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| SD69 | hello | 17:00 |
|---|---|---|
| X-Fade | hi | 17:01 |
| fcrochik | Hi Rob | 17:01 |
| fcrochik | and everybody else :) | 17:01 |
| fcrochik | (someone should change the topic... I don't know how :( ) | 17:02 |
| SD69 | i don't know either | 17:03 |
| SD69 | and has someone set up to save a log of the meeting? | 17:04 |
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| achipa | hi o/ | 17:05 |
| SD69 | hi attila | 17:05 |
| *** mairas_ has joined #maemo-meeting | 17:08 | |
| mairas_ | heyy | 17:08 |
| mairas_ | sorry for being terribly late! | 17:08 |
| fcrochik | mairas_: don't worry ...we are still 2 short | 17:08 |
| X-Fade | Hehe :) | 17:08 |
| mairas_ | ah, cool, then :-) | 17:09 |
| fcrochik | should we wait for texrat and qole? | 17:09 |
| achipa | heya | 17:09 |
| SD69 | does anyone know if Henri is joining us? | 17:09 |
| SD69 | hi matti | 17:09 |
| mairas_ | the local MeeGo Meetup is starting at 17:30 and I thought it'd be good idea to get to the premises already and take care of the meeting from here... | 17:09 |
| mairas_ | didn't work quite that smoothly | 17:09 |
| mairas_ | SD69, he's just coming | 17:10 |
| mairas_ | he's standing 5 meters from me | 17:10 |
| *** bergie has joined #maemo-meeting | 17:10 | |
| bergie | hi | 17:10 |
| mairas_ | there | 17:10 |
| SD69 | hi | 17:11 |
| SD69 | maybe we should start? | 17:14 |
| fcrochik | I think so.... | 17:14 |
| mairas_ | yes, it'd be easier for me too | 17:14 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, I guess so. | 17:14 |
| mairas_ | do we have any special agenda? should I first introduce myself? | 17:15 |
| mairas_ | "Hi, I'm Matti and I'm a Maemo user." | 17:16 |
| mairas_ | anyway | 17:16 |
| fcrochik | mairas_: I don't think we have any well defined agenda... we would like to meet you and talk about anything that can be relevant to the future of the maemo community | 17:16 |
| mairas_ | allright | 17:17 |
| mairas_ | so I'll give a short background of myself | 17:17 |
| mairas_ | I've been at Nokia since 2008, working more or less the whole time on the Harmattan and Maemo Python projects | 17:17 |
| mairas_ | first, I was the Harmattan Python architect until summer of 2009, and after that I've been the project lead for them. and PySide, of course | 17:18 |
| mairas_ | for a few months I've been in the same office with tekojo, dwilms and Sampo Savola | 17:19 |
| mairas_ | and now that tekojo told he'd be leaving Nokia to work for another company and I've been doing quite a bit of community stuff with Python, the maemo.org responsibilities fell kinda naturally on my lap | 17:20 |
| mairas_ | I also had life prior to Nokia, did a PhD at Helsinki University of Technology on speech processing. but let's not go into that. :-) | 17:21 |
| fcrochik | mairas_: thank you! | 17:21 |
| mairas_ | so, there! | 17:21 |
| fcrochik | why don't we take the white elephant out of the room first: is there any plan (that you can talk about) for harmattan on maemo.org? | 17:22 |
| mairas_ | heh. first, we don't have any secret agendas for the communities. | 17:23 |
| mairas_ | at least any I'd know of ;-) | 17:23 |
| X-Fade | fcrochik: What do you mean by this? Harmattan hosted at maemo.org or Harmattan for older devices? | 17:24 |
| mairas_ | the harmattan community is supposed to orbit either around Meego or around developer.nokia.com, depending whether people are more meego- or nokia-oriented | 17:24 |
| mairas_ | ah | 17:24 |
| fcrochik | X-Fade: harmattan for old devices seems out of the question (I guess).... | 17:24 |
| fcrochik | X-Fade: I just want to make sure that harmattan will be a meego device and that Nokia is not going to market it as related to maemo | 17:25 |
| mairas_ | fcrochik, yes, my sentiments as well. | 17:25 |
| fcrochik | X-Fade: so new users will not come to maemo.org for the device | 17:25 |
| X-Fade | fcrochik: Ah, yes. Well, no Harmattan at maemo.org. | 17:26 |
| mairas_ | fcrochik, X-Fade yes, more or less like that. | 17:26 |
| X-Fade | fcrochik: Apps will be at MeeGo, forum is too. | 17:26 |
| fcrochik | thanks... that is what I assumed | 17:26 |
| bergie | two separate communities | 17:27 |
| mairas_ | then, of course, that might be something that happens anyway, at least to some degree | 17:27 |
| X-Fade | Downside for maemo.org is that that limits it's life. | 17:27 |
| bergie | though we might want to have a MeeGo banner or something | 17:27 |
| fcrochik | so the obvious next question is: is there any chance we are going to have any of maemo be able to transition into the meego infrastructure? | 17:28 |
| fcrochik | like having a "maemo target" on the OBS? | 17:28 |
| SD69 | we might want coordination if that's possible | 17:28 |
| bergie | theoretically OBS could build for Fremantle | 17:28 |
| mairas_ | X-Fade, any idea about that? | 17:28 |
| bergie | but I'm not sure MeeGo IT is too keen on that, I understood build servers are quite busy already | 17:29 |
| X-Fade | fcrochik: I have had tests building for maemo on OBS. That worked. | 17:29 |
| X-Fade | fcrochik: It is still my intention to bring that to OBS, but it is low priority atm. | 17:29 |
| fcrochik | I can only assume it would be good for both communities... would help harmattan get appliactions faster and maemo would die slower :) | 17:29 |
| X-Fade | fcrochik: Also, we should face reality and expect to see a very clear drop in visitors after N9 release. | 17:30 |
| bergie | the good news is that the MeeGo apps system is distro-agnostic, so it could be used for Maemo too | 17:30 |
| X-Fade | After fremantle release, diablo downloads went down by 80% in a few weeks. | 17:30 |
| SD69 | X-Fade: and better focus on sw projects | 17:30 |
| fcrochik | bergie: one more reason why the OBS would be perfect.... it could replace our autobuilder and extras...all at once | 17:30 |
| X-Fade | fcrochik: Yes, but it is a non trivial effort and we need to see that it is still worth it. | 17:31 |
| fcrochik | X-Fade: I don't disagree.... just trying to make the best of what we can | 17:31 |
| X-Fade | I would like to have it, but then again, I don't see myself having time to look at it for the next 2 months. | 17:32 |
| X-Fade | If there are people interested in it, then we might be able to work on it on a test server. Or at least I could give access to that. | 17:33 |
| fcrochik | X-Fade: I am ...unfortunately can't offer much time in the next month either... | 17:34 |
| mairas_ | FWIW, I think that's not a priority of us either... personally wouldn't mind it happening, but the absolute priority for everything we do in-house is on Harmattan atm | 17:36 |
| SD69 | X-Fade, Matti: does maemo.org have funding for X hours of services per month? | 17:36 |
| mairas_ | frankly, I don't know :-) | 17:37 |
| mairas_ | haven't seen the contracts | 17:37 |
| X-Fade | SD69: There are multiple things at play here. | 17:37 |
| X-Fade | There are support contracts for the hardware. | 17:37 |
| X-Fade | So that means that maemo.org itself will run on servers and they will keep running. | 17:38 |
| X-Fade | And there is/was funding for people to actually do or develop new things. | 17:38 |
| bergie | SD69: the contracts mainly focus on keeping things working, but we are able to do small things if needed | 17:38 |
| fcrochik | is there any information that any of you can share with us about the "maemo" usage? I assume is dropping and it will drop even more... I just think we need to keep into perspective how many people we are trying to "service" | 17:39 |
| X-Fade | For new things everything is geared towards Harmattan of course. | 17:39 |
| mairas_ | fcrochik, X-Fade probably has the numbers? | 17:40 |
| SD69 | is a maemo target on OBS out of contract/supplemental/...? | 17:40 |
| mairas_ | from what I've understood, the maemo.org crowd has been really persistent and loyal | 17:40 |
| X-Fade | SD69: Consider that a free time project. | 17:40 |
| mairas_ | SD69, I'd say it's not a goal for us | 17:41 |
| SD69 | mattl: and they are not ready to die just yet | 17:41 |
| bergie | fcrochik: at least downloads are still strong, though slowly tapering downwards after December | 17:41 |
| X-Fade | Currently the repository downloads are back at the level of about Feb 2010. | 17:41 |
| mairas_ | well, rephrasing, we're focusing on other things :-) | 17:41 |
| X-Fade | Since Jan the downloads are slowly declining every day. | 17:41 |
| bergie | we're still doing more or less million per week | 17:42 |
| bergie | N900 has surprising staying power | 17:42 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, we have about 200K extras* downloads a day still. | 17:43 |
| fcrochik | I can't think that meego/nokia/harmattan would not benefit from us making the transition just "a little easier" ... | 17:44 |
| bergie | agreed, also using OBS and the new Apps front-end would reduce server load quite a bit | 17:44 |
| X-Fade | fcrochik: Effort geared towards porting apps to Harmattan is of course benificial for everybody. | 17:44 |
| X-Fade | *beneficial | 17:45 |
| fcrochik | X-Fade: yes.... but I assume even the "users" are the first "market" for the new meego devices... | 17:45 |
| mairas_ | X-Fade, yep, for example thp has been very active in getting gPodder for Harmattan, and that'll most likely increase his interest in Maemo versions as well | 17:45 |
| SD69 | X-Fade: will you have time for power kernal issue? | 17:48 |
| X-Fade | SD69: Yeah, that is on my todo list. Sorry it is quite hectic lately :) | 17:49 |
| SD69 | good news that it is to be done | 17:50 |
| fcrochik | probably way above my pay grade, but: couldn't we use some of the funding to maintain the maemo.org to pay for trying to make things happen like creating the OBS target for maemo and/or getting maemo forums somewhere else (nokia developer?) | 17:50 |
| X-Fade | fcrochik: Hehe, no I think you can forget about that. | 17:50 |
| fcrochik | X-Fade: it doesn't hurt asking :) | 17:51 |
| SD69 | why? | 17:51 |
| mairas_ | yep, maemo.org is pretty much in a maintenance mode from our POV | 17:51 |
| X-Fade | SD69: Maemo is not on Nokia's agenda anymore. | 17:51 |
| mairas_ | we do everything to ensure that the hardware and bandwidth is there and that the sites are up | 17:51 |
| fcrochik | so ...to talk about the blue rhino now: | 17:52 |
| SD69 | matti: we understood that we had funding | 17:52 |
| mairas_ | but really not that much active development | 17:52 |
| X-Fade | SD69: To keep things running, yes. | 17:52 |
| fcrochik | this is probably the last council for maemo and maemo will not see any new investment from nokia | 17:52 |
| SD69 | fcrochik: that is not for us to say... | 17:53 |
| bergie | whether this is the last council is of course up to the community | 17:53 |
| X-Fade | Funding for infra is there until end of 2012. | 17:53 |
| bergie | and for keeping things going | 17:53 |
| mairas_ | bergie, fully agree | 17:53 |
| SD69 | I think we may need to restructure - what about that? | 17:54 |
| fcrochik | X-Fade: I guess that was my point....isn't the 2012 budget enough to pay for something else... it feels that would be much better for the community if we could be proactive instead of just waiting for it to be over | 17:54 |
| X-Fade | After that GPL sources need to be offered still, but that can be done with a small scale server setup. | 17:54 |
| X-Fade | fcrochik: These are just support and hardware contracts. Made for years in advance. | 17:54 |
| X-Fade | fcrochik: It is not cash money that can be put onto something else. | 17:55 |
| mairas_ | fcrochik, the community of course is still able to work on things | 17:55 |
| mairas_ | it's not as if everything should need to be dependent on the company support | 17:55 |
| bergie | and we're of course happy to ensure a smooth transition to whatever the community wants to do once hardware runs out | 17:56 |
| bergie | pretty much everything on the servers in open source | 17:56 |
| fcrochik | bergie: realistically I can't imagine that will make sense or even be possible to expect that the community will sponsor anything on its own... | 17:57 |
| fcrochik | especially because by then it will be a much smaller community | 17:57 |
| SD69 | for a smooth transition, we would need some transparency | 17:57 |
| mairas_ | I need to go and have a PySide presentation now... be back in 30 mins? | 17:57 |
| bergie | I think better to see how the community looks like next year before deciding | 17:58 |
| X-Fade | Around this time next year, we still have 6 months to decide what to do. | 17:58 |
| fcrochik | mairas_: I think we accomplished the "introduction" part....may be we can leave for another day ... | 17:58 |
| bergie | I can confirm mairas just walked to the stage :-) | 17:58 |
| bergie | shouldn't take long, though I'm presenting after him | 17:59 |
| bergie | Helsinki MeeGo meetup | 17:59 |
| fcrochik | bergie: just out of cuiosoty: are you in charge of hosting (and else) meego too? | 17:59 |
| fcrochik | curiosoty | 17:59 |
| fcrochik | third time: curiosity | 18:00 |
| bergie | nope, hosting is another company | 18:00 |
| bergie | and MeeGo is hosted at OSU | 18:00 |
| SD69 | OSU - oregon state or ohio state? | 18:00 |
| bergie | Oregon, AFAIK | 18:01 |
| X-Fade | I am in the MeeGo IT team too. | 18:01 |
| bergie | maemo also uses some other paid services, like Nokia's Akamai CDN | 18:01 |
| bergie | our role is just the software side of things | 18:03 |
| fcrochik | X-Fade: may be we need to invest the 2012 budget on cloning you :) | 18:03 |
| X-Fade | Nokia still has budget for me until the end of 2011. So you need to be quick then. | 18:04 |
| fcrochik | I would like to thank you everybody... not trying to end the meeting but I know people have other plans... | 18:05 |
| bergie | fcrochik: our helpdesk is responsible for regular maintenance | 18:05 |
| SD69 | can you clarify "regular"? | 18:05 |
| bergie | keeping things up, reacting to issues if needed | 18:06 |
| fcrochik | X-Fade: sorry, can't help much ... would really like (or not?) to be the one deciding how to use the money... | 18:06 |
| fcrochik | bergie: thank you... | 18:06 |
| X-Fade | Hehe, don't worry. Everything will be ok :) | 18:06 |
| fcrochik | you saw on a cartoon? | 18:06 |
| fcrochik | :) | 18:06 |
| SD69 | X-Fade: Ok, now I know we're in trouble! ;-p | 18:07 |
| X-Fade | I need to leave now, need to get something to eat before my next meeting starts :) | 18:07 |
| SD69 | attila: are you still around? you've been quiet... | 18:07 |
| X-Fade | Meeting season in full effect. | 18:07 |
| bergie | I need to go and present as well | 18:07 |
| fcrochik | thank you all | 18:07 |
| SD69 | thank you | 18:08 |
| bergie | council: feel free to ping me if you have further questions or issues | 18:08 |
| X-Fade | If you guys need anything from me, feel free to mail me or ping me on IRC. I'm always on anyway. | 18:08 |
| bergie | or use support@nemein.com. They travel less ;-) | 18:08 |
| fcrochik | will do! | 18:08 |
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| achipa | SD69: triple-tasking | 18:14 |
| mairas_ | back | 18:16 |
| SD69 | many people at that meet-up | 18:16 |
| SD69 | *? | 18:17 |
| mairas_ | lemme see | 18:18 |
| mairas_ | 40-45 | 18:18 |
| SD69 | not bad | 18:19 |
| mairas_ | yeah, it's pretty popular | 18:19 |
| SD69 | do you know if N9 hasofficial TM license or is the compliance exception more of a wink and nod? | 18:19 |
| mairas_ | SD69, re meego, you mean? | 18:20 |
| SD69 | yes, re meego | 18:20 |
| mairas_ | I believe it was agreed with Intel that Nokia could brand the Harmattan device as Meego | 18:21 |
| SD69 | yes, it seems to have gone that way in the last two weeks | 18:21 |
| SD69 | good for both parties imho | 18:22 |
| SD69 | although maemo.org is left in odd position | 18:22 |
| mairas_ | SD69, agree. and it depends on the viewpoint whether the differences are significant or not | 18:22 |
| mairas_ | for end users, they're not, nor for regular application developers (because the IDEs hide the packaging differences) | 18:23 |
| mairas_ | but when you go under the hood, then of course it's a different matter | 18:23 |
| SD69 | well, maemo.org is for open source so we will be going under the hood to get an open UI | 18:24 |
| mairas_ | I need to go now... mail me if there's anything - I'm at matti.p.airas@nokia.com or mairas at FreeNode! | 18:24 |
| SD69 | thank you - bye | 18:25 |
| mairas_ | bye | 18:25 |
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