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| gregoa | &g 25 | 00:35 |
|---|---|---|
| Maxdamantus | So has someone made something like bq27200.sh that uses the kernel module instead of i2c? | 00:40 |
| * Maxdamantus just did a hack modification to it. | 00:40 | |
| Maxdamantus | ./i2cget (){ sed '/^'"$4"'/!d; s/^[^=]*=//' </sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/registers; } | 00:40 |
| Maxdamantus | though had to lower-case some uses of the command. | 00:41 |
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| bencoh | bleh, stryngs disconnected | 00:53 |
| bencoh | for the record, apt-get source libc6 works in scratchbox (it comes from fremantle/sdk/free) | 00:54 |
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| Maxdamantus | Yay, won a race in typeracer on my N900. | 01:59 |
| Oksana | :-) | 02:14 |
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| Sicelo_ | i will install cssu-t sometime soon | 07:37 |
| Sicelo_ | sorry | 07:37 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo_: why sorry? | 07:41 |
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| zGrr | moin :) | 09:25 |
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| bencoh | yay, just received a new polarcell | 11:46 |
| bencoh | now ... do I need to do anything to "calibrate" it ? | 11:47 |
| kerio | you can calibrate the bq27200 chip in the n900 if you want | 11:49 |
| kerio | but it's not something that's used by the standard BME | 11:49 |
| kerio | so it won't be reflected by the battery applet, for instance | 11:49 |
| bencoh | hmm | 11:57 |
| bencoh | does it mean that bme has some hardcoded constants for nokia bl-5j ? | 11:57 |
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| kerio | nobody knows what bme does | 12:00 |
| kerio | except that it's shit | 12:00 |
| bencoh | :] | 12:00 |
| Vajb | i thought that bme just uses that resistor value to estimate capacity | 12:00 |
| bencoh | hmm | 12:00 |
| Vajb | tho bme replacemnt seams to lean on same value... | 12:01 |
| Vajb | bleh | 12:01 |
| Vajb | seems | 12:01 |
| kerio | you don't understand how bme replacement works then | 12:01 |
| bencoh | how does it work ? | 12:01 |
| Vajb | that is so true :) | 12:02 |
| kerio | if bq27k is calibrated, it'll use all the values from it | 12:02 |
| Vajb | but i can clearly see what my battery applet shows and what not | 12:02 |
| kerio | otherwise it'll use the resistor value | 12:02 |
| kerio | if rx51_battery is loaded | 12:03 |
| Vajb | well it is calibrated but value is not even close to last measured discharge value | 12:03 |
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| kerio | then it's not calibrated | 12:04 |
| Vajb | 1487 last measured and applet shows 1277 | 12:04 |
| kerio | CI? | 12:04 |
| kerio | it's one of the flags | 12:04 |
| Vajb | ci? | 12:04 |
| kerio | it's one of the flags | 12:04 |
| bencoh | looks like rx51_battery is loaded but unused according to lsmod | 12:04 |
| bencoh | I'm using the original bme though | 12:04 |
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| bencoh | (cssu-s) | 12:05 |
| Vajb | ci:1 | 12:05 |
| kerio | Vajb: so there you go | 12:05 |
| bencoh | or does it just periodically check a /sys entry ? | 12:05 |
| kerio | it's not calibrated | 12:05 |
| Vajb | hmm how come? | 12:05 |
| kerio | because the calibration was marked invalid due to aging | 12:05 |
| Vajb | i ran bq five times | 12:05 |
| Vajb | and this is quite new battery | 12:06 |
| Vajb | two months maybe | 12:06 |
| kerio | CI is set after 30 charge cycles | 12:06 |
| Vajb | but ok ci is the flag to follow | 12:06 |
| Vajb | guess it should be 0 then | 12:06 |
| kerio | it's not that "it should be 0" | 12:06 |
| kerio | it's that if CI is set, you can't trust the bq27k values | 12:07 |
| kerio | that's what the flag means | 12:07 |
| kerio | it's also set in case of extreme conditions, iirc | 12:07 |
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| bencoh | what I understand from this is that nokia fucked up with an onboard charge controler :p | 12:14 |
| kerio | eeh | 12:14 |
| kerio | bq27k is intended to be attached to the battery itself, yes | 12:15 |
| bencoh | I hope that batteries are cheaper at least | 12:15 |
| kerio | i don't think the cost of a chip is relevant | 12:15 |
| bencoh | I mean, effectively cheaper, for customers (us) | 12:15 |
| bencoh | then it was a stupid idea :) | 12:15 |
| kerio | the cost of raw nand compared to the cost of a uSD is pretty much the same | 12:15 |
| kerio | even though a uSD has some extra component | 12:16 |
| kerio | *components | 12:16 |
| bencoh | kerio: bottomline ... should I do anything regarding the new polarcell, apart from just swapping it with the old one ? :) | 12:17 |
| kerio | recalibrate bq27k, if you want | 12:17 |
| kerio | but it's hard to calibrate it if you're running bme_rx51 | 12:18 |
| bencoh | does bme remplacement run on cssu-s ? | 12:18 |
| Maxdamantus | Why is it hard to calibrate if you're running bme_rx51? Because it shuts down the system? | 12:19 |
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| Vajb | kerio: so i need to run bq272k 30 times to calibrate or just load and discharge my battery normally 30 times? It shows now that i had 35 cycles since last calibration | 12:25 |
| kerio | wut | 12:26 |
| kerio | no, you just do the calibration once | 12:26 |
| kerio | it'll last for 30 cycles | 12:26 |
| Vajb | but it never showed the right value so i guess it was never succesfull | 12:26 |
| kerio | huh | 12:26 |
| kerio | that's weird | 12:26 |
| kerio | are you sure you have the bme replacement installed? | 12:27 |
| Maxdamantus | cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/capacity | 12:27 |
| kerio | and not some weird battery applet | 12:27 |
| bencoh | 11:26 < kerio> no, you just do the calibration once | 12:27 |
| bencoh | 11:26 < kerio> it'll last for 30 cycles | 12:27 |
| Vajb | i mean it changed value everytime, but it was always 200mah less | 12:27 |
| kerio | ah yes, that's another issue | 12:27 |
| kerio | bq27k won't adjust too much | 12:28 |
| kerio | so until you get two calibrations in a row with roughly the same value, you're not getting a correct value | 12:28 |
| bencoh | bleh | 12:28 |
| bencoh | it feels like black magic | 12:28 |
| kerio | it's to avoid outliners | 12:28 |
| kerio | because of weird issues | 12:28 |
| kerio | but, again, it shows that bq27k was supposed to be attached to a constant power source | 12:29 |
| kerio | because you lose the calibration when you switch battery | 12:29 |
| bencoh | exactly | 12:29 |
| Maxdamantus | Would it still actually be effective even if part of the battery? | 12:29 |
| kerio | of course | 12:29 |
| bencoh | it would be calibrated once and for all | 12:29 |
| Maxdamantus | I don't think I ever let my N900 fully charge then fully discharge, until a few days ago. | 12:30 |
| kerio | you just have to be mindful that every once in a while, you have to let it discharge completely | 12:30 |
| Maxdamantus | for the almost-year I've had it. | 12:30 |
| Maxdamantus | Yeah, so it's something users have to consciously do. | 12:30 |
| bencoh | Maxdamantus: same here, but my old polarcell has never shown anything beyond 1230mAh | 12:31 |
| bencoh | (I dunno how old it is) | 12:31 |
| kerio | not all polarcells are equal i guess | 12:31 |
| bencoh | prolly | 12:31 |
| kerio | i bought a random-ass battery with no discernible brand | 12:31 |
| Maxdamantus | and what does it mean by the 30 charge cycles? | 12:31 |
| kerio | and i got a ~1500mAh thing | 12:31 |
| bencoh | and I guess they age too | 12:31 |
| Maxdamantus | what constitutes a charge cycle, if not letting it fully charge then fully discharge? | 12:32 |
| Maxdamantus | (which should calibrate it) | 12:32 |
| kerio | charging and discharging a total of LMD | 12:32 |
| kerio | so if you discharge from 100% to 50% and then charge it back to 100% twice, it's a cycle | 12:32 |
| Maxdamantus | Ah. | 12:32 |
| kerio | or roughly a cycle i guess | 12:33 |
| kerio | bq27k does some automatic lowering of LMD as time goes | 12:33 |
| kerio | so your expectations are never too high | 12:33 |
| kerio | it's a pretty nice chip :3 | 12:33 |
| bencoh | kerio: buying a random noname battery feels like placing a bet | 12:34 |
| bencoh | "will it blend ?" | 12:34 |
| Maxdamantus | I'm still sceptical about the fact that users would have to consciously calibrate it. | 12:34 |
| kerio | it was suggested by vi____, iirc | 12:34 |
| kerio | Maxdamantus: if you want really accurate measurements, it's even worse | 12:35 |
| bencoh | vi____ ? | 12:35 |
| kerio | because the faster you discharge it, the less charge it's going to show | 12:35 |
| kerio | because it's not an ideal capacitor | 12:35 |
| kerio | there's lots of chemical bullshit going on in a lithium battery | 12:35 |
| bencoh | it's no bullshit :p | 12:35 |
| Maxdamantus | I think I found the opposite. | 12:36 |
| bencoh | (no, I'm no chemist) | 12:36 |
| Maxdamantus | When I first tried to calibrate it a few days ago, I discharged it in about two hours, and it recorded the LMD as 1486 mAh. | 12:36 |
| Maxdamantus | It's now down to 1177 mAh after another similarly fast one (~2h30) and one slow one (~20h) | 12:38 |
| kerio | yeah, because your battery is roughly 1200 but the default was 1500 | 12:39 |
| kerio | so you need two or three calibrations to get an accurate value | 12:39 |
| kerio | regardless of how fast you're discharging the battery :) | 12:39 |
| Maxdamantus | The default where? | 12:39 |
| Maxdamantus | provided by the chip manufacturer? | 12:40 |
| Maxdamantus | or did the previous user use a higher-capacity battery? | 12:40 |
| kerio | the default in bq27k, yes | 12:40 |
| Maxdamantus | Mm. | 12:40 |
| kerio | no no, the data is reset when you pull the battery | 12:40 |
| kerio | istr it's not attached to the backup battery | 12:40 |
| kerio | which is probably not working anyway | 12:40 |
| Maxdamantus | Indeed. | 12:41 |
| Maxdamantus | Hm. I though I'd already pulled the battery out (long enough for it to forget the time) since the first calibration. | 12:42 |
| Maxdamantus | maybe I haven't. | 12:43 |
| kerio | ooh actually i'm wrong | 12:44 |
| kerio | the default is ILMD | 12:44 |
| kerio | Initial Last Measured Discharge (ILMD): 2056.32 mAh | 12:44 |
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| Maxdamantus | on the N900? | 12:45 |
| Maxdamantus | It looks like the ILMD is meant to be programmed in. | 12:45 |
| kerio | yep | 12:46 |
| kerio | but it wasn't programmed | 12:46 |
| Maxdamantus | Heh, because they weren't expecting to use it. | 12:46 |
| kerio | it's not particularly meaningful, the way it was implemented on the n900 | 12:46 |
| kerio | you program a batch of chips with the approximate charge your batteries are going to hold | 12:46 |
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| bencoh | 11:44 < kerio> Initial Last Measured Discharge (ILMD): 2056.32 mAh | 12:53 |
| bencoh | wait, what ? 2056mah ? | 12:53 |
| bencoh | where does that come from ? | 12:54 |
| * Maxdamantus wonders if it'd be better if the software let people specify what they think the battery's capacity is. | 12:55 | |
| bencoh | prolly not | 12:56 |
| Maxdamantus | and just use that and `LMD - NAC` | 12:56 |
| kerio | it's not linear | 12:57 |
| kerio | it's used as a starting point for calculations | 12:57 |
| Pali | initial value comes from EEPROM chip in n900 | 13:01 |
| Pali | programmed by Nokia | 13:02 |
| kerio | why wasn't it set in a more sensible way, tho | 13:06 |
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| Pali | kerio: because nokia bme does not use ILMD, so it was probably programmed to default max value | 13:45 |
| kerio | yeah but | 13:46 |
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| kerio | they know their BL-5J | 13:46 |
| Pali | I think they did not set ILMD value and by default some factory settings is 0xFFFF or so | 13:46 |
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| kerio | oic | 13:47 |
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| Vajb | i guess bme replacement is now sorted. So maybe someone can explain how is it possible that my n900 still reboots daily with sw_rst even though i have r&d mode enabled with 3 wd flags | 14:18 |
| Vajb | syslog doesn't show anything unusuall. Is there other ways to debug? | 14:19 |
| Pali | lifeguard reset? | 14:35 |
| Pali | hw reset? | 14:36 |
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| Vajb | enabled | 14:48 |
| Vajb | also omap is enabled | 14:48 |
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| Pali | then some hw reset.. low battery? other hw problem? | 15:56 |
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| Vajb | battery is fresh | 16:13 |
| Vajb | dunno about hw problems. Everything seems to work | 16:13 |
| Vajb | also worth mentioning is that it has no sim just wlan connection always on | 16:14 |
| Vajb | i thought first that maybe battery connection is the cause, but tightening them brought no difference | 16:15 |
| Vajb | how to pinpoint hw problem? | 16:15 |
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| Pali | provide syslog | 17:10 |
| Pali | maybe there is something | 17:10 |
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| Vajb | r there any specific lines to search for? | 17:17 |
| Vajb | give my device a few days and it will produce syslog to look at. | 17:18 |
| Vajb | should i post it to pastebin for example? | 17:18 |
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| Pali | there must be something which caused reboot | 17:38 |
| Pali | either regular reboot (and rsyslogd daemon write to systlog that was stopped) or HW reboot (no indication about regular reboot) | 17:39 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: EEPROM? | 18:01 |
| freemangordon | if it is EEPROM we can reprogram it | 18:01 |
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| Pali | freemangordon: cannot, it is connected to bq chip | 19:25 |
| Pali | and reprogramming needs some voltage on hw level... | 19:25 |
| Pali | ask shadowjk, he could know more... | 19:26 |
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| ShadowJK | iirc 40V on pins not exposed | 20:15 |
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| stryngs | Is it insane to upgrade dpkg itself? | 22:29 |
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| stryngs | Would it break my n900? | 22:29 |
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| stryngs | Nobody? =-) | 22:45 |
| stryngs | Common folks, I'm trying to build a native package builder for the n900 | 22:46 |
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| stryngs | This will be of great use to those who wish to build .debs directly on their n900 | 22:46 |
| stryngs | Just need a wee bit o help | 22:46 |
| Sicelo_ | dpkg did get updated in some CSSU version iirc.. anyway, since you do things your own way, i'd say take a backup, try what you want, and see... | 22:53 |
| stryngs | true =) | 22:53 |
| stryngs | It'll be neat though Sicelo, a native dh_make and such | 22:53 |
| stryngs | I know people harp on scratchbox and all | 22:54 |
| stryngs | i was missing dpkg-buildflags, so i needed to update =) | 22:54 |
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| merlin1991 | stryngs: there should be a newer debhelper version in extras | 23:08 |
| merlin1991 | maemo.org/packages/view/debhelper7/ | 23:08 |
| merlin1991 | dunno if that is enough to include what you want | 23:08 |
| stryngs | looking for 8 =/ | 23:22 |
| stryngs | i'm playing the dependency hell game | 23:22 |
| stryngs | but im almost htere! | 23:22 |
| stryngs | and when done I'm gunna repo it up for the community ! | 23:22 |
| stryngs | Pretty exciting =) | 23:22 |
| stryngs | Would upgrading perl be bad for the n900 | 23:23 |
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| Maxdamantus | Mm, so now LMD is 1175 mAh, down from 1177. I guess that means it's found about the right value. | 23:30 |
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| stryngs | zomg, my head is gunna pop | 23:41 |
| stryngs | i just want to say, I HATE scratchbox | 23:41 |
| merlin1991 | nah scratchbox is fine | 23:43 |
| merlin1991 | when you know the quirks ;9 | 23:43 |
| merlin1991 | btw please make your new debhelper package in a way that it can coexist with the original one, because if not we are in build hell ... | 23:43 |
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