| Sc0rpius | since freemangordon is now an autobuilder mantainer, can I bother him about the libx11-data bug? | 00:00 |
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| kerio | i bother him with all sorts of weird shit all the time anyway | 00:16 |
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| Jellyroll | did onyone managed to soldering the rechargable coin LiIon cell backup-battery | 00:50 |
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| Jellyroll | I don't have any soldering skills | 00:56 |
| Jellyroll | I need to know what temp. and tin to use | 00:57 |
| SpeedEvil | You can install various ntpd daemons - or similar - which will reset the clock shortly after it gets onto a network | 00:57 |
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| Jellyroll | I do already have ntpd installed and plan to add it to a frcon script but I do also got a display en hwkb that needs to be replaced. | 01:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq, did you think it#s easy to count number of lines in a file? | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when last line is missing trailing cr | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alternative: grep -cv '^$' $filename | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | counts non-empty lines | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or awk 'END { print NR }' $filename | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | latter one a true alternative to wc -l that works like you'd intuitively expect wc to do | 01:12 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if a file with a single CR byte has one or two lines, or maybe zero | 01:14 | |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: trailing newline doesn't count | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't count in what? | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | awk 'END { print NR }' $filename | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | says a file with a single 0x0a byte has one line | 01:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 3 bytes "1\n2" are two lines in editor and by awk 'END { print NR }' $filename, but only one line in wc -l | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since wc -l counts "\n" | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 4 bytes "1\n2\n" are 2 lines in awk and wc -l | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and editor | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | echo -e '\n1' >xx creates also a 2 line file for editor and awk, but only one line in wc -l | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oops, echo -ne | 01:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | head also think there's a line#2 in "\nA" | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually about everything and everybody thinks that's a 2 line file, just wc doesn't | 01:25 |
| Jellyroll | the toilet doesn't | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't know *my* tolet | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | toilet even | 01:27 |
| LjL | i am perplexed about CSSU... initially i thought stable would just be testing after the testing had been done, but, latest stable is from 2013 while latest testing is from 2011 yet testing has some things (camera-ui) stable lacks? also for instance, the patched fmtxd, do i find it in stable or testing (or neither)? | 01:27 |
| kerio | >latest testing is from 2011 | 01:27 |
| kerio | [citation needed] | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yoh! | 01:28 |
| Jellyroll | Yoh? | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | heatwave | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | everyboddy babbling silly stuff, incl me | 01:28 |
| LjL | kerio: eh i don't know, basing it on wiki | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu | 01:30 |
| infobot | from memory, cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 01:30 |
| LjL | oh i guess i'm a bit sleepy, i realize now i was reading the version number instead of the date at http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog | 01:31 |
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| Luke-Jr | gah, wife forgot to bring N900 home, so I still need to figure out how to get it to go back to 3G remotely :/ | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | remotely? | 04:00 |
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| Hurrian | Luke-Jr: smscon? ssh tunneling? | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: what's your exact task definition? | 04:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | switch from wlan to GPRS? | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | switch from 2G to 3G? | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | go from powerdown to full online via WOL? ;-P | 04:09 |
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| ecc2g | hmm...syncevolution broke... :( | 04:21 |
| ecc2g | broke around the same time I installed CSSU... boo... | 04:21 |
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| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: yeah | 04:30 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: my exact goal is to get the N900 providing a backup internet connection | 04:31 |
| Luke-Jr | WLAN->WCDMA | 04:31 |
| Luke-Jr | I have usbnet for ssh | 04:33 |
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| Luke-Jr | woo, VNC works if someone local turns on the screen | 04:38 |
| * Luke-Jr ponders if there's a way to get it to automatically setup usb0 whenever it has a USB PC link | 04:38 | |
| Luke-Jr | wtf, X crash | 04:41 |
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| drathir | Luke-Jr: dhcpd usb0 ? | 04:52 |
| Luke-Jr | drathir: can't issue commands without access | 04:53 |
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| Luke-Jr | is there a crontab support for Maemo? | 05:15 |
| Luke-Jr | I could cronjob ifconfig .. | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alarmed | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even better than crontabs | 05:18 |
| Luke-Jr | is there a CLI way to deal with it? | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one thing it's missing: symlink from /usr/bin to /opt/bla/bla/python/bla | 05:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ll `which alarmed` | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 23 2011-06-20 15:53 /usr/bin/alarmed -> /opt/alarmed/alarmed.py | 05:20 |
| Luke-Jr | oh, that's for CLI? O.o | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you don't have /opt/alarmed/ in your $PATH... | 05:21 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: no better way to get usbnet working automatically? <.< | 05:21 |
| Luke-Jr | I don't have /opt/alarmed at all - nor do I see a package :/ | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/alarmed/ | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/8b77b511fe | 05:24 |
| Luke-Jr | I don't have the devel/testing repos | 05:27 |
| Luke-Jr | bah, even if I automatic ifconfig, I'd need a way to select PC Suite Mode :/ | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | less `which osso-usb-mass-storage-disable.sh` | 05:42 |
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| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: is extras-testing safe? | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | depends | 05:57 |
| Luke-Jr | :x | 05:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not recommended for "update-all" style | 05:58 |
| Luke-Jr | update-all seems broken anyway. I have no battery gague anymore :< | 05:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the repo itself is safe, except for HAM getting even slower yet | 05:59 |
| jon_y | update-all seems to take forever to scan | 05:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if anything is not safe, then that are packages of crappy (or even rogue?) apps | 06:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and system components some joker uploaded to extras-devel | 06:01 |
| jon_y | how did it manage to get through? | 06:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no idea | 06:01 |
| jon_y | so it was a security breech then? | 06:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I never looked ibnto all that | 06:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno if there *is* any security on that level | 06:02 |
| Luke-Jr | :| | 06:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after all, what means "security" here? | 06:03 |
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| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: not letting some random joker upload stuff? | 06:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | generaly speaking, HAM will refuse to update system packages from extras repos, since Nokia base repos' trust-level is higher | 06:04 |
| psycho_oreos | <Luke-Jr> ...(truncated)... I have no battery gague anymore :< <-- are you by any chance using advanced power monitor daemon? | 06:04 |
| Luke-Jr | yes | 06:04 |
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| psycho_oreos | I've got a nifty script that sorts it out, albeit not automatically. | 06:04 |
| Luke-Jr | ? | 06:04 |
| Luke-Jr | it worked fine until some update a while ago | 06:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaaah now I recall: advanced power monitor was exactly what the name suggested: monitor advanced power usage | 06:05 |
| psycho_oreos | The script just kills the python which runs apmdaemon.py iirc. After the python process (for that one) gets killed, it will respawn and since respawn I have never seen the battery gauge meter failing to show. | 06:05 |
| psycho_oreos | o.O. Though the applet that I have can control which BME to use, Nokia's BME or alternative BME. | 06:06 |
| jon_y | for extra fun, killall -9 python :) | 06:06 |
| psycho_oreos | Why not make it into a while loop >:D | 06:07 |
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| jon_y | ps -aux | grep apmdaemon.py | gawk '{print $1}' | xargs -r /bin/kill -9 | 06:07 |
| jon_y | kills the first thing that has apmdaemon.py in it | 06:07 |
| psycho_oreos | I've got a better one, hang on lemme get it from my script out. I have it working with Queen BeeCon widget. | 06:08 |
| jon_y | I know there are better ps args, too lazy to dig it up :) | 06:08 |
| psycho_oreos | kill `pgrep -f /opt/maemo/usr/lib/advanced-power-monitor/apmdaemon.py` | 06:09 |
| jon_y | I remember the satanic union of an app between Java and Perl at work | 06:10 |
| jon_y | the thing won't die after exiting | 06:10 |
| jon_y | it kept some files locked | 06:10 |
| psycho_oreos | It gets zombified? o.O | 06:10 |
| jon_y | no idea | 06:10 |
| jon_y | killall -9 java fixed it | 06:10 |
| psycho_oreos | Yeah I was thinking Java would most likely be the culprit :) | 06:11 |
| jon_y | stupid java coder can't write perl nor java | 06:11 |
| jon_y | the java script backgrounds itself somehow and launches java in the backround again | 06:11 |
| psycho_oreos | Zombified process are the more horrid ones, no way to kill it without restarting the machine iinm. D: | 06:11 |
| jon_y | so you can't kill it from your termninal builtin kill | 06:11 |
| jon_y | nor do you see it in your terminal jobs list | 06:12 |
| psycho_oreos | lolwut, sounds almost like a fork bomb. | 06:12 |
| jon_y | I know not what transpired such madness | 06:12 |
| psycho_oreos | Yeah I guess the actual base Java program is probably ran by root or something and gets respawned probably by the likes of init. | 06:12 |
| jon_y | no, it definitely runs as the current user | 06:13 |
| psycho_oreos | o.O | 06:13 |
| jon_y | it was just way over engineered | 06:13 |
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| jon_y | like Rube Goldberg | 06:13 |
| jon_y | Rube's cartoon inventions | 06:13 |
| HtheB | ~seen robbiethe1st | 06:14 |
| infobot | robbiethe1st <~robbiethe@50-37-148-53.mscw.id.frontiernet.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 13d 47m 6s ago, saying: '... of course, this is the wrong window, but meh'. | 06:14 |
| jon_y | I have a sinking feeling most in-house apps my company does is because of the constant turn-over rate | 06:14 |
| jon_y | nobody knows what they are doing | 06:14 |
| jon_y | nor do they know how to look on google before starting something new | 06:15 |
| jon_y | there was another GUI "flow" manager, which more or less reinvents make | 06:15 |
| psycho_oreos | I guess it boils down to... "If it ain't broken, don't fix it." sort of strategy. So things just gets left behind without improvements. | 06:15 |
| jon_y | depdenencies, parallelism and all that | 06:16 |
| jon_y | except with a GUI | 06:16 |
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| psycho_oreos | lol. | 06:16 |
| jon_y | and it's in Java | 06:16 |
| jon_y | I guess no one heard of makefiles when they started it | 06:16 |
| psycho_oreos | Would sir like more memory usagfe on top of that? :D | 06:16 |
| Luke-Jr | Java developers still don't have makefiles | 06:17 |
| psycho_oreos | s/fe/e/ | 06:17 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: Would sir like more memory usage on top of that? :D | 06:17 |
| jon_y | why of course, they have entire suites of number crunching apps in tcl | 06:17 |
| jon_y | and write C in KnR style | 06:17 |
| jon_y | guys, KnR style is older than your mom when she started working | 06:18 |
| jon_y | foo_function(arg1, arg2, arg3) | 06:18 |
| jon_y | double arg1; | 06:18 |
| jon_y | double arg2; | 06:18 |
| jon_y | char * arg3; | 06:19 |
| jon_y | { ... begin function ...} | 06:19 |
| jon_y | that sort of madness, today | 06:19 |
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| jon_y | while running gcc-4.5.x | 06:19 |
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| jon_y | also, using %d for floats, breaking the app when it was ported to x86_64 | 06:20 |
| jon_y | I need to reach for some drinks to forget what I saw | 06:21 |
| psycho_oreos | Maybe those devs should be thankful that you're not their boss :D *ducks* | 06:23 |
| psycho_oreos | The ironic thing is that machine programming languages are hardly different from human foreign language. The lesser one uses those newly learnt skills generally equates to rusty knowledge and sloppy aftermath. | 06:25 |
| psycho_oreos | I mean idea-wise. | 06:25 |
| jon_y | psycho_oreos: you're damn right, I'd be labeled as an obstructionist | 06:26 |
| jon_y | C shell script writers shouldn't be allowed anywhere near high level Java or low level C | 06:27 |
| jon_y | not even Perl | 06:27 |
| psycho_oreos | Inevitably its funny to see how people are generally, I recall one of my ex boss was using a computer and he was tapping on the mouse really hard for each click like as if he was indirectly trying to smite the mice (and get rid of his frustration/anger). | 06:28 |
| * psycho_oreos has never heard of C shell script :x | 06:28 | |
| jon_y | psycho_oreos: BSD/HP mainframe era stuff | 06:29 |
| psycho_oreos | Ahh | 06:29 |
| jon_y | CSH and TCSH | 06:29 |
| psycho_oreos | Yup, those names I do recall now. The fancy programmer's shell prompts. | 06:29 |
| jon_y | it is a bitch to write for, all the quirks | 06:29 |
| jon_y | it sucks for scripting, it sucks for batch programming | 06:30 |
| jon_y | generally, even dash/ash/sh wipes the floor with it | 06:30 |
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| jon_y | psycho_oreos: so it tries to be C like in presentation | 06:31 |
| jon_y | it was a lie, not C like, and there is no parser at all | 06:31 |
| psycho_oreos | Speaking of shells, I want to try and change my default shell into zsh (offtopic, not on maemo of course). | 06:32 |
| jon_y | if ( $?somevar) echo $somevar <- this fails when somevar was not defined | 06:32 |
| jon_y | even if you are already checking it | 06:32 |
| jon_y | it must be on 2 different lines | 06:32 |
| psycho_oreos | lol, that's strict C program. Every variable literally has to be defined, whether it be const, char, double, float, etc. | 06:33 |
| psycho_oreos | s/am/aming/ | 06:33 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: lol, that's strict C programing. Every variable literally has to be defined, whether it be const, char, double, float, etc. | 06:33 |
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| psycho_oreos | *facepalms self* programming* | 06:33 |
| jon_y | psycho_oreos: it's worst, $?var is supposed to check if it was set beforehand | 06:33 |
| jon_y | oh right | 06:34 |
| psycho_oreos | jon_y, haha wut. That's messed up. | 06:34 |
| jon_y | all the vars are strings | 06:34 |
| jon_y | no types | 06:34 |
| jon_y | I don't think it supports functions | 06:34 |
| jon_y | "some string \"escape\"" <- this fails | 06:35 |
| jon_y | unmatched " | 06:35 |
| jon_y | some funny things I can't even understand | 06:35 |
| psycho_oreos | Ah, but still C programming requires it to be defined regardless, before that variable could be used. If lets say you were to do a cruel comparison between BASH and maybe say CSH, BASH allows variables to sort of be defined "on-the-fly" so to speak. | 06:35 |
| jon_y | http://www.grymoire.com/Unix/CshTop10.txt | 06:36 |
| jon_y | if(1) != if (1 ) != if ( 1) | 06:36 |
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| jon_y | oh yes, syntax errors like exiting with "unknown action" | 06:37 |
| jon_y | good luck debugging a thousand line script from a 2 word error message | 06:38 |
| Luke-Jr | if you're changing 1000 lines at once, you're doing something wrong -.- | 06:42 |
| jon_y | it was due to if ( !$?var ) | 06:43 |
| jon_y | can't put ! next to $ | 06:43 |
| jon_y | it must be if ( ! $?var ) | 06:43 |
| jon_y | useless debugging message | 06:43 |
| Luke-Jr | hmm, nat64d fails if it's gprs1 :/ | 06:59 |
| jon_y | I never could get nat64d to work | 07:00 |
| jon_y | I understand it is mapping a range of ipv4 address to a /96 space | 07:01 |
| jon_y | but couldn't get the config right | 07:01 |
| Luke-Jr | it has a config? :P | 07:01 |
| Luke-Jr | I think I had to recompile it | 07:01 |
| Luke-Jr | a few times | 07:01 |
| jon_y | yes it has, how else do you set where to map? :) | 07:02 |
| Luke-Jr | IIRC it was hardcoded in the source | 07:02 |
| Luke-Jr | hence my recompiles | 07:02 |
| jon_y | huh, must be a different nat64d | 07:02 |
| Luke-Jr | or older | 07:02 |
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| * brolin_empey wonders if he can successfully use a USB to serial converter or a USB VGA controller with the USB Host capability of Maemo 5. | 09:41 | |
| brolin_empey | With Kermit, I could have a frog in addition to a Python in my pants pocket. ;-) | 09:43 |
| brolin_empey | Would Python try to eat Kermit? :P | 09:44 |
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| Sicelo | yes brolin_empey .. i did use usb <> serial to configure a cisco router with miniom on maemo :) | 09:46 |
| Sicelo | *minicom | 09:47 |
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| brolin_empey | VGA output on a handheld computer would be useful for testing displays before buying them: then I would have one fewer reason of already few reasons to need a notebook computer which is significantly less functional than an original IBM Personal Computer machine type 5150 from 1981. | 09:49 |
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| * brolin_empey still needs to create his comparison of the IBM 5150 desktop computer from 1981 to most models of notebook computers from over 3 decades later. | 09:52 | |
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| brolin_empey | A comparison table of the Apple II desktop computer from 1977 to all models of mobile computers running Apple iOS from at least 3 decades later would be (highly) amusing too. | 09:57 |
| brolin_empey | Apple Inc. is comedy gold to me. | 10:00 |
| Lava_Croft | ps/2 model 55 | 10:00 |
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| brolin_empey | http://toby-lou.tumblr.com/post/56530005774/skype-drawing-with-my-brother-c-tlr-2013 ♡ | 10:31 |
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| kerio | psycho_oreos: why not use pali's battery applet? | 10:56 |
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| brolin_empey | Sicelo: I am now successfully using minicom on Maemo 5 as a serial terminal emulator with ftdi_sio but I forgot that I have to use Ctrl+M instead of just pressing Enter in minicom. | 12:31 |
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| brolin_empey | Sicelo: Next project: USB VGA controller on Maemo 5. | 12:33 |
| Wizzup | regarding minicom | 12:37 |
| Wizzup | use GNU screen | 12:37 |
| Wizzup | screen /dev/ttyUSB0 115200 | 12:37 |
| Wizzup | (etc) | 12:37 |
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| Sicelo | brolin_empey: \o/ | 12:39 |
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| Raimu | kerio: Darn, bmerep has some detection for charging amount versus realtme use and it gives you a yellow banner every 3 minutes. | 13:11 |
| Raimu | "The PC you're charging from doesn't allow for enough power" | 13:12 |
| Raimu | That's nice but I'm on a wall charger that just isn't powerful enough I guess | 13:12 |
| Raimu | I wish I could disable that message. | 13:12 |
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| brolin_empey | Sicelo: Actually, using a composite video to VGA converter seems (much?) easier. | 13:16 |
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| Sicelo | i would guess so brolin_empey. i have no experience at all with usb-vga controllers. never had one | 13:22 |
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| brolin_empey | Sicelo: Judgeing by my quick search on eBay, VGA to composite video converters are small and very low cost but composite to VGA converters are larger and cost much more, which is unsurprising considering converting RGB to composite is much simpler than the reverse. | 13:29 |
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| brolin_empey | Sicelo: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=12051 This post predates the Nokia N900. | 13:36 |
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| Wizzup | brolin_empey: n900 composite -> vga is quite possible, I bought a device that can do it | 13:39 |
| Wizzup | (I got it for my SNES, but yeah) | 13:39 |
| Wizzup | n900 works too | 13:39 |
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| brolin_empey | Wizzup: Which model of converter do you have? | 13:46 |
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| Wizzup | I don't have it here ... :( I can tell you in a few hours | 13:47 |
| brolin_empey | Incidentally, my sleep schedule is b0rk3d Yet Again™. :/ | 13:48 |
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| brolin_empey | Wizzup: OK, I will still be here when you have it. ;-) | 13:49 |
| brolin_empey | Wizzup: Do you know the approximate physical dimensions of the converter? | 13:50 |
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| Wizzup | yes. larger than the n900 for sure | 13:50 |
| Wizzup | also needs external power | 13:50 |
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| brolin_empey | If I want a handheld computer with a proper GNU/Linux distribution using the X Window System, external USB Host capability, and an integrated hardware keyboard, do I even have any alternative to the Nokia N900? | 13:57 |
| kerio | nope | 13:57 |
| kerio | well | 13:57 |
| kerio | you can usually hold laptops with your hands | 13:57 |
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| kerio | does that count? | 13:58 |
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| Wizzup | brolin_empey: pandora? also, I wouldn't count on n900's X and hildon to work well with an external usb video card | 13:59 |
| kerio | oooh right | 13:59 |
| kerio | the openpandora also works | 13:59 |
| Wizzup | expensive though | 14:00 |
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| kerio | it's pretty much a n900 | 14:00 |
| brolin_empey | kerio: No, by “handheld computer” I meant a mobile computer I can easily fit in my pants pocket and which has integrated converged telecommunication capability. I simply refuse to call such a computer a telephone even if I occassionally use it as a mobile telephone. | 14:03 |
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| kerio | meh | 14:05 |
| kerio | buy pants that are large enough | 14:05 |
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| brolin_empey | A Nokia 1011 from 1992 is literally a mobile telephone. A Nokia N900 from 2009 is a mobile computer which can be used as a telephone but is still very useful even without cellular connectivity. | 14:09 |
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| brolin_empey | kerio: I thought the (Open)Pandora lacks integrated converged telecommunication capability? | 14:13 |
| Lava_Croft | pandora lacks design | 14:14 |
| Lava_Croft | fugly thing | 14:14 |
| Lava_Croft | pandora also had no gsm radio | 14:15 |
| Lava_Croft | has* | 14:15 |
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| Wizzup | oh I'm sorry I didn't know how pretty a device is mattered to brolin_empey | 14:23 |
| Lava_Croft | i dont think it matters to him, he didnt say it | 14:24 |
| Lava_Croft | friend of mine has one of those pandora failures | 14:24 |
| Lava_Croft | oh, they did upgrade the hw | 14:25 |
| Lava_Croft | friend still has the 600mhz orso | 14:25 |
| Wizzup | several friends of mine have openpandoras and they are all very happy with it | 14:25 |
| Lava_Croft | so are my friends, which is a good thing | 14:26 |
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| brolin_empey | Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. | 14:37 |
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| Lava_Croft | when you have an openpandora, it sure isnt in your hands | 14:38 |
| Lava_Croft | so the eye of the beholder looks like a good place to search | 14:39 |
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| kerio | lol | 14:45 |
| kerio | the thing is | 14:45 |
| kerio | it's marketed as some sort of handheld console | 14:46 |
| kerio | for emulators | 14:46 |
| Lava_Croft | yeah it shows itself running gta3 | 14:46 |
| kerio | but good emulators require lots of cpu to be accurate | 14:46 |
| Lava_Croft | (lol) | 14:46 |
| Lava_Croft | well, the snes emus etc probably work well enough on the 'new' 1ghz pandora | 14:46 |
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| Lava_Croft | it has a horrible keyboard tho | 14:48 |
| Lava_Croft | buttons feel very bad | 14:48 |
| kerio | bsnes/higan requires 3ghz to run smoothly | 14:48 |
| Lava_Croft | most people dont care for 100% accurate emulation | 14:48 |
| Lava_Croft | because it doesnt really matter | 14:48 |
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| kerio | except when playing speedy gonzales | 14:48 |
| Lava_Croft | good enough is fine for most folks | 14:48 |
| kerio | or star fox (!) | 14:49 |
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| Lava_Croft | lylat wars! | 14:49 |
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| kerio | no, that's starfox 64 | 14:50 |
| Lava_Croft | oh yeah | 14:50 |
| kerio | and that reminds me, i should probably finish it on my n64 | 14:50 |
| Lava_Croft | star fox was the superfx game that everybody was so hyped about | 14:50 |
| Lava_Croft | but that actually was really shitty | 14:50 |
| kerio | i 100%ed the 3ds version | 14:50 |
| Lava_Croft | with horrible graphics | 14:50 |
| kerio | yeah | 14:50 |
| kerio | it used an early version of the superfx chip | 14:51 |
| kerio | it had some problems | 14:51 |
| Lava_Croft | i think i still have the cart | 14:51 |
| Lava_Croft | somewhere | 14:51 |
| kerio | starfox 2 was supposed to be better | 14:51 |
| Lava_Croft | oh yeah now it all comes back | 14:51 |
| Lava_Croft | talking frog | 14:51 |
| kerio | and the beta is actually half finished | 14:51 |
| kerio | but it was scrapped because of the n64 | 14:51 |
| Lava_Croft | i think the only reason it was awesome was because hi 3d graphics on snes | 14:51 |
| kerio | yeah | 14:52 |
| Lava_Croft | i was firlmy PC-nerd anyway | 14:52 |
| Lava_Croft | console games always were lol simple | 14:52 |
| kerio | starfox 64 is unbelievably good | 14:52 |
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| Lava_Croft | i spent 160 dutch guilders on Conker's Bad Fur Day | 14:53 |
| Lava_Croft | then i quit buying Nintendo games | 14:53 |
| kerio | why? | 14:53 |
| Lava_Croft | games for nintendo consoles* | 14:53 |
| kerio | bad fur day was amazing | 14:53 |
| Lava_Croft | because it was an overly expensive game that was overly expensive because at the last moment nintendo decided to not publish it | 14:53 |
| Lava_Croft | the game itself was pretty fun, especially in multiplayer | 14:53 |
| Lava_Croft | kerio: seen the playthrough of Conker's by some of the original devs? | 14:54 |
| Lava_Croft | on youtube | 14:54 |
| kerio | no | 14:54 |
| Lava_Croft | wauw, you should | 14:54 |
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| Lava_Croft | http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFP9r6vJL2qCCERMBP_ZWUEV0vaSL4rHf | 14:54 |
| Lava_Croft | there you go | 14:54 |
| brolin_empey | Real Life™ is a real game. | 14:54 |
| Lava_Croft | NSFW language, but its so awesome | 14:54 |
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| Lava_Croft | also, they are very bad at their own game | 14:55 |
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| brolin_empey | http://choualbox.com/Img/20130220160021W.jpg :P | 14:58 |
| Lava_Croft | kerio: also a small story in there about the N64 expansion pack | 14:58 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 14:58 |
| Lava_Croft | in relation to DK64 bug | 14:58 |
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| kerio | anyway, MAME also takes ton of cpu | 15:00 |
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| kerio | *tons | 15:00 |
| Lava_Croft | I dont think I've ever seen a European care about MAME | 15:00 |
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| kerio | which makes it kinda useless on the n900, sadly :( | 15:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | pandora? HAH! Raster and me approached them about a custom build with GSM radio, in whatever form of cooperation. They were not interested, and we came to think they were not interested to ever produce real hw | 15:09 |
| Lava_Croft | seeing how openmoko is dead and pandora is not (yet), maybe not a bad decision | 15:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (([2013-07-28 13:09:40] <brolin_empey> [...] A Nokia N900 from 2009 is a mobile computer which can be used as a telephone ...)) Which is pretty much what Nokia told us in their advertisments around 2008/2009, no? | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and.... good (UGT) morning! | 15:13 |
| SAiF | good (UGT) morning Doc | 15:14 |
| Lava_Croft | good afternoon | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Lava_Croft: you're mixing up things. Raster alias carsten haitzler never said he's openmoko | 15:14 |
| Lava_Croft | thats not what i said either | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what sense makes your statement? | 15:14 |
| Lava_Croft | i just imagine that adding gsm radios adds a host of work and design they might not want to undertake, given the experience of openmoko | 15:14 |
| Lava_Croft | and it might not really make the pandora a better device | 15:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, well. No it doesn't, actually | 15:15 |
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| Lava_Croft | i imagine that the pandora guys have rather limited funds etc | 15:15 |
| Lava_Croft | if they had good funds, they would have hired a proper designer | 15:15 |
| * Lava_Croft chuckles a bit lame | 15:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | adding a module is utterly lightweight, from an engineering perspective | 15:15 |
| Lava_Croft | it will add work on hardware, software, maybe certification of some sort | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and we just asked if they'd be interested when we use their desin to improve on it and add some phone functionality. No expense of any kind on their side, first instance | 15:16 |
| Lava_Croft | and maybe they looked at Nokia and saw the trouble that even Nokia had in producing a device with proper hardware quality | 15:16 |
| Lava_Croft | (maemo devices) | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just an opportunity to earn royalties | 15:17 |
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| Lava_Croft | oh, by the way | 15:20 |
| Lava_Croft | Darkplaces no run on N900 | 15:20 |
| Lava_Croft | at least not satisfactory | 15:20 |
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| Vibe | hi | 15:26 |
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| Vibe | my gps doesn't work, what's correct location server? | 15:27 |
| Lava_Croft | supl.nokia.com or supl.google.com | 15:27 |
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| Vibe | I think that nokias one doesn't work anymore | 15:27 |
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| Vibe | ok, thx, I try googles server | 15:31 |
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| Vibe | how I can see gps info? like speed? | 15:34 |
| Vibe | i see just map | 15:35 |
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| Lava_Croft | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/g/gpsjinni/ | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | try location test app | 15:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's basically a must to deal with N900 GPS | 15:37 |
| Vibe | app manager is loading.. takes ages | 15:37 |
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| Vibe | cant there be done improvement so loading doesnt take ages? :p | 15:38 |
| Vibe | like cssu | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HAM sources are free, go ahead! | 15:39 |
| Vibe | hehe | 15:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | oh FSCK, not this Konversation hickup again!! | 15:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry OT | 15:42 |
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| Vibe | installing gpsjinni | 15:42 |
| Sicelo | none of the supl servers are working on N900 now fwiw | 15:43 |
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| Vibe | gpsjinni is good, thx Lava_Croft | 15:46 |
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| LjL | just in case i've missed some key page on Google - it's not possible to wifi tether in AP (infrastructure) mode on the N900, is it? | 15:54 |
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| kerio | afaik there's no way to do hostAP on the n900's wifi | 15:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~weather EDDN | 17:35 |
| infobot | Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2013.07.28 1420 UTC; Dew Point: 57 F (14 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.85 in. Hg (1011 hPa); Relative Humidity: 30%; Temperature: 93 F (34 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the SE (130 degrees) at 2 MPH (2 KT) | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | +3 downtown penalty | 17:35 |
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| LjL | DocScrutinizer05: 35.5 here, a pretty horrid couple of days | 18:06 |
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| drathir | n900 have thermal security sensors? | 18:08 |
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| LjL | drathir: it certainly has at least one thermometer | 18:12 |
| drathir | but shutdown device when overheat? | 18:12 |
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| drathir | Temperature : 35 C | 18:14 |
| drathir | in the air | 18:14 |
| drathir | after night and chaging device was little hot maybe was to little covered but now temp back to normal state, but i think about if temp will to high, the phone auto shutdown? | 18:17 |
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| drathir | btw yea thunderstorm should come 300km distance temp is Temperature : 26 C | 18:19 |
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| NeutrinoPower | who used rescueOS? where do I get initrd.img ? | 18:31 |
| NeutrinoPower | http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/documentation.txt for flasher-3.5 -k 2.6.37 -n initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay root=/dev/ram0" | 18:31 |
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| kerio | initrd.img is rescueOS-1.1.img | 18:32 |
| NeutrinoPower | ah, I had just the same idea :D | 18:33 |
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| NeutrinoPower | "Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy" :-( | 18:51 |
| NeutrinoPower | I have aur/flasher 3.5_2.5.2.2-2 | 18:52 |
| NIN101 | you must be root | 18:54 |
| NeutrinoPower | yes | 18:54 |
| NeutrinoPower | and i must hold "u" on N900 while switch on? | 18:56 |
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| Lava_Croft | hold u while inserting the USB cable | 18:57 |
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| NeutrinoPower | then this happens: "USB device found found at bus 002, device address 045. Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy" | 19:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | drathir: yes, afaik dsme has thermal management and will shutdown on overtemperature | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NeutrinoPower: blacklist phonet! | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | general advice at | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~flashing | 19:12 |
| infobot | it has been said that maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | applies | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while you're not programming your flash stroage on N900, the procedure is identical on PC side | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so are the caveats | 19:14 |
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| NeutrinoPower | YES! it works | 19:22 |
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| LjL | heh, Cyanogen is having a Google+ discussion about dropping the ability to have root on Android, and so many people are like "sure, why would i ever need it, i'm not an adblocker or a criminal" (<- parody)... wait i said "heh"? i meant "meh". i guess this is why i just bought an N900 even though i had no reason to ;( | 19:44 |
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| Raimu | Why are they entertaining the idea? | 19:46 |
| Raimu | To protet the dumb user? | 19:47 |
| Raimu | *protect, from themselves | 19:47 |
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| LjL | Raimu: well, it's not very clear from the G+ thread, and i haven't read other sources yet - but my understanding is that Android itself (version 4.3) is in the process of integrating SELinux and losing the concept that as long as you're root, you can do anything, so Cyanogen is wondering whether CM should stick to that concept, or break it. specifically, he wants to know "what people use root for", so he can provide alternate ways to do it without root ( | 19:49 |
| LjL | additional CM-specific capabilities?) instead | 19:49 |
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| Raimu | Oh, OK. I'm not very knowledgeable on where Android is heading. | 19:54 |
| Raimu | Is the SElinux change something like an attempt at clamping down on user abilities to do more than Google sanctions? | 19:56 |
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| LjL | Raimu: well i wouldn't know, i suspect there might be a bit of genuine security concern (especially in the wake of a couple big exploits on Android), and a bit of "clamping down". i don't know what exactly they're planning and doing, i should read up. but, it's certainly true that the current Android permission model is very weak... it basically gives you a list of things an app can do (and it's very easy for apps to list "everything" and assume the user won't | 20:11 |
| LjL | care), plus some degree of isolation among apps | 20:12 |
| LjL | that's not a stellar security system | 20:12 |
| LjL | Maemo doesn't even have that, afaik, but then Maemo's app are mostly open source things | 20:12 |
| ecc2g | security or liberty, which do you want. | 20:13 |
| Raimu | LjL: Heh, yeah, Chrome has the same list. | 20:13 |
| Raimu | And some apps just make it some point of honour to keep using more and more of them even though they're off the scope of what the apps should do. | 20:14 |
| LjL | ecc2g: i don't buy that they're incompatible | 20:14 |
| LjL | Raimu: yeah. | 20:14 |
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| ecc2g | or inconvenience. that's the third option. | 20:14 |
| LjL | maybe i'm the only one, but i didn't mind how Symbian actually asked me every time an app wanted to use data, unless i gave a "sticky" go-ahead | 20:15 |
| ecc2g | I don't actually trust the symbian model. | 20:16 |
| LjL | ecc2g: i don't like the Symbian model in general, those "signed capabilities" are something i can *definitely* live without, i was just talking specifically about the concept of *asking* you about doing things | 20:17 |
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| LjL | Android is like, "here's what i can and possibly will do, if you're not ok with that, don't install". that seems way too black and white. fortunately with CyanogenMod, i can also *deny* some capabilities, but then apps start crashing | 20:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's kind of depressing that 5 of the top 6 calculators on Play have all the permissions they need to wake up at 3AM and start scanning your network and reporting back what they find to china. | 20:19 |
| LjL | heh :( | 20:19 |
| ecc2g | ouch. | 20:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - sure - they probably just 'legitimately' use that permission to show you ads. | 20:20 |
| SpeedEvil | But... | 20:20 |
| ecc2g | Unfortunately it sounds like you have to get rid of Linux to have these fine grain controls over apps | 20:20 |
| LjL | SpeedEvil: and yeah, another factoid with Android is how applications can mostly freely schedule themselves to be started up at any time, so when you add that to wildcard-capabilities... | 20:20 |
| LjL | ecc2g: nah | 20:20 |
| ecc2g | either you VM these things or no Linux | 20:21 |
| LjL | ecc2g: well, Android VMs them | 20:21 |
| ecc2g | because binaries can always do ioctls directly to the kernel | 20:21 |
| LjL | ecc2g: but Android just stops short of actually *letting you control* them | 20:21 |
| LjL | ecc2g: hm, what about SELinux then | 20:21 |
| LjL | (which, apparently, Android is going to start using) | 20:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | ecc2g: You don't quite have to get rid of linux. You have to have a deeply well thought out permissions system with more than normal linuxy permissions. | 20:23 |
| SpeedEvil | ecc2g: And someone actually vetting these permissions at least to some degree. | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | 'No, you're a calculator, you don't say anything about why you might need to use the mic - denied'. | 20:24 |
| ecc2g | either way if an app starts ioctling to the kernel somehow a hook needs to go to the GUI to allow it or not... | 20:24 |
| LjL | SpeedEvil: yeah, i think that can easily enough be the user though, perhaps contrary to current trends | 20:24 |
| ecc2g | this interface is very klunky - and is a convenience issue | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Or it's just flat denied. | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Aegis had in principle the right technology to a large degree - but the wrong policy. | 20:25 |
| LjL | ecc2g: ah yeah, i remember reading how adding a "feedback" thing in Linux was difficult (i read that about firewalls, but i guess it goes for most things) | 20:25 |
| SpeedEvil | If it was possible to add other community 'stores' with the same permissions as nokia, few people would have had much issue with aegis. | 20:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | ^legitimately | 20:25 |
| ecc2g | the kernel will happily report these things but basically have to go to a completely new api. | 20:25 |
| LjL | SpeedEvil: i don't know/remember what Aegis is, where they the ones who handled Symbian capabilities? | 20:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | Aegis was a wrapper around many normal system attributes. It did fancy parsing of sourcecode at compile time to generate a permission list for the binary. | 20:26 |
| Raimu | http://i.imgur.com/HuGr8On.jpg #offtopic #someonewaitedforthis | 20:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Those permissions were the only ones the binary had - if it tried to do other things it got an error. | 20:27 |
| ecc2g | then there's the case where you allow it, and then change your mind later... but the damage is already done... | 20:28 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a sane and sensible approach - but only if the user has some means to bypass it. | 20:28 |
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| LjL | SpeedEvil: uhm, i don't understand - i fail to see the use of that. it lets you generate a "manifest" (in Android terms) automatically based on source, and then you can be sure the binary won't do things the source didn't mention, but how's that different from just having someone trusted compile it? | 20:29 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, ideally shut off individual capabilities. | 20:29 |
| SpeedEvil | LjL: No - even if the binary does unexpected calls - they don't work. | 20:29 |
| LjL | SpeedEvil: yeah | 20:30 |
| ecc2g | this problem isn't new...it still boggles me why is this such a big problem now, it has been this way ever since binaries were distributed... | 20:30 |
| SpeedEvil | So in principle - in the event of stack smashing or other bugs in the binary - it can't be exploited | 20:30 |
| LjL | SpeedEvil: but that's the same in Android, if your binary tries to do something it didn't declare a permission for in the Manifest, then the call fails. only difference compared to what you described is, the developer has to list the permissions manually in the Manifest, they're not "guessed" from the source code, but that doesn't seem a big deal to me unless i'm missing something | 20:30 |
| LjL | SpeedEvil: ah, so that was the goal, i see | 20:31 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a problem now as people install lots more apps typically, with lots less review, and no payment. | 20:31 |
| ecc2g | also if you have fine control on ever call, it is a performance hit | 20:31 |
| ecc2g | s/ever/every/ | 20:31 |
| infobot | ecc2g meant: also if you have fine control on every call, it is a performance hit | 20:31 |
| SpeedEvil | No payment up front. | 20:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Whereas the app authors expect payment from ads. | 20:31 |
| SpeedEvil | This tends to lead to privacy violations, amongst other things, and apps that are hard to tell from malicious ones. | 20:32 |
| LjL | i've been trying to use as many open-source apps as possible on Android lately, and only get them from F-Droid | 20:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Then there is security/convenience tradeoffs. | 20:33 |
| SpeedEvil | For example 'hotspot shield'. | 20:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Yes - you make yourself secure to the local network even if it's unencrypted - for the cost of giving a third party all of your traffic | 20:34 |
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| LjL | that doesn't sound like a wholly wonderful idea :P | 20:36 |
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| LjL | uhm, stuff about SELinux as it's being deployed on Android can be read at http://selinuxproject.org/page/SEAndroid and https://source.android.com/devices/tech/security/se-linux.html but i honestly understand little of the mumbo jumbo. seems to me like they're doing the usual "Android 'itself' is very permissive, then hey, if manufacturers want to use the tools we provide to lock your system down..." stunt, but i am a pessimist | 20:56 |
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| XATRIX | Hi, i have very dark video during skype video call | 22:14 |
| XATRIX | Any possible idea, how can i fix it ? | 22:14 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: ssh tunnel to a trusted server? | 22:15 |
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| Sicelo | XATRIX: not much you can do.. althoughfrom my reading, it appear that the front cam is actually better on skype than with XMPP, for example. you just have to use your N900 where lighting is good. | 22:35 |
| Sicelo | s/ghfr/gh fr/ | 22:35 |
| infobot | Sicelo meant: XATRIX: not much you can do.. although from my reading, it appear that the front cam is actually better on skype than with XMPP, for example. you just have to use your N900 where lighting is good. | 22:35 |
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| XATRIX | :) | 22:40 |
| XATRIX | so there's no way to fix the exposition ? | 22:41 |
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| Sicelo | skype is closed source first of all :P | 22:41 |
| XATRIX | yea | 22:42 |
| XATRIX | but i meant, the kernel module | 22:42 |
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| Sicelo | you can play with the 'raw' camera using mplayer or gstreamer tweaks, but it's still terrible. | 22:42 |
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| XATRIX | ok, will try to | 22:44 |
| XATRIX | thank! | 22:44 |
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