IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2013-03-04

sixwheeledbeast	i believe I have blacklisted cdc_phonet still not working	00:00
sixwheeledbeast	USB device found found at bus 010, device address 052.	00:00
sixwheeledbeast	Error setting alternate interface: Invalid argument	00:00
DocScrutinizer05	modprobe -r cdc_phonet. if it DOESNOT throw error, something's odd	00:00
Pali	blacklisting cdc_phonet is not needed anymore with last flasher	00:00
XATRIX	Can you explain me one thing i can't get myself... Pali's manual tells us a temorary link to KP, but should i add it as new repo ? Or how can i operate with it ?	00:01
sixwheeledbeast	it doesn't throw an error everytime over and over	00:01
Pali	XATRIX, download that DEB packages	00:01
XATRIX	And ?	00:01
Pali	install them via dpkg -i as root	00:01
XATRIX	I supposed to install it with HAM ?	00:01
DocScrutinizer05	[2013-03-03 22:57:53] <DocScrutinizer05> best you download those with wget	00:01
DocScrutinizer05	[2013-03-03 22:58:08] <DocScrutinizer05> and use dpkg -i kernel-power kernel-power-modules kernel-power-flasher kernel-power-bootimg	00:01
Pali	XATRIX, you can also with HAM	00:02
Pali	but is is slow via HAM :-)	00:02
DocScrutinizer05	but in this particular case I'd suggest to use apt-get	00:02
Pali	XATRIX, open downloaded file via file manager	00:02
DocScrutinizer05	err dpkg	00:02
XATRIX	But, it won't update my current KP right ?	00:02
Pali	XATRIX, it update	00:02
XATRIX	OK	00:02
XATRIX	i'll try	00:02
Pali	XATRIX, look at correct order!!!	00:02
Pali	otherwise it will fail	00:03
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: also how's ham to know about tmo? or pali's own "repo"	00:03
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, you can install downloaded DEB package via HAM	00:03
Pali	just click on deb package in file manager	00:03
DocScrutinizer05	and I seem to recall that installing debs via clicking on URL in microb doesn't really work	00:04
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, in file manager	00:04
DocScrutinizer05	that's a PITA	00:04
DocScrutinizer05	use dpkg -i	00:04
Pali	this working without root	00:04
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	00:04
Pali	you need to install rootsh via this method	00:05
Pali	or enable R&D mode	00:05
DocScrutinizer05	I'd hope somebody installing KP already has rootsh	00:05
DocScrutinizer05	everything else feels... silly	00:05
* kerio doesn't have rootsh		00:06
DocScrutinizer05	what a poweruser is that who needs KP but doesn't want root on his device?	00:06
DocScrutinizer05	must be kerio	00:06
DocScrutinizer05	;-P	00:06
kerio	d:	00:07
Pali	somebody with working root shell :-)	00:07
Pali	not **** rootsh package	00:07
DocScrutinizer05	;-P	00:07
kerio	Pali: you can say "fuck" on the internet	00:07
DocScrutinizer05	fixing **** rootsh config is easy	00:08
XATRIX	Nokia-N900:/home/user/MyDocs/kernel# dpkg -i kernel-power_2.6.28-10power52_armel.deb kernel-power-modules_2.6.28-10power52_armel.deb kernel-power-flasher_2.6.28-10power52_armel.deb kernel-power-bootimg_2.6.28-10power52_armel.deb	00:08
XATRIX	Is it ok ?	00:08
Pali	no	00:08
XATRIX	:(	00:08
Pali	one dpkg for one file	00:08
XATRIX	Ah	00:08
Pali	dpkg -i kernel-power_2.6.28-10power52_armel.deb	00:08
DocScrutinizer05	XATRIX: try it	00:08
Pali	then dpkg -i kernel-power-modules_2.6.28-10power52_armel.deb	00:08
Pali	...	00:08
XATRIX	Ye	00:08
DocScrutinizer05	it will throw error, so just try it again, it will throw less errors	00:08
DocScrutinizer05	you can even try dpkg -i *.deb	00:09
DocScrutinizer05	when you only got those 4 *.deb in your CWD	00:09
DocScrutinizer05	;-)	00:10
DocScrutinizer05	after 4th invocation it shouldn't throw any more error	00:10
DocScrutinizer05	you're done	00:10
DocScrutinizer05	but yeah, Pali's method is cleaner	00:11
XATRIX	http://fpaste.org/pEgj/ - hope it's ok	00:11
Pali	>>> [23:08:04] <DocScrutinizer05> fixing **** rootsh config is easy <<< I know how	00:11
Pali	but you think that it will break some apps	00:11
Pali	but I do not think	00:12
DocScrutinizer05	looks good	00:12
kerio	the fun thing is that DocScrutinizer05's configuration for passwordful "sudo gainroot" breaks maemo semantics	00:12
DocScrutinizer05	now reboot, and pray	00:12
kerio	it'll be just kernel-power, it'll work	00:12
kerio	there's no uboot	00:12
Pali	XATRIX, its ok	00:12
XATRIX	Wait a bit, Pali's manual said kernel-power-bootimg - it's a multiboot	00:12
XATRIX	If i get it correct multiboot != uboot	00:13
Pali	no	00:13
DocScrutinizer05	it's a uBoot bootimage	00:13
Pali	bootimg package contains kernel bootimg	00:13
DocScrutinizer05	it's not uBoot yet	00:13
Pali	which can be used for uboot or multiboot	00:13
XATRIX	ahh	00:13
XATRIX	ok, rebooting	00:13
Pali	do you have uboot installed?	00:13
XATRIX	Not yet	00:13
Pali	you can install it now if you want	00:14
Pali	before rebooting	00:14
XATRIX	ok	00:14
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	00:14
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: maemo semantics?	00:14
DocScrutinizer05	wtf is that?	00:14
kerio	sudo gainroot is supposed to be passwordless	00:14
kerio	(and only working in rd mode)	00:15
DocScrutinizer05	ooh, it is?	00:15
DocScrutinizer05	shrug	00:15
kerio	that's what stock does	00:15
DocScrutinizer05	nobody using R&D mode	00:15
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DocScrutinizer05	if there's any such thing like maemo semantics or rather gainroot semantics then it's that of fekkered rootsh which several borked packages require	00:16
DocScrutinizer05	and yes, my fix to rootsh is breaking the broken pakckages that depend on sudo gainroot	00:17
DocScrutinizer05	ANd I LOVE IT!	00:17
DocScrutinizer05	since that's braindead BS to code an app	00:17
DocScrutinizer05	if you need sudo for your app, add a sudoers.d/* file	00:18
DocScrutinizer05	or run your root process as root already	00:18
Pali	onlt qradio and clean900 needs rootsh, see: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/rootsh/1.8/	00:18
DocScrutinizer05	so you don't need any sudo gainroot undigestable hackery	00:19
Pali	we can patch both apps and fix root shell in gainroot	00:19
XATRIX	Pali: what's the correct order? 1) u-boot-tools 2) u-boot-flasher ?	00:19
DocScrutinizer05	why didn't we already, for CSSU?	00:19
Pali	XATRIX, yes	00:20
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, what for CSSU?	00:20
DocScrutinizer05	fixed rootsh	00:20
XATRIX	Pali: But i still have only - U-Boot with kernel 2.6.28-omap1 AND uboot-pr13 in HAM	00:21
XATRIX	is it ok ?	00:21
DocScrutinizer05	I'd consider even adding a proper rootsh with password to a system that doesn't have any rootsh before isn't a bad thing to do	00:21
Pali	XATRIX, use "U-Boot with kernel 2.6.28-omap1"	00:21
Pali	uboot-pr13 is old	00:21
XATRIX	wait as sec, this kernel is not KP	00:22
Pali	yes	00:22
Pali	U-boot will load kernel-power from bootimg package at runtime	00:22
XATRIX	So ? :(	00:22
XATRIX	AH	00:22
XATRIX	Alright	00:22
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, possible and I have prepared this in my hdd in git	00:22
Pali	default root passwd is rootme	00:23
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DocScrutinizer05	go ahead!	00:23
Pali	and you can change it	00:23
Pali	also openssh server asking you for changing password	00:23
DocScrutinizer05	I'd just demand a proper user defined password as for ssh	00:23
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XATRIX	Old kernel version: 2.6.28.10-power52 \| New kernel version: U-boot 2012.10-rc3	00:24
DocScrutinizer05	if it's not set yet	00:24
Pali	XATRIX, flash it!	00:25
DocScrutinizer05	XATRIX: yes, ok	00:25
XATRIX	done	00:25
* XATRIX closed his eyes and pressed restart button		00:25
Pali	open keyboard	00:26
DocScrutinizer05	!!	00:26
XATRIX	)	00:26
Pali	with closed keyboard default kernel will be booted	00:26
DocScrutinizer05	after selecting kernel to boot in uBoot you probably want to imediately close kbd so you don't end up in BM	00:27
XATRIX	Alright, i see: 1) Attached kernel 2) Internal eMMC 3) External SD card 4) U-boot boot order 5) U-boot console	00:27
Pali	XATRIX, this looks like bootmenu was not generated	00:27
XATRIX	I'm fucked up ? :(	00:28
Pali	do you have first eMMC partition MyDocs formated as FAT32?	00:28
DocScrutinizer05	luckily this can get done	00:28
Pali	boot attached kernel	00:28
XATRIX	ok	00:28
XATRIX	about FAT32 - don't know	00:28
Pali	open xterm and post output of: df -h	00:28
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: yes he has	00:28
Pali	and also: mount	00:28
Pali	XATRIX and output of (as root): u-boot-update-bootmenu	00:29
kerio	he probably didn't generate u-boot-update-bootmenu because he installed u-boot after the bootimg	00:29
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: he installed uBoot after KP.img	00:29
Pali	u-boot calling u-boot-update-bootmenu is postinst	00:29
DocScrutinizer05	dang, kerio beat me to it	00:29
DocScrutinizer05	XATRIX: run u-boot-update-bootmenu	00:30
Pali	and post output	00:30
XATRIX	Ye, but i'm waiting it to boot	00:30
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, what is with extras-devel, autobuilder and maemo.org logging?	00:31
DocScrutinizer05	logging?	00:31
Pali	I cannot log to maemo.org	00:31
Pali	invalid username or password	00:31
DocScrutinizer05	aah, login	00:31
XATRIX	http://fpaste.org/5Oer/	00:33
DocScrutinizer05	a: merlin1991 supposed to fix the hasum errors which I hope he does today (we don't need sophisticated checks for pkg integrity, just rebuild hashsum file) b): x-fade MIA, c): we opened a ticket and asked Nemein to fix it	00:33
Pali	XATRIX, it is OK	00:33
Pali	try to reboot	00:33
XATRIX	ok	00:34
Pali	ubi0:rootfs 227.8M 136.4M 87.1M 61% /	00:34
Pali	I do not belive 87 MB free space??	00:34
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: if that's "ok2 then I need to write up a user interface guideline for you	00:35
Pali	DocScrutinizer05 ^^^ this is possible??	00:35
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DocScrutinizer05	sure	00:35
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DocScrutinizer05	ubi0:rootfs 228M 169M 56M 76% /	00:36
DocScrutinizer05	and I have already lots of shit on that	00:36
XATRIX	1) Maemo 5 with attached kernel 2.6.28-omap1 (Internal Nand) 2) Maemo 5 with kernel-power 2.6.28.10-power52 (Internal Nand) 3) U-Boot console	00:36
Pali	XATRIX, ok working fine	00:36
XATRIX	1 = 2 ?	00:36
DocScrutinizer05	o.O	00:36
Pali	kernel 2.6.28-omap1	00:36
Pali	kernel-power 2.6.28.10-power52	00:36
DocScrutinizer05	aaah, kernel-power	00:37
XATRIX	Yes, this is the order	00:37
Pali	1) is default nokia kernel, 2) is kernel-power	00:37
XATRIX	And the default one, will actually work ?	00:37
Pali	default is first in menu	00:37
XATRIX	I suppose it doesn't exist anymore ?	00:37
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Pali	no u-boot has glued default kernel	00:37
DocScrutinizer05	sigh it still exists, attached to uBoot	00:37
XATRIX	O_O	00:38
Pali	if you delete all kernels packages, you can always boot that one glued into uboot	00:38
DocScrutinizer05	if however the kernel MODULES are still around is beyond me	00:38
Pali	yes, you need -modules package	00:38
XATRIX	ok	00:38
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, what with "user interface guideline for you" mean?	00:38
DocScrutinizer05	I mean there are way too many error messages that are not meant to be errors	00:39
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DocScrutinizer05	and no fat "OK everything FINE" at end	00:39
kerio	rootfs 228M 117M 108M 53% /	00:40
Pali	yes, changing them to warnings (or ignore them) is good idea	00:40
kerio	you n00bz	00:40
Pali	kerio, did you removed full rootfs? :D	00:40
DocScrutinizer05	Error: Invalid file - missing kernel or script file	00:40
Pali	I have about 10MB	00:40
kerio	optified things	00:40
DocScrutinizer05	scares me to death ;-)	00:41
XATRIX	:)	00:41
Pali	if somebody is interesting.... need wiki page for uboot	00:41
Pali	XATRIX: default bootmenu entry can be configured with: ln -sf /etc/bootmenu.d/<entry> /etc/default/bootmenu.item	00:41
XATRIX	Ok, guys, i want to really thanks to all of you! You helped me as noone did :) And currently i have to go... See you tomorrow!	00:41
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XATRIX	Ok, i'll reconfigure it before i leave	00:42
XATRIX	It's a good idea to	00:42
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Pali	and do not forget to run u-boot-update-bootmenu after change	00:42
XATRIX	Yea	00:42
DocScrutinizer05	:-)	00:42
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XATRIX	Hm... i currently have no /etc/default/bootmenu.item :)	00:43
MohammadAG	have a daemon do that when there's an inotify on /etc/bootmenu.d/* :P	00:43
MohammadAG	<Pali> XATRIX: default bootmenu entry can be configured with: ln -sf /etc/bootmenu.d/<entry> /etc/default/bootmenu.item	00:43
Pali	XATRIX, then attached menu is used	00:43
Pali	kerio, do you want to write uboot wiki page? :-)	00:44
kerio	not really, i'm kinda sleepy	00:44
kerio	i'm in bed	00:44
Pali	I'm going sleep too, bye :-)	00:45
kerio	night pal	00:45
kerio	8	00:45
DocScrutinizer05	MohammadAG: haha, nice	00:45
kerio	er, i	00:45
DocScrutinizer05	cruft	00:45
XATRIX	Ok, now it's working !	00:45
DocScrutinizer05	bye Pali	00:45
XATRIX	Thanks thanks thanks!	00:45
MohammadAG	night Pali	00:46
XATRIX	goodnight guys!	00:46
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DocScrutinizer05	n8	00:46
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MohammadAG	getting a USB DAC soon, would be nice to have it working on the N9	00:46
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DocScrutinizer05	hmm, no way	00:47
DocScrutinizer05	HARM 666	00:47
MohammadAG	maybe I'll butcher the N900 patches into the N9 kernel	00:47
DocScrutinizer05	won't work	00:47
MohammadAG	why? it'd just need 5V boost I'd guess	00:47
DocScrutinizer05	no, it's different hw	00:47
MohammadAG	same musb though?	00:48
DocScrutinizer05	actually it should be simpler than on N900	00:48
MohammadAG	I assume cause the ID pin is connected	00:48
DocScrutinizer05	that too	00:48
MohammadAG	then besides something handling vboost what else is missing?	00:48
MohammadAG	or is the whole switching mech missing?	00:49
DocScrutinizer05	otoh two alternative boost systems in device	00:49
MohammadAG	use rand() to pick one, easy as pie! :P	00:49
DocScrutinizer05	twl4030 chagepump and bq2415x boost	00:49
DocScrutinizer05	if twl4030 would start chargepump as supposed to do with standard kernels, it might smoke up system since it tries to charge same time via bq2415x	00:50
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MohammadAG	(stop bme?)	00:51
DocScrutinizer05	so you need: "standard" beagleboard OTG kernel stuff, remove twl4030 chargepump, replace it by bq2415x-boost	00:51
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, and stop bme	00:51
MohammadAG	AND stop bme?	00:51
DocScrutinizer05	AND stop bme	00:51
MohammadAG	wouldn't using twl4030 as boost and stopping bme make the device ignore bq*?	00:52
DocScrutinizer05	which again is kernel->userspace and thus EVIL	00:52
DocScrutinizer05	err yes, probably	00:53
MohammadAG	so it shouldn't smoke up :P	00:53
DocScrutinizer05	but I doubt twl4030 chargepump works as supposed	00:53
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DocScrutinizer05	and bq2415x would still enter emergency chaging mode	00:53
MohammadAG	what if the USB device is self powered?	00:53
DocScrutinizer05	due to chip reset on bme stopped	00:54
DocScrutinizer05	doesn't cjange a thing, it still needs VBUS on N9	00:54
DocScrutinizer05	without VBUS the musb won't start a session	00:54
MohammadAG	is the N950 the same?	00:54
DocScrutinizer05	basicaly yes, afaik	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	nobody ever seen schematics of 950	00:55
MohammadAG	so small question	00:55
MohammadAG	why hasn't anyone picked this up?	00:55
MohammadAG	aegis-fu and open mode?	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	javispedro has	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	then lost interest after some tries	00:56
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MohammadAG	did he get something working?	00:56
DocScrutinizer05	nah, not more than I did: vboost	00:56
MohammadAG	he got vboost working?	00:56
DocScrutinizer05	I got booston working	00:57
DocScrutinizer05	2 years ago	00:57
MohammadAG	so only OTG needs to be fixed?	00:57
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DocScrutinizer05	yes, 'only' kernel OTG needs to get fixed	00:57
MohammadAG	(and the fuck? it's been 2 years since the N9 was out?)	00:57
DocScrutinizer05	as I said, mostly beagleboard stuff I'd guess	00:58
MohammadAG	hmm, that's a fun project to work on	00:58
DocScrutinizer05	good luck!	00:58
MohammadAG	where are the latest N9 sources?	00:58
DocScrutinizer05	drop by and ask if you need help	00:58
DocScrutinizer05	#harmattan	00:59
MohammadAG	I'm always here (at least when my home PC doesn't shut down, I moved znc to it)	00:59
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r00t^home	<DocScrutinizer05> r00t^home: gconftool -R /\|less <--- thanks! but i asked for fs location becuse i need to restore it from an fs-level backup	02:02
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DocScrutinizer05	I guess the correct way is to check the gconf schemata then, the pragmatic way probably is grep	02:04
r00t^home	yeah...	02:08
r00t^home	just grepping for the password isn't easy if i don't know the password ;)	02:08
r00t^home	i'll just hope that changing the password at the provider will eventually work	02:08
DocScrutinizer05	well, you find the password with my orgininal suggestion	02:09
r00t^home	but it probably won't store the password unless it's correct...	02:09
DocScrutinizer05	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68063	02:10
r00t^home	thanks, thanks...	02:10
r00t^home	but it's not urgend anymore, i already solved the problem at hand by walking over ;)	02:10
r00t^home	*urgent	02:10
RST38h	...SCP-1902 is capable of communication by shaping portions of its mass into rough approximations of characters in Japanese, although it is capable of understanding all languages tested thus far.	02:12
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DocScrutinizer05	uhuh!	02:17
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DHR	I just picked up another n800. What's the best firmware to put on it these days?	06:42
Luke-Jr	trash bin	06:43
DHR	that's where I got it from.	06:43
Luke-Jr	also where it belongs	06:43
Luke-Jr	:/	06:43
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sombragris	hi.. good afternoon	06:56
sombragris	I'm having trouble browsing some packages at maemo.org	06:56
sombragris	for example, when browsing extras-testing-devel	06:58
sombragris	using a web browser	06:59
sombragris	I can get up to page 39 (letter L of packages)	06:59
sombragris	however, page 40 gives an empty response.	06:59
sombragris	i.e., this URL: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/?org_openpsa_qbpager_packages_in_repo_page=40	06:59
sombragris	any suggestions? hints?	06:59
sombragris	thanks :)	06:59
thedead1440	sombragris: why not browse via repository.maemo.org?	07:00
thedead1440	http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/	07:00
thedead1440	or is it because you want to read description of each package?	07:00
sombragris	thedead1440: you got it. I'm browsing trying to get a gist of some packages. I'm hunting especially for twitter clients and presence notifications	07:02
sombragris	anyway, thanks for the suggestion. Will keep that in mind	07:02
sombragris	however, the issue still stands. I cannot get to page 40	07:02
thedead1440	i've reported the issue to the sysadmins; since its basically early morning in EU it may take a few hours but they'll look into it	07:03
sombragris	great	07:03
sombragris	thank you	07:03
thedead1440	np	07:03
sombragris	you know	07:03
sombragris	I bought a N900 last week	07:03
sombragris	brand new	07:03
sombragris	lost mine last April and always wanted another one	07:03
thedead1440	that's nice :)	07:03
thedead1440	oh	07:03
sombragris	so... i'm looking to rebuild my environment	07:04
thedead1440	for twitter i think the clients that work are the tweetian backport and twimgo	07:04
sombragris	the migration issues put some bumps on that road but I really appreciate the enormous effort people are doing with that	07:04
sombragris	will look into tweetian.	07:05
thedead1440	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88248	07:05
thedead1440	try the backport on post #5 of the thread	07:05
thedead1440	its alpha but looks quite promising	07:05
sombragris	as for twimgo, the libqtm11 requirement is blacklisted. Can't get around it.	07:06
sombragris	my N900 skills are all rusty now	07:06
sombragris	:P	07:06
thedead1440	tweego by merlin1991 seems ok too: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1285988&postcount=459	07:06
sombragris	I used to use TweeGo back in the day but now it cannot login	07:06
thedead1440	oh due to API issues	07:06
sombragris	running from the console it echoes a 404	07:06
sombragris	:S	07:07
thedead1440	merlin1991 says on the post that he would update the api to v1.1 as it expired this month but i wonder if he has come around to actually doing it	07:07
sombragris	problem is I need to manage two or three accounts, with two or three searches	07:07
sombragris	let hope he does. I didn't see any update, neither in testing or devel	07:07
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sombragris	so far the best stuff I've seen is tweed suite, but it's single use	07:08
sombragris	single-user, sorry	07:08
thedead1440	yeah auto-builder is broken since somewhile so updated packages are not pushed thru... Maybe later when merlin1991 is around you can ask him if he plans to update TweeGo :)	07:08
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sombragris	anyway. N900 has that thing. It spoils you. Even with these bumps you simply cannot settle down for something else	07:09
sombragris	:P	07:09
sombragris	ok	07:09
thedead1440	:D	07:09
sombragris	thedead1440: thank you for the advice. Very useful. Will take that into account.	07:09
thedead1440	np ;)	07:09
sombragris	bye now. it's 02.10 (am) here and I need to hit the sheets. ttyl	07:10
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thedead1440	good night	07:10
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XATRIX	Good morning guys! :)	14:16
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Estel_	(about discussion from yesterday) can someone explain me, why, precisely, COBS > autobuilder idea was abandoned?	14:16
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Estel_	DocScrutinizer05 said "Nokia pulled plug on it", but I've though that HiFo isn't now forced to follow what nokia said?	14:17
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Estel_	I just wonder if there is any sense at all in working on bringing autobuilder back again, especially, that almost no one gest his internals, and X-Fade is MIA	14:18
jacekowski	i do	14:18
jacekowski	i've built my own autobuilder	14:18
Estel_	nice! so please, fix it for maemo ;)	14:19
Estel_	they will welcome you with open arms	14:19
jacekowski	with a bit of x-fade help on what is used in maemo autobuilder	14:19
Estel_	thats the point.	14:19
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Estel_	maemo autobuilder is snafu	14:19
jacekowski	but that was mostly because i wanted to have similiar setup	14:19
jacekowski	what is the problem with it exactly?	14:20
Estel_	I just wonder, a tiny bit ;) if it could be sane, to redirect people that could be working in autobuilder, into setting up cobs instead, precisely, finishing work on it	14:20
Estel_	at this point, it doesn't matter if it will take 2 months or half of a year - ETA for autobuilder getting online is equally unknown	14:20
jacekowski	my autobuilder is exactly same as maemo, only difference was repository management	14:21
Estel_	jacekowski, ask DocScrutinizer05	14:21
Estel_	I see	14:21
Estel_	well, DocScrutinizer05 ^	14:21
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Estel_	jacekowski, from my very limited knowledge, at some point, autobuilder started to generate wrong hashsums (or stopped regenerating itj for new packages. Oldest confirmed package with such problem is from 10.2012	14:22
Estel_	then, web interface stopped working, but scp was available	14:22
Estel_	later, everything stopped qworking all-together ;)	14:22
jacekowski	wrong hashsums	14:22
Estel_	for techynical details, ask people who have access to it, DocScrutinizer05 should know smth about i	14:22
Estel_	it*	14:22
jacekowski	i thought i was just a problem that key has expired	14:23
Estel_	jacekowski, nope	14:23
jacekowski	it*	14:23
XATRIX	Which A-GPS serve is more preferable ?	14:23
XATRIX	I don't think supl.nokia.com is running	14:23
Estel_	XATRIX, supl.google.com, sadly	14:23
jacekowski	which would make all the hashsums incorrect	14:23
Estel_	jacekowski, hm?	14:23
Estel_	interesting, but not all hashes are wrong	14:23
Estel_	but	14:24
Estel_	maybe only onesa since key expired?	14:24
jacekowski	yep	14:24
Estel_	no idea, I'm just shotting into the wild, please stay tuned for merlin1991 or DocScrutinizer05 apperance, if you could help with autobuilder, it would be useful to the point of blessing	14:24
jacekowski	although, the problem here is, that even if you generate new key	14:25
jacekowski	phones will not trust it	14:25
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XATRIX	Once again, can you tell me the good list of repos i have to setup on my device ? I mean ,that repos i can safely hold always enabled ?	14:27
Estel_	jacekowski, can be fixed by abusing cssu, probably	14:27
XATRIX	From where i can update	14:28
Estel_	XATRIX, none at the moment ;)	14:28
Estel_	otherwise	14:28
Estel_	~mirrors	14:28
infobot	i heard mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error	14:28
XATRIX	O_O	14:28
Estel_	(to keep enabled always)	14:28
XATRIX	Which of i can trust ?	14:28
Estel_	(=none)	14:28
XATRIX	Khm....Khm..	14:28
Estel_	well, if you trust merlin1991, use his repos	14:28
DocScrutinizer05	jacekowski: Estel_ summarized it pretty correctly	14:28
* Estel_ is surprised - no irony, just got little to no knowledge here		14:28
DocScrutinizer05	jacekowski: right now builder VM is up but totally dysfunct	14:29
DocScrutinizer05	and we actually have NFC what's up with it	14:29
XATRIX	What's the difference between community-testing/devel and Extras-testing/devel ?	14:29
DocScrutinizer05	jacekowski: we have a maintainer for repo which is merlin1991, we got nobody in community with a faintest clue about autobuilder	14:30
DocScrutinizer05	jacekowski: if you would consider to help, pretty please step up, we'd appreciate any help you can give. I can grant access to autobuilder VM for you	14:31
jacekowski	i don't have time to do it today	14:32
jacekowski	but i'm happy to help tomorrow	14:32
kerio	we could just make a new autobuilder	14:32
Estel_	haha. It's not about today, it's about at all ;)	14:32
DocScrutinizer05	any time you want :-)	14:32
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Estel_	but, it would be useful to create access to VM nevertheless, yep? after all, tomorrow is just after today	14:33
* Estel_ blinks		14:33
jacekowski	i just have to finish a program that has to be ready last friday	14:36
jacekowski	but i was given the spec for it today	14:36
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Estel_	sounds familliar ;)	14:37
XATRIX	Is it ok to install "h-e-n (USB hostmode GUI) ?	14:40
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XATRIX	Also QCPUFreq - to enable Smartreflex and clock to 250-800 mhz	14:45
Estel_	I would skip qcpufreq	14:45
Estel_	for rest, search TMO	14:45
Estel_	btw both assume that you have kernel-power	14:45
Estel_	better use kp52 from first post of kp51 thread (yea, sounds logical, I know...)	14:46
Estel_	due to kp52 being release rewady, but no way to release it, with autobuilder down	14:46
DocScrutinizer05	XATRIX: h-e-n is ok	14:46
XATRIX	Estel_: why don't you lile qcpufreq ?	14:47
XATRIX	DocScrutinizer05: ok	14:47
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DocScrutinizer05	~oc	14:47
infobot	i heard oc is an Optical Carrier, An OC1 has 672 channels or 44.736 Mbit/s	14:47
DocScrutinizer05	~omap-oc	14:47
infobot	well, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11	14:47
DocScrutinizer05	~verclocking	14:47
DocScrutinizer05	~overclocking	14:47
infobot	"OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?"	14:47
DocScrutinizer05	or in short: despite widely used by those who think it's "1337", OC is deprecated	14:48
DocScrutinizer05	and smartreflex I already elaborated yesterday(?), it's probably not doing much since our kernel is doing same in software what SR does in hw, and it's deprecated by Nokia/TI(?) for introducing instabilities to at least some devices	14:50
SpeedEvil	sr did improve battery life somewhat when I tried it. back when it was enabled	14:51
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SpeedEvil	but some may indeed unstable	14:52
teotwaki	Testacular - Spectacular Test Runner for JavaScript	14:53
teotwaki	Fantastic name.	14:54
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DocScrutinizer05	almost as good as fapman	15:06
XATRIX	What can you advice me to install to be able to dynamically overclock/downclock my CPU + smartreflex ?	15:16
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XATRIX	Is it a good idea to place a thing, that will show my current battery level in percentage or whatever ?	15:27
XATRIX	Will it drain more energy ?	15:28
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XATRIX	?	15:47
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XATRIX	HAM is freaking sloooooow!! :(	15:49
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DocScrutinizer05	orly?	16:12
DocScrutinizer05	XATRIX: adbice: do not mess with cpuclock and SR	16:13
DocScrutinizer05	showing current batterylevel is useless for more than what battery statusbar applet already shows you	16:14
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DocScrutinizer05	and yes, it most likely will drain additional energy from bat just for showing redundant info	16:14
DocScrutinizer05	some of those desktop applets are notorious for doing so	16:14
DocScrutinizer05	HAM gets the slower, the more large repositories you got enabled	16:15
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DocScrutinizer05	with extras-devel it takes ~7min to build initial screen	16:15
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edheldil	... and 7 minutes again each timeyou actually do anything	16:16
XATRIX	:( crap	16:16
DocScrutinizer05	originally they planned to name it "zen-teacher" ;-)	16:18
XATRIX	Why are you so against SR and oclock ?	16:19
DocScrutinizer05	because it's useless and may cause instabilities and damage	16:19
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Hurrian	DocScrutinizer05, HAM is slow, period.	16:20
DocScrutinizer05	e.h HAM could probably get speed up to 6 instead of 7 min, at cost of your device defect after 500h instead of 10000h	16:20
DocScrutinizer05	e.g.	16:20
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Hurrian	it could be argued that it's best used only for 1) initial setup of Extras-* repos, and 2) system upgrades	16:21
DocScrutinizer05	and according to my former explanations that our kernel does cpu clock and voltage regulation in sw, SR is probably absolutely useless	16:21
* kerio uses it for neither of those		16:21
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DocScrutinizer05	kerio: you probably shouldn't join discussions when it comes to teaching newcomers how to use N900	16:22
* kerio goes back in his corner, quietly sobbing		16:23
DocScrutinizer05	you're trying to teach how to do a wheely to a bike learner	16:23
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XATRIX	You think overclock of ARM harms the SoC ?	16:25
XATRIX	It's not a usual overvoltage clocking	16:25
XATRIX	It's a softclock	16:25
XATRIX	Like if i would rise the multiplier of Intel/AMD CPUs	16:26
DocScrutinizer05	overclocking of OMAP massively reduces expected lifespan	16:26
XATRIX	I'm not clocking the system bus	16:26
XATRIX	Hm	16:26
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: don't we have a datasheet regarding that?	16:26
DocScrutinizer05	~omap-oc	16:26
infobot	somebody said omap-oc was http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11	16:26
DocScrutinizer05	second link	16:27
Hurrian	XATRIX: electromigration, etc.	16:27
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XATRIX	Hurrian: maybe i say bullshit, but it's not a cell , to accumulate electrons...	16:29
XATRIX	IMHO	16:29
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Hurrian	XATRIX: well, whatever you want to do with your device, we're not stopping you. It /is/ the N900 after all.	16:31
Hurrian	Just don't come running to the forums when 3 = 1 + 1.	16:31
kerio	or, more likely, when SIGSEGV	16:32
XATRIX	I think all of the ARM7 CPUs are the same... The same core... The difference is only in a percent of so called 'bad' CPUs on a market	16:32
kerio	SIGSEGV ALL THE THINGS	16:32
DocScrutinizer05	all OCing is usually worthless anyway, since bottleneck is RAM (or lack of) and swapping	16:32
XATRIX	The all can run at the highest clock, but all can give different results, depending on how 'clean' was it built	16:32
jaska	and.. completely awful code (ham)	16:32
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DocScrutinizer05	XATRIX: that's definitely not true	16:33
XATRIX	Hm , sure ?	16:33
DocScrutinizer05	they get selected at fab	16:33
DocScrutinizer05	so called binning	16:33
Hurrian	XATRIX: ARMv7 Cortex-A8 is most definitely not the same with Cortex-A15 ;)	16:33
XATRIX	Yes, the most broken costs cheap, the better costs higher	16:34
XATRIX	Hurrian: nope, i mean just for example, AMD Athlon 3200+ = AMD Athlon 5600+	16:34
XATRIX	But 3200 has much more 'broken' transisters	16:35
Hurrian	XATRIX: To take from your example, it's like unlocking shaders on a recent Radeon card.	16:35
Hurrian	If you do happen to unlock shaders on a partially-defective Radeon, it's bricked.	16:35
jaska	so, they effectively sell people trashbin-quality omaps <.<	16:35
XATRIX	I forgot the word, for a term. The 'way' on machinery plant, where the cars are built	16:35
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XATRIX	Hurrian: Sure, that's what i'm talking about ! Like with shaders!	16:36
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XATRIX	It's just the same GPU as the top most.	16:36
Hurrian	well, uhh, yeah, see, the problem is, 600 MHz is pretty near the top of line line OMAP 34xx series SoCs TI was shipping at the time	16:37
XATRIX	But it has locked shader 'faclilities'	16:37
Hurrian	the only one higher than that is the slightly later-manufactured OMAP 35xx series, the highest of which are 720 something MHz	16:37
Hurrian	*note: OMAP 34xx = 35xx.	16:37
XATRIX	Maybe, i don't know :(	16:38
Hurrian	XATRIX: They're definitely not made to go at 1GHz, although they can do so.	16:38
Hurrian	It's like redlining an engine - you can do so, still won't stop your engine knocking after a few hours of doing so.	16:38
jaska	i remember old celeron 266:s (without L2 cache), they would go 266->400 without a fan, 266->450 if you add a small fan, and i had one running for about a decade	16:39
XATRIX	yea	16:39
XATRIX	I have OCed my Phenom II 965 3.4Ghz to 3.8 (each core)	16:40
XATRIX	So, my approx profit is ~+1.5Ghz	16:40
jaska	well, cant really count that way.. %	16:41
XATRIX	And it will not go down earlier then i will upgrade my PC :)	16:41
XATRIX	s/then/than	16:41
Hurrian	XATRIX: performance gain on overclocked processors isn't linear, though	16:41
XATRIX	Hurrian: as i said, apporximately :)	16:41
jaska	memory is still awfully slow on modern pcs	16:41
XATRIX	Yep	16:42
Hurrian	jaska: 3000 MHz DDR3 isn't cheap.	16:42
XATRIX	+ 30-45% price for ECC	16:43
XATRIX	Btw, is it ok, to install kernel-module-ntfs ?	16:43
Hurrian	XATRIX: use ntfs-3g instead. Also, who uses ECC on a desktop system?	16:43
jaska	i used to use ecc on desktops until they made it require a xeon :(	16:43
XATRIX	Noone, but who mentioned a desktop system talking about DDR3 , last minute ? :)	16:44
Hurrian	I'm running a Nehalem Xeon, but I can't be assed to put down that much dosh on ECC RAM.	16:44
jaska	dunno how much 64 gigs of ddr3 ecc is.	16:44
Hurrian	jaska: Well, a regular 1x8GB DDR3 DIMM is $50.	16:45
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Hurrian	So, 1x8GB of DDR3 ECC should be around $80 or so.	16:45
jaska	i paid around 500 eur for 8x8 of ddr3-2133	16:45
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Hurrian	jaska: Corsair Dominator Platinums?	16:46
jaska	nah, some kingston set	16:46
XATRIX	Kingston Value RAM )	16:46
Hurrian	Damn, that's expensive.	16:46
jaska	hyperx something	16:46
XATRIX	I don't think Kingston is a bad RAM	16:47
XATRIX	It's quite good enough	16:47
Hurrian	jaska: HyperX blu?	16:47
jaska	beast or somesuch	16:47
Hurrian	speaking of ValueRAM, I need to buy 4x4GB of DIMMs for my system.	16:48
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Hurrian	Really don't feel like paying twice that for 3x8GB of DIMMs.	16:48
jaska	i wish i could get more ram on the n900 :(	16:49
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XATRIX	Re-solder it	16:49
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Hurrian	XATRIX: You haven't seen how thin that POP RAM is, have you	16:50
XATRIX	No	16:50
Hurrian	It's like three A4 sheets stacked.	16:51
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Hurrian	Oh, and you have to be extra careful not to scratch or let any solder on the core in the middle, under the RAM.	16:51
jaska	the amount of memory bugs me far more than the low clockspeed	16:52
XATRIX	You don't have to	16:53
XATRIX	Use the hi-temp fan	16:53
XATRIX	Warm it from the other side, and put the chip from the top	16:53
XATRIX	It will fit as it was there from the beginning ;)	16:54
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Drathir	ddr2 is a nightmare prices :/	17:03
Drathir	hi all	17:03
XATRIX	Yea :)	17:03
XATRIX	It's even more expensive than DDRI	17:03
XATRIX	What memory chips is in N900 ?	17:04
Drathir	yea more strange that ppl and shops should sold it not keep them with high prices :/	17:04
Drathir	i have ddr2 motherboard and hunting to "human" ddr2 prices...	17:06
DocScrutinizer05	anyway the point is that SoCs / OMAP seems to behave different than desktop PC CPU	17:06
Drathir	XATRIX: nand flash 256?	17:06
XATRIX	Yea	17:07
DocScrutinizer05	and it's already "Overclocked" by fab settings allowing it to go to 600MHz	17:07
XATRIX	Is it DDR2 or 3 ?	17:07
DocScrutinizer05	there's been a warning from Nokia engineer that you MUST NOT lock it to 600MHz even, otherwise you will fry the N900	17:08
XATRIX	DocScrutinizer05: heh... the initial clock was ~0 Mhz ? ;)	17:08
DocScrutinizer05	no, the stabdard sustained max clock is 500MHz	17:08
DocScrutinizer05	standard	17:08
DocScrutinizer05	600 is already "overclocking" it, which is only used for busts	17:09
DocScrutinizer05	bursts*	17:09
XATRIX	It's not so fast to call it "bursts"	17:09
RST38h	for this cpu it is	17:09
DocScrutinizer05	it reduces lifetime of chip to 15% of original design lifetime	17:10
Drathir	sad that nokia cant make chips radiators from phone cover :p	17:10
DocScrutinizer05	lifetime of CPU @ 500MHz = 100%, @600 = 15% !!!	17:10
Drathir	DocScrutinizer05: thats freq :/	17:11
DocScrutinizer05	guess what it is @800, or even at 1000	17:11
jacekowski	BB runs at higher frequencies	17:11
Drathir	i hear thatlife is smaller but why that dramatically?	17:11
jacekowski	with exactly same chips	17:11
jacekowski	with just bit more rigorous selection	17:12
XATRIX	I respect you're experience, and always note what you say. But touching the 600 = 15% - i don't believe it	17:12
DocScrutinizer05	different binning	17:12
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jacekowski	15% seems bit drastic	17:12
DocScrutinizer05	XATRIX: well, that's what is clearly stated in datasheet	17:12
jacekowski	bb is running at 800 iirc	17:12
XATRIX	It's not goes overvolt, it doesn't provide too much Watts for +100Mhz.. It can't be almost dead at the beginning	17:13
DocScrutinizer05	~omap-oc	17:13
infobot	rumour has it, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11	17:13
XATRIX	I was rinning 800, and still looks good enough	17:13
jacekowski	XATRIX: +100Mhz means a lot more current	17:13
jacekowski	XATRIX: current depends on switching frequency	17:13
XATRIX	jacekowski: current != voltage	17:13
DocScrutinizer05	http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/omap3525-hirel.pdf page 122 3.3 Recommended Operating Conditions	17:13
jacekowski	XATRIX: more current == more power	17:13
jacekowski	as in, more watts	17:14
XATRIX	negative	17:14
jacekowski	P=UI	17:14
jacekowski	if I increases P increases	17:14
jacekowski	because U stays constant	17:14
XATRIX	I had my Centrino processor, it gave 25W @1.6Ghz. I have my next one 2.13 also gave 25W	17:14
XATRIX	The same voltages	17:14
jacekowski	different processors	17:15
DocScrutinizer05	but different devices	17:15
Drathir	architecture of chip also make big difference	17:15
DocScrutinizer05	that's why the select/bin chips at fab	17:15
Drathir	arch in nm	17:15
jacekowski	in typical FET device there is a small "capacitor" inside each transistor	17:15
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jacekowski	that capacitor has to be charged/discharged and that's where the heat comes from	17:16
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jacekowski	if you increase frequency you increases losses there	17:16
jacekowski	and you increase switching loses	17:16
DocScrutinizer05	ok sorry, I've been wrong	17:16
DocScrutinizer05	it's not 15% but 20%	17:16
jacekowski	so let's say at 500MHz you have 5W of power	17:16
Drathir	lol bad DocScrutinizer05 bad :p	17:16
XATRIX	Maybe 100%-20% = 80% lifetime, i can agree	17:16
Drathir	joke ofc	17:17
DocScrutinizer05	no	17:17
jacekowski	at 600Mhz you will have at least 6W	17:17
DocScrutinizer05	it's 50k DOWN TO 10k	17:17
XATRIX	jacekowski: yes, that makes sens	17:17
DocScrutinizer05	NOT down by 10k	17:17
jacekowski	in practice it will be more like 6.5-7W	17:17
XATRIX	Yes, the overhead Watts	17:18
jacekowski	once you reach chip limits power increases a lot more due to other effects	17:18
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XATRIX	As i actually told	17:18
XATRIX	But it still can't be 10% lifetime went down from 100%	17:18
jacekowski	yes it can	17:18
XATRIX	just with 10%overclock	17:18
jacekowski	it's not 10%	17:19
jacekowski	it's 20% overclock	17:19
jacekowski	and it's worst case scenario	17:19
DocScrutinizer05	if your steel rope cam lift 1000kg at 20°C and 800kg at 500°C, how much can it lift at 1000°C?	17:19
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XATRIX	50 ?	17:19
jaska	0	17:19
jacekowski	depends	17:20
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer05: 600 kg	17:20
jacekowski	before it melts	17:20
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jacekowski	and 10k hours is still around a year	17:22
DocScrutinizer05	yes, but then, that's without any overclocking as they call that nonsense	17:23
DocScrutinizer05	how much will that rope lift at 1200°C?	17:23
DocScrutinizer05	at 1400°, 1500° ?	17:24
jacekowski	you said 10k hours at 600Mhz	17:24
DocScrutinizer05	we have official numbers that tell us 500MHz->600MHz == 100%->20% lifetime	17:25
jacekowski	which is still perfectly acceptable considering that phone will sleep more than 70% of the time	17:25
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DocScrutinizer05	up to you to guess what it will be for 800Mhz	17:25
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jacekowski	so in reality it means 3 years in worst case scenario	17:25
DocScrutinizer05	or even 1000Mhz which some "leete overclockers" suggest would work "just fine for everybody"	17:26
DocScrutinizer05	bottom line: OC is deprecated and usually not worth it	17:27
jacekowski	and if let's say we could do 1h at 1GHz	17:28
jacekowski	it's probably going to last longer if we run for 1s at a time at 1GHz	17:29
DocScrutinizer05	I could figure a specially patched mplayer that overclocks to 800 for very short periods of time, occasionally, to avoid framedropping during complex transitions of encoding	17:29
jacekowski	so 1s sleep 1s 1Ghz is probably going to last longer than 1h	17:29
eccerr0r	a lot of this is statistical, I overclocked two celeron 300's to 450MHz. One of which is pretty much dead after around 3 years. Other one is still perfectly fine but... still long since obsolete. YMMV. I never knew the omap was so fragile...	17:29
jacekowski	eccerr0r: those devices are pushed quite far and have no heatsinking at all	17:30
DocScrutinizer05	eccerr0r: again, we're not talking about celeron but about OMAP, and the figures as of above are hard numbers from datasheet	17:30
jacekowski	bear in mind that TI will cover their ass	17:31
jacekowski	and that number probably means that after 10k hours 1 device have failed	17:32
eccerr0r	if reliability drops that quickly... must be something that intel does and ti does not... :\	17:32
DocScrutinizer05	no, 17 of 1000	17:32
jacekowski	that number doesn't mean a lot unless we can get full distribution	17:32
DocScrutinizer05	it's about embedded, eccerr0r	17:33
jacekowski	because it may be that 90% of devices will last 30k hours at 600MHz	17:33
eccerr0r	the question is... what about samsung and other chips.	17:33
jacekowski	eccerr0r: same	17:33
eccerr0r	err... manufacturers.	17:33
kerio	embedded is a whole different bag of BS	17:33
eccerr0r	i should overclock my atom chip and see when it will die	17:33
jacekowski	eccerr0r: for ARM normal "idle" temperature is around 60C when running	17:33
DocScrutinizer05	the whole chip is smaler than celeron die	17:33
jacekowski	eccerr0r: and when you load it it's twice as much	17:34
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	17:34
jacekowski	which causes thermall stresses that don't help	17:34
DocScrutinizer05	exactly	17:34
jacekowski	and then you have electromigration	17:34
DocScrutinizer05	~wiki electromigration	17:34
infobot	At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{More footnotes\|date=July 2010}} 'Electromigration' is the transport of material caused by the gradual movement of the ions in a conductor due to the momentum transfer between conducting electrons and diffusing metal atoms. The effect is important in applications where high direct current densities are used, such as in microelectronics and related structures. As the structure ...	17:35
jacekowski	celeron running at 450MHz will have reasonably stable temperature	17:35
jacekowski	and those chips used to be made in much bigger process	17:35
jaska	the l2-cacheless old celeron was a slug without the oc :)	17:35
DocScrutinizer05	XATRIX: so again, do not OC! it's not as leete as you might think	17:37
kerio	my n900 can't get to 850	17:37
XATRIX	Alright, i won't	17:37
kerio	i think	17:37
XATRIX	kerio: mine does 850 pretty well, and stable as hell	17:37
jacekowski	thing is, rpi for example	17:37
jacekowski	normal clock for that chip is 700Mhz and people run it at close to 1GHz	17:38
XATRIX	What's the name of the app, that displays cpu load/memory in tray ?	17:39
jacekowski	and so far there has been no reports of premature failures	17:39
Drathir	i trust and also dont oc my n900...	17:41
jacekowski	and well, there is a lot of people that overclocked their n900's	17:41
jacekowski	and we had no reports of premature failures	17:42
jacekowski	there was few that was suspected to be OC related	17:42
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* eccerr0r does not OC his n900. It doesn't have to compile like his celeron had to...		17:43
Drathir	i have oc my old celeron fron 433 to 550 but on abit motherboard...	17:43
Drathir	have working on it gta and also working vista os... ^^ with riva tnt2 64mb	17:45
eccerr0r	i didn't even have to oc my gf4 mx420 before id succumbed to electromigration :p	17:46
eccerr0r	s/ id / it /	17:46
infobot	eccerr0r meant: i didn't even have to oc my gf4 mx420 before it succumbed to electromigration :p	17:46
Drathir	but this was long time ago....	17:46
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eccerr0r	also one of my samsung flip phones. it got pretty scrambled after 3 years, definitely did not drop or water it.	17:48
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eccerr0r	then again solder failure is still a possibility... but once again,it's too old to be of value to reflow it anyway...	17:49
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DocScrutinizer05	jacekowski: that's incorrect, ther have been several reports, just none of them could be proven to be caused by OC	17:51
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DocScrutinizer05	eccerr0r: yes, that sounds normal - 2 of 100 devices get "fried" after 2 or 3 years	17:54
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DocScrutinizer05	jacekowski: and particularly we seem to have seen quite a number of N900 whose DSP started to lock up and reset like mad after some time of overclocking	17:56
DocScrutinizer05	lusers: "meh! I don't need to watch movies on that shitty N900 anyway"	17:57
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DocScrutinizer05	well, that's also a valid way to deal with OC and own overly leeteness	17:58
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Estel_	smartreflex is stable using kernel-power and up to 900 mhz, and indeed provide better batery life, proven scientificaly, without need to painfullyh adjust power on all frequencies	18:02
Estel_	you may get same power saving results by setting voltages by hand, but current SR implementation does it better than you and automagically	18:02
Estel_	and no one ever get any confirmed case of N900 damaged by overclocking	18:03
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Estel_	thing forwardeds most of the times was, later, detected to be flex cable problem	18:03
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Estel_	even crazy ones using 1150 as max, are doing so for years without freakin problem. Personally, I wouldn't go higher than 900 mhz, as anything above is just numerology	18:04
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Estel_	I suggested to drop qcpu frequency, as it's beter done once for all via kernel-config, and left alone	18:04
Estel_	personally, I suggest 500-900 limits, some people got better results with 250-900	18:05
Estel_	(as for battery life). From my experience and my use cases, 500-900 results in more idle time @ 0 mhz	18:05
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jacekowski	isn't dsp on other pll than main arm core?	18:08
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discopig	hi	18:17
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Skry	~bq27000	18:20
Skry	GIEV!	18:20
Skry	oh	18:20
kerio	~bq27200	18:27
infobot	from memory, bq27k-detail is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2	18:27
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DocScrutinizer05	jacekowski: nope	18:40
DocScrutinizer05	seems they share same clocksource and divider	18:40
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DocScrutinizer05	>>proven scientificaly<< quotations please!	18:42
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DocScrutinizer05	and don't start to argue with theoretical evidence again, as that's not proof	18:43
DocScrutinizer05	>>Personally, I wouldn't go higher than 900 mhz, as anything above is just numerology<< so what's this then? those 900 seem to be right outa somebody's back end	18:47
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DocScrutinizer05	fact is: lifespan of SoC gets reduced DRASTICALLY (like factor 10..100) by overclocking, while operation isn't necessarily instable until CPU dies	18:50
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DocScrutinizer05	fact is: Nokia deprecated SR as it shown instabiities in at least some devices. While I yet have to see any of the supposedly existing "scientific proofs" of the enormous power savings allegedly achievable by enabling SR	18:52
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DocScrutinizer05	let's see... assuming the electromigration was of a low order function, then clock1.166 == lifespan0.2, 5001.1661.1661.1661.166=925MHz -> lifespan 1000.20.20.20.2=0.16% of original lifespan	19:12
DocScrutinizer05	probably electromigration is a higher order function	19:13
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DocScrutinizer05	original lifespan of omap3430 is like 50,000 or even 100,000h, so let's assume 100k hours	19:16
DocScrutinizer05	~100000/100*0.16	19:16
infobot	160	19:16
jean_brat	recently have observed a huge price drop in N9, Plan to get myself one, Is it still a good buy?	19:17
DocScrutinizer05	after 160h on full clockspeed you can expect 10 out of 1000 CPU going pooof	19:17
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DocScrutinizer05	for 900MHz OC	19:17
DocScrutinizer05	always assuming we have low order function in that formula, which most certainly we don't have	19:18
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Sicelo	jean_brat: looks like the answer is yes. maybe N900 is best though :-P	19:19
Sicelo	anyway	19:19
DocScrutinizer05	jean_brat: depends whom you ask	19:19
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thedead1440	jean_brat: read about it first then decide if you can tolerate its moodiness ;) and if you end up getting one don't limit yourself to 16GB as you get only ~9GB for emmc. Always get a 64GB variant...	19:21
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jean_brat	N900 : Micro USB is a unresolved problem, and i have my phone is just like a paperweight , some keys don't function , Wife other then WEP dont function etc etc	19:21
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Sicelo	please help me with getting, and understanding kernel logs on N900. i understand that i need to look in mtd2.	19:22
DocScrutinizer05	Sicelo: there's a tool for it	19:22
Sicelo	1) how do i do so?	19:22
Sicelo	2) how do i 'understand what is contains	19:23
kerio	they're not normal kernel logs though	19:23
kerio	they're the log of kernel oopses	19:23
Sicelo	it's those that i need.	19:23
jean_brat	thedead1440, so 16GB is not enough to dual boot Android ?	19:24
thedead1440	jean_brat: if you want the N9 for Android please get an Android device that's cheaper with higher specs	19:24
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DocScrutinizer05	Sicelo: http://maemo.org/packages/view/sp-oops-extract/	19:25
thedead1440	Nitdroid on the N9 can't make phone calls and has a whole lot of issues; really not worth using it other than the occasional game	19:25
thedead1440	oh and maybe you want to discuss the n9 on #harmattan or #n9	19:25
Sicelo	thanx DocScrutinizer05	19:26
DocScrutinizer05	yw	19:26
DocScrutinizer05	doesn't decode much but helps with readout	19:26
DocScrutinizer05	google for kernel-oops or kernelpanic to get more help how to parste and iterprete that gibbersih ;-)	19:27
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XATRIX	Guys, GPIO what is it for ?	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	General Purpose Input/Output	19:30
XATRIX	:)	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	chip pins	19:30
XATRIX	It checks for open close hatch ?	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	~gpio	19:31
DocScrutinizer05	~wtf gpio	19:31
infobot	Gee... I don't know what gpio means...	19:31
DocScrutinizer05	~wiki gpio	19:31
jean_brat	GPIO usually used for External interrupts for the SOC,	19:31
infobot	At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPIO (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{unreferenced\|date=December 2009}} 'General Purpose Input/Output' ('GPIO') is a generic pin on a chip whose behavior (including whether it is an input or output pin) can be controlled (programmed) by the user at run time. GPIO pins have no special purpose defined, and go unused by default. The idea is that sometimes the system integrator building a full system that uses the chip might ...	19:31
XATRIX	Ok, then it useless on N900	19:32
DocScrutinizer05	depends	19:33
jean_brat	i think Keypad in n900 is via GPIO interface ?	19:34
DocScrutinizer05	generally speaking the GPIO are indispensible part of N900's hw design	19:34
DocScrutinizer05	err, nope	19:34
DocScrutinizer05	it's a deficated matrix scanner implemented in hw in twl4030	19:34
XATRIX	matrix ?	19:34
DocScrutinizer05	dedicated*	19:34
XATRIX	What do you mean ?	19:35
DocScrutinizer05	~wiki matrix	19:35
infobot	At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix (URL), Wikipedia explains: " 'Matrix' may refer to: * Matrix (biology), the material or tissue between cells in which more specialized structures are embedded * Matrix (chemical analysis), the non-analyte components of a sample * Matrix (geology), the fine-grained material in which larger objects are embedded * Matrix (mathematics), a rectangular array of numbers, symbols or expressions * Matrix isolation, an ...	19:35
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DocScrutinizer05	I mean the keyboard matrix, consisting of rows and colums	19:36
XATRIX	ah	19:36
XATRIX	but what does it have to scan ?	19:36
DocScrutinizer05	keys	19:37
XATRIX	via GPIO ?	19:37
XATRIX	one wire bus ?	19:37
DocScrutinizer05	not via GPIO	19:37
DocScrutinizer05	but via specialized pins that are built for scanning a kbd matrix	19:37
XATRIX	hm	19:38
jean_brat	just a question of the topic.. usually nokia / Omap phones have brilliant sound Quality compared to any other makes, N900 n97 etc.. is it purely an OMAP credit or any other dependent factors ?	19:38
DocScrutinizer05	ac32/34 bla codec, dedicated audio chip	19:39
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* XATRIX removing Amazon installer & AP News installer		19:39
jean_brat	is it TI? DocScrutinizer05	19:39
DocScrutinizer05	not sure	19:39
DocScrutinizer05	check the datasheet ;-)	19:39
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DocScrutinizer05	tlv320aic34.pdf	19:40
DocScrutinizer05	seems it is TI	19:41
jean_brat	got a link?	19:41
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DocScrutinizer05	www.ti.com/product/tlv320aic34	19:42
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DocScrutinizer05	or check the hidden docs dir on maemo.cloud-7.de	19:45
DocScrutinizer05	and don't paste the url once you figured it, or I will have to rename it ;-)	19:45
XATRIX	FreOffice supports tables ?	19:51
jean_brat	DocScrutinizer05, i don have permission	19:51
DocScrutinizer05	jean_brat: you have, on hidden docs	19:51
jean_brat	You don't have permission to access /hidden/ on this server.	19:54
jean_brat	never mind	19:55
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DocScrutinizer05	hidden/docs/	19:59
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bef0rd	hi ZogG_laptop	20:57
bef0rd	can I borrow your ar drone?	20:57
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bef0rd	;_;	20:59
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Sc0rpius	~mirrors	21:26
infobot	[mirror] http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error	21:26
n900-dk_	Someone who has a short script for rsync backup of / and /home ?	21:30
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sardini	hello	21:30
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Sicelo	n900-dk_: ..	22:08
Sicelo	~jr-tools	22:09
infobot	hmm... jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	22:09
n900-dk_	Sicelo: thx, figured it out - wanted to do it initiated from the n900	22:11
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sombragris	hi there...	23:51
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sombragris	still cannot browse repos	23:51
sombragris	or go through package overviews over page 40 :S	23:51
DocScrutinizer05	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1326918#post1326918	23:52
DocScrutinizer05	the heck!!	23:52
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Sc0rpius	I know you're gonna hate me on this but I have to ask	23:54
Sc0rpius	why after like 3 months we don't have repos @ maemo.org and why do we have to use mirrors and why we don't have autobuilder?	23:54
Sc0rpius	if the community process failed then say "IT FAILED" and we go and buy another phone and that's it	23:55
M4rtinK	DocScrutinizer05: this trend is quite unfortunate	23:55
DocScrutinizer05	the euphemism of the year :-S	23:55
M4rtinK	DocScrutinizer05: is that HiFo stuff really THAT time intensive ?	23:55
DocScrutinizer05	nfc	23:55
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Sc0rpius	let's be clear: if a phone can't be supported by the manufacturer and/or the community it is a useless phone.	23:56
DocScrutinizer05	I know how time consuming my admin-coordinator and councilor job is	23:56
M4rtinK	I guess the Board/Council split really wasn't the best idea	23:56
DocScrutinizer05	I can tell you I couldn't do a partime real job besides it	23:56
M4rtinK	do you think it should improve once things settle a bit ?	23:57
DocScrutinizer05	Sc0rpius: we have a pretty functioning repo.m.o	23:57
M4rtinK	or a long term full-time job is needed to maintain the whole bunch of stuff ?	23:57
DocScrutinizer05	Sc0rpius: we do NOT need mirrors, usually	23:57
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M4rtinK	once the hashes are recomputed	23:58
DocScrutinizer05	Sc0rpius: autobulder is x-fade's domain but we just 4h ago shanghaied jacekowski for maintainer	23:58
sombragris	DocScrutinizer05 : I just canot browse http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle as of now	23:58
M4rtinK	and someone hunts down X-Fade, everythinkg should be A-OK :)	23:58
Sc0rpius	well I don't think the repos are up	23:58
Sc0rpius	I mean the @maemo.org repos	23:58
M4rtinK	DocScrutinizer05: autobuilder maintainer ?	23:59
DocScrutinizer05	sombragris: please send it again tomorrow, or send a mail to joerg <council@m.o>	23:59
DocScrutinizer05	yes	23:59
M4rtinK	DocScrutinizer05: nice ! :)	23:59
Sc0rpius	my phone still say Failed catalogs: maemo.org, Maemo Extras-Testing, maemo devel	23:59
M4rtinK	I'm really looking forward to it working again :)	23:59
DocScrutinizer05	indeed, and as usual he's an animal ;-D	23:59

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