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| jonwil | HOLY CRAP | 04:10 |
|---|---|---|
| jonwil | I found yet another BL-5J in my drawer and just managed to boot RescueOS on my device | 04:10 |
| jonwil | So my N900 is NOT dead | 04:10 |
| jonwil | and the USB is NOT broken | 04:10 |
| jonwil | I have now started rescueos charging script and intend to leave it alone until it says this particular BL-5J is 100% full | 04:12 |
| jonwil | Spoke too soon, the phone just died and wont boot rescueOS now | 04:19 |
| jonwil | I suspect all 3 batteries I have are too flat to succesfully boot rescueos and what just happened was a weird fluke | 04:19 |
| jonwil | That or the USB port is extremely flaky and only makes contact intermittently | 04:23 |
| jonwil | and it made just enough contact to boot RescueOS before stopping contact and causing RescueOS to due due to battery being low and unable to charge | 04:23 |
| jonwil | Still, its a sign my N900 is not dead | 04:24 |
| jonwil | and may well work if I can get a fully charged battery (and if need be, a repaired non-flaky USB port somehow) | 04:25 |
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| buZz | undead \o/ | 06:53 |
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| KotCzarny | jonwil: yeah, they are unkillable ;) | 07:55 |
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| KotCzarny | as long there is power | 07:55 |
| jonwil | Yeah it seems like the only way to truly destroy a N900 is a hardware failure (e,g. totally broken USB, modem chip failure, whatever) or to get into a position where you have no battery juice and no way to charge the battery | 07:56 |
| jonwil | Its the second situation I seem to find myself in right now | 07:56 |
| jonwil | Need to find a way to get juice into one or more of the 3 batteries I have without spending a fortune or waiting weeks for something to arrive. | 07:57 |
| jonwil | So far the only option I have seen is to buy some random charger or phone from someone that either wants a fortune for it, is shipping it on a slow boat out of China or both,. | 07:59 |
| jonwil | Which doesn't help me :P | 07:59 |
| KotCzarny | are you good with manual skills? | 08:01 |
| KotCzarny | also, can you still return your replacement phone and get one that fits bl-5j? | 08:05 |
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| jonwil | There are no phones sold in my area that take BL-5J | 08:09 |
| KotCzarny | darn. | 08:09 |
| jonwil | At least none that aren't super expensive and not worth buying | 08:09 |
| KotCzarny | asha 500 ? | 08:10 |
| jonwil | when I looked I didn't see anything branded Nokia at all | 08:10 |
| KotCzarny | ahm | 08:10 |
| jonwil | Either in the low or high end of the selection | 08:10 |
| jonwil | Plenty of iPhones and Galaxies at very high prices | 08:10 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, best profit on them | 08:10 |
| jonwil | and a few from HTC and Sony and things | 08:10 |
| jonwil | and then at the low end the usual low-end Android stuff (like the one I bought) | 08:11 |
| KotCzarny | anyway, are you good with manual skills? | 08:11 |
| jonwil | I have no skills or tools for soldering or that sort of work | 08:11 |
| jonwil | So that doesn't help | 08:11 |
| KotCzarny | no no, not that advanced | 08:11 |
| jonwil | what then? | 08:11 |
| KotCzarny | i was just thinking about making some wire extension from your new phone to bl-5j | 08:12 |
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| KotCzarny | but i would have to be stable enough not to create a short | 08:12 |
| KotCzarny | *it | 08:12 |
| jonwil | I dont think that would worh | 08:13 |
| jonwil | work | 08:13 |
| KotCzarny | i do | 08:13 |
| KotCzarny | li-ion is a li-ion | 08:13 |
| jonwil | Except when the battery is built into the phone and cant be removed | 08:13 |
| KotCzarny | lol | 08:13 |
| KotCzarny | your cheapo phone has nonremovable battery? | 08:13 |
| KotCzarny | that sucks | 08:14 |
| jonwil | Everyone is doing it for everything because its cheaper than removable battery :P | 08:14 |
| KotCzarny | but its just wrong | 08:14 |
| KotCzarny | for plenty of reasons | 08:14 |
| KotCzarny | :/ | 08:14 |
| jonwil | The market cares more about getting greater battery life for less money than about removable or replacible batteries | 08:15 |
| KotCzarny | then market should be educated | 08:15 |
| KotCzarny | anyway, look for any device that can charge li-ion | 08:15 |
| KotCzarny | for example some dev boards with allwinner chips have li-ion support | 08:16 |
| jonwil | I haven't a clue where I would get a dev board in Australia either | 08:16 |
| jonwil | Maybe laptops with removable batteries but A.Those are super-expensive and B.The battery compartments on those are such that I would never get any kind of access to the contacts. | 08:18 |
| jonwil | I have no devices in my house with that kind of lithium-ion batteries except my N900 | 08:18 |
| jonwil | My camera takes AAs | 08:18 |
| KotCzarny | nah, laptops usually use higher voltage | 08:20 |
| KotCzarny | got a power bank? | 08:20 |
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| KotCzarny | the cheapo kind that takes single 18650 battery | 08:20 |
| buZz | laptop batterypacks are just 18650 batteries joined together | 08:21 |
| buZz | break em open, pull em out ;) | 08:21 |
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| KotCzarny | buzz, yes, but what i meant they arent suitable for charging single cell | 08:21 |
| buZz | unless you have a fruitcomputer, then you're fucked | 08:21 |
| buZz | KotCzarny: they totally are | 08:21 |
| buZz | once you seperate them | 08:21 |
| jonwil | I dont have a power bank or anything like that either | 08:24 |
| jonwil | The only lithium-ion batteries I have are the one in my new phone that is no help and the 3 dead BL-5Js | 08:25 |
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| KotCzarny | jonwil, maybe someone in your family has older, normal phone? | 08:36 |
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| jonwil | Nope, dont think so. | 08:44 |
| KotCzarny | weird land | 08:45 |
| jonwil | they probably dont have it because they dont keep old gear around :) | 08:45 |
| KotCzarny | i would imagine you guys hoarding stuff because of scarcity | 08:47 |
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| KotCzarny | jonwil, you may try looking for those http://www.cpkb.org/wiki/Nokia_BL-5J_battery#Compatibility | 09:04 |
| KotCzarny | maybe post some ad | 09:04 |
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| jonwil | Already looked for those | 09:07 |
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| buZz | i got some bl-5j clones from ebay | 09:10 |
| buZz | the polarcell is the best though | 09:10 |
| KotCzarny | well, he has 3 batteries, and unable to charge them ;) | 09:11 |
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| buZz | oh eh | 09:13 |
| buZz | connect https://www.banggood.com/Mini-1A-Lithium-Battery-Charging-Board-Charger-Module-USB-Interface-p-89732.html with a couple wires | 09:13 |
| buZz | hook it to usb, wait maybe 30 minutes, then rescueos charge it | 09:14 |
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| KotCzarny | his usb is also broken | 09:14 |
| buZz | then just fully charge with this device connected to battery :P | 09:14 |
| buZz | maybe not while its inside n900 | 09:14 |
| jonwil | I dont know for sure that my USB is broken | 09:16 |
| jonwil | That item doesn't help though because waiting for crap to come from china on a slow boat is useless to me | 09:16 |
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| KotCzarny | if you order today, it should arrive eventually | 09:17 |
| KotCzarny | and having some tools is always useful | 09:17 |
| jonwil | But that wont help me with my immediate need to get a full BL-5J somehow | 09:18 |
| KotCzarny | yes, that's why you can order, and keep searching for immediate solutions too | 09:18 |
| KotCzarny | having universal li-ion charger in the house could save you later | 09:18 |
| jonwil | At this point I dont want to spend any money I don't need to | 09:22 |
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| buZz | jonwil: you can pay loads extras for superfast shipping ^_^ | 09:34 |
| buZz | maybe you have a toy quadcopter? or other RC vehicle | 09:35 |
| buZz | those often use 1 cell, and very dumb chargers that'll just work fine | 09:35 |
| KotCzarny | powerbanks are cheaper | 09:38 |
| KotCzarny | especially those tiny 1-cell ones | 09:38 |
| buZz | just thinking what jonwil might have around | 09:40 |
| KotCzarny | sand | 09:40 |
| buZz | :) | 09:40 |
| KotCzarny | and killer nature | 09:40 |
| buZz | meh, all my 3.5-3.5mm audio cables are shit :P | 09:43 |
| buZz | just finished https://imgur.com/a/jk50e | 09:43 |
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| vectis3 | Nokia 5800 XpressMusic uses the same battery as the N900 | 10:33 |
| jonwil | No I dont have any drones | 10:34 |
| jonwil | or powerbanks | 10:34 |
| jonwil | Other than the new cheap phone and the N900, everything I have that takes batteries only takes regular batteries, not rechargeables or Li-Ion | 10:35 |
| jonwil | I have nothing that can charge a Li-Ion except the non-working N900 | 10:36 |
| KotCzarny | you need new friends | 10:36 |
| KotCzarny | that have phones with batteries | 10:36 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 10:36 |
| jonwil | I am investigating options to get hold of something that can charge the batteries I have | 10:37 |
| jonwil | I did some searches and one store that has outlets in my town has something called a "Universal Li-ion/Ni-Cd/Ni-MH Battery Charger" | 10:41 |
| jonwil | It says "• Suitable for: 1 x 3.6V or 7.2V Li-ion battery packs" | 10:42 |
| jonwil | The bl-5J is 3.7v though | 10:42 |
| jonwil | Anyhow, this store is somewhere I wouldn't have thought of looking | 10:42 |
| buZz | jonwil: should work though! if only just to charge ~10% , and then you can finalize charge on n900 | 10:44 |
| buZz | if usb works | 10:44 |
| jonwil | I will visit this chain and maybe other places as well with my BL-5J batteries and ask if they have anything external that is capable of charging them | 10:45 |
| jonwil | They may have other products that can do it | 10:45 |
| jonwil | Or maybe they will suggest this one as being suitable | 10:45 |
| jonwil | Either way I will see what I can find | 10:46 |
| buZz | yeah i did see some external bl-5j chargers | 10:46 |
| buZz | and also universal ones | 10:46 |
| KotCzarny | jonwil, li-ion and li-poly charge similarly | 10:46 |
| KotCzarny | there are tiny differences | 10:46 |
| KotCzarny | but should be safe to get 80-90% of the charge into battery | 10:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or you just connect a USB PSU that doesn't provide more than 1000mA, for a max 30 min, while checking the battery temperature | 10:51 |
| jonwil | I will look into that charger since if it works for BL-5J it will mean I have a safe long-term-usable external charger for the things which will be good. | 10:56 |
| buZz | \o/ | 10:58 |
| buZz | more toys is more fun anway | 10:58 |
| jonwil | I also posted on an Aussie forum full of electronics geeks that I follow in case they have any leads | 10:59 |
| jonwil | Worst that can happen is I get no response on there and I move on :) | 11:00 |
| buZz | maybe you're near to one of these? https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Australia | 11:00 |
| jonwil | There is one in Brisbane but its very far away from me | 11:00 |
| buZz | yeah you guys are just a bit to unpopulated :P | 11:00 |
| buZz | breed faster! | 11:01 |
| buZz | ^_^ | 11:01 |
| buZz | higher population density gets you more of these closer to you | 11:01 |
| jonwil | Brisbane is very populated, we just dont have cheap real estate to set up such things as hackerspaces | 11:01 |
| buZz | hmhm, well once you have enough ppl, rent doesnt matter a lot any more | 11:01 |
| buZz | here you can rent a office 'anti-squat' for ~250 euro , i guess ~350 aud a month | 11:02 |
| buZz | 378.25 , i was close :P | 11:02 |
| KotCzarny | oh, charging li-ion with 5v? not a bright idea | 11:03 |
| jonwil | Definitely not | 11:03 |
| buZz | it wont prolong its lifetime :P | 11:03 |
| jonwil | Not when it says 3.7v on the battery itself | 11:03 |
| buZz | well internal resistance would push the voltage down anyway | 11:04 |
| buZz | especially when uncharged | 11:04 |
| jonwil | I will visit some shops tomorrow and see what I can find in the way of chargers. | 11:04 |
| buZz | but if a li+ is below 2.8V , many chargers reject it | 11:04 |
| buZz | and the 'just apply some power for some time' really does work to 'revive' it | 11:04 |
| buZz | it wont be a good battery | 11:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | aah the experts | 11:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | take a few classes basic physics, then understand that a LiIon will explode when you charge it TO 5V | 11:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but you can't charge it WITH 5V, you can however charge it with less than 1000mA | 11:23 |
| inz | Fun when done intentionally, accidentally not that much | 11:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and then BL-5J has built-in protection circuit that can handle at least up to 12V | 11:24 |
| KotCzarny | lol | 11:25 |
| KotCzarny | jonwil, go for it :P | 11:25 |
| KotCzarny | doc said you can | 11:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and odds are ypour super duper universal charger is relying on that exclusively, charging the LiIon "with" 10V | 11:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or do you think it has built-in AI that decides ift that's a NiCd, NiMH, 3V6 or 7V2 LiIon? | 11:27 |
| KotCzarny | it might have physical switch | 11:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I highly doubt that | 11:27 |
| KotCzarny | for nimh/nicd, they are charged similarly | 11:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 11:28 |
| KotCzarny | not the same, but similarly | 11:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually yiu need -delta V for NiMH | 11:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you charge NiMH in a NiCd charger, odds are they run away | 11:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | their cel voltage _drops_ when they get hot | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so they draw more current and get hotter.... | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | A NiMH charger detects that drop in voltage | 11:30 |
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| KotCzarny | ok, you might be right that you can connect usb power to discharged li-ion, but you dont have any way of current limiting in such setup | 11:31 |
| jonwil | the universal charger I found has an LCD screen and a bunch of buttons/settings by the look of it | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read what I said | 11:31 |
| KotCzarny | so the only way to check the state of charge would be either temperature or measuring voltage on battery periodically | 11:31 |
| jonwil | so you can probably tell it what sort of battery you have | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | USB power itself has mandatory current limit | 11:31 |
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| KotCzarny | doc, yes, but it's usually only good when liion is discharged | 11:32 |
| jonwil | Anyhow when I go to the shops tomorrow I will either find something I can use or know what I can try | 11:32 |
| KotCzarny | once its 30-50% full you have to limit current yourself | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you can safely assume that an empty 1320mAh battery will cope with 30min of 1000mA | 11:32 |
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| KotCzarny | umkay | 11:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | KotCzarny: do you really think you can mess with an EE with 50 years experience about battery charging? | 11:33 |
| KotCzarny | hehe | 11:33 |
| KotCzarny | but there is still human factor | 11:34 |
| KotCzarny | in such uncontrolled setup, user can forget about it | 11:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I even calculated that too, I know jonwil for a few years now | 11:34 |
| KotCzarny | and have a tiny bomb waiting | 11:34 |
| KotCzarny | lol | 11:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this procedure suggestion was tailored exactly for him and is not suitable for anybody else. Usually I strictly discourage that procedure for charging batteries | 11:35 |
| jonwil | I cant go with raw USB anyway since I have no spare USB cables and no way to expose the power wires | 11:36 |
| jonwil | no tools suitable | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I knpow when I tell jonwil he must limit time to 30min and keep the battery temperature checked closely during that time, he will understand what that means# | 11:36 |
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| jonwil | I will understand what it means | 11:36 |
| jonwil | But I dont have the patience to babysit a battery for 30 minutes | 11:37 |
| jonwil | I will go to the electronics and battery shops tomorrow and see what I can find and then go from there | 11:37 |
| jonwil | Either I end up with a suitable charger (which I can then use going forward as a general purpose USB charger) or I end up with nothing and I look for the next plan (whatever that might be) | 11:37 |
| KotCzarny | you will probably still have to fiddle to connect bl-5j to it | 11:39 |
| jonwil | yeah probably but if I need wires or whatever I can buy them somewhere as well | 11:40 |
| freemangordon_ | jonwil: there are some cheapo chinese "universal" chargers that actually work | 11:40 |
| KotCzarny | fmg: remember he is in australia | 11:40 |
| jonwil | This model I am seeing online is probably a cheapo chinese charger brought in by this company and marked up to $50 | 11:41 |
| freemangordon_ | so, no "made in china" import? i DOUBT :) | 11:41 |
| KotCzarny | fmg, not with his impatience | 11:41 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 11:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the cheapest "universal charger" I ever seen had a plastic case, two spring wires to attach to the battery contacts, a mains plug, a capacitor and a diode for rectifying and limiting mains current | 11:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | damn, what a dangerous and brainfucked device | 11:41 |
| freemangordon_ | DocScrutinizer05: no, what I am talking about is a smart one, it detects the battery polarity etc | 11:41 |
| freemangordon_ | I guess the charge current is some 200-300 mA, but still | 11:42 |
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