| JamesJRH | Wizzup_: So I guess the first thing is to just make sure that they see my email (that it's not in spam or what have you). | 00:07 |
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| JamesJRH | Wizzup_: To summarise my email, about technological liberty and the Fairphone, I explain that I think that it's strange that an ethical organisation seems to be ignoring or oblivious to libre software, and I endorse FSF's RYF certification. I also stress that open-source hardware is greatly lagging behind software and that Fairphone could help improve this by aiming for the OSH definition. | 00:15 |
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| JamesJRH | Wizzup_: Then I make a pledge for my support of RYF and OSH, both as money, promotion, and potentially helping out with ideas and software. I say that I'm happy to pay this upfront if they pledge they'll aim for RYF and OSH publicly under the condition that if they don't adhere to their pledge, they refund my pledge. | 00:19 |
| JamesJRH | Wizzup_: Then I go off on a bit of a tangent, detailing my dream phone that I'm aiming for and what my minimum requirements for a phone to be my main phone are (which coïncidentally is almost exactly the specification of the Fairphone 1, mainly just missing an FM radio, an anchor point, and video out, but slighly exceeding a couple of other features). | 00:26 |
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| JamesJRH | It's pretty much just the CPU and the mass that exceed my bare minimum, which I stated as: mass ≤ 300g; CPU at least ARMv7-A dual-core 2×1.2GHz. | 00:33 |
| JamesJRH | The Fairphone is 163g and quad core. | 00:34 |
| JamesJRH | It's a pretty normal mass actually, most of the smartphones that I've considered getting are around 170g, but I really don't care, hence the very loose constraint there. | 00:36 |
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| JamesJRH | I'd rather have 1 device with more features than carry multiple devices. If I carry 2 smartphones that are 170g, that's 340g. | 00:39 |
| bencoh | just put them it two different pockets :> | 00:40 |
| bencoh | (just kidding) | 00:40 |
| JamesJRH | Yep. | 00:40 |
| JamesJRH | I sometimes carry my old LG Optimus 3D because, well, it's stereoscopic and my Sony Xperia Z1 doesn't have that. | 00:42 |
| JamesJRH | What I'm saying is that I wouldn't complain about the mass of a phone being over the typical 170g by any means, because I'd prefer more features to be packed into a single device. Hence why my mass constraint is pretty lax. | 00:44 |
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| JamesJRH | Wizzup_: Do you also care about libre software or open-source hardware? If so, it would be good to let the person you know at Fairphone know that you're also interested. | 00:51 |
| bencoh | the issue with fairphone is not about "opensource hardware" (which usually refers to open schematics/board design and not open chips) but with the SoC itself | 00:54 |
| bencoh | but we've discussed that already | 00:54 |
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| JamesJRH | bencoh: Have we? | 01:00 |
| JamesJRH | Wasn't that the Neo900 we were talking about? | 01:00 |
| JamesJRH | (In #neo900 I think.) | 01:01 |
| JamesJRH | I understand that most chip designs aren't libre, but OSH is a step closer, which I wish to support. | 01:02 |
| bencoh | JamesJRH: we talked about the fairphone using a SoC with a shared-mem/bus design | 01:04 |
| bencoh | (and the modem has access to everyting) | 01:04 |
| JamesJRH | I remember now (with the help of my scrollback). It was on the 9th – wow, it took me so long to write this email. | 01:11 |
| JamesJRH | bencoh: I wrote to Fairphone because they're developing a new one. Hopefully they'll take onboard some of what I've said. | 01:12 |
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| JamesJRH | This email had temporarily taken priority for a few days because I received a couple of emails from their mailing list saying that they're making progress with the Fairphone 2, so the later I left it, the less likely it would be that the Fairphone would be more technologically liberal. | 01:18 |
| JamesJRH | I was told about the Fairphone on the 6th, so I've been thinking about the Fairphone for just over a week now. | 01:28 |
| JamesJRH | I was also thinking about the Neo900 before that, which I found out about on the 4th – okay, 9 and a half days mainly spent thinking about smartphones in the context of technological liberty. I should get back to my BeagleBone Black and NixOS work. | 01:36 |
| JamesJRH | I'm glad to have at least done my best to potentially get something in the pipeline on this matter. | 01:38 |
| JamesJRH | Wizzup_: Let me know if there's anything that you can do to help. | 01:38 |
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| MonkeyofDoom | is there any way to get group chat via MMS to work on maemo? fmms just kind of flops at them | 04:32 |
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| abramelin_ | Hello | 10:25 |
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| abramelin_ | I have switched from a Nokia N900 to an N810, and I find that there are a lot fewer packages available. Is it possible to have a similar software catalog as on the N900? | 10:37 |
| abramelin_ | The catalogues I ahve enabled are http://repository.maemo.org/extras and http://repository.maemo.org (Diablo) | 10:38 |
| abramelin_ | Also, the firmware is OS2008 v5.2008.43-7 | 10:39 |
| abramelin_ | I find that I'm lacking even elementary packages such as alarmed | 10:40 |
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| Wizzup_ | JamesJRH: ack, will forward. wrt my interest: sure, that's why I am here | 10:49 |
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| L29Ah | Luke-Jr: bump n900 overlay commit access | 11:33 |
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| KotCzarny | abramelin_: those are two different platforms, different library versions etc. but you can try to compile newer packages with older scratchbox and see if it works | 12:03 |
| RzR | hi | 12:08 |
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| bencoh | mreow | 13:12 |
| * L29Ah hugs bencoh | 13:12 | |
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| Luke-Jr | L29Ah: ? | 15:35 |
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| Wizzup_ | hmm...trying to install cssu, but it is failing | 16:48 |
| Wizzup_ | It failed when I clicked the cssu icon the application launcher menu | 16:48 |
| Wizzup_ | it failed because downloads.maemo.nokia.com could not be found. | 16:49 |
| Wizzup_ | or resolved. | 16:49 |
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| Wizzup_ | ok - fixed it with help of installation faq | 16:54 |
| Wizzup_ | libwildmidi0 was missing | 16:54 |
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| vakkov | guys, is there a way to use qt creator to develop for n900 these days? i no longer can find madde for fremantle | 17:01 |
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| Wizzup_ | so this n900 device has a lock code | 18:16 |
| Wizzup_ | managed to guess it - 5 zeros | 18:16 |
| Wizzup_ | but I want to *remove* the lock (code) entirely | 18:16 |
| Wizzup_ | changing the lock code only lets me set a different code | 18:16 |
| Wizzup_ | also a bit curious -- it survived flashing | 18:17 |
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| Wizzup_ | L29Ah: wrt you gentoo on maemo, are you planning to take maemo core packages, convert them to ebuilds, and that way bring maemo back on the device? | 18:30 |
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| L29Ah | Luke-Jr: you proposed to do something with the n900 overlay so it will get my updates and continue living in layman | 18:31 |
| L29Ah | Wizzup_: i tried to do this with the multimedia part but stumbled upon closed-source components | 18:31 |
| Wizzup_ | ah, that is the least I care about though | 18:32 |
| L29Ah | i'd like to take more but don't want to do stuff before i'm sure i won't find out a lot of stuff i'm ebuildizing is dependent on blobs | 18:32 |
| L29Ah | for instance, hildon-desktop | 18:32 |
| Wizzup_ | looking at https://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo and https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages | 18:33 |
| Wizzup_ | It seems that if you ignore calendar, accounts, syncing/connectivity frameworks, you may be able to get somewhere | 18:33 |
| Wizzup_ | (and sharing plugins) | 18:34 |
| Wizzup_ | and some system software I don't recognize | 18:34 |
| L29Ah | :* | 18:34 |
| Wizzup_ | what is 'System UI' anyway | 18:34 |
| L29Ah | hildon is fucked up :( | 18:34 |
| L29Ah | *hildon-desktop | 18:34 |
| Wizzup_ | L29Ah: I am thinking of somehow taking all those open packages and debian wheezy (whatever is jessie-1) | 18:35 |
| Wizzup_ | and see what can be ported to it | 18:35 |
| L29Ah | Wizzup_: what maemo parts did you want to have on gentoo? | 18:35 |
| Wizzup_ | from there on work on getting a very basic maemo back | 18:35 |
| Wizzup_ | and then slowly see what closed components are needed | 18:35 |
| Wizzup_ | finally having something like maemo build on top of a recent debian | 18:35 |
| Wizzup_ | L29Ah: everything ;-) | 18:36 |
| L29Ah | ;[ | 18:36 |
| Wizzup_ | I just want maemo to be more modern | 18:36 |
| Luke-Jr | L29Ah: what's your gitlab username? | 18:36 |
| L29Ah | i don't live on gitlab | 18:36 |
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| Wizzup_ | I am just trying to think of the best way forward for maemo | 18:37 |
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| Wizzup_ | it is evident that many non maemo specific packages also need to be upgraded | 18:37 |
| kerio | there's no way forward for maemo | 18:37 |
| kerio | there's not enough people | 18:37 |
| Wizzup_ | That can be fixed. | 18:37 |
| L29Ah | okay i succeeded to login as "l29ah" to gitlab via github; let's see how this works | 18:38 |
| MonkeyofDoom | what's important about Maemo that you want to preserve? | 18:38 |
| Luke-Jr | L29Ah: https://gitlab.com/n900-gentoo/overlay | 18:39 |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: the fact that is a coherent and working environment for touch devices | 18:40 |
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| Wizzup_ | that is mostly free software | 18:40 |
| L29Ah | :* | 18:40 |
| Wizzup_ | it would be great to have that available somewhere | 18:40 |
| Wizzup_ | also since I do not foresee myself using a different phone than the n900 (or neo900) | 18:40 |
| Luke-Jr | Wizzup_: Pyra? | 18:41 |
| L29Ah | btw, i poked ubuntu touch stuff and was disappointed of its interdependencies | 18:41 |
| Wizzup_ | Luke-Jr: meh | 18:41 |
| MonkeyofDoom | what sort of interdependencies? | 18:41 |
| L29Ah | i wanted to pull the dialer-app and it seems like i need to install some half of the system to make it work | 18:42 |
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| Wizzup_ | L29Ah: I can imagine dialer app needs a lot of the contact stuff | 18:42 |
| L29Ah | i stopped after i found out gentoo still lacks some qt5 components | 18:42 |
| MonkeyofDoom | L29Ah: isn't that similar to maemo? | 18:43 |
| L29Ah | tho this chart Wizzup_ posted suggests i can get away with maemo one | 18:43 |
| Luke-Jr | Wizzup_: meh? | 18:43 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I wouldn't imagine the dialer in Maemo can be used in any other environment | 18:43 |
| L29Ah | MonkeyofDoom: dunno yet, never poked the telephony part of it (: | 18:43 |
| Wizzup_ | Luke-Jr: that's mostly my opinion of pyra board :) | 18:44 |
| MonkeyofDoom | the telephony stuff is the only reason I'm running Maemo--nobody tries to keep a N900-compatible telephony stack working for another distro/kernel | 18:44 |
| Wizzup_ | In the near future you may be able to use a mainline kernel and still be able to call | 18:45 |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: What other projects would you suggest? SHR? | 18:45 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I eagerly await said future ;) | 18:45 |
| Luke-Jr | Wizzup_: why meh? :p | 18:45 |
| Wizzup_ | Luke-Jr: it's quite different from the n900, and not meant as a phone that much | 18:45 |
| Wizzup_ | we are talking about the pandora board successor, right? | 18:45 |
| Luke-Jr | N900 wasn't meant as a phone either :P | 18:45 |
| L29Ah | i looked at shr and found it as a rotting gentoo clone | 18:45 |
| MonkeyofDoom | personally, I think GNOME 3 can probably provide a nice touch experience | 18:46 |
| MonkeyofDoom | ofono has the userspace bits of telephony, if the kernel cooperates and if someone gets the voice codec working | 18:46 |
| Wizzup_ | right, so you're basically suggesting to get calls, modem, and a few other things working on something recent that has a decent UI | 18:46 |
| MonkeyofDoom | that's my personal plan | 18:46 |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: cmt-speech has been merged | 18:46 |
| MonkeyofDoom | it's working? :D | 18:47 |
| Wizzup_ | in 4.1-rcsomething | 18:47 |
| Wizzup_ | http://elinux.org/N900 | 18:47 |
| Wizzup_ | https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/3/21/155 | 18:47 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I haven't been on that page in some weeks ;) | 18:47 |
| Wizzup_ | anyway, I'd be happy to also work on whatever is deemed the best approach | 18:47 |
| Wizzup_ | (side note: I don't like gnome much, but willing to do whatever) | 18:48 |
| Wizzup_ | would prefer englightenment or so | 18:48 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I don't like most of GNOME, gconf in particular | 18:48 |
| MonkeyofDoom | but GTK3 is a good toolkit and Wayland would be great | 18:48 |
| Wizzup_ | Why not X? | 18:48 |
| Wizzup_ | just wondering | 18:48 |
| Wizzup_ | I don't want to get into too many details -- because ideally you'd easily swap out X and wayland, if the rest of the base works | 18:48 |
| Wizzup_ | into too many details (where we may differ in opinion)* | 18:49 |
| MonkeyofDoom | with GNOME you can use Mutter under X or as a wl compositor | 18:49 |
| Wizzup_ | you should realise that you then need to get gles working | 18:49 |
| Luke-Jr | L29Ah: well anyway, let me know if you can't push to the overlay now | 18:49 |
| Wizzup_ | I was assuming living without compositing and gles | 18:49 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I think Wayland should be better on battery, what with having fewer processes to context-switch between during user interaction | 18:49 |
| Luke-Jr | L29Ah: I emailed the Gentoo layman maintainers to update the URI there | 18:49 |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: right, well, I couldn't care less about X or wayland unless it becomes a problem, I guess | 18:50 |
| MonkeyofDoom | without GLES compositing on either side, Weston is a lot faster than omapfb X11 in my informal poking | 18:50 |
| MonkeyofDoom | on N900 | 18:50 |
| Wizzup_ | there is kernel mode setting, sin't there? | 18:50 |
| Wizzup_ | so you would not need omapfb either way | 18:50 |
| MonkeyofDoom | setting for what? | 18:51 |
| Wizzup_ | could use fbturbo or just xf86-video-modesetting | 18:51 |
| MonkeyofDoom | mm | 18:51 |
| Wizzup_ | KMS | 18:51 |
| Wizzup_ | fbturbo is particularly fast, in my experience | 18:51 |
| Wizzup_ | (all my machines are ARM, pretty muceh) | 18:51 |
| Wizzup_ | s/muceh/much/ | 18:51 |
| infobot | Wizzup_ meant: (all my machines are ARM, pretty much) | 18:51 |
| Wizzup_ | None of them with accelerated graphics ... except for the n900 | 18:51 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I have distant hopes that some team of heroes might write a cleanroom sgx530 userspace based on docs written from the leaked source | 18:52 |
| Wizzup_ | that will likely never happen | 18:52 |
| MonkeyofDoom | but it'd be insane to wait for or expect that | 18:52 |
| Wizzup_ | but I don't think 3d accel is a must | 18:52 |
| MonkeyofDoom | yeah | 18:52 |
| Wizzup_ | or even a basic requirement | 18:52 |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: I presume you're planning to do this on top of debian initially? | 18:53 |
| Wizzup_ | or? | 18:53 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I would probably go for Arch Linux ARM, just because it's what I'm most familiar with | 18:53 |
| Wizzup_ | argh ;) | 18:54 |
| Wizzup_ | ok | 18:54 |
| MonkeyofDoom | my current setup is a dual-boot/chroot of that and Maemo | 18:54 |
| Wizzup_ | I see | 18:54 |
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| Wizzup_ | I presume Nokia has no interest of releasing the source of the still closed components? | 18:54 |
| Wizzup_ | (at least stuff like accounts related sw) | 18:55 |
| MonkeyofDoom | the hardest bit was finding a mutually compatible (with the Maemo 2.6 kernel and 3.x) version of glibc for the Arch side | 18:55 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I doubt it | 18:55 |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: that's probably quite easy with gentoo | 18:55 |
| MonkeyofDoom | probably | 18:55 |
| Wizzup_ | personally I'd probably prefer to go with musl | 18:55 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I don't know how many glibcisms in common software would be upset if we tried to use musl | 18:56 |
| Wizzup_ | quite some. I have a few musl systems. | 18:56 |
| Wizzup_ | Still, it's all fixable ;) | 18:56 |
| MonkeyofDoom | the accounts stuff seems like it wouldn't be worth porting--something like Telepathy seems a modern implementation of a similar design | 18:56 |
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| Wizzup_ | I thought they used telepathy | 18:56 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I dunno | 18:56 |
| MonkeyofDoom | what's there to port, if so? | 18:56 |
| Wizzup_ | I meant the menus that list your contacts, etc | 18:57 |
| Wizzup_ | I guess that is not accounts - my bad | 18:57 |
| L29Ah | 18:56:01]<MonkeyofDoom> I don't know how many glibcisms in common software would be upset if we tried to use musl | 18:57 |
| L29Ah | i failed to make strace work among other things so i moved on to glibc | 18:57 |
| JamesJRH | Wizzup_: Cheers. | 18:57 |
| L29Ah | glibc-2.19 works with maemo kernel | 18:57 |
| Wizzup_ | I have a working strace, L29Ah | 18:57 |
| MonkeyofDoom | L29Ah: I'm using 2.18 | 18:58 |
| MonkeyofDoom | Wizzup_: one thing I'd like to do in a userspace would be avoid using both Qt and GTK for different essential bits | 18:59 |
| Wizzup_ | yeah, qt seems much more sensible for this... | 18:59 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I prefer GTK since my preferred web browser uses it, and it's C so it's easier to use from C | 18:59 |
| MonkeyofDoom | but in any event using *both* is a needless waste of RSS | 18:59 |
| Wizzup_ | it seems we have similar goals, but some of ours ways to get there are very different ;-) | 19:00 |
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| Wizzup_ | I mean, I too prefer C to C++, but I don't like GTK and Gnome | 19:02 |
| Wizzup_ | especially glib | 19:02 |
| MonkeyofDoom | what's wrong with glib? | 19:03 |
| L29Ah | enlightenment has some touch desktop things afair | 19:03 |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: it cannot even properly handle OOM | 19:03 |
| MonkeyofDoom | that statement applies to about 99% of all software ever written | 19:04 |
| MonkeyofDoom | not to say it's a good thing | 19:04 |
| Wizzup_ | they made it impossible by API | 19:04 |
| Wizzup_ | and won't fix it | 19:04 |
| Wizzup_ | I will find you the bug report | 19:04 |
| MonkeyofDoom | yeah | 19:04 |
| MonkeyofDoom | no, I've seen it | 19:04 |
| Wizzup_ | k | 19:04 |
| MonkeyofDoom | it isn't *good* | 19:04 |
| Wizzup_ | it's terrible :) | 19:04 |
| Wizzup_ | L29Ah: yes, I recall that too, regarding enlightenment | 19:05 |
| Wizzup_ | that's why I suggested it above | 19:05 |
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| Wizzup_ | but yeah, if some of you guys (and girls) decide to write something based on mainline kernel, let know, can definitely share efforts, even is we write it for several current distros | 19:09 |
| Wizzup_ | (arch,debian,gentoo) etc | 19:09 |
| Wizzup_ | I need to dive deeper into maemo in general as well I guess | 19:09 |
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| MonkeyofDoom | yeah, I'll play with Pali's v4.1-rc4 branch | 19:09 |
| Wizzup_ | I need to actually ... shame ... get up dual booting on my n900 | 19:10 |
| Wizzup_ | I have a couple here for playing around | 19:10 |
| MonkeyofDoom | if it can do telephony with ofono, I might have to write enough UI that it's dogfoodable while not ending my social life | 19:10 |
| Wizzup_ | flashing fresh maemo to most of them now | 19:10 |
| MonkeyofDoom | just a dialer, sms tx/rx, and ringing/reception of calls would be enough | 19:11 |
| Wizzup_ | plus a terminal and recent browser | 19:12 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I have those already | 19:12 |
| Wizzup_ | btw, what *is* your browser of preference | 19:12 |
| MonkeyofDoom | urxvt+Midori | 19:12 |
| Wizzup_ | aha | 19:12 |
| Wizzup_ | so do you actually boot arch or chroot only? | 19:12 |
| Wizzup_ | I need to read more about this... | 19:12 |
| MonkeyofDoom | it boots, but recently only chroot because I need Maemo for taking calls | 19:13 |
| L29Ah | how do i run a second xorg on maemo? | 19:13 |
| MonkeyofDoom | no idea | 19:13 |
| MonkeyofDoom | my Arch chroot connects to the Maemo X server | 19:13 |
| Wizzup_ | L29Ah: on a normal/recent kernel and distro, you could just run it on a different tty | 19:14 |
| Wizzup_ | I somehow think that won't work here though | 19:14 |
| Wizzup_ | L29Ah: gentoo on n900 -- chroot only, or? | 19:15 |
| L29Ah | in the end i'd like to boot it itself ofc | 19:16 |
| L29Ah | now it kinda works in a chroot | 19:17 |
| Wizzup_ | well ... looks like the sim card doesn't to be removed anymore | 19:17 |
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| * Wizzup_ brings a fork | 19:17 | |
| Wizzup_ | there we go | 19:18 |
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| KotCzarny | l29ah: you press menu then select 'new' | 20:33 |
| L29Ah | wut | 20:35 |
| KotCzarny | ahm, misread | 20:38 |
| KotCzarny | nvm | 20:38 |
| KotCzarny | as for second xorg you would need different driver in use | 20:39 |
| KotCzarny | you can try xvnc | 20:39 |
| KotCzarny | or something | 20:39 |
| L29Ah | i thought about linux virtual consoles | 20:40 |
| KotCzarny | its not done via xorg | 20:41 |
| L29Ah | sure | 20:41 |
| KotCzarny | and i think omapfb is not a sharing one | 20:41 |
| Sicelo | xserver-xephyr wouldn't suffice? that's what Easy Debian uses | 20:42 |
| L29Ah | well, i guess i just go head-first and won't mess with chroots on n900 at all then | 20:43 |
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| MonkeyofDoom | cross your fingers for my 4.1-rc4 boot | 20:49 |
| MonkeyofDoom | ugh nope | 20:49 |
| L29Ah | init=/bin/bash works fine ;] | 20:49 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I don't have a good Kconfig | 20:50 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I get "No filesystem could mount root, tried: cramfs", so I figured maybe I should set CONFIG_EXT2_FS=y instead of m | 20:50 |
| MonkeyofDoom | but it didn't change anything, unless I missed a step somewhere | 20:50 |
| L29Ah | it should have | 20:51 |
| MonkeyofDoom | yeah, I'm looking to see what I might've missed | 20:51 |
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| MonkeyofDoom | ext2 not in modules.builtin... | 20:52 |
| KotCzarny | try some initrd first? | 20:52 |
| KotCzarny | then you have at least console to poke around | 20:52 |
| KotCzarny | try resueos' one | 20:52 |
| ceene | you should start off with maemo's /proc/config.gz, if it's available | 20:53 |
| Wizzup_ | I don't think that is a good idea | 20:54 |
| Wizzup_ | Likely pali has a defconfig? | 20:54 |
| Pali | defconfig of what? | 20:54 |
| L29Ah | yeah, rx51_defconfig | 20:54 |
| L29Ah | tho it's not related to fs | 20:55 |
| Wizzup_ | ceene: he is trying 4.1-rc4, maemo's /proc/config.gz doesn't seem sensible | 20:55 |
| MonkeyofDoom | L29Ah: not in-tree anymore afaict, I started from a config Pali put on the ML a while back | 20:55 |
| ceene | warfare: it's not going to be that different, and there's make oldconfig for that | 20:55 |
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| Wizzup_ | ceene: I think you underestimate how much that does | 20:55 |
| Wizzup_ | and what you will miss | 20:55 |
| MonkeyofDoom | but I'm not sure what he might've been booting with no filesystems built-in | 20:55 |
| ceene | s/warfare/Wizzup_/ | 20:55 |
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| infobot | ceene meant: Wizzup_: it's not going to be that different, and there's make oldconfig for that | 20:55 |
| Wizzup_ | you're assuming that mainline drivers are called the same as the old kernel | 20:55 |
| L29Ah | well, it's in pali's tree | 20:56 |
| MonkeyofDoom | L29Ah: hm, pointer to it? | 20:56 |
| Wizzup_ | also oldconfig from 2.6.26 to 4.1 is just ... yeah | 20:56 |
| Wizzup_ | ceene: ^ | 20:56 |
| ceene | Wizzup_: of course you have then to revisit everything and make sure it makes sense | 20:56 |
| Wizzup_ | there's not even dts in that | 20:56 |
| Wizzup_ | ceene: no, it will make no sense :) | 20:56 |
| ceene | but i certainly think it's better than starting from scratch | 20:56 |
| Wizzup_ | there is a defconfig for it | 20:56 |
| L29Ah | https://github.com/pali/linux-n900 | 20:56 |
| Wizzup_ | why start from scratch? | 20:56 |
| ceene | if there's a defconfig then you obviously use it | 20:56 |
| Wizzup_ | :) | 20:57 |
| ceene | otherwise, I maintain that it's better to use an old config if it exists rather than starting from zero | 20:57 |
| MonkeyofDoom | L29Ah: no kidding, but I don't believe there's a defconfig for the 4.1-rc4 branch | 20:57 |
| MonkeyofDoom | $ fgrep extmodules.builtin | 20:58 |
| MonkeyofDoom | now we're talking :) | 20:58 |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: should be in some omap config | 20:59 |
| Wizzup_ | I think | 20:59 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I looked, none mentioned e.g. CMT_SPEECH which should definitely be on | 21:00 |
| Wizzup_ | possibly it's not on yet in the config, just the driver merged | 21:00 |
| Wizzup_ | omap2plus_defconfig possibly what you want | 21:00 |
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| Wizzup_ | Pali: defconfig for the mainline kernel to run on n900 | 21:01 |
| Pali | rx51_defconfig in my repo | 21:01 |
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| Wizzup_ | that is not in arch/arm/configs | 21:01 |
| Wizzup_ | actually ,hurrrrr | 21:01 |
| Pali | it is there | 21:01 |
| Wizzup_ | I am not looking at your repo. | 21:01 |
| Pali | must | 21:01 |
| Wizzup_ | sorry. | 21:01 |
| Wizzup_ | I was looking at a local 4.1-rcX | 21:02 |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: ^ :-) | 21:02 |
| MonkeyofDoom | Pali: i.e., https://github.com/pali/linux-n900/blob/v2.6.28-nokia/arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig? | 21:03 |
| Pali | 2.6.28 version? :-) | 21:03 |
| Pali | do not want to use some 4.x? :-) | 21:04 |
| MonkeyofDoom | https://github.com/pali/linux-n900/tree/v4.1-rc4-n900/arch/arm/configs doesn't seem to have an rx51_defconfig | 21:04 |
| MonkeyofDoom | hence my confusion | 21:04 |
| MonkeyofDoom | wait | 21:05 |
| MonkeyofDoom | wtf | 21:05 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I'll use that then, nvm me! | 21:05 |
| Pali | there is :D | 21:05 |
| Pali | https://github.com/pali/linux-n900/blob/v4.1-rc4-n900/arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig | 21:05 |
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| ceene | keep us informed! | 21:08 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 21:08 |
| ceene | it'd be nice having a modern kernel running on 900 | 21:08 |
| KotCzarny | isnt it funny to not be able to run current kernel? | 21:08 |
| MonkeyofDoom | Pali does the hard work, I'm just trying to figure out how to use it on my device ;) | 21:08 |
| Pali | maemo will not boot without modifications | 21:09 |
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| MonkeyofDoom | Pali: I've an Arch rootfs that boots against a fairly upstreamy 3.8 | 21:09 |
| KotCzarny | maemo == bad | 21:09 |
| KotCzarny | lets make linux from scratch! | 21:09 |
| Pali | anything other should somehow work | 21:09 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I want to see how ofono works with the cmt-speech stuff :) | 21:09 |
| * Wizzup_ is thinking about the right way to make his own system | 21:09 | |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: do let me know | 21:09 |
| Wizzup_ | or, us | 21:09 |
| MonkeyofDoom | of course | 21:10 |
| * L29Ah slaps KotCzarny with a pdf file | 21:10 | |
| KotCzarny | pft | 21:10 |
| bencoh | poor pdf file | 21:10 |
| KotCzarny | pe-do-file slapper :P | 21:10 |
| ceene | maemo is quite strange itself | 21:10 |
| ceene | let's build a cool touch window manager / desktop and run it on top of debian | 21:11 |
| ceene | :P | 21:11 |
| L29Ah | debian is quite strange itself | 21:11 |
| L29Ah | let's build a cool touch window manager / desktop and run it on top of gentoo | 21:11 |
| L29Ah | :P | 21:11 |
| ceene | let's build a cool touch window manager / desktop and run it on top of any modern distro :P | 21:11 |
| Wizzup_ | ceene: yes | 21:12 |
| Wizzup_ | My plan is to (make some time...) and then start writing something | 21:12 |
| Wizzup_ | can easily be packaged for several distros | 21:12 |
| L29Ah | fedora and sailfish are the only modern distros :P | 21:12 |
| ceene | i don't even have the time to maintain yappari | 21:12 |
| ceene | :( | 21:12 |
| Wizzup_ | L29Ah: wait, what? | 21:12 |
| Wizzup_ | I used yappari for a bit :) | 21:12 |
| Wizzup_ | Then my number got blocked | 21:12 |
| Wizzup_ | (no big deal) | 21:12 |
| ceene | sorry :( | 21:13 |
| ceene | coderus wrote a guide on getting your number unblocked | 21:13 |
| Wizzup_ | np :D | 21:13 |
| Wizzup_ | I only used it ever on my n900 | 21:13 |
| Wizzup_ | I'm not locked in to whatsapp :D | 21:13 |
| Wizzup_ | it was just funny that they are such ****(whatsapp) | 21:13 |
| KotCzarny | lets keep away from dependency hell! | 21:14 |
| Wizzup_ | hmm? | 21:14 |
| KotCzarny | that was about debian | 21:14 |
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| ceene | i don't think debian has any dependency hell | 21:15 |
| KotCzarny | though i dont have anything against apt | 21:15 |
| Wizzup_ | well, if I do anything, I *start* with gentoo, and then port it over :) | 21:15 |
| KotCzarny | ceene, yeah, right | 21:15 |
| ceene | but you have to be very disciplined to make good .deb files | 21:15 |
| Wizzup_ | debian is nice for many thigns :) | 21:15 |
| ceene | with the correct dependencies | 21:15 |
| Wizzup_ | things* | 21:15 |
| ceene | i've never had any problem with debian | 21:15 |
| ceene | to be honest | 21:15 |
| KotCzarny | ever tried -testing ? | 21:15 |
| ceene | since 2000 i don't run anything else on any of my computers | 21:15 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 21:15 |
| ceene | i use sid on everything | 21:16 |
| ceene | and sometimes some package from experimental | 21:16 |
| ceene | sometimes a couple things break | 21:16 |
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| KotCzarny | as for problems, autoremover goes hairy for unknown reasons | 21:16 |
| ceene | but nothing out of the ordinary i think | 21:16 |
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| ceene | i use debfoster to choose one by one what I want to remove | 21:17 |
| ceene | uhnm, gotta go no | 21:17 |
| ceene | surprise family reunion | 21:17 |
| ceene | cya! | 21:17 |
| Sicelo | btw, re-whatsapp blocks .. it's only temporary (but long enough to frustrate) | 21:17 |
| Sicelo | my number got unblocked without any action from myself .. i just used a new number in the meantime :p | 21:19 |
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| MonkeyofDoom | 5 boots later... | 21:41 |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: getting there? | 21:41 |
| MonkeyofDoom | still making progress | 21:41 |
| MonkeyofDoom | ooh | 21:41 |
| MonkeyofDoom | bcm2048 failed to modprobe with a friendly backtrace | 21:42 |
| MonkeyofDoom | now systemd is bouncing between 3 start jobs that don't seem to be starting | 21:43 |
| MonkeyofDoom | "Welcome to emergency mode!" :) | 21:43 |
| Wizzup_ | ah...systemd | 21:43 |
| Wizzup_ | found the problem | 21:44 |
| Wizzup_ | ;) | 21:44 |
| MonkeyofDoom | lots of weird "dpll1_ck failed to ttransition to 'locked'" around couple-second hangs | 21:45 |
| MonkeyofDoom | idk what that means | 21:45 |
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| MonkeyofDoom | "omap_hwmod: ssi: doesn't have mpu register target base" | 21:46 |
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| L29Ah | 21:45:08]<MonkeyofDoom> lots of weird "dpll1_ck failed to ttransition to 'locked'" around couple-second hangs | 21:46 |
| L29Ah | yeah i got same stuff | 21:46 |
| MonkeyofDoom | "clk rate mismatch: 96000000 != 172800000" | 21:46 |
| * Wizzup_ is seriously thinking about writing his own ui/ipc/wm/launcher for the n900 | 21:48 | |
| * L29Ah seriously wants a touch-friendly dmenu | 21:49 | |
| L29Ah | with randomart icons ;] | 21:49 |
| Wizzup_ | I have some nice ideas :) | 21:50 |
| MonkeyofDoom | those dpll1_ck messages+hangs line up with CPU spikes in htop, attributed to no process | 21:50 |
| MonkeyofDoom | poor kernel ;_; | 21:50 |
| KotCzarny | monkeyofdoom: can you please try with normal sysvinit? | 21:50 |
| Wizzup_ | or init=/bin/bash | 21:50 |
| L29Ah | it'll be same | 21:50 |
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| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: but it booted? :) | 21:51 |
| MonkeyofDoom | yeah | 21:51 |
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| MonkeyofDoom | alsa didn't work, didn't try networking, didn't try X | 21:51 |
| Wizzup_ | I would be very surprised if audio already worked | 21:51 |
| Wizzup_ | networking and X is probably fine | 21:52 |
| MonkeyofDoom | audio used to work in mainline | 21:52 |
| KotCzarny | you can run oscp | 21:52 |
| Wizzup_ | man, I'm getting waaay too excited about all of this | 21:52 |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: ah, right | 21:52 |
| KotCzarny | it has console mode is light on deps | 21:52 |
| MonkeyofDoom | whined about not finding a GPIO for the tvout | 21:52 |
| Wizzup_ | KotCzarny: oscp? | 21:52 |
| KotCzarny | audio player | 21:52 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 21:52 |
| KotCzarny | there is also pure alsa build | 21:52 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I use mpv :) | 21:52 |
| Wizzup_ | right | 21:52 |
| KotCzarny | monkeyofdoom: for audio its a bit overkill? | 21:53 |
| Wizzup_ | you can compile it without X | 21:53 |
| MonkeyofDoom | sure, but it has a nice control socket and plays anything | 21:53 |
| L29Ah | control socket? huh? | 21:54 |
| MonkeyofDoom | for sending commands from hotkeys | 21:54 |
| L29Ah | i thought mpv dropped all this in favour of their lua api | 21:54 |
| MonkeyofDoom | nah | 21:54 |
| KotCzarny | monkeyofdoom: midis? sids? nes? | 21:54 |
| MonkeyofDoom | perhaps, I don't have any of those | 21:54 |
| KotCzarny | ldd mpv|wc -l ? | 21:55 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 21:55 |
| MonkeyofDoom | 211 | 21:55 |
| KotCzarny | seriously? | 21:55 |
| Wizzup_ | 67 here, with X enabled | 21:55 |
| Wizzup_ | removing a lot of stuff will probably save a lot | 21:55 |
| Wizzup_ | think I can probably get it down to 12 or so | 21:55 |
| KotCzarny | ldd /usr/local/bin/oscp|wc -l | 21:56 |
| KotCzarny | 10 | 21:56 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 21:56 |
| KotCzarny | without removing anything | 21:56 |
| Wizzup_ | but he was happy with mpv | 21:56 |
| MonkeyofDoom | I don't doubt it's a much smaller, simpler program! | 21:56 |
| KotCzarny | all formats supported including network ones | 21:56 |
| Wizzup_ | KotCzarny: when I say remove, I mean set USE flag.... | 21:56 |
| Wizzup_ | there's also avplay... | 21:56 |
| KotCzarny | avplay doesnt play more exotic things | 21:56 |
| KotCzarny | like midi | 21:56 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 21:56 |
| Wizzup_ | yes, and to test audio, I don't need it | 21:57 |
| Wizzup_ | I mean, I don't understand what you're trying to sell here :P | 21:57 |
| KotCzarny | sure, for testing audio you can use cat | 21:57 |
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| KotCzarny | or cp | 21:57 |
| KotCzarny | or dd | 21:57 |
| Wizzup_ | aplay... :) | 21:57 |
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| KotCzarny | see 'dependency hell' part | 21:57 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 21:57 |
| L29Ah | 90 here ;p | 21:57 |
| L29Ah | don't see the 'hell' part | 21:58 |
| Wizzup_ | KotCzarny: I don't see optional (configure time) stuff as dependency | 21:58 |
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| KotCzarny | hell == install every available library or dont work :P | 21:58 |
| Wizzup_ | Why do we even have this discussion :) | 21:59 |
| L29Ah | i guess because KotCzarny didn't use gentoo | 21:59 |
| KotCzarny | that's true | 21:59 |
| MonkeyofDoom | anyhow I'll have to dig through my kernel log in detail later | 21:59 |
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| Wizzup_ | fwiw I am considering using qtile as wm | 22:31 |
| Wizzup_ | seems hackable enough to make it mostly touch friendly | 22:31 |
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| ceene | looks good | 22:39 |
| Wizzup_ | once I get a bit further I'll post some details here -- next few days are filled with work | 22:40 |
| Wizzup_ | MonkeyofDoom: well, it should work with ofono: https://lwn.net/Articles/637499/ | 22:42 |
| KotCzarny | but honestly, first we need a base system with updated libs | 22:42 |
| KotCzarny | wm and rest should be easily replaceable without hacking | 22:43 |
| L29Ah | what is a "base system"? | 22:43 |
| Wizzup_ | KotCzarny: what I will do is, use my own system as playing ground, with xnest or xephyr, write some basic things, put on the n900 with gentoo n sd card | 22:43 |
| Wizzup_ | I do not intent to use maemo | 22:44 |
| Wizzup_ | althought that was the original intent | 22:44 |
| ceene | the definition of what is maemo is in fact a bit ambiguous, is it? | 22:44 |
| Wizzup_ | it's debian with some open and closed bits slapped on top, that generally work very well | 22:44 |
| Wizzup_ | I don't aim to make something as slick | 22:44 |
| ceene | from the point of view of a very simple user maemo is simply the window manager | 22:44 |
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| ceene | and the settings app | 22:45 |
| ceene | everything else is nice widgets for a touch screen | 22:45 |
| KotCzarny | maemo is more than that | 22:45 |
| KotCzarny | hacks run deep | 22:45 |
| KotCzarny | kernel, dbus | 22:45 |
| ceene | the rest is infraestructure, as important is it may be, the user doesn't care at all what is running below what he sees | 22:45 |
| Wizzup_ | ceene: yes, maemo is quite a bit more, including sharing, accounts, and many other things | 22:46 |
| KotCzarny | sure, but then maemo is a gtk/qt theme | 22:46 |
| Wizzup_ | what I really want to try is just the most basic thing with a sensible design, and add stuff where required | 22:46 |
| KotCzarny | also, what wizzup said | 22:46 |
| ceene | :) | 22:46 |
| Wizzup_ | but from my side it's all talk now -- almost finished flashing the remaining n900s ... | 22:46 |
| KotCzarny | can plain xorg be run with pali's 2.6.32 ? | 22:47 |
| KotCzarny | or 4.x? | 22:47 |
| ceene | maemo's X are patched? | 22:47 |
| Wizzup_ | probably | 22:48 |
| ceene | everything is a big patch :/ | 22:48 |
| Wizzup_ | KotCzarny: with 4.x? I would think so | 22:48 |
| Wizzup_ | elinux.org lists KMS support | 22:48 |
| Wizzup_ | so then surely a fb must work | 22:48 |
| KotCzarny | accelerated 2d would be sweet | 22:48 |
| KotCzarny | but honestly i would be happy with anything working | 22:49 |
| Wizzup_ | I think that point is slowly being reached kernel side ;) | 22:49 |
| L29Ah | yay seems like a cross-toolchain is up | 22:50 |
| L29Ah | gnu tools are so self-centered ;[ | 22:50 |
| ceene | i enjoy a lot buildroot | 22:53 |
| ceene | it could be a nice starting point for a very minimal distro | 22:53 |
| ceene | with ipkg on top of that for extra packages | 22:53 |
| KotCzarny | not a bad idea | 22:55 |
| KotCzarny | port openwrt ? | 22:55 |
| Wizzup_ | why openwrt? ugh | 22:55 |
| ceene | well | 22:55 |
| ceene | opkg is the thing that works now | 22:56 |
| Wizzup_ | alpine linux is good. | 22:56 |
| ceene | not ipkg | 22:56 |
| KotCzarny | for packages and stuff | 22:56 |
| ceene | but the concept is the same | 22:56 |
| Wizzup_ | but really, my point was that it should not depend on the distro | 22:56 |
| ceene | yes, opkg is what openwrt uses | 22:56 |
| Wizzup_ | http://alpinelinux.org/ | 22:56 |
| KotCzarny | wizzup, having use-ready package pool would be nice | 22:56 |
| L29Ah | buildroot is too dumb | 22:56 |
| ceene | Opkg was originally forked from ipkg by the Openmoko project.[3] More recently, development of opkg has moved from its old Google Code repository to Yocto Project where it is actively maintained again. | 22:56 |
| Wizzup_ | KotCzarny: so packages your maemo-clone UI + daemons for the distro | 22:56 |
| Wizzup_ | done | 22:56 |
| Wizzup_ | is my point | 22:56 |
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| ceene | buildroot is great for what it is: building read only root file systems | 22:57 |
| Wizzup_ | my musl based headless systems use about 7MB of ram. | 22:57 |
| Wizzup_ | qed ;) | 22:57 |
| KotCzarny | wizzup: anything recent, i would even use a redhat | 22:57 |
| ceene | opkg is distro-agnostic | 22:57 |
| Wizzup_ | KotCzarny: my point was that if I am going to do that, I will first develop it with gentoo (because I work with that, saves *me* time) and then port it over to arch/debian whatever | 22:57 |
| Wizzup_ | apt doesn't seem too bad for some application manager tool | 22:58 |
| Wizzup_ | could even take many things from maemo then | 22:58 |
| ceene | the only bad thing about apt | 22:58 |
| ceene | is that .deb files must be created with great care | 22:58 |
| ceene | or you end up with lots of missing dependencies | 22:58 |
| Wizzup_ | point is that the *PACKAGE* *MANAGER* is not really the business of the mobile UI | 22:58 |
| Wizzup_ | :D | 22:58 |
| KotCzarny | wizzup, backward compatibility for maemo5 app pool? | 22:58 |
| Wizzup_ | no | 22:58 |
| ceene | there are lots of .deb packages for n900 that do install but are simply horrible to use | 22:58 |
| Wizzup_ | I meant look at the application manager and take useful parts from it | 22:58 |
| ceene | because you manually have to install X other packages | 22:58 |
| ceene | and remove them manually if you want | 22:59 |
| Wizzup_ | you could even take the whole thing, minus existing packages | 22:59 |
| Wizzup_ | It's not like it's different with opkg or any other. | 22:59 |
| Wizzup_ | if a dependency is missing, you can't install it | 22:59 |
| ceene | truth is, if you want to make a mobile distro, the package manager is probably the last thing you want to take care of | 22:59 |
| Wizzup_ | because it won't work | 22:59 |
| ceene | yep | 22:59 |
| Wizzup_ | that's what I said/meant | 22:59 |
| ceene | yes, you're right in that | 22:59 |
| Wizzup_ | next week I hope to have some work done, will share that then | 22:59 |
| KotCzarny | oscp would work even without package manager | 22:59 |
| ceene | you start off with gentoo | 22:59 |
| Wizzup_ | KotCzarny: ... :) | 22:59 |
| KotCzarny | because it relies only on system libs | 22:59 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 23:00 |
| ceene | and code a good window manager | 23:00 |
| ceene | or connection manager | 23:00 |
| ceene | or whatever | 23:00 |
| Wizzup_ | ceene: likely use qtile | 23:00 |
| Wizzup_ | but, yes | 23:00 |
| ceene | and it can then run wherever | 23:00 |
| KotCzarny | and a good rescue system | 23:00 |
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| Wizzup_ | ceene: planned to play around with it with xnest first even | 23:00 |
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| ceene | it seems wise | 23:01 |
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| ceene | i'd offer my help but i know i won't have the time :( | 23:02 |
| Wizzup_ | L29Ah: gentoo has an ofono package, have you tried that? | 23:02 |
| Wizzup_ | ceene: meh, it's the same for me, I just excited, and if I keep getting excited I will simply make time | 23:02 |
| L29Ah | Wizzup_: i built it | 23:03 |
| Wizzup_ | tried it on 4.1 or 2.6.x? | 23:03 |
| L29Ah | i didn't try to use it as i'm yet to make xorg work | 23:03 |
| Wizzup_ | on 2.6? | 23:03 |
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| L29Ah | i guess 2.6 is the way to go atm cuz this periodic hanging bug is a show-stopper | 23:04 |
| L29Ah | compiling firefox in a qemu chroot atm, guess will move the updated system to n900 in a few days | 23:05 |
| L29Ah | wanted to try building ghc first | 23:05 |
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| bencoh | firefox, seriously ? | 23:07 |
| bencoh | with a qemu-ed compiler ? | 23:08 |
| Wizzup_ | bencoh: if you have time, why not | 23:08 |
| Wizzup_ | L29Ah: what version of firefox? | 23:08 |
| Wizzup_ | I can save you a lot of pain. | 23:08 |
| Wizzup_ | oh -- darn -- the build machine I promised | 23:08 |
| Wizzup_ | well, I am at the location now (home), so I can do that this week hopefully | 23:08 |
| Wizzup_ | L29Ah: anyway, if you want, I have a pre-build firefox+nss etc | 23:09 |
| Wizzup_ | for arm, as gentoo binpkg | 23:09 |
| Wizzup_ | and if you're building <38.0, **build will fail** | 23:09 |
| Wizzup_ | (in your case, after a few days) | 23:09 |
| KotCzarny | lol | 23:09 |
| Wizzup_ | like I said, all my work machines are ARM, running gentoo | 23:10 |
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| ceene | you have desktop ARM machines? | 23:26 |
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