| WizardNumberNext | chears | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| WizardNumberNext | got most | 00:01 |
| WizardNumberNext | of what I had previously | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway if you *really want to mess with HAM and apt catalogs/repos on file level, this is what you're looking for: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list and http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | everything else apt reöated gets overwritten by HAM eventually | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | related* | 00:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or is ignored by HAM but not by fapman and apt-get, which makes for rather confusing behaviour that nobody really appreciates | 00:05 |
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| WizardNumberNext | ham is fine for as long as it installs what I want to install, otherwise I use apt | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the orthodox way to get catalogs installed is to click on following link (or similar links to other .install files), on N900 in microB or xchat: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/repositories.install | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see: | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 00:07 |
| infobot | it has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#Additional_Repositories actually | 00:08 |
| WizardNumberNext | ok I have kp52. Is it fine to install cssu-thumb? | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nothing wrong with using apt in general, you just should know which commands you *never* must use (unless you know *extremely* good what you're doing): apt-get upgrade and any form of autoremove (and probably also -f) | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: for cssu-thunmb you first want to install cssu | 00:10 |
| WizardNumberNext | I avoid doing anything fancy with aprt | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu | 00:10 |
| infobot | methinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 00:10 |
| WizardNumberNext | yeah I am definitely not going straight to thumb | 00:10 |
| WizardNumberNext | first testing | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cssu-thumb basing on cssu as cssu bases on fremantle | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | think of e.g. pacman repositories for opensuse: they are not a replacement but an auxiliary supplementary repo that needs the base installation repo underneath | 00:12 |
| raccoon_ | hey, what's the etymology behind the name choice "thumb"? | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc | 00:12 |
| WizardNumberNext | thumbnail | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask ARM | 00:12 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 shouts "OUCH" each time he hears "thumbnailer" | 00:13 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | user 1950 0.0 1.3 14912 3296 ? Ssl 17:08 0:06 /usr/libexec/hildon-thumbnailerd | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do I really want a deamon on my device that's nailing my thumbs? | 00:15 |
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| raccoon_ | that sounds highly uncomfortable | 00:21 |
| raccoon_ | nailing thumb demon of maemo | 00:21 |
| raccoon_ | maybe he's the one breaking those usb micro ports | 00:22 |
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| NeutrinoPower | hi, why don't work the gprs/gsm/umts... internet access on my N900 anymore? I tried the sim on a android-smartphone with success but on Maemo I only get an IP with gprs-device and cannot reach a website.. | 00:59 |
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| NeutrinoPower | I will ask tomorrow again | 01:03 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: actually, fucking up CAL won't do much | 01:22 |
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| kerio | raccoon_: are you talking about cssu-thumb? | 01:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: raccoon_ talked about /usr/libexec/hildon-thumbnailerd ;-) | 03:23 |
| kerio | k | 03:23 |
| kerio | mmh, maybe it's because thumb nails are kinda small? | 03:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | some weirdos (actually punks) explained to their friend that he needs a properly made earring piercing. They placed him on a wooden table with his ear on the table, used a nail and a hammer and pierced the ear ;-P... | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then they said "duh, don't meove, while we go searching for a pliers to pull the nail out of the table" | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | punk pranks | 03:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though I heard carpenters love that very prank as well | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | golden comment of a bystander: "GUY, _you_ got a huuuuge earring!" | 03:32 |
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| int_ua | Is wiki missing one CSS file? | 03:48 |
| int_ua | https://wiki.maemo.org/skins/monobookmaemo2009/FF2Fixes.css | 03:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | int_ua: why do you think this is needed/used by wiki? | 04:13 |
| benedikt | what apt repositories should one use? the ones that cojme.by default have expired keys | 04:15 |
| int_ua | DocScrutinizer05, wiki was broken several minutes ago, now it's fine again | 04:15 |
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| qwerty123 | where is email stored in vb6 | 04:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | benedikt: only the nokia repos. Those don't have any updates you would want to install anyway. and the expired key is only causing a Warning afaik, you can simply ignore it. If it actually causes problems, I heard you can simply change the date on your N900 to something in 2011 | 04:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | int_ua: that's caused by high load on www VM that also hosts static.maemo.org which serves the css and other static stuff for wiki, bugs, whatnot else | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and using https probably doesn't help on that ;-) | 04:31 |
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| raccoon_ | DocScrutinizer05: oh i know; that was just an example of my dried up humor. ;-P | 10:46 |
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| benedikt | shouldn't syncevolution be in extras? I can't find it, but i have the repo "http://repository.maemo.org/extras/".. | 14:35 |
| DrCode | hi all | 14:37 |
| DrCode | Is there software that can sava battery life? | 14:37 |
| DrCode | or show what take more power battery? | 14:37 |
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| benedikt | i gather from this page http://maemo.org/packages/view/syncevolution-frontend/ that syncevolution is only in -extras and -devel, so never mind | 14:53 |
| benedikt | but why do the repos use expired certs? | 14:54 |
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| Pali | benedikt: which repo? | 14:58 |
| Pali | downloads.maemo.nokia.com? | 14:58 |
| Pali | because nokia's gpg key expired and nokia does not want to fix it | 14:58 |
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| benedikt | Pali: yep. are there maemo/hildon hosted repos? | 15:09 |
| Pali | servers *.nokia.com are nokias's | 15:09 |
| benedikt | obviously :) | 15:10 |
| Pali | servers *.maemo.org are maemo | 15:10 |
| Pali | we can fix maemo repos but not nokia's | 15:10 |
| benedikt | my sources.list has repository.maemo.org for extras and downloads.maemo.nokia.com for the rest. are there *.maemo.org servers for them that i can replace the nokia servers with? | 15:12 |
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| Pali | nokia.com has OVI and system packages | 15:13 |
| Pali | other extras are on maemo | 15:14 |
| benedikt | are the nokia repos being updated? | 15:14 |
| freemangordon | Pali: hi | 15:14 |
| freemangordon | Pali: lets continue ke-recv here, it is too much of an effor to post about it on TMO :) | 15:15 |
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| Pali | benedikt: no, they refused | 15:17 |
| Pali | freemangordon: hi | 15:17 |
| benedikt | Pali: are there any plans on mirroring it and eventually moving to | 15:18 |
| benedikt | *.maemo.org? | 15:18 |
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| Pali | benedikt: do not know | 15:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | benedikt: how would we do that? All users had to install a package manually to get the new repo locations. that's not viable | 16:05 |
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| benedikt | DocScrutinizer05: who controls the maemo images these days? | 16:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | images? | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what exactly do you refer to? | 16:10 |
| Apic | Probably Flash-ROM-Images | 16:11 |
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| benedikt | DocScrutinizer05: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ # these. but it is .nokia.com so i'm guessing nokia | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hah, that's actually us | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | to control them | 16:12 |
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| benedikt | that way you could at least get new devices to automatically pull from repos you control yourselves.. but thats not a lot.. | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, feasible | 16:12 |
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| benedikt | might even be possible to push a packages to -extras that updates the sources.list.. | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we pondered that. It seems there's not a singe package in extras that everybody has installed | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | single* | 16:13 |
| benedikt | well. thats a shame. | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw, benedikt: you should NOT use sources.list for anything | 16:16 |
| benedikt | DocScrutinizer05: i know. ive used debian for more than a decade, it's just simpler to refer to it as sources.list than the full pathname | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-08-21 23:03:26] <DocScrutinizer05> anyway if you *really want to mess with HAM and apt catalogs/repos on file level, this is what you're looking for: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list and http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-08-21 23:04:11] <DocScrutinizer05> everything else apt reöated gets overwritten by HAM eventually | 16:17 |
| benedikt | HAM? | 16:18 |
| benedikt | seems like a good reason to uninstall the application manager then | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-08-21 23:05:12] <DocScrutinizer05> or is ignored by HAM but not by fapman and apt-get, which makes for rather confusing behaviour that nobody really appreciates | 16:18 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: nah, sources.list proper gets used by HAM and not modified | 16:19 |
| benedikt | kerio: cool, noted. | 16:19 |
| kerio | HAM's .list file obviously gets overwritten at least on every catalog modification | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but also not displayed in "catalogs" I guess | 16:19 |
| kerio | if not every time HAM starts | 16:19 |
| kerio | they're also displayed in catalogs | 16:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | still it's nonsensical to edit it, since otherwise why is mine 0 bytes? | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's kinda like editing resolv.conf | 16:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | resolv.conf has 127.0.0.1 and nuttin else, per definition. and sources.list is empty, per definition | 16:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | benedikt: I don't think uninstalling HAM is a great idea | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it won't instantly bring the system down, but for sure you're begging for trouble when you do | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | benedikt: and since we're already close to that topic: please note that apt-get upgrade and particularly apt-get dist-upgrade and autoremove, and prolly even -f sometimes, are extremely dangerous and deprecated, since they all tend to fubar your maemo system | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo is not a plain debian when it comes to apt, repos, packaging | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why you want to keep HAM | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for quite a few things Nokia invented very own concepts orthogonal to standard linux resp debian | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | other stuff they implemented their own personal flavour of some functions that later on got also into upstream linux but implemented differently. See sudoers and update-sudoers and include directive | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | duh, that would make for a very nice CSSU project: get a newer sudo that knows about "include <dir>" | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nuke update-sudoers | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, benedikt: without HAM no proper installing or updating of any CSSU | 16:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nothing wrong with using apt-get install for getting new packages, but *updates* you should leave to HAM and possibly auto-update | 16:40 |
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| benedikt | CSSU? | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu | 16:40 |
| infobot | i guess cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I strongly suggest *stable | 16:40 |
| benedikt | didnt know that. might be why i broke maemo last time | 16:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, ignoring those idiosyncrasies of maemo is a too easy way to mess stuff up | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually you shouldn't even do updates with HAM as long as extras-devel (or -testing) is enabled | 16:42 |
| jon_y | use apt? | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not all packages that would get updated to latest version in extras-devel are safe. every now and then we see a really rogue one in there | 16:43 |
| benedikt | wait what | 16:44 |
| benedikt | just befor you said i should only update with HAM, | 16:44 |
| benedikt | ? | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: nah, cherrypick package by package. Then it doesn't matter if you use apt-get install or HAM | 16:44 |
| jon_y | ok | 16:44 |
| benedikt | if i have extras-devel and/or -testing, should i update with apt-get or HAM? what if i have either of those? | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but a apt-get upgrade or "install/update all" in HAM is most likely fatal when extras-devel is enabled, sooner or later | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | having both extras-devel and extras-testing doesn't really make any sense | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since all packages in testing went through devel | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a package goes extras-devel -> extras-testing -> extras | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | extras is considered "safe" | 16:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | testing basically only for *real* testers who want to help evaluating the packages and make them go to extras or reject them due to flaws they have | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | devel is bleeding edge that's not tested at all, rogue or dangerous or fubar stuff *will* be there | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | amog pretty stable other packages that simply never got promoted to extras | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | among* | 16:50 |
| benedikt | right, but how does one update safely? | 16:51 |
| benedikt | wasnt sure if packages went first to -devel or -testing | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you simply do update via HAM with extras-testing and exzras-devel repo disbaled | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for -testing and -devel you do cherrypicking for the one or two ;) packages you got from there, after you checked the changelog and supplementary info about the new version of that package | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is cumbersome, but then extras-devel never been meant for general usage | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | recently somebody uploaded some X11 related package to extras-devel that broke the whole system | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui every user would have installed it as soon as you do upgrade on extras-devel via apt or HAM | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | libc6 eventually appeared on extras-devel | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | incompatible broken qt versions appeared on extras-devel | 16:56 |
| jaska | heh | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | using extras-devel like a normal repo is a warranty for doom, if not today then maybe next month | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you enable extras-devel, install (or update) your package(s) you're interested in, and immediately disable the catalog again | 16:58 |
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| benedikt | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, that sounds like the safe way to do it | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 17:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the added benefit: HAM is much less slow as long as extras-devel (and -testing) are disabled | 17:05 |
| benedikt | i havent enabled them yet and i think HAM is terribly slow | 17:05 |
| benedikt | is there a nice way to use gpg with the email client? | 17:06 |
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| benedikt | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zx8qdVs7Ug # how do i get the n900 to show the kernel messages when booting and why have I never seen this REALLY EXCITING VIDEO when booting mine? | 17:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#replace_shaking-hands_video | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for the boot messages you need a kernel supporting that | 17:12 |
| korhojoa | power-kernel should be able? | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I thik so | 17:13 |
| benedikt | i want to use LUKS soon, i suppose that requires another kernel anyways | 17:13 |
| korhojoa | or can r&d mode with vanilla kernel do that? | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | think* | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | korhojoa: no | 17:13 |
| korhojoa | okay | 17:14 |
| benedikt | unfortunately, the url the youtube video gives is dead | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vanilla kernel has no fb | 17:14 |
| korhojoa | ah, okay | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also iirc you need a patched kernel cmdline to tell kernel to actually do logging to fb console | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | KP comes with cmdline patched afaik | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# cat /proc/cmdline | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6 | 17:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ this is vtock kernel cmdline and it doesn't have the needed directive to log to console | 17:18 |
| kerio | my n900 doesn't find any wifi network :s | 17:19 |
| kerio | i think it's because there are so many of those | 17:19 |
| kerio | there's awful congestion | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hard to believe that not a single beacon comes thru | 17:19 |
| kerio | i find no wifi network | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iwlist scan | 17:20 |
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| kerio | er, wot | 17:21 |
| kerio | Network is down | 17:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/64047300 | 17:22 |
| kerio | No scan results | 17:22 |
| kerio | after an ifconfig wlan0 up | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ifup ? | 17:23 |
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| kerio | not ifup | 17:24 |
| kerio | ifup is the debiany thing that also runs scripts that don't actually exist in maemo | 17:25 |
| kerio | this is silly | 17:25 |
| kerio | it finds no networks whatsoever | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and ifconfig is the thing that directly talks to hardware then, without letting system know about state change in wlan? | 17:26 |
| kerio | yeah | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Aug 12 07:34:47 IroN900 wlancond[2462]: WLAN Connection Daemon 3.0.20.1+0cssu2 started. | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Aug 12 07:34:47 IroN900 wlancond[2462]: WLAN flight mode changed to "normal" | 17:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm pondering to revert to "good old" stock wlancond | 17:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | too many strange thing happening to my WLAN since quite some time | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's not a strange thing, but should give kerio sth to think about: | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Aug 12 07:34:49 IroN900 kernel: [43183.658721] wl1251: 151 tx blocks at 0x3b788, 35 rx blocks at 0x3a780 | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Aug 12 07:34:49 IroN900 kernel: [43183.674316] wl1251: firmware booted (Rev 4.0.4.3.7) | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Aug 12 07:34:49 IroN900 wlancond[2462]: Scan issued | 17:31 |
| kerio | wait, wl1251? | 17:31 |
| kerio | oh, wl12xx | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this however is kinda strange, though I guess it always been like this: | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Aug 12 07:34:50 IroN900 wlancond[2462]: Scan results ready -- scan active | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Aug 12 07:34:50 IroN900 wlancond[2462]: Scan results (6 APs) to :1.81 | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Aug 12 07:34:50 IroN900 icd2 0.87+fremantle10+0m5[2553]: connecting iap 0x420f8 in state ICD_IAP_STATE_SCRIPT_PRE_UP: interface is '(null)' | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Aug 12 07:34:50 IroN900 kernel: [43185.088592] wl1251: down | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Aug 12 07:34:51 IroN900 icd2 0.87+fremantle10+0m5[2553]: connecting iap 0x420f8 in state ICD_IAP_STATE_LINK_UP: interface is 'wlan0' | 17:34 |
| benedikt | ~cssu | 17:35 |
| infobot | cssu is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 17:35 |
| benedikt | funny bot | 17:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~+chaninfo | 17:38 |
| infobot | 126/126 channels, 5049 users, 3807 unique: #debian/1336, #kde/431, #macosx/337, #gsoc/306, #maemo/233, #asterisk/194, #wowuidev/139, #oe/136, #cubieboard/125, #harmattan/114, #meego/107, #wowace/106, #arm-netbook/89, #utah/82, #webos-internals/75, #openmoko/69, #wowhead/67, #openmoko-cdevel/67, #edev/62, #bzflag/56, #asterisk-dev/50, #maemo-ssu/45, #htc-linux/41, #sc2mapster/40, #curseforge/40, #gllug/36, #n9/35, #uphpu/35, #slug/31, #elinux/29, ... | 17:38 |
| kerio | meh, still doesn't work | 17:38 |
| kerio | but it never did properly | 17:38 |
| kerio | so i don't think it's cssu | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like you messed up your system's connectivity subsystem. E.G by installing auto-disconnect, or whatever | 17:39 |
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| benedikt | isn't this a reasonable assumption: if i flashed my device just yesterday, then i'm running PR1.3. | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you downloaded an obsolete image file | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~pr131 | 17:40 |
| infobot | hmm... combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/fiasco+co/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 17:40 |
| benedikt | i downloaded the newest i could find, but it was still from 2011 | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~pr13 | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mmmpff | 17:41 |
| benedikt | i downloaded this one RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin (sha1: 54c9e5d6491ea73f9f4131c9f19cc01f9934fcdb) | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues pr_combined | 17:41 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'pr_combined' by value returned no results. | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues *pr_combined | 17:41 |
| infobot | Factoid search of '*pr_combined' by value returned no results. | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues PR_COMBINED | 17:41 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'PR_COMBINED' by value returned no results. | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | damn | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 36-2 is PR1.3 | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MR0 is 2global" | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/2/"/ | 17:42 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: MR0 is "global" | 17:42 |
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| benedikt | DocScrutinizer05: so i have PR1.3 | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 17:43 |
| benedikt | nice | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also see ~cssu | 17:44 |
| benedikt | i did, thats why i was wondering if i had 1.3 | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it elaborates on how to make sure | 17:44 |
| benedikt | just noticed. :| | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please foolow instructions faithfully! | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | follow even | 17:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, had to fix a few flaws in that instruction | 17:55 |
| benedikt | did you just update the wiki? | 17:56 |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: It is possible to add pr1.3.1 to http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ ? | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think it should be easy to accomplish | 18:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | benedikt: yup | 18:00 |
| kerio | ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not ready | 18:00 |
| * benedikt reloads | 18:00 | |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: and mirroring downloads.maemo.nokia.com on *maemo.org? | 18:00 |
| kerio | what is this D: | 18:00 |
| benedikt | is there a newer version of python somewhere for maemo? | 18:01 |
| Pali | benedikt: look at maemo extras | 18:01 |
| Pali | only there can be | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~pkg | 18:01 |
| infobot | somebody said pkg was http://maemo.org/packages/ | 18:01 |
| Pali | kerio: what? | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: mirroring? why? | 18:02 |
| kerio | whenever i try to look for the available wifi networks | 18:02 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: backup + resign repository | 18:02 |
| Pali | with new or some maemo.org key | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err wait, what's on downloads.m.n.c? | 18:02 |
| Pali | SSU | 18:02 |
| Pali | and others | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, sure we can mirror it, but it's kinda useless unless we find a way to point all devices to the mirror | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no? | 18:03 |
| benedikt | DocScrutinizer05: seems like there is only the 2.5 branch | 18:04 |
| Pali | kerio: does it have "IPv6:" prefix? that dmesg message? | 18:04 |
| kerio | no | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: reflash stock, test, report | 18:04 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: it can be usefull for cssu users or users who read TMO, IRC, RSS, mailinglist... | 18:04 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: fair enough | 18:04 |
| kerio | but it's going to be hell :c | 18:05 |
| Pali | kerio: same problem I have on desktop | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: :nod: | 18:05 |
| Pali | [ 44.811991] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not read | 18:05 |
| Pali | but there is IPv6 prefix | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: prolly we need to go that stony path | 18:05 |
| kerio | this has been an intermittent problem for me, fwiw | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: since Nokia never will fix the friggin gpgkey | 18:05 |
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| Pali | kerio: look: http://siso.sourceforge.net/wireless-linux.html | 18:07 |
| Pali | ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not ready, merely means what it says: the link is not up yet. The link will be up once wpa_supplicant negotiated the key. | 18:07 |
| kerio | there's no key! | 18:08 |
| kerio | there's no wifi network! | 18:08 |
| kerio | for crying out loud | 18:08 |
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| kerio | what's happening | 18:08 |
| Pali | maemo not using wpa_supplicant but proprietary nokia eapd SW | 18:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | toldya | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | didn't I? | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-08-22 16:26:28] <DocScrutinizer05> and ifconfig is the thing that directly talks to hardware then, without letting system know about state change in wlan? | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: why did KP need epoch? | 18:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: I try to wrap my head around whether we need to support epoch in maemo.org (autobuilder) | 18:18 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: I do not remember correctly, but there was problem when we integrated upstream linus diff from 2.6.28 to 2.6.28.10 | 18:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | how's that related to version string? | 18:19 |
| Pali | 10 was added to version string | 18:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 18:19 |
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| Pali | and there was problem that dpkg told that new version os older | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but version string of KP is sth like 52, no? | 18:20 |
| Pali | so I added epoch to deb package like in other similar problems in debian | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas maemo ignores epoch, at best | 18:20 |
| Pali | it has suffix 52 | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo.org infra, that is | 18:21 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: 1:2.6.28-10power52 | 18:21 |
| kerio | there's already an epoch there | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HAH | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes I know there's an epoch now, I asked WHY | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course when you break versioning sheme like 2.6.28power49 -> 2.6.28-10power52, that can not work | 18:23 |
| benedikt | is there a way to run the UI as some other user than "user"? | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas epoch isn't a "fix" in this case either, at least on maemo.org autobuilder | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | benedikt: hardly | 18:24 |
| benedikt | DocScrutinizer05: meh | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "user" user hardcoded in some locations | 18:24 |
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| benedikt | DocScrutinizer05: was it only extras-devel that you should disable between uses or should i do that with -testing as well? | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you probably don't want testing at all | 18:25 |
| benedikt | it had a bunch of packages i wanted.. | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's redundant for regular users, when they use -devel anyway | 18:26 |
| benedikt | i was trying to stay away from -devel | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then you probably can use testing as a halfway-to-"safe" replacement for -devel | 18:27 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: yes this was reason: I wanted to have kernel version same as package version | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | again, every package goes extras-devel -> extras-testing -> extras | 18:27 |
| Pali | and I really did not know that maemo infra does not support what is supported on debian | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: no blaming | 18:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: anyway a better versioning for KP probably is 52power2.6.28-10 | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly since the real kernel version not really applies to KP with all its backports of features from newer kernels | 18:30 |
| kerio | 1:2.6.28... is still higher than 52po... | 18:30 |
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| Pali | btw, how was epoch in repos fixed? | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, it isn't, on maemo.org. it however is on apt dpkg etc | 18:31 |
| Pali | packages were manually imported? | 18:31 |
| Pali | I mean in package interface | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | epoch gets ignored completely | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on maemo.org | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui | 18:32 |
| Pali | ok, so if I put new version (with epoch) will it be imported to package interface? | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could use 1:52power2.6.28-10 | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik maemo.org simply does a s/[0-0]:// on _some_ locations | 18:33 |
| Pali | ok | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik maemo.org simply does a s/[0-9]:// on _some_ locations | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so make sure your versioning isn't violating epoch rules (for apt's sake) while your version string *without epoch* should still be strictly monotonically growing | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if you can avoid by any means, do not use epoch at all | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for now, according to freemangordon, our policy is: NO changes in epoch! | 18:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so if you're using 1:, keep it. If you don't use epoch, don't change that either | 18:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo.org doesn't support epoch really. It at best treats epoch like a normal part of version string, worst case simply ignores epoch all together like it wasn't existing. (or swap best and worst here) | 18:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | for handling mess with epoch changes, we simply nuke all packages from a project, then developer may upload whatever she likes | 18:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I think we got ~5 projects that use epoch, in extras* | 18:40 |
| kerio | just... make it work? | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: it can't be done since db has no epoch | 18:40 |
| kerio | huh? | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | epoch is removed from version string in db | 18:41 |
| kerio | well that's fucking dumb | 18:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | that is how it been since birth of maemo | 18:41 |
| kerio | who threw away information? | 18:41 |
| kerio | for fuck's sake | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so no way we can fix that stuff | 18:42 |
| * benedikt gets the popcorn | 18:42 | |
| kerio | yes we can, we know where the package versions are | 18:42 |
| kerio | in the .debs | 18:42 |
| kerio | and in Packages | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, nobody will edit the midgard db | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since that will likely make our sun go supernova | 18:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo doesn't support epoch, take it | 18:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we honestly got much more severe issues we need to fix, that are less effort and less demanding to fix, and yet we don't have the manpower to do those | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | epoch, blablablapfffffff | 18:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | who T F needs epoch? | 18:46 |
| kerio | me! me! | 18:50 |
| kerio | i need epoch for reasons | 18:50 |
| kerio | vital ones | 18:50 |
| kerio | anyway, ignoring epoch can work i suppose | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or let me put it this way: you (and everybody interested) are free to port maemo.org incl all the funny custom made scripts to some CMS that's still supported, like e.g. midgard2, and for sure during such migration effort we could fix epoch issue en passant | 18:51 |
| kerio | but write it somewhere, or devs might expect to be able to do that | 18:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, agreed | 18:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we removed the hack xfade implemented to allow pali to upload and promote his KP with epoch. Now it's back to the state where maemo.org completely ignores epoch (aiui, ask fmg) and thus somebody uploading a package with epoch will notice soon enough that it doesn't promote and thus will come here to ask what's wrong | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but nonetheless I agree we should publish an according note that epoch should not get used to increment version | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since maemo doesn't watch for changes in epoch | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and when you can't change epoch (also not from non-using to using it), then it's useless anyway | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | get your versioning sorted then you don't need to resort to epoch ;-) | 18:57 |
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