| DocScrutinizer05 | (characters were actually planned to be just a predefined special from of the general usage macros definable by user) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kerio | ooh, so you'd actually just draw vectorized letters? | 00:00 |
| kerio | neat | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 00:00 |
| kerio | how fast was it at drawing? | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never seen anything but the paper it got designed on | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a feasibility study for fun | 00:01 |
| kerio | so... was it feasible? | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in theory yes, but if it was economically sensible is another question | 00:02 |
| kerio | anyway, vector videogames were really popular in the 80s | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | original asteroids been vector graphics | 00:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | real vector graphics, down to the tube | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no vector graphics lib painting into a matrix framebuffer | 00:04 |
| kerio | and now beautifully antialiased by MAME :) | 00:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | oh yeah :-P >>ATI also announced a card under development which would support Unicode gaming. "It's a real chicken or the egg scenario. Do we make a card that supports Unicode gaming before there are games, or will the games appear after we make the card. We hope this announcement gets the game giants in gear."<< | 00:13 |
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| kerio | :D | 00:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1264963#post1264963 ff | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/if/when/ | 04:26 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: [GENERAL NOTICE] when you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1264963#post1264963 ff | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, nm | 04:26 |
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| LaoLang_cool | is there a way to run contacts and locate to a specify contact from cli? | 04:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, *run* contacts | 05:07 |
| LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer05, could you point me the way please? | 05:07 |
| LaoLang_cool | I want to invoke the application of contacts, and locate to a contact | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, if I understood what you said, I suggest you look at desktop shortcuts | 05:07 |
| LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer05, I want to do it in cli, desktop shortcuts needs to be created before use | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I siad "look at" | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if they are some sort of .desktop file, they probably have some commandline in them | 05:10 |
| LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer05, oh! DocScrutinizer05 thank you, will look at it | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I got no better hints | 05:11 |
| LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer05, it's a smart way to start :) | 05:11 |
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| LaoLang_cool | oh, I'm not clear which dir they are in? | 05:12 |
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| LaoLang_cool | They aren't at /usr/share/applications/hildon-home/ :( | 05:14 |
| Skry | use find | 05:14 |
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| LaoLang_cool | Skry, I don't know the file's name :( | 05:15 |
| LaoLang_cool | say a contact of "Foo Bar" | 05:15 |
| LaoLang_cool | what the file name of it? | 05:15 |
| Skry | dont know about that but if you want to find your .desktop files: find / -name "*.desktop" | 05:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | another idea: dbus-monitor while you click on such a contact-shortcut. I'd be surprised if dbus wasn't involved in invoking contacts app on a particular contact | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you want to monitor session bus for that, not system bus | 05:25 |
| Skry | DocScrutinizer05: dont know if you're interested but found out the cause and fix for the cpufreq/sr issue we talked about | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course there's also documentation about all that, I recall a djungle of objects, called roaster and whatnot else | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 05:27 |
| LaoLang_cool | oh, too complicated to me :( | 05:27 |
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| LaoLang_cool | will use find | 05:28 |
| Skry | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, problem is oscillator frequency used in N900 combined with the fact that frequency rounding was removed from cpufreq at some point so N900 freqs dont match the ones in OPP table | 05:29 |
| Skry | so cpufreq sets frequency, fails but sets voltages nevertheless, and we have a lockup | 05:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | weird | 05:31 |
| LaoLang_cool | ok... | 05:32 |
| LaoLang_cool | I don't think I have found a .desktop file relative to the shortcuts on desktop :( | 05:32 |
| LaoLang_cool | by find / -name "*.desktop" | 05:32 |
| LaoLang_cool | maybe the shortcut on desktop is a special case | 05:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think they are widgets handled by hildon-desktop itself | 05:33 |
| LaoLang_cool | maybe... | 05:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you could check which files in your home dir were modified exactly the time you created the desktop contact shortcut | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you could use ~# dbus-monitor --session | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or search wiki (phonecontrol) and see if something already is mentioned there | 05:38 |
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| LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer05, thank you for advice, will do it when have time | 05:58 |
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| LaoLang_cool | How to usb networking? I'm following the instruction on maemo wiki http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking, don't know how to install usb-otg-plugin, apt-get install can't find it | 10:09 |
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| kerio | Skry: is it fixable? | 10:27 |
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| LaoLang_cool | Hello. How to usb networking? I'm following the instruction on maemo wiki http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking, don't know how to install usb-otg-plugin, apt-get install can't find it | 10:41 |
| kerio | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking | 10:42 |
| kerio | those instructions are for the N8x0 | 10:43 |
| LaoLang_cool | kerio, thank you, will read it | 10:43 |
| kerio | anyway, there's really not much to it, if you just want to make the n900 and the computer communicate | 10:44 |
| kerio | make sure g_nokia is loaded, ifup usb0 | 10:44 |
| kerio | and then configure the network on the pc side | 10:44 |
| kerio | if you're on windows, HAH | 10:44 |
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| LaoLang_cool | yes, on the windows :) | 10:45 |
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| LaoLang_cool | kerio, I have installed MADDE and edited the files of pcsuite-*.sh | 11:14 |
| LaoLang_cool | how to load g_nokia and ifup usb0 ? | 11:14 |
| kerio | g_nokia is loaded whenever you enter pc suite mode on the n900 | 11:14 |
| kerio | (you don't have to *be* in pc-suite mode, just that it should be the last mode you entered) | 11:14 |
| LaoLang_cool | I have connected n900 via pc suite mode, but nothing happened... | 11:14 |
| kerio | lsmod | grep g_ | 11:14 |
| kerio | it's going to be either g_nokia or g_file_storage | 11:15 |
| kerio | (or g_ether, i think) | 11:15 |
| LaoLang_cool | kerio, yes, it has been loaded | 11:15 |
| LaoLang_cool | g_nokia 30376 6 | 11:15 |
| kerio | then find a way to kick windows into shape | 11:15 |
| kerio | not sure if there's one | 11:15 |
| kerio | the n900 should appear as a network card on your computer's side | 11:15 |
| LaoLang_cool | kerio, what do you mean "kick windows into shape"? | 11:16 |
| kerio | install drivers or something | 11:16 |
| kerio | idk | 11:16 |
| kerio | follow the wiki | 11:16 |
| kerio | from the n900's side, sudo ifup usb0 | 11:16 |
| LaoLang_cool | I have installed MADDE and usb networking driver | 11:16 |
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| LaoLang_cool | maybe I need a reboot? I will try | 11:17 |
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| LaoLang_cool | I dont understand "This will only work if you got MADDE installed and configured for "Windows network" | 11:20 |
| LaoLang_cool | How to configure? | 11:20 |
| LaoLang_cool | I just installed MADDE | 11:20 |
| LaoLang_cool | No gui configure tools... | 11:20 |
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| LaoLang_cool | ok, after restart windows, still no luck... | 11:32 |
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| LaoLang_cool | I haven't done this step I think: got MADDE installed and configured for "Windows network" | 11:37 |
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| LaoLang_cool | I have got MADDE installed, but I don't know how to conifgure it | 11:37 |
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| chem|st | o/ | 11:42 |
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| LaoLang_cool | I can ping 192.168.2.15, but I can't ping google.com, I have set up the resolv.conf | 11:58 |
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| Pali | hi, it is possible to get reason why/who stopping init.d/event.d script? | 13:55 |
| Pali | I'd like to add option, if script is stopped by reboot/shutdown command or by user | 13:55 |
| Pali | or I'd like to handle SIGINT/SIGTERM command and decide what to do if system is in shutdown/reboot state... | 13:56 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, see ^^^ | 13:56 |
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| Pali | /sbin/runlevel is shell script which print only "N 2" | 14:06 |
| Pali | so it is unusable on upstart systems (like maemo) | 14:06 |
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| kerio | hm, what's the stuff in /etc/event.replace.d? | 14:18 |
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| Skry | kerio: is what fixable? | 14:35 |
| kerio | Skry: the voltage confusions | 14:36 |
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| Skry | sure, for now it is just a matter of reverting one commit, so cpufreq can round voltages so it can find a match from OPP | 14:37 |
| kerio | what would that entail? | 14:37 |
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| kerio | SR would be stable? | 14:37 |
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| Skry | No, SR is still unstable, it just makes cpufreq work without lockin up | 14:38 |
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| freemangordon | Skry: which kernel is that? | 14:39 |
| Skry | freemangordon: 3.6 and 3.5 | 14:40 |
| freemangordon | on n900? | 14:40 |
| Skry | yes | 14:40 |
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| freemangordon | i see. well, according to what I know, SR cannot be made stable using what TI has programmed in efuse | 14:41 |
| freemangordon | it is just garbadge | 14:41 |
| kerio | :( | 14:42 |
| Skry | true, with, n900 there is one certain voltage value which makes the device lockup | 14:42 |
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| freemangordon | Skry: the problem is that all devices have the same calibrations for OPP3-OPP5 | 14:42 |
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| freemangordon | Skry: the good news is that calibrations for OPP1 and OPP2 are ok ;) | 14:43 |
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| akls | is it possible to install rootsh on n900 without internet? | 14:44 |
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| freemangordon | Skry: so the rest can be extrapolated. look at my SR patch in KP if you are interested | 14:45 |
| kerio | akls: yeah | 14:45 |
| kerio | but rootsh is bad | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any netsplit detected? | 14:45 |
| kerio | :c | 14:45 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: kinda big netsplit, yes | 14:45 |
| akls | kerio, it's bad? then what should I use? | 14:45 |
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| Skry | freemangordon: I'm not that interested in SR, got the cpufreq fixed so that should be enough for now | 14:46 |
| kerio | akls: well, to be fair the intended way is to just enter r&d mode | 14:46 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders whether to reboot infobot | 14:46 | |
| akls | kerio, how? | 14:46 |
| kerio | akls: nah, that's a silly thing | 14:46 |
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| * kerio ponders about making a tiny .deb that installs a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ | 14:46 | |
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| akls | kerio, sudo flasher --enable-rd-mode ? | 14:47 |
| freemangordon | Skry: well, it is up to you, but SR is very very good thing to have working. | 14:47 |
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| kerio | freemangordon: wait, so is SR usable or not? | 14:47 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: where? | 14:47 |
| kerio | on my n900 | 14:47 |
| freemangordon | does it work? | 14:48 |
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| infobot | DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! | 14:48 |
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| kerio | it used to | 14:48 |
| kerio | then i disabled it, because everyone says that it's useless and/or instable | 14:48 |
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| kerio | akls: yep | 14:48 |
| freemangordon | kerio: now, who is that "everyone"? | 14:48 |
| kerio | "sudo gainroot" is always doable, but it checks for rd-mode | 14:49 |
| kerio | once you have a root shell, i'd manually add your own sudoers file | 14:49 |
| kerio | and then disable rd-mode | 14:49 |
| kerio | freemangordon: every sentient being in the universe | 14:49 |
| kerio | or maybe someone on the wiki | 14:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: please stop trolling akl | 14:51 |
| Skry | freemangordon: I have it enabled in "my" kernel so if user wants to use it he can enable it via sysfs, however, when engineers from both TI and Nokia say it is unstable and broken on 3430, it is unstable. Besides, I dont see any logic of using two separate methods to scale voltages at the same time. | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | akls even | 14:51 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: no, seriously, it works | 14:51 |
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| kerio | check /usr/sbin/gainroot and /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo | 14:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: how would you enable r&d flag? | 14:52 |
| kerio | the flasher? | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on device??? | 14:52 |
| kerio | from a computer | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah :-/ | 14:53 |
| kerio | so? | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | everybody got rootsh installed | 14:53 |
| kerio | not me | 14:53 |
| kerio | it's the reason i won't install qtmobilehotspot | 14:53 |
| kerio | it depends on that POS | 14:53 |
| kerio | i really hope it doesn't pipe commands to it | 14:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | akls: you might want to sanitize rootsh by enabling proper password query for commands "root" and "sudo gainroot". See | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 14:55 |
| infobot | methinks jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I hope you checked qtmobilehotspot and gave it proper rating in testing so it never makes it into maemo-extras | 14:56 |
| kerio | hmm... no i did not | 14:57 |
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| kerio | plenty of packages depend on rootsh | 14:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | then plenty of packages deserve demoting | 14:58 |
| kerio | including stuff like "optimizen900", "clean900", "nitroid-installer" | 14:58 |
| * kerio lols | 14:58 | |
| * DocScrutinizer05 pukes | 14:58 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | lrn2sudo, fools!!! | 14:59 |
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| kerio | how do i vote down? | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm tempted to roll a new version of rootsh that does things proper, incl asking for password, and then watch all that crap go down epically | 15:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | once stuff is in extras, you can't | 15:00 |
| vi_ | chinese li-ion charger==USB 5V charger with 0.8v Zener across the output. | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stuff in testing has rating buttons | 15:00 |
| kerio | qtmobilehotspot is in extras-testing and extras-devel | 15:00 |
| freemangordon | Skry: well, we have at least 2 proves that what YI and Noika say is not alwasy true - USB hostmode and thumb2 | 15:00 |
| vi_ | Relying on USB port maximum current to control current. | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: /o\ | 15:01 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/qtmobilehotspot/0.3.5/ | 15:01 |
| kerio | vote down plskthx | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: then go to extras-testing, add comment explaining why you give it thumbs-down | 15:01 |
| freemangordon | Skry: what is the other method to control voltages? | 15:01 |
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| Skry | freemangordon: cpufreq does both | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I first need to check it before voting it down | 15:02 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: Depends: [...] rootsh [...] | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | where? | 15:02 |
| freemangordon | Skry: aah, I see. But SR does a totally different thing | 15:02 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: in that page | 15:03 |
| kerio | qtmobilehotspot 0.3.5 | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 15:03 |
| kerio | >Promotion unlocked, waiting for maintainer to promote | 15:03 |
| kerio | oh hell naw | 15:03 |
| vi_ | I am late to the party, what is the argument? | 15:03 |
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| kerio | vi_: packages that depend on rootsh | 15:03 |
| vi_ | Also, SR and is stable and thumb rules. | 15:03 |
| vi_ | In addition to this, rootsh works fine. Deal with it. | 15:04 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: qradio depends on rootsh too, and that's in extras | 15:04 |
| freemangordon | vi_: just a note: SR is stable with KP ;) | 15:04 |
| kerio | vi_: rootsh is a massive kludge | 15:04 |
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| vi_ | freemangordon: Thats what I meant! | 15:05 |
| vi_ | kerio: IDGAF. | 15:05 |
| vi_ | Maemo5==A MASSIVE KLUDGE. | 15:05 |
| Skry | freemangordon: yeah, I know that, k hilman just convinced me that when cpufreq does the voltage scaling itself, benefits from SR would be minimal -> not worth the instability. Anyways, you were saying that problems with SR are caused by the same reason I had trouble with cpufreq? | 15:06 |
| akls | guys, I've just bought my phone | 15:06 |
| akls | and wireless is not working out of the box | 15:06 |
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| kerio | akls: it should | 15:06 |
| kerio | akls: anyway, have you installed the latest PR from nokia yet? | 15:06 |
| akls | I simply can't see any networks. My friend bought a phone with me - everything is fine on his phone | 15:06 |
| kerio | PR1.3 | 15:06 |
| akls | kerio, yes. | 15:06 |
| vi_ | akls: Is that supposed to be a question or an allusion to disgruntlement? | 15:07 |
| kerio | vi_: oh shush | 15:07 |
| kerio | akls: which region is your n900 from? | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | friggin testing pages always make me want to click "send" again, after 60s of waiting | 15:08 |
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| vi_ | akls: Re-flash to stock pr1.3 firmware to eliminate the possibillity of software and try again. If it still does not work, take it back. | 15:08 |
| kerio | akls: tried rebooting already? | 15:08 |
| akls | kerio, how could I know, bought it from ebay | 15:08 |
| akls | kerio, of course! | 15:08 |
| kerio | akls: have you done a full reflash? | 15:08 |
| akls | kerio, what's a "FULL" reflash? | 15:09 |
| kerio | flashed both VANILLA and COMBINED with flasher-3.5 | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any supertester around to vote down http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/qtmobilehotspot/0.3.5/ ? | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: ^^^? | 15:09 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: how did rootsh end up in extras anyway? | 15:11 |
| kerio | it has all the signs of a bad, bad, bad package | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's historical | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see who did it, and when | 15:12 |
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| kerio | Maintainers: Faheem Pervez, Pali Rohár | 15:13 |
| kerio | Pali: oh you | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tbh there's worse crap around: sudser etc | 15:13 |
| Pali | yes, I promoted new patched version to extras | 15:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: pali kinda fixed worst borkage of it | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc | 15:13 |
| Pali | in extras was old version which has broken postrm | 15:13 |
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| kerio | hm | 15:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: Pali: damage done by Faheem Pervez. All we can do now is roll a better-rootsh that also secures HAM via hildon-su and thus allows to really kinda get some little bit of sanity & security back on fremantle | 15:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hell, it can even conflict with rootsh (original) | 15:17 |
| Pali | no | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no? | 15:17 |
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| Pali | original rootsh is not packages | 15:17 |
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| Pali | *packaged | 15:17 |
| Pali | :D | 15:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | errr | 15:17 |
| Pali | original rootsh is only in FIASCO rootfs image | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you mean it's not a proper package with uninstall etc? | 15:18 |
| Pali | preinst script moving existing rootsh to new location | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 15:18 |
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| Pali | and postrm moving old roosh back | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean the rootsh from repo | 15:18 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you mean gainroot? | 15:18 |
| Pali | this doing extras rootsh package | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the package called rootsh | 15:19 |
| Pali | rootsh is package which provide gainroot | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/rootsh/1.8/ | 15:19 |
| kerio | not really, gainroot is provided by sudo | 15:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd really appreciate some help on creating a clean way to secure HAM, preferrably in a generic way by using some hildon-su | 15:21 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: are we allowed to modify HAM? | 15:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | why not | 15:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | cssu already did it, hell - pali did it | 15:22 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we need a better sudo | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I want a fremantle system with proper root password, and no way to install shit like rootsh that neuters it | 15:23 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: better sudo with askpass support (and maybe sudoers.d support so we don't need update-sudoers) | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm all for getting better (newer) sudo, that relieves us from pita of update-sudoers abomination | 15:23 |
| kerio | and then make HAM call sudo -A appropriate-graphical-password-asking-program apt-worker whatevs | 15:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 15:24 |
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| kerio | so proficient users can remove the passwordless sudo on apt-worker, and then it'll just ask for the password | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: you're still with us? :-) | 15:24 |
| RST38h | Moo,Doc | 15:25 |
| RST38h | Ah, fun, fun | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | moo RST38h | 15:25 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: actually it can be done without modifying HAM | 15:25 |
| kerio | we do need a password-asking binary though | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | call that hildon-su | 15:25 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: no, just a password asking | 15:26 |
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| RST38h | password asking, email sending binary | 15:27 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: in fact, with a good sudo that knows about the graphical askpass we don't need *any* modifications to HAM apart from the removal of NOPASSWD | 15:27 |
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| RST38h | what can be better than that? | 15:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: we discussed all this some days ago. There's zenity for now, and we concluded we'd need some modifications to HAM (to include -a, no hildon-su parameter needed since that can get passed by ENV), and we need sudo that supports -a | 15:28 |
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| kerio | can zenity ask for a password? | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:29 |
| kerio | brilliant | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even hides input | 15:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | zenity --help-entry | 15:30 |
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| kerio | it's trivial to make a zenity-askpass that does what sudo expects, yes | 15:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | zenity --entry --hide-text --text="please enter root password" | 15:30 |
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| Hurrian | kerio, ham alternative that directly uses apt? | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what sudo *would* expect - if sudo wasn't prehistoric crap | 15:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but you already remarked a few days ago that this method would ask for root password on each new interactive operation user does on HAM | 15:32 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: nope | 15:33 |
| kerio | we exploit sudo's timeout | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it still needs HAM to use "sudo -a apt-worker" instead of "sudo apt-worker" | 15:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ok, feasible | 15:33 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: modern sudos automatically call askpass if they're not on a tty | 15:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | OOOH! | 15:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 15:34 |
| kerio | and you can specify askpass in sudoers | 15:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 15:34 |
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| kerio | it's just an envvar | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I confused that with ENV | 15:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so who's going to provide sudo update for cssu? | 15:35 |
| kerio | cssu | 15:35 |
| kerio | easy | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, cssu is a project. it doesn't magically breed new packages | 15:36 |
| kerio | ok, the last person to say "not me" on irc | 15:36 |
| kerio | not me | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we need somebody willing to create and maintain new sudo | 15:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we also need further review of that concept. I'm not that self-confident to claim I already figured each possible security flaw it might hide | 15:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you already mentioned things like direct invocation of sudo apt-worker when I pondered to run HAM under root permissions, with hildon-su wrapper | 15:39 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, it would be the same | 15:39 |
| kerio | so at worst we have the same security | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we need proper review of our concept, by a few other sensible devels | 15:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I'm not going to mess with all that shit to end with "same security as before", you know ;-) | 15:40 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, the security will increase if the user removes NOPASSWD | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the purpose of this effort is to improve security | 15:41 |
| kerio | yeah but there's not even the *concept* of a user password in fremantle | 15:41 |
| kerio | by default | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | root password | 15:41 |
| kerio | yeah but there's not even the *concept* of a password in fremantle | 15:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | in hildon, right | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in fremantle, sure there is | 15:42 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: not as presented to the user | 15:42 |
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| kerio | today on #maemo: DocScrutinizer learns about sshd | 15:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 15:47 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 goes getting a coffee | 15:47 | |
| kerio | there's not even a /root/.ssh/ | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh? | 15:47 |
| kerio | i don't have it, i never ran ssh as root \_o_/ | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls -l ~root/.ssh/ | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | insgesamt 8 | 15:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1115 2007-11-15 21:07 authorized_keys | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2136 2012-04-22 12:50 known_hosts | 15:48 |
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| kerio | sure, but that's unrelated to what sshd does | 15:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, that's why the folder is named .ssh | 15:49 |
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| kerio | ssh*d* | 15:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | pff | 15:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | guess where sshd will look for authorized_keys when I log in a s root | 15:49 |
| kerio | guess how related *that* is to the identification of the server by ssh | 15:50 |
| kerio | ssh's identification goes both ways | 15:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | shit | 15:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | guess where sshd will look for authorized_keys when I log in a s root | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're right that's not the host authentication key | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [Notice] -christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, not only would it seem that Christmas came early this year, we must also have been much nicer than we thought! We're receiving a steady stream of packets at present and apologise for any inconvenience whilst we try work around the issue! Again, sorry and thank you for using freenode! | 15:54 |
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| jaska | xmas packets | 15:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, kicked me out | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: still alive? | 15:59 |
| kerio | nope :( | 15:59 |
| kerio | a sniper killed me | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 15:59 |
| kerio | now i inhabit my laptop | 15:59 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 sends hypersnyper | 15:59 | |
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| kerio | anyway, yeah, you were wrong :3 | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, publicly admitting you were right about auth key | 16:00 |
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| kerio | ~kerio | 16:00 |
| infobot | you are probably <DocScrutinizer> [...] kerio is correct [...] | 16:00 |
| kerio | the power of ellipses! | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you however were wrong about ~/.ssh being unrelated to sshd | 16:02 |
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| kerio | well of course, authorized_keys is to login with a keypair | 16:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | since ~/.ssh/authorized_keys evidently is used by sshd | 16:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | now for something completely new and different: hildon-su and contemporary proper sudo binary | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for sudo binary I bet any increase in size will be ballanced by reduced size of /etc/sudoers messed up file | 16:04 |
| kerio | hildon-askpass | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | crap | 16:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I already told you (and you noticed it) that hildon-askpass has no option to switch it to only one password textbox | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shall I scan the chanlog? | 16:06 |
| kerio | no, that's maemo-ask-password or something | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for hysterical raisins that class of programs is named <desktop>-su, or <desktop>su: KDEsu | 16:07 |
| kerio | k | 16:07 |
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| kerio | can't we just get gksu compiled for maem? | 16:07 |
| kerio | *maemo | 16:07 |
| kerio | i still don't get which toolkit we're supposed to use on the n900 | 16:08 |
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| Skry | i'd like to know that too | 16:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously on fremantle we're free to use gtk or qt or qtm | 16:10 |
| Skry | yeah but which is the recommended one | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with each of them supported by a number of toolkits, like pyqt | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | recommended? seems qt is most preferred one, generally | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: would you see any chance you throw "new" sudo into maemo make machine? | 16:15 |
| Pali | sorry, no time for other project | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | k | 16:15 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if it will work to simply scp user@oldbox/scratchbox / | 16:17 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | rather, if scratchbox will work on new machine | 16:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (given both machines use basically same distro) | 16:18 |
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| dhbiker | hm | 16:23 |
| dhbiker | just updated my n900 | 16:23 |
| dhbiker | and now it doesnt want connect to internet | 16:23 |
| dhbiker | :/ | 16:23 |
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| dhbiker | says No connections availible | 16:27 |
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| kerio | dhbiker: reboot? | 16:31 |
| dhbiker | already did | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | updated from ? to ? | 16:32 |
| dhbiker | cssu testing to 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo5.1 | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dhbiker: you observerd [general notice]? | 16:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1264963#post1264963 ff | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dhbiker: your "settings -> about_CSSU" shows 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo5.1? | 16:35 |
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| dhbiker | i did so | 16:37 |
| dhbiker | opername widget | 16:37 |
| dhbiker | then cssu | 16:37 |
| dhbiker | and yes | 16:37 |
| vi_ | so, after dis-assembling this chinese USB charger I have found the 5V output is wired backwards. | 16:39 |
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| kerio | vi_: lol | 16:39 |
| vi_ | Yes, wired backwards. | 16:39 |
| Skry | :D | 16:39 |
| vi_ | What 'engineer' comes up with this shit? | 16:40 |
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| dhbiker | DocScrutinizer05: so this means restore the backupmenu backup ? -.- | 16:40 |
| kerio | the PRC didn't get this far by double-checking the connectors | 16:40 |
| vi_ | How can they look their wives in the face and say, 'yes, I had a good day today honey'. | 16:40 |
| kerio | dhbiker: not really | 16:40 |
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| kerio | i have no idea how to diagnose an ICD2 problem | 16:41 |
| dhbiker | probably the easiest wa | 16:41 |
| dhbiker | y | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dhbiker: I don't see why your system has problems | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway restoring BM backup and restarting all over again seems a sane idea | 16:41 |
| dhbiker | k | 16:42 |
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| dhbiker | copying the backup to phone | 16:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dhbiker: you know this should be done in BM as well? | 16:42 |
| vi_ | I just threw out a rattly 18650 cell. | 16:42 |
| dhbiker | oh ? | 16:42 |
| vi_ | Yes, rattly. | 16:42 |
| vi_ | They had put a tiny battery in an 18650 size tube. | 16:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seen similar crap every now and then | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | very popular: use AAA NiMH cell in a A case | 16:44 |
| kerio | vi_: that's hilarious | 16:44 |
| dhbiker | lolol | 16:44 |
| vi_ | I knew these batteries were utter shit as soon as I saw the '3800mAH' written on the side. | 16:44 |
| vi_ | But this? | 16:45 |
| vi_ | My brain cannot handle bullshit of this magnitude. | 16:45 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 16:45 |
| ShadowJK | they used to wrap it in paper to avoid rattling | 16:46 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: backupmenu only charges with .5A, right? | 16:46 |
| vi_ | There is an economic depression on you knw. | 16:46 |
| vi_ | Cannot waste good paper these days. | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: probably | 16:46 |
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| kerio | yeah, otherwise there would be no way to use usb MSM and stuff like that | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | vi_; some people would argue anyone buying a "3800 mAh" 18650 deserves to have it blow off their hand | 16:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: your brain refuses to acknowledge they pulled a fast one on you | 16:47 |
| * kerio buys an AAA in a 18650 case marked as "very original fusion power infinite battery" | 16:47 | |
| vi_ | I did not specifically buy it, it came with some random tat I bought from China. | 16:48 |
| kerio | I BET THIS WILL WORK GUISE | 16:48 |
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| vi_ | But I do recognise them as the batteries that have exploded from a thread on a flashlight forum. | 16:49 |
| vi_ | In that case the flashlight had 3 18650 in series. | 16:49 |
| vi_ | One cell had reversed polarity. | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err the one that nuked the balkony? | 16:49 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: No, it nuked some old guys hands. | 16:49 |
| kerio | :c | 16:49 |
| kerio | poor dude | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-(( | 16:50 |
| vi_ | Severe burns, nothing more. | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: link? | 16:50 |
| vi_ | let me try. | 16:50 |
| vi_ | http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?280909-Ultrafire-18650-3000mA-exploded | 16:51 |
| teotwaki | Whenever I see something like that in a forum, I'm reminded of the alleged samsung s3 that exploded | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FUUUUUUUU...ck, sftp oldbox /scratchbox to newbox. oldbox /scratchbox: 4.7G. newbox /scratchbox: 5GB and counting :-/ | 16:53 |
| teotwaki | when really, the guy dunked it into the water. | 16:53 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i heard you like symlinks | 16:53 |
| teotwaki | AND THEN thought it would be a good idea to connect it to a powerline | 16:53 |
| jaska | or hardlinks | 16:53 |
| jaska | and bindmounts :) | 16:53 |
| vi_ | teotwaki: Seriously? | 16:53 |
| teotwaki | aye | 16:54 |
| teotwaki | He accused samsung of selling faulty devices | 16:54 |
| teotwaki | blogged about it | 16:54 |
| teotwaki | Samsung sent a VP over to give him a new one | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no bindmounts, scratchbox not started | 16:54 |
| teotwaki | And then, samsung, looking closely at the device, said "Wait a minute, this device didn't explode" | 16:54 |
| vi_ | I know people in general do not have a clue about electronics but you think they would grasp electricity+water==mega fail. | 16:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and >> -r Recursively copy entire directories when uploading and downloading. Note that sftp does not follow symbolic links encountered in the tree traver- sal. | 16:56 |
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| dhbiker | there we go | 16:56 |
| dhbiker | restored backup | 16:57 |
| dhbiker | now to the update part again xD | 16:57 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: \_o_/ | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 17:02 |
| kerio | transparent compression? | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 4.7gb -> 6.5GB and counting | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how many hardlinks could be in there that du actually notices? | 17:04 |
| kerio | idk | 17:04 |
| kerio | a lot, apparently | 17:04 |
| kerio | most importantly, how many hardlinks are in there that you're not remaking here? | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui sftp doesn't even know about hardlinks | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hardlinks are pretty hard to handle | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 17:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no pointer on inode entry A->(somefile) to tell about arbitrary B->(samefile) | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically you have to check *all* inode entries on that volume, for those that have same data inode number | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only clue is counter about total number of inode entries pointing to that file | 17:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so, to copy, your program needs to enter each inode number of a file that has inode count >1 to a list, and before that check if the list already has same inode number for another file | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in that case don't copy data but rather create hardlink to the already existing other file | 17:09 |
| kerio | does scp do that? | 17:11 |
| jaska | tar knows about them | 17:12 |
| Pali | FAIL, maemo system can be unbootable after calling reboot/halt/poweroff/shutdown | 17:13 |
| Pali | problem is that dsme is exited abnormal if is killed by init in shutdown process | 17:13 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: btw, why are you using scp? | 17:13 |
| kerio | this is a local transfer, right? | 17:14 |
| Pali | I saw this problem, sometimes when I called sudo reboot phone was rebooted and then somebody turned it off before X started | 17:14 |
| kerio | Pali: damn, are you sure about that? | 17:14 |
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| Pali | dsme sending broadcast messages that system going offline | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: sftp | 17:15 |
| Pali | and some processes like hildon-* doing some stuff on it | 17:15 |
| Pali | and dsme storing STATE file | 17:15 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: what happened to tar jv dir | nc foo 31337? | 17:15 |
| Pali | when soembody tell that DSME should shutdown system | 17:15 |
| kerio | by the way, why isn't /tmp a tmpfs? | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it fell apart due to lack of inner coherence | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: (tmpfs) maybe because we're already short on free memory? | 17:17 |
| Pali | I'm suggesting to create wrapper around UPSTART /sbin/shutdown utility which will call DSME reboot/shutdown function | 17:17 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: and we can't spare 100K? | 17:17 |
| iluminator105 | how do you enable front facing camera to be on for surveillance | 17:17 |
| kerio | right now my /tmp is 84K | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | open a pdf in browser and see what your tmp is like, then | 17:18 |
| Lava_Croft | 1349 < divVerent> in busybox it's a forkbomb too | 17:18 |
| Lava_Croft | 1350 < divVerent> change the 1024 to 1048576 for nice forkbomb effect ;) | 17:18 |
| Lava_Croft | 1356 < divVerent> #!/bin/busybox sh | 17:18 |
| Lava_Croft | 1356 < divVerent> S=`yes | head -n 32769`; while :; do exec <<EOF; done | 17:18 |
| Lava_Croft | 1356 < divVerent> $S | 17:18 |
| Lava_Croft | 1356 < divVerent> EOF | 17:18 |
| Lava_Croft | 1356 < divVerent> here it is, the busybox forkbomb :P | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, nice, but... what it's good for now? | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and which 1024 to change? | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | max-processes? | 17:20 |
| Lava_Croft | http://dpaste.com/799895/ | 17:21 |
| vi_ | I like my forkbomb better | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sftp finished at du -sh /scratchbox ->6.5GB | 17:23 |
| kerio | wtf is /sys/kernel/debug | 17:24 |
| kerio | what's nodev? | 17:24 |
| jaska | no device nodes allowed | 17:24 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, what do you think? /sbin/shutdown is upstart ELF utility. We can move this program to /sbin/shutdown.real and implement wrapper which call dsme shutdown/reboot function only once. Next time will be called real ulility | 17:24 |
| kerio | jaska: nodev on /sys/kernel/debug type debugfs (0) | 17:24 |
| jaska | you cant make things like tty1 or sda etc there | 17:24 |
| jaska | debugfs is used for some twiddling of kernel stuff, not sure of the use on n900 myself | 17:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | fsckng sftp has a bug | 17:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | <tab< filename expansion doesn't work, it's dropping one (next) char | 17:26 |
| Lava_Croft | cough http://i.imgur.com/KfDoU.jpg | 17:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but kinda true | 17:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders what type of touchpanel digitizer they use on hooker920 | 17:39 | |
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| jargon- | it's driving me nuts.trying to update the cssu and i can't seem to get passed making a backup. then when i go back to the update,it prompts me to make a backup | 17:55 |
| tadzik | read GENERAL NOTICE :) | 17:55 |
| tadzik | tl;dr: update the operator name widget first | 17:55 |
| jargon- | oh | 17:55 |
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| jargon- | tadzik: thanks | 17:57 |
| tadzik | you're welcome | 17:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1264963#post1264963 ff | 18:04 |
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| * tadzik wonders if the trailing "ff" is related to "ffs" | 18:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a common (latin?) tla(?) | 18:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | f: the one that follows. ff: the following (more than one) | 18:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's of same class like etc, et al ... | 18:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nb | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sic | 18:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_abbreviations | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | folio | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>This abbreviation is used in citations to indicate an unspecified number of following pages following, Example: see page 258ff.<< | 18:10 |
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| kerio | tadzik: "ffs" is "for fuck's sake" | 18:17 |
| kerio | completely unrelated to pages | 18:17 |
| Skry | also fast file system, completely unrelated too | 18:18 |
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| Pali | this should fix reboot requests: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/upstart/commit/a5a91a61aa9cba8af960b6a0dff083a233bc6200 | 18:24 |
| Pali | dsme will see reboot request and send broadcast signal | 18:24 |
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| tadzik | kerio: I know what it is, I wondered if "ff" is related to it | 18:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ??? | 19:24 |
| Pali | ??? | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your last 2 posts | 19:24 |
| Pali | patch for that dsme | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<Pali> this should fix reboot requests...)) | 19:24 |
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| Pali | see my previous posts in log | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't know there's anything wrong with reboot | 19:25 |
| Pali | problem is that DSME storing state to state file | 19:25 |
| Pali | and if dsme got SIGINT/TERM signal then it does not store state | 19:25 |
| Pali | and then you call reboot then dsme does not handle it and init daemon will kill dsme | 19:26 |
| Pali | when you use dsmetool -b or other hildon method for reboot, it tell DSME that system going to shutdown/restart | 19:27 |
| Pali | dsme will send broadcast messages to all client to save data and prepair for shutdown/reboot | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reboot command is deprecated | 19:27 |
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| Pali | where? | 19:28 |
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| Pali | reboot/poweroff/halt are still used on unixes | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not on fremantle | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's known that reboot does a hard reboot | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why it's called mini-reboot I guess | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err minishutdown | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually, if anything, dsme -b should call minishutdown (after finishing whatever dsme does), not the other way round | 19:34 |
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| Pali | no | 19:42 |
| Pali | dsmetool -b doing "proper" reboot | 19:42 |
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| Pali | reboot tell upstart to start killing running daemons (like on desktop) | 19:43 |
| Pali | but dsme badly handle SIGTERM and SIGINT signals | 19:43 |
| Pali | and more application depends on dbus broadcast signal sent by dsme | 19:44 |
| Pali | mini-reboot/mini-shutdown is called when reboot application cannot talk to upstart | 19:44 |
| Pali | we only need to handle situation when somebody call reboot/shutdown to tell this also dsme | 19:45 |
| Pali | and my patch fixing it for reboot | 19:45 |
| Pali | reboot calling telinit 6 and here is added line dsmetool -b | 19:45 |
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| Pali | dsmetool does not have flag for "shutdown", but we can find dbus menthod which is used by "power off" button | 19:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | reboot is deprecated | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on fremantle | 19:57 |
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| Pali | this patch should fix it | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the hierarchy is dsme > upstart > init | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reboot is *meant* to do hard shutdown | 19:58 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: but upstart *is* init! | 19:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I meant init.d/* scripts | 19:58 |
| kerio | i see | 19:58 |
| Pali | dsmetool -b doing this: change dsme state to reboot, send application dbus signal, tell upstart to reboot system | 19:59 |
| Pali | reboot doing this: tell upstart to reboot system | 19:59 |
| kerio | Pali: is upstart smart enough to ignore the command to reboot while it's already rebooting? | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, it's one level lower in hierarchy | 20:00 |
| Pali | kerio, new upstart | 20:00 |
| Pali | yes | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | upstart is not aloowed to kill dsme | 20:00 |
| Pali | upstart killing dsme | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you actually *want* hard shutdown | 20:00 |
| Pali | ok | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: yes, and a kill -SIGKILL 1 is even more hard than dsme getting killed by upstart. Yet it's not the recommended way to do things, like using reboot command is not recommended to do polite reboot | 20:03 |
| Pali | no, hard shutdown is /etc/init.d/minishutdown | 20:03 |
| kerio | wait, i can't "sudo reboot" and have it do a clean reboot? | 20:03 |
| kerio | wtf | 20:03 |
| Pali | yes | 20:04 |
| Pali | you can test my patch | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: reboot is deprecated | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use dsme -b | 20:04 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it's fscking **reboot** | 20:04 |
| kerio | is shutdown the same thing? | 20:04 |
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| Skry | I find it somewhat sick that you need a patch to make reboot work like it should | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's pretty much same as on any desktop | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | KDE won't handle nice any init 6 call | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or reboot, for that matter | 20:05 |
| entitled | kill, kill 'em all! | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's aways 'highest' system that's supposed to do gentle shutdown/reboot. NOT low level systems like init/upstart telling KDE/dsme/hildon-desktop to fsckng quit now | 20:06 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: at the very least i expect KDE not to refuse to launch correctly after it's been SIGTERMed/SIGKILLed by init | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | haha, good luck | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's exactly what will NOT happen, if you for example configured KDE to restore last session | 20:09 |
| kerio | :s | 20:09 |
| kerio | what will happen? | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | undefined | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | init sends all processes sigint, then after 10s kills all porcesses hard. Whataver state they reached meanwhile | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err sigterm? | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | depends on your session what KDE got done during that time | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not meant to be the normal usecase anyway | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you won't see much appreciation for fixing init to wait for KDE to finish | 20:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | NAME | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | halt, reboot, poweroff - stop the system. | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DESCRIPTION | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Halt notes that the system is being brought down in the file /var/log/wtmp, and then either tells the kernel to halt, reboot or poweroff the system. | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nuttin else, nuttin beyond, no gentle bells & whistles | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the way this got implemented changed slightly with upstart and then again with systemd, the semantics stay the same | 20:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | also see man 8 shutdown: >>... All processes are first notified that the system is going down by the signal SIGTERM. This gives programs like vi(1) the time to save the file being edited, mail and news processing programs a chance to exit cleanly, etc. ...<< NB there's NO feedback about any of those programs actually finished their thing to die. There's no (official) way to stop shutdown from killing all processes hard after 5 | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or 10 seconds, or actually just shut down telinit | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why KDE calls shutdown, not shutdown quits KDE, if you're trying to use recommended way to shutdown system. Same for fremantle and dsme/hildon/whatever | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dsme invokes lower level where initctl and reboot live, NOT reboot tells dsme and waits for it to finish | 20:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and hildon-home/whatever GUI in turn invokes dsme -b (or similar high level function) when you select "power down" or "reboot" on desktop in menu | 22:34 |
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| akls | Hello! I have exactly the same problem: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81760 | 22:35 |
| akls | but there's no fix... | 22:35 |
| akls | is there a way to see if a wlan chip is broken or something else is causing it? | 22:36 |
| akls | As it is stated in the thread | 22:36 |
| akls | it's a brand new phone | 22:36 |
| akls | I bought it from ebay so sending it back may cost a lot, so I'm looking for a way to fix it | 22:36 |
| kerio | akls: ouch :c | 22:38 |
| kerio | does dmesg say something? | 22:38 |
| akls | it says a lot | 22:39 |
| akls | what should I look for? | 22:39 |
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| kerio | the very end | 22:39 |
| kerio | anything related to wlan | 22:39 |
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| akls | hmm | 22:39 |
| akls | the worst part is that I got two phones | 22:40 |
| akls | another one is working :( | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | make sure you did a _successful_ _full_ reflash, and maybe don't use ifconfig to play with wlan, rather use settings->internet-connections | 22:40 |
| dreamer | h, wrong discussion :P | 22:41 |
| akls | hmm, no, nothing in dmesg | 22:41 |
| dreamer | oops | 22:41 |
| dreamer | ignore everything I said in the last few lines ^_^ | 22:41 |
| akls | DocScrutinizer05, there's nothing in these settings | 22:42 |
| akls | nothing useful at leas | 22:42 |
| akls | t | 22:42 |
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| akls | bluetooth is not working as well | 22:42 |
| akls | about reflashing... I will reflash as soon as I get another battery or charger, because my charger stopped working somehow | 22:43 |
| akls | and it doesn't want to charge from usb | 22:43 |
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| akls | so, is there any way to confirm that my wireless chip is broken? | 22:44 |
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| kerio | akls: was it a used n900? | 23:00 |
| kerio | it's a lot more likely that your usb port is busted | 23:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | or system general problem (ram, NAND, fs corruption, swap missing...) | 23:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | akls: you should do a full reflash (vanilla and combined), post the protocol of this to pastebin and link here for checking | 23:06 |
| akls | kerio, no, it was a new telephone | 23:06 |
| akls | DocScrutinizer05, did a full reflash, nothing | 23:06 |
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| akls | protocol.. what's a protocol? | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | then boot up device and pastebin output of dmesg | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and linl here | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | link* | 23:07 |
| akls | thats a hard task to do without the internet | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | the complete display on your terminal screen | 23:08 |
| kerio | he might have a point | 23:08 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer51, I see that BME setting charge current sense voltage to 550mV, but shadowjk charge21.sh script 950mV | 23:08 |
| Pali | it is safe? | 23:08 |
| Pali | and BME set termination current sense voltage to 100mV and charge21.sh 150mV | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry, can't check right now | 23:09 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer51, ok write later | 23:09 |
| nox- | akls, copy to microsd card? | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I don't know about mV for current | 23:09 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer51, only these 2 differences are in bme and charge21.sh script | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | there's no such thing | 23:10 |
| Pali | now bq2415x_charger.ko using same values as charge21.sh | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you probalygot confused about the unit uVblabla for termination and charge current | 23:11 |
| Pali | here is small shell script which write bq2415x chip info: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/charger_print.sh | 23:12 |
| Pali | compatible with and without bq2415x kernel driver | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | see footnote 1 and 2 in datasheet | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | err sorry thats bq27200 | 23:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | bbl | 23:13 |
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| akls | how to cd to ".documents" folder? | 23:24 |
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| akls | or any other folder that is visible from "Mass Storage" mode | 23:27 |
| akls | without sd card | 23:27 |
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| nox- | that should be in ~/MyDocs | 23:28 |
| akls | right | 23:31 |
| akls | DocScrutinizer05, kerio https://dl.dropbox.com/u/71236259/dmesg.txt | 23:34 |
| akls | anything else? | 23:34 |
| kerio | hm, the CMT messages don't sound healthy | 23:35 |
| akls | kerio, and what does it mean? | 23:36 |
| kerio | akls: does the phone work? | 23:36 |
| Pali | "* CMT rst line change detected (0)" | 23:36 |
| akls | kerio, yes, as I stated | 23:36 |
| akls | everything works except for the wireless | 23:36 |
| akls | wifi | 23:36 |
| akls | and probably bluetooth, but I'm not sure | 23:36 |
| Pali | "misc iphb: Module registered in 2.6.28-omap1, built Oct 28 2009 15:33:55" | 23:36 |
| Pali | seems like PR1.0 | 23:37 |
| akls | Pali, yep, that's the oldest one. | 23:37 |
| akls | I got this phone today, wifi was not working | 23:37 |
| akls | then I updated to the latest 1.3 | 23:37 |
| akls | still nothing | 23:37 |
| akls | now I reflashed it to the oldest one | 23:37 |
| akls | and it doesn't work.. | 23:37 |
| akls | anything else I can do? | 23:38 |
| freemangordon | akls: flash the latest FW | 23:38 |
| freemangordon | for your region | 23:38 |
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| akls | for Global, right? :D | 23:38 |
| freemangordon | akls: NFC, you should know :P | 23:39 |
| akls | well, ok, I'll flash it now | 23:40 |
| akls | but still, how can I verify that wifi is totally broken? | 23:40 |
| akls | ifconfig wlan0 shows a mac address but nothing else | 23:40 |
| Pali | [ 80.588653] wl1251: loaded | 23:40 |
| Pali | [ 80.589416] wl1251: initialized | 23:40 |
| Pali | no more about wl1251 | 23:40 |
| akls | yep | 23:40 |
| freemangordon | akls: what happens if you try to connect to wifi network? | 23:41 |
| akls | freemangordon, oh | 23:41 |
| freemangordon | (i am late to the party) | 23:41 |
| akls | <akls> Hello! I have exactly the same problem: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81760 | 23:41 |
| akls | <akls> but there's no fix... | 23:41 |
| Pali | $ iwlist scan | 23:41 |
| akls | that guy has 100% same problem | 23:41 |
| akls | I don't think that I have wireless-tools installed... | 23:41 |
| freemangordon | akls: yeah, I see | 23:42 |
| akls | but as stated in the forum thread using "ifconfig wlan0 up" locks and leads to other problems like file manager not working | 23:42 |
| freemangordon | akls: anyway, Pali is more experienced than me re wifi | 23:43 |
| Pali | that problem from TMO post is in hw | 23:44 |
| kerio | WTF | 23:44 |
| freemangordon | Pali: yeah, seems so | 23:44 |
| kerio | why does enigma believe it's ok to take 3mb in the rootfs for a fucking game? | 23:44 |
| Pali | ifconfig wlan0 up should not freeze system | 23:44 |
| akls | Pali, so it's broken and I can throw it away? | 23:44 |
| akls | damn | 23:45 |
| freemangordon | akls: connect external wifi :P | 23:45 |
| freemangordon | usb dongle that is | 23:45 |
| Pali | you can try to reflash pr1.3 + vanilla emmc image | 23:45 |
| akls | awesome... | 23:45 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 23:45 |
| akls | Pali, that's what I had | 23:45 |
| akls | some time ago | 23:45 |
| freemangordon | Pali: though I wonder why the phone still works | 23:45 |
| akls | freemangordon, yep, it's working just fine for the exception of file manager | 23:46 |
| akls | and root console | 23:46 |
| akls | oh, and default console is not working as well.. | 23:46 |
| freemangordon | akls: something is wrong there, you should not be able to use phone if you have downgraded from pr13 | 23:46 |
| Pali | why not? | 23:46 |
| akls | freemangordon, why? | 23:46 |
| freemangordon | something with CMT | 23:46 |
| akls | I don't know which firmware I had by default | 23:47 |
| Pali | complete flash also flash cmt firmware | 23:47 |
| akls | but I upgraded it to 1.3 | 23:47 |
| freemangordon | Pali: there is some remnants IIRC | 23:47 |
| akls | and them completely reflashed to the oldest one hoping that something is going to change | 23:47 |
| akls | then* | 23:47 |
| Pali | ok | 23:47 |
| Pali | I'm going offline | 23:47 |
| freemangordon | Pali: CAL, CMT FW or something which cannot be downgraded | 23:48 |
| akls | alright, so I'll contact a guy who sold this one to me. | 23:48 |
| Pali | ok | 23:48 |
| akls | thank you very much for your help | 23:48 |
| freemangordon | akls: try to flash pr13 first | 23:48 |
| Pali | freemangordon, all bme packages are pushed to gitorious project | 23:48 |
| Pali | only libbmeipc is not fully yet | 23:48 |
| Pali | I will done it later | 23:48 |
| freemangordon | Pali: gret, unfortunately I am in process of doing a new -thumb update | 23:48 |
| akls | freemangordon, alright. But I'll go offline. If it will work - then I'll come back and tell you how happy I am | 23:48 |
| Pali | bye | 23:49 |
| akls | but I'm pretty sure that it's not going to happen ;) | 23:49 |
| freemangordon | won't have time in couple of days :( | 23:49 |
| freemangordon | bye | 23:49 |
| akls | ;) | 23:49 |
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| vi__ | how do i kill browserd? | 23:51 |
| freemangordon | with a gun? | 23:51 |
| vi__ | is it dsme that keeps resurrecting it? | 23:51 |
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| freemangordon | vi__: dsme -k or something | 23:51 |
| freemangordon | or dsmetool -k | 23:51 |
| * vi__ shoots n900, solves all his problems with 1 bullet. | 23:51 | |
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| freemangordon | vi__: a better idea: break it using your n950 as a hammer :P | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | downgrading on cmt doesn't usually work! | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so ffs flash PR1.3 combined and latest(!) vanilla | 23:54 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: yes, that is why I wonder what did he upgrade | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry dude, support for PR1.0 discontinued | 23:55 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: he is not here :D | 23:55 |
| freemangordon | anyway, I am off | 23:55 |
| freemangordon | night | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | night fmg | 23:55 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: ! | 23:56 |
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| vi__ | DIE BROWSERD ASSWIPE | 23:59 |
| kerio | nooo :( | 23:59 |
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