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| merlin1991 | shouldn't something be happening now? | 16:17 |
|---|---|---|
| ZogG_laptop | wht time is it? | 16:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | utc i mean | 16:19 |
| merlin1991 | utc? nfc | 16:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | 13:19 Friday (GMT) - Time in Coordinated Universal Time | 16:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | it should start at 15 afaik and 18 afaik | 16:19 |
| merlin1991 | what's @ 18 ? | 16:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | mcoucil meeting | 16:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | council meeting* | 16:21 |
| merlin1991 | well @ 15 I'll probably will be far away from irc | 16:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | =( | 16:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | what is schedualed for 15? | 16:23 |
| merlin1991 | party with X-Fade | 16:24 |
| merlin1991 | but somehow I had the feeling it should be cet | 16:24 |
| merlin1991 | ZogG_laptop: or did you mean what I have scheduled for 15? | 16:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | now i want to know both | 16:26 |
| merlin1991 | probably drinks :D | 16:27 |
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| merlin1991 | I'm on holiday after all | 16:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | merlin1991: drink for me as well :P | 16:37 |
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| merlin1991 | hm despite all odds im here, nothing happening though | 18:02 |
| SD69 | hello | 18:04 |
| X-Fade | Hi | 18:04 |
| ivgalvez | hi | 18:04 |
| ivgalvez | X-Fade merlin1991 how is the transition of some administrative rights on repositories going? | 18:06 |
| X-Fade | I added merlin1991 to the admins group in midgard and he should be able to promote/delete packages. | 18:07 |
| * merlin1991 checks | 18:07 | |
| ivgalvez | what about granting maintenance? | 18:07 |
| ivgalvez | for example, today marmistrz reports problems with that: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1258555#post1258555 | 18:07 |
| X-Fade | The server is still a shared server for Nokia things, so that is a bit tricky. | 18:08 |
| ivgalvez | regarding voting mechanism, how difficult would it be to set up new votings in the near future? | 18:10 |
| merlin1991 | X-Fade: I still don't see any buttons to promote/delete packages | 18:10 |
| X-Fade | merlin1991: Hmm that is really strange. | 18:11 |
| ivgalvez | we have approaching new Councli election, voting to approve by-laws document and coding competition that woud need to set up the system | 18:11 |
| X-Fade | I can setup an election for the council. | 18:14 |
| X-Fade | How would the voting for the by-laws work? | 18:14 |
| ivgalvez | I think a simple yes or no would be enough | 18:15 |
| ivgalvez | sort of referndum | 18:15 |
| ivgalvez | we could do that at the same time than Council election to avoid wasting time | 18:15 |
| ivgalvez | if that is possible at all | 18:15 |
| X-Fade | Need to check if it can do single instances too. | 18:17 |
| X-Fade | I think so. | 18:17 |
| ivgalvez | that would be great, then the remaining voting problem might be Coding Competiton | 18:18 |
| ivgalvez | if you are not able to set it up, is it possible to gran t permission to anyone else to do it? | 18:18 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, just need to see if the voting software isn't modified so that the other forms of voting don't work anymore. | 18:20 |
| ivgalvez | Coding competition end is approaching I think September 10th | 18:21 |
| ivgalvez | while Concil and by-laws could be organised for beginning of October | 18:21 |
| ivgalvez | I hope it's suitable for you | 18:22 |
| X-Fade | Need to see how that fits in as I'm traveling that week | 18:23 |
| X-Fade | But maybe I can prepare some things this week already. | 18:23 |
| ivgalvez | great | 18:23 |
| ivgalvez | please send me an email if there is any problem | 18:24 |
| ivgalvez | another question, do you think it would be possible to grant more administrative rights to merlin1991 or to add more administrators to the tema? | 18:24 |
| ivgalvez | team? | 18:25 |
| ivgalvez | we are running out of time to start the transition | 18:25 |
| X-Fade | What kind of administrative rights are we talking about? | 18:25 |
| SD69 | I'd like lma to be able to start administering the diablo repos | 18:27 |
| ivgalvez | whatever thatcould be possible to ease the transition. I don't know, Wiki administration, Downloads section, IRC, autobuilder... | 18:28 |
| ivgalvez | administration of repositories applies to all repos? (freemantle, diablo...) | 18:29 |
| ivgalvez | then adding lma to the list of administrators would help | 18:29 |
| ivgalvez | however we first need to see merlin1991 permissions working | 18:29 |
| X-Fade | It would also be good to know where the services will be hosted. | 18:30 |
| X-Fade | I guess figuring that out is one of the first things we should do. | 18:30 |
| SD69 | X-Fade: all thought all hosting was being moved to Nemein? | 18:31 |
| SD69 | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1230732&postcount=111 | 18:31 |
| X-Fade | SD69: Yeah, but that is not all done. | 18:32 |
| X-Fade | SD69: So everything runs at the old location still. | 18:33 |
| ivgalvez | We'll contact Nokia about that thenç | 18:33 |
| SD69 | Is there an eta for completion? | 18:33 |
| X-Fade | SD69: No, there have been a lot of issues due to people at Nokia leaving. | 18:35 |
| ivgalvez | you probably don't even know who to speak with each day, it's really pity | 18:35 |
| X-Fade | ivgalvez: Yes, I have for instance a lot of ssl certificates which expire/have expired and I have no-one who can extend them for me. | 18:36 |
| SD69 | Have you received the three servers from Nokia on behalf of maemo.org? - http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1227030&postcount=28 | 18:36 |
| X-Fade | No, that has not happened. | 18:37 |
| SD69 | oh boy... | 18:37 |
| SD69 | X-Fade: would it helped if council followed up with Nokia, or might we confuse matters more if we did that? | 18:38 |
| X-Fade | SD69: I hope that Nokia is willing to support the community in that way. A lof of stuff has happened lately. | 18:39 |
| SD69 | X-Fade: Right, I think we would like to get those 3 servers sooner rather than later, because we might not be able to get them later with all the changes going on | 18:41 |
| SD69 | Also, so we know we at least have the hw we need come end of 2012 | 18:41 |
| X-Fade | There are not a whole lot of people left. | 18:41 |
| ivgalvez | That's right, and we should be able to administrate them with a pool of volunteers so we can move the resources when needed | 18:42 |
| X-Fade | Yes, that is why I think we need to have a plan where to host maemo.org after the end of the year. | 18:43 |
| X-Fade | And how to finance the hosting etc. | 18:43 |
| SD69 | X-Fade: I am assuming Nemein, or do you mean physical location? | 18:44 |
| ivgalvez | the problem with that decision is that first we need to vote for by-laws and form legal entity | 18:44 |
| ivgalvez | to be able also to handle donations | 18:44 |
| X-Fade | SD69: Well, it all depends on what gets decided. | 18:44 |
| ivgalvez | but that should be within a month | 18:44 |
| SD69 | X-Fade: the decision on what, exactly? | 18:45 |
| ivgalvez | in the meantime we need to start administrating services otherwise the transition will be too rude | 18:45 |
| X-Fade | I would start any migration to a new place at least in the beginning of November. | 18:45 |
| ivgalvez | beginning of November sounds fine | 18:45 |
| X-Fade | So before that time there needs to be a clear decision if the services remain at Nemein or go somewhere else. | 18:45 |
| SD69 | X-Fade: do you decide that or do we need to talk to Henri? | 18:46 |
| X-Fade | SD69: The council needs to decide that, I'm not going to pay for it :) | 18:46 |
| ivgalvez | we will need a budget | 18:46 |
| X-Fade | SD69: The council/ NFP is customer in this case. | 18:47 |
| ivgalvez | but Council can¡'t pay, first we need to become legal entity and elect Board, that could be done beginning of October so a decission could be made in the first half of October | 18:47 |
| X-Fade | I'll just facilitate in whatever is needed to move. (if needed) | 18:47 |
| ivgalvez | to decide we will need to know the budget though | 18:47 |
| X-Fade | ivgalvez: Yeah, for the budget from Nemein, you need to talk to Henri. | 18:48 |
| ivgalvez | ok | 18:48 |
| X-Fade | I honestly don't know what hosting costs for them. | 18:48 |
| ivgalvez | unless it's really expensive, more sane approach would be to continue with Nemein | 18:49 |
| SD69 | X-Fade: Nemein might not be interested in hosting + minimal services | 18:50 |
| SD69 | ? | 18:51 |
| X-Fade | SD69: I have no idea, that is really a business decision. I try to stay away from those. | 18:51 |
| ivgalvez | We'll talk to Henri about that | 18:51 |
| X-Fade | ok | 18:51 |
| X-Fade | Let's just agree that we need to have decision by half november. | 18:52 |
| X-Fade | ehm, beginning of November. | 18:52 |
| ivgalvez | OK, let's try to summarise | 18:53 |
| X-Fade | So that if hosting will not be at Nemein, we have time enough to do a proper move. | 18:53 |
| SD69 | I hope we can cutover before the holidays rather than on Dec 31 or Jan 1 | 18:53 |
| SD69 | so we can all enjoy the holidays | 18:54 |
| X-Fade | Yep :) | 18:54 |
| SD69 | X-Fade: do you happen to know if Nokia is paid through the end of 2012? | 18:56 |
| X-Fade | SD69: You mean servers? | 18:57 |
| SD69 | I mean the services contract with Nemein | 18:57 |
| SD69 | if so, this is easy - they just sign over the contract to us | 18:57 |
| SD69 | but if, for example, they still have to pay 5000 euros for Oct-Dec, then we can't transfer the contract cause we can't afford that kind of money | 18:58 |
| X-Fade | Yes, I believe that is still active. | 18:58 |
| X-Fade | Afaik you should start to worry about 2013, everything in 2012 will be payed for by Nokia still. | 18:59 |
| SD69 | of course, the big issue is the budget for 2013 | 19:00 |
| SD69 | X-Fade: Is the new location near Helsinki or Tampere? | 19:01 |
| X-Fade | SD69: Why does it matter? It is all virtual machines anyway? :P | 19:02 |
| SD69 | I as assuming we get the 3 hw servers from Nokia and that we will want to have a community member with admin rights near them | 19:03 |
| X-Fade | Ah, worry about it when you get them :) | 19:03 |
| ivgalvez | so, just to clarify, where are all Maemo services hosted? VM or real hhardware? | 19:04 |
| X-Fade | ivgalvez: It is a mixture | 19:04 |
| ivgalvez | and are these machines hosting anything else than Maemo related stuff? | 19:04 |
| X-Fade | Currently they also host scratchbox.org and tablets-dev etc. | 19:04 |
| X-Fade | and harmattan-dev | 19:04 |
| ivgalvez | what is the future of them? | 19:05 |
| X-Fade | bit bucket? | 19:05 |
| ivgalvez | I assume they are as doomed as us | 19:05 |
| merlin1991 | luckily harmattan-dev has a dl all docs button | 19:05 |
| X-Fade | I guess that nokia will move the docs to some where else, but I have not spoken about that. | 19:05 |
| ivgalvez | can we take over of scratchbox.org? is anyone else involved on that? | 19:07 |
| X-Fade | I'm sorry but I need to wrap up soon. | 19:07 |
| ivgalvez | OK, let's summarise then | 19:07 |
| ivgalvez | Summary: | 19:07 |
| ivgalvez | - Council will talk to Henri, from Nemein, to know the required budget for hosting Maemo services. | 19:07 |
| ivgalvez | - Council elections might take place beginning October, we'll need X-Fade support to setup voting process. | 19:07 |
| ivgalvez | - By-laws approval might take place beginning October at the same time than Council election, we'll need X-Fade support to setup voting process. | 19:07 |
| ivgalvez | - Coding Competition will need voting mechanism by mid September, we'll need X-Fade support to setup voting process. | 19:07 |
| ivgalvez | - New Council, if by laws are approved should decide about keeping servers with Nemein by end October, so a proper decision about continuing with Nemein will be ready beginning November. | 19:07 |
| ivgalvez | - Servers are paid by Nokia until the end of December so contract could be transferred to legal entity in the beginning of November. | 19:07 |
| ivgalvez | - If decided, migration could begin in November, to avoid getting too close to December and holidays. | 19:07 |
| ivgalvez | Are you all OK wit that? | 19:07 |
| X-Fade | Yep | 19:08 |
| merlin1991 | repo issue still not resolved | 19:08 |
| ivgalvez | in the meantime, X-Fade, would it be possible to grant as much administrative privileges as possible to a dedicated group of volunteers beginning with merlin1991? | 19:09 |
| ivgalvez | we could start separating services for Maemo from those that are Nokia's | 19:09 |
| X-Fade | ivgalvez: Yeah, I need to figure out why it isn't working as merlin1991 should have it already. | 19:09 |
| ivgalvez | can we schedule next meeting for next week? | 19:10 |
| ivgalvez | X-Fade, anytime you can | 19:10 |
| X-Fade | yeah, let's keep it on the same time. | 19:11 |
| ivgalvez | perfect | 19:11 |
| ivgalvez | thank you very much Niels | 19:12 |
| X-Fade | I'really need to go. Ping me through email if you need anything. | 19:12 |
| ivgalvez | merlin1991 thanks for coming | 19:12 |
| ivgalvez | see you | 19:12 |
| X-Fade | later! | 19:12 |
| SD69 | thanks Niels | 19:13 |
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| ZogG_laptop | i missed :( | 20:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | damn, noone talked about apps4meego :( | 20:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | oh, there is msg there :P | 20:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | merlin1991: ping | 20:10 |
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| ZogG_laptop | no meeting today? | 21:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | SD69: Woody14619 ? | 21:24 |
| SD69 | hello | 21:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | hey | 21:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | i see ivgalvez was here at 18 and left | 21:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | SD69: so as no meeting here, at least can i ask few question? | 21:27 |
| SD69 | I guess so | 21:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | SD69: 1) what would be the future of apps4meego? would it be ported/moved as cobs with garage merge? | 21:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | and was the voting thing was resolved with x-fade meeting? | 21:30 |
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| Woody14619a | hello. sorry for lateness. traffic was insane. | 21:31 |
| SD69 | I am not involved with apps4meego | 21:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619a: as i said previously i think ivgalvez was here at 18 sharp and left | 21:32 |
| SD69 | X-Fade was not definitive about the voting for coding competition | 21:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | SD69: it's just if you'll have next meeting with X-Fade :) | 21:33 |
| Woody14619a | yeah. I mailed that I may be late... | 21:34 |
| SD69 | I was here too | 21:34 |
| Woody14619a | seems my work machine is still on too. :P probably confusing | 21:34 |
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| Woody14619a | so, was there any decission on which direction we're going with for elections? | 21:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619a: no i'm talking about migration | 21:38 |
| SD69 | nothing decided on voting | 21:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | :( | 21:39 |
| SD69 | we found out that the 3 servers Nokia said on June 25 they were planning to buy for maemo.org have not been delivered yet to Nemein | 21:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | is it good or bad news? | 21:41 |
| Woody14619a | i'm catching up on the meeting this am now. | 21:41 |
| Woody14619a | k... so... we got nothing new. xfade has commited to handle election stuff for next council. | 21:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | but coding competition? | 21:45 |
| Woody14619a | given that, I'd really prefer that we do council and board election in parallel, since we may not get a second shot... | 21:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | whta about reggie option(as i understand last one went this way too) | 21:46 |
| Woody14619a | As I noted before, xfade was non-commital on CC, which seems to not have changed. | 21:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619a: i think the better solution is start working on independed from anyone voting system, as community will need it at some point anyway | 21:47 |
| Woody14619a | zogg, while I agree, we have enough going on as is right now. once the foundation is in place, we should have more direct access to systems, which eliminates the issues we currently have. | 21:49 |
| Woody14619a | but as long as the servers are being paid for by Nokia & not us, we work with what we have. | 21:49 |
| Woody14619a | makes sense to me then to do the full setup in one shot, since we may not get another until the foundation has the keys. | 21:50 |
| Woody14619a | but I can't/won't make that call on my own. | 21:51 |
| Woody14619a | so, we'll follow up in e-mail & I'll do the announce monday. | 21:51 |
| Woody14619a | which I really dislike to do. But it's the only solution I see right now. | 21:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619a: i think the point is to make own systems, and than after foundation to integrate them | 21:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't see why we need exact things that were used till now as there always can be better solutions | 21:53 |
| Woody14619a | you think wrong. the current aim is to inherit the existing systems, not make new ones. | 21:53 |
| SD69 | AFAIK nokia is paying for services | 21:53 |
| SD69 | I don't know if we will even have any servers after 12/31/2012 | 21:54 |
| Woody14619a | building something from scratch would be a ton more work. | 21:54 |
| SD69 | but Nemein wants more $$ than we have, we won't have much choice | 21:54 |
| Woody14619a | agreed sd69. the only solution I see right now is to setup the foundation & hope we can foot the bill. | 21:55 |
| Woody14619a | if not, maybe we can at least get the name/data/hardware? & try hosting it somewhere else... | 21:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619a: true, i dont say reinvent wheel completely. but some things are opensource and can be improved, so my point is not to wait till we get access to the existings so we improve them but to maybe start working on improvements and then apply those on exisitng systems when we get access | 21:56 |
| SD69 | I sent an email this morning explaining that we can get started on the foundation before the board and bylaws are decided | 21:56 |
| Woody14619a | I saw & replied.... | 21:56 |
| Woody14619a | zogg: you are welcome to do that.... | 21:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | ii think it's the time to start foundation, otherwise as i see on how many people it depend and how the communication due time is lack, better to start now and finish before it's time than to be late | 21:58 |
| Woody14619a | zogg, we have been doing the work to start it since we took Council.... | 21:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | i know | 21:59 |
| Woody14619a | k. I will follow up in e-mail. have to go now as battery is low & I need to get back on the road. | 21:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | and i don't mean anything bad by my statement, what i meant that it's better you try how foundation going now, than to make it ready for next council/board. | 22:00 |
| Woody14619a | zogg: to do that we need to get bylaws done. and foundation can't legally do anything until it has an elected board. | 22:01 |
| Woody14619a | thus my desire to start the election process.... | 22:01 |
| Woody14619a | because that will take a month as it stands. | 22:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | what about you being temp board? | 22:03 |
| Woody14619a | not legal. | 22:03 |
| Woody14619a | even if it were, I wouldn't want to do that. | 22:04 |
| Woody14619a | battery is crit... got to go. will follow up tonight. | 22:04 |
| Woody14619a | thanks to all for the earlier meetings & such. | 22:05 |
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