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| Woody14619 | X-Fade: ping? :) | 17:52 |
|---|---|---|
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: when is the today meeting? | 18:21 |
| Woody14619 | To my understanding, there was to be a pre-meeting with X-Fade today. Baring that, Council should hold it's meeting at 18:00 UTC as normal | 18:23 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: due logs no premeeting | 20:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: still here | 20:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | i want to ask you somethin if u would have chance to talk to Xfade about future of apps4meego | 20:22 |
| Woody14619 | I was hoping X-Fade would be here for a pre-meeeting as discussed. He's been less than responsive this week. :( | 20:23 |
| Woody14619 | I'm open to questions about things, and will attempt to relay info where I can... What is the concern? | 20:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | what is the future? | 20:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | would it be closed as well? | 20:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | hosting? | 20:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | anyway to get as well some community guys permissions there? | 20:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | last time it was down for a really long time | 20:26 |
| Woody14619 | My understanding is that it's part of the servers that will be consolidated and handed off to the community when the legal entity forms, but I do not have 100% confirmation of that. | 20:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | ok | 20:29 |
| Woody14619 | I will add that to the list of questions for my next contact with Niels. Right now we're trying to get CC voting underway, but are hitting a wall on that even... | 20:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | but would be nice if u ask to be sure if u talk to him :P | 20:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: yeah, it's like everything falling apart | 20:30 |
| Woody14619 | That's what happens when Nokia stops paying people to do work for them... | 20:30 |
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| Woody14619 | X-Fade has volunteered some of his own time, but is frankly pinned a bit on this issue. There's lots going on there. Understand: Maemo is not the only set of Nokia servers they service, nor is the only set consolidating and/or going away. | 20:32 |
| djszapiN9 | we have been hearing the same for ages | 20:39 |
| djszapiN9 | do not worry, everything will be fine. | 20:39 |
| djszapiN9 | now, I really do worry. | 20:39 |
| djszapiN9 | and I will offer a machine as soon as I can. | 20:40 |
| djszapiN9 | but that machine will be held only for harmattan purposes with its own entity. | 20:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapiN9: it's not that we can do | 20:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapiN9: and it's bad idea to split maemo/harmattan | 20:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | a lot of good devs would stick to maemo | 20:41 |
| djszapiN9 | it is ok, it is their wish. | 20:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | okay | 20:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | i find it's not smart but can't say no | 20:42 |
| djszapiN9 | we cannot force people what they like spending their spare time with... | 20:42 |
| djszapiN9 | and we do not wanna either. | 20:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapiN9: the question is what u can provide/do alone? | 20:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | community is about community and work in community | 20:44 |
| djszapiN9 | it is for the community. | 20:44 |
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| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: how is it for community? | 20:45 |
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| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: how is it for community? | 20:45 |
| djszapi_ | I do not understand the question. | 20:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's like if you want to help you give something in | 20:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | but when u take control to you it's not to community | 20:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | u'll need new community | 20:46 |
| djszapi_ | I do not understand the problem | 20:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | and the question is if people will like the idea/want it/participate | 20:46 |
| djszapi_ | there is a harmattan council responsible for the new machine | 20:47 |
| djszapi_ | and for the community obs | 20:47 |
| djszapi_ | the council will give the opportunity to leisure time contributors to actually contribute. | 20:47 |
| djszapi_ | I do not see the problem, moreover it would solve a lot of long-time issues | 20:47 |
| djszapi_ | issues that were presented even when you were not around. | 20:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think it would end up you and rzr alone :( | 20:47 |
| djszapi_ | more than a year ago. | 20:47 |
| Woody14619 | and create new ones you do not forsee, because you do not see history or perspective. | 20:47 |
| djszapi_ | no | 20:48 |
| djszapi_ | it would end up whomever makes decent contribution. | 20:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: what do you mean me not around? | 20:48 |
| djszapi_ | just like in other communities. | 20:48 |
| djszapi_ | it will be based on meritocracy | 20:48 |
| djszapi_ | like the linux kernel | 20:48 |
| djszapi_ | mer | 20:48 |
| djszapi_ | qt | 20:48 |
| djszapi_ | webkit | 20:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's always end up with politics | 20:48 |
| djszapi_ | we have had the same problems as more than a year ago | 20:49 |
| djszapi_ | X-Fade having control over community stuff. | 20:49 |
| Woody14619 | so long as one person is willing/able to continue holding the reins, that system works. When that person goes away, the community dies with that person. | 20:49 |
| djszapi_ | and the people cannot help even if they offer their free time. | 20:49 |
| djszapi_ | and they are trustworthy | 20:49 |
| djszapi_ | do you know the history why we have the community repository in rzr's home? | 20:49 |
| Woody14619 | X-Fade != Council, btw... | 20:49 |
| djszapi_ | because the c-obs owners did not allow us to push the packages into the "Community Repository"! | 20:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: i'm with community from about 2009 and it it worked not bad | 20:50 |
| djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: most likely you did not know this. | 20:50 |
| djszapi_ | but that is the history | 20:50 |
| djszapi_ | contributors were not allowed to push packages into the community repository! | 20:50 |
| djszapi_ | that is why we established that in a home directory! | 20:50 |
| djszapi_ | this is an absolute no go. | 20:50 |
| djszapi_ | and unacceptable for many including me. | 20:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: it's just you see it from your point of view i think and i think you don't know whole history | 20:50 |
| * Woody14619 nods | 20:50 | |
| djszapi_ | and we would like to dismiss this operation in a community driven project with a meritocracy model. | 20:50 |
| djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: I was the proposal of the community repository | 20:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: and than would come other guys and tell you don't give them to push and they'll make new harmattan council as well :P | 20:51 |
| djszapi_ | you wanna know the history of it better? | 20:51 |
| djszapi_ | Please give up your generic arguing mode for this here. | 20:51 |
| djszapi_ | I am about to build something better. | 20:51 |
| djszapi_ | many people sweared a LOT about the Harmattan target on the community obs | 20:51 |
| Woody14619 | Nothing you've said is new djs | 20:51 |
| djszapi_ | this is factual and logged. | 20:51 |
| djszapi_ | me and rzr have made 700+ project | 20:52 |
| djszapi_ | more than 1000-2000 packages | 20:52 |
| djszapi_ | and still, we were unable to take a look at the Qt5 project | 20:52 |
| djszapi_ | when we struggled | 20:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: i never argue just to argue, but to explain somethin, same as you do from your side :P | 20:52 |
| djszapi_ | the critical bugreports are still there. | 20:52 |
| djszapi_ | we are unable to act. | 20:52 |
| djszapi_ | we are blocked! | 20:52 |
| djszapi_ | when I opened up the community repository | 20:53 |
| djszapi_ | I gave access to many people immediately. | 20:53 |
| Woody14619 | Zogg is frankly, correct on this. At best, you will branch off, and later have the same issues in your split. Worst, that split will cause the community to split, and in that way Harmattan will lose what few resources it has. | 20:53 |
| djszapi_ | when we established the harmattan group recently on gitorious, I have added many contributors without questions! | 20:53 |
| djszapi_ | do you see the difference? | 20:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: it's like archlinux vs gentoo :P | 20:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | aur is mess, while portage is clean and u have overlays | 20:53 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: please read what I wrote | 20:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | and everyone happy | 20:53 |
| djszapi_ | is it the same story what I did and what X-Fade did with us? | 20:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | u want to make a mess | 20:54 |
| djszapi_ | if you wanna belong to the harmattan group on gitorious, let me know. I would like to add you. | 20:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: it's not now, but when u'll have a lot of packages and people trying to push and no coolabration it would be mess or you'll stop giving access just to everyone | 20:54 |
| djszapi_ | same, if you wanna help with packaging on the community repository, please let me know. | 20:54 |
| djszapi_ | I would love to add you there as a maintainer. | 20:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | the point is that there would be only few poeple who would work on it anyway | 20:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | and it's not different from repo rzr have anyway | 20:55 |
| Woody14619 | I have no issue with someone making a new repository... and encouraging an overlay effect. | 20:55 |
| djszapi_ | it is not rzr's repo | 20:55 |
| djszapi_ | you do not see the big picture. | 20:55 |
| djszapi_ | nor the history. | 20:55 |
| djszapi_ | it is THE community repository. | 20:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | as one x-fade has may have like ovi store persmissions and wouldn't allow everyone | 20:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | and while yours wouldn't | 20:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | so except name what's the difference? | 20:55 |
| djszapi_ | why we had to stick with a home directory is the decision we were not even allowed to upload packages to the ex-"Community Repository". | 20:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: i see THE big picture, you don't | 20:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | you still wouldn't be allowed :P | 20:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | you make 10 councils you wouldn't get permissions | 20:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | you want to have permissions? turn off aegis and signing the kernel and bootloader | 20:57 |
| djszapi_ | except that we will have our own instance if I can manage the machine. | 20:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | so what's the difference? | 20:57 |
| djszapi_ | and of course community people will not be blocked to upload packages to the community repository. | 20:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't see it | 20:57 |
| djszapi_ | this will be a fairly trivial rule. | 20:57 |
| djszapi_ | a very big difference from the ground up. | 20:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | but u can upload to rzr's repo now(yeah yeah community one) so WHAT's the difference? | 20:58 |
| Woody14619 | Until someone commits something that screws things up, thinking it's the best thing since sliced cheese. | 20:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | yeah that's why aur in arch is mess | 20:58 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: of course that person would be taught | 20:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | with deprecated blocking and same stuff all over it :P | 20:58 |
| Woody14619 | Then you'll block them, and most "noobs"... eventually you will only accept eliets... and you're back at square one. | 20:58 |
| djszapi_ | and he would first need to show his quality in unstable, then testing, then stable. | 20:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: you can control 5 people or you can control 10 packages | 20:59 |
| djszapi_ | just like how you do in other projects anyways | 20:59 |
| djszapi_ | like Qt. | 20:59 |
| djszapi_ | KDE. | 20:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | but not a lot of packages and people, and it's not their fault | 20:59 |
| djszapi_ | Webkit. | 20:59 |
| djszapi_ | Linux. | 20:59 |
| djszapi_ | it is not any different. | 20:59 |
| djszapi_ | we have a seriously broken workflow here. | 20:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | i work on X and u do and we push together as i can't check all people if they work on it | 20:59 |
| djszapi_ | me and poor rzr have been putting man years into this project | 20:59 |
| Woody14619 | That much we agree on. | 20:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: in Linux? LOOOOOL | 20:59 |
| djszapi_ | and we are not even allowed to add a "foobar" configuration. | 20:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | you don't know the history | 20:59 |
| djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: I had been developing the linux for years professionally. | 21:00 |
| djszapi_ | but sure, I do not know. | 21:00 |
| djszapi_ | 2008-2010 | 21:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor | 21:00 |
| djszapi_ | actually I also worked from 2010-2012 | 21:00 |
| djszapi_ | on the harmattan kernel. | 21:00 |
| djszapi_ | but this is a sidetrack... | 21:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: sure u don't if you say in Linux. and as well in big projects they have meetings and they decide and they have plan and work on ONE PROJECt while harmattan is not one project and it's OS | 21:01 |
| Woody14619 | djszapi_: I'm Council... and can't add a configuration. No one outside of Nokia and/or Nemien can. | 21:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | and in any OS they have unstable and QA and stuff like that | 21:01 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: see? | 21:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | it never goes straight to repo | 21:01 |
| Woody14619 | Which is why we're trying to change that. | 21:01 |
| djszapi_ | that is what we need solution for, not promise. | 21:01 |
| djszapi_ | not really. | 21:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | as well to do this stuff you have to have permissions and all the stuff you don;t | 21:01 |
| djszapi_ | this is promise again just like one year ago | 21:01 |
| djszapi_ | many people are fed up with empty promises. | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | You don't know your history... | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | There was no promise last year... | 21:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: Nokia wouldn't give you a shit, they don't care. simple as that | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | There was a request, which the community turned down. | 21:02 |
| djszapi_ | I have been promised, trust me. | 21:02 |
| djszapi_ | 1) I was not aware of any requests | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | This case is a little different.... The severs are going away in 3 months... | 21:02 |
| djszapi_ | 2) Not me, rzr, and real harmattan contributors decided | 21:02 |
| djszapi_ | 3) I have been promised, yes. I have been, yes. | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | It wasn't just about Harmattan... | 21:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: that's your problem | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | By whom? | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | Who proimise you? | 21:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | you look only from your side | 21:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | like Estel | 21:03 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: I can tell in private. | 21:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | he thought he is real contributor and rzr not | 21:03 |
| djszapi_ | I would not like to get personal here. | 21:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | and you think you and rzr are and him not | 21:03 |
| djszapi_ | the point remains | 21:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | so what's the difference | 21:03 |
| djszapi_ | we have been hearing for over a year, it was going to be better. | 21:03 |
| djszapi_ | been there, done that. | 21:03 |
| Woody14619 | dj: please, tell me in public.. I can tell you, it was probably not anyone in Council. | 21:03 |
| djszapi_ | I personally made up my mind to try to make this work on my own. | 21:03 |
| djszapi_ | no matter if others disrespect my effort. | 21:03 |
| djszapi_ | to act for the community. | 21:03 |
| djszapi_ | I will do this for the community. | 21:04 |
| Woody14619 | And frankly, anyone promising that a year ago was not being honest... | 21:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: it's not for community, that's it | 21:04 |
| Woody14619 | But to hold OTHERS responsible for someone misrepresenting themselves a year ago is crazy | 21:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's to build new community when u in control for good or bad | 21:04 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: it was "someone" | 21:04 |
| djszapi_ | was not* | 21:04 |
| djszapi_ | and no, I would not like to name a person in public | 21:04 |
| djszapi_ | in fact since it was a private conversation. | 21:04 |
| djszapi_ | I should ask for request first. | 21:05 |
| djszapi_ | to be fair with that person. | 21:05 |
| djszapi_ | so either believe now, or call me a liar. | 21:05 |
| djszapi_ | and that is why the situation is so frustrating. | 21:05 |
| djszapi_ | we are being told again "it is going to be cool soon" | 21:05 |
| Woody14619 | As I said.. even if they said that, short of them being in charge AT Nokia, they had no autority to say it. | 21:05 |
| djszapi_ | "really, this time it will be different" | 21:05 |
| djszapi_ | "it will be really cool soon, not like other times" | 21:05 |
| djszapi_ | so I made up my mind to go my own way. | 21:06 |
| djszapi_ | and see if I can fix it, if others had not been able over a year. | 21:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: did they say before they discontinue Nokia? | 21:06 |
| djszapi_ | and I take all the offense I (we) may get. | 21:06 |
| Woody14619 | Again: You're judging what's going on now, not based on what's happening, but on your personal conversation with someone eles a year ago (who apparently didn't have the authority to speak it) | 21:06 |
| djszapi_ | I will try to push the community forward. | 21:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: man i told you 1000 times no one judges you and against you | 21:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | you take things to personal and see only black and white and only from your prospective | 21:07 |
| Woody14619 | I'm not asking you to not do that... I asking you to look at this effort now, see how it's not the same as before. | 21:07 |
| Woody14619 | A year ago there was funding from Nokia to keep servers running. Now there is not. | 21:07 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: we had a sprint in March | 21:07 |
| djszapi_ | in Darmstadt with the Plasma Active folks. | 21:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | i do like you and resect you, but you are just not looking straight | 21:08 |
| Woody14619 | That alone changes the fundimentals of what's going on. | 21:08 |
| djszapi_ | the same story has been said | 21:08 |
| djszapi_ | soon, we will have our own solution | 21:08 |
| djszapi_ | exactly the same. | 21:08 |
| djszapi_ | that was in March. | 21:08 |
| Woody14619 | No, it's not. | 21:08 |
| djszapi_ | let me find the link to the sprint. | 21:08 |
| djszapi_ | otherwise I will be called liar again. | 21:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | no one calls you liar | 21:08 |
| Woody14619 | IN MARCH NOKIA WAS STILL PAYING BILLS. | 21:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | can you listen | 21:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | you are like my GF | 21:08 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: do not care about Nokia. | 21:09 |
| Woody14619 | In March, Nokia had re-uped the contract an Nemien to fund the servers. | 21:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: and i was told N9 would have support at least 5 years and Nokia said it, so? | 21:09 |
| djszapi_ | we need a find a solution for the problem. | 21:09 |
| djszapi_ | either it is nokia or something else, it is details. | 21:09 |
| Woody14619 | You may not, but OTHERS do. | 21:09 |
| djszapi_ | and the nokia way seems to be long. | 21:09 |
| djszapi_ | it has always been long. | 21:09 |
| Woody14619 | That is what has changed.... | 21:09 |
| Woody14619 | The other attemps didn't work becuase the community wasn't behind it. People didn't back it. | 21:09 |
| djszapi_ | OTHERS do not do either in my environment | 21:10 |
| djszapi_ | I talked to. | 21:10 |
| Woody14619 | This time there IS support, because there is not the option of following the status quo | 21:10 |
| *** SD69 has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:10 | |
| djszapi_ | you can say again, I am a liar for saying so, and also my friends. | 21:10 |
| djszapi_ | but I can assure you that this is factual. | 21:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: but it's not relevant | 21:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | if you speak know to listen | 21:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: so u make repo and how it would help you | 21:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | you make own obs and how it would help you? | 21:11 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: put it this way: I wish you good luck with the server shift. | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's not like it's FOSS | 21:11 |
| djszapi_ | I will also try my way, and hopefully we do not even need to wait until December. | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's not KDE or WebKit | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's not linux | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | u can't fork it | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | you can't control it | 21:11 |
| djszapi_ | me and rzr would need full control anyways | 21:11 |
| djszapi_ | either way succeeds. | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | all u can is make a repo | 21:11 |
| Woody14619 | hello SD69. :) | 21:11 |
| djszapi_ | because we have made up the repository which needs to be maintained. | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | and contibute it to existing community | 21:11 |
| Woody14619 | Just catching up on the recent e-mails.... | 21:12 |
| djszapi_ | and the expertise is pretty much on our side. | 21:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | what's the point of new one and new council? | 21:12 |
| SD69 | hello | 21:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | how it would change anything? | 21:12 |
| djszapi_ | but anybody else could get access with willingness and trustworthiness. | 21:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | so u get repo and? | 21:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | you do it to contribute? good... so continue, why u need control of things wich is not real control | 21:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's just pseudo | 21:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | and only responsobility | 21:13 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: this is one topic. | 21:13 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: the another is that if my device breaks, I would like to get another one to continue the work on Qt5 for the community. | 21:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's not like u have acess and tools to control harmattan anyway | 21:14 |
| djszapi_ | but I will try to contact Quim about that as well. | 21:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | one more cobs would od nothing | 21:14 |
| djszapi_ | currently I have a broken screen'ish N9. | 21:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | quim? so what he can do? | 21:14 |
| djszapi_ | and see my email about; pretty worrying. | 21:14 |
| djszapi_ | people got devices for free to work on Qt5, but who helps me? | 21:14 |
| djszapi_ | I am the one doing everythin crazily. :) | 21:14 |
| djszapi_ | oh yeah, and Arto is at least testing what I do. That is great. | 21:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | how do you know they not working on it? | 21:15 |
| Woody14619 | djszapi_ Had you been around for CA, with the qualifications, you probably could have gotten one there. But that was outside your community blinders. | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh djszapi_ bashing the council? Alas some fun I have to miss, since it's dinner time now | 21:15 |
| Woody14619 | Saddly, the only devices left are all slated for the Coding Competition. | 21:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | he is not Doc | 21:15 |
| Woody14619 | Zogg: Yes, he has been.... | 21:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: it's the way he talks | 21:16 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: that is all the replies for a person who pushes Qt5 actually forward on Harmattan? :) | 21:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | he just not seeing whole picture and saying others not seeing | 21:16 |
| djszapi_ | Not too encouraging. | 21:16 |
| djszapi_ | but perhaps if I am gone, nobody will miss Qt5. | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a short advice: djszapi_ isn't known for polite wording, and it doesn't help to ask him about that | 21:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: so you do it? and what you want us to do about it? thank you. that's all we got and that's the reason you do it | 21:17 |
| Woody14619 | Zogg: I understand this... but trust me... After the "talks" we've had... He does in fact insult and attack. | 21:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | or there is other reason? | 21:17 |
| djszapi_ | not to mention I have done that effort out of my free time, and have not asked for devices like the 25 people in there who mostly do not even do anything. | 21:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | someone stopping you and how? | 21:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | or you need your repo to be called official community repo to make it cooler? | 21:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | how does it matter if it's X repo or Y repo if it's about work | 21:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | i dont get it | 21:17 |
| Woody14619 | djszapi_: I see... Would you prefer I buy you one? Or maybe I fly to Poland to wrestle one from one of the QT5 "winners" and send it to you? | 21:17 |
| Woody14619 | What exactly do you want us to do? | 21:18 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: to contact Nokia | 21:18 |
| Woody14619 | (This is what I asked earlier) | 21:18 |
| djszapi_ | what a normal council would do. | 21:18 |
| djszapi_ | to clarify this situation. | 21:18 |
| djszapi_ | if I am gone, Qt5 is pretty much gone. | 21:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: NOKIA DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT, and it's the problem for all of us | 21:18 |
| djszapi_ | is a device worth that for the maemo's future? | 21:18 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: please remain civil. | 21:18 |
| djszapi_ | let us not throw things at each other like "hey, you are attacking me". | 21:19 |
| Woody14619 | And ask them to what? Give us a device for you, which they have no more of? | 21:19 |
| djszapi_ | otherwise I need to leave. | 21:19 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: how do you *really* know they do not have more? | 21:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's so funny | 21:19 |
| Woody14619 | Because we've asked... several times when Quim was still employed there. | 21:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | he just don't listen | 21:19 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: I will ask Quim myself again. | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fine!!! | 21:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: ask Elop | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic | 21:20 |
| djszapi_ | I hoped for more help from the council, but this is again a different value. | 21:20 |
| djszapi_ | that I would like to represent with the harmattan council. | 21:20 |
| djszapi_ | in such cases, I would like to represent the community. | 21:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: can u listen for aminute? | 21:20 |
| djszapi_ | and provide as much help as possible. | 21:20 |
| Woody14619 | I'm doubtful that someone we just got introduced to at Nokia will be "Sure, fine, here's a device for you..." | 21:20 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: see my device program | 21:20 |
| djszapi_ | for blackberry. | 21:20 |
| djszapi_ | I was discussion overnights with RIM. | 21:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: if you would be called council why would you think you'll have opportunity to have device | 21:20 |
| djszapi_ | to get devices for the community. | 21:20 |
| djszapi_ | out of my free time. | 21:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's not council not giving you device | 21:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | the decision is up to nokia | 21:21 |
| djszapi_ | This is the kind of activity I hope for a council to do | 21:21 |
| djszapi_ | to help the community people to push the project forward. | 21:21 |
| Woody14619 | There WERE devices for this... just 6 months ago.... | 21:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | and nokia wouldn't do even if you declare yourself a king of lulapoo | 21:21 |
| Woody14619 | Over 100. Where were you then? | 21:21 |
| djszapi_ | that is my another issue why I think the harmattan council would be a good idea. We just think differently, but it is healthy. | 21:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: can you answer me? | 21:21 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: "someone" has publicly available contribution in the open. | 21:22 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: way more about Qt5 than most of the people gotten devices for Qt5 contribution. | 21:22 |
| djszapi_ | it is not untrackable, and all fake with my name. | 21:22 |
| Woody14619 | As I said earlier, had you applied for a CA device, given your qualifications and contributions, had you applied, you would have likely gotten it. | 21:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: so you are cool and they are bad, but how it changes situation? | 21:22 |
| Woody14619 | Why did you not apply? | 21:22 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: because I was unaware of it. | 21:22 |
| djszapi_ | I do not follow tmo. | 21:22 |
| djszapi_ | I am available through my email or irc. | 21:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: so it's your mistake and noone else | 21:23 |
| Woody14619 | Because you were SO focused in your tiny corner of the world, so Harmattan focused, that you missed it. | 21:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: you want people to send you email to beg you to apply to get a device? | 21:23 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: tiny corner? | 21:23 |
| djszapi_ | really? | 21:23 |
| Woody14619 | It was on the community mailing list. | 21:23 |
| djszapi_ | when helping tons of people out of my free time on #harmattan? | 21:23 |
| djszapi_ | and when I was continously contributing to Qt5? | 21:23 |
| djszapi_ | which is openly governed? | 21:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: so you do it for medalia? | 21:24 |
| djszapi_ | or KDE. | 21:24 |
| Woody14619 | You couldn't have missed it.... And it was highly discussed on irc. | 21:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's not the contribuion | 21:24 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: nobody told to me, hey you can apply for a device. | 21:24 |
| djszapi_ | anyway, I did not feel the need for the need for such a device earlier either | 21:24 |
| djszapi_ | because my device was not broken | 21:24 |
| djszapi_ | so I did not look for opportunities either | 21:24 |
| Woody14619 | It was on the Council blog... in #maemo, here, lots of places.... | 21:24 |
| djszapi_ | but seeing the big list of people doing nothing | 21:24 |
| djszapi_ | and devices distributed. | 21:24 |
| djszapi_ | and I am working like hell. | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | to get this project forward. | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | I feel sad, admittedly. | 21:25 |
| Woody14619 | I agree... but what you want is for us to undo the past.... | 21:25 |
| Woody14619 | Which we can not do. | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | nope | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | what I would personally do is to ask Nokia. | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | nothing more you can do. | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *YAAAAAAAAWN* | 21:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | and they asked | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | but it is important for the project to keep a dude around for Qt5. | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | but please do not do that. | 21:25 |
| djszapi_ | I will ask Quim myself. | 21:26 |
| Woody14619 | Which we can do, but frankly it's going to be a hard sell.... | 21:26 |
| djszapi_ | the problem is not the hard sell with the council's approach. | 21:26 |
| Woody14619 | Especially given the attitude you've taken. You're not exactly winning friends. | 21:26 |
| djszapi_ | but the intention. | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | YES DO THAT!!!! ASK QUIM!!! | 21:26 |
| djszapi_ | you denied this help request in the first place. | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic!° | 21:26 |
| kerio | who's quim? | 21:26 |
| Woody14619 | denied when? | 21:26 |
| SD69 | do we have council business to address? | 21:26 |
| Woody14619 | You mailed about this 5 HOURS ago... | 21:26 |
| Woody14619 | Yes.. we do.. | 21:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | kerio: he was one from nokia who made all the community communication | 21:27 |
| kerio | i see | 21:27 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: no, I emailed about this more than 5 hours ago. | 21:27 |
| Woody14619 | So... Lets start the meeting shall we? | 21:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | ok | 21:27 |
| djszapi_ | but that is not the point; the point is that I got insulting questions. | 21:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | yay for meeting | 21:27 |
| kerio | meeting! meeting! | 21:27 |
| djszapi_ | meanwhile this seems to be a straight-forward conclusion to me. | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OT | 21:27 |
| djszapi_ | but again, please do not do that. I will sort out myself. | 21:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: you said insulting things and questons, so? | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OT | 21:27 |
| Woody14619 | #begin Maemo Council Meeting | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | We have a few quick topics: | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | 1> Elections | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | 2> CC elections | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | 3> Bylaws work | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | 4> Misc. | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | One topic 1: Elections | 21:28 |
| SD69 | I like single token approach - sounds good to me | 21:28 |
| SD69 | thks woody | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | Elections were annouced. There will be elections in the upcoming month. | 21:29 |
| Woody14619 | Nominations for new members starts this weekend.... | 21:29 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 hides | 21:29 | |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer | 21:29 |
| Woody14619 | For full information, see the blog post: http://maemo.org/community/council/maemo_elections-september_2012/ | 21:29 |
| kerio | i vote for him | 21:29 |
| Woody14619 | The election will be for both the next Council. In parallel ther ewill be a second voting instance for the formation of the Board of directors from a separate slate of candidates. | 21:30 |
| Woody14619 | (for the new legal entity discussed on TMO, ML, here in IRC, etc.) | 21:31 |
| Woody14619 | Topic 2: CC elections | 21:31 |
| Woody14619 | I corrected a script for the voting machine to allow multiple elections to run off the same single token. | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ | 21:32 |
| Woody14619 | This has been forwarded to X-Fade, along with all the tables needed to start the election. | 21:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: good :P | 21:32 |
| Woody14619 | I ran a test on my own server succesfully, and it seems all is good. | 21:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: any backup if the no reply from X-Fade ? | 21:32 |
| Woody14619 | I was hopefull that he would have replied by now and set out tokens. | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I volunteer for receiving test ballot email | 21:33 |
| Woody14619 | Currently no. The problem is we don't have an e-mail database of the existing electorate (and/or Karma to filter by) | 21:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think there should be backup plan | 21:34 |
| Woody14619 | I can setup a machine with the votes, and even create a self-registration page. But there would be no way to check membership. | 21:34 |
| Woody14619 | If you have a solution to that zogg, I'm all ears... | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's hardly any | 21:35 |
| Woody14619 | exactly... | 21:35 |
| Woody14619 | Short of hand-validating each person/e-mail address vs an account. | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo.org has a page where karma is listed descending order | 21:35 |
| Woody14619 | Which for 300+ electorates is an issue. | 21:36 |
| Woody14619 | Yes, Doc, but there's not an e-mail there, and no way to validate that someone is who they say they are. | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no way to get access to email addr without help from 'inside' | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alternative: tmo-pm :-S | 21:37 |
| Woody14619 | I could setup a page to allow people to register, check that against the list, and setup a list. Then we could have one organizer send tokens via PMs... | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not all are registered to tmo | 21:38 |
| Woody14619 | But that requires someone to handle the PMs, and raw tokens for each voter... potential for abuse... | 21:38 |
| Woody14619 | And not all are on TMO as Doc notes. :) | 21:38 |
| Woody14619 | So.. Let's see what happens... Worst case, we can look at alternatives... but... | 21:38 |
| Woody14619 | Hopefully X-Fade will see this, do the small bit of work left to do, and send out tokens this weekend.... If not, we can see about alternatives. | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess we shouldn't "waste" time for a plan B that's hard to come up with, unless X-Fade at least vanishes from this very chan | 21:39 |
| Woody14619 | Topic 3: Bylaws | 21:39 |
| Woody14619 | SD69: You noted you needed to update the bylaws to include material about future elections (karma computation, etc) | 21:40 |
| Woody14619 | We really need to get that done and out there, as nominations start next week. | 21:40 |
| SD69 | I'll do it this weekend | 21:40 |
| SD69 | they won't mention karma by name | 21:40 |
| Woody14619 | I think we can call it that, still, and even swipe how it's computed from the web page, but just replace "TMO" with "the designated community forum" and "Thanks" with "Thanks, Likes, or a similar mechanism" | 21:41 |
| SD69 | are we sure we will have a community forum? | 21:42 |
| SD69 | and all the components tha are in the present karma? | 21:42 |
| Woody14619 | We will at the very least have a facebook forum.... | 21:42 |
| kerio | ew, facebook? | 21:42 |
| Woody14619 | We already have control of the fan page on FB. | 21:42 |
| djszapi_ | facebook... | 21:43 |
| SD69 | eww | 21:43 |
| Woody14619 | I agree... but again, that's a worst case. | 21:43 |
| Woody14619 | I'm sure, if faced with that, someone will spring to the rescue and setup something basic enough to be a forum (maybe even me. ;) | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I had a (not really) cursory look at bylaws, and I missed something I thouhgt was essential: Hildon Foundation planning to take responsibility for Nokia (c) stuff, like the base repos etc | 21:44 |
| Woody14619 | I"m just saying, make the wording vuage enough to cover the contingency of having something other than TMO. | 21:44 |
| Woody14619 | The wording is there, but generic. And it does need a touch up on that reguard. (Noted in the TMO thread by jaylst) | 21:45 |
| kerio | please add pdiff support to the new repos | 21:45 |
| Woody14619 | kerio, if we're lucky, we'll get the current repos as is. And then hopfully will be able to put key people in charge of pieces to fix and add support for such things. | 21:46 |
| kerio | also, can't we refer to "thanks, likes or a similar mechanism" just as "karma"? | 21:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | thanks is not good idea | 21:46 |
| Woody14619 | Karma is a lot more than that... | 21:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | as todays "noobs" thanking ecah other for spaming and lol posts :P | 21:46 |
| Woody14619 | Karma includes garage work, check in transactions, and lots more. | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wiki edits | 21:47 |
| Woody14619 | You can, in fact, have lots of Karma without ever being on TMO. | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all karma up for wiki spammers ;-P | 21:47 |
| Woody14619 | :) | 21:47 |
| Woody14619 | Reguardless, we want to copy most of that in place, just make the wording vuage enough to cover the bases if some of it goes away or chagnes form. | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "currently this consists of: ...." | 21:48 |
| Woody14619 | SD69: If you want someone to bounce things off of, please feel free to mail me. I'll be able to check and reply to mail most of the weekend | 21:48 |
| SD69 | woody14619: OK | 21:49 |
| Woody14619 | Well, Bylaws need a bit more of an authorative tone. So, more like "From X done in Y (if available)." | 21:49 |
| Woody14619 | But yes, the same idea... | 21:49 |
| Woody14619 | And finally, topic 4: Misc. :) | 21:50 |
| SD69 | Hildon Foundation does not currently exist - you can't have an external reference | 21:50 |
| SD69 | in the bylaws | 21:50 |
| SD69 | Misc. - we need someone to handle bank account, and preferably donations too | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry? | 21:51 |
| Woody14619 | Doh! Forgot about that. | 21:51 |
| Woody14619 | Yes.. I can attempt that if need be. But my understanding was we needed to get the foundation started before the account could be made. | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bank account: muuuuch fun | 21:51 |
| Woody14619 | And I'll need papers from that in order to start the other, yes? | 21:52 |
| SD69 | We should offer it to Ivan, but he has been doing so much other work, I understand if he is not interested | 21:52 |
| Woody14619 | I assume my check for startup costs hasn't gotten there quite yet... I mailed it Wed, so... 2 days may not have show up yet. | 21:52 |
| Woody14619 | I would be happy to be a fall-back in that case. | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'll need an account with multiple signing persons | 21:53 |
| SD69 | woody14619: thanks. I'll get an IRS Tax ID No. | 21:53 |
| Woody14619 | The only two of us close enough to each other to multi-sign would be SD69 and myself... | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: that's why I said fuuuun | 21:53 |
| Woody14619 | We're only, what... 300 miles apart? | 21:54 |
| SD69 | yes, I hope there is still a bank with branches in both WNY and WPA | 21:54 |
| Woody14619 | Maybe less? | 21:54 |
| SD69 | Less - my parents live in Jamestown, NY | 21:54 |
| Woody14619 | I have a property in Angelica, not far from there. (Where I weekend actually, until October) | 21:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | i hope all this wouldn't make it more about politics afte foundations as there are too much already :P | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | That's part of why we're keeping Council and Board separatly, Zogg. | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | But frankly, as already noted, all things are political. | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | OK.. So misc? :) | 21:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | and it's mostly the worst time for that | 21:56 |
| Woody14619 | Council received e-mail, essentially on the same lines as the topic of conversation before the meeting.... | 21:56 |
| SD69 | I guess X-Fade is awol on community OBS as well? | 21:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: ? | 21:56 |
| Woody14619 | Has been for some time actually... | 21:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | what email | 21:56 |
| Woody14619 | Essentially your discusison pre-meeting, in e-mail form. | 21:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: oh the harmattan foundation? | 21:57 |
| SD69 | I haven't seen a community OBS meeting on #maemo-meeting logs in some time | 21:57 |
| djszapi_ | I will try to set up a new instance fwiw. | 21:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | SD69: as there were no discussion :P | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | sd69: Yes... since Nokia cut funding, he's not been active on that project. | 21:57 |
| djszapi_ | he has not been before that either... | 21:57 |
| djszapi_ | we still have one year old bugs. | 21:58 |
| djszapi_ | critical ones. | 21:58 |
| Woody14619 | djs: This is a non-Harmattan project... | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OT | 21:58 |
| SD69 | I'd like us to hold on to your voting script so we can have elections in new entity w/o depending on X-Fade | 21:58 |
| Woody14619 | Agreed.... That's all open. The part we lack is the e-mail database... | 21:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | SD69: that's what i said plan B is haveto | 21:59 |
| Woody14619 | And way to authenticate against Maemo.org | 21:59 |
| Woody14619 | If we had either of those, we could easily setup a separate registration system. | 21:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: is it TMO accounts or maemo.org? | 21:59 |
| Woody14619 | Maemo.org actually.... | 21:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | so reggie wouldnt help here | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ZogG_laptop: tmo is basically irrelevant | 21:59 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: what project is this? | 22:00 |
| Woody14619 | Sadly, no. TMO is but one component. | 22:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: voting | 22:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | for CC and than Council/Board | 22:00 |
| Woody14619 | djs: The OBS project we were talking about the combined OBS project, creating a single OBS for Fremantle, Harmattan, (and maybe Diablo) | 22:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: any volontures for council/board already? | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 22:01 |
| SD69 | Tim Samoff volunteered for the Board | 22:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | SD69: nick? | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | We had one pre-mature self-nomination for a Board position. But formal nominations dont' start till next week | 22:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | what about mr E. :P | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | Again, nominations start next week. | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | Join/check the community mailing list to watch the action. | 22:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: if i nominate you, would you be grumpy as board as well? | 22:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: i'm on list | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | On that note: Jaffa has volunteered to play refere in the ML again | 22:02 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: creating where? | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm undecided about board, i'd reject any council nomination | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | And Mr. C has agreed to take on doing the wiki page again. | 22:02 |
| SD69 | not sure about nick? | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | djs: Creating on an independant set of boxes at Nemien. | 22:03 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: please use my full nick name. | 22:03 |
| djszapi_ | with or without confidential data? | 22:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | SD69: just checked it, no idea who is he | 22:03 |
| Woody14619 | djszapi_: it was setup to pull the confidential packages off of an existing server | 22:04 |
| SD69 | he was on council a couple of years ago | 22:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | SD69: Tim? | 22:05 |
| Woody14619 | stskeeps and javispedro were active with working on it, using SB2 and doing cross-compilin | 22:05 |
| djszapi_ | I have another important question, but I will ask after the meeting because I do not know if off-topic. | 22:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: it's misc now, so shoot | 22:05 |
| djszapi_ | sb2 is a big no go for Harmattan | 22:05 |
| SD69 | ZogG: could be | 22:05 |
| Woody14619 | djszapi_: stskeeps and javispedro would disagree with that.... | 22:05 |
| djszapi_ | they do not do the packaging for Harmattan... | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | i don't want to get into a discussion with djszapi, but sb2 has succesfully built most of harmattan as testcase on each release | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh? they don't? | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | it's just that somebody needs to take the effort to do something about it in a OBS setting | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in my book javispedro built some packages | 22:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: btw i have a question. | 22:07 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: there are several issues with sb2, but let us discuss the technical details later. | 22:07 |
| Stskeeps | ZogG_laptop: i'd love to stay but i've just come home from a business trip and i should spend time with my wife instead of sitting on irc. tomorrow? | 22:07 |
| SD69 | stskeeps: do Mer and Maemo need to confer on cOBS | 22:07 |
| SD69 | ? | 22:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: for now cobs uses source on it's own server, is there option to make it optonal to pull from git/svn rather than cobs itself? would be hard to integrate? | 22:08 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 waves at Stskeeps | 22:08 | |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: ok, later | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | about time for dinner | 22:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: liar, u said it was lunch time | 22:09 |
| Woody14619 | thanks for the input stskeeps. We do need to chat some time, after elections maybe? | 22:09 |
| Woody14619 | Ok... | 22:09 |
| Woody14619 | so, any other misc topics for Council? | 22:09 |
| djszapi_ | most importantly harmattan does not officially support sb2 | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any other pressing topic? | 22:09 |
| djszapi_ | so it is presumably a hack to get some "consistency" with other systems which do, so kinda violation of the official support. | 22:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | there is no offial support for harmattan anymore | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | SD69: as i've stated before, we're (community wise) at a state where we won't get anything done for free for us and the load that each community generates needs to be covered by that community. We have in the past done a non-sb2 accelerated debian package cross compilation that people are more than welcome to take. | 22:10 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: the question what I was about to ask that: how do you know that if the server shift will be successful? | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | SD69: Mer COBS is coming but it will not be having harmattan targets at first as it's too much load compared to who's investing into it. When we have hildon foundation, it's much easier to deal with that topic | 22:11 |
| Woody14619 | We don't.... | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ cya | 22:11 |
| Woody14619 | We are attempting to do everything in our power to make it work. But frankly, there are no guarantees. | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | SD69: and yes, let's keep on having the sync meetings | 22:12 |
| djszapi_ | so you cannot again say we only need to wait a bit, and then everything will be fine. | 22:12 |
| SD69 | stskeeps: will do | 22:12 |
| Woody14619 | djszapi_: Nobody, short of someone will a few million to throw at this project, can do that.... | 22:13 |
| djszapi_ | this is why I decided to try from a distinct angle (as well). | 22:14 |
| Woody14619 | djszapi_: All I can offer is that we're closer than we've been before, and frankly, there's a real-life fire going to keep the preasure on. | 22:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: having title of council is not making you wizard with all power. | 22:14 |
| Woody14619 | Which is all fine and good. I just ask that you don't do so at the impetiment of the rest of the community. | 22:15 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: the community has been in such a situation for over a year. | 22:16 |
| djszapi_ | that is why the current effort is needed. | 22:16 |
| Woody14619 | No... It has not... | 22:16 |
| djszapi_ | oh really? | 22:16 |
| djszapi_ | so my one year old bug is fixed, I just do not see it? :) | 22:16 |
| Woody14619 | Until 2 months ago, there was perpetual funding from Nokia. If nothing happened, things would remain as they are. | 22:16 |
| djszapi_ | and we got permissions to take a look at the bug, we just did not realize? :) | 22:16 |
| Woody14619 | I'm not talking about bugs. | 22:16 |
| Woody14619 | Bugs != a fire | 22:16 |
| Woody14619 | If it didn't work a year ago, servers would still be on. Buggy, sure.. but on. | 22:17 |
| Woody14619 | If things don't work this time, NOTHING exists in 3 months. | 22:17 |
| Woody14619 | I call that different. | 22:17 |
| djszapi_ | you can, but we do not have more guarantee than back then | 22:18 |
| djszapi_ | I have been always told just wait a bit, and things were going to change. | 22:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: and few bugs from maemo critical ones were not fixed till people from community did and made xssu | 22:18 |
| Woody14619 | Again, I never claimed to "guarantee" anything. I said we have a better chance this time, because we must succed. | 22:18 |
| djszapi_ | to be honest, the whole c-obs is a blackbox for the community | 22:19 |
| djszapi_ | it is not even documented how it is supposed to work. | 22:19 |
| djszapi_ | for users! | 22:19 |
| Woody14619 | K.. Seeing not further topics? | 22:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | than do documention help users | 22:19 |
| djszapi_ | I always felt the need for succeeding. | 22:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: i think that's it | 22:19 |
| Woody14619 | #end Maemo Council meeting | 22:19 |
| djszapi_ | it is not any different this time. | 22:19 |
| djszapi_ | I have always wanted the project win. | 22:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: don;t forget elase about apps4meego | 22:19 |
| djszapi_ | kinda time-agnostic. | 22:20 |
| SD69 | bye every1 | 22:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | bye | 22:20 |
| Woody14619 | I will note it Zogg. Hopefully my assumed answer is correct, but I will not know for sure until I chat with them. | 22:20 |
| Woody14619 | thanks sd69. :) | 22:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | thank you | 22:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | and night everyone | 22:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | or whatever time is it there you have | 22:22 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: we always had promises. | 22:23 |
| djszapi_ | this time the promise is the Nokia takeover. | 22:23 |
| Woody14619 | Feel as you wish.... I will not argue with you over this. | 22:23 |
| djszapi_ | we would probably believe this if it had not been happening for over a year. | 22:24 |
| djszapi_ | in different forms. | 22:24 |
| Woody14619 | Which part of "I will not argue with you over this" did you not read? | 22:24 |
| djszapi_ | not to mention, it is not an accident the packagers are mostly me and rzr. | 22:26 |
| djszapi_ | we have seen many people frigthened away by this c-obs setup, clearly swearing on #harmattan by its setup. | 22:26 |
| Woody14619 | One word of advice: Next time you ask a body politic to ask for something on your behalf, you may get a better reply if you don't insult and argue with them about every topic under the sun while doing so. | 22:27 |
| djszapi_ | most of them just left after the first tries. | 22:27 |
| djszapi_ | I would appreciate remaning civil. | 22:28 |
| djszapi_ | remaining* | 22:28 |
| djszapi_ | so we lost tons of people for our community due to the c-obs situation. | 22:28 |
| djszapi_ | we had at least 8-10 packagers in the beginning for the community repository. | 22:29 |
| djszapi_ | speaking of javispedro and c-obs, he was actually the one few weeks ago collecting the issues with it on his page how much it sucks. | 22:29 |
| Woody14619 | That was civil.... You seem to misinterpret someone giving you (valid) criticism as being uncivil. Whle you yourself devolve into incivilty easily. | 22:29 |
| Woody14619 | I would encourage you to have a talk with someone here... Estel_ I think the two of you would hit it off.... Or kill each other. I'm not sure which. Reguardless, have a good day/night. I'm off. | 22:30 |
| * djszapi_ checks if there is code of conduct for council members | 22:32 | |
| Woody14619 | Lol... Yes.. It's the same one you have as a volunteer. | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is a meeting channel, usually not appropriate for <ACTION>, particularly not for random thoughts expressed in <ACTION> | 22:33 |
| djszapi_ | Woody14619: I really do not see where an insult occured. | 22:37 |
| *** Woody14619 has quit IRC | 22:37 | |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: and a lot of people were scared by aegis btw :P | 22:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | more people than by cobs :P | 22:40 |
| djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: disagree | 22:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | google it :P | 22:41 |
| djszapi_ | most of the people do not even need to care about the security. | 22:41 |
| djszapi_ | it just works for them. | 22:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | not be able to change system packages | 22:41 |
| djszapi_ | nothing proves that better than 700+ project in the community repository | 22:41 |
| djszapi_ | so over 1000-2000 packages. | 22:41 |
| djszapi_ | without /any/ security issues. | 22:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | i mean not just port and repackage | 22:41 |
| djszapi_ | you do not need to think of that system change if you cannot even package your stuff with c-obs.... | 22:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | i managed to package | 22:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | it took me weeks | 22:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | and i didn't like it | 22:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | but as i see for most maemo hackers with bugs they fixed in maemo that nokia didn't and updates and changes and addons | 22:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | what stopped them was aegis | 22:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | and apps are important but smooth OS and updates is important as well | 22:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | so please | 22:45 |
| djszapi_ | you cannot fix aegis | 22:45 |
| djszapi_ | community obs can be fixed | 22:45 |
| djszapi_ | also, you use inception anyways | 22:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | yes but it's not user friendly | 22:46 |
| djszapi_ | so I do not understand the problem. | 22:46 |
| djszapi_ | aegis issue fixed | 22:46 |
| djszapi_ | !next | 22:46 |
| djszapi_ | community obs has never been solved. | 22:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | and? | 22:46 |
| djszapi_ | and we were blocked with kdelibs for months? | 22:47 |
| djszapi_ | and we have been blocked with qt5 for weeks already? | 22:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | noone stops you from creating own repo | 22:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | like it was in maemo | 22:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | people did it and offered others to use it | 22:47 |
| djszapi_ | I will create my own OBS instance once I can get a machine. | 22:47 |
| djszapi_ | do not worry about that. | 22:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | good | 22:47 |
| djszapi_ | the community repository will also be ported | 22:47 |
| djszapi_ | it will not stay on c-obs by that time. | 22:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | good | 22:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | so? | 22:48 |
| djszapi_ | there is no so. | 22:48 |
| djszapi_ | this is the idea. | 22:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | good | 22:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | i support it | 22:48 |
| djszapi_ | which was offended here the whole day. | 22:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | no | 22:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | yours was to make it another council and more politicis | 22:49 |
| djszapi_ | sure | 22:50 |
| djszapi_ | someone would need to decide over the machine. | 22:50 |
| djszapi_ | and since it would be my initiation I would for sure like to have right for that. | 22:50 |
| djszapi_ | I do not see the problem? | 22:51 |
| djszapi_ | not to mention, I would support contributors. If they need devices for a serious contribution like Qt5 for moving the project forward, they would have my full support. | 22:52 |
| djszapi_ | just like how I launched the blackberry device program. | 22:52 |
| djszapi_ | there are fundamental value distinctions here. | 22:52 |
| djszapi_ | which better not to mix up because one will call other "insulting". | 22:52 |
| djszapi_ | which is not too civil unfortunately, but can happen. | 22:52 |
| djszapi_ | it is not worth it. | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, please take it elsewhere | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably everybody in here got his own private repo, but nobody except you is bitching about it so much | 23:12 |
| djszapi_ | we have been discussing community, not private stuff. | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're definitely NOT community | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're maybe, just maybe, part of community | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you're not representing community | 23:14 |
| djszapi_ | yes, I do. | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that won't change whatever council you instantiate | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so definitely, take it elsewhere! | 23:15 |
| kerio | besides, gtk > qt anyway | 23:16 |
| djszapi_ | kerio: it is not about qt or gtk. | 23:16 |
| djszapi_ | it is about a community work. | 23:17 |
| djszapi_ | and the enormous amount of time I wasted from my life along with rzr to use this crappy c-obs instance. | 23:17 |
| djszapi_ | other people expressed this a bit more radically on #harmattan along the months. | 23:17 |
| djszapi_ | kerio: fwiw, gtk2 is as much blocked as qt5 currently. | 23:18 |
| djszapi_ | on the community obs. | 23:18 |
| djszapi_ | kerio: nobody knows why. | 23:18 |
| djszapi_ | not even gtk developers, or even us packagers having somewhat expertise about c-obs. | 23:19 |
| djszapi_ | kerio: just to show not speaking out of context: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=gtk%2B2.0&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard | 23:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: how you don't get, BB device you got coz it is still supported | 23:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | nokia doesn't support harmattan | 23:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | u can do anything you want but there are no support or devices from nokia | 23:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | u may get replacement for urs as you got it from nokia or bought but it wouldb be personal | 23:21 |
| djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: I did not get any BB devices. | 23:21 |
| djszapi_ | I think you confuse me with someone else... | 23:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: u said about bb earlier | 23:22 |
| * djszapi_ has never said to have gotten a BB device... | 23:22 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, he can NOT do what he wants. He can NOT bitch here about council allegedly not supporting him. Council knows situation about devices, and if he wants to talk to Quim personally he THE FSCK DOES that and stops bitching here | 23:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | or what ever u got from rim to help them with qt on bb | 23:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: lol | 23:24 |
| djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: I got exactly nothing. | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and we do care exactly zero | 23:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: so? | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you think you can crank up another DDP program, FINE! just DO IT | 23:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | some people and devs who made free apps people use daily bought devices themselves for own money | 23:26 |
| djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: so you were wrong. | 23:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'm not dev or contributor but i never got n900 or n9 | 23:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | i got n950 after but it was akward and only coz noone almost participate | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | take that to a private query! NOW! | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | both of you! | 23:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: ? | 23:30 |
| *** SD69 has quit IRC | 23:41 | |
| *** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC | 23:55 | |
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