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| Linkandzelda | is it true that moving swap to sd card speeds up things? is there a way to test if the microsd is actually faster? i can imagine some cases were it would be a bottleneck | 06:45 |
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| freemangordon | Linkandzelda: yep, it is true. But make sure you have good SD card with fast random IO, like sammy pro cards | 09:48 |
| KotCzarny | uh, wrong channel | 09:49 |
| freemangordon | hmm? | 09:49 |
| KotCzarny | i've answered Linkandzelda on wrong channel | 09:49 |
| KotCzarny | just noticed | 09:49 |
| freemangordon | ah :) | 09:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: Linkandzelda: http://paste.opensuse.org/43972960 | 12:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | swap on uSD is _not_ per se faster than eMMC, it's a 4bit interface vs 8bit on eMMC and clock rate is comparable. What speeds up stuff is when you unebtangle storage access between swap and e.g. any read/write IO on rootfs | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unentangle* | 12:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | what's also very relevant (and not at all focused in my simple tests above) is write performance which is highly dependent on controller strategy and architecture (how much buffer RAM, page size, handling of truncate for empty pages that don't need erase, **erase performance**, etc pp) | 12:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a page erase may take as long as 0.1s | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so it's very desirable behavior when the controller does background page erase to always have a sufficient number of clean pages that can get written to without prior erase | 12:57 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if maemo mounts the MMCs with "discard" option, if even the kernel knows that option already | 12:58 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# mount|grep mmc | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /home type ext3 (noatime,nodiratime,errors=continue,commit=1,data=writeback) | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noatime,nodiratime,noauto,nodev,exec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0000,rodir) | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/mmcblk1p2 on /media/mmc1p2 type ext3 (rw,noatime,nodiratime,noauto,nodev,exec,nosuid,data=writeback) | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat (rw,noatime,nodiratime,noauto,nodev,exec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0000,rodir) | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FFS! Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 vs https://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/SSD/TRIM/ >>Online Discard ext4 Kernel 2.6.33<< | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ^^^ | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Batched Discard ext2, ext3, Kernel 2.6.38 | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now THAT qualifies for a sound reason to finally update kernel in CSSU | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, flash storage without truncate/discard? a nogo | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aka TRIM | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: http://www.sammypro.com/ ??? | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I still think genuine SanDisk are prolly the best cards | 13:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or are you talking about Samsung? | 13:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://bgr.com/2016/07/07/fastest-256gb-microsd-card-samsung-ufs/ | 13:20 |
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| Bitnotri | So guys I'm coming back to n900 after a long hiatus. I love writing notes on it and that's mainly what I've been doing with it, making it my ultra-portable journal. | 14:10 |
| Bitnotri | However in the past I used to read books, browse web and have a wide array of apps on it which are no longer usable | 14:11 |
| Bitnotri | What should I do to make n900 run as smoothly as possible in 2016? | 14:11 |
| Bitnotri | What OS is the best to put on n900 right now? | 14:12 |
| zGrr | Harmattan+CSSU | 14:15 |
| Bitnotri | Thanks | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | harmattan? hardly | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Bitnotri: | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu | 14:16 |
| infobot | i heard cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) | 14:16 |
| Bitnotri | What would you say is the best option DocScrutinizer05? | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Bitnotri: forget harmattan | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Bitnotri: see above | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a fresh reflash often also works wonders | 14:17 |
| Bitnotri | What about some projects such as DebianN900? | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what about it? | 14:18 |
| Bitnotri | Would it be a better option? | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | depends | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see any advantage over a easydeb chroot | 14:18 |
| Bitnotri | What factors should I consider? | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no other OS release than maemo fremantle that's better adapted to support every aspect of the hw platform | 14:20 |
| Bitnotri | I've reflashed my device in the past, tried to install those community ssus. I may have done the job wrong, however the problems I've head previously with the web browser in particular didn't disappear. It may be different now so it may be worth the shot | 14:20 |
| Bitnotri | Have you tried harmattan or other distributions? How did you like it? | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | web brosing nowadays is a task that even i5 PC with 8GB RAM can suck | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's not the browsers' fault but the culprit are idiot "webdesigners" | 14:21 |
| Bitnotri | Yeah, but even stripped of css and js would be good | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | harmattan doesn't work on N900 | 14:21 |
| Bitnotri | Period? | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a complete wrong hint | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo harmattan is for Nokia N9, NOT N900 | 14:22 |
| Bitnotri | what do you think about debian900? | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nothing, I never seen a reason to try it | 14:23 |
| Bitnotri | Ok, thanks. Would it be hard to reverse if I tried it? | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _if_ I needed to run apps than can't run under plain Fremantle since they need nifty new features only found in newer debian versions, I'd go for a easydeb chroot for that purpose | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reverse? | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you mean go back to maemo? | 14:24 |
| Bitnotri | Yup | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | baby simple, do | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~lazyflashing | 14:24 |
| infobot | lazyflashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you also could install dualboot via uBoot | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to have debian and maemo as boottime alternatives | 14:25 |
| Bitnotri | Ok, thanks for all the help, I've got a lot of reading and installing to do :) | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw :-) | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | note that with backupmenu you also can create comprehensive backup of your complete maemo system, to roll back to that very state later on | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm | 14:27 |
| infobot | rumour has it, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install | 14:27 |
| Bitnotri | Oh, that seems really useful. Thank you ;) | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw :-) | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also not | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~multiboot | 14:28 |
| infobot | well, multiboot is http://maemo.org/packages/view/multiboot/, or **DEPRECATED*, see ~maemo-multiboot | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~maemo-multiboot | 14:28 |
| infobot | it has been said that maemo-multiboot is deprecated, and a horrible hack. PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also note* but what I wrote was as good ;-) | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe useful, unless you never touched cmdline: | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 14:29 |
| infobot | it has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 14:29 |
| Bitnotri | Nah, I'm an active ubuntu user so I can handle cli ;) | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for CSSU I recommend Testing | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't go for cssu-thumb until you learned what exactly it is and which are the implications of using it | 14:30 |
| Bitnotri | ok | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~uboot | 14:31 |
| infobot | N900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, you might be interested in powerkernel, when you want to go fancy with your N900 | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it comes with support for a lot of goodies like ext4, netfilters, whatnot else | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~kp | 14:33 |
| infobot | rumour has it, kp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94287 | 14:33 |
| Bitnotri | Would powerkernel help with n900 performance? | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not much | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cssu will help | 14:34 |
| Bitnotri | did you overclock your n900? | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just 2h ago I noticed N900 kernel do4esn't support TRIM for flash storage, which is a terrible flaw regarding performance, especially for swap | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | overclocking is basically useless | 14:35 |
| Bitnotri | Yeah, so I thought | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can overclock less than factor 2 which is still almost worthless for user experience | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the real performance hogs are swap | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and generally RAM shortage and storage IO bottleneck | 14:36 |
| Bitnotri | Can anything be done about it? | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | get a Neo900 ;-) - in 9 months | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thumb helps about RAM shortage a bit | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~thumb | 14:37 |
| infobot | somebody said cssu-thumb was <Doc_Scrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thumb code is significantly smaller than ARM instruction set | 14:38 |
| Bitnotri | neo900 seems like won't come out at all, it's been moving so slow for such a long time | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, it's hurting me | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we suffer one roadblock after the other | 14:38 |
| Bitnotri | Such it is without a major support | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now Nikolaus declared ultimate bail out on PCB layout, so the complete workflow and toolchain needs a redesign/re-evaluation | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're this very moment pondering to migrate fron cadsoft eagle to KiCad | 14:40 |
| Bitnotri | So you're actively working on neo900? | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as if there were no other urgent tasks pending | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 14:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900/2016-07-07 and https://neo900.org/git/?p=misc;a=log;pg=1 | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Bitnotri: feel free to /join #neo900 | 14:48 |
| Bitnotri | Ok, I'm just not sure if I'd be able to contribute anything :P | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | np | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | every lurker is welcome too | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually considering that IRC #neo900 is our most up-to-date and realtime communication channel with the highest traffic, I'm happy about each prospect customer having a look in there to notice the project is not entirely dead | 14:51 |
| Bitnotri | Ok, I'll definitely check it out then | 14:51 |
| Bitnotri | Does any web browser work reasonably well on your n900? | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we suck terribly on lack of a decent communications officer who could update the webpage with new info, answer threads in forum and email, etc | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (browser) tbh nope | 14:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's sufficent for important selected tasks like online banking, checking my share-service at maemo.cloud-7.de etc | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but then I'm possibly not the right person to ask since I'm not much html-centric at all | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I use xterm more often than microB (or any browser), on N900 | 14:53 |
| Bitnotri | ok | 14:53 |
| Sicelo | microb good enough for me. i don't really use any other browser | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for a quick fixing of the WLAN modem router in my favorite pub, when the owner messed it op one more, microB is just sufficently working | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: same here | 14:55 |
| Sicelo | also supports client certificates just fine .. haven't found another one on N900 that has that :) | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | watching YT videos is something I'm actually missing. Evcen while I learned now there's cutetube2 | 14:55 |
| Bitnotri | Oh I remember that app, it was really nice | 14:56 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 - on a completely unrelated sidenote - points at (http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/session-log_enable-catalogs_README.txt and) http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/enable-catalogs | 14:58 | |
| Sicelo | it still works fine Bitnotri (cutetube2) | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and ~jrrepos | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrrepos | 14:58 |
| infobot | rumour has it, jrrepos is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/ | 14:58 |
| Sicelo | then again .. i'm not big on YT either | 14:58 |
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| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: thanks for the test. i have a 32gb sandisk pro xchc uhs1 or something. will look into moving swap to it and see what happens. i noticed when streaming internet radio the device slows down a whole lot and i get the feeling its swaping a lot | 15:12 |
| Sicelo | what bit rates for your streams? mine doesn't slow down | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iotop ftw | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iotop and htop | 15:15 |
| Linkandzelda | Sicelo: 192 kbps | 15:16 |
| Linkandzelda | when streaming it shows puleaudio using between 14-20% cpu | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, pukeaudio sucks | 15:16 |
| Linkandzelda | and of course battery drops massive | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linkandzelda: note that N900 neither can use UHS nor xdhc | 15:18 |
| Linkandzelda | didnt think so, but it would it be able to use the standard functionalities right? | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but odds are a UHS capable uSD is actually fast enough to run at max speed N900 can do | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:19 |
| Linkandzelda | my thoughts too | 15:19 |
| Linkandzelda | and is it safe for me to run the same tests you just did? | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc that would be 40MHz clock at 4bit bus width | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | those tests are considered safe by me | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no warranty | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my uSD is actually a little dusty already | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might easily be 6 years old | 15:21 |
| Linkandzelda | ive got another process using cpu here | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | **kill it** hehehe | 15:21 |
| Linkandzelda | mafw-dbus-wrapper mafw-gst-renderer | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's audio playback | 15:22 |
| Linkandzelda | using between 7-14% cpu | 15:22 |
| Linkandzelda | leaving the average while streaming and doing nothing being 50% usage, thats high i guess | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/35212726 | 15:23 |
| Linkandzelda | i see | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/08/plasma-desktophc2277.png | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's idle system | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | during audio playback mafw and polypaudio will be CPU hogs | 15:25 |
| Linkandzelda | any tweaks for pulse? | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all tweaks so far fired back afaik | 15:26 |
| Linkandzelda | ah, shame | 15:26 |
| Linkandzelda | well its ok | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | recompiling that shit without debug output might help a little | 15:26 |
| Linkandzelda | can you explain what those dd commands are doing exactly? | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | many peaple tried to fix suspected flaws in PA, it necer panned out to the better iirc | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dd copies raw chunks of 1Mbyte data from physical device (if=) to nirvana (of=/dev/null) | 15:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no partitions, no filesystem involved. Using raw IO without buffering (iflag=direct) | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | without iflag=direct you still will see effects from regular filesystem buffering which may hold parts of the data to read in RAM buffers | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least all this is how I hipe stuff works ;-) | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hope* | 15:31 |
| Linkandzelda | fair enough, as long as there is no loss then thats all that matters, right hehe | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you may go for larger amount of test data, with count=500 or even 1000 | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | multiply by bLOCKsIZE= which is 1 Mbyte | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so bs=1M count=1000 will read 1GB data | 15:33 |
| Oksanaa | What's up with kernel-power upgrade? /just curious, aptitude does not cite changelog/ | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | same for bs=1000M count=1, but that might allocate insane size of program internal buffer in RAM | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Oksanaa: is there any new update supposed to be around? | 15:34 |
| Oksanaa | Well, I just did aptitude update upgrade and got it | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then maybe that's a good instance why you shouldn't do upgrade ;-) | 15:35 |
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| fishbulb | hey I've got some version of fmms that doesn't work | 15:36 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: on an off note, when i type "root" and enter pass, it seems to put me in busybox, since dd gave a syntax error and mention busybox. after i typed "bash" then tried dd again its working as expected. ive got shells set in /etc/passwd for both user and root to /bin/bash. any way i can fix that issue? | 15:37 |
| Oksanaa | hmm, how so? /cssu-thumb-testing if it helps/ fmms? cool, let's check if I have it installed, did once half-receive mms with it | 15:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly curses his current IRC client version that doesn't (yet) support notes attached to users | 15:37 | |
| fishbulb | I think it came from a dev repo | 15:37 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: or actually not, it seems to put me in bash the first time but still references the dd binary from busybox, or something, im not sure | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linkandzelda: tbh I never bothered. I always considered it safer and not sufficently annoying to stray from doing "root; bash" each time I log in | 15:39 |
| * Oksanaa has fmms installed, yes | 15:39 | |
| fishbulb | ok but it won't be the same as mine | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linkandzelda: `which dd` | 15:39 |
| Linkandzelda | i see | 15:39 |
| fishbulb | is KotCzarny here? | 15:40 |
| fishbulb | he wrote fmms right | 15:40 |
| Oksanaa | fishbulb: fmms 1.3.4, according to dpkg | 15:40 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: /bin/dd | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# which dd | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/bin/gnu/dd | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls -l /bin/dd | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2014-12-06 12:39 /bin/dd -> busybox | 15:41 |
| Linkandzelda | why lol | 15:41 |
| Linkandzelda | http://pastebin.com/K0CPa3cd | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# echo $PATH | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin/gnu:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin/gnu:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11 | 15:41 |
| Oksanaa | KotCzarny was idle for 5h 52min, so should return soon-ish | 15:41 |
| Linkandzelda | oh seems im missing stuff in path | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, frals wrote fmms | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's where the 'f' is from | 15:42 |
| fishbulb | history is fascinating | 15:42 |
| fishbulb | is frals ever here? | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pro hint: TAB usually does nick completion | 15:43 |
| fishbulb | but here as in present | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /whois frals | 15:44 |
| Oksanaa | frals: was idle : 5 days 15 hours 35 mins 58 secs | 15:44 |
| fishbulb | yerp. | 15:45 |
| Oksanaa | Send email to Nick Leppänen Larsson, aka frals .of the mysterious. frals .dot. se ? | 15:45 |
| fishbulb | nah | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however please don't expect to get a reasonable response to >>hey I've got some version of fmms that doesn't work<< which isn't even any question | 15:46 |
| fishbulb | I'm already not going to bother him by email | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linkandzelda: about "missing in PATH" see ~jrtools | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | .bashrc in there | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though you're of course free to pick any other approach to set the PATH of your liking | 15:47 |
| Oksanaa | Okay... Maybe, find something specific on how it misworks. Haven't tried to fmms myself, though. Have enough cellular-provider troubles without it | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I probably shouldn't recommend doing that for user:user .bashrc | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | using any other than messybox as default shell for user:user is known to have potential to fubar your system | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so does changing default PATH for user | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are a few messybox-isms in the xinit or whatever, that possibly lead to a bootloop | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough only for user, not for root | 15:50 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: yea i have that .bashrc, but its weird | 15:50 |
| Linkandzelda | when connecting via ssh/loading xterm it doesnt use it | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/75522475 | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ssh uses other login method | 15:51 |
| Linkandzelda | can i find where the .bashrc it uses is at? | 15:52 |
| Linkandzelda | since i get the same behaviour from xterm | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a nice exercise for an afternoon to read through the manpages for bash, shell, login, ssh(d) etc, to figure which startscripts are used with which shell and type of login | 15:53 |
| Linkandzelda | fair enough | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I was pretty surprised to find messybox source .bashrc | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which sucks in so many regards | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, in short: messybox sucks | 15:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox | 15:55 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus busybox-power is a pretty incorrect approach | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I strongly deprecate busybox-power | 15:57 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: found what the "root" script does, sudo gainroot --use-su | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and gainroot is funny too | 15:58 |
| Linkandzelda | HISTFILE=/root/.ash_history /bin/sh | 15:58 |
| Linkandzelda | its got a typo in /usr/bin/gainroot ? | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, why? | 15:58 |
| Linkandzelda | it should be bash_history i thought | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, please not | 15:58 |
| Linkandzelda | i see now it has its own path here in gainroot | 15:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm more than happy with "bash" being the _only_ entry in ~/ash_history | 15:59 |
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| Oksanaa | Old kernel version: 2.6.28.10-power51, and new one is power53. What the difference? | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/93685597 | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~kp | 16:00 |
| infobot | hmm... kp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94287 | 16:00 |
| Linkandzelda | is it dangerious to edit the PATH in /usr/sbin/gainroot ? | 16:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, possibly | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some fubar packages may depend on gainroot | 16:02 |
| Linkandzelda | would just like to add the paths you have from your regular path so it can pick up the non-bb dd | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | try it, but I strongly recommend to do a BM backup prior to that | 16:06 |
| Linkandzelda | ok i will do that | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you could restore the original gainroot file if shit hits the fan | 16:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, for that purpose prolly any old backup will do# | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as long as you restore only the gainroot file | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linkandzelda: you know all gnu cmds * are also available via /usr/bin/g* | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gdd in this case | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# which gdd | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/bin/gdd | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ll `which gdd` | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 2014-12-06 12:40 /usr/bin/gdd -> gnu/dd | 16:09 |
| Linkandzelda | yes, but i'll forget to use g too often | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it sucks :-) | 16:10 |
| Oksanaa | Ouch... Is it that difficult for maemo repositories to upgrade perl to something higher than 5.8? /just trying to install mosh/ | 16:12 |
| * Oksanaa should someday just go and feed various source packages into auto-builder. Well, they may need optification beforehand... | 16:14 | |
| Oksanaa | Has no gui > needs minimum of modification. But optification is really necessary | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | optification can get done semi-automatically | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# maemo-optify- | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo-optify-auto-opt.sh maemo-optify-firstboot.sh maemo-optify-lib.sh maemo-optify-make-mountbind.sh | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# less `which maemo-optify-auto-opt.sh ` | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# less /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf | 16:20 |
| Oksanaa | Is it recommended to put "/usr/bin" in here? Why not? | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because that's exactly the way to nuke your system | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | everything in /usr/bin/ that's not a symlink is probably there because it must not get optified | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification | 16:24 |
| infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | everything in /usr/bin/ that's not a symlink is probably also something that should have been installed in /bin instead of /usr/bin to start with | 16:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno which fool decided to pit stuff needed during early boot into /usr/* | 16:26 |
| * Oksanaa grumbles that qtoctave should have no problems being optified | 16:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | put* | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's clearly a duty of the distro maintainers to move stuff from /usr/bin to /bin when it is needed during early boot. See FHS | 16:27 |
| Oksanaa | Hmm, would be nice. What open-source packages are used during early boot and have things in /usr/bin or /usr/sbin? | 16:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's plain ridiculous to first build stuff for --prefix=/usr/bin, then go "OMG!! we need that during early boot, so let's move /usr/bin to rootfs where it's available during early boot. Then we optify everything in /usr/bin that is _not_ needed " | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((What open-source packages are used during early boot and have things in /usr/bin or /usr/sbin?)) check for symlinks | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | everything not a symlink is incorrectly put into /usr/ | 16:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | find /usr/bin -type f -ls | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vs find /usr/bin -type l -ls | 16:34 |
| Oksanaa | Let's see : Calendar.launch (closed-source?), mceledpattern (! totally not needed for boot ?) | 16:34 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 pukes at /usr/bin/setkeycodes -> /bin/busybox | 16:35 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though it's prolly even formally ok | 16:36 |
| Oksanaa | fmtx_client , and I should move my personal /usr/bin/randomscripts elsewhere (like, into aliases in /etc/profile or something) | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mceledpattern is only 35k | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is a candidate for optification, but not mandatory | 16:37 |
| Oksanaa | x11vnc and qtoctave are huge, around 1MB each? | 16:38 |
| Oksanaa | Xorg and python2.5, too | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs >>Developers are encouraged to make good use of them, specially for applications requiring more than 500 KB, including dependencies.<< err *cough* | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Oksanaa: huh? | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you won't go happy with optifying python or X11 | 16:40 |
| Oksanaa | x11vnc is not needed for boot, is it? | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but Xorg is, I guess | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | python 2.5 too | 16:41 |
| Oksanaa | Xorg is system-needed, though. Not going to move it around on my device | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also python *is* optified afaik | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it comes with its own otification by bindmount | 16:42 |
| Oksanaa | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1028632 May 18 2010 python2.5 | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mount|grep py | 16:42 |
| Oksanaa | lib python is optified, bin isn't | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, right: df -h `which python2.5` | 16:44 |
| Oksanaa | # ls -laSr /usr/bin/ | grep -v lrwx < the command I used for looking at not-optified /usr/bin | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why not find /usr/bin -type l -ls | 16:46 |
| Oksanaa | find doesn't like the options, just prints out Usage | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err -type f | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, get decent tools! | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox | 16:48 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | apt-get findutils | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | apt-get install findutils-gnu; even | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | X-P --> | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# apt-cache search findutil | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | busybox - Tiny utilities for small and embedded systems | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | findutils-gnu - utilities for finding files--find, xargs | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "Tiny SILLY FUBAR utilities..." | 16:51 |
| * Oksanaa has findutils-gnu installed | 16:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then maybe try gfind /usr/bin -type f -ls | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or fix your PATH | 16:52 |
| Oksanaa | Works, gfind. Output fairly same. So, x11vnc, qtoctave, and qtjs and gpg and some others | 16:54 |
| * Oksanaa finds the file list to be long | 16:54 | |
| Oksanaa | Could they be added to this /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf ? And when would it apply? | 16:56 |
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| * Oksanaa would only try x11vnc and qtoctave, for start; do not recognise others well enough | 16:57 | |
| Oksanaa | osso_pdfviewer, modest and mediaplayer also catch eye | 16:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ((Could they be added)) basically yes ((when would it apply)) during next boot -- however it may render your device locked in a bootloop | 17:07 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 suggests to profile boot process to find all the binaries needed during early boot (before mounting /opt) and then doing a major sanitation of this whole mess: move needed packages /usr/*7* -> /*/*, move /usr -> eMMC | 17:10 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly had hoped for *NOKIA* doing that with pr1.3, but nooooo | 17:11 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ponders to write maemo-antioptify* which does the exact opposite of optify: move all packages from /usr/?bin/* to /?bin/* that are _not_ subject to optification | 17:13 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | create symlinks for all those packages in the mointpoint dir of /usr, for best measure. | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | once /usr gets mounted, those symlinks would get covered | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we could have similar symlinks in /usr/*/ for any scripts that use absolute paths to commands | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could all get handled during early boot, immediately before /usr gets mounted to its final mointpoint dir, in that maemo-antioptify-auto-noopt.sh script | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mount /usr /to /mnt/usr so you can copy the needed binaries from /user/?bin|lib|whatnot to rootfs and create symlinks in /mnt/usr/*/* and /usr/*/* | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/copy/move | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then remount eMMC usr from /mnt/usr to /usr | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | finally delete antioptify-auto-noopt.sh (selfdestruct ;-D ) since it's never again needed | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | replace maemo-optify-auto-opt.sh by a oneliner: #!/bin/sh | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since that is also not needed anymore from now on | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | optification my ass! | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I had a reason to add ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"" to the ~optification factoid | 17:25 |
| Oksanaa | Troublesome, especially from deb-dpkg-file-tracking point of view. Will these packages be easy to upgrade, after such filesystem movements? | 17:34 |
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| * Sicelo is happy with the nokia battery he got for his N900 | 21:02 | |
| Sicelo | LMD = 1573mAh | 21:03 |
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| KotCzarny | sicelo: feelin awesome already? | 22:05 |
| Sicelo | i'm happy .. i know i could have bought a better battery via ebay, but that's really out of my reach | 22:14 |
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