| dos1 | does it have polarisation filter? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | not sure, but probably yes | 00:00 |
| obiwlan | dos1: i'm not sure | 00:00 |
| dos1 | i mean, that clone | 00:00 |
| dos1 | original one has for sure | 00:00 |
| obiwlan | i noticed a darker area on the "glass" with round corners | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | circular? | 00:01 |
| dos1 | looking through it at some screen while rotating it shows it clearly | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, THROUGH it shows it | 00:01 |
| dos1 | yep... could be done before replacing :) | 00:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | when it's mounted, it's hard to tell | 00:02 |
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| obiwlan | i think mine has a polarisation filter, but the different font on the bezel makes me doubt it's original | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you have doubts, then don't doubt! | 00:04 |
| obiwlan | anyway .. i bought some defective n900's from ebay now that the news of the neo900 plans reached me ;) | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you have no doubts it's original, then doubt it is ;-) | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good plan! | 00:05 |
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| mashina_ | if they become affordable sometime I might get one | 00:06 |
| obiwlan | i bought a nexus 4 and installed ubuntu touch the last week because i thought it might be a good n900 replacement. but i realized i can't live without the keyboard .. the n900 is such a great device. and the mechanics work just like on the first day. i love it | 00:07 |
| mashina_ | i'd like to try ubuntu touch but my N900 will be my forever phone (until a worthy sucessor appears) | 00:08 |
| obiwlan | mashina_: amen | 00:08 |
| mashina_ | i might get a nexus 4 hand me down sometime though - maybe I'll try | 00:09 |
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| obiwlan | mashina_: if you want to install ubuntu touch on it i'd recommend to wait until at least 14.04 | 00:12 |
| Agge | Question what I did was basicaly this but without removing the battery. what do removing the battery change? Image:Ambox_notice.png | 00:15 |
| Agge | When flashing the eMMC content, the safe way is flash the eMMC/VANILLA image first, then remove battery for a moment, and then flash the FIASCO/Rootfs image. | 00:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it shuts down the device | 00:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | there is no other way unless you gave -R parameter which will cause the device to reboot and thus run into trouble since it will miss /opt | 00:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | which is what you've witnessed | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (pink rectangles) | 00:46 |
| Agge | I compleatly missed that it needed to be rebooted between the flashings :( | 00:46 |
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| Agge | sorry if I was rude about it | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it mustn't get rebooted | 00:48 |
| Agge | shut down then restarted in usb mode | 00:49 |
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| Agge | one rev2 page https://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/rev2 more or less complected | 00:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and you think anybody is going to review that and find the mistakes it has? | 00:50 |
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| Agge | or 4 pages I made the install flasher, flasher errors and troubleshooting pages separate | 00:50 |
| Agge | you do what you want with it now it exist | 00:50 |
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| Agge | (I did minimum changes on the instruktions) | 00:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | any change on instructions is an error | 00:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the instructions are perfectly tested and work the way they are given on flashing page | 00:52 |
| Agge | the only changes I did was whiting out the command instead of doing a reference | 00:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm, did you also unroll the loop? | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the instruction/cmd is different for loop#2 than it is for loop#1 and loop#3 | 00:55 |
| Agge | I am not saying that the present page is wrong only hard to get a overwhue of. that is what I tried to fix | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I didn't write the command litareally when I wrote that foolproof procedure | 00:56 |
| Agge | the "Updating_the_firmware#Updating_.26_Flashing_your_device" link? it just point at the "Updating & Flashing your device" part on my browser so it is a lite har to know what comand it is refereing to | 00:59 |
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| Agge | and aperently chrome think that wiki.maemo.org use unsafe scripts | 01:00 |
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| Agge | found an error in the regular page "Flashing only the kernel from a FIASCO image (expert topic!)" -> "USING WINDOWS" need a <pre> and a </pre> | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, I'm talking about >>the only changes I did was whiting out the command instead of doing a reference<< | 01:02 |
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| Agge | DocScrutinizer05, sorry what do you mean with the loop's? | 01:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | i'm not - I repeat NOT - going to review and debug the new page | 01:09 |
| Agge | ok like I said you can do what you want with it. I am adding a work in progress disclamer so that no one use it | 01:10 |
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| Agge | I am just wondering what you mean by "unrolling the loop" | 01:15 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | o.O ver2 flashing. what was wrong with original? | 01:38 |
| Agge | I just found it hard to get a good overview of it so I decided to make a version that would be easer to find stuff on | 01:39 |
| Agge | might also move the different os instructions to different pages or just make one windows page and one Linux/MAC(Unix) page | 01:40 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | ok but now this is confusing that there are many flashing pages. also there not all sub-sections of each other and are root to original flashing not ver2 or whatever | 01:41 |
| Agge | all the new are rooted to rev2 | 01:42 |
| Agge | and you shouldent be able to find a link to them unless you are on rev2 allredy | 01:42 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | they are nested to original also I see typos. Like "Trubleshooting". mhmm. | 01:45 |
| Agge | yeah My spelling is often bad | 01:46 |
| sixwheeledbeast | wiki's have content boxes if author uses wiki headings correctly. this makes stuff easy to find and link to IMO. | 01:48 |
| Agge | true but it is also a good idea to try to keep a page on topic as much as posibel to keep if from geting to long | 01:48 |
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| Agge | that is why I moved to install instructions to separate pages (you don't real nead them after the install is completed) | 01:49 |
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| Agge | sixwheeledbeast, nice scripts for newly flashed systems :) | 01:52 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I looked at reordering stuff there a while ago when "wiki gardening" I decided it was best not to for a number of reasons. It is the most visited page on the wiki next to CSSU. Any major re-structuring would cause havoc/confusion. It has evolved over the years to what it is now for a reason. | 01:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | scripts? | 01:53 |
| Agge | https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast/Scripts | 01:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | oh ~beasttweaks | 01:54 |
| sixwheeledbeast | also see ~jrtools | 01:54 |
| Agge | yeah I vill reflash it with a bigger home partition :) that instruction might actulay be usefull on the flashing page :) | 01:55 |
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| Agge | actualy the page could probibly be made even smaller by making the console flashing instructions OS independent | 01:57 |
| sixwheeledbeast | flashing is a "beginners" page and shouldn't have any modifications on. I suggest all personal modifications you wish to store go in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Agge/foo | 01:58 |
| sixwheeledbeast | like doc, wikiwide myself and many others have. | 01:59 |
| Agge | do meamo have a strange way of storing stuff? ie only 2gb home by defuld do it handle media somwhare else? | 02:00 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Agge: are you new to maemo? | 02:00 |
| Agge | half havent touched my N900 for about 2 years so I have forgoten most of the stuff about using it | 02:01 |
| Agge | or most of the more advanced stuff | 02:02 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~opt | 02:02 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, opt is available from http://nis-www.lanl.gov/~jt/Software | 02:02 |
| sixwheeledbeast | grrr | 02:02 |
| beford | MyDocs is the "big" partition, your music is supposed to be there | 02:03 |
| Agge | aha | 02:03 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~optification | 02:03 |
| infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" | 02:03 |
| Agge | sixwheeledbeast, nice domain but the adress don't work | 02:03 |
| mashina_ | why can't we live in a world where everyone's hapy with a single fat-ass / that doesn't arbitarily restrict you | 02:03 |
| mashina_ | people who like that shit can do it themselves | 02:04 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I have everything on my uSD and backed up. MyDocs gets little use. | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: please keep an eye on that wiki stuff and help it staying sane, please | 02:08 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Music, Documents etc all on uSD card, swap on uSD too. better to wear a removable flash card IMO. | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: I warned him about the confusion he will cause, and that nobody will be willing to verify all that supposedly better new stuff | 02:08 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: since I am a wikibod I am trying to do just that. | 02:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I agree with the confusion on ver2 also. | 02:09 |
| Agge | should I move it to http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Agge/foo instead? | 02:10 |
| sixwheeledbeast | replace "foo" with name of your liking, probably "Flashing" is best IMO. | 02:11 |
| Agge | I know | 02:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Agge/Flashing | 02:12 |
| Agge | I did just use the pagename Doc suggested but if that is better I will move it | 02:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | and then nest stuff on subdirectories lower. So the link at the top of the page is up one. | 02:13 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: do you agree ^^^ | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 02:14 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I think it's best IMO | 02:14 |
| Agge | right. vill fix that now | 02:14 |
| sixwheeledbeast | thanks. :) | 02:14 |
| Agge | np. I might have come across as rude but I am just trying to make it better for everyone | 02:15 |
| Agge | so they should be moved | 02:19 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | I understand it not rude your trying to help, but sometimes it's best to leave things alone that have been around for ages :P | 02:21 |
| Agge | I agree in allot of cases you shouldent change stuff that have worked for ages like pulseaudio and sytemd are doing. but somthime you need to check what the stuff still follow the orignal diractions and haven't been made hard to understand by allot of edits by different people. | 02:24 |
| Agge | and somthimes it is best to do a compleate rewrite but keeping the all funktions identical to the old version | 02:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, a dozen people thought exactly same during last ~3 years, studied the page thoroughly and after they understood all the info it has, they all decided to rather don't touch it | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-11-03 00:53:07] <sixwheeledbeast> I looked at reordering stuff there a while ago when "wiki gardening" I decided it was best not to for a number of reasons. It is the most visited page on the wiki next to CSSU. Any major re-structuring would cause havoc/confusion. It has evolved over the years to what it is now for a reason. | 02:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-11-02 22:33:52] <DocScrutinizer05> since... the page been reviewed by literally thousands of users and everybody had to admit there are no errors and no missing info in it | 02:31 |
| Agge | I feel that I understand it the info on the page now. But I still say it is a little confusing and not to beginner friendly | 02:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it actually is very beginner friendly, since all the changes that got applied were done after some beginner ran into some trouble | 02:33 |
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| Agge | P.S. DocScrutinizer05 could you move your annserv in the discusion on how to fix the purple rectangle to the troubleshooting section? | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll check and consider - eventually | 02:34 |
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| Agge | the page contains to much information in the and that is what I feel that is what the problem is in the end. that is why I put some stuff in separate pages | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all that info got added on request of beginners like you | 02:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | refer to [2013-11-03 01:33:22] <Agge> P.S. DocScrutinizer05 could you move your annserv in the discusion on how to fix the purple rectangle to the troubleshooting section? | 02:36 |
| Agge | yeah I see the irony in asking to add info and saying that it alredy is to much info | 02:37 |
| Agge | it is to much info that is repeated or close to repeated to get a good overview on how it is suposed to work | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next user will complain that there's incorrect info, since for him the rectangles are black | 02:38 |
| Agge | and the one after that might complain that he is collor blind and don't know what colore his rectangels are. so just whrite rectangels or "test this if the device boot strange" | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next user after that doesn't encounter rectangles at all, but gets stuck on some other point, due to same root cause | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | typical beginner's mistake: extrapolate from own single instance experience to the general case | 02:42 |
| Agge | meh I know. just that I found a pervius coment about the exact same error that I got in the discusion but noware on the main page. | 02:43 |
| Agge | you could always make it an forever growing "diffferent errors and solutions" pages :) | 02:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the error and solution is always the same: eMMC got flashed after first-boot optification started (no matter if that optification been 18months ago or immediately before eMMC flash and after rootfs flash due to accidental boot of device), and solution is to flash rootfs again. The SYMPTOMS however are manifold. | 03:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this problem got discribed in all verbosity on the flashing wikipage | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | described even | 03:41 |
| Agge | then add: For any boot errors try to reflash the rootfs to fix it. | 03:41 |
| Agge | the problem is described but not the solution | 03:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | >>If you cannot establish a connection with N900, or got any other problems during starting or completing the flashing process, do the following steps which describe the complete foolproof flashing procedure again in terse form<< | 03:44 |
| mashina_ | people are so scared by flashing they lose common sense | 03:44 |
| * mashina_ suffers from this condition | 03:44 | |
| mashina_ | lucky i managed to do it right | 03:45 |
| Agge | and that sentence is in no way clear on what you are talking about | 03:45 |
| Agge | "terse"? | 03:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ohwell, I can't help then. | 03:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >> | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | When flashing the eMMC content, the safe way is flash the eMMC/VANILLA image first, then remove battery for a moment, and then flash the FIASCO/Rootfs image. Do not boot up the device between the two i.e do NOT use the -R parameter at the end! | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Also see troubleshooting section, bullet 6:"If you cannot establish..." | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | << | 03:47 |
| Agge | and you might want to make "the complete foolproof flashing procedure" a real section insted in troubleshooting of hiding it among the rest among the rest of the stuff | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, if that's not clear enough then pretty please write your own better instructions and linger around here 24/7. I'll happily forward every user who got any problems with flashing to you | 03:48 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 is fed up with users criticizing to excuse their own refusal to follow the advice to READ THE WHOLE DAMN WIKIPAGE, FROM *START* TIL *END* | 03:50 | |
| Agge | "4. Start flasher with above mentioned command to flash". you are aware that about all of the comands in the whole page is above that line? | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you are aware that you're starting to bore me? | 03:51 |
| Agge | right now I am just responding on what you are writing. left the topic about 1h ago | 03:53 |
| Agge | anyway I would be more motivated to take the "READ THE WHOLE DAMN WIKIPAGE, FROM *START* TIL *END" if it dident include instrucktions on installing the programs to flash on two OS that I do not use | 03:53 |
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| Agge | and I vill update the rev2/troubleshooting tomorrow | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then pretty please go buy an android phone and go away! | 03:54 |
| Agge | good night. this have been a interesting discussion. | 03:54 |
| Agge | and I already own 2 androids :) | 03:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, what makes you think we're intersted in your *motivation* to follow advice you asked for? | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody here is selling N900 | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any nobody has Nokia shares I guess | 03:58 |
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| Agge | ? | 03:59 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 notices that after 17h of first level helpdesk he feels a strange urge to mistreat somebody | 03:59 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly when users explain they are not *motivated* to read the howto | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since it contains info that's not 100% applicable to their particular case | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | AAAAAARGGGHHHH!!!! >:-( | 04:02 |
| Agge | ok your are right. that sentence was written in the wrong way. sorry. | 04:03 |
| Agge | but would it make the information less acuret if it was split between different pages one for every OS? that could even make it so that less users had to ask for help | 04:05 |
| sono | dude. | 04:05 |
| Agge | and why not make the foolproof way the primary way when flashing both images from linux? | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BECAUSE | 04:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry | 04:07 |
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| sono | doc: relax we rely on you to build our new phones =D | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2 years ago I had kickbanned him 3h ago, I guess | 04:09 |
| sono | not worth it. | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why +q | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sono: if it was the Neo900 flashing page... | 04:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but it's the damn generic maemo flashing page, created 2008-05-27T06:00:35 | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and in use in the form it's now, since ~3 years, without major modifications | 04:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (New page: FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux 1. Before flashing 2. Flashing the Nokia 770 3. Flashing the Nokia N800 4. Flashing the Nokia N810 5. Troubleshooting Before flashing Bewar...) | 04:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | NB: NO separate pages for 770&windows, 770&mac, 770&linux, 800&windows.... | 04:19 |
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| Agge2 | Sorry. | 04:22 |
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| tzafrir | I'd really love supporting the neo900, but I have to go through hoops to paying them | 10:57 |
| tzafrir | I pass | 10:57 |
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| japa-fi | Slashdot picked up the story about neo900 | 11:16 |
| japa-fi | someone posted to comments: | 11:17 |
| japa-fi | I have an old n900 at home. I'll be sitting this one out as I don't like resistive screens. | 11:17 |
| japa-fi | If you can show you're a developer with some projects under your belt who can help this project just send me a message and I'll send you my phone | 11:17 |
| japa-fi | (hint hint) | 11:17 |
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| Pali | >>> [20:36:45] <DocScrutinizer05> ussd is completely obsolete <<< Why? | 13:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | because of starhash-enabler | 13:32 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: after you removed links in wiki they have appeared again. I was hoping after explaining he was going to move his flashing ver2 to userspace but now I feel it will be hanging around. I will leave for 24hours to see if they are moved before deciding what to do. | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't remove any links | 13:45 |
| Agge | the old pages should only be redirects right now I moved all of them | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all I did was rolling back an edit on the main page ~flashing | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: please clean this up proactively | 13:46 |
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| Agge | I did add a comment in the discusion page that I am working on the rev2 I hope that that is ok? | 13:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 13:47 |
| Agge | ok thanks | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: ooh, what I also did was setting a protect status on the page | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since we hardly seen any sensible edits during last 12 months | 13:48 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ah, sorry my bad... read the diff log wrong | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and even before there was more spam than useful edits | 13:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | oh yeah, I removed some spam on talk page | 13:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | just for the record and since it came to mind: if anybody isn't content with the work the other mods and me are doing on wiki: just go ahead discuss it with us, we're not the kings but the service dudes of wiki | 13:52 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Agge: sorry , thank you. | 13:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | if anybody got to finally decide on any dispute, then that's THE COUNCIL which many of you seem to have completely forgotten or consider irrelevant for maemo | 13:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: I agree | 13:53 |
| Agge | np sorry about being a jerk yesterday | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind | 13:54 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I was confused by the move log. Old links have been set to redirects | 13:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's normal for any move afaik | 13:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though iirc there's an option to do or not to do forwards | 13:56 |
| obiwlan | i'm still trying to get the latest cssu version. i set my date to 2011 like DocScrutinizer05 suggested and updated again using ham. it pulled a big cssu update, but even after rebooting the cssu about page still displays version 21.2011.38-T1.mameo8.3 | 13:56 |
| sixwheeledbeast | that is the latest | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 13:57 |
| sixwheeledbeast | testing version anyway | 13:57 |
| obiwlan | mh okay | 13:58 |
| sixwheeledbeast | the date needs to be 2010 to update to PR1.3.x then every thing is from cssu repo. | 13:58 |
| * sixwheeledbeast is wondering why it doesn't seem like the latest version | 13:59 | |
| obiwlan | sixwheeledbeast: i guess i read the devel changelog then | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ouch | 14:00 |
| obiwlan | ouch? | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we should make clear devel is a nogo for non-developers | 14:00 |
| obiwlan | i'm willing to take the risk :) | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's obviously too easy to confuse devel with testing or stable | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obiwlan: devel is DEFECT per definition | 14:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if a package wasn't defect or buggy it wouldn't sit in devel. To put it simple | 14:01 |
| obiwlan | DocScrutinizer05: i don't think it's that easy to confuse stable with devel, but if devel is broken.. that wasn't clear to me | 14:02 |
| kolp | The maemo version numbering scheme is complicated... | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | devel's purpose is for developers to share their buggy under-development code with other devels | 14:02 |
| kolp | That was re: sixwheeledbeast's wondering about 'the latest' | 14:02 |
| sixwheeledbeast | It's there to make it easier for devs to pre-test packages before releasing to testers. | 14:03 |
| sixwheeledbeast | kolp: it's not confusing at all IMO | 14:03 |
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| kolp | For a noob 21.2011.38-T1.mameo8.3 looks ancient | 14:04 |
| sixwheeledbeast | how? it follows debian packaging rules | 14:04 |
| kolp | The 2011 in there | 14:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | use dpkg --compare-version :) | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I gave up on giving this a meaning long ago | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | heritage | 14:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I see what you mean, it can't be helped. | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather - legacy | 14:05 |
| kolp | I'm not bitching about the cssu versions, but the original version numbers assigned by nokia :) | 14:05 |
| kolp | And file names | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, an abomination | 14:06 |
| kolp | Of the images | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on a sidenote: http://www.nokita.fi/pitch/ | 14:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they'll need the extra 2Billion for changing all signs on shops alone | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but it sounds really really good, best news since Elop born | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly p.12, p.13 ff | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this guy got balls and visions | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unlike MrFlop | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're aware that "linux host OS with sandboxes for guest OSes" also means "maemo running on it flawlessly and basically OOTB"? On *all* phones that meet this architecture guideline | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for me that would mean a mobile world of my dreams coming true | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if only they dont aegify it again | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are some concerning statements regarding that later on in this document | 14:17 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: don;t see that happening :( | 14:26 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: no, ussd contains ussd desktop widget with regexp parting, starhash enabler not | 14:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | umm, ok | 14:30 |
| Pali | and I think that starhash enabler not enabling USSD codes | 14:30 |
| Pali | but something other | 14:30 |
| Pali | USSD support is enabled by default in pr1.2 (or 1.3?) | 14:31 |
| Pali | for that starhash is needed to install that your package for enabling some config option | 14:31 |
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| Agge | would it be a bad idea to make the swap partition bigger by editing the eMMC img before flashing? | 14:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | In general, more swap never improves performance. If it's deep enough into swap that it needs it all - it's stalled anyway | 14:46 |
| ShadowJK | bigger swap delays onset of swap fragmentation though | 14:48 |
| ShadowJK | and even after it's fragmented, the performance hit isn't as bad right away | 14:49 |
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| Agge | ok thanks. was too long ago that I used a system that hade a amount of ram smal enough that swap would be usefully. might make it 1gb to make it more even | 14:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | EMMC is unfortunately rather slower. | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: true | 14:51 |
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| mashina_ | need to get autotools on my phone (need to build right on it) but all the packages for autothings are broken | 14:53 |
| ShadowJK | i just used the sdk rootfs in a chroot | 14:53 |
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| mashina_ | i'd like to compile on device | 15:15 |
| mashina_ | i have everything I need to build except autotools on it | 15:15 |
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| vandenoever | what's currently the best firmware for the n900? | 15:40 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 thinks making swap *amaller* and run reswap or sth similar will yield better results than making swap aven larger than it already is | 15:41 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | mashina_: all dudes who ever did builds on device used easydeb to install the gcc-suite and tools into it | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's kinda insane to try and install all to /, or even to try and optify all that crap | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vandenoever: | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~pr131 | 15:43 |
| infobot | [combined] the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/fiasco+co/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu | 15:44 |
| infobot | rumour has it, cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 15:44 |
| vandenoever | DocScrutinizer05: ok, so not a full community one but the last one by nokia? | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no "community one" | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cssu are patches on top of stock fremantle | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's still no other fremantle than stock fremantle | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | +distro* | 15:46 |
| vandenoever | ok, and no other firmwares, e.g. mer | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | other distro would be nitdroid, or SHR, or... | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or mer | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or nemo | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or whatever | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | none of those really useable as a daily phone afaik | 15:47 |
| vandenoever | ah, that's too bad, what's shr? | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nokia fremantle still is the firmware developed by the hw developers for their commercial product. Hard to outsmart it | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~shr | 15:48 |
| infobot | shr is probably The Stable Hybrid Release (SHR), intended to be a community driven distribution composed of the FSO and some basic applications, that can be configured to use several different graphical toolkits, for example GTK or EFL. SHR is based on the FSO build. At first, SHR was introduced in order to use the Openmoko2007.2 GTK software in combination with the new FSO, but things have changed. | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~fso | 15:49 |
| infobot | hmm... fso is the freesmartphone.org mobile devices middleware. | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme try sth | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~distros | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~distro | 15:50 |
| infobot | it has been said that distro is significa distribution (english) | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 15:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shr ^^^ | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thaks dos1 | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks* | 15:54 |
| vandenoever | ah, interesting ui | 15:56 |
| dos1 | it's enlightenment | 15:57 |
| dos1 | e17 with illume2 module | 15:57 |
| dos1 | that blue screens was my own custom theme | 15:57 |
| dos1 | and the ui was slower than it should be, cause as you can see in htop, something was eating 100% CPU all the time :D | 15:58 |
| vandenoever | onscreen keyboard seems good | 15:58 |
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| cryptonite | hey i am trying to install cssu-thumb but it is in conflict with package hildon-thumbnail, how can i solve this? | 16:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu-thumb | 16:08 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, cssu-thumb is <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb | 16:08 |
| cryptonite | never mind i found it | 16:09 |
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| cryptonite | or maybe not | 16:55 |
| cryptonite | so what is the proper way to install cssu-thumb? | 16:55 |
| freemangordon | ~cssu-thumb | 16:56 |
| infobot | cssu-thumb is, like, <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb | 16:56 |
| freemangordon | cryptonite: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597 , "How to install it?" | 16:56 |
| cryptonite | i have done what it says and it got me to the my first here | 17:00 |
| cryptonite | maemo 5 community ssu is in confliict with hildon-thumbnail | 17:01 |
| freemangordon | cryptonite: so, what is the problem? | 17:01 |
| cryptonite | and it wont install | 17:01 |
| freemangordon | ХИЛДОН-ТХУМБНАИЛ? | 17:01 |
| freemangordon | oops | 17:01 |
| freemangordon | hildon-thumbnail? which version? | 17:01 |
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| freemangordon | or rather, could you post the content of the "problems" tab in HAM? | 17:02 |
| cryptonite | wait cause it is checking for updates | 17:02 |
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| freemangordon | ok | 17:02 |
| cryptonite | it is trying to install "21.2011.38-1Tmaemo8.3" (shouldnt it be maemo8.2-thumb something?) and in problems tap it is in conflict with hildon-thumbnail(3.0.51+0m5) | 17:05 |
| cryptonite | what repos should i have enabled? | 17:05 |
| freemangordon | wait a minute to check something | 17:05 |
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| freemangordon | cryptonite: you should have cssu-testin, cssu-thumb and Nokia repos enabled | 17:06 |
| cryptonite | i have enabled nokia apps, nokia ssu, maemo extras, cssu testing and cssu testing-thumb | 17:08 |
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| freemangordon | yep, that's fine | 17:08 |
| cryptonite | so why it wont install? | 17:09 |
| cryptonite | maybe should i disable cssu testing-thumb and enable cssu thumb? | 17:09 |
| freemangordon | cryptonite: maybe because of the last -testing update, gimme some time | 17:09 |
| freemangordon | those should be equal | 17:09 |
| cryptonite | ok man am waiting | 17:10 |
| ShadowJK | 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo8.3 conflict with application packages hildon-thumbnail (3.0.51+0m5) | 17:10 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: ping | 17:11 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: pong | 17:11 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: <ShadowJK> 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo8.3 conflict with application packages hildon-thumbnail (3.0.51+0m5) | 17:11 |
| merlin1991 | dafaq? | 17:11 |
| freemangordon | any idea? | 17:11 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: BTW, did you push the latest -testing changes to gitorious? | 17:12 |
| merlin1991 | ah yeah I didn't push the mp | 17:12 |
| merlin1991 | sec | 17:12 |
| cryptonite | wish i could help you guys | 17:12 |
| freemangordon | cryptonite: join #maemo-ssu please | 17:14 |
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| mashina_ | so I need mono in the SDK to compile something, what do? a google ddg search only says how to compile mono itself (yeah, no, i've done that before) | 17:39 |
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| Pali | SHIT, ubuntu has started using systemd too: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=systemd&searchon=sourcenames | 18:35 |
| dos1 | Pali: using, or just having it in the repo? | 18:35 |
| Pali | pulseaudio depends on logind | 18:36 |
| Pali | logind is part of systemd and pulseaudio is needed on ubuntu | 18:36 |
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| Pali | so for this dependency, systemd is needed | 18:36 |
| sixwheeledbeast | It's in the repo since April but not enabled by default | 18:37 |
| Pali | sixwheeledbeast: pulseaudio 4.0 in ubuntu repos *needs* logind | 18:37 |
| Pali | and pulseaudio is dependency for ubuntu | 18:38 |
| Pali | yes, logind is only one part of systemd... | 18:38 |
| Pali | but they already using it | 18:39 |
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| NIN101 | afaik, debian is considering either upstart or systemd, but if it indeed comes down to one of them, I guess it will most likely be systemd. | 18:40 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I don't have systemd or logind but I have pulseaudio | 18:40 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | pulseaudio 4.0-0ubuntu6 to be exact, only dependency related is "libsystemd-login0" | 18:49 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | however that doesn't depend on systemd or logind to be installed only libc6 | 18:50 |
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| * sixwheeledbeast thinks freemangordon 's inbox is about to overflow... | 19:00 | |
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| sixwheeledbeast | it is annoying how SMM10 got binned after promising to support, then spam customers e-mail with android crap | 19:05 |
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| Deele | hello | 19:08 |
| Deele | it seems that .css is not working for http://maemo.org/, is it normal? | 19:09 |
| Pali | sixwheeledbeast: why is libsystemd needed then? | 19:09 |
| Pali | Deele: css is on some web server accessed via port 81 | 19:10 |
| Pali | enable firewall | 19:10 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^^^ there is really no option to use port 80 for static.maemo.org ? | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask warfare | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they sit on same server now | 19:12 |
| Pali | really there are lot of networks which blocking all outgoing ports except 22, 80, 443, 587, 993 and 995 | 19:12 |
| Deele | Pali oh, it works, thanks | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | static.maemo.org. 300 IN CNAME www.maemo.org. | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so it's kinda hard to spread them to two separate http server processes | 19:14 |
| Pali | $ wget -q maemo.org -O - | grep 81 | 19:14 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Deele: I am guessing firefox? | 19:15 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: yes, it is hard... | 19:15 |
| Deele | sixwheeledbeast all browsers, I had a limited ammount of ports, web browsers were allowed to connect to | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bbl, afk | 19:15 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: use only one http server for both and configure virtual server for static to forward requests to second? | 19:15 |
| Deele | stupid developers, why they could not use conventional css storage methods | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how would that offload load from apache? | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if we had an own IP for static.m.o then it would be simple | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but since nemein decided to use that approach in consolidation, we're kinda pawned now | 19:18 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: does not lighthttpd support virtual servers? | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how's that changing stuff? | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | suggest to run midgard under lighttpd? | 19:19 |
| Pali | you wanted to offload requests from apache | 19:19 |
| Pali | so you can use some other http server which will decide where to forward requests (if to apache or not) | 19:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I'm in a hurry. Please rethink | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check varnish | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask warfare | 19:21 |
| Pali | ok | 19:21 |
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| mashina_ | can I install packages from maemo.org into scratchbox? | 19:26 |
| beford | if you have active the ARM "mode" (can't remember the name) probably but they won't run perfectly | 19:27 |
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| Tekk_ | e there any man page packages? | 19:29 |
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| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: you pinged me about backupmenu not installing due to dependency issues, anything else that came up?= | 19:32 |
| merlin1991 | Tekk_: there is man-db-n900 | 19:36 |
| Tekk_ | thans | 19:39 |
| merlin1991 | mashina_: yes you can, and if there is an i386 build available you can even try them in the simulator | 19:39 |
| mashina_ | yeah, I just need it for mono and the sdk's toolchain | 19:39 |
| cryptonite | so after installing cssu-thumb i see i have kernel cssu3, does it have overclocking capabilities or should i install power? | 19:41 |
| freemangordon | cryptonite: it has | 19:41 |
| freemangordon | but you need to install kernel-power-settings | 19:41 |
| mashina_ | it'd build a a platform neutral binary | 19:41 |
| mashina_ | i just want the same version maemo has to avoid conflics | 19:41 |
| freemangordon | (to be able to use them) | 19:41 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: backupmenu installs perfectly fine, whoever had the problem had a broken repositories configuration | 19:42 |
| merlin1991 | hm mono, afaik there is a full blown monodevelop available for the n900 | 19:43 |
| cryptonite | cssu vs power, which is better and why? | 19:43 |
| freemangordon | -cssu is -power v 51r1 | 19:44 |
| merlin1991 | afaik the maintainer dissappeared when it didn't run on cssu for some time (thanks to the thumb toolchain problems we had) | 19:44 |
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| cryptonite | so the power kernel in extras-testing will be better | 19:48 |
| freemangordon | sure | 19:49 |
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| mashina_ | merlin1991: i need autconfo | 20:00 |
| mashina_ | aka all of gnu autohells | 20:00 |
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| cryptonite | how can i record the duration of a call? | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 20:04 |
| infobot | jrtools is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 20:04 |
| cryptonite | wtf is all that | 20:10 |
| merlin1991 | mashina_: there is autotools 1.9 available as highest version afaik | 20:11 |
| cryptonite | i will check when i have time | 20:11 |
| cryptonite | anyway thanx guys | 20:11 |
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| merlin1991 | mashina_: err automake 1.9 | 20:11 |
| merlin1991 | the packagename is automake1.9 | 20:11 |
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| mashina_ | mhmhmhmhmh, running an ./autogen.sh and it doesn't generate a install-sh | 22:07 |
| mashina_ | fuck | 22:07 |
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| zamn900 | hello does anyone know how to unlock choicelock? | 23:15 |
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| zamn900 | DocScrutinizer05, | 23:19 |
| zamn900 | do you anybody know choicelock | 23:19 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~choicelock | 23:20 |
| zamn900 | ~choice-lockscreen | 23:21 |
| zamn900 | actually | 23:21 |
| zamn900 | wow this perfectly overclocked n900 is very cool | 23:22 |
| sixwheeledbeast | when quick research indicates it's a skin for qtlockscreen. | 23:23 |
| Agge | am I corect that I souldent install cssu thumbs over the power kernel? or would I not need cssu tumbs it I use the power kernel? | 23:23 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I don't use qtlockscreen due to it pointlessly eating memory. | 23:23 |
| kolp | Agge: You can perfectly well install cssu-thumb while having power-kernel installed | 23:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Agge: doesn't matter if you install thumb after KP | 23:24 |
| Agge | aha thanks | 23:24 |
| zamn900 | nice stuff | 23:24 |
| Agge | any way to get the app manager to work faster? | 23:27 |
| Herbstbert | Maybe with the fast app manager? | 23:28 |
| zamn900 | theme customizer and choose (fast) option in there | 23:29 |
| zamn900 | ans QCPUFreq | 23:29 |
| Herbstbert | Agge: This one i meant: http://maemo.org/packages/view/fapman/ | 23:30 |
| Agge | thanks | 23:30 |
| zamn900 | hello does anyone know how to unlock choicelock? | 23:30 |
| Herbstbert | Agge: It's really waaaay faster. | 23:31 |
| zamn900 | I don't find yet any guide about the new choice lockscreen | 23:33 |
| zamn900 | I see red balls for unlocking the screen and says choose the right button | 23:34 |
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| Agge | no search in it? | 23:34 |
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| Agge | aha needed to download the repositors first :) | 23:36 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | ~fam | 23:38 |
| infobot | [fapman] Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. in short, it's deprecated | 23:38 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~broken | 23:39 |
| infobot | well, broken is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/known_broken_packages | 23:39 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ^^^ theme-customizer | 23:39 |
| zamn900 | it gives you faster impression of the use | 23:40 |
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| zamn900 | but kernel is the key | 23:41 |
| Agge | so is it ok to use to regular package install but not system upgrade installs? | 23:41 |
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| zamn900 | ... idk why as I upgraded I mean dist-upgraded I fucked up all times my n900 | 23:42 |
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| beford | dist-upgrade is not recommended either | 23:42 |
| zamn900 | yep | 23:42 |
| zamn900 | absolutely | 23:42 |
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| zamn900 | leave application manager upgrade alone the apps | 23:43 |
| Agge | too bad that you cant just use apt-get for everything | 23:44 |
| zamn900 | you can | 23:44 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Basically put up with HAM because all other options may end up in tears. | 23:44 |
| Agge | ^ | 23:44 |
| zamn900 | but not like normally you behaved | 23:44 |
| sixwheeledbeast | This is due to extra things HAM does over apt. FAM is a GUI for apt-get so is doubly pointless IMO. | 23:46 |
| Agge | so what would be needed is a rewrite of HAM? | 23:47 |
| zamn900 | what's HAM? | 23:47 |
| sixwheeledbeast | patches are added to HAM but it doesn't "need" a re-write. | 23:48 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~ham | 23:48 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, ham is Hildon Application Manager. Slow as molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does | 23:48 |
| Herbstbert | zamn900: Have the same problem with the choice lockscreen... ^^ No idea what to do with it. | 23:48 |
| zamn900 | oh default one | 23:48 |
| sixwheeledbeast | :nod: | 23:48 |
| zamn900 | Herbstbert, ok... let's hope | 23:48 |
| zamn900 | I mean anyway its author should have some email | 23:49 |
| Agge | any fast patch I can install for it? | 23:49 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Agge: the long story is here, covered many times before.... https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-10-28.log.html#t2013-10-28T10:44:33 | 23:50 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | patch as in CSSU maintained. | 23:51 |
| Agge | so I should have it on my phone after I installed CSSU? | 23:52 |
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| zamn900 | anyway Herbstbert the package is old at least 1 year | 23:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Agee: it's not going to get magically faster do matter what you install | 23:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Agge: what repos do you have enabled? | 23:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/do/no/ | 23:54 |
| infobot | sixwheeledbeast meant: Agge: what repos no you have enabled? | 23:54 |
| sixwheeledbeast | doh... | 23:54 |
| Agge | right now it just saying error. rebboting | 23:54 |
| zamn900 | laith mustafa is the author | 23:55 |
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