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| ds_shadof | i'v setup SIP account in my n900, i can make a call i can receive them, but i cant hear the other side. Other side hears me | 07:28 |
|---|---|---|
| ds_shadof | and hears me very good | 07:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ds_shadof: inbound RTP gets blocked. You're probably behind a NAT | 11:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ds_shadof: check your SIP provider's howto for STUN. Usually providers have service like "stun.provider.net:10000", configure your SIP account on N900 accordingly under SIP->extended-config->STUN-detection, disable "automatic" and enter the STUN server's URL incl port | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it seems port 3478 is very common | 11:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when your router has a firewall, you have a problem | 11:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~stun | 11:17 |
| infobot | stun is, like, that feeling you get when you realise your SIP call actually got through!. Simple Traversal of UDP over NATs, or a client side method to cater to crappy sip servers, or a phaser setting | 11:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~rfc stun | 11:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~rfc3489 | 11:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~rfc 3489 | 11:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3489.txt http://tools.ietf.org/search/rfc5389 http://tools.ietf.org/search/rfc5780 | 11:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://tools.ietf.org/search/draft-ietf-behave-nat-udp-01 | 11:28 |
| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: is stun simply knocking at each other with udp until the NAT opens up? | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, STUN talks to *the SIP registrar/server* | 11:31 |
| jon_y | hmm ok | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so the client can lean about type of NAT it has to handle, as well as public ports | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and public IP | 11:31 |
| jon_y | does the STUN server still get involved once initial handshake is done? | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | brute force nasty abuse of STUN: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/getownip | 11:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 11:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | STUN is strictly for session initiation, resp even to get the right parameters for that | 11:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alternatively nowadays you *could* use uPnP | 11:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to tightly remote-control the NAT | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | locally | 11:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | bur uPnP is somewhat deprecated since very buggy resp security critical | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | get a NAT/router that BEHAVEs (http://tools.ietf.org/search/draft-ietf-behave-nat-udp-01) and STUN will make your SIP VoIP work just great | 11:37 |
| jon_y | ok | 11:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | alas there are still many NATs out there that restrict inbound traffic to a port to the IP the outbound traffic been addressed to | 11:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so colled full-cone NAT | 11:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | called* | 11:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while a full-cone NAT on one end of a SIP session can still get handled, there is basically no way to establish a SIP session when both ends use a full-cone NAT | 11:40 |
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| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: so, in full cone, you have to wait until the edge device forgets about the transaction? | 11:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't help | 11:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you send a UDP package to far end. your NAT picks a random source port for that. Far end also uses full-cone NAT, so the destination port is closed | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since full-cone NAT uses a new random source port for a new destination IP, you can't find out about your own public port number using STUN server | 11:45 |
| jon_y | can you keep bombarding a specific port? | 11:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what STUN server tells you applies only for that particular connection | 11:46 |
| jon_y | eg both parties hitting each other at specific ports | 11:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while far end cannot send to same port STUN told you you're using | 11:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | rather: far end tries to send to that port, but your full-cone NAT rejects the packages since differnet IP that that of STUN server | 11:48 |
| jon_y | hmm | 11:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when one side using full-cone NAT, other side mustn't use any NAT at all, then it still works | 11:48 |
| jon_y | I read somewhere about a technique where both side will bombard each other with udp at a specific port at the same time | 11:49 |
| jon_y | to trick it into opening | 11:49 |
| jon_y | not sure what that is called | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's called UDP ;-) | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it works with NAT that are NOT full-cone | 11:49 |
| jon_y | hmm ok | 11:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | A sends STUN and receives answer: "you're using public IP 123.234.111.2 and port 10444". A now sends a SIP message to B saying "contact me via RTP on IP 123.234.111.2 and port 10444" | 11:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | B sends UDP packages and since A has a proper BEHAVing NAT, that NAT forwards to inbound traffic from B to port 10444 to your SIP client | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no so when it's a full-cone NAT | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also not when you got a firewall that turns your NAT into full-cone | 11:54 |
| jon_y | oh I see | 11:54 |
| jon_y | not-full cone will bind an external port to an internal ip? | 11:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, every NAT does that | 11:54 |
| jon_y | regardless of what the other party's ip is | 11:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but full-cone do that only for the particular IP:port tupel that your client previously sent a package to, to establish that NAT session | 11:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and other source IP or source port gest rejected by full-cone | 11:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any* | 11:56 |
| jon_y | ok, I think I did a usermode full cone NAT daemon once | 11:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also see http://tools.ietf.org/search/draft-ietf-behave-nat-udp-01#section-7 about SIP-ALG | 11:57 |
| jon_y | it was doing a map of ip/port to maximize the possible number of clients | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | many routers have SIP-ApplicationLayerGateway, but most of them are crap and don't work | 11:57 |
| jon_y | so bad idea in hindsight | 11:57 |
| jon_y | NAT is a bad idea to begin with :( | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, basicall yNAT is a bad idea | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://tools.ietf.org/search/draft-ietf-behave-nat-udp-01#section-5.1 you want a >>External filtering is endpoint independent:<< | 12:00 |
| jon_y | ok | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you often get a >>External filtering is endpoint address and port dependent:<< (aka full-cone) | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I shouldn't use the term "cone" since it's completely ambiguous and not clearly defined | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "symmetric NAT" is somewhat more specific but still deprecated | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but without STUN you'll probably run into problems even with decent nice NAT that behaves | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | default in N900 SIP config is "automatic STUN detection" which afaik relies on a special DNS entry for that SIP provider#s domain. When that DNS record is missing, STUN will fail | 12:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus: in N900 bother to set STUN server URL correctly | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise inbound RTP will not work, and the result is that you can#t hear far end while far end can hear you | 12:10 |
| jon_y | s/in/if/? | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/in/for/ | 12:10 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: otherwise forbound RTP will not work, and the result is that you can#t hear far end while far end can hear you | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang | 12:10 |
| jon_y | what kind of special DNS record? | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus: for N900 you better bother to set STUN server URL correctly | 12:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | _stun._udp.example.com. | 12:12 |
| jon_y | thats a weird entry | 12:12 |
| jon_y | I guess it won't collide | 12:12 |
| jaska | looks like a srv record | 12:12 |
| jon_y | oh right | 12:13 |
| jon_y | what kind of entry? | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what your N900 will search for when you enabled "automatic STUN detection" for provider example.com | 12:13 |
| jon_y | A? | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jaska: exactly | 12:13 |
| jon_y | hmm, not familiar with SRV entry | 12:13 |
| jon_y | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRV_record | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jr@saturn:~/.ssh> host -t srv _stun._udp.sipgate.de | 12:14 |
| jon_y | specific for SIP/XMPP | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _stun._udp.sipgate.de has SRV record 0 0 3478 stun.sipgate.net. | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when your SIP provider missed to create such srv DNS entry, your automatic STUN detection will fail | 12:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but your provider regularly will provide info about the real STUN server's URL and port, of the STUN server they provide | 12:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://secure.sipgate.de/faq/index.php?do=displayArticle&article=1225&id=302 | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough they tell you to use STUN-Port: 10000 | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while above DNS query tells you to use port 3478 | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually in RL both work | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | their STUN server isn't picky about the port# | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jr@saturn:~> host -t srv _sip._udp.sipgate.de | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _sip._udp.sipgate.de has SRV record 0 0 5060 sipgate.de. | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jr@saturn:~> host -t srv _sip._tcp.sipgate.de | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Host _sip._tcp.sipgate.de not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | means sipgate doesn't support SIP over TCP | 12:34 |
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| vi__ | freemangordon: yo. | 14:02 |
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| Sc0rpius | is there a way to know, via repositories logs, how many N900 are still alive, and if so, how many there are? | 19:57 |
| Sc0rpius | I guess less than 10.000 | 19:57 |
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| realitygaps | ive seen quite a few resuscitated recently | 20:16 |
| realitygaps | planning to bring mine back to life again soon | 20:17 |
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| silviof | yes - i have my resuscitated and have another one buy for development things. And as part for a neo900. | 20:18 |
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