| GogoPogo | ok ok, it was a user permission related issue | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| GogoPogo | it still behaves strangely | 00:00 |
| GogoPogo | I want to reflash my phone | 00:00 |
| GogoPogo | the file /etc/network/interfaces lists 3 network cards: lo, eth0, usb0 | 00:02 |
| GogoPogo | but ifconfig finds way more interfaces | 00:02 |
| GogoPogo | normal? | 00:02 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: and what do you expect? | 00:02 |
| freemangordon | phonet0 is GPRS | 00:03 |
| GogoPogo | I'm trying to learn | 00:03 |
| freemangordon | ooh, ok :) | 00:03 |
| GogoPogo | upnlink0 is wifi? | 00:04 |
| *** BigBoxDriver has quit IRC | 00:04 | |
| freemangordon | hmm, no idea | 00:04 |
| GogoPogo | if they are listed inside ifconfig results I should be able to edit their parameters somewhere inside the root shouldn't I? | 00:05 |
| GogoPogo | make believe I want to edit mac addresses? | 00:05 |
| *** _rd has joined #maemo | 00:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why would you want to do that? | 00:06 |
| GogoPogo | I'm used to changing my MAC addresses on and off on PC | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | .oO(???) | 00:07 |
| GogoPogo | Doc! I can't complete my Backup.. is there another way to copy all the /home folder at least? | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm used to shooting my foot with a frozen cherry every now and then | 00:08 |
| GogoPogo | PC Suite always fails | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whf pc suite? sounds like windows. sorry no idea what's on windows | 00:09 |
| GogoPogo | Doc.. why ? I change my ethernet netcard mac... | 00:09 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: you don;t need to use PC Cuite to make backups | 00:10 |
| GogoPogo | I thought you were referring to backing it all up with Nokia PC Suite... how do you suggest I back it up? | 00:10 |
| freemangordon | BUT... | 00:10 |
| freemangordon | backup does not mean "copying the whole /home" | 00:10 |
| GogoPogo | yeah I know | 00:11 |
| freemangordon | if you want to copy that on yoiyr PC, install WinSCP and use that | 00:11 |
| GogoPogo | at least that would be good to me | 00:11 |
| freemangordon | *your | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm | 00:11 |
| infobot | it has been said that backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 00:11 |
| freemangordon | and there is "backup" application | 00:11 |
| freemangordon | and what DocScrutinizer05 said, BM | 00:12 |
| GogoPogo | backup application works smoothly | 00:12 |
| GogoPogo | I'll go for backupmenu | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they serve complementary purposes | 00:13 |
| GogoPogo | yeah I got it | 00:13 |
| *** konelix_ has joined #maemo | 00:14 | |
| GogoPogo | Doc, is there a list of network interfaces names correspondences? like phone0 = GPRS? | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 00:15 |
| *** _rd has quit IRC | 00:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think most of them are pretty self-explaining | 00:15 |
| GogoPogo | not to me :\ | 00:16 |
| *** sq-one has quit IRC | 00:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, you don't usually bother about them anyway | 00:16 |
| GogoPogo | but I do! | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | last time I had to *do* sth about that been ~3 years ago when I traced phonet IF with wireshark | 00:17 |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 00:17 | |
| *** konelix has quit IRC | 00:17 | |
| GogoPogo | well the mac address I'll be messing with is the wlan0 anyway | 00:18 |
| GogoPogo | so I recognize that name corresponds to wifi card | 00:18 |
| GogoPogo | but there are plenty more and I'm so curious :) | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway there are only 4: lo phonet0 wlan0 wmaster0 | 00:18 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: iirc wlan and BT MAC addresses are kept in CAL ;) | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and probably gprs when you're logged in to GSM | 00:19 |
| GogoPogo | CAL stands for? | 00:19 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: usb0 may appear too as some other if connected to pc suite | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 00:19 |
| GogoPogo | yeah indeed it appears | 00:19 |
| freemangordon | ~CAL | 00:20 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, cal is a calendar. try $(cal 1752) | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all pretty self-explanatory | 00:20 |
| freemangordon | hmm :( | 00:20 |
| GogoPogo | I have others though | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~liskeys cal | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | won't fly | 00:20 |
| freemangordon | yep :) | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys cal | 00:20 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'cal' by key (16 of 335): /usr/local ;; bcalc ;; calendars for the web ;; calvarez ;; classical ;; cpu scaling ;; debian things > 2mb of locale files ;; don't recall which ;; dos call ;; fcal ;; iirc, the xcalibrate ;; jargon automagically ;; jargon canonical ;; libical ;; mscal2html ;; mythical man month. | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalue talk.maemo.org | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues talk.maemo.org | 00:21 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'talk.maemo.org' by value (18 of 35): #maemo bnf ;; #maemo donate ;; #maemo kp ;; #maemo mirror ;; #maemo truecrypt ;; #maemo u-boot ;; #maemo vkbd-portrait ;; aegis-no-thanks ;; alopex ;; backupmenu ;; bq-calibrate ;; cssu-thumb ;; ereswap ;; flashplayer ;; hen ;; hostmode ;; hostmode-powered ;; hotswap. | 00:21 |
| GogoPogo | I have: lo, e:0, ier:0, phonet0, er:0, upnlink0, :0, me:0, rier:0, wmaster0, :0 again | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc, never seen | 00:22 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: "Configuration Access Library" | 00:22 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/libcal/blobs/27df167a08103f060f297cbdfec2a360e5d1eec4/src/cal.c#line4 | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, I dunno if changing wlan MAC is that easily done | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: eh? | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? | 00:23 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: in case you want CAL in the factoid | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I know that | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~#maemo CAL is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20465 | 00:23 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay | 00:23 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: AFAIK wlan MAC is read from CAL end send to kernel via a netlink socket or whatever was it called | 00:25 |
| freemangordon | *and | 00:25 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: not sure how easy is to be changed | 00:25 |
| GogoPogo | I usually set a line inside /etc/network/interfaces | 00:26 |
| GogoPogo | below the card namehwaddress <address> | 00:26 |
| freemangordon | well, try it, it might work | 00:26 |
| *** M4rtinK has joined #maemo | 00:26 | |
| freemangordon | chances are low, but still | 00:27 |
| GogoPogo | hwaddress <address> | 00:27 |
| GogoPogo | where do I exactly find the CAL? | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cal | 00:27 |
| infobot | i guess cal is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20465 | 00:27 |
| freemangordon | ^^^ :) | 00:27 |
| *** arcean has joined #maemo | 00:27 | |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: you need libcal | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but you don't want to do that, honestly | 00:28 |
| freemangordon | and some code to use it | 00:28 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: :nod: | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's actually the only way to thoroughly brick your N900 | 00:28 |
| GogoPogo | HAM hasn't got it | 00:29 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: which one, libcal? | 00:29 |
| GogoPogo | yeah | 00:29 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: you have that preinstalled | 00:29 |
| freemangordon | but need some code to use it | 00:29 |
| freemangordon | libcal is closed source and no documentation is available ;) | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm honestly failing to get the approach GogoPogo is taking on a new unknown system | 00:30 |
| GogoPogo | sh*t :) | 00:30 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: honestly, you'd better follow DocScrutinizer05's advice ant not play with CAL | 00:30 |
| GogoPogo | Doc, is there a good approach? | 00:30 |
| freemangordon | *and | 00:30 |
| *** florian has joined #maemo | 00:30 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe one: don't use root or sudo for first 6 months | 00:31 |
| freemangordon | :) | 00:31 |
| GogoPogo | non sense! :) | 00:31 |
| tadzik | unless you're adventurous ;) | 00:32 |
| GogoPogo | maemo is linux and linux is fun... I should sell it back otherwise :D | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you know what su tells you? with great power comes great responsibility | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should know your shit before you mess with it | 00:32 |
| GogoPogo | so ? It's my phone.... | 00:32 |
| *** thomasjfox_ has joined #maemo | 00:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's our nerves | 00:32 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: really, the only way to make your n900 unusable is to mess with CAL, everything else can be fixed | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I honestly fail to see why you would need to change MAC, to start with | 00:33 |
| *** thomasjfox has quit IRC | 00:34 | |
| GogoPogo | I'll try not to touch it /angel face/, I haven't found it yet anyway /devil face/ | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not even experienced users/devels ever asked for it | 00:34 |
| *** thomasjfox_ is now known as thomasjfox | 00:34 | |
| GogoPogo | doc... mac address can be retrieved by packets deep analysis | 00:34 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: on the other hand you're right, it is your device, here is libcal replacement source code https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/libcal | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errr .....k | 00:34 |
| GogoPogo | it usually can be changed.. | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably even by not-so-deep "analysis" | 00:35 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: You have to figure out what needs to be done to change tha MAC address in CAL | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your statements make no sense | 00:35 |
| GogoPogo | so what? You agree with me it can be found, and it can be used to identify your machine | 00:35 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: use iptables | 00:36 |
| freemangordon | if you think your MAC needs to be changed | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, an APN would be able to associate your MAC to your device | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what a MAC is used for | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | AP | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not APN | 00:36 |
| GogoPogo | freemangordon: iptables is an app? | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but so what again? the AP/hotspot will need to authenticate you anyway, unless you're using public open hotspots | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and - just in case you suffer a misconception here - the traffic from AP to internet at alrge does _not_ carry your MAC | 00:38 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 00:38 |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: ask google for iptables | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I completely fail to see the purpose of this stuff you plan to do | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you're an evil blackhat | 00:39 |
| GogoPogo | Doc, you're not supposed to. I don't understand why you want me to justify.. | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that plans to penetrate some company's WLAN and still you don't want to throw away your N900 after having committed the crime | 00:40 |
| GogoPogo | ahahaha | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GogoPogo: simply because you're asking nonsensical questions that nobody else would ever benefit from if we waste hours to explain all that stuff to you | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if that latter is what you plan: forget it, IT forensics can identify your device even when you changed the MAC | 00:42 |
| GogoPogo | :D | 00:42 |
| GogoPogo | that's paranoia Doc, something I suffer from and can't help doing | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are other ways than simple MAC addr to identify a platform and even a particular wlan chipset | 00:43 |
| *** thomasjfox has quit IRC | 00:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly suggest to color your hair twice a day and waer another sunglasses every 10 min | 00:43 |
| GogoPogo | you got it :D | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | changing MAC is mere nonsense | 00:44 |
| GogoPogo | well, many would disagree | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | completely useless for anything I could think of | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's exactly one usecase for MAC change: when you want to fake another WLAN client, on an AP with MAC filter | 00:45 |
| *** xes has joined #maemo | 00:45 | |
| freemangordon | GogoPogo: it is useless, MAC lives only in LAN, the first router you're connected to changes your MAC with its own (to put it simplified) | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I said that | 00:46 |
| freemangordon | yep, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_spoofing | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you hope to stay anonymous when you use same public hotspot several times, then forget it as well. Your traffic patterns will expose your identity | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so changing your MAC onkly shows you're rogue but silly and hope to hide something | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unlike MAC, your traffic patterns _will_ propagate to larger internet | 00:49 |
| Pali | sometimes you need to change MAC if ipv6 priv address not working in open network (and you do not want to use calculated public ipv6 address from mac) | 00:50 |
| freemangordon | Pali: n900 does not have ipv6 (by default) :) | 00:50 |
| GogoPogo | Doc, you're indirectly saying that I'm silly, like I offended you.. really.. chill out. That's getting kinda tiresome. | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, i say what you plan to do is silly, unless there's some very obscure sound rationale that we all fail to see | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so far your reasoning why you want to change MAC wasn't convincing | 00:53 |
| GogoPogo | I don't need to convince you in order to talk on here | 00:53 |
| *** shamus has quit IRC | 00:53 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's plain useless for all purposes you gave hint towards and we tried to figure | 00:53 |
| *** shamus has joined #maemo | 00:53 | |
| *** andre__ has quit IRC | 00:53 | |
| Pali | freemangordon: mine has :-) | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, you don't. But you will lose my support (and probably everybody else's) when you ask for stuff that nobody sees a good reason it should get done at all | 00:54 |
| GogoPogo | it's not plain useless, you can find many good and bad reason, and Pali wrote down one | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and now I'm done with that, and afk | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just one last advice: don't touch CAL, you lack the mandatory skills for that | 00:55 |
| *** darodi has quit IRC | 00:56 | |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 00:57 | |
| GogoPogo | lol, all boils down to skills ownership.. like it wasn't obvious I lack them.. it's good to stress it isn't it? | 00:57 |
| Pali | btw, if you want to change mac address, why not to use ifconfig/ip or udev script? | 00:57 |
| GogoPogo | thanks for your time, I won't bother with nonsense anymore | 00:57 |
| GogoPogo | Pali, I was trying in fact :) | 00:58 |
| Pali | $ sudo ip link set dev "$interface" address "$mac_address" | 00:58 |
| Pali | install package iproute2 from extras-devel which contains command ip | 00:59 |
| Pali | this *should* work for changing mac address | 00:59 |
| GogoPogo | thanks a lot! I'll try right away | 00:59 |
| ecc3g | will mosh (mobile shell) be accepted into the repo at some point? | 01:00 |
| Pali | ecc3g, is there debian source package for that application? | 01:01 |
| ecc3g | or is it just the usual 'needs a maintainer'... | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ecc3g: maybe, maybe not. Might have immanent power consumption issues | 01:01 |
| ecc3g | no clue... haven't seen one, just raw src | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which should rule it out on testing. So it wouldn't go to extras, and stay in extras-devel | 01:02 |
| ecc3g | curious how it does, say vs straight ssh, for power drain... | 01:04 |
| *** valerius2k is now known as valeriusN | 01:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc mosh protocol specs rely on very frequent keep-alive pings, that are by design a bug/flaw for mobile apps | 01:05 |
| ecc3g | yow | 01:05 |
| Pali | why to use mosh instead ssh?? | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since it cuts thru your battery in no time, when on 3G | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mosh is broken by design | 01:06 |
| ecc3g | yes that would suck... was hoping it would do the opposite - sendling chunks vs individual characters like ssh | 01:06 |
| cehteh | i'd wish for a ssh with a local readline option | 01:07 |
| ecc3g | thats what mosh sounded like... | 01:07 |
| *** Win7Mac has joined #maemo | 01:07 | |
| ecc3g | false advertising? | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a big hoax | 01:07 |
| cehteh | only tab and return and certain control command send data and it watches when the terminal is switched into raw mode | 01:08 |
| cehteh | i tried mosh from a laptop to server, its useful if you have high latency links, but it is not power efficient | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, afaik that's what ssh does, when configured correctly | 01:08 |
| cehteh | there are uses for it | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which results in ^C or ^D not working until you hit enter | 01:09 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: tell me how please | 01:09 |
| cehteh | iirc it can not do it | 01:09 |
| cehteh | ssh sends each and every keystroke | 01:09 |
| cehteh | (maybe it batches a few milliseconds together) | 01:10 |
| Pali | it depends on your pts and terminal emulator what will be sent | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask aunt google for "^C not working via ssh" OWTTE, and then see what they recommend to avoid. That's what you want to _do_ then ;-) | 01:10 |
| Pali | and shell | 01:10 |
| Pali | I think that there is no better protocol for remote shell | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can define buffer fill threshold, buffer expiry time, and transmissions initiation chars, iirc | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | today's standard config is buffer-fill-treshold=0 | 01:12 |
| *** brkn has left #maemo | 01:12 | |
| ecc3g | would be nice if there was something that would auto goto line mode in readline apps, and eat power in vim... but remote echo still works when in line mode (faked) | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or = 256 or sth and a timeout os 0.1s | 01:13 |
| ecc3g | it is not always easy to detect... but always wishes out there. | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: yes, exactly. Mosh is for high-latency situations | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably invented in times of GSM CSD | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or acoustic couplers ;-P | 01:17 |
| *** hardaker has joined #maemo | 01:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the beloved "datenklo" | 01:17 |
| ecc3g | shell over satellite | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or that, good point | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they still have datarates of 4800baud usually | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and a RTT of >1s | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (via sat phones and the like) | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | barely sufficient to poll your email | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | here you are: https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-04-18.log.html#t2012-04-18T18:39:03 | 01:25 |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 01:27 | |
| *** fastlane` has quit IRC | 01:28 | |
| *** ron0062000 has joined #maemo | 01:32 | |
| *** CaCO3 has quit IRC | 01:33 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on hindsight, my final verdict on mosh back when should've been "yes, mosh acts almost like ssh - when you press backspace in ssh every 3s" | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wcdma/3G never will stop sending, the timeout is longer than 3s iirc | 01:36 |
| *** LauRoman has quit IRC | 01:39 | |
| *** Martix has quit IRC | 01:43 | |
| *** ron0062000 has quit IRC | 01:43 | |
| *** valeriusN has left #maemo | 01:43 | |
| *** konelix_ has quit IRC | 01:48 | |
| miniyo | hi, anyone has debian chroot with testing? it wants to upgrade libc6, which says it needs a more recent kernel | 01:48 |
| miniyo | and upgrading it seems a must for some essential packages | 01:49 |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 01:52 | |
| *** valerius2k is now known as valeriusN | 01:52 | |
| *** valeriusN has left #maemo | 01:52 | |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 01:53 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: >>Mosh doesn't fill up network buffers, so Control-C always works to halt a runaway process<< -- and see `man stty` | 01:57 |
| Pali | hahahahaha | 02:05 |
| Pali | somebody does not know about pts and terminal emulator, so creating mosh? | 02:06 |
| *** futpib has joined #maemo | 02:07 | |
| *** eijk_ has joined #maemo | 02:10 | |
| *** eijk has quit IRC | 02:10 | |
| *** smoove has joined #maemo | 02:15 | |
| *** smoove has left #maemo | 02:15 | |
| *** M4rtinK has quit IRC | 02:16 | |
| *** Psi has quit IRC | 02:18 | |
| *** Psi has joined #maemo | 02:18 | |
| *** valerius2k has quit IRC | 02:26 | |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 02:27 | |
| *** valerius2k is now known as valeriusN | 02:27 | |
| *** hardaker has quit IRC | 02:28 | |
| *** valeriusN has left #maemo | 02:32 | |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 02:32 | |
| *** valerius2k has quit IRC | 02:34 | |
| *** vblazquez has quit IRC | 02:38 | |
| *** Pali has quit IRC | 02:39 | |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 02:41 | |
| *** valerius2k is now known as valeriusN | 02:42 | |
| *** Win7Mac has quit IRC | 02:46 | |
| *** eijk_ has quit IRC | 02:48 | |
| *** royden has joined #maemo | 02:52 | |
| *** royden has quit IRC | 02:55 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: man 3 cbreak | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: we're getting closer | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: my suggestion about aunt google was a tad... unspecific | 02:56 |
| *** xes has quit IRC | 02:57 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: info:/libc/Noncanonical Input | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | > >The MIN slot is only meaningful in noncanonical input mode; it specifies the minimum number of bytes that must be available in the input queue in order for `read' to return.<< | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | > >The TIME slot is only meaningful in noncanonical input mode; it specifies how long to wait for input before returning, in units of 0.1 seconds.<< | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but yes, it seems there's no option to make nifty stuff like "send on NL" happen | 03:11 |
| *** arcean has quit IRC | 03:17 | |
| *** OkropNick has quit IRC | 03:20 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: though there's those obscure tabN, crN etc "delay mode settings" which I have no clue what they do | 03:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might be delays to allow slow tty to move carriage before next char to type gets sent, after cr, nl, tab, del, ... | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but then I fail to grok why most have only 0|1, just cr has 0|1|2|3 | 03:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if those were delays, they should have a parameter in fractions of a second, not 2 or 4 modes | 03:41 |
| *** GogoPogo has quit IRC | 03:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so might be: cr0->don't send buffer on cr; cr1->send buffer on cr; cr2->send buffer on cr+nl, cr3->send buffer on nl+cr | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tab1->send buffer on tab, aso... | 03:44 |
| *** mvp has quit IRC | 03:51 | |
| *** T_X1 has joined #maemo | 04:11 | |
| T_X1 | I'm currently trying to chroot into a debootstrapped debian-sid, but looks like 2.6.28 (power kernel) is too old (FATAL: kernel too old). any ideas what else I could try? | 04:12 |
| T_X1 | is there an easy way to get a newer kernel version running or would that be a little more tricky? | 04:14 |
| *** zammy has quit IRC | 04:15 | |
| T_X1 | (actually I just want to get opusenc running on maemo, but looks like that isn't in maemo, not even the community ssu. and thought a debootstrap would be the easiest way) | 04:15 |
| rikanee | T_X1: you're SOL, the glibc's targeted 2.6.32, IIRC | 04:16 |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 04:17 | |
| *** hardaker has joined #maemo | 04:22 | |
| T_X1 | rikanee: hm, okay. thx. do you happen to know what the minimum kernel would be for debian-wheezy (which has opus-tools, too, I think)? or how to figure that out? | 04:24 |
| T_X1 | otherwise, I guess I'll just have to try | 04:24 |
| *** at1as has quit IRC | 04:24 | |
| rikanee | Debian's minimum supported kernel is the last supported one on kernel.org at time of release, which is ~2.6.32 (Wheezy) | 04:26 |
| rikanee | that makes Squeeze the last version of Debian supported by Maemo kernel | 04:26 |
| T_X1 | rikanee: hm, okay, thx. though squeeze doesn't have opus-tools, hm | 04:27 |
| *** at1as has joined #maemo | 04:27 | |
| rikanee | T_X1: you're just going to have to build it, I guess | 04:27 |
| T_X1 | oki doki | 04:28 |
| *** hardfalcon has quit IRC | 04:41 | |
| *** marainein has joined #maemo | 04:48 | |
| *** kimitake has joined #maemo | 04:48 | |
| *** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle | 04:49 | |
| *** hardaker has quit IRC | 04:49 | |
| *** hardfalcon has joined #maemo | 04:54 | |
| *** maybeArgh has joined #maemo | 05:00 | |
| *** louisdk has joined #maemo | 05:01 | |
| *** maybeWTF has quit IRC | 05:03 | |
| *** hardaker has joined #maemo | 05:06 | |
| *** hardaker has quit IRC | 05:11 | |
| *** GI_Jack has joined #maemo | 05:23 | |
| *** uen| has joined #maemo | 05:26 | |
| *** shawnjefferson has joined #maemo | 05:27 | |
| shawnjefferson | GogoPogo: you want to change your wlan mac get macchanger package. or cleven which gives you a gui to that package | 05:28 |
| *** uen has quit IRC | 05:29 | |
| *** uen| is now known as uen | 05:29 | |
| shawnjefferson | if you're pentesting and want to try throw the blue team off, be careful not to connect with your real mac first. ;) | 05:30 |
| *** futpib has quit IRC | 05:36 | |
| *** futpib has joined #maemo | 05:39 | |
| *** T_X1 has quit IRC | 05:43 | |
| *** louisdk has quit IRC | 05:53 | |
| *** unclouded has joined #maemo | 05:58 | |
| *** dockane has joined #maemo | 06:00 | |
| *** lxp1 has joined #maemo | 06:01 | |
| *** dockane_ has quit IRC | 06:03 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC | 06:03 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo | 06:03 | |
| *** lxp has quit IRC | 06:04 | |
| *** shawnjefferson has quit IRC | 06:14 | |
| *** GI_Jack has quit IRC | 06:31 | |
| *** louisdk has joined #maemo | 06:32 | |
| *** louisdk has quit IRC | 06:36 | |
| *** louisdk has joined #maemo | 06:37 | |
| *** valeriusN has quit IRC | 07:03 | |
| *** LaoLang_cool has joined #maemo | 07:16 | |
| *** LaoLang_cool has quit IRC | 07:19 | |
| *** VDVsx has quit IRC | 07:38 | |
| *** nox- has quit IRC | 07:46 | |
| *** futpib has quit IRC | 07:49 | |
| *** oldtopman has joined #maemo | 07:51 | |
| *** githogori has joined #maemo | 08:00 | |
| *** VDVsx has joined #maemo | 08:12 | |
| *** oldtopman has quit IRC | 08:29 | |
| *** lbt has quit IRC | 08:34 | |
| *** lbt_ has joined #maemo | 08:35 | |
| *** lbt_ has quit IRC | 08:35 | |
| *** lbt_ has joined #maemo | 08:35 | |
| *** CaCO3 has joined #maemo | 08:39 | |
| *** Vlad_on_the_road has joined #maemo | 08:47 | |
| *** vblazquez has joined #maemo | 08:51 | |
| *** FredrIQ has joined #maemo | 08:52 | |
| *** Vlad_on_the_road has quit IRC | 08:53 | |
| *** CaCO3 has quit IRC | 08:53 | |
| *** FIQ has quit IRC | 08:56 | |
| *** FredrIQ is now known as FIQ | 08:56 | |
| *** dhbiker has joined #maemo | 08:58 | |
| *** vblazquez has quit IRC | 09:15 | |
| *** M4rtinK has joined #maemo | 09:20 | |
| *** XATRIX has joined #maemo | 09:31 | |
| *** eijk_ has joined #maemo | 09:36 | |
| *** M4rtinK has quit IRC | 09:45 | |
| *** zammy has joined #maemo | 09:47 | |
| *** darodi has joined #maemo | 09:53 | |
| *** fastlane` has joined #maemo | 09:54 | |
| *** darodi has quit IRC | 09:58 | |
| *** fastlane` has quit IRC | 10:00 | |
| *** LauRoman has joined #maemo | 10:00 | |
| *** FlameReaper has joined #maemo | 10:06 | |
| *** fastlane` has joined #maemo | 10:11 | |
| *** fastlane` has quit IRC | 10:11 | |
| *** fastlane` has joined #maemo | 10:13 | |
| *** rikanee has quit IRC | 10:21 | |
| *** darodi has joined #maemo | 10:25 | |
| *** utanapischti has quit IRC | 10:29 | |
| *** utanapischti has joined #maemo | 10:29 | |
| *** Martix has joined #maemo | 10:36 | |
| *** croppa has joined #maemo | 10:53 | |
| *** kolp has joined #maemo | 10:59 | |
| *** qwazix has quit IRC | 11:01 | |
| *** qwazix has joined #maemo | 11:02 | |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo | 11:07 | |
| *** andre__ has joined #maemo | 11:08 | |
| *** andre__ has quit IRC | 11:08 | |
| *** andre__ has joined #maemo | 11:08 | |
| *** AD-N770 has joined #maemo | 11:08 | |
| *** Pali has joined #maemo | 11:12 | |
| *** rikanee has joined #maemo | 11:18 | |
| *** kolp has quit IRC | 11:23 | |
| *** rikanee has quit IRC | 11:25 | |
| *** rikanee has joined #maemo | 11:26 | |
| *** r00t|n900 has quit IRC | 11:26 | |
| *** dhbiker has quit IRC | 11:30 | |
| *** geaaru has joined #maemo | 11:31 | |
| *** dhbiker has joined #maemo | 11:32 | |
| *** OkropNick has joined #maemo | 11:37 | |
| *** fastlane`` has joined #maemo | 11:40 | |
| *** fastlane` has quit IRC | 11:40 | |
| *** r00t|n900 has joined #maemo | 11:50 | |
| *** sunny_s has joined #maemo | 11:52 | |
| *** sunny_s has quit IRC | 11:54 | |
| *** futpib has joined #maemo | 11:55 | |
| *** fastlane` has joined #maemo | 11:59 | |
| *** fastlane`` has quit IRC | 12:03 | |
| *** sunny_s has joined #maemo | 12:05 | |
| *** LauRoman has quit IRC | 12:11 | |
| *** sunny_s has quit IRC | 12:19 | |
| *** fastlane` has quit IRC | 12:23 | |
| *** r00t|n900 has quit IRC | 12:24 | |
| *** RP_ has quit IRC | 12:25 | |
| *** valerius has quit IRC | 12:30 | |
| *** lbt_ has quit IRC | 12:32 | |
| *** lbt has joined #maemo | 12:32 | |
| *** lbt has quit IRC | 12:32 | |
| *** lbt has joined #maemo | 12:32 | |
| *** dhbiker has quit IRC | 12:33 | |
| *** dhbiker has joined #maemo | 12:35 | |
| *** fastlane` has joined #maemo | 12:48 | |
| *** vi__ has joined #maemo | 12:53 | |
| vi__ | word. | 12:53 |
| *** RP_ has joined #maemo | 13:02 | |
| *** fastlane`` has joined #maemo | 13:07 | |
| *** royjaber has joined #maemo | 13:07 | |
| sixwheeledbeast | o/ | 13:09 |
| royjaber | hi | 13:09 |
| *** fastlane` has quit IRC | 13:09 | |
| *** royjaber has left #maemo | 13:10 | |
| *** Malinux has quit IRC | 13:22 | |
| *** malin_ has joined #maemo | 13:25 | |
| *** lizardo has joined #maemo | 13:25 | |
| *** malin_ is now known as Malinux | 13:27 | |
| divVerent | damn, I have a package here (librlog5) from Debian that cannot be uploaded via the Extras assistant | 13:28 |
| divVerent | the assistant does not ask for one of the two source files | 13:28 |
| divVerent | had hoped it'll ask later, but it did not | 13:28 |
| divVerent | waiting for my ssh key to get added then so I can dput | 13:28 |
| *** louisdk has quit IRC | 13:29 | |
| *** louisdk has joined #maemo | 13:32 | |
| divVerent | would BTW guess this build had the very same issue: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2013-May/108901.html | 13:34 |
| tadzik | hahaa, MWN: "talk.maemo.org reorginaziation moves Jolla/Sailfish into a primary subforum" | 13:39 |
| tadzik | not sure if accidental, or perfect troll | 13:40 |
| divVerent | we need to reinvent MS comic chat... so it finds fitting meme images for lines where applicable... e.g. in your case it should have shown the futurama guy pic | 13:41 |
| divVerent | if there is no match at all, it'll screw up spelling and use a cat | 13:41 |
| *** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo | 13:42 | |
| *** SmilybOrg is now known as Guest98559 | 13:42 | |
| *** SmilyOrg has quit IRC | 13:45 | |
| Apic | A wonderful Pungenday to You all. | 13:48 |
| *** Pali has quit IRC | 13:53 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tadzik: help me out plz dont see the pun | 13:54 |
| tadzik | DocScrutinizer05: reorgiNAZIation | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh | 13:59 |
| tadzik | not sure if that even qualifies as a pun, just a Fruedian slip of some sort, probably ;) | 13:59 |
| *** unclouded has quit IRC | 14:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as the author ;-) | 14:01 |
| *** Malinux has quit IRC | 14:03 | |
| *** malin_ has joined #maemo | 14:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | friggin DHL, once again "wasn't able to deliver" a package to me, so I now need to figure where to pick up my MX5500 | 14:03 |
| *** malin_ is now known as Malinux | 14:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | asK* the author ;-) | 14:05 |
| *** Vanadis_ has quit IRC | 14:06 | |
| *** Vanadis has joined #maemo | 14:07 | |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: I have a friend with that mouse not keen on the scroll wheel. | 14:09 |
| divVerent | what is the cause of this: | 14:11 |
| divVerent | [2013-05-28 11:07:01] REJECTED: Can't find 'architecture' field in dsc file | 14:11 |
| divVerent | the .dsc contains the field | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest compare to a working .dsc | 14:11 |
| divVerent | yes, this one has linux-any kfreebsd-any | 14:12 |
| divVerent | a working one has just any | 14:12 |
| divVerent | so that's what I am trying now | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh lol, even better: DHL tracking has "wasn't able to deliver" but the package was in front of my door | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: I'd be willing to buy the mouse | 14:14 |
| sixwheeledbeast | He likes it I hate it :) | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: what's his objections against the wheel? | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 14:14 |
| *** qwqwqwerrr has joined #maemo | 14:15 | |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: that is nice... so, send that to the vendor and get a second item :) | 14:15 |
| divVerent | j/k | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tempting | 14:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | smooth mode has no feedback and bumpy mode isn't bumpy enough. but I am being fussy TBH. | 14:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I like the rechargeable battery and darklaser thing works very well on any surface. | 14:16 |
| *** fastlane`` has quit IRC | 14:18 | |
| *** fastlane` has joined #maemo | 14:21 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how ould a feedback for smoothmode look like? | 14:25 |
| *** qwqwqwerrr has quit IRC | 14:25 | |
| sixwheeledbeast | lol. I mean you feel like you are not in control of it. :P | 14:25 |
| *** valeriusN has joined #maemo | 14:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on the too soft bumpy mode, I can completely understand. That's why in my MX Revolution during 3rd fixing I increased the load of the spring doing the bumps | 14:26 |
| sixwheeledbeast | give it an aggressive swipe and you could be in Africa... | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the whole point of smooth mode is that the wheel runs at 10 RPM for 5 or even 10s and you can give it further kicks to extend the spinning period | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you can stop the whell any time, absolutely natural | 14:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | the bumps are too far apart IMO. but as I say I am fussy about my mouse, hence why I have a M$ one. | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it should switch back to bumpy mode as soon as you stop it | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a pity is that linux doesn't support mousebuttons >5 that reasonably | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so I have 5 buttons on that mouse which usually don't doo anything useful | 14:31 |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: can a package be marked so it only builds for armel but not i386? | 14:33 |
| divVerent | encfs's dependencies are fulfilled for armel but not i386... some moron[tm] forgot to upload libfuse-dev for i386 | 14:33 |
| divVerent | probably this is the Architecture: field too, just wonder which value to use for armel... just armel, or linux-armel | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, look for a pkg that has only one arch, check the .dsc | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 14:36 |
| divVerent | yes, that far I already know | 14:36 |
| divVerent | I just know no package with just one arch :) | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err >>some moron[tm] forgot to upload libfuse-dev for i386<< | 14:36 |
| divVerent | and yes, I could try doing that myself, but I do not want to touch a library package others use too that early :) | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you still miss my point | 14:37 |
| divVerent | OH, I see what you were getting at | 14:37 |
| divVerent | and I thought that means the some moron[tm] just did a binary-upload | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually there's no such thing like binary uploads | 14:38 |
| divVerent | yay, encfs is now OK | 14:38 |
| divVerent | so Architecture: armel was a good guess | 14:38 |
| divVerent | except that I am now such a "some moron" too... | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 14:38 |
| *** valeriusN has left #maemo | 14:39 | |
| divVerent | so maybe I should soon try figuring out WHY fuse-dev is architecture restricted, and possibly fix it | 14:39 |
| tadzik | lpt: check git-blame before you say "what idiot wrote that" ;) | 14:39 |
| divVerent | I mean | 14:39 |
| divVerent | I wonder how big the chain of these "some morons" is... like, if FUSE depends on something else that Nokia never provided for i386 | 14:39 |
| divVerent | why do we have a Maemo i386 repo anyway? Is this just for the SDK? | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 14:40 |
| sixwheeledbeast | :nond: | 14:40 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/:nond:/:nod:/ | 14:41 |
| infobot | sixwheeledbeast meant: :nod: | 14:41 |
| *** esaym153 has joined #maemo | 14:41 | |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: ok, then maybe it was just arch-restricted because FUSE stuff isn't really very useful on the SDK | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | quite possible | 14:41 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~pkg | 14:42 |
| infobot | pkg is, like, http://maemo.org/packages/ | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though I could think of useful usecases | 14:42 |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 14:42 | |
| divVerent | I see, sshfs is already in the repos... that means now with encfs, all two properly working FUSE FSes are there :) | 14:43 |
| divVerent | BTW, I still have to admit I did all this without having the SDK installed anywehre... just from my Debian server. And did notice some differences... | 14:44 |
| divVerent | why the .... did Maemo have to rename the boost packages? :) | 14:44 |
| divVerent | or rather, the unversioned metapackages are missing | 14:45 |
| *** cityLights has joined #maemo | 14:45 | |
| *** fastlane` has quit IRC | 14:47 | |
| *** valerius2k has quit IRC | 14:47 | |
| *** MetalGearSolid has joined #maemo | 14:47 | |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 14:50 | |
| *** ShadowJK has quit IRC | 14:51 | |
| *** valerius2k has quit IRC | 14:52 | |
| divVerent | haha, another difference: for some reason, "fuse" exists on the build server but not in the extras repo. Fix: use fuse-utils as dependency | 14:52 |
| *** fastlane` has joined #maemo | 14:55 | |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: damn, I broke something... https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2013-May/108939.html this repeats now "forever". Now I know to ALWAYS bump the version :( | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you could find a *.maemo.org page where I could try to do sth via midgard, that could help | 15:00 |
| vi__ | ~tm0 | 15:01 |
| infobot | well, tm0 is trolls, mooses and orangutans | 15:01 |
| jaska | troll.maemo.org | 15:01 |
| divVerent | I _might_ have a way to fix it... but all I can do is scp | 15:02 |
| *** ShadowJK has joined #maemo | 15:02 | |
| divVerent | https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php - anyway, the first of the two encfs packages is to be deleted | 15:04 |
| divVerent | exists(path) | 15:05 |
| divVerent | Test whether a path exists. Returns False for broken symbolic links | 15:05 |
| divVerent | wonder if I can fix it knowing this | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, what? https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php doesn't yield anything useful for me | 15:06 |
| divVerent | no, can not | 15:06 |
| divVerent | fremantle build queue | 15:07 |
| divVerent | the top one of the two, encfs_1.7.4-2.4, is to be cancelled | 15:07 |
| divVerent | encfs_1.7.4-2.4maemo1 will work | 15:07 |
| divVerent | alternatively, deleting /mnt/incoming-builder/fremantle/rejected/encfs* on the build server will also fix the loop | 15:08 |
| divVerent | i can't do that (because scp cannot copy symlinks :P) | 15:08 |
| divVerent | sorry for that | 15:08 |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 15:09 | |
| *** valerius2k is now known as valeriusN | 15:09 | |
| divVerent | same happened on Apr 28 before :) | 15:10 |
| *** fastlane`` has joined #maemo | 15:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/0ab75a7383 have fun! | 15:15 |
| divVerent | what does this tell me? | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I hope more than me | 15:16 |
| *** fastlane` has quit IRC | 15:17 | |
| divVerent | it just doesn't match the paths I dput to | 15:17 |
| *** qwqwqwerrr has joined #maemo | 15:18 | |
| divVerent | deleting scratchbox/users/builder1/home/builder1/maemo-fremantle-armel-extras-devel/work/encfs_1.7.4-2.4* should be safe though | 15:18 |
| divVerent | but I can't say this will fix it for good... is that the only machine involved with building? | 15:18 |
| divVerent | what looks especially odd is that none of this found the files with maemo1 in the name (the new attempt I uploaded with non conflicting version) | 15:19 |
| divVerent | so you may be on the wrong server | 15:20 |
| *** fastlane` has joined #maemo | 15:21 | |
| divVerent | if this helps, /mnt/incoming-builder/fremantle/rejected/encfs_1.7.4-2.4.dsc is the path that conflicts | 15:21 |
| *** fastlane`` has quit IRC | 15:21 | |
| *** qwqwqwerrr has quit IRC | 15:25 | |
| *** Kabouik has joined #maemo | 15:26 | |
| *** fastlane` has quit IRC | 15:31 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're dputting to drop.m.o which has a NFS mount to bulder.m.o aiui | 15:31 |
| *** fastlane` has joined #maemo | 15:31 | |
| divVerent | sounds right | 15:31 |
| divVerent | that far | 15:31 |
| divVerent | but if you hit the right mount, you also should see files named after encfs_1.7.4-2.4maemo1 | 15:32 |
| divVerent | which your "find" output did not show | 15:32 |
| *** trx has quit IRC | 15:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure#Autobuilder_and_friends if you bother to investigate/learn. I'm out, got pressing stuff to do and no idea about that builder stuff anyway. I'll just have a look tonight (now+6h+) and muse about the pieces of the explosion | 15:33 |
| divVerent | ok | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just one last thing to do... | 15:33 |
| *** trx has joined #maemo | 15:34 | |
| *** trx has joined #maemo | 15:34 | |
| *** croppa has quit IRC | 15:34 | |
| divVerent | ah, so the solution is to find the files on garage, not builder1, and delete the encfs_1.7.4-2.4 files | 15:34 |
| divVerent | personally I can wait, but I feel a bit sorry for people who have the mailing list of cauldron subscribed... | 15:35 |
| *** heroux has quit IRC | 15:38 | |
| *** heroux has joined #maemo | 15:39 | |
| *** heroux has quit IRC | 15:47 | |
| *** valeriusN has quit IRC | 15:47 | |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 15:48 | |
| *** trx has quit IRC | 15:52 | |
| *** delphi has joined #maemo | 15:52 | |
| *** heroux has joined #maemo | 15:55 | |
| *** valerius has joined #maemo | 15:57 | |
| divVerent | anyway, while I am breaking stuff: | 16:01 |
| divVerent | dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=com.nokia.icd2 /com/nokia/icd2 com.nokia.icd2.disconnect_req uint32:0x8000 | 16:01 |
| divVerent | how to extend this to disconnect GPRS only, but not wifi? | 16:02 |
| *** erstazi_ is now known as erstazi | 16:02 | |
| *** fastlane` has quit IRC | 16:03 | |
| *** fastlane` has joined #maemo | 16:03 | |
| divVerent | I tried adding the args string: uint32:0 string: string:GPRS uint32:0 array:byte: | 16:04 |
| divVerent | the method does exist with the signature, from dbus-send's reply, but the command does nothing then | 16:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | have you tried: string:" " uint32:0 | 16:07 |
| *** valerius2k is now known as valeriusN | 16:08 | |
| divVerent | a space? funny | 16:09 |
| divVerent | no, does not help | 16:10 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I thought IAP_ID for GPRS is a space? | 16:11 |
| divVerent | it is? trying that then | 16:12 |
| divVerent | no, does not help either | 16:12 |
| *** Vorbis^ has joined #maemo | 16:14 | |
| divVerent | from the state_sig I get when connecting, the parameters are "", 0, "", "GPRS", 83886080, then "Sunrise Internet" encoded as array:byte: | 16:14 |
| divVerent | thing is, I'd prefer my code to be generic and not limited to this one connection name | 16:14 |
| *** woodong50- has joined #maemo | 16:14 | |
| *** oldtopman has joined #maemo | 16:17 | |
| divVerent | even with that field filled in propery, the disconnect_req does not work | 16:17 |
| divVerent | wait, no, it works then... | 16:17 |
| divVerent | I still had GPRS replaced by a space | 16:17 |
| divVerent | so it does work if I fill in the whole service name... which I don't want to if poissible | 16:18 |
| divVerent | the docs say "network ID or empty string", but neither array:byte:0 nor array:byte: work | 16:20 |
| divVerent | Also, dbus-send does not permit empty containers or nested containers | 16:21 |
| divVerent | (e.g. arrays of variants). | 16:21 |
| divVerent | argh, that may be it :( | 16:21 |
| *** fastlane` has quit IRC | 16:22 | |
| *** fastlane` has joined #maemo | 16:23 | |
| *** eijk has joined #maemo | 16:26 | |
| divVerent | ok, have it working now... now screen locking disconnects GPRS, just like I want it | 16:27 |
| divVerent | only issue, I have to hardcode the name of the provider :( | 16:27 |
| sixwheeledbeast | grep the IAP first? | 16:28 |
| *** eijk_ has quit IRC | 16:30 | |
| *** delphi has quit IRC | 16:32 | |
| *** trx has joined #maemo | 16:35 | |
| *** trx has joined #maemo | 16:35 | |
| *** konelix_ has joined #maemo | 16:40 | |
| divVerent | sixwheeledbeast: yes, that would be the idea | 16:44 |
| divVerent | only catcdh is, it is encoded as byte array, not string... not very convenient to grep from a shell script | 16:44 |
| divVerent | wonder if the old icd_ui interface can distinguish the two | 16:44 |
| divVerent | it is undocuemnted though | 16:44 |
| *** valerius has quit IRC | 16:55 | |
| *** louisdk has quit IRC | 16:56 | |
| *** VDVsx has quit IRC | 17:03 | |
| *** Martix has quit IRC | 17:05 | |
| *** konelix_ has quit IRC | 17:05 | |
| *** Martix has joined #maemo | 17:06 | |
| *** valerius has joined #maemo | 17:10 | |
| *** FlameReaper has quit IRC | 17:13 | |
| *** louisdk has joined #maemo | 17:14 | |
| *** Cor-Ai_ has joined #maemo | 17:15 | |
| *** n900-dk_ has joined #maemo | 17:15 | |
| *** nslu2-log_ has joined #maemo | 17:16 | |
| *** auenfx4 has joined #maemo | 17:17 | |
| *** jayne has quit IRC | 17:17 | |
| *** n900-dk has quit IRC | 17:17 | |
| *** jayne| has joined #maemo | 17:17 | |
| *** esaym has joined #maemo | 17:17 | |
| *** esaym153 has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** RP_ has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** uen has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** Cor-Ai has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** otep has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** Raimu-X has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** Arkenoi has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** auenf has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** jben has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** topro has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** `0660 has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** joga has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** nslu2-log has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| *** Raimu-Z has joined #maemo | 17:18 | |
| *** joga_ has joined #maemo | 17:18 | |
| *** uen| has joined #maemo | 17:18 | |
| *** otep has joined #maemo | 17:18 | |
| *** nslu2-log_ is now known as nslu2-log | 17:18 | |
| *** jben has joined #maemo | 17:18 | |
| *** uen| is now known as uen | 17:18 | |
| vi__ | What are you trying to do? | 17:21 |
| *** konelix_ has joined #maemo | 17:22 | |
| *** Martix has quit IRC | 17:24 | |
| *** konelix_ is now known as konelix | 17:27 | |
| *** Martix has joined #maemo | 17:27 | |
| *** joga_ has quit IRC | 17:31 | |
| *** joga_ has joined #maemo | 17:31 | |
| *** joga_ is now known as joga | 17:31 | |
| *** Martix has quit IRC | 17:31 | |
| *** marainein has quit IRC | 17:33 | |
| *** Martix has joined #maemo | 17:35 | |
| *** Martix has quit IRC | 17:37 | |
| *** Martix has joined #maemo | 17:39 | |
| *** Martix has quit IRC | 17:41 | |
| *** Vorbis^ has quit IRC | 17:43 | |
| *** Martix has joined #maemo | 17:46 | |
| *** Martix has quit IRC | 17:47 | |
| *** Martix has joined #maemo | 17:48 | |
| *** Martix has quit IRC | 17:51 | |
| *** Martix has joined #maemo | 17:52 | |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05, freemangordon: ok, then back from the other channel - a .dsc may refer to "anything", but dpkg-source created packages (and all are, Debian guys say it's even impossible to create a valid .dsc without going through dpkg-source (some way or another) | 18:01 |
| *** mvp has joined #maemo | 18:01 | |
| divVerent | have a specific requirement on the file name of the source tarball | 18:01 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: sure | 18:01 |
| divVerent | however, none of this has anything to do with the encfs package, which is by all standards a valid source package | 18:02 |
| divVerent | the only "weird" things I caused by not going through the Maemo SDK are wrong dependency package names in the previous version, causing builds to fail (as expected) | 18:03 |
| divVerent | and in one case, I depended on Debian's "fuse" instead of Maemo's "fuse-utils", whcih caused the build to succeed but the package to not be installable (makes no sense IMHO) | 18:03 |
| divVerent | I would even claim that the SDK would not have caught this error either, as the build DID succeed after all | 18:04 |
| divVerent | I suspect rather that the SDK's environment has a package called "fuse", while the extras repo does not+ | 18:04 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: could be | 18:06 |
| freemangordon | or there is some package which "provides:" | 18:06 |
| divVerent | yes, or that | 18:06 |
| divVerent | although shouldn't apt then have figured that out on apt-get install encfs (with the previous broken version)? | 18:06 |
| freemangordon | only if you have that repo enabled on the device, sdk and tools repos are not even installed by default | 18:07 |
| vi__ | yo fmg. | 18:07 |
| freemangordon | vi__: yo | 18:07 |
| divVerent | of course... | 18:07 |
| divVerent | and AFAIK the sdk repo doesn't belon gon the device at all | 18:07 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: try to install that package in SB | 18:07 |
| divVerent | in a few weeks, when I will actually be able to run SB | 18:07 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: oh, there is no problem to enable it ;) | 18:07 |
| divVerent | I currently am on my eeepc 701 | 18:07 |
| freemangordon | still? | 18:07 |
| freemangordon | oh, shit | 18:08 |
| divVerent | yes, still | 18:08 |
| divVerent | I wonder how hard it is to install SB on a server BTW... and if there is any documentation on that | 18:08 |
| divVerent | I do have a server running Debian with free space | 18:08 |
| vi__ | If you want to experience a new kind of hell in setting up cross compilation environments, have a go at bitbake. | 18:08 |
| vi__ | ~bitbake | 18:09 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, bitbake is a simple tool for the execution of tasks. It is derived from Portage, which is the package management system used by the Gentoo Linux distribution. It is most commonly used to build packages, and is used as the basis of the OpenEmbedded project. See http://developer.berlios.de/projects/bitbake/ and http://openembedded.org/. | 18:09 |
| divVerent | well, I'd rather want the official SDK running | 18:09 |
| divVerent | berlios... reeks of shily | 18:09 |
| divVerent | *schily | 18:09 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: hmm, i am not sure SB cares whether it is server or not :) | 18:10 |
| divVerent | oh, it cares a lot :) | 18:10 |
| freemangordon | vi__: what's up, besides oil prices? | 18:10 |
| divVerent | if it's a GUI machine, I can just use the VM imaghe | 18:10 |
| divVerent | that's how it cares :) | 18:10 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: you don;t need vmware to install sb | 18:11 |
| vi__ | Getting a new job. | 18:11 |
| divVerent | not REALLY | 18:11 |
| divVerent | bjut I haven't figured out how to install sb normally | 18:11 |
| divVerent | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_using_Text-based_Installer | 18:11 |
| divVerent | is kinda useless there | 18:11 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: why? | 18:11 |
| divVerent | for starters, http://www.scratchbox.org/download/scratchbox-hathor/ is a dead link | 18:12 |
| vi__ | I have passed telephone interview, first stage interview, technical questions test. | 18:12 |
| freemangordon | i used that to install under ubuntu 64bit a few weeks ago | 18:12 |
| freemangordon | vi__: nice, wish you luck | 18:12 |
| vi__ | This is enough to earn me the right to send them my references. | 18:12 |
| vi__ | This will perhaps lead to the 2nd interview. | 18:12 |
| vi__ | ~rolleyes | 18:12 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: comeon, those are about 10 .debs, wget them from skeiron | 18:12 |
| *** fastlane` has quit IRC | 18:13 | |
| freemangordon | ~mirrors | 18:13 |
| infobot | it has been said that mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new | 18:13 |
| divVerent | freemangordon: hehe, if they're new enough that'll do then | 18:13 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: http://skeiron.org/scratchbox/ | 18:13 |
| vi__ | To be fair the technical questions was a joke. Stupid stuff like 'what is the difference between a linear and a switching regulator. WHat are the pros/cons of each?'# | 18:14 |
| divVerent | freemangordon: admittedly, this doesn't tell MUCH... like, what is a "hathor" | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, sb.m.o is supposed to work | 18:14 |
| freemangordon | vi__: it is my english asking, what "linear" regulator is supposed to be? | 18:14 |
| freemangordon | regulating what? current? | 18:15 |
| vi__ | think lm7805. | 18:15 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: hathor is a version | 18:15 |
| freemangordon | ooh | 18:15 |
| vi__ | Generally a voltage regulator. | 18:15 |
| freemangordon | vi__: ^^ | 18:15 |
| *** FlameReaper has joined #maemo | 18:15 | |
| freemangordon | got it :D | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440 is scratchbox.m.o maintainer | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if there's sth missing or not working, ask him | 18:16 |
| vi__ | What are you working on now FMG? | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe booting that VM broke (or rather not established) some stuff that's needed | 18:17 |
| divVerent | damn robots.txt :( | 18:17 |
| divVerent | ah, -e "Robots = off" did the trick | 18:17 |
| freemangordon | vi__: relaxing on embedlite/gecko, still waiting for the new CSSU-x updates to come out so we can continue the work on kernel-cssu | 18:17 |
| divVerent | to be able to download all the .debs, as it is not an apt source | 18:17 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: yep | 18:18 |
| freemangordon | thedead1440: seems like scratchbox.m.o is down | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | down?? | 18:18 |
| freemangordon | 404 | 18:18 |
| *** XATRIX has quit IRC | 18:18 | |
| divVerent | /var/lib/dpkg/info/scratchbox-core.postinst: 13: [: configure: unexpected operator | 18:19 |
| divVerent | not sure if I like that | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, it lacks a proper frontpage | 18:19 |
| freemangordon | "Firefox can't find the server at scratchbox.maemo.org." | 18:19 |
| divVerent | argh, it's a bash script using #!/bin/sh | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, sorry, http://www.scratchbox.org/ | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | oh :) | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | ~scratchbox | 18:20 |
| infobot | i heard scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, or hosted by maemo.org now, maintainer thedead1440 | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: add this site to sources.list or wherever and follow the instructions | 18:21 |
| freemangordon | thedead1440: false alarm, sorry :) | 18:21 |
| sixwheeledbeast | lol loving the text based home page. | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.scratchbox.org/debian/dists/hathor/ | 18:22 |
| vi__ | Another question they asked was: You need a 300MHz clock. Of the oscillators available you can choose 1: 100pS rise and fall. 2: 30pS rise, 30pS fall. 3: 20pS rise, 400pS fall. | 18:22 |
| divVerent | forget it | 18:22 |
| vi__ | Which do you choose and why? | 18:22 |
| divVerent | root@v220120211684756499:~# sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser rpolzer | 18:22 |
| divVerent | /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser: 4: /scratchbox/etc/question_func.sh: Syntax error: "(" unexpected | 18:22 |
| divVerent | clearly not made for wheezy | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe we need a symlink or a rewrite rule there? | 18:22 |
| divVerent | (as you see, AGAIN a wrong #!/bin/sh) | 18:22 |
| freemangordon | vi__: 30ps one? | 18:23 |
| vi__ | no. | 18:23 |
| freemangordon | hmm, why not? | 18:24 |
| vi__ | You should not use a clock that is faster than you need. | 18:24 |
| vi__ | Fast edges mean interference. | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 18:24 |
| vi__ | ~vi_ | 18:24 |
| freemangordon | :( | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but that you usually handle by other means | 18:25 |
| * freemangordon feels stupid | 18:25 | |
| *** Grzegorz has joined #maemo | 18:25 | |
| vi__ | ~vi__ | 18:25 |
| infobot | it has been said that vi__ is 13:21 < DocScrutinizer05> vi__: you're absolutely right | 18:25 |
| freemangordon | :D | 18:25 |
| *** FReaper has joined #maemo | 18:25 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however faster slopes usually also mean stronger driver stage that uses more power | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's the true criterion | 18:26 |
| Wizzup | Quick question - I was reading some threads about cssu thumb2; and it also mentioned a newer pulse version | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rise/fall time itself can get handled by RC-filters etc | 18:26 |
| divVerent | no, it doesn't work on wheezy... I'll use the VM | 18:26 |
| vi__ | I did not know that, however it make sense. | 18:26 |
| Wizzup | Does it mean that I can use the old n900 pulse with my new pulse? | 18:26 |
| Wizzup | Could find the exact details of the change | 18:27 |
| freemangordon | Wizzup: it is "new" as "some stuff changed and recompiled" | 18:27 |
| Wizzup | well, I think the ``fix'' only needed a small change | 18:27 |
| Wizzup | (literally 16 -> 15) | 18:27 |
| *** FlameReaper has quit IRC | 18:27 | |
| freemangordon | Wizzup: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/pulseaudio/commits/master | 18:28 |
| divVerent | also, vm.mmap_min_addr = 0 is really something I refuse to set on a server connected to the internet... more reason to only use a VM for SB | 18:28 |
| Wizzup | found it | 18:28 |
| Wizzup | https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/pulseaudio/commit/5b6b4843defa6e7778fd2d73653ec7e54410a207 | 18:28 |
| Wizzup | freemangordon+= | 18:29 |
| Wizzup | ++ * :-) | 18:29 |
| divVerent | FYI, what failed just now was that it didn't detect the armel support somehow installed via qemu when installing the SDK | 18:29 |
| divVerent | even though this binfmt stuff was mentioned before without error during the installation of scratchbox | 18:29 |
| Wizzup | now I will need to install pulse on my netbook again ;-) | 18:30 |
| *** FReaper has quit IRC | 18:30 | |
| freemangordon | Wizzup: there are more changes, but yes, this fiz allows you to use n900 pulse with your desktop pulse | 18:30 |
| freemangordon | *fix | 18:30 |
| Wizzup | very nice | 18:30 |
| divVerent | PulseRoll'd - like RickRoll'd, but with total silence | 18:30 |
| Wizzup | or rather ... excellent *rubs hands* | 18:30 |
| freemangordon | Wizzup: but this is not specific to cssu-thumb, mind you, cssu-t has (or at least is supposed to) the same pulse | 18:31 |
| Wizzup | yeah, I figured | 18:31 |
| *** konelix has quit IRC | 18:31 | |
| Wizzup | I also don't think I'll try thumb2 just yet - I already have the other cssu installed :-) | 18:32 |
| Wizzup | now to figure out how to use garage to make my first maemo .deb | 18:32 |
| * Wizzup back to reading wiki | 18:32 | |
| divVerent | have to admit, the N900 is the first and only device I have on which pulseaudio actually works :) | 18:32 |
| *** konelix has joined #maemo | 18:33 | |
| vi__ | N900: One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. | 18:36 |
| *** konelix has quit IRC | 18:36 | |
| *** konelix has joined #maemo | 18:37 | |
| divVerent | BTW, I recently saw in a shop a cheap Nokia supporting "Ovi Store" and having an actual keyboard; case design was quite Blackberry-cloned, but white | 18:37 |
| divVerent | what does run on it? | 18:37 |
| vi__ | Probably S40. | 18:38 |
| vi__ | A stripped out symbian variant. | 18:38 |
| vi__ | Sorry, castrated. Not stripped out. | 18:39 |
| divVerent | Symbian. No thanks :) | 18:39 |
| vi__ | Symbian was the best mobile phone OS ever made. | 18:39 |
| divVerent | focus on "phone", then yes | 18:40 |
| vi__ | No other phone OS was as feature complete. | 18:40 |
| vi__ | Yes, phone OS. | 18:40 |
| *** FlameReaper has joined #maemo | 18:40 | |
| divVerent | (as opposed to smartphone) | 18:40 |
| vi__ | ... | 18:40 |
| divVerent | it is not a S40, though | 18:40 |
| vi__ | WHat makes a phone a smartphone? | 18:40 |
| divVerent | as it has a qwertz keyboard | 18:40 |
| divVerent | good question :) | 18:41 |
| vi__ | EPOC had *REAL* multitasking 15 years ago. | 18:41 |
| divVerent | oh, S40 is a quite broad series | 18:41 |
| vi__ | The modern devices STILL do not have it. | 18:41 |
| *** NIN101 has joined #maemo | 18:42 | |
| divVerent | N900 has it. Android has it. Even iOS has it. | 18:42 |
| sixwheeledbeast | divVerent: C3? E5? | 18:42 |
| vi__ | Symbian handled SIP, VPN etc beautifully. | 18:42 |
| divVerent | could do the same on iOS, though | 18:42 |
| divVerent | using extra apps, of course | 18:42 |
| sixwheeledbeast | E71? | 18:42 |
| vi__ | divVerent: I respectfully disagree. Neither IOS nor droid have multi-tasking. | 18:43 |
| divVerent | so Linux has no multitasking? that's news to me | 18:43 |
| vi__ | eh? | 18:43 |
| divVerent | Android has no trouble at all running a process in background | 18:43 |
| tadzik | divVerent: have you used andriod? | 18:43 |
| divVerent | yes, and? | 18:44 |
| tadzik | okay, I have no questions then | 18:44 |
| divVerent | how long an app "survives" when inactive depends on said app | 18:44 |
| divVerent | iOS has a quite hard 10 minutes limit | 18:44 |
| tadzik | I didn't know what this "real multitasking" circlejerk is about until I moved to android for a few months | 18:44 |
| divVerent | but even that's only enforced by policy | 18:44 |
| divVerent | or what do you MEAN by multitasking? | 18:44 |
| divVerent | running two apps at the same time on the same screen? THAT is what iOS/Android don't do | 18:45 |
| divVerent | they both can be active, but only one can be displayed at the same time | 18:45 |
| tadzik | from my point of view, it makes a big difference whether I close an app or put it into background | 18:45 |
| tadzik | if the system is trying to guess for me, that's a no-go | 18:45 |
| divVerent | same for me | 18:45 |
| divVerent | ah, I see | 18:45 |
| divVerent | in case of Android, it's all up to the app | 18:45 |
| tadzik | that's why using android was fucking annoying | 18:45 |
| divVerent | how it behaves when "backgrounded" | 18:45 |
| divVerent | and on iOS, there is this "you can not live in background for more than 10 minutes" policy | 18:45 |
| divVerent | hate that | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: please tell me what you're missing exactly on scratchbox.org | 18:46 |
| tadzik | well, the system may kill it or not, depending on memory usage (I think) | 18:46 |
| divVerent | when not following it, app is kicked from the store | 18:46 |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: on scratchbox.org domain name, nothing | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eh? | 18:46 |
| divVerent | on android, most apps cannot be backgrounded because google says they should not go to background but rather exit | 18:46 |
| divVerent | to save battery life[tm] | 18:46 |
| divVerent | but an app can still do whatever it wants to, if it makes sense | 18:46 |
| Wizzup | ™ | 18:46 |
| tadzik | so, summing it up: real multitasking is whether I can jump from one app to another without having to worry if one will mysteriously disappear | 18:46 |
| tadzik | (for me, that is) | 18:47 |
| vi__ | perhaps supporting ARM power domains would do better for battery life? | 18:47 |
| divVerent | iOS's solution to that is actually somewhat neat | 18:47 |
| divVerent | an app SHOULD not behave any different whether it was closed or just backgrounded | 18:47 |
| divVerent | i.e. it is supposed to save full state when exiting | 18:47 |
| tadzik | . o O ( perhaps not having an OS check for updates few times during the night would do even better ) | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok then, when you don't miss anything on http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/ then why did I bother? | 18:47 |
| vi__ | But what if I want to not be looking at a program while it does something? | 18:47 |
| tadzik | oh yes | 18:48 |
| tadzik | like, I want to lock my phone when it's still looking for a GPS signal | 18:48 |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: there is a dead link in the wiki, but it was not to scratchbox.org | 18:48 |
| divVerent | tadzik: I fully agree there | 18:48 |
| tadzik | android then thinks "oh, so you're not going to use it then..." and stops trying | 18:48 |
| divVerent | this iOS policy is nonsense | 18:48 |
| divVerent | but it is NOT an OS restriction... | 18:48 |
| divVerent | it is merely policy in case of iOS | 18:48 |
| tadzik | I never used iOS, I'm ranting about android because I used it, and it's fucking awful | 18:48 |
| divVerent | and in Android, there isn#t even that policy, there is just apps not doing what you want | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: was not to scratchbox.org??? | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.scratchbox.org/download/scratchbox-hathor/ ??? | 18:49 |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: oh, it was/is | 18:49 |
| divVerent | http://www.scratchbox.org/download/scratchbox-hathor/ is dead, yes | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 18:49 |
| divVerent | http://www.scratchbox.org/documentation/user/scratchbox-1.0/html/installdoc.html | 18:49 |
| divVerent | these two are dead | 18:49 |
| *** arcean has joined #maemo | 18:50 | |
| divVerent | tadzik: apparently, the real problem is that both Android and iOS lack a GOOD way for the GUI to handle closed vs backgrounded apps | 18:50 |
| divVerent | in iOS it's meant so you never notice whether an app is still running or not | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you ever figure out, I might create symlinks so you find the stuff wehere you expect it. Or you fix the wiki. Or best you check what the jobs do | 18:50 |
| divVerent | #even when it's been closed, it still appears in the list of "previously running apps" | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afk, bbl | 18:51 |
| vi__ | tadzik: I want to have a music player paused, a pdf open, my email checking for updates, a web page open with a half filled in form WHILE I am on a phone call that is being recorded by some program. Can android do this? | 18:51 |
| divVerent | technically yes | 18:51 |
| divVerent | it's up to the apps you use for the other things | 18:51 |
| tadzik | vi__: I don't suppose so. There's a reason I ditched it and bought another n900 :) | 18:51 |
| divVerent | music player - why do you even care whether it runs or not when it's paused? | 18:51 |
| divVerent | all you really care for is that you can "unpause" at any time | 18:52 |
| *** Sc0rpius has quit IRC | 18:52 | |
| tadzik | maybe it's downloading lyrics? | 18:52 |
| sixwheeledbeast | divVerent: if you know what pages on the wiki either fix or let me know so we can repair it. | 18:52 |
| divVerent | sixwheeledbeast: yes | 18:52 |
| divVerent | for that all I'd need is the proper URLs | 18:52 |
| divVerent | if I find them, I can update the wiki | 18:52 |
| vi__ | Because it needs to be open and waiting for me to unpause it. I do not want to 'open' it again. | 18:52 |
| divVerent | vi__: you have to switch to it though | 18:52 |
| vi__ | Nope. | 18:52 |
| divVerent | and the OS could then use that to transparently open it again | 18:52 |
| divVerent | this is actually how iOS works | 18:52 |
| divVerent | how do you unpause without first activating the app? | 18:53 |
| vi__ | The app is monitoring dbus or some such for a keypress. | 18:53 |
| tadzik | widget, keyboard shortcut, whatever means | 18:53 |
| divVerent | on iOS, there is "global media controls". And Apple did this bad indeed. | 18:53 |
| divVerent | vi__: ok, then the OS should then monitor dbus in the app's place, and start and control the app again if it was closed :) | 18:53 |
| divVerent | this is how Apple WANTED to do it on iOS, but didn't finish it | 18:53 |
| vi__ | On the n900, I enjoy using the headset button to play/pause. | 18:53 |
| divVerent | web page with half filled form - iOS does this part right | 18:54 |
| vi__ | anyway. I do not want this discussion to turn into an OS bashing. | 18:54 |
| divVerent | if iOS does decide to close the browser, the state of the forms is saved with it | 18:54 |
| divVerent | just saying... yes, we all want REAL multitasking | 18:54 |
| *** Grzegorz has quit IRC | 18:54 | |
| divVerent | and all mobile OSes have it | 18:54 |
| divVerent | but they "prefer" closing apps after inactivity to save memory/CPU/battery | 18:55 |
| tadzik | we have to agree that we don't agree with each other | 18:55 |
| divVerent | and Android is indeed prone to do this wrong in many places | 18:55 |
| vi__ | I disagree! | 18:55 |
| tadzik | when an app is waiting for IO it's not wasting cpu and battery anyway | 18:55 |
| divVerent | tadzik: I agree there | 18:55 |
| divVerent | it still wastes RAM | 18:55 |
| vi__ | Yup. Thread is sleep. | 18:55 |
| tadzik | it can be swapped | 18:55 |
| vi__ | Nope, it is swapped out! | 18:55 |
| divVerent | tadzik: you know what we both would REALLY want? | 18:55 |
| tadzik | yes. I want N901 | 18:55 |
| divVerent | user controls for controlling auto close inactive app behaviour | 18:55 |
| divVerent | that too | 18:55 |
| tadzik | fuck no | 18:56 |
| divVerent | you can turn it off entirely | 18:56 |
| tadzik | I don't want the system to guess and close apps when the system thinks it's right | 18:56 |
| divVerent | and I can set it per app | 18:56 |
| divVerent | that's why I said user controls | 18:56 |
| tadzik | because it's always wrong and confusing to me | 18:56 |
| tadzik | maybe it's just me | 18:56 |
| divVerent | sure, then you can turn it off | 18:56 |
| divVerent | in an "ideal OS" | 18:56 |
| divVerent | thing is, if the OS and the apps were done right, you'd never know if apps were closed or not | 18:56 |
| divVerent | only difference would be longer startup time when it WAS closed | 18:57 |
| tadzik | well, I don't care for any auto-close behaviour, I don't want it anywhere near me. That's it | 18:57 |
| divVerent | sure | 18:57 |
| *** konelix has quit IRC | 18:57 | |
| divVerent | and you should also have that option | 18:57 |
| vi__ | I cannot think of any application I would want to die in the background without my request. | 18:57 |
| divVerent | what makes the situation on both iOS and Android bad is that it's enforced not by the OS, but by policy | 18:57 |
| divVerent | so the OS can't offer user controls for it if it wanted to | 18:57 |
| divVerent | each app has its own logic for it | 18:57 |
| vi__ | Except nokia cherry. I would like that to die, alone, in the backround with no eulogy. | 18:58 |
| tadzik | when OS decides when to close apps, the thing which shows me "running applications" stops making sens | 18:58 |
| tadzik | "what apps are running" is a valueable information to me | 18:58 |
| tadzik | "oh, I kept this one open, there's probably something I should do about it" | 18:58 |
| tadzik | "recently ran apps" carries no valuable information | 18:59 |
| tadzik | of course, you can argue that the OS could distinguish between the apps I closed and the apps OS closed | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<divVerent> and I can set it per app)) false approach: the app eventually goes on select(), wait() or whatever. All it needs is the app doing this in a reasonable way. Alas many apps user usleep() or timers to wake up every 100ms, for doing nothing | 19:00 |
| tadzik | but this is more and more becoming an OS where it doesn't close anything on itself because that'll confuse the user | 19:00 |
| sixwheeledbeast | divVerent: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_training_material/Getting_Started/Installing_the_SDK This page? | 19:00 |
| tadzik | weren't there ubuntu VMs with scratchbox already set up? | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on a properly designed system wirh proper apps, usually everything is sleeping, and thus you don't need to stop any task and make OS monitor keypresses to wake the task again, since that's exactly what select() *does* | 19:01 |
| *** Grzegorz has joined #maemo | 19:01 | |
| tadzik | *nod* | 19:01 |
| *** Sc0rpius has joined #maemo | 19:01 | |
| tadzik | homework: open htop, see how many tasks are there and how many of them are running | 19:01 |
| vi__ | ~1d6 | 19:02 |
| infobot | You roll a 5 | 19:02 |
| tadzik | here I have 144(360 threads), 1 running (probably htop) | 19:02 |
| *** dos11 has joined #maemo | 19:02 | |
| vi__ | Critical hit!1 | 19:02 |
| tadzik | the rest of them is wasting neither cpu, nor ram, nor battery | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dice 1d5 | 19:03 |
| infobot | rolled 4 = 4 | 19:03 |
| sixwheeledbeast | and this page http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tadzik: on a one-core system, usually it's always only top that's running | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since no other task can be in state running while top runs | 19:04 |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 19:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "running" means: has CPU and executes commands on it | 19:05 |
| tadzik | oh, true. It's running, not ready | 19:05 |
| tadzik | or whatever's the name for ready | 19:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | NFC what the links should be changed to but that's all I can locate with the broken URL's | 19:06 |
| *** Grzegorz has quit IRC | 19:06 | |
| *** dos11 has joined #maemo | 19:06 | |
| *** brzys has quit IRC | 19:07 | |
| *** brzys has joined #maemo | 19:08 | |
| *** timeless has quit IRC | 19:08 | |
| *** XDS2010 has quit IRC | 19:08 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think http://www.scratchbox.org/download/ might need to point to http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-repository/debian/dists/ | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not sure though | 19:08 |
| sixwheeledbeast | thedead1440:^^^^? | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/ which is about all we have | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/852f21565f is what we inherited | 19:12 |
| *** valeriusN has left #maemo | 19:12 | |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 19:12 | |
| *** konelix has joined #maemo | 19:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have an incredible mess of data from a backup on /mnt/store: | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/981650afd6 | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /var/lib/files is a symlink to /mnt/store/var/lib/file | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Apr 5 15:21 /var/lib/files -> /mnt/store/var/lib/files/ | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wiki, mail, etc is not set up | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/e3443fe624 | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/ab3def2be2 | 19:22 |
| *** florian has joined #maemo | 19:24 | |
| *** florian has joined #maemo | 19:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: if you want to search for a certain file: http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/ls.txt | 19:28 |
| *** arcean has quit IRC | 19:28 | |
| divVerent | tadzik: auto closing apps can still save a lotm of ram | 19:28 |
| divVerent | arguably I would rather just have enough ram | 19:29 |
| *** arcean has joined #maemo | 19:34 | |
| *** WielkiTost has joined #maemo | 19:34 | |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 19:35 | |
| *** darodi has quit IRC | 19:38 | |
| *** MetalGearSolid has quit IRC | 19:38 | |
| *** valerius2k has left #maemo | 19:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | root@scratchbox:/mnt/store/usr/share/moin# du -hs . | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 279M . | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could copy those to the real system | 19:44 |
| *** konelix has quit IRC | 19:48 | |
| *** konelix has joined #maemo | 19:48 | |
| *** VDVsx has joined #maemo | 19:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | done | 19:52 |
| *** AD-N770 has quit IRC | 20:04 | |
| *** andre__ has quit IRC | 20:06 | |
| *** pcfe has quit IRC | 20:07 | |
| *** konelix has quit IRC | 20:08 | |
| *** sardini has joined #maemo | 20:14 | |
| *** konelix_ has joined #maemo | 20:14 | |
| *** tanty has quit IRC | 20:20 | |
| *** XDS2010 has joined #maemo | 20:22 | |
| *** darodi has joined #maemo | 20:23 | |
| *** konelix_ has quit IRC | 20:26 | |
| *** konelix_ has joined #maemo | 20:26 | |
| *** geaaru has quit IRC | 20:33 | |
| *** konelix_ has quit IRC | 20:38 | |
| *** konelix_ has joined #maemo | 20:38 | |
| *** timeless has joined #maemo | 20:41 | |
| *** hardaker has joined #maemo | 20:41 | |
| *** Cor-Ai_ is now known as Cor-Ai | 20:43 | |
| *** konelix has joined #maemo | 20:43 | |
| *** konelix_ has quit IRC | 20:43 | |
| *** konelix_ has joined #maemo | 20:49 | |
| *** konelix has quit IRC | 20:49 | |
| *** FredrIQ has joined #maemo | 20:52 | |
| *** FIQ has quit IRC | 20:56 | |
| *** FredrIQ is now known as FIQ | 20:56 | |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has left #maemo | 21:07 | |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 21:08 | |
| *** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC | 21:12 | |
| thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: all ok with sb now? another alternative is http://www.scratchbox.org/debian/dists/ | 21:14 |
| thedead1440 | they are all symlinks | 21:14 |
| *** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo | 21:17 | |
| *** pcfe has joined #maemo | 21:18 | |
| *** pcfe has quit IRC | 21:18 | |
| *** pcfe has joined #maemo | 21:18 | |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 21:22 | |
| *** FlameReaper has quit IRC | 21:29 | |
| *** BCMM has joined #maemo | 21:30 | |
| *** valerius2k has left #maemo | 21:31 | |
| *** valeriusN has joined #maemo | 21:33 | |
| *** vblazquez has joined #maemo | 21:34 | |
| *** darodi has quit IRC | 21:36 | |
| *** florian has joined #maemo | 21:36 | |
| *** vblazquez has quit IRC | 21:36 | |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 21:36 | |
| *** florian has joined #maemo | 21:36 | |
| *** darodi has joined #maemo | 21:37 | |
| *** sq-one has joined #maemo | 21:41 | |
| *** vblazquez has joined #maemo | 21:41 | |
| *** r00t|n900 has joined #maemo | 21:44 | |
| *** Vlad_on_the_road has joined #maemo | 21:45 | |
| *** konelix has joined #maemo | 21:46 | |
| *** konelix_ has quit IRC | 21:46 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thedead1440: I didn't change any symlinks so far | 21:54 |
| thedead1440 | ok | 21:54 |
| thedead1440 | anyway you have posted the file list; it should be enough for anyone who requires further digging | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | in apache conf in etc (vhost file) there's a lot of aliases | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I think this needs a major review | 21:55 |
| thedead1440 | the problem is we need to investigate all the domains all the different scratchboxes use | 21:56 |
| *** konelix has quit IRC | 22:01 | |
| *** konelix has joined #maemo | 22:01 | |
| *** xes has joined #maemo | 22:11 | |
| *** LauRoman has joined #maemo | 22:14 | |
| *** futpib has quit IRC | 22:14 | |
| *** ian--- has quit IRC | 22:22 | |
| *** brkn has joined #maemo | 22:24 | |
| *** arcean has quit IRC | 22:29 | |
| *** arcean has joined #maemo | 22:36 | |
| *** Grzegorz has joined #maemo | 22:37 | |
| *** valeriusN has left #maemo | 22:38 | |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 22:41 | |
| *** darodi has quit IRC | 22:45 | |
| *** darodi has joined #maemo | 22:47 | |
| *** frafl has joined #maemo | 22:56 | |
| *** M4rtinK has joined #maemo | 22:58 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: divVerent: /var/lib/repos/www/_darcs/current/www/download/scratchbox-hathor/index.html /var/lib/repos/www/www/download/scratchbox-hathor/index.html | 23:01 |
| *** thomasjfox has joined #maemo | 23:03 | |
| *** darodi has quit IRC | 23:03 | |
| *** darodi has joined #maemo | 23:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: Alias /debian /var/lib/files/sbox-repository/debian; Alias /download/files /var/lib/files | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.scratchbox.org/repos/www/www/ | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.scratchbox.org/repos/www/www/download/ | 23:11 |
| *** r00t|n900 has quit IRC | 23:13 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, I think we need an alias (http://www.scratchbox.org/)download/ -> /mnt/store/var/lib/repos/www/www/download/ | 23:15 |
| *** disco_stu has quit IRC | 23:27 | |
| *** disco_stu has joined #maemo | 23:27 | |
| *** M4rtinK has quit IRC | 23:27 | |
| *** M4rtinK has joined #maemo | 23:31 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I changed document root dir /var/www/ to: | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | root@scratchbox:/var# ll -d www | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 32 May 28 22:28 www -> /mnt/store/var/lib/repos/www/www/ | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so far to me it seems as if this has done "the trick" :-D | 23:34 |
| *** NeutrinoPower has joined #maemo | 23:35 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: sixwheeled: thedead1440: http://www.scratchbox.org/download/scratchbox-hathor/ and http://www.scratchbox.org/documentation/user/scratchbox-1.0/html/installdoc.html work, as does every other link I checked so far | 23:36 |
| *** valerius2k is now known as valeriusN | 23:36 | |
| *** xes has quit IRC | 23:36 | |
| *** r00t|n900 has joined #maemo | 23:38 | |
| *** Vlad_on_the_road has quit IRC | 23:38 | |
| NeutrinoPower | hello, I want buy an USB (TV) adapter with composite video input for my N900 to see the video signal of some cameras with broken displays... have anyone an idea for this? maybe I can install tvtime on maemo or use mplayer... | 23:40 |
| r00t|n900 | the player should be the smaller problem, the driver would be more interesting | 23:41 |
| *** shamus has quit IRC | 23:42 | |
| r00t|n900 | note that many cheap usb video input devices are not supported under linux AT ALL | 23:42 |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 23:42 | |
| NeutrinoPower | I had a pinnacle tv-card and watched tv on linux... | 23:42 |
| NeutrinoPower | but it was PCI... | 23:43 |
| SpeedEvil | NeutrinoPower: In principle, you can use a USB video capture card. | 23:43 |
| SpeedEvil | NeutrinoPower: I'm not aware that anyones done it. | 23:43 |
| *** shanttu has joined #maemo | 23:43 | |
| SpeedEvil | xawtv and mplayer can play /dev/video* devices | 23:43 |
| r00t|n900 | i said _cheap_ _usb_ | 23:43 |
| r00t|n900 | you can buy video dongles for $5 on ebay, those don't work | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I failed to get any such USB TV stick to work on linux so far | 23:44 |
| SpeedEvil | There are ones with source drivers. | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, general notice: scratchbox.org got fixed | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please check what (if anything, except wiki and bugzilla) might be missing | 23:45 |
| *** eijk has quit IRC | 23:47 | |
| *** eijk has joined #maemo | 23:48 | |
| *** OkropNick has quit IRC | 23:49 | |
| *** lizardo has quit IRC | 23:56 | |
| NeutrinoPower | http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_USB-Live-2 | 23:58 |
| *** florian has joined #maemo | 23:58 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!