| Estel_ | I tried with other N900 screen& fglex, no sign of life. OTOH, ym screen&flex work on this 2nd N900 no problem, so it's not broken flex | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| FIQ | Estel_: http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950 ? | 00:00 |
| Estel_ | my uneducated guess - somehow, my screen flex cable socket could get screwed. no visible marks, though. | 00:00 |
| Estel_ | FIQ, thanks a lot! | 00:00 |
| FIQ | Estel_: second result on google :) | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, if data is lsot anyway when using oneclickflasher to pr1.2, there is basically no point in using update on-device, as You always need to use oneclickflasher afterwards? yep? | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | FIQ, I feel ashamed ;) | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | although I haven't though about using word "migrating", doesn't sound approriate | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | it's rather "how save sanity when jumping from N900 to N950, and don't get mad on Ui unusability" | 00:02 |
| Estel_ | and stock browser sucking hard | 00:02 |
| Estel_ | my soul cries again, that Mer hardware adaptation for N950 and N9 never got finished to really usable state | 00:03 |
| FIQ | Estel_: I googled "n950 meego wiki" | 00:03 |
| Estel_ | I would like to kick harm in ass, badly | 00:03 |
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| Estel_ | meego wasn't word that came to my mind too :P | 00:03 |
| Estel_ | usually I'm not involved in necrophilia | 00:03 |
| FIQ | fair enough | 00:03 |
| Estel_ | so again, thanks a lot | 00:03 |
| Estel_ | but honestly, I haven't searched almost at all, I just returned home from looong trip (work, not vacations :( ) | 00:04 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, BTW, once You asked me why want to use RPi HDMI for N900 outside ED | 00:04 |
| Estel_ | one possible reason - cause when using LXDE, external keyboard doesn't fuckin want to work at all except lowercase letters | 00:04 |
| Zx432 | DocScrutinizer05: Are you still here? | 00:04 |
| Estel_ | experienced it painfully | 00:04 |
| Estel_ | fuly* | 00:05 |
| FIQ | (23:04:54) (Estel_) one possible reason - cause when using LXDE, external keyboard doesn't fuckin want to work at all except lowercase letters | 00:05 |
| FIQ | did you try holding shift when typing? | 00:06 |
| Estel_ | FIQ, sure :P | 00:06 |
| Estel_ | it's about keymap | 00:06 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, sorry for pestering, but could You re-look @ this http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1150413&postcount=350 and post before? | 00:06 |
| FIQ | I know that when I used LXDE, the "sticky" mechanism usually seen in maemo didn't work at all, but holding shift worked fine | 00:06 |
| Zx432 | hm I broke my N900 | 00:06 |
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| * FIQ has an alive N900, but it's starting to break apart since a few months ago | 00:07 | |
| Estel_ | FIQ, the trhing is, that ext keyboard works in Ed only when using BT_HD scripts, that sucks for any other case, and are mutually exclusive with freemangordon's extkbd, which rox for any case EXCEPT Easy Debian | 00:07 |
| Zx432 | I have no graphics | 00:07 |
| FIQ | and now the SIM reading is starting to fail... (still very occasionally and just a few seconds though) | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | FIQ, once I had 8 N900';s in house | 00:07 |
| Zx432 | no letters numbers nothing | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | most are now in hands of family and relatives, some sold | 00:07 |
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| Zx432 | fun | 00:07 |
| FIQ | heh | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | Zx432, no, it's not broken | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | just no optfs | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | normal | 00:08 |
| FIQ | I wouldn't mind buying a new one really :P | 00:08 |
| Zx432 | how do I fix it? | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | FIQ, ocassionaly, I have some in very good condition, with foil on screen, and reinforced USB port (by me) - reinforced, not replaced/repaired - for 180 euro | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | all tested every possible way to ensure all components working, at least on point of selling them :P | 00:09 |
| FIQ | Estel_: good to know | 00:09 |
| Estel_ | If You need one, jusdt ping me, I can usually arrange one in about 2 weeks max | 00:09 |
| FIQ | heh | 00:09 |
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| Estel_ | and by arrange I don't mean "locate and steal" :P | 00:09 |
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| Estel_ | it's about buying in one of 3 nice shops with used electronic, in various location of my country | 00:10 |
| FIQ | well, I was going to find one in a swedish wannabe-ebay site when mine fails completely, but as that would probably be more expensive I'll remember that | 00:10 |
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| Estel_ | Well, reinob and megaltralniak seems to be happy, they have already bought one from me ;) | 00:10 |
| FIQ | heh | 00:10 |
| Estel_ | I can't recall english word for that - shop when people put their electronic and price for it, and shop,a fter selling take part of money | 00:11 |
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| Estel_ | I'm finding used N900's in various condition (choosing only best ones) in suchlocal, not web-enabled shop | 00:11 |
| FIQ | second hand? | 00:11 |
| FIQ | heh | 00:11 |
| Estel_ | yea, but second hand is about used, generally | 00:11 |
| Sicelo | w/in 27 | 00:12 |
| Estel_ | and this is where various people still own their things, they just "lend" shop to sell it | 00:12 |
| Sicelo | eew. sorry about my spam tonight | 00:12 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: confirmed, with that commic sunspider scores 6734ms, without it 6060ms. Seems there are more to achieve the impressing 8900ms, but that is the first one | 00:14 |
| freemangordon | *commit | 00:14 |
| freemangordon | zeq: "HEAD is now at accdf55... Bug 753158 - emit ALIASEDVAR ops for upvars (r=bhackett)" | 00:15 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/753158 was not found. | 00:15 |
| zeq | freemangordon: lower time is better | 00:15 |
| freemangordon | i know | 00:16 |
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| zeq | sorry misread | 00:16 |
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| freemangordon | :) | 00:16 |
| zeq | (got a migraine in my defense) | 00:16 |
| freemangordon | np | 00:16 |
| zeq | I'll mention we were looking for recent regressions in sunspider performance and use your numbers. | 00:17 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, I think You could miss it, could You, at spare moment, re-look at http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1150413&postcount=350 and post before? | 00:17 |
| Estel_ | I may be wrong, but it looks like not-too-much-work, so I dare to pester You :P | 00:18 |
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| freemangordon | Estel_: sorry, I really don;t have tim (and will) to look at that issue now, too much project, too little time :( | 00:24 |
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| zeq | freemangordon: I've put manually stripped debs up now. | 00:26 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: debs? | 00:27 |
| freemangordon | how did you do that? | 00:28 |
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| zeq | I manully stripped the libs with "strip --strip-unneeded" | 00:28 |
| freemangordon | I mean how do you package them | 00:29 |
| freemangordon | s/do/did/ | 00:29 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: I mean how did you package them | 00:29 |
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| freemangordon | anyway, not important, thanks | 00:30 |
| freemangordon | zeq: GF is here, gtg ;) | 00:30 |
| freemangordon | night | 00:30 |
| zeq | night freemangordon :) | 00:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Zx432: that's a sympthom of flashing eMMC without following it with flashing rootfs | 00:34 |
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| Zx432 | oh ok | 00:35 |
| Zx432 | Well it is still chrashing. | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Zx432: I told you you need to flash COMBINED *again* after flashing VANILLA | 00:35 |
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| Zx432 | done | 00:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer51, pong? | 00:49 |
| Zx432 | seems to be fixed | 00:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: I was about to ask you if you could get me google glass, but it seems it's not even available to you (as an US citicen and developer) | 00:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, I'm getting it for me first, either way. :P | 00:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | compromise? you keep the glass brick with engraved serial number, I take the goggles? | 00:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 00:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: actually I made up my mind to apply at google for EE in glass labs | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nice | 00:55 |
| Zx432 | it is working for at least 15 min now | 00:56 |
| Zx432 | This is a new record. | 00:56 |
| Zx432 | DocScrutinizer? | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hm? | 00:57 |
| Zx432 | one thing | 00:57 |
| Zx432 | it doesn't detect my sim | 00:58 |
| Zx432 | should I upgrade? | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should use latest image for combined. I thought you did though | 00:58 |
| Zx432 | seems like I made another mistake | 01:00 |
| Zx432 | So upgrade? | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | upgrade to what? | 01:00 |
| Zx432 | maemo | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I don't get it | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what do you plan to do exactly? | 01:01 |
| Zx432 | the app manager is suggesting upgrade 1.2009.44-1 | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ummm | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hell, that sounds strange | 01:02 |
| Zx432 | i have 1.2009.42.-11 | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, you might have 1.3, yes | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while recent is 1.3.1 | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only available via upgrade in HAM, not by flashing | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unrelated to SIM though :-/ | 01:03 |
| Zx432 | it works but my sim isn't detected... | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | did you say you had US version before? | 01:03 |
| Zx432 | no | 01:04 |
| Zx432 | eu | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Zx432: could you pastebin the full transscript of your flashing session of Vanilla and combined? | 01:05 |
| Zx432 | I can paste all done in terminal today | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not here! | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pastebin | 01:06 |
| Zx432 | i know :) would get instabanned | 01:08 |
| ZogG | someone highlighted me here and i can't see who =) | 01:10 |
| Zx432 | http://pastebin.com/uZS1Rkqd | 01:10 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, np, i understand it. Damn, it's pity that I don't understand mechanics of possible fix you've mentioned, as LXDe rox when device connected to keyboard and mouse (and big screen) | 01:15 |
| Estel_ | lack of working external keyboard basically kills the purpose (need to run everything Ed from Maemo, without LXDE) | 01:15 |
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| Vibe | hi | 01:20 |
| Vibe | configure:3460: gcc conftest.c >&5 | 01:20 |
| Vibe | gcc: error trying to exec 'as': execvp: No such file or directory | 01:20 |
| Vibe | ideas? | 01:20 |
| Vibe | installed gcc-4.6 but needed to mv gcc-4.6 gcc | 01:21 |
| Zx432 | DocScrutinizer05 have you managed to check the pastebin? | 01:22 |
| Vibe | binutils2.22 installed | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still busy doing that | 01:22 |
| Zx432 | ok | 01:22 |
| Vibe | hmmm, trying to compile latest mosh on fremantle | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Zx432: you used obsolete COMBINED | 01:28 |
| Zx432 | crap | 01:28 |
| Zx432 | sorry | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please download RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | compare: root@kiborg-EP35C-DS3R:/home/kiborg/n900# ./maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2/flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R | 01:29 |
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| Zx432 | seems to be vorking now | 01:43 |
| Zx432 | *working | 01:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I hope so | 01:45 |
| Zx432 | now I need to update and get the old data back | 01:46 |
| Zx432 | Thank you so much for all the help! | 01:46 |
| Zx432 | I owe you a beer! | 01:46 |
| Vibe | missed basic binutils, but still problems | 01:47 |
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| Vibe | needed binutils package, binutils2.22 didn't work | 02:01 |
| Vibe | now getting -> configure:3461: gcc conftest.c >&5 | 02:02 |
| Vibe | ld: this linker was not configured to use sysroots | 02:02 |
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| Zx432 | OK I am off good night. | 02:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Vibe: what the heck are you trying to accomplish? | 02:24 |
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| Vibe | hi DocScrutinizer05 | 02:25 |
| Vibe | trying to compile mosh on n900 | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *ON* n900? :-o | 02:25 |
| Vibe | yes and to n900 | 02:25 |
| Vibe | compiled fine on raspberry pi | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | common notion is N900 rootfs is way too small to hold all needed tools and libs for that | 02:26 |
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| Vibe | ohh, ok | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are some freaks actually compiling stuff on N900, but they all had a hard time getting tools and libs installed | 02:27 |
| Vibe | theres old version for maemo -> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83570&page=2 | 02:27 |
| Vibe | trying to get latest 1.2.2 version working on n900 | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually you get stuff installed in a chroot on /home | 02:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | since optification will give you lots and lots of headaches at compile time | 02:31 |
| Vibe | k | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Vibe: you're aware the 'normal' way is to build stuff in scratchbox on PC? | 02:33 |
| Vibe | oh, nope | 02:33 |
| Vibe | never done that :p | 02:33 |
| Vibe | tried to use bin from rpi but didn't work cos different lib versions | 02:34 |
| Vibe | but ok I will look into scratchbox | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org | 02:35 |
| x29a | if the n900 battery cant even boot the rescuesystem for the charger script, is my only option to find someone with an n900 that can charge my battery? | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err yep | 02:35 |
| Vibe | maemo.org seems to be down.. | 02:36 |
| x29a | Vibe: works for me | 02:36 |
| Vibe | now it works :p | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/intro/developer_overview/ | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>Developing applications for Maemo is done with the Maemo SDK. << | 02:38 |
| Vibe | ok | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/development/ | 02:40 |
| x29a | docScrutinizer: http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showpost.php?p=1196015&postcount=7 is this true? the low battery loop will eventually get enough juice in it to power up? | 02:40 |
| Vibe | its links to Maemo 4.1 Diablo | 02:40 |
| Vibe | does it work with fremantle? | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | x29a: err, wut? | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Vibe: nope, the top link to SDK is a page with mameo5 SDK listed as latest | 02:41 |
| x29a | that dude claims that when you have your fon sit in the low battery reboot loop for a couple of hours, it will eventually somehow charge enough for it to fully boot up | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bullshit | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a) there's no such loop | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | b) if there actually is (due to borked battery or whatever) it won't magically fix after a few hours | 02:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | please correct that statement on tmo! | 02:43 |
| x29a | DocScrutinizer05: not magically. it might be, that within the bootup process, the charging actually works. which i didnt believe. and there is definately a loop as the device will power down on low battery. doesnt have to be borked | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nonsense | 02:43 |
| x29a | still keeping the open mind, arentya? | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are like 4 incorrect assumptions in one senstence | 02:44 |
| Vibe | DocScrutinizer05: ok, thx! I will look at that later, now to sleep | 02:45 |
| x29a | yep, once again not beeing helpful, if you dont plan on sharing your (obviously way to big) knowledge, why not hold back in the first place? | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if battery is *completely* flat, the sequence is: emergency charge via hardware kicks in (you can tell by steady amber LED). Eventually boot threshold gets reached and cpu loads NOLO,. NOLO in turn will load linux and linux will start bme which continues software supervided charging (you can tell from amber flashing LED) | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise, fsckoff if you can't wait until I finish typing | 02:47 |
| beford | ~flashing | 02:47 |
| infobot | maemo-flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not obliged to help you out | 02:47 |
| x29a | DocScrutinizer05: device is hooked up to external PSU, tries to boot, doesnt have enough battery power to get into OS, will be turned off (nowhere did i assume its a feature, not just a reaction from an empty battery), charger will try to boot the device back up, same again, some people call that a loop. my assumption was, that this will even worsen the situation, therefore i was mildly confused by that guys statement | 02:47 |
| x29a | DocScrutinizer05: no, of course you are not, but you might just as well be nice to people and not be the grumpy dude you are all along | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dudes like you leave me grumpy | 02:48 |
| x29a | actio -> reactio | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pissing my leg for no obvious reason. TNXKBY | 02:48 |
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| x29a | DocScrutinizer05: using strong language for no obvious reason? violating logic for no obvious reason? bitching about feedback for no obvious reason? i just hope that there are lots of missunderstandings due to translation and transcription involved and you actually get along with people in real life | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I get along with ignoring you, sir | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while you ponder who's ignoring logic here | 02:53 |
| x29a | a) there's no such loop b) if there actually is | 02:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | oh great! your logic consists of breaking statements into pieces | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meaningles pieces | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | congrats | 02:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a ~10s gap between hw emergency charging, during NOLO->linux->bme, until bme starts sw supervised charging. A terribly broken battery will cause a loop as voltage drops too much during that timespan. As well as a broken or deleted bme (or linux at large) will obviously extend that period infinitely until battery depletes to system sgutdown. None of these problems gets magically fixed after a few hours of brainless looping | 02:59 |
| x29a | thanks for jumping over your shadow and actually providing background info | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's neither any charger booting any system, nor is there a deliberately implemented loop of any kind | 03:00 |
| x29a | i dont think the batt is broken, just really empty (hasnt been charged for a couple of months), so i might be lucky with the emergency charging? | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~flatbatrecover | 03:01 |
| infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover | 03:01 |
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| x29a | as stated before, i didnt intend to imply that the loop was a feature | 03:01 |
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| jacekowski | i'm just in process of recovering phone left off for 4 months | 03:16 |
| jacekowski | and it's not recovering | 03:16 |
| jacekowski | it looks like battery is proper fucked this time | 03:16 |
| x29a | i got mine working =) | 03:19 |
| x29a | sry for your loss though | 03:19 |
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| jacekowski | it's a company blackberry and i only use it when i go abroad | 03:21 |
| jacekowski | so it's only turned on once every 2-4months for week | 03:21 |
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| x29a | ah, not an n900 | 03:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | LiIon deep discharge is terminal by definition (defined in protective circuit) | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Warning paper for LiIon says "never try to charge a cell that has less than $2.5V cell voltage". Protective circuit in battery enforces that | 03:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: ^^^ | 03:43 |
| FIQ|n900 | at least if you want a good healthy life | 03:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the prot chip not only stops discharge at $3.0V, it also cuts charging on $2.5V<Vbat>$4.5V | 03:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | from Vbat>$4,5V you recover by discharging. You don't recover from Vbat<$2.5V | 03:46 |
| jpinx | DocScrutinizer05: I got an interesting/annoying recharge incident when the Standard Nokia wall-charger failed to recharge a n900 overnight. I wondered if the mains vltage might be squiffy (in in SEAsia) | 03:48 |
| jpinx | it recharged happily in the next village... ;) | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are known incidents of bme or some of the related systems freaking out and thus not charging properly | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sometimes system doesn't detect plugged in charger (to some extent) | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then it won't charge | 03:50 |
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| jpinx | yea - something like that - the light comes on but there's nobody home.... | 03:51 |
| FIQ|n900 | speaking of n900 charging, charging with powerkernel always fail with a phone shut off for some reason | 03:51 |
| FIQ|n900 | (with the normal, it turns on and start charging) | 03:51 |
| FIQ|n900 | never got the idea of why it did that | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bq27200.ko | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bme can't open bq27200 via I2C device when the bq27200.ko got modprobed. It segfaults, gets restarted by dsme, until dsme says screwit and reboots | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or it's something completely different ;-) | 03:55 |
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| jacekowski | that's correct | 04:01 |
| jacekowski | device claimed in kernel can't be touched from userland | 04:01 |
| luke-jr | could possibly setup a boot script to unbind it fwiw | 04:01 |
| jonwil | Thats why the BME replacement is important :) | 04:04 |
| jonwil | will end all these problems for good | 04:04 |
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| jpinx | I've created quite a lot of desktop shortcuts on the n900 and I'd like to copy them (or at least the urls) over to my laptop. Where are they in the n900? | 04:20 |
| jpinx | I'm ssh'd into the n900 as root over usb | 04:22 |
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| x29a | jpinx: have you checked /usr/share/applications/hildon ? | 04:27 |
| x29a | http://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format | 04:28 |
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| jpinx | x29a: thanks.. :) | 04:30 |
| jpinx | x29a: that appears to be applications, there is no list of urls saved as shortcuts | 04:36 |
| nox- | http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/07/new-programming-jargon.html | 04:40 |
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| beford | ~flashing | 06:26 |
| infobot | somebody said maemo-flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 06:26 |
| jonwil | wow, more of this stuff is documented than I thought | 06:29 |
| jonwil | icd2-osso-ic-dev and osso-wlan-dev are very helpful :) | 06:29 |
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| jonwil | pali: ping | 10:38 |
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| Pali | jonwil, pong | 10:38 |
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| jonwil | no response from any of the various Nokia/Ex-Nokia addresses you emailed I take it? | 10:39 |
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| Pali | jonwil, bme dev wrote me that when he will be in work he ask about adcin0 temperature | 10:49 |
| Pali | and from opensource request no answer.... | 10:50 |
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| jonwil | ok | 10:52 |
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| jonwil | you asked opensource guy about the prolog stuff right? | 10:54 |
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| Pali | jonwil, yes | 10:57 |
| Pali | but I wrote that I think I'm on black/spam list | 10:58 |
| jonwil | ok | 10:58 |
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| Pali | it will be really usefull if somebody other send mail too... | 10:58 |
| Pali | (mail from different FROM) | 10:58 |
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| jonwil | I take it you had no luck getting the browser guys to share the browser UI code? | 11:17 |
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| Pali | jonwil, problem is that he cannot publish browser ui code without nokia... | 11:30 |
| jonwil | hmmm yeah :( | 11:30 |
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| Pali | but browser-ui code does not have IPR stuff... | 11:34 |
| jonwil | IPR? | 11:34 |
| Pali | ~ipr | 11:34 |
| Pali | infobot, ping | 11:34 |
| infobot | ~pong | 11:34 |
| Pali | infobot, ipr | 11:35 |
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| Pali | infobot, IPR is Intellectual Property Rights | 11:35 |
| infobot | Pali: okay | 11:35 |
| jonwil | you mean that browser-ui is unencumbered by 3rd party IP nokia doesn't own the rights to | 11:35 |
| jonwil | ? | 11:35 |
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| Pali | no, browser ui is IP free code | 11:36 |
| zeq | freemangordon: good, but strange news. qt4-x11 builds fine now with the more agressive flags I used to build fennec!?! Interestingly, QML seems to be even faster. | 11:40 |
| zeq | with linaro-4.7 I mean | 11:43 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: hmm, maybe we can think of some benchmarking | 11:55 |
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| zeq | freemangordon: I don't know if you installed any of the packages I made yesterday, but I've rebuilt them after I realised the debhelper utilities I was using were the debian-etch devkit versions, and it wasn't apparently correctly creating/storing the libarary dependencies in the .deb. | 12:01 |
| * zeq curses | 12:01 | |
| zeq | that hasn't solved it :S | 12:01 |
| freemangordon | I didn't use any .deb | 12:02 |
| zeq | freemangordon: can you help? What I said above was true, but... I noticed about the devkit deb tools after I tried to build a package and it said dh_clean couldn't handle above version 5. | 12:03 |
| zeq | So I removed the devkit from the list and tried again with the version installed in scratchbox. | 12:04 |
| zeq | That solved that problem, but introduced another. | 12:04 |
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| zeq | Now I can't build qt4-x11 against libstdc++ because I get an error from dpkg-shlibdeps about no dependency information: | 12:06 |
| * zeq is rebuilding qt4-x11 to get the exact error message | 12:08 | |
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| StyXman_ | zeq: the goal is to update the build system? | 12:10 |
| zeq | StyXman_: As I said ^^ my scratchbox was using debian-etch devkit, but that didn't handle a package I tried to build (debhelper too old) | 12:12 |
| zeq | StyXman_: as I have the SDK versions installed, I tried removing the devkit, and using the installed debian versions of the build tools. | 12:13 |
| zeq | s/debian/maemo/ | 12:13 |
| infobot | zeq meant: StyXman_: as I have the SDK versions installed, I tried removing the devkit, and using the installed maemo versions of the build tools. | 12:13 |
| StyXman_ | ah, ok | 12:14 |
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| StyXman_ | they're both old, anyways | 12:14 |
| StyXman_ | (AFAIK) | 12:14 |
| zeq | well, that solved the immediate problem, but introduced a new one | 12:15 |
| zeq | if it doesn't hurry up and finish I might run out of time (my sister is getting married this afternoon!) | 12:19 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: congrats | 12:23 |
| freemangordon | (or whatever you say in your place :) ) | 12:23 |
| zeq | freemangordon: thanks! :D | 12:24 |
| zeq | dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 (used by debian/libqt4-core/usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4.7.4). | 12:30 |
| zeq | dh_shlibdeps: command returned error code 512 | 12:30 |
| zeq | make: *** [binary-predeb-IMPL/libqt4-core] Error 1 | 12:30 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: did you install -devel package? | 12:41 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: actually both libstdc++.deb and libstdc++-devel.deb? | 12:42 |
| StyXman_ | freemangordon: I thinbk it wouldn't compile otherwise | 12:43 |
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| zeq | freemangordon: I'm pretty sure I did :S | 12:51 |
| zeq | this worked with the devkit | 12:52 |
| zeq | yes it is installed | 12:57 |
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| zeq | okay, still just about here. What provides shlib dependencies? is it something that should be set in the debain/rules for gcc? | 13:12 |
| jonwil | if only the cellular services daemon was as well documented as the internet connectivity daemon | 13:13 |
| zeq | I guess I need to add a call to dpkg-shlibdeps into the sb-toolchain system | 13:17 |
| zeq | right, I'm off now, see you tommorow guys! | 13:20 |
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| zeq | got a little more time, gf taking a while with her hair :P | 13:53 |
| zeq | ./cc/gcc-4.7-linaro/work/gcc-4.7/debian/libstdc++6/DEBIAN/shlibs | 13:57 |
| zeq | ^ so it should have shlibs...? | 13:57 |
| zeq | (dependencies) | 13:57 |
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| zeq | the rules file includes: dh_makeshlibs -plibstdc++6 -V 'libstdc++6 (>= $(SB_VER))' | 14:00 |
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| Pali | ping freemangordon | 14:24 |
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| zeq1 | I think I've worked it out. dpkg-makeshlibs is failing when it finds the gdb.py file but that's apparently not fatal. | 14:46 |
| zeq1 | it should only be in the dbg deb anyway. | 14:46 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: pong | 15:00 |
| Pali | freemangordon, kp51 is in -devel but has bug which cause rmmod bq2415x_charger to reboot device | 15:01 |
| Pali | I will try to fix it and push new version | 15:01 |
| freemangordon | ok :). after all a victory over autobuilder worths several reboots :D | 15:02 |
| Pali | driver is by default blacklisted | 15:02 |
| Pali | so I found it after disabled new usb host mode | 15:02 |
| Pali | also what about creating new project on gitorious "bme-rx51-replacement" and push here all code about bme & hostmode? | 15:03 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: feel free to create it, add me as an developer here. I will push libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme later on | 15:07 |
| Pali | ok | 15:07 |
| freemangordon | s/here/there/ | 15:07 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: Pali: feel free to create it, add me as an developer there. I will push libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme later on | 15:07 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: or you can push it too, all the code is in my repo | 15:08 |
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| kerio | whew, i'm on the good side of the split | 15:09 |
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| Jaffa | Afternoon, all | 17:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Welcome back, Jaffa. | 17:49 |
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| teotwaki | sup GeneralAntilles & Jaffa | 17:51 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Weirdness with my machine running etherpad seem to have been resolved. | 18:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | So I see. | 18:08 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: But I'm swamped at work :-( | 18:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I got it. | 18:12 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Ta | 18:12 |
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| teotwaki | Jaffa: you end up having issues as well? | 18:23 |
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| Jaffa | teotwaki: The process was running amok, but lots of other processes on the machine were too (other Java processes, Ruby, ...) | 18:26 |
| Jaffa | teotwaki: Upgrading some things, playing with some config files and a reboot seem to have helped | 18:27 |
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| teotwaki | Jaffa: how much are you paying for your server? | 18:28 |
| teotwaki | and how big is it? | 18:28 |
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| Jaffa | teotwaki: It's 72gbp per month (split 9 ways). AMD Athlon II X2 240e (2 cores at 2.8GHz), 2GiB RAM, 2 x 500GB 7.2kRPM SATA discs | 18:31 |
| Jaffa | 78, sorry | 18:32 |
| teotwaki | cool :) | 18:32 |
| teotwaki | I got myself a little one from kimsufi | 18:32 |
| teotwaki | dual core atom CPU (so not very gutsy or anything), 2GB RAM, 1TB HDD (no idea of disk speed), unlimited 100Mbit/s up/down link. | 18:33 |
| teotwaki | 18euro/month | 18:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, when is it going to attempt to publish next? | 18:33 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: On the hour | 18:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, if I have one LeadIn with ... I'm OK, though, right? | 18:46 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Correct. Or an incorrect section | 18:46 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Or an invalid username | 18:46 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: So I tend to do Section=frontx to temporarily disable publishing | 18:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, I'm going to go with section=jaffa4tsg | 18:47 |
| Jaffa | :) | 18:47 |
| kerio | teotwaki: wait, what | 18:49 |
| kerio | :Q_______ | 18:49 |
| kerio | teotwaki: so it's basically like a really good seedbox | 18:51 |
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| teotwaki | kerio: well, I use it for that as well | 18:55 |
| kerio | i want one | 18:55 |
| kerio | :c | 18:55 |
| kerio | but the UK scares me | 18:55 |
| teotwaki | It's in France. | 18:55 |
| teotwaki | http://www.kimsufi.com/fr/ | 18:55 |
| kerio | hadopi | 18:55 |
| kerio | :C | 18:56 |
| teotwaki | not a problem | 18:56 |
| teotwaki | Hadopi states that the 3 strikes law only applies to internet connections | 18:56 |
| teotwaki | and a server does not qualify. | 18:56 |
| kerio | oh, neat | 18:56 |
| kerio | :D | 18:56 |
| teotwaki | I'm in France. | 18:56 |
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| teotwaki | And I've downloaded some 40Gigs in a week or so. | 18:56 |
| teotwaki | Seeded nearly 1TB. | 18:56 |
| teotwaki | Only Linux distributions, obviously... All the Debian CDs and DVDs... | 18:57 |
| teotwaki | RX bytes:49302457076 (47.2 GiB) TX bytes:89992191135 (85.1 GiB) | 18:58 |
| teotwaki | Sorry, 100GB. | 18:58 |
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| ShadowX | Has anyone compiled cryptopp on Maemo? | 19:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | Cryptoloop? | 19:12 |
| ShadowX | crypto++ | 19:12 |
| ShadowX | http://www.cryptopp.com/ | 19:12 |
| ShadowX | ^ | 19:12 |
| teotwaki | ShadowX: I remember doing so a very long time ago | 19:13 |
| teotwaki | ShadowX: please note that even on an i5, if you use an old gcc version, the linking process can take in excess of 40 minutes. | 19:13 |
| ShadowX | Got the package anywhere ? | 19:13 |
| teotwaki | nope, just compiled from source, probably flashed the phone on which I did it also | 19:13 |
| ShadowX | ye ye ...i was compiling it on my n900 :D think how much time it took :D | 19:13 |
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| ShadowX | and in the end it failed :P | 19:13 |
| teotwaki | it did? | 19:13 |
| teotwaki | why? | 19:14 |
| ShadowX | mm sec, i'll pastebin it | 19:14 |
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| teotwaki | (I have to compile cryptopp nearly twice a day on debian sarge...) | 19:14 |
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| ShadowX | http://pastebin.ca/2174081 | 19:15 |
| teotwaki | haha | 19:15 |
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| teotwaki | yeah, you're stuffed. | 19:15 |
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| ShadowX | :D | 19:16 |
| teotwaki | Try this patch to the GNUMakefile | 19:17 |
| teotwaki | https://trac.macports.org/changeset/70964 | 19:17 |
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| ShadowX | nope :S | 19:25 |
| ShadowX | compile fails again :/ | 19:25 |
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| Pali | kernel-power v51 (r1) is now in extras-devel, see: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85665 | 19:27 |
| freemangordon | good | 19:27 |
| ShadowX | cool :))) | 19:28 |
| kerio | good indeed! | 19:28 |
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| ShadowX | btw is there anyway to make it possible to multitask on incomming calls ? | 19:30 |
| ShadowX | on outgoing calls you can switch between apps , on incomming - not :( | 19:30 |
| freemangordon | shortcutd? ctrl-backspace? | 19:30 |
| kerio | you mean while it's ringing? | 19:30 |
| ShadowX | kerio, yes. | 19:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I think it's ready to go if you want to manually push it. | 19:31 |
| kerio | ShadowX: just hang up | 19:31 |
| kerio | people suck, anyway | 19:31 |
| ShadowX | without hanging up :D | 19:31 |
| ShadowX | +1 :D | 19:31 |
| Venemo_N9 | lol | 19:31 |
| ShadowX | freemangordon, crtl+backspace don't work while the incomming call is on 'Ringing' phase. | 19:32 |
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| freemangordon | hmm, and what about shortcutd? could be something in hildon-desktop though, done by design | 19:33 |
| ShadowX | I think the difference is that incomming call window is notification-like ,not separate window .... | 19:34 |
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| kerio | defullscreen it | 19:35 |
| kerio | :) | 19:35 |
| kerio | wmctrl -b toggle,fullscreen | 19:35 |
| ShadowX | mmm....i gatta try this :) | 19:37 |
| ShadowX | wmctrl -b toggle,fullscreen <pid> ? or ? | 19:37 |
| kerio | wmctrl -r :ACTIVE: -b toggle,fullscreen | 19:38 |
| kerio | :ACTIVE: is a special window name that wmctrl uses to refer to the current window | 19:38 |
| ShadowX | oh :D cool.... this will go into my dbus-scripts | 19:38 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Ta | 19:38 |
| ShadowX | 10q :) | 19:38 |
| kerio | ShadowX: i have that executed by shortcutd on long press | 19:39 |
| kerio | it's neat | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: "Unknown user: [x-fade]" ;-) | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: No dash. | 19:39 |
| ShadowX | ^^ even better idea, so I can use it everywhere :) | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Boo | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I always forget. | 19:39 |
| kerio | ShadowX: some applications get confused though | 19:39 |
| kerio | so you end up with menu bar and no toolbar and/or viceversa | 19:40 |
| kerio | which is useful, for microB | 19:40 |
| ShadowX | i see. Okay. Thanks a lot, this is quite useful ! | 19:40 |
| ShadowX | Witch brings me back to my cryptopp problem :/ | 19:40 |
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| strohalm | my display get broken, have anyone an idea where i can get a working one (in central europe)? | 19:49 |
| Estel_ | strohalm, ebay, your local wanna-be-ebay site, or some repair center? | 19:52 |
| * jonwil is in the process of pulling together all known information about the various dbus things the N900 sends with the plan to create a wiki page collating all the information | 19:52 | |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, or anyone knowledgeable enough about N900 hardware parts - could You, please, tell me what do you know abot screen's flat cable socket (this one in *motherboard* side, not plug)? | 19:52 |
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| Estel_ | I suspect, that my device might "die" totally, due to such socket being broken, but from looking, it doesn't look damaged at all | 19:53 |
| strohalm | okay when no special source exist i give ebay another try. the last time there where only stuff to be delivered with hongkong post | 19:53 |
| Estel_ | I remember DocScrutinizer writing about some lame things in flat cable *plug* - i.e. flat cable squeezed there with solder joints... | 19:53 |
| Estel_ | but, is there any thing that could get "invisibly" desoldered in flat cable socket on motherboard? | 19:54 |
| Estel_ | problem definitely started after I've soldered broken connection (external one) on IR diode. Both sides of this diode are plates, connected to motherboard equivalents | 19:54 |
| Estel_ | one of them was broken, thus no IR working. | 19:54 |
| Estel_ | I've soldered this plate to whole again, and IR worked, as rest of device, but it started to show strange behavior immediately after fix | 19:55 |
| Estel_ | I'm almsot sure I haven't destroyed anything, I was extra careful, but I was repairing it with 100W soldering iron without thermal regulation (trying to be blazing fast with touching). Nothing looked lie heated too much, but... | 19:55 |
| Estel_ | device acted strangely, and next day just refused to show any sign of life. Only one situation, when I know N900 (without obviously being damaged by truck) acts like that, is when no flat cable is connected. I've filtered out possibility of broken flat cable or anything in screen slide module | 19:56 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, I'm trying to fix, at least in "ugly" way, this prblem with lxde and keyboard. Could You, please, tell me, why such dramatic changes to directories holding keyboard profiles, are needed for xkbd? | 20:11 |
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| Estel_ | I mean, that xkbd does backup, and then, replaces them | 20:11 |
| Estel_ | if I try to use exact same files inside debian chroot (copied to /.debian/normal_poath_including_rx-51), N900's hardware keyboard doesn't workj properly (only lowercase letters), but external keyboard start to work, reportedly | 20:12 |
| Estel_ | of course I could prepare scripts that backup and replace files on demand, but I'm searching for more conveinent way | 20:13 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: because that is how I do a backup | 20:13 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, what exactly xkbd sets up in Hildon in order to use proper keyboard layout from definition files? Couldn't similar thing be done in xephyr? | 20:14 |
| Estel_ | hm | 20:14 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: nothing, all is setup through HAL | 20:14 |
| Estel_ | I tried to investigate sources line by line, and I can't get how qole's bt hd scripts achieve that via setxkbmap without breaking other things, and how to replicate it in extkbd | 20:15 |
| Estel_ | it's irrational, that those packages are exclusive, I mean that I can't find any reason why merging them into one program shouldn't work - yet, I can't find a way to preserve (better) extkbd with only adding part of bt hd scripts, that control lxde behavior | 20:16 |
| Estel_ | any pointers? You seemed to have idea, just lack of time and will | 20:16 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: forget about setxkbmap | 20:19 |
| freemangordon | use HAL .fdi script, lemme try to find an example | 20:19 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: BTW could you explain the problem once again, so I am in line | 20:21 |
| Pali | Estel_, can you ask qgil about osso-backup and powertop? | 20:21 |
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| kerio | hm, what are levels 5 to 8 in the xkb map for languages like russian? | 20:22 |
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| Estel_ | Pali, I can't, as I'm not Councilor anymore. Ask current council, ok? sorry. | 20:23 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, problem is that, with extkbd, external keyboard works well in Maemo, but when inside Easy Debian's LXDE (or any desktop enviromnent, using xephyr), only lowercase letters work on external keyboard | 20:23 |
| Estel_ | no numbers, no special characters, no uppercase letters | 20:23 |
| Pali | Estel_, but qgil wrote that he inform you... | 20:24 |
| Estel_ | Pali, I haven't had any message from qgil about that. Maybe he mean that he informs Council via council@maemo.org mail, but I don't have access to it anymore | 20:24 |
| Pali | ok | 20:24 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, OTOH, qole's bt-hd scripts package makes external keyboard working on any case in easy debian's LXDE, but it sucks in any other case, compared to extkbd and extmou :) | 20:25 |
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| Estel_ | Pali, could You quote what qgil exactly wrote and where, about informing me? | 20:25 |
| Estel_ | and when, it's most important question | 20:25 |
| Estel_ | I'll gladly help to settle this missunderstanding | 20:26 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: aah, ok. lemme check my ED with extkbd | 20:26 |
| Estel_ | (just re-checked my mailbox and Pm box) | 20:26 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, sure | 20:26 |
| Estel_ | thanks a lot for looking into this | 20:26 |
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| Pali | ok, I will write email to qgil | 20:27 |
| Estel_ | Pali, if You remember when and what he exactly said, I can try to help too :) | 20:27 |
| Estel_ | was it after Council's circus, or before? | 20:28 |
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| Estel_ | dafuq? My new 32 microSd SanDisk class 4 reports full disk immediately (before starting to copy files, actually), when I try to copy 27Gb into it (it reports 29,7 free), but smaller files go there without problem? WTFi, could someone sell me fake card with lower capacity? | 20:30 |
| beford | happens all the time | 20:31 |
| kerio | space reserved for the superuser? \_o_/ | 20:31 |
| kerio | beford: the system wouldn't *know* about it | 20:31 |
| ShadowJK | vfat formatted cards have limit of 128 files in the root directory of the card, and 2 gig limit per file | 20:31 |
| beford | yea, thats right, it would just corrupt the data or something | 20:31 |
| kerio | it was ENOSPACE, not EIO | 20:32 |
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| beford | I think its <4gb, but i could be wrong | 20:32 |
| ShadowJK | 2g | 20:32 |
| kerio | it's 2GiB | 20:32 |
| kerio | signed arithmetic, ho! | 20:32 |
| freemangordon | 4g is for fat32 iirc | 20:32 |
| beford | i win | 20:32 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, thanks, of course it's 4Gb file limit, I'm an idiot (someone told me that already, eh?) ;) | 20:33 |
| beford | :P | 20:33 |
| Estel_ | (it's fat32 currently) | 20:33 |
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| Estel_ | BTw, ShadowJK, I wanted to send You log from charging You've requested, but I haven't managed to do it before my N900 died | 20:33 |
| Estel_ | (it seems that it died due to things unrelated to charging with 1250) | 20:34 |
| kerio | hm, apparently it's UINT32_MAX bytes | 20:35 |
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| kerio | so 4GiB - 1B | 20:35 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, tried to disassemble N950 already? | 20:36 |
| freemangordon | no :D | 20:40 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: setxkbmap bg -print | xkbcomp - :1 does the job somehow | 20:40 |
| freemangordon | bg is for Bulgarion, replace it accordingly | 20:40 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, I try to figure this screw's type, it isn't torx apparently. Eh, time to download datasheets | 20:40 |
| Estel_ | woooot? | 20:40 |
| Estel_ | wait wait, setxkbmap from Maemo or inside chroot? | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | Maemo | 20:41 |
| Estel_ | 0_o I knew what I do trying to pester You yesterday, instead of spending day trying to achieve this on my own :P | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | :1 is xephir or whatever X server is called | 20:42 |
| freemangordon | xephyr | 20:42 |
| * Estel_ just hanged over his N900 to test it, just to notice, again, that device is dead... #$%$#R^ | 20:42 | |
| RiD | dead..battery? | 20:42 |
| Estel_ | so just calling this one command from extkbd every time new keyboard is connected would fix it? (as long as ED is running) Or just after starting LXDE? | 20:42 |
| Estel_ | any side effects noticed? | 20:42 |
| Estel_ | RiD, dead as per cold dead device | 20:43 |
| Estel_ | no signs of life whatsoever | 20:43 |
| RiD | ouch | 20:43 |
| Estel_ | no led, no framebuffer, no sign of life when connected to USB, no anything :( | 20:43 |
| Estel_ | and no idea why so | 20:43 |
| RiD | what did you dok | 20:43 |
| Estel_ | repaired IR diode :D | 20:43 |
| RiD | do? | 20:43 |
| RiD | so ir works | 20:43 |
| Estel_ | no seriously, it worked after that, but acted strangely. | 20:43 |
| RiD | but device doesnt | 20:43 |
| Estel_ | no, when it stopped to work next day, Ir doesn't work to0 :P | 20:44 |
| Estel_ | haha | 20:44 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: you should call that OUTSIDE extkbd, it is not extkbd's job to deal with other oses keyboard mappings. | 20:44 |
| RiD | i just hope i dont screw my usb ;) | 20:44 |
| freemangordon | On the other hand I can probide some hooks | 20:44 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, yea, something like putting it as part of thing starting LXDE sounds sane, I think | 20:44 |
| RiD | it's so loose it makes me sh_t everytime i plug it into something | 20:44 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, hm? | 20:44 |
| Estel_ | Rid, reinforce it at once ;) | 20:44 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: it is not so simple, how you're going to deal with language switching? | 20:45 |
| RiD | no, if i do that i end up having your device | 20:45 |
| RiD | fixed usb and screwed everything else | 20:45 |
| RiD | o_o | 20:45 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, setxkbmap from inside LXDE won't handle it? | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | NFC | 20:45 |
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| Estel_ | RiD, I reinforced many USb ports without problems. It suspect something re flat cable socket on motherboard got screwed | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: so your problem was that you were trying to setxkbmap on :0? | 20:46 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, no, of course not\ | 20:46 |
| freemangordon | then I still fail to see what was wrong. Not using xkbcomp ? | 20:46 |
| RiD | the problem is in the owner, hehe | 20:46 |
| Estel_ | generally, I've maemo's rx-51 file copied to ED's one, so hardware keyboard mapping from Maemo works flawlessly inside LXDE | 20:46 |
| Estel_ | I have my language mapping via setxkbmap pl in LXDe autostart script | 20:47 |
| freemangordon | aah, I see | 20:47 |
| Estel_ | (inside chroot) | 20:47 |
| Estel_ | it works for internal keyboard, but when I connect external one (BT, usb, doesn't matter) | 20:47 |
| freemangordon | using my methot you don't need to copy files | 20:47 |
| Estel_ | yea, it seems so | 20:47 |
| RiD | Estel_: i will pay you 10€ if you reinforce mine, but you'll have to deal with the shipping costs | 20:48 |
| RiD | (somewhere around 30 :D) | 20:48 |
| Estel_ | ...external keyboard works fine inside Maemo OR for ED programs started from maemo without LXDE as middleman, but wasn't working inside LXDE | 20:48 |
| freemangordon | at all? | 20:48 |
| Estel_ | RiD, reinforcing is 50 USd + shipping :D | 20:48 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, no, just letter worked, lower-case | 20:48 |
| RiD | no ty i'll do it my own | 20:48 |
| Estel_ | letters* | 20:48 |
| * RiD breaks his n900 in 2 pieces | 20:48 | |
| Estel_ | inside LXDE only, of course | 20:49 |
| RiD | sigh have to go | 20:49 |
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| Estel_ | in Maemo, everything was fine | 20:49 |
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| Estel_ | OTOH, mouse via extmou was working equally fine on Maemo and inside LXDE | 20:49 |
| freemangordon | hmm, i see one problem (from my stupid user POV), you need to switch LXDE's keyboard layout from within Maemo | 20:50 |
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| freemangordon | and blue symbols does not work | 20:51 |
| freemangordon | on internal KBD | 20:51 |
| freemangordon | anyway, I'm back to kernel-cssu | 20:52 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, thanks. Normally, when using external keyboard, I don't use internal (at the same time) | 20:53 |
| Estel_ | but but, how to revert it? | 20:53 |
| Estel_ | properly? | 20:53 |
| Estel_ | lets say I disconnect it in urge and put my n900 into pocket - without restarting LXDE | 20:54 |
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| freemangordon | Estel_: revert? setxkbmap nokia-rx51 or something :P | 20:55 |
| Estel_ | thanks, will try when I'll have working device | 20:55 |
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| vi__ | why does the n900 gps accracy suck? | 22:28 |
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| freemangordon | vi__: wut? | 22:29 |
| Gh0sty | because of solar flares, the lunar shift, magnetic radiation ... | 22:29 |
| Estel_ | vi_, it doesn't suck, just supl.nokia.com sucks | 22:29 |
| Gh0sty | try with a tinfoil hat for better reception! | 22:30 |
| freemangordon | or better put it in the basement | 22:30 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, re tinfoil hat, do you also experience N950 loses sewere ammount of signal, when held "incorrectly"? | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | especially, as compared to N900 angle tolerance? | 22:33 |
| freemangordon | for WiFi - deffinitely | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | turning it upside down happens to increase signal by 70%, sometimes, for me | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | yea | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | I wonder if they screwed alu body design | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | and it's acting like wrong reflector | 22:34 |
| freemangordon | black aluminium body :P | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | ha, ha ha. I'm going to do it better :P | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | hoped for stealing some of their idea, but it seems, that it's not an option | 22:34 |
| freemangordon | well, will see :D | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | I hoped that they did it best :p | 22:34 |
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| freemangordon | maybe that's the best | 22:34 |
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| Estel_ | best would be to put antennas in surface "after" alu body, not cut two holes on sides | 22:35 |
| Estel_ | in 1st examnple, signal would be always reflected to antennas | 22:35 |
| Estel_ | now, you need to "aim" correct side @ signal source | 22:35 |
| Estel_ | or alu body in the middle reflects it before it reaches antenna | 22:35 |
| freemangordon | well, could be, I am not much into radiowawes | 22:36 |
| Estel_ | i.e. you need either to aim by exposing N950's back to signal, or, best, correct side | 22:36 |
| Estel_ | I'm quite much into it. Well, maybe i'lkl fix it for N950 custom body, someday :P | 22:36 |
| Estel_ | and put 10a battery there :P | 22:36 |
| Estel_ | 10Ah* | 22:36 |
| Estel_ | judging by decreased thickness, one could put muuuch there, keeping no more thickness than N900 and mugen cover | 22:37 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, and what's about Your view for N950 as main device? fmtx (lack of) is still blocker, or other things too? | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | I told you, it is nice, but hildon is muuch better for me | 22:38 |
| Estel_ | sorry, missed it | 22:38 |
| Estel_ | same here | 22:38 |
| freemangordon | yeah, really, very nice device | 22:39 |
| freemangordon | browser is not that bad at all | 22:39 |
| Estel_ | and this sad feeling of wasted potential in many places... :P | 22:39 |
| freemangordon | yeah :( | 22:39 |
| Estel_ | like good book :P | 22:39 |
| Estel_ | browser isn't bad? It was first thing that haven't allowed me to pay for house | 22:39 |
| Estel_ | even symbian handled it correctly (bank website) | 22:40 |
| Estel_ | and N900 btowser open new pages much faster, despite lack of RAM :( | 22:40 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: I told you to upgrade the firmware, ain't? | 22:41 |
| Estel_ | ouh, got me on that | 22:41 |
| freemangordon | browser in P.R1.2 has nothing to do with the one in pre-beta | 22:41 |
| freemangordon | just flash the damn firmware at once :P | 22:42 |
| freemangordon | but be careful to flash PR 1.2 | 22:42 |
| Estel_ | aye, sir! | 22:42 |
| freemangordon | the page is very misleading | 22:42 |
| Estel_ | hm | 22:42 |
| Estel_ | which page?:D | 22:43 |
| Estel_ | damn, I cry for proper wiki | 22:43 |
| Estel_ | time to move my ass and run through countless thread and do 325435043 marked tabs, as now I feel little lost | 22:44 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: the one on nokis site with firmwares | 22:45 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, any point where You started to gather knowledge for tweaking N950? | 22:45 |
| Estel_ | aye, noticed that | 22:45 |
| freemangordon | sorry, cant help | 22:46 |
| Estel_ | for N900, it is wiki, where you also have many pointers to TMO thread, and so goes on | 22:46 |
| Estel_ | no problem | 22:46 |
| freemangordon | you'd better ask on #harmattan | 22:46 |
| Estel_ | tried that, no one knows (sic!) | 22:46 |
| Estel_ | I was surprised to see you're not there | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-07-23 18:55:50] <Estel_> I'm almsot sure I haven't destroyed anything, I was extra careful, but I was repairing it with 100W soldering iron without thermal regulation (trying to be blazing fast with touching). Nothing looked lie heated too much, but... | 22:49 |
| Estel_ | like8 instead of *lie*, sorry | 22:50 |
| freemangordon | WUT? | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ...but the capacitive coupled mains 220V killed several chips | 22:50 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, part of my question about psosible thing with flkat cable socket on n900 motherboard | 22:50 |
| freemangordon | 100W?!? | 22:50 |
| freemangordon | yeah, I know | 22:50 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, I was on trip, nothing better there :op | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should have unplugged it from mains before soldering | 22:51 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, it was resistive soldering iron, not transformer one :p | 22:51 |
| Estel_ | ah, I see | 22:51 |
| Estel_ | well, killed chips shouldn't work from start? | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 22:51 |
| Estel_ | it's possible, i don't say you're talking bullshit... | 22:51 |
| Estel_ | but I'm wondering why it worked 1 day | 22:51 |
| freemangordon | even worse, usually the heater is not well insulated | 22:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | a small damage grows | 22:52 |
| Estel_ | also, few killed chips should allow to at least "try" starting device (white led, etc) | 22:52 |
| Estel_ | I know i shouldn't do anything without my gas powered iron :( | 22:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway inficator LED should still flash a tiny bit on plugging in charger | 22:52 |
| Estel_ | probably, you're right. What makes me wonder is that it should at least show smallest signs of life. I've seen such no life only, when one day I forget to connect screen module via flat cable | 22:53 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, 0 sign of life, that's the thing | 22:53 |
| Estel_ | not even tiny bit of flash | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then it could actually be the FPC B2B socket | 22:53 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: wait, what. A soldering iron is capacitivly coupled to the work piece? | 22:53 |
| Estel_ | i.e. flat cable socket? | 22:53 |
| vi__ | but most of the energy is converted to heat! | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: sure thing, the heating capsule is in a tube of metal and that forms a capacitor | 22:54 |
| Estel_ | for some twisted reasons, they've designed it in a way, that - when no flat cable with screen is connected - it doesn't show signs of lie | 22:54 |
| freemangordon | vi__: could be coupled to mains, depending on the tyoe | 22:54 |
| Estel_ | I don't see any visible marks of damage on socket... | 22:54 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, i'm not such idiot to solder it with soldering iron coupled to main by design | 22:54 |
| freemangordon | not saying thar | 22:55 |
| Estel_ | I know | 22:55 |
| freemangordon | *that | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: connect a standard soldering iron to a outlet without PE and touch it with a phase tester | 22:55 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 22:55 |
| freemangordon | a finger will do the job too :P | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'll see sth like 110V ~ there | 22:55 |
| vi__ | ~pe | 22:55 |
| infobot | !!!!!!!!!!!lleH .... llA ..... sA ..... gnitatirrI .....s'tI !!!!!!!!!!!noitautcnuP !!!!!hcuM !!!!!oS !!!!gnisU !!!potS | 22:55 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, what do You know about this socket in motherboard? is it designed in some stupid way, or if I see solder points not damaged, it's ok? | 22:55 |
| vi__ | eh? | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think the socket is particularly nasty or sneaky | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just made for 10 rounds | 22:56 |
| Estel_ | well, I looked at it with magnifying glass, and it looked ok... | 22:56 |
| Estel_ | :P | 22:56 |
| Estel_ | haha | 22:56 |
| Estel_ | I agree it's bitchy thing for connecting it... | 22:57 |
| vi__ | I like it. | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~factinfo pe | 22:57 |
| infobot | pe -- created by dondelelcaro <~don@archimedes.urmc.rochester.edu> at Thu Jan 2 00:57:24 2003 (3490 days); it has been requested 3 times, last by vi__, 1m 59s ago. | 22:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal pe | 22:58 |
| infobot | "pe" is "<reply> !!!!!!!!!!!lleH .... llA ..... sA ..... gnitatirrI .....s'tI !!!!!!!!!!!noitautcnuP !!!!!hcuM !!!!!oS !!!!gnisU !!!potS" | 22:58 |
| vi__ | I wish I knew as much about harmattan as I did fremantle. Having to start over sucks. | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | stop using so much puncuation? ;) | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | protective earth | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the usually green-yellow wire | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | vi_, welcome in my world, but don't worry, it doesn't suck | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | I'm also searching for knowledge base | 22:58 |
| vi__ | Estel_: the UI sucks. | 22:59 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, this soldering iron had pe | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't really help | 22:59 |
| Estel_ | vi_, it's sucks as hell (although, as freemangordon said, be sure to update) | 22:59 |
| freemangordon | well, it suck if you come from fremantle | 22:59 |
| freemangordon | if you come from android, who knows ;) | 22:59 |
| Estel_ | well, it's possible that I'm idiot and destroyed my device this way, I got used to comfort of soldering with gas powered thing for years | 22:59 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, true | 23:00 |
| Estel_ | well, maybe qwazix and co will suceed in running full hildon on harm :) | 23:00 |
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| vi__ | Estel_: I have already updated to 1.2. Got the bootloop. flashed to 1.2. Installed open mode kernel. Got fucked in the ass by aegis. | 23:00 |
| Estel_ | still, I cry for microSd slot and camera lens cover... Well, the latter I can fix myself | 23:00 |
| vi__ | *sigh* | 23:00 |
| Estel_ | vi_, haha | 23:00 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: btw there is a tweak in store to rotate to landskape | 23:00 |
| freemangordon | *landscape | 23:00 |
| Estel_ | I'm going to love it ;) | 23:00 |
| Estel_ | vi_, shouldn't open kernel protect Your ass from aegis? | 23:01 |
| freemangordon | yeah, without it keyboard is useless most of the time | 23:01 |
| vi__ | it REALLY needs a backup menu. | 23:01 |
| Estel_ | no backupmenu equivalent? | 23:02 |
| Estel_ | 0_o | 23:02 |
| vi__ | not yet. | 23:02 |
| vi__ | I have not really played with mine yet. | 23:02 |
| vi__ | time is just so short. | 23:02 |
| Estel_ | vi_, my N900 died totally day before N950 arrived, when I was out of tools to safely upgrade n950 | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | (i.e reflash) | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | so I had to use it as main mobile computer and phone for a weekend | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | feel my sado-macho relationship with it | 23:03 |
| vi__ | when you say died, you mean killed? | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | being kicked inside from fully enchanced N900 | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | vi_, well, it lived after I finished my operation, died next day | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | it's not my fault (tm) :P | 23:04 |
| vi__ | lol, wtf did you do? | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | repaired IR diode | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | it got 2 metal plates on side, connected to pad on motherboard | 23:04 |
| vi__ | ... | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | it was broken in one side | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | I repaired it with what I had there (100W soldering iron) | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | I'm pretty sure it went clear without overheating anything, or dropping solder anywhere... | 23:05 |
| Estel_ | but, when ionserted battery, it turned out itself - bad signal | 23:05 |
| Estel_ | but it worked fine | 23:05 |
| Estel_ | next day, it stopped chargin by itself. I re-connected charger, and moniutored it for 15 minutes - everything was all right, charging with correct current etc | 23:05 |
| Estel_ | when I came back after hour, it was turned off, without signs of life. No power button reaction, no charger reaction, no usbv reaction | 23:05 |
| Estel_ | 0 life | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | strange as hell, have seen something like that only when flex cable for screen wasn't connected to motherboard | 23:06 |
| vi__ | cold flash? | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | tested my flex cable with other N900 | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | no sign of life whatsoever, can't do cold flash | 23:06 |
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| Estel_ | brick as in brick | 23:06 |
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| vi__ | wow | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | without any sign of damage anywhere (removed EMI shield to visualy inspect it) | 23:07 |
| Estel_ | I'll try to heat flex cable socket on motherboard, got nothing to loose anyhway... | 23:07 |
| Estel_ | (I'm back in home with my gas fuel for soldering iron) | 23:07 |
| Estel_ | or try desoldering this ir diode again.,.. :p I know, sounds silly | 23:08 |
| vi__ | Estel_: perhaps a more logical approac? | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | sure, be my guest and suggest it | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | unless You mean going into ebay and selling as "unknown state" :P | 23:08 |
| vi__ | 1. check battery is actually go power in it. | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | yea | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | it is | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | tested both battery voltage, and other batteries | 23:08 |
| vi__ | 2. check power to chips. | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | present | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | (as in power from battery to nearest elements) | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | no idea how to check it on specific chips later | 23:09 |
| vi__ | no, power to chips. gnd>vdd | 23:09 |
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| Estel_ | also tested if something important isn't shorted to ground | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | wait, could You elaborate more? i'm lost, what groundf and 5V? | 23:10 |
| vi__ | 3. sell it on ebay, unknown condition. | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | vi_, sure, but I can sell it with unknown condition even after burning whole motherboard :P | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | so it's worth to try anyway | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | well, i would definityely scavenbge camera module and finally tri removing IR filter | 23:11 |
| vi__ | look up schematics, trace the power back to various components as best you can. | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | to do Ir shots on day and night vision during night (lighted up by bunch od high-power IR dioded, connected to battery before protecxtion circuit) | 23:11 |
| vi__ | fuckit, it is toast. | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | vi_, tried that, not to mention that no idea wqhy something could broke | 23:12 |
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| Estel_ | well, i've ordered another n900 anyway, should arrive tomorrow... Still, I would like to repair this one, and reclaim my backups | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest you look at schematics and component placement for 60 min, with a nice glass of wine. And ponder what might have happened to the IR, the components connected to IR, and the components palced next to IR | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | or only reclaim files, if not repairable fully | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and for sure desoldering IR is a pretty good idea | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, exactly my plan for this evening | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | I suxx a little at reading N900's schematics, I must confess, but will try my best | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: I gather you checked syslog of PC for ROMBL message from USB? | 23:14 |
| vi__ | One mod I would like to see attempted is changing the value of the sense resistor for the proximity sensor. | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | ops, I'll be honest, nope. Shame on me | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | will do that | 23:14 |
| vi__ | make it less sensitive and all. | 23:14 |
| vi__ | stop the screen blanking in direct sunlight. | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, I'm kinda noon at this, what should I look at @ syslog and usb? You think about some small signs of life in mainteintance frequency? | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err WUT? | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | screen doesn't blank in bright sunlight, it simply shuts down backlight as it's useless anyway | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | (homeworld pun intended, with that signs of life on mainteintance frequency) | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | yea, transreflective | 23:16 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: no, however the proximity sensor becomes super sensitive. | 23:16 |
| Estel_ | but notification LED indeed disconnects :P | 23:16 |
| Estel_ | in sunlight | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it dims | 23:16 |
| Estel_ | vi_, havent experienced that, hm? | 23:16 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, it dims to the point of not lighting up at all? | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a know bug, the most idiotic one in whole fremantle | 23:17 |
| Estel_ | ...due to diode being connected to same led driver that keyboard is, and keyboard have to dim in high ambient light | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the indicator LED goes extremely dim but still visible | 23:17 |
| Estel_ | but honestly, I have some candidates for more idiotic bugs :P | 23:17 |
| Estel_ | in my case it isn't visible at all? | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | in direct sunlight? | 23:18 |
| freemangordon | WUT? I was thinking it was dead (indicator LED). dammit | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: depends on your breathing light pattern | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mine is rather bright by default | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, sure, my patterns are never more than 50 value (power) | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | so it's probably this | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | 50 at peak | 23:18 |
| vi__ | I think blue+shift+k sending two keycodes is pretty good bug. | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | not only k | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | another pair of button does it too | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that's a nice one too, vi__ | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | btw anyone know why it's that? | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not really a bug but rather a design flaw | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, dead in sunlight, or dead in my damaged n900? | 23:19 |
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| vi__ | estel it is explained nicely on the wiki. | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | in my damaged N900 it's dead, of course, all the time | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | vi_, sure, but I still don't know why:p | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: I elaborated on it in wiki/hardware/components or somesuch page | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | ah | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | i though about explanation in hardware keyboard remapping, which is not informative at all | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | let me guess, hardware design flaw? | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read the wiki | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | i.e. shorting traces for both keys, when shift blue arrow and k is pressed? | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | ok | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so called shadow keys | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aka n-key-rollover | 23:21 |
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| Estel_ | hm, domehsheet turned out to be trivial to remove and attach again, maybe some cutting with knife and alternative traces making could fix it?:P | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (not 100% sure if the 2nd term applies exactly) | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you rewrite the driver | 23:22 |
| kerio | or remap the keys :) | 23:24 |
| vi__ | kerio: facepalm. | 23:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: the amount of changes needed in hw to fix this flaw forbids a simple remapping to straighten things | 23:24 |
| kerio | shame :( | 23:25 |
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| vi__ | I have got some 'daves gourmet insanity sauce'. | 23:28 |
| vi__ | I am going to put it in this tarka dahl I am making. | 23:28 |
| vi__ | This shit is going to be off the chain. | 23:28 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, if I'm ever going to do custom body for N950, i'm putting 1W FM transmitter there :P | 23:30 |
| freemangordon | deal | 23:31 |
| freemangordon | :D | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | connected to audio jack with hardware switch to disable it | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | should allow to broadcast music in ~1 kilometer | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | :P | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | I concluded, that it's much, MUCH easier to do than trying to fix this chip not connected to antenna internally | 23:32 |
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| kerio | Estel_: is the fmtx antenna accessible, in the n900? | 23:32 |
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| vi__ | kerio: yes | 23:33 |
| vi__ | it even has a test jack | 23:33 |
| vi__ | so in theory you could hook in an external aerial | 23:34 |
| freemangordon | hmm, a second anthenna there? | 23:34 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: could you calculate a dipole for that? | 23:34 |
| kerio | vi__: how accessible is it? could an external aerial be hidden sideways in the mugen xl cover? | 23:34 |
| freemangordon | hmm, wait, won;t work | 23:34 |
| freemangordon | it is directional iirc | 23:35 |
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| kerio | i have no idea how big is it, never seen one (and pictures don't really help) | 23:35 |
| vi__ | kerio: yes, however it probably whould not be any bettter than what is there already. | 23:35 |
| kerio | aww :( | 23:36 |
| freemangordon | vi__: why? | 23:36 |
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| vi__ | well an ideal broadcast fm aerial is around 70cm long. | 23:37 |
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| freemangordon | then we have either 17.5 or 8.75 cm, ain't? | 23:38 |
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| freemangordon | by adding another 8.75 we should gain some more transmitting power, agree? | 23:39 |
| freemangordon | vi__: ^^^ | 23:39 |
| vi__ | no. You will just not loose as much power. | 23:39 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, it's simple one-wire put there, IIRC | 23:39 |
| Estel_ | basically, any dipole would increase range | 23:39 |
| Estel_ | but FMTX is just 50 nW | 23:40 |
| freemangordon | but it is directional | 23:40 |
| freemangordon | dipole that is | 23:40 |
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| freemangordon | iirc | 23:40 |
| Estel_ | I'm actually surprised it performs so well | 23:40 |
| Estel_ | yea | 23:40 |
| freemangordon | won't do the job then | 23:40 |
| Estel_ | but but, it's directionality is very low | 23:40 |
| Estel_ | why not, it should, i'm using dipol for receiving FM too | 23:40 |
| freemangordon | hmm, ok, if you say so | 23:40 |
| fasta | "modern PCs are horrible" | 23:41 |
| Estel_ | Dipol is 2 sides directional | 23:41 |
| fasta | Who do you think also said that? | 23:41 |
| vi__ | it is generally accepted that a 1/4 wave monopole will give you 0db gain. | 23:41 |
| Estel_ | 1/3 less power in 2 sides, 2/3 more power in remaining 2 sides | 23:41 |
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| fasta | "modern PCs are horrible" -- Linus Torvalds | 23:41 |
| freemangordon | vi__: what about 1/8? as it seems that is the case with n900 | 23:42 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, practically, no antenna give You any gain at all | 23:42 |
| freemangordon | sure | 23:42 |
| Estel_ | it just tunnels range | 23:42 |
| * Estel_ nod | 23:42 | |
| freemangordon | yeah, LC | 23:42 |
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| Estel_ | so no gain without introducing any directional resonance | 23:42 |
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| vi__ | at 1/8 you are losing power | 23:43 |
| Estel_ | practically, yes | 23:43 |
| Estel_ | theoretically* | 23:43 |
| Estel_ | practically, no :P | 23:43 |
| freemangordon | buth there are some chip parameters for anthenna capacity, could we use that to prolong the wire, while keeping the range | 23:43 |
| Estel_ | lets put it this way - on 0 antenna, you are in some power | 23:43 |
| Estel_ | any icnrease from that gain You something | 23:44 |
| Estel_ | sure | 23:44 |
| freemangordon | range as frequency range | 23:44 |
| freemangordon | that should give some boost | 23:44 |
| Estel_ | absolutely, and using fractal antenna would gain us that without using xxx long wire | 23:44 |
| Estel_ | but what type of fractal woluld be best for FM wavelengths, hm | 23:45 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: task for the weeken - engineer it :P | 23:45 |
| freemangordon | *weekend | 23:45 |
| Estel_ | (in this case, we would use fractal capacitance copuling as feature, not multi-band characteristic) | 23:45 |
| Estel_ | :P | 23:45 |
| Estel_ | well, using simple triangle fractal, without any calculations, one guy boosted wrt54gl range to 1 KM, with reliable link between two :P | 23:46 |
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| vi__ | wut? | 23:47 |
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| vi__ | any increase of legth HAS to be on one of the harmonics of the frequency you are dealing wit. | 23:47 |
| Estel_ | http://www.andrewhazelden.com/blog/2011/02/homemade-sierpinski-gasket-fractal-wifi-antenna/ | 23:47 |
| Estel_ | vi_, not in case of fractals | 23:48 |
| vi__ | ^with. | 23:48 |
| Estel_ | self-similarity made them damn multiband | 23:48 |
| Estel_ | self-similarity made them resonant to very wide range of frequencies, depending on tuner sucking data | 23:48 |
| vi__ | Estel_: so SWR does not exist in the domain of the fractal antenna? | 23:48 |
| Estel_ | when properly designed, they can be almost fully wide-band | 23:48 |
| Estel_ | when properly designed, SWR from one size multiplier is fought by resonance of another few pas of size in or de-crease | 23:49 |
| Estel_ | remember, self similarity | 23:49 |
| Estel_ | it's the same for shorter or longer size | 23:49 |
| Estel_ | same shape | 23:49 |
| Estel_ | in one antenna, at the same time | 23:49 |
| Estel_ | it's like having few different antennas at once, at least tuned for few different wavelenghts | 23:50 |
| vi__ | I dunno, you are arguing against pretty much the fundimental principle of radio theory. | 23:50 |
| Estel_ | well, SWR definitelly still exist :) | 23:50 |
| Estel_ | and fractal antennas are not "absolutely lossless solution" | 23:50 |
| Estel_ | it's rather about fact, that when poroperly designed, it's hard to get SW there | 23:50 |
| Estel_ | standing wave* | 23:50 |
| Estel_ | at least, on frequencies you're interested in | 23:50 |
| Estel_ | BTw, fractal antennas shattered fundamentals of radio theory, anyway | 23:51 |
| Estel_ | to this day many people belive they're as effective as random wire only - despite fact, that practice proved they're much better, and that they're widely used in mobile equipment etc | 23:51 |
| Estel_ | and by "some people" I also mean radio engineers on big academies | 23:51 |
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| Estel_ | some of them only, of course | 23:52 |
| freemangordon | hmm, according to the pictures of WiFi anthenna, FM one should be something 30x30cm | 23:52 |
| Estel_ | it's about the fact that why they work is still theory, but in practice, it works :p | 23:52 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, sure, but it's in 2D | 23:52 |
| Estel_ | you can design 3D one much, much smaller | 23:52 |
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| Estel_ | or use different fractal | 23:52 |
| Estel_ | this one is highly directional | 23:52 |
| freemangordon | me? no, I can't :D | 23:52 |
| Estel_ | (one in picture) | 23:52 |
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| Estel_ | :P | 23:53 |
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| Estel_ | simpliest 3D one is just 2 or 3 2D ones, assembled in 3D shape | 23:53 |
| Estel_ | like 3D puzzles | 23:53 |
| vi__ | Estel_: I would never use a thing I could not understand in a design. | 23:54 |
| Estel_ | so why using GPS? ;) | 23:54 |
| Estel_ | it's precision fix is based on relativity theory, which stated that for objects moving with speed to each other, time passes differently | 23:55 |
| Estel_ | it's only theory, no hard proof | 23:55 |
| Estel_ | yet, without putting it into account, GPS would be always muich less precise | 23:55 |
| kerio | apart from, you know, the fact that gps works | 23:55 |
| Estel_ | they *must* put into account speed of satellite and difference in time passing (that is, satellites are "youunger" than they should, a little bit) | 23:55 |
| Estel_ | to maintain precision | 23:56 |
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| Estel_ | BTW, 3/4 of modern physic is theory | 23:56 |
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| Estel_ | and half of medicine | 23:56 |
| vi__ | nd most of all statistics. | 23:56 |
| Estel_ | we don't have a fucking clue about world surrounding us, we're just guessing, but we're trying to guess as precisely as we can | 23:56 |
| Estel_ | thats the science :P | 23:56 |
| Estel_ | as compared to religion, which doesn't try to guess at all, but pretend that it knows better :P | 23:57 |
| * Estel_ hides | 23:57 | |
| * freemangordon is off for dinner | 23:58 | |
| kerio | Estel_: YOU CAN'T HIDE FROM THE SPANISH INQUISITION | 23:58 |
| Estel_ | hahaha | 23:58 |
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| * Estel_ loves monty python | 23:59 | |
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