| tissi | yeah qml browser | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| tissi | yeah didnt work for me either | 00:00 |
| tissi | was wondering if there was any progress | 00:00 |
| Sicelo009N | i use fennec at times | 00:01 |
| tissi | too cumbersome | 00:01 |
| tissi | imho | 00:01 |
| Sicelo009N | tbh, midori does work better as ceene mentions. | 00:01 |
| *** capitanocrunch has joined #maemo | 00:02 | |
| *** pagurus has joined #maemo | 00:03 | |
| Maxdamantus | Note that Opera Mini does everything through Opera's rendering proxies. | 00:04 |
| *** capitanocrunch has quit IRC | 00:05 | |
| Maxdamantus | (Opera Mobile doesn't though) | 00:05 |
| Maxdamantus | well, I think there's an option to do it there. | 00:05 |
| Linkandzelda | is there any other better irc client than xchat? | 00:05 |
| * Sicelo009N uses irssi | 00:06 | |
| * Maxdamantus does too. | 00:06 | |
| Linkandzelda | i wanted to use weechat | 00:06 |
| Sicelo009N | opera mobile does too if you activate Turbo mode .. | 00:06 |
| Maxdamantus | though a simple answer would be: HexChat. | 00:06 |
| Sicelo009N | Linkandzelda: check repos, or build :) | 00:06 |
| Maxdamantus | XChat was abandoned a number of years ago and forked into HexChat. | 00:06 |
| Maxdamantus | because the maintainer became unresponsive. | 00:06 |
| Sicelo009N | i build my irssi for my own perl needs | 00:07 |
| Linkandzelda | well there's no hexchat for n900 right? | 00:07 |
| Maxdamantus | Dunno, but it shouldn't be hard to compile it. | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2016-04-10 Sun 20:36:01] <ceene> a 2020 website won't even fit on our ram, however [2016-04-10 Sun 20:36:12] <ceene> so it won't mind much at all | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2016-04-10 Sun 20:37:15] <DocScrutinizer05> in 2020 I probably stopped using web, that's an insane development in a number of aspects and I don't want to participate in such insanity [2016-04-10 Sun 20:38:29] <DocScrutinizer05> when it's more lightweight to run VNC to a web rendering server than to use plain HTML, something went massively wrong on a design and architecture level | 00:08 |
| Maxdamantus | If it's similar to XChat it should have fairly standard dependencies (glib, gtc, etc) | 00:08 |
| Maxdamantus | s/gtc\>/gtk/ | 00:08 |
| tissi | how can i delete all the preset internet radio stations | 00:08 |
| tissi | the fast way i mean | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linkandzelda: there's xchat | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah you asked for a better client than xchat | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly depends on your definition of "better" | 00:10 |
| Linkandzelda | well xchat does the job really, its just pretty cluttered with the ui | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | umm, adjust it. I agree the default settings are massively useless | 00:11 |
| Linkandzelda | is there a command i can send in the terminal to give a notification to the system? like the ones that show up when you get an sms | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/ | 00:11 |
| Linkandzelda | as for adjusting it, i removed a lot of stuff from it so its much better | 00:11 |
| Sicelo009N | dbus-foo .. | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~phonecontrol | 00:12 |
| infobot | i heard phonecontrol is http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control | 00:12 |
| Sicelo009N | but phone-control package makes it easier | 00:12 |
| Linkandzelda | nice | 00:12 |
| Linkandzelda | i could try to get weechat to send notifications | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could try if my settings and 'hacks' with xchat please you better | 00:15 |
| tissi | im still kinda miffed about the camera being unable to launch without the magnet in the back cover | 00:15 |
| tissi | i already bought one new backcover but the magnet fell off or something | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/notify.sh http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/loginhost.xsh http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/xchat.conf | 00:16 |
| tissi | so cant use the camera... because no magnet even though the camera module itself is just fine | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and of course the keybindings too | 00:16 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: going to check those out, thanks | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tissi: how about just getting a new magnet in place? | 00:17 |
| tissi | well i would need to do that | 00:18 |
| tissi | so i havent done it | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, the self-fixer in maemo is out of order ;-) | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are hacked kernel modules that assume magnet always there | 00:19 |
| Linkandzelda | is the config files in .xchat2? | 00:22 |
| Maxdamantus | Why hack the kernel? It should be a matter of hacking something in userspace. | 00:23 |
| Maxdamantus | Probably camera-ui. | 00:23 |
| Maxdamantus | though you don't even need a magnet. | 00:23 |
| tissi | hacker kernel modules you say | 00:25 |
| Linkandzelda | i noticed when i had my back off when i put it down the camera opened... could be useful? | 00:25 |
| * Maxdamantus made a modified omap_hsmmc so it wouldn't make the SD card inaccessible when the back cover was removed. | 00:26 | |
| *** futpib_ has quit IRC | 00:30 | |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: how do i use this notify.sh? | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | place it into the .xchat2(?) folder | 00:32 |
| Linkandzelda | ok, did that | 00:33 |
| Linkandzelda | wondered if there is any other step | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/xchat.conf >> sound_command = /home/user/.xchat2/notify.sh << | 00:33 |
| Linkandzelda | ah | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty convenient yet simple hack | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could even make notify.sh do different actions based on the (soundfile) parameter passed to it by xchat | 00:36 |
| *** bredebid has quit IRC | 00:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | most of this is completely transparent to xchat and can get set up via xchat's setting GUI | 00:37 |
| tissi | what was the package to watch .mkv videos and other stuff | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gstreamer-plugins-ultranasty ? | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 00:39 |
| tissi | oh heck | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I have no clue | 00:40 |
| Linkandzelda | cant get it to play for some reason, DocScrutinizer05 | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | umm, check permissions | 00:40 |
| Linkandzelda | i gave it +x | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chmod a+x ~/.xchat2/notify.sh | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ll ~user/.xchat2/ | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | insgesamt 60 | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw------- 1 user users 186 2016-02-02 15:04 chanopt.conf | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw------- 1 user users 1065 2015-11-22 22:36 colors.conf | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw------- 1 user users 0 2016-02-02 15:04 ignore.conf | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw------- 1 user users 1003 2011-09-20 19:28 keybindings.conf | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw------- 1 user users 0 2016-02-02 15:04 notify.conf | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rwxr--r-- 1 user users 180 2009-12-18 15:42 notify.sh | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw------- 1 user users 10714 2010-07-16 01:51 pevents.conf | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | drwxr-xr-x 8 user users 4096 2015-09-04 23:45 scrollback | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw------- 1 user users 9135 2016-01-19 21:57 servlist_.conf | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw------- 1 user users 400 2016-02-02 15:04 sound.conf | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw------- 1 user users 0 2009-12-13 05:45 sound.confback | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw------- 1 user users 3632 2016-02-02 15:04 xchat.conf | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw------- 1 user users 121 2012-12-20 15:07 xchat-login.xsh | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | drwx------ 2 user users 4096 2011-03-10 02:37 xchatlogs | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you need sound.conf of course | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or do it via xchat settings | 00:42 |
| tissi | huh looks like the camera doesnt respond even with my strongest fridge magnet | 00:43 |
| tissi | well screw that | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/43664105 | 00:43 |
| tissi | would just use it to take pics of myself and become more self conscious anyway | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tissi: you don't need extremely stron magnets | 00:43 |
| tissi | well fridge magnets arent exactly extremely strong | 00:44 |
| tissi | there's just zero response | 00:44 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: i have sound.conf but its empty | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tissi: cat /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc0/cover_switch | 00:45 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: great colors btw | 00:46 |
| tissi | says closed | 00:47 |
| tissi | echoing "open" wouldnt work right? | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any magnet paced to the little 'pool' next to camera should do | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | closed is what means "there's a magnet" | 00:48 |
| tissi | how can there be a magnet | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | echoing anything into this sysnode doesn't work | 00:48 |
| tissi | when the back cover isnt even in place | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hw defect? | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linkandzelda: you need some content in it ;-D | 00:49 |
| tissi | wait oh wait | 00:49 |
| tissi | it says open | 00:49 |
| tissi | but still the camera application says "open lens cover" | 00:49 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: i figured, but i have no idea what | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use the settings GUI to define the events you want to cause a highlight&sound, and which | 00:50 |
| tissi | when i place the n900 on my desk | 00:50 |
| tissi | the camera actually functions | 00:50 |
| tissi | and when i take it off the application closes | 00:50 |
| tissi | but briefly i can see the camera image | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/43664105 for a suggestion | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tissi: that's the infrared proxy sensor testing for black or white zone on the cam door slider | 00:51 |
| tissi | sooo... watnou | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you got a new battery cover, it possibly lacks that paper sticker with the black and white zone | 00:52 |
| tissi | nah its there | 00:53 |
| tissi | hey, is there a way to check battery condition? | 00:54 |
| tissi | how much charge it can hold vs factory capacity | 00:55 |
| *** Pali has quit IRC | 00:56 | |
| tissi | crap the battery fell out | 00:57 |
| tissi | time and date reset again | 00:57 |
| tissi | hey, automatic time update doesnt work | 00:57 |
| tissi | or do i need to have a simcard for that? | 00:57 |
| tissi | it wont pick the time from my wifi at least | 00:58 |
| *** Sicelo009N has quit IRC | 00:59 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<tissi> or do i need to have a simcard for that?)) yes | 01:02 |
| tissi | yeah i realized it after googling | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you install ntpdate | 01:02 |
| tissi | maybe i should practice more self censorship | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((hey, is there a way to check battery condition?)) | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bq27 | 01:03 |
| infobot | bq27 is, like, http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/ bq27*, or http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/ | 01:03 |
| *** trumee has quit IRC | 01:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | heck, I can't find the sysnode for cam door IR proxy | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_shutter/state | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | open|close as you'd expect | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tissi: ^^^ | 01:09 |
| *** Sicelo009N has joined #maemo | 01:09 | |
| *** louisdk has quit IRC | 01:12 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tissi: closed is black, open is white. When your sensor doesn't detect white of your cover, then there's something pretty odd | 01:13 |
| tissi | sec | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the sensor however seems to be ok since it detects a table as white | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so something must be odd with your cover | 01:14 |
| tissi | cat returns closed | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since you said you got a replacement cover, I'd not be too surprised to find something odd with it | 01:15 |
| tissi | hey it was supposedly german | 01:15 |
| tissi | superior german engineering man | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tz | 01:15 |
| *** Sicelo009N has quit IRC | 01:16 | |
| tissi | gahh it stopped working again | 01:17 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: sounds working, thanks :) | 01:17 |
| tissi | now it wont detect table | 01:17 |
| *** Sicelo009N has joined #maemo | 01:18 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20160416_003.jpg | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you shouldn't test with table | 01:19 |
| tissi | yeah it looks 100% like that | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw you also see the backside of the magnet there | 01:20 |
| tissi | wait now it detects again | 01:20 |
| tissi | wheres the magnet exactly | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the wide rectangle right side attached to that vertical bar | 01:21 |
| tissi | i still dont get it | 01:22 |
| *** Sicelo009N has quit IRC | 01:23 | |
| *** zama has quit IRC | 01:23 | |
| *** netkat has quit IRC | 01:23 | |
| *** parazyd has quit IRC | 01:23 | |
| *** louisdk has joined #maemo | 01:24 | |
| *** zama has joined #maemo | 01:25 | |
| *** Sicelo009N has joined #maemo | 01:25 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please do http://paste.opensuse.org/20286135 | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya, afk for dinner etc | 01:26 |
| *** parazyd has joined #maemo | 01:29 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even better: watch -n 0,2 -d cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_shutter/state | 01:30 |
| *** netkat has joined #maemo | 01:30 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even better yet: watch -n 0,2 -d cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_shutter/state /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc0/cover_switch | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use a magnet to make second one read "closed" then try what happens when you slide open the cam shutter | 01:34 |
| tissi | invalid number | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any normal magnet should suffice for that, in a distance lower than 1cm | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ummm | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | try 0.2 instead 0,2 | 01:35 |
| tissi | tried, same | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe that's my special version of watch whioch I pimped to use fractions of a second. Use -n 1 that works | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah yours is messybox watch applet, which again is | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox | 01:37 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 01:37 |
| tissi | instead of a recursive list of "closed" "open" the screen just flashes two instances of either and refreshes | 01:38 |
| tissi | oh thats the idea | 01:38 |
| tissi | both read "closed" by default... | 01:39 |
| tissi | putting a magnet near does nothing | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | both closed sounds OK, should be a magnet there | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | remove cover, watch it go "open" | 01:40 |
| *** louisdk has quit IRC | 01:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first is cam door, second is magnet | 01:41 |
| tissi | opening cover doesnt do anything | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | magnet needs to be closed, cam door should be open/closed depending on... cam door | 01:41 |
| tissi | nor does bringing magnet close | 01:41 |
| tissi | cant get the readings to change | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's pretty strange | 01:42 |
| tissi | yeah im confused | 01:42 |
| tissi | but thats by default | 01:42 |
| Sicelo009N | hw defect? my 2nd N900 has hw defect preventing it from detecting mmc | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, but usually you get a always-open then, I'd guess | 01:42 |
| tissi | removing th back cover of the n900 entirely does change the second one to open | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I told you to do that, didn't I? | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so your cover has a magnet and the sensor works great | 01:43 |
| tissi | aaand putting the device on table changes both to open | 01:43 |
| tissi | i thought you were telling me about the lens cover | 01:43 |
| tissi | wait so wheres the problem then | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2016-04-16 Sat 00:40:40] <DocScrutinizer05> remove cover, watch it go "open" | 01:44 |
| tissi | yeah yeah i thought you meant lens cover | 01:44 |
| tissi | not battery cover | 01:44 |
| tissi | oh heck the battery fell out again | 01:45 |
| Sicelo009N | :) | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | put on cover, slide open cam door, watch it go "open closed" | 01:45 |
| Sicelo009N | sorry. it is rather loose | 01:45 |
| tissi | no problem i forgive you | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bend springs in a bit so it sticks firmly | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | really easy | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the steel springs at bottom end of battery | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use fingernail, no tools | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gently pull it a bit out | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are two of those latches | 01:47 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 away now for good. When you still don't see camera coming up a few seconds after "open closed", you got an issue with the camera app or DSP | 01:48 | |
| tissi | <DocScrutinizer05> put on cover, slide open cam door, watch it go "open closed" | 01:48 |
| tissi | cam door opening doesnt change anything | 01:49 |
| tissi | thanks for your help though | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when cam door opening doesn't change anything, your 'white' isn't | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check your cover | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the white area on cam door | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not really white then, evidently | 01:50 |
| tissi | yeah its more like grey | 01:50 |
| tissi | or bluish hue | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bueish is bad for infrared light I guess | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stick some white paer there | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | paper | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or white stickytape | 01:51 |
| tissi | ok | 01:52 |
| tissi | w0000t | 01:53 |
| tissi | it worked | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 01:53 |
| tissi | damn | 01:54 |
| tissi | thanks a ton | 01:54 |
| tissi | your food's getting cold tho | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's hardly anything I can't fix, usually even remote ;-P | 01:54 |
| tissi | you're my hero | 01:54 |
| tissi | damn now i have a 100% functioning n900 | 01:56 |
| Linkandzelda | seems my battery isnt improving, its got good standby time though (tte: 6-9k) when idling with no apps. when turned on though, tte: 150-300. guess i'll try to reflash and hope it changed something | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first calibrate | 01:57 |
| Linkandzelda | did that | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's LMD now? | 01:57 |
| Linkandzelda | Last Measured Discharge: 1635 mAh | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | off | 01:58 |
| Linkandzelda | what should it be? | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | calibration adjusts only 12% or sth, you need to repeat calibration until it settles to ~1200 | 01:58 |
| Linkandzelda | i see | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | resp settles, no matter where | 01:59 |
| Linkandzelda | and is there any chance the battery itself is just old? | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas the meter resets each time you remove battery | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | makes sense since new battery might be a different one | 02:00 |
| Linkandzelda | any way to tell with the data this script puts out? if its the battery itself? | 02:00 |
| tissi | whats with the new camera application that came with the cssu | 02:00 |
| tissi | how do i take video | 02:01 |
| tissi | also the focus is a bit off | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, you could monitor a charging from empty battery with a bq27200.sh 60 >batlog.txt | 02:01 |
| tissi | oh the controls are a bit different | 02:01 |
| tissi | found video | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you're done (battery fully charged) provide the batlog.txt and I can tell you details | 02:02 |
| Linkandzelda | ok, i will let it die until it turns itself off | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good | 02:02 |
| Linkandzelda | then i'll plug in, boot, ssh, run script, and let it charge while idling and screen off | 02:03 |
| Linkandzelda | for however long it takes | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | already start bq27200.sh 60 >>batlog.txt, then start it again after plugging to charger | 02:03 |
| Linkandzelda | ok | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | note the double >> | 02:03 |
| Linkandzelda | yea, append iirc | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can even run this in a second shell, while other shell does calibrate | 02:04 |
| Linkandzelda | E: Couldn't find package tmux | 02:05 |
| Linkandzelda | aww | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tmux?? | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 02:05 |
| Linkandzelda | its the lazy mans "cant be bothered to open a second window" | 02:06 |
| Linkandzelda | and does a really good job at it | 02:06 |
| Linkandzelda | but in this case, second window it is | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yust run the job in background ;-) | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bq27200.sh 60 >>batlog.txt& | 02:07 |
| Linkandzelda | ok that works | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stop it with kill % | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stop it with kill %% | 02:07 |
| Linkandzelda | running calibrate too | 02:08 |
| Linkandzelda | TTE: 3239 minutes | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or get it to foreground with fg | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | background again with ^Z bg | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though that *sometimes* fails | 02:09 |
| Linkandzelda | since its outputting nothing to the terminal i can leave it in the bg | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now cheers for good | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check with jobs | 02:10 |
| Linkandzelda | guess i'll keep doing this cycle until it gets to that number for lmd | 02:10 |
| Linkandzelda | that system of fg and bg is missing a crucial thing | 02:11 |
| Linkandzelda | the ability to stop output from background processes | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/1273034 | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, linux shell lacks a means to change file handles when they are already opened | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I guess that's linux at large | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the shell should use pipes for stdin, stdout, stderr ;-) I'm planning since long to have different fonts or colors for stdout and stderr | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linkandzelda: when the last LMD differs less that 12(?)% from previous LMD, it adjusted to the real value | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually that 12% limit is deliberately implemented into bq27200 chip to avoid massive bogus LMD changes | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however from a log of bq27200.sh 60 you can read the actual measured LMD, rather than the limited/capped value that gets stored to the LMD register | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linkandzelda: when you first start calibrate-bq27k.sh *before you plug in the charger at end of day, you can run a calibration cycle each day, with minimal impact to battery wear | 02:26 |
| *** ssvb has quit IRC | 02:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | calibrate-bq27k.sh will notice there's a valid discharge cycle (VDQ) and immediately turns off charger, so plugging in charger doesn't start charging until battery got discharged sufficiently for completing the learning cycle, then charging gets enabled like normal | 02:28 |
| *** xes has quit IRC | 02:29 | |
| *** xes has joined #maemo | 02:30 | |
| *** ssvb has joined #maemo | 02:34 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you also might want to give bq27k-detail2.sh a try. It's my original design on which the rest is based. and it's the most verbose one | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~battery-faq | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~batteryfaq | 02:38 |
| infobot | i heard batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers#That_bq27000_chip_seems_to_be_pretty_cool.2C_how_can_i_read_and_understand_its_raw_registers.3F | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (calculate *real* LMD from log) see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/n900-bq27log_til_empty.log - you simply subtract the value of NAC in last line before "VDQ:0 EDV1:1" (194) from NAC of start of discharge where RSOC=100 (1377), the result is _real_ LMD | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~1377-194 | 02:47 |
| infobot | 1183 | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for you it prolly will look like 1833-655 | 02:48 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 feels tempted to massively improve http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh to do all that math plus optional logging like "bq27200.sh 60 >>batlog.txt", plus work with a nice GUI of sorts | 02:50 | |
| *** tissi has quit IRC | 03:08 | |
| *** pagurus has quit IRC | 03:13 | |
| Maxdamantus | 11:17:34 < DocScrutinizer05> the shell should use pipes for stdin, stdout, stderr ;-) I'm planning since long to have different fonts or colors for stdout and stderr | 03:40 |
| Maxdamantus | It does. | 03:40 |
| Maxdamantus | You can open files over the existing fd using exec. | 03:40 |
| Maxdamantus | exec >foo.txt | 03:40 |
| Maxdamantus | That should open the file, dup2 it over the 1 fd and close the original fd. | 03:41 |
| Maxdamantus | (close the original fd from the open, that is—dup2 will close the original stdout fd) | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2016-04-16 Sat 01:11:14] <Linkandzelda> that system of fg and bg is missing a crucial thing | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2016-04-16 Sat 01:11:23] <Linkandzelda> the ability to stop output from background processes | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2016-04-16 Sat 01:12:30] <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, linux shell lacks a means to change file handles when they are already opened [2016-04-16 Sat 01:12:49] <DocScrutinizer05> actually I guess that's linux at large | 03:55 |
| Maxdamantus | Ah, well those aren't part of the shell anymore. | 03:56 |
| Maxdamantus | except in being a child process of it. | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | It evades me how this is related to a process closing own filehandles and opening them to a different destination | 03:56 |
| Maxdamantus | You'd probably do something involving ptrace to swap fds in that case. | 03:57 |
| * Maxdamantus wonders if someone's written such a tool. | 03:57 | |
| Maxdamantus | Doesn't look like it. | 04:01 |
| Maxdamantus | Someone on SO basically suggests doing that manually, using gdb. | 04:01 |
| * Maxdamantus might write one. | 04:07 | |
| Maxdamantus | swapfd 1234 1 >(sed 's/ //' >/tmp/fixed) | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds decent | 04:12 |
| *** N-Mi has quit IRC | 04:21 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly a 'starting point' - at least for me if I'd try to understand how to tackle that: http://paste.opensuse.org/13602740 | 04:25 |
| *** eMHa has joined #maemo | 04:28 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cat /proc/2971/fd/1 already results in 'funny' effects | 04:30 |
| Maxdamantus | Yes, you basically need to make the other process do that (so it opens an fd belonging to the `swapfd` process) | 04:32 |
| *** eMHa__ has quit IRC | 04:32 | |
| Maxdamantus | When you cat it you're just duplicating that fd into a new one in the cat process. | 04:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | echo -e "date\n" >/proc/2971/fd/0 | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a process' STDOUT filehandle is a pty's input | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and vice versa | 04:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't completely wrap my mind around that yet | 04:35 |
| Maxdamantus | Yeah, and to change that you need to make the process open something else and overwrite that STDOUT (1) fd. | 04:35 |
| Maxdamantus | which requires something like ptrace. | 04:36 |
| Maxdamantus | The /proc/*/fd interface just lets you duplicate fds into other processes. | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just you can't make the process do that, unless you somehow insert code via GDB or sth | 04:36 |
| Maxdamantus | You can do it using ptrace. | 04:36 |
| Maxdamantus | It doesn't involve injecting code, just system calls. | 04:36 |
| Maxdamantus | A process does some computation, invokes a system call and repeats. | 04:37 |
| *** robotanarchy has joined #maemo | 04:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I would try tolocate the data structure that represents the file handle and replace its content by the content of a similar filehandle I prepared for the process | 04:43 |
| Maxdamantus | There is no datastructure. | 04:44 |
| Maxdamantus | The datastructure is in the kernel. | 04:44 |
| Maxdamantus | At the process level, the file handle is the integer 1. | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in shell the filehandles you see (0, 1, 2, etc) are indizes into an array of file descriptor structures | 04:44 |
| Maxdamantus | That's not just a shell thing. | 04:44 |
| Maxdamantus | If you do `write(1, "foo", 3);` in your program, it writes to whatever the `1` fd is, according to Linux. | 04:45 |
| *** robotanarchy_ has quit IRC | 04:45 | |
| Maxdamantus | If you strace a program that does that, you'll simply see exactly that code. | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in other processes the file descriptor data structures are no indexed array bit possibly static variables | 04:45 |
| Maxdamantus | because the program is telling the kernel to write data at some address to the file descriptor 1. | 04:45 |
| Maxdamantus | not "stdout", or "the file handle at some address" | 04:45 |
| Maxdamantus | All processes ultimately use these read/write/etc calls, which address file descriptors using integers. | 04:46 |
| Maxdamantus | When you use `stdout`, you're going through a `FILE *`, which is a C concept implemented by glibc. | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then the integer is an array index to a per-process table in kernel | 04:46 |
| Maxdamantus | so that has a datastructure, but not all processes use `FILE *`s (which use fwrite, etc) | 04:47 |
| Maxdamantus | Yes, but you can't practically modify that datastructure directly in the kernel. | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly not | 04:47 |
| Maxdamantus | The best way to do that would be to just make the process do the system calls that have that effect. | 04:47 |
| Maxdamantus | using ptrace. | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you are the kernel | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is basically identical to "make process do the systemcalls" | 04:48 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if debugfs has an API for that | 04:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you don't do the systemcalls from process space but via debugfs | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you prolly also could try to go via /dev/kmem | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'd need to find the address of the kernel's process descriptor data structure for the process first, I guess | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then the rest should be relatively simple | 05:01 |
| Maxdamantus | It wouldn't be relatively simple. | 05:03 |
| Maxdamantus | What would you replace it with? | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since process descriptor table is fixed length, odds are that job is relatively simple too to find the process descriptor table and the right entry for your process you want to tweak in it | 05:03 |
| Maxdamantus | How would you close that fd? | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I's simply swap two file descriptors, then close the old one in the donator process | 05:03 |
| Maxdamantus | "the donator process" | 05:04 |
| Maxdamantus | file descriptors belong to particular processes. | 05:04 |
| Maxdamantus | When the "donator process" exits, all of its file descriptors are closed. | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? | 05:04 |
| Maxdamantus | Because that's how POSIX works. | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry that's no answer | 05:04 |
| Maxdamantus | when you do something like `(foo & bar) | cat`, how do you think the `cat` process knows when to stop reading? | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see a POSIX rule that says "whenever there is a donator process it has closed file handles only" | 05:05 |
| Maxdamantus | POSIX doesn't have a concept of "donator process" so it wouldn't refer to anything as that. | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why it wasn't an answer | 05:06 |
| Maxdamantus | When any process exits, all of its file descriptors are closed. | 05:06 |
| Maxdamantus | and again, try to answer my question. | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry that's nonsense | 05:06 |
| Maxdamantus | It's really not. | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when all filehandles of all processes are always closed, then what the heck do we need filehandles for? | 05:07 |
| Maxdamantus | They're not always closed. | 05:07 |
| Maxdamantus | They're closed on exit. | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's plain obvious that there exist processes with open filehandles | 05:07 |
| Maxdamantus | or on exec if it was opened with CLOEXEC or configured as such afterwards. | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who said "exit"?? | 05:08 |
| Maxdamantus | 14:06:21 < Maxdamantus> When any process exits, all of its file descriptors are closed. | 05:08 |
| Maxdamantus | Me. | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who cares? | 05:08 |
| Maxdamantus | You. | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 05:08 |
| Maxdamantus | Then what the fuck are you going on about? | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I never talked of an EXITED donator process | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | au contraire | 05:08 |
| Maxdamantus | You were responding to my statements about what happens when a process exits as if they were incorrect. | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since when the donator process would already have exited, then how would it go to close the swapped filehandle after donating his own filehandle to the process-under-tweaking? | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I missed to notice the "when exiting" in your statement | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | swapfd creates and opens a filehandle, finds own process table in kernel and finds destination process' table in kernel, swaps the two file descriptors, then closes own (now swapped) filehandle | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | done | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you just need to block premeptive multitasking during the whole swap process | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | swapfd must not get interrupted amidst doing the swap | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly not even after locating the process table entries | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise odds are the destination process exits meanwhile and a new process gets same table entry in process table | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | would cause funny havok | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly swapfd's own process table entry can safely considered stable during runtime of swapfd | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so seach process table for destination process, on find do lock the multitasking, verify that the process table entry you found is still valid, write the own new file descriptor to target process table entry, re-enable multitasking, write 'old' file descriptor to own process table entry, close own file descriptor, exit | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme augment to make it comprehensive... | 05:23 |
| Maxdamantus | or you can just use ptrace to back up the process' registers, modify the ones inside the process' address space such that it will make the appropriate system calls, then restore the registers again afterwards. | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so swapfd creates own fd to new file, finds own process table entry, and in there the file descriptor, seaches process table for destination process, on find do lock the multitasking, verify that the process table entry you found is still valid, write the own new file descriptor to target process table entry, re-enable multitasking, write 'old' file descriptor to own process table entry, close own file descriptor, exit | 05:25 |
| Maxdamantus | Then its only dependent on a stable interface for each architecture, rather than internel assumptions about how the kernel works at any given time. | 05:26 |
| *** Sicelo009N has quit IRC | 05:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good point, I just fail to understand how a process that already has opened a filehandle would do a systemcall to close() and open() again, without losing another systemcall you used to patch the process | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you divert the write() and read() systemcalls to own code that does all this | 05:28 |
| *** Sicelo009N has joined #maemo | 05:28 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and even then you need to wait until the process calls write() or read() next time | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which might be quite a while | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe I comletely missed to understand your concept | 05:29 |
| Maxdamantus | You might need to check to see if it's in the middle of a call involving the replace fd. | 05:30 |
| Maxdamantus | even if you didn't, it wouldn't block anyway since that old fd would be closed shortly afterwards. | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that for sure :-) An advantage of the concept I sketched is that you can safely assume that the process isn't inside a kernel function call when it gets suspended, unless it's poll() or the like | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, my concept has nasty dependencies on deep knowledge about kernel data structures | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I still wonder if it could already be there waiting for us, in debugfs | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically what forbids a filedescriptor node that's writeable, in a debug-enabled /proc/$pid/fd/${fd}_descriptor | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just not there because... | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in /proc/8113/fdinfo you are almost there already, just the right node missing, plus write permissions | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cat /proc/8113/fdinfo/1 | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now make that writeable and allow a "path: <filename>" as well | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm missing /debug/8113/fd/1* or sth like that. Just because no debugfs installed here | 05:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mount -t debugfs none /sys/kernel/debug | 05:43 |
| *** ian_r has joined #maemo | 05:48 | |
| * Maxdamantus suspects it could be made less architecture-dependent by creating another child process that appears to do the actual system calls. | 05:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, no, doesn't look like anything I'm dreaming up is in debugfs. only stuff like /sys/kernel/debug/tracing/events/ext4/ that might or might not have something useful | 05:48 |
| Maxdamantus | so it will ptrace both that child (which just does the open, dup2, close) and the target process, but will swap the registers structure around so it looks like the calls are done in the other process. | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, new lightweight thread | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sharing memory space | 05:49 |
| Maxdamantus | It doesn't need to share its address space. | 05:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | would simplify stuff, I guess | 05:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe not | 05:51 |
| Maxdamantus | You just need to copy the registers from the new child to the target child before the system call, then from the target child to the new child after the system call. | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too tired to think that in deep | 05:51 |
| Maxdamantus | then you resume the new child (PTRACE_SYSEMU), so it looks like the call was made there. | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it anyway seems this _can_ get done, one way or another, but it's nontrivial and you prolly correctly say nobody implemented it yet | 05:52 |
| Maxdamantus | since open/dup2/close only involve inputs/outputs in the registers themselves. | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I haven't even looked into ptrace in depth yet | 05:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just know what it's used for | 05:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually :-) | 05:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I prolly would know how to (ab)use gdb to do this FD redirection | 05:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first I'd patch the program text to append the code doing the close() and open() stuff, then change program counter to point to that interim new code, wun it, and continue where we left regular program text, not without restoring all registers etc to their original values | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/wun/run/ | 05:57 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: first I'd patch the program text to append the code doing the close() and open() stuff, then change program counter to point to that interim new code, run it, and continue where we left regular program text, not without restoring all registers etc to thei... | 05:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | finally I could delete the interim code from target's programtext again | 05:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this approach should work as long as the target process is susceptible to running under GDB monitor | 06:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IOW as long as the tracee is ptrace-enabled | 06:01 |
| *** lxp1 has joined #maemo | 06:02 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik only one tracer can get attached to a tracee at any given time | 06:04 |
| *** lxp has quit IRC | 06:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so this excludes traced processes from the set of valid candidates for swapfd | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some nasty programs may do tricks like tracing themselves to blocj RE via gdb and the like | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc skype is such a nasty candidate | 06:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway the ptrace approach seems sound | 06:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | regardless of the implementation details | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, way more portable and generic | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you probably can just ptraqce_attach to target, close($fd); open($fd, "new/path/to/file") and detach - well you should check the filehandle options that the original open() used, I guess | 06:10 |
| Maxdamantus | I think the only option you might want to maintain would be CLOEXEC. | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are some "details" to take care, like mmap() instead of open() etc | 06:12 |
| Maxdamantus | also, open is only one way to create an fd. | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D ^^^ | 06:12 |
| Maxdamantus | I'd expect it to actually open /proc/$swapfd/fd/$x | 06:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if mmap is a simple fd on /proc level. prolly should be | 06:13 |
| Maxdamantus | so that you can do things like that first command I gave. | 06:13 |
| Maxdamantus | swapfd 1234 1 >(blah) | 06:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, makes sense, as long as we talk about write-only FDs | 06:14 |
| Maxdamantus | (`>(blah)` is some bash syntax) | 06:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I know that syntax | 06:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | write-only would already be a great tool, much better than what we got now (zilch) :-D | 06:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read-only is similarly simple I guess | 06:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read-write is a tad more involved | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and with pipes like you use them in that command, positioning the write pointer gets tricky too :-) | 06:16 |
| Maxdamantus | fds are usually considered to be read or write anyway, not both. | 06:17 |
| Maxdamantus | except with files. | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course | 06:17 |
| Maxdamantus | but even reading and writing to the same file fd is reasonably uncommon. | 06:18 |
| *** DocScrutinizer06 has joined #maemo | 06:18 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer06 has quit IRC | 06:18 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer06 has joined #maemo | 06:18 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC | 06:18 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer06 is now known as DocScrutinizer05 | 06:18 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, reconnect | 06:18 |
| Maxdamantus | 15:18:03 < Maxdamantus> but even reading and writing to the same file fd is reasonably uncommon. | 06:18 |
| Maxdamantus | in case you didn't see it. | 06:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ta | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | really time for a nap | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 06:19 |
| *** ian_r1 has joined #maemo | 06:31 | |
| *** ian_r has quit IRC | 06:31 | |
| *** vahe1 has joined #maemo | 06:34 | |
| *** louisdk has joined #maemo | 09:21 | |
| *** Sicelo009N has quit IRC | 09:33 | |
| *** Sicelo009N has joined #maemo | 09:35 | |
| *** Sicelo009N has quit IRC | 09:35 | |
| *** louisdk has quit IRC | 09:38 | |
| *** vahe1 has quit IRC | 09:50 | |
| *** Sicelo009N has joined #maemo | 09:50 | |
| *** louisdk has joined #maemo | 09:55 | |
| *** Sicelo009N has quit IRC | 10:04 | |
| *** ian_r has joined #maemo | 10:21 | |
| *** ian_r1 has quit IRC | 10:21 | |
| *** ian_r1 has joined #maemo | 10:32 | |
| *** ian_r has quit IRC | 10:32 | |
| *** Pali has joined #maemo | 10:41 | |
| *** futpib_ has joined #maemo | 11:08 | |
| *** fuz_ has joined #maemo | 11:25 | |
| *** ian_r1 has quit IRC | 12:13 | |
| *** M4rtinK has joined #maemo | 12:17 | |
| *** joga_ has quit IRC | 12:49 | |
| *** joga_ has joined #maemo | 12:49 | |
| *** joga_ is now known as joga | 12:49 | |
| *** SpeedEvil has quit IRC | 12:53 | |
| *** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo | 12:54 | |
| *** bredebid has joined #maemo | 12:56 | |
| *** futpib_ has quit IRC | 13:16 | |
| *** futpib has joined #maemo | 13:18 | |
| *** sunweave1 is now known as sunweaver | 13:26 | |
| ceene | i've advanced a little bit with the port to libwa | 13:28 |
| ceene | it's not much, to be honest, but it's enough to see a little spot of light at the end of the tunnel | 13:28 |
| ceene | it now seems at least feasible | 13:28 |
| *** disco_stu_droid has joined #maemo | 13:29 | |
| *** disco_stu has quit IRC | 13:29 | |
| KotCzarny | is your api properly separated into frontend--backend ? | 13:29 |
| ceene | so-so | 13:29 |
| KotCzarny | improve that separation while you are at it? | 13:29 |
| ceene | when i finish the port to libwa, it'll be | 13:29 |
| ceene | yes, i'm basically forced to do it | 13:29 |
| ceene | as libwa does less things than yappari-wa | 13:29 |
| *** disco_stu_droid is now known as disco_stu | 13:29 | |
| ceene | but it does them better | 13:30 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 13:30 |
| ceene | for example, yappari-wa was in charge of storing logs | 13:30 |
| ceene | so once i finish porting to libwa, there'll be nobody to store logs | 13:30 |
| ceene | so i'll have to do that in a separate module | 13:30 |
| kerio | how long is the ban, btw | 13:30 |
| ceene | it's a bit more work, but it'll be better in the end | 13:30 |
| KotCzarny | 24 to 120h | 13:30 |
| KotCzarny | depends | 13:30 |
| ceene | three months i think | 13:31 |
| kerio | 3 months is a little bit more than 5 days | 13:31 |
| ceene | nope, i think it's 60 days | 13:31 |
| ceene | let me check | 13:31 |
| KotCzarny | i guess they have different bans available | 13:31 |
| ceene | there was a time when they banned for 24 hours users of whatsapp plus | 13:31 |
| ceene | but nowadays they just ban you for good | 13:31 |
| KotCzarny | for different 'offenses' | 13:31 |
| ceene | yes | 13:32 |
| ceene | but i think it's almost always the longest one | 13:32 |
| *** NIN101 has quit IRC | 13:32 | |
| ceene | 60 days, confirmed | 13:32 |
| ceene | that's the longest i've ever seen | 13:32 |
| KotCzarny | 60 days < 3 months | 13:32 |
| ceene | yes, i was mistaken | 13:32 |
| ceene | it's two months | 13:33 |
| *** NIN101 has joined #maemo | 13:33 | |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: what kind of video out port(s) are on the Neo900? | 13:50 |
| KotCzarny | isnt that a question more suiteable for #neo900 ? | 13:51 |
| KotCzarny | less traffic there i guess and he snoops that channels more closely | 13:52 |
| Luke-Jr | didn't know it existed | 13:52 |
| Luke-Jr | (also brushing against the channel limit) | 13:53 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 13:53 |
| *** Pali has quit IRC | 14:29 | |
| *** M4rtinK has quit IRC | 14:29 | |
| *** louisdk has quit IRC | 14:51 | |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: i just took off the batlog.txt. it discharged over night and the calibration script finished. http://sprunge.us/jhYJ LMD now 1431 | 15:10 |
| *** tissi has joined #maemo | 15:29 | |
| *** Valle_ has joined #maemo | 15:32 | |
| *** Valle_ is now known as Guest13566 | 15:33 | |
| *** tissi has quit IRC | 15:35 | |
| *** Guest13566 is now known as salamisami | 15:35 | |
| *** l_bratch has quit IRC | 15:38 | |
| *** l_bratch has joined #maemo | 15:42 | |
| *** vahe1 has joined #maemo | 15:53 | |
| *** xorly has joined #maemo | 15:54 | |
| *** ced117 has quit IRC | 16:18 | |
| *** ced117 has joined #maemo | 16:22 | |
| *** protem has joined #maemo | 16:26 | |
| *** krnlyng has quit IRC | 16:30 | |
| *** krnlyng has joined #maemo | 16:34 | |
| *** antranigv has joined #maemo | 16:34 | |
| antranigv | guys | 16:34 |
| antranigv | sup | 16:34 |
| antranigv | anyone uses encfs on maemo? | 16:34 |
| *** krnlyng has quit IRC | 16:35 | |
| *** phlixi has quit IRC | 16:38 | |
| *** sunshavi has joined #maemo | 16:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: CVBS and USB | 16:46 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: is USB video out different from standard USB host? | 16:48 |
| *** krnlyng has joined #maemo | 16:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 16:49 |
| Luke-Jr | CVBS is with the same video-out connector N900 had? | 16:49 |
| *** pcfe has quit IRC | 16:51 | |
| *** pcfe has joined #maemo | 16:51 | |
| *** pcfe has quit IRC | 16:51 | |
| *** pcfe has joined #maemo | 16:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 16:52 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: also, am I interpreted https://my.neo900.org/index.php?id_product=1&controller=product&id_lang=1 correctly? 480 EUR is 40% of the total price of 1200 EUR? | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | possible, yes | 16:54 |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC | 16:56 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo | 16:56 | |
| *** trumee_ has joined #maemo | 16:57 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see http://neo900.org/estimate | 16:58 |
| *** phlixi has joined #maemo | 16:59 | |
| *** trumee_ is now known as trumee | 17:00 | |
| *** trumee has joined #maemo | 17:01 | |
| *** phlixi has quit IRC | 17:02 | |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: so 900-1200 EUR basically; or is the lower estimate there not including the N900 parts? | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 17:03 |
| Luke-Jr | which? | 17:03 |
| *** phlixi has joined #maemo | 17:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | both | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 990 for NeoN, + ~150 for N900 | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and mounting etc | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and when we could sell 5000 (like pyra prolly does) instead of 500, we could cut a 300 off from that | 17:08 |
| *** sunshavi has quit IRC | 17:09 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a 300 bucks that is | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | apropos pyra and video-out: pyra using omap5 which supports digital video, something that omap3 doesn't | 17:14 |
| Luke-Jr | yeah, expected that | 17:18 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: no ETA yet for Neo900, right? | 17:19 |
| Wizzup | It says Q32016 on the page | 17:19 |
| Luke-Jr | oh | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, Q3 is optimistic, 2016 is honest | 17:19 |
| * Luke-Jr puts "No earlier than July" ☺ | 17:20 | |
| Luke-Jr | https://www.pyra-handheld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Comparison_Chart FWIW | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if and only if we can find another few hundred customers, we're not at our feasibility level yet | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh nice :-) | 17:21 |
| ceene | isn't cooperation with the pyra guys feasible? | 17:22 |
| ceene | to increase component reutilization | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pyra has same touchscreen like Neo900 | 17:22 |
| ceene | or whatever | 17:22 |
| Luke-Jr | an issue for Pyra right now is min. order of 500 for each of the modems.. | 17:23 |
| Luke-Jr | apparently ED isn't expecting >500 of each 4G model for some reason O.o | 17:23 |
| ceene | that comparison chart says a different thing | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 has a 3 LEDs on side of KBD for shiftlock, modem-active and whatever | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's "Dvorak impossible"?? | 17:24 |
| Luke-Jr | ceene: ? | 17:25 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: not physically possible to align the keys for Dvorak | 17:25 |
| Sicelo | how much is the Pyra? | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can have whatever keymapping you like, just the writing on keymat won't magically change, you need to blindtype or manually change the writing like on 99.99999% of other kbds | 17:25 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: the LEDs: colour or binary? | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err? | 17:26 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: Dvorak has the middle row far to the left of the bottom row; N900's keyboard doesn't have that many keys wide | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok | 17:26 |
| Luke-Jr | [14:23:53] <DocScrutinizer05> Neo900 has a 3 LEDs on side of KBD for shiftlock, modem-active and whatever <-- are these single colour or RGB? | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now that makes sense | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I think they are RGB, need to look tbh | 17:27 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: any idea about my battery log data? | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linkandzelda: URLß | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ? | 17:28 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: http://sprunge.us/jhYJ | 17:28 |
| Linkandzelda | calibration finished, im running it again | 17:28 |
| Linkandzelda | ending LMD was 1431 now instead of 16xx | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd say your battery has around 1100 to 1200mAh | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can't tell for sure since the discharge starts at 77%, not 100% | 17:30 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: on the side of the kb is underneath the face when closed? or way over to the side? (which side?) | 17:31 |
| Linkandzelda | i see | 17:31 |
| antranigv | so, no one uses encfs :/ | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | those 3 LEDs are probably left to kbd and not visible when kbd closed. We have a planned 2 pattern LEDs on the two device lower corners visoble from 180° to 270° around device no matter if device sits on display or back | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: you know we just have the drivers to control them just like the indicator LED in N900, and we got that spacerframe that literally asks for intergratinf LEDs into it | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and visibility of indicator LED never was really great | 17:35 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: the N900 LED is fairly well-positioned inside the N810 case BTW | 17:35 |
| NIN101 | antranigv: well I use luks | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, sort of like N810 | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but 2 corners, not 1 | 17:36 |
| antranigv | NIN101: on N900? o.O | 17:36 |
| Linkandzelda | DocScrutinizer05: so with a new battery having 1320mah, is it worth getting a fresh one? | 17:36 |
| NIN101 | antranigv: yes | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linkandzelda: I'd say prolly not | 17:37 |
| antranigv | NIN101: any instructions? | 17:37 |
| NIN101 | https://n900.quitesimple.org/crypto/encrypted_home/ | 17:37 |
| antranigv | NIN101: love you 0_0 <3 | 17:37 |
| NIN101 | but it's rather difficult (annyoin /time consuming) to set up | 17:38 |
| *** fk_lx_ is now known as fk_lx | 17:42 | |
| antranigv | NIN101: I'll give it a try on one of my N900s | 17:49 |
| *** corvinux has joined #maemo | 17:49 | |
| ceene | well, i've replaced yappari's registration code with the one on libwa | 17:53 |
| ceene | now, that's the easy part, because that's a pretty small module | 17:53 |
| ceene | but at least i've verified that the build system is working, linking and that the basics are fine | 17:53 |
| ceene | issue now is that i think it's mandatory now the newprotocol | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, on with the comparision chart | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: kbd backlight: YES (RGB) | 17:59 |
| Luke-Jr | interesting | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: Primary Operating System ... well, maemo? Devuan bare bones BSP incl factory test programs and installer wizard? | 18:02 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: what's it ship with? website said Debian :p | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it should already say Devuan | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it however say nothing about armhf | 18:03 |
| Luke-Jr | cool, cuz Debian sucks now ;) | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it says BSP | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: afaik pyra and Neo900 use identiacal WLAN/BT module | 18:07 |
| Luke-Jr | ok, so change to Devuan..? anything else? | 18:07 |
| KotCzarny | fremantle compatibility | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik this module can't do ac | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/stuff/block-diagrams/neo900/neo900.html | 18:08 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: The WiLink8? | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 18:08 |
| * Luke-Jr wonders if he misunderstood https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/gpd-is-going-to-release-an-x86-console-palmtop-computer.76762/page-27#post-1370758 | 18:09 | |
| *** krnlyng has quit IRC | 18:10 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we also use same modem module 8though Neo900 offers more variants) which means GNSS is also identical, though the Neo900 one has additional safeguard to block GNSS | 18:11 |
| *** krnlyng has joined #maemo | 18:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | upgrade: Via USB in battery compartment | 18:11 |
| Luke-Jr | that's there already ;) | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/USB/<a href=http://neo900.org/stuff/papers/hb.pdf>HackerBus/ | 18:13 |
| Luke-Jr | (although hns was curious how you managed to get a 3rd USB port on OMAP3) | 18:13 |
| Luke-Jr | oh | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | high power draw: 4..5h | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/hotswap/warmswap/ | 18:15 |
| *** krnlyng has quit IRC | 18:15 | |
| *** krnlyng has joined #maemo | 18:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we don't do the hotswap anymore, too much effort and we got suspend-to-disk meanwhile so we suspend device and then swap battery. The hotswap trick is maybe still working but not officially supported/warranted | 18:16 |
| Luke-Jr | suspend-to-disk means it's not really Neo900-specific then? | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | USB: micrio-AB | 18:17 |
| Luke-Jr | What is Micro-AB? O.o | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, it's not completely Neo900 specific, though our complete hw allows to do suspend to disk, which isn't warranted for arbitrary other platforms | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NFC: <a href=http://neo900.org/stuff/papers/nfc-draft.pdf>YES</a> | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#/media/File:USB_Micro-AB_receptacle.svg | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's it I guess | 18:22 |
| Luke-Jr | no battery life during usage claim? :P | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/gpd-is-going-to-release-an-x86-console-palmtop-computer.76762/page-27#post-1370758 chip is nonsensical, 802.11a is 5GHz and fine | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ac is multichannel and possibly even spread over both bands 2.4 and 5 iirc | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/wl1837mod.pdf | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WLAN Baseband Processor and RF Transceiver Support of IEEE Std 802.11a, 802.11b, 802.11g, and 802.11n 20- and 40-MHz SISO and 20-MHz 2 × 2 MIMO at 2.4 GHz for High Throughput: 80 Mbps (TCP), 100 Mbps (UDP) 2.4-GHz MRC Support for Extended Range and 5-GHz Diversity Capable | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<Luke-Jr> no battery life during usage claim? :P)) ??? | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don''t see anything except >>Battery life (claimed, high power draw)<< | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I answered that | 18:28 |
| Luke-Jr | you did? | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though I think "high power draw" is not the typical usecase for Neo900 | 18:29 |
| Luke-Jr | oh | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we rather brag with 10 days standby | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and over 24h with light use | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wich actually brings the conceptual differneces between Neo900 and Pyra to the point like nothing else does | 18:31 |
| Luke-Jr | 1320mAh is correct? any idea what voltage? | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the usual | 18:32 |
| Luke-Jr | I guess users can put any battery in | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's LiIon | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you can connect arbitrary LiIon to HB | 18:32 |
| Luke-Jr | will you be shipping with any battery? | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course! standard Bl-5J | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BL | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or compatible | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever we can source and is decent | 18:35 |
| Luke-Jr | did the side-of-kb LEDs turn out to be RGB? | 18:36 |
| Luke-Jr | or just the backlight? | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (nik wondered where we got the 3rd USB) well, OMAP3 has 1 OTG and 2 host USB interfaces | 18:36 |
| *** protem has quit IRC | 18:36 | |
| Luke-Jr | "OMAP3 has up to USB 3 ports (according to the data sheet). One is used for the OTG port. The next one needs an external controller chip and is needed for the 3G/4G module. And the third one is not available through pinmux or only if the second one is not high speed. So to my knowledge there are only 2 ports and no spare one." | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme check (http://neo900.org/stuff/eaglefiles/proto_v2/3-2015-09-09/Neo900_no-vectorfonts.pdf)... | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | p33 sheet29 | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indicator and 2 corner LEDs | 18:39 |
| * Luke-Jr pokes KDE for not liking neo900.org | 18:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next page (34) MOD 3 momocrome LEDs left to KBD | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err ooops, seems we picked a single RGB for that | 18:42 |
| Luke-Jr | so 1 RGB on face, and 1 RGB on left side of kb? | 18:42 |
| Luke-Jr | and 1 RBG kb backlight | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kbd are backlight LEDs | 18:42 |
| Luke-Jr | I don't know how to read schematics btw | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, let me count: we got: indicator LED and 2 AUX (corner) LEDs which are RGB and can do patterns like N900 | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then we got 6 RGB backlight (KBD) LEDs, each individually controllable in color and brightness (N900 has 6 white LEDs for that) | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then one more RGB LED plain visible at left side of kbd | 18:46 |
| Luke-Jr | hm | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and one RGB privacy LED which replaces the red-only LED at camera lens | 18:46 |
| Luke-Jr | the 3 face LEDs are all independent, or share the same signal? | 18:47 |
| * Luke-Jr not sure he was aware of the red LED O.o | 18:47 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which ones? | 18:47 |
| Luke-Jr | [15:44:07] <DocScrutinizer05> well, let me count: we got: indicator LED and 2 AUX (corner) LEDs which are RGB and can do patterns like N900 | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | those are completely independant | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all our LEDs are "solitaire" | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except the display backlight white ones | 18:48 |
| Luke-Jr | backlight has RGB *and* white ones? | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DISPLAY | 18:48 |
| Luke-Jr | oh | 18:48 |
| Luke-Jr | forgot that even existed XD | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 18:48 |
| buZz | hmm, there isnt a GSM-free neo900? | 18:49 |
| buZz | i thought it was a privacy oriented platform :D | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FSM-free? | 18:49 |
| Luke-Jr | ok, so Notification LEDS: 3 RGB LEDs on the face, 1 on left side of keyboard (not visible when closed) | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GSM even | 18:49 |
| buZz | no we always need finite state machines DocScrutinizer05 :D | 18:49 |
| Luke-Jr | And Keyboard Backlight: Yes (6 RGB LEDs) | 18:49 |
| Luke-Jr | buZz: Neo900 allows you to power off the GSM, IIRC | 18:49 |
| buZz | why would i buy a car with a gun, only to disable the gun | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: yep when 'on the face' means 'surface'. 2 are on case corners | 18:50 |
| Luke-Jr | so actually on the corner, ok | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why would you buy a car? | 18:50 |
| buZz | yeah good point | 18:51 |
| Luke-Jr | so Notif LEDs: 3 RGB LEDs on the display (2 visible from the sides), 1 on left side of keyboard (not visible when closed) | 18:51 |
| *** veikko has quit IRC | 18:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | er wait | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we got N900 indicator LED plus 2 new ones in case corners (360° visoble), then we got a little one left side of kbd | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so 4 LEDs | 18:52 |
| Luke-Jr | right | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plus privacy LED | 18:52 |
| KotCzarny | buzz: because you want to hide under the radar | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the litthe formerly red light next to main camera lens | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now also RGB | 18:53 |
| Luke-Jr | how do I turn the red light on? O.o | 18:53 |
| buZz | i just dont wanna support systems i want to take no part in :) | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: welcome, and thanks for the constructive contributions | 18:54 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: oh, in the middle of the torch? | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: you lost me | 18:54 |
| Luke-Jr | the red light | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | between the 2 big white flash LEDs | 18:54 |
| buZz | i guess i need to stick to N800/N810 then :/ sad | 18:55 |
| KotCzarny | you can always desolder modem chip from n900 | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, a N900 successor is no valid replacement for N810 | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if that wasn't obvious yet | 18:55 |
| buZz | i really wish ppl would just make PDAs again :( | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you don't like N900 you won't like Neo900 either | 18:56 |
| Luke-Jr | buZz: Pyra will have a modem-free model, and there's GPD Win | 18:56 |
| buZz | Luke-Jr: ah cool, didnt see that yet (@ modemfree) | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 can also be ordered without any modem | 18:56 |
| buZz | ah it can? also didnt see that | 18:56 |
| buZz | which is why i asked | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just don't hope for substantial savings from this | 18:56 |
| *** pagurus has joined #maemo | 18:57 | |
| buZz | if money was a motivation i wouldnt be looking at neo900/pyra at all ;) | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fair point | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: Neo900 get built to order | 18:57 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: look good now? | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme F5 | 18:58 |
| * Luke-Jr throws "Optional" on Neo900 modem | 18:58 | |
| KotCzarny | make it 'option: modem free' | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pyra still lacks a dualtouch r-ts like Neo900 got | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pyra uses "our" chip ;-) | 19:00 |
| * Luke-Jr fixes | 19:00 | |
| Luke-Jr | now if only someone would fork Pyra and add the Neo900-exclusive features to it.. :p | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LEDs look good enough, though "on display" is a tad missleading since the corner two are in main body spacerframe | 19:01 |
| Luke-Jr | so when kb and display separate, they stay with the kb half? | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so basicaly above stylus and symmetrically on left side | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on the lower left and right corner/edhe of device | 19:03 |
| Luke-Jr | Total 5 RGB LEDs: 1 on the display; 2 on the sides; 1 on left side of keyboard (not visible when closed)<br>1 on the rear above the camera (between the flash LEDs; visible only when camera open) | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | YES!! :-) | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BT is identical between Pyra and Neo | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/wl1837mod.pdf | 19:05 |
| Luke-Jr | do you have some way to get FM & NFC off that, or use a separate chip? | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 3.7V vs 4.2V -- this is just nominal vs maximal voltage of a standard LiIon cell | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we got separate chip for FM, and a very unique and versatile NFC subsystem of our own design | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | designed by Werner Almesberger | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (with a little 'help' by me) | 19:08 |
| Luke-Jr | seems like the wl1837mod *should* have FM on the chip, but it's disabled I guess | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | We'll check that | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if we can use it, we will | 19:08 |
| Luke-Jr | I didn't see any mainline kernel code for it at least | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless effort is lower with a separate FM-TX/RX chip | 19:09 |
| Luke-Jr | that sounds likely if you already have a separate chip done | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | again, check our *very* nice blockdiagram! | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bd | 19:10 |
| infobot | [bd] Bangladesh | 19:10 |
| Luke-Jr | lol infobot | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~#neo900 bd | 19:10 |
| infobot | methinks #neo900 bd is http://neo900.org/stuff/block-diagrams/neo900/neo900.html the very fine and detailled Block Diagram, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1445200#post1445200 | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | makes me wonder why we don't have this chat in #neo900 instead of here where it's rather OT | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now we're almost done so nm | 19:10 |
| Luke-Jr | whoa, Neo900 has dual SIM? | 19:11 |
| ceene | which software has that diagram been made with? | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: (block diagram) you get all the datasheets from there, just a mouseclick away | 19:11 |
| *** fuz_ has quit IRC | 19:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: yep, 'dual' SIM | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: ask wpwrak | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: /join #neo900 | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: (dual SIM) depending on what modem might support in future with a firmware update, we might support dual SIM dual standby, for now we canonly support SIM swap. Plus you can use either of both slots as smartcard reeader muutually exclusive to modem SIM | 19:13 |
| *** corvinux has quit IRC | 19:27 | |
| *** corvinux has joined #maemo | 19:27 | |
| *** fuz_ has joined #maemo | 19:35 | |
| *** xray256_ has quit IRC | 19:36 | |
| *** alien2003 has joined #maemo | 19:37 | |
| *** xray256_ has joined #maemo | 19:38 | |
| *** Avasz has joined #maemo | 19:40 | |
| *** Avasz has quit IRC | 19:42 | |
| ceene | well, so it seems that the guy from Chat-API which implements WA protocol on PHP lives also here in Madri | 19:43 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 19:44 |
| ceene | s/Madri/Madrid | 19:44 |
| KotCzarny | beer coding session? | 19:44 |
| ceene | probably, yeah | 19:44 |
| ceene | he's almost studied on the same building as me | 19:44 |
| ceene | lol | 19:44 |
| ceene | he's done the shorter grade | 19:44 |
| KotCzarny | small world | 19:45 |
| ceene | but we're profession colleagues | 19:45 |
| *** Avasz has joined #maemo | 19:47 | |
| *** Avasz has joined #maemo | 19:47 | |
| *** xray256_ has quit IRC | 20:11 | |
| *** xray256_ has joined #maemo | 20:16 | |
| *** vahe1 has quit IRC | 20:30 | |
| *** lobito1 has joined #maemo | 20:50 | |
| KotCzarny | offtopic but funny: http://i.imgur.com/pTYT70h.png | 20:51 |
| *** lobito has quit IRC | 20:51 | |
| *** lobito1 is now known as lobito | 20:52 | |
| APic | Hi. | 21:08 |
| * APic is going to buy a spare N900 from a Friend. How can he securely erase all his private Data, but leave the Device flashable for me? | 21:08 | |
| KotCzarny | just do full flash ? | 21:09 |
| kerio | there's a thing in settings, isn't it | 21:10 |
| KotCzarny | run rescueos and do dd ? | 21:10 |
| kerio | idk if it makes it a "secure" erase though | 21:10 |
| KotCzarny | unless he works in data forensics simple dd </dev/zero is enough | 21:10 |
| kerio | writing zeroes over the emmc is enough in any case | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~tell apic about flashing-cmdline | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you want to make sure, do a dd if=/dev/urandom of=/home/user/xxx; rm /home/user/xxx; dd if=/dev/urandom of=/home/user/MyDocs/xxx; rm /home/user/MyDocs/xxx | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *after* flashing | 21:16 |
| APic | Thanks. | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 21:17 |
| APic | B-) | 21:17 |
| KotCzarny | /dev/urandom is SLOW | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could do (ls -lR /; cat /home/user/xxx)|dd of=/home/user/xxx to speed up | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularls for /home/user/MyDocs/xxx instead of /home/user/xxx which otherwise will take quite a while via dev/urandom | 21:24 |
| KotCzarny | full flash should be enough, if there are any files in mydocs remaining, just delete them | 21:25 |
| *** pagurus has quit IRC | 21:25 | |
| kerio | APic: most definetely do not do dd if=/dev/whatever of=/path/to/file without a count= | 21:26 |
| APic | Ok | 21:28 |
| APic | Thanks | 21:28 |
| kerio | boot from rescueOS, zero out the emmc, then flash both COMBINED and VANILLA | 21:28 |
| KotCzarny | DAMN | 21:31 |
| KotCzarny | i see hotpixel on my lappy | 21:31 |
| KotCzarny | :/ | 21:31 |
| KotCzarny | my life is ruined :/ | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yes, he shall do exactly that | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do dd until no more room on storage left | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | APic: ignore that | 21:32 |
| KotCzarny | now that i look.. 4 of them | 21:32 |
| APic | Ok | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | APic: what you should NOT do is "zero out the eMMC" | 21:33 |
| kerio | KotCzarny: rip | 21:33 |
| KotCzarny | wth, 6 | 21:34 |
| kerio | display a checkerboard pattern fullscreen | 21:35 |
| kerio | or a solid color i guess | 21:35 |
| kerio | checkerboard would make them easier to spot | 21:35 |
| KotCzarny | could be i just didnt look at the screen closely before | 21:35 |
| KotCzarny | 1680x1050 is quite high dpi | 21:36 |
| KotCzarny | (for 15") | 21:36 |
| *** xray256_ has quit IRC | 21:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | APic: for two reasons: you shouldn't write brute force to the device anyway, and for sure not all zeros since that might get optimized out by the eMMC's contrller and not result in any real write | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after you did fill the complete storage with one file with pseudo random data (not all zeros), you can optimize the eMMC again by doing exactly that: write all zeros to a file until storage full, then delete the file | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this will possibly tell the controller that the flash pages are unused | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unlikely but possible | 21:48 |
| APic | Ok | 21:48 |
| KotCzarny | still, overthinking | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your chances are better on the vfat fs than on any other | 21:48 |
| KotCzarny | remove the files then do full flash | 21:48 |
| kerio | either the controller knows about all zeroes and will just mark the pages as unused or it doesn't know about all zeroes and will just write them | 21:49 |
| kerio | but by marking the pages as unused you'll still obtain the desired result | 21:49 |
| kerio | and most definetely you need to do that on the whole device anyway, not on a single partition | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or the controller knows about vfat and optinizes | 21:49 |
| kerio | because the controller doesn't split the device in partitions | 21:49 |
| KotCzarny | also, 'controller optimizing' would mean that you get meaningful data on read, still, you would get all zeros. so as i said, unless you are doing forensic flash data retrieval as a work/hobby, no point in overthinking | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good point, make that dd if=/dev/urandom of=/home/user/xxx; dd if=/dev/urandom of=/home/user/MyDocs/xxx; rm /home/user/MyDocs/xxx; rm /home/user/xxx; | 21:50 |
| kerio | still no need to use urandom but ok | 21:51 |
| kerio | and you forgot about the swap, which is probably even more critical | 21:51 |
| kerio | considering that private material ends up there all the time | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, you also could use /dev/one | 21:51 |
| kerio | surely it depends on the innards of the controller | 21:51 |
| KotCzarny | what about fingerprints on the screen? | 21:52 |
| kerio | deleted nand pages appear as 0xff, not 0x00 | 21:52 |
| KotCzarny | dna samples in keyboard? | 21:52 |
| kerio | KotCzarny: eeew | 21:52 |
| kerio | what do YOU do with your n900 | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't forget about swap, I considered it safe enough and likely enough to get corrupted for all but the most security relevant purposes | 21:52 |
| KotCzarny | kerio, i assume you are treating n900 with white gloves, eh? | 21:52 |
| kerio | ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (use dev/one (which doesn't exist)) or do what I suggested to speedup | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (ls -lR /; cat $file)|dd of=$file | 21:54 |
| KotCzarny | ls -lR is WRONG | 21:55 |
| KotCzarny | find / -type f is right | 21:55 |
| kerio | wat | 21:55 |
| kerio | that's just to generate some data or whatever | 21:55 |
| KotCzarny | kerio, do ls -lR and see the output | 21:55 |
| KotCzarny | also, using ascii is no better than /dev/zero | 21:56 |
| kerio | ? | 21:56 |
| kerio | the idea is that only writes of zeroes are optimized away | 21:56 |
| kerio | for whatever meaning of "optimized away" doc means | 21:56 |
| kerio | writing anything else will trigger an erase/write cycle on the page that the controller wants to use | 21:57 |
| KotCzarny | idea is that doing reverse write then doing statistical analysis on the floating data still present on data cells | 21:57 |
| kerio | no, that's not the idea | 21:57 |
| kerio | everyone here agrees that that's bullshit | 21:57 |
| kerio | especially for flash memory | 21:57 |
| kerio | where if you trigger an erase you're pretty damn sure that the data is gone | 21:58 |
| kerio | literally shocked out of existance | 21:58 |
| KotCzarny | kerio, sure, but you think data cells are 0/1 | 21:58 |
| KotCzarny | it's not exactly 0/1 | 21:58 |
| kerio | but even on rotational drives there's literally no account of anyone ever recovering data from a zeroed out platter | 21:58 |
| kerio | because if you could do that | 21:58 |
| kerio | then you could use the same principle to store more data | 21:59 |
| kerio | which is what hard drive manufacturers *do* | 21:59 |
| KotCzarny | kerio, thing is they did that | 21:59 |
| KotCzarny | residual magnetism | 21:59 |
| kerio | citation needed | 21:59 |
| KotCzarny | http://m.www.na-businesspress.com/JMPP/MedlinWeb.pdf | 22:00 |
| KotCzarny | see residual magnetism | 22:01 |
| KotCzarny | that's why corpos destroy media physically | 22:01 |
| kerio | "This data can be recovered with certain software and hardware scans" | 22:01 |
| KotCzarny | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_remanence | 22:02 |
| KotCzarny | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_remanence#Feasibility_of_recovering_overwritten_data | 22:03 |
| kerio | yes, i was about to link that | 22:03 |
| kerio | An analysis by Wright et al. of recovery techniques, including magnetic force microscopy, also concludes that a single wipe is all that is required for modern drives. | 22:04 |
| kerio | (where modern = after 2001, over 15gb) | 22:04 |
| kerio | and you destroy drives instead of overwriting them because physically punching through the platters with a lever takes like 5 seconds | 22:05 |
| KotCzarny | also remember, it's official info in wikipedia | 22:05 |
| KotCzarny | what is in nsa arsenal is another story | 22:05 |
| APic | Friend posted this: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/mobile/support/faq/?action=singleTopic&topic=FA121650 | 22:05 |
| APic | How about that? | 22:05 |
| kerio | all i asked was an article where someone shows recovery of at least one byte from a hard disk platter that was overwritten with a NUL | 22:06 |
| kerio | APic: that's what i suggested initially but i'm not sure if it actually overwrites stuff | 22:06 |
| KotCzarny | kerio: http://imgur.com/gallery/zMuJzWt | 22:06 |
| KotCzarny | punching leaves some data instact | 22:06 |
| *** krnlyng has quit IRC | 22:07 | |
| *** xelo has joined #maemo | 22:08 | |
| kerio | ok actual question | 22:09 |
| kerio | is there a way to restore mtd1 (CAL) to a pristine state? | 22:09 |
| *** krnlyng has joined #maemo | 22:12 | |
| KotCzarny | kerio: http://www.vistax64.com/system-security/208829-who-can-crack-gutmann-method.html#post960915 | 22:17 |
| kerio | lots of sources | 22:20 |
| KotCzarny | i guess connecting n900 to pc and feeding it to truecrypt format would be faster than 'on device' clear | 22:20 |
| KotCzarny | kerio, thing is you won't hear about such low level data recovery | 22:21 |
| KotCzarny | if there is a backdoor, who's gonna brag about it? | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio is right about flash erase | 22:22 |
| KotCzarny | regarding flash: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2678482/posts | 22:23 |
| salamisami | eh | 22:23 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the thing is | 22:24 |
| kerio | if the controller is smart enough to treat zeroes differently | 22:24 |
| salamisami | i ran apt-get update fcam-drivers and reboot and camera doesnt work | 22:24 |
| kerio | why wouldn't it also do background garbage collection of the pages? | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((and you destroy drives instead of overwriting them because...)) ...you can't erase a disk that's already defect | 22:24 |
| kerio | salamisami: normal kernel? | 22:24 |
| salamisami | power v53 | 22:24 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: that, too | 22:24 |
| kerio | can't ATA Secure Erase if the drive doesn't work | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: (garbage collection) they do, usually | 22:25 |
| KotCzarny | 3. If you fill your hard drive with porn, they may stop looking for hidden data, and just fap instead. | 22:28 |
| *** louisdk has joined #maemo | 22:28 | |
| KotCzarny | lol | 22:28 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: so what's the issue with writing zeroes? | 22:28 |
| salamisami | so.... is there any way to make the camera work again (which does not include flashing the phone) | 22:31 |
| KotCzarny | uninstall fcam and fcam-drivers | 22:32 |
| KotCzarny | or fcam-modules, dont remember | 22:32 |
| salamisami | so no blessn900 for power kernel then? | 22:32 |
| kerio | i never understood who's responsible for the kernel module | 22:32 |
| KotCzarny | i think it's just incompability of the modules | 22:32 |
| KotCzarny | btw. did you reboot after installing fcam? | 22:36 |
| Sicelo | you just need to reinstall :) | 22:36 |
| * Sicelo has PK & BlessN900 | 22:37 | |
| *** alien2003 has quit IRC | 22:37 | |
| Sicelo | and also PK & FCamera on the 2nd N900. just reinstall the drivers. it should be in wiki | 22:37 |
| salamisami | i did reboot | 22:38 |
| salamisami | well i removed fcam drivers and now the default cam works again | 22:38 |
| salamisami | whats the nicest calculator application for maemo btw | 22:41 |
| KotCzarny | i use bc | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | clearly HP45 :-) | 22:49 |
| Linkandzelda | any of you tried meego? | 22:53 |
| salamisami | you mean harmattan? | 22:54 |
| Linkandzelda | yea | 22:54 |
| salamisami | well i own N0 | 22:54 |
| salamisami | n9 | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, HP42 http://my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?fldAuto=812&faq=41 | 22:55 |
| Linkandzelda | just wondering if there's any point in trying it out on my n900 | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/free42/ | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linkandzelda: harmattan doesn't work too nice on N900 afaik | 22:58 |
| Linkandzelda | i see | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also it's abandoned very early during development | 22:59 |
| Linkandzelda | im still searching for a vsync fix, saw that harmattan had it apparently | 22:59 |
| salamisami | dunno why you'd even want harmattan on n900 | 22:59 |
| salamisami | whenever i was using n9 i wished it had maemo instead | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are fremantle/N900 vsync fixes I think | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | salamisami: indeed | 23:00 |
| Linkandzelda | if you find something i'd like to try it | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask pali | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he might know | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or freemangordon | 23:00 |
| Linkandzelda | the bug report was closed with Status:RESOLVED WONTFIX a long time ago, thats about all i discovered | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm I _think_ some kernel hackers found a way to enable the hw vsync | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe they hoped for such and didn't manage to implement it, dunno | 23:05 |
| *** krnlyng_ has joined #maemo | 23:13 | |
| *** krnlyng has quit IRC | 23:17 | |
| *** futpib has quit IRC | 23:53 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
