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| rlinfati | DocScrutinizer51, hey, the extras-devel repository has some md5/sha1sum checksum error , see https://pastee.org/9u47z | 01:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: ^^^ | 01:30 |
| FIQ|n900 | hmm | 01:34 |
| FIQ|n900 | I've used a N900 for umm | 01:34 |
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| FIQ|n900 | when was it released? | 01:35 |
| FIQ|n900 | end of 2010 or something like that, wasn't it? | 01:35 |
| FIQ|n900 | oh wait | 01:37 |
| FIQ|n900 | it was 2009 | 01:37 |
| FIQ|n900 | omg | 01:37 |
| FIQ|n900 | I've used this thing for over three years | 01:37 |
| FIQ|n900 | that's crazy lol | 01:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you know what's crazy? that you can't get repair for those devices after actually only 2 years | 03:26 |
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| Lava_Croft | you couldnt get repairs before those 2 years | 03:34 |
| Lava_Croft | only replacements | 03:34 |
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| psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, ping | 03:54 |
| FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: pong | 03:58 |
| HtheB | tilt | 03:59 |
| psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, I can't quite see any reasons why /opt/python would fail. Though that last link you posted contains fair bit of private info :) | 03:59 |
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| FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: mhm? | 04:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | looked at it a little before pasting | 04:02 |
| FIQ|n900 | didn't see anything critical though perhaps I missed something | 04:02 |
| psycho_oreos | Somehow I don't think failed mounts (particularly at bind mounts) would be shown via syslog. | 04:03 |
| FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: and DocScrutinizer05 asked about a syslog dump earlier and I assumed it didn't contain anything critical by that | 04:03 |
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| FIQ|n900 | private info how exactly? | 04:04 |
| psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, no doubt he did though to this point I believe it was to tell you that we basically needed a lot more information when MH was only partially working. I can't see any information about python issues in syslog personally. | 04:05 |
| FIQ|n900 | ok | 04:05 |
| psycho_oreos | Your IMEI is visible. There's a few other interesting but not exactly private info, such as your bootup video, your (failed) desktop wallpaper preferences (the images probably failed), and your WAP info. | 04:06 |
| FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05 mentioned something about a potential bug where python bindmounts would fail if a fsck was ran on the partition | 04:06 |
| FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: ok | 04:06 |
| FIQ|n900 | my desktop wallpaper is fully intended to not show up | 04:07 |
| FIQ|n900 | I don't care about boot video information | 04:07 |
| FIQ|n900 | IMEI is a bit more critical though :p | 04:07 |
| FIQ|n900 | good to know... | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ|n900: that been wild speculations | 04:07 |
| FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: ok | 04:08 |
| psycho_oreos | Yeah but I think the underlying fault would be to do with /home /opt being the main premise. If that were to occur, /home and /opt would not be mounted imo. | 04:08 |
| FIQ|n900 | "your WAP info" i.e. apn info? | 04:08 |
| FIQ|n900 | isn't this just telling what my operator is? because that's not something I would consider private | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I said in theory the patch to fstab in CSSU-T might have changed the timing of bindmounts, so in ever farther fetched theory, a python command could run and fail during that time where now python bindmounts are not done while formerly they were | 04:09 |
| FIQ|n900 | allthough perhaps it was silly by me to paste the entire syslog, I dunno | 04:09 |
| psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, no not your wallpaper.. I'll give you a bit of info: hildon-desktop[1149]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Error loading cached background image /home/user/.backgrounds/background-6.***. Misslyckades med att öppna filen "/home/user/.backgrounds/background-6.***": No such file or directory | 04:10 |
| psycho_oreos | Yeah APN info, and your IP address, etc was also visible. Also your SMS centre number. | 04:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | should be intended @ background failing | 04:11 |
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| FredrIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: regarding desktop background - since I installed cssu, I've walked into desktop settings and removed all desktop views except for number #5 which gave a completely black background as the image was only adjusted for 4 | 04:15 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | not really what the thing was intended for, but meh :p | 04:15 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | perhaps that's something else though | 04:15 |
| * psycho_oreos is still quite stumped at the issue. So nothing exists in those binded mounts? and those mounts for python doesn't exist meaning that maybe they're not in fstab or something? | 04:15 | |
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| FredrIQ|n900 | but they are | 04:16 |
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| FredrIQ|n900 | issuing "mount" fixes the issue | 04:16 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: well obviously I didn't realize that the info was quite critical but oh well, can't undo it now :P | 04:16 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | and it wasn't too bad, could have been worse lol | 04:16 |
| psycho_oreos | FredrIQ|n900, ahh though it goes from 6-9 with that error so yeah. Again not really private info but was somewhat interesting to see (I mean from the perspective of another user with 9 home screens) :D | 04:17 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | :P | 04:17 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | I don't use the desktop at all | 04:17 |
| psycho_oreos | FredrIQ|n900, *nods* oh well you learnt something ;) not that I care about all the private info anyway. | 04:17 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | that's why I wanted no (or black) bg | 04:18 |
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| psycho_oreos | issuing "mount" fixes issue.. wait.. by mount as in just "mount" with no args? by default "mount" with no args just lists the mounted fs. | 04:18 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: yes, I found this quite strange that it did fix the issue... | 04:19 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | perhaps it was a coincidence but, mounting being that delayed (startup, attempting mh and failing, firing up terminal) doesn't make any sense... | 04:19 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | sec | 04:20 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | k | 04:20 |
| psycho_oreos | FredrIQ|n900, I somehow don't think its actually coincidential. If you have something like cpumem-applet installed you might be able to see if N900 was still busy loading up or not. | 04:20 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | (tried to fire up MH to see if the error was apparent right now to be able to debug more, but MH worked fine) | 04:20 |
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| FredrIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: hmm ok | 04:21 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | well I'll try to look into it a little next time it fails | 04:21 |
| psycho_oreos | FredrIQ|n900, also install useful applet like the one I mentioned :) its priceless for power-users imho. | 04:22 |
| psycho_oreos | There were some notable warnings from dbus within that syslog and then later on issues with ISI_SMS. Whether or not do they play a part in making the device seem sluggish and/or to make "mount" command itself coincidentally fixes up issues with python is a bit beyond me. Though it is probably notable that I'm guessing there are commands/things that the device has to do, the "mount" command itself can't quite possibly automagically mount all the pyt | 04:26 |
| psycho_oreos | hon binding mounts. It simply just doesn't add up imo | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I weird idea: umount those python bindmounts and *then* check what's inside the mountpoint dirs | 04:27 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: indeed it didn't make any sense | 04:27 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: well I did that indirectly before, didn't I? | 04:28 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | they was empty | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | didn't follow the details | 04:28 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | I guess I can check after umounting manually though | 04:28 |
| psycho_oreos | FredrIQ|n900, its not like the optification somehow automagically hacked the "mount" binary to mount any unmounted stuff needed for python. Another possibility is I/O lag, lag from within the data throughput that is causing the python mounts to not come up instantaneously. | 04:29 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: indeed - it doesn't make any sense | 04:31 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | so perhaps it just was a coincidence | 04:31 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm still willing to place my money it isn't a random artifact, there has to be a meaningful explanation. | 04:32 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | also, checked directories after umounting - empty | 04:33 |
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| FredrIQ|n900 | also tried to issue "mount" - and it did not do anything funny (as expected) | 04:33 |
| FredrIQ|n900 | so it seems to have been a coincidence then | 04:33 |
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| psycho_oreos | When for the first time you issued that "mount" command, was there any sort of lag? even if it was just a mere 1 second lag? | 04:34 |
| FIQ|n900 | not that I recall | 04:35 |
| psycho_oreos | Hmm :/ | 04:35 |
| FIQ|n900 | but it's possible that, after my check of directories finding them empty, that I timed the mount command right after they were mounted | 04:36 |
| FIQ|n900 | which would produce such behaviour | 04:36 |
| FIQ|n900 | btw what's isi_sms? | 04:36 |
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| psycho_oreos | Was it at the time when you checked it was empty, the device was still booting up? | 04:37 |
| psycho_oreos | Not particularly sure, its something to do with text messages lol. | 04:38 |
| psycho_oreos | Or rather I guess its something to do with text messages :x | 04:38 |
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| FIQ|n900 | sounds as a legit guess given "(...)sms" | 04:40 |
| psycho_oreos | I know there was some guy playing with things like that before, he was the one that got the cell info to work with cssu. I can't recall his handle anymore :/ | 04:41 |
| FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: I booted up, entered pin, (tried to) start MH and failing, immediately fire up the terminal and checked if the error was the usual, and then tried to do similar debugging steps as done last time when talking in here | 04:41 |
| psycho_oreos | Apparently the stuff he was playing also started with ISI, so he might have a clue with ISI might stand for. | 04:41 |
| FIQ|n900 | including setting PYTHONHOME (which didn't help at all), checking directories (which were empty) and then checking mounts with "mount" | 04:42 |
| FIQ|n900 | and you know the rest | 04:42 |
| psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, from between after entering the pin correctly to starting MH, how many seconds did you wait? | 04:42 |
| FIQ|n900 | the device lags slightly at first when booted so I usually wait half a minute before doing anything | 04:43 |
| FIQ|n900 | which was the case here too | 04:43 |
| psycho_oreos | Yeah, I was thinking you didn't give the device anytime to finish loading up properly hence that could be the reason why its still loading hence failed. Then again without cpumem-applet its hard to rule that out. | 04:44 |
| FIQ|n900 | well | 04:45 |
| FIQ|n900 | I have that thing now | 04:45 |
| FIQ|n900 | and if this happens again | 04:45 |
| FIQ|n900 | (and given previous experience - it will) | 04:45 |
| FIQ|n900 | I might try simply waiting | 04:45 |
| FIQ|n900 | before doing stuff | 04:45 |
| psycho_oreos | Hopefully it won't be just a coincidence with a simple "mount" command :) I'm just really not willing to rest it on pure random "luck" factor. | 04:46 |
| FIQ|n900 | but my assumption was that mounts was taken care of way before hildon even starts up... | 04:46 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm not sure, the proper (normal) fs mounts are done well beforehand.. notably the binding mounts were done afterwards and even with python. | 04:46 |
| FIQ|n900 | ok | 04:47 |
| psycho_oreos | I just found the upstart script, it starts after loading rcS-late. | 04:50 |
| FIQ|n900 | it says in /etc/fstab that it's generated by rc--late | 04:51 |
| FIQ|n900 | fstab that is | 04:51 |
| FIQ|n900 | *rcS-late | 04:51 |
| psycho_oreos | /etc/event.d/rcS-late starts after hal is fully started. The contents shows that it mounts home dir. | 04:52 |
| psycho_oreos | Correction, home, MyDocs and swap. | 04:53 |
| psycho_oreos | In other words the script pymaemo-optify should have started quite early. | 04:54 |
| psycho_oreos | Hmm, I think I recall the guy who tinkered with cell tower info. | 05:01 |
| psycho_oreos | s/ll/lled/ | 05:01 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: Hmm, I think I recalled the guy who tinkered with cell tower info. | 05:01 |
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| DrCode | hi all | 07:48 |
| DrCode | is there feedly like in meamo? | 07:48 |
| DrCode | I also looking for google+ client , any idea? | 07:48 |
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| FIQ | interesting | 09:43 |
| FIQ | just got the same issue again - this time I simply waited, issuing "df -h" every now andd then to see what happened and if it would fix itself | 09:44 |
| FIQ | and indeed - after 2 minutes of waiting - python bindmounts was done | 09:44 |
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| FIQ | and the cpumem-appled showed no significant load at all | 09:44 |
| FIQ | that's a pretty long wait IMO, but at least it does do its' job if you're patient | 09:45 |
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| psycho_oreos | Yeah I usually wait around a minute or two after bootup before doing anything with my N900. | 09:52 |
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| DrCode | hi all | 11:30 |
| DrCode | is there appliction like feedly? | 11:30 |
| DrCode | I love to get update to my rss | 11:30 |
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| Lava_Croft | 11:59 | |
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| Lava_Croft | moro | 12:28 |
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| japa-fi | moro | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hey psycho_oreos FIQ | 12:32 |
| FIQ | hi | 12:32 |
| psycho_oreos | hi DocScrutinizer05 | 12:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I now finally think I have a nice explanation | 12:33 |
| psycho_oreos | For that python issue? | 12:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | didn't you say you installed some huge map data or whatever, FIQ? | 12:33 |
| FIQ | I installed what? | 12:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not? | 12:34 |
| FIQ | map data.. I don't use ovi maps or any equavilent on maemo | 12:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 12:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, thought I had a story | 12:34 |
| FIQ | (there's 2 reasons to that actually, 1 I don't need it, 2 my GPS seems broken, possibly caused by me feeding my N900 once) | 12:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah wait, you rstored | 12:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also huge data written to ext3 | 12:35 |
| FIQ | I restored the optfs yes, BUT | 12:35 |
| * psycho_oreos is reminded he needs to redo up that entire world map data again, after 30+ times in fsck.ext3 rendered the majority of the map data corrupted. | 12:35 | |
| FIQ | the issue existed before that as wel | 12:35 |
| FIQ | *well | 12:35 |
| FIQ | just that I never bothered to actually look into it | 12:35 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: I'm still interested to hear your theory though | 12:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway my story goes like this: ext3 is a journalling fs, and on mount the journal gets replayed, which can take ages depending on size. and all that won't show up in cpu-load-applet since kernel stuff | 12:37 |
| FIQ | perhaps | 12:37 |
| FIQ | would there be a solution to that? | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, clean umounts | 12:38 |
| FIQ | but this issue, wouldn't it cause a significant delay at the initial mount but not otherwise? | 12:38 |
| FIQ | i.e. the mount of the /opt partition, not the bindmounts | 12:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 12:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's right I *guess* | 12:39 |
| psycho_oreos | Binding mounts doesn't really require replaying journal because binding mounts aren't real mounts imo. | 12:39 |
| FIQ | btw I wonder another thing regarding fsck | 12:39 |
| FIQ | as you're aware, fsck completely messed up the partition earlier | 12:39 |
| FIQ | and fsck blamed on a mounted partition | 12:40 |
| FIQ | allthough this isn't *really* relevant atm, I wonder what caused it in first place | 12:40 |
| FIQ | I wonder if this is due to the drive being a flash drive? | 12:40 |
| FIQ | afaik things aren't written the order they're issued | 12:40 |
| FIQ | and thus, fsck's actions would get messed up | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on a less tired-flawed think a fsck on a mounted partition is *always* an idiotic thing to do, sorry for suggesting it | 12:42 |
| FIQ | I didn't do that | 12:42 |
| FIQ | as I said yesterday, I fsck-ed in the BM root terminal | 12:42 |
| FIQ | and in this environment, mmcblk0p2 isn't mounted | 12:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that should work | 12:43 |
| FIQ | yet, fsck said "WARNING: BUG IN E2FSCK, OR SOME BONEHEAD (YOU) IS CHECKING A MOUNTED PARTITION" | 12:43 |
| FIQ | (or whatever the exact error message is) | 12:43 |
| FIQ | I halted execution of the fsck once it said that, and verified it wasn't mounted | 12:43 |
| FIQ | and indeed it wasn't | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I encountered similr problem years ago, something odd with this stuff | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fsck has different sources to get info about mounted state. sometimes these sources get out of sync | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | e.g mount and /proc/mounts | 12:44 |
| FIQ | basically, what I asked was if the inconsistency was caused by the drive being a flash drive | 12:44 |
| FIQ | as I assumed fsck did that assumption because things changed in unexpected ways | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, I think it's a falw in maemo or in fsck | 12:45 |
| FIQ | ok | 12:45 |
| XATRIX | Hi, i still have the same problem :) I found that tech spec says the standby time should be within: 12.0 days (288 hours) , and talk time: 6.30 hours | 12:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might be related to kernel renaming /dev/mmcblk0 to mmcblk1 | 12:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and vice versa | 12:46 |
| XATRIX | As long as i see, my handset lasts over 24 h. Mixed time, talk/standby. So the max standby time is over 2 days | 12:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: *UP TO...* | 12:47 |
| XATRIX | How can i check/improve my system | 12:47 |
| FIQ | interesting fact: earlier I had a corrupted FAT (MyDocs) - this issue was even worse to begin with, but fsck managed to solve all issues just fine - and yet it failed miserably on a much less corrupted FS (the fat partition had a lot of issues, optfs had 4 corrupted files and some index issue somewhere, as seen by fsck -nv before) | 12:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | move closer to BTS | 12:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | get your own BTS | 12:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't allow any inbound anf for sure no outbound traffic | 12:48 |
| XATRIX | BTS ? | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | increst T3212 timer to insanely high values | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bts | 12:48 |
| infobot | hmm... bts is Please check the Debian bug tracking system at http://bugs.debian.org before reporting bugs in testing or sid -- it's more likely to help you than IRC users are. If you don't find your issue please consider reporting it. | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~useless | 12:48 |
| * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer05 in the darkest corner of the room. :( | 12:48 | |
| FIQ | base station? | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | base transmitter station | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also called cell tower | 12:49 |
| FIQ | ah transmitter was the 2nd word | 12:49 |
| XATRIX | :) | 12:49 |
| XATRIX | You really think that it is possible ? | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure!! | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at 27C3 and at chaos communication congress we had our very own BTS ;-D | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks to Harald Welte, Zecke, and other guys of osmocom | 12:50 |
| FIQ | is setting up a private bts even legal? | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not without a permission | 12:51 |
| FIQ | afaik, at least in my country, you need a permission from the operator | 12:51 |
| psycho_oreos | There are possible tune up tips to maximise battery usage such as probably using the lowest setting for backlight, having the screen timeout (screen turns off) helps. Also don't have too many background tasks running. I'm not sure if autodisconnect is recommended still but that is a nifty thing to have when setup correctly. | 12:51 |
| FIQ | to verify that the equipment wont have the opposite issue and make signal worse instead (for you, and others in close range) | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you definitely need a permission, dunno if from operatior or some institution | 12:51 |
| psycho_oreos | Even worse you could also abuse that BTS priviledge by doing MITM evesdropping ;) | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we got a lab test permission for one channel for a small area for a week or two | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | was only a few 100 bucks | 12:52 |
| FIQ | "only" | 12:53 |
| FIQ | "a week or two" | 12:53 |
| FIQ | yeah that's nothing | 12:53 |
| FIQ | *"only a few 100 bucks" | 12:53 |
| psycho_oreos | I don't think its to just benefit them, the license to use certain bands are regulated by government or at least federal agencies. | 12:54 |
| psycho_oreos | Those licenses aren't cheap. | 12:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: I just tell you how those standby upper limits get evaluated by manufacturers | 12:55 |
| FIQ | true | 12:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's as fake as the L/100km (miles / gallon, for our imperial friends) | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you never can reach that | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and actually I'm talking to XATRIX | 12:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 12:57 |
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| XATRIX | I'm in the center of our capital :( | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: when your device sits idle, with no APN configured (GSM "offline"), and no WLAN, just listening to BTS for inbound calls, you still might encounter bad luck and your device is at the boundary line between two BTS of different local-area(-codes), and does a cell reselection every minute due to natural fluctuations in signal strength from both BTS | 13:00 |
| DrCode | sorry | 13:01 |
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| DrCode | hi dockane_ | 13:01 |
| DrCode | DocScrutinizer05, what up | 13:01 |
| XATRIX | Hm | 13:01 |
| DrCode | I am looking for feedly like in maemo | 13:01 |
| DrCode | any idea? | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and in center of a capital cell diameters are particularly small, often only a few 100m | 13:01 |
| XATRIX | But why does it try to reassign the BTS station if there already is a good qual. link between ? | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DrCode: sorry, nope | 13:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~pkg | 13:02 |
| infobot | i guess pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ | 13:02 |
| DrCode | and google+ ? | 13:02 |
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| DrCode | ok | 13:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: google for GSM C1 C2 cell handover criterion | 13:03 |
| XATRIX | :( C1 and C2 is a sleep states of the CPU ? | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: it doesn't matter how good the signal is in absolute dB, it's just the question if neighbour cell is C1/2 dB better than serving cell | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BTS will tell mobile about the C1/2 threshold | 13:05 |
| XATRIX | Even if this 'better' cell is from another provider ? | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cell reselection / handover is not a simple thing | 13:05 |
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| DrCode | when I am in terminal or in xchat its very small, can I zoom it or somthing? | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: obviously not | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: that's called roaming then and happens only when zero own cells are available to mobile | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DrCode: in xterm it's simple: use volume keys | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in xchat you need to select huger font in settings | 13:07 |
| DrCode | wow , ok , thankyou | 13:08 |
| DrCode | I have my mobile only 3 days and Its defiantly the best phone I had | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, n900 defiantly refuses to die | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 13:09 |
| XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05: what device are you using ? :) != n900? | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | n900, what else | 13:10 |
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| DrCode | amazing | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess when I would switch to sth else before I used up my 6 working N900, some troll will pop up and beat me to death with a bag of chips and other smd components | 13:12 |
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| DrCode | I am using Mail for exchange for work mail and Imap for gmail , I am using eminnig-ng to sync gmail clander | 13:15 |
| DrCode | but I didn't found way to sync contact to gmail | 13:15 |
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| DrCode | MFE have only one account | 13:15 |
| DrCode | also is it possible to save my contact into SIM? | 13:15 |
| DrCode | or better to leave it in gmail? | 13:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 13:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you only can import from SIM | 13:16 |
| DrCode | ok | 13:16 |
| DrCode | how can I sync my contact to gmail? | 13:16 |
| DrCode | I use Mail For Eschange to download all my contact to maemo | 13:16 |
| DrCode | then I delete this account and connect to my work mail | 13:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think there are simple ways to sync to google contacts (and I'm kinda happy about that, since it increases the chances that my contact data will not be sold to google) | 13:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not by me but by others who think sharing my contact data to whatever rogue public free service was a good idea | 13:20 |
| DrCode | ok | 13:21 |
| DrCode | U are right | 13:21 |
| DrCode | but I will be able to export my contact if I need | 13:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly lovely mates make facebook and linkedin spam me with invitation mails | 13:22 |
| Lava_Croft | its uncalled for | 13:22 |
| DrCode | I had problem also with youtube | 13:22 |
| DrCode | all 3 appliction dosn't work any more with youtube | 13:22 |
| DrCode | it load player and shutdown | 13:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 13:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-20 18:09:59] <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIOBSUSAikY --- just works (with some stuttering in video but OK audio) --- in microB | 13:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, you won't want to watch real movies this way, particularly not via AV on big TV screen | 13:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fekkin HD videos in youtube don't even play nicely on my i5 | 13:27 |
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| DrCode | ok | 13:29 |
| DrCode | DocScrutinizer05, do U use yappari? | 13:30 |
| DrCode | whats up client | 13:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otoh I actually use N900 as VDR to playback DrHouse.mp4 to my TV | 13:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DrCode: nope, I don't think I know of a single usecase for that nonsense | 13:31 |
| DrCode | ok | 13:31 |
| DrCode | thankyou again | 13:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't use facehook or myChase or litter either | 13:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nd until recently I even refused to open litter html pages in my webbrowser since they usually resulted in a all blank page with a tiny blueish bird in one corner, after minutes of loading time | 13:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can see how certain groups of people can make decent use of twitter (see the twitter revolution in arab coutries), but honestly I prefer hashtag-maemo(IRC) to hashtag-dunnowhat(twitter) | 13:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and AIUI that wattsap stuff is eeven a knock-off of a knowck-off | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, keep the typos | 13:38 |
| Lava_Croft | your browser must be broken if it takes minutes to load twitter | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my browser is configured in a sane way | 13:41 |
| Lava_Croft | which is showcased by it needing minutes to load twitter, you were about to say | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | e.g disabled JS and Java and other plugins | 13:41 |
| Lava_Croft | a website that loads near instant even on my netbook | 13:41 |
| Lava_Croft | i enable JS on a per-site basis | 13:41 |
| Lava_Croft | oh, apple dev center was down because of an 'intruder' | 13:42 |
| Lava_Croft | http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Screen-Shot-2013-07-21-at-8.09.35-PM-640x570.png | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and what makes you think I'd bear with using a broken browser? | 13:42 |
| Lava_Croft | you use firefox | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it works excellent with 99% of webpages - except those that abuse BS undefined features only available in one or two mainstream browsers | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you use assumptions | 13:44 |
| Lava_Croft | thats because its fun to use assumptions | 13:44 |
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| XATRIX | Found a wifi Bleeding edge drivers applet for tray | 15:13 |
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| XATRIX | Will try to experiment, maybe if it completely disable kernel module | 15:14 |
| XATRIX | it will save some power | 15:14 |
| XATRIX | I know it's stupid, and will save 0.00009 W :)) but i will try to | 15:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | GRRR http://privatepaste.com/72193ea717 6 processes alive, 8 zombified | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually 5/9 | 15:38 |
| XATRIX | zombies are undead processes | 15:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: nope it wont | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stock maemo already does exactly this (unload wlan driver kernel module) since otherwise wlan chip will eat *way* more than 0.00009 W while scanning for APs all the time | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bleeding edge drivers won't help anything there, rather they make things worse | 15:51 |
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| XATRIX | No, i'm not going to use bleeding edge DRIVERS, i'm gonna use applet | 15:52 |
| XATRIX | To unload kernel module from | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | congrats, it likely will mess up system level stuff doing exactly same | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~crappatch | 15:54 |
| infobot | rumour has it, speedpatch is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1012405#post1012405 >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch] | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might also help ;-D | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 15:56 |
| infobot | hmm... jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | **DO NOT install speedpatch, batterypatch, or auto-disconnect _ever_!! All three do not uninstall and do not work.** | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems that applet is of category auto-disconnect, just it is not "auto" | 15:57 |
| XATRIX | Why not ? | 15:58 |
| XATRIX | I never saw system utils unload wifi | 15:58 |
| XATRIX | never ever! | 15:58 |
| XATRIX | It simply constantly scans area for available wlans | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then maybe because with PR1.2 they fixed rfkill | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and BULLSHIT, see settings of internet connections, for scan period | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if yours does constant scan for APs, then you already *did* mess up your system, by any such "patch" | 16:00 |
| XATRIX | Ok, i have Auto-connect = WLAN , scanning interval = Never in "internet connections" section | 16:01 |
| XATRIX | But if i open system tray app, and click connections, it always shows me available wlans | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what do you think the Nokia devels means by "scanning interval = Never"? | 16:01 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 headdesks | 16:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SURE it does, since you *asked* for it | 16:02 |
| XATRIX | I mean the scanning interval FOR WLANS i was previousely connected to | 16:02 |
| XATRIX | No, you're talking about the auto-scan->autoconnect feature. And i'm talking about idle mode | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | UHUH | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | define idle-mode please | 16:03 |
| XATRIX | In idle mode it still shows me available networks in area i can connect to | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SINCE YOU ASKEd FOR IT!! | 16:04 |
| XATRIX | Only after i click it ? | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Of COURSE it does a AP scan as soon as you open "networks" | 16:04 |
| XATRIX | :( | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what the heck else is it supposed to do?? | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tell you "sorry dude, you said >never scan for APs<, this function is not available!"?? | 16:05 |
| XATRIX | I thought i always scans for available networks, and connects only when i click the needed one | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can see pretty easily from slow filling of list of available APs that this is a realtime scan initiated by you opening the selection list | 16:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's done ONLY when you open the list of available networks | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you set scan interval = never | 16:07 |
| XATRIX | Sounds if it is... | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the devels of this stuff not been that thick | 16:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we actually had that problem of WLAN chip eating massive from battery on PR1.0. In Pr1.1 (iirc) it been fixed by unloading kernel driver as a workaround. Again iirc with PR1.2 the rfkill got fixed in driver, so kernel driver unload wasn't needed anymore. Maybe your applet is from PR1.0 times | 16:11 |
| XATRIX | Possibly | 16:11 |
| XATRIX | Does rfkill disable TX only or both ? | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please don't use it, it will mess up the pretty flawlessly working WLAN handling done by ICD2 and relatives | 16:12 |
| XATRIX | It sounds as a radiofrequencykill swich | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rfkill is a API iirc, that allows power-mode handling of all radio stuff | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | google for rfkill | 16:13 |
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| XATRIX | Ok | 16:21 |
| XATRIX | But wait | 16:21 |
| XATRIX | rfkill doesn't disable blutooth simultaneously with wif-fi | 16:22 |
| XATRIX | It's separate | 16:22 |
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| XATRIX | And rfkill isn't connected to GSM | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/rfkill.txt | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't want to bother about it | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo does that for you | 16:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | possibly maemo's ancient kernel even does pre-rfkill generic powermode handling of rf-systems | 16:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but it does *some* *working* handling anyway | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since PR1.2 the latest | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are tablet-mode and airplane-mode apps for powerbutton-menu | 16:30 |
| XATRIX | Yea | 16:31 |
| XATRIX | I saw it | 16:31 |
| XATRIX | It completely disables all the radio | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while tablet-mode only shuts down GSM modem, airplane mode shuts down everything. For all other finegrained stuff like not constantly running WLAN chip in power-greedy AP scan mode, ISC2 is responsible | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ICD2 | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, you don't want to waste your time and ruin your system config to try and improve what's already there in stock maemo. You can't get any better on it | 16:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | most definitely not by installing random applets | 16:34 |
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| XATRIX | This thesis i can't argue with... | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you suffer from WLAN created battery drain then that's caused by too frequent AP scan during times where no WLAN is in vicinity that's suitable for associating to it. You may want to change interval to "never" in that case | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | interval of "5minutes" is known to somewhat drain battery under certain circumstances (not associated) | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also those cyclic wlan scans are known to cause dropouts in BT audio listening - e.g while jogging and listening to mp3 | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can easily verify by comparing periodicity of dropouts with interval set for wlan scans in "internet settings" | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no surprise since wlan and BT share same subsystem, via hardware coexistence interface | 16:41 |
| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: does it try to scan even if you are not trying to connect? | 16:42 |
| XATRIX | Yea, since today, i started to finally realize how it works here | 16:42 |
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| Lava_Croft | someone turn off the heating | 16:43 |
| mschlens_ | +1 | 16:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: see interval=<period> setting | 16:45 |
| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: so it still does? | 16:46 |
| Sicelo | where is that setting? | 16:46 |
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| jon_y | how do I set it? | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: unless you've set interval=never or auto-connect=never, maemo is an always-online system | 16:46 |
| Sicelo | ok :P | 16:46 |
| jon_y | yes, I never do auto connect | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: settings->internet | 16:47 |
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| jon_y | ok, thanks | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo(5) doesn't tear down internet connection as soon as "nobody is using it" - like e.g android does afaik. Rather it relies on powersaving mode (PSM) for WLAN, and on carrier side firewalling of inbound unsolicited packets spam for GPRS | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a passive GPRS connection eats some 2mA | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no use in shutting it down | 16:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | a idle WLAN connection on maximum (and working) PSM probably needs even less | 16:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's btw one of the properties the hardcore maemo fans love most about this system: it's always ready to react on arbitrary inbound traffic, be it IRC, or IM, or any other service | 16:54 |
| Lava_Croft | its a PC, not a glorified phone | 16:55 |
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| Sicelo | does android really tear idle connections down? | 16:55 |
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| Lava_Croft | no | 16:55 |
| Lava_Croft | iirc windows phone does | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unlike most other mobile/embedded OS where you will see your IRC client go offline as soon as you lock the screen | 16:55 |
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| Lava_Croft | ios doesnt go iffline, nor does android | 16:56 |
| Lava_Croft | offline* | 16:56 |
| Sicelo | anyway, i know android is always generating traffic :P | 16:56 |
| jon_y | is it because it is telling google about your latests rendezvous? :) | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 16:57 |
| jon_y | yfw when big borther's image get sold to the masses as a caring big brother rather than a scary telescreen telling you what to do | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first iPhone concept been all about webservices, means *nothing* gets done locally, you always only connect to some central services via a glorified webbrowser | 16:58 |
| jon_y | remember to pick up your kids after your groceries! | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then they noticed that this means your whole device stops working as soon as you lose connectivity | 16:58 |
| Lava_Croft | which are the mobile/os's that are part of your 'most mobile/embedded OS's" | 16:59 |
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| jon_y | I'm using a dumb phone while my N900 is put in coldstorage for preservation | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we had a time of laughter and hilarity at openmoko and before, during that | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since evry fool can see without any sight aid that this never will fly | 17:02 |
| jon_y | well, can't get a phone here unless it had some huge huge backing from service providers | 17:02 |
| jon_y | like Lumia, for awhile | 17:02 |
| jon_y | and then it's all Galaxy S | 17:02 |
| jon_y | and iphones | 17:03 |
| Lava_Croft | they tried with lumias here, but people dont want windows in their pocket | 17:03 |
| jon_y | there aren't any variety at all, they're all the same | 17:03 |
| jon_y | looks like everyone is racing to be the same | 17:04 |
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| jon_y | the thinest anorexic phone, the widest screen | 17:04 |
| jon_y | they don't even fit in my pocket anymore | 17:04 |
| Lava_Croft | and if they do, bending over splits the screen | 17:04 |
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| jon_y | :( | 17:05 |
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| Lava_Croft | N9 is still my favorite smartphone form factor | 17:05 |
| jon_y | yeah, I get weird looks at office when I take out my dumb phone | 17:05 |
| Lava_Croft | perfect size, shape and weight | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((looks like everyone is racing to be the same)) that's how apple mesmerizes the industry, as paralleled by how they hypnotize their customers | 17:05 |
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| Lava_Croft | apple is a good brand | 17:05 |
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| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: none of the manufacturers dare make something different | 17:05 |
| Lava_Croft | they can sell manure as perfume | 17:05 |
| jon_y | cause status quo makes profit | 17:06 |
| Lava_Croft | thats not entire true tho | 17:06 |
| Lava_Croft | samsung does try things | 17:06 |
| Lava_Croft | currently samsung, in relation to weirdo phone designs, took over Nokia's place | 17:06 |
| Lava_Croft | even tho Nokia had much crazier designs | 17:06 |
| jon_y | I'm waiting for one with hard keyboard | 17:06 |
| Lava_Croft | there's several droids which have that | 17:06 |
| jon_y | and not blackberry | 17:07 |
| jon_y | and not blackberry style keyboards that eat half the screen | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia once did a real step towards breaking new ground with their organizers, but when it came to N9 they got hynotized by "iPhone is THE BIBLE" as everybody else | 17:07 |
| jon_y | N9 is nice, the N950 was better | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/organizers/communicators/ | 17:07 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: Nokia once did a real step towards breaking new ground with their communicators, but when it came to N9 they got hynotized by "iPhone is THE BIBLE" as everybody else | 17:07 |
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| jon_y | too bad the iphone happened | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | N9 is a phone | 17:09 |
| Lava_Croft | the problem is not that iphone is the bible | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's it | 17:09 |
| Lava_Croft | that problem is that people love iphones | 17:09 |
| Lava_Croft | and that iphone set a standard | 17:09 |
| Lava_Croft | nokia had to adapt | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody *has to* adapt | 17:09 |
| Lava_Croft | they do | 17:09 |
| Lava_Croft | Nokia is not Apple | 17:09 |
| Lava_Croft | Apple cant make the people adapt | 17:09 |
| Lava_Croft | can* | 17:09 |
| Lava_Croft | Nokia cant do that | 17:10 |
| jon_y | Nokia was doing fine before they announced lumia | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | Nokia can only adapt to the people | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | fine? | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | are you silly? | 17:10 |
| jon_y | yes, stocks still going up, until burning platform | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | that doesnt mean its doing fine | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | nokia would sooner or later have ran into troubles with symbian and low-cost phones | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | Elop just made it all worse | 17:11 |
| jon_y | problem is that they dropped *everything* | 17:11 |
| Lava_Croft | that was the real error | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, i just again question your generalizations, like "the people". that's for sure how all the market droids think, no matter if in Nokia or Samsung or Aplle or whatever. Though apple started to break *new* grounds | 17:11 |
| jon_y | no sales no profit, they forgot to sell anything | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but they won't suck in me | 17:11 |
| Lava_Croft | they dont have tpo | 17:11 |
| Lava_Croft | they have no need for people clinging to dead HW or projects born dead | 17:11 |
| Lava_Croft | like openmoko or n900 | 17:11 |
| Lava_Croft | you are not part of the target market | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you are not defining target market, btw there are a multitude of markets | 17:12 |
| Lava_Croft | the problem that people like us have, is that we very much overvalue the worth that people assign to their mobile | 17:12 |
| Lava_Croft | and most people dont give a shit about their mobile, its brand or its OS | 17:13 |
| jon_y | *this* | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just every hw making fool wnats to focus on the largest existing segment | 17:13 |
| jon_y | is why we never get cool stuff | 17:13 |
| Lava_Croft | jon_y: making devices costs money | 17:13 |
| Lava_Croft | so unless you are Jolla and you have some help, it will be rather hard to make a good product and sell it | 17:14 |
| Lava_Croft | ask DocScrutinizer05 | 17:14 |
| jon_y | yup, mass production or it ain't happening | 17:14 |
| Lava_Croft | future is looking better and better tho | 17:14 |
| Lava_Croft | but things get into fashion and go out of fashion | 17:15 |
| Lava_Croft | HW keyboards and resistive touchscreens are among them | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | look, there seems to be a trend to have some ugly tatoo right above your ass. I'm not one of those who run to next tatoo studio to get one | 17:15 |
| Lava_Croft | even tho I love both deeply | 17:15 |
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| Lava_Croft | most people arent like that, DocScrutinizer05 | 17:15 |
| jon_y | ooh, are those caused by vampire novels? | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if 95% of idiots think they need a smartphone (and define "smartphone" as "looks like an iphone"), I won't be one of them | 17:16 |
| Lava_Croft | they dont think they need a smartphone just by themselves | 17:16 |
| Lava_Croft | a need is created for them | 17:17 |
| Lava_Croft | so you have to lure them into thinking they need one | 17:17 |
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| Lava_Croft | marketing is awesome | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I see a opportunity for really innovative players in the market to define and provide new trends, rather than running like sheep after what is newest trend defined by Apple | 17:17 |
| Lava_Croft | peer pressure, as you described, is part of this | 17:17 |
| Lava_Croft | Apple doesnt define trends | 17:17 |
| Lava_Croft | that was with ipad release, which is years ago | 17:17 |
| Lava_Croft | they havent defined any trend the last couple of years | 17:18 |
| jon_y | yeah, welcome to engineering consent 101 | 17:18 |
| jon_y | magazines tell you what to buy | 17:18 |
| jon_y | TV tells you what to want | 17:18 |
| Lava_Croft | if the people want to buy it, then they do | 17:18 |
| Lava_Croft | and they are correct | 17:18 |
| Lava_Croft | magazines and TV only tell old people what to buy | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it depends what you want to sell. Do you want to sall arbitrary crap as long as it gets you the maximum net income, or do you want to produce sth that you like and are convinced of | 17:19 |
| Lava_Croft | 'arbitrary crap' is an opinion | 17:20 |
| Lava_Croft | so a bit hard to gauge | 17:20 |
| jon_y | more like the internet is telling what is cool now | 17:20 |
| jon_y | facebook et all | 17:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's a definition of a relationship of a manufacturer to his product | 17:20 |
| Lava_Croft | facebook is for your parents | 17:20 |
| Lava_Croft | kids these days dont dig FB that much, since their parents post on there too | 17:21 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 17:21 |
| SAiF__ | lol | 17:21 |
| jon_y | whatever $hippest_media_of_the_moment | 17:21 |
| Lava_Croft | same with iphones | 17:21 |
| Lava_Croft | they barely sell in NL, because only old people buy iphones | 17:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | UHUH | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so tell a zombie like me, what's hip with youngsters this morning (I almost said "today" until I realized that's a way too long timespan) | 17:22 |
| jon_y | I dunno, ask the youngsters | 17:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Lava_Croft seems to know | 17:23 |
| SAiF__ | go for galaxy.. my friends always do that.. | 17:23 |
| Lava_Croft | its what the youngsters tell me | 17:23 |
| Lava_Croft | and what i see in their hands | 17:24 |
| jon_y | probably Chinese news on the telly | 17:24 |
| Lava_Croft | no iphones, lots and i mean lots of Notes | 17:24 |
| Lava_Croft | apparently they dig that horrible half-TV samsung Note | 17:24 |
| Lava_Croft | i cant help it my nephew says he and his friends only use FB to make it look nice for the parents and school | 17:24 |
| Lava_Croft | and they use for example twitter and g+ instead of FB | 17:24 |
| Lava_Croft | (dont start telling me how G+ or Twitter isnt any better/different/whatever, because i dont give a shit) | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that any of that makes any difference to me | 17:25 |
| jon_y | kids on g+ | 17:25 |
| Lava_Croft | why should it | 17:25 |
| jon_y | I must be way behind times | 17:25 |
| Lava_Croft | i only know google_ because it has my name and a + above my gmail inbox | 17:25 |
| Lava_Croft | er google+ | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: prolly. You forgot to get your new device of the day I guess | 17:26 |
| Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05 went into puberty mode | 17:26 |
| jon_y | can't afford it :( | 17:26 |
| jon_y | mortgage | 17:26 |
| Lava_Croft | just call it debt | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Lava_Croft: you're again trying to insult me? | 17:27 |
| jon_y | how is it these bourgeoisie are everywhere!!? | 17:28 |
| jon_y | time for class revolution! | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can't help to think this fad must be linked to your nationality somehow | 17:28 |
| jon_y | what nationality does it imply? | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | netherlands or belgium. always in for a tacky insult based on nothing | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least based on heuristics | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (this observation/notion about those two nationalities, that is) | 17:30 |
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| jon_y | the stereotype I get about Belgium is that they can't decide if they are French or German :) | 17:31 |
| jon_y | Netherlands seem to be a blend of the whole continent, linguistically | 17:32 |
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| Lava_Croft | "blabla what is the daf today?" "blabla got your hip device of the day" "bla bla" | 17:37 |
| Lava_Croft | i call that puberty mode, wether you think its an insult is your call | 17:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway it's pretty clear that Nokia ditched the concept of communicators, later NITs, in favor of another me-too-iPhoneish thing called N9. | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | the plans were the for keyb devices too | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | and you cant deny that iphone design is the standard | 17:38 |
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| Lava_Croft | just like nokia design was the standard before | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I call your brain impaired, in the parsing / analytics section - your call if you feel insulted | 17:39 |
| Lava_Croft | i never feel insulted online | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's part of the problem | 17:39 |
| Lava_Croft | its perfectly sane to first release the mainstream full-touch device | 17:40 |
| Lava_Croft | instead of the niche hw keyb device | 17:40 |
| Lava_Croft | besdies, whole N9 history is mangled | 17:40 |
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| Lava_Croft | dowe even know what the plan was, before it changed like 3 times | 17:40 |
| Lava_Croft | and heat makes me type awful | 17:41 |
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| jon_y | everyone was laughing when the lawyer failed to tell the iphone from the galaxy apart | 17:43 |
| jon_y | I didn't, because I really couldn't | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wouldn't even care to do | 17:43 |
| Lava_Croft | one thing people do know | 17:43 |
| Lava_Croft | what is a lumia and that they dont want it | 17:43 |
| Lava_Croft | MS should really not have gone with the Windows brand | 17:44 |
| Lava_Croft | its so tainted | 17:44 |
| jon_y | they're stuck in their bubble wrapped reality | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | well, their mobile OS really isnt that bad, compared to the others | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | thats why is a bit sad | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | Windows these days, both mobile and desktop, really isnt that bad | 17:45 |
| jon_y | Lava_Croft: its just that nothing is happening there | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | but its been so goddamn horrible in the past, that it just will keep haunting them | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | jon_y: yeah, MS is moving much too slow | 17:45 |
| jon_y | the mobile side of things anyway | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | even my younger brother, who has been wp user since the first devices, is not out of love:< | 17:46 |
| Lava_Croft | now* | 17:46 |
| jon_y | the Windows side is nice, the underlying layers anyway | 17:46 |
| Lava_Croft | he got Oppo Find 5 | 17:46 |
| Lava_Croft | yes, the OS feels really good too | 17:46 |
| ShadowJK | the new w8 on desktop is pretty hard to use for normal people | 17:46 |
| Lava_Croft | well, yeah | 17:46 |
| jon_y | the windows desktop is only good in the underlying layers | 17:46 |
| joga | windows has the 'mall' feel to it I dislike | 17:46 |
| Lava_Croft | MS is very american, blunt | 17:46 |
| ShadowJK | random things popping up everywhere if you accidentally move pointer too close to things etc | 17:47 |
| jon_y | but users don't care about underlying layers | 17:47 |
| Lava_Croft | yeah, i tried win8 but ditched it | 17:47 |
| jon_y | or anything technical | 17:47 |
| Lava_Croft | but their mobile wintoons is rather nice | 17:47 |
| Lava_Croft | certainly if you have a nexus7 and a lumia, the difference is funny | 17:47 |
| joga | I set up win8 for my dad and in many parts it was a ridiculous heap of crap | 17:47 |
| Lava_Croft | beast HW nexus7 still being sluggish | 17:47 |
| Lava_Croft | yeah, the metro shit must go on the desktop | 17:47 |
| Lava_Croft | it just doesnt work on any monitor made after 1992 | 17:48 |
| joga | the UI decisions have been awful in parts | 17:48 |
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| Lava_Croft | well, Win7 is great | 17:48 |
| Lava_Croft | still windows, but meh | 17:48 |
| Lava_Croft | linux is still linux too :) | 17:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hi ShadowJK :-) | 17:49 |
| joga | even with all the faults of linux I still find it much more suitable for my use | 17:49 |
| ShadowJK | the sad thing is, while Metro kinda works on an actual tablet, it gets ruined by stuff throwing you into desktop mode with impossinly small text and icons... and desktop mode on desktop is ruined by stuff throwing you into metro and its move-mouse-across-mousepad-five-times to do anything at all | 17:49 |
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| Lava_Croft | thats personal taste and character:) | 17:49 |
| Lava_Croft | i use both with pleasure | 17:49 |
| jon_y | ShadowJK: yes, I used desktop mode on a tablet before | 17:49 |
| joga | I admin windows boxes | 17:49 |
| Lava_Croft | windows more, windows has the support for games:) | 17:50 |
| jon_y | one of the surface beta models | 17:50 |
| jon_y | fat fingers!!!!! | 17:50 |
| joga | it's pure horror in some stuff | 17:50 |
| Lava_Croft | linux is pure horror in some stuff too | 17:50 |
| joga | and very convenient in others, if you can't handle cli | 17:50 |
| jon_y | really, the only thing holding me on windows is just games | 17:50 |
| Lava_Croft | the places of the cancer differs, but it still cancer | 17:50 |
| Lava_Croft | linux will 'win' in the end of course, because its powered by people | 17:50 |
| jon_y | and IE, for tax forms | 17:50 |
| SAiF__ | me too jon_y | 17:50 |
| Lava_Croft | jon_y: yes | 17:50 |
| joga | for tax forms? | 17:51 |
| Lava_Croft | tax forms are usually done inside shitty closed apps | 17:51 |
| Lava_Croft | which require probably win32 | 17:51 |
| joga | ugh | 17:51 |
| Lava_Croft | and compat mode on win7, right | 17:51 |
| jon_y | filling in yearly tax forms on the gov website | 17:51 |
| joga | not so here | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: ELSTER? | 17:51 |
| Lava_Croft | its web-based here too, now | 17:51 |
| Lava_Croft | but those websites arent always built properly | 17:52 |
| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: no idea what is that, it is web based, but it doesn't quite work in firefox | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, sounds like ELSTER | 17:52 |
| Lava_Croft | steam on linux is cute, but its still steamdrm and still crappy | 17:52 |
| jon_y | what is ELSTER? | 17:52 |
| joga | at the uni I work for we have a service desk system that uses activex, fortunately we have competent enough people to clunk it workable on firefox too | 17:53 |
| jon_y | steam DRM is still DRM, unfortunately | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ELectronic (LSt)[tax] (ER)[acquisition] | 17:53 |
| Lava_Croft | jon_y: yes, its an annoying layer of crap | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Electronische LohnSTeuer ERfassung | 17:53 |
| Lava_Croft | electronic salary taxes? | 17:54 |
| jon_y | I think it was a mix of php and coldfusion | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.elster.de/ | 17:54 |
| mschlens_ | PHP and confusion? Yeah, that usually goes hand-in-hand. | 17:54 |
| jon_y | .cfg, whatever it is | 17:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the fun detail in ELSTER: you're basically urged to get a windows PC to declare your taxes. Alternatives not supported, and even handing in good old paper forms isn't generally allowable anymore | 17:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I won't start bitching about the missing linux support (or even general platform independance) - just remarking that all the Mac guys feel pretty pissed | 17:59 |
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| mschlens_ | DocScrutinizer05: Hey, you gotta remember, it's all #neuland | 18:02 |
| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: I have to admit, taxes are pretty painless in France. | 18:02 |
| teotwaki | I mean, the process to pay your taxes is painless. The actual amounts, however, are about as painful as shoving a fistful of rusted nails up your bum. | 18:03 |
| mschlens_ | :) | 18:03 |
| mschlens_ | I almost wanted to object | 18:03 |
| teotwaki | But you can do it via Windows, Linux and Mac, iOS or Android. | 18:04 |
| teotwaki | You get this nice letter, with a QRCode on it, which allows you to access your file on your phone easily. | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: sure. I bet you had no govenrment working group doing that software | 18:05 |
| teotwaki | In my case, I had to declare a few extra things due to overseas funds and stuff, but even then, I just moved to one of the computers, logged in again, declared whatever I had to declare, and setup a monthly invoice. | 18:05 |
| teotwaki | (the overseas bits weren't supported on the mobile version, but my girlfriend did her declaration 100% on the phone) | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, while here they do artistic tricks like the literal circus clown around SSL certs and PKI, to make sure nobody will forge your tax declaration | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and of course use activeX or whatever the shit is called, to do that | 18:08 |
| teotwaki | hehe, not here :) | 18:08 |
| teotwaki | AFAICT, they use your SSL session key to sign the document, no ActiveX or whatever needed. | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a brainfart | 18:09 |
| teotwaki | Probably not as secure as the consultants would want them to believe | 18:09 |
| teotwaki | But as long as there's no fuckups like the one that happened in Sweden, where everyone who logged in accessed one poor dude's account. | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 18:10 |
| teotwaki | You didn't hear about that one? | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 18:10 |
| teotwaki | Norway, not Sweden, my bad | 18:11 |
| teotwaki | http://it.slashdot.org/story/12/03/22/0133237/disaster-strikes-norwegian-government-web-portal | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 18:11 |
| SAiF__ | :) | 18:11 |
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| teotwaki | " Logging in is fairly simple: you type in your social security number and a personal password, and you receive a pin-code that you need to type in." | 18:12 |
| teotwaki | "At 6:17 PM local time, every single user who tried to log in went right past the login screen, and found themselves logged in as Kenneth, a 36 year old man from Oslo." | 18:12 |
| teotwaki | "Users then had access to all financial data of this unfortunate person over two years back in time, in addition to the financial information of his wife and the company he worked for. Altinn shut down some 15 minutes later" | 18:12 |
| SAiF__ | poor fellow | 18:13 |
| teotwaki | Anyway, my take on it is: You pay a lot of taxes in France, but at least the service is well-thought and accessible. | 18:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: HAHAHA http://icrontic.com/discussion/comment/829900#Comment_829900 | 18:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ponders restarting apache on www | 18:26 | |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ponders restarting apache on www by a cronjob | 18:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 18:26 |
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| SAiF__ | that link only showed me some ads.. dont care.. | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while pushing up the timeout from 30 to 101s significantly reduced number of frozen apache2 processes per day, it still didn't solve the issue of freezing processes | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SAiF__: strange | 18:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | >>...so the "server" caching Kenneth's data, was actually the F5 BigIP load balancer (). I'm no fan of Accenture, the distinguished vendor behind the unscalable Altinn-behemoth, but let's give "credit", where "credit" is due - this was a case of the BigIP-boxes performing "queue management" .... << | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | root@www1:~# grep "invoked oom-killer" /var/log/messages | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jul 22 03:25:49 www1 kernel: [1685908.848475] php invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x200da, order=0, oom_adj=0, oom_score_adj=0 | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jul 22 03:32:16 www1 kernel: [1686295.078488] ntpd invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x201da, order=0, oom_adj=0, oom_score_adj=0 | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jul 22 03:37:52 www1 kernel: [1686630.908536] apache2 invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x201da, order=0, oom_adj=0, oom_score_adj=0 | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jul 22 03:44:07 www1 kernel: [1687006.843927] apache2 invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x201da, order=0, oom_adj=0, oom_score_adj=0 | 21:04 |
| Wizzup | heh | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oops ECHAN | 21:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but this is for here: | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | PID USER PRI NI VIRT RES SHR S CPU% MEM% TIME+ START Command | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 5946 www-data 20 0 1974M 1712M 20032 R 46.0 29.0 14:09.81 17:12 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start | 21:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and this for matters of "MAINTAINERS URGENTLY WANTED!": | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-22 20:35:14] <DocScrutinizer05> compare [2013-07-22 17:35:06] <DocScrutinizer05> #log: did no restart but a ># kill -9 9417 10366 10970 14664 14664 19857 23836 24837 26642 30552 | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-22 20:35:45] <DocScrutinizer05> and http://monitor.maemo.org/ganglia/?r=8hr&cs=7%2F22%2F2013+17%3A5&ce=7%2F22%2F2013+18%3A16&c=maemo&h=www&tab=m&vn=&mc=2&z=medium&metric_group=ALLGROUPS | 21:40 |
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| Sicelo | interesting.. my gps doesn't work today even with agps enabled, and using supl.google.com | 22:29 |
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| Sicelo | a valid sim is on and registered on the network | 22:30 |
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| Sicelo | hmm, is the wifi perhaps blocking some traffic? :-/ | 22:33 |
| * Sicelo switches to 3G | 22:33 | |
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| Sicelo | Location test gui says 10 sats available, not associated with any | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | visible means nuttin | 22:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just the rsult of the almanac equation which sats should be above horizon | 22:41 |
| Sicelo | i have clear sky as well btw | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is your date/time correct? | 22:41 |
| Sicelo | yes, i update my time via ntpdate | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you have a working connection to internet? | 22:42 |
| Sicelo | yes, am actually writing this from N900 itself | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, did you roam recently? | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or swapped SIM? | 22:42 |
| Sicelo | nop. none of those | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | start "location test " | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, you did already | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what does location test say about your current location as estimated? | 22:44 |
| Sicelo | i'm going to paste 4 lines of syslog now.. | 22:44 |
| Sicelo | Jul 22 21:43:28 fremantle location-proxy[1225]: GLIB DEBUG default - Socket to supl.google.com opened, fd=10, verify_res=0 | 22:45 |
| Sicelo | Jul 22 21:43:31 fremantle location-proxy[1225]: GLIB WARNING ** default - ssl_read_data: SSL_ERROR=5, ret=0, errno: Success | 22:45 |
| Sicelo | Jul 22 21:43:31 fremantle location-proxy[1225]: GLIB WARNING ** default - error:00000000:lib(0):func(0):reason(0) | 22:45 |
| Sicelo | Jul 22 21:43:31 fremantle location-proxy[1225]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Couldn't close socket: 10 | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, sounds like a cert issue | 22:45 |
| Sicelo | yes :-/ | 22:46 |
| Sicelo | google's? | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should try to disable A in GPS settings | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or switch to supl.nokia.com | 22:46 |
| Pali | supl.nokia.com not working | 22:46 |
| Sicelo | i thought supl.nokia doesn't work at all | 22:47 |
| Sicelo | any other free one? i remember someone mentioned a few some days ago.. | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it seems there are not many free ones | 22:47 |
| Pali | I do not know about any other free supl server | 22:48 |
| Sicelo | ok.. let me see if relying on plain gps helps | 22:48 |
| Pali | now tested supl.google.com and it not working too :-( | 22:49 |
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| nox- | hm i just ran gpsrecorder and it set the clock for me... | 22:49 |
| nox- | and i never changed the supl server so i guess it's still using nokia's | 22:50 |
| Pali | I'm getting: "SUPL protocol error -3" or "SUPL protocol error -6" from supl.google.com via ./supl-client | 22:50 |
| Sicelo | nox-: maybe your N900 had a recent fix.. and therefore easy for it to 'sync' whatever | 22:50 |
| Sicelo | Pali: where do you see that | 22:50 |
| Pali | Sicelo: in program supl-client | 22:50 |
| nox- | Sicelo, hm ok i set the clock before here... | 22:50 |
| nox- | i mean ran gpsrecorder to do it :) | 22:51 |
| Sicelo | Pali: available on stock? | 22:51 |
| Pali | Sicelo: no | 22:51 |
| Pali | Sicelo: http://www.tajuma.com/supl/ | 22:51 |
| Sicelo | thanks | 22:51 |
| Sicelo | deb? | 22:51 |
| Pali | this is only one supl client which I found and is FOOS | 22:51 |
| Pali | no deb | 22:51 |
| Pali | I'm running it at desktop | 22:52 |
| Sicelo | anyway, finally got a fix without AGPS | 22:52 |
| ecc3g | i was wondering why getting a fix was taking forever yesterday :( | 22:52 |
| Sicelo | hmm, so we're getting screwed day by day.. soon we'll only rely on pure gps fix .. | 22:53 |
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| ecc3g | google will only let android supl in? | 22:56 |
| Sicelo | btw, does supl.nokia still work for symbian phones? | 22:57 |
| ecc3g | i'll have to try it... but I have to move my sim card back... | 22:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you know that A is also available via GSM/UMTS ? | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~gsm-agps | 23:05 |
| infobot | rrlp is, like, the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP | 23:05 |
| Sicelo | yes DocScrutinizer05. that's whhy i always make sure i have a correctly-registered sim on N900 if i want to use gps | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 23:06 |
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| Sicelo | which language/region combination on N900 uses yyyy-mm-dd format for date? | 23:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | err | 23:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | $LC_TIME = de_DE | 23:24 |
| Sicelo | mine is on en_US | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I guess I still did some other patches to get yyyy-mm-dd | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and actually I see this format in ls -l but of course not in a plain date | 23:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, this stuff doesn't act like I thought it should. Not at all | 23:35 |
| Sicelo | yeah. thanks for the effort thoguh :) | 23:36 |
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