| DocScrutinizer05 | but as mentioned at several places, Neo900 group is strictly about hardware. It's the community - particularly FPTF - rthat takes care about porting (and maybe improving) maemo | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Tekk_ | yeah | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jolla is fine when it's "free enough for you" | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they again do that "we provide it for you" nonsense. And they even CANNOT provide all it needs to at least reflash the device | 00:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | not my way | 00:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so much not my way that I even didn't bother yet to "root" my jolla device | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. I can only tell you about its idiosyncrasies from hearsay. One of those hearsays is: it has 25 partitions of which only 5 are documented and FOSS | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and thus flashable | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nuke any of the other 20 and you're doomed | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly this sounds almost worse than N9 | 00:05 |
| nox- | :( | 00:06 |
| bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: you actually have a jolla ? | 00:06 |
| bencoh | waitwaitwait o.O | 00:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you say "as long as I may code my QML apps, I don't care what the system does" - then it's for sure a fine device for you | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: yep, I do. As well as I got a N950, a N9, even a few winphones from ~6 years ago | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I never get around to sell any of them, since selling is too much hassle | 00:08 |
| bencoh | n950 I can understand why ;) | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually for N950 I can't understand at all why I ignored/rejected those ~2k bucks a sale could have earned me | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I also can't understand why I not already disassembled it to the bones | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, why I not disassembled N9 | 00:10 |
| bencoh | because it is still a pretty nice thing after all ? :) | 00:10 |
| bencoh | oh, n9, yeah | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | N950 disassmbly is no gain on any level, since it's a poorly tested hw and I can't learn much from it | 00:11 |
| bencoh | dont we have specs anyway ? | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then OTOH for N9 I have schematics, so... | 00:11 |
| Tekk_ | oh yeah, with qml writing a new launcher probably wouldn't be much of a pain at all | 00:17 |
| Tekk_ | relative to doing it in hildon at least | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see any problem in "writing it in hildon" either | 00:23 |
| Tekk_ | not that it's problem, just that qml makes things a bit easier than writing it in C I imagine | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually, I might be mistaken but I thought there actually already *are* alternative launchers | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for fremantle | 00:24 |
| Tekk_ | nice | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (qml vs C) that depends a lot on what you wanna do. dirt simple things are most simple in QML. Complex things are most complex and probably impossible in QML | 00:25 |
| Tekk_ | ah | 00:26 |
| Tekk_ | I've actually not had the chance to play with either yet. I only got the sdk set up recently :/ | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I tend to thin of QML coding like writing a webpage | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | think* | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure it's simple, as long as you don't need real good stuff | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you wouldn't code doom or whatever first person shooter in HTML, eh? | 00:27 |
| Tekk_ | mhm | 00:27 |
| Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: that would be a good example if people weren't doing exactly that these days :/ | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, a pity | 00:28 |
| Tekk_ | you probably have to move to Rage | 00:28 |
| Tekk_ | since mozilla got unreal engine 3 working in js | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too many webcoders, too few real programmers | 00:28 |
| Tekk_ | hey, there can be hybrids at the fun intersections :P | 00:28 |
| * Tekk_ once wrote a web thing in assembly because a friend said that you couldn't | 00:28 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 00:29 |
| bencoh | :] | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you can't do it in FORTRAN, do it in ASSEMBLER. When you ca't do it in assembler, it#s not worth getting done at all | 00:29 |
| Tekk_ | actually I have to say that assembly on linux is not bad at all | 00:30 |
| Tekk_ | it was more or less just C with more boilerplate | 00:30 |
| Tekk_ | and most of that boilerplate was because I was avoiding linking against libc :P | 00:31 |
| bencoh | int0x80 all the way | 00:31 |
| Tekk_ | yep | 00:31 |
| Tekk_ | writing all the string manipulation stuff from scratch was definitely fun | 00:31 |
| bencoh | wouldn't call that 'fun' but yeah :) | 00:32 |
| bencoh | (its fun for the first time) | 00:32 |
| Tekk_ | oh yeah, I'm sure it gets boring after your 5th time | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you're writing such stuff 5 times, you should get punished by doing windows administration for at least 1 year | 00:34 |
| bencoh | noo~ | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | without mouse, only keyboard | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even in assembler you can write modular and even OO code | 00:35 |
| bencoh | ahem | 00:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, the tools are not that great for doing so | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but macro assemblers been invented before anybody knew what's fortran | 00:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | modern risk architecture makes it a tad more cumbersome to re-use code | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but basically it still works all the same | 00:38 |
| Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: I don't remember who | 00:41 |
| Tekk_ | but someone used to sell an "object-oriented" macro assembler | 00:41 |
| Tekk_ | borland maybe? | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds about real | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | borland would be the first candidate for that | 00:41 |
| Tekk_ | https://monate.codeplex.com/ that's one | 00:41 |
| * Tekk_ can't seem to find the particular one he was looking for | 00:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and after all c itself is a glorified assembler language ;-) | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | writing c you almost can feel what the opcodes will be that will get generated by the compiler | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and some idiotic property of c is based on exactly this original principle of simply creating a opcode macro for ever c syntactical element | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | think "case", think "for" loops | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | think pointer arithmetic and arrays | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | strings | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | boolean errr | 00:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I wait for the moment when machine code is more advanced and abstract than c sourcecode. Then it gets really funny | 00:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | "sorry, c programs are really unbearably slow on this new architecture. The CPU executes native python code" | 00:53 |
| Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: it's already sort of like that | 00:53 |
| Tekk_ | mmx and stuff provide native vector things, for example | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 00:53 |
| bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: :D | 00:53 |
| Tekk_ | plus your python cpu already sort of exists in the jazelle arm extension :) | 00:53 |
| Tekk_ | except that's java bytecode, not python | 00:53 |
| bencoh | it's almost the case for embedded jvm | 00:54 |
| * Tekk_ wonders why people haven't come out with that for dalvik yet | 00:54 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe because jazelle is broken crap? | 00:54 |
| bencoh | they dont ? | 00:54 |
| bencoh | I actually thought they did | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess jazellle is like DMA in 486, the CPU does it faster natively than the DMA(/jazelle) controller can do it | 00:56 |
| bencoh | maybe | 00:57 |
| Tekk_ | :/ | 00:58 |
| Tekk_ | all of the nokia docs for qt4 on maemo are dead | 00:58 |
| RST38h | Which jazelle? | 00:59 |
| bencoh | arm jazelle jvm | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: ouch | 00:59 |
| RST38h | There are multiple jazelles | 00:59 |
| RST38h | The original one, which was deprecated | 00:59 |
| Tekk_ | actually | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: wondered when it will happen | 00:59 |
| Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: worse | 00:59 |
| RST38h | And the new one which is not exactly java cpu,afaik | 01:00 |
| Tekk_ | qt.nokia.com and trolltech.com are entirely gone | 01:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 01:00 |
| bencoh | RST38h: the "new" one as ThumbEE ? | 01:00 |
| RST38h | Also, it might be worth pondering on why you need a special "CPU" to run your designer language of choice, rather than switch to a real compiled language like C or C++ | 01:01 |
| RST38h | bencoh: correct | 01:01 |
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| bencoh | hmm, does maemo sdk works on wheezy (I don't care about the graphical part) ? | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: (compiled lang) that's what we came from, evetually the CPU intruction set will be more complex and abstract than C sourcecode | 01:02 |
| RST38h | Doc: Sorry, not getting your comparison. | 01:02 |
| bencoh | (wiki mentions squeeze) | 01:03 |
| RST38h | Doc: CPU ISA and C syntax are two completely different entities | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | didn't know I did compare something | 01:03 |
| RST38h | Doc: You can't call one more complex than the other because they essentially mean different things | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except for jazelle, right? | 01:04 |
| RST38h | Doc: Are you comparing them based on the number of keywords? Or the number of builtin functions? Or something else? | 01:04 |
| RST38h | Doc: No | 01:04 |
| RST38h | Doc: Jazelle is just that - a semi-hardware JVM | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 01:04 |
| RST38h | Doc: But JVM byte code is not the same thing as Java | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dozble-meh | 01:05 |
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| RST38h | Doc: It is a rather arbitrarily chosen stack-based ISA | 01:05 |
| RST38h | Doc: Which cannot be efficiently implemented in hw because whoever has chosen it did not target hw | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I'm neither interested in an argument nor a lesson | 01:05 |
| RST38h | Doc: Well, it is a rather good example of how NOT to design an ISA :) | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? | 01:06 |
| RST38h | Doc: + you can endlessly troll remaining Java adepts with it =) | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you wanna argue with me, tell me what's so great about QML | 01:11 |
| RST38h | Ahhahahaha | 01:11 |
| bencoh | :) | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and how it makes sense to support only QML for developing apps | 01:11 |
| RST38h | Doc: My favorite topic as well =) | 01:11 |
| RST38h | Doc: Usually makes them sheepishly say that "yes, it takes way more code to do it in QML, but I get feature X not available with QWidgets" | 01:12 |
| RST38h | Doc: Based on how messed up the QML stuff is and how adamantly the top trolls insist on using it, it must have been invented by some lonely top cheese at Trolltech, who later made it a company policy | 01:14 |
| Tekk_ | the idea of a declarative ui isn't a bad one | 01:14 |
| Tekk_ | I can't speak to the implementation yet though | 01:14 |
| RST38h | The idea is years old | 01:14 |
| Tekk_ | but it is kinda nice in gtk to be able to just use glade and fill in the hooks | 01:15 |
| RST38h | Freaking MOTIF had declarative UI | 01:15 |
| Tekk_ | yeah, the idea is ancient | 01:15 |
| RST38h | Gtk is another can of worms | 01:15 |
| * RST38h liked how gnomes invented their own object-oriented language, which looked exactly like C++ or C#, but avoided any references to C++/C# in their web pages and documentation | 01:16 | |
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| merlin1991 | bencoh: I run the sdk on wheezy | 01:20 |
| bencoh | did you need any change to the wiki howto ? | 01:21 |
| bencoh | (except s/etch/wheezy/ instead of squeeze) | 01:21 |
| Tekk_ | hm, weird | 01:27 |
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| Tekk_ | I'm getting "Script is not a type" for the qml example | 01:27 |
| Tekk_ | did they seriously throw every non-layout widget into a single "Rectangle" type....? | 01:34 |
| * Tekk_ is starting to see why qml is problematic | 01:34 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [2014-04-16 Wed 03:32:56] <DocScrutinizer05> natsukao: you've been warned twice to stop | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2014-04-16 Wed 03:33:20] <natsukao> I° Amendament of American Constitution defends Freedom Of Speech | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2014-04-16 Wed 03:33:31] *** You set a ban on natsukao!*@*. | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://xkcd.com/1357/ | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 03:25 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if xkcd listening in this channel ;-) | 03:25 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | more likely, natsukao proceeded to an arbitrary number of other channels doing same stunt | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys speech | 03:28 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'speech' by key (5): freespeech ;; text to speech. sa1110/206mhz ;; goblin speech ;; speechd ;; speech for java. | 03:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~free speech is http://xkcd.com/1357/ | 03:28 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 | 03:28 |
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| Maxdamantus | Though I imagine they can arrest you for what you say, in some cases. | 05:12 |
| Maxdamantus | eg, if you phone 911 and report something that didn't happen, if significant resources are wasted on it. | 05:13 |
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| * Maxdamantus wonders if the US has defamation laws. | 05:19 | |
| Tekk_ | Maxdamantus: yes | 05:29 |
| Tekk_ | but they're much weaker than the UK's | 05:29 |
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| frals | DocScrutinizer05: libisi supported multiple active contexts (given that the operator supported it) | 09:57 |
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| brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: I have mostly switched from Maemo 5 on (the) ARM on my Nokia N900 to the Android OS 4.2.x on x86 on my new Geeksphone Revolution. | 11:50 |
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| brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: I say mostly because I am still using Fuelpad on Maemo 5 until I have a replacement or equivalent to use on my Revolution. | 11:53 |
| brolin_empey | I kind of wish I had switched from a paper log book to a spreadsheet on my handheld computer instead of switching from paper to Fuelpad because a spreadsheet is useful on any platform as long as I have a suitable spreadsheet application. | 11:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | WTF?! http://privatepaste.com/e59d6de3de | 13:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | even more WTF: http://privatepaste.com/76cdaa2146 | 13:23 |
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| freemangordon | corrupted fs? | 13:26 |
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| Maxdamantus | Mm.. maybe look in lost+found if using ext | 13:27 |
| Maxdamantus | I think it puts files in uncertain states there. | 13:28 |
| Maxdamantus | dunno | 13:28 |
| * Maxdamantus has never used it. | 13:28 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: Maxdamantus: I rather thing I got a binary that's non-stock and somehow vanished, while leaving the init.d script as zombie | 13:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err events.d | 13:56 |
| freemangordon | could be, if you uninstalled something | 13:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I just wonder what ussdd might be, besides the obvious name relation to ussd | 13:57 |
| freemangordon | though I doubt dpkg will leave files | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could you check if you got any (or even all) of those files on your system? | 13:58 |
| freemangordon | I don't have such file here | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that been fast | 13:58 |
| freemangordon | http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/u/ussd-common/ ? | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | before starhash, there been some USSD tools/apps around | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: alas nope, has only /usr/bin/ussdquery.py | 14:01 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I bet on that http://maemo.org/packages/view/ussd4all/ one | 14:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, that's it | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I wouldn't be too surprised if it had a broken p*rm script | 14:03 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: do you remember how to test ppoll/pselect? | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hardly | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | childspin? | 14:04 |
| freemangordon | I mean - you wrote some script | 14:04 |
| freemangordon | oh, wait, it wanted renice | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is borked in messybox | 14:04 |
| merlin1991 | renice childspin and then make the desktop rotate | 14:05 |
| merlin1991 | --> quite fast lockup on non fixed device | 14:05 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: thanks | 14:05 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: only one childspin process? | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, I created another really cpu hogging task in a 2nd shell | 14:05 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and for that yoi need nice -10 | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whic, also iirc, doesn't work in messybox, thanks to... messybox | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme see what I got in my */bin/ dirs | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 6826 2012-08-04 19:45 childspin | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the rest been manually done | 14:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | essential: use bash | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plus proper tools, for e.g. working nice | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# which nice | 14:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/bin/gnu/nice | 14:09 |
| freemangordon | dammit, it hangs :( | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ # which nice | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/bin/nice | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ messybox | 14:10 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: ok, seems I didn't build it properly :( | 14:11 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: I guess I forgot to export kernel headers dir | 14:12 |
| freemangordon | or something | 14:12 |
| merlin1991 | check the readme scratchbox | 14:12 |
| freemangordon | is this really needed for gcc4.7.2? | 14:13 |
| merlin1991 | you built it no idea what paths and default internal spec files your toolchain uses | 14:13 |
| merlin1991 | but essentially check the include path gcc / g++ uses | 14:13 |
| freemangordon | -> #maemo-ssu | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I dafaq am not able to lower niceness of my other shell | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no dice with /usr/bin/gnu/nice --10 bash | 14:19 |
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| brolin_empey | Why bother with cross-compilation when you can simply use an x86 SoC instead of a SoC using the ARM or some other non-x86 ISA? | 14:25 |
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| M4rtinK | a new modRana is out: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1422034&postcount=1575 | 14:35 |
| M4rtinK | enjoy! :) | 14:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, update for mc (midnight commander) to 1.4.8?? not possible. Problem: libslang-dunnowhat missing | 18:24 |
| Apic | D'ouh | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | damn! http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/libslang2/2.0.6-4osso1+r1/ is in testing only! | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Graham Inggs should take care to pronote that lib to maemo-extras when mc depends on it | 18:31 |
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| brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: I use a Command Line Interface every day but I rarely use mc because I rarely need mc. | 19:08 |
| brolin_empey | Incidentally: Is a succubus in Electrical Engineering literally an open collector? ;-) | 19:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | brolin_empey: ok, you rarely use mc. What is the conclusion I take from that? | 19:12 |
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| brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: I wonder why you want mc because I do not seem to need mc. | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who says I want mc? | 19:14 |
| Apic | I do not _need_ mc either, but like it and use it sometimes nevertheless. | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (irrelevant, but actually I like mc as well) | 19:16 |
| brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: I thought you discovered the dependency problem with mc because you wanted to install mc so you could use mc. I guess you were only managing/maintaining the Maemo package repositories? | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is this relevant? | 19:17 |
| brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: I was trying to answer your question of “who says I want mc?”. | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, this was a rethorical question, which I can answer myself for you: *I* didn't say I want mc. I stated that there's a problem in extras-devel | 19:20 |
| Apic | EOD | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errrmaemo-extras | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a package thta got promoted to maemo-extras is depending on stuff that's only available in maemo-extras-testing | 19:22 |
| Apic | Thanks for pointing out that Repo | 19:22 |
| Apic | I'll add it B-) | 19:22 |
| Apic | And deploy mc B-) | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HAM will notice that and show a problem when somebody wants to install or update mc | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Apic: eh? | 19:23 |
| Apic | Uh | 19:24 |
| Apic | I'm confused | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you want to take maintainership of mc and/or libslang, go ahead use the "request maintainership" button on the respective packages interface pages | 19:24 |
| Apic | There's only /extras/ in there, not even /extras-devel/ | 19:24 |
| Apic | I think i keep from modifying anything… | 19:25 |
| Apic | Never touch a running System %-) | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | better that. Adding extras-devel and then doing an "update all" has potential to nuke your system | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's *devel* for a reason | 19:26 |
| Tekk_ | oh, speaking of updates | 19:26 |
| Tekk_ | I'm not actually able to update cutetube | 19:26 |
| Tekk_ | ube-qml that is | 19:26 |
| Tekk_ | it's been in my updates list for months, but whenever I update it downloads, tries to install, then says it fails | 19:26 |
| brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: I do not know about you but, maybe even on a weekly basis if not more frequently, a remark I make that is intended only as a neutral observation is interpreted by someone else as a judgement. | 19:26 |
| Apic | Okay | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, a commonly occuring "problem" | 19:27 |
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| brolin_empey | Honestly, my user experience with Maemo 5 on my Nokia N900 in Canada is too poor to want to continue using a Nokia N900. To be fair, some of my poor user experience is caused by hardware limitations, not software. | 19:32 |
| freemangordon | brolin_empey: could you elaborate, I am curious | 19:33 |
| freemangordon | what exactly HW is n900 missing | 19:33 |
| Tekk_ | freemangordon: he may be on rogers | 19:34 |
| Tekk_ | on rogers in canada and at&t in the US(my carries) 3g doesn't work | 19:34 |
| Tekk_ | my carrier* | 19:34 |
| freemangordon | aah | 19:34 |
| Tekk_ | hardware support for mp4 would be pretty nice too | 19:35 |
| freemangordon | what? | 19:35 |
| freemangordon | mp4 as in? | 19:35 |
| Tekk_ | as it stands watching any video made since the n900 was launched absolutely kills the battery | 19:35 |
| freemangordon | Tekk_: what do you use to watch it? | 19:35 |
| Tekk_ | mplayer. mediaplayer just plain refuses to use mp4 for me | 19:36 |
| freemangordon | mplayer or media player? | 19:36 |
| freemangordon | well, mplayer does not use DSP | 19:36 |
| Apic | mpv > MPlayer | 19:36 |
| Tekk_ | Apic: mpv is on the n900 now? :) | 19:37 |
| Apic | No Idea ;-) | 19:37 |
| brolin_empey | freemangordon: 256 MiB of physical RAM is far too little. Even a 400-MHz Pentium II tower computer I prepared for my employer has 512 MiB of physical RAM. | 19:37 |
| Apic | Should be in the ARM Debian Repo | 19:37 |
| Apic | Though probably not optimized | 19:37 |
| Tekk_ | brolin_empey: do you even get 256 of physical? | 19:37 |
| Tekk_ | oh right | 19:37 |
| Tekk_ | that was my last phone that had 128 | 19:37 |
| Sicelo | there we go again.. someone installing debian stuff on mameo :p | 19:37 |
| freemangordon | wait, wait, most mp4/mpv videos I throw on my device are perfectly playable via media player | 19:37 |
| Tekk_ | freemangordon: weird | 19:38 |
| freemangordon | Tekk_: did you install harmattan codecs? | 19:38 |
| freemangordon | DSP codecs that is | 19:38 |
| Tekk_ | I installed every gstreamer-dsp if that's what you mean | 19:38 |
| * Tekk_ double checks | 19:38 | |
| freemangordon | I mean http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=77695 | 19:38 |
| freemangordon | Tekk_: ^^^ | 19:39 |
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| M4rtinK | isn't mp4 actualyl a container ? | 19:39 |
| freemangordon | yep ;) | 19:39 |
| M4rtinK | *actually | 19:39 |
| M4rtinK | thare might be a lot of different stuff in it | 19:39 |
| Tekk_ | M4rtinK: yes, but pretty much all of the time when you say mp4 you can be sure of an h264/mp3 setup | 19:39 |
| Tekk_ | or h264/aac | 19:40 |
| M4rtinK | even just counting the MPEG profiles | 19:40 |
| M4rtinK | well, mostly yes | 19:40 |
| Tekk_ | mostly? | 19:40 |
| M4rtinK | for movies, etc. | 19:40 |
| freemangordon | yep, vc1 | 19:40 |
| Tekk_ | I can't think of anyone who does differently except for MAYBE ms | 19:40 |
| M4rtinK | but "mp4" you get from cameras for example | 19:40 |
| Tekk_ | freemangordon: thanks for the link btw, I'll try that | 19:40 |
| M4rtinK | can be quite weird from my experience | 19:40 |
| freemangordon | brolin_empey: sure, 256 is far too little, but if you don't run openoffice and gimp simultaneously it is pretty much ok | 19:41 |
| freemangordon | assuming you move the swap to uSD | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | and tweaked swappiuness/io scheduler | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | swapiness even | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | brolin_empey: keep in mind I am on cssu-thumb, so your experience might be a bit different if you are on stock | 19:43 |
| freemangordon | Tekk_: could you paste a link to one of those non-working videos so I can try it | 19:44 |
| brolin_empey | I like how Maemo 5 can use tracker/module files in the same way as stream formats. However, that ability has become irrelevant since I switched to always using a silent profile because I do not want to be a cell out. Yes, I mean cell, not sell. | 19:44 |
| Tekk_ | brolin_empey: the n900 is almost powerful enough to use as an everyday computer assuming you have kernel power + overclocking | 19:44 |
| Tekk_ | and a bluetooth keyboard/mouse | 19:44 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 19:44 |
| Tekk_ | freemangordon: it's primarily just stuff downloaded with cutetube using mp4 | 19:44 |
| freemangordon | Tekk_: afaik those are hight profile, stock codecs does not support it | 19:45 |
| brolin_empey | freemangordon: I am using the CSSU (stable, IIRC) but I do not know if it is using Thumb. In any case, though, I want x86, not the ARM, which is a large part of my reason for switching from my Nokia N900 to a Geeksphone Revolution. | 19:49 |
| freemangordon | brolin_empey: you're not (using thumb) | 19:50 |
| brolin_empey | Tekk_: I use Fido Mobile, which means I am in the same situation as if I used Rogers Wireless in terms of inability to use “3G” (HSPA). | 19:54 |
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| brolin_empey | Tekk_: The Nokia N900 cannot be used with the cellular networks of both Telus Mobility, Bell Mobility, and all of their MVNOs because the Nokia N900 does not support the UMTS bands used by both Telus Mobility and Bell Mobility, two of the largest mobile telcos in Canada. | 19:59 |
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| brolin_empey | Tekk_: Rogers owns the only GSM network in Canada. Both Telus Mobility and Bell Mobility have skipped GSM by moving from CDMA-2000 to UMTS. | 20:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ((almost powerful enough to use as an everyday computer...)) no OC needed for that. OC makes little real difference in UX, except for time critical applications that either work or break, depending on performance >x or <x | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like e.g. audio/video playback | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for 720p I heard you mandatory need OC, or it will not keep up with the standard framerate | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but then, who needs 720p on a device with a 800*480 display and a PAL/NTSC composite video output? | 20:15 |
| Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: I find that it's very useful when you're doing heavy multitasking | 20:15 |
| Tekk_ | tweaking swappiness helps a lot there too | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't feel like starting my usual rant about OC now. Sorry for those who already fetched their popcorn | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway improving IO and swap parameters does magintudes more for percieved performance of N900 than a 20% or somesuch of CPU OC | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even 50% are hardlly noticeable | 20:17 |
| Tekk_ | it's not a life changing improvement, but every bit helps | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | increasing CPU clock by 100% doesn't mean your system will be 100% faster, thanks to performance being a mix of IO, CPU, RAM, DSP, other stuff, the total boost is maybe only 30% for a CPU OC of 100% | 20:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | then otoh OC by 50% will reduce lifespan of your CPU til complete irrecoverable failure by a factor 10 or more | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | e.g from 100k h to <<10k h | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~omap-oc | 20:21 |
| infobot | from memory, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 | 20:21 |
| Tekk_ | DocScrutinizeryour 10% per week is definitely problematic, but 100k to 10k could be about right | 20:23 |
| * Tekk_ is only at ~4 kh | 20:24 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: and that's only for times when CPU running at OC clock *really*, noot for the idle periods when clock got stopped | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/noot/not/ | 20:27 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: Tekk_: and that's only for times when CPU running at OC clock *really*, not for the idle periods when clock got stopped | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, TI says "OMAP lives 100k hours on up to 500MHz clock, and 15k h when operating at 600MHz" - up to you to guess how long it might work while clocked at 900MHz | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when it's "linear", the for every 100MHz plus, the lifespan will be 1/8 or sth like that. Odds are it's exponential | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | i.e: for 700MHz | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~15000/8 | 20:31 |
| infobot | 1875 | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for 800MHz: | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~1875/8 | 20:32 |
| infobot | 234.375 | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for 900MHz: | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~235/8 | 20:32 |
| infobot | 29.375 | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *cough* | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and odds are at 1000MHz the SoC burns out after 3..4h of heavy number crunching | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no matter if done in one session of 4h, or in chunks of 16 * 15minutes | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually TI predicts that a 5% of devices are dead after that timespan of torture | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it's been 23k h, not 15k h | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so, assuming this isn't 1/8 bit only 1/4, the formula goes like this | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~23000/4/4/4/4 | 20:39 |
| infobot | 89.84375 | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for 1000MHz | 20:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | >>100K total PowerOnHours when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5 (overdrive = 600MHz) to less than 23K POH. --- for commercial grade device (up to 95°C)<< | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>50K total POH when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5 to less than 10K POH. Total FaultsInThousand(?) Rate increases from design goal of 50FIT to 70FIT under these accelerated conditions. (for MIL(?) 105°C max devices)<< | 20:41 |
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| bencoh | I guess we don't have the hotplug governor in current maemo kernel ? | 20:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hotplug governor? | 20:48 |
| bencoh | nevermind, android stuff that has never been ported back | 20:50 |
| bencoh | (to mainline) | 20:50 |
| hxka | > The key difference in the “hotplug” governor is that it will disable auxillary CPUs when the system is very idle, and enable them again once the system becomes busy. This is achieved by averaging load over multiple sampling periods; if CPUs were online or offlined based on a single sampling period then thrashing will occur. | 20:50 |
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| hxka | N900 has only one CPU | 20:50 |
| hxka | I would be useless even being ported | 20:50 |
| bencoh | actually I was more interested in the down_threshold thing | 20:51 |
| bencoh | (which ondemand doesn't have) | 20:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1422103#post1422103 | 22:35 |
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| Tekk_ | freemangordon: still getting media format not supported on yt vids :/ | 22:36 |
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| Tekk_ | oh, hold on | 22:37 |
| Tekk_ | apparently I never confirmed the removal of openmax | 22:37 |
| Tekk_ | yep, that was the problem | 22:40 |
| okias | what you saying to Ara model? | 22:42 |
| okias | just listening google http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6BHJspyh6s | 22:42 |
| okias | presentation, it could be used to complete "neo900" | 22:42 |
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| Ashley` | is that constantly running browserd really needed? | 23:55 |
| Ashley` | also, what is tracker? | 23:55 |
| Ashley` | *trackerd | 23:55 |
| Ashley` | also, hi :P | 23:55 |
| Ashley` | i dont even use microb. | 23:56 |
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