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| KotCzarny | http://www.techamok.com/?pid=18494 | 07:43 |
|---|---|---|
| KotCzarny | and we are worrying about security of our n900s ;) | 07:43 |
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| Maxdamantus | I'd be more concerned with someone hacking my phone than my TV. | 11:52 |
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| kerio | Maxdamantus: until you realize that a bunch of those "smart" TVs have a microphone | 13:23 |
| kerio | and also constant access to high quality internet | 13:23 |
| kerio | rather than sporadic access through mobile internet on a battery | 13:23 |
| Maxdamantus | I wouldn't imagine sporadic access would be much of an issue. | 13:24 |
| Maxdamantus | and people often have their phones on them wherever they go. | 13:24 |
| Maxdamantus | so they're probably going to pick up at least everything a TV would. | 13:24 |
| kerio | yes but it's much harder to run a botnet node on a phone | 13:24 |
| kerio | a TV has wall power and home internet | 13:25 |
| Maxdamantus | a botnet for what purpose? data acquisition? | 13:25 |
| Maxdamantus | Don't see why it would be harder there. | 13:25 |
| Maxdamantus | When the internet is available, upload the data. Done. | 13:25 |
| kerio | because if you run a botnet node on a phone you'll run the battery dry | 13:25 |
| Maxdamantus | Are you thinking of a DDoS node or what? | 13:26 |
| kerio | that, too | 13:26 |
| kerio | idk, bitcoin mining | 13:26 |
| kerio | i mean you're not going to get randomly blackmailed through your TV | 13:26 |
| kerio | but if it's some slightly more targeted attack, you might | 13:26 |
| kerio | and it's waaaaay easier to stay covert in a tv than in a phone | 13:27 |
| Maxdamantus | Why is it easier? | 13:27 |
| kerio | because wall power and beefy internet | 13:27 |
| kerio | likely unmetered internet | 13:28 |
| kerio | (or metered much higher) | 13:28 |
| Maxdamantus | I meant why is it easier to stay covert? | 13:28 |
| kerio | because all you need is to not interfere with TV and movies | 13:28 |
| Maxdamantus | If you're talking about data acquisition, you really shouldn't need much. | 13:28 |
| Maxdamantus | You can probably get usable audio data into less than 4 kb/s | 13:29 |
| kerio | except that 4kb/s through landline internet from a wall powered device is effectively nothing | 13:30 |
| kerio | 4kb/s on a mobile connection on a battery-powered phone is HUMONGOUS | 13:30 |
| Maxdamantus | You wouldn't actually be transmitting 4 kb/s constantly. | 13:31 |
| Maxdamantus | You'd apply some simple filter to avoid transmitting stuff that's obviously junk. | 13:32 |
| Maxdamantus | the 4 kb/s is only when you actually have stuff to transmit. | 13:32 |
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| kerio | ok so you're just keeping my cpu away from zero clock all the time | 13:46 |
| kerio | yea draining my battery in like 5 hours is not going to be noticeable at all | 13:46 |
| kerio | 10/10 malware | 13:46 |
| Maxdamantus | I probably wouldn't notice anyway since I have an ssh connection open the vast majority of the time it's not charging. | 13:47 |
| Maxdamantus | also, I suspect audio wouldn't be the most interesting thing. | 13:51 |
| Maxdamantus | on a phone you have access to much more than that, and it doesn't involve running something constantly while it's meant to be in standby. | 13:51 |
| KotCzarny | you keep forgetting that technology is changing | 14:03 |
| KotCzarny | and smarttvs are plain computers | 14:03 |
| KotCzarny | and there will be more and more done via tv | 14:03 |
| KotCzarny | and actually connecting tv via broadband makes it botnet node that's more powerful than smartphone | 14:04 |
| KotCzarny | and as mentioned earlier, almost undetectable by the user | 14:05 |
| KotCzarny | and botnets have plenty of uses, downloaders, spammers, ddosers, blackmail proxies | 14:05 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | I have the power button working in my Debian image. Now I'd like to turn on the backlight. I'll investigate, but if meanwhile someone may point me to the right direction, I'd appreciate it a lot. | 17:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sigh | 20:22 |
| enyc | DocScrutinizer05: ?? | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: /sys/class/backlight/acx565akm/brightness | 20:23 |
| Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 There's no such file. | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then your drivers are crap | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm very sorry but this is exactly the point where your questions are totally off topic for this channel, mind you we're #maemo here | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even if I'd feel like, I coultdn't help you out since I don't know the system you built | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe that much: I used find /sys -name brightness | 20:29 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ok, no problem. I asked here since this is a question related to the N900 hardware (yes, also to Debian, of course). | 20:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/29148570 | 20:31 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Thank you. I think these files are only found in Maemo. I'm trying to install the package fso-deviced-n900, which I found at Debian.org after googling a bit. | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | excellent udea :-) finally somebody uses FSO | 20:34 |
| Enrico_Menotti | What's FSO? | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FreeSmartPhone | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 'made by openmoko' | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually by Mickey who's a senior key sw engineer of OM back when | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~fso | 20:41 |
| infobot | from memory, fso is the freesmartphone.org mobile devices middleware. http://www.freesmartphone.org// | 20:41 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ah ok. I didn't get the acronym. | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.freesmartphone.org//specs/org.freesmartphone.Device.Display/ | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.freesmartphone.org//specs/org.freesmartphone.Device.Display/#SetBrightness | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | re "not found" - it seems the acx565akm module is monolithic in maemo kernel. Makes sense for activating display early in boot | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you need to check that acx565akm module sourcecode and docs to find what's the location/name of the backlight brightness and power control | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe even moved to /dev ? | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | try `find /sys /dev /proc -iname brightness -ls` | 20:52 |
| Enrico_Menotti | I got this: https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/fso-deviced/fsodeviced.1.en.html. Maybe? | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or `find / -path '*acx565*' -ls` | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that sourcecode will also know where to look for that device control node | 20:55 |
| freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: there is something like /sys/class/backlight | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I *bet* it has a node "brightness" | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi freemangordon | 20:56 |
| Enrico_Menotti | This is in Maemo, right? But I don't find such a path in Debian. Maybe I missed some step. | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then your kernel has no driver for the display | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though N900 backlight control is particularly tricky on a hw level | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can enable it via two methods | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | acx565akm as well as CPU GPIO or PWM has control over backlight | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never *really* understoof what Nokia built there | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | understood* | 20:59 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | I'd like to ask a few more things, but I don't want to be off topic. Where should I head to? | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dcebian? | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | debian even | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, ask here, maybe it's sufficiently on topic for maemo too | 21:26 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Well, I installed fso-deviced-n900, but I don't understand how it works. And now the power button is not working again. Is it possible that this new package has overridden Debian's standard power management, but the configuration file is not set properly? | 21:27 |
| Sicelo | your questions are generally on topic .. just that you don't make them very easy to understand/parse :) | 21:30 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Sicelo Sorry... :( If I may, I'd try to explain better. Please let me know what is unclear. | 21:31 |
| Sicelo | i mean .. in general .. i have no idea about your current question, having never used that package | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, fsodeviced takes care about power button too. it's a daemon (as suggests the ending "d" in name) and you talk to it via dbus and a dbus-binding to your own app, or simply via dbus-send | 21:35 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Before this package, I had installed acpi-support-base, and I didn't have to do anything to use it. After installation, the power button just worked fine. | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manuals/SHR#FSO_Resources | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO_Resources | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO_Resources#Automatic_way | 21:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | mdbus=dbus-send | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just better ;-) | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: you're configuring a systen. So there's no drop-in functionality | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. you can't expect to e.g. install fsodeviced and have a nice GUI to adjust backlight brightness | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | neither does installing X11 bring you a desktop environment | 21:48 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ok. I'm trying to set up the daemon by working on the file system while the device is off, from my host computer. First thing, I'd like to be able to read the messages which appear at boot, in order to understand whether the daemon starts at all. But I don't find any place where they are logged. This is clearly a #debian question. I asked there. I'm waiting. | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and installing a standard debian system will most definitely give you systemd which in turn introduces a metric shitton of stuff you absolutely don't want on an embedded device, like SEAT management | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm afraid they will tell you something like "press ctrl-alt-F10 to see the console log" | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | low level system stuff on embedded differs massively from the usual desktop PC situation | 21:52 |
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| Sicelo | if the daemon starts, surely `ps` should show it? | 21:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm absolutely no expert here (ask Pali or freemangordon or a few others in here), but I guess what you want first is a kernel cmdline parameter like "consile=fb" or somesuch | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: aiui he doesn't even have a shell yet | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise, sure | 21:56 |
| Sicelo | where did he have backlight working? | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nowhere? | 21:57 |
| Enrico_Menotti | In fact, nowhere. | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do you have a shell access? | 21:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | either ssh or console? | 21:58 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Non root. Well, really not right now, but I know how to from yesterday. I could try to setup ssh. | 21:59 |
| Enrico_Menotti | But I thought it would have been better first to enable power button, so I may shutdown without opening the back cover and removing the battery, and backlight, so I may read messages from the system. | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, a shell to system is the very first thing you want. Usually this isn't on device (via display and kbd) in an early system bringup phase | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: makes sense | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though shutdown works from console too | 22:01 |
| Enrico_Menotti | If you are root... | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, of course. What else could you be in an early system bringup stage | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | heck, I guess SHR has only root account as only user still today :-P | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo has one user "user" which is basically used for X11 only | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on boot console you're root no matter what | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but on enbedded, accessing console is usually tricky or even impossible | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: so I got it you can log in but not as root? | 22:10 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Well, by copying the passwd and shadow files I have been able to log in as std user. I could log as root if I'd change the password to alphabetic. I don't have proper keyboard layout. But this would mean changing password on my computer as well. Of course I could do that, if I don't find another way. | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how do you log in? via ssh? ssh has a config parameter that forbids root logins | 22:11 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | No, I log in on the device. I can see almost nothing, though. | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah I see | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you actually already have display working (not backlight though)? | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | log in as root is probably not even meant to be allowed at all in debian and particularly ubuntu, afaik. Anyway have you tries `sudo su -` ? | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tried* | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in debian/ubunto standard config this would ask for USER password, NOT root password | 22:16 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | Yes, I have display working, without backlight. I will also try that way. Before that, I'd like to investigate a bit more about message logging. | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how the heck are you going to look at logs that are root-only permission, when you don't have root access to device? | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | get your priorities sorted | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe find a good story about system bringup somewhere | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | inevitably fist thing is to make kernel start and have access to console. Next thing is to have a nonconsole access to device, via normal RS232 or USB or whatever terminal aka shell | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as ROOT | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | console needed to debug early kernel error messages. Once you got root shell access, you can do whatever you like to bring up rest of system, configure logging, whatever | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as soon as you have working shell access as root, you can even look at kernel console messages in buffer, using dmesg | 22:42 |
| Enrico_Menotti | I was thinking about reading the logs by accessing some file on the filesystem when the latter is mounted on my host computer. | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so when your kernel actually comes up so much you even can log in as user, GET ROOT!!! | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah sure, why bother about the basement when you could try to fix the roof | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | man rsyslogd | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to read "messages" in a logfile, you fist need to set up the logging service, for which you need root to do so | 22:47 |
| Enrico_Menotti | I was thinking about specifying some parameter when booting the kernel. But anyway, I will try to get root. | 22:49 |
| Zungo | yeah being non quiet will really help | 22:52 |
| Zungo | Do everything you need by editing the filesystem then get it to run correctly | 22:53 |
| Zungo | as joerg said, sort your priorities Enrico_Menotti | 22:53 |
| Zungo | :| | 22:53 |
| * Zungo shrugs | 22:53 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | let me put it this way: when you have a complete system and it doesn't come up because some services are not starting and you can't even log in (as root, or change to root, or sudo stuff with root permissions), the way to solve this is not by throwing MORE services onto the system to get some way to accomplish fixing stuff without root. The method is to DISable services as much as possible and first get root, then start the failing | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | service interactively (not as daemon) in a root shell and see what's the diagnostic output | 23:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and the very first service you need to set up is either a mingetty or sshd to log in to the system as ROOT, to do all the rest | 23:08 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | Ok. I am root on the device. But I can see almost nothing. | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you actually already got a (min)getty on a console and all that lacks is root login (or sudo su -) and the backlight, you fix the login issue and then you find the control node to enable and adjust brightness of the backlight | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're lucky N900 has a transfexive display, all you need is sufficient ambient light to read console | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this will suffice to find and config the backlight | 23:13 |
| Enrico_Menotti | In any case, now I'm logged in as root. | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | great, so do `find /sys -iname '*brightness*'` | 23:16 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | I don't have the special characters on the keyboard, acc... | 23:16 |
| Enrico_Menotti | :) | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | find /sys -iname brightness | 23:17 |
| Enrico_Menotti | How, if I can't type / and - ? | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or cd ..; cd ..; cd ..; find sys -iname brightness | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't know which mexmapping your system has | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | keymapping* | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the reason why you want ssh, but that needs a network connection either via USB networking or via wifi | 23:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | there are other options like serial console via testpoints and debug fixture, or attach a USB or BT keyboard which needs loading the drivers for such stuff, incl USB hostmode or BT drivers | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you most likely don't want to do that | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what you want is most likely WiFi setup and then sshd access | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for WiFi it helps a lot if your system has that stuff already somewhat configured, so the firmware gets loaded to the wifi module and you can use ifup or sth like that | 23:26 |
| Enrico_Menotti | I cannot do anything with this keyboard. It only has alphabetic characters. This is why I was first trying to shed some light, and adjust the keyboard. Of course I'd try to ssh. But in this situation I don't see a solution other than setting it up by accessing the file system from the host computer. | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then you can use ifup, ifconfig, route and iwconfig commands to connect device to WLAN | 23:28 |
| Enrico_Menotti | ifup wlan0? | 23:28 |
| Enrico_Menotti | How to type the 0? | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ahain: I don't know which keymapping you got | 23:29 |
| Enrico_Menotti | As I said, just alphabetic characters. :( | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fill your .bash_history file with a few useful commands and a complete list of characters to choose from | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fix your kbd mappinh | 23:30 |
| Enrico_Menotti | The bash history wouldn't work, since I don't have the up arrow either. All keys which are toggled by the blue arrow at the left of the keyboard don't work. I need to fix the kbd mapping. | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkey mapping | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys mapping | 23:37 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'mapping' by key (5): karnaugh mapping ;; mip mapping ;; so the memory mapping #DEL# ;; n900-kbd-mapping ;; texture mapping. | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~n900-kbd-mapping | 23:38 |
| infobot | i guess vi-kbd is http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | consider https://github.com/stuart12/n900_scripts/blob/master/n900vnc maybe | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but that obviously will need X11 running on N900 | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so nevermind | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ouch, those all are about X11 xmodmap etc | 23:58 |
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