IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Friday, 2012-11-09

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DocScrutinizer05yoh19:58
SD69hello19:58
DocScrutinizer05hi SD6919:58
vi__excuse me, I'l just sit up the back and listen.19:58
keriovi__: booooo19:59
vi__If I have any relevent points to make, am I allowed to speak during the meeting or is it council only?19:59
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SD69anyone can speak19:59
ivgalvezhi20:00
qwazixhi20:00
DocScrutinizer05excuse me if I'm a bit dull today, caught a cold20:02
kerioyeah, i can hear it in your voice20:03
DocScrutinizer05:-)20:03
keriooh no wait, this is the internet20:03
kerioon the internet, no one can hear you sniffle20:04
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SD69does anyone know if woody will be on soon?20:04
DocScrutinizer05let me post a "thank you Woody14619a" for sovereign leading of new council election20:05
ivgalvezwe should wait for him20:06
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ivgalvezOk it's 15 munutes late, maybe we should start now20:15
DocScrutinizer05i'm missing nieldk and mentalist-traceur20:15
DocScrutinizer05of the new team20:15
ivgalvezOK, let's go20:17
ivgalvez#Start Maemo Council meeting20:17
ivgalvezAgenda:20:17
DocScrutinizer05here, aka joerg_rw20:17
ivgalvez1. New Council20:18
ivgalvez2. Status update on migration from Board20:18
Woody14619asorry for my tardiness... Time-shift caught me. ;) (-4 vs -5)20:19
ivgalvez3. Other topics20:19
ivgalvezgreat20:19
DocScrutinizer05hi Woody14619a :-D20:19
Woody14619aHello all. :)  Thank you for starting the meeting Ivan. :)20:19
ivgalvezWoody14619a did you have any other agenda prepared?20:19
Woody14619aI would like to add an item for transfer of things... (infor the new council may need)20:20
ivgalvezgo ahead, you are still chairman ;)20:21
DocScrutinizer05yeah, unlike ivgalvez we newcomers could use such introduction20:21
Woody14619asorry, manager had an emergency. ;)20:21
DocScrutinizer05np20:21
DocScrutinizer05a pity 2 of new team missing20:21
Woody14619aOK, so.. now that the fire is put out. :)20:22
DocScrutinizer05aiui new council members attending: Joerg_rw, qwazix, ivgalvez20:22
Woody14619aSo, Topic 1: New Council.20:22
Woody14619aWelcome new Council members! :)20:22
DocScrutinizer05thanks20:22
ivgalvezThanks to you for making it possible20:22
qwazixthanks20:23
Woody14619aWell, it was technically something somewhat required... ;)20:23
Woody14619aSomething to keep in mind when the new Council starts it's rounds of "not it" for assigning Chair. ;)20:23
Woody14619aEffective this meeting, you are all now happy Council people.20:24
DocScrutinizer05\o/ *cough*20:24
Woody14619aThere are a list of things we need to have you all do, but that will happen after the meeting. :)20:24
Woody14619a(Prefered e-mails to put you on the Council list, etc)20:25
Woody14619aAt this point though, I think we can move to topic 2? :)20:25
DocScrutinizer05I passed another communication channel details to eachof you for such stuff20:25
Woody14619aTopic 2: Staus update from the Board?20:25
ivgalvezWe should insert a new Topic 1.5: Election of chairman20:26
qwazixThis should probably be done with all councillors present20:26
Woody14619aWe could?  I would think that's more of a topic for the new Council. :)20:26
DocScrutinizer05indeed20:27
DocScrutinizer05on both20:27
Woody14619aWe did that somewhat privately and announced it later...20:27
ivgalvezWe need a chairman for today's meeting to do the minutes20:27
Woody14619aI see no need for them to do otherwise, so long as it happens relatively soon.20:27
ivgalvezWould you mind Woody14619a?20:27
Woody14619aThe list of things you need to do include selecting a Chair, and having said person post a blog entry with a welcome.20:28
DocScrutinizer05seems for today Woody14619a is still leader of this lil chat, and chairman in duty until proper handover20:28
ivgalvezqwazix, DocScrutinizer05, do you both agree to discuss chairman election by email to involve also Mentalist Traceur and nieldk?20:28
DocScrutinizer05yes, sure20:29
Woody14619aI'll be happy to continue as Chair through the end of the meeting.20:29
DocScrutinizer05much appreciated20:29
Woody14619aSo, with that, Topic 2? Update from the Board on status and what not.20:29
Woody14619aIvan, I think you're best suited for that. :)20:29
ivgalvezOK then, I'll summarise it20:30
qwazixyes here too20:30
ivgalvezWe are currently in conversations with both Nokia and Nemein about the migration to self administrated infrastructure governed by the Foundation20:30
ivgalvezUnfortunately it's been slow for some time20:31
ivgalvezbut it seems that communication is improving20:31
DocScrutinizer05who's slowing it down?20:31
ivgalvezFor some time we didn't get answers from both Nemein and Nokia20:31
DocScrutinizer05frankly!20:31
ivgalveznow we are talk with Nemein20:31
ivgalvezand need to resume conversations with Nokia20:32
ivgalvezthat's a bit difficult as people dissapears from there quite fast20:32
DocScrutinizer05any news about domain transferal?20:32
ivgalvezNot, yet. It's in my top priority list20:32
DocScrutinizer05:nod:20:32
DocScrutinizer05access to servers?20:33
ivgalvezthe current hosting is still at Logica and Nemein only provides the software-level maintenance20:33
DocScrutinizer05to do a bulk copy20:33
qwazixDo you feel there are people responsible in nokia or is it there a corporate maze of responsibilities?20:33
SD69I am supposed to receive the document to transfer the domain name any day now...20:33
DocScrutinizer05ooh, that's great news20:33
ivgalvezSD69, great20:33
qwazixindeed20:33
DocScrutinizer05modulo it actually happening20:34
ivgalvezNokia has expressed their will to donate three servers in the form of Nemein (or other vendor or the Foundation) purchasing the servers and then Nokia  reimbursing the purchasing party20:34
ivgalvezI hope they will do it20:34
DocScrutinizer05again great news20:35
DocScrutinizer05Nokia has kind moments20:35
ivgalvezNokia has also  offered to handle some of our migration costs20:35
DocScrutinizer05duh!20:35
ivgalvezbut again, all of this still needs to happen!20:35
DocScrutinizer05indeed20:35
qwazix<paranoid mode> maemo is a nokia trademark. What if they transfer the domain and then something changes and try to get it back by legal means due to having the trademark? </paranoid mode>20:35
ivgalvezdunno, honestly20:36
DocScrutinizer05well, the trademark is a very special topic I guess20:36
qwazixDo we have a kind of legal way to prove it has been handed over for a period of time or something?20:36
SD69qwazix:  we will have a disclaimer on the website or redirect to a different domain20:36
Woody14619aGreat job on getting all that moving to everyone on the Board.  I know we did some of this as Council but were hitting walls for legal reasons.20:36
ivgalvezindeed, all this work was started by former Council20:36
DocScrutinizer05no fingerpointing please! ;-)20:37
SD69qwazix: and hopefully the domain name transfer will indicate that disclaimer is acceptable to Nokia20:37
Woody14619aqwazix: I also assume that part of the hand off will include the Foundation having to do some paperwork in any case, including agreements about resitributables if we wind up inheriting that as well.20:37
ivgalvezNow, we are discussing about the services that are hosted at Logica20:37
ivgalvezI'd like to start the formation of an administrators group20:38
qwazixSD69, Woody14619a, sounds reasonable. It wouldn't harm to ask for a "permission to use" legal document however.20:38
ivgalvezWoody14619a, lma, merlin1991, freemangordon and pali have already volunteered to take some tasks20:39
Woody14619aagreed. :)  But I think that will be one of the easier bits to manage.20:39
DocScrutinizer05ivgalvez: picking good admins is a difficult task20:39
SD69since it's taking so long to send the legal document, I hope they are addressing these issues in it20:39
DocScrutinizer05ivgalvez: since, you know, admins are always a bit special20:39
ivgalvezMy suggestion is start a thread (publishing in Council's blog, TMO and ml as usual)20:40
qwazixok, let's hope for the best.20:40
ivgalvezcalling for volunteers20:40
ivgalvezas once we start migrating services, dependig on the final hosting20:40
DocScrutinizer05volunteers for admin usually doesn't work well. Too many wanna-be admins, too few experienced ones20:40
ivgalvezwe might need to do a lot of work by ourselves20:41
qwazixI'd trust better one that doesn't want to be admin...20:41
ivgalvezDocScrutinizer05, agree20:41
DocScrutinizer05better approach: pick "volunteers" ;-D20:41
ivgalvezthat's why we have first talked only with trusted members20:41
ivgalvezWoody14619a, lma, merlin1991, freemangordon and pali20:42
ivgalvezat this moment20:42
DocScrutinizer05:nod:20:42
DocScrutinizer05I'd trust each of them, regarding character. No idea about competence20:42
ivgalvezthere would be lack of knowledge in certain areas but at least we need to get some people to start with20:43
DocScrutinizer05yep20:43
DocScrutinizer05agree on that20:43
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991 would be the most natural choice20:43
ivgalvezonce that specific needs arrive, we can the look for some spetialised guys20:44
Woody14619aTo be fair, my skills are rusty, but the scope of my offer is mainly around midguard/ SVN/ voting machine, etc.20:44
DocScrutinizer05maybe you could form an admin team, complementing each other's skills?20:44
Woody14619aI think so far the list of people invovled have the skillsets we need to keep things going, and handle transistion and minor repairs.20:45
ivgalvezthat would be the best approach20:45
DocScrutinizer05I'm willing to help on a 15min comment-on-it basis20:45
DocScrutinizer05and an occasional sudo ps20:46
DocScrutinizer05IANAA20:46
ivgalveztransition won't be easy so even if Board negotiates with Nemein, Nokia, etc, it would be good to have Council dealing with the technical side of the issue20:46
qwazixI can probably help with not-too-advanced php matters too20:46
DocScrutinizer05great20:46
ivgalvezSo I will send the technical details we are discussing with Nemein to Council20:47
Woody14619aSo... Topic 3: Remaining business from this Council going to the next? (Or does the Board have more to discuss?)20:47
DocScrutinizer05ivgalvez: I don't think we could negotiate details regarding council's duties and jobs right now, with 2 of us new ones missing20:48
ivgalvezDocScrutinizer05, for the time being I will only share the technical information that Board has20:49
DocScrutinizer05btw aiui appointing admins is a pretty clear board domain20:49
qwazixIt's good if we had an idea of what is to be done though,20:49
DocScrutinizer05sure20:49
DocScrutinizer05council can suggest admins20:49
ivgalvezDocScrutinizer05, yes but I  think Council could work on it and propose a list of admins20:50
DocScrutinizer05board holding the root password20:50
ivgalvezappointments should be made during oficial VoIP meeting of Board20:50
DocScrutinizer05bbiab20:50
ivgalvezI think you can now go to Topic 3 Woody14619a20:51
Woody14619aSo... Topic 3: Remaining business from this Council going to next Council20:51
Woody14619aThe only outstanding Council issue that comes to my mind immediately is any required follow up on CC awards.  Currently I think there are still a couple of outstanding devices to be delivered?20:51
qwazixIt seems that this is true, as is that the bounty share hasn't been awarded.20:52
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619a: you informed the other 2 newbies about the Friday eve IRC meeting?20:52
ivgalveznieldk is no newbie20:53
DocScrutinizer05aah yep20:53
Woody14619aKojacker hasn't updated the wiki page lately, but the TMO thread has a few more than the wiki page... I think something like 21 are confirmed delivered.20:53
Woody14619aDocScrutinizer05: I did not think to do that actually. :(  I figured they were following along and would be here... :)20:54
DocScrutinizer05If I had, I had asked you earlier20:54
DocScrutinizer05we'll pick them up eventually ;-D20:55
DocScrutinizer05I gather you got their email addr anyway20:55
Woody14619aAs noted though Neil is not new. ;)  Though he may be thrown by the time shift, as I was (so he may show up in a f ew minutes. ;)20:55
qwazixWoody14619a, I can keep an eye on the competition awards as I've been following it closely, who do I ping in case of a problem in customs or missing device?20:56
Woody14619aWe'll e-mail that info to the Council list, along with an intro of the new members to the Nokia rep20:56
qwazixok20:56
DocScrutinizer05[2012-11-07 19:40:59] <Woody14619a> I'm hopeful that before then we'll have you folks all added on to the council e-mail list.  There are a series of hoops to hop through.  You need to add yourself to a garage so you have proper midguard privs, and a few other things.20:57
Woody14619aUnlike Quim, the current rep(s) prefer to not have their info broadcast....  Understandably.20:57
Woody14619aYes, that was the hope, but then my job exploded. (which is why I'm pausing on occasion here as well.... still exploding...)20:57
ivgalvezWoody14619a, I'm not sure if Nokia contact should now remain for Board20:58
ivgalvezas they are fading away20:58
Woody14619aI'm pretty sure on the CC front that shares were being held until all devices were delivered, to make sure if there were complications (delivery/customs, etc)20:58
qwazixYes that is correct20:59
Woody14619aPerhapse?  That's for the Board and new Council to hash out?  I don't seen a huge reason to hold it from Council though... Not my call to make. ;)20:59
Woody14619aAlso, adding people to the mailing list and what not requires work on X-Fade's part.  And he was travling this week.  So... :)21:01
DocScrutinizer05who will be our "judge" or "referee" in cases where council as well as board wnat or don't want to deal with any issue?21:01
Woody14619aI'm kind of confused on that question?21:02
DocScrutinizer05just in case council and board can't agree if a particular topic is either one's domain21:02
DocScrutinizer05we should think of a procedure to resolve such cases21:03
ivgalvezDocScrutinizer05 we'll fight to death ;)21:03
ivgalvezkidding21:03
DocScrutinizer05hehehe21:03
SD69DocScrutinizer05: Board decides21:03
Woody14619aCoucil is pretty much the caller when it comes to dealing with community issues, IMHO.  They decide if/when things are elevated or if they need to be, to the Board.21:03
Woody14619aBut on technical matters, yes, Board is the end authority.21:03
DocScrutinizer05SD69: you wouldn't expect but I'm fine with that, as long as all other involved parties are21:03
Woody14619aI susspect that 99.9% of the time though, Board will not intervene in community affairs (much the way Nokia has done)21:04
qwazixSeems reasonable to me too21:04
ivgalvezOK21:04
Woody14619aSo, topic 4:  Misc?21:04
Woody14619aAnything we missed? (Outside of setting things up for the new members...)21:05
qwazixWhat is the correct handling procedure of technical problems?21:05
DocScrutinizer05TBD21:05
ivgalvezright now, we directly contact with X-Fade21:05
qwazixcommunity->council->board->admins?21:06
Woody14619aI think the simplest way to start things is to get everyone on the Council e-mail alias.  Once that's done the rest can be discussed there.21:06
Woody14619aI would think that is correct qwazix, but in the end, that's something you'll be figuring out. :)21:06
qwazix4 steps are too much imho21:06
ivgalvezwe need to define our own procedure21:06
qwazixmaybe board should be left out of this if it doesnt involve financials21:06
ivgalvezonce we have a group of administrators21:06
DocScrutinizer05TBD = to be defined21:07
Woody14619aI think more often than not, it will go community->admins, unless there's something and admins have an issue with, or need clearance for...21:07
ivgalvezexactly21:07
Woody14619aBut admins will be answerable to the Board.21:07
ivgalvezadmins will be in touch with community and will know faster than anyone which problems are21:07
qwazixI don't think that $randomcommunitymember bugging admins is correct either...21:08
DocScrutinizer05I honestly suggest to *not* pester adminbs with direct community inquiries21:08
SD69we're (outgoing maemo council) are not the ones to be answering these questions; perhaps you should ask Board21:08
qwazix^^ Yes, that21:08
DocScrutinizer05a *real* admin will just answer 'GTFO'21:08
Woody14619aI think most things are reasonable.21:08
ivgalvezadmins could  define it's own mechanism for communication21:09
DocScrutinizer05a not so real admin will be lured into doing things he's not supposed to do21:09
qwazixSo this brings us to the next question. What is the official communication channel between council and board?21:09
ivgalvezwhatever is more useful for them21:09
Woody14619aFor example, if something is busted, and community notices, someone mailing a known admin is not out of line.21:09
DocScrutinizer05and generally it adds to the workload of admins21:09
ivgalvezqwazix, I can do such thing as I'm in both Council and Board21:10
Woody14619aJust as you would ping a moderator here if something on TMO was going insane.  You're not required to go through Reggie for every request.21:10
SD69I think from the Board's open letter, they will expect council to address most technical issues21:10
qwazixivgalvez, ok21:10
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619a: all my previous experience showed this works only for already established relations between the caller and the admin21:10
Woody14619aWhich I think will happen here as well...21:11
DocScrutinizer05:nod:21:11
Woody14619aThe official path will be through Council for the community.21:11
DocScrutinizer05so let's agree to not prematurely publish email addr of any admin21:11
DocScrutinizer05as a common denominator for now21:11
qwazix^^+121:12
Woody14619aBut knowing person X works on repos, if repos have and issue, and you see them... ;)21:12
Woody14619aAgreed.21:12
Woody14619aBut some will be known already, just from their own status/works.21:12
DocScrutinizer05sure21:12
qwazixIt's not a secret, just not encourage direct communication. It'll lead to spam.21:12
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Woody14619aExactly.21:12
DocScrutinizer05"admin. fsck you. tmo is slow! :-("21:13
DocScrutinizer05I've seen admins quiting their job due to that21:13
qwazixI just know what you mean.21:13
Woody14619aAnd again... I susspect if Council has an issue, unless it's something major, I don't see Board needing to approve every little thing.  If it uses money or changes soemthing large or controvercial, maybe.  But most tech details will fall to Council.21:14
DocScrutinizer05I agree 100%21:14
Woody14619aSo. :) Now that we have that all cleared up. :)21:14
qwazixso that is community->council->admins[->board if any financial or other serious decision required]21:14
DocScrutinizer05yep21:15
ivgalvezsounds about right21:15
DocScrutinizer05I'm announcing a 50% cpu time reduction assigned to this very task here, in ~30min max21:16
Woody14619aAnything else in the misc portion?21:16
Woody14619aIf not, we can close the meeting.  But new members, stick around. :)21:17
DocScrutinizer05current defects on larger maemo infra21:17
DocScrutinizer05ivgalvez already knows about it21:17
Woody14619aI need to get your info to put you on the e-mail list and what not.21:17
ivgalvezthat's something we have discussed a lot21:17
ivgalvezbut up to now we haven't had the chance to fix anything21:17
DocScrutinizer05I meant the very recent bugs21:17
Woody14619aYes... There's a lot for the new admins to do once they get their assignments. ;)21:17
DocScrutinizer05wiki edit broken21:18
SD69best wishes to new council  :-)21:18
ivgalvezo yes, X-Fade knows about it21:18
Woody14619aAs for some of the outages, some of that has been fixed.21:18
ivgalvezbut he was travelling this week21:18
SD69have fun guys21:18
ivgalvezit's being fixed ATM21:18
ivgalvezthanks SD6921:18
Woody14619aThanks for everything SD69. :)21:18
DocScrutinizer05SD69: thanks21:18
qwazixthanks oldtimer :)21:18
ivgalvez bye21:18
Woody14619aIt's been a pleasure working with you! :)21:18
SD69bye21:19
DocScrutinizer05o/21:19
* DocScrutinizer05 waves21:19
Woody14619a(Not that we're all moving away or anything...  ;)21:19
qwazixbye21:19
DocScrutinizer05hehe, I hope so21:19
ivgalvezyep, he's still secretary and legal counsel for Board21:19
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ivgalvezwhich I must say is quite important21:20
Woody14619aI will plan on attending here when possible, though I probably won't be tying as much. ;)21:20
ivgalvezhehe21:20
Woody14619atyping that is.21:20
ivgalvezI hopw to see you in admins team Woody14619a21:20
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619a: hey, we still need you for a short while :-D21:20
Woody14619aSo, Docscrutinizer05 and qwazix (and MT when he reads the logs) I need an e-mail from you to put on the Council e-mail list.  Probably best to PM me that, here or on TMO.21:21
Woody14619aI hope to be there as well Ivan. :)21:21
Woody14619aivgalvez: Also... FYI, I'm planning a trip to Spain this summer.21:22
ivgalvezgreat, maybe we can have a beer or two21:22
DocScrutinizer05there's this other channel I made for such stuff21:22
Woody14619aivgalvez: So, we can chat later, but if you're near by... exactly what I was going to suggest. ;)21:22
DocScrutinizer05less overhead than mail21:22
Woody14619aK.  Well, If nothing else here. :)21:24
Woody14619a#end Maemo Community Council meeting21:25
Woody14619aThanks all. :)21:25
DocScrutinizer05thanks everybody, and particularly former council, current board, and a special thank you to Woody14619a21:25
ivgalvezthank you all21:25
ivgalvezsee you21:25
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vi___woody is going to spain?21:30
vi___maemo world party at ivgalez house?21:31
keriohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WccfbPQNMbg21:38
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DocScrutinizer05vi___: a pretty brilliant idea :-)21:52
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: we should do a cssu party one day :D21:53
DocScrutinizer05that too21:53
* Woody14619a has been to Spain twice already...21:53
Woody14619a.oO(And London, and Germany, and France, and...)21:54
DocScrutinizer05there been times when I been @ spain twice a year21:54
DocScrutinizer05what I meant to say, I'd love to go there to join a maemo world party21:54
DocScrutinizer05in Tarifa it's nice weather even in December/January21:55
DocScrutinizer05at least compared to what I suffer here21:55
Woody14619aIs there a date on this party? :)21:57
qwazixDo you have to show your N900 to enter?21:58
merlin1991do you get free stuff for each n900 you present to the bouncer?22:01
Woody14619aWoot!  Double swag!22:05
Woody14619aFWIW: I often travel through Europe in July/August time frame.  So, got a while before that. :P22:08
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DocScrutinizer05anybody knows if mentalist traceur has a irc nick/account?23:08
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