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| ivgalvez | MentalistTraceur hi | 19:57 |
|---|---|---|
| MentalistTraceur | Greetings everyone. Did I get the time correctly? 18 UTC = 1 EST, right? | 19:58 |
| ivgalvez | right | 19:58 |
| ivgalvez | I didn't know if you were receiving emails | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi MentalistTraceur! Fine to finally see you around! :-) | 19:59 |
| qwazix | hi all, | 19:59 |
| MentalistTraceur | I have been (receiving emails). Haven't had a chance to reply so far. | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, relying isn't that easy yet. My mail setup still is buggy as hell | 20:00 |
| ivgalvez | nice | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | replying* | 20:00 |
| MentalistTraceur | Fyi I'm connected through an N900, and since my hands are cold from being outside for a while, so my thumb-typing speed is a bit slower than ideal. | 20:01 |
| MentalistTraceur | Thus my replies might be a tad slow. | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | X-Fade: council crew should get added to accesslist | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fyi I'm not available for long today, and may have afk-times in between as well. sorry for that | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: niel? | 20:02 |
| ivgalvez | here | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Niel | 20:03 |
| ivgalvez | apart from chairman election, do you have any items to add to the agenda? | 20:03 |
| qwazix | We have a problem with one of the CC N950's | 20:04 |
| *** ivgalvez has quit IRC | 20:04 | |
| qwazix | and I'd like to be able to forward it to the nokia re | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody promised some introductory letter, and we should send a formal 'hello community' to tmo and ML | 20:04 |
| qwazix | other than that, no | 20:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | I have none to add to the agenda. Regarding joerg's suggestion that I be council chairman: I don't mind, though someone would have to explain to me how to do the meeting minutes (how to publish them through council blog, mainly). | 20:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | That said, if anyone else wants the position, I would be happy to let them have it. | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretty happy with you doing chair, and I'm sure ivgalvez (who has just vamished) will explain details to you | 20:06 |
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| ivgalvez | here again | 20:06 |
| ivgalvez | gasp | 20:07 |
| qwazix | Me too, and I believe your writing skills will be useful in that position too. | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so I guess that's been the quickest most painless chairman election ever ;-D | 20:07 |
| ivgalvez | MentalistTraceur: I think it's unanimous | 20:07 |
| ivgalvez | what do I have to explain? | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-11-16 19:05:03] <MentalistTraceur> I have none to add to the agenda. Regarding joerg's suggestion that I be council chairman: I don't mind, though someone would have to explain to me how to do the meeting minutes (how to publish them through council blog, mainly). | 20:08 |
| ivgalvez | ok | 20:08 |
| qwazix | Also, ivgalvez are there any news from the board front? | 20:08 |
| ivgalvez | here's how we have been working with Woody: | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who's leading meeting today? | 20:09 |
| ivgalvez | he oficially starts the meeting | 20:09 |
| ivgalvez | and pastes the agenda if something previosly has been discussed | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | are we waiting for NielDK? | 20:10 |
| ivgalvez | then he conducts the meeting anouncing change from one topic to another as we go in advance | 20:10 |
| ivgalvez | and finally declares finalization of the meeting | 20:11 |
| ivgalvez | DocScrutinizer05: just a minute, so I can finish the explanation | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 20:11 |
| ivgalvez | after the meeting he sends minutes for review to all Council members | 20:11 |
| ivgalvez | and once accepted, you can publish them at Council's blog | 20:12 |
| ivgalvez | this creates a new TMO thread (not always) and send the message to ml | 20:12 |
| ivgalvez | when chairman cannot attend meeting | 20:13 |
| ivgalvez | someone else takes the responsibility for conducting the meeting | 20:13 |
| ivgalvez | any questions? | 20:13 |
| MentalistTraceur | So, to clarify, would conversation preceding the formal start, like this discussion/explanation, be included in the minutes? | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually not | 20:14 |
| ivgalvez | no, only the formal topics would be in minutes (but the conversation is in logs anyway) | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though that's in your discretion, and matter to common sense | 20:14 |
| ivgalvez | would you like to start it officially MentalistTraceur? | 20:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | Also, how do you post to the council blog? Is there instructions somewhere I've missed? | 20:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | Sure, right after this is answered. | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc there's a best prctice to use bot commands (rthough we got no bot for that anymore): | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##meeting start | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sth like that | 20:15 |
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| ivgalvez | you just need to enter in Maemo News at Council's blog: http://maemo.org/community/council/ | 20:16 |
| ivgalvez | make login | 20:16 |
| ivgalvez | you should all be able to check that tha have the option to create articles | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez | at the upper toolbar | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez | under the "folder" menu | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | garage account! | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez | right | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez | so for the agenda, we have: | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (dunno, MentalistTraceur did you get summary of last week's introduction?) | 20:18 |
| ivgalvez | 1. Chairman election | 20:18 |
| ivgalvez | 2. CC | 20:18 |
| ivgalvez | 3. Board update | 20:18 |
| ivgalvez | 4. Infrastructure | 20:18 |
| ivgalvez | 5. Misc | 20:18 |
| ivgalvez | any more topics you can think about? | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 4. IRC stuff: (cloaks, access lists) | 20:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Yes, Joerg, I did.) | 20:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Well, I read the log, I assume what you're referring to was in there?) | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, mainly | 20:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, well, I suppose we can start the meeting officially. | 20:20 |
| ivgalvez | MentalistTraceur, go on | 20:20 |
| kerio | can i get a @maemocouncil/troll/kerio cloak? | 20:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, council meeting is officially in order, on this fine day of November 16th, 2012. | 20:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | First on the agenda, chairman election. | 20:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | I was nominated by Joerg, I accept the nomination unless someone else wants the position (if you do say so, if not, I take it we can just vote on it). | 20:23 |
| ivgalvez | I say yes | 20:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Honestly, I know we already pretty much all agreed to have me as chair, I just want it here on record for the minutes) | 20:24 |
| qwazix | I say yes too | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm noting that we're not complete | 20:25 |
| ivgalvez | it doesn't matter | 20:25 |
| ivgalvez | it's amajority vote | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just for the record | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 20:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | Indeed, we are missing one councilmember, though if he wants the position I'd be happy to do a re-vote when he is present. | 20:26 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, it seems I have been formally chosen as chairman, everyone may take 4.3 seconds break to rejoice. | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cheers!! | 20:27 |
| MentalistTraceur | Enough rejoicing. | 20:27 |
| MentalistTraceur | Next step on the agenda, qwazix brought up the fact that we have an issue, | 20:27 |
| MentalistTraceur | with an N950 for CC, I believe. | 20:28 |
| ivgalvez | links? | 20:28 |
| qwazix | Yes, one of the N950 has some area of the touchscreen dead | 20:28 |
| qwazix | just a sec | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ouch | 20:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Where CC presumably refers to the coding competition, for anyone reading this later who may be confused.) | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how unfortunate | 20:28 |
| ivgalvez | that's real bad luck, there are no more devices left | 20:29 |
| ivgalvez | only chance is that it can be repaired | 20:29 |
| MentalistTraceur | Being a first-time councilmember I have no idea how these things are normally handled - i.e. who do we contact to see if repairs can be made? | 20:30 |
| qwazix | link to post from unlucky CC winner http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1293477&postcount=1071 | 20:31 |
| ivgalvez | first of all user, the CC winner should contact Nokia directly | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DDP | 20:32 |
| ivgalvez | if there is any problem, we can try with higher instances | 20:32 |
| qwazix | Is there a mail address I can give to him? | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's called 2escalate" ;) | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: he should've received an email with delivery notification from Nokia | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually signed by a real human | 20:32 |
| ivgalvez | yes, they have changed that contact a few times now | 20:33 |
| qwazix | Some people didn't. They just received a DHL package | 20:33 |
| ivgalvez | so I probably have an old direction non working now | 20:33 |
| qwazix | If he didn't should I give him the mail address of the person that sent my confirmation e-mail? | 20:33 |
| ivgalvez | qwazix I'll send you the addresses I know | 20:33 |
| qwazix | ivgalvez, thanks | 20:33 |
| ivgalvez | but I'm afraid that peple is leaving Nokia at real light speed | 20:34 |
| ivgalvez | s/peple/people/ | 20:34 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, if that's all that we can do at the moment to help with this issue, we can move on to the next item on the agenda. | 20:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyone else have anything to add here before we do? | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a general notice to council: according to council "foundation" info, we're all supposed to stay on IRC and be available here | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (or rather, in #maemo) | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nothing to add, next topic | 20:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Perpetually? | 20:38 |
| ivgalvez | DocScrutinizer05: you can't be beaten on that matter | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, either that, or frequently | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not exactly a must, more a very nice to have | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | everybody to his capabilities | 20:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay. And with that, next topic. | 20:39 |
| qwazix | I'll try to have it open as much as I can | 20:39 |
| kerio | doc is on irc about 48 hours a day | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | duh! feels longer | 20:39 |
| qwazix | It's just that usually it's hard to not focus away from whatever else I'm doing when it's open | 20:40 |
| qwazix | :| | 20:40 |
| MentalistTraceur | "Board Update", is the next item on the agenda, I'm not completely clear what this exactly entails. | 20:40 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: 'twas a joke on your two clients | 20:40 |
| MentalistTraceur | I imagine this is just a status update from the board? | 20:40 |
| ivgalvez | yes | 20:41 |
| ivgalvez | Board meeting was yesterday | 20:41 |
| ivgalvez | I asked SD69 about a specific question I was talking with Doc a few days before | 20:41 |
| ivgalvez | how is an officer or adminstrator, once appointed by Board, legally obliged with Board | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we can discuss / mention it here: it's about sysops/admins and their qualification and liability | 20:42 |
| ivgalvez | he told us that there is no need to sign a contract, NFP legislation is enough if somene accepts the appointment, like a verbal contract | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we (or board) can't simply ask for somebody to 'help a day or two' on admin of maemo infra | 20:43 |
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| ivgalvez | there should be an officer (appointed by Board) whou would be the adminstrator | 20:44 |
| ivgalvez | he will be legally entitled to be | 20:44 |
| ivgalvez | but this officer can either be a person or group of persons | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe we don't need signed contracts, but we need to make sure our volunteers have sufficient understanding of the responsibilities they accept, and of course they should be able to handle server infra without doing mess | 20:44 |
| ivgalvez | i.e. Council could be appointed as administrator | 20:45 |
| ivgalvez | or an individual | 20:45 |
| ivgalvez | that's a different question | 20:45 |
| ivgalvez | when you hire someone you need to be sure he could do the job | 20:45 |
| kerio | gimme the root passwordz, i'll admin no problem | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly! | 20:46 |
| MentalistTraceur | Quick technical note: what does NFP stand for in the above "NFP legislation"? | 20:46 |
| ivgalvez | so, as a summary, Board can appoint an individual or a group. In that second case, appointing full Council was proposed for that | 20:46 |
| ivgalvez | Non For Profit | 20:46 |
| kerio | non-for-profit i think | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Non For Profit | 20:46 |
| MentalistTraceur | Oh. | 20:46 |
| kerio | ivgalvez: who has the legal responsibilities in the second case? | 20:47 |
| kerio | the whole council? | 20:47 |
| ivgalvez | so what do you think about that option, do you think it's better to appoint whole Council as administrators or an individual? | 20:47 |
| qwazix | From my limited administration experience, the administration of the maemo assets is something more than a full time job for a qualified admin. | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretty sure there should be as low number of admins as possible | 20:48 |
| ivgalvez | the rationale is that there will be periods of time for vacations, real life issues, work nightmares, etc in which a solely individua lcould not be available | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and aiui none of us council members is an experienced admin | 20:48 |
| ivgalvez | no, please let me clarify that | 20:48 |
| ivgalvez | administrator appointed by Board doesn't need to be the master of Linus | 20:49 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i'm not so sure that having omnicomprehensive admins is a good idea | 20:49 |
| ivgalvez | Linux | 20:49 |
| ivgalvez | I mean, adminstrator would be responsible of knowing the root passwords, do basic administrative tasks | 20:50 |
| ivgalvez | recruit experts for specific tasks | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd suggest I volunteer to play the LordKeyholder, and in case I'm not available, ivgalvez or whomever got the passwords and gave them to me still has access to them | 20:50 |
| kerio | sysadmin, repo admin, webserver admin, wiki admin | 20:50 |
| ivgalvez | yes, let's say that someone is able to adimnistrate repositories but not Midgard | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can do some administrative work with real admins, be available for coordination stuff, and handle accounts | 20:51 |
| ivgalvez | there won't be the same people, but there must be a responsible person (or group) | 20:51 |
| ivgalvez | sold | 20:51 |
| kerio | i mean, give them all the password so they can tag in if someone is missing, but separate the responsibilities | 20:51 |
| Woody14619b | Yipes... I hate DST. :P | 20:51 |
| kerio | *passwords | 20:51 |
| ivgalvez | If you are volunteering you have my vote | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619b: \o/ | 20:52 |
| qwazix | welcome Woody14619b | 20:52 |
| kerio | i vote DocScrutinizer05 as the eternal leader | 20:52 |
| Woody14619b | catching up on backlog. ;) But do go ahead... | 20:52 |
| ivgalvez | Woody14619b, you volunteered for some tasks such as Midgard, voting machine, etc | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I'm not any leader, I'm just the majordomo | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in that case | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | holding the keys and handing them out | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | telling those who need them which room is available and which is occupied | 20:53 |
| qwazix | Shouldn't this be done the other way around? Just authorizing ssh keys for people for limited time (so we can revoke them any time) | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if nobody else is volunteering | 20:54 |
| qwazix | instead of handing out passwords? | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: sure | 20:54 |
| ivgalvez | so, Council should propose an administrator to Board, do we agree to propose Doc for that position | 20:55 |
| ivgalvez | ? | 20:55 |
| qwazix | I agree | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no objections, I've been silly enough to suggest it | 20:55 |
| MentalistTraceur | (I second qwazix on that ssh key point) | 20:55 |
| kerio | well of course | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: that's a quite obvious point | 20:56 |
| ivgalvez | OK, then I will invite doc for next Board meeting, in which he could be officially appointed for the position if Board agrees | 20:56 |
| Woody14619b | ivgalvex: correct. I'm happy to help where I can with infra. :) | 20:56 |
| ivgalvez | Woody14619b: you did a great job with voting machine | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: please give me headway to prepare my schedules | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: or is next board meeting already fixed date? | 20:57 |
| ivgalvez | Board meetings are at Google Hangout, (for VoIP) every Thursday at 18:00 UTC | 20:57 |
| Woody14619b | It still needs lots of improvement though... adding the ability to setup an election via webpage, create electorate db, etc... | 20:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | It seems we already have a majorty, but I agree was well with nominating Doc as an administator to board. | 20:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/was well/as well/ | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | YAY, please introduce me to that google hangout thing before | 20:58 |
| ivgalvez | you need a Google+ account, that sucks but.. | 20:58 |
| kerio | >google+ | 20:58 |
| kerio | i don't even | 20:58 |
| ivgalvez | I only use it for meetings | 20:58 |
| Woody14619b | I agree with qwazix on the setup for access. Limited ssh access, prefereably with sudo capability for trackability. :) | 20:59 |
| kerio | Woody14619b: that's stupid | 20:59 |
| kerio | either put trusted people in charge, or don't | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, kinda | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's pretty hard to enable admin without giving full root | 20:59 |
| ivgalvez | and finishing with Board updates, no news from nemein regarding the infrastructure mess | 20:59 |
| ivgalvez | minutes are being cooked | 21:00 |
| kerio | good admins will keep notes on what they're doing | 21:00 |
| Woody14619b | kerio: No, it's not. Jefferson said it best: Locks exist not to kepe theives out, but to keep honest men honest. | 21:00 |
| kerio | but for them, and the poor sod that will follow them | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you got shell history anyway | 21:00 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: history -c | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | will earn you eternal fame | 21:01 |
| kerio | Woody14619b: you've given them root, at that point the trust you can have *on the whole system* is just as good as the trust you had on them | 21:01 |
| kerio | including the trust you have on syslog | 21:02 |
| kerio | and the sudo log | 21:02 |
| Woody14619b | kerio: true, and any admin worth his salt can get pure root access with sudo capabilities. But knowing there's a log vs knowing it's untracable are two different things. | 21:02 |
| Woody14619b | kerio: and frankly, it makes it harder (not impossible) to cover tracks. Increasing the bar of "is it worth it"... ;) | 21:03 |
| kerio | i guess my point is that any admin worth having as an admin is pointless to log with external means | 21:03 |
| Woody14619b | Just my 2 cents on this. It's Council/Boards call on this now. | 21:03 |
| kerio | because if he's not evil, it's useless | 21:03 |
| kerio | and if it's evil and good, it's useless | 21:04 |
| kerio | *he's | 21:04 |
| Woody14619b | kerio: I do this to myself, on my own system... So I have a track of what I do.... | 21:04 |
| kerio | Woody14619b: as i said, good admins will keep notes *for them* and the other admins | 21:04 |
| Woody14619b | It's not about good an evil. It's about custom and routine. | 21:04 |
| kerio | including shell history and logs of course | 21:04 |
| Woody14619b | Just like we don't have ops on channel here, despite the fact that most can call chanserv to get them. | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are certain best practices for admin | 21:05 |
| kerio | Woody14619b: that's because of freenode policy | 21:05 |
| Woody14619b | Same mechanism. Having the priv is one thing. Being in it constantly leads to doing things sloppily for most people. | 21:05 |
| Woody14619b | kerio: Yes, and freenode has that policy for a reason... | 21:05 |
| Woody14619b | Anyway... I'll stop highjacking the COuncil meeting now. :) | 21:05 |
| Woody14619b | Who's calling topics? :) Probably time for the next one. ;) | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619b: actually that's a point here in this chan. Right now *nobody* active could +o | 21:06 |
| ivgalvez | MentalistTraceur is new chairman, please move to next topic | 21:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | Fwiw, I am inclined to agree with woody on this. Good admins should keep notes of what they do but they might not. Trusted admins won't try to break things they shouldn't, but you might not know an admin is going to abuse the power given to them until it's too late. I don't think, but I admin my knowledge in this field is not great, to set up the kind of extra security woody is talking about, even if it's still obvio | 21:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | usly circumventable by someone determined. | 21:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | But I suppose we went off track by now, and honestly this discussion can probably take place separately. | 21:08 |
| Woody14619b | DocScrutinizer05: true... but I would susspect that for admin, the Board would have access to the admin account as part of their legal responsabilities in any case. So it's less likely to be lost, as it was here. | 21:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Sorry for delay in typing that above out, as I said earlier, today my thumb-typing is not as fast as it could be.) | 21:08 |
| kerio | if you're giving someone root, you *have* to trust them wholeheartedly, 100%, no-question-asked | 21:08 |
| kerio | otherwise, there's something seriously wrong with your security | 21:08 |
| Woody14619b | Also, consider that if you're going to give full access to Council, as described... Do you want the next Estel to have root, or sudo? | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll frequently log in and check syslogs and shell history, and I'll think about guidelines about best practice | 21:09 |
| ivgalvez | Woody14619b, that was one of the ideas considered, I was only presenting it to Council | 21:10 |
| * Woody14619b nods... But again... If that becomse policy... | 21:10 | |
| Woody14619b | There was a reason Council is/was not given admin/mod/chanop privs at election. | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll even set up remote syslog, so I can check that on a location no maemo admin has a way to delete it | 21:11 |
| kerio | that's probably why it shouldn't have that kind of direct access | 21:11 |
| ivgalvez | of course, but don't kill the messanger ;) | 21:11 |
| Woody14619b | And frankly, I'm quite happy that it wasn't. Despite the fact it would have made my job running elecitons much easier. ;) | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think we beaten that horse to death now | 21:11 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: remote syslog to multiple places is a cool idea | 21:11 |
| * Woody14619b nods... Was going to suggest that, but then there's the "who watches the watchers watcher..." ;) Lol. | 21:12 | |
| kerio | Woody14619b: we don't need to watch the watchmen watchers | 21:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, next topic. The remaining details of security can be ironed out in other discussions elsewhen/where, I think. | 21:12 |
| kerio | they don't have powers | 21:12 |
| kerio | MentalistTraceur: but it's fun! :( | 21:12 |
| * Woody14619b calls the glue factory to cart the dead horse away.. | 21:13 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just one last note: I'm NOT the one to find admins, nor to decide about to accept them, first instance | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just the gate keeper | 21:13 |
| ivgalvez | DocScrutinizer05, who would do that then? | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to be discussed | 21:14 |
| * Woody14619b thinks it would be best to get input on such things from the whole Council (and maybe Board as well) | 21:14 | |
| qwazix | We'll have to discuss that once we do have the keys to the gate | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can't do that | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can contribute | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | share my notion about candidates | 21:14 |
| ivgalvez | who can do that? | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: you said council will present suggestions to board | 21:15 |
| kerio | i offer myself for the position of #maemo ircop | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's still board to say YAY or NAy on each admin | 21:15 |
| kerio | and possibly something else, but i don't have the expertise for anything else, i believe | 21:15 |
| ivgalvez | OK, so process would be people volunteer or Council looks for specific expert on topic | 21:16 |
| ivgalvez | then Council ratifies | 21:16 |
| ivgalvez | and Board appoints | 21:16 |
| ivgalvez | is that OK? | 21:16 |
| Woody14619b | Council does leg work, Board reviews... sounds sane to me. :) | 21:16 |
| kerio | isn't this a responsibility of the board though? | 21:16 |
| kerio | i mean, a legal responsibility | 21:16 |
| ivgalvez | appointing yes, recruiting can be delagated | 21:16 |
| kerio | oh, ofc | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I won't hand out access on my own discretion | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm humbe executive of board's decisions | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and scrutinizer ;-) | 21:18 |
| ivgalvez | ok, sounds good | 21:18 |
| * Woody14619b holds up his MT mask and says: "Topic 5: IRC cloaks?" :) | 21:18 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *might* revoke access and present the case to board/council | 21:18 |
| MentalistTraceur | Question - so if the Board is the final say in all admins, and board holds all the keys and stuff anyway, doesn't that make a separate gatekeeper redundant? (Though the other stuff, coordinating admins, etc, revoking access in a situation where it's deemed urgent, etc, obviously still needs a person and Doc might as well be that person.) | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's the idea | 21:20 |
| ivgalvez | we need an individual to do the job | 21:20 |
| ivgalvez | he would be an officer of Board | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm no experienced admin, so no way I become admin in chief | 21:20 |
| ivgalvez | like treasurer | 21:20 |
| ivgalvez | it's not that you must be an expert of everything | 21:21 |
| kerio | to be fair an admin in chief is only needed if we decide to have more than a couple sysadmins | 21:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright. That it for this topic? | 21:21 |
| ivgalvez | it's OK for me | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd say yes, for now that's just good enough, we can think about it and continue discussion next time | 21:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | Next on the agenda is item 4, "Infrastructure", which I am uncertain about the intended meaning of as well. | 21:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | Perhaps whoever added this to the agenda already feels the above discussion covered it? | 21:23 |
| ivgalvez | we have covered a lot of related topics already (administration) | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess it's the abysmal state of current infra | 21:23 |
| ivgalvez | the other topic is current situation | 21:23 |
| ivgalvez | yes, unfortunately there in no news here | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, wiki allows log in again | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but still no editing | 21:24 |
| ivgalvez | Nemein didn't respond on estimated time to fix problems | 21:24 |
| ivgalvez | nor accepted our offering to provide help | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: providing help creates same issues we just discussed with admins and trust | 21:24 |
| ivgalvez | Woody14619b fixed problems with voting machin for latest coding competition | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can't pick a bum from the street and give him root account for 2 days to 'help' | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | odds are you find your server turned into a fileshare | 21:26 |
| ivgalvez | in the same way someone with enough knowledge (that would be our task to find him) could help with autobuilder | 21:26 |
| Woody14619b | To be fair: What I did was code chanes in an SVN repository. I had no access on the machine itself, just to the garage. Niels was still needed to put those changes in place. | 21:26 |
| ivgalvez | yep, but the problem with autobuilder is similar | 21:26 |
| ivgalvez | some scripts don't work with newer Python version | 21:27 |
| ivgalvez | so it's something we could try to help with | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, there's an opportunity for community participation | 21:27 |
| ivgalvez | but no response at the moment | 21:27 |
| Woody14619b | Ah ok. :) In that case.. Perhapse we can recruit someone to install the latest python & fix/patch that? | 21:27 |
| qwazix | One way to achieve this is have the server software cloned and ready to download (virtual hdd) so that someone can fix things on his local host and send the vhd for approval and inclusion. | 21:27 |
| Woody14619b | Is Autobuilder in an SVN somewhere? | 21:28 |
| qwazix | or just send the diffs of the config/scripts/whatever | 21:28 |
| ivgalvez | I don't know | 21:28 |
| Woody14619b | qwazix: Great suggestion. | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619b: afaik yes | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bbiab | 21:29 |
| qwazix | (that's also a good way for not-so-experienced people to be able to trial-and-error until they fix it) | 21:29 |
| qwazix | already most of the servers are virtual | 21:29 |
| Woody14619b | One issue with that is there's often a need to access databases and such. In the case of the voting machine, for example, there's a file that contains the user/password for accessing the DB. | 21:30 |
| Woody14619b | That file is the only one not checked into SVN... | 21:30 |
| qwazix | If those credentials work only from localhost that's not a problem. | 21:31 |
| Woody14619b | A virtual image would necessetate including that (or mounting a /etc/network folder to contain such items inside the LAN) | 21:31 |
| qwazix | (that is the case by default with most MySql setups) | 21:32 |
| Woody14619b | Well, Yes.. but in this Nemien has said sever in the DMZ, since it's needed by internal and extrnal facing machines... | 21:33 |
| qwazix | You could very well know the user/pass of the voting machine db but you still wouldn't be able to log in to the real server remotely | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're talking about user database for user login aiui | 21:34 |
| qwazix | That thing with the internal, external and DMZ is a bit out of my capabilities, so I give up. | 21:35 |
| Woody14619b | Yes.. You could set it up that way, but that is not how it currently is setup. And to make those changes, requires admin level changes. That's 80% of the problem in a lot of this. It was thrown together for internal use, and became an external tool. | 21:35 |
| qwazix | Short story: we have a mess to sort out. | 21:35 |
| Woody14619b | yup. | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's left to say? | 21:36 |
| Woody14619b | But it's not *that* bad... someone spending a couple days on it could patch it up to fit the model we need. We just need to get the right person in there, with the time, to do it. :) | 21:36 |
| qwazix | We can continue discussing technical issues for hours, can we proceed to next topic if there is nothing to add? | 21:36 |
| Woody14619b | Yup | 21:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | Agreed. | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, please | 21:37 |
| Woody14619b | IRC Cloaks were next? | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, why not | 21:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Last item on the agenda was "Misc", which a few people have suggested be IRC Cloaks, etc. | 21:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | So we move on to that now. | 21:37 |
| ivgalvez | ok | 21:37 |
| ivgalvez | I'm about to live guys | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IRC cloaks, access lists | 21:38 |
| ivgalvez | leave | 21:38 |
| ivgalvez | see you later | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll basically try to sort that out with X-Fade | 21:38 |
| qwazix | bye ivgalvez | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bye | 21:38 |
| ivgalvez | bye | 21:38 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright. Bye. | 21:38 |
| *** ivgalvez has quit IRC | 21:38 | |
| Woody14619b | I think most of the access list stuff is done via the garage. | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: you want a IRC cloak? | 21:38 |
| MentalistTraceur | I barely even understand how IRC cloaks work. | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619b: not IRC access lists | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: do a /whois DocScrutinizer05 | 21:39 |
| Woody14619b | Ahh... k. :) My bad, though you were talking maemo.org access. | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do a /whois Woody14619b | 21:39 |
| Woody14619b | On that topipc: Have you had MT add himself to the garage? He'll need that to post to the Council Blog. | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, Woody14619b, you're not logged in | 21:40 |
| Woody14619b | no.. second alias account is not regged.. here. :) | 21:40 |
| *** Woody14619b has quit IRC | 21:40 | |
| *** Woody14619 has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:41 | |
| Woody14619 | There.. all beter. :) | 21:41 |
| MentalistTraceur | So it masks your host, basically, in the whois info? | 21:41 |
| Woody14619 | It also gives people a clue as to where you are in the FOSS world... | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: yep | 21:42 |
| *** vi___ has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:42 | |
| *** freemangordon has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a lot of meamo users got /maemo/contributor or sth like that | 21:42 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Shrug* Sure, why not. | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now do a /whois Woody14619 | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [Whois] Woody14619 is ~Woody@Maemo/Community/council/Woody14619 (Craig Woodward) | 21:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Already ahead of you. Whois'ed him as soon as he logged back in :) ) | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also we need to remove some cloaks from those who aren't council anymore | 21:43 |
| * Woody14619 glaces left and right.... preparing to run! | 21:44 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and we should get added to access list of this channel so we can change /topic etc | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: I know somebody else who really shouldn't have that cloak anymore | 21:44 |
| * Woody14619 nods. Minially you should Doc. Anyone with access to #maemo really should already have it. | 21:45 | |
| * Woody14619 nods about that too.... | 21:45 | |
| Stskeeps | (please strip me of mine too while you're at it..) | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | cloak, that is | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, Stskeeps | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: please include to minutes: cloak remove: e*_, Stskeeps. Cloak add: MentalistTraceur, qwazix | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I kinda feel reluctant to remove Woody14619's cloak, if none of current council got objections | 21:47 |
| * Woody14619 thinks in the not too distant future Board will wind up +F | 21:47 | |
| qwazix | no objections | 21:47 |
| Woody14619 | Nah.. nuke it. If there's a honorary "pastCouncil" cloak, I'm good... | 21:47 |
| Woody14619 | But no reason to keep me showing as Council when I'm not. :) | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, please add that to minutes too, MentalistTraceur | 21:48 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* Will do. | 21:48 |
| MentalistTraceur | whois mentalisttraceur | 21:48 |
| Woody14619 | The only reason I even got the cloaks setup this past term was someone was pushing for it as a status symbol. | 21:48 |
| MentalistTraceur | That's how I'd test it right? | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: /unafilliated/* then? | 21:49 |
| MentalistTraceur | when it takes effect, but with the / in front. | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or /maemo/contributor? | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: yep | 21:49 |
| * Woody14619 is good with whatever... including going back to my normal non-cloack self. But sure, contributor would be nice. | 21:50 | |
| Woody14619 | .oO(So long as it's not a humerious title like "Jester" or "Jackass" ;) | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: qwazix: ivgalvez: you need to register to nickserv, to get any cloak | 21:50 |
| MentalistTraceur | Thought so, wanted to wait until post-meeting to double-check | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /msg nickserv help register | 21:51 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, I'm registered | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (btw I'll keep my cloak) | 21:52 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05 how do I check registration status? | 21:53 |
| qwazix | (just in case) | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /msg nickserv info <nick> | 21:53 |
| qwazix | ty | 21:54 |
| Woody14619 | Also, MentalistTraceur, you'll also want to add youself to the Council garage. | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: didn't you send transscript of both channels of last week to MentalistTraceur? | 21:54 |
| MentalistTraceur | He sent me that of this channel, that I remember, don't think he sent the other. | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: could you do this? | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think it got a few other useful info as well | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | beyond garage | 21:56 |
| * Woody14619 nods... Will e-mail it. :) | 21:57 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks! | 21:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | Thank you. | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | Had to figure out how to open/join the channel again. :) | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | need help? | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | nope, got it. | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm done with IRC stuff | 21:58 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, we've not formally ended this meeting yet, | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic? | 21:58 |
| MentalistTraceur | So, anyone have anything else to add? | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | misc? | 21:58 |
| MentalistTraceur | If not, then the agenda's done and we can wrap up for the day. | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: who's managing the council@maemo.org mail aliases? | 21:59 |
| Woody14619 | That's X-Fade. | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | weird, but ok | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we should see how to change that eventually | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | Probably best to bundle the requests. :) (Cloaks, etc) | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cloak requests will get bundled | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | That's one of the many things Council should be able to add to and/or remove themselves from. | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mail addr needs immediate sort out, I'm not receiving council mail atm | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, I think meeting closed? | 22:03 |
| Woody14619 | Ask your chairman. ;) | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just did | 22:03 |
| MentalistTraceur | As I take it no one has any objections or anything else to add, | 22:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | yes, it is. | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##meeting closed | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or whatever | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 22:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | Now I have to go figure out this meeting minutes thing and get that done. | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (there once been maemobot which prepared minutes from those commands automatically) | 22:05 |
| Woody14619 | Very simple. Steal a template, replace the date/participants, insert topics and you're almost done. ;) | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | Oh. FWIW, I have a web archive of the minutes and logs. Will attach that as well to the e-mail I'm sending? Nothing you can't get on blog/chan-logger, with a few minor exceptions when povbot was away/split. But handy to have none the less. | 22:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | Sure, would be appreciated. | 22:09 |
| *** vi___ has quit IRC | 22:10 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hah, you already got accepted at garage | 22:11 |
| *** freemangordon has left #maemo-meeting | 22:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | somebody beat me on it | 22:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | So the minutes ought to be essentially as formatted here?: maemo.org/community/council/community_council_meeting-aug_3-2012/ | 22:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Manually typed that URL in so it might be broken) | 22:12 |
| Woody14619 | That's how I generally have done it, yes. :P | 22:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Just checked, URL loads fine. although woody's comment in the affirmitive beat me to that confirmation) | 22:13 |
| qwazix | I'll be going. I wont log off but I will be afk most of the time from now on. Goodnight. | 22:13 |
| Woody14619 | I type it up ahead of time, e-mail it to Council for a quick "approval" Friday, and generally post is Monday with any feedback (usually none) I got. | 22:13 |
| Woody14619 | As for how you folks want to do it... well.. It's not at all set in stone. | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: afk all fine, nobody expects you to sit 24/7 in front of IRC window (like I do ;-P) | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: good night | 22:14 |
| Woody14619 | The Council before us had 3 meetings their entire term, and no minutes to speak of. | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and thanks everybody for attending meeting | 22:15 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: FWIW, I was the only Council on IRC most of this past term, and was only really paying attention a few hours a day during the week, if that. | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, your IRC client should highlight your nick, so it's easy to see what was up during you were afk | 22:17 |
| * Woody14619 nods. You can also highlight other words with most clients. | 22:18 | |
| Woody14619 | I added "Council", "Board", and a few other choice words to catch things I was interested in. ;) | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya folks | 22:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | Bye. | 22:19 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 heads out to blame his flu | 22:19 | |
| Woody14619 | k, off to mail off a few items and will catch you all next week. | 22:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, closing this channel, will idle in #maemo for a while. | 22:28 |
| *** MentalistTraceur has left #maemo-meeting | 22:28 | |
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| *** qwazix has quit IRC | 23:24 | |
| *** kolp_ is now known as kolp | 23:26 | |
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