IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2013-09-23

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DocScrutinizer05moo14:16
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kerioµ14:31
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DocScrutinizer05~dict µ14:41
infobotcould not find definition for µ14:41
DocScrutinizer05~uselss14:41
DocScrutinizer05~useless14:41
* infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer05 in the darkest corner of the room. :(14:41
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oooaaaoooso anyone knows if the advanced power program adds any benefit to power management?17:04
robotanarchyis there a way to import scratchbox deb signatues for their apt repo?17:07
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DocScrutinizer05oooaaaaaauuu starts to annoy me17:16
DocScrutinizer05honestly, waiting almost 10 min and nobody answers! unbearable on IRC! :-S17:17
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psycho_oreosDoesn't that remind you of a similar case that applied to someone else? :)17:18
DocScrutinizer05err, there been several17:18
DocScrutinizer05nobody in particular comes to mind17:18
* psycho_oreos was thinking of the most recent one.17:19
DocScrutinizer05but I seem to recall educating oooaaaooo some two days ago that he shouldn't ask questions when he's not prepared to wait for somebody answering a few hours later maybe17:20
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psycho_oreos*shrugs* I didn't recall that (or maybe I've completely missed it). I guess maybe a /topic change telling people should be expected to wait. :)17:21
DocScrutinizer05psycho_oreos: sorry, such stuff gets stored to my archive with very few cross links17:21
DocScrutinizer05so unless it shows up by the same nick hitting my radar with same behaviour, odds are it gets lost in archive forever17:23
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer05, I guess hence its probably easily for you to get irritated. :) Then again I agree that people (especially inquirers) are expected to wait, otherwise pay for priority support.17:23
DocScrutinizer05I'm dealing with ~2k nicks on IRC, in those channels I moderate only17:23
DocScrutinizer05I pondered a nick-annotation function extension for IRC clients already17:24
DocScrutinizer05right click on a post, from context menu select "add this quote to user's rating"17:25
psycho_oreoshaha, that would sort of be going a bit too far. :) At any rate I would personally vote for /topic change to tell inquirers to wait. If they couldn't wait, that's fine they won't get their answers.17:25
DocScrutinizer05psycho_oreos: adding too much general rules to topic doesn't serve a purpose17:26
DocScrutinizer05particularly since /topic length has a technical maximum length17:27
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer05, *shrugs* true if the inquirers usually ignore /topic. Then again, it may help.17:27
DocScrutinizer05eeek tautology17:27
psycho_oreoso.O yeah there's that as well. (maximum length for /topic).17:28
psycho_oreosMaybe onjoin chanserv greet telling them to be expected to wait.17:28
psycho_oreosrobotanarchy, also considered about asking the same question in #scratchbox ?17:29
DocScrutinizer05I could set up an autoresponder on regex "<oooaaaooo>.*\?" --> "WAIT til somebody answers! we're not on 24/7 standby to do your 1st level support in less than 5 min"17:29
robotanarchypsycho_oreos: ah there's a channel for that? thanks xD17:30
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robotanarchyit's amazing how much the IRC of maemo etc. is populated in 201317:30
psycho_oreosThat would also work. :D17:30
psycho_oreosrobotanarchy, yeah I recall there was. Anyway I checked via /msg alis list *scratchbox* and there was one. Seems like only 10 people/bots are in it.17:31
DocScrutinizer05probably questions regarding SB rather go to some ML, since on IRC the SB support is scarce17:32
DocScrutinizer05the SB used in maemo is not even in maintenance mode anymore since at least 3 years17:33
DocScrutinizer05afaik they orphaned SB2 now17:35
DocScrutinizer05we're using SB(1)17:35
robotanarchyDocScrutinizer05: ok thanks, if I have a really big important question, I'll put it on the ML :) all the tutorials are for sb1 and I haven't done this before, so I'll stick to that, too17:35
robotanarchyI've also thought about sort-of building my own crosscompiling toolchain, but then again I only want to compile a few packages^^17:36
DocScrutinizer05SB is a PITA but once you got it set up it kinda works17:37
drathir~usb17:37
infobothmm... usb is Unusable Serial Bus.  Useless Serial Bus.  Ugly Stupid Bus17:37
DocScrutinizer05and it seems every possible problem arising from SB in maemo development got sorted meanwhile17:37
drathir~usbfix17:37
infobotwell, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)17:37
DocScrutinizer05I never heard about "importing SB sig to apt"17:38
psycho_oreosrobotanarchy, if you have issues setting up scratchbox. I was just thinking it maybe an easier solution (if possible) to use one of those pre-made VM with scratchbox already setup within it.17:39
psycho_oreosI'm guessing it sounds like one wants to install SB through apt. Then there's something like apt-key for instance.17:40
robotanarchyDocScrutinizer05: I guess their packages aren't signed. would be good practice though, since we build all the packages with that software (openssl, ssh, ... for starters)17:40
DocScrutinizer05nah, robotanarchy's question alludes to some signature of .deb packages SB allegedly does and that apt is not aware of or can't check. I never heard of SB doing any such signatures17:40
robotanarchypsycho_oreos: yes, I do it with apt, have already set up a i386 debian wheezy LXC VM for that and I guess it will work out, just wondered whether it was possible to verify the packages17:40
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psycho_oreosrobotanarchy, well I guess DocScrutinizer05's answer seems to be more precise there then.17:42
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robotanarchythanks anyway :)17:42
DocScrutinizer05robotanarchy: you have full control over the complete lifecycle of your homemade .deb. signing them won't help for anything17:43
robotanarchyi meant, if the scratchbox debs were signed17:43
DocScrutinizer05they are not17:43
robotanarchyit would help for man in the middle attacks etc17:43
robotanarchyyes that's clear now17:44
DocScrutinizer05I would notice any man in the middle of my USB cable ;-D17:44
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psycho_oreosSigning packages (especially deb) reminds me too much about 'harmattan'. :p17:45
robotanarchylol sure, I mean: when I set up my VM for debian package building, first I need the scratchbox binaries (from the scratchbox website, in deb form per apt-get). it would be nice if these debs from scratchbox.org  were signed17:45
DocScrutinizer05after all you're not supposed to publish your homemade .deb to the general public - and even when you do, those who are receiving them don't have any valid pubkey to verify your private signature17:45
DocScrutinizer05ooh, those17:45
DocScrutinizer05those are "secured" by md5sum17:46
DocScrutinizer05afaik17:46
robotanarchyDocScrutinizer05: Yes, debian packages have integrated md5 sums. I guess you get my point :)17:47
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psycho_oreosIf say in theory scratchbox were to be that popular, I'm sure the devs would have considered signing deb packages.17:48
DocScrutinizer05I just can't do anything about that, since we don't know about the original sb binaries either, since we didn't build them17:48
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DocScrutinizer05we're providing them "as is" via https:// if you like17:48
DocScrutinizer05that's as good a MITM attack prevention as it gets in this case17:49
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robotanarchyDocScrutinizer05: that would be better, yes :)17:49
DocScrutinizer05~whois scratchbox.org17:50
infobotwhois: user 'scratchbox.org' does not exist.17:50
DocScrutinizer05lol17:50
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DocScrutinizer05we inherited hosting of scratchbox.org from original maintainers, adn we provide the content "as is", we can't do any further signing on those "blobs", except https transfer. I dunno if scratchbox VM has a proper SSL cert for https, might check eventually17:52
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DocScrutinizer05MEH, no https on sb.org17:53
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: ^^^^ could you check that please?17:54
robotanarchyDocScrutinizer05: you could also provide sha512 sums on the blobs on another site, so users could check them (I might update/write a wiki article about scratchbox setup when I have mine, so I'd put that there)17:54
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: I'll eventually try to get a semi-decent SSL cert for it17:54
DocScrutinizer05robotanarchy: please ask thedead1440, he's our "new" sb vm maintainer17:55
robotanarchyDocScrutinizer05: ok :)17:56
DocScrutinizer05of course he can create sha512 sums and provide them on site17:56
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: until proper cert from CA, please ask warfare to provide self-signed cert for sb vm17:57
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DocScrutinizer05please send a mail to techstaff, with the requirement/change-request17:58
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DocScrutinizer05I won't keep track of this issue17:59
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japa-fiIs there some known bugs in N900 media player's mp3 tag support? I have some MP3s on the N900 and some of them are listed as unknown artist, though I can see there are id3v2 tags18:11
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DocScrutinizer05dunno18:19
DocScrutinizer05try musorgsky18:19
DocScrutinizer05id3 editor18:19
DocScrutinizer05if there's a bug, then it's in trackerd18:20
DocScrutinizer05not in media player18:20
DocScrutinizer05~tracker18:20
DocScrutinizer05grr18:21
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys tracker18:21
infobotFactoid search of 'tracker' by key (15): ftp mirror tracker ;; soundtracker ;; sarah tracker ;; jdtracker ;; timetracker ;; voodoo tracker ;; request tracker ;; jsetitracker ;; asterisk issue tracker ;; bugtracker ;; stracker ;; trackerreset ;; keg tracker ;; impulse tracker 3 ;; laptop tracker.18:21
DocScrutinizer05~trackerreset18:21
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, trackerreset is "tracker-processes --hard-reset" in Terminal18:21
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo trackerreset18:22
infobottrackerreset -- created by MohammadAG <~MohammadA@62.219.120.20> at Wed Jun 16 21:53:01 2010 (1194 days); it has been requested 8 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 29s ago.18:22
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japa-fiDocScrutinizer05, I've edited the tags with "id3v2"18:30
japa-ficommandline tool, that's why I like it.18:31
DocScrutinizer05sorry, hardly anything *I* can do about it18:31
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DocScrutinizer05I just can tell you that mediaplayer does NOT read id3 tags, it's tracker that does, when scanning your media files. this scan happening only now and then, triggered by a set of conditions18:32
japa-fiDocScrutinizer05, That's news to me18:33
japa-fiI assume one of the triggering conditions is exiting from USB mass storage mode...18:34
DocScrutinizer05err, nope18:34
DocScrutinizer05changes in files on any of the media storage volumes are, as seen by inotify18:34
DocScrutinizer05and there are options to disallow any indexing e.g. when on battery18:35
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DocScrutinizer05trackerreset usually triggers a full indexing run18:35
DocScrutinizer05which can take like 30 minutes, on huge mp3 volumes18:36
japa-fiI have some ~25-30files18:36
DocScrutinizer05should take only seconds then18:36
japa-fiSo: tracker-processes --hard-reset   will force re-indexing if I understood correctly18:37
DocScrutinizer05:nod:18:38
DocScrutinizer05touching any file should usually also force reindexing of prolly that file only18:38
DocScrutinizer05maybe only as long as trackerd "sees it" via inotify18:39
DocScrutinizer05there are watched dirs and indexed dirs, in tracker.cfg18:40
DocScrutinizer05the watched ones are prolly the ones monitored by inotify, while the indexed ones are those who are only scanned when a "huge scan" gets triggered by e.g. reboot or whatever18:41
DocScrutinizer05tracker is a pity, and buggy too18:41
DocScrutinizer05pta even18:41
DocScrutinizer05damn! PITA18:41
japa-fiOn a positive side: THe player seems to support the embedded images with mp3 (or its the tracker again), even supports png. Either it masks transparency as black or it supports it, but it's better than sonos. With sonos transparent equals to white -> ugly18:43
DocScrutinizer05might be thumbnailerd18:44
DocScrutinizer05creating .coveralbumart18:44
DocScrutinizer05or whatever the name of those files18:45
DocScrutinizer05iirc18:45
DocScrutinizer05meh, scrap that18:46
DocScrutinizer05trackerd seems to store the coveralbumart inside the db18:47
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DocScrutinizer05umm no, /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/.mediaartlocal18:49
DocScrutinizer05and /media/mmc1/allofmp3/C/Cure, The/Seventeen Seconds/.mediaartlocal18:50
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Sc0rpiusI wonder if there's a way to "wake" camera-ui and wait for the resulting picture (if any) via D-Bus or API or whatever21:14
Sc0rpiusI can't find a way from an app to call the camera app and if it takes a picture get the the filename of it21:14
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DocScrutinizer05afaik there's none21:41
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DocScrutinizer05you might be better off with nicocam aka cameraui2, from CSSU21:41
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DocScrutinizer05or take picture with generic means, there been several mini-howtos on that21:42
DocScrutinizer05gstreamer command, building your own pipe21:42
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DocScrutinizer05or you actually want to use cameraui with all the features like manual trigger button etc, then you could simply inotify-watch the DCIM dir for any new file showing up21:45
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DocScrutinizer05starting the cameraui (rather: unhiding the window, since cameraui is preloaded and always running afaik) should be feasible with standard means afaik, similar to starting any other app that has a .desktop21:47
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Sc0rpiuswell what I didn't want to do is make my own camera-ui (if I use gstreamer I would have to kinda do that)21:53
Sc0rpiusthere's a dbus signal to tell camera-ui to go to the top21:54
Sc0rpiusbut I would have also need to detect if the user didn't want to take a picture21:54
DocScrutinizer05why?21:55
Sc0rpiusto stop looking at the DCIM dir21:55
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DocScrutinizer05hmmm21:55
DocScrutinizer05check dbus for signals flying by when closing c21:56
DocScrutinizer05cameraui21:56
Sc0rpiusyeah I guess21:56
DocScrutinizer05indeed this function "macro" is missing a lot in a number of places21:57
DocScrutinizer05e.g. in avatar assigning in contacts21:58
DocScrutinizer05WTF start camera, take picture, then search DCIM manually in contacts to assign that snapshot to the contact avatar? pfff21:58
DocScrutinizer05mbarcode also created own GUI for camera21:59
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DocScrutinizer05quite a number of other apps as well would need or at least could use that genuine camera function22:00
DocScrutinizer05I almost could bet Qtm comes with an own widget that provides camera function but doesn't use the standard cam GUI either22:01
DocScrutinizer05maemo failed epically to support/provide those toolkit functions for "take picture", "make a note", "draw a sketch", etc22:03
DocScrutinizer05"record an audio sample"22:04
DocScrutinizer05"send an email"(?)22:04
DocScrutinizer05"send an SMS"22:05
DocScrutinizer05terribly poor API design22:05
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: probably you building a generic "shoot a picture" lib (or whatever, daemon, executable, dunno) would benefit all maemo community22:08
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DocScrutinizer05you will want to find out how to pass command line options to such executable, to define operation modes (macro, night mode, flash or no flash, etc pp) and the file where user finally will find the result. The executable should return OK (0) if everything worked, -1 for E_USER_ABORTED, < -1 for other errors (like "no free storage" or whatever)22:11
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Sc0rpiusbut like a wrapper of the camera-ui app?22:17
Sc0rpiusand I totally agree about epic fail from Maemo to provide an API for standard mobile operations.22:18
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DocScrutinizer05yep, wrapper to whatever hides behind standard cameraui22:22
DocScrutinizer05alternatively nicocam could (or already does?) provide a more generic API for such stuff, but obviously that doesn't help for non-CSSU users - unless you install nicocam as *alternative* in parallel to the stock cameraui22:25
Sc0rpiusyeah and I don't really want that22:28
Sc0rpiussame for FCamera / FCam22:28
Sc0rpiusthat also provides an API22:28
DocScrutinizer05:nod:22:30
DocScrutinizer05wrapper it is, then22:30
DocScrutinizer05should be feasible22:30
DocScrutinizer05with some dbus and inotify magic, plus prolly some gconf messing around for the modes (don't forget to reset to status before using the function, as soon as possible)22:31
DocScrutinizer05you need such wrapper anyway, for whatever been the reason you initially asked. Just make it a stand-alone binary wrapper that can get used by other apps as well22:33
DocScrutinizer05s/binary wrapper/wrapper executable/22:33
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: you need such wrapper anyway, for whatever been the reason you initially asked. Just make it a stand-alone wrapper executable that can get used by other apps as well22:33
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wotan147Folks when packaging for maemo. you don't need to login into scratchbox? I mean you do the sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL and all the rest from outside ?22:36
DocScrutinizer05I consider "cmdline" the most universal API interface, and just appropriate for this type of function, regarding complexity of invocation and speed/overhead of calling it. Each language has a system() call, and shellscripts are most natural environment for cmdline execuatbles. No need for any dbus interface or whatever, for that wrapper API22:36
DocScrutinizer05wotan147: I think you do that inside scratchbox22:37
DocScrutinizer05but ask somebody who actually did it during last 24 months22:38
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wotan147DocScrutinizer05 okay cause I mean in scratchbox i can not access to the documents of my host system22:40
shenteywotan147: as DocScrutinizer05 said, the workflow is to log into scratchbox and do the packaging there22:41
wotan147shentey22:43
shenteywotan147: and yes, you can't access files from your host system in scratchbox... you have to copy the files22:43
wotan147shenten okay so I copy everything from the host to guest then login and do the whole stuff?22:45
shentey(assuming we're talking about scratchbox 1... I've no idea about sb2)22:45
shenteywotan147: right22:46
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DocScrutinizer05either copy, or symlink. And of course you can access stuff *inside* SB from your host system, so your documents are maybe just in the wrong location from a host POV?22:56
DocScrutinizer05err bindmount22:56
DocScrutinizer05symlinks won't work22:56
DocScrutinizer05hardlinks will22:56
DocScrutinizer05or bindmounts22:57
DocScrutinizer05which documents you're missing?22:57
DocScrutinizer05all sourcecode and other files needed for packaging should already live inside SB22:58
DocScrutinizer05I seem to remember I created normal dir structure and files inside scratchbox, and created a convenient symlink to that location in my homedir, like /home/jr/maemo/ACMEproject/ -> /scratchbox/home/user/home/whatever/user/bla/sources/home/user/ACMEproject/23:01
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DocScrutinizer05symlinks from outside to inside SB work23:03
DocScrutinizer05but you can't escape from SB to host, since it's a chroot environment23:03
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wotan147shentey inside it says it doesnot find dh_make  while debhelper is installed .  do you have any idea?23:06
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wotan147DocScrutinizer05 I was missing all the source directory since it was all on the host. I did sudo cp -r * /scratchbox.......    and then chown from the host and now i can have it from inside the guest although I have problem with some files marked as root23:09
wotan147I will setup links as you said once the whole process work, now I have this weird think with dh_make23:10
shenteywotan147: what command are you executing?23:11
wotan147shentey dh_make --createorig --single -e myemail@pro.com -c gpl    but I have just spotted an internet that dh_make is not include with the debhelper of freemantel so apparently I have to dh_make from outside23:12
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shenteywotan147: alright... I'm not a .deb professional anyway ;)23:13
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wotan147it now says rm: cannot remove `build-stamp': Permission denied when i dpkg-buildpackage   do you know what it refer to?23:32
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