| DocScrutinizer05 | to change your nick to something less lame? | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| vi___ | DocScrutinizer05: you are killing all fun | 00:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | killing fun is so much fun | 00:04 |
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| OxDEADBEEF | so nothing is new then? | 00:06 |
| OxDEADBEEF | dont go and see that new movie 'the raven' | 00:09 |
| OxDEADBEEF | it sucks so many asses. | 00:09 |
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| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: u are not Elop's buddy, you can't call him by name? | 00:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | vi_: sold your n950? | 00:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | ~seen MohammadAG | 00:30 |
| infobot | mohammadag <~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 1d 6h 8m 23s ago, saying: 'if the screen is off the device is probably locked'. | 00:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: | 00:43 |
| robbiethe1st | ? | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-09-02 23:38:09] <DocScrutinizer05> DANG! there's a armel fiaco-gen pkg!!! | 00:43 |
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| robbiethe1st | Link? | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-09-02 23:39:10] <DocScrutinizer05> so BM might *finally* learn to create proper self-containing fiasco images - incl kernel and all \o/ | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/sdk-fiasco-gen/ | 00:44 |
| kerio | robbiethe1st: do eeeeeeet | 00:44 |
| kerio | robbiethe1st: also, can you fix the thing where i can't access the shell inside BM because both root's and user's login shells are bash? | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-09-02 23:40:07] <DocScrutinizer05> could even create a shellscript for x86 that even contains flasher-3.5 --- BM "create full fiasco". ass rage copy BMfiasco_2012-09-02.sh to PC. In case of desaster just run it in shell --- or store to uSD in N900. In case swap uSD to PC and run BMfiasco_2012-09-02.sh to restore | 00:45 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it's not that easy to make ubifs images | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ummm | 00:46 |
| kerio | ubi is /weird as fuck/ | 00:46 |
| robbiethe1st | Actually, good point there. I've done it a couple times; I forget what I had to do exactly, but it required a Linux PC as well... | 00:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd guess finding out about how to create ubi image from a ubifs device like / should be possible | 00:51 |
| robbiethe1st | Check first page of my bm topic | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if we mamange to create rootfs image from fresh device that's identical to one image extracted from fiasco, we should be fine with modified rootfs as well | 00:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: check for what specifically? | 00:53 |
| robbiethe1st | I've already /made/ a flashable rootfs | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not extracted from fiasco biut actually *made*? | 00:53 |
| robbiethe1st | It's just not quite as compressed(IIRC), and also reqired a Linux PC with a specific version of mtd-utils to do it | 00:54 |
| robbiethe1st | Yup | 00:54 |
| kerio | oh, from the files | 00:54 |
| kerio | neat | 00:54 |
| kerio | ...wait, mtd-utils? | 00:54 |
| kerio | no | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pah! we'll get that special version of mtd-tools to N900 | 00:54 |
| kerio | you don't flash ubi volumes like that :S | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually you might | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mtd-read might be involved into the trick, but I fail to see how that's running on X86 then | 00:55 |
| kerio | no, you're supposed to ubimkvol and ubiupdatevol or something | 00:55 |
| robbiethe1st | see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975&page=1 "Can I restore my BackupMenu images through the Nokia Flasher?" | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you're a real delight today | 00:55 |
| kerio | http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/ubifs.html#L_mkfubifs | 00:56 |
| kerio | ty | 00:56 |
| robbiethe1st | Uses mkfs.ubifs / ubinize to make it | 00:56 |
| kerio | then it's cool :D | 00:57 |
| robbiethe1st | Which come from mtd-utils. | 00:57 |
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| kerio | ...it's still in mtd-utils? :o | 00:57 |
| kerio | huh, it is | 00:57 |
| robbiethe1st | On Ubuntu(as of the time I wrote it)? Yes | 00:57 |
| kerio | yep, same on debian | 00:58 |
| robbiethe1st | Heck, want to do something? Make a nice little script that can turn a BM rootfs tarball into a flashable image on device. | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mkfs.ubifs -m 2048 -e 129024 -c 2047 -R 4MiB -r ./rootfs/ -v ./base.ubi.img | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should work on N900 in BM 'live' | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ubinize -o ./rootfs.img ubinize.cfg -m 2048 -p 128KiB -s 512 | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no need for PC | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just need "working" mtd-utils on N900 | 01:00 |
| robbiethe1st | ^^ | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually working mkfs.ubifs and ubinize | 01:00 |
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| kerio | well, the binaries are there | 01:00 |
| kerio | but they're not in the BM chroot jail - would they have to be in ram? | 01:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | probably | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, ubinize and mkfs.ubifs are available here as well | 01:02 |
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| kerio | the thing is, it's better for the flash to do what BM has been doing | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 01:03 |
| kerio | ubifs does wear levelling and keeps track of writes | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're not writing to ubifs | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're reading it | 01:04 |
| kerio | no, i mean | 01:04 |
| kerio | it's better to do rm -rf and then cp | 01:04 |
| kerio | i think | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | heh? | 01:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | how's that fitting into flasher-3.5 -f -F myBMfiasco.bin ? | 01:05 |
| kerio | ubifs keeps track of writes/erases and does wear-levelling based on that | 01:05 |
| kerio | flashing erases that information | 01:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's what flashing does | 01:07 |
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| kerio | yeah | 01:07 |
| kerio | but it's better *not* to do that :) | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | given there's a working wear leveling, there can't be a wear debit on any page. So flashing will just happen to an equally worn out NAND | 01:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not like ubi will accumulate wear on one sector, to switch to next sector once the first one reached a certain threshold | 01:09 |
| kerio | no, quite the opposite :) | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so where's the info that gets lost on flashing? | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, flashing *might* write 20% more pages than cp * | 01:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but hey, that's why it's called flashing | 01:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and _for_sure_ flashing myBMfiasco.bin will be less wear to NAND than flashing fiasco-combined-2010-36-2.bin with an *additional* restore cp * from BM | 01:12 |
| kerio | hm | 01:12 |
| kerio | meh, that's a good point | 01:12 |
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| kerio | robbiethe1st: feature request: BM that can be loaded in ram from flasher | 01:12 |
| kerio | that would be *sweet* | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 01:13 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: rescue-os but with backupmenu | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if your fs is corrupt, no BM untar will correct that | 01:14 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: only the rootfs can be corrupt | 01:14 |
| kerio | i mean | 01:14 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: only the rootfs can be corrupt and cause a problem | 01:14 |
| kerio | optfs is mkfsed | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so it's again flashing ubi that does a lot of magic (also flashing vfat btw, since that's a PITA to fsck) | 01:15 |
| kerio | and if i had a working shell in backupmenu, i could remake the rootfs ubifs | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd adore a DamnSmallLinux with a self-comprised BM flasher-3.5 and fiasco shell script, preferrably both as .iso to burn to mini-CD as well as in any other suitable form to make me happily restore on whatever PC I can get hold of | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | e.g as bootable partition on uSD | 01:18 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: and maybe find a way to use bootmenu's MSM to boot the pc from the n900 itself! | 01:19 |
| kerio | >:D | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably restoring was even faster than doing backup then | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's a bit of a vicious circle, since N900 considered flawed when we wnat to run this backup menu restorer | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | keeping partition1 VFAT on uSD bootable though can't be much of a problem | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bootable under X86 | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and using a uSD cardreader keyring | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm carrying one on me since >4 years now iirc | 01:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq I'm not getting anymore what's going on with my PC network. br0 WTF?! | 01:34 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 googles ifconfig br0 | 01:37 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooooh xen FFS | 01:38 |
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| jacekowski | that's bridge | 01:47 |
| jacekowski | not only xen thing | 01:47 |
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| robbiethe1st | kerio, can you test something for me? | 02:00 |
| robbiethe1st | Go into /usr/share/backupmenu/extrafiles.tar.gz, edit filelist.txt and add the line: "ln -s /tmp/disk/bin/sh /tmp/disk/bin/bash" at the bottom. | 02:01 |
| robbiethe1st | save/retar, boot into backupmenu and see if you can now access the shell | 02:01 |
| stardiviner | I find the default root shell /bin/sh does not read $HOME/.bashrc config file, I want to add some path into $PATH, let root shell read them at startup time, what should I do ? change the SHELL of root into bash ? or something else ? | 02:06 |
| robbiethe1st | hm | 02:15 |
| robbiethe1st | DocScrutinizer05, this would be your area of experties, i think | 02:15 |
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| Skry | robbiethe1st: use .profile | 02:21 |
| robbiethe1st | not me, but... | 02:21 |
| Skry | oops :) | 02:21 |
| Skry | stardiviner: use .profile | 02:22 |
| stardiviner | Skry: thanks | 02:36 |
| Skry | np | 02:41 |
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| fruct | Who know - how to set dmesg to booting on n900? | 10:57 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: nope | 11:26 |
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| jonwil | yay, my N900 is finally fixed :) | 13:28 |
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| zsolt | hello | 13:38 |
| zsolt | my custom kernel cant boot | 13:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | stardiviner: install bash4, look at | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 14:59 |
| infobot | rumour has it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 14:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~tell stardiviner about messybox | 15:02 |
| stardiviner | DocScrutinizer05: thanks | 15:05 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hm, differences between bash and bash4? | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see changelog | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think mainly background processes in scripts | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | help coproc | 15:07 |
| kerio | meh | 15:08 |
| kerio | i'm fine with bash (3) on my n900 | 15:08 |
| kerio | and my laptop, too | 15:08 |
| kerio | my debian sid server has bash4 though | 15:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: actually my N900 also has bash3 | 15:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and t900 even still has 2.05b.0(1)-release | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which still has proper help, unlike the 3.2.33(2)-release on IroN900 | 15:31 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, the lack of help kinda sucks :c | 16:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I pondered preparing a dead simple shellscript executable named "help" | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just lacking input which I had to pick somewhere from sourcecode I guess | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (I don't think recycling help output from bash2 is a smart idea) | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NFC who thought it's clever to leave help out of bash3 build :-( | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, save 5k helptext string consts in bash3, while bloating busybox-power by 500k. After all bash can happily live on /opt while busybox has TB to waste on / | 17:16 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it's to save rootfs space! :D | 17:16 |
| kerio | besides, is bash optified? | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it should | 17:16 |
| kerio | (and bash4 does indeed have help) | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc if it is | 17:16 |
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| kerio | (and it's not optified) | 17:16 |
| kerio | (the help files are in /usr/share/bash) | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, you always can optify manually | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we got even tools for that | 17:17 |
| kerio | and screw over dpkg in the process? | 17:17 |
| teotwaki | kerio: it doesn't really matter, I seem to remember it uses hardlinks, so dpkg doesn't notice. | 17:17 |
| kerio | >hardlinks | 17:18 |
| kerio | >over filesystems | 17:18 |
| kerio | wtfamireading.jpg | 17:18 |
| teotwaki | kerio: I may be mistaken, but I've used it for a long time, never had issues | 17:18 |
| kerio | osso-optify-whatever.sh, right? | 17:18 |
| teotwaki | I think so, yeah. | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/sbin/maemo-optify-make-mountbind.sh /usr/sbin/maemo-optify-firstboot.sh /usr/sbin/maemo-optify-auto-opt.sh /usr/sbin/maemo-optify-lib.sh | 17:19 |
| kerio | apart from the moundbinding, do those do more than mv+ln? | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one of them even has several lines of "howto" comment | 17:20 |
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| kerio | damn, the n900's wifi powersaving is *really* aggressive | 17:22 |
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| kerio | # Copyright: (C) 2010 Nokia | 17:23 |
| kerio | # License: DO WHAT YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE | 17:23 |
| kerio | oh lawds | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | head -n 18 /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf | 17:24 |
| kerio | neat | 17:26 |
| kerio | :D | 17:26 |
| kerio | what is a package supposed to do, btw? | 17:27 |
| kerio | manually put stuff in /opt/<packagename> or use that? | 17:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I guess you may safely append a few lines for bash to /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf | 17:28 |
| kerio | yeah, yeah | 17:28 |
| kerio | echo / >>/etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf | 17:29 |
| kerio | hm, what makes the bindmounts for python? | 17:30 |
| kerio | and *why*? | 17:30 |
| kerio | oh, pymaemo-optify in /etc/init.d | 17:30 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ooh, a way to do that could be to add dpkg diverts | 17:37 |
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| kerio | but you still have to make the symlinks manually | 17:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik there's never been any "official definition" on how to use optification. so some pkgs (e.g. alarmed) hape binaries sitting in /opt/*/*/* and no symlink at all from anywhere inside $PATH to that binary | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while others probably create symlinks by their own, and yet others might use maemo-optify* | 17:40 |
| kerio | well, of the ones that i ever installed, only liqbase added something to maemo-optify*.conf | 17:41 |
| kerio | and of course maemo chess and some other stupid stuff | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no surprise, since ,ae,o-optify* been developed by lcuk, like liqbase | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo-optify* | 17:41 |
| kerio | anyway, dpkg diverts are resistant to package upgrades/removals | 17:42 |
| kerio | and if you have to put a dpkg-indexed file somewhere else, you should use those | 17:42 |
| kerio | dpkg powah! | 17:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, can't parse | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, wtf is a dpkg-indexed file? | 17:43 |
| kerio | a file that dpkg knows of | 17:43 |
| kerio | because it was installed by a package | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and why do you have to put it somewhere? and how are you supposed to use it? | 17:43 |
| kerio | because you want to optify it | 17:43 |
| kerio | and the original package writer sucks | 17:43 |
| kerio | *package maintainer | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still don't get it | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc what you're suggesting | 17:44 |
| kerio | instead of using the silly maemo-optify-* or manually moving and symlinking | 17:44 |
| kerio | you make a dpkg diversion and then symlink | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm, I make a dpkg diversion | 17:45 |
| kerio | because at that point dpkg knows that every time a package wants to install something in the initial directory, it has to put them where you decided | 17:45 |
| kerio | actually nevermind | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now if you'd bother to elaborate on 2make dpkg diversion", I actually might profit from your info shared | 17:45 |
| kerio | you can't divert directories | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess that's where symlinks and maemo-optify* come in | 17:47 |
| kerio | dpkg-divert --divert /opt/manual-optification-yo/bigassfile --rename /usr/path/to/bigassfile | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc there's been a suggested way to automatically optify stuff when building in SB | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like "touch please-optify" | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course it's questionable why bash lives in / | 17:50 |
| kerio | because bash is the shit | 17:50 |
| kerio | also login shell | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you only would want to keep it in / if you were mad enough to use it as default init shell | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | login shell is not mandatorily living in / | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since to login you evidently need a system that kinda booted up to full X and connectivity | 17:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | which means /opt is available at that point in time | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (btw same applies for busybox-power) | 17:53 |
| kerio | to be fair busybox-power is only good for the extra commands (which can be linked to a busybox living in /opt and for the extra stuff in the commands that are already there | 17:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (the reason I frown on replacing space-conserving busybox that *has* to live in rootfs by busybox-power that is clearly targeted at interactive thus login-shell and ergo _should_ get optified and NOT waste precious space in rootfs) | 17:55 |
| kerio | and because it adds options to builtin commands | 17:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | if distro maintainers had groked the difference between /bin and /usr/bin (same for sbin) and strictly moved all binaries needed during early boot to /(s)bin where they belong, we could've done with optification by simply moving /usr to /opt (the full picture is a tad more complex due to /us/lib etc, but basically it's been Nokia fscking up then instead of fixing their mess invented optification). Oh well, seems I posted that years ago, | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification | 18:06 |
| infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" | 18:06 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why didn't maemo 5 run directly from eMMC? | 18:09 |
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| kerio | ~m32g | 18:48 |
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| kerio | no, dammit | 18:48 |
| kerio | ~m5g32 | 18:48 |
| kerio | hrmpf | 18:48 |
| kerio | ~m32gb | 18:49 |
| infobot | i guess m32gb is https://code.launchpad.net/~pali/+junk/maemo_M32GB | 18:49 |
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| Sicelo | what is this M32GB? | 19:33 |
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| Sicelo | hmm, nice | 19:41 |
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| kerio | Sicelo: yeah, it's kinda neat | 19:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'd much prefer a proper bootable image and a entry in uBoot, rather than a pivotroot from stock maemo | 20:07 |
| kerio | indeed | 20:07 |
| kerio | otoh, an entry in uBoot would require the appropriate modules | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | btw look into preinit, you'll be surprised to find similar legacy from maemo4 to pivotroot from initrd to nand rootfs | 20:08 |
| kerio | fucking hysterical raisins | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | eeeeek PANIC!! | 20:09 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 idly wonders if google pictures would yield good hits for "hysterical raisins" | 20:10 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | meh! I got the weird habit to click that yellow ! in status always when I'm away from home | 20:12 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer51: just call the standard fremantle install a bootloader :D | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hm? | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so, keep HAM open now, close, or actually update marble? | 20:14 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer51: yes | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ok | 20:14 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer51: btw, why are you using HAM? | 20:21 |
| kerio | >:D | 20:21 |
| kerio | also, my calibration script worked | 20:21 |
| kerio | (bq27k calibration) | 20:22 |
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| CaveyCoUk | Heya. Am trying to install the kernel for power users, but it cant find package "kernel-power" and googling gives someone's IRC logs but no answers..... any ideas greatly appreciated. | 20:39 |
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| kerio | enable extras-devel, apt-get install kernel-power-flasher | 20:39 |
| freemangordon | kerio: KP50 is in extras | 20:40 |
| freemangordon | no need to enable extras devel | 20:40 |
| CaveyCoUk | I tried that, didnt work. | 20:40 |
| freemangordon | CaveyCoUk: what "didn't work" exactly means? | 20:41 |
| CaveyCoUk | Sorry. It didn't solve my problem, kept giving teh same problem | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | CaveyCoUk: and the problem is? | 20:42 |
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| CaveyCoUk | When I try to install kernel-power-flasher it complains that it cant find the kernel-power package | 20:43 |
| freemangordon | hmm, do you have maemo-extras enabled? | 20:44 |
| CaveyCoUk | Yes, but I just realised I have two of them | 20:44 |
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| CaveyCoUk | Two pointing to http:repository.maemo.org/extras | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | funny | 20:45 |
| CaveyCoUk | One has a blank distribution, the other "freemantle-1.3" | 20:45 |
| CaveyCoUk | Any idea which is correct? | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | lemme check | 20:45 |
| CaveyCoUk | Thank you | 20:45 |
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| kerio | see, this time you had to wait is one of the reasons HAM sucks | 20:52 |
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| kerio | CaveyCoUk: "fremantle" | 20:53 |
| freemangordon | kerio: no, I just have some other things to do ;) | 20:53 |
| kerio | not sure if fremantle-1.3 works too | 20:53 |
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| freemangordon | CaveyCoUk: fremantle-1.3 | 20:53 |
| kerio | really? :o | 20:53 |
| freemangordon | yes | 20:53 |
| [CaveyCoUk] | Thanks | 20:53 |
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| [CaveyCoUk] | Just tarted trial and error | 20:54 |
| [CaveyCoUk] | Seems disabling extras-testing means there is no more error | 20:55 |
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| CaveyCoUk | Guess it is time to start the sweepstake on how long til I brick my phone.... | 20:57 |
| CaveyCoUk | Thank you very much freemangordon | 21:00 |
| freemangordon | CaveyCoUk: is it ok now? | 21:00 |
| CaveyCoUk | Its installed and rebooted, so I can at least move on to installing the next bits. | 21:02 |
| CaveyCoUk | It looks like it was some sort of conflict between different application catalogues resulting in a package being unavailable, which is odd :\ | 21:02 |
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| CaveyCoUk | My connection is being flakey, so am gonna scoot. Thanks again. | 21:16 |
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| * Sicelo still wonders wtf his N900 just bombs out on Pali's u-boot+bootmenu combo | 21:23 | |
| kerio | why is bootmenu related to uboot? | 21:30 |
| Sicelo | this one, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 | 21:30 |
| kerio | NIN101: does the kernel in rescue-os have the thumb2 errata workaround patched in? | 21:31 |
| Sicelo | re:thumb2, i doubt | 21:31 |
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| kerio | i was afraid of that, yeah | 21:31 |
| Sicelo | i really like this uboot/bootmenu combo, if only it would work for me :( | 21:34 |
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| Psotnick | Can anyone tell me how can I make hildon_picker_dialog disappear after first change? | 21:40 |
| kerio | yo vi_ | 21:43 |
| kerio | freemangordon needs a n950 screen | 21:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | kerio: are you mad? why woulod you need thumb patch in rescue-os? | 21:57 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer06: chroot? | 21:58 |
| freemangordon | a wild guess | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | pff | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | that's not what rescue-os is meant for | 21:58 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer06: ok | 21:58 |
| freemangordon | :) | 21:58 |
| kerio | what is it meant for? | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | I however could see a problem for users planning to run binaries from their borked original system in resue-os environment | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | if those binaries are thumb-compiled | 22:00 |
| NIN101 | kerio: no it doesn't | 22:00 |
| kerio | NIN101: yeah, i thought so :( | 22:00 |
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| * DocScrutinizer06 idly wonders if a lib.so can modify own symbol table, just by writing new values to pointer associated to random-function() symbol | 22:03 | |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | or is the symbol table "static" and just loaded to non-writable RAM when randomlib.so gets loaded? | 22:04 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer06: well, aren't libraries shared between binaries? | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | sure | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | that's the idea of sHAREDoBJECT | 22:05 |
| kerio | wouldn't stuff break if a library could change itself? | 22:06 |
| kerio | or is it copy-on-write? | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | but this sharing is done by processes resp ld.so opening the library via dlopen() | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | before ld.so resolves/links references to symbols in lib.so for $binary, the lib.so gets loaded and _init of the lib gets executed | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | in _init the library could do some initialization stuff (you probably have guessed that yet) | 22:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | incl changing the addr pointer associated to a symbol in symbol table | 22:08 |
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| kerio | so is the symbol table specific to each process? | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | then ld.so resolves/links the refernece in $binary to randomfunction() in lib.so, and replaces the jump addr with what it finds in the table | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | see man dlsym | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | man dlopen | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | (same) | 22:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | the user can override any symbol in any lib.so by defining "LD_PRELOAD=my-overriding-lib-with-symbol-that-replaces-original.so anybinary" | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | FILE *fopen64(const char *path, const char *mode) { | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | typedef FILE * (*fopen64_function_type)(const char *, const char*); | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | fopen64_function_type next_fopen64 = dlsym(RTLD_NEXT, "fopen64"); | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | return next_fopen64(path, mode); | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | } | 22:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | ^^^overrides original fopen64() | 22:14 |
| trumee | ~ping | 22:14 |
| infobot | ~pong | 22:14 |
| kerio | well that's kind of a stupid wrapper | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | the lib itself should be able to handle that even smarter | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | if not, than glibc could dlopen("glibc-helper-fakePselect.so") and implement an emulation for 'own' true pselect in that glibc-helper-fakePselect.so | 22:16 |
| Sicelo | OT: i wonder if this will be a hackable-enough device, http://www.gsmarena.com/zte_grand_x_in-4962.php | 22:18 |
| kerio | ooh, intel atom | 22:21 |
| kerio | neat | 22:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: there's one question if it's hackable, another question if somebody actually will port a decent OS to it | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: I don't care about buntkuh shite without proper dialer or anything, without support for GPS and WLAN and whatnot else | 22:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | basically any monkey can bring up a rudimentary linux on a semi-known hw platform. But getting something *useable* to run there is a whole different thing | 22:28 |
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| kerio | port maemo to it! | 22:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, since maemo(5) is made for porting. And alredy been ported to 580 some other platforms | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually that's the grave sin of Nokia regarding maemo - they managed to make it impossible to port | 23:22 |
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| kerio | "impossible" | 23:32 |
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| kerio | [Linus quote about linux not going to ever support non-AT hard drives] | 23:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | "what the fuck? A strawberry!" [Peter Schoeppel quote on unknown occasion] | 23:36 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: wut? | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 23:38 |
| vi__ | maemo 5 can suck my nuts. | 23:39 |
| vi__ | Hildon is where it is at. | 23:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | hildon is ported | 23:39 |
| kerio | well, right | 23:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | and it's only DE | 23:39 |
| vi__ | yeah... | 23:39 |
| kerio | it has a weird, non-standard notification area though | 23:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | it is nice for tablets/mobiles | 23:40 |
| vi__ | n950 vs n900 | 23:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | i would like to see hildon+swipe hybrid | 23:40 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 mumbles "sensorfw" and some rather nasty other terms, heads out to do something nicer than discussing maemo porting | 23:40 | |
| vi__ | ffs | 23:40 |
| vi__ | swipe can get bent. | 23:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | vi_, swipe is nice but i feel like it's so not customizable and there is such a waste of space there | 23:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | like feed screen- and if i don't use feeds? why would i want black screen with just a date | 23:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | why not to make it widgets's screen | 23:41 |
| vi__ | LCARS | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly I rather use Braille HID than meego UI | 23:41 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: ! | 23:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | Braille HID? | 23:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05, you are just too old for those things :P | 23:42 |
| vi__ | ZogG_laptop: the older you get the less tolerant to utter bullshit you get. | 23:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05, i bet you don't use big thumb, u handle in one hand and use pointer thumb to click buttons :P | 23:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/braille-4.jpg | 23:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | vi_, u need to understand that swipe for portrait mostly and without hw kbd | 23:43 |
| vi__ | so for retarded cripples? | 23:43 |
| vi__ | I have 2 hands. | 23:44 |
| kerio | yep! | 23:44 |
| vi__ | and multiple fingers. | 23:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | and | 23:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | how is it related? | 23:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | beilive me, u can't compete swype with hw kbd | 23:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's too small | 23:45 |
| vi__ | If you make a UI for spastics, you will have a device only useable by spastics. | 23:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | vi_, it's just hard for some people to get inovations, that's it | 23:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | like Ms made tablet and everyone boo'ed and apple made tablet and everyone had orgasms | 23:46 |
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| vi__ | eventually computers will be so reduced in functionallity and controls we will just have a giant button for a KB the you slap with your idiot flipper to make the screen change colours. | 23:47 |
| vi__ | while bellming. | 23:47 |
| vi__ | wtf, ms did not make the tablet. | 23:47 |
| vi__ | apple did | 23:48 |
| vi__ | called the apple newton. | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and everybody boo'ed ;-P | 23:48 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: because it sucked. | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too much ahead of its time | 23:49 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: probably has a giant sealed lead acid battery. | 23:49 |
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| vi__ | If only there was a hildon implementation for the n950. | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | incl aegis-nuker | 23:51 |
| vi__ | fuckit. | 23:51 |
| vi__ | when my n900 breaks I am going to get a mobile phone the size of a pen with no screen. | 23:51 |
| vi__ | to dial, you will click the button on the end like back when you tried to scam free calls by hitting the hang-up on a pulse dial phone line. | 23:52 |
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| vi__ | they will call it revolutionary. | 23:53 |
| vi__ | re-envisioning the roll of the mobile phone. | 23:53 |
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| vi__ | for hands free you would just stick it in your ear like a loose cigarette | 23:54 |
| vi__ | also, it would be a pen. | 23:54 |
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