IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2016-03-12

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Luke-JrPali: new kdepim-noakonadi kmail fails to build :<01:43
Luke-Jrnm, I think I'm doing osmething wrong01:47
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PaliLuke-Jr: it builds fine for me...03:11
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mp107Welcome. I have a question about blocking an access to maemo.org from 5.172.247.128-255 IP address pool.13:38
mp107They are assigned to the Polish network Aero2 offering free Internet access.13:38
KotCzarnyand being free it also means bad people abusing it for spam13:38
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mp107Unfortunately I have to agree.13:39
fredddI am considering selling my N900. Does anyone know any recommendation price and a good place to sell such an old device? It is in working condition, no malfunctions or screen scratches, pen included.13:40
L29Ahebay.com13:41
mp107But is there really so much amount of abuse from those IP addresses?13:41
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L29Ahyeah so much abuse that you can't even get a readonly access ;)13:41
* L29Ah actually has to get to maemo.org thru tor as it looks less abusive by its admins it seems13:42
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NIN101tor is also regularly blocked, at least by TMO13:44
NIN101quite ironic for this community, you could at least allow GET requests.13:44
mp107But are those blockages temporary or constant?13:45
NIN101I am sure they are constant.13:45
* freddd pokes ceene "hey little boy, want to buy some candy?" * swings N900 at him *13:47
L29Ahpass it to your children13:47
fredddI would have to put an Apple sticker on it for that to happen.13:48
fredddEven then ...13:48
fredddIf it is not <1mm in thickness they will start raising questions.13:48
WizzupI usually pay 40-80 euro for second hand n900s13:52
ceenefreddd: how much do you ak for it?13:56
ceeneshipping costs will be high, though13:56
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ceenelatest one i bought was 30 euro13:57
L29Ahfound a thread about changing imei on tmo14:14
L29Ah16 pages worth of moralfags and not a byte to send14:14
fredddceene most likely not much.14:26
MaxdamantusWhat else would you expect? Instructions on actually changing the IMEI?14:26
fredddI am thinking 30 - 50 euros.14:26
fredddI think that is not much?14:26
fredddEverything still works. Screen has no scratches.14:27
fredddRecently put a new battery in it.14:27
L29AhMaxdamantus: sure14:28
L29Ahi've recently got an lte modem and needed to change its imei so i could buy a cheaper mobile phone-aiming unlimited internet plan, googled it in a few seconds on some russian forum14:30
L29Ahnow i have an iphone 5 :314:30
ceenefreddd: why don't you keep it?14:31
ceeneyou could help me code yappari :P14:31
ceeneor help with the kernel so we get to run modern glibc and all that14:31
ceenei'm quite tired lately to d anything fun, works drains all my coding energy14:32
KotCzarnyfreddd: you can post on talk.maemo.org in buy/sell section14:33
fredddceene, software compatibility is the only thing. :(14:37
ceenewhich software are you missing?14:38
fredddAuthenticators.14:38
ceenewhats's that?14:38
fredddSteam recently enforced a trading limit (15 day item hold on market) unless you use their authenticator (built-in into Steam Mobile, not available seperate).14:38
KotCzarnyfreddd, vnc?14:39
fredddVNC?14:39
KotCzarnyand android emulator on pc14:39
fredddKotCzarny I am looking for convenient and modern solutions.14:39
fredddNot the hacky way.14:39
KotCzarnywrite to steam for a linux client?14:39
fredddIt was an example, one of many.14:39
fredddI enjoy the game Clash of Clan as well.14:40
L29Ahi wonder how poking a bazillion of devices to make a trade considered convenient14:40
ceenesomeone reposted all files for running nitdroid14:40
L29Ahmodern maybe (:14:40
KotCzarnythen as i said, on pc run virtualbox with vnc enabled, inside run linux with android emulator14:40
fredddL29Ah blame the scammers and people who fall for the scams.14:40
KotCzarnythen just connect n900 with vnc to that virtual14:40
fredddThat is a hacker's solution.14:40
L29Ahnah i'll just blame steam users14:40
KotCzarnyand i bet it would work better than having client for everything14:41
fredddI use N900 as a convenience (right now all it runs is Yappari).14:41
KotCzarnywhen you can use ssh and vnc to get access to gigs of mem/storage14:41
KotCzarnyalso, n900 IS a hacker's device14:41
fredddI never used it as such.14:42
fredddI do not code on it.14:42
fredddI do not terminal on it (I tried, too inconvenient).14:42
KotCzarnyyou can be a hacker without coding too14:42
fredddThe way I SSH on desktop is not as pleasant as on N900.14:42
fredddI can not imagine anyone doing mainstream server management SSH on it.14:42
fredddMaybe here and there check upon something.14:42
ceenea full on keyboard is better, of course14:43
ceenebut i use n900 a lot to ssh into things14:43
fredddFor?14:43
fredddUpdating?14:43
ceenelots of things14:44
ceenec coding14:44
ceenesystem administraton things14:44
ceenesometimes i'm to lazy to go for the laptop14:44
fredddI move to my desktop for that. Or laptop. I get too annoyed by how slow it would be on phone.14:45
fredddEven using IRC on phone annoyed me.14:45
fredddThe messaging has been utmost wonderful on this device since I had it.14:45
KotCzarnyi use n900 as a phone/audio player mostly, with occasional ssh/shell things/www14:45
KotCzarnyand toilet gaming device too, last but not least14:46
KotCzarny;)14:46
MaxdamantusSo which one is least?14:46
KotCzarnygaming14:47
KotCzarnyerm14:47
KotCzarnyleast is email14:47
KotCzarnynever used it14:47
* Maxdamantus uses email over ssh.14:47
ceenemodest is depressively bad14:47
fredddSO CEENE HOW MUCH YOU WANT IT FOR HUH?14:48
ceenefreddd: i don't think i want another one yet14:48
freddd>:C14:48
ceenei got two14:48
ceeneunless it's almost free14:48
ceenebut that wouldn't be fair14:48
* freddd ssh's into ceene's N900 and executes self-destroy.sh14:48
ceene:)14:48
fredddUhm ceene so there is this cool app in the store that involves throwing your N900 in the air as high as you can14:49
fredddYou should try it out.14:49
KotCzarnyit works, as long you are a good catcher14:49
L29Ahhow is it named?14:49
KotCzarnyflyn90014:50
KotCzarnyor something14:50
ceenei'm not a good catcher, nor a good thower either14:50
fredddIt has been on there since pretty early on N900 release.14:50
KotCzarnyhttp://my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?fldAuto=1043&faq=4714:50
fredddPretty sure secrelty Nokia endorsed (or manufactured).14:50
mp107I am curious how that app has been debugged/developed etc.14:52
KotCzarnyon a trampoline?14:53
fredddtrampoline park?14:53
KotCzarnymaybe beach14:53
L29Ah> i hope you have Insurance :D my n900 broke but i get new from Insurance14:53
L29Ahcan i haz that thing?14:53
KotCzarnyslightly offtopic: https://mosh.mit.edu/14:54
fredddStop hijacking my ceene N900 sale thread!14:54
L29Ahcan it do vi-like editing?14:54
fredddceene how high did you get yours to fly?14:54
KotCzarnyl29ah: sure, you just have to run vi14:54
fredddI tried to learn vi, I cried, and nano hugged me better.14:55
ceenefreddd: i offer 5 euro plus shipping14:55
DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/n900fly/14:55
fredddshipping is like 6 euros insured id be at a loss here :(14:55
ceene15 euros total max, then14:56
KotCzarnyfreddd: imaging it a donation for open source14:56
fredddI think I rather try to get world record flyn900 instead.14:56
KotCzarny*imagine14:56
L29Ahthere should be an online high score board14:56
KotCzarnyl29ah: pics or it didnt happen14:56
L29Ahyeah it should take pics every second14:56
KotCzarnyalso, i bet there would be cheaters using mechanical aids14:57
fredddthrow it off the eifel tower, have a catcher at the bottom14:57
mp107Parachute?14:57
L29Ahget the catcher killed14:57
KotCzarnyfreddd: it measures both times, ascending+descending14:57
fredddoh14:57
ceenegravity says both times are equal14:58
KotCzarnyceene: parachute?14:58
KotCzarnyair friction?14:58
* freddd puts on an evil smirk, knowing what he has started here ...14:58
fredddI announce official n900fly championship.14:59
KotCzarnyfreddd: no worries, n900 is quite resilient device14:59
MaxdamantusPresumably it works on the difference in deceleration due to air resistance.14:59
mp107Imagine N900 on ISS...14:59
fredddI know it flung many directions many times over the years.14:59
KotCzarnyas long it doesnt land on screen14:59
fredddHaving it on my bed and flinging open the bed sheets.14:59
fredddWoosh.14:59
DocScrutinizer05>> when the phone lands, the time of  flight and respective distance, considering the phone travelled the  same distance going up and down, are shown.<< you can half the value for one way travels, you also can keep the phone in your pocket and see how high or how deep you jumped14:59
MaxdamantusDisregarding the air resistance, there isn't any force exerted on the device.14:59
fredddTo the floor it goes.14:59
fredddNo harm done.14:59
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fredddGuys, too much science, just throw it in the air already.15:00
MaxdamantusI guess it could just be based on the initial and final acceleration too, as you throw and catch it.15:00
fredddThis app has been made 2009. So the guy who bought his N900 must have had the first thought of wanting to throw it in the air of joy.15:01
fredddAnd measure his joy.15:01
KotCzarnymaxd: what about landing with side bump?15:01
Maxdamantusside bump?15:01
KotCzarnykind of bad catch15:01
DocScrutinizer05as already mentioned you can carry the phone in your pocket15:01
DocScrutinizer05which probably is rather interesting for e.g. parcours15:02
L29Ahi wonder if i can fuck the system by rotating it on a rope15:02
KotCzarnythen it will slow only partially15:02
DocScrutinizer05huh?15:02
MaxdamantusL29Ah: rotating it?15:02
L29Ahyeah15:02
KotCzarnyl29ah: go for it, freddd waits for a new customer15:02
MaxdamantusL29Ah: using centrifugal force?15:02
L29Ahrotation = acceleration15:02
L29Ahyep15:02
DocScrutinizer05so what?15:02
MaxdamantusL29Ah: but it should be in freefall.15:02
MaxdamantusL29Ah: freefall = no acceleration15:02
Maxdamantuswhen it's flying through the air, it's not accelerating.15:03
L29Ahsure it's accelerating15:03
DocScrutinizer05???15:03
MaxdamantusIt's following a geodesic.15:03
DocScrutinizer05when device is flying, it has 0g15:03
DocScrutinizer05N900fly measures duration of 0g15:04
L29Ahwat15:04
MaxdamantusL29Ah: put your N900 on a flat surface and look at the accelerometer.15:04
MaxdamantusL29Ah: it should show 1 g.15:04
ceeneif it doesn't follow a rectilinear trajectory, then it's accelerating15:04
KotCzarnymaxd: - friction15:04
MaxdamantusL29Ah: because that surface, if attached to the Earth, is accelerating upwards at 1 g.15:04
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DocScrutinizer05ceene: please!15:04
Maxdamantusceene: it is following a rectilinear trajectory.15:05
KotCzarnymaxd: you are forgetting air resistance15:05
ceene(or decelerating)15:05
Maxdamantusceene: a rectilinear trajectory in special relativity is a geodesic.15:05
KotCzarnyevery item has its own final speed15:05
DocScrutinizer05ceene: the accelerometer measures force to the case, simply spoken15:05
KotCzarnythen air just stop the acceleration15:05
ceenenot if you attach it to a rope15:05
Maxdamantusceene: spacetime is curved.15:05
KotCzarny*stops15:05
DocScrutinizer05as long as no force to case, the whole device is an inertial system15:05
KotCzarnyconstant speed == no accel15:06
L29Ahok so accelerometer doesn't measure acceleration, but a force on a spring-suspended object15:06
DocScrutinizer05exactly15:06
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MaxdamantusNo. That's not right.15:07
MaxdamantusGravity doesn't directly cause acceleration.15:07
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KotCzarnymaxd: lol15:07
DocScrutinizer05that spring suspended object is a tiny mass inside the accelerometer15:07
MaxdamantusWhen a meteor is flying towards the Earth, it's not accelerating.15:07
KotCzarnygravity == force, accel == force vector != 015:07
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MaxdamantusIt accelerates when it hits the Earth and the structure of the Earth pushes it back.15:08
KotCzarnymaxd: you know gravity is not limited?15:08
L29Ah-144 -234 -106215:08
L29Ahcalibration looks sucky15:08
KotCzarnynear zero but not zero?15:08
Maxdamantusjust as the structure of the Earth pushes us up, because it's preventing itself from collapsing, as it would do if it didn't accelerate.15:08
DocScrutinizer05L29Ah: no, you don't hold it 'flat'15:08
L29Ahas it's just lying tilted on a table15:08
KotCzarnywhich means earth's gravity does things on every thing in the universe15:08
KotCzarnyunmeasurable but it's there15:08
ceenewe can now measure gravitational waves15:09
KotCzarnyas an engineer you can always put near zero as zero15:09
DocScrutinizer05not with N90015:09
DocScrutinizer05unless they get waaaaaaaaay stronger than what we seen so far15:09
ceeneso let's use a cluster of n900 :)15:10
KotCzarnyit doesnt work that way15:10
Maxdamantusceene: yes. We can also measure tides.15:10
L29AhDocScrutinizer05: sure but it can't be more than 100015:11
Maxdamantus“Einstein proposed that spacetime is curved by matter, and that free-falling objects are moving along locally straight paths in curved spacetime. These straight paths are called geodesics.”15:11
KotCzarnythey are curved beyond any recognition15:12
L29Ahspacetime has curved my n900 during n900fly15:12
L29Ahfucking einstein15:12
KotCzarnyit also curved you15:13
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ceenehttps://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=81500615:23
ceeneso firefox is back on debian15:23
KotCzarnyicewasel in jessie is ~3715:23
KotCzarnywhich is weird15:23
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MaxdamantusHm. So far reading the thread below, it seems unclear that it's going to happen.15:45
Maxdamantus“I still think we are approaching something dangerous. Sure, we might have the ability to make these patches which Mozilla doesn't think misuse their trademark, but what about users who want to make a heavier modification and redistribute?”15:46
MaxdamantusI was always under the impression that was the exact reason for the rebranding.15:46
MaxdamantusOf course Mozilla is going to be okay with the changes Debian themselves make.15:46
Maxdamantusbut Debian wants to enable pretty much any changes of their software to be used.15:47
KotCzarnyi run firefox unmodified, what changes one could want?15:48
MaxdamantusIf you run it unmodified you probably either compiled it yourself (in which case you're not distributing binaries, so there aren't any TM issues there), or you're using the binaries provided by Mozilla.15:49
Maxdamantuss/not/probably not/15:49
infobotMaxdamantus meant: If you run it unmodified you probably either compiled it yourself (in which case you're probably not distributing binaries, so there aren't any TM issues there), or you're using the binaries provided by Mozilla.15:49
KotCzarnyyes, but i ask what changes they are talking about15:50
MaxdamantusWho?15:50
KotCzarny'users who want to make a heavier modification'15:51
MaxdamantusSo the person I quoted.15:51
MaxdamantusChanging it so it's full of ads.15:52
KotCzarnyads?15:52
KotCzarnywtf?15:52
MaxdamantusAdvertisements.15:52
MaxdamantusFor some political cause or something.15:53
MaxdamantusMozilla probably wouldn't want people distributing debian packages called "Firefox" with ads everywhere.15:53
Maxdamantusbut people should be able to make such derivations of Debian packages.15:54
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MaxdamantusI guess the argument is that once you make those modifications you just have to rebrand your package.16:04
* Maxdamantus sleeps.16:04
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