qwebirc567519 | Last I got was the thing DocScrutinizer05 said right after I got on. | 20:27 |
| qwazix | 5. rDNS for list.maemo.org to it, the response from ML about "delivery | 20:27 |
| qwazix | failed" looks quite odd (Joerg) | 20:27 |
| qwazix | 6. alternative mail addr for x-fade and ferenc too, since they also | 20:27 |
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| qwazix | are "no relaying" on their @maemo.org mail addr (Joerg) | 20:27 |
| *** qwebirc567519 is now known as mentalisttraceur | 20:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | subjects 5. and 6. are moot, we fixed that this afternoon | 20:27 |
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| qwazix | mentalisttraceur, [20.27] <DocScrutinizer05> subjects 5. and 6. are moot, we fixed that this afternoon | 20:28 |
| qwazix | So, shall we start? | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thought we already did ;-) | 20:28 |
| mentalisttraceur | Yeah, starting we shall. If we need the formality of me going "start" | 20:29 |
| qwazix | Ok then, I take Doc's wall of text as introduction to our sysops | 20:29 |
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| kerio | mentalisttraceur: say #meetingstart or something | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | So if the sysops-in-spe want to say hello to introduce themselves, go ahead | 20:30 |
| mentalisttraceur | I nominate Kerio as the official IRC tag for meeting start/end sayer. | 20:30 |
| xes_ | hello there! sorry to be late, just a bad day at work (and not ended..) | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi xes_ | 20:31 |
| kerio | i declare the meeting already started a while ago, with the agenda | 20:31 |
| qwazix | As the the communications with sysops were mostly between me and Joerg, please, whoever present, do a short intro about yourselves | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no CV please ;-) | 20:32 |
| jyrjyr | ok, hi everyone. =) name is jyri, age 38 and i'm a entrepreneur with a long history in system administration / network security / hosting. although i drew back my application for the sys op position, i've still got something to offer regarding future hosting of the maemo.org site(s). | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh well, they're a tad shy, nothing bad with a sysop | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 20:33 |
| jyrjyr | =D | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jyrjyr: thanks and welcome! good to have you on board | 20:34 |
| jyrjyr | thanks, nice being here! =) | 20:34 |
| xes_ | i'm here to give some help (if i can) ....no much free time, but my job makes me work everyday with xen vm raid blades &co... if i can... i'm here | 20:34 |
| Pali | Woody14619, so COBS could be finished? Or is permanently dead? | 20:34 |
| qwazix | Thank you xes_, appreciate it | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xes_: great! We'll find a way for you to participate without permanent overload | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: please stay on agenda | 20:35 |
| qwazix | Pali, let's add COBS to the agenda so that we can discuss it later on. | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | khm: you're listening? :-) | 20:36 |
| qwazix | ~~~ appending COBS as number 7 on the agenda ~~~ | 20:36 |
| mentalisttraceur | khm is the other sysop applicant that sent us an email this week, right? | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 20:36 |
| xes_ | i'm feeling very impressed by the cv of khm... | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mentalisttraceur: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/latest.log.html#t2013-01-18T20:23:11 | 20:37 |
| qwazix | Fellow council members and maemo contributors, anything you'd like to ask our sysops? | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, I see we got not all of our future sysops here - as already mentioned it been on short notice | 20:38 |
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| kerio | i have a question | 20:39 |
| kerio | xes_: would you rather fight 100 duck-sized horses or one horse-sized duck? | 20:39 |
| qwebirc123740 | Hopefully no more drops. Someone PM me what I missed? (Last I got was xes_ saying he was impressed with khm's CV) | 20:39 |
| qwebirc123740 | (this is MentalistTraceur again) | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we'll just give them a heartly welcome and continue. I ask HiFo to check all of them so I can get approval for them on their sysop positions eventually | 20:39 |
| Sc0rpius | it seems that we are not receiving mails when a TMO thread is updated | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you are close to a kick | 20:40 |
| kerio | :( | 20:40 |
| qwazix | As this meeting has a pretty long agenda, I propose fixing a date for a special systems operation meeting where we start handing out responsibilities. | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mentalisttraceur: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/latest.log.html#t2013-01-18T20:23:11 | 20:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: I'll handle that | 20:41 |
| qwazix | ok | 20:41 |
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| qwazix | shall we move to number 2? | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MT: please put it on action points of minutes | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 20:41 |
| qwazix | Short intro | 20:42 |
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| qwazix | After the initial fundraiser done on tmo by DocScrutinizer, the gathering of funds has slowed down | 20:42 |
| qwazix | unless there's something I'm missing | 20:43 |
| mentalisttraceur | Action points? I'm not sure I know what you mean by that term. | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | i'm missing donations after 25.12. | 20:43 |
| qwazix | We need some additional means of funding apart from paypal | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mentalisttraceur: "ToDo:" | 20:43 |
| kerio | as in there were no donation after xmas, or as in there's no log of donations after xmas? | 20:43 |
| mentalisttraceur | Oh, gotcha. | 20:43 |
| qwazix | as some people do not like PayPal and many others do not have access to it | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: that's the question I'd ask ivgalvez if he was around | 20:44 |
| qwazix | One proposition is to add the forum reader app to ovi store | 20:44 |
| mentalisttraceur | (Speaking of, I've neglected meeting minutes for like a month now. Someone needs to give me a good kick in the arse about that every once in a while, it seems.) | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any ideas about the "price" of such app? | 20:45 |
| qwazix | The current maintainer of the app has agreed to this, and ovi store, due to extensive carrier billing support reaches many people who either do not have a credit card or cannot access paypal | 20:45 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 always feels in mood for giving kicks in the arse ;-P | 20:45 | |
| qwazix | Nokia charges 30% of the price in fees, which is a lot, but we can clearly state that this is a means for donating if nothing else is possible | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 20:46 |
| qwazix | My idea is to price it at 10€ | 20:46 |
| qwazix | With the fluctuations of the price Nokia is automatically doing by country | 20:46 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 runs to next average streetcorner thief and starts whining about evil nokia | 20:46 | |
| xes_ | ...to obtain more bucks the reader app should support also other forums to extend the number of potential users (it has already the modules..to be fixed, i think) | 20:47 |
| * thedead1440 wonders if HiFo can negotiate a better deal with Nokia for Store apps wrt cutting Nokia's charges to anything <30%... | 20:47 | |
| qwazix | we can expect 5€/sale after deducting the fees | 20:47 |
| qwazix | Some people will even buy it because they want to use it, or because they prefer ovi to downloading apps from the internet | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pondering to abuse a secondary private bank account and dedicate it to HiFo donations | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this would be Germany then | 20:48 |
| qwazix | thedead1440, I'd like HiFo to first open that account so that we can get going, and then try to negotiate anything better | 20:48 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: and then send the money to HiFo every once in a while? | 20:49 |
| qwazix | every day going by is lost income for that matter | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 20:49 |
| Woody14619 | Sounds like a good idea. I could also put out another plug on the FB fan page (another 7K people, only about 50% overlap with TMO). | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds good, Woody14619 | 20:49 |
| qwazix | The registration is a 5 minute job, and then restricted accounts can be created for developers to post apps on behalf of HiFo | 20:50 |
| kerio | qwazix: we could also accept donations via bitcoin, but i'm not entirely sure how easy it is to turn those into dollars, for a NFP | 20:50 |
| qwazix | we can start with the forum reader and add more apps as we go, until Nokia shuts ovi for N9 down | 20:50 |
| gregoa | DocScrutinizer05: a bank account in EUR-land would indeed by helpful IMO | 20:50 |
| gregoa | another idea might be to add Flattr buttons to the *.maemo.org pages | 20:50 |
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| qwazix | ovi for N900 is a lost cause as it requires the application to run without external dependencies, so most of the apps can't work | 20:50 |
| mtraceur | *Sigh* | 20:51 |
| Woody14619 | I did a promo bit there to MKWN the week the lead story was about HiFo and donating, with web links. So... Pushing an app would look different and/or still accomplish another round of hits I'd bet. | 20:51 |
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| qwazix | End of not-so-short intro. | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who's going to do what? | 20:52 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: Couldn't a version be compiled against the stock SDK (PR1.3) SDK? May be worth a request. | 20:52 |
| mtraceur | As I tried to say before disconnecting, might not have gone through, am I understanding right that this app remains open source and free in repos, just also going up in Ovi? | 20:52 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, it uses qtcomponents so it's more than difficult | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mtraceur: yep | 20:52 |
| qwazix | mtraceur, that is the idea | 20:52 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, as of who's doing what, the correct thing is that HiFo opens a Bank Account, registers an account with Nokia and gives council admin access | 20:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 suggests to get a 10bucks- and a 20- and 50bucks-version of same app | 20:53 | |
| mtraceur | Does Nokia even allow things that won't work with stock SDK on Ovi? | 20:53 |
| qwazix | council then gives restricter "upload only" access to select devs | 20:53 |
| Woody14619 | ah.. hm... Well... Maybe a simpler app can also be made (that has a links to the forums/wiki/etc) | 20:53 |
| qwazix | mtraceur, no, that's why we're talking N9 ovi | 20:54 |
| qwazix | N900 ovi doesn't have enough traffic anyway | 20:54 |
| Woody14619 | It doesn't now.. but some of those wanting to donate that have N900 w/o paypal, it may be the best option for them. | 20:54 |
| Woody14619 | This is more about providing an alternative payment method than delivering an app... | 20:55 |
| qwazix | I have sent an email to board with no reply about the matter | 20:55 |
| qwazix | so maybe we could just do away with the correct way of doing things, and one of us opens the Nokia Store account | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is council OK with me providing a bank account on Deutsche Bank? | 20:56 |
| qwazix | and then transfer funds to HiFo once in a while | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 20:56 |
| qwazix | Ok from me | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | minus my expense for the accoint | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd use paypal fro transfer | 20:56 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, I agree with that, let's find a volunteer to build a simple app for N900 | 20:56 |
| qwazix | Should be less than three hours work including the artwork | 20:57 |
| mtraceur | I'm not sure I want any personal accounts associated with HiFo dealings. How much effort would it take for HiFo to use its own? | 20:57 |
| mtraceur | Or start another if its current one doesn't work? | 20:57 |
| qwazix | action item: find a volunteer to do a simple app for stock PR1.3 N900 app for inclusion in ovi | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they are in USA, not exactly simple to get *any* bank account in EU | 20:57 |
| qwazix | mtraceur, AFAIK even now HiFo is using Cosimo's personal account | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you know, you have to open your account by giving your ID data toprove you're an EU resident | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, cosimo is also EU resident, no? | 20:59 |
| qwazix | not only id, bills etc | 20:59 |
| mtraceur | Can bank accounts associated with Ovi be changed eventually? | 20:59 |
| Woody14619 | I believe Cosimo is in the process of setting up a US account with the foundations business ID. | 20:59 |
| qwazix | Yes (99%) I can confirm this in a minute | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | changed? how? | 20:59 |
| mtraceur | Don't American devs use Ovi with their American accounts? | 21:00 |
| mtraceur | DocScrutinizer05: as in if we assign it to send money to your account now, but then can we reassign it to go to a hifo account later once that's set up? | 21:00 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 tips left fingertips onto right palm: "T" | 21:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bbiab | 21:01 |
| qwazix | Bank details can be changed at any time, confirmed | 21:01 |
| gregoa | was DocScrutinizer05's account meant for the ovi app? I understood it as an independent proposal to collect donations via bank transfers from within EUR-land? | 21:02 |
| qwazix | It is even possible that bank details can be entered at a later time and not during registration | 21:02 |
| mtraceur | Okay. Then I don't mind using DocScrutinizer05's account for this if it's a temporary measure. | 21:02 |
| mtraceur | Oh. I might've missed that. I thought he was offering for Ovi. | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gregoa: correct | 21:03 |
| qwazix | mtraceur, thanks, we can speed up this way until HiFo sorts the legalese | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however... (/me sips his frozen Vodka)... I'd prefer to use Cosimo's account | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if he's EU based like me | 21:04 |
| qwazix | Let's split the two for now | 21:04 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, do you agree to open up a HiFo Nokia Store account, and if necessary provide your bank account until HiFo sorts out | 21:05 |
| qwazix | ? | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | somebody got direct contact to Cosimo? | 21:05 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, Cosimo is using his paypal account for HiFo, I haven't seen any bank account published | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I'd agree to use my bank account if Cosimo refuses to use his (after all he's HiFo cashier) | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not that fond of managing an Ovi account | 21:06 |
| qwazix | There's not much to do, and you can always create more users to co-manage it | 21:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then you can do that too, no? ;-) | 21:07 |
| qwazix | I can do it, but in case it asks for bank account I'll have to ask you | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's maybe even the better idea, have management of such account splitted, one manager plus one bank account owner, so both can control the other | 21:08 |
| qwazix | Ok then, I'll open the Ovi account and ask for bank account info. AFAIK it doesn't ask for sensitive info | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'd know how much went to my account | 21:09 |
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| *** mentalisttraceur has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:09 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bank account data is not sensitive info of first category | 21:09 |
| qwazix | Mails with the money transferred will go to HiFo or council anyway | 21:09 |
| *** xes has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:10 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll forward via paypal and publish to HiFo and council via mail to the ML | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so everybody can compare | 21:10 |
| xes | here again... | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi xes :-d | 21:10 |
| mentalisttraceur | ... maybe constant pinging of google will force tmobile to not screw this connection to the point of the IRC client disconnecting... | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 21:11 |
| qwazix | Action item: I'll send an ultimatum mail to HiFo, that unless an ovi account is opened in the next week I'll open one with DocScrutinizer's account | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ack | 21:11 |
| qwazix | Next point: recurring donations | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sub-subject: will we publish that bank account data for those who want to donate directly via money transfer in EU? | 21:12 |
| qwazix | yes sorry, forgot that | 21:12 |
| mentalisttraceur | qwazix - idk if it needs to be an 'ultimatum' like that, but sure. | 21:12 |
| qwazix | I'll be polite, I promise | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 21:13 |
| gregoa | publishing the account data would make transfers definitively easier :) | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll probably publish a URL pointing to a text file which has the data | 21:13 |
| qwazix | ok with me, mentalisttraceur? ^^^ | 21:13 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 scrolls up to read agenda | 21:14 | |
| mentalisttraceur | Maybe also put it on the wiki somewhere? | 21:15 |
| mentalisttraceur | Or the HiFo site? | 21:15 |
| Woody14619 | away... | 21:15 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 waves to Woody14619 | 21:15 | |
| mentalisttraceur | But either way, sure @ url to txt file. | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good handover: wiki | 21:15 |
| mentalisttraceur | (Walking around inside cement building, might lose signal.) | 21:15 |
| qwazix | Let's skip the recurring donations thing because there's nothing we can do about it | 21:15 |
| qwazix | Any other ideas for income? | 21:16 |
| gregoa | has anyone an opinion on the idea of adding Flattr to the mix? | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 21:16 |
| qwazix | wtf Flattr? | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gregoa: draft a proposal please | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since ^^^ qwazix | 21:16 |
| gregoa | fltarr.com. online micro-payment. | 21:16 |
| gregoa | flattr.com ofc | 21:16 |
| * qwazix is more confused than before | 21:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could you elaborate how it works | 21:17 |
| gregoa | open an account there, add buttons to webpages. flattr-users can then "flattr" you, i.e. transfer amount from the pre-paid funds to the project | 21:17 |
| mentalisttraceur | By the way, everytime I lose connection I have to refresh page, so I lose all the history. So I'm useless for agenda-order remembering. | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no worries | 21:18 |
| qwazix | gregoa, and how do you actually pay? | 21:18 |
| gregoa | no idea how many n900 users us flattr bit even if there are just a few it doesn't cost anything and might bring some euros | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gregoa: I don't see why we couldn't do that | 21:18 |
| gregoa | flattr also has subscriptions, i.e. recurring payments every month | 21:19 |
| qwazix | that's good | 21:19 |
| gregoa | qwazix: the user clicks on the button, signs in with their flattr account and click confirm. the money is deducted from their pre-paid funds there (which can be charged via credit card) | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gregoa: could you cooperate with council (probably on IRC or via mail) and help creating such flattr account etc? | 21:20 |
| qwazix | gregoa, thanks | 21:20 |
| qwazix | Many open source causes also have pledgie | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gregoa: maybe even completely create the whole thing and then hand it over to council/HiFo? | 21:21 |
| qwazix | No idea how it works, but I see the banner | 21:21 |
| gregoa | DocScrutinizer05: sure, if there are questions I'm happy to help. but it needs to be done by someone with a HiFo bank acocunt/credit card, and someone needs to add the HTML/javascript for the buttons on *.m.o | 21:21 |
| kerio | HiFo or council could also create a mtgox account, to accept bitcoins | 21:21 |
| khm | DocScrutinizer05: sorry, got pulled into a meeting at work. | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gregoa: the latter we can manage | 21:21 |
| gregoa | DocScrutinizer05: and the first one is "create an account in 30 seconds" :) | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | khm: don't worry, you didn't miss anything relevant yet | 21:22 |
| gregoa | DocScrutinizer05: and ask them if maemo.org qualifies for the non-profit programme, which means less or no fees (usually they take 10%) | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm, I think qwazix will be interested to do this | 21:22 |
| qwazix | I can do that yes | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, are we done with subj #2? | 21:23 |
| khm | flattr is some kind of pyramid scheme | 21:23 |
| * qwazix goes to write down some things before his buffer overflows | 21:23 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: setting tags in irclog is a convenient method | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ###actionpoint: create flattr account -> qwazix | 21:24 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, I'll do with google tasks for now | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | subj #3: wiki edits | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | our wiki is terribly out of date, due to long time r/o | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | several council pages need update to the current state of things | 21:26 |
| mentalisttraceur | Am I still connected? | 21:27 |
| qwazix | mentalisttraceur, I see you | 21:27 |
| mentalisttraceur | (Yes I am) | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | khm: (we're offering alternative ways to donate, for those who don't like flattr. anyway we might need to put emphasis on that point you raised. qwazix will investigate) | 21:27 |
| qwazix | ack | 21:28 |
| mentalisttraceur | (If I see the message make it to main screen, I know it's not dropped me yet; but thanks qwazix.) | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who's volunteering to update wiki's council pages? | 21:28 |
| gregoa | (as a PS: https://flattr.com/support/charityaccount -> "Flattr Non-profit, Charity & No-fee Accounts) | 21:28 |
| mentalisttraceur | Is it just me or is qwazix getting most of the work lol? | 21:29 |
| mentalisttraceur | I can do wiki. | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | great, I hoped you'd say this :-D | 21:29 |
| qwazix | "Proof that you are a registered charity/non-profit" | 21:29 |
| qwazix | do we have that? | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err NFP maybe | 21:29 |
| khm | gregoa: *users* can't get no-fee accounts. | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | charity for sure not | 21:30 |
| qwazix | I'll ask Rob | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good | 21:30 |
| gregoa | khm: the account should be for maemo/HiFo anyway | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so we already are done with #3 ? | 21:30 |
| qwazix | These will normally not get a no-fee account - Churches, Political parties, Sports, Culture, Events, Exhibitions, *Software.* | 21:30 |
| mentalisttraceur | We can also be a church and political party, really... | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | will NOT get... | 21:31 |
| mentalisttraceur | Church of FOSS. FOSS Party. :P | 21:31 |
| khm | qwazix: it also says "Any registered non-profit or charity can get these accounts." | 21:31 |
| qwazix | yes, that's why I posted it | 21:31 |
| gregoa | I'd propose to just ask them ... | 21:32 |
| khm | I think software projects who are not offical NFPs are SOL | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can you guys sort that later? | 21:32 |
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| qwazix | khm that sentence is not under "no-fee" account | 21:32 |
| qwazix | just an account that shows you are a non-profit | 21:33 |
| khm | ah, I see | 21:33 |
| qwazix | yes, ok let's move on | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #3 --- done | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right, mentalisttraceur? | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ping me if you need links to the pages that need edit, I might know a few of them | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and we need "pictures" of council noses | 21:34 |
| mentalisttraceur | Book Of FOSS; Chapter Linux, 2:13 - And thus spake Linus, let there be a free kernel, and lo, a free kernel there was, and it had source that was of the open variety, and it was good. | 21:34 |
| mentalisttraceur | Anyway, yeah will do DocScrutinizer05. Also, noses, wait what? | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mentalisttraceur: so we could jump to #4 | 21:35 |
| qwazix | wait | 21:35 |
| qwazix | there's a page in tmo highlighting obsolete wiki pages | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even better | 21:35 |
| qwazix | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88355 | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #4. Time schedule for further migration | 21:36 |
| qwazix | (yay, new tmo for me too :) ) | 21:36 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: It should list itself, as it is also out of date. ;) | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err qwazix, that's not exactly about council-related wiki pages, no? | 21:37 |
| * qwazix crashed: infinite loop | 21:37 | |
| mentalisttraceur | Time schedule: Now. Motion resolved. #5? /jk | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #4. Time schedule for further migration | 21:38 |
| mentalisttraceur | What still needs to be moved? | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we need the "rx300" at least 2 weeks before everything drops on our feet payment wise, so we can make familiar with sysop tasks on those, get resource requirement statistics, prepare selling them off as soon as possible etc | 21:39 |
| mentalisttraceur | As I understood it all of *m.o was now with Nemein? Or is this the NEXT migration? | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this would mean mid of February | 21:39 |
| mentalisttraceur | (To cheaper and more permanent hosting?) | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the plan so far is: Nemein right now has everything on xen-grid VMs | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's interim | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nemein gets the "RX300" irons | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nemein moves the VM to those servers | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or we need to set up those VMs there, if Nemein refuses to do that | 21:41 |
| mentalisttraceur | K, so this is time schedule for move from interim->permanent. (I thought due to the wording that further Nokia->interim was meant) | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nemein provides the VM disk images and we start the 'move' from xen-grid to our own hardware | 21:41 |
| qwazix | We need to decide if we sell first | 21:42 |
| *** reggie_ has quit IRC | 21:42 | |
| qwazix | No point in moving to the iron if we're gonna sell it | 21:42 |
| kerio | will nemein buy the rx300s back? | 21:42 |
| kerio | or do we need to look for a different buyer? | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eventually Nemein drops the whole bunch of rocks on our feet (they nevertheless will help by "knowledge transfer) and we need to stand on our own feet | 21:42 |
| qwazix | Also the latest thing mashiara proposed was not RX300 but some kind of blade servers fitting both into 2U | 21:42 |
| mentalisttraceur | Doesn't jyri's latest offer have to do with this? (I don't have the e-mail at hand) | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why ticks around "RX300" | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mentalisttraceur: yes | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we need to find best offer to sell that heavy iron | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jyrjyr is interested | 21:44 |
| jyrjyr | yep | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: sure, probably moving directly from xen-grid VM to our own new server hosting was the best alternative | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | by that time, we need the help of all our sysop-volunteers we can get | 21:45 |
| kerio | will we keep the hosting on nemein? | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | most definitely not, though they haven't sent a quotation for that option | 21:46 |
| xes | one xen grid is very different from 2 single servers... probably there will be issues with the storage | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right now it's 95% probable that we move to Hetzner | 21:46 |
| jyrjyr | part of my offer is, i can provide you with hosting services after buying the hardware | 21:46 |
| jyrjyr | yep | 21:46 |
| kerio | neat, so we *could* keep our own hardware? | 21:47 |
| jyrjyr | as a technical note, in my opinion the number of virtual machines could be reduced significantly by some careful planning | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: nope we wont, own hardware creates own service needs | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jyrjyr: that's already been decided | 21:48 |
| jyrjyr | ok | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we will consolidate as soon as we got the manpower for that | 21:48 |
| jyrjyr | great | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nemein already did a great job on consolidation | 21:48 |
| jyrjyr | yeps | 21:49 |
| jyrjyr | kerio, if you refer to what i said, then in a way yes - the site would be running on the same hardware although i would be buying the hw from hf and providing the maintenance. these are separate issues though; i'm interested in the hardware whether or not you're interested in being hosted there. | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what we need now is somebody taking responsibility in planning the technical details of the lots of work we face during the next 4 weeks | 21:50 |
| jyrjyr | the work being planning the consolidation and further steps? | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest we are discussing this in a separate circle during the next week, where we will invite those who can contribute | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jyrjyr: yes | 21:51 |
| jyrjyr | sounds good | 21:51 |
| Woody14619 | As noted before, I'm happy to throw time at some of the system infra stuff. I'm reasonably informed about midguard and some of the underlying stuff running the base site. (Voting machine, wiki infra, etc) | 21:51 |
| jyrjyr | yep | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: excellent | 21:52 |
| jyrjyr | great! | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: be our guest then on that meeting to be scheduled | 21:52 |
| Woody14619 | will be happy to. | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we need to get in contact with HiFo to finally get some grunting from them about what they are willing to do regarding the irons | 21:53 |
| Woody14619 | fyi: my rr.com account is going away. For now, my primary should be my current nick at yahoo. | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: please ping me when I maybe forget about inviting you | 21:53 |
| mentalisttraceur | Seems like something we should do sooner than later (get in touch with HiFo). After all, they hold the legal power in the organization. | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also this is an explicit invitation to our new sysops to join | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please mail council CC joerg@o.o subj: migration meeting. This way I won't miss any of you | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mentalisttraceur: absolutely | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | quite unfortunate ivgalvez is missing today | 21:55 |
| mentalisttraceur | Also, I would be interested in sitting along for the aforementioned meeting. Not sure how much I could contribute, but it's not like I'm a newb when it comes to linux and stuff, and just in general, I'd like to read what's said. | 21:56 |
| Woody14619 | Is he still recovering? (Ivan) | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mentalisttraceur: you're council, you're supposed to join anyway ;-D | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not mandatory, but... | 21:56 |
| mentalisttraceur | Ah, gotcha. | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: he should be well again | 21:57 |
| khm | DocScrutinizer05: I get bounce notifications from the council@ address. | 21:58 |
| mentalisttraceur | Then I'll gladly be there. Woody14619: I thought he recovered, if you mean the illness he had recently, I think this is a separate thing. (Or a resugrance of that, I guess...) | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now I'm basicall ythru with my tour de force, and probably i'm afk in 5min | 21:58 |
| mentalisttraceur | Regarding meeting agenda items 5 & 6; those were declared moot, right? Because they were about mailing list issues, and those are supposed to be solved now? | 21:59 |
| mentalisttraceur | Though khm just said the council address is still not working apparently? | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: next MWKN: we got 1st step of migration accomplished 90%, major issue: repository (due to massive load from ~40,000 N900 trying to update) | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mentalisttraceur: (5&6) yep, moot | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, still not working?? | 22:01 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, only 40.000? | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | CC joerg AT openmoko DOT org on any mail to council please | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: yep, only 40k | 22:01 |
| xes | only... | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | according to x-fade | 22:02 |
| qwazix | where are the others? Why aren't they dirt cheap to buy? | 22:02 |
| mentalisttraceur | Repo issue presumably not helped I'd bet by the fact that the default auto-update-check time is like 24hrs. (I've set mine to like, some amount of months; else device crawled to a halt or wasted mobile internet, or both) | 22:02 |
| qwazix | Are they gathering dust in drawers? | 22:02 |
| kerio | qwazix: they kinda are | 22:02 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: how did he check? | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: akamai statistics | 22:02 |
| kerio | for what? extras or mr0/apps? | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | X-Fade has secret sources of wisdom ;-) | 22:03 |
| qwazix | Either maemo.org/downloads or x-fade is wrong... | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, 24 * 60 * 60 / 40000 =~0.5 | 22:04 |
| mentalisttraceur | qwazix: if you're talking about download stats, don't those count each redownload and upgrade as a new dl? | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so one device running update every other second | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't kill us, *usually* | 22:05 |
| qwazix | mentalisttraceur, even like that | 22:05 |
| qwazix | that should mean that "every" N900 user has downloaded each app 4 times... | 22:05 |
| xes | usually...inside a xen grid with a separate storage.. | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: yes, sure | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the current setup is interim anyway | 22:06 |
| qwazix | bb-power 251k downloads. Maemeemo theme a pretty new package, 20k downloads | 22:06 |
| mentalisttraceur | qwazix, well, how many updates have we had, for, say, busybox-power? 20-30? | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please, we don't need download statistics here, since those don't mean a thing | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | auto-updates != downloads | 22:07 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer05: we need some detailed specs to evealuate if there are enough money to buy what we need | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio mentioned not even the file list gets downloaded when the "tag" hasn't changed | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: we don't buy anyrhing, that's the nice thing in it | 22:08 |
| kerio | yeah, it's a matter of checking the last-changed http header | 22:08 |
| kerio | or something | 22:08 |
| mentalisttraceur | DocScrutinizer05: I think he mentions downloads because he's using that amount to try to gauge hnow many N900's there are. Also folks, my battery's low, I'm gonna head from where I am to home. Which means I'll be less active, but hopefully will last idling until then. | 22:08 |
| kerio | you can test it, run apt-get update twice | 22:08 |
| kerio | notice how much is downloaded the second time | 22:08 |
| kerio | twice in a row, i mean | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mentalisttraceur: nope, that been about daily updates | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll call it a day - think today I *really* earned it | 22:09 |
| jyrjyr | =) | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so... any more questions to me, or am I allowed to wave and wander off? | 22:11 |
| Woody14619 | mail sent DocScrutinizer05 | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-9 | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ) | 22:11 |
| mentalisttraceur | Agreed. | 22:11 |
| mentalisttraceur | Any objections to meeting being officially done? | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks to everybody for joining this very important meeting, CYA next days | 22:11 |
| Woody14619 | may be off as well, work is becoming distracting. ;) Thanks all. Amazing we've pulled this all off... | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 22:12 |
| Woody14619 | Now just to keep it afloat. :) Night all! | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mentalisttraceur: shoot it down! | 22:12 |
| mentalisttraceur | Okay, meeting officially over. | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 22:13 |
| qwazix | \o | 22:13 |
| mentalisttraceur | Good work everyone. Espcially those who do things, unlike me where I just join IRC and send emails. | 22:13 |
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| Woody14619 | Will return Monday, noonish EST. | 22:13 |
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| xes | bye! | 22:14 |
| * mentalisttraceur waves | 22:17 | |
| mentalisttraceur | I'll be disconnecting now too. Might be back on later to bug more knowledgeable people with technical questions. | 22:17 |
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