IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Friday, 2012-06-08

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qgilNew topic needed? Is there council meeting now?20:58
Woody14619It should be starting shortly.20:59
qgilok thanks20:59
Woody14619Ping: Estel_   wtf? Where are the others? :P20:59
Estel_Hello there :)21:00
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Woody14619Ah.. there's another one. :)21:00
Estel_Well, ivgalvez sent mail to council@maemo.org, that he won't make it here today21:00
Estel_hello qgil :)21:01
Estel_any news on missing sopurce code requested by Pali?21:01
Woody14619Niel is also out (another mail, moments ago)21:01
Estel_new topic isn't needed qgil, today's meeting is going to be short, probably21:01
Estel_We've had msot of things, roadmap, and TODO set last week - on monday we've meet with COBS team...21:02
qgilEstel_: almost-news, I want to get final exact word from the legals guys that have reviewed the package21:02
Estel_most things are proceeding, so there isn't much to talk today - unless someone got ideas21:02
Estel_qgil, acknowledged. Thanks a lot for picking it up21:03
Estel_traditionally, we're waiting 5 minutes, for eventual late ones21:03
Estel_SD69, ping21:03
SD69i'm here21:03
SD69hello21:03
Estel_oh21:03
Estel_hi there :)21:03
Estel_so we can start already, as ivgalvez and niel announced that they won't be here today21:04
Woody14619#start-meeting  Maemo-Council21:04
Estel_so, officialy, I'm glad to welcome all of You on 3th Council's meeting21:04
Estel_qgil is present here today, so I'll add special 1st agenda point: Formalities about allocating devices to CA winners21:05
Estel_qgil, only one week left for Ca submissionsl, then, we will swiftly choose winners. what next?21:05
Woody14619Should we review last meeting AIs?21:05
Estel_obviously, we need to forward info to You. what information you will need?21:05
Estel_Woody14619, of course, but I would like to "abuse" qgil rpesence here, and would like to do it as first thing, because he may be out later :)21:06
qgilEstel_: name - email - developer.nokia.com userid - they need to have the correct contact details in their profile for shipping21:06
Woody14619one sec, ral life21:06
Estel_developer.nokia.com - many of thems don't have i9t now, should they setup one?21:06
qgilsure21:06
Estel_as you remember, it's award for community contributions, not necessary coding21:06
Estel_OK21:06
qgilthe shipping system ties to that backend, that's the reason21:07
Estel_correct address for shiping is re developer.nokia.com, yep?21:07
Estel_understood, sounds reasonable.21:07
qgilthe NDC profiles contain addrerss & phone number, needs to be filled for shipping21:07
Woody14619k, back. :P  Manager stopped in. :)21:08
* Estel_ nods21:08
SD69are there any barriers to getting that userid (besides having contact details)?21:08
Estel_Any other thing we need to prepare, qgil? Or it seems to be all required?21:08
qgilSD69: no, just create an account like in any other web service21:08
qgilEstel_: that's all21:09
qgilif something more specific would be needed from a participant then we would contact him directly21:09
Woody14619Ok. :) That all looks easy enough.  (And yes, AIs' can wait till end. ;)21:09
Estel_Qgil, during last meetings, we agreed on method of handling submissions to CA, if Council member is also submitting. Popular request (mailing list, topic on TMO) was to have full council assigning prizes, just dropping voting about self-nomination (i.e. Sd69 don't decide about Sd69 being awarded, etc, but participate in deciding about other submissions)21:09
Estel_Are You ok with that?21:09
Estel_I've asked on mailing list, and You haven't opposed, but I would like to be 100% sure21:10
qgilI have no opinion, it's you who decide21:10
Estel_acknowledged.21:10
Estel_is there anything that we, as Council, can do to help Qt% and Nokia Store activites?21:10
Estel_s/Qt%/QT5/21:11
qgilI think they are progressing well. You can put your time on other things, or just get involved in the forum threads21:11
qgilthanks for the offer!21:11
Estel_All right. Woody, could You start reviewing last meeting  AIs??21:12
Estel_no problem21:12
Woody14619Sure... We had a full set:21:12
Estel_qgil, no problem - remember about us if You need any assistance from Community Council's side21:12
Woody14619Which I promptly don't have at hand. :P One sec.21:13
Woody14619    Estel to create and post Council "opening blog".21:13
Woody14619    Woody to create and post meeting minutes on blog after internal review.21:13
Woody14619    Ivgalvez to create list of first-round eliminations for CA21:13
Woody14619    All review approve/comment/reject first-round eliminations for CA21:13
Woody14619    Ivgalvez to re-attempt contact with project maintainers before batch re-assign for promotion.21:13
Woody14619    Woody to contact X-Fade about various topics (project management, promotion, IRC Cloaks)21:13
Woody14619    Woody to contact Reggie about site banner for Coding Competition.21:13
Woody14619ew... cut-past in xchat sucks... but, there it is.21:14
Estel_Ok. so, about Council's opening blog - I still don't have key ideas from Sd69 and ivgalvez21:14
Estel_it seems that council jumped straight into work without much will to celebrate :P21:14
Estel_Sd69, what's up? It's just few sentences about what you would like to tell Community21:14
Woody14619K.  We need to get that done. :)  I thought last meeting we went with the "use the last template and have links to each council's user page" idea?21:15
Estel_Of course I can write this opening blog entry on my own, but I would like to be from whole council, not biased by me21:15
SD69You can announce community awards and coding competition21:15
Estel_Sd69, it was announced already21:15
Estel_Ok, i'll pester ivgalvez and You later, fortunately, it's minor issue (although, I agree with Woody14619 that we need this get done)21:16
Woody14619As for me, my stuff was all spelled out in my candidate statement... transparency.  (Which I think I've been doing?) :)21:16
Estel_blog post after last internal review - done and OK21:16
Estel_Woody14619, , yea, I also got Your PM21:16
Woody14619Ok... Minutes were done by me...21:16
Woody14619Ivan has been working on the CA list, and we all did the AI's around that.21:17
Estel_First batch of Ca submitters were dropped, as per ivgalvez list, with exception for one participant21:17
Estel_as per Woody14619's request21:17
Woody14619Ivan has also been working on the project mantainers stuff, as a few packages have moved forward.21:17
Estel_ivgalvez succesfully contacted maintainers21:17
Estel_yea21:17
Woody14619Yup. :)21:17
Estel_many apckages got promoted21:17
Woody14619I talked to X-Fade... we have a few items there:21:17
Estel_I'mbuilding list of ones that need manual promotion, wil lforward it to X-Fade soon21:17
Estel_Coding Competition banner is up and running already, so last point is talk with X-Fade, which was fruity21:18
Woody14619Cloak info was sent out today.  He'll probably turn that around to FreeNode quick, but their response-time is unknown.21:18
Woody14619So, when they show up, they show up. :)21:18
* Estel_ nods21:18
Estel_bugzilla markers were added21:18
Estel_if someone find it missing, cxontact X-Fade directly21:18
Woody14619The issues around promoting packages looks like it's moving toward two things:21:19
Estel_doing supertesters etc for current autobuilder isn't feasible option, it require manual work, high level of knowledge about system, and super-root privilleges21:19
Estel_this should be trivial for COBS, hoever21:19
Estel_ops, it seems we're cross-talking :P21:19
Woody14619One is that until the new OBS system is in place, we can just batch-assign to super-tester, as the granulartiy and admin controls on the existing repos is slim to nearly non-existant.21:19
Estel_hoever, X-Fade proposed, that he can do things manually, as soon as I'll send him request as batches21:20
Estel_I'm already collecting things to be promoted, stuck packages, etc21:20
Woody14619And as Estel_ noted, once COBS is in place, push can be added easily, apart from maintainership, so that makes life easier.21:20
Woody14619Estel_, yes, you and Ivan are both doing that I assume?21:21
Estel_BTW, X-Fade was very cooperative, and we've got every information + consensus about ways of doing things without any problem21:21
Estel_yes.21:21
Woody14619We should be sure to promote as one lump though, just to make things easier (and so we don't double-up on projects)21:21
Estel_agree and agree.21:22
Woody14619In this case I think it would be best to funnel everything through Ivan, if he's willing to take that on, since this is kind of "his baby" as it were.21:22
Estel_COBs project itself, is progressing as it should, and COBS developers haven't requested any special "care" from council21:22
Estel_also, they're not blocked by any roadblocks as for now21:22
Estel_just things that need to be done,. and are, as time permits21:23
Woody14619If he becomes too busy we can re-task it to you, Estel_. :)21:23
Estel_sure.21:23
Estel_I've proposed javispedro, to help Mer in fund rising - we could make simulatenous fundrising in both Mer and Maemo communities, for COBS, that's beneficial for both parties21:23
Estel_javispedro wasn't interested for now21:24
Woody14619Yes, the meeting minutes for those interested in COBS are here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_OBS:Meeting_Minutes21:24
Estel_courtesy of Woody14619 :)21:24
Estel_OK, point 3: IRC mdoeration21:25
Estel_I've had conversation with X-Fade, about refreshing mdoerating staff on #maemo21:25
Estel_current ideas doesn't involve dropping any chanops, it may change to drop inactive ones21:26
SD69there is still some work to be done on Mer cooperation21:26
Woody14619FreeNode tends to be pretty free of spam and such... so chanop has been low priority. :)21:26
Estel_As half of the Councils is available on #maemo 24/7, (via irc bouncers - Woody14619 and me have one, and I've setup one for other interested Councilors to)21:27
Estel_Woody14619, yea.21:27
Estel_SD69, ifI'm going on too fast pace through points, feel free to tell me21:27
Estel_yea, cooperation with Mer seems to be non-existant for now, if we don't count personal projects21:27
Estel_Sd69, any ideas hot to make it better?21:27
SD69mer has separate account21:27
Woody14619Mine isn't likely to be up 24/7, more 24/5, but yeah. :)  (I'm out of range most weekends through the summer, which is most of this term)21:28
SD69and we need to agree on how to share and manage cOBS21:28
Estel_There was idea about CC rewarding projects running on 3 paltforms - Mer, Fremantle, and Harmattan - it was accepted at the beginning - with anticipation - but, unfortunately, got dropped during shaping categories21:28
Woody14619Mer is working on it... they have a lots of people on that side of the table.  They'll stabalize soon, I'm sure. :)21:28
* Estel_ nods21:28
SD69Maemo is contributing servers and Mer is contributing ?21:29
Estel_cobs allow - sometimes - to cross-compile for many targets using simple "switch", but program must be prepared correctly21:29
Estel_I hoped to propagate good coding practices via Coding competition rewarding such apps, but, well21:29
Estel_After all, there is still chance that multiplatform programs will be submitted and/or awarded :)21:29
Woody14619I think the end-goal is to setup so that Maemo OBS can build for any of the targets (including Harmattan, Mer, and others).  And that Mer is not only providing settings for the Harmattan side, but is looking to setup to have hardware as well21:30
Estel_yea, but as knowledgeable ones (timoph) mentioned, easy compatibility between platforms require good coding practices before21:30
Estel_imany devs may be unaware of steps required to have easy-multi target21:30
Estel_A"fter estabilishing first, mtesting COBS, we will need to prepare some howtos and documentation21:31
Woody14619They're a bit sticky on setting up the hardware right now (stuck in issues around incorporating vs NFP, various country laws, etc)21:31
Estel_COBS team will be busy working on having rest up& running, so it will be up to Community21:31
Estel_going back to IRc mdoeration:21:31
Estel_I came with an idea, to have one or two Council's members as chanops too21:32
Estel_X-Fade is helpful and will grant required right as soon as we will know who can take role of 2nd (if any)21:32
Estel_someone here wanting to take this responsibility?21:32
Woody14619While it makes sense in some ways for Council to have chanops, it's usually reserved to people that are here often, and have an established history.  Which frankly disqualifies most of us, since those of us that have been here for a while are not on often, and vice-versa.21:33
Estel_aas per old chanops, msot of them are doing good work - although, we've had some incidents, where chanop abusing was jsut around the corner (or already crossed line, like yesterday)21:33
Estel_Well, i'mavailable 24/7, that's why I submitted myself21:34
Estel_erm,. maybe nto 24/7 directly :D21:34
Estel_but You know what I mean21:34
Woody14619I was in channel for the one kick yesterday... and while it was clearly a misunderstanding, it was within reason.21:34
Estel_boucners + most of the waking time checking it once a while21:34
Estel_Woody14619, sorry, but I have to dissagree21:34
Woody14619.oO(As you yourself acknowledged after the fact Estel_)21:35
Estel_conversation wasm clearly about oeprating systems, whatsapp, skype and other propertiary things21:35
Woody14619Really?  That's not what you said in channel later that day.21:35
Estel_I acknowledged why it happened, not that it was justified21:35
Estel_Woody14619, everyone participating in conversation was surprised21:35
Estel_and, honestly, if You read logs, You should know, that, actually, no one was udnerstanding what happened21:36
Estel_until I arrived back, and used a bit of deduction ;)21:36
SD69can we stick to council topics, please?21:36
Woody14619Yes, but that was more about the timeing of it, not the reasoning.21:36
Estel_Sd69, maintasining official channels of communication - like TMO and IRc - is council topic21:36
Woody14619And yes, once the reasoning was announced, everyone understood the issue.21:36
Woody14619And your reasoning for what was said was valid as well...21:37
Estel_the merit is, that no one want to drop joerg from being chanop - for now21:37
Woody14619It was just a miscommunication, which was resolved and cleared up quickly.21:37
Estel_but, things like "people mean well doesn't apply anymore for You" just because chanop got personal issue with someone isn't OK21:37
Estel_yea - misscomunication can NEVER result in abusing chanop.21:37
Woody14619And I can expect you won't do the same with chanop why?21:38
Estel_I just think that, for many years, #maemo was, basically, left for chanops as "owners"21:38
Woody14619Given the outbursts this past week?21:38
Estel_some of them feel like it's their property.21:38
SD69can we let it go and move on please?21:38
Estel_Woody14619, I wouldn't, and, as You see, I'm not after joertg (don't want to remove him etc)21:38
Estel_but in case of any actions of abuse anytime soon - even single one - I got confirmation, that fixing chanops is a matter of asking to do it.21:39
Estel_i.e. in case of problems, they're easily fixable.21:39
SD69Estel: and a council vote21:39
Woody14619SD69, I think this is the last topic?  I don't know of anything else in meeting.  Personally, I'm all fine with chanops as they stand.  But Estel_ is pushing (as Council) to alter chanop listings... Thus it's a council issue.21:39
Estel_agree with Woody14619.21:39
SD69we can take a vote when the whole council is here21:39
Estel_BTw, if You ask me, I think that having Council's members as chanops - just for good balance of responsibilities - is OK21:40
Woody14619SD69 is correct.  That would take a council vote... which should wait for Niel and Ivan.21:40
Estel_I don't expect any chanops fights anytime soon ;)21:40
Estel_that ensures we can act quickly if something goes wrong, BUT I don't expect it to be wrong. It's just ensuring being assured.21:40
Woody14619As I think there would have to be a full concensus for just us 3 to do it, which I think clearly is not here. :)21:41
Estel_Woody14619, yea, but what exactly should take Council vote?21:41
Estel_maintaining IRc is open for any Councilor interested and capable.21:41
Estel_removing chanops, should take a vote, I agree.21:41
Woody14619That a formal request be made of X-Fade to change chanop lists.21:41
Estel_define change.21:41
Estel_Adding normal chanops doesn't require Council vote, IMO21:42
Woody14619Where is that documented Estel_?21:42
Estel_nowhere :)21:42
Woody14619I would disagree.21:42
Estel_we're shaping it now.21:42
Estel_look at meeting history21:42
Estel_no single meeting, when all councilors were available at the same time.21:42
Estel_If we would wait for ADDING people to chanop list to vote, we would obstruct it21:42
Woody14619If a random person (say chem|st) were to ask X-Fade to change chanop list to include someone, he would have to show merrit.21:42
Estel_Although, I agree, that removing someone is much serious thing, and require voting.21:42
Estel_Woody14619, random person can't.21:43
Woody14619The ONLY reason you're even being given consideration is BECAUSE you are council.21:43
Estel_maintaining communication channels is council responsibility, see wiki page21:43
Woody14619Since you have *not* been on long enough to even really apply otherwise.21:43
Estel_CCouncil is representation of Community, elected.21:43
Estel_I see nothing wrong in council members being moderator.,21:43
Woody14619Where on the wiki page does it say that?21:43
Estel_In fact, it happened befopre21:43
Estel_Texrat is moderating TMO up to this day.21:43
Woody14619Texrat was moderating TMO before and after his coucil-ship.21:44
Estel_Woody14619, what you are describing, is a situation when absolutely no one maintain it, and current chanops are chanops, just because they've "jumped" early enough.,21:44
SD69no one objected to texrat21:44
Estel_there was no single vote about adding them to list.21:44
Woody14619He got the moderating position because he was doing work, was there, and dedicated.  And as SD69 noted, there was no objection.21:45
Estel_X-Fade is open for suggestions from Council, and it's natural for him, too21:45
Woody14619I doubt the same would be said if current chanops were to be asked about promoting you to chanop....21:45
Estel_All right. Let's use mailing list for voting about adding mdoerators.21:45
Estel_ok, no problem. To not obstruct it, we can vote via council@maemo.org21:45
Estel_no one said voting must be done in real time IRc meeting, yep?21:45
Estel_I tyhink you will agree here.21:46
Estel_?21:46
Woody14619I'll include that in the council minutes.  Voting will happen after minutes and logs are published, so that the others have time to read/review.21:46
Estel_of course.21:46
Estel_even more, others will have time to discuss and participate21:46
Estel_I would make it running from after meeting, up to last people voting (or deciding to not vote)21:47
Woody14619#action-tiem:  (ALL) Review minutes/logs, vote on promotion of council members as chanops to be presented to X-Fade.21:47
Estel_not exactly.21:47
Estel_promotion of Council members as #maemo chanops being *open*. not mandatory.21:47
SD69voted on one by one21:47
Estel_for example - with all due respect - I don't see reason why SD69 should be chanop, as he is available on IRc *very* rarely.21:48
Woody14619Works for me. :)21:48
Estel_SD69, i hope You don't get me wrong21:48
Estel_no offense absolutely, i think you'll agree21:48
Estel_same would apply to me and maemo-dev@maemo.community mdoeration - I'm hardly present there ;)21:48
Woody14619Yay!  Resolved. :)  Do we have further items?21:48
Estel_yes, I'll check papers, as last item bring me little amnesia ;)21:49
Estel_ah, I know21:49
Estel_representing Council to 2rd parties by council members. There was little missunderstanding lately, i must admit, one being my fail.21:49
Estel_fault*21:49
Woody14619I think that was resolved internally really, via e-mail.21:50
Estel_can we agree that, if someone want to contact with 3rd party as someone representing Counciul (be it samples for Maemo devs, or whatever), we need to discuss it with other Councilors *before*?21:50
Estel_yes?21:50
Estel_Would just likle to confirm it here, on open meeting21:50
Estel_some kind of good practice21:50
Woody14619Yup.  That seemed to be the concensus.21:50
SD69yes21:50
Estel_all right, so, resolved.21:50
Estel_anyone would like to add any other point?21:50
Woody14619As general reaction, I've prety much pointed to meeting minutes as a way to validate concesus on actions to be taken.21:51
* Estel_ nods21:51
Woody14619For X-Fade, for example, on the topics I talke to him about, I noted it was all in the blog post, as should be any future requests.21:51
Estel_so, we're proceeding with current things, staying in contact when needed.21:52
Estel_exactly.21:52
Woody14619(Basically, that gives him a nice/easy way to cover is own ..., as he can point to that. :)21:52
Woody14619.oO(Just realized he's in channel, so we're all pinging him to death.)21:52
Woody14619Anyway. :)  I have nothing further... except that I take the ongoing item of making minutes, approval by e-mail ,etc. :)21:53
Estel_so, indeed, it was shortest meeting up to date :) In addition to things already pending, we will have discussion - via council@maemo.org and any other means, that Councilors feel fancy - about altering chanop  list at #maemo21:53
Estel_and voting21:53
Estel_Woody14619, thanks a lot for picking it up21:53
Estel_you're doing perfect job of collecting all fo those21:53
Estel_and releasing.21:53
Woody14619Thanks. :) That was really my big campaign item, so... I'm trying to stick to it. ;)21:54
Estel_SD69, no objections to close meeting?21:54
Estel_closing*21:54
Woody14619#end-meeting Maemo-council21:54
Palicouncil and qgil, do you have time now?21:54
SD69bye21:54
Woody14619(Hash-tags are nice, btw, as you can use them for filtering later. ;)21:54
Estel_Pali, of course21:54
Woody14619Sure, Pali. What's up?21:54
PaliEstel_, I already wrote about ipv6 and icd on #maemo21:55
Estel_yep.21:55
qgilhi Pali21:55
Estel_(btw, don't be shy to enter discussion during official meeting to, if it's related to council work - we're happy to add agenda point from non-councilors community members too)21:55
Paliit is possible to push package libicd-network-ipv6 from diablo to maemo fremantle extras?21:55
Palithat package closed21:55
Paliin diablo21:56
Estel_qgil, let me explain21:56
Estel_I told Pali, that, using Your exception...21:56
Estel_MAemo devs can use closed Nokia bits, if used only for Nokia products21:56
Estel_in community projects, non for profit, open etc21:56
Estel_basically, it's same situation as few before.21:56
Estel_there is closed bit in diablo repo, that we would like to put as a part of solution for Fremantle.21:56
qgilI see no problem21:57
Estel_yea, told that already, but Pali wanted to be sure :)21:57
Palithat package is only in repo catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo-221:57
Woody14619Pali, I think the concesus was that we were pushing that to CSSU?  Was there a need to put it in extras?21:57
Estel_Woody14619, don'tYou mean libcurl?21:57
Palino that is not going to cssu21:57
Woody14619Estel_, you are correct. :)  My confusion... this is libicd.21:58
Paliit is package for autoconfiguring dhcpv6 on maemo521:58
Estel_yes. libcurl is open already, and included in CSSU update released yesterday21:58
Estel_so, Pali, as said before, You're absolutely free to include it :021:58
Paliok, so if there is no problem with libicd-network-ipv6 I will push last diablo version to fremantle extras-devel21:59
Woody14619Pali, and thank you for doing the work on this item. :)21:59
Estel_wanted to say the same :)21:59
Paliok :-)21:59
Estel_just wondered about "and bless you for doing that" being not too religious21:59
Estel_;p21:59
Paliand other question, what is state of osso-backup?21:59
Estel_Pali, i've asked about it at beginning of meeting.21:59
Estel_<qgil> Estel_: almost-news, I want to get final exact word from the legals guys that have reviewed the package22:00
Palioh, I see22:00
PaliEstel_ and there was question about powertop on #maemo22:00
Estel_Ouh? Could you remind me? could I forget about that one?22:01
Woody14619qgil, also to you, thanks for being available for the meeting. :)  I hope you can come to future ones as well.  I'm hoping they will be shorter as time goes on. ;)22:01
Estel_AFAIK freemangordon was working on it?22:01
Palipowertop is clsoed too22:01
Palithere was bug about relicensing...22:01
Estel_Pali, but powertop doesn't have open licence mentioned?22:01
qgilIt was 11am here, having a windopw open doesn't harm  :)22:01
Estel_and AFAIK, there was said that Nokia won't be releasing anything new anytime soon as GPL22:01
Woody14619This is about the glitch with it detecting the wrong speeds, yes?22:01
qgilosso-backup, I hope to give you official answer next week22:02
Estel_Woody14619, yea22:02
qgilbut22:02
Estel_Pali, bug about powertop - was it about it *should* being open as based on Debian's powertop?22:02
qgilI can already tell you: it was a bug in the public files: all the closed files refer to Nokia proprietary license.22:02
Estel_I.E based on GPL license?22:02
Woody14619qgil, yup... I've worked at larger corps... You never know when things will move or halt suddenly.22:02
Estel_qgil, ouh22:02
Estel_qgil, so, unoficially - we're after meeting already :) chances are thin?22:03
qgilthere is no intention of opening that component, no22:03
* Estel_ nods22:03
Paliqgil, on repository.maemo.org is gpl source code old version of osso-backup22:03
Paliit is now proprietary?22:04
Estel_ah, yea22:04
Estel_almost forget about that one22:04
Estel_osso-backup was released GPL with lower version number. What happened?22:04
qgilPali: that is the precise answer I want to give you next week in the bug report22:04
Estel_it got re-licensed to being closed?22:04
Estel_OK22:04
Woody14619hmm.. sad.  But it sounds like there's already enough known that someone may re-code an open version for CSSU.22:04
Paliok22:04
qgilIn Diablo was open but in Fremantle was decided to have it Nokia proprietary22:05
Woody14619I think that was waiting on if there was a need (eg why re-code what we can get source for already?)22:05
Estel_Woody14619, yea22:06
qgilthe GPL and lower version number was probably a mistake22:06
Estel_we also have backupmenu, which could be easily extended to handle specific files22:06
qgilhard to know exactly now, it's been some time and those people are not around or easy to find anymore22:06
* Woody14619 nods22:06
qgilplease let me give you the official answer in the bug report  :)22:06
Woody14619Sad if that's the official outcome, but not totally unexpected.22:07
Woody14619Hopefully something will change between now and next week and we all get an unexpected suprise? ;)22:07
qgilif the closed files would have shown also GPL licenses then the mistake would have been obviosu and the release of the sources would have been done22:07
Estel_well, pity, but it happens, we can do nothing more than accepting it :)22:08
Woody14619Anything more, Pali?22:09
Palipromotion of extras-devel packages, which I cannot... but I will wait for super testers...22:10
Woody14619Also, Pali, is there a bug tracker number for the libicd item?22:10
Palilibicd network ipv6? no22:10
PaliI found bug about powertop: bug 1073922:11
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/10739 Powertop licencing.22:11
Woody14619K, was just going to put it in the minutes if there was.  I'll note this package needs testing/voting as well.22:11
Woody14619If nothing more, I'm off to write minutes and get back to my day job. :)22:11
Estel_re bug - thanks Pali, reading22:13
Paliqgil is assigned to that bug22:13
Estel_qgil, could You see it again?22:14
Estel_https://bugs.maemo.org/1073922:14
povbotBug 10739: Powertop licencing.22:14
Paliand seems that powertop is in harmattan too: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Developer_tools_Performance_testing_tools_Using_PowerTOP.html22:14
Estel_it seems that it was, after all, based on GPL'ed stuff22:14
qgil"Checked with Igor & Sakari. First impression: very positive. Now give us some more time to define a concrete plan with the MeeGo horizon in mind."22:14
Estel_ouh22:14
Estel_it was quite old22:15
qgilMeeGo is gone, Igor & Sakari work at Intel.22:15
Estel_qgil, ok, but stuff without any lciense and source, based on GPL'ed stuff is still a problem.22:15
qgilIs that the case? I'll ask.22:15
qgilIt's been a while, yes22:15
Estel_I think you will agree, that chances about it being written from scratch are thin, and "impressions" mentioned there seems to confirm that22:15
Estel_qgil, yes, it seems that it's based on GPL v2 licensed powertop22:16
Estel_with changes for ARM powersaving22:16
Estel_as it differ from intel ones22:16
qgilWhy not pinging there with whatever new details you have? Eero Tamminen is at Nokia.22:16
Estel_BTW, qgil, it was, somehow, very sad to read that line.22:16
Estel_<qgil> MeeGo is gone, Igor & Sakari work at Intel.22:17
Estel_qgil, i lost trace about who is at Nokia and who isn't anymore22:17
Estel_that why I asked You, as our contact ;)22:17
Estel_BTW, as Pali mentioned, You're assigned to this bug, as per bugzilla22:17
qgilEero is saying in that bug report that it's a total rewrite22:17
Estel_erm, let me quote22:17
qgilanyway, I'll ask22:17
Estel_ok22:17
Estel_"but i'm not sure how complete"22:18
Estel_personally, i don't belive it's done from scratch, but of course, it's guessworking22:18
Estel_(judging by similarities to mainstream powertoip - I don't think someone would rewrite from scratch parts of GPL'ed stuff, to being identical as in those GPL'ed stuff)22:19
Estel_well, i just hope it will be resolved positively, as we already have some people interested in fixing it.22:19
Estel_without high hopes, though.22:19
qgilemail sent to Eero22:22
PaliEstel_ do you know where will be kernel-power-settings in extras?22:24
Estel_qgil, thanks22:24
Estel_Pali, I'll send a batch with request to X-Fade next week22:24
Estel_he asked to accumulate them22:24
Paliok22:24
Estel_of course, this situation is present only before COBS22:25
Estel_after that, it will be no-issue22:25
PaliEstel_ can you ask on COBS meeting if it is possible (when COBS will be ready) to create one obs repo for thumb packages and configure it with our thumb gcc toolchain?22:32
Estel_sure, I can22:32
Estel_BTW - while I'll do it with pleasure - COBS meetings are held every Monday at 15 UTC, so if, in any case, You would be able to attend it, it's best solution...22:33
Estel_As, in case of any questions from their side, i'll be unable to answer22:33
Estel_You know, technical things22:33
Paliit will be good for testing if we could recompile maemo 5 sdk with thumb but in separate repo22:34
Estel_everything I can say about setting up such cobs is from your one liner and common sense.22:34
Estel_OK22:34
Estel_is it meant as separate repo for testing only, or, later, for real usage too?22:34
Estel_(i.e. by more users etc)22:34
Paliif thumb packages will be stable, why not?22:35
Palibut I have no idea if cobs build machines could recompile maemo 5 sdk with thumb in separate repo22:36
Paliit is question for cobs meeting22:37
Palithanks Estel_22:37
Estel_no problem22:37
Estel_yw.22:37
Palihere is powertop thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3710222:48
Woody14619Pali, one consideration.  Anything thumb will likely have to rely on either KP or an independant thumb-patch package made with said patch.22:50
PaliWoody14619, yes thumb packages needs other kernel22:50
Palibut in separate repo it is possible to have thumb only packages22:52
Woody14619My understanding was that the patch (while in KP now), could be done in a stand alone executable?22:52
Palino22:52
Palipatch is changing some assembler kernel code22:53
Paliso we cannot create kernel module which do needed work22:53
PaliWoody14619, no way to enable thumb on stock nokia pr1.3 kernel without flashing22:54
Woody14619ah.. ok. :)  I've been following it loosely with chats from freemangordon in the main channel and elsewhere, so was not sure on that (why I asked). :)22:59
Woody14619So anything coming from that repo would have a req tag of KP>=50 (or 51?)23:00
PaliWoody14619, yes, now on gitorious we have cssu-kernel git repo which is kp50+thumb23:03
PaliWoody14619, but if we have obs repo for that, we can patch debhelper dh_gencontrol which generate package dependences to automatically add required kernel package23:05
Woody14619Pali, awesome.  And thanks again to you and all the folks that work on KP.  It's great to have an active maintainer for such important projects.23:05
Paliso no manual work for adding/changing packages... just upload it to separate repo23:06
Pali:-)23:06
Woody14619Can't wait for those to go on-line and mainstream.  Will make life a lot easier for most developers (or at least more standard and a lot more flexable).23:07
Woody14619K.  Off to work the day job.  Thanks again! :)23:08
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