| zeq1 | freemangordon: re. LDFLAGS when using LTO. You don't want to do that because the code will be unoptimized with extra sections with hints for the LTO stage. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| vi_ | can you get a chinese knockoff KB? | 00:00 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, I would like to upgrade to latest cssu-testing, but I'm little lost after reading thread. Currently what are "manual" things required (i.e. ones not related to repos), other than fixing microB for https? | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | for google, to be precise | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | I.e. is there any pending update to kp, that will make it even more integrated... | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | so it is sane to wait few days more for main device, or it just works? | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | normally I tets bleediong-edge things myself, but no i'm little late with reading | 00:01 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: that only applies of course if the linking is done separately. If it's all done in one gcc instance it doesn't matter. | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | also, kernel-power-settings,. what';s the status of it? | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | i've seen kp15 in repos, but it was deleted by x-fade | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | no there is kp-14 in devel | 00:02 |
| Estel_ | s/kp-14/kernel-power-settings-14/ | 00:02 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: no there is kernel-power-settings-14 in devel | 00:02 |
| vi_ | Estel_: wut, you mean KP51? | 00:02 |
| Estel_ | In one device, I have kernel-power-settings 15, that got installed before it got removed from repos | 00:02 |
| Estel_ | vi_, yea, I've heard about pending update for KP, but I don't know if it happened or not | 00:02 |
| Estel_ | I just want to install thumb and I'm lsot about manual steps needed after, as it's WIP still | 00:03 |
| Estel_ | i.e. if it's still required to mess with kernel-power-settings manually? or google fix is only one thing needed? | 00:03 |
| kerio | Estel_: i'm using the thumb repo without actually switching cssu flavour | 00:04 |
| vi_ | Estel_: you should avoid thumb for a couple of days till the last updates are complete. | 00:04 |
| vi_ | it is a minefield right now. | 00:05 |
| Estel_ | vi, I have old version of thumb on one of my devices | 00:05 |
| kerio | that, too | 00:05 |
| Estel_ | I see | 00:05 |
| Estel_ | now I'm talking about main device :P | 00:05 |
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| kerio | make a full backupmenu backup and don't install the kernel or busybox-power from the thumb repo | 00:05 |
| Estel_ | oh, yea, guys claiming that new hostmode eats less batery thaN old hostmode. suuure, it sounds beliveable | 00:05 |
| Estel_ | kerio, why no busybox-power? post on TMO? | 00:06 |
| vi_ | why not busybox? | 00:06 |
| freemangordon | and why not kernel? | 00:06 |
| kerio | no, because it's thumby | 00:06 |
| vi_ | yeah! | 00:06 |
| freemangordon | and? | 00:06 |
| kerio | and if you have to reflash a different kernel backupmenu won't work | 00:06 |
| vi_ | eh? | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | kerio, do You realise, than kernel is required for thumb? | 00:07 |
| kerio | yes i do | 00:07 |
| kerio | no, wait | 00:07 |
| kerio | you just need kp51 | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | also, I know that backupmenu doesn't restore kernels, it's no problem ;) | 00:07 |
| kerio | or any kernel with kernel-feature-whatever-errata | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | yea | 00:07 |
| vi_ | estel he is saying, if you update to BB thump and have to reinstall nokia kernel. You are fucked. | 00:07 |
| freemangordon | guys, DO NOT UPDATE/INSTALL anything from thumb repo until told so | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | first, I never use Nokia kernel :p second, why fucked, jsut flash ti via flasher and restore | 00:08 |
| kerio | well, you're "fucked" | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, lol? | 00:08 |
| kerio | if you have a pc it's no problem | 00:08 |
| vi_ | freemangordon: yes. | 00:08 |
| freemangordon | it is in inconsistent state right now, I am preparing an update | 00:08 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: what's up with the repo? | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, thanks, it's what I asked about :) | 00:08 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: ^^^ | 00:08 |
| zeq1 | inconsistent state, yes | 00:09 |
| zeq1 | I mean, what did you do to it? :) | 00:09 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, and kernel-power 51? We're going to see update in few days, or everythinh for now is in latest version? | 00:09 |
| freemangordon | nothing broken, but still ;) | 00:09 |
| Estel_ | those r1 r2 etc versions confused me | 00:09 |
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| freemangordon | Estel_: see on TMO, don;t have time now | 00:09 |
| Estel_ | last question - kernel-power settings state. Why one of ym devices have versioon 15, and that version got pulled out from repos, later, manually | 00:10 |
| Estel_ | by x-fade | 00:10 |
| vi_ | Estel_: there is kp51 in devel. | 00:10 |
| kerio | Estel_: KP51 is a separate thing, but KP51r1 should be the "stable" one | 00:10 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, thanks :P | 00:10 |
| kerio | Estel_: and k-p-s v15 is in the repos | 00:10 |
| Estel_ | I just have 1272 posts to read on TMO :( | 00:10 |
| kerio | if you're unsure about what you've installed, uninstall and reinstall from -devel | 00:10 |
| Estel_ | kerio, thanks, i know that, I was asking about "why it got manually pulled out of repos" at some point | 00:10 |
| Estel_ | out of curiosity | 00:10 |
| vi_ | and DONT DRINK THE WATER. | 00:10 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 00:11 |
| kerio | it was never pulled out of the repos | 00:11 |
| kerio | :o | 00:11 |
| Estel_ | kerio, it was | 00:11 |
| kerio | kp50 | 00:11 |
| Estel_ | wait a minute *searches for link* | 00:11 |
| kerio | not k-p-s | 00:11 |
| Estel_ | settings! | 00:11 |
| vi_ | Estel_: just echo your values strait to /sys. no KPS required. | 00:11 |
| kerio | madness | 00:11 |
| Estel_ | vi_, that's an option too | 00:11 |
| Estel_ | this is not madness, this is... parlamentar comission in polish goverment ;) | 00:12 |
| Estel_ | jokes asie, I'll just wait few days with thumb | 00:12 |
| Estel_ | as more I try to understand it's current state (and why so) the more confusing it is. It must wait until I read everything that I've missed in TMO | 00:13 |
| Estel_ | see You all in 2056 :P | 00:13 |
| kerio | waaaaah why doesn't extras-devel use pdiffs | 00:13 |
| Estel_ | joke of the year: I can always ask Council about current state of Community projects | 00:13 |
| vi_ | in fact you can set almost everything from /etc/pmconfig. | 00:13 |
| vi_ | Estel_: why is that a joke? | 00:14 |
| Estel_ | try that, You will know the answer | 00:14 |
| * kerio has everything upgraded | 00:15 | |
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| Estel_ | also, I need to mess up with N950 - I've updated it, finally, to latest version via one click flasher | 00:16 |
| Estel_ | it's different story | 00:16 |
| Estel_ | reboot loop[ after upgrade on device left me without battery | 00:16 |
| Estel_ | and emergency charging wasn't able to charge it | 00:16 |
| Estel_ | had to take it out of device and charge in external charger, (battery), as fuckin one click flasher didn't wanted to flash with less than 30 percent batteruy | 00:16 |
| Estel_ | battery | 00:16 |
| freemangordon | FUUUK, I am out of cigarettes and microb refuse to compile with gcc 4.7.2 | 00:17 |
| Estel_ | well, it was 2,96 V when I took it out | 00:17 |
| kerio | freemangordon: oh god D: | 00:17 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, good moment to drop smoking :P | 00:17 |
| kerio | buy more cigarettes! hurry! | 00:17 |
| vi_ | freemangordon: progress to roll-ups. | 00:17 |
| kerio | Estel_: THIS IS NOT TIME FOR CRAZY TALK | 00:17 |
| Estel_ | sure, it's time to drop smoking :P | 00:17 |
| kerio | Estel_: anyway, haters gonna hate | 00:17 |
| kerio | the only unupgraded package i have is the mp one because i held it | 00:18 |
| kerio | and i'm using a shitton of repos | 00:18 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: can't you compare the failing code with what's in the mozilla-central codebase? | 00:18 |
| Estel_ | well, still, even on newest version, N950 works in portrait mode, mosltly./ I don't know, Nokianks are fckd in head. On N900, they did landscape only, and much effort was put to bring portrait | 00:18 |
| Estel_ | now in N950 they did portrait-mostly, and much effort is to bring landscape | 00:18 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: are you sure you want to install the microb-engine i've compiled after being without cigarettes for couple of hours? | 00:18 |
| kerio | so it did compile! | 00:18 |
| freemangordon | no | 00:18 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, sure :D I always though that artists on drugs would perform even *better* without them :D | 00:18 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: most common cause of failure with 4.7 is missing headers l | 00:18 |
| Estel_ | but no one knows for sure | 00:19 |
| kerio | then i don't want to install it :c | 00:19 |
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| freemangordon | zeq1: this time the reason is because the source code is FUBAR | 00:19 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, You can try doing it like in some lame hacker movie | 00:19 |
| Estel_ | when "hero" was "hacking" into fbi or something | 00:19 |
| Estel_ | under 2 minutes | 00:19 |
| Estel_ | via typing in fancy tyerminal gui | 00:20 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: have you tried applying the microb patches to mozilla-central? I was thinking of trying to port them earlier today. | 00:20 |
| Estel_ | with gun next to his head and girl do9ing him forced blowjob. Most ridicolous "hacker" scene in movies, at all | 00:20 |
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| freemangordon | zeq1: the function declaration in header is void foo(const bar&), the definition in cpp is void foo(bar*) | 00:20 |
| Estel_ | it's still haunting some people, years after watching. I wonder how much fkcd in head script writer was | 00:21 |
| freemangordon | WTF? zeq1, I am not sure I want to use a SW written by those guys | 00:21 |
| zeq1 | is that from the microb patches? | 00:21 |
| vi_ | Estel_: you have a none thumb device? | 00:21 |
| freemangordon | don't think so | 00:21 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: ^^^ | 00:21 |
| Estel_ | vi_, currently with me, no thumb | 00:21 |
| Estel_ | one device lying ind rawer 300 miles away got old thumb | 00:22 |
| Estel_ | ind rawer* | 00:22 |
| Estel_ | fuck | 00:22 |
| Estel_ | in drawer* | 00:22 |
| zeq1 | it's quite a crusty xulrunner version | 00:22 |
| vi_ | Estel_: good. can you echo top to a file and pastebinit for me? | 00:22 |
| Estel_ | sure | 00:22 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: most probably it is original code, after buying cigarretes i will check what is without patches. bbl | 00:22 |
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| vi_ | estel: can you paste it on tmo with 'cat /proc/swaps' and 'free'? | 00:26 |
| vi_ | start a new thread with a name like thumb vs non-thumb memory comparisons. | 00:26 |
| vi_ | I will also update it with my stats. | 00:26 |
| Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?6aae50d5e255556f#4/L4KuUK36aCgAEfg1ooBfMwd8PiKQZKOVWhBCu91Zw= | 00:27 |
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| Estel_ | vi_, all right | 00:27 |
| Estel_ | vi_, mind You, that I have Ed enabled all the time | 00:27 |
| vi_ | Hopefully we can get the ball rolling on quantifying the true benefits of thumb. | 00:27 |
| Estel_ | not LXDE, jsut chrooted into | 00:27 |
| vi_ | Estel_: that is fine. | 00:27 |
| Estel_ | ok, log I've send Yuo is after device sitting idle for few hours | 00:28 |
| Estel_ | without anything openm | 00:28 |
| Estel_ | open* | 00:28 |
| vi_ | at this stage in the game everyone runs a fucked up personalised setup. | 00:28 |
| kerio | vi_: also note that browserd has a bug regarding the fact that it doesn't close down properly | 00:28 |
| kerio | or something | 00:28 |
| Estel_ | what do you think, which TMO category is suited best for this topic? | 00:29 |
| Estel_ | memo 5/fremantle, I thing | 00:29 |
| Estel_ | applications doesn';t sound ok for it | 00:29 |
| vi_ | fremantle. | 00:30 |
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| Woody14619 | Funny you should consider the "joke of the year" asking Council about current projects, Estel_. | 00:33 |
| Woody14619 | What I would consider the "joke of the year" around Council, would be very different. | 00:34 |
| Estel_ | nice for You | 00:34 |
| Estel_ | vi_, either than cat /proc/swaps You need anything else? | 00:34 |
| Estel_ | and top output, of course | 00:34 |
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| Estel_ | vi_, anyway, here it is: | 00:36 |
| Estel_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1243487#post1243487 | 00:36 |
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| vi_ | yes. sort by memory useage in top. | 00:45 |
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| kerio | is there a way to get the memory usage without buffers and caches? | 00:48 |
| kerio | oh nvm, the second line in the output of free | 00:49 |
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| Estel_ | vi__, I've fixed top output (was fubar) and posted free too | 00:57 |
| Estel_ | in thread on tmo | 00:57 |
| Estel_ | should be OK'ish now | 00:57 |
| Estel_ | vi_ even | 00:57 |
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| Estel_ | Now I have to a) update main device to all thumb enchanced flavors and so goes on b) make N950 usable and test many things on it c) start messing up with 2 raspberry Pi's that are lying on desk next to me | 01:08 |
| Estel_ | ... in 7 days before my 2 weeks holidays start | 01:08 |
| Estel_ | suuure | 01:08 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: after all it was not Nokia to screw it up. That was coming from the upstream | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | appguard banned from google store? ROTFL!! | 01:10 |
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| freemangordon | no antivirus for android? heh | 01:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no proper alternative to what Nokia thought they could implement with aegis | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but actually it's a lame joke that google bans a good app from their store, probably and most likely because it could actually allow users to regain control over their own data | 01:15 |
| freemangordon | no more rootkits, no good for the big brother :D | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm totally baffled as I thought android "security" been always like appguard - obviously I've been mistaken | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, appguard still available in the internets, from a german university of course ;-P | 01:17 |
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| japh | now you're talking ed memory footprint is this not my old friend ed the editor | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and fools at #harmattan don't wanna hear how appguard is better than any aegis | 01:26 |
| FIQ|n900 | two op? | 01:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer: it's not like if we want to listen aegis suddenly will go away | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, I'll put ti straight - if someone like aegis, he msut be fckd in head | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | damn, need to get used to writing from N950 | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | sorry for typos | 01:30 |
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| Estel_ | but, probably, those are same guys, that think capacitive screenm is "more precise" or sensitive than resistive | 01:30 |
| FIQ|n900 | oh god | 01:31 |
| FIQ|n900 | capacitive screens... | 01:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | lol | 01:32 |
| FIQ|n900 | I don't like them, but I guess I'll have to live with it sooner or later | 01:32 |
| FIQ|n900 | capacitive screen = no more nail-stylus | 01:33 |
| Estel_ | capacitive screen - no more hitting anything smaller than iphone button | 01:33 |
| Estel_ | and no, You won't have | 01:33 |
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| Estel_ | resistive screens got very good multitouch implemented anyway | 01:33 |
| Estel_ | in low end user products, capacitive will surely flood the market as they do now | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you just have to live with it like you have to live with glossy laptop display | 01:34 |
| FIQ|n900 | though it's not as horrible as lacking hardware keyboard :P | 01:34 |
| Estel_ | but no sane person will pay many $$$ for geeky product supposed to be mobile computer, with capacitive | 01:34 |
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| Estel_ | unless thei fix technology to properly support precision | 01:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: how is it connected one to another? | 01:34 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, nope, I buiy only notebooks with mat display | 01:34 |
| Estel_ | vote via your money. | 01:34 |
| FIQ|n900 | [00:33:37] <Estel_> capacitive screen - no more hitting anything smaller than iphone button | 01:34 |
| FIQ|n900 | this is another reason why I don't like them yeah | 01:35 |
| Estel_ | not to mention pressure sensitivity | 01:35 |
| Estel_ | I mean, sensing real pressure | 01:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | i had no problems with capacitive screens, while push harder to get response is always been the problem with resistance ones | 01:35 |
| Estel_ | but capacitive fanboys *wavew to zog) don't have a clue, anyway | 01:35 |
| FIQ|n900 | indeed | 01:35 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, as said, open anything real - like easy debian, - and try it with capacitive | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | then come back ;) | 01:36 |
| FIQ|n900 | ZogG_laptop: lol, that's *better* | 01:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: sure i don't. it's not like i had n900 before... =) | 01:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: yes and use stylus in bus while standing, truely geek | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | no problems with it | 01:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: don't you think that mobile UI should be mobile UI and desktop ui shuld be desktop | 01:37 |
| Estel_ | but I probably don't have crippled fingers, like most tenaagers have | 01:37 |
| Estel_ | nowadays | 01:37 |
| Estel_ | dropping every small item 5 times per minute | 01:37 |
| Estel_ | BTw, resistive works great with fingers, ya know? | 01:37 |
| FIQ|n900 | [00:36:53] <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: yes and use stylus in bus while standing, truely geek | 01:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: as well geeks don't use fancy unity but awesome and things where you can live without mouse | 01:37 |
| FIQ|n900 | I always use my nails, much more comfortable imo | 01:37 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, exactly | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | on the go, I oeprated it with fingers, without problems, as per nails | 01:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: Estel_ i don't grow nails just for phone =) | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | also, I got this smal guitar-like thing from 5320 | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, face it, tennagers grown on capacitive screens have crippled fingers :P | 01:38 |
| FIQ|n900 | also, I accidently lost the stylus to my old phone... didn't hurt me at all | 01:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | and if you have no problems with fingers you can use capacity | 01:38 |
| FIQ|n900 | (which also had a resistive screen) | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | I'll repeat it again, last tiome - capacitive stylus must be almsot as big as finger to work | 01:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i dunno about it, never checked teenagers fingers | 01:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 feeds ZogG_laptop a buffalo horn | 01:39 | |
| Estel_ | which make it useless | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eat THAT | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | instead of your fingernails | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | lol :) | 01:39 |
| FIQ|n900 | also Estel_ | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | the problem with capacitive is that You can't comfortably use anything smaller than iphone button-sized | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | ...which makes it unusable for anything other than dumb-phone things, like angry birds | 01:39 |
| FIQ|n900 | it's not the lack of diameter, more like the (lack of) temperature iirc? | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, no | 01:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: there is only one thing in resistance better than capacity which is pressure measures. | 01:40 |
| Estel_ | it depend son type, but N950 and N9, no | 01:40 |
| FIQ|n900 | ok | 01:40 |
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| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, basically, is msut be something capacitive that forwards capacitance from your body to screen | 01:40 |
| Estel_ | but some IDIOT decided, that small detection areas must be errors | 01:40 |
| Estel_ | so they're filtyered out | 01:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you have very good comparing and argument skills i must say =) | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | capacitive is from capacitor. | 01:40 |
| FIQ|n900 | Estel_: brilliant | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki capacitor (electric) | 01:41 |
| Estel_ | = only things like 15mm diameter are detected | 01:41 |
| infobot | I couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=capacitor+(electric)&go=Go | 01:41 |
| FIQ|n900 | thank you xchat for that broken link | 01:41 |
| Estel_ | but of course, it's like iphone retina screens - there are always fanmboys like ZogG, who "know better" | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dielectric constant * area / distance | 01:41 |
| Estel_ | we will eternally have idiots, proving that "retina" screens are "superior technology" | 01:41 |
| Estel_ | and we will always have idiots, that doesn't see capacitive screens are just about manufacturing costs | 01:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you know that you just switch name and you can use your sentense against you | 01:42 |
| Estel_ | and both technically and as per usability, worse for user | 01:42 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: but sure it's like Estel_ fanboys who knows better | 01:42 |
| Estel_ | well, some people just like to think that "industry angels decided to give us better things" ;) | 01:42 |
| FIQ|n900 | ZogG_laptop: indeed, which makes that argument useless | 01:42 |
| Estel_ | marketing guys did their job done | 01:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: if you use desktop resolution and fancy DE on mobile, than it doesn't mean you a geek, i would say opposite | 01:43 |
| FIQ|n900 | but IMO resistive > capacitive, for the reasons I and Estel_ has stated | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, the whole point is that You don't have any counter-arguments agaisnt capacitive screens lack of sensing small area touch | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | You jsut write | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | "resistive is better only via pressure sensitivity" | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | while You ignore any arguments, that doesn't match Your fanboish viewe | 01:43 |
| FIQ|n900 | also this is turning into a flameware | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | kinda | 01:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: it's not like i'm trying to prove my point here, ijust like capacitive and said it, but he decided to call me fanboy and prove i'm wrong (on prefering something), it amuses me =P | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | as every "discussion" with ZogG ;) | 01:44 |
| Estel_ | well, we're talking about merit of technical and practical benefits | 01:44 |
| Estel_ | not about what someone like or not | 01:44 |
| FIQ|n900 | s/ware/war/ | 01:44 |
| FIQ|n900 | nice typo | 01:44 |
| Estel_ | my point is that industry feeds us with capacitive screens for their reasons, not our comfort | 01:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: the whole dialog is you saying a lot of crap with no arguements and than it's "like all discussion with ZogG" =) | 01:44 |
| Estel_ | as for both technical and prtactical reasons, capacitive screens are inferior | 01:45 |
| Estel_ | it's just more comfortable for *them* to put it, and marketing department took feeding fanboys with bullshit that it's "better", like with "retina" screens | 01:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: if UI is good you can use fingers, as touch screen in mobiles are made for fingers. so you can touch it. Stylus is yesterday. that's it | 01:45 |
| Estel_ | in dumb phones, yes | 01:45 |
| FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: you removed the bot's "let's announce every replace!" thing? :P | 01:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i still don't see how it's worse that resistance | 01:45 |
| Estel_ | in any other use case - l;ike real mobile computer - it's design flaw | 01:45 |
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| Estel_ | we're tal;king about things pretending to be linux-related mobile computers with phone funcionality | 01:46 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 01:46 |
| Estel_ | as in N950 | 01:46 |
| FIQ|n900 | also ZogG_laptop what about websites? | 01:46 |
| Estel_ | or really mobile computers, as in N900 | 01:46 |
| Estel_ | yea, clicking text links suxx too | 01:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: i had no problems with double tap that would focus to right size | 01:46 |
| Estel_ | unless someone read them in 300% zoom, which is, probably, the case with teenagers with broken eyes | 01:47 |
| FIQ|n900 | I tried to use iPhone to go to a pair of websites | 01:47 |
| Estel_ | sure, 4 x more clicks than needed | 01:47 |
| Estel_ | double tap to zoom | 01:47 |
| Estel_ | then zoom again to desired size | 01:47 |
| Estel_ | very optimal. | 01:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: taking off stylus and putting it back, losing it is worse than 4 clicks | 01:47 |
| Estel_ | why won't You just swap to text based browsers, at all? | 01:47 |
| FIQ|n900 | Estel_: I'm vision impared | 01:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | and again it's not practical when you are on the way | 01:47 |
| FIQ|n900 | ZogG_laptop: ok, didn't know that | 01:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | your concentration would be on phone instead of walking =) | 01:48 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, fingertips ;) also, due to lesser area detected, resistive are better in this case, even with regular fingers | 01:48 |
| FIQ|n900 | but IMO it would be more practical not having to rezoom everytime | 01:48 |
| Estel_ | BTw, when You walk, better not use phone watching screen at all | 01:48 |
| Estel_ | truck may hit You m;) | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack | 01:48 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: :) | 01:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: Estel_ most modern sites are mobile friendly | 01:48 |
| Estel_ | LOL | 01:48 |
| Estel_ | sure, for facebook fans it may suffice | 01:48 |
| Estel_ | but for this you need 200 mhz dumb phone | 01:49 |
| RiD|AFK | ^ | 01:49 |
| Estel_ | on real mobile computers, I want to watch normal sites | 01:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | and i need to zoom mostly on sites like old forums with really small links. while normal sites have swipe and other tasty stuff | 01:49 |
| FIQ|n900 | They are, but I hate mobile sites that cripple everything | 01:49 |
| Estel_ | otherwise, 200x200 pixels screen suffice | 01:49 |
| FIQ|n900 | Estel_: Indeed | 01:49 |
| RiD|AFK | i hate mobile sites mostly | 01:49 |
| RiD|AFK | they're like way too basic | 01:49 |
| *** RiD|AFK is now known as RiD | 01:49 | |
| RiD | doesn't let you do anything | 01:49 |
| FIQ|n900 | indeed | 01:49 |
| RiD | just "check this, no more support because it's ass to do so" | 01:49 |
| Estel_ | well, the thing is, with resistive screens You can use fingers, stylus, whatever - hit big detection area, or 2 pixel wide one | 01:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 heads out puking a little | 01:49 | |
| Estel_ | with capacitive, youre cripopled | 01:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i don't like that if you don't like something you assume people who do not agree with you are teenagers and using only facebook. it's ignorance and stupid btw =) | 01:50 |
| Estel_ | and forced to use only one method | 01:50 |
| Estel_ | well, saying "you can always use mobile-optimized sites only" for mobile computer is indeed ignorance | 01:50 |
| Estel_ | anyway | 01:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: if finger works on resistance is would work on capacitive as well. simple like that | 01:50 |
| FIQ|n900 | oh by the way Estel_, what are you plans with n950? i.e. what will you play around with? | 01:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | stylus is less comfy than finger, because finger is simply part of you | 01:51 |
| Estel_ | too much time wasted on this pointless discussion. I'm glad that my belowed N900 have nice resistive screen, and my heart cries that N950 1GB of ram is kinda wasted, as no real programs for it | 01:51 |
| Estel_ | like running Ed | 01:51 |
| Estel_ | unless someone invent notebook-touchpad like control for it | 01:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | the one reason resistance can be better is simply the pressure measure when you can use it for painting and things like that | 01:51 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, wrong as always | 01:51 |
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| Estel_ | on resistive, You can touch with half of Your finger too | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ZogG_laptop: my fingernails are also a part of me, and I'm not eating them like you do | 01:52 |
| FIQ|n900 | uuh | 01:52 |
| Estel_ | on capacitive, there is minimum treeshold on surface detected | 01:52 |
| Estel_ | You can't use smaller thing than set diameter, period | 01:52 |
| FIQ|n900 | Estel_: you're using ed? :p | 01:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: i cut them and i dn't grow them long like a girl, what can i do | 01:52 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, extensively. as in easy debian | 01:52 |
| FIQ|n900 | oh.. right | 01:52 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, any normal person with short fingernails don't have problems using them to tap something on screen | 01:52 |
| FIQ|n900 | wasn't that obvious :D | 01:52 |
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| FIQ|n900 | but Estel_, what will you play around with @n950? | 01:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: but the angle to touch it? | 01:53 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, will try community things like open ekrnel and e4nchancements | 01:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | 90% would make you touch with tip of finger | 01:53 |
| Estel_ | out of factory state is kinda unusable | 01:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | !=% | 01:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | 90⁰ | 01:54 |
| FIQ|n900 | ah, but will you do actual development with it? | 01:54 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, define development. If what I did for N900 was development, sure. But I don't think it's fair to call it like that | 01:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: if you dont like your n950 give it to e-eyes | 01:54 |
| Estel_ | and for sure I'm going to do some hardware things with it :) | 01:54 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, why, You can always give Your one. | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there is no such thing like development on harmattan - only qtm drag'n'drop "programming" | 01:55 |
| Estel_ | noe one said we don't like it, which don't mean we can't point out flaws | 01:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i do like mine and use it, but you only bitching about it | 01:55 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, that's too :P | 01:55 |
| FIQ|n900 | ah, just wondered if a n950 was justified (didn't want to start a flame here, but whatever) :p | 01:55 |
| Estel_ | difference between sane user and fanboy - I like it, but I moar on it's flaws | 01:55 |
| Estel_ | like I moar on N900's out of factory usb port | 01:55 |
| Estel_ | or lack of HDMI out | 01:55 |
| FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: sounds really complicated | 01:55 |
| Estel_ | but that one is fixable, at least | 01:55 |
| FIQ|n900 | is there tutorials available? :< | 01:56 |
| Estel_ | either by reinforcing usb port, or as in hdmi out, using raspberry Pi as middle-man | 01:56 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, I'm surprised that someone stil lcome with that topic, but CA awards were not about development :P | 01:56 |
| FIQ|n900 | whatever :p | 01:57 |
| trx | DocScrutinizer ++ | 01:57 |
| Estel_ | for developmkent, Yuo have 300 prior devices, and another 30 N950's from this pyear propgrams | 01:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: it's easy to judge and say things when you don't really do anything. so don't listen to them. you can use any language there =) | 01:57 |
| japh | I only have myself to blame but I *did* read 'something about fm chip' on n950 and that was enough for me to take for granted that, ok, great, I can use it like I use the n900 in the car. Big mistake since it's not even fixable by me | 01:57 |
| FIQ|n900 | Just wondered what you would do with it | 01:57 |
| * FIQ|n900 wants one too d: | 01:57 | |
| Estel_ | japh, yea, that's another overkill | 01:57 |
| Estel_ | FMTX transmitter present, but not connected to antenna | 01:57 |
| Estel_ | well, if I ever do custom alu body for N950 for bigger battery - like with N900 - i'll put FMTX there | 01:58 |
| Estel_ | external one | 01:58 |
| Estel_ | for example, rated up to 1W, so You can jam half of city with your music :P | 01:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | it seems to me that actually not me here is fanboy as i like both n9 and n900. but people here saying that n900 is "da bes phone evar" | 01:58 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: you've fixed it then? | 01:58 |
| Estel_ | (with external antenna connected) | 01:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: did you finish the n900's one btw? | 01:58 |
| Estel_ | it's about looking at things meritocratic way. N950 got some things better, but others are blockers, for mobile computer use case :( | 01:59 |
| japh | it would've been so much better with it. And 16G is way too little space , at least for me... It'd be fine if I could add 64G of sdhc but that was another thing I didn't look up; I thought that hey why would nokia make this cool n900++ device and leave out some of the most awesomest things | 01:59 |
| FIQ|n900 | ZogG_laptop: I'm preferring n900 due to its' keyboard | 01:59 |
| japh | oh well | 01:59 |
| zeq1 | I'm going to build a new cputransp devkit with a modern qemu | 01:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: any preview photos or actually anything and not just talking | 01:59 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, see thread on TMO. that's why i've said "if I ever", as N900 one is priority now | 01:59 |
| Estel_ | Well, check for Yourself, TMO thread is public ;) | 01:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: i like keyboard too, but again if UI is wise and it's matter of getting used too | 01:59 |
| Estel_ | also, it's kinda funny, as You haven't donated single penny for it | 01:59 |
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| FIQ|n900 | oh please | 02:00 |
| japh | n900 is great and maemo is great, but the issue is that it's too damn slow today. With 512M more ram... sure | 02:00 |
| Estel_ | yet You're bitching about lack of progress? Seriously? | 02:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i saw thread, there was nothing on first post. | 02:00 |
| FIQ|n900 | not a single touch-keyboard will ever make me happy | 02:00 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, that's nice, as thread like that are for people that can read 10 pages thread, not only single post :) | 02:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: talking is only talking | 02:00 |
| japh | fiq|n900, have you tried this 'swype' thing? | 02:00 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, following twisted logic of that guy, You don't need phone at all | 02:00 |
| Estel_ | You may get used to carrying desktop with You | 02:00 |
| FIQ|n900 | tried every variants, various android phones, various iphone models, the DS/3DS, nothing suited me | 02:01 |
| Estel_ | and riding statioonary bicycle for powering it | 02:01 |
| japh | I also said like that before I tried it, and I still insist that typing on the screen sucks | 02:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | japh: I've heard of it | 02:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | uh wait | 02:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: that's actually you using desctop apps on phone =) not me | 02:01 |
| japh | yes ;) | 02:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | Isn't it the android spellchecker? | 02:01 |
| Estel_ | japh, after extensive training, swype may be faster for writing typical sms messages | 02:01 |
| Estel_ | but nothing more | 02:01 |
| japh | uhm not really a spellchecker afaik | 02:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | or smth | 02:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | spellcorrecter | 02:01 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, ever heard about why people created notebooks, and later, mobile computers, like N900? ;) | 02:01 |
| japh | I don't really get how it works because I can't type on it fast enough I guess | 02:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | i meant | 02:01 |
| Estel_ | for me, you can go back to stone age | 02:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: your logic is broken | 02:02 |
| FIQ|n900 | and also | 02:02 |
| Estel_ | suure ;) | 02:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: new is always a change! | 02:02 |
| japh | it takes about 2 minutes for me typing one of my passwords on the onscreen keyboard :( | 02:02 |
| FIQ|n900 | touch keyboards removes a lot of screen space | 02:02 |
| Estel_ | well, for mobile computer hardware keyboard is a must | 02:02 |
| FIQ|n900 | things that could be used for something *useful* | 02:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you want something smaller, lighter, than it would not be the same as desctop. | 02:02 |
| Estel_ | just like good screen, not that capacitive thing :( | 02:02 |
| FIQ|n900 | like an editor/terminal/webpage/etc | 02:03 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, wrong as always. Smaller ands lighter doesn't necessary mean cripple din features | 02:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: it's only u saying cripple. | 02:03 |
| Estel_ | modularity allow to sue N900 as full fledged desktop, depending on peripherials you carry with You | 02:03 |
| Estel_ | for example, Yuo can even connect serial cable to it, or parallel | 02:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: than just make exact copy of computer, just smaller and use it =) | 02:03 |
| Estel_ | and in form factor of mobile phone. so? N900 is kinda this | 02:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: and it can make coffee for you as well. right. | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | well, it seems that You're just no in *our* use case group :) | 02:04 |
| FIQ|n900 | ZogG_laptop: that would work, if the form factor was a bit improved | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | You want dumb phone with useless resources like fact cpu and ram | 02:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you can connect serial cable to N900? | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | as yopu can;'t utilize them | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, sure | 02:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: and you did it? | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | we wan't mobile computer with phone funcionality | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, sure ;) | 02:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: and you use it in eveyday life? | 02:05 |
| japh | nokia made some really annoying design faults but then again there's still nothing out there that can come close to either n950 nor n900. Everything sucks, this is just what sucks the least | 02:05 |
| Estel_ | I carry usb->serial adaptor when I need it | 02:05 |
| FIQ|n900 | japh: indeed | 02:05 |
| Estel_ | for example, debugging CNc machines on field | 02:05 |
| Estel_ | other people connect N900 to car OBSII systems | 02:05 |
| Estel_ | other people do other fancy things | 02:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i prefer something to be more comfy in everyday life use, than just something that can make things for just prove of concept | 02:05 |
| Estel_ | having real computer, YOU decide how to use it | 02:05 |
| Estel_ | not vendor | 02:05 |
| Estel_ | well, so youre typical windows user mentality type | 02:06 |
| FIQ|n900 | oh well | 02:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: any modern car can have wireless connection and apps with nice ui to do what you want to do | 02:06 |
| japh | I wouldn't really care for regular cell phone use since today who makes regular phone calls anyway? | 02:06 |
| Estel_ | linux mentality type is that we can, but not *must* use other options | 02:06 |
| Estel_ | so we have choice | 02:06 |
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| ZogG_laptop | for hardware things there are special tools for that | 02:06 |
| FIQ|n900 | if someone made a mobile with the form factor of n900, improved specs, a real OS | 02:06 |
| Estel_ | and everyone can put combination of features available that likes much, via peripherials, or programs | 02:06 |
| FIQ|n900 | then take my money | 02:06 |
| japh | When I need to call grandma I use the 3310 anyway | 02:06 |
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| FIQ|n900 | if not, I'll go ahead and buy a new n900 when it's needed | 02:07 |
| Estel_ | japh, buth having possibility to do phone calls don't hurt :) | 02:07 |
| japh | mhm good luck fiq|n900 | 02:07 |
| Estel_ | and mobile network | 02:07 |
| Estel_ | it makes great pair | 02:07 |
| japh | you better hurry up I'm afraid :p | 02:07 |
| FIQ|n900 | japh: :< | 02:07 |
| japh | sure | 02:07 |
| Estel_ | japh, new as in sue din great condition | 02:07 |
| FIQ|n900 | my phone will break soon I believe | 02:07 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, remember about me selling N900's :D | 02:07 |
| Estel_ | with reinforced port ;) | 02:07 |
| japh | yes but I've bought a few this year and they're already getting harder to come by | 02:07 |
| FIQ|n900 | it's breaking apart right now | 02:07 |
| FIQ|n900 | yes | 02:07 |
| Estel_ | japh, not in off-line world of small shops | 02:08 |
| FIQ|n900 | and I do love the reinforced-usb part | 02:08 |
| Estel_ | but I agree that they're not produced anymore | 02:08 |
| japh | hmm what was that now again | 02:08 |
| FIQ|n900 | also | 02:08 |
| FIQ|n900 | this reminds me of... | 02:08 |
| FIQ|n900 | Newton | 02:08 |
| Estel_ | I wonder what Jolla will made for us | 02:08 |
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| FIQ|n900 | @ people crawling out to get the n900s that are left | 02:08 |
| Estel_ | I'm afraid it may end up with keyboard less device, as they're Harmattan legacy | 02:08 |
| Estel_ | in love with N9 | 02:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you'll be disappointed with capacitive screen and "fanboys" phone | 02:09 |
| FIQ|n900 | way after the last one is produced | 02:09 |
| Estel_ | at best, I don't expect real screen digitizer, probably jsut capacitive one. But if rest will be ok | 02:09 |
| Estel_ | but maybe they will surprise us?:D | 02:09 |
| japh | I wonder how many deviced nokia could sell if they only let us people make one order. It seems like everyone wants n900/n950 and no one really wants n9 | 02:09 |
| FIQ|n900 | haha :p | 02:09 |
| Estel_ | honestly, i still belive, that one day, Community will go Rpi/openpandora way, i.e. doing open (as much as possible) hardware on it's own | 02:10 |
| FIQ|n900 | japh: doesn't openpandora do that? :P | 02:10 |
| japh | I saw there's an external keyboard thingy for n9 on sale now that'll 'transform your n9 to a n950' | 02:10 |
| Estel_ | japh, i'm sure some people would choose N9 too | 02:10 |
| FIQ|n900 | i.e. creates on order basis | 02:10 |
| Estel_ | the problem si that Nokia don't even like own N9 and 808 pureview :P | 02:10 |
| japh | estel_, some people yes but I don't think we who talk here would | 02:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | lol | 02:10 |
| Estel_ | japh, some would, look at zog ;P | 02:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | fanatism is the best way to go | 02:10 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 grabs the master_of_trolling medal and runs | 02:11 | |
| Estel_ | japh, honestly, while N950 is grerat device, my N900 stil ldoes circles around it in terms of usability | 02:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: :D | 02:11 |
| Estel_ | ;P | 02:11 |
| japh | you are free to pick whatever you want of course, I'm just saying that in general we are not 'normal' customers or whatever they like to call it | 02:11 |
| Estel_ | maybe qwazix's work on bringing fremantle programs to N950 will help, but some flaws are unfixable | 02:11 |
| Estel_ | like alck of microSd slot | 02:11 |
| Estel_ | lack* | 02:11 |
| Estel_ | this damn screen | 02:11 |
| japh | estel_, so does mine but that's for my part 90% thanks to the stupid ui | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | well, lack of camera lens cover I can fix with custom body | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | same for fm transmitter, with enough will | 02:12 |
| japh | I'm never going to befriend it | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | japh, qwazix is working on bringing hildon ui to N950 | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | to harmattan, as whole | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | although, capacitive screen kills the fun | 02:12 |
| japh | how much $ would you need for fixing fm transmitter for me too? | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | japh, no chance for fixing it on board | 02:12 |
| japh | yeah I think I talked to him | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | I just think about custom body, with better space usage (N950 have much free space filled with aluminum) | 02:13 |
| japh | hmm | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | Well, for me, N900 with mugen cover thickness is fine, so making N950 thick as that, I could easidly put 7000mAh (real) battery there | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | and external FMTX module, cxonnected to audio out | 02:13 |
| japh | you got your n950 just the other day right? | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | with hardware switch | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | yea, week ago, even less | 02:13 |
| FIQ|n900 | Estel_: well, the point of N950 was N9 development | 02:14 |
| Estel_ | already dissasembled it as much as possible and assembled again | 02:14 |
| japh | I didn't think they gave away devices still | 02:14 |
| Estel_ | it's still alive :P | 02:14 |
| FIQ|n900 | so I guess it wouldn't make any sense to have a resistive screen | 02:14 |
| FIQ|n900 | from that PoV | 02:14 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, point of N950 was to be final product | 02:14 |
| Estel_ | later changed t2o N9 | 02:14 |
| Estel_ | with N950 batch as development | 02:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | japh: don't make too much hopes on that | 02:14 |
| japh | zogg_laptop, on what? | 02:15 |
| Estel_ | but you know? This game galaxy on fire they've shipped with pr1.2 is kinda fine ;) | 02:15 |
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| Estel_ | suuure, every system looks the same | 02:15 |
| japh | I gave up getting n950 already when I heard about it :p | 02:15 |
| Estel_ | it isn't Elite frontier, after all | 02:15 |
| Estel_ | but surprised me positively | 02:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | japh: so you don't ahve n950 or n9? | 02:15 |
| FIQ|n900 | I would buy a n950 as n900 successor I guess | 02:16 |
| FIQ|n900 | if just it was *available* | 02:16 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, jolla will probably fix that, I think | 02:16 |
| FIQ|n900 | nokia really don't want my money lol | 02:16 |
| japh | zogg_laptop, no I have an n950, but I wasn't even looking for one, I was looking for buying a bunch of n900's when some random dude came along and offered me n950 | 02:16 |
| Estel_ | still, don't expect better situation with FOSS UI, than it was with N900 | 02:16 |
| Estel_ | probably worse | 02:16 |
| Estel_ | but, maybe they will surprise us,l as said | 02:16 |
| Estel_ | after all, it's Mer, and they submit patches to Nemo | 02:16 |
| Estel_ | Open UI would be great, great surprise | 02:17 |
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| Estel_ | all after all, as it's based on Mer core, Ui should be fully replaceable after all | 02:17 |
| FIQ|n900 | Estel_: I don't expect anything better than n900, it was the ideal phone when I got it for me | 02:17 |
| Estel_ | don't cheat ourselves, Mer is future of Open mobile, with jolla or without | 02:17 |
| japh | but with foss ui we can always *make* things better | 02:17 |
| FIQ|n900 | now it's a bit too old, but otherwise fine | 02:17 |
| Estel_ | japh, actually, with mer, even without foss ui we can replace it | 02:17 |
| japh | I don't think ... exactly | 02:17 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, for me, lack RAM only | 02:17 |
| Estel_ | things like hdmi out would be great, but still | 02:18 |
| Estel_ | y6et, I use it every day with much pleasure | 02:18 |
| FIQ|n900 | Estel_: I just want a n900 with better hardware :P | 02:18 |
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| Estel_ | well, considering that Mer is real mobile linux, I'm optimistic about jolla thing | 02:18 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, sure :P | 02:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: why do you want HDMI if you have serial port? | 02:19 |
| Estel_ | well, for someone willing to spen 1000 USD or so,it is hard, but possible, to get chip with 1GB ram, and solder it on infra red soldering station | 02:19 |
| Estel_ | got to wikipedia, and read what hdmi is | 02:19 |
| Estel_ | it's like comparing grapples to oranges | 02:19 |
| japh | what exactly is it that makes it - at least - take an effort to get good old fremantle going on the n950? Were things so damn hardware specific already from the start? | 02:19 |
| Estel_ | japh, sure, too closed | 02:20 |
| Estel_ | Cordia is effort to bring hildon ui on top of mer, but I doubt cordia will be ever in usable state | 02:20 |
| Estel_ | other than that. N950 hardware adaptation for Mer isn't finished, and msot likely, never will | 02:20 |
| Estel_ | things like GPs don't work | 02:20 |
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| Estel_ | say hi to elop | 02:20 |
| japh | well what I really would want is, you know, X, and then I'm free to pick wm myself | 02:20 |
| beford | im not Elop | 02:21 |
| Estel_ | it was on it's way to be 100% hardware compatible, but february elopcalypse come | 02:21 |
| Estel_ | beford, haha | 02:21 |
| FIQ|n900 | beford: lol | 02:21 |
| FIQ|n900 | bad timing :P | 02:21 |
| Estel_ | made me literally lol | 02:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | if you put all ports and 3 usb and microsd and 3 sim cards and keybaord and ir and bigger battery and good video camera and more and more.... just buy a fucking laptop and good canon/nickon/what-evercamera | 02:21 |
| Estel_ | whatever rambling it is, I don't understand anything from this 3 liner sentence | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | sounds like rant, though | 02:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | you can't make everything in one piece and expect it to be portable and be best in everything | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | of course You can. ever heard about modularity? | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | when I wan't serial port, I carry with me usb -to-serial adaptor | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | in other situations, I don't | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | same for small, portable, travel keyboard | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | or mouse | 02:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you can't replace good camera with phone! | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | yea? check 808 pureview | 02:23 |
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| Estel_ | as for compact | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | as for DLSR, no one trioes to, as it wouldn't be too portable | 02:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: it's not like 7D anyway =) | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | but no technical reasons preventing it | 02:23 |
| japh | this is also a problem that we doesn't share the very same needs :p | 02:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | that' the point | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | again, grapples and oranges | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | with mirrors in DLSR camera, it's technical constrain | 02:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | if you want good camera keep being camre without phone and opposite | 02:23 |
| japh | I don't want no camera. I want my vim running faster | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | in sitrruations You mention, it's flaw of stupid design decisions | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | physical again mental constraints | 02:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | japh: how vim can run slow on n900? | 02:24 |
| FIQ|n900 | i don't care about a camera | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | You're constrained mentally | 02:24 |
| FIQ|n900 | my n900 could have no camera at all | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | we talk about things perfectly possible physically | 02:24 |
| FIQ|n900 | I wouldn't complain | 02:24 |
| FIQ|n900 | the only part of the camera I use is the light :D | 02:24 |
| japh | zogg_laptop, not sure how to answer that, except that the culprit is its syntax hl | 02:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: Estel_ the camera is example. if you want something professional it can;t be combine | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | very bad example, as it's physical constraint | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | where mobile computer is mental one | 02:25 |
| japh | fiq|n900, heh that's true - that have been really useful | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | no physical constraints to make it mobile computer | 02:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: battery is physical. ports is physical, chips and modules is physical | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | it's just about design decisions, every required bits are available and possible | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | wrong, as always | 02:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | enlight me | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | I can put bigger battery if I want, but no one forces me | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | I can carry with me usb-to-whatever adaptors, but again, not required | 02:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: bigger battery is bigger size. you talked about carrying desktop around before, right? | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | every thing needed to make it 99,99% as usable as desktrop computer i s physically possible without making it behemor | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | behemot* | 02:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wrong is clearly the incorrect word to be using. | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | for DLSR camera, it's simply matter of mirrors and big space required | 02:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you can use usb to anything with n9/n950/android or anything | 02:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Business decisions are what's involved. | 02:26 |
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| Estel_ | GeneralAntilles, sure, but not alwys. lack of microSd on N9 and N950 is hardly business decision | 02:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: not anything but you can patch kernel and make drivers | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | unless every design decision is business decision too | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, sure. But for hdmi, I can't | 02:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: 64 gb phone is enuf. | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | before You ask, no, You can't do usb -> hdmi | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | ZogG, 512 kb ram is enough | 02:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: hdmi reqieres place. and yes it's pitty we don't ahve it | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | I said You're typical windows user ;) | 02:27 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: man, just stop being personal!!!!! | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | we don't lack available place. | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | it's no personal | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | it's about You putting constraints on mentality | 02:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: what distro u use? | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | who Yuo are to decide that overpriced 64 GB N9 is enough? | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | 15 years ago 512 kb RAM was enough for gates | 02:28 |
| nox- | 640 k | 02:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | let's just get over with measuring pineses if you want | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | "no one will ever need more than 512 kb of RAM" | 02:28 |
| japh | in the meantime we can get 64*16 n900 | 02:28 |
| japh | blargh | 02:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: what distro do you use? | 02:28 |
| japh | hmm. :) 64+16 | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | japh, on N900, we can use SDXC too | 02:29 |
| Estel_ | 32GB internaL | 02:29 |
| Estel_ | + whatever card size | 02:29 |
| Estel_ | SDXC is up to 2000 GB IIRC ;) | 02:29 |
| japh | oh fuck is it 32 internal? :D I forgot | 02:29 |
| Estel_ | yea | 02:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: but do you really use all this space? | 02:29 |
| Estel_ | well, bill gates said that no one will ever need 512 kb of ram ever, and now zog tell us that we don't need more than 64gb in overpriced N9 | 02:29 |
| Estel_ | sure | 02:29 |
| japh | I do not *now* but the n9 was filled up instantly | 02:29 |
| japh | n950* | 02:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | for few movies and for music and data it's enuf | 02:30 |
| Estel_ | N950 is 16 GB | 02:30 |
| Estel_ | it's "enuf" for You, which doesn't mean it's good design decisions objectively | 02:30 |
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| Estel_ | it's again about beinbg mentally constrained | 02:30 |
| Estel_ | no loss in putting damn microSd slot there | 02:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Costs money | 02:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Adds to support costs | 02:30 |
| Estel_ | GeneralAntilles, seriously | 02:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Changes your software implementation. | 02:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | japh: i have 64 gb n9 and i have enuf place for few movies and music and personal data. and i don't make movie collection or music collection on phone. i simply put what i will use in near future | 02:30 |
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| japh | what are the choices if I'd want to extended the storage for the n950? stick + usb adapter? :/ | 02:31 |
| Estel_ | you know as good as me, that microSd slot is neglible cost, considering software support too | 02:31 |
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| Estel_ | japh, yea | 02:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, actually, it's not. | 02:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: so you ignored my question, what linux do you use? if you call me windows user (as it can be something bad actually) | 02:31 |
| Estel_ | GeneralAntilles, for whole device designing costs? | 02:31 |
| Estel_ | lol, I couldn't find revelance, but, whatever. I use Debian, aptosid, ubuntu, LinuxCNC, MAemo... ;) | 02:31 |
| Estel_ | also, windows XP, when needed | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | now, how is it rellevant to You thinking like gates did? | 02:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: debian ok, UBUNTU? and you call me windows user? | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uSD holder is cheap, uSD interface is a PITA sometimes | 02:32 |
| beford | ew windows | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it gave us glamo, on GTA02 | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | zog, Your ignorance is showing as always | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | ubuntu with unity kicked off and LXDe, for example | 02:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: gates thought of making business and he succeeded | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | is quite comparable to debian | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | thats why people like freemangordon worked on ubuntu for N900 | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | zog, north korean leader also suceed. Or chinbese ones. | 02:33 |
| japh | estel_, you live in ... poland? | 02:33 |
| Estel_ | which doesn't mean it's justified. | 02:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i'm gentoo user for past ± 7 years. so don't teach me please =) | 02:33 |
| Estel_ | japh, yea ;) | 02:33 |
| japh | aha. | 02:33 |
| Estel_ | zog, still you're ignorant | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what a trollfest | 02:33 |
| Estel_ | like arguing that ubuntu is < or > than other distro, lol | 02:33 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 waves at GeneralAntilles | 02:34 | |
| Estel_ | it's like "my e-penis" is longer than Your" | 02:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you can call me whatever, we had arguments before and majority decided already not once who is just about "talking" | 02:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's new, DocScrutinizer05? | 02:34 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, uSd interface is pita, but for company like Nokia designing device,m You agree that it's hardly roadblock? | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | job eating me | 02:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you started by assuming something. i just went down to your level =) | 02:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, employment is good, though, right? | 02:35 |
| Estel_ | zog, majority seems to not care about Your capacitive screens or whatever fanboyism. we're discussing here, in civilized way, you're the only one shouting and trolling around ;) | 02:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: it's again your opinion | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: depends, probably they would have had the 2ndry function on SoC free for mmc interface | 02:35 |
| Estel_ | if You don't liek to continue this discussion, simply leave zog, we won't miss You much | 02:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | and your opinion is only yours | 02:35 |
| Estel_ | and Your e-penis is still longer?;) | 02:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i prefer #maemo when how it was way before you actually =) | 02:35 |
| Estel_ | whatever, EOT :) | 02:35 |
| Estel_ | You were mostly unknown, before post-CA drama, so it's still pointless discussion | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: atm it feels like I'm going to continue tomorrow where I left here | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 02:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nix the ad hominems, please. | 02:36 |
| Estel_ | japh, how do you knew about country?:) | 02:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: if you didn't know me it doesn't mean anything =) | 02:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, debate is stimulating to the brain. ;) | 02:36 |
| Estel_ | sure, nice for You. EOT, yes? | 02:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: FYITA? | 02:37 |
| Estel_ | japh, still here? | 02:37 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, I've heard you're also optimistic about Jolla | 02:37 |
| beford | slashdot is getting really slow to catch news | 02:37 |
| Estel_ | slashdot is passe ;) | 02:37 |
| japh | estel_, your name looked like it couldv'e origin from there somewhere | 02:37 |
| japh | (I'm half czech) | 02:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | you are just full of sht and talking a lot, and doing nothing. simple as that. at least finish your N900 cover mod before asking for money and than talk. =) | 02:38 |
| Estel_ | ah, I see :) | 02:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | good that u see | 02:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | talking and watching? | 02:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | something new | 02:38 |
| Estel_ | lol, troll fest? | 02:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: and you are the winner | 02:38 |
| Estel_ | You know that i'm talking with japh, don't stick you e-penis to our discussion :) | 02:38 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: please tell 5 mre times "e-penis" | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: I'm just worrying about my neck: 60 minutes phone congerence, with a normal phone and typing on keyboard during that | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | conference even | 02:39 |
| Estel_ | Well, i'm going to maintain my projects the way I like it, and nice people arer supporting - also via donations and preoprders - it much. It seems to me, that you're little offensive vs allo people involved in custom body project for N900 | 02:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, go buy a headset. | 02:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ponders taking gaffa tape with hin | 02:39 | |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: right, scams are scams =) | 02:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Both of you shut up and move on. | 02:40 |
| Estel_ | well, kinda miserably pathetic from your side - attacking someone's project, cause Your troll ego "lost" capacitive screen/mobile computers feature discussion | 02:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: want to buy mega app for only 500$ that would enlarge your e-penis? | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: I got several headsets, but the phone has no receptacle ;-P | 02:40 |
| Estel_ | not to mention that it's comparing grapples to oranges... | 02:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, ah, one of those. Oops. | 02:40 |
| Estel_ | but accusing someone of scam just for the fun of it is kind aout of line, even for miserable childish troll like You. | 02:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Last warning Estel_ and ZogG_laptop. | 02:40 |
| Estel_ | I suggest You to get some deep breaths, and go for a walk | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hey, ow the fun starts :-D | 02:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i didn't lose. i had my opinion. but you was fanatic. and even better i win. coz most today phones have capacitive screen | 02:41 |
| Estel_ | well, I think this miserable quotation ends this discussion? :D | 02:41 |
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| Estel_ | It would be act of mercy to actually respond more - everyone saw enough to judge on it's own. | 02:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | GeneralAntilles: i'll just continue watching tv-show. i just couldn't stay aside with fanatic arguments and when someone turns in personal labeling. sorry | 02:42 |
| Estel_ | I wish You startiong, one day, a project that will gather people support, including monetary one. After all, it's all about contributing to Community | 02:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Trolling is an activity which thrives on attention. | 02:43 |
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| Estel_ | You have my guarantee, that I won't accuse You of scam just for the fun of it, or because I don't like your style of writing/arguments/whatever ;) | 02:43 |
| Estel_ | Good night and have fun | 02:43 |
| Estel_ | japh, continuing our (more productive) discussion, we must meet on beer one day :D | 02:44 |
| japh | estel_, heh that could be sooner than you'd think | 02:45 |
| Estel_ | why, visiting Poland soon? | 02:45 |
| japh | I'm going to czech in october with my parents and they've decided to stay for little over a month - in the meantime I've a few conferences to attend but then I'll likely be bored | 02:46 |
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| Estel_ | ah, I see, so you don't live there everyday? | 02:46 |
| japh | oh no, I live in sweden | 02:46 |
| japh | 5 billion options for firefox's ./configure | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | I see. Well, my love interest travels to Czech republic from time to time, due to studies and work | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | lol | 02:48 |
| japh | I'm going to be pissed if this doesn't compile on first try :p | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | ./configure hell | 02:48 |
| japh | I'm awfuly bad at where places and countries are relative to eachother, I just now that poland is down there somewhere not too far away | 02:49 |
| japh | right? | 02:49 |
| japh | know, even | 02:49 |
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| Estel_ | yes, it's little to the northeast | 02:53 |
| Estel_ | more north than east | 02:53 |
| Estel_ | have border with czech republic | 02:53 |
| Estel_ | and don't worry, i'm equally bad at describing countries surrounding sweden ;) | 02:54 |
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| LaoLang_cool | hello, how to move the cursor with keyboard in busybox? doesn't it support readline feature, for example, <ESC>b move backward one word | 02:56 |
| robbiethe1st | left/right arrow key? | 02:59 |
| japh | estel_, hehe great :) | 02:59 |
| japh | laolang_cool, no, grab bash and make yourself an inputrc | 02:59 |
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| LaoLang_cool | robbiethe1st, it's one charactor movement, too slow... | 03:02 |
| LaoLang_cool | japh, ahh... | 03:02 |
| japh | laolang_cool, n900 or something else? | 03:03 |
| LaoLang_cool | japh, maemo of course :) | 03:03 |
| japh | urk bash3 then | 03:04 |
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| LaoLang_cool | japh, thank you. doesn't want to install another shell though ;p | 03:05 |
| japh | what? | 03:05 |
| japh | you can not seriously want to use busyboxs ash | 03:06 |
| japh | I have already provided you with a working inputrc here | 03:06 |
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| LaoLang_cool | japh, I like busybox because it's simple and built-in :) | 03:10 |
| japh | :| | 03:10 |
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| Estel_ | japh, I understand him - while I know why bash > ash for msot people, for n900, ash suits my needs. everything, that can be done in bash, can be done in ash too, although using different methods, sometimes | 07:35 |
| Estel_ | it's conveinent to have same, enchanced (as in busybox-power) shell both in normal; usage, and in, lets say, recovery console, though | 07:36 |
| Estel_ | consistency between scripts, languages, etc | 07:36 |
| Estel_ | IMO, bash on n900 is rather about conveinence for not changing habits, than requiment to achieve something | 07:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | busybox and simple??? :-O | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | retarded is the term | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox | 09:03 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: please do `ps aux` in messybox! then come back here again and tell me messybox is simple and sufficient and can do everything | 09:05 |
| Macer | well | 09:05 |
| Macer | imessage is lame | 09:06 |
| Macer | end of sms my ass | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok ok, it's not exactly about messybox but about the missing unix tools, but that's what messybox is all about | 09:06 |
| kerio | sudo ping | 09:06 |
| kerio | just... fucking sudo ping | 09:06 |
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| kerio | IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SUID ROOT GODDAMMIT | 09:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or tar | 09:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you gonna "WTF?!? tar doesn't know gz???" | 09:07 |
| kerio | haha | 09:07 |
| kerio | my tar is gnu tar | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or a simple ls -l with sane format | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or basically anything * --help ; many thanks messybox! | 09:09 |
| kerio | can't we just put the proper ash there? | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# busybox ls --help 2>&1|wc -l | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 4 | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls --help 2>&1|wc -l | 09:12 |
| kerio | and real tools? | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 121 | 09:12 |
| kerio | or does stuff rely on busyboxisms? | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some stuff in user init (xinitrc or whatever) actually is said to rely on messyboxisms | 09:12 |
| kerio | messyboxisms or ashisms? | 09:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so it's been a fatal idea to set *user's* default shell to bash+unix-utils | 09:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | messyboxisms | 09:13 |
| kerio | huh | 09:13 |
| kerio | i guess i'm just lucky then | 09:13 |
| kerio | my default shell is bash + unix-utils | 09:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is info from PR1.0.1 | 09:14 |
| kerio | oic | 09:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc if it still applies nowadays, Nokia might have fixed the scripts | 09:14 |
| kerio | ...wait, nokia actually fixed a bug regarding the unix side? :o | 09:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the initscripts been constantly augmented for every PR | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with very first PR versions we had no hook for bootmenu | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for example | 09:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and for the life of mine I couldn't recall what exactly been the problem with busyboxisms in initscripts. Sth like the script relying on a particular very unusual output of some messybox builtin cmd like ls or mount or dunno what | 09:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so kerio you could do mankind a favour and test if your device will actually come up with mesybox removed | 09:21 |
| kerio | hah, i'll pass | 09:22 |
| kerio | i like my n900 best when it actually boots | 09:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | resp check how many of the symlinks like "/bin/mount -> busybox" are still in place and needed to boot your device | 09:24 |
| kerio | hehe | 09:24 |
| kerio | well at best i would've tried just putting bash in /bin/sh | 09:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's no problem at all | 09:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see my above pasts | 09:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# version | 09:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bash: version: command not found | 09:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# which bash | 09:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /bin/bash | 09:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ls -l $(echo $PATH|sed "s/:/ /g")|grep busybox | 09:30 |
| kerio | yes, i am aware of how much shit busybox does | 09:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (I didn't use proper `find` command on purpose) | 09:31 |
| kerio | hahaha | 09:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however many of those are neutered on my system, by /bin/gnu/* | 09:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# echo $PATH | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin/gnu:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin/gnu:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11 | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# which ls | 09:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/bin/gnu/ls | 09:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls -l /usr/bin/gnu/|wc -l | 09:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 119 | 09:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ...and I just notice diff and siblings isn't optified :-S | 09:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | cmp diff diff3 md5sum.textutils rgrep sdiff updatedb | 09:44 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: do you have something in /usr/bin/X11? | 09:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you bet I have | 09:53 |
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| kerio | i don't even have the directory :c | 09:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls -la /usr/bin/X11 | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 1 2009-10-30 12:29 /usr/bin/X11 -> . | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 09:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | wtf is THAT? | 09:56 |
| kerio | oh lol | 09:56 |
| kerio | that's cheating! | 09:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# /usr/bin/X11/ | 10:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Display all 759 possibilities? (y or n) | 10:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (the <tab<<tab> didn't print ;-D) | 10:01 |
| jonwil | time to start on something I should have started a week ago, my project to document as much of the N900 dbus interfaces as possible | 10:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | time to start my daywork | 10:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ...after headdesking a little about all the non-optified stuff in /usr/bin | 10:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | like 31648 2010-07-01 11:35 rtcom-messaging-ui.launch 1012968 2011-08-07 14:23 osso_pdfviewer.launch... | 10:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 313328 2010-06-08 13:12 osso_rss_feed_reader.launch | 10:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | harly used in early boot, any of those | 10:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | time to look into maemo-optify-* and how to use it | 10:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo-optify-auto-opt.sh maemo-optify-firstboot.sh maemo-optify-lib.sh maemo-optify-make-mountbind.sh | 10:20 |
| sambo7 | hi,just bricked my N900-did a nandtest /dev/mtd5 in terminal - now N900 is unresponsive -doesn't start, no charging via usb,etc - anything I can do? | 10:21 |
| jonwil | you might need to reflash | 10:22 |
| jonwil | which bit depends on just what /dev/mtd5 actually ponits to | 10:22 |
| sambo7 | device doesn't start-no led showing up, when connected to usb/power | 10:23 |
| freemangordon | coldflash ;) | 10:23 |
| vi__ | wow, you fucked it good. | 10:24 |
| vi__ | also, coldfalsh. | 10:24 |
| sambo7 | nothing happens,when I hit the power button | 10:24 |
| sambo7 | how to coldflash | 10:24 |
| sambo7 | ? | 10:24 |
| freemangordon | with the flasher | 10:24 |
| freemangordon | its tricky, but it works | 10:25 |
| sambo7 | fs was corrupted-my config was gone & I was looking for a way to restore my yappari.conf | 10:25 |
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| freemangordon | flash it, use your favourite serch engine for howto coldflash n900 | 10:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mtd5: 0fb40000 00020000 "rootfs" | 10:26 |
| sambo7 | had some ext3 errors in dmesg...tripped over this command...actually I wanted to do some fsck & e2fsck,but unfortunately I did that shit:-( | 10:27 |
| freemangordon | hmm, coldflash not needed then | 10:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should be fine with normal reflash | 10:27 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 10:27 |
| freemangordon | sambo7: remove the battery | 10:27 |
| freemangordon | start the flasher | 10:27 |
| freemangordon | connect USB cable with keyboard open | 10:27 |
| freemangordon | insert the battery while holding "u" on keyboard | 10:28 |
| sambo7 | ok,will try that-was wondering if I completely f*** up my beloved device, bacause no response at all | 10:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | haha my /var/log/maemo-optify-boottime.log is epic | 10:28 |
| sambo7 | ok,will follow this procedure & see what happens | 10:28 |
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| jonwil | holy crap bluez has a lot of interesting dbus-related info | 10:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: you probably missed: -k, --keep Restore existing contents after test | 10:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in nandtest ;-D | 10:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw nandtest actually has potential to fry your device for good | 10:30 |
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| jonwil | how can it do that? | 10:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: you don't want me to explain that here | 10:31 |
| jonwil | yeah :) | 10:31 |
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| * jonwil makes note not to use nandtest then | 10:31 | |
| jonwil | to be on the safe side :) | 10:31 |
| jonwil | somehow I dont think I need to document org.bluez.* in my N900 dbus guide :P | 10:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -p, --passes Number of passes | 10:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 10:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# stress --help | 10:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | `stress' imposes certain types of compute stress on your system | 10:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, sambo7 good luck! | 10:39 |
| sambo7 | my internet connection was disconnected...am on vacation-will try to reflash my N900 now | 10:40 |
| sambo7 | just hope I didn't fry it | 10:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: if flashing doesn't work, it's most likely a problem of your PC | 10:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: nah, your device is fine | 10:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just needs new rootfs | 10:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: see: | 10:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~flashing | 10:41 |
| infobot | i heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 10:41 |
| sambo7 | let's hope so-thank you for your help...will bive feedback as soon as it's running again-hope so | 10:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use a linux PC, don't forget to blacklist cdc_phonet! | 10:41 |
| sambo7 | have arch running parallel to win7 | 10:42 |
| sambo7 | will have a try...thx | 10:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (cdc_phonet) seems it needs blacklisting on virtually any arbitrary distro nowadays | 10:42 |
| sambo7 | should show up when I do a lsmod,when N900 by os? | 10:43 |
| sambo7 | n900 recognised by os | 10:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, after first flashing failure it will show up in lsmod | 10:43 |
| sambo7 | ok...will start reflashing now & return with feedback later | 10:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | fine! :-) you're welcome to also ask for guidance if anything doesn't work | 10:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doublecheck you download the recent version of *COMBINED* | 10:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | tagged "lastest" | 10:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | latest even | 10:46 |
| sambo7 | going through the Updating The Firmware thread right now... | 10:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | read the whole wikipage | 10:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a mess regarding structure, so you can't start at arbitrary headline and proceed step by step from there | 10:50 |
| sambo7 | I guess right now I have no possibility to recover my yappari.conf?didn't do a backup of that config file...ok,will read the whole wiki, before I mess up again | 10:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | .conf will probably live in your home, which will survive rootfs flashing | 10:51 |
| jonwil | yeah everything in /home/user will survive | 10:51 |
| jonwil | but everything else including /opt and /etc will be gone | 10:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'll need to restore all your apps from a backup | 10:52 |
| sambo7 | before I started to mess up, my problem was that suddenly my device didn't boot correctly | 10:52 |
| ShadowJK | my car charger's cable is frayed :-( | 10:53 |
| kerio | nandtest is fun | 10:53 |
| kerio | i hosed my sheevaplug with that | 10:53 |
| sambo7 | hab to after finally it booted again,all my settings were like default factory | 10:53 |
| sambo7 | my phone book was gone,my sms/phone/yappari history was gone...so was my yappari.conf | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: probably something messed up some hildon-desktop config files, and finally something 'recovered' | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ummm | 10:55 |
| kerio | well yes, you randomly overwritten stuff in your ubifs volume that holds / | 10:55 |
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| sambo7 | the problem was/is that yappari registration isn't working anymore | 10:55 |
| kerio | anyway, thumbified busybox-power ftw | 10:56 |
| sambo7 | so without conf-file I will have to re-register,which will fail | 10:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm afraid your nandtest enterprise wasn't your fist nor your worst mess-up | 10:56 |
| sambo7 | but I can live with that as long as I can debrick my beloved N900 | 10:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can debrick it | 10:57 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: he nandtested his rootfs | 10:57 |
| kerio | how can it not be the worst mess-up? | 10:57 |
| sambo7 | till today my worst mess-up;-) | 10:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but you *might* have to reflash *VANILLA* as well, to recover your /home fs | 10:57 |
| kerio | ...well, i suppose he could've nandtested NOLO | 10:57 |
| kerio | or something | 10:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: nope, he didn't | 10:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it's true that he did only test mtd5 | 10:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and aiui he's describing problems he had *before* he did that | 10:58 |
| kerio | no, i mean | 10:58 |
| kerio | to make an even worse fuck up | 10:58 |
| sambo7 | I nandtested mtd1-4...everything was fine, then started nandtest mtd5 and you know the result...mea culpa | 10:58 |
| kerio | hahahaha | 10:59 |
| kerio | he totally did | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OUCH!!!!!!!! | 10:59 |
| kerio | hahaahhahahahaha | 10:59 |
| kerio | awesome | 10:59 |
| kerio | ~coldflash | 10:59 |
| infobot | from memory, coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now you're thoroughly fsckd | 10:59 |
| kerio | nah, he just needs to coldflash | 10:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | he hosed CAL | 10:59 |
| kerio | ...oh | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | worst thing you can do | 11:00 |
| kerio | why is it even writable? | 11:00 |
| jonwil | its writable because BME writes to it | 11:00 |
| kerio | fukken BME | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now THAT will be interesting to watch if that device comes back before holiday ends | 11:00 |
| kerio | >:( | 11:00 |
| kerio | sambo7: you're screwed | 11:01 |
| sambo7 | I'm also curious | 11:01 |
| sambo7 | sorry,what is CAL? | 11:01 |
| jonwil | CAL contains special per-device configurations | 11:01 |
| jonwil | including WiFi and Bluetooth MAC addresses | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mtd1, the partition where all your basic hw config lives | 11:01 |
| kerio | and gsm imei? | 11:01 |
| kerio | ~cal | 11:02 |
| infobot | well, cal is a calendar. try $(cal 1752) | 11:02 |
| kerio | ...no, it's not | 11:02 |
| kerio | bad infobot | 11:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: you definitely need to coldflash | 11:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and with a lot of luck this will revive your device | 11:03 |
| jonwil | erasing CAL seems like one of the only pure-software ways to actually brick a N900 | 11:03 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: isn't CAL like... needed? | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unclear | 11:03 |
| kerio | for stuff? and stuff? | 11:03 |
| kerio | i seed | 11:03 |
| kerio | *see | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for obvious reasons nobody wanted to check it so far | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 11:04 |
| kerio | sambo7: looks like you're going to be our lab rat! be proud! | 11:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually unless you also nandtested mtd0, you might still be fine with normal flashing, sambo7 | 11:04 |
| jonwil | first N900 owner to hose the CAL and find out if doing it bricks the device or not :) | 11:04 |
| vi__ | Has somone finally found a way to brick an n900? | 11:05 |
| kerio | hmm, what's "log" (mtd2)? | 11:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nuking CAL always been known for a candidate | 11:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: kernel OOPS | 11:06 |
| vi__ | Also, what posessed you to do this? | 11:06 |
| kerio | why do we need 40000 of... something for those? | 11:06 |
| kerio | vi__: he wanted to test his nand! :D | 11:06 |
| vi__ | WTF for? | 11:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: because we love proper kernel dumps | 11:07 |
| kerio | hrmpf :c | 11:07 |
| kerio | k | 11:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: and he forgot to give -k, --keep Restore existing contents after test | 11:07 |
| kerio | vi__: nandtest makes a destructive test by default | 11:07 |
| vi__ | But where did he even find instructions on how to do this? | 11:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: | 11:08 |
| kerio | i did that on my sheevaplug at some point | 11:08 |
| vi__ | Surely alarm bells must have been ringing in his head... | 11:08 |
| kerio | it was fun, ubifs kept trucking along for a bit | 11:08 |
| vi__ | 'danger, sambo7 . DANGER'! | 11:08 |
| kerio | luckily the sheevaplug is Unbrickable© | 11:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | allegedly N900 too | 11:09 |
| sambo7 | I was a little overhasty...and didn't read the complete info on that command...since it's called nand"test"...I gave it a try without using my brain | 11:09 |
| kerio | the other *plugs are too, but they require a jtag board, the sheeva only needs a miniusb cable | 11:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so we'll see if that's actually true or not ;-) | 11:09 |
| jonwil | ok, lets see who writes to the CAL via libcal | 11:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | coldflash potentially *could* restore a default CAL | 11:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hell, even a standard flash could, as long as NOLO in mtd0 is still alive | 11:10 |
| sambo7 | does the N900 have some pins/etc. for serial connection on the inside? | 11:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 11:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | under battery | 11:11 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is the irreplaceable data in CAL actually replaceable then? | 11:11 |
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| kerio | sambo7: you don't need it | 11:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but you usually don't need them even for hardcore recovery | 11:11 |
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| kerio | when coldflashing, you load a partial NOLO in ram and you flash the actual NOLO | 11:11 |
| kerio | and then you flash the rest | 11:11 |
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| sambo7 | will start with cold flash soon | 11:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ram NOLO might not only flash nand NOLO but also restore CAL, if nand NOLO needs that for coming up | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or it doesn't and sambo7is screwed | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or NOLO doesn't need CAL at all, just friendly suggestions in there | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody but some Nokians knows | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but since sambo7says his device is a complete brick, I assume NOLO needs a proper CAL to come up | 11:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: check your PC syslog after plugging in N900 | 11:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might have some warning/fatal msgs from NOLO | 11:15 |
| freemangordon | sambo7: you also need to recall your HW revision | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or even no NOLO hello-world at all | 11:15 |
| freemangordon | coldflashing needs it | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh yes, that too, freemangordon | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good point | 11:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one of the things stored in CAL | 11:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which makes me think coldflashing actually doesn't need CAL and probably restores it | 11:16 |
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| jonwil | my god this grep of the N900 QT source code is gonna take forever :P | 11:18 |
| kerio | hm, how do i see my hw revision? | 11:21 |
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| conred | kerio: cat /proc/cpuinfo shows a Revision number | 11:27 |
| kerio | rev 3? | 11:28 |
| kerio | is that the hw revision? | 11:28 |
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| Pali | cat /proc/component_version | 11:32 |
| Pali | here is HW rev | 11:32 |
| jonwil | Pali, get any further with the prolog stuff yet? | 11:33 |
| Pali | I did not played with it | 11:33 |
| jonwil | ok | 11:33 |
| jonwil | I take it nothing more from any of the various Nokia things you emailed about (e.g. BME temprature calculation) | 11:33 |
| Pali | jonwil, I wrote steps which maybe working for replacing jack bias predicate in that binary plc file | 11:34 |
| jonwil | ok | 11:34 |
| Pali | jonwil, n9 bme dev wrote me that he try to look/ask for n900 bme code | 11:34 |
| Pali | also he forwared my email to other nokia dev | 11:34 |
| jonwil | ok | 11:35 |
| jonwil | Hopefully someone can find (and get permission to share) the math formula(s) for reading data from those ADCs and converting it into whatever libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme want | 11:35 |
| jonwil | we dont need (or want) all of BME, just the math formulas (and maybe the stuff for reading BME CAL area if its needed) | 11:36 |
| freemangordon | Pali: what? bme source code? I won't believe it even if i see it :P | 11:36 |
| Pali | I asked for battery temp formula | 11:36 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok | 11:36 |
| jonwil | btw pali, will the BME replacement thats being worked on be usable to replace BME in MeeGo/Mer/Nemo/etc? | 11:36 |
| Pali | and dev wrote that he tried to look into bme source code for that | 11:37 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: should be | 11:37 |
| Pali | jonwil, it will be in kernel, so yes | 11:37 |
| freemangordon | it is partially based on mer's libbmeipc | 11:37 |
| Pali | if nokia did not created more stupid apps which depends on bme, then there will be no problem | 11:37 |
| jonwil | ok, thats good, that means one less binary blob needed for open-os-on-n900 | 11:38 |
| freemangordon | Pali: they depend on libbmeipc | 11:38 |
| freemangordon | not BME itself | 11:38 |
| Pali | jonwil, charging battery is in kernel, so userspace do not need to know anything about charging... | 11:38 |
| freemangordon | well... | 11:38 |
| jonwil | only things on meego that depend on bme would be the pulseaudio bits | 11:38 |
| jonwil | and someone said they are going to replace those :) | 11:38 |
| Pali | freemangordon, that bme stuff can be develed from meego/mer/... when kernel driver will be loaded | 11:39 |
| Pali | jonwil, pulseaudio bits are open in meego | 11:39 |
| jonwil | not all of em | 11:39 |
| Pali | and now it does not depends on bme | 11:39 |
| jonwil | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=pulseaudio-modules-nokia&project=CE%3AAdaptation%3AN9xx-common | 11:39 |
| jonwil | Thats definatly NOT open source | 11:40 |
| freemangordon | because it depends on libbmeipc, which is a different beast | 11:40 |
| jonwil | and definatly for N900 MeeGo | 11:40 |
| Pali | uff | 11:40 |
| jonwil | Those modules contan all the secret stuff | 11:40 |
| Pali | wtf?? this is not in maemo... | 11:40 |
| jonwil | Nokia rewrote Pulseaudio for MeeGo | 11:41 |
| jonwil | to put all the secret bits into much smaller modules | 11:41 |
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| jonwil | so they could open a lot more of the PulseAudio stuff | 11:41 |
| jonwil | hence the creation of pulseaudio-modules-nokia | 11:41 |
| jonwil | pulseaudio-modules-meego contains the rest of what was in the Fremantle PA closed bits | 11:41 |
| Pali | other question, is that modules needed? | 11:41 |
| Pali | and what are doing? | 11:41 |
| jonwil | someone said they were working on bringing the latest pulseaudio to MeeGo/Mer/Nemo/etc | 11:42 |
| jonwil | and had knowledge of what to do about those modules | 11:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | XPROT | 11:42 |
| Pali | jonwil, ok | 11:42 |
| Pali | try to remeber that person | 11:42 |
| Pali | jonwil, for prolog stuff, see: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-07-25.log.html#t2012-07-25T12:37:35 | 11:43 |
| sambo7 | sorry for interrupting...was offline for a while...if I need hw rev. for coldflash,how do I find out when device is inaccessible?underneath the battery? | 11:43 |
| jonwil | it was in #mer or #nemomobile IIRC | 11:43 |
| Pali | if you still have swi prolog working, you can try to edit that binary plc file | 11:43 |
| jonwil | so you could scan the chanlogs for those 2 channels for the pulseaudio discussion | 11:43 |
| jonwil | and yes pulseaudio-modules-nokia does depend on libbmeipc | 11:44 |
| jonwil | for the bme battery temp reading (I think xprot needs it) | 11:44 |
| Pali | jonwil, that link is for N9/N950 | 11:44 |
| Pali | not for N900 | 11:44 |
| zeq1 | maybe we can RE the secret bits? | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: alas afaik hw-version is nowhere printed | 11:44 |
| jonwil | no, thats for N9xx | 11:44 |
| jonwil | which is for all 3 devices | 11:44 |
| jonwil | there is a section for N900 | 11:45 |
| jonwil | one for N9/N950 | 11:45 |
| jonwil | and one for all 3 | 11:45 |
| jonwil | which has that in it | 11:45 |
| jonwil | and the PowerVR bits | 11:45 |
| jonwil | and some other stuff thats the same between both | 11:45 |
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| Pali | ok | 11:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: jonwil: freemangordon: could you help out sambo7 a bit? I'm afk now | 11:46 |
| zeq1 | if the pulseaudio modules are smaller on MeeGo it's more viable to work out what they do through disassembly, although I'm sure they have been stripped of symbols. | 11:46 |
| jonwil | yeah I will help where I can | 11:46 |
| jonwil | they are smaller but its still complex to reverse engineer | 11:47 |
| jonwil | audio algorithms are not exactly easy to follow :) | 11:47 |
| Pali | sambo7, I do not know how to get hw revision | 11:47 |
| Pali | when device is off | 11:47 |
| jonwil | nor do I | 11:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | try 2101 | 11:47 |
| sambo7 | how many hw rev are there? | 11:48 |
| Pali | but nolo/xloader is same for all 21xx 22xx 23xx and 24xx | 11:48 |
| sambo7 | could try one after another | 11:48 |
| jonwil | right now though I am going to finish my work on documenting all this dbus stuff, then later I might work on my replacements for libcal, sysinfo, bluetooth-cal script and wl1251-cal that could be used (once BME is gone) to replace all those binary blobs for MeeGo/Mer/Nemo | 11:48 |
| Pali | and other 2yxx have other xloader/nolo code | 11:48 |
| jonwil | well not replacing sysinfo, eliminating the need for it | 11:48 |
| Pali | sambo7, try 2101 | 11:48 |
| sambo7 | can screw up my N900 that it already is,I guess | 11:48 |
| sambo7 | cannot I mean | 11:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there aren't many hw diffs afaik | 11:49 |
| Pali | specifing HW revision for coldflashing is needed only for flasher-3.5 to know which NOLO version will be sent from FIASCO image | 11:49 |
| Pali | and coldflashing does not erase CAL | 11:49 |
| jonwil | then that work could be changed by someone with kernel know-how to make the bluetooth and wlan bits work over standard interfaces | 11:49 |
| Pali | so after NOLO will start it send correct HW rev | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless CAL is nuked ;-D | 11:49 |
| jonwil | and also used to replace those same bits in CSSU | 11:50 |
| jonwil | but dbus first | 11:50 |
| Pali | jonwil, nice :-) | 11:50 |
| jonwil | The plan basically is to take the open cal read code and turn it into a clone of all the read functions of libcal | 11:50 |
| jonwil | i.e. libcal without the write bits | 11:51 |
| jonwil | and to write something to do bluetooth CAL | 11:51 |
| jonwil | do it without using sysinfo | 11:51 |
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| jonwil | and to clone wl1251-cal | 11:51 |
| Pali | read only cal parser already exists | 11:51 |
| Pali | see calvaria project | 11:51 |
| jonwil | yes I know | 11:51 |
| sambo7 | haven't used irc before...can I see a history of that chat later?or do I have to copy & paste?sorry for asking:-( | 11:51 |
| jonwil | that's what I mean, take it and rewrite it so its identical API to nokia libcal | 11:51 |
| jonwil | you can see the history later by reading the chanlog | 11:52 |
| jonwil | which is linked in the top | 11:52 |
| jonwil | topifd | 11:52 |
| jonwil | topic | 11:52 |
| sambo7 | ok,thank you...will have to continue debricking in the evening-don't have a data-flat here...will continue later with a flat | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | | 11:53 |
| kerio | Pali: sambo7 nandtested everything :D | 11:54 |
| jonwil | making calvaria identical to nokia libcal will help when writing things that will run on Fremantle with Nokia libcal and also on MeeGo/Mer/Nemo with this new open libcal | 11:54 |
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| *** definetelynotker is now known as notkerio | 11:54 | |
| *** notkerio is now known as kerio | 11:55 | |
| sambo7 | great,will answer back in the evening...will have to detract myself now from messing up...hope a leap intio the lake will help | 11:56 |
| Pali | jonwil, also look at project libopencal | 11:56 |
| Pali | sambo7, ok | 11:56 |
| sambo7 | little irritating that nandtest is not only testing... | 11:56 |
| kerio | hehehe | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if that friggin nandtest doesn't spit out BIG FAT WARNING, it's a PoS | 11:57 |
| kerio | it doesn't, no | 11:57 |
| jonwil | got a link to libopencal? | 11:57 |
| sambo7 | I guess I will remember that mess for a centuries | 11:57 |
| kerio | the whole of mtdtools is really not user friendly | 11:57 |
| jacekowski | n900 is dead | 11:58 |
| kerio | jacekowski: don't be like that :( | 11:58 |
| kerio | be optimistic! | 11:58 |
| sambo7 | @Doc...I agree | 11:58 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: does dd spit out a big fat warning? | 11:58 |
| kerio | vi__: badblocks does, i think | 11:59 |
| kerio | at least there's one in the man page | 11:59 |
| vi__ | dd==gnu disk destroyer. | 11:59 |
| Pali | jonwil, https://github.com/slonopotamus/opendsme/blob/master/src/libopencal.c | 11:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: on dd thew name is the warning ;-) | 11:59 |
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| Pali | jonwil, but this is for diablo | 12:00 |
| jonwil | still a nice start | 12:00 |
| jonwil | oooh https://github.com/slonopotamus/opendsme/blob/master/src/open-wlan-cal.c | 12:00 |
| jonwil | That might also be a good starting point | 12:00 |
| jonwil | actually no | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | slono long time no see | 12:01 |
| jonwil | Diablo device has totally different wlan chip IIRC | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen slonopotamus | 12:01 |
| infobot | slonopotamus <~slonopota@176.57.72.72> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 59d 14h 17s ago, saying: 'DocScrutinizer51: you're killing all fun'. | 12:01 |
| kerio | that's true, yeah | 12:01 |
| Pali | what did you killed?? | 12:01 |
| kerio | all fun!!! | 12:02 |
| vi__ | ALL THE FUN. | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 12:02 |
| vi__ | ~DocScrutinizer05 | 12:02 |
| vi__ | ~DocScrutinizer05 | 12:02 |
| vi__ | ~DocScrutinizer05 is killing all fun | 12:02 |
| infobot | vi__: okay | 12:02 |
| sambo7 | If I'm not able to recover, my N900 will end up as a souvenir on my wall & a kick in my a.. | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq | 12:03 |
| jonwil | ok, I will use libopencal and calvaria and produce something that is (for reading at least) 100% identical to N900 libcal | 12:03 |
| sambo7 | not as bad a killing your N900 | 12:03 |
| vi__ | ~seen slonopotamus | 12:03 |
| infobot | slonopotamus <~slonopota@176.57.72.72> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 59d 14h 2m 20s ago, saying: 'DocScrutinizer51: you're killing all fun'. | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ DocScrutinizer05 is <reply>see DocScrutinizer | 12:03 |
| infobot | ...but docscrutinizer05 is already something else... | 12:03 |
| Pali | jonwil, ok | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ no, DocScrutinizer05 is <reply>see DocScrutinizer | 12:03 |
| infobot | I think you lost me on that one, DocScrutinizer05 | 12:03 |
| jonwil | Wont try to get writing working as I dont want to be the one testing it | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, DocScrutinizer05 is <reply>see DocScrutinizer | 12:03 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 | 12:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~lock DocScrutinizer05 | 12:04 |
| infobot | locking factoid docscrutinizer05, DocScrutinizer05 | 12:04 |
| jonwil | i.e. getting writing code wrong and hosing my N900 :P | 12:04 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: lame, you are killing fun | 12:04 |
| Pali | jonwil, writing can be tested in qemu | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ DocScrutinizer06 is <reply>see DocScrutinizer | 12:04 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~lock DocScrutinizer06 | 12:04 |
| infobot | locking factoid docscrutinizer06, DocScrutinizer05 | 12:04 |
| jonwil | I dont have qemu going on my SB dev setup | 12:04 |
| jonwil | plus we dont need writing | 12:04 |
| Pali | jonwil, qemu from madde | 12:05 |
| jonwil | I dont have qemu going at all | 12:05 |
| vi__ | sambo7: If you have totally hosed your n900 you can still sell it. The N900 is so badass even broken ones will fetch at least $50. | 12:05 |
| Pali | yes, why is writing support needed? | 12:05 |
| jonwil | and dont want to mess around getting it going | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ DocScrutinizer05 | 12:05 |
| infobot | [docscrutinizer] jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko | 12:05 |
| kerio | ~docscrutinizer05 | 12:05 |
| infobot | from memory, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko | 12:05 |
| kerio | but if he's joerg, why is he docscrutinizer? | 12:05 |
| vi__ | kerio: That is like his IRL name. | 12:06 |
| jonwil | On Fremantle (where things do need writing), we keep using Nokia libcal as-is (and nokia libcal-dev) and on Meego/Mer/Nemo, we can ship the open libcal so we dont have to ship as many binary blobs | 12:06 |
| kerio | so? not l33t enough? | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~joerg | 12:06 |
| kerio | it's a cool acronym | 12:06 |
| infobot | i guess joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen joerg | 12:07 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: i haven't seen 'joerg' | 12:07 |
| sambo7 | @vi_...wouldn't sell it...will keep-wiil serve me as a warning | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /ns info joerg | 12:07 |
| vi__ | ~seen assface lake | 12:07 |
| infobot | vi__: i haven't seen 'assface lake' | 12:07 |
| vi__ | ~seen a woman naked | 12:07 |
| infobot | i haven't seen 'a woman naked', vi__ | 12:07 |
| kerio | oh you | 12:08 |
| jonwil | my god qtmobility has some usefull info on some otherwise undocumented dbus things :) | 12:08 |
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| sambo7 | is there a device running linux with better hw than the N900/N950? | 12:12 |
| sambo7 | with a keyboard? | 12:12 |
| StyXman_ | sambo7: besides the few android phones with keybs (technically, android is linux, and wiyh a lot of effort you can port anything), I don't think so | 12:14 |
| sambo7 | was thinking about all devices but android ones;-) | 12:16 |
| edheldil | hopefully they complete the Jolla , but given the state of patent wars, I wonder .... | 12:16 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: As I mentioned yesterday, the reason Nokia used 2.6.0 as the minimum kernel version for glibc was because the old qemu versions available for SB do not support the syscalls available in 2.6.28. Therefore I'm porting the SB QEMU patches to the current Debian QEMU 1.0 and 1.1.x releases, and creating an updated cputransp devkit. | 12:17 |
| vi__ | zeq1: You are a mcahine, | 12:21 |
| vi__ | s/mcahine/machine/ | 12:21 |
| infobot | vi__ meant: zeq1: You are a machine, | 12:21 |
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| Pali | sambo7, did you alredy try to coldflash? | 12:22 |
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| freemangordon | zeq1: ok | 12:23 |
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| jonwil | zeq1: will your work mean that we can bump up the kernel version in libc to 2.6.28 or whatever? | 12:25 |
| jonwil | i.e. libc for CSSU | 12:25 |
| zeq1 | that's the idea, yes | 12:25 |
| zeq1 | right now the SDK is holding it back | 12:25 |
| zeq1 | the kernel is actually more capable than the qemu in sb | 12:26 |
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| zeq1 | I'm having to effectively re-write the patches since the code has changed quite a lot, but I should have it working later today. | 12:26 |
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| jonwil | ok | 12:28 |
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| sambo7 | @PALI...no,not yet coldflashed...will have to wait until evening-don't have a flat here...am on vacation | 12:31 |
| Pali | ok | 12:31 |
| vi__ | ... | 12:31 |
| vi__ | You ran a nandtest while on vacation? | 12:31 |
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| freemangordon | vi__: now, that's an obbsession :D | 12:33 |
| sambo7 | @jecokowski...where do you reside?I'm on vacation in Poland...maybe you could come around & help me out:-) | 12:33 |
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| freemangordon | hehe | 12:33 |
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| freemangordon | zeq1: if you fix "$package/DEBIAN exists but is not a directory" I will owe you a beer | 12:35 |
| freemangordon | FUUUK | 12:36 |
| freemangordon | install: `debian/libnspr4/DEBIAN' exists but is not a directory | 12:36 |
| freemangordon | dh_makeshlibs: command returned error code 256 | 12:36 |
| freemangordon | make: *** [binary-arch] Error 1 | 12:36 |
| freemangordon | anyone? ^^^ | 12:36 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: what's that from? | 12:37 |
| freemangordon | different packages | 12:37 |
| freemangordon | this one is from microb-engine | 12:37 |
| freemangordon | happens from time to time, packaging with "exists but..." error | 12:38 |
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| freemangordon | s/packaging/packaging fails/ | 12:38 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: happens from time to time, packaging fails with "exists but..." error | 12:38 |
| freemangordon | something with debhelper, qemu, NFC | 12:38 |
| freemangordon | BUT IT DRIVES ME MAAAAD | 12:39 |
| zeq1 | maybe new qemu will help, although it doesn't sound like it's the problem here to me | 12:39 |
| zeq1 | debhelper could be | 12:39 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: i think it is qemu | 12:40 |
| zeq1 | we'll see if the new version fixes it | 12:40 |
| zeq1 | you could meanwhile try upgrading your debian-etch devkit? | 12:40 |
| freemangordon | how? | 12:41 |
| zeq1 | the devkits are all distributed as x86 binaries | 12:41 |
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| zeq1 | from scratchbox.org | 12:41 |
| zeq1 | just download the latest version and unpack it into your /opt/scratchbox/devkits | 12:42 |
| zeq1 | after moving the old version out of the way | 12:42 |
| freemangordon | i think i have the latest | 12:42 |
| freemangordon | some time ago i checked that | 12:43 |
| zeq1 | I remember when we looked the other day you had 1 version older than the version I have | 12:43 |
| freemangordon | hmm | 12:43 |
| zeq1 | I'd better get back to hacking ;) | 12:44 |
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| freemangordon | zeq1: upgraded to scratchbox-devkit-debian (1.0.12), lets see | 12:52 |
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| zeq1 | freemangordon: absolute crazyness. I was attempting to use the documented process for developing scratchbox devkits using the etch build environemnt, but I needed libglib-2.0-dev, so I run apt-get update; apt-get install libglib-2.0-dev, and proceded to break the enviroment when the updated libc6 from etch decided it couldn't complete installation as I am running on a *REAL* i386 CPU! Using FREMANTLE_X86 instead is going bet | 13:55 |
| zeq1 | so close... I can't make my final link because the cs2007 i486 toolchain isn't wanting to link the libc.a from fremantle-x86 into the final executable :( | 13:58 |
| zeq1 | looks like I'm going to have to build that x86 scratchbox toolchain | 13:59 |
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| zeq1 | a question for all: do I make a i686 -> i486 cross-compiler as is currently supplied with scratchbox, or do i just build a i686 host compiler? | 14:01 |
| zeq1 | what is the target arch of FREMANTLE_X86? | 14:01 |
| Hurrian | zeq1, if the target in the env is really i486, stick to making a cross compiler unless you want gcc to wrap as "gcc-4.x --march=i486" | 14:05 |
| Hurrian | libc is quirky like that | 14:05 |
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| zeq1 | Hurrian: is there a way I can find out? | 14:07 |
| zeq1 | readelf -A /lib/libc-2.5.so doesn't give me anything | 14:07 |
| Hurrian | it should be in the tuple | 14:08 |
| Hurrian | gcc doesn't store it's cross target info | 14:08 |
| zeq1 | uname -m returns i386 | 14:09 |
| zeq1 | tbh, I've been using AMD64 for so long I can't remember whether that would show i686 or not | 14:10 |
| zeq1 | :S | 14:10 |
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| zeq1 | Hurrian: do you have a real x86 system? | 14:11 |
| Hurrian | who doesn't? | 14:11 |
| chem|st | zeq1: i386 is 32bit | 14:11 |
| chem|st | isn't it? | 14:11 |
| zeq1 | chem|st: I know, but it's also different from i686 | 14:11 |
| Hurrian | zeq1, it's just some optimisation flags | 14:11 |
| Hurrian | Debian still builds with i386 target | 14:12 |
| zeq1 | instruction availablity | 14:12 |
| Hurrian | Arch builds with i686 target | 14:12 |
| Hurrian | if you're pulling stuff from Debian, it should work | 14:12 |
| chem|st | I have 64 and 32 installed on my netbook... one is i386 and the other is i686 I think | 14:12 |
| shadowx_ | root@infoTV:~# uname -m | 14:12 |
| shadowx_ | i686 | 14:12 |
| Hurrian | if you're building on an amd64 machine on the host, you may have a problem | 14:12 |
| zeq1 | I'm referring to fremantle/x86 | 14:12 |
| chem|st | 64bit? | 14:12 |
| chem|st | 32bit | 14:13 |
| zeq1 | Hurrian: that's okay, I have a 32bit chroot | 14:13 |
| zeq1 | chem|st: stock fremantle/x86 SDK | 14:13 |
| chem|st | should be 32bit iirc | 14:13 |
| zeq1 | yes, but i386, i486, or i686 :P | 14:13 |
| chem|st | ah ok | 14:13 |
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| zeq1 | normally, I would just go for i686, but scratchbox comes with a i486 cross-compiler :S | 14:14 |
| chem|st | zeq1: harmattan and fremantle are i486 | 14:14 |
| zeq1 | i486, ok | 14:15 |
| zeq1 | I'll build a cross-compiler then, rather than a i686 host-compiler | 14:15 |
| zeq1 | I wasn't sure what toolchain fremantle was built with | 14:15 |
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| zeq1 | chem|st: that's despite the pkg having i386 in the name? | 14:19 |
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| chem|st | uname -m in scratchbox returns i486 | 14:21 |
| chem|st | and that is for sure not my hostsystem | 14:22 |
| zeq1 | ok :) | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | i386 is kinda generic | 14:23 |
| zeq1 | SpeedEvil: it's both generic and specific :P | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | I used a 386 yesterday. | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Though it was a 386ex | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | In my garmin GPS12 | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | (I've idly wondered over the years about putting linux on it) | 14:24 |
| zeq1 | they've stopped making them recently haven't they? | 14:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | But it never came to anything. | 14:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | I assume you mean 386exs | 14:24 |
| zeq1 | yes | 14:25 |
| zeq1 | I guess I do :) | 14:25 |
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| jonwil | I am surprised anyone would be using x86 for anything other than a full desktop/laptop PC | 14:26 |
| jonwil | when there are so many better options | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | There weren't. | 14:26 |
| jonwil | how old is this hardware? | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Back in 1993 (?) 386 was one of a very, very limited number of lowish power processors. | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | high performance. | 14:27 |
| jonwil | yeah good point, ARM didn't exist yet | 14:27 |
| jonwil | and things like zilog had no power | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | I think there may have been MIPS around, but my memory is fuzzy. | 14:27 |
| jonwil | 68000 was another choice used by such people IIRC | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | I think that would have been broadly comparable. | 14:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | IIRC it only had 2M RAM | 14:28 |
| zeq1 | ARM have been around londer than that | 14:28 |
| SpeedEvil | And digikey doesn't stock any parts with 386ex in the title | 14:28 |
| zeq1 | s/londer/longer/ | 14:28 |
| infobot | zeq1 meant: ARM have been around longer than that | 14:28 |
| zeq1 | I was using an ARM in 1989 | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | As parts suitable for embedded hardware though? | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | The 386ex is a system on a chip - you need very few external components. | 14:29 |
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| zeq1 | they weren't high power compared to contemporary x86 hardware | 14:29 |
| jonwil | anyone know what ke-recv is? | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | zeq1: No, but if they needed an extra dozen chips... | 14:30 |
| zeq1 | SpeedEvil: depended what you wanted to do | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | indeed | 14:30 |
| zeq1 | I don't think they made out of Acorn until the Apple Newton? | 14:31 |
| zeq1 | or am I getting my history confused? | 14:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyway - back at that time the 386ex was a sane choice. It got 12h on 4 AA cells. | 14:31 |
| jonwil | these days of course you would be stupid to put x86 in anything embedded | 14:32 |
| zeq1 | yeah, and was well proven, with the hw bugs removed | 14:32 |
| zeq1 | even today there aren't a lot of choices for radiation/EMP hardened devices though | 14:33 |
| jonwil | if it wasnt for the need (and desire) to run Windows, there would be a lot less x86 powered netbooks and tablets out there | 14:33 |
| zeq1 | jonwil: you mean DOS :P | 14:33 |
| jonwil | I mean Windows (or rather Windows Netbook or whatever MS is calling it these days) | 14:34 |
| zeq1 | never heard of it :) | 14:34 |
| zeq1 | The momementum behind the desktop ubiquity of ix86 really came from 80x86 DOS compatiblity. | 14:36 |
| jonwil | yes it did | 14:36 |
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| jonwil | but the reason x86 survives outside of core desktop and laptop markets is mostly because of Windows, if it wasnt for Windows, vendors would be picking ARM instead of x86 for netbooks and tablets. | 14:37 |
| zeq1 | if it wasn't for that Microsoft if they still exisited would have written their software to be portable | 14:37 |
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| Jaffa | zeq1: ARM was spun out of Acorn to be a JV with Apple and VLSI for the Newton, yes. | 14:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a nexus 7. | 14:39 |
| Jaffa | zeq1: First ARM was available in about 1985/86 as the "ARM Development Board", an ARM co-processor for the BBC's Tube interface. | 14:39 |
| SpeedEvil | It's amazingly fast, in many ways. | 14:39 |
| Jaffa | zeq1: First used in a proper machine in the Archimedes in 1987 | 14:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | Though - to drag it back on topic - I don't like the task switcher. | 14:40 |
| zeq1 | Jaffa: I had a number of Acorn machines over the years | 14:40 |
| Jaffa | SpeedEvil: I played on a colleague's - biggest problem, which'd be a showstopper for me was that fast typing in landscape mode meant I kept hitting 'Home' when I wanted 'space' | 14:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: I find getting up to speed on the vkbd is painful. | 14:40 |
| Jaffa | zeq1: I've been playing with RISC OS 5 from http://riscosopen.org recently (since it's getting more focus with the Raspberry Pi) | 14:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: At the very least, the thing should beep differently as you hit keys off centre. | 14:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Other than the lack of a hwkbd, it's very nearly my ideal casual browsing device. | 14:41 |
| freemangordon | in the meanwile: microb-engine is successfuly built with GCC 4.7.2 | 14:41 |
| SpeedEvil | 'swipe' would make it wonderful. | 14:41 |
| zeq1 | Jaffa: I always quite liked the RISC OS Desktop, but the underlying OS was always a bit of a cludge. | 14:41 |
| Jaffa | zeq1: But yes, you're right. Late 80s/early 90s, Acorn's machines running with ARM chips were faster than equivalently clocked x86 and used less power. | 14:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm still using my n900 a lot though. | 14:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Basically as I'm not so scared of dropping it at this point :) | 14:42 |
| Jaffa | zeq1: It's pleasantly simple for a hobbyist OS now. Even if it's still fairly easy to lockup | 14:42 |
| Jaffa | SpeedEvil: :) | 14:42 |
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| zeq1 | I haven't used RISC OS since version 3.5+ | 14:43 |
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| zeq1 | I ended up putting Linux on my Acorn RPC :) | 14:44 |
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| zeq1 | on topic: what's the triplet for fremantle/x86? | 14:45 |
| zeq1 | i486-none-linux-gnu? | 14:45 |
| zeq1 | i486-pc-linux-gnu? | 14:45 |
| zeq1 | ??? | 14:45 |
| vi__ | in the meanwile: microb-engine is successfuly built with GCC 4.7.2 | 14:46 |
| vi__ | ^this gives me a mega boner. | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 14:46 |
| vi__ | SpeedEvil: Get an otterbox. | 14:46 |
| vi__ | Put your tank phone in a tank box. | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | What's that? | 14:47 |
| freemangordon | yeah, and it works (at least on my developer device), HTTPS TLS error is gone | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah | 14:47 |
| vi__ | MANSIZE phone. | 14:47 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: :D | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a silicone case. | 14:47 |
| freemangordon | ;) | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | It's 2mm or so on each side | 14:47 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: I wonder if it's the same bug as affected fennec? | 14:47 |
| vi__ | SpeedEvil: Are you kdding me? The otterbox is the toughest of all the n900 cases. | 14:47 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: do you know what the triplet is for fremantle/x86? | 14:48 |
| vi__ | Also, when you take the N900 out of it, the N900 looks so slim and sexy! | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 14:48 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: I can bet on that (the bug) | 14:48 |
| vi__ | People always mock my N900 in a otterbox. | 14:49 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: why not login in FREMANTLE_X86 and check? | 14:49 |
| vi__ | They say, lol what is that? It is not the 80's anymore. | 14:49 |
| zeq1 | because that's too obvious DOH | 14:49 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 14:49 |
| vi__ | And I'm like 'hah, this is not a phone it is a computer. It is so good I can even you Cron to run a gsync script every hour over an encypted SSH tunnel' | 14:50 |
| zeq1 | i486-linux-gnu | 14:50 |
| vi__ | And they go but it doesn't have FROOT NINJA. | 14:50 |
| * vi__ forever alone. | 14:50 | |
| freemangordon | zeq1: :D | 14:50 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: it's not a problem building the devkit in fremantle/x86 do you think? | 14:51 |
| Jaffa | zeq1: RPCemu is quite nice, as it works with the "shared source" version available free: https://twitter.com/jaffa2/status/222788836005130240/photo/1/large | 14:51 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: it's not exactly SB standard, but I can't see what else I can do being unable to update the SB etch environment. | 14:52 |
| vi__ | RiSC OS still exists? | 14:52 |
| zeq1 | vi__: yes | 14:52 |
| vi__ | mother of god. | 14:52 |
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| vi__ | why won't it die? | 14:52 |
| zeq1 | as does Acorn, unbelievably, although no longer associated | 14:53 |
| kerio | what the hell, otterbox.com lists "Lumia N900" as a nokia model | 14:53 |
| zeq1 | now known as element14 | 14:54 |
| zeq1 | kerio: ????? | 14:54 |
| vi__ | In secondary school, our curriculum was so outdated we used to run an econet of acorn archimedes A400(?) to emulate a serial network of BBC micros to learn programming in COBOL. | 14:55 |
| kerio | exactly | 14:55 |
| zeq1 | vi__: cool | 14:55 |
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| vi__ | We were learning an obsolete language on networked obsolete hardware emulating a network h even more obsoleter hardware. | 14:56 |
| zeq1 | since element14 are behind R-pi it's quite fitting to get RISC OS on it I guess :) | 14:56 |
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| vi__ | s/h/of/ | 14:56 |
| infobot | vi__ meant: We were learning an obsolete language on networked obsolete ofardware emulating a network h even more obsoleter hardware. | 14:56 |
| vi__ | fuckit. | 14:57 |
| zeq1 | I don't think you did mean that ;) | 14:57 |
| kerio | hm, i wonder if there's an xl version of the otterbox | 14:57 |
| vi__ | kerio: They are quite small. | 14:57 |
| Jaffa | vi__: But, you were learning something. Unlike the recent ICT curriculum which taught Word, Excel & PowerPoint | 14:58 |
| vi__ | Jaffa: That makes me so F* mad. | 14:58 |
| kerio | vi__: yeah, i meant one for a mugen battery | 14:58 |
| vi__ | They are teaching UK kids useless stuff on outdated proprietory software. | 14:59 |
| kerio | or a double scud | 14:59 |
| Jaffa | vi__: I did some proper RISC OS hacking a few weeks ago, and it's surprising still how *fun* it is (compared with, say, fighting Qt Creator and random deployment problems to mobile devices) | 14:59 |
| vi__ | What damn use is an O level in using MS Word 2002? | 14:59 |
| vi__ | Jaffa: Aaaah, to compute in more innocent times. | 15:01 |
| Jaffa | Fortunately, despite Michael Gove being an irritating git generally, he stopped the ICT curriculum after Eric Schmidt's comments and the lobbying/press around RPi etc. | 15:01 |
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| Jaffa | Unfortunately, this has meant lots of teachers don't know how to do the new requirements when it restarts in September. | 15:02 |
| Jaffa | Hopefully, the production launch of the RPi will come with sufficient number of educational resources to make it relevant (and necessary) | 15:02 |
| kerio | what's so fun in the RPi? | 15:02 |
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| Jaffa | kerio: In general? Cheap & GPIO & press attention | 15:03 |
| kerio | hm, the gpio could be neat | 15:03 |
| kerio | anything else can be done better by a sheevaplug | 15:03 |
| Jaffa | Depends what you want to do. | 15:04 |
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| Jaffa | If you want to get a movement going, and re-energise people into hacking, you need momentum & press. The Pi has that, so it's therefore the best vanguard ATM | 15:04 |
| frals | the sheevaplug is quite a bit more expensive thou? | 15:05 |
| Jaffa | About $100 according to a quick Google | 15:05 |
| frals | at least mine was, and no display/audio out | 15:05 |
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| frals | the only thing it has over the rpi i guess is ram size | 15:06 |
| Jaffa | Alison Randall gave a very cool talk at oscon on the hardware & software she used to do home automation and smart home stuff. | 15:06 |
| frals | cpu might be a tad better as well, but gpu in rpi should compensate | 15:06 |
| Jaffa | http://jeelabs.com/products/jeenode looks cool, as does http://www.tinkerforge.com/ and http://ninjablocks.com/ | 15:07 |
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| kerio | the jeenode has an 8-bit cpu | 15:09 |
| frals | neat | 15:09 |
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| Jaffa | Yeah, she ended up writing her own TCP/IP stack for the 66 byte packets so it was easier to program. That's how she defines "easier" | 15:10 |
| frals | heh | 15:10 |
| Jaffa | http://www.oscon.com/oscon2012/public/schedule/detail/24392 - more detail in the slides, but no video of the very cool session (even if the live demo didn't completely work 100%) | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | (Bah, got the double 'l's the wrong way round in her name) | 15:13 |
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| Raimu | vi__ But you can have FROOT NINJA on the n900 ._. | 16:14 |
| jacekowski | hmm, nokia n9 for 2000SAR | 16:16 |
| jacekowski | reasonable price? | 16:16 |
| Raimu | 533 bucks! :G | 16:17 |
| jacekowski | little bit more than that in reality | 16:17 |
| jacekowski | nobody ever gets google exchange rate | 16:17 |
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| Raimu | *cough* xe.com/ucc | 16:22 |
| Raimu | "Mid-market rates" | 16:23 |
| Raimu | I guess Google displays the same rates. | 16:23 |
| jacekowski | if you get some cash at that rate let me know | 16:24 |
| Raimu | ;P fat chance. | 16:24 |
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| kerio | hm, what's the "firefox" in ovi store? | 16:32 |
| kerio | is it an old version of fennec? | 16:32 |
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| Lava_Croft | yes | 16:34 |
| Lava_Croft | just steer clear from fennec unless someone finally made it usable | 16:34 |
| Lava_Croft | its really bad to be spoiled by chrome on nexus7 :< | 16:34 |
| Lava_Croft | but good thing that Android is a pos | 16:34 |
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| zeq1 | Lava_Croft: if you want to make a new port of Chrome to Fremanle, I'm sure nobody will complain. | 16:36 |
| Lava_Croft | zeq1: no shit | 16:36 |
| Lava_Croft | i wouldnt complain either! | 16:36 |
| Lava_Croft | well, i would, since chrome is odd | 16:36 |
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| Lava_Croft | there's already websites that state you need Chrome to view them | 16:36 |
| Lava_Croft | so its getting a bit MSIE6 now | 16:36 |
| zeq1 | Lava_Croft: I'm going to get back to fennec again once I've finished with the SB infrastructure bits | 16:41 |
| Lava_Croft | zeq1: i was being a bit harsh :< | 16:42 |
| Lava_Croft | i very much appreciate the work on fennec! | 16:42 |
| Pali | Maemo mirror.list for apt-mirror is complete: https://wiki.maemo.org/Apt-mirror | 16:42 |
| Lava_Croft | its basically the only close-to-normal browser for the n900 | 16:42 |
| Pali | Who has enought space for backup?? | 16:42 |
| Jaffa | Lava_Croft: Bit annoying that the tab bar and the navigation bar don't scroll out of the way on the Nexus 7 - especially in landscape | 16:42 |
| Lava_Croft | Jaffa: yes | 16:42 |
| Lava_Croft | and its camera is just wtf | 16:42 |
| Lava_Croft | might as well have not included it | 16:43 |
| Jaffa | Pali: Page doesn't say how much, or how much it changes per day | 16:43 |
| Lava_Croft | overall im not a fan of the Android OS anyway:< | 16:43 |
| Lava_Croft | but the price/quality on the Nexus7 is ridiculously good | 16:43 |
| Lava_Croft | i imported mine from the US, saved me 100euros in comparison to the 250euro price they put on it once it releases here in the Netherlands | 16:43 |
| Lava_Croft | 100euros is a bit steep for a europowerplug | 16:44 |
| Pali | Jaffa, I do not know how many GB space is needed... | 16:44 |
| Pali | I only created mirror.list files | 16:44 |
| Lava_Croft | Pali: is that 'everything'? | 16:44 |
| Pali | Lava_Croft, what I know | 16:44 |
| Lava_Croft | i cant back it up, but ill ask around | 16:45 |
| Lava_Croft | this is fairly important | 16:45 |
| Lava_Croft | maybe the guy hosting my irssi can back it up | 16:45 |
| Pali | I think there should be all for fremantle | 16:45 |
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| Jaffa | Lava_Croft: I might've bought one whilst in the US last week, but didn't find one in stock. Had a play with one back in the UK and the hardware's nice, the OS feels less cluttered on the big screen but the virtual keyboard buttons annoyed me whilst trying to type quickly in landscape (something that I can do well on the iPad) | 16:46 |
| Lava_Croft | yup | 16:46 |
| Lava_Croft | its basically my galaxy nexus, only bigger, faster and without 2g/3g radios | 16:46 |
| Lava_Croft | same goes for most apps from Google Play | 16:46 |
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| Lava_Croft | its just treated as a big phone, sadly | 16:47 |
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| Lava_Croft | and the keyboard, well | 16:47 |
| Lava_Croft | never liked android keyb:X | 16:47 |
| Lava_Croft | its very uncomfortable to type in landscape, and my wife feels its not as accurate either | 16:48 |
| Lava_Croft | she uses mostly just portrait mode | 16:48 |
| kerio | damn, the nexus 7 looks yummy | 16:48 |
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| Lava_Croft | (not as accurate as her iphone4) | 16:48 |
| Lava_Croft | i must say that Minecraft PE is pretty neat on it tho | 16:48 |
| Jaffa | :) | 16:48 |
| Lava_Croft | but damn 250euro price | 16:49 |
| Lava_Croft | 150euros would be great, but 250 is just too much | 16:49 |
| Lava_Croft | damn euro prices | 16:49 |
| Lava_Croft | 250e comes too close to a previous-gen ipad | 16:49 |
| Lava_Croft | or a used ipad | 16:49 |
| Jaffa | Will be interesting to see if Apple do come out with an iPad "Mini" at a similar price point | 16:52 |
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| Lava_Croft | They probably will | 16:52 |
| Lava_Croft | What I am more interested in is their logic behind making one:) | 16:53 |
| Lava_Croft | Since Emperor Jobs already declared them dead on arrivale | 16:53 |
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| Jaffa | Lava_Croft: The screen size comparison is quite convincing. 7.85" 4:3 vs. 7" 16:9 will be a big difference (especially in landscape typing) | 16:59 |
| Jaffa | The only question is then if 7.85" 4:3 is too big. It won't fit in jacket pockets, for example, unlike the 7" 16:9 form-factor and Kindle | 16:59 |
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| kerio | ~pali | 17:04 |
| infobot | from memory, pali is http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/ | 17:04 |
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| kerio | is there a way to *set* the data counters? | 17:26 |
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| merlin1991 | just in case anyone wonders, maemo + harm ssu and sdk repost are 32gb in total | 17:32 |
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| kerio | merlin1991: fits perfectly in the n900! :D | 17:36 |
| kerio | did anyone try to boost the bluetooth antenna in some whay? | 17:36 |
| kerio | *way | 17:36 |
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| RST38h | Anyone knows when ARM9 has been introduced? | 17:52 |
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| ShadowJK | kerio; same antenna as wifi | 18:33 |
| kerio | ok then | 18:34 |
| kerio | did someone try to boost the wifi antenna in some way? | 18:34 |
| kerio | my bt headphones kinda suck if my phone is in my pants' pockets | 18:34 |
| kerio | they work fine if the phone is in a jacket's pocket | 18:34 |
| ShadowJK | mine seems to only jitter if wifi on n900 is used simultaneously | 18:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so what became of our nandtester? | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I had that effect with Samsung Omnia. turned out it was the "turn face down to mute2 function that sucked bigtime when phone got shaken by walking | 19:58 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: nah, it's the actual range here | 20:16 |
| kerio | in the back pocket the effect is much less disruptive | 20:16 |
| kerio | i suppose it's just crappy range on both parts | 20:16 |
| kerio | plus my body in the middle | 20:16 |
| kerio | but hey, fat shouldn't block radio :s | 20:17 |
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| jonwil | Just about to make a wiki entry with all this dbus information I have been collecting | 20:21 |
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| Raimu | DocScrutinizer05: Nandtester? vi__'s brainchild you mean? | 20:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I meant satru7 | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sambo7 | 21:06 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer51: how did you do that? :O | 21:08 |
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| jonwil | ok, I got all the dbus information that I can get at this point, will post it all to the wiki tommorow | 21:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: do what? | 21:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | vquery matokla | 21:20 |
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| sambo7 | unfortunately wasn't able to proceed on my nandtest issue...my cousin's internet is down,so wasn't able to download the images | 21:31 |
| sambo7 | but at least some progress with the device...when connected to usb,the led is constantly on yellow/orange...maybe I can continue tomorrow evening | 21:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | sambo7: nope, as constant amber means your battery is too depelted to flash | 22:35 |
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| Estel_ | Wow, 831 lines of productive discussions about porting, replacing closed bits, etc | 22:44 |
| Estel_ | It was pleasure to read | 22:44 |
| Estel_ | it's exactly the kind of things i *love* to see on IRC, when logged in. Funny, as actually, it seems that much more work is going under the hood, than in harmattan world | 22:45 |
| Estel_ | ...with great part of it being done from people that received CA awards, and despite fact, that 50 other devices were given to boost up harmattan development (as addition to 300 before) | 22:46 |
| Estel_ | well, Maemo is truly unique, no matter what | 22:46 |
| Estel_ | (Maemo as in "maemo and friends" i.e. including Mer) | 22:46 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, have You checked Pali's hostmode implementation? I know that kernel side is based on hostmode, but do You know, maybe, what was improved/fixed, or what can be potentialy worse than in hen? | 22:47 |
| Estel_ | Pali's work looks very neat, I just wonder if there was something fixed, above what is in HEN | 22:47 |
| Estel_ | or it's rather properly implementing it in kernel and user-space, but without any changes to merit of operation | 22:47 |
| Estel_ | (except for auto-guessing of speed) | 22:47 |
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| sambo7 | @Doc at least better than no reaction whatsoever when connecting to usb/power | 22:50 |
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| Estel_ | sambo7, how cold flashing went? | 22:53 |
| Estel_ | practically, you have two Hw revisions in circulation | 22:53 |
| Estel_ | 2101 and 2204 | 22:53 |
| Estel_ | the first one is most popular | 22:53 |
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| sambo7 | couldn't do it today...my cousins internet was down,so was unable to download images | 22:54 |
| Estel_ | so you should try those two only, other 2 are practically non-existant | 22:54 |
| Estel_ | ouh | 22:54 |
| Estel_ | I though You have them already | 22:54 |
| sambo7 | no,wanted to download them,but don't have a flat here(on vacation) | 22:54 |
| sambo7 | so wanted to do it at my cousins house... | 22:55 |
| sambo7 | hope to proceed tomorrow | 22:55 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, as for busybox and unix tools, I agree with the unix tools aprts, of course, but... | 22:55 |
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| Estel_ | it's kinda "You fault" - as ps aux works well in busybox-power, which is exactly full fledged mainstream busybox (ash) with unix tools :) | 22:55 |
| sambo7 | but rather in the evening hours...was damn hot today,tomorrow the same...so I'll spend the day on the lake | 22:56 |
| Estel_ | ...available on both normal working time, and all kind of recovery consoles. bash for working day is good, probably, when someone is used to it, but I feel sorry for anyone wanting to use it at boot time | 22:56 |
| Estel_ | sambo7, 31 C degrees here | 22:56 |
| Estel_ | no need to go to egypth | 22:57 |
| sambo7 | the same here...Masuria,poland | 22:57 |
| sambo7 | though I actually live in Germany | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~weather eddn | 22:58 |
| infobot | Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2012.07.27 1950 UTC; Dew Point: 57 F (14 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.83 in. Hg (1010 hPa); Relative Humidity: 42%; Temperature: 82 F (28 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the SE (130 degrees) at 9 MPH (8 KT) | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | well, Poznan, Poland ;) | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | I supposed You must be from Poland, when talking about high temperatures | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | don't know why, because other places are hot too | 22:58 |
| sambo7 | :-) | 22:58 |
| sambo7 | was born in Poland,moved to Germany as a kid | 22:59 |
| Estel_ | enjoying vacations, eh? what made you to try nandtest when outside home wih recovery tools? | 22:59 |
| Estel_ | with* | 22:59 |
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| Estel_ | aanyway, enjoy Your time here, masuria is great :) | 23:00 |
| sambo7 | went past Poznan when going na Mazury | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, we had >35°C today | 23:00 |
| sambo7 | my device was suddenly factory default'ed | 23:00 |
| sambo7 | didn't change anything | 23:01 |
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| Estel_ | sambo7, before test? | 23:01 |
| Estel_ | just out of nothing? | 23:01 |
| sambo7 | was looking for a way to restore may yappari.conf | 23:01 |
| sambo7 | before test | 23:01 |
| sambo7 | because registration doesn't work anymore | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~piglatin nand test | 23:02 |
| infobot | andnay esttay | 23:02 |
| sambo7 | but managed to register before reg process was changed | 23:02 |
| Estel_ | whatever yappari is, name suggest some closed, commercial, privacy abusing communicator | 23:02 |
| Estel_ | or social something | 23:02 |
| sambo7 | so with the old conf I could have continued to run yappari | 23:02 |
| sambo7 | a whatsapp clobne | 23:02 |
| sambo7 | clone | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | it was just wild guess, have I hit the 100 points?;p | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | haha | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | well, it's probably problematic for You, and everyone si free to use whatever wants... | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | But have you never considered using some FOSS alternative? | 23:03 |
| sambo7 | it's developed by a guy from South America...look for it in the maemo-forum | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | the one you mentioned (main, not yappari) is kinda last thing that I woudl trust | 23:04 |
| sambo7 | you get a 1000 | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | well, maybe facebook is lower on list | 23:04 |
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| Estel_ | yes, I know why name sound familliar - it spammed "latest activity" on TMO for some time | 23:04 |
| sambo7 | don't like/use facebook either | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | why not jabber (or it's current name, that I can't remember), or any else proper tool? | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~rot13 andnay esttay | 23:04 |
| infobot | naqanl rfggnl | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~piglatin naqanl rfggnl | 23:05 |
| infobot | aqanlnay rfggnlay | 23:05 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, learning troll's language to see through their plans? | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's what you did to your NJ900 | 23:05 |
| sambo7 | ??? | 23:05 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, don't be so pesimistic, inf act it's interesting, how easily CAL can be restored | 23:05 |
| Estel_ | I bet on cold flash solving it all | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ATM he can't restore even his battery | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's in emergency flat | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | btw kick in nandtest ass for not providing any warnings | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | battery can be charged externally, the thing is about if cold flash could pass without cal and restore it, which I hope for | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we'll see | 23:07 |
| sambo7 | am very exited if it'll work out...will see tomorrow,I hope | 23:07 |
| Estel_ | Well, I've just went through 831 lines of productive discussion in #maemo, then wanted to check #harmattan and saw who is writing hat there... Well, it looks kinda miserable, compared to #maemo. I udnerstand now, why many people that got N950 are absent there | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, if and only if you manage to carge your battery until tomorrow | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, any external charge/other phone using bl-5J should do it quickly | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | 30 minutes for having usable power level | 23:08 |
| sambo7 | don't have external charger here | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | 1 hour to be sure ;) | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: preaching to the choir? | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: see? ^^^ | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, rather diplomatically saying that #harmattan got flooded by rats shit content | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | see what? | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <sambo7> don't have external charger here | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | yea | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | 5V power supply and bunch of resistors should make it to 30% of state of charge :P | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: don't even think about flashing until you charged your battery | 23:10 |
| sambo7 | will be right back...am speaking to my girl;-) | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, playing mcgyver, he could always find some old, uneeded peice of electronic, like old analog phone or whatever, and use aprts to drop voltage from 5V Ps to less than 4.2 | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | yea, kinda extreme | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | I'm just theoretizing | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | but should be quite easy, and even fun and entertaining experience ;) | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like fixing IR-LED? ;-P | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | as soon as LiIon's won't start exploding, of course | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, yea, but that one was more extreme | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | but, after all, it's working, including Ir led! | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | I'm stubbornm son of a... so i couldn't left it like that, and opened it again, to solder the same led back again | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | fun fact - judging by visible light when looking via digital camera, it looks like making more clear beam, now | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | :P | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I outright refuse to tell guys who mess with nandtest how to rape their LiIon | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | (comparing to spare N900 with untouched IR) | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, free knowledge for all :) | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since I'm not the bastard from hell some think I am | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | explosives in basement for all | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | bubut seriously, I'm sure sambo7 won't try that, but if he would want to, he for sure will read *this* message that LiIon like to explode when threaten badly | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | or, at least, "vent with flame" | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | i.e. never ever charge it with anything higher than 4.2 V output, and never ever try to charge it to the end via homemade 5V to <4.2 V reduction, as it's still lackign saturation | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | so could be used to charge for 50-70% max, and personally, I would never charge it more than 50% | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | this way | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | /disclaimer end | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | well, wanna go extreme? at last resort, everything needed to charge battery is rice, bunch of small containers, soil (as in earth) and cable or any other well-conductive material | 23:17 |
| Estel_ | mix rice with soil and water, heat it a little, and clsoe in small container. After 2 days it will start to produce ~15 mA @ 0.5V. Some creative paralle and linear connections, and You can charge Your battery via "green" energy..,.:P | 23:18 |
| sambo7 | takes a little longer...women use a lot more words a day than men;-) | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | ok, enuf of joking, time for work (despite it being entirely true, power is produced via bacteria) | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | (pros - it can work for as long as year, without re-filling) | 23:19 |
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| sambo7 | won't be making up another mess after "nandtesting" my device...electronics is "a book with 7 seals"...->don't know anything about it | 23:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: go to next shop, buy either a charger or a BL-5J which you tell the dude to charge for you before you buy it | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 'used' BL-5J are like 10EUR in EURope | 23:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you even might get a used compatible Nokia featurephone for 10..20EUR | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | incl a BL-5J | 23:32 |
| sambo7 | don't know if I will get it here...I guess I'll spend my day tomorrow rather with enjoying the sun/lake at approx. 30-35° than searching for a charger | 23:32 |
| sambo7 | but in the early morning I could make a trip to town & city if I can find something | 23:33 |
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| RiD | What is this London 2012 thing everyone is talking about? | 23:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorta musical nobody knows what's the plot of it | 23:58 |
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