| Lava_Croft | nokia announced yet another completely unimpressive mobile device! | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Lava_Croft | and its still the same phone as 2 years ago, it seems! \o/ | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if they only would announce same N900-alike as 5 years ago | 00:02 |
| Lava_Croft | those times are past us | 00:03 |
| Lava_Croft | nokia is not in the game anymore to set the bar:) | 00:03 |
| Lava_Croft | they now follow, several miles behind | 00:03 |
| Lava_Croft | what i wonder is what monkey at Nokia thought that putting this PureView monster in a Lumia will make people want a Lumia | 00:03 |
| Lava_Croft | as if the camera was the reason holding people back from buying a Lumia | 00:04 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 stares at his new disk activity indicator and thinks "how awesome!" | 00:06 | |
| Lava_Croft | yeah i read it | 00:06 |
| Lava_Croft | but i decided its not worth it if it doesnt stick! | 00:06 |
| Win7Mac | please port to N9 :P | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while sleep 10; do echo mmc1 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523\:g/trigger; echo mmc0 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523\:b/trigger; done | 00:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | good enough for me, for now | 00:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | btw don't get fooled, here mmc0 and mmc1 are genuine unrenamed meaning | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I think r for red is nicer than b for blue | 00:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | i.e. uSD is red, not blue when you use /sys/class/leds/lp5523\:r instead *b | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just wonder wtf there's no mtd0 in list of triggers | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (cat /sys/class/leds/lp5523\:g/trigger) | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | none timer heartbeat mmc0 [mmc1] | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | heartbeat is pretty boring | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | timer is kinda obscure | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I once checked sourcecode how to use it, but in the end it's also boring | 00:16 |
| Lava_Croft | ill just blindly copy and paste that you said over ssh | 00:16 |
| Lava_Croft | n900 is not within reach | 00:16 |
| Lava_Croft | (of course i wont, but its always fun to say such things) | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, when you want to run that via ssh (wlan) then you probably should use nohup (or screen) | 00:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and as mentioned, it works much better when you disable "device on" LED pattern in settings/LED-patterns | 00:18 |
| Lava_Croft | i have all leds except charging disabled | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 00:18 |
| Lava_Croft | they serve me no purpose for notifications | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then you indeed can simply c&p it to a ssh session | 00:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nohup while sleep 10; do echo mmc1 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523\:g/trigger; echo mmc0 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523\:r/trigger; done | 00:19 |
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| Lava_Croft | ok | 00:22 |
| Lava_Croft | im not fast with saying such things | 00:22 |
| Lava_Croft | but THIS particular blinking light is cool | 00:22 |
| Lava_Croft | thanks | 00:22 |
| Lava_Croft | finally it seems i havew a valid use for the led | 00:22 |
| Lava_Croft | at least for as long as the novelty factor works | 00:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | *cough* | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~/bin# cp -i * /usr/local/bin/ | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cp: „/usr/local/bin/patch-libsms“ überschreiben? n | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cp: copy.c:2259: valid_options: Assertion `((unsigned int) (co->backup_type) <= numbered_backups)' failed. | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Aborted (core dumped) | 00:23 |
| Lava_Croft | o_O | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~/bin# cp --version | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cp (GNU coreutils) 8.4 | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bbl, afk | 00:26 |
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| Lava_Croft | dont think your led works that well! | 00:33 |
| Lava_Croft | copying a file did not make it light up | 00:33 |
| Lava_Croft | well, your 'code' or my insertion | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think each keypress causes a mce event that might reset it. To be investigated further | 00:35 |
| Lava_Croft | wauw | 00:36 |
| Lava_Croft | and here i thought that idea was crazy, haha | 00:36 |
| Lava_Croft | since it does seem to cancel it upon any keypress | 00:36 |
| Lava_Croft | or just about anything else | 00:36 |
| Lava_Croft | still, a valid path to explore | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could disable mce led plugin all together, even when this probably also has impact on kbd backlight | 00:36 |
| Lava_Croft | yeah, thats not really needed for now | 00:37 |
| Lava_Croft | im sure there can/will be a workaround | 00:37 |
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| Lava_Croft | its amazing how Apple can make a 2h presentation and show nothing really new and everybody is cheering | 00:48 |
| Lava_Croft | while ELop shows off quite impressive camera tech and im just yawning | 00:49 |
| Lava_Croft | most of the Nokia Pro Cam stuff is already pretty normal for n900 users | 00:50 |
| Lava_Croft | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=M_Q3bxo7vJI#t=1548s | 00:51 |
| Lava_Croft | thats neato | 00:52 |
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| ecc3g | how many cell phones out there have xenon discharge flashes nowadays? | 01:14 |
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| Lava_Croft | no clue, but its normal to bring standard features as if they are special | 01:15 |
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| ecc3g | It does make a big difference in low light photography... but it eats battery... | 01:17 |
| Lava_Croft | well, friend of mine has that other lumia with the neat low-light ability | 01:18 |
| Lava_Croft | it's quite impressive | 01:18 |
| Lava_Croft | too bad thats about the only thing thats neat about t | 01:18 |
| Lava_Croft | it* | 01:18 |
| ecc3g | probably. | 01:18 |
| Lava_Croft | almost bought a 808 the other day, but decided 527euros is still a bit much :P | 01:19 |
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| ecc3g | just that you can't use your phone as a flashlight anymore :o | 01:19 |
| ecc3g | hehe | 01:19 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 01:20 |
| ecc3g | I wonder if it's possible to upgrade the N900's LEDs with a higher efficiency/higher wattage LED. | 01:20 |
| Lava_Croft | hm, probably not, since that would draw more power | 01:20 |
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| Lava_Croft | im fairly sure that stuff is fairly tight | 01:21 |
| Lava_Croft | and i used the fairly twice in a single sentence, so \o/ | 01:21 |
| ecc3g | some of those 1W LEDs are really bright, I should check the luminosity of the built-in LEDs... | 01:22 |
| ecc3g | then again, they are fairly bright when used as a flashlight as they are. | 01:22 |
| Lava_Croft | yeah, and getting the flashlight on is actually easier on n900 than on n9 | 01:22 |
| Lava_Croft | at least the way i do it | 01:22 |
| Lava_Croft | so i end up using the n900 as flashlight all the time:P | 01:23 |
| ecc3g | actually a 1W LED should still last a while on a bl5j | 01:23 |
| ecc3g | then again the LEDs may already be close to 1W as they are... | 01:24 |
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| Lava_Croft | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Flash_Torch | 01:25 |
| ecc3g | hmm 320mA =~ 1W, they might well be 1W LED units | 01:27 |
| ecc3g | w/o heatsink | 01:28 |
| ecc3g | the dies look very small for 1W but might just be due to the lens | 01:28 |
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| Lava_Croft | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BO7PyjpCIAA6hsP.jpg:large :) | 01:31 |
| Lava_Croft | the only thing keeping the right iphone from not falling apart into glass shards is the cae | 01:31 |
| Lava_Croft | case* | 01:31 |
| ecc3g | hmm... I really wonder why people like showing off their broken iphones,... it screams "idiot" to me... | 01:52 |
| Lava_Croft | this is even worse | 01:53 |
| Lava_Croft | this is the woman's 9th iphone | 01:53 |
| ecc3g | ouch. | 01:53 |
| Lava_Croft | she cant get a new one because the insurance company finally said 'screw you' | 01:53 |
| Lava_Croft | the left one is my wife's | 01:54 |
| ecc3g | need to figure out how to take care of them. | 01:54 |
| Lava_Croft | like just not dropping them i guess | 01:54 |
| ecc3g | something like that. | 01:54 |
| Lava_Croft | my wife's dropped quite a few times, it has just a few little dents in the aluminium band | 01:54 |
| Lava_Croft | so i dont know what some people do to it! | 01:55 |
| ecc3g | shit happens... but... why show off a broken iphone | 01:55 |
| Lava_Croft | its power reflected in vanity! | 01:55 |
| ecc3g | honestly I don't even recognize iphones, heh. I would have just passed it off as "phone X" if you haven't told me... | 01:56 |
| Lava_Croft | oh, its easily recognizable as an iphone | 01:56 |
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| Lava_Croft | but i see that iphone4 every day, so im probably rather biased:) | 01:57 |
| ecc3g | now... a broken n900... time to mourn. heh | 01:58 |
| Lava_Croft | ill mourn when its dead, broken can be repaired | 01:59 |
| ecc3g | heeh | 01:59 |
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| ecc3g | unlike iphones, the number of n900s out there can only go down :( | 02:01 |
| Lava_Croft | sadly, yes | 02:01 |
| ecc3g | I dropped my n900 a few days ago onto concrete, my heart stopped, fortunately it was only a foot or so, and it's still working OK... | 02:02 |
| Lava_Croft | dont speak of such things, its awful | 02:03 |
| ecc3g | no cracks fortunately | 02:03 |
| Lava_Croft | you get near-heart attacks all the time | 02:03 |
| ecc3g | I shouldn't. :( | 02:03 |
| Lava_Croft | everytime it moves in a direction i dont want to, i go aaah | 02:03 |
| Lava_Croft | its silly, for a dumb computer | 02:03 |
| Lava_Croft | well, i shout aaah from my mind's mouth:P | 02:03 |
| ecc3g | true... dumb computer that has no replacement other than itself... | 02:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, don't sit on it. that's what most of those "broke my iphone" dudes prolly do | 02:22 |
| ecc3g | how many n900s have succumbed to back pocket forgetfulness? | 02:26 |
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| chainsawbike | n900's are fairly tough though... mine lives in my pocket outside my body armour when i am riding my dirt bike - it has survived numerous crashes unscathed... | 03:16 |
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| Apic | https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/255018_10152027777808272_2089311588_n.jpg | 11:48 |
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| sivang | hi all | 11:49 |
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| sivang | it has been a while since I logged into this channel, glad to see everybody are still here | 11:49 |
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| Venemo_N9 | ~usbfix | 12:03 |
| infobot | rumour has it, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) | 12:03 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 moos at evil daystar | 13:55 | |
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| jaska | werecow | 14:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >> No Real Programmer works 9 to 5. (Unless it's the ones at night.) << ( http://www-personal.edfac.usyd.edu.au/staff/souters/Humour/Real.Programmer.Stories.html ) | 14:17 |
| Lava_Croft | so 80s | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so hard to get right. The text always jumps between sarcasm, cynicism, and damn true statements | 14:19 |
| Lava_Croft | Yeah, but the romantic idea of a' | 14:20 |
| Lava_Croft | er of a 'programmer' is actually not so romantic and its 20years old | 14:20 |
| Lava_Croft | and its overly disgustingly male | 14:20 |
| Lava_Croft | to the point of saturation | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except in "Real Programmers don't wear high heeled shoes." | 14:21 |
| Lava_Croft | probably also the reason why just about any piece of software is shit | 14:21 |
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| Lava_Croft | :) | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably it lacks a "Real Programmers don't participate in emancipation and gender discussions." | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though implicitly included, we have "A Real Programmer goes to discos to watch the light shows." | 14:23 |
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| Lava_Croft | :) | 14:24 |
| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: I was once told by a lead programmer to *avoid* multithread code | 14:24 |
| jon_y | that real enough yet? | 14:25 |
| jon_y | she says it makes code hard to read and understand | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a pity that natural languages have a ubiquitous concept of gender | 14:25 |
| Lava_Croft | it's a pity that was is called a 'real programmer' is always this bro-tastic male person | 14:25 |
| jon_y | also, make sure to hang the main UI so that our users know our app is busy | 14:25 |
| jon_y | definitely not bro for rejecting multithreaded and responsive code | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | from a code efficiency perspective it's just insane to bother about the 2% of female programmers | 14:27 |
| Lava_Croft | that is implying code is effecient :) | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess wemon are too smart to act like real programers | 14:28 |
| Lava_Croft | healthy dose of female improves anything that is overly male | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | code is efficient inside a gzip archive | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, alas we're far away from anything like a healthy dose of female in IT | 14:29 |
| jon_y | instead of a hung UI, why not make a modal progress bar window? | 14:29 |
| jon_y | Nope, multithreaded code is ugly | 14:29 |
| * amin007110 is thinking about: Does restoring those lost+found stuffs have better consequent than reflashing?! according to http://blog.windfluechter.net/content/blog/2011/03/30/1095-updated-automatically-restore-files-lostfound | 14:30 | |
| jon_y | amin007110: very likely has some corruption in them? | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | women* btw | 14:30 |
| amin007110 | jon_y, maybe. | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (code) I consider natural language a code here | 14:31 |
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| jon_y | btw, anybody know if int * a = (int[2]) {1,2}; legal in C? | 14:32 |
| jon_y | kind of funky looking but seems to work | 14:33 |
| jon_y | not sure what kind of search term to put in google | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | coding the article http://www-personal.edfac.usyd.edu.au/staff/souters/Humour/Real.Programmer.Stories.html in a gender neutral way would cause massive drop in code efficiency, that's just not justified given we talk about maybe 0.1% of female subjects that are tr´argeted by that text | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and those 0.1% would probably feel insulted | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since they never forget the name of their husband | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "A Real Programmer might or might not know his wife's name. He does, however, know the entire ASCII (or EBCDIC) code table." | 14:34 |
| jon_y | does a real programmer do VB? | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 14:36 |
| amin007110 | lol | 14:36 |
| jon_y | probably a troll, I saw one at thedailywtf, he said C should inherit single "=" from VB in if/else comparisons | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read the article, a Real Programmer does FORTRAN exclusively (except the few assembler things he uses to tackle the problems that can't get done in FORTRAN) | 14:37 |
| jon_y | I should learn Fortran | 14:37 |
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| jon_y | with C bindings, cause that's where the party's at | 14:37 |
| jon_y | also, real programmers don't do Agile | 14:39 |
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| jon_y | I present to your a custom tree structure in java, with no tree seaarch, nor a way to remove elements after it's added | 14:40 |
| jon_y | since no one thought it through | 14:40 |
| jon_y | in fact, it doesn't even have any public methods | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | methods? | 14:41 |
| jon_y | public interfaces | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | structures? | 14:41 |
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| jon_y | usable functions, oop wise | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not sth a Real Programmer would ever bother with | 14:41 |
| jon_y | everything is inherited | 14:41 |
| jon_y | that kind of bullshit convinced me agile is bullshit | 14:41 |
| jon_y | the reason for such a crappy class was because "customer never asked for anything more that requires it!" | 14:42 |
| jon_y | I gave up trying to refactor the code after a few weeks | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: you honestly need to read http://www-personal.edfac.usyd.edu.au/staff/souters/Humour/Real.Programmer.Stories.html | 14:43 |
| jon_y | sure | 14:43 |
| jon_y | also, everything that uses the tree struct uses typeof instead of proper inheritance | 14:44 |
| jon_y | completly neglecting the purose of OOP to begin with | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>What of the future? It is a matter of some concern to Real Programmers that the latest generation of computer programmers are not being brought up with the same outlook on life as their elders. Many of them have never seen a computer with a front panel. Hardly anyone graduating from school these days can do hex arithmetic without a calculator. College graduates these days are soft -- protected from the realities of programming by source | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | level debuggers, text editors that count parentheses, and "user friendly" operating systems. Worst of all, some of these alleged "computer scientists" manage to get degrees without ever learning FORTRAN! Are we destined to become an industry of Unix hackers and Pascal programmers?<< | 14:45 |
| jon_y | >>Real Programmers aren't afraid to use GOTOs. | 14:45 |
| jon_y | So TRUE | 14:45 |
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| jon_y | java doesn't have gotos because it is pretentious | 14:45 |
| jon_y | neither does it have unsigned integers | 14:45 |
| jon_y | using for(;;)/break as fake goto in java gets tired after awhile | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 14:47 |
| jon_y | so does dealing with programmers that write shell scripts masquerading as java code | 14:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hehehehehehehe muhahaha | 14:47 |
| jon_y | eg using map instead of set for unique objects | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in FORTRAN there's no for(;;) | 14:48 |
| jon_y | well, it's java | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are calculated goto | 14:49 |
| jon_y | I should get promoted to code review nazi at work | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but nothing you couldn't do with smart self-modifying code | 14:49 |
| jon_y | job should come with an armband and a whip, along with stylish designer uniform | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you know how COBOL (and so probably FORTAN as well) do subroutine calls? There's no stack. On entering the the subroutine, the return address gets written to the GOTO at end of the subroutine. Funny when you later on run into same code segment by some other means than a subroutine call | 14:52 |
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| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: I bet it's real fun when it gets ported to harvard archs | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | COBOL is per definitionem not multithreaded | 14:54 |
| jon_y | what about fortran? | 14:54 |
| fizzie | In FORTRAN(-90; not before) you just prepend the word "recursive" in front of subroutine/function, and then the implementation will deal with it however it likes. | 14:55 |
| jon_y | recursive? | 14:55 |
| jon_y | it has to be recursive? | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess they meant reentrant | 14:55 |
| jon_y | does fortran has any concept of static variables? | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but probably that term wasn't minted yet, when FORTRAN90 got defined | 14:56 |
| jon_y | is there a fortran 2003? | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran#Fortran_2008 | 14:57 |
| jon_y | ok, 2008 | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran#Fortran_2003 as well | 14:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | DAMN! FORTRAN2003 introduces function pointers :-D | 15:01 |
| fizzie | And there's a "save" attribute for persistent local variables (close to that meaning of C's 'static') already in FORTRAN-77. | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err procedure pointers, ok ok | 15:01 |
| jon_y | function pointers in my fortran! | 15:02 |
| fizzie | At least they release new versions more often than the C committee. | 15:02 |
| jon_y | I'm waiting for my C11 | 15:02 |
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| jon_y | C99 is pretty complete | 15:02 |
| jon_y | so I'm fine even if it was never updated | 15:03 |
| jon_y | you want functors? go back to c++! | 15:03 |
| jon_y | doing c++ style pure virtuals just fine in C too | 15:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | >>Support for international usage [...] and choice of decimal or comma in numeric formatted input/output.<< LOL! COBOL has "DECIMAL POINT IS COMMA" since dunno 1968 or sth | 15:04 |
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| jon_y | #define , . | 15:05 |
| jon_y | sure is fun | 15:05 |
| mgedmin | is that valid C? | 15:06 |
| fizzie | Shamefully, no. | 15:06 |
| fizzie | (Macro names need to be identifiers.) | 15:06 |
| jon_y | speaking of identifiers, C++ can overload punctuation marks | 15:11 |
| jon_y | I'm still wondering how to use them though | 15:11 |
| jon_y | overloaded operator$ or operator->, operator, | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | golden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran#Humor | 15:12 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 remarks that it's evidently Friday, judging by the topics discussed | 15:14 | |
| Gh0sty | judging by shit that wont work its friday indeed :( | 15:15 |
| Lava_Croft | casual friday | 15:15 |
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| Lava_Croft | ok | 15:17 |
| Lava_Croft | since its friday | 15:17 |
| Lava_Croft | i have the best movie trailer of the year for you | 15:17 |
| Lava_Croft | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iwsqFR5bh6Q | 15:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | awesome words: http://harmful.cat-v.org/cat-v/ | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>Unfortunately their advice has been completely ignored, and today Unix has become overcome by exactly the kind of mistakes they warned against.<< | 15:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 mumbles "busybox" | 15:25 | |
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| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: windows 8 | 15:33 |
| jon_y | taking up 20GB | 15:33 |
| jon_y | I didn't even know cat(1) has arguments | 15:34 |
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| fizzie | POSIX cat(1) only has one; no -v there. ("-u: Write bytes from the input file to the standard output without delay as each is read.") | 15:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | man rev|tac|rev | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | madly useful ;-P | 15:43 |
| kerio | C11 is a lie | 15:45 |
| kerio | also, i have a fully updated MAME romset again! yay! | 15:46 |
| kerio | ls | 15:46 |
| kerio | whoops, wrong window | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cat - - is a tiny bit counter-intuitive in how it works | 15:47 |
| kerio | why? | 15:47 |
| kerio | ls | 15:47 |
| kerio | gaaah, wrong window again | 15:48 |
| kerio | i need to install an eye tracker to switch the window focus | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, scrap that, my mistake | 15:49 |
| kerio | i didn't know stdin could be reopened, from a terminal | 15:49 |
| kerio | so maybe that's kinda strange | 15:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: (eyetracker) brilliant hack | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: (re-opened) it probably isn't | 15:50 |
| kerio | but i typed ^d | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >> | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | If a file is '-', the cat utility shall read from the standard input at | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that point in the sequence. The cat utility shall not close and reopen standard input when it is referenced in this way, but shall accept multiple occurrences of '-' as a | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | file operand. | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | << (man 1p cat) | 15:52 |
| kerio | i see | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think ^D is EOF but not automatically closes the filehandle | 15:53 |
| kerio | hm, makes sense | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after all a file(handle) gets closed by the process that opened it, not by the read() | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just common practice that a process does read() until EOF, then close() | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not all do, though. see tail -f | 15:56 |
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| jon_y | yfw a random Swedish email that was mistaken for spam praise your product after passing through google translate | 16:04 |
| jon_y | can't read Swedish, still is kind of random on a English ML | 16:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | eh? | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever | 17:17 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ponders to port OpenSUSE bash excellence to fremantle bash | 17:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | suse: wc -l /etc/profile 384 /etc/profile | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# wc -l /etc/profile 16 /etc/profile | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://susefaq.sourceforge.net/howto/bash.html though this one is ancient | 17:30 |
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| Lava_Croft | should turn your tweaks into one huge script to use by DEUs | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hm? | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like this? -> | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 17:54 |
| infobot | it has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure I'd adjust the "script" on this wiki page to import a adapted suse /etc/profile (and other related files, particularly for bash-completion) | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but also for keybindings atc. E.G it sucks donkeyballs that fremantle bash doesn't know about history-completion by page-up | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/completion/search/ | 17:57 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: but also for keybindings atc. E.G it sucks donkeyballs that fremantle bash doesn't know about history-search by page-up | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think I need to create an even more general approach, since I see same problem (missing personalization of shell) on other platforms/boxes as well | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | something to not only deploy my ssh pubkey but same time also my shell aliases and whatnot | 17:59 |
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| * amin007110 is thinking about Volleyball match result, Iran vs Germany, 21:30 IRST. | 18:52 | |
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| _nicolai_ | hi, is someone a maintainer for autobuilder? autobuilder does not import new packages. | 18:53 |
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| Apic | http://slashdot.org/topic/datacenter/hp-keeps-installing-secret-backdoors-in-enterprise-storage/ - Epic Fail | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _nicolai_: the problem is known, but we don't have a maintainer | 19:11 |
| Apic | http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/07/science-has-average-penis-size-thing-nailed-down/67105/ | 19:14 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: ping | 19:30 |
| Pali | freemangordon: pong | 19:31 |
| freemangordon | Pali: do you expect me to do anything else re omap_smc3 patch? | 19:32 |
| freemangordon | BTW Dave did one more comment | 19:32 |
| Pali | freemangordon: it is needed something to do with patch? | 19:33 |
| freemangordon | Pali: hmm, I'd say yes :) | 19:33 |
| Pali | Dave wrote something only about comments, right? | 19:34 |
| freemangordon | Pali: remove r12 from stmfd/ldmfd and maybe remove dmb. Maybe I don;t read it correctly | 19:34 |
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| Pali | ok | 19:35 |
| freemangordon | Pali: I guess you should ask | 19:35 |
| freemangordon | Pali: honestly, I have no idea what comment to put for dsb/dmb | 19:35 |
| freemangordon | Pali: besides the already existing comments in omap_smc2() | 19:36 |
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| Apic | http://xkcd.com/1237/ | 19:47 |
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| _nicolai_ | DocScrutinizer05, I would like to help, but I don't know anything about autobilder, is there anything I can do? | 20:31 |
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| merlin1991 | _nicolai_: the problem actually is midgard | 20:56 |
| merlin1991 | _nicolai_: I can manually trigger the import when you ping me | 20:56 |
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| _nicolai_ | merlin1991, please do so. It is for my "ledpulse" package. maemo package interface says: "old version cleaned ..." every 4 hourse. The newest version to import is ledpulse 0.3 | 21:05 |
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| merlin1991 | _nicolai_: done | 21:10 |
| shawnjefferson | is the extras assistant web interface working? i always get "no repository selected" just after upload | 21:19 |
| shawnjefferson | and scp/dput not working for me either | 21:19 |
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| Marshall_Banana | merlin1991: did you already conntact Jonne Nauha because of my maintainer request for dropn900? | 21:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: no, the problem is autobuilder, which is only 10% midgard and 90% friggin scripts | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: and our real problem is autobuilder / repo-management spamming our db with bogus records, until everything explodes | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see ^^^ <_nicolai_> merlin1991, please do so. It is for my "ledpulse" package. maemo package interface says: "old version cleaned ..." every 4 hours | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | other packages do that every 4 minutes | 22:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and I _have_ _to_ shut down this whole stuff when that continues, we already have packages that can't get inspected via package interface since they are simply too long | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I several times explained we have no maintainer for autobuilder, Eero is busy, and x-fade missing in action completely since end of last year | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure you're free to ask teh guys we asked 100 times before, maybe you're more lucky | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I definitely will shut down stuff in a few days, if nothing changes in that regard | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | junk piles up in our db, and no simple means to remove it from there | 22:44 |
| win7mac | stuff like autobilder or stuff like m.o? | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and things approach a degree of fubar where everything comes to a grinding halt anyway, so I hope I will shut it down before ZILCH works anymore | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | win7mac: that depends what's fsckdup when I shut it down | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we already see fatal failures in www.m.o due to oversized package histories | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I won't disable single packages/view/* pages | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if that gets worse that what it already is I will have to take down www.m.o as well | 22:47 |
| win7mac | are you 1000% sure thats not because the raid is 99,9% stuffed? | 22:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | fun detail: when a www.m.o/packages/view/<packagename> page doesn't work anymore, then there's not even a midgard way to delete that whole package, since... the page doesn't work anymore | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, I'm 10000000000000000000000% sure | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 22:49 |
| win7mac | goooooooooooooooood ;-) | 22:49 |
| win7mac | I still just can't believe it... ;) | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you just can't believe what? | 22:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | that a 4 or 6 "removing old package version from repository" every 4 minutes, since January, do eventually result in insanely large web pages on ~packages that result in apache processes stalling or getting killed due to OOM? | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or that we have no means to remove those 500 events per day for a single package from our 946 midgard datatables | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or that I *WILL* shut down everything that is acting self-destructive, in a week the latest | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/findmine/ | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's one of the still working ones | 22:56 |
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| win7mac | still loads... | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least it been a few days ago | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have other ones I don't want to post here since every time somebody clicks them, a apache/php process on www dies from out-of-memory | 22:58 |
| win7mac | I mean, I could think of having so limited and probably heavily fragmented disc-space may add to the trouble already there | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nonsense | 22:59 |
| win7mac | ok | 22:59 |
| win7mac | please don't explain how it works, I trust you ;) | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wish I could explain how it works, actually I can't even explain how it doesn't work | 23:00 |
| win7mac | hm... have no faith in council setting up a mail like discussed in #meeting 3 weeks ago? | 23:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but I can point you to http://monitor.maemo.org/ganglia/?r=hour&cs=&ce=&m=load_one&s=by+name&c=maemo&h=&host_regex=&max_graphs=0&tab=m&vn=&sh=2&z=small&hc=4 | 23:02 |
| win7mac | ^^ I mean that it will have some kind of positive answer? | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're constatly urging me to c&p what I wrote 15 min or hours or sometimes days before | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I several times explained we have no maintainer for autobuilder, Eero is busy, and x-fade missing in action completely since end of last year | 23:03 |
| win7mac | yeah and there was an idea | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-12 21:42:01] <DocScrutinizer05> sure you're free to ask teh guys we asked 100 times before, maybe you're more lucky | 23:03 |
| win7mac | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2013-06-21.log.html#t2013-06-21T22:35:04 | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not my business, ther are other 4 council members | 23:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I outright refuse to take track of everything | 23:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I announced burnout some 3 months ago | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what makes you think things changed to the better for me? | 23:07 |
| win7mac | don't you see I understand that and try to help out? | 23:08 |
| win7mac | I'll ping thedead | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2013-06-21.log.html#t2013-06-21T22:43:25 | 23:14 |
| win7mac | I know. and indeed there are some more councilors over here, sopposedly... | 23:15 |
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| win7mac | ~ seen chem|st | 23:25 |
| infobot | chem|st is currently on #maemo #harmattan #maemo-ssu, last said: 'pong'. | 23:25 |
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| shawnjefferson | what happened to that guy (jacewoski?) that said he'd help out with autobuilder? | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he thought it's unbearable to coordinate own actions with sysops | 23:38 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: the problem though stopping everything from running is 1 script that does not run thanks to a problem with midgard | 23:39 |
| merlin1991 | so yes I can pinpoint it down to midgard | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to me it seems there's too much running | 23:40 |
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| shawnjefferson | ah, so there was some process he didn't want to follow. Are all the scripts well understood? with all the smart guys around here, it seems impossible that it can't be understood and hopefully tweaked to work better. Ideally it would be nice to have a dev/test environment for all this... they are virtual right? | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's not feasible | 23:44 |
| shawnjefferson | not feasible due to money? resources? | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | resources | 23:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we need ~4..6 VM running concurrently | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if not more | 23:45 |
| shawnjefferson | for dev/test someone could run that on their workstation | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good luck | 23:45 |
| win7mac | anthonie tried that, right? - progress so far? | 23:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anthonie tried to install ONE vm with midgard1 | 23:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | midgard is mysql based however | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and we can't clone that db in one complete chunk, since it has sensitive data as well | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it is the 2nd vm in that picture | 23:50 |
| shawnjefferson | not install, clone. it's how it would be handled in an enterprise. i understand there are constraints here though. without a "playground" it's impossible to make significant changes or test things like upgrades | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | garage with postgresql is 3rd | 23:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | autbuilder 4th | 23:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | repo 5th | 23:51 |
| shawnjefferson | sensitive data, I assumed so. you'd have to clone and then scrub the sensitive data. a big job for sure, but worth it imo | 23:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, if we find somebody to do that, he can en passant fix the problems we face right now | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for sure the competence any such person needs for doing that clonig&scrubbing is sufficient to fix the simple little bugs we have right now easily | 23:53 |
| shawnjefferson | I imagine that would take a small team | 23:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | for example we have scripts with hardcoded mysql account credentials | 23:54 |
| shawnjefferson | ugly but not surprising | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and sure, same credentials are in db VM in mysql as well | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have passwd files with 30k user accounts, same for groups | 23:55 |
| shawnjefferson | at some point you need to make a balance between operations and security and some folks need to be trusted | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, but I won't hand out clones of our sensitive data | 23:56 |
| win7mac | would the invest in a 3rd blade make sense to have those vm's needed for testing? They could later be used for other purposes | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it would help | 23:57 |
| shawnjefferson | I wouldn't either (security is my day job). what would we need to have our own dev environment at iphh, under our (your) control? | 23:57 |
| shawnjefferson | a new blade? some storage? | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 23:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we've already set up a very limited test env for www VM | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with a local mysql to emulate the central one | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to test midgard upgrade etc | 23:59 |
| shawnjefferson | to me it sounds like that is quickly becoming a priority, especially with all the interactions between m.o. systems | 23:59 |
| win7mac | *new blade, some storage and some testers! | 23:59 |
| shawnjefferson | testers and admins | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no manpower to pursue it further | 23:59 |
| shawnjefferson | and some oversight/planning | 23:59 |
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