IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2012-10-18

Sicelo	Pali.. \m/ \m/	00:02
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kerio	Pali: oh ok, dne	00:02
kerio	*done	00:02
Sicelo	works perfectly. thakns :)	00:02
kerio	start softupd, flasher --local -k combined.bin -f	00:02
kerio	:D	00:02
Pali	kerio, generate fiasco image	00:02
kerio	Pali: pff, lame	00:02
Pali	because that will remove version from CAL	00:02
Sicelo	it only fails with my PK50, otherwise Debian, Nemo, & Maemo boot fine	00:02
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Pali	kerio, you will have unknown in osso-product-info after reboot	00:03
Pali	Sicelo, is stock pr1.3 working?	00:03
kerio	Pali: nah, i set it again :)	00:03
kerio	welp, here goes nothing	00:03
kerio	Pali: btw, u-boot-update-bootmenu didn't use the version string from the kernel :c	00:04
Sicelo	yes pali. only pk50 has't worked for me yet. but stock & nemo's kernels work well :)	00:04
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Pali	Sicelo, update kernel-power :-)	00:04
Sicelo	hmm, so this uboot won't work with KP50?	00:05
kerio	Pali: yay, it's booting with the slider closed	00:05
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Pali	Sicelo, it should	00:05
Pali	but maybe you have something wrong with kp instalation	00:05
kerio	Pali: what if i delete bootmenu.scr?	00:05
Pali	regenerate it	00:05
Pali	u-boot-update-bootmenu	00:06
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kerio	no, i mean	00:06
kerio	is it required'	00:06
kerio	?	00:06
kerio	do i get a generic menu if i don't have it	00:06
kerio	?	00:06
Pali	kerio, if u-boot not find it, then you will have default bootmenu	00:06
Pali	default bootmenu contains: attached kernel, emmc boot, sd boot, console	00:06
kerio	are any of those except "attached kernel" actually useful?	00:07
Pali	emmc and sd boot trying to find first uImage or boot.scr script on some fat32 ext2/3 or ext4 partition	00:07
Sicelo	btw, i notice that /lib/modules/current still points to 2.6.28.10-power50 even though i'm on omap1.	00:07
Pali	Sicelo, kernel-power patching /sbin/preinit, so current symlink is ignored	00:08
Sicelo	kewl	00:09
kerio	Pali: hmm, maybe it's because i called my zImage "zImage" instead of "zImage-2.6.28.10-power52"	00:09
Pali	modprobe detecting module directory	00:09
Pali	kerio, ah, you need to run u-boot-update-bootmenu as root	00:09
kerio	Pali: ...ooooh	00:09
Pali	if you want to detect name in /dev/mtd	00:10
Pali	user has no read access to /dev/mtd*	00:10
kerio	yep, it worked now :)	00:10
kerio	still, should the image name be more than "zImage"?	00:10
Sicelo	i suspect my issue with KP50 is a bad *.item file.. Pali, what cmd_line should i append?	00:10
Pali	kerio, it does not depends on name	00:10
kerio	Pali: i know, but it feels... untidy	00:11
Pali	Sicelo, no cmdline	00:11
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Sicelo	brb	00:11
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kerio	Pali: btw, if the slider is closed the default action is still to boot the attached kernel, right?	00:13
Pali	kerio, no	00:13
Pali	default is to boot kernel configured by default	00:13
kerio	in bootmenu.scr? i see	00:13
Pali	and if you not configured any default kernel, then it is attached	00:13
Pali	kerio, see first post in u-boot thread	00:13
Pali	there is written how to change default bootmenu entry	00:14
kerio	so it's still kinda unsafe to bundle uboot with kernel-power...	00:14
kerio	>:D	00:14
Sicelo	worked like a charm. ;)	00:14
Sicelo	i don't know if this is a 'bug' -- but my N900 loses time each boot now :-/	00:15
Sicelo	does it happen to you kerio?	00:15
SpeedEvil	you mean if you pull the battery?	00:17
kerio	...boy, i hope not	00:17
teotwaki	Mohammad-: an SGS3?	00:17
kerio	or this backup is going to be st00pid	00:17
Sicelo	not pulling battery out. but a 'normal' reboot	00:17
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kerio	Sicelo: rebooting quickly can sometimes cause that	00:21
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DocScrutinizer05	when renoot causes losing seconds, then there's a fat bug in some initscript	00:24
DocScrutinizer05	reboot*	00:24
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: i was thinking of some extreme condition setting the "welp, clock's botched" bit	00:25
DocScrutinizer05	I'd not be surprised to find Nokia was silly enough to write systime to hwclock on shutdown	00:25
kerio	when should they write it?	00:26
DocScrutinizer05	??? you're kidding?	00:26
ShadowJK	it's typical to write it to hwclock on shutdown in all linux distro :)	00:26
DocScrutinizer05	hwclock is legit to write only when some higher stratum is adjusting your local time	00:26
DocScrutinizer05	same moment	00:26
kerio	oic	00:27
DocScrutinizer05	ShadowJK: not on any of my boxes	00:27
DocScrutinizer05	and on suse you at least can disable that idiocy with a single sysconfig parameter	00:28
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DocScrutinizer05	nowadays kernel is in 11min mode usually anyways	00:28
kerio	11min mode?	00:29
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DocScrutinizer05	kerio: man hwclock\|less "+/Automatic Hardware Clock Synchronization By the Kernel"	00:37
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DocScrutinizer05	>> This mode (we'll call it "11 minute mode") is off until something turns it on. The ntp daemon xntpd is one thing that turns it on. <<	00:38
DocScrutinizer05	I bitched against that idiocy to set a usually rather accurate hwclock by a often completely random sysclock like 10 years ago, and nobody argued against it	00:42
DocScrutinizer05	suse fixed their hwclock to obey euid rather than uid, so you could set +suid hwclock, after I asked them if they lost their mind to tell me "you are not root!" when I called a +s hwclock.	00:44
DocScrutinizer05	and they included a simple way to disable this abomination that sets hwclock to a usually late systemclock on shutdown	00:44
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DocScrutinizer05	anyway, as mentioned above, nowadays everybody is 24/7-online and running ntpd	00:46
Pali	kerio, Sicelo is uboot working without problem?	00:46
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kerio	Pali: i booted thrice, once with kb slider closed and twice with it open	00:47
kerio	i'm using kp52 attached to the latest uboot	00:47
Pali	ok	00:47
Pali	I wait until test it more people	00:47
Pali	but it is now good candicate for extras-devel/testing	00:48
kerio	and btw, i didn't test u-boot-flasher's packaging	00:48
kerio	i flashed manually	00:48
kerio	LIKE A MAN	00:48
Pali	ok	00:48
Sicelo	Pali: yes. u-boot working perfectly :)	00:49
kerio	but i suppose it's the same as any other flasher, isn't it	00:49
kerio	flash .fiasco image in /boot, rm it	00:49
Pali	it calling fiasco-image-update	00:49
Pali	same what kernel-power-flasher	00:49
jacekowski	i'm fed up with all those touchphones	00:50
Pali	kerio, btw do you know something about flow in networks (graphs)?	00:51
jacekowski	non responsive buttons + changing position depending on rotation	00:51
jacekowski	and fact that you have to look at the screen to find the button	00:51
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* ShadowJK unfortunately can accurately hit the "stop" buttom for alarm clock without looking		00:53
jacekowski	i can't	00:54
jacekowski	that thing rotates	00:54
jacekowski	and it's like almost random	00:54
DocScrutinizer05	yeah	00:54
DocScrutinizer05	vkbd BWAHAHA	00:54
jacekowski	my next phone will not have a touchscreen	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	I'm already frowning at N950 kbd, for missing tactile feedback of key positions	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	there's only _one_ kbd I ever seen to be inferior: eten Glofiish M800	00:56
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Pali	ShadowJK, yes hit stop button on alarm is very very usefull :-)	00:57
DocScrutinizer05	ther's been literally nuttin to tell you where one keycap ends and other begins, unless you press down one of the keys so you could feel the 'step' to the rest of friggin keyboard plane	00:57
ShadowJK	jacekowski, I think you'd appreciate the MultiSIM service you could get here before	00:58
ShadowJK	(I still have it, the didn't kick anyone off it)	00:58
ShadowJK	You can have 5 sim cards with same phone number	00:58
ShadowJK	Every device rings when someone calls	00:59
ShadowJK	So you can have smartphone that's not good for phone, and phone that's not good for internets	00:59
DocScrutinizer05	awesome	00:59
DocScrutinizer05	but how's that related to touchscreen?	01:00
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ShadowJK	When people call me in the morning and I'm groggy and can't even focus eyes I reach for the non-touch phone, not my n900 :)	01:00
DocScrutinizer05	aaah	01:01
kerio	why do people call you?	01:01
kerio	i'd work on solving that	01:01
ShadowJK	My definition of "morning" is very vague	01:02
ShadowJK	and variable	01:02
ShadowJK	;)	01:02
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SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: found a wierd mobile virtual operator in the UK.	01:03
SpeedEvil	you can get a sim with no number, that hooks up to your sip server	01:03
ShadowJK	Mine's a virtual operator too, around 2004 or so you could even click in the web interface and choose which physical network you wanted to be on :) But then they got bought out by one of the physical networks they were roaming on :(	01:03
kerio	...cool	01:03
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DocScrutinizer05	[PUBLIC NOTICE] don't forget to vote for hildon foundation board. Last chance!	01:08
kerio	oh right	01:09
kerio	how do i vote?	01:09
GeneralAntilles	Do we get a sticker?	01:10
kerio	DocScrutinizer for president!	01:10
ShadowJK	what's the sticker for?	01:10
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: I'm not running for board	01:11
kerio	aww :c	01:11
DocScrutinizer05	indeed	01:13
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GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, http://www.rocketxl.com/launchpad/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/i-voted-sticker.gif	01:17
GeneralAntilles	Or a more useful illustration: http://davefordunedin.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tagsgf-election-sticker-i-voted-stocksdale.jpg	01:17
DocScrutinizer05	hi GeneralAntilles, long time no see	01:18
ShadowJK	That reminds me	01:19
GeneralAntilles	Hey-oh.	01:19
DocScrutinizer05	GeneralAntilles: you would've earned a t-shirt, but only for passive vote ;-)	01:19
GeneralAntilles	Free shirt! Free shirt!	01:20
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* DocScrutinizer05 prints a t-shirt for himself: "I stood for 2012-Q4 elections and survived it"		01:20
GeneralAntilles	I still want a maemo.org ballcap	01:21
ShadowJK	Voting statistics in parliamental elections a dozen or so years back was so detailed, that for the village I live in there was 1 who voted Communist, year after yaer there was 1 vote for communists, and people had already "decided" who it was that was voting commie. When that suspected commie died, however, next election there was still oen person voting for commies, and it made people sad because they had been unnecessarily too mean to the deceased person	01:21
GeneralAntilles	Creepy statistics	01:21
DocScrutinizer05	hahahaha	01:22
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DocScrutinizer05	I'll miss Romney and Obama on my council vote ballot though	01:24
DocScrutinizer05	could somebody dissect "davefordunedin" for me, please?	01:27
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Woody14619a	Thanks for the reminder to all Doc. :)	01:28
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Woody14619a	Also, FWIW: Please don't vote for me. :)	01:29
Woody14619a	.oO(And what's up with all the net drops I've been getting? :P )	01:30
DocScrutinizer05	Woody14619a: how's about making GeneralAntilles happy and hand out cloak stickers "maemo/community/voter" to everybody who drops by and tells the number of digits of his vote token?	01:30
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GeneralAntilles	Haha	01:30
Woody14619a	Had I the power to affect cloacks... But I do not. ;)	01:30
GeneralAntilles	Make the Freenode staff do more work!	01:30
Woody14619a	(Nor would I want it... frankly.	01:30
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, need X-Fade.	01:31
DocScrutinizer05	freenode staff will happily apply cloaks, even lists of hundereds. They have scripts for that	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	but we need GC for that, yeah	01:32
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DocScrutinizer05	I pushed X-Fade to grant +F (and co-GC) to GeneralAntilles, just in case he gets hit by a bus... Though he seemed not averse, the net result seems zarro	01:34
GeneralAntilles	Meh	01:35
GeneralAntilles	Meeehhh	01:35
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Woody14619a	It's on the list-o-stuff to ask for when/if the foundation gets the go to aquire from Nokia/Nemien. (Assuming we don't stay w/ them... Maybe even if we do?)	01:36
DocScrutinizer05	sure thing	01:36
DocScrutinizer05	though that's not exactly a .... hmmm, nmaybe it is	01:36
DocScrutinizer05	GC is the one entity to communicate between brand owner and freenode	01:37
DocScrutinizer05	brand owner been Nokia so far	01:37
DocScrutinizer05	+F is a completely different story, actually	01:38
Woody14619a	Right... Not sure where/if that's going to transfer. And yes, +F is different.	01:38
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DocScrutinizer05	a very interesting question: will Nokia drop the (TM) "maemo" and grant board to "own" it?	01:40
DocScrutinizer05	probably not without quite some paperwork that's 100 times more than bylaws	01:41
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DocScrutinizer05	"no commercial usage", "no disrespect of Nokia's interests and reputation" etc pp yaggediyagg	01:42
Woody14619a	Well, the bylaws aren't what would bind the entity to the usage of the TM, if Nokia did that. The legal document they'd sign would be the binding thing.	01:43
Woody14619a	But yeah, it they did, I'm sure there would be some type of agreement involved. And the Board being a legal entity can sign said documents, where Council could not.	01:43
DocScrutinizer05	Nokia might establish board as proxy to hanfle maemo TM in lieu of Nokia themselves	01:44
DocScrutinizer05	handle*	01:44
Woody14619a	Will that happen? Anyone's guess. I'd be happy if we get the rights to the sever data for Maemo.org at this point.	01:44
jacekowski	well, emm	01:45
jacekowski	what is using hildon at the moment	01:45
jacekowski	n900	01:45
jacekowski	anything else?	01:45
Woody14619a	And the right to redist the Nokia blobs on our own repos as is.	01:45
Woody14619a	Anything beyond that will be pure bonus IMHO.	01:45
DocScrutinizer05	jacekowski: hildon been used in NITs since ... maemo	01:45
DocScrutinizer05	or longer even	01:46
jacekowski	yeah, no currently made devices	01:46
jacekowski	so hildon is pretty much dead	01:46
jacekowski	why would nokia care about it	01:46
DocScrutinizer05	as is maemo	01:46
jacekowski	exactly	01:46
Woody14619a	Because it does have some value still... (otherwise why would we want it?)	01:46
jacekowski	userbase is shrinking fast	01:46
Woody14619a	And because it also holds the potential for littigation if handled inappropriatly....	01:47
DocScrutinizer05	basic rule: nobody in business gives away a TradeMark just for fun and to clean up their file stash	01:47
Woody14619a	The latter being the more likely reason it wasn't just open-sourced when it went EOL.	01:47
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DocScrutinizer05	Woody14619a: opensourcing formerly closed stuff is a high-workload issue in industry, since they need to check for all that friggin legalese	01:49
Woody14619a	yup	01:49
Woody14619a	again, liability to litigation...	01:50
DocScrutinizer05	yiu have no idea what it cost me to get glamo schematics into http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/schematics/GTA02/Schematics_Freerunner-GTA02_A5-A7cumulative_public_RC0.pdf	01:51
Woody14619a	That's a word I never want to hear again.... glamo. :P	01:52
DocScrutinizer05	since that cheesy gfx-accel chip came with a NDA you had to sign in blood, and it didn't help at all when the company not even existed anymore when the schematics were published	01:52
Woody14619a	FWIW, there's been another release of the bylaws, and will probably be one more in a few. Small but important changes.	01:53
Woody14619a	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1281896&postcount=104	01:53
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DocScrutinizer05	WTF can I disable that KDE idiocy to shrink a maximized window when I click+pull in titlebar, menubar, any random other location of window?	02:23
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DocScrutinizer05	drives me nuts! >:-(	02:24
DocScrutinizer05	I bet some idiot implemented that as a feature	02:26
DocScrutinizer05	don't see this in KDE4.3.5	02:26
DocScrutinizer05	KDE4.7.2 really worse than 4.3.5, incredible	02:27
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Luke-Jr	DocScrutinizer05: KDE 4.8.5 has no such behaviour, nor do I recall seeing it in any older version	05:09
Luke-Jr	at least not by default (or by upgrade?)	05:10
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ShadowJK	by "shrink" he probably means same action as un-maximizing	05:12
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Skry	isnt it quite logical to unmaximize window if you try to move it?	06:19
Skry	anyways, in 4.9.2, system settings -> window behaviour	06:22
Skry	titlebar and window actions	06:22
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DocScrutinizer05	the point is that I don't try to move window, when I click and drag into e.g. Komversation's /topic text. While it works for text in between, it unmaximizes window when I try to start highlightinh shprtly left of first word	06:57
DocScrutinizer05	highlighting shortly left*	06:58
DocScrutinizer05	anyway thanls :-)	06:58
DocScrutinizer05	alas no friggin option for that in 4.7.2 (or I didn't see it)	07:07
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Skry	mm, never seen such behavior, but sometimes kde behaves funny when you have old enough configurations for it	07:12
Snafu777	anyone interested in ngrep for the n900?	07:12
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GGon	hi	10:29
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GGon	know this may sound rathe dumb... but are there any lte symbian phones? :)	10:29
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deepy	Why do you want LTE? it's a battery drainer!	10:35
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GGon	speed?	10:50
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deepy	What good is that when you're out of battery?	10:54
Lava_Croft	i dont think Nokia has any hardware suppliers that supply LTE stuff	10:55
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DocScrutinizer51	Nokia has STE	13:06
DocScrutinizer51	google NovaThor	13:06
DocScrutinizer51	LTE is less of a battery hog than UMTS	13:07
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jaska	but umts sounds like a cheap bass speaker	13:07
jaska	umts umts umts umts	13:07
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer51: where you live it is just BS (LTE)	14:20
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DocScrutinizer51	chem\|st: hmm?	16:13
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer51: LTE in germany is nuts atm	16:23
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Pali	here are binaries in maemo which using libbmeipc: http://pastebin.com/Z2K1npJP	16:28
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Pali	here are functions from libbmeipc: http://pastebin.com/Ye0ND5yn	16:33
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Pali	and here are for each libbmeipc function list of libraries which using it: http://pastebin.com/80XD55er	16:38
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Pali	so only one relevant closed libary usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/module-nokia-voice.so using libbmeipc (functions: bme_connect, bme_disconnect, bme_read, bme_write)	17:01
Pali	testserver is running only in LOCAL or TEST mode (and I think this SW is used by phoenix for calibration)	17:02
Pali	libthermalobject_surface is open source	17:02
Pali	and hald-addon-bme was rewritten	17:02
Pali	freemangordon, see ^^^^	17:03
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GeneralAntilles	teotwaki, you've alerted Jolla. :P	17:14
teotwaki	GeneralAntilles: I know.	17:14
teotwaki	Though, my statement still stands: It's vapourware.	17:14
GeneralAntilles	What makes you say vaporware?	17:14
GeneralAntilles	Aside from the obvious.	17:14
teotwaki	well, at the moment, they don't sell anything, just dreams.	17:14
teotwaki	And in my opinion, they should've stfu and kept things a bit more quiet that how vocal they've been	17:15
flux	teotwaki, so, basically, any announcement of product not immediately available is vaporware?	17:15
teotwaki	they're going to lose the traction before getting traction ever even mattered.	17:15
GeneralAntilles	Well, platform reveal is next month.	17:15
GeneralAntilles	Hardware announcement is in December.	17:15
teotwaki	flux: by definition, yes.	17:15
flux	teotwaki, well, it's not a very good definition. I don't think it used to mean that.	17:16
flux	how long has jolla been visible anyway?	17:16
teotwaki	"The term also generally applies to a product that is announced months or years before its release, and for which public development details are lacking."	17:16
teotwaki	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware	17:16
teotwaki	Check the page edits, I didn't just add that quickly to support my statement	17:17
flux	teotwaki, yes, it's a matter of scale. but how long has it been, really?	17:17
GeneralAntilles	Well, you can look at the core stuff in Mer.	17:17
teotwaki	flux: 6 months? A year?	17:18
teotwaki	I'm actually asking, I don't have a clue	17:18
teotwaki	GeneralAntilles: remember the project I nagged you about?	17:19
GeneralAntilles	teotwaki, vaguely	17:20
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teotwaki	GeneralAntilles: are you familiar with the words introspection and reflection?	17:20
GeneralAntilles	July	17:21
akls	I have a problem with easy debian. If I run "apt-get upgrade" it starts updating and everything is ok, but after 15 minutes it hangs and then reboots. what's wrong?	17:21
GeneralAntilles	teotwaki, from a philosophical context?	17:21
teotwaki	GeneralAntilles: in programming languages...	17:22
GeneralAntilles	Less so.	17:22
teotwaki	bleh	17:23
teotwaki	how the hell did you get your degree?	17:23
GeneralAntilles	I haven't yet. :P	17:23
teotwaki	anyway, here's an example of reflection used in mah project: https://github.com/teotwaki/firestarter/blob/db-layer/src/modules/examples/persistance/persistance.cpp	17:23
teotwaki	don't mind the misspelled "persistance", I got carried away with a's when I created the examples directory :	17:25
Sicelo	akls: too much work for your 600MHz ARM processor, and it's limited ram. why don't you do it by parts?	17:26
teotwaki	Sicelo: what a load of bollocks is that	17:26
akls	Sicelo, alright. how can I do it in parts?	17:26
GeneralAntilles	teotwaki, OK, so how does this relate to Jolla being vapor?	17:26
akls	any easy way?	17:26
teotwaki	GeneralAntilles: not at all	17:26
teotwaki	akls: just check whether you still have space on the disk you're using	17:26
akls	teotwaki, hmmm	17:27
akls	akls, on n900 I have about 28 gb free	17:27
akls	that should be enough	17:27
teotwaki	no	17:27
teotwaki	you have 28gb free on one partition	17:27
akls	but maybe easy debian has its own limit?	17:27
teotwaki	check the / partition	17:27
* Sicelo shrugs		17:28
teotwaki	I don't know what/how easydeb mounts stuff, but check it doesn't mount some stupidly small block partition	17:28
teotwaki	anyway	17:28
teotwaki	off to buy a house and two new motorbikes, 'later.	17:28
akls	teotwaki, again?	17:28
teotwaki	akls: well, turns out buying a house is a multistep process. Apparently they won't accept a credit card.	17:29
akls	:D	17:29
freemangordon	akls: it is your WD kicking, install swappolube and tweak nr_request parameter	17:29
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freemangordon	*nr_requests	17:30
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freemangordon	make it > 1024	17:30
teotwaki	swappolube and fapman	17:30
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teotwaki	and they wonder why Maemo never appealed to the public at large.	17:30
freemangordon	fapman? for ED ?	17:30
teotwaki	freemangordon: no, sorry, just the names.	17:31
freemangordon	hehe	17:31
freemangordon	akls: also move swap ot uSD (if possible)	17:31
akls	uSD?	17:32
freemangordon	SD card	17:32
freemangordon	u stands for "micro"	17:32
teotwaki	µSD	17:33
freemangordon	exactly	17:33
akls	doesn't make any sense	17:33
akls	microSD isn't any faster than phone memory	17:33
akls	so why would it help	17:33
freemangordon	trust me (tm) on that	17:33
StyXman	akls: bigger	17:34
freemangordon	naah	17:34
freemangordon	it used different I/O bus	17:34
jaska	i wish they had put real 1024MB ram instead of crummy swap :\|	17:34
StyXman	ah, nice	17:34
jaska	or even 512	17:34
jaska	would have made a world of difference	17:34
freemangordon	akls: so there are no clashes with your /opt and /home	17:34
akls	well, we all wish there was any other device besides n900	17:34
StyXman	teotwaki: most probably they won't accept your credit card :)	17:34
jaska	yeah :\|	17:34
freemangordon	akls: exclude me from those "all", please :P	17:35
akls	freemangordon, why?	17:35
freemangordon	because my n900 does everything I want from it, so I don;t need another device	17:36
jaska	i could use a kbd with more keys, more ram	17:36
jaska	or atleast a kbd where the matrix doesnt ovelap as much, some keycombos arent possible	17:36
freemangordon	n950 has larger kbd, 4 rows, and trust me, the one on n900 is better. and I can always attach BT keyboard when I want more keys	17:37
jaska	like shift-fn-z and shift-fn-x bug out	17:37
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jaska	(with a custom xkb map)	17:37
freemangordon	with extkbd :P	17:37
jaska	not really interested in bt kbds.. just made a layout that removes some useless things and map more stuff behind shift-fn-something	17:38
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ShadowJK	bt keyboard are annoying in the way you need 2-3 hands more to use them ;)	17:42
freemangordon	hmm, why is that? I don't see any difference with my desktop.	17:44
ShadowJK	Yes but if I have a desk I use computer	17:45
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freemangordon	sure, the point is that there are lots of real life scenarios when n900 + BT kbd/mouse does the job pretty well	17:46
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freemangordon	being on a holiday for example	17:46
jaska	for some people perhaps.	17:46
ShadowJK	the N900 hwkbd is nice though i think	17:47
jaska	my keycaps are getting so worn that the backlight shines thru :)	17:47
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ShadowJK	had that on my previous n900 :)	17:48
jaska	well, only R and T so far	17:49
ShadowJK	and also the s key had lost tactile feedback	17:49
jaska	not sure why those two speficially	17:49
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johnsu01	jaska: that happened on my warranty replacement very quickly	17:50
jaska	this is my first n900 so far	17:50
* ShadowJK is on his third		17:50
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* freemangordon is on his first :)		17:51
jaska	i know 2 people with unused ones so i can always buy from them cheapish :)	17:51
freemangordon	and strangely all the painting is still intact	17:51
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jaska	one scratch on a corner from a drop	17:51
freemangordon	after 2 and a half years	17:51
jaska	not sure why people said it scratches on the screen easily	17:52
freemangordon	because it does	17:52
freemangordon	it is soft	17:52
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jaska	hmm, mine hasnt so far <.<	17:52
jaska	cross fingers	17:52
akls	how can I use autocompletion with virtual keyboard?	17:52
RST38h	n900's screen is easily scratchable indeed	17:52
freemangordon	akls: enable it	17:52
jaska	might be that i carry it in a htc belt container.. just had to stretch it a bit to fit the mugen backcover	17:53
akls	freemangordon, I start typing it, then it suggests me something.. and?	17:53
freemangordon	click the blue part	17:53
akls	if I press SPACE, it erases the suggestion	17:53
akls	oh!	17:53
freemangordon	I had to ask for that one too :D	17:53
jaska	i tried installing some screen cover but i failed when it was new	17:53
jaska	didnt bother buying another one	17:54
jaska	couldnt get bubbles out	17:54
freemangordon	jaska: well, I recommend you to put one, even with the bubbles	17:54
jaska	ive had the device for a few years so.. dont think ill need it	17:54
freemangordon	well, ok	17:55
StyXman	akls: also, press ->	17:56
akls	StyXman, wtf is ->	17:57
freemangordon	right arroe	17:57
StyXman	akls: 'right'	17:57
freemangordon	*arrow	17:57
akls	right arrow? How can I press it if I have virtual keyboard enabled?	17:57
freemangordon	StyXman: but we're talking about VKB	17:57
StyXman	ah, heeh	17:57
StyXman	who uses it anyways	17:58
akls	anyway, is there any way to use two hardware keyboard layouts?	17:58
freemangordon	sure	17:58
akls	any "easy" way?	17:58
freemangordon	it is supported OOB	17:58
freemangordon	enable it	17:58
akls	OOB?	17:59
freemangordon	~oob	17:59
infobot	oob is probably DTMF Out Of Band	17:59
freemangordon	out of the box	17:59
akls	freemangordon, it's not :(	17:59
akls	freemangordon, well, I have enabled it. and now I have two virtual keyboard layouts	17:59
akls	now what about hardware layout?	17:59
freemangordon	hmm, define " two hardware keyboard layouts"	18:00
freemangordon	use ctrl-space toswitch	18:00
akls	I press "a" key on the keyboard, english "a" is typed. I press "a" key on the keyboard, russian ф is typed	18:00
freemangordon	use ctrl+space	18:00
akls	freemangordon, it said that layout was changed, but really nothing happened	18:01
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StyXman	akls: have you defined the second one?	18:01
freemangordon	hmm, did you setup it correctly?	18:01
freemangordon	settings->text input	18:02
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akls	yes	18:02
freemangordon	at the bottom you should define first and second languages	18:02
vi_	freemangordon: yo	18:02
akls	yes	18:02
freemangordon	vi_: yo	18:02
akls	freemangordon, but on the top I have "Hardware keyboard layout"	18:02
akls	freemangordon, and it's set to "English, Nederlands"	18:03
freemangordon	no, change that to russian	18:03
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akls	on the bottom I have 1st language: English, 2nd language: Russian	18:03
vi_	I just read in the thread for the virtual keyboard that you now have 'the sources' for hildon input method? Where did that come from?	18:03
akls	freemangordon, alright! You're right	18:04
freemangordon	vi_: man where you've been? :P	18:04
freemangordon	https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-input-method-plugins	18:04
akls	freemangordon, now it works	18:04
freemangordon	https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-im-vkbrenderer3	18:04
akls	freemangordon, but it was something I wouldn't ever get by myself	18:04
akls	lol	18:04
vi_	freemangordon: life is brutally busy.	18:05
freemangordon	akls: call centre is here. As usual :D:D:D	18:05
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freemangordon	vi_: I REed those	18:05
vi_	I do not even have time to get to grips with my shiny n950.	18:05
vi_	freemangordon: So the official source was not provided, you just REed it?	18:06
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freemangordon	vi_: It is better that way, you'll be disappointed	18:06
freemangordon	yes	18:06
vi_	freemangordon: You are really quite the talent!	18:06
freemangordon	hehe	18:06
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freemangordon	I know :P	18:06
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vi_	I issed the work canteen cake give-away.	18:07
freemangordon	vi_: though REing is way easier with hexrays	18:07
vi_	freemangordon: I love hexrays.	18:07
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freemangordon	me too	18:07
vi_	IDA pro rulez.	18:07
freemangordon	as always	18:07
freemangordon	vi_: the last victim was libcal :P	18:08
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freemangordon	vi_: https://gitorious.org/cal/cal	18:09
* freemangordon thinks what javispedro has to say about if he can put LGPL on that		18:11
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akls	am I the only person who likes the resistive touchscreen that much?	18:16
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akls	is there any GOOD desktop widget to show memory, swap, cpu usage?	18:19
freemangordon	akls: you're not	18:19
freemangordon	akls: for that stuff you'd better use conky	18:20
freemangordon	the one in extras-devel	18:20
freemangordon	Pali: hi	18:21
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akls	freemangordon, yep! but I'm asking for a desktop widget	18:21
freemangordon	still no comment on my comment re u-boot, I wonder if that guy just ignores me or he has not received the mail	18:21
freemangordon	akls: can;t help here	18:22
akls	ok	18:22
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akls	why the fuck MyDocs partition is vfat and not ext3?	18:38
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akls	"FAT is used as it can be accessed on most non-Linux computers and is thus useful for data exchange in USB mass storage mode "	18:40
akls	so for window users? -_-	18:40
akls	damn	18:40
jacekowski	windows, linux, mac	18:41
jacekowski	ext3 sucks	18:41
jacekowski	other option would be MTP, and you don't want that	18:41
akls	sucks? much better than fat shit	18:45
jacekowski	no	18:45
akls	no?	18:45
jacekowski	fat is simpler and far more reliable when it comes to power cuts	18:46
akls	why? I can't even have my easy debian image bigger than 4 gb	18:46
jacekowski	ideal fs for mobile devices	18:46
freemangordon	jacekowski: was that you with dosbox?	18:48
akls	jacekowski, then why /home is ext3?	18:48
freemangordon	alks FAT does not support permissions	18:49
freemangordon	*akls	18:50
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DocScrutinizer05	~ootb	18:54
infobot	hmm... ootb is Out Of The Box	18:54
* DocScrutinizer05 makes mental note to get some more spare keymats		18:56
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akls	wtf	19:01
akls	n900 turns of after a while when booting BackupMenu	19:02
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kerio	~rescue-os	19:02
infobot	rescue-os is probably http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/	19:02
akls	oh no	19:03
akls	now it works	19:03
akls	false alarm :D	19:03
DocScrutinizer05	apt-get upgrade easydeb? bwahahaha	19:07
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vi_	akls: look into queen beecon widgets	19:22
vi_	for cpu, memory etc	19:23
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vi_	although, what better way to waste your cpu, memory etc than with widgets telling you how much cpu/memory you have wasted with widgets.	19:23
freemangordon	:D	19:24
vi_	I am sure there is a 'yo dawg, I heard you like x and y, so we put and x in y so you can x while you y'.	19:24
vi_	I took all of the memory allocations out of syspart.conf.	19:24
freemangordon	speedpatch'	19:25
freemangordon	:P	19:25
vi_	Lets just see how this mutha roles.	19:25
vi_	I INVENTED SPEEDPATCH.	19:25
vi_	no	19:25
vi_	it was battery patch.	19:25
freemangordon	yeah, batterypatch. and we all hate you for this :D	19:26
freemangordon	vi_: btw I reied swappiness of 0. don;t work goo, now laying with 10	19:27
vi_	...	19:27
freemangordon	so far so good	19:28
freemangordon	*played with	19:28
freemangordon	sorry	19:28
vi_	Is that the only thing you changed?	19:28
freemangordon	I should be more careful when typing	19:28
vi_	I already hate myself for winning an n950.	19:28
freemangordon	no, but compared with pre-thumb	19:29
freemangordon	vi_: why is that?	19:30
vi_	there are just so many parameters to fiddle with, I just do not know how to effectivly measure the result of changing any of them.	19:30
vi_	Because now I have an n950.	19:30
vi_	What do I do with it?	19:30
freemangordon	btw i broke the screen, you can send it to me if you hate it too much :D	19:30
vi_	I cannot use it because spare parts do not exist.	19:30
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vi_	If it breaks, that is it.	19:31
freemangordon	I know that pretty well	19:31
vi_	I cannot sell it because that would make me a total fuckwad.	19:31
freemangordon	well, it is not broken, just those 2 black stripes	19:31
vi_	I do not want to start 'getting into' it as that would rob me of another 2 years like the n900.	19:32
freemangordon	vi_: hmm, I don;t think there is such risk	19:32
vi_	I do not want to give it to some aspiring programer as that would divert his attention away from fremantle.	19:32
freemangordon	n9/50 is waay too limited caompared to n900	19:32
freemangordon	bot HW and SW	19:32
freemangordon	*both	19:33
vi_	I feel I should give it away.	19:33
vi_	But then I think, Easy debian!	19:33
vi_	a pocket linux computer with fone!!!	19:33
vi_	But I cannot use it incase I break it.	19:33
vi_	Then I am back at the start.	19:34
vi_	1st world problems.	19:34
vi_	Do you think n950 parts would be available through nokia care points?	19:35
freemangordon	I should call them some day	19:37
freemangordon	these days though	19:37
freemangordon	to try to find a replacement screen	19:37
vi_	fix backing swap and give me thumb+neon comiled mplayer and you can have mine.	19:37
vi_	mint condition.	19:37
freemangordon	promise?	19:39
vi_	yes	19:39
freemangordon	mplayer? ffmpeg?	19:40
vi_	mplayer	19:40
freemangordon	it comes with its own codecs?	19:40
vi_	libavcodec or something.	19:40
freemangordon	well, gimme the sources	19:40
vi_	it is already in the repos.	19:40
freemangordon	aah, i,ve already did that	19:41
vi_	lols	19:41
freemangordon	for ogg/flac	19:41
vi_	n950 - Achievement 50% unlocked	19:41
freemangordon	but still not in -thumb, I want berkeley DB and PA first	19:41
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vi_	you are free to do as you wish, I expect nothing from you. You have already contributed so much to my favourite platform.	19:42
freemangordon	vi_: though you'll receive newer one for libavcodec than the one in repos, as NEON badly supported in maemo version	19:42
vi_	that is what I mean.	19:43
freemangordon	*is badly	19:43
freemangordon	yeah, I told you, I played a bit	19:43
freemangordon	hmm, maybe I will issue a small update today, with berkeley DB only.	19:44
freemangordon	lets see if I will ahev time	19:44
freemangordon	*have	19:44
vi_	to state terms: newer mplayer+ramzswap backingswap working properly==1 mint condition n950 for FMG.	19:44
freemangordon	vi_: BTW libavcodec is derived from ffmpeg	19:45
vi_	freemangordon: I suspected as such.	19:45
freemangordon	vi_: any problems mplayer to be statically linked?	19:45
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freemangordon	if for some reason I am unable to backport libavcodec to maemo	19:45
freemangordon	(upstream version)	19:46
vi_	not for me.	19:46
freemangordon	vi_: and don't expect it in -extras :P	19:46
freemangordon	-thumb rulez	19:47
vi_	thumb4life.	19:47
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vi_	I did not choose the thumb2 life, the thumb2 life chose me.	19:47
freemangordon	ok, deal. going afk for a while	19:47
kerio	vi_: but ramzswap sucks balls	19:50
RST38h	better than no ramzswap	19:51
kerio	freemangordon: would you use ramzswap?	19:51
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: ^	19:51
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RST38h	And now for the really mysterious facts of everyday life: an Android developer is apparently prohibited from buying his own app from Google Play Store	19:53
RST38h	Head, meet table.	19:53
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freemangordon	:D:D:D	20:01
freemangordon	kerio: not in its current form	20:02
freemangordon	but if I manage to make backing swap work as it should, I might reconsider	20:03
kerio	?	20:03
kerio	what do you mean?	20:03
freemangordon	rephrase you question please	20:04
freemangordon	I was answering to <kerio> freemangordon: would you use ramzswap?	20:04
kerio	how is it supposed to work?	20:04
freemangordon	fast	20:04
freemangordon	the qurrent implementation does not deal with flash memory	20:05
freemangordon	*current	20:05
freemangordon	so it reads/writes 4k at once	20:05
freemangordon	you can imagine	20:05
kerio	ew	20:05
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GGon	hm	20:27
GGon	symbian is the only 4G OS that doesnt attach you to some conglomeratr	20:27
GGon	or meego	20:28
GGon	im getting an e7 next week for sure	20:28
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jacekowski	4G OS?	20:43
vi__	4G OS!!!	20:44
kerio	4G OS!1!1!1!1	20:45
vi__	BIRDS WITH ARMS\|!!!\|!	20:46
kerio	NO >:C	20:47
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kerio	Pali: yo pali	21:22
kerio	sup	21:22
Pali	what?	21:23
kerio	'sup	21:23
kerio	as in, wassup	21:23
kerio	ie what's up	21:23
kerio	colloquial for "what's going on in your life as of late"	21:23
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Pali	voronoi diagrams	21:26
Pali	kerio, did you ever heard about it? :D	21:26
kerio	Pali: cute	21:27
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Pali	fortune algorithm	21:31
kerio	i never did any kind of programming related to geometry	21:33
DocScrutinizer05	fortune algorithm. now THAT sounds cool	21:39
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: sadly, it's not an algorithm to be more lucky	21:39
kerio	Pali: btw, how do i boot rescue-os from uboot?	21:41
DocScrutinizer05	exactly like meego?	21:41
kerio	i also have no idea how to boot meego	21:41
kerio	so there's that	21:41
DocScrutinizer05	ooh wait, r-os is not flashed, no?	21:41
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: no, but of course uboot can do everything	21:42
DocScrutinizer05	so you don't boot r-od from uBoot at all	21:42
DocScrutinizer05	r-os	21:42
Pali	kerio, for rescue os boot from u-boot look at u-boot tmo thread	21:42
DocScrutinizer05	since NOLO loads r-os to RAM and starts it	21:42
Pali	I wrote it	21:42
kerio	uboot could boot a potato, unless it's on the nand	21:42
freemangordon	vi_: mplayer is ready :P	21:43
kerio	freemangordon: is it hardfp?	21:43
Pali	kerio, hardfp is not possible on maemo	21:43
Pali	you need to recompile ALL libraries and applications	21:44
kerio	why?	21:44
DocScrutinizer05	errr, statically linked it is, I'd guess	21:44
Pali	but some are closed, so it is not possible	21:44
kerio	can't you just get a glibc for mplayer?	21:44
Pali	but why static linking?	21:44
kerio	and gtk, whatevs	21:44
Pali	and having two version of each (more) oss libraries in system is stupid idea	21:44
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon said he might revert to static linking for mplayer	21:44
freemangordon	Nokia-N900:/opt# ./mplayer -v	21:45
freemangordon	MPlayer 1.1-4.7.2 (C) 2000-2012 MPlayer Team	21:45
freemangordon	it is static by default	21:45
Pali	here is algorithm by stevan fortune on wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune's_algorithm	21:45
DocScrutinizer05	ooh	21:45
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, it is not easy!	21:45
kerio	Pali: i read that, it's really cool	21:45
kerio	both the algorithm and the animated gif on wikipedia :D	21:46
freemangordon	vi_: http://merlin1991.at/~freemangordon/mplayer1.1/	21:46
freemangordon	vi_: please compare with stock and comment	21:46
kerio	Pali: hmm, where are 2.6.37 and rescueOS-initrd-0.5.3.img supposed to be?	21:47
DocScrutinizer05	errrrrrr	21:47
Pali	kerio, where you set it in your item file	21:47
kerio	Pali: yeah but those are relative paths	21:47
kerio	are they implied to be in /boot?	21:47
Pali	kerio, also first need to convert to uImage format	21:47
kerio	Pali: really? :O	21:48
kerio	why?	21:48
Pali	if you set your item file to load it from first eMMC or SD card, then uboot will load it from	21:48
Pali	files under /boot are converted automatically	21:48
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kerio	i thought u-boot-update-bootmenu did the conversion for me	21:48
kerio	oic	21:48
vi__	freemangordon: will do.	21:48
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kerio	~rescue-os	21:48
infobot	somebody said rescue-os was http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/	21:48
Pali	but if you want to store it in MyDocs or in /home or on sd card, then script will not generate any file	21:49
Pali	but it set correct file path to uboot	21:49
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freemangordon	vi_: what is the best frontend for mplayer?	21:50
kerio	does the initrd have to be there too?	21:50
vi__	freemangordon: xterm XD	21:51
freemangordon	hehe	21:51
vi__	kmplayer or smplayer	21:51
freemangordon	ok	21:51
vi__	kmplayer probably	21:51
vi__	personally I use xterm for everything.	21:51
freemangordon	yeah, i've just installed it	21:51
freemangordon	(kmplayer	21:52
freemangordon	vi_: how big is stock mplayer?	21:52
vi__	1 sec	21:52
freemangordon	yeah, found it	21:52
freemangordon	hmm, it is 1MB smaller than 1.1	21:53
vi__	7.18MB	21:53
DocScrutinizer05	voronoi based on manhattan distance is fun	21:54
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Pali	DocScrutinizer05, no here end of all fun	21:57
Pali	I have really no idea how to create it	21:57
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: rescueOS booted :D	21:58
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vi__	so hardfp is possible if it is statically linked?	22:00
vi__	does that mean you could run a hardfp chroot?	22:00
kerio	vi__: i'd ask for hardfp before giving him your n950	22:00
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, ukkonen algorithm (for linear suffix tree) is easier then voronoi on manhattan distance	22:01
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: hrmpf, lost my clock for some reason	22:01
freemangordon	vi__: yes, hardfp chroot is possible	22:03
freemangordon	AIUI	22:03
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: it's definetely related to some charging script botching something, because i get into ACT_DEAD mode for a little bit when booting fremantle	22:04
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DocScrutinizer05	no, hardfp is not possible, since it's still same kernel	22:06
DocScrutinizer05	I'd guess	22:06
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: kernel does not care about hard/softfp afaik	22:06
freemangordon	it is libc/libm	22:07
freemangordon	just think about flashplayer in harmatan	22:07
freemangordon	it is softfp wit a wrapper ro libm	22:07
freemangordon	s/ro/to/	22:07
infobot	freemangordon meant: it is softfp wit a wrapper to libm	22:07
DocScrutinizer05	maybe I'm mistaken	22:08
freemangordon	softfp/hardfp difference is in how the float parameters are passed	22:08
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, I guess nobody ever passing floats to kernel	22:09
freemangordon	softfp uses r0-r13(ARM) regs, while hardfp uses FPU regs	22:09
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	22:09
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DocScrutinizer05	since probably I would beat them down the main alley for using floats in kernel space	22:10
freemangordon	AFAIK there is no other difference	22:10
kerio	but floats r kewl	22:10
freemangordon	~kewl	22:11
infobot	it has been said that kewl is zwampy	22:11
freemangordon	the fuck	22:11
DocScrutinizer05	prolly PA will kill you though	22:11
DocScrutinizer05	or ALSA itself	22:12
freemangordon	why? aren't they use some kind of	22:12
freemangordon	ABI?	22:12
freemangordon	i don;t think anyone calls PA or ALSA with arrays of loats	22:13
freemangordon	though might be totally wrong	22:13
DocScrutinizer05	you don't think so ;-P	22:13
DocScrutinizer05	?	22:13
freemangordon	*floats	22:14
DocScrutinizer05	yet it seems I heard exactly that	22:14
freemangordon	well, chroot could include PA as well, the same way ED does it	22:14
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DocScrutinizer05	yeah, the clean good'ol ALSA audio cards will still takes16le and nuttin else	22:15
freemangordon	hmm, maybe I am wrong, but PA uses some kind of "socket"	22:15
freemangordon	so it should not matter if float parameters are passed by ARM or FPU regs	22:16
DocScrutinizer05	o.O	22:16
freemangordon	I am not experienced enough on that matter	22:16
freemangordon	(PA/ALSA)	22:16
DocScrutinizer05	the audio cards are kernel space	22:17
DocScrutinizer05	PA (like ALSA plugins) is userland, ALSA even basically a lib	22:17
freemangordon	well, calling convention in user space should make no difference then	22:17
DocScrutinizer05	yep	22:17
DocScrutinizer05	but the moment when they hand the frames down to audiocard, it crosses the border	22:18
DocScrutinizer05	[2012-10-18 21:15:25] <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, the clean good'ol ALSA audio cards will still takes16le and nuttin else	22:18
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freemangordon	hmm , we are not changing endianess here	22:18
freemangordon	just where the values sit	22:18
DocScrutinizer05	sure	22:18
DocScrutinizer05	s16le will not be passed in FPU regs ;-)	22:19
freemangordon	and that should not matter for any i/o operation	22:19
freemangordon	and even if userland have to write some float to mmaped memory, it will know where to get it from	22:19
freemangordon	ie ARM/FPU reg	22:20
freemangordon	AFAIK we can't pass anything to kernal by other means but memory	22:20
DocScrutinizer05	audio cards have several ABIs, not only mmap	22:20
freemangordon	it was just an example	22:20
freemangordon	whether it is mmap or /dev/some_cool_audio, we still pass the data via the memory	22:21
DocScrutinizer05	but I'm as well no expert	22:21
freemangordon	up/down _ /read/write	22:21
freemangordon	I am not aware of anything else in kernel	22:22
DocScrutinizer05	ther could - in theory - be an audiocard that has a hardfp (or softfp) ABI	22:22
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freemangordon	hmm, what is that supposed to mean	22:22
DocScrutinizer05	parameter passed from userland process to kernel audiocard being a singe float	22:23
freemangordon	FPU regs are inside MPU, and it is only MPU who can access them	22:23
freemangordon	aah, I see	22:23
freemangordon	but his is not hardfp	22:24
freemangordon	as you can't pass data to kernel by using registers	22:24
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, since it's not math	22:24
freemangordon	only memory	22:24
DocScrutinizer05	sounds sound ;-)	22:24
freemangordon	so whatever the calling convention in userland/kernel is, you're safe	22:25
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	22:25
freemangordon	(at least my knowledge says that :D )	22:25
DocScrutinizer05	I bet you're right	22:25
freemangordon	sounds sane.	22:25
freemangordon	at least	22:25
DocScrutinizer05	vi_: so how about simply testing a hardfp chroot? :-D	22:26
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DocScrutinizer05	(btw I ran tests for freemangordon (iirc), hardfp vs softfp, it didn't seem to make any difference)	22:27
DocScrutinizer05	performance-wide	22:27
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DocScrutinizer05	though we both had some problems to accept that result	22:28
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DocScrutinizer05	was it you, freemangordon?	22:28
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: it makes difference only for FPU intensive tasks	22:28
freemangordon	can't remember	22:28
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	22:28
freemangordon	most probably no	22:28
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freemangordon	you promised me thumb/stock comparison :P	22:29
DocScrutinizer05	oh yes	22:29
freemangordon	not hardfp/softfp	22:29
DocScrutinizer05	:-S	22:29
DocScrutinizer05	shame on me	22:29
freemangordon	shame on you :D:D:D	22:29
DocScrutinizer05	I still have the thumb-device/system here	22:30
DocScrutinizer05	but I don't know how to take a proper video on the comparision	22:30
DocScrutinizer05	and I'm absolutely reluctant to post subjective judgements	22:32
DocScrutinizer05	so maybe there's a nice performance test website?	22:33
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DocScrutinizer05	wait, did you say you thombified HAM?	22:34
kerio	he did	22:34
kerio	well, i don't know if he said it	22:34
kerio	but he thumbified it	22:34
DocScrutinizer05	so a simple HAM show all, on same set of repos, should be easily time-able	22:34
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DocScrutinizer05	no, zhombified	22:35
DocScrutinizer05	;-)	22:35
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: that been an intentional one, I won't give it away now that I found it ;-)	22:36
DocScrutinizer05	tombified	22:36
DocScrutinizer05	thinbified	22:37
freemangordon	hehe	22:37
freemangordon	doc, in latest -tomb :P both apt and HAM are thumb-compiled	22:38
freemangordon	so you can do apt-get update on the same set of repos (prefferably extras-devel amongst them) and check the times	22:38
DocScrutinizer05	hmmm, lemme check what I got here	22:39
DocScrutinizer05	settings- about?	22:39
DocScrutinizer05	uname -a?	22:39
freemangordon	should work	22:39
freemangordon	you should be on 5.1-thumb3	22:39
freemangordon	you should be on 5.1+thumb3	22:39
DocScrutinizer05	38-1Tmaemo5.1+thumb0	22:40
freemangordon	well, upgrade	22:40
DocScrutinizer05	tell me how	22:40
freemangordon	via HAM	22:40
freemangordon	:P	22:40
DocScrutinizer05	k	22:40
DocScrutinizer05	aaaah that's why theres that nagging[!]	22:41
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: technically you should reflash and full reset both n900s	22:41
DocScrutinizer05	Maemo 5 community SSU package(thumb)	22:41
freemangordon	kerio: for apt-get update should not matter that much	22:41
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DocScrutinizer05	dafaq I'll do	22:42
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: yep	22:42
kerio	freemangordon: no, to do a perfectly legit comparison	22:42
freemangordon	aah, deffinitely	22:42
MrPingu	Where's that guy who asked for ngrep?	22:42
MrPingu	I compiled it here and it seems it's working fine	22:42
DocScrutinizer05	the other system is virgin PR1.3	22:43
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freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: just have in mind when comparing RAM, that KCSSU(aka KP) has 12MB reserved for framebuffer, compared to 6 in staock	22:43
DocScrutinizer05	this one seen thumb	22:43
vi__	whatd I miss?	22:43
freemangordon	a little discussion provoked by your question	22:43
freemangordon	for hardfp chroot	22:44
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: have you done anything else?	22:44
DocScrutinizer05	nope	22:44
kerio	cool	22:44
kerio	maybe let them run for a bit before doing the test	22:44
MrPingu	except it listens on wmaster0 as default but with a -d wlan0 command it's fixed ;p	22:44
DocScrutinizer05	two virgin N900	22:44
DocScrutinizer05	one with CSSU-thumb pimping	22:45
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vi__	DocScrutinizer05: oooooh!	22:45
freemangordon	yeah, a perverted one :P	22:45
vi__	I want to see graphs 'n shit when you are done.	22:45
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: if you plan to do some mmedia comparison, don;t do it	22:46
vi__	Who wants to sell me 2xn900?	22:46
DocScrutinizer05	vi__: that's why I'm still not even beginning	22:46
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: btw, what's your installed version of hildon-initscripts on your main n900?	22:46
kerio	freemangordon: why no mmedia comparison? :o	22:47
freemangordon	until I put PA and ALSA	22:47
freemangordon	because until now only gstreamer is in -thumb	22:47
freemangordon	it will make a difference of course, but gstreamer-av uses ffmpeg	22:47
DocScrutinizer05	hmhm, rebooted, and "success" KTNX	22:47
freemangordon	which is still not thumb	22:47
freemangordon	bad you don;t have FB account	22:48
DocScrutinizer05	but now I have to run for dinner	22:48
freemangordon	FB is the ultimate "on your knees" for mobile browsers	22:48
freemangordon	(c) WASP ^^^	22:48
kerio	meh, i'd say myfreecams is a better power test	22:48
freemangordon	what is it? pr0n?	22:49
kerio	yeah	22:49
SpeedEvil	yes	22:49
freemangordon	hehe	22:49
kerio	but most importantly, lots and lots of javascript to keep an updated list of channels, and flash player	22:49
freemangordon	kerio: so, how's your power?	22:49
kerio	iirc SpeedEvil looked a bit into it, it was quite sophisticated	22:49
SpeedEvil	it's wacky	22:49
freemangordon	:D	22:50
kerio	no srsly	22:50
SpeedEvil	it's got a non-visible flash applet that talks to a sorta IRC XML thingy.	22:50
freemangordon	well, heavy flash will be the same on stock/thumb	22:50
SpeedEvil	then, a JavaScript half to process the data that provides into 'normal' pages	22:50
SpeedEvil	then another flash, for any video	22:51
freemangordon	lol	22:51
freemangordon	I am not sure my desktop could handle that	22:51
freemangordon	*can	22:51
kerio	all of this, just to see a girl dressed as slave leia masturbating with two replica lightsabers	22:51
SpeedEvil	damn.	22:51
kerio	OR SO I HEARD	22:52
SpeedEvil	I've only seen one lightsaber at a time	22:52
freemangordon	hmm, not enough power for 2 maybe	22:52
freemangordon	SpeedEvil: did you installed -thumb?	22:52
kerio	:D	22:52
freemangordon	*install	22:52
SpeedEvil	no.	22:52
freemangordon	well, that is why	22:52
kerio	SpeedEvil: at some point she had The Imperial March playing in the background	22:52
SpeedEvil	I've been exhausted with deeply boring stuff.	22:53
SpeedEvil	http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199798/ldjudgmt/jd970521/cock04.htm	22:53
freemangordon	SpeedEvil: 2 lightsabers are for those with thumb, ask kerio if you dont trust me :P	22:53
SpeedEvil	I have in my paste buffer, for example	22:53
kerio	by the way, i am serious	22:53
DocScrutinizer05	that's clearly the dark side	22:53
DocScrutinizer05	as sexy as darth vader	22:54
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: one lightsaber was definetely there	22:54
DocScrutinizer05	cock04, epic URL	22:55
DocScrutinizer05	;-P	22:55
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freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: the other test (which I already did, but still) is openssl benchmark	22:56
DocScrutinizer05	errrrr	22:56
SpeedEvil	it's way more boring than the URL suggests	22:57
DocScrutinizer05	Mrs Cockrane	22:57
freemangordon	"openssl speed"	22:57
vi__	confirming: myfreecam==pr0n	22:58
DocScrutinizer05	is that a shell cmd or what?	22:58
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kerio	vi__: what gave it away?	22:58
kerio	the "girl masturbating with two lightsabers" part?	22:58
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: yes, just type that in termiinal	22:59
vi__	you know what else is a misleading URL?	23:00
vi__	penisland.com	23:00
freemangordon	vi__: did you try mplayer?	23:00
vi__	freemangordon: not yet, cooking tea!	23:01
freemangordon	ok	23:01
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: will it ever finsih?	23:01
freemangordon	yes	23:02
freemangordon	it uses constatnt time per test	23:02
DocScrutinizer05	omg	23:02
DocScrutinizer05	I hope it gives a summary at end	23:02
freemangordon	hmm, no	23:02
freemangordon	well, can't remember	23:03
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DocScrutinizer05	ok, another missed dinner :-/	23:04
freemangordon	http://pastebin.com/Bpdt8nr7	23:05
freemangordon	this is what it gives	23:05
vi__	freemangordon: it does appear to play media, will need to compare performance later.	23:07
freemangordon	vi__: it deffinitely plays media, I was asking abot performance	23:07
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freemangordon	so ok	23:07
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akls	I've tried solution #7 http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash	23:30
akls	so I connected my n900, and in gparted I've formatted vfat partition to ext3	23:31
akls	now when I boot n900 everything is screwed	23:31
akls	well, the OS works	23:31
akls	but all images are replaced with IMAGE NOT FOUND image	23:31
akls	and all gui thing is default	23:31
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vi__	akls: that is because you need to change genfstab.awk to mount an ext partition instead of vfat 32.	23:38
akls	vi__, damn	23:40
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vi__	you changed mydocs to ext?	23:40
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kerio	hahahah wow	23:42
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akls	vi__, yes	23:42
kerio	hahahahahahahahahahahahahah	23:42
vi__	read this:	23:42
vi__	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73478	23:42
akls	vi__, alright	23:45
akls	now about fixing my current situation	23:45
akls	should I reflash?	23:45
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vi__	I dont know.	23:47
vi__	Afaik, all you have to do is alter genfstab.awk.	23:47
vi__	then everything should be fixed.	23:47
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vi__	but I am not sure	23:49
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akls	vi__, I think anything else is screwed... but reflashing would cause partition table to reset, right?	23:50
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vi__	complete reflash will completely reset everything.	23:53
kerio	not everything, tho	23:53
kerio	~n900-full-reset	23:53
infobot	from memory, n900-full-reset is when the user presses the PWRON (power-on) button for 8 seconds and removes the battery in the next 8 seconds, the TPS65950 enters NO SUPPLY state instead of BACKUP state, even if a valid backup battery is present. In such a situation, the backup domain registers are also reset, along with the VRRTC domain registers.	23:53
vi__	kerio: keepup	23:53
vi__	full re-flash	23:54
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kerio	full reflash still doesn't reset TPS	23:54
vi__	akls: after reflash, install backup menu first.	23:55
vi__	then use gparted and increase /opt to 4-6GB or so.	23:56
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