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| * DocScrutinizer05 suspects some minor lost-in-translation problem. I never get the catch of US-residents answering "Wonderful, marvelous!" when asking them how they are or what they think of this new stuff. Same way you seem to have another definition of hate than me, probably what you call hateworthy I'd call "I'd like to kill..." | 00:02 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on such quantitative scales from disgust to adore, from love to hate, from brilliant to silly, you always ahve to apply a multiplier factor as well as an offset to match any two person's personal nomenclature | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | e.g. in china there's only "yes", they never answer "no" to any question for some favour or if they think something is OK. You have to apply quite some offset to the common range from no over maybe to yes, to match that scale to chinese yes1 to yes30 | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | discussing if somebody can or can't hate a software seems rather futile in a multicultural multinational IRC channel | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's not futile though is to ponder whether you better try to adopt your peer's dictionary or make hin adopt yours | 00:11 |
| Skry | Ms. always (=daily) tells me I'm the coldest bastard she ever knew, then again, I personally think I'm usually unusually over-emotional sissy. Been trying to explain I'm nothing like she is, discussion does not go anywhere. Women. | 00:12 |
| Skry | point of views, gotta love em | 00:12 |
| Skry | :| | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 00:12 |
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| Skry | I've long since stopped minding what people say or so, most of "them" miss the big picture completely so I can't possibly relate to anything they have to offer. | 00:18 |
| Skry | or something like that | 00:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: well, this one here been a usual boring linux vs windows flamewar, happening not entirely on accident, but suddenly turning into something philosophical (or almost at least) | 00:22 |
| Skry | Mm-m, just the kind of pointless jargon I try to keep away from :) | 00:24 |
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| Skry | ofc it's good to some argumentation from time to time, if it does not get out of hand so to speak | 00:25 |
| Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: very much likely :) | 00:26 |
| Lava_Croft | I think Luke-Jr said it earlier | 00:26 |
| Luke-Jr | anyone know how to measure USB hub power (amps?) with a multimeter? | 00:31 |
| ccssnet | inline; black cable of multi meter to the power source, red wire to the device to be powered. i think... | 00:36 |
| Skry | you own a multimeter, so you must know what it is, and you know what power amps are so you should know already? | 00:36 |
| Luke-Jr | Skry: I barely know what it is :O | 00:37 |
| Luke-Jr | ccssnet: I don't want to power a device right now, just find out how much is available | 00:37 |
| ccssnet | theres no sticker? | 00:38 |
| ccssnet | or manual | 00:38 |
| Luke-Jr | ccssnet: lol | 00:38 |
| Luke-Jr | no, USB hubs provide NO info -.- | 00:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: 'you can't' | 00:38 |
| ccssnet | ouch | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: when did I say some USB hub keeps discharging N900? | 00:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: it's complex, and can't be measured simok | 00:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: you mean a powered hub? | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: there's no sane and simple way to find out how much power is available | 00:40 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: a while ago | 00:40 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: yes | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: ...since you only could tell from device ceasing to provide power | 00:40 |
| Luke-Jr | :/ | 00:40 |
| Luke-Jr | what if I short it? | 00:40 |
| SpeedEvil | that will generally not tll you much | 00:40 |
| ccssnet | short what? your power supply? | 00:40 |
| ccssnet | general rule... never cross the 5v+ and 12v+ | 00:41 |
| Luke-Jr | would a 60 W lightbulb tell me anything? :/ | 00:41 |
| SpeedEvil | read the label on the hub power supply | 00:41 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 00:41 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: there is no label | 00:41 |
| Luke-Jr | oh that | 00:41 |
| ccssnet | or any other +rail such as 3.3v | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: hardly I could've stated about some hub's properties, since I don't own more than 2 USB hubs, so couldn't tell anything about the 109732983210876 other models out there | 00:41 |
| Luke-Jr | that's combined, not per port | 00:41 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: from the N900 script | 00:41 |
| ShadowJK | Luke-Jr; i think the only useful method would be to have a a vriable load, a current meter, and a volt meter. You slowly increase the load while observing current and volt meter. | 00:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: the 'right' way is to ... | 00:42 |
| ShadowJK | I imagine one of two things will happen | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: bq27200 values are absolute and correct | 00:42 |
| SpeedEvil | and measure the point at which it hits 4.5v | 00:42 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: despite always telling me time-to-empty, it seems to charge | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's impossible | 00:43 |
| ShadowJK | Option a) at some point, the current meter drops to almost 0 all of the sudden. Option b) at some point voltage starts declining. in both cases onset of the event is your limit. | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: c) fire | 00:44 |
| ShadowJK | Yah I forgot fire | 00:44 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: multimeters can do that or no? :/ | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: look at http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bme_discharge_learn_log to get an idea what the values look like | 00:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: no | 00:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: you are trying to measure how much load a matchbox can take. | 00:47 |
| Luke-Jr | bah, looks like I don't have a working multimeter anyway | 00:47 |
| SpeedEvil | stamping it flat does not tell you much | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: obviously negative 'mA' values mean 'discharge', as does TTE != 65535 | 00:48 |
| SpeedEvil | you need to slowly apply load | 00:48 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: I don't have a log like that tho | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's not my fault | 00:49 |
| Luke-Jr | is it one of the mA shown by bq27k-detail2 ? | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: also note that these values are current to battery, not current from USB | 00:50 |
| SpeedEvil | there is no way to measure current from USB | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, the first one | 00:51 |
| SpeedEvil | it can only be guessed | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or derived | 00:51 |
| Luke-Jr | 0x0D - 0x0C: 6823 NAC Nominal Available Capacity High - Low Byte 3.57 µVh (1) R | 00:51 |
| Luke-Jr | *3.57 / 20 = 1221 mAh | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | from a pair of values of current to battery from bq27200, while switching off charging in between the readouts and keeping system load as constant as possible | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | true | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: that's not exactly what you want | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it also is not 'mA' but 'mAh' | 00:53 |
| Luke-Jr | 0x15 - 0x14: 885 AI Average Current High - Low Byte 3.57 µV (1) R | 00:53 |
| Luke-Jr | *3.57 / 20 = 158 mA | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, probably that one | 00:54 |
| Luke-Jr | but 0x17 - 0x16: 463 TTE Time-to-Empty High - Low Byte Minutes R | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sometimes there might be inconsistencies due to sequential readout or whatever | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I told you to use bq27200.sh 5 | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after all a oneshot readout doesn't tell you much anyway | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since those values may change rapidly, some of them | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you need to do some averaging on your own | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see e.g first 2 log lines in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bme_discharge_learn_log | 00:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the device been meant to charge at that point in time | 00:58 |
| Luke-Jr | hmm | 00:58 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: I don't notice any change in bq27200.sh 5 output when I unplug it :/ | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually sign of current is generic, from some of the flags in a status register | 01:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: (no change on unplug) which would strongly suggest that it didn't charge when it been plugged in | 01:01 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: but I've been charging it this way for a week now… | 01:01 |
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| Luke-Jr | and the battery's full……….. oh | 01:01 |
| Luke-Jr | I bet BME isn't charging it because it's full -.- | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: the charger chip stops charging when battery full, and resumes when battery depleted to ~80% | 01:02 |
| Luke-Jr | guess I have to leave it unplugged for a few hours | 01:02 |
| * Luke-Jr epic fail | 01:02 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this isn't bme doing this, this is bq24150 native behaviour | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bme turns this into one of either constant floating at 4180mV, or 30s recharge cycles every 240s | 01:03 |
| Luke-Jr | hm | 01:03 |
| Luke-Jr | any way to easily lock the screen on so it discharges faster? <.< | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | settings, display | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, I'm doing this by easy brightness applet | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | oh, yeah | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or was it 'simple'? | 01:05 |
| Luke-Jr | bah, I have to pick it up to do that :P | 01:05 |
| Luke-Jr | Settings->Display only lets me go up to 2 mins | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xchat has an option as well | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | or play a movie in a loop | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | better idea | 01:07 |
| Luke-Jr | hmm | 01:07 |
| Luke-Jr | my gentoo partition needs manual fsck :< | 01:07 |
| Luke-Jr | I don't think it's ever survived that before | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: what's your problem? | 01:07 |
| Luke-Jr | ? | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | re battery and charging | 01:08 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: I don't trust USB hubs/chargers to work as advertised | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's usually a faster and more direct way to find out about stuff | 01:08 |
| Luke-Jr | plus, most don't even advertise useful info | 01:08 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: I'd like to know my N900 is charging as fast as possible, and that it won't make my RPi unstable | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you got sysfs nodes for VBUS and D+- short | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | in general, measure voltage on USB | 01:09 |
| Luke-Jr | isn't it amps that matters? | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | if it's dropping under 4.5, you're overloading | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 01:10 |
| Luke-Jr | :/ | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, but you can't measure that | 01:10 |
| Luke-Jr | for all I know, N900 could be using 100mA to avoid overloading | 01:10 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 figures the guy probing Amperes of mains outlet with a multimeter | 01:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he was very upset why the multimeter exploded and tripped the fuse | 01:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: lsusb -v will tell you the configured current - on the PC side | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: well, those 100mA are what bme is supposed to do, on deaf hosts or fastchargers without D+- short | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | wait, you have this plugged into a raspberry pi? | 01:12 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: that's the plan | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | through a powered hub? | 01:13 |
| Luke-Jr | well, RPi says no PC connectivity allowed, so plan there was just hte wall charger :p | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | I was meaning plugging a n900 into a r-pi USB port | 01:14 |
| Luke-Jr | oh, no | 01:14 |
| Luke-Jr | two separate concerns | 01:14 |
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| Luke-Jr | I want to charge both N900 and run RPi off a wall charger | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then the wallcharger should provide 2A or more | 01:15 |
| Luke-Jr | the one I have is supposedly 2A total across 4 ports | 01:15 |
| Luke-Jr | but I want to be sure I'm getting the full 1A at each port, if I use two | 01:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd simply assume that | 01:15 |
| Luke-Jr | don't a lot of wall chargers limit to 500mA per port? | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they won't put cruft birdseed on the wallcharger PCB just to mess things up | 01:16 |
| Luke-Jr | ? | 01:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, that's why those are wallchargers | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they can do more than 500 | 01:16 |
| Luke-Jr | 2A total / 4 ports = 500 mA per port if all ports used | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nod | 01:16 |
| Luke-Jr | so it was clearly designed to only do 500 mA per port under normal use | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but the wallcharger won't implement some circuitry to enforce that | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you don't trust in my intuition, open it up and check for yourself | 01:18 |
| Luke-Jr | but no way to verify I get 1A before I fry the RPi? :/ | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fry RPi?? | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how? | 01:18 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: won't it break if I give it too little power? | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah | 01:18 |
| Luke-Jr | oh | 01:18 |
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| Luke-Jr | ok, the "assume and find out" approach sounds much nicer then | 01:19 |
| Luke-Jr | lol | 01:19 |
| Luke-Jr | I need to open it up to so the D-+ short anyway | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 01:19 |
| Luke-Jr | unless I can do it in the external connector part | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'll see all 4 ports sharing a common VBUS and GND rail | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe with a fuse each, but that fuse is like 1..2A then | 01:21 |
| peterx | Ok, I did the most stupid thing ever: I accidentally locked my n900 with some lock code I set years ago. Is there a way to read the flash via usb (and not only write), or install some boot loader that boots from the sd card such that I can change or brute force the lock code from within the device? | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: alas not, unless you still can connect via WLAN and ssh | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can boot a rescueOS though | 01:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and then "brute-force" the lockcode with john the ripper | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~rescueos | 01:22 |
| infobot | i guess rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ | 01:22 |
| peterx | DocScrutinizer05: yeah' that's what I thought | 01:22 |
| merlin1991 | peterx: another way would be to flash u-boot and boot ie nemo | 01:23 |
| peterx | ah, that's the purpose of the "load" function of the flasher | 01:23 |
| merlin1991 | it can read the appropriate flash parts aswell | 01:23 |
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| merlin1991 | and you could just flash nemo onto a sd and load the nemo kernel with flasher | 01:24 |
| merlin1991 | thus leaving no trace of your recovery | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75369 | 01:24 |
| tchell_ | Phone asks me for lock code, says code accepted, but then cycled endlessly on bouncy dots without ever finishing booting. Any hints? | 01:25 |
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| peterx | DocScrutinizer05: wow, that's great, thanks a lot! | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tchell_: it *might* just do a fsck.ext3 | 01:25 |
| peterx | and merlin, too | 01:26 |
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| merlin1991 | btw I actually did the use nemo sd + load nemo kernel to recover my sisters n900 lockcode :P | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 | 01:27 |
| tchell_ | DocScrutinizer05: for 40 minutes? | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fsck can take forever | 01:27 |
| merlin1991 | fsck can make things worse ;) | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but it's entirely unclear how to check if it's really fsck or not | 01:28 |
| merlin1991 | because maemo bootscripts are fsckd ;) | 01:28 |
| tchell_ | hmm. | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, I ranted about that some days ago | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we'll get a fix for it eventually in CSSU | 01:28 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: gotta be like 2 weeks by now | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | quite possible | 01:29 |
| peterx | by the way, can I use flasher-3.12 instead of flasher-3.5? | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: nope | 01:29 |
| merlin1991 | peterx: only works for harmattan | 01:29 |
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| peterx | ok | 01:30 |
| tchell_ | I wish I could ssh into it and see whether it was doing anything. | 01:30 |
| MrPingu | can we boot rescue OS through U-boot so we don't need the flasher? | 01:30 |
| peterx | thanks | 01:30 |
| merlin1991 | MrPingu: yep | 01:30 |
| MrPingu | merlin1991: Thanks, just came to my mind | 01:31 |
| merlin1991 | MrPingu: there is a post on tmo from Pali for a proper bootmenu entry | 01:31 |
| MrPingu | Sounds like an awesome method for rescue next to BM | 01:31 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if we could boot rescueOS even without proper menu entry in uboot-menu, just by entering the right magic spells to tell uboot where to boot | 01:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/where/what/. | 01:33 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: yep you can just enter what is part of the entry in the u-boot console | 01:33 |
| merlin1991 | yields the same result | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | modulo the keyboard doesn't allow numbers and special chars like / ? | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or was that the useless mer shell? | 01:34 |
| merlin1991 | afaik the keyboard is the en layout, you should be able to guess everything | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or meego shell | 01:35 |
| merlin1991 | meego shell had maliit with the | symbol hidden 3 clicks away | 01:35 |
| merlin1991 | pfehw | 01:35 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I added code to uboot for n900 english layout | 01:36 |
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| Pali | + additional keys fn+up, fn+down, fn+left and fn+right | 01:37 |
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| peterx | hm, rescueos comes up, but the /dev-devices seem to be missing. will try again in half an hour | 01:38 |
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| MrPingu | merlin1991: thanks, found it | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: dev devices might need some module loading | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno how rescueOS is configured | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I'd assume usually it should grant access to maemo root and MyDocs OOTB, even mounted | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask NIN101 | 01:45 |
| NIN101 | /dev/ should be there including the device nodes | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi NIN101 | 01:46 |
| NIN101 | hi | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | great you're always here when we need you | 01:46 |
| NIN101 | I am also here when you don't need me :P | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hihihi | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no worries, anyway great you're always here :-) | 01:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | while pali already vanished before I could thank him for special keys in uboot ;-) | 01:48 |
| MrPingu | I'm going for a sleep | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: what are the dev nodes you're missing? | 01:49 |
| MrPingu | g'night peepz | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | night MrPingu | 01:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | tchell_: anyway, a fsck is known to take several hours, if you want to give it this long. | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tchell_: otherwise reflash is your option, probably | 01:52 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 just hopes the weirdos have considered to already crank up bme before starting fsck, in initscripts | 01:53 | |
| tchell_ | what's bme? | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tchell_: and yeah, you probably should give bme a chance to power the device and hook it up to fastchargger | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since shutdown due to depleted battery during fsck is the least thing you'd want to see | 01:55 |
| tchell_ | well, I did plug it in | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so it's up to you now to either sit it out, or eventually lose patience and resort to more powerful and invasive measures like reflash or rescueOS | 01:56 |
| tchell_ | ok. | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/sit it out/walk it off/ | 01:57 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: so it's up to you now to either walk it off, or eventually lose patience and resort to more powerful and invasive measures like reflash or rescueOS | 01:57 |
| tchell_ | :) | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I witnessed one guy running a fsck on a similar embedded device for 3 days | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it actually finished eventually | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas it wasn't able to fix all errors in the fs ;-P | 01:58 |
| Skry | :) | 01:59 |
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| peterx | NIN101: mmcblk* is missing | 02:00 |
| NIN101 | well, dunno. | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | means "should be there"? | 02:01 |
| NIN101 | means should be there and was never reported to be mising | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could be missing on eMMC completely fsckd up | 02:02 |
| NIN101 | maybe | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otoh, doesn't rescueOS boot from uSD? | 02:02 |
| NIN101 | it's an initrd. | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah | 02:03 |
| peterx | is there a native pipe symbol in the us keyboard layout? (i have german printed) | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess it has dmesg? | 02:03 |
| NIN101 | sure | 02:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: alas not | 02:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: though I dunno which kbd map NIN101 used in rescueOS | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or if the vkbd for symbols is supported | 02:05 |
| NIN101 | you can use the blue arrow | 02:05 |
| peterx | ok, mount root worked | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how's that, without /dev/mmcblk* ? | 02:06 |
| NIN101 | it's NAND | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err mtd yeah | 02:06 |
| peterx | yeah, there is some ubi magic going on | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, mounting ubi is rather black magic | 02:07 |
| Hurrian | peterx, ubiattach ;) | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NIN101: no scripted support for that in rescueOS? | 02:07 |
| NIN101 | there is a script that does that | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much | 02:08 |
| peterx | ah, found the pipe symbol, it's where the immensely useful euro-symbol is on the german layout... | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hey :-) | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so NIN101 used a better than standard keymap | 02:08 |
| NIN101 | yeah the keyboard layout situation is quite uncool in rescueos but often you just want to telnet in via usb networking or so. | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since US layout has &GBP there | 02:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (I wouldn't even know where to find that on my german kbd) | 02:10 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05: my N900 has GBP, USD, and EUR symbols :( | 02:10 |
| NIN101 | afaik the german kbd doesn't have the pipei symbl | 02:10 |
| Hurrian | I have the GBP and EUR mapped to curly braces. | 02:11 |
| peterx | dmesg shows "mtdoops: mtd device (mtddev=name/number) must be supplied" | 02:11 |
| Hurrian | peterx, ignore that, that's just for the mtdoops (log on mtd2) driver | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mtdoops is sth you won't want to use on rescueOS | 02:12 |
| peterx | furthermore: "Creating 6 MTD partitions on "omap2-onenand"' | 02:12 |
| peterx | ' | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds correct | 02:12 |
| peterx | but that also seems to be something different, isn't it? | 02:12 |
| Hurrian | mhm, it's just listing the available MTD partitions into the map | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | different than what? | 02:12 |
| peterx | different than the partition I need | 02:12 |
| peterx | the one that stores the lock key | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | partition 4 is rootfs iirc | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah, that's partition 1 | 02:13 |
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| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, it's partition 6, MTD5 that stores rootfs | 02:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: right | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway CAL it partition 1 | 02:14 |
| Hurrian | partition 4 is kernel (MTD3), and MTD4 is the ~2MB initfs space that's unused | 02:14 |
| peterx | ok, wait a moment | 02:14 |
| peterx | I just successfully mounted MTD5 via ubi | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well mtd1: 00060000 00020000 "config" | 02:15 |
| peterx | does that mean that I can similarly access the partition that stores the lock code? | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 >> echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): << | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/mtd1 is what you need, you don't even mount it | 02:16 |
| peterx | argh | 02:17 |
| peterx | sorry | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no worries | 02:17 |
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| peterx | I thought I needed /dev/mmcblk* because that is what mass-storage-enable.sh tried to access | 02:17 |
| peterx | ok, so let's try to retrieve the lock code | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first you retrieve the hash | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or encrypted key | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then you rip that with john | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on your PC | 02:18 |
| peterx | yeah | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless your "encrypted" key was "12345" which stands for "12345" ;-P | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I guess you already made sure that's not your lockcode | 02:20 |
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| peterx | yeah, I tried 12345 not only once ;-) | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw if any of you has installed proper tools, you should use >> echo root:$(busybox grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): << instead | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as gnugrep does barf up on the binary file | 02:24 |
| peterx | YEAH! | 02:24 |
| peterx | it worked :-) | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | already ripped? | 02:25 |
| peterx | john did it in less than a second | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, quite usual | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 02:25 |
| peterx | thank you all! | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pleased to help | 02:26 |
| peterx | now I'll install BackupMenu | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good plan | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though, for the devicelock it wouldn't have helped much | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you get a working shell in BM | 02:27 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 suspects you need KP for that to work | 02:28 | |
| peterx | ok, but nevertheless, I do not really trust the built-in backup solution | 02:28 |
| peterx | I would rather read the device files and pipe them into bup | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and fully justified so | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BM does real backups, not like the freaky builtin backup app that actually only stores some config files and a list of installed apps | 02:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but I recently learnt BM needs proper date and time set on N900, for restore to not fail epically | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just for a sidenote | 02:31 |
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| peterx | DocScrutinizer05: ah, good to know | 02:36 |
| Skry | actually, the issue doc speaks of was not because of tar complaining about timestamps | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: so please elaborate | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I thought it was | 02:38 |
| Skry | didnt follow the discussion but apparently he had different kernel in backup than what was installed | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so the tar was only warnings | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ? | 02:39 |
| Skry | so issue was missing modules i presume | 02:39 |
| Skry | yes they were only warnings nothing more | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks a lot | 02:39 |
| Skry | np. imo that information should probably be in some wiki or something as a note if it already isn't. | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm | 02:41 |
| infobot | well, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 02:41 |
| nox- | so a backup is useless if you dont also backup the exact same kernel package? | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, if you restore kernel modules that don't match the kernel you got installed, you're obviously doomed | 02:42 |
| nox- | ah it backs up modules but not the kernel itself? | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since BM doesn't backup kernels (yet?) | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 02:42 |
| nox- | hm | 02:42 |
| nox- | that sounds like an useful missing feature then... | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ... you're supposed to flash a fresh maemo rootfs plus the kernel matching your modules in the backup on top | 02:43 |
| nox- | right so you have to backup that kernel too | 02:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nox-: we already 'inveted' how to backup and flash back the kernel and other mtd partitons as a complete image, only missing to implement that into BM | 02:44 |
| Hurrian | but the problem is Backupmenu doesn't have "flasher" installed | 02:44 |
| nox- | i c | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: mtdutils | 02:44 |
| Hurrian | ah | 02:45 |
| nox- | could one tell restore to skip modules too? | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, probably | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *could* | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if you actually can | 02:45 |
| nox- | might also make sense... | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, sure | 02:46 |
| nox- | hm are the backups just tarballs that you could remove the modules from on a pc? | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 02:47 |
| nox- | ok good to know... | 02:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you should keep them on the uSD for that reason | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 02:49 |
| nox- | *nod* | 02:50 |
| peterx | is there a lock and wipe application for maemo? | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | lock and wipe? | 02:57 |
| peterx | lock and wipe on x failed attempts to unlock | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | remote? | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not afaik | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but you could set up some fake thing for that easily | 02:59 |
| peterx | ok, different (and hopefully last) question: is it enough (disregarding kernel update) to backup the two partitions exported by backupmenu? it looks like the root partition is missing | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ummm, I never thought something's missing | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I currently don't have the exact menu in front of me | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but two partitions sounds about right: / and /home | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | instead of /home BM might backup /opt? | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus missing out /home/user ? | 03:05 |
| peterx | it exports a device with three partitions: | 03:05 |
| peterx | the MyDocs partition, a swap partition and what seems to be /home | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, the export is something completely different from what a backup does | 03:06 |
| peterx | at least there are directories called user and opt | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a SWAP partition?? | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure? | 03:06 |
| peterx | at least fdisk says so | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I got NFC what BM exports | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never used that function | 03:07 |
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| peterx | ok, it exports the eMMC | 03:07 |
| peterx | so the root partition is missing | 03:08 |
| peterx | there is also a second device which could be the nand, but I cannot access it "no medium found" | 03:08 |
| Luke-Jr | looks like USB hub B is 500 mA | 03:09 |
| peterx | ah, it can be accessed via ssh and usb networking | 03:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, three exported partitions sounds like /, /home, ~user/MyDocs | 03:27 |
| peterx | no, they are not, root is in nand | 03:28 |
| peterx | and it is not exported | 03:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so how is it relevant for backup then? | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 60 sec to time lapse | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 45 | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 30 | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2a:59:59 | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2:00:10 | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the only two friggin clocks ignoring this completely are my oldfashioned analog alarm clock and my radio controlled clock(!!) | 03:01 |
| peterx | I am using bup ( https://github.com/apenwarr/bup - deduplicating git based utility) to do the backup | 03:03 |
| peterx | and I would like to simply store all of the partitions as they are | 03:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, you're out of luck for that, since obviously nothing is exporting the / partition | 03:09 |
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| peterx | sure, but you can gain access to it via backupmenu, usb networking and ssh | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course you could do a BM backup of root partition, then scp or otherwise transfer that tarball to your backup machine, untar and archive | 03:11 |
| peterx | I just need to for i in 0 1 2 3 4 5; do ssh 192.168.2.15 "cat /dev/mtd${i}ro" | bup split -n n900-mtd${i}; done | 03:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | err wut? | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc what you plan to do with that, but a image of mtd done by cat is basically useless | 03:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless bup had some ultra-special magic | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and probably such magic is even impossible, since it lacks the support in the way cat and /dev/mtd work | 03:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe not. But anyway you couldn't restore those images anyway | 03:17 |
| peterx | hm? why? | 03:17 |
| peterx | can't I just cat them back? | 03:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since that's NAND | 03:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and UBIfs or other nifty stuff to handle badblocks and OOB etc | 03:18 |
| peterx | ok, I thought I could just use it as an ordinary block device... | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, that's what BM-v1 thought could be done, until we tought robbiethe1st about problems with bad blocks in NAND and kicked it out of the maemo repos | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since then we got BM-v2 which is doing a file-by-file disk image to tarballs | 03:19 |
| peterx | hm, and what about the other things like the kernel and the boot loader? | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I recently looked ito mtdutils which allow to actually write to NAND in a compatible way, with mtdwrite taking care about bad blocks and OOB | 03:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas it's not yet(?) implemented into BM | 03:21 |
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| Ken-Young | I had to re-install the scratchbox-based SDK for Maemo 5. The crosscompiling stuff all works, and the proprietary Nokia stuff works, but dh)make is missing, so I can't build a .deb . Does anyone khow where I can get that from, and why it would not be present in the normal SDK installation? | 03:35 |
| Skry | can't one read mtd like a block device when using mtdblock? | 03:37 |
| Skry | or does it also produce useless image | 03:38 |
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| peterx | Skry: reading seems to work | 04:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | reading might work (not completely checked the facts), but definitely writing doesn't | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even for reading I'm unsure if it will skip bad blocks or deliver garbage | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but honestly, why you don't use mtdtools for all that? | 04:48 |
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| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer06: got the USB charger open, but shorting random pins on the USB port seems to do nothing | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, random pinds? | 05:05 |
| Luke-Jr | well, dunno which ones are D+- | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should short D+ to D-, aka the middle two | 05:05 |
| Luke-Jr | there's no obvious correlation on the PCB | 05:05 |
| Luke-Jr | ooh | 05:06 |
| Luke-Jr | found it maybe | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's not? how's that? | 05:06 |
| Luke-Jr | USB port is horizontal, pins are vertical? | 05:06 |
| Luke-Jr | or in a square | 05:06 |
| Luke-Jr | not even sure which ones are which | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all USB receptacles I've seen had 4 pins in a row | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you see the USB receptacles? | 05:06 |
| Luke-Jr | yes | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the solder points are right to the back | 05:07 |
| Luke-Jr | ⁇? | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on backside of each receptacle there are 4 pins in a row | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you consider the side where you insert the plug as fronstside | 05:08 |
| Luke-Jr | ok | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wouldn't know how to describe it any better | 05:09 |
| Luke-Jr | is it possible the N900 got pissed at my shorting at random and decided to stop looking for a charger? <.< | 05:09 |
| Luke-Jr | wait what | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I haven't ever seen any 4pin fullsize USB receptacles that were any ambiguous regarding pins | 05:09 |
| Luke-Jr | I replugged it to reset any such logic… and it said Charger disconnected -.- | 05:10 |
| Luke-Jr | looks like of the 4 in a row, the right two are D? | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the MIDDLE two!!! | 05:11 |
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| Luke-Jr | but only shorting the right two works.. :/ | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no matter from which side you look it's always the middle two that are data | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, great. Try&error on a $$$ device | 05:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're awatre that USB data is 3V3 though VBUS is 5V ? | 05:13 |
| Luke-Jr | someone told me the worst that happens is I break the USB charger :| | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the one who told you that for sure didn't anticipate you're doing random insane stuff | 05:14 |
| Luke-Jr | you may have a point there <.< | 05:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | data lines should be OVP for 5V | 05:14 |
| Luke-Jr | hmm, maybe I'm just sucky at shorting the pins I intend to | 05:15 |
| Luke-Jr | in any case, I think my 93% full is too full to test speed now :< | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | connecting/shorting USB data to any point of mains input of charger might kill some stuff though | 05:15 |
| Luke-Jr | and I lack any conductive material to make a perm connection with | 05:15 |
| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: do you ever sleep? :) | 05:16 |
| Luke-Jr | should have had wire glue around here, but it seems to be lost :< | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should just happily assume it is all ok, and short the middle two pins of USB with a solder blob | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: sleep is overrated | 05:16 |
| jon_y | is your nick shared by multiple users? | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, multiple nicks are shared by me ;-P | 05:17 |
| jon_y | or doing the "overman" sleep | 05:17 |
| Ken-Young | I had to re-install the scratchbox-based SDK for Maemo 5. The crosscompiling stuff all works, and the proprietary Nokia stuff works, but dh)make is missing, so I can't build a .deb . Does anyone khow where I can get that from, and why it would not be present in the normal SDK installation? | 05:17 |
| Ken-Young | s/dh)make/db_make | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Ken-Young: I couldn't recall anybody complaining about some basic stuff like that missing in maemo SB. So maybe you're looking for the wrong thing? | 05:18 |
| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep uberman sleep cycle? :) | 05:18 |
| jon_y | Six 20-minute naps (every 4 hours) | 05:19 |
| jon_y | 2 hour sleep a day | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I sleep while not typing | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a few seconds between each two posts | 05:19 |
| Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer05, Well, I've done a search of every file under /scratchbox, and nothing called db_make is there. | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Ken-Young: maybe it's not called db_make then | 05:20 |
| Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer05, It sure was when I originally installed the SDK, a couple of years ago. | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Ken-Young: though you have to ask somebody with a tad more recent experience in using SB | 05:21 |
| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: what build env do you use? | 05:21 |
| Ken-Young | I've been searching TMO threads. Some people mention this problem, but I haven't seen a solution yet. | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not building stuff usually | 05:21 |
| jon_y | what is the most common system? SB? | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Ken-Young: you better wait for somebody using SB and not haviong the problem, then ask him how he's building debs | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe there's build_deb | 05:22 |
| jon_y | btw, is the N900 armv7? | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or whatever else | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: basically yes, I'd think | 05:23 |
| jon_y | but no hardfloat? | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, we have hardfp aka numbercruncher on cortex-A8 | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik | 05:24 |
| jon_y | oh ok, so it is possible to stick debian armhf into easychroot? | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should? | 05:24 |
| jon_y | iirc the normal armel platform is softfloat | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a normal armel platform? ;-) | 05:25 |
| jon_y | well, debian armel | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah | 05:25 |
| jon_y | from easydebian | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you meant the sw | 05:25 |
| jon_y | yeah | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | softfp vs hardfp is just an API convention, where to pass floats, if in CPU domain or in float registers - afaik | 05:26 |
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| jon_y | well, that and some hardware support for fp computations with hardfp | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically both are lib stubs to the numbercruncher | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least that's what they told me | 05:27 |
| jon_y | only hardfp takes advantage of the hardware support though | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and meego-CE as of stskeeps decided to go for hardfp on N900 | 05:28 |
| jon_y | softfp float computation is done in software, really really slow | 05:28 |
| Skry | can confirm the armv7h | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, that's unrelated afaik | 05:28 |
| jon_y | meego-CE? | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even softfp may use numbercruncher | 05:29 |
| Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer05, Really, softfp does not mean software floating point (not using CPU float instructions)? | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the real meego, now mer | 05:29 |
| jon_y | I thought softfp meant emulation with integer math | 05:29 |
| jon_y | your mantissas and what not | 05:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I also thought that, until stskeeps educated me | 05:30 |
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| jon_y | ok, so softfp using numbercruncher depends on the math library? | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but as of now my knowledge says both are in a lib (probably libc), and the hardfp vs softfp only says how to invoke the lib functions for sin() div-float() etc. While the lib could use software emulation with softfp, but also could use numbercruncher with softfp | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 05:32 |
| jon_y | ok, makes sense | 05:32 |
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| jon_y | though I suppose float asm insn is only present in hardfp | 05:33 |
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| robbiethe1st | Hm, could we use GPU or DSP for some of the floating point calcs? | 05:33 |
| jon_y | I suppose you could if you can program them | 05:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no, there's a dedicated numbercruncher afaik, called neon(?) | 05:34 |
| jon_y | I thought neon was some kind of SIMD thing? | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why there's a (?) behind it | 05:34 |
| jon_y | ok | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not aure about the hw float support | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what I'm sure about is the diff between hardfp and softfp | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and since hardfp means "pass the floats in the float registers" ther have to be some float registers which wouldn't make sense if there's no float ALU to do something with those float registers | 05:37 |
| jon_y | ok, so N900 is using the softfp ABI, but has hardware support? | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, maemo is using softfp ABI, mer/meego is using hardfp | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if this didn't change since I last heard about it | 05:39 |
| jon_y | ok, understood | 05:40 |
| jon_y | chroot isn't going to translate between ABIs | 05:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 05:40 |
| jon_y | I don't think debian armel is going to take advantage of the hw number cruncher | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but we recently talked about it and found that probably there's no FP gateways in the chroot borderline | 05:40 |
| jon_y | do you need the kernel to trap them? | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ypur whole system has to be compiled for either hardfp or softfp, but since all your 'system' lives inside chroot, a chroot hosting a hardfp could live on a host running softfp | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the float math is done in a lib, not in kernel | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | floats are even deprecated or rather forbidden in kernel land | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the lib is part of your chroot | 05:43 |
| Skry | guys, http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/ARM-Options.html | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so? | 05:44 |
| jon_y | ah right, I forgot the libc for debian also lives in chroot | 05:44 |
| jon_y | hoepfully there aren't any problems with context switching etc | 05:44 |
| jon_y | I still remember the win98 days and sse, there may only be 1 SSE program at a given time | 05:45 |
| jon_y | the OS wasn't sse aware and did not save/restore the XMM registers on context switching | 05:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd guess context switching should take care of the float registers as well | 05:45 |
| jon_y | well, does the N900 kernel do that? :) | 05:46 |
| jon_y | does it need to be aware of the float registers? or are they shared with the gp registers? | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good question, but since I never heard stskeeps mentioning a hardfp kernel for mer/meego, I assume kernel usually cares about float regs as well | 05:46 |
| jon_y | in the sse case XMM was a different register than the general purpose ones, so OS needs to be awre of them | 05:47 |
| jon_y | ok | 05:47 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/pics/20121027_010.jpg | 05:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | looks good | 05:48 |
| Skry | there are no floats in arm kernel so the hardfp kernel people keep asking about is irrelevant and you need to hack Makefiles to even achieve that. | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though I'm worried about those resistors which are next to /under the USB receptacles. They look like they implement another charger standard, compatible to apple etc | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: please rephrase | 05:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: I'd suggest you don't short all 4 USB receptacles like that, keeping some of them for apple products | 05:51 |
| jon_y | Skry: the kernel does not need to be aware of the registers? | 05:51 |
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| jon_y | eg hardfp and softfp registers are the same, maybe placement is different? | 05:51 |
| jon_y | actually are there any difference in register use? | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >> The public ARM Cortex-A8 processor incorporates the technologies available in the ARM7 architecture. These technologies include Neon for media and signal processing and Jazelle RCT for acceleration of realtime compilers, Thumb-2 technology for code density and the VFPv3 floating-point architecture. << | 05:57 |
| Skry | meh, just try to pass CFLAGS="-mfloat-abi=hard" to compiler when building kernel and look if it's actually used. Not. Anyways, there is no gain in hardfp kernel. | 05:58 |
| Skry | and yes you can run hfp in chroot on sfp system, incompatibilites come with linking libraries of different abi | 06:01 |
| jon_y | ok, kernel support not needed | 06:02 |
| Skry | and if I recall correctly, kernel does not have that much floats so vfp is sufficient | 06:02 |
| jon_y | Skry: I mean does the kernel actually need to know about vfp specifically for the libc to use hardfloat ABI? | 06:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: there's obviously no sense in passing float-abi=hard to kernel, since nothing is passing any floats to kernel. Nevertheless that's not been the question in the end | 06:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the hardfp ABI is to libc, which is not used by kernel afaik | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still the question is if kernel (particularly scheduler) will take care about VFPv3 registers on task switching | 06:06 |
| jon_y | yeah, will it foul up like the SSE case in win98? | 06:06 |
| Skry | afaik it does take care of | 06:08 |
| Skry | and sorry, read backlog very briefly, kinda busy here | 06:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: IroN900:~# cat /proc/cpu ->Features : swp half fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 | 06:09 |
| jon_y | ok, cpu does know about vfp | 06:09 |
| jon_y | and Skry says the kernel task switcher takes care of the vfp regs | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | It would be more than insane if it doesn't | 06:10 |
| jon_y | looks like no trouble at all in chroot hardfp as long as you don't mix the libc | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 06:10 |
| jon_y | eg don't call easydebian stuff from outside the chroot | 06:11 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: Apple products are broken? | 06:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: they just use another equally ligitimate charger spec | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | something like "D+ = 0.66*VBUS; D-=0.33*VBUS" | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which looks exactly like what those resistors are implementing | 06:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a 2R/R devider for one D line, a R/2R devider for the other | 06:14 |
| Luke-Jr | wtf? two incompatible standards? :/ | 06:14 |
| jon_y | make sure to get BIG resistors, so load don't particularly affect the voltage :) | 06:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and both introduced resp certified by USB cert | 06:15 |
| jon_y | maybe I forgot my basic electronics | 06:15 |
| Luke-Jr | ugh | 06:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik | 06:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | at least D+- short *is* certified by USB cert foundation | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or whatever the name of those xxxxx | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not entirely sure about the "apple standard" | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: actually you should unsolder/remove the 4 resistors on the shorted USB port | 06:18 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: does it really matter? | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they easily might spoil the D+- short detection | 06:19 |
| Luke-Jr | already put it back together.. | 06:19 |
| jon_y | iirc "Apple standard" was formulated before the d+- short thing | 06:19 |
| jon_y | they needed more power than the standard USB provides | 06:19 |
| jon_y | some sort of signaling mechanism to say it's ok to draw more than the normal current | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what D+- short does as well | 06:20 |
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| jon_y | Apple did it for their iPods | 06:21 |
| jon_y | before all this was standardized | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually N900 and other similar devices are supposed to detect D+- short by attaching a pullup to one D-line, a weak pulldown to the other, and then check if the line with weak pulldown is actually at high level. So somehow the both standards might be partially compatible under certain preconditions | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (or maybe swap "up" and "down" in my last statement, I can't remember) | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: ^^^ that's why the resistors might interfere with N900's internal detection of D+- short | 06:25 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: in practice, it doesn't | 06:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: the D+- standard requires none of the D-lines conected to any other voltage level, not via resistors nor directly | 06:26 |
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| kerio | yay, chanserv is back ^_^ | 10:41 |
| kerio | and you're all back too! | 10:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yoh, moinmoin | 13:24 |
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| kerio | moin | 13:25 |
| gry | morning | 13:26 |
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| freemangordon | WTF? PA in -thumb uses more CPU than stock. Something is wrong here | 13:31 |
| kerio | ...wat | 13:35 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 13:35 |
| kerio | freemangordon: try disabling thumb and compiling with gcc4.7 | 13:35 |
| freemangordon | will do | 13:35 |
| freemangordon | but first want to see why is that | 13:36 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: D: | 13:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | is cpufreq/governour a usual process like any other? I.E. will it get scheduled and switching of cpufreq only happens when governor is the active&running process? | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, freemangordon: use powertop | 13:44 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: why? the difference is clearly visible. frequency locked on 250 | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | top etc are basically useless for in-depth and really meaningful investigations of cpu usage of a process | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 13:45 |
| freemangordon | I bet it is because -O3 -ffast-math | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with locked freq that's a tad different indeed | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's fast-math? | 13:46 |
| freemangordon | gcc is still not good enough doing NEON optimizations | 13:46 |
| freemangordon | enable auto-vectorizer | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 13:46 |
| freemangordon | i'll recompile with -o@ | 13:46 |
| freemangordon | -O2 | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | trying to do math in vector processor might be a poor idea | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for audio | 13:47 |
| kerio | and -ffast-math is often slower | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what I meant | 13:47 |
| freemangordon | in theory that should speed up floating point a lot | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the math in audio isn't exactly vector math usually | 13:48 |
| freemangordon | BTW I am using stock compiler flags | 13:48 |
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| kerio | "Disabling ‘fast-math’ not only solved the consistency problem, it made Avida faster in certain cases and had no effect in others." | 13:48 |
| freemangordon | which gcc? | 13:49 |
| kerio | it's a 2009 article, so idk | 13:49 |
| freemangordon | that is old | 13:49 |
| freemangordon | though I saw the same with openssl | 13:49 |
| freemangordon | enabling tree-vectorizer and ffast-math made openssl slower | 13:49 |
| freemangordon | by a 2-3% but still | 13:50 |
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| kerio | freemangordon: are you sure you're not confusing the logs, btw? | 13:53 |
| freemangordon | which logs? | 13:54 |
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| kerio | well, the results | 13:54 |
| kerio | anyway, -ffast-math does some *nasty* things | 13:54 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: -O3 along with -ffast-math allows gcc to use NEON intrinstics | 13:58 |
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| freemangordon | or better said tells gcc to use them | 13:58 |
| kerio | well it's clearly not working as intended | 13:59 |
| freemangordon | wel,, it works as inteneded, just a bit slower | 13:59 |
| freemangordon | stock PA is compiled with the same flags | 13:59 |
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| freemangordon | but as 4.7 has way better support for NEON, it "optimizes" much more code to use NEON | 14:00 |
| kerio | everyone says that gcc is crap at using NEON intrinsics :s | 14:00 |
| freemangordon | and the result seems to be slower code | 14:00 |
| freemangordon | yah | 14:00 |
| freemangordon | *yeah | 14:00 |
| kerio | i say asm dat shit | 14:00 |
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| freemangordon | naah, i'll disable fast-math and will -O2 instead of -O3 for start | 14:01 |
| freemangordon | after having something to eat :D | 14:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | how about some decent profiling tool? | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that I could name any specific one right away | 14:18 |
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| * ShadowJK 'd cry more about pa if it used floating point for processing audio | 14:35 | |
| ShadowJK | also try -Os :D | 14:36 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: wait, it doesn't? | 14:37 |
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| ShadowJK | it's written by lunatics so it probably does | 14:38 |
| ShadowJK | but i dunno | 14:38 |
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| ShadowJK | found something mentioning resampling is fixed point atleast | 14:43 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: wouldn't floats make it faster? | 14:44 |
| ShadowJK | no? | 14:44 |
| ShadowJK | apparently it's neon optimised version of speex's integer resample :) | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | loosely related: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/twinklephone/message/4013 | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least a confirmation od | 14:47 |
| ShadowJK | So if the neon code didnt get compiled with newer gcc4.7, or if the neon code was written with intrinsics and new gcc does something random in a different way now | 14:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | of "shadowJK: it's written by lunatics" | 14:47 |
| kerio | can't we write a PA emulation layer for alsa? | 14:48 |
| kerio | :D | 14:48 |
| ShadowJK | kerio; was it you with the xplosm cartoon edit of PA? | 14:48 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: it's not mine | 14:48 |
| kerio | i got it on #redeclipse | 14:48 |
| ShadowJK | well do you still have link | 14:48 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: /topic :) | 14:48 |
| ShadowJK | oh :) | 14:48 |
| kerio | also wtf, this is not #maemo-ssu | 14:48 |
| ShadowJK | not in topics? | 14:49 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: http://i.imgur.com/SAp0D.png | 14:49 |
| kerio | well, we're discussing the cssu-thumb recompile of pulseaudio... | 14:49 |
| ShadowJK | :D | 14:49 |
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| * ShadowJK bookmarks it | 14:53 | |
| kerio | freemangordon: benchmarked PA without -ffast-math yet? | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | author: fakjujahuu X-P | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why didn't I think about that? | 14:57 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: huh? | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<kerio> also wtf, this is not #maemo-ssu)) no worries, some users wouldn't ever know about the awesome stuff we do at CSSU, otherwise ;-) | 14:59 |
| ShadowJK | nobody's complaining | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/twinklephone/message/4013 author: fakjujahuu | 15:00 |
| ShadowJK | it makes sense once you say tehe author's name out loud | 15:01 |
| kerio | c: | 15:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [general notice] If you could be bothered to contribute to maemo in this very particular way: Council Elections nomination period is closing today - I'd encourage you to run for a seat in maemo council! | 15:05 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: should i run for council? | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes!! | 15:05 |
| kerio | well too bad, i'm not gonna | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-( | 15:06 |
| kerio | mwahaha | 15:06 |
| kerio | i don't even know what the council is supposed to do | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's pretty much up for a fundamental redefinition right now | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd think it's basically useless now that we got hildon foundation, and probably should get discontinued / merged with HF | 15:07 |
| gry | what is hildon foundation? | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the non profit foundation that you were supposed to elect for, some 2 weeks ago. It's for taking responsibility regarding e.g continuation of servers for *.maemo.org, owning the domain name from Nokia, etc | 15:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty much a lot of legalese and organizational stuff that only a legal entity could do | 15:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | while council been established to play ambassador between community and Nokia, so now between community and HF, which doesn't make much sense in my book | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since, unlike Nokia, HF is a non profit organization and got elected by community just like council | 15:12 |
| Ken-Young | A new version of the orrery app for the N900 has been uploaded to the Extras Testing repository. This new version will display the two comets which may be bright in 2013. | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so council are community's proxies to negotiate between community and community's proxies | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Ken-Young: \o/ great | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I'd think you pretty much could help on that daunting task (community proxy) | 15:15 |
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| kerio | but i hate the community! | 15:21 |
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| Sicelo | kewl Ken-Young :) | 15:34 |
| gry | kerio, you sure? ;) | 15:34 |
| kerio | yes! | 15:34 |
| kerio | especially you! | 15:35 |
| gry | :) | 15:35 |
| Sicelo | btw, have you ever used jSolun? it's java-based.. but has some really nice features. it's one of those applications i miss on N900 | 15:37 |
| Sicelo | hey gry :P | 15:37 |
| gry | hello, Sicelo! | 15:38 |
| gry | and night :) | 15:38 |
| Sicelo | still have your N900? | 15:39 |
| Ken-Young | Sicelo, I had never heard of that program. I'll have to take a look at it. Thanks! | 15:39 |
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| * SpeedEvil goes to reinatall orrery | 15:44 | |
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| akls | <DocScrutinizer05> ((<kerio> also wtf, this is not #maemo-ssu)) no worries, some users wouldn't ever know about the awesome stuff we do at CSSU, otherwise ;-) | 15:56 |
| akls | wtf, there is some awesome stuff I don't know about? | 15:56 |
| kerio | akls: yep | 15:56 |
| kerio | i don't know if you know about them, though | 15:57 |
| akls | like what? | 15:57 |
| kerio | like CSSU | 15:57 |
| kerio | and CSSU-thumb | 15:57 |
| Skry | essential stuff | 15:58 |
| kerio | and a slower pulseaudio! | 15:58 |
| kerio | no, wait | 15:58 |
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| akls | oh, by the way | 16:00 |
| akls | about pulseaudio... | 16:00 |
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| akls | when listening music through cmus player music stops playing when I hit power button twice to lock the screen | 16:01 |
| akls | and it seems like with native player there's no such problem | 16:01 |
| akls | is it some problem with cmus process priority or what? | 16:01 |
| kerio | akls: probably the policy daemon | 16:01 |
| kerio | so... tough luck | 16:01 |
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| ShadowJK | it pauses for a moment with mplayer too | 16:02 |
| Skry | ShadowJK: is it ok to you if I distribute your charge21.sh which I modified to some extent in my Arch packages? | 16:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: as long as some (c) is kept I'd guess it's ok | 16:24 |
| Skry | ofc | 16:24 |
| Skry | oh my, the latest WTF from canonical, they'll be pushing out SDK for ubuntu | 16:28 |
| raccoon_ | Skry: SDK = ? are they releaseing their own toolchain or is it something ubuntu distro related? | 16:31 |
| raccoon_ | for distro development that is | 16:31 |
| Skry | apparently for "application development" | 16:33 |
| Skry | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTIxNjU | 16:33 |
| kerio | like... gcc? | 16:34 |
| Skry | probably enforcing some specific versions of compiler and libs | 16:35 |
| Skry | and ofc everything buntu-patched | 16:35 |
| raccoon_ | but WHY? | 16:36 |
| raccoon_ | ... | 16:36 |
| raccoon_ | they are breaking linux | 16:36 |
| Skry | been doing that for awhile | 16:36 |
| Skry | ms applenical | 16:37 |
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| jon_y | Skry: it better be running on Windows :) | 16:43 |
| jon_y | like android emulators | 16:43 |
| Skry | wouldnt surprise me :) | 16:43 |
| jon_y | heh, maybe it's really ubuntu in a vm image | 16:44 |
| jon_y | oh, and MSVC integration | 16:44 |
| jon_y | corporate drones love MSVC | 16:44 |
| Skry | yeah thats a must | 16:44 |
| jon_y | so, they build their "solutions" and upload the image to the vm | 16:45 |
| jon_y | sounds so complicated when written that way :) | 16:45 |
| ccssnet | fuck ubuntu | 16:46 |
| jon_y | ubuntu used to be nice, until they dissed all the standard stuff and doing things the MS way | 16:48 |
| kerio | indeed, fuck ubuntu | 16:48 |
| kerio | my favourite distro is mint, now :3 | 16:48 |
| Skry | well, if they want to take the android route so be it, good riddance. | 16:48 |
| kerio | for "user-friendly" things | 16:48 |
| * jon_y uses Debian | 16:48 | |
| Skry | erm, mint is ubuntu | 16:48 |
| jon_y | except without the stupid annoying UI, so one step above ubuntu | 16:49 |
| Skry | true | 16:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Based on is not "is" | 16:49 |
| Skry | please | 16:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just because they use Ubuntu repositories doesn't mean they're beholden to the same architecture decisions Ubuntu makes. | 16:49 |
| kerio | GeneralAntilles: it uses upstart, though | 16:49 |
| kerio | mint debian edition is probably better in that regard | 16:50 |
| jon_y | what is upstart? | 16:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've not really had issues with Upstart. | 16:50 |
| jon_y | what so different than the normal sysvinit? | 16:50 |
| kerio | jon_y: it's one step closer to systemd | 16:50 |
| Skry | totally forgot debian edition exists, well, that's approved :) | 16:51 |
| jon_y | sorry, I haven't been keeping up with all the startup systems | 16:51 |
| jon_y | so, sysvinit, upstart, systemd | 16:51 |
| jon_y | what is the difference between them? | 16:53 |
| Skry | anyways, mint is pretty usable, excellent beginner distro, hopefully they take some distance to ubuntu | 16:53 |
| freemangordon | hmm, PA with -O2 and -fno-fast-math seems to be at least as fast as stock | 16:54 |
| Skry | jon_y: sysvinit is the old monolithic beast that the new monolithic beast systemd is going to deprecate | 16:55 |
| jon_y | what does it do differently? | 16:55 |
| Skry | jon_y: pretty much everything | 16:55 |
| Skry | jon_y: ie. it does not have runlevels but targets which are similar concepts though | 16:56 |
| Skry | it also has socket based activation of services and stuff | 16:57 |
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| Skry | besides doing shit the non-traditional way, making some scary changes, when you get into it it's really great | 17:00 |
| Skry | obviously one can disagree and take it as an abomination, and I can understand why, but I can also see why it is being adopted so widely already | 17:01 |
| jon_y | ok, does it have the old runlevel-like functionality? | 17:01 |
| jon_y | eg, I want to shutdown networking capability temporary | 17:02 |
| Skry | yes, you can switch targets and select default targets | 17:02 |
| Skry | but if you want to shutdown network temporarily you dont need to switch targets, you just stop the service | 17:02 |
| jon_y | run levels are now known as targets? | 17:02 |
| Skry | so the basic functionally resembles sysvinit very much | 17:02 |
| Skry | well, you have targets like sound, graphical desktop and so on, which can depend on others and change accordingly | 17:03 |
| jon_y | interesting | 17:03 |
| Skry | ie. multiuser.target, graphical.target etc | 17:04 |
| Skry | you should read about it | 17:04 |
| jon_y | it's totally possible to up the graphical desktop without sound etc? | 17:04 |
| Skry | I'm not that good explaining anything :P | 17:04 |
| Skry | yes | 17:04 |
| jon_y | wikipedia has a really brief explanation on systemd | 17:04 |
| Skry | check systemd site, and this is also a good read https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd | 17:05 |
| kerio | freemangordon: what about PA with -O3 and -fno-fast-math? | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<raccoon_> they are breaking linux)) they did from first minute they hijacked it | 17:07 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you're just jealous of poettering's awesoem system architecturing skillz | 17:11 |
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| kerio | appropriately enough, poettering's blog is called "I'll Break Your Audio" | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, i'm jalous of his complete ignorance regarding situations where he can make himself a fool | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | his God-alike self-esteem | 17:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | what I'm definitely NOT jealous about are his actual skills | 17:13 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: I can't think of a way to benchmark it precisely | 17:14 |
| kerio | play song with known player | 17:15 |
| kerio | and for the love of god, *not mafw* | 17:15 |
| freemangordon | why not mafw? | 17:15 |
| kerio | try high-volume speaker too | 17:15 |
| kerio | because mafw sucks balls | 17:15 |
| freemangordon | how is that related to PA? | 17:15 |
| kerio | you want something that doesn't use a lot of cpu | 17:16 |
| freemangordon | kerio: I want to measure gow much CPU PA uses | 17:16 |
| freemangordon | *how | 17:16 |
| Skry | mplayer -ao pulse | 17:16 |
| Skry | top | 17:16 |
| Skry | ie | 17:16 |
| freemangordon | that is what I am doing | 17:16 |
| freemangordon | besides I use mafw | 17:16 |
| freemangordon | with frequency lokced to 250 | 17:16 |
| freemangordon | but PA CPU usage varies | 17:17 |
| freemangordon | any idea how to get only one process CPU usage and to write it to a file? | 17:17 |
| freemangordon | so I can put that later in a table, for comparison | 17:18 |
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| kerio | powertop, maybe? | 17:23 |
| freemangordon | top -d 1| grep -v grep | grep `pidof pulseaudio` | cut ... | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cat /proc/self/stat | 17:23 |
| freemangordon | self? | 17:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, <`pidof yourprocess`> | 17:24 |
| freemangordon | hmm, which column is CPU usage? | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you have to calculate the ratio of jiffies for that process to jiffies expired in total since last query | 17:25 |
| freemangordon | yeah :D | 17:26 |
| freemangordon | i'll stick with top | 17:26 |
| akls | and on ubuntu topic.. I've been using Lubuntu for a year or so and it's something a human being would expect from a linux distro | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: good luck with top -d 1 | 17:26 |
| freemangordon | why? | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | try it | 17:27 |
| freemangordon | it seems work | 17:27 |
| freemangordon | i've tried it | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never worked for me to pipe / redirect top output to anything | 17:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe for messybox top that's different | 17:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you meant top -n 1 | 17:29 |
| freemangordon | d should be for interval iirc | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which actually seems to somwhat work | 17:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway top output is ncurses, rather ugly and indigestible | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | top|less | 17:31 |
| freemangordon | I just need CPU usage percent with 1 s sampling rate | 17:31 |
| Skry | freemangordon: you could loop this ps -eo pid,user,%cpu,args --sort %cpu | grep pulseaudio | tail -n1 | awk '{print $3}' | awk -F \. '{print $1}' | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is a nice cmdline in itself ;-P | 17:31 |
| freemangordon | ok, have the results for O2 4.7, lets see how is stock | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, this would actually work, for procps, though not for busybox ps | 17:33 |
| Skry | ah, I always forget the busybox :S | 17:33 |
| Skry | fscking hate it | 17:34 |
| Skry | erm, dislike | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't say "I hate it" or somebody here will tell you you're silly as hating a software is impossible | 17:34 |
| Skry | ;) | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox | 17:36 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 17:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: btw many thanks for the nice ps options cmdline | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mad useful | 17:38 |
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| Skry | DocScrutinizer05: np | 17:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | what is awk -F \. '{print $1}' doing though? | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui it just prints the digits before decimal? | 17:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (btw I got procps on my iroN900 ;-D ) | 17:43 |
| Skry | DocScrutinizer05: matter of output formatting | 17:43 |
| Skry | if you want to see the .? you can omit that | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | already did | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Xorg 0 vs Xorg 0.2 | 17:44 |
| Skry | yeah | 17:44 |
| Skry | guess it would be more sane to round it though | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe freemangordon can use % with decimals | 17:45 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: but you have to uninstall the metapackage to install procps D: | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, so it's been THAT | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and installing stock camera-ui already had no problem then | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now I recall I wrote exactly that when nswering the question in CSSU tmo thread | 17:46 |
| kerio | no, no, the stock camera-ui is still problematic | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, if you say so | 17:47 |
| kerio | i do say so | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think the MP at large isproblematic | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and CSSU should get rid of it, sonner rather than later | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sooner* | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's locking in users | 17:48 |
| kerio | camera-ui (>= 1.1.29.2+0cssu13) | 17:48 |
| kerio | that's a dependency of the latest mp-fremantle-community-pr outside of thumb | 17:49 |
| kerio | (the thumby one depends on +0cssu14+thumb0) | 17:49 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: HAM has a way of enabling a "magic" package that upgrades everything | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm listening | 17:50 |
| kerio | no, it ends here :) | 17:50 |
| kerio | there's still no way to cherrypick updates for non-user packages | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | didn't help me out | 17:50 |
| kerio | unless you show all packages | 17:50 |
| freemangordon | hmm, does not look good | 17:52 |
| freemangordon | seems that thumb PA uses more CPU than stock | 17:52 |
| Skry | how much more? | 17:52 |
| kerio | wtf | 17:52 |
| kerio | why? | 17:52 |
| kerio | it makes no sense | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, thumb never claimed to be more CPU efficient, only more compact | 17:52 |
| freemangordon | well, what i did is to get 95 samples, for one and the same song | 17:53 |
| freemangordon | then substracted sample by sample and sum | 17:53 |
| freemangordon | the difference is 80.5 | 17:53 |
| freemangordon | ~80.5/94 | 17:54 |
| infobot | 0.856382978723 | 17:54 |
| kerio | 80.5 what? | 17:54 |
| freemangordon | kerio: read again | 17:54 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 does, scratches head | 17:55 | |
| kerio | i'm still missing the unit of measurement | 17:55 |
| freemangordon | SUM(thumb_cpu_usage(i)-stock_cpu_usage(i)), i=1-94 | 17:55 |
| kerio | WHAT'S THE UNIT OF MEASUREMENT | 17:56 |
| freemangordon | % | 17:56 |
| kerio | oic | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw a tricky method to calculate cpu usage of a process is to run a busy counting loop in another process and see how much it slows down | 17:56 |
| kerio | ...you summed percentages? :s | 17:56 |
| freemangordon | kerio: yes | 17:56 |
| freemangordon | and according to that -thumb uses .85 % more CPU per secon | 17:57 |
| freemangordon | *second | 17:57 |
| freemangordon | But I just don't understand why | 17:57 |
| freemangordon | :( | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 0.85% per second? wtf is that? an inflation magnitude? | 17:58 |
| freemangordon | going to try 4.7 without thumb | 17:58 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: see the formula above | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after 120s it will use 110$ of CPU? | 17:58 |
| kerio | freemangordon: how do we call the result, though? | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | % | 17:58 |
| kerio | +nonthumb0 | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | <freemangordon> and according to that -thumb uses .85 % more CPU per second | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm 35 years per minute old | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: more per second | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: i don;t understand your point | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wtf is % per second? | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | or better said you don;t understand what i did | 18:00 |
| freemangordon | cpu load | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 18:00 |
| freemangordon | no what? | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since when something is using 1% per second, it uses 3% after 3 s | 18:00 |
| freemangordon | thats an average for the period divided by the number of sample | 18:00 |
| freemangordon | *samples | 18:00 |
| freemangordon | or even the average of the error for the period | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your savings my give 3% per year of interest | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a process can hardly use % / s of CPU | 18:02 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I am not exactly famous with m English skills, that is why I hope you math skills are in place, so you can grok the above formula | 18:02 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: samples are taken every second | 18:03 |
| freemangordon | so if you sum them and divide by the number of samples you'll get an average CPU load per second | 18:04 |
| freemangordon | if "per" is not the correct english word I am pretty ok | 18:05 |
| freemangordon | but that does not change the math | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your average CPU usage for case A over 95 samples of 1s duration been 80.5%, for case B 94%. The *difference* are 13.5% | 18:06 |
| freemangordon | what? | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is an absolute factor of 0.856382978723 slowdown | 18:07 |
| freemangordon | it is not absolute, as the original unit is CPU load % | 18:08 |
| freemangordon | that is why unit is %/s | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the ratio between the two percentages though is absolute | 18:08 |
| freemangordon | it is not ratio | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-10-28 16:54:05] <freemangordon> ~80.5/94 | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ ratio | 18:08 |
| freemangordon | 94 is seconds | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ummm | 18:09 |
| freemangordon | and 80.5 in in % | 18:09 |
| freemangordon | *is in | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dividing % by seconds is BS | 18:09 |
| freemangordon | no, it is not, that is how you find the average fo a given period | 18:10 |
| freemangordon | the same as S=V.t :P | 18:10 |
| freemangordon | V=S/t is the average speed | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nonsense | 18:10 |
| freemangordon | yeah, sure | 18:11 |
| raccoon_ | freemangordon: the average for a given period is gotten by dividing the sum of all sampled values by the number of samples. | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't tell me you added PA CPU % of 94 samples and got 80.5 as result | 18:11 |
| freemangordon | exactky | 18:11 |
| freemangordon | exactly | 18:11 |
| raccoon_ | but % is not a real value | 18:12 |
| raccoon_ | oh sorry, my brain went out the window | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well then nevermind, since a absolute CPU usage of <1% by PA is negligible, and also highly unlikely | 18:12 |
| freemangordon | SUM(thumb_cpu_usage(i)-stock_cpu_usage(i)), i=1-94 | 18:12 |
| freemangordon | and the result of that is 80.5 | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 18:13 |
| freemangordon | and IIRC this is called error | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OMFG, obfuscated math formula contest | 18:13 |
| freemangordon | or sigma | 18:13 |
| raccoon_ | DocScrutinizer05: help him get it right then, rather than telling he's doing it wrong... | 18:14 |
| freemangordon | indeed | 18:14 |
| raccoon_ | (the formula syntax) | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, he's doing it "right", just completely weird | 18:14 |
| Skry | btw, I asked yesterday about what resampler pulse uses in maemo, didnt get the answers and still dont know what it uses but still.. pulseaudio 0.99.2 cpu usage according to top: trivial:~12%, speex-float-0:~33%, ffmpeg:~40% | 18:14 |
| raccoon_ | DocScrutinizer05: that might be, but saying it's weird/odd/wrong is not exactly helping | 18:14 |
| raccoon_ | :) | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and 94 is not seconds but samples, a basically unitless value | 18:15 |
| freemangordon | Skry: PA uses speex resampler , which is closed source | 18:15 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: it is in secconds if you have 94 samples taken for 94 seconds | 18:15 |
| raccoon_ | freemangordon: he meant that your formula is not telling what 94 is | 18:15 |
| raccoon_ | just that it should be 94 in that example | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I'd calculate average for CPU usage of thumb_cpu_usage(i) for i:1..94, then do same for stock_cpu_usage(i) | 18:16 |
| freemangordon | makes no difference | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then you got average CPU usage of case A and B, then you can compare the two | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, makes no differnece in math, but in legibility | 18:16 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: but it makes difference if you have to deal with large numbers, you ca get overflow ;) | 18:17 |
| Skry | freemangordon: whatwhat? is it some nokia hack version or what? I mean, speex is free. | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | modulo you'd probably notice that your 94 are not of unit 'seconds' if you'd do a well established simple average | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ack for overflow | 18:17 |
| freemangordon | Skry: no, it is BSD according to the bug report on bugs.maemo.org | 18:18 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: that is why it looks weird, it is just the way I am used to write the code | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: 94 is the number of samples, no matter if every sample is 1 or 33.8 seconds in duration | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so your result are % differnece, not %/s | 18:19 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: it matters if you want to know by what % is CPU load increased every second | 18:19 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yes | 18:19 |
| freemangordon | 18:00 <freemangordon> and 80.5 in in % | 18:19 |
| freemangordon | *is | 18:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, it's the sigma-difference for i from 1 to 95 | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you divide by 95 to get true average | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | Skry: there is an open bug to open the source of speex | 18:20 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: finally :P | 18:21 |
| Skry | freemangordon: http://downloads.xiph.org/releases/speex/speex-1.2rc1.tar.gz | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 95 is <number of samples you summed up> | 18:21 |
| Skry | ta-da | 18:21 |
| freemangordon | Skry: we have NEON-optimized resampler here | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seconds is not even showing up in hte whole equation | 18:22 |
| freemangordon | look in debian/changelog | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since i is a enum, not a seconds integer | 18:22 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: well, it could be said that way too, but i is seconds too, as the samples were taken every second | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't matter | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if your samples were 2 seconds long, the i still is 94 for 94 samples | 18:24 |
| freemangordon | so the functions could be f(t) as well | 18:24 |
| freemangordon | but I want to average over the time, not the number of samples | 18:24 |
| kerio | freemangordon: maybe the NEON resampler sucks | 18:24 |
| freemangordon | *over the number | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: alas that's not how a simple average works | 18:25 |
| Skry | freemangordon: libspeex/resample_neon.h | 18:25 |
| freemangordon | kerio: according to changelog it speeds the things a lot | 18:25 |
| freemangordon | Skry: in speex-dev? | 18:25 |
| Skry | yes, since 2011 | 18:26 |
| kerio | hahaha | 18:26 |
| freemangordon | upstream? | 18:26 |
| freemangordon | who is the copyright holder, Nokia? | 18:26 |
| Skry | patches are from jyri sarha | 18:27 |
| Skry | @ti.com | 18:27 |
| Skry | dont know of the upstream status but patches are in speex-dev ml and used by ubuntu for example | 18:28 |
| freemangordon | Skry: sounds too risky to put that in -thumb | 18:28 |
| Skry | mm, might be | 18:29 |
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| kerio | freemangordon: it's probably what nokia has, actually | 18:29 |
| Skry | i'll check the upstream status.. | 18:29 |
| kerio | anyway, gcc sucks at NEON | 18:29 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: that is exactly how simple average over the time works | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: if you'd want to do an integral average, you have to multiply each sample value by the sample duration (in seconds) and then divide the whole thing by the sigma(duration) over all samples. (sigma((thumb_cpu_usage(sample-i) * thumb_sample_duration(sample-i)) / sigma(thumb_sample_duration(sample-i)) | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you get %*s/s = % | 18:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the fact that all your thumb_sample_duration(sample-i) = 1second doesn't change the formula, so doesn't result in %/s | 18:31 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: the way I did it fits for the purpose: thumb uses more CPU than stock | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, your calculation been correct, the units though were not | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | meh | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | it is correct too, as if it is the average for the period, it could be average for 1 second period | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the difference is actually <1% if your calculation actually been accurate | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus negligible | 18:36 |
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| freemangordon | well, it was excel to do the math | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, below tolerance | 18:36 |
| freemangordon | well, I was expecting -thumb to behave much better than stock | 18:37 |
| freemangordon | maybe I am missing something | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in fact they behave more identical than anybody would expect for two runs of very same software | 18:37 |
| kerio | freemangordon: is this the thumby? | 18:37 |
| kerio | what about the army? | 18:37 |
| freemangordon | though if we have FP math all the way... | 18:38 |
| freemangordon | kerio: going to try it | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: join the army, man! | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: honestly, compare arm to arm (two consecutive runs of same binary) and you'll likely find larger difference than this 0.8% | 18:41 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the point is that they shouldn't be the same | 18:42 |
| freemangordon | yes | 18:42 |
| kerio | the thumb one should pwn the stock one | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: wasn't that you I did some hardfp vs softfp simple test binary runs, and we noticed effectively 0 difference between both? | 18:42 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no | 18:43 |
| Skry | not in upstream, but learned that speex has C64x support, whoa. | 18:43 |
| freemangordon | though, if most of the stuff is done in FP, there will be no difference | 18:43 |
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| freemangordon | Skry: yeah, speexdsp is closed source too in maemo5 :D:D:D | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I don't agree on the assumption that thumb always has to be faster than arm, since it is meant to yield compact code, not faster execution (the faster execution is a side effect under certain narrow preconditions). What I agree though is that we should see way larger differences, in whatever direction | 18:45 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: less of a thumb matter, more of a gcc4.2 vs gcc4.7-linaro matter | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the smaller the program, the smaller the opportunities for compiler to optimize | 18:46 |
| kerio | fmg: arm pls | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one very interesting detail would be size of resulting binary | 18:47 |
| freemangordon | ok, build is ready, lets see | 18:47 |
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| kerio | by the way, are you sure you're using the correct pulseaudio? | 18:48 |
| freemangordon | the one on CSSU gitorious | 18:48 |
| freemangordon | *in | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I like to implement any arbitrary marker into the stuff under test, so I can tell for sure it's been this one binary that got used in the test | 18:49 |
| kerio | no, i mean, are you sure the pulseaudio you're running is the recompiled one? :) | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or what kerio says ^^^ | 18:50 |
| freemangordon | kerio: well stop/start pulseaudio should do the trick I think | 18:51 |
| kerio | i'd still reboot to be sure :3 | 18:51 |
| freemangordon | lets see what arm build will give as results | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a printf to stdout, listing e.g the number of processed samples/frames is usually just fine | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or stderr | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in "destructor" | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or just before exit | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or even to /dev/console or whatever | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | instead of to stderr | 18:54 |
| freemangordon | hmm, i'll reboot and retry, just for sure | 18:54 |
| freemangordon | as now 80.5 become 33 :D | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: if you had a welcome msg printf at beginning of your new code, and a "processed %d samples. This was Version th-33" at exit, you'd notice immediately what's going on | 18:55 |
| freemangordon | there is no "my new code" I am just doing dpkg-buildpackage | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes I'm aware of that | 18:56 |
| freemangordon | and changing flags in debian/rules | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too lazy to place "your new code" into ticks | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could pass the verson string via compile parameter -D | 18:57 |
| freemangordon | -rwx------ 1 root root 72784 Oct 28 2012 /usr/bin/pulseaudio | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do a logger printout to syslog | 18:58 |
| freemangordon | still the same after the reboot | 18:58 |
| freemangordon | could it be that PA does not actually do much job? | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 72768 here | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, the whole stuff is piped thru gstreamer afaik, by mafw | 19:01 |
| freemangordon | so we have only 16 bytes difference between 4.2.1 and 4.7.2? WTF? | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls -l /usr/bin/pulseaudio | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rwx------ 1 root root 72768 2010-06-14 15:32 /usr/bin/pulseaudio | 19:03 |
| freemangordon | going to try -Os | 19:03 |
| kerio | hahaha | 19:03 |
| kerio | freemangordon: this is the ARM one, right? | 19:03 |
| freemangordon | yep | 19:04 |
| kerio | so... compiling in ARM gave us a giant reduction? | 19:04 |
| freemangordon | yeah, 16 bytes more | 19:04 |
| freemangordon | :D:D:D | 19:04 |
| kerio | ok, gimme that package :£ | 19:04 |
| kerio | :3 | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: 795 pulse 12 -8 83192 6912 2424 S 21.6 2.8 5:16.93 pulseaudio | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 21.6% | 19:07 |
| freemangordon | what is it? | 19:07 |
| freemangordon | total CPU usage? | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | top output for >> while play-sound /home/opt/usr/share/osso-lmarbles/sounds/alarm.wav; do :; done << | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, CPU usage | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no other process used significant CPU | 19:09 |
| kerio | i wonder... what's the CPU usage when on speaker and when using BT headphones? | 19:09 |
| freemangordon | hmm, makes sense to check that | 19:12 |
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| freemangordon | hmm, -Os produced binary which is about 68k ARM build, but not much of a difference in CPU usage | 19:29 |
| freemangordon | so it seems it is not PA itself that uses the CPU , most probably it is the closed packages that do :( | 19:30 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: connecting BT HF drops CPU usage by a couple of % | 19:39 |
| freemangordon | 5-10 | 19:39 |
| kerio | hehe | 19:39 |
| kerio | hm, is that HFP/HSP or A2DP? | 19:39 |
| freemangordon | HFP | 19:39 |
| kerio | sucks | 19:39 |
| freemangordon | actually it streams to my PC, but I am almost sure it is not a2dp | 19:40 |
| kerio | is it stereo? | 19:40 |
| kerio | actually, easier question: | 19:40 |
| freemangordon | hmm, it is a2dp | 19:40 |
| kerio | does it sound like shit? | 19:40 |
| freemangordon | no, it sound ok | 19:40 |
| freemangordon | *sounds | 19:40 |
| kerio | then it's a2dp :) | 19:40 |
| freemangordon | yes it is, i checked | 19:40 |
| kerio | stupid lowpass filter | 19:40 |
| freemangordon | hmm, actually lowpass filter seems to take only 5 or so % , which is not that much | 19:41 |
| freemangordon | on 250 is that | 19:41 |
| freemangordon | it seems it is the resampler to eat the cpu | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | or better said I am out of ideas :D | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | though in upstream PA there are some NEON optimizations, maybe I can backport them to check if it will be better | 19:44 |
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| ShadowJK | Skry; sure | 19:51 |
| kerio | freemangordon: anyway, the arm-compiled PA is faster than the stock one, right? | 19:51 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: no | 19:59 |
| freemangordon | it is the same | 20:00 |
| kerio | dafuq | 20:00 |
| freemangordon | BTW changing resample-method = trivial drops CPU usage by 10% | 20:00 |
| kerio | what had the giant advantage then? | 20:00 |
| freemangordon | in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf | 20:00 |
| kerio | freemangordon: that's cheating | 20:00 |
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| freemangordon | I know | 20:01 |
| freemangordon | But at least gives clue who is using the CPU | 20:02 |
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| kerio | freemangordon: it's audibly worsse | 20:02 |
| kerio | *worse | 20:02 |
| kerio | much, much worse | 20:02 |
| kerio | i wonder why it needs to resample to A2DP | 20:03 |
| kerio | hrmpf, is there a reason 48kHz is the default samplerate? | 20:04 |
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| kerio | setting it to 44.1kHz has no adverse effects, it seems | 20:09 |
| kerio | hm, why are we using pulseaudio 0.9 when the current release is 2.1? | 20:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | because nobody dared to update stuff since maemo5 birth? | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | becuae the closed blobs wouldn't fit into any newer version, since we can't compile them? | 20:19 |
| MrPingu | i wonder if it's really thumb that's giving the benefits or just the updated gcc 4.7.2-linaro (no proof though) | 20:20 |
| merlin1991 | kerio: because the closed plugins depend on the internal pulse api and this you can't pimp its version | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or that ;-) | 20:20 |
| kerio | why do we need the closed plugins? | 20:20 |
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| kerio | MrPingu: there are no benefits! | 20:20 |
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| freemangordon | merlin1991: though we can backport what worths, i saw some NEON optimized conversion routines | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because we love our speakers and the decent phone audio quality | 20:20 |
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| Skry | ShadowJK: ok thanks, that's a great script. I added led control, logging to syslog, isp1704 charger detection and adapted it to be used with udev. Does the job quite nicely. | 20:21 |
| MrPingu | Kerio: With benefits I mean the smaller binarysize ;) | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though it seems to me cmtspeech is actually open, just XPROT is closed | 20:22 |
| freemangordon | http://www.mail-archive.com/pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org/msg04777.html | 20:22 |
| kerio | what's XPROT? | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | speaker protection | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: isp1704 charger detection might mess up things as soon as you're running it with established USB session | 20:23 |
| kerio | which can be done *in hardware* via the equalizer | 20:23 |
| freemangordon | going to try to backport that | 20:23 |
| freemangordon | "main" CSSU will benefit from it too if I succeed | 20:24 |
| Skry | DocScrutinizer05: it only does detecting if charger is present and gets charger type for logging purposes | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 20:24 |
| Skry | kerio: nemo has 2.1, modules from meego/mer are ported, not sure if they have call audio with it yet. | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: sorry when "charger detection runs only when charger detected" doesn't make sense to me | 20:25 |
| MrPingu | Kerio: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1285892&postcount=971 | 20:27 |
| MrPingu | xD | 20:27 |
| Skry | DocScrutinizer05: uhm? udev launches script if it detects power supply event, script checks if isp1407 reports charger and continues accordingly. Perhaps it should be done more properly via more exact udev rule but i have no interest digging into udev insides more than I already know. | 20:30 |
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| kerio | <theRaisse> we sold the n9, then he left the n950 on a train | 20:47 |
| kerio | WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK | 20:47 |
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| invariant | How can I configure which accounts or messages lead to vibration? | 21:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | invariant: I don't think there's such config option | 21:08 |
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| invariant | What is the best irc client for n900 which allows setting port number? | 21:18 |
| gry | quassel2go | 21:19 |
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| kerio | invariant: xchat | 21:20 |
| invariant | Installation corrupted. Yes/no | 21:21 |
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| invariant | Interesting message | 21:21 |
| invariant | What should I pick? | 21:21 |
| gry | 'no'? | 21:22 |
| kerio | invariant: installation of what? | 21:22 |
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| invariant | Qutim | 21:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen qwazix | 22:00 |
| infobot | qwazix <~qwazix@athedsl-353742.home.otenet.gr> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 7h 49m 10s ago, saying: 'who's got a Nexus 7? Native ubuntu on it since yesterday, with hildon on it could be almost maemo.'. | 22:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | WTF, Ducky died? | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Dr. Mellard :-o | 22:16 |
| kerio | who died? :o | 22:17 |
| Cor-Ai | DocScrutinizer05: your fucking kiding me?! | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>While walking on a beach, Ducky suffered a heart attack in the season nine finale, "Till Death Do Us Part", after hearing about the bomb blast at NCIS headquarters and then is seen lying, motionless on a beach. In "Extreme Prejudice", it is shown that he's alive and receiving treatment thanks to Jimmy Palmer finding him. << | 22:19 |
| Cor-Ai | .... | 22:20 |
| Cor-Ai | thats old news :p | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not here ;-) | 22:20 |
| Cor-Ai | haha :p | 22:21 |
| Cor-Ai | thats last sesson! | 22:21 |
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| Cor-Ai | I thought you spoil :p | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, i'm not a partypooper | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the bad news: next Sunday evening I won't watch next episode of NCIS | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since I bet they introduce another 3 months minimum pause before starting next (10th) season | 22:27 |
| Cor-Ai | hmm.. that sux.. :/ | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | judging by rating, the 10th season must be even better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCIS_(TV_series)#Ratings | 22:29 |
| Cor-Ai | haha nice :D | 22:31 |
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| Cor-Ai | think we are at s09 e05 or something in swe :p | 22:35 |
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