IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2013-02-16

cehtehhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TLEVo1cEjQ  .. crazy americans :P00:00
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DocScrutinizer05this one guy nuked away half his balcony with an exploding 1865000:00
cehtehwell i decided that ammo boxes and charging on the balcony (at least when the weather becomes better) makse some sense00:01
cehtehheh00:01
kerioin other news, my laptop's battery is 50 cycles away from 200000:01
cehtehwell and this ammo boxes are very tight sealing .. i need to removed the seals or leave it open when charging at least00:02
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juozapashi00:02
juozapaswhere i can find voice files for omvoice server ?00:03
jacekowskii've had a fun with fire extinguisher i had one boxed in my car00:03
jacekowskiand when it came to using it took me a good while to take it out of the box00:03
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cehtehhuh 18650 are small compared to the cells i have here .. 4S (14.4V) x 5000mAh ... over 500g each00:04
DocScrutinizer05cehteh: round or square?00:05
cehtehsquare00:06
cehtehlipo .. stack of 4 cells00:06
DocScrutinizer05usually only the cylindrical cels are really nasty grenades00:06
cehtehyes00:06
cehtehbut the flat ones blow and make a lot mess and if it ignites it a big flame00:06
kerioEstel_: btw, how are the plans for the n900 with the two 18650s going?00:06
DocScrutinizer05square ones can expand and deform00:06
DocScrutinizer05and leak easily when doing so00:07
cehtehthe round ones are liion in most cases00:07
cehtehyes00:07
kerioDocScrutinizer05: but as they expand, they become more cylindrical00:07
kerioand then they can explode!00:07
cehtehrc batteries are quite raw, no protection and stuff00:07
keriocehteh: why? you'd think that considering the space, you could have protective circuits00:08
DocScrutinizer05yep, still they won't build up pressure like cyl ones00:08
cehtehkerio: price, weight, power00:08
cehtehyou can draw serveral hundreds Amperes from those00:08
DocScrutinizer05rc batteries are built for crazy discharge rates00:08
keriooh, so the circuit would have to be really big00:09
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cehtehin my case i use the low speced ones 25C only ... 5A*25 ... 125A already .. but there are cells with 65C available00:09
cehtehand 8000mAh00:09
cehtehusually you have a more complex charger and in the RC model you have some monitoring and do rather flat cycling00:10
DocScrutinizer05simple answer: you want only one mosfet between cell and motor, not two ore even more00:11
cehtehbalancing charger .. this batteries have a 2nd connector with each single cell level coming out for monitoring and equalizing the charge levels00:11
DocScrutinizer05and that mosfet is a monster00:11
cehtehusually few of them in parallel00:11
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DocScrutinizer05:nod:00:12
cehtehhavent counted but there are prolly a dozen fets on the speed controlers00:12
DocScrutinizer05nice of mosfet that you can parallel them thus simply00:12
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DocScrutinizer05the have pretty convenient characteristics for that00:13
cehtehhttp://0x.ca/sim/esc/Mystery_40A/img_4549.jpg00:13
DocScrutinizer05hehe00:13
DocScrutinizer05dang, that's a 3-phase controller00:14
cehtehsure, brushless motors, electronically commutated00:15
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DocScrutinizer05those are cool beasts00:16
DocScrutinizer05go like hell00:16
cehtehstandard meanwhile00:16
cehtehwith hackable firmware :)00:16
kerioooh, apparently my laptop uses a bq20z95100:20
ShadowJKI disassembled a dead laptop battery, and it had a bq-something :-)00:20
keriothat sounds familiar :D00:21
eccerr0rnots sure why my n900 takes so long to charge, can't imagine a dual 18650 2.8AH cell... or two in parallel...00:30
ShadowJK2 hours on fresh battery, 4 hours on worn battery00:32
ShadowJKprobably 4 hours on fresh single 2.8Ah00:32
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cehtehmy charging is just way off ... it takes hours over hours on 'almost full'  .. and when i disconnect it when fully charged and plug it in few minutes later i'll charge for hours again00:33
* cehteh just blames nokia and lets it be as it is00:33
cehtehbattery still works fine00:33
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topro_is there a way to get qtmobility support in qt sdk for target maemo 5 (n900)?00:43
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eccerr0rso it is true it takes longer to charge an old battery?  thought a cc charger would hit finish voltage sooner on a worn cell?00:44
DocScrutinizer05cehteh: blame your screen on while charging00:45
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DocScrutinizer05eccerr0r: we got CCCV charger though00:46
DocScrutinizer05eccerr0r: with a charge-end current threshold of like 100mA or sth00:46
DocScrutinizer05of which an enabled screen backlight already eats up to 20000:47
eccerr0ryes i've noticed that too, any foreground use slows down charge.... to the extent some computer usb ports won't charge/still discharge when the n900 is being used00:47
DocScrutinizer05so... never trips threshold for end-of-charge detection when screen is lit00:47
DocScrutinizer05yeah, that's because of battery is parallel to system power-in00:49
DocScrutinizer05or rather, this special effect is to limited power via USB, which will get split between system and charging, no matter what circuit config00:49
DocScrutinizer05is *due* to...00:50
eccerr0rwhat I don't get is why I can't seem to get it to draw the full 500mA on microusb00:50
DocScrutinizer05charge-end detection (or the lack of such) however is becuase charger suplies power for battery and system in parallel00:51
DocScrutinizer05hmm, it usually should do that00:51
DocScrutinizer05what makes you think it draws less than 500, and how much less?00:51
eccerr0rif I bump the voltage I can get it to draw more current... but a constant voltage smps should decrease current when voltage goes up00:52
DocScrutinizer05yes00:52
eccerr0ri've got it hooked up to a bench psu with voltage/current meters00:53
DocScrutinizer05I however wonder how you bump the voltage of a PC USB port00:53
eccerr0rbehavior is NOT what I expect. ..00:53
DocScrutinizer05the bq24150 is not a virtual ideal component00:54
eccerr0ryeah for a pc port it'd be hard but not for a test jig :)00:54
DocScrutinizer05a test jig may fail on USB enum00:54
DocScrutinizer05which is mandatory to draw more than 100mA from USB without D+- short fastcharger signalling00:55
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eccerr0r(same jig that I killed the charging circuit on my 5230...)00:55
eccerr0rI shorted the d pins together.00:55
DocScrutinizer05then it should take way more than 500mA00:56
eccerr0rit's not...00:56
DocScrutinizer05if CCCV plus system usage allows for that00:56
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DocScrutinizer05you should use bq27200.sh or...00:57
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DocScrutinizer05~bq27k-detail00:57
infobotrumour has it, bq27k-detail is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail200:57
DocScrutinizer05it gives an idea if cell is still in CC or already in CV segment00:57
DocScrutinizer05by merely looking at current-now and voltage-now00:58
DocScrutinizer05the transit from CC to CV is not ideal though, there's a zone of mixed characteristics where both apply00:58
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DocScrutinizer05again, since bq24150 is a cheap real silicon component, not something ideal virtual00:59
DocScrutinizer05it's just "good enough2 for charging LiIon01:00
DocScrutinizer05s/2/"/01:00
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: it's just "good enough" for charging LiIon01:00
ds3DocSCrutinizer05: what do you consider wrong with that chip?01:00
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DocScrutinizer05nothing wrong with it, it's just not something mathematical01:02
DocScrutinizer05but real hardware01:02
ds3mathematical?01:02
DocScrutinizer05ideal01:02
ds3hmmm ok... still not sure in what aspects01:03
DocScrutinizer05like a diode with 0.0000V Vforward, infinite Vreverse01:03
ds3oh01:03
ds3got a specific example on that chip?01:03
DocScrutinizer05it has no sharp switching from CC to CV, both blend into each other01:03
ds3ah... okay. that i understand01:04
DocScrutinizer05on CV it doesn't have 0 Ohms source impedance01:04
DocScrutinizer05on CC it has dependencies on cell voltage as well01:04
DocScrutinizer05so neither voltage (in CV) nor current (in CC) are really constant01:05
DocScrutinizer05and particularly not in the zone  between CC and CV01:05
DocScrutinizer05the watchdog timer specified as 32s might actually be as short as 15s01:07
DocScrutinizer05iirc01:07
DocScrutinizer05it's all just good enough to do the job it's built for01:07
DocScrutinizer05and that job means "5V USB"01:08
DocScrutinizer05not "3-9V USB"01:08
DocScrutinizer05so no surprise eccerr0r found it drawing more current when he increases Vusb01:09
DocScrutinizer05chip isn't built to handle that01:09
eccerr0ri just wish it could draw the full 500mA @ 5V,  maybe it'd do 500mA at 9V01:09
DocScrutinizer05it can draw way more than 500mA at 5V01:10
DocScrutinizer05evidently01:10
eccerr0ri've never seen it do so01:10
DocScrutinizer05I did01:11
eccerr0rwhat did you use to measure/what source?01:11
DocScrutinizer05simple math and bq27200.sh to read out charge current of battery01:12
DocScrutinizer05plus some knowledge of system power consumption, also derived from previous bq27200.sh runs01:14
eccerr0rneed orthogonal measurement... I cant trust bq24150.01:14
DocScrutinizer05when I see battery getting charged at 800mA (3.3V) and I know screen backlight uses e.g. 200mA at 4.1V, then the match is simple to calculate how much the USB is currently delivering minimum (even on a neglected converter efficiency that's not 1 either)01:16
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* kerio has seen 900mA, measured by bq27k01:18
eccerr0ralso something weird:I don't see a current swing when locking the device... which corresponds to why having the screen on slows charging...01:18
keriofastcharger, battery almost empty01:18
DocScrutinizer05but charging current for battery is limited to 850mA iirc01:18
kerioDocScrutinizer05: not 1A?01:19
DocScrutinizer05bme sets it to 850 iirc01:20
eccerr0rall of this experimentation is just to build a fast charger... the d+- short wasn't enough01:20
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DocScrutinizer05well, see my last 2 lines01:20
DocScrutinizer05usually you can't charge batter with more than 0.7C01:22
keriowhat does the nokia wallcharger do? constant 5V?01:22
eccerr0rI'd be happy to see 850mA01:22
DocScrutinizer05and that's not even taking into account the system power which gets subtracted from that01:22
eccerr0rIt's nowhere close...01:22
DocScrutinizer05kerio: sure01:23
keriothe battery charges at around 500 from around the midpoint onwards01:23
kerioso deal with it01:23
kerioyou only get the truly fast charge at the beginning, when it's almost empty01:23
DocScrutinizer05it will charge with 800 or more only while <3.6V01:23
DocScrutinizer05yes, exactly01:24
eccerr0rok... that may be the fact needed.01:24
DocScrutinizer05and no matter what you do, LiIon takes its time to charge to 100%01:24
eccerr0ri'll discharge a battery down to 3.4 and see if it behaves different...01:25
DocScrutinizer05the faster (higher current) you charge it initially, the longer it will take for the CV segment01:25
kerioalso, don't push more than 5V through the usb01:25
kerioit's not really meant to do that :s01:25
DocScrutinizer05which largely kills any benefit of "fast charging"01:25
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DocScrutinizer05use nokia fastcharger and switch off all powerhogs in system, to get fastest possible 'normal' charging which will need ~3h to from empty to battery almost full. Use ShadowJK's charge21.sh (with edited CC parameter) to charge battery with 1C instead 0.7C, though that's not recommended since it wears out battery quite fast01:29
DocScrutinizer05nothing you could do to USB-charger will change that01:30
eccerr0rhmm... honestly you guys are confusing me more, there are definitely some facts that mesh with what I know but others seem to clash... then again I'm coming from a completely-hardware aspect...01:30
cehtehDocScrutinizer05: when idle, no screen on, LED blinking01:31
DocScrutinizer05ideal charger delivers constant 5.25V @1.5+A and has D+- short01:31
eccerr0rbut that is also true, fast charging wears batteries faster.01:31
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eccerr0rthe BL5J is 4.9WH.  At 5V1A it should take about 1 hour at constant power to charge, if it were possible.01:32
kerioyou'd wreck it01:33
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eccerr0rit is technically "possible" of course but that is true, you cant charge the last bit at constant power...01:34
eccerr0rI guess I need to see that the thing will eat 800mA while charging a flat battery, if this is true, then this will all make sense.01:36
eccerr0rand wonderful, t-mobile disappeared, not getting GSM coverage right now...01:38
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MohammadAGmeh, $25 for publishing to Google Play01:54
merlin1991of what?01:55
MohammadAGapps :P01:55
DocScrutinizer05meh01:57
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deepykerio: I think I need to sell my N90002:23
deepyI just won another phone02:23
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SpeedEvil:-\02:35
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SpeedEvilwhat?02:35
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deepySpeedEvil: I got a N900 to replace my Nexus One02:52
deepyand then I won a phone02:52
deepyand now I've won another one02:52
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merlin1991deepy: haxx0r03:51
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Estel_ShadowJK,  thanks a lot04:09
Estel_and gregoa for anotherr lightweight httpd04:10
Estel_btw, using wireshark, I've also noticed a simple way to start this certain game "rebuilt 2" outside embedded sites, without need for fake domain04:10
Estel_after some tweaks, it works great offline using N900 browser with cursor mode (100% fluent), so wee just got another complex game (rebuilt 2 is post-apocalyptic sim, quite complicated one, despite being, technically, flash game)04:12
Estel_now I just need to ask developer's permission, and I can package it with tweaks included, to non-free - if repos ever start working again without hash mismatch, that is04:12
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iluminator105is vlc in the repos07:30
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kerioi want steam on fremantle!10:34
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RaimuYou know your culture from your trash12:35
RaimuYou know your plastic from your cash12:35
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MohammadAGwow, my router's firmware is hardcoded to only accept Israeli upgrades14:16
MohammadAGand the original firmware is nowhere to be found14:16
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kerioMohammadAG: not even through tftp?14:18
juozapaswhere i can find voice files for omvoiceserver?14:18
MohammadAGkerio, not sure actually14:18
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MohammadAGkerio, I found some forum thread with someone having the same problem14:18
MohammadAGthey changed the header so the web UI accepted it14:19
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MohammadAGand the router died :)14:19
MohammadAGoh nice, busybox on the router doesn't have grep14:19
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kerioi'm *really* stumped :(15:07
kerioshould i just reflash?15:07
kerioi have so many customizations :(15:07
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yanahello! i just installed webos on my n900 but i cant understand how to download ipk files, from where and how to put the on my phone.... any suggestions? thanks in advance15:22
yanathem*15:22
AoyagiI uh... don't think WebOS question is very appropriate in #maemo. But maybe someone will know...15:23
yanai hope so ...15:25
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qwazixWebOS on the N900?16:15
AoyagiHe/she is gone.16:16
keriodeepy: why bother selling it16:16
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qwazixAoyagi I just saw that nobody was surprised and I thought wtf? is that so normal?16:18
AoyagiI was.16:18
AoyagiBut I try to not voice my opinions about things I know very little about.16:19
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qwazixI just wanted to know more about that. Technically it's possible to install webos on the N90016:19
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qwazixIn fact the Pre had pretty similar hardware.16:20
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keriomerlin1991: µ16:20
merlin1991hm?16:20
kerio~moo16:21
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass16:21
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kerio~µ16:28
kerio~literal µ16:28
kerioinfobot: you suck16:28
infobotand very well I might add16:28
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WizardNumberNexthey guys I need execute something every set number of seconds, including fractions (like 2.56s). any way to do so without sleep command? I need quite accurate timming, preferably up to 1ms, if possible17:22
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kerio"execute" how?17:24
kerioalso, afaik topro investigated this, and ended up figuring out that the kernel timers have a resolution of 50ms17:25
kerioyou'll have to use a soundcard timer17:25
topro_really interesting, we just had that topic ;)17:30
topro_WizardNumberNext: i couldn't get kernel based timers to run at higher res then 50ms17:30
topro_but my task was to detect peaks in an audio stream recoreded from mic. so I went with counting samples17:31
WizardNumberNexteven 50ms would do, 1s resolution of sleep is unacceptable17:31
WizardNumberNextI would execute it in script17:31
topro_ever heard of usleep() ?17:31
WizardNumberNextdo not really want to program17:32
keriomost likely, loading the binary and launching it will take more than 1ms17:32
topro_then I'm off, don't even know if there is a way to access timers in script. you would need a binary that does the job. is there something in gnu? don't now17:33
WizardNumberNextkerio, I expect everything takes time, so loading and executing (especially loading)17:33
WizardNumberNextthen only way would be to put work into kernel, as I want to access i2c17:34
WizardNumberNextbq27x0017:34
WizardNumberNextto be more precise - I want nice battery logger17:34
kerio...WHAT17:35
WizardNumberNextlike I had on N95 - Nokia energy profiler - something not exactly similar17:35
xesyou mean a battery burner..17:35
kerioi don't even know if bq27k updates once per second17:35
keriolet alone once every millisecond17:35
WizardNumberNextNokia Energy Profiler wasn't really battery burner - yes it was stilling some energy, but it wasn't bad17:35
WizardNumberNextkerio, no, not every ms - every 2.56s17:36
WizardNumberNextmore often is completely pointless17:36
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topro_I'd like to understand that 2.56s constraint17:37
WizardNumberNextI want to log every sample of average current, which happens to be updated every 2.56s17:37
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topro_come on, why not sample every 2 or every 3 seconds. the error will level out over time, don't you think so?17:37
WizardNumberNextI have been reading datasheet some time ago and decided that this would best approach to get some real usage17:37
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keriodo 5 seconds17:37
kerioso you'll have 120ms to do your processing :)17:38
WizardNumberNextthen, I am loosing every second sample - useless17:38
WizardNumberNextall processing needed is to save it to file (might be even in ram/tmpFS17:39
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ShadowJKWizardNumberNext; it's updated every 5.12s, approximately17:47
WizardNumberNextthere's some value considering current updated every 2.56s17:47
ShadowJKI would expect bq's oscillator isn't terribly accurate anyway17:48
ShadowJKrunning bq27200.sh in a 5s loop does redcue idle battery lifr by a factor of 5 or so :)17:49
xesWizardNumberNext: first of all try a "time yourscript.sh"...17:50
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ShadowJKah yes, -2.2% ... 1.5% stated accuracy.. so that ends up as 5.01 - 5.20s update interval, if accessing the chip doesn't postpone it updating :)17:52
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kerioShadowJK: well, it could be your script's fault :P17:58
ShadowJKI suspect a "while true; do sleep 5; done" has similar impact on battery life :)17:59
keriowell, bq27200.sh does a lot of calculations in shellscript18:00
kerioand a lot of requests with i2cget18:00
ShadowJKya18:01
ShadowJKbut wakeups do more for power use really18:01
WizardNumberNextrigth - I have seen all of it. I have my own script which is reading sysfs file and it have quite a latency18:01
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: use bq27k-detail, it only has one i2cdump command instead of lots of i2cget18:11
DocScrutinizer05thus it should be considerably more lightweight regarding that18:11
kerioDocScrutinizer05: hm, i wonder if it could be made to use bq27x00_battery18:12
DocScrutinizer05it should almost work OOTB, since that's basically what it does on Openmoko18:13
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: hm, what's the path to that script, in your site?18:13
DocScrutinizer05so if the developer of bq27x00_battery followed my advice, there shall be a similar sysnode to dump raw bq27200 register content18:14
keriooh, maemo5/usr/local/sbin18:14
DocScrutinizer05~bq27k-detail18:14
kerioDocScrutinizer05: there is!18:14
infobotbq27k-detail is probably http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail218:14
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: http://0paste.com/264 this is the content of the registers file18:17
DocScrutinizer05AYAYAYAYAYAY18:18
DocScrutinizer05waaaay too much "wisdom" in that one18:18
DocScrutinizer05why are some 16bit values while others are 8bit?18:19
kerioah balls, rmmodding bq27k caused hald-addon-bme to shut down my phone18:20
DocScrutinizer05that's not raw, that's obfuscated interpreted semantic of the chip18:20
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kerioPali: why are some values 16bit and other values 8bit?18:20
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Paliwhere?18:20
keriobq27200-0/registers18:21
Palibecause some are 16bit and some are 818:21
Palisee bq datasheet18:21
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Palikerio, hald-addon-bme shut down device?18:22
DocScrutinizer05no, I2C has no 16bit registers18:22
kerioPali: i assume so18:22
DocScrutinizer05at least not on this chip18:22
DocScrutinizer05raw dump is not meant to interprete semantics of chip18:22
Palikerio, kernel oops or dsme reboot?18:22
kerioPali: shutdown18:23
kerioi turned it back on with the power key18:23
Palishutdown? not reboot?18:23
topro_is there a way to get qtmobility support for qt sdk maemo toolchain?18:23
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kerioand no oopsies18:23
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kerioPali: yeah18:23
Paliseems like "battery too low" and EDV1 flag18:24
Paliand if not there is bug...18:24
Palior temperature?18:24
kerioPali: well, hal returns 0 if there's no matching device right?18:24
kerioPali: idk, i always rmmod rx51_battery18:24
Palifor which "returns 0"?18:25
keriothe function to get a value from hal18:26
Paliyes18:26
kerioDocScrutinizer05: fwiw it's not supposed to be a raw i2c dump18:26
kerioit's supposed to be the file containing the registers of the chip18:26
DocScrutinizer05I honestly suggest a format similar to result of `i2cdump -y 2 0x55 b|tail -n +2|cut -d ' ' -f 2-17`18:27
DocScrutinizer05kerio: the registers of that chip are all 8bit18:27
Palibut some values are 2bytes18:28
DocScrutinizer05as you can tell from address on left side18:28
DocScrutinizer05Pali: that is irrelevant for a dump18:28
DocScrutinizer05it's wisdom about chip semantics that is misplaced in a dump18:29
Palithat sysfs file in kernel driver was for shell scripting instead calling i2cget18:29
kerioPali: fwiw, if you're merging 2-byte registers, then you should also split bitfields18:29
DocScrutinizer05it's the software using the dump content that's supposed to make assumptions about such properties as pairing of some of the registers18:30
kerioDocScrutinizer05: not if you're converting something that used i2cget to get a 2-bytes value18:30
Palibtw, proper kernel interface for that is regmap18:30
DocScrutinizer05kerio: exactly18:30
Paliand I'm not going to change it in bq27x00 battery driver18:30
DocScrutinizer05(for bitfields)18:30
kerioPali: what's that? like a conventional way to present registers?18:31
DocScrutinizer05kerio: "eh??" for the remark about i2cget18:31
Palisomething like that18:31
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i2cget has a way to get a word instead of a byte18:31
Paliinterface for accessing some kind of registers18:31
DocScrutinizer05kerio: so what?18:32
DocScrutinizer05kerio: only if YOU tell it so18:32
DocScrutinizer05so it's YOU who has the knowledge, NOT i2cget or even the chip itself18:32
Paliregisters file in bq27x00_battery kernel driver is for bq27x00 chip18:32
kerioi think the point was that you'd "always" use that to get the appropriate value18:32
Paliso output from that file is correct18:33
DocScrutinizer05no, it's garbled18:33
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DocScrutinizer05it introduces sematnics where there shouldn't be any18:33
DocScrutinizer05a dump is a dump is a dump18:34
kerioit's not called "dump", it's called "registers"18:34
DocScrutinizer05a dump has no idea about register pairing18:34
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DocScrutinizer05a dump sysnode is supposed to have a uniform format that allows access to registers WITHOUT knowing about their properties18:35
DocScrutinizer05IOW it should be identical for all chips, no matter what register pairing or other properties those registers have18:36
DocScrutinizer05If I were interested in highly sophisticated interpretation of the registers' *meanings*, I'd not use the dump sysnode but the named sysnodes which are supposed to do *all* interpreting for me18:38
DocScrutinizer05dump is meant to do *no* interpreting for me18:39
DocScrutinizer05see kerio's remark about bitfields18:39
DocScrutinizer05just adding a random subset of semantic interpretation to dump sysnode renders it garbled and basically useless18:40
DocScrutinizer05how the fsck am I supposed to know quite basic things like e.g. if the paired register is big-endian or little-endian and if that garbled dump already swapped registers for me or not?18:41
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DocScrutinizer05please fix that, it's a bug18:42
DocScrutinizer05kerio: it doesn't matter if it's called dump or registers. Registers also are all 8bit in this chip. Actually I2C has no means to access 16bit registers, they are handled as a pair of 8bit registers and it needs prior knowledge to tell those apart form plain 8bit registers. I2C or chip doesn't provide any flag signalling the paired property of some of the registers, you need datasheet to learn about it18:47
kerioDocScrutinizer05: otoh, bq27x00_battery does indeed "have" the datasheet18:47
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DocScrutinizer05and info from datasheet has no room in either dump or register sysnodes18:47
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DocScrutinizer05it's like if `wc -c` would count UTF16 as one byte18:49
kerioyou mean wc -m18:50
kerio:)18:50
DocScrutinizer05no, I mean -c18:50
keriowc -m does indeed count the characters, according to your locale18:50
DocScrutinizer05-m is what you get on sysnodes like capacity and current and temperature18:51
DocScrutinizer05let me put it as simple as possible: that sysnode is called "registers", that chip has no 16bit registers18:52
DocScrutinizer05ETX18:52
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DocScrutinizer05you're aware that "registers" sysnode is meant to be r/w? you're also aware that there might be (and actually are) situations where you don't want to write 16bit to a paired set of registers in unknown sequence and timing?18:56
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: RST18:56
kerioyou can't TX after ETX dude18:56
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DocScrutinizer05shall I SYNC and retransmit?18:59
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eccerr0rhmm... is the n900 port of pidgin source archived on maemo.org, or is it integrated into the main distribution?19:03
eccerr0rneed to see if I can get it to stop pinging the servers every 30 seconds...that will kill the battery :P19:03
DocScrutinizer05~pkgs19:04
DocScrutinizer05~pkg19:04
infobotmethinks pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/19:04
DocScrutinizer05~#maemo pkgs is <reply>see #maemo pkg19:04
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0519:04
DocScrutinizer05~pkgs19:04
infoboti heard #maemo pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/19:04
eccerr0rnot sure how debian works, is the code actually rebuilt automatically once in a while?19:05
eccerr0ron the repository that is (if it's OSS)?19:06
DocScrutinizer05errr, it is when you upload to drop aka autobuilder19:06
DocScrutinizer05I don't think it's usually ever rebuilt later on without any trigger19:06
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DocScrutinizer05since, what would change?19:07
eccerr0rOk... wonderring if it's easier to get the maintainer to stop it from pinging, I see it dropping an ssl packet every 30 seconds19:07
eccerr0rthat seems excessive...19:07
kerioeccerr0r: make your own package19:07
DocScrutinizer05locally19:08
eccerr0rhence finding the code :D19:08
kerioor try to look for a way to increase the keepalive frequency19:08
DocScrutinizer05period19:08
DocScrutinizer05lower frequency19:08
kerioer, yes19:08
kerioi'm sorry, mr engineer :(19:08
eccerr0rI just don't know if the maemo patches made it into the main distribution19:08
* DocScrutinizer05 suggests gconftool and hexedit19:08
kerioeccerr0r: just use the same source that's in maemo extras19:09
DocScrutinizer05eccerr0r: most probably they didn't19:09
keriolike, apt-source pidgin or whatever19:09
eccerr0rOk, yeah that's what I was hoping...19:09
keriono, apt-get source19:09
kerioafter you've enabled a source repo19:09
eccerr0ragain this is still very new to me... in Gentoo I get the source only so it's easy to find the code :)19:09
kerioor just download tarball, dsc and patches19:09
kerioeccerr0r: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/p/pidgin/pidgin_2.10.6+nix-1.tar.gz19:10
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DocScrutinizer05+nix???19:10
DocScrutinizer05wtf is that?19:11
eccerr0rah cool...19:11
DocScrutinizer05or simply follow the links on ~pkgs19:11
eccerr0rneed to get vbox set up next.19:11
keriounpack that tarball in your scratchbox, do your modifications, dch -i and increase the version by adding a +eccerr0r1 suffix, dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot19:11
kerioand it'll give you a tarball19:11
kerioer19:11
kerioa .deb19:11
kerioDocScrutinizer05: nix is apparently the maintainer19:12
DocScrutinizer05duh19:12
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kerioit's still wtf19:12
topro_sorry for asking again, but I wonder why no one reacted to this as i think that would bot only be interesting to me: is there a way to get qtmobility support for qt sdk maemo toolchain?19:12
keriotopro_: idk, i have qtmobility installed i think19:12
* DocScrutinizer05 looks at (duck and cover!) http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=name&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=pidgin&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bproperty%5D=title&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bvalue%5D=same and BURPs19:13
kerio?19:13
topro_kerio: is there a howto, ressource, doc?19:13
keriotopro_: hm, they should be in the sdk already19:14
keriocssu ships some bugfixes i think19:14
* kerio laughs at version 1:1.0.2-maemo4+0m5+0cssu1+thumb219:14
keriowhat the fucking fuck, really19:14
topro_kerio: my maemo on n900 has it, but its missing from qt sdk maemo target toolchain19:15
keriotopro_: i can't grasp how scratchbox works, sorry19:15
kerio:s19:15
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kerioask freemangordon maybe19:15
DocScrutinizer05what's "qt sdk maemo target toolchain"?19:15
DocScrutinizer05we usually have scratchbox (and some say madde too)19:16
topro_DocScrutinizer05: using qt sdk updater I installed maemo target.19:16
DocScrutinizer05not supposed to work afaik19:16
topro_its missing qtmobility, obviously. so i installed madde as stated somewher on tmo, which has no qtmobility either19:17
DocScrutinizer05madde isn't really well supported19:17
DocScrutinizer05it should be possible to install qtm in it though, I think19:18
DocScrutinizer05not that I really had a clue about madde19:18
topro_i found some references stating that the only way to build qtmobility applications for maemo atm is to use scratchbox, which doesn'T integrate into qt-creator19:18
DocScrutinizer05sounds about right19:18
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topro_got disconnected19:22
ccxCZuh, I installed xev, but I don't get any keyboard events at all19:22
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topro_[18:18:25] <topro_> i found some references stating that the only way to build qtmobility applications for maemo atm is to use scratchbox, which doesn'T integrate into qt-creator19:23
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topro_so I'm looking for a way to bild qtmobility-aware apps using qt-sdk19:24
topro_s/bild/build/19:24
infobottopro_ meant: so I'm looking for a way to build qtmobility-aware apps using qt-sdk19:24
topro_it works when compiling for targets simulator and harmattan, but not for maemo19:26
topro_as maemo toolchain is missing qtmobility support19:26
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tzafrir_n900apt-get update fails due to expired keys. where can I find up-to-date ones20:16
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sixwheeledbeast1tzafrir_n900: expired keys should be a warning.20:29
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DocScrutinizer05topro: sounds about right20:53
DocScrutinizer05topro: [2013-02-16 18:18:44] <DocScrutinizer05> sounds about right20:53
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys expired20:55
infobotFactoid search of 'expired' by key returned no results.20:55
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DocScrutinizer05~#maemo expired-key is <reply>apt-get update soits out Warnings about Nokia GPG key expired, it's not an Error that should break anything. Ignore it20:56
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay20:56
DocScrutinizer05~#maemo ek is <reply>see expired-key20:56
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay20:56
DocScrutinizer05~ek20:57
infobotapt-get update soits out Warnings about Nokia GPG key expired, it's not an Error that should break anything. Ignore it20:57
DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, #maemo expired-key is <reply>apt-get update spits out Warnings about Nokia GPG key expired, it's not an Error that should break anything. Ignore it20:57
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay20:57
DocScrutinizer05~ek20:57
infobotapt-get update spits out Warnings about Nokia GPG key expired, it's not an Error that should break anything. Ignore it20:57
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys gpg20:58
infobotFactoid search of 'gpg' by key (6): gpg sign multiple files ;; .gnugpg/options ;; gpg ;; agpgart ;; gpg upload ;; pgpgpg.20:58
DocScrutinizer05~gpg20:58
infobotrumour has it, gpg is the GNU Privacy Guard, a free public-key encryption program available from nonUS.debian.org . or http://www.gnupg.org, but apt-get install gnupg20:58
DocScrutinizer05[notice] lists.maemo.org rebooted20:59
DocScrutinizer05something seriously fishy with all that stuff on our xen-grid21:00
PaliDocScrutinizer05, now https://lists.maemo.org/ not working21:12
PaliNot Found The requested URL / was not found on this server.21:12
DocScrutinizer05Pali: sorry, CND. http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020830.html WFM21:13
Palihm, that working21:14
Palibut this not, try $ wget lists.maemo.org21:14
DocScrutinizer05https://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020830.html works too21:14
DocScrutinizer05after nodding off the borked-cert warning21:14
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I'm not interested in wget of this page21:16
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DocScrutinizer05if you found a bug, please analyze and report to bmo21:16
sobukusHi, folks. Dies someone have a hint on how to circumvent https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11384 ?21:17
povbotBug 11384: Diablo extras & extras devel badly signed with Fremantle repository key21:17
sobukuscan I tell apt-get to just ignore the signature?21:17
DocScrutinizer05~ek21:17
infobotapt-get update spits out Warnings about Nokia GPG key expired, it's not an Error that should break anything. Ignore it21:17
sobukusThis is not it. It's about a bad signature on the Maemo Extras repo.21:18
sobukusThe bug report describes my experience: Apt refuses to work with the extras repo because of bad sig.21:19
DocScrutinizer05please file a ticket21:19
* sobukus notes that this is an N800 with diablo21:19
DocScrutinizer05ooh you did21:19
DocScrutinizer05ping merlin199121:19
sobukusDocScrutinizer05: no, the ticked is already there since years:-/21:19
DocScrutinizer05o.O21:19
merlin1991pong DocScrutinizer0521:20
DocScrutinizer05^^^21:20
merlin1991yeah that bug is OOOLD21:20
sobukusI guess this issue should be easy to fix ... just change some script to create the correct sig?21:20
DocScrutinizer05you know anything about that?21:20
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: impact, severity, fix?21:21
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: workaround?21:21
merlin1991impact apt goes foobar21:21
Palithat bug was funny :D:D21:21
merlin1991workaround tell apt to ignore keys21:22
merlin1991fix fix the friggin repo script21:22
Palifremantle cssu repo was signed by diablo key21:22
sobukus?21:22
Paliand diablo repo is signed with fremantle key :D21:22
sobukusI guess the real problem is not the signing key but having the wrong signature file.21:22
sobukusmerlin1991: I tried apt-get --allow-unauthenticated update    ... to no avail21:23
sobukusis there another way?21:23
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keriosobukus: APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated "yes";21:33
kerioin /etc/apt/apt.conf21:33
keriomerlin1991: just delete Release.gpg?21:34
sobukuskerio: that AllowUnauthenticated will only work after Release.gpg is deleted, right? because, as long as there is a sig, it is not unauthenticated and apt still complains (it looks like that to me)21:38
DocScrutinizer05sounds correct. I suggest renaming instead of deleting though21:41
kerioyes, yes21:41
kerioRelease.gpg.bak21:41
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sardinihello trusted.gpg ou trustdb.gpg21:44
sardiniin /etc/apt/ ?21:44
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keriosobukus: if the bug comments are correct, you don't even need to explicitly ignore the authentication21:47
keriobecause diablo repos aren't supposed to be signed anyway21:47
sobukusWell, this one is; but I admit I am confused. apt-get update is not very clear on the success of the operation21:48
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sobukusbut since I was able to install usbcontrol, I presume I have the extras repo working?21:49
sobukusWhat I really was after was either diffutils or an updated busybox; is that available in the maemo repos for diablo?21:49
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* sobukus notes he didn't have extras-devel, only devel21:57
sobukusnow I see busybox-power!21:57
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DocScrutinizer05~pkg22:28
infobothmm... pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/22:28
DocScrutinizer05sardini: sorry?22:29
sardiniI have same issue with maemo. on apt-ge update with skeiron.org repository gpg error and bzip2 error code 122:31
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DocScrutinizer05~ek22:37
infobotapt-get update spits out Warnings about Nokia GPG key expired, it's not an Error that should break anything. Ignore it22:37
sardiniyes I see you repeat 4x this, :) sorry22:37
DocScrutinizer05bzip2 error iirc is related to busybox-power, do you have this installed?22:38
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sardinihow to know if busybox is installed?22:38
DocScrutinizer05if you installed busybox-power, you done it on purpose22:38
sardinibusybox-power is already the newest version22:39
DocScrutinizer05dpkg -s busybox-power22:42
DocScrutinizer05if that shows you installed busybox-power, then I suppose your bzip2 problem is caused by that22:42
keriosardini: which skeiron repository?22:43
sardiniI must remove busybox ?22:43
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DocScrutinizer05no, it's about busybox-power, not about busybox22:44
DocScrutinizer05and I doubt removing busybox-power will help22:44
keriobusybox-power uninstalls very cleanly22:44
DocScrutinizer05not my call, I won't touch it ever22:44
sardinikerio, from first post here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?s=dc0666b43c4824cb010f17e370f12d13&t=8870722:45
keriosardini: yeah, but which one? extras? extras-devel?22:45
sardinikerio, all22:46
DocScrutinizer05sardini: you also installed CSSU?22:46
sardinidocScrutinizer  yes a long time ago22:46
sardiniDocScrutinizer05,   yes a long time ago22:46
kerioDocScrutinizer05: decompressiong Packages.bz2 worksforme22:46
kerio*decompressing22:46
DocScrutinizer05I think CSSU 'conflicts' with busybox-power22:47
kerioah yes22:47
keriosardini: open a terminal, apt-get install --reinstall busybox-power22:47
kerioif it was an old version of bb-p22:47
sardinihow can I install package the not works ?22:47
DocScrutinizer05so maybe reinstalling busybox-power can fix stuff for you. But again, I'm not the best expert you can find, since I never touched bb-p22:47
keriosardini: hmm22:47
DocScrutinizer05hah, kerio been faster than me22:48
keriosardini: open a terminal22:48
kerioit's probably better if you do it on your computer, via ssh22:48
keriodo you have root access?22:49
DocScrutinizer05when he got bb-p? I'd hope so22:49
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sardiniyes sudo gainroot22:49
DocScrutinizer05use "root"22:49
keriook, as root:22:49
DocScrutinizer05not "sudo gainroot"22:50
keriowget http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/b/busybox-power/busybox-power_1.20.2power5_armel.deb && dpkg -i busybox-power_1.20.2power5_armel.deb22:50
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keriono, actually22:51
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, well then you should do /cd /home/user/MyDocs before22:51
keriomuch much easier22:51
keriorm /bin/bzip222:51
kerioand i mean much easier22:51
kerio:D22:51
DocScrutinizer05aha22:51
DocScrutinizer05o.O22:51
DocScrutinizer05hmm22:51
keriosardini: rm /bin/bzip2, then apt-get update as root, then apt-get install --reinstall busybox-power22:51
DocScrutinizer05might work22:51
sardiniok I will tell you22:52
kerioDocScrutinizer05: my apt prefers gzip, it's lighter and not much bigger than bzip222:52
DocScrutinizer05kerio: NEVER suggest to rm anything. EVER22:52
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kerio:(22:52
DocScrutinizer05use mv!22:52
keriooh please22:52
kerio"ln -s /bin/busybox /bin/bzip2" vs "mv /bin/bzip2.bak /bin/bzip2"22:53
kerioit's just one character longer22:53
sardiniall system use bzip222:54
keriosardini: and yet the stock fremantle works without it just fine22:55
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sardiniI have moved bzip2, apt-get update, sub-process gzip returned error code 122:59
DocScrutinizer05kerio: and when *his* bin/bzip is *not* a symlink?22:59
keriosardini: wtf22:59
kerioit's either skeiron that's busted, or...22:59
DocScrutinizer05no22:59
kerioDocScrutinizer05: gzip is from the stock busybox23:00
kerioDocScrutinizer05: if it wasn't a symlink to a busybox without bzip2, it would've worked23:00
DocScrutinizer05and probably as messed up by cssu install as bzip23:00
kerioDocScrutinizer05: nope23:01
keriounless the cssu busybox doesn't ship gzip23:01
DocScrutinizer05honestly, don't invent new leete stuff on helping users23:01
DocScrutinizer05stay on tested path23:02
keriosardini: what's the output of "busybox bzip2"?23:02
sardiniI wait N900 is becom very slow23:02
sardinierror with apt-get in a term,  but the packagemanager say me now updates23:03
sardinioh even operamobile update :)23:03
sardiniok in fact I have just 'remove' bzip223:04
keriosardini: what does "busybox bzip2" say?23:05
kerioeven as the normal user23:05
sardinicommunity SSU PAckage 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo7.2 is the last23:05
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keriosardini: is it?23:06
sardinikerio sorry n900 update cssu I can't type anymore23:07
kerioi don't really get what's happening23:07
sardinibut I see in the update Enhanced BusyBox shell23:07
sardiniquestion is why now is ok in the PackageManager and no in the apt-get23:08
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sardiniterm reboot? I pray23:09
sardini*?23:09
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sardinikerio, busybox byp223:21
sardiniapplet not found23:21
kerioalright23:21
kerioyou said that there's an update for Enhanced Busybox?23:22
keriodo that update too23:22
sardinivers 1.20.2power523:23
sardini65Mo updates...23:23
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sardinikerio, DocScrutinizer05 thanks a lot :)23:24
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sardiniah busybox-power update say to me that: /bin/busybox has been modified since installing poxer (invalid md5 checksum). Can be result busybox update from cssu23:27
sardiniI say ok, yes do it my wonderfull n90023:27
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Estel_WizardNumberNext,  cheesus, 50ms interval for gathering battery data? for fucks sake!23:45
Estel_wanna have 10x less battery life?23:45
SpeedEvilhaha23:45
SpeedEvil50ms may be interesting to do impedence spectrometry.23:46
SpeedEvilbut basically insane23:46
Estel_WizardNumberNext,  the funniest thing is that you *don't* need battery profiler in N90023:46
Estel_SpeedEvil,  yea23:46
Estel_well, he wanted 1 ms before23:46
Estel_until got info about kernel timers being 50ms accurate23:46
WizardNumberNextEstel_ did you read all what I wrote? I need anything below 2.56s, but be as accurate as possible, as I do not want to miss any sample23:46
Estel_hehe, of course I've seen it23:47
Estel_now the funniest part:23:47
SpeedEvilWizardNumberNext: the BQ* chip samples current every 5 seconds23:47
Estel_why do you want to mimic what hardware bq27x00 is already doing?23:47
WizardNumberNextEstel_ and I knew about kernel timers as soon as it was written here - IU tend to read whole backlog23:47
SpeedEvilsampling faster will not result in more readings23:47
Estel_profiler from n95 is dumb-phone equivalent (less useful) of what we have in hardware23:47
Estel_+ what speedevil said23:48
SpeedEviland the chip has a hardware integrator23:48
Estel_it's 5.12 second interval updated, 10% accurate23:48
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Estel_now, as ShadowJK said, polling it's data even every 5 seconds is decreasing idle time 5x23:48
WizardNumberNextEstel_ there is no damn way to mimic what bq27x00 is already doing without another bq27x00 alike device. All I want is to store those samples, but not missing single one and not storing doubles23:48
Estel_4mA idle usage is becoming 20+mA23:49
Estel_WizardNumberNext,  hat do you want to achieve, really23:49
keriosample every 5 seconds and skip duplicates?23:49
kerioidk23:49
Estel_bq27x00 stores mAh used like intelligent LiIon discharger, using variable current23:49
Estel_i just don't get what you want to achieve23:50
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Estel_by some script storing samples. For what reason?23:50
WizardNumberNextEstel_: simple answer: LOG23:50
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Estel_for?23:50
WizardNumberNextbattery log23:50
Estel_and what to do with it?23:50
WizardNumberNextread it23:50
Estel_log containing current stored every 5 second?23:50
Estel_for what fckn sake?23:51
WizardNumberNextyes23:51
SpeedEvilWizardNumberNext: there is no battery log.23:51
SpeedEvilyou need to read the chip every 5 seconds23:51
WizardNumberNextI want to see what would be affecting and how my current drain23:51
Estel_use powertop23:51
Estel_;)23:51
SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter23:52
Estel_you will get detailed log what is causing what and how often23:52
SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption23:52
Estel_~powertop23:52
infoboti guess powertop is available from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333, or http://www.2shared.com/file/11135428/bbe19274/powertop_111-1_armel.html23:52
WizardNumberNextSpeedEvil: that is what I want to do - read bq27x00 every 2.56, as there is some current value, which is updated every 2.56s23:52
Estel_infobot, no, powertop is available from repos23:52
infobotokay, Estel_23:52
SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management23:52
SpeedEvilWizardNumberNext: it's every 5.12s23:52
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WizardNumberNextI simply want full log23:53
WizardNumberNextwhich is average only then23:53
WizardNumberNextI want "instant" as well23:53
Estel_such log is utterly useless for *any*purpose23:53
SpeedEvilread the above pages23:53
Estel_no instant in this device, period23:53
Estel_+ what SpeedEvil said23:53
WizardNumberNextEstel_ wrong it is usefull23:53
SpeedEvil(of which I'm the main author)23:53
Estel_WizardNumberNext,  again, for your purpose, use powertop23:54
WizardNumberNextI want to know exact capacity of battery - you cannot know excact capacity of battery, if you measure capacity of battery in mAh23:54
SpeedEvilit's only useful if you correlate it with running processes, and track all enabled peripherals.23:54
Estel_there is no such thing as exact capacity of battery23:54
Estel_capacity is always relative23:54
SpeedEvilWizardNumberNext: the charge meter is designed for that23:54
Estel_capacity is relative to temperature, discharge current, etc.23:55
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WizardNumberNextI agree it would be relative capacity, as exact would be full-empty and empty Li-ion is dead Li-ion23:55
Estel_nope23:55
WizardNumberNextbut I would get knowledge of mWh instead of useless mAh23:55
SpeedEvilWizardNumberNext: the charge meter measures and integrates accurately the entire consumption of the device over the whole charge cycle23:56
Estel_even from hyphotetical full-empty, it's still relative23:56
WizardNumberNextEstel_: then do it: discharge Li-ion below 2.7V and charge it back - get fire extiguisher first23:56
SpeedEvilto do accurate milliwatt-hour measurements, you need about ten voltage measurements over the cycle23:56
SpeedEvilthat is all.23:56
SpeedEviland even then it's wrong23:56
SpeedEvilas the battery can provide fewer miliwatts hours if used to provide a higher power23:57
SpeedEvilread above pages23:57
Estel_yea, in practice, what SpeedEvil said is what you need and what I tried to tell you from beginning - bq27x00 does just that, measure capacity via variable current logging, it's as accurate aas you will get23:57
Estel_and if we're talking about battery's theory, thefre is no "exact" capacity ever, even theoretical23:57
Estel_it's always relative23:58
WizardNumberNextSpeedEvil: I am aware of internal resistance ad all other parametres, which you even have no idea have some impact on battery as well23:58
Estel_to temperature, to discharge, to pressure, etc23:58
SpeedEvilto do better, you need to do impedence spectroscopy. and have a accurate battery model. I started on this, but got bored.23:58
SpeedEvilWizardNumberNext: I suspect I know way, way more about lithium ion charge cycles than you.23:59
WizardNumberNextbattery is like every other piece of wire - have all possible electric parametres including resistance, impendance, being coil and so and on and on ....23:59
Estel_WizardNumberNext,  what you want to achieve is some hoax about accurate battery measuring, using wong assumptions and wrong methods 0_o23:59
kerio>battery is like every other piece of wire23:59
Estel_battery is not even remotely related to wire, btw23:59
kerioit's a bunch of fucking chemicals23:59
* Estel_ nods23:59

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