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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: aiui missing is the signalling from USM ENUM power negotiation to charger max current, anf the replacement for hald-addon-bme | 00:29 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | USB* | 00:29 |
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| kerio | the what? | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 00:30 |
| kerio | "It also detect USB/host charger and dedicated/wallcharger, so working without user interaction." | 00:30 |
| kerio | -- Pali, http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/projects/maemo/bq2415x.html | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno | 00:30 |
| kerio | hell, you can even force a particular mode in addition to going with auto mode | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hell, *I* specified that | 00:31 |
| kerio | so what's the missing signalling? | 00:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure if pali implemented anything regardin that, but when you plug your N900 to a PC via USB hub, the hub will tell (actually PC will) "N900, you can draw max 300mA, as PC delivers 500 and I need 100 and there's a kbd as well that needs another 100) | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | " | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is happening deep in USB drivers, and I dunno how tightly pali coupled that to charger chip | 00:33 |
| kerio | so would setting the n900 to charger mode make it such as much power as it can? | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd hope not too tight since it's a complex theme with lots of niche cases that work slightly different to usual case | 00:34 |
| kerio | *suck | 00:34 |
| kerio | it sounds dangerous | 00:35 |
| kerio | (for the host and the rest of the devices) | 00:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it *might* result in N900 suck 500mA unconditionally, and that *might* cause some PC to blow chunks, usually under windows and sw side, but occasionally even hw side | 00:35 |
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| kerio | the sheevaplug comes to mind, actually | 00:36 |
| kerio | its power supply can barely sustain 500mA plus the rest of the system | 00:36 |
| kerio | plugging in "bad" usb devices can and will cause the PSU to blow up | 00:36 |
| kerio | (ish) | 00:36 |
| kerio | well, not really, but it'll stress it | 00:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | what's much more lacking in daily usage though is the hald-addon-bme and libbmeipc.so that allows hal to display meaningful status of charger etc | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and in the end takes care to shut down system gracefully instead of simply pulling the plug when battery is completely on its knees | 00:38 |
| kerio | so... the battery icon? | 00:38 |
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| kerio | oh right, there's also the graceful shutdown | 00:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I *think* there should be a better way not involving HAL and the bq24140/bq27x00 and bluetooth and whatnot, since iirc the twl4030 has two thresholds, one for graceful and one for ultimate shutdown. Alas iirc this isn't used | 00:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | for sure you'll get no battery icon and no bat-low warnings without hald-addon-bme | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and 80% of the crappy acme-battery-monitors out there will cease to work | 00:43 |
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| kerio | hm, what's the twl? | 00:45 |
| kerio | as opposed to bq | 00:45 |
| vi__ | apparently pali has no taste for dill sauce. | 00:47 |
| vi__ | I wish FMG would keep a blog like that. | 00:47 |
| SpeedEvil | twl is the TI companion chip that does power managment, USB PHY (in some cases, not the n900, and some other stuff | 00:48 |
| vi__ | It would be majorly beneficial when he comes to try and find work post uni. | 00:48 |
| kerio | i see | 00:48 |
| kerio | isn't that what BME uses? | 00:49 |
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| MrPingu | g evening | 01:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | morning | 01:50 |
| chem|st | morning | 01:51 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ponders to rite lengty explanation to kerio | 01:52 | |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: for what? | 01:52 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 decides against it | 01:52 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: no | 01:52 |
| chem|st | better explain to me how to get the libs in the right place for building armel targets | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ouch, noob here | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yawning noob | 01:53 |
| chem|st | usually $PATH has it | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | libraries? hardly | 01:53 |
| chem|st | but no it is looking somewhere in the target compiler directory | 01:53 |
| chem|st | well a package having -dev at the end should have postinstall script looking if it is running from device or sdk and place the libs at the right place, no? | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | libraries are "fun" stuff | 01:55 |
| chem|st | always | 01:55 |
| chem|st | had a symlink loop a while ago | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty decent info | 01:57 |
| chem|st | app-management should change to something like there is a base system all can use, special stuff needs to be packed with the program | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're free to do that | 01:57 |
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| chem|st | debian should start something like that and have "stable" announced 'base' | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | man ld-linux | 01:58 |
| chem|st | I don't care about fscked suse or foobuntu | 01:58 |
| chem|st | ;) | 01:59 |
| chem|st | I am familiar with ld-linux | 02:00 |
| chem|st | but usually everything works over her | 02:00 |
| chem|st | e | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also with ld-library-path? | 02:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and the always ignored ldconfig ;-p | 02:01 |
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| chem|st | I should buy a new netbook the first day it is on the market, again. 15 kernels and at least 100h later I had a working device and was used to booting into init 1 every second boot | 02:04 |
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| Macer | tape a raspi to an lcd screen | 02:17 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: Bloodsucking Parasite Named After Bob Marley | 04:11 |
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| louis__ | Hi | 04:18 |
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| RST38h | Three out of every five major patent suits involve Apple | 04:19 |
| louis__ | How many in here does still use N900 as their main phone? | 04:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | I did. For today. | 04:20 |
| SpeedEvil | me | 04:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | It made me realize exactly how shitty the Harmattan browser is. | 04:21 |
| SpeedEvil | I just moved my main 'landline' onto it. | 04:21 |
| louis__ | @GeneralAntilles Well. The default browser in N900 is pretty slow. | 04:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Despite that it actually works. | 04:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can actually visit websites and browse them. | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | and click on small links | 04:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Unlike with the various WebKit-based piles of poo that are passed-off as browsers by other platforms. | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | What about the upcoming piles of chrome? | 04:23 |
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| louis__ | @GeneralAntilles What websites? N9's browser works fine for me. | 04:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, Google can go die in a fire. | 04:24 |
| RST38h | General: Use Opera | 04:24 |
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| infobot | DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! | 04:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: I in many ways agree, though I've ordered a nexus 7. | 04:24 |
| louis__ | RST38h: Opera doesn't integrate nicely niether into Maemo or MeeGo. | 04:25 |
| RST38h | louis: it integrates nicely enough for me | 04:25 |
| louis__ | RST38h: When you open it on N900 it shows a keyboard right? | 04:26 |
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| jpinx | louis__: my n900 is main phone, main computer and occasional modem for my laptop | 04:33 |
| louis__ | jpinx: Nice | 04:34 |
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| jpinx | louis__: the browser sux - depending on the specific site (how scripty/flashy it is) but that's life ;) | 04:35 |
| louis__ | I feel like there're more community apps and open source apps in development for the N900, than the N9. | 04:35 |
| jpinx | louis__: there almost certainly is,but a lot of it is too technical for me | 04:37 |
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| louis__ | jpix: Have you tried some browser under development for N900 like the midori browser? :) | 04:38 |
| jpinx | I tried midori a while back - it's worse than the standard | 04:39 |
| louis__ | jpix: Loading website or the interface? | 04:40 |
| jpinx | louis__: if you want to be fancy, install a chroot, install debian with really basic X and install swiftfox (stripped down firefox) | 04:40 |
| louis__ | I've tried Chromium in Easy Debian ;) | 04:41 |
| * jpinx is allergic to google | 04:41 | |
| jpinx | I have every script/cookie/flash blocker known to man installed ;) speeds thing up a lot | 04:42 |
| * louis__ does only use Google for searching. | 04:42 | |
| jpinx | louis__: use duckduck | 04:42 |
| louis__ | jpinx: It's based on Bing right? | 04:43 |
| jpinx | no | 04:43 |
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| jpinx | go and research it ;) | 04:43 |
| louis__ | Right okay ;) | 04:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, I was thinking about it, too. | 04:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | I have a fascination with 7" tablets even though I have no use for them in my life. | 04:46 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: I was considering an upgrade of my Wopad i7 tablet to one with 1G of RAM - and it was either a no-name chinese one for $150ish, or one with a _much_ faster processor, bluetooth, high res screen, ... for $199 | 04:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, it looks nice | 04:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Supposedly being sold around cost. | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | It's actually almost exactly the same measurements as my existing tablet | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | to a couple of mm | 04:48 |
| ShadowJK | nexus7 pricing is weird. Can understand in us gooogle is hoping on google play content, but in UK nexus7 wont get all that, yet comes with same peanuts price.. and in eu the google play situatuin is presumably similar to UK, yet price is double.. | 04:50 |
| SpeedEvil | I dunno. | 04:51 |
| SpeedEvil | I recently bought a book on google play. | 04:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Admittedly - more would be good. | 04:51 |
| * ShadowJK is considering an Asus TF700 with keyboard dock.. | 04:51 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Google's got so much cash | 04:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Spreading Android is probably more important than making bucks on commodity hardware. | 04:52 |
| ShadowJK | availability is shitty though. | 04:52 |
| ShadowJK | And also I keep thinking it'd be infinitely more useful with a proper os :) | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | "" | 04:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, yeah, well, when there's a proper mobile OS available. . . . | 04:53 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles; well it's essentially a laptop but with android | 04:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, the TF700? | 04:53 |
| * ShadowJK wonders if he can buy from google play uk store, and if not, if that would violate eu single markets directives :) | 04:54 | |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles; yes | 04:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | loleu | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | amazon store is US only - for android | 04:55 |
| jpinx | ShadowJK: needs a remote shell ;) | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I want the next tablet I buy to have pop-out quadcopter blades. | 04:58 |
| SpeedEvil | So I can't drop it. | 04:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Magic | 04:58 |
| SpeedEvil | It does not have to be made out of a cat. | 04:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Though I'd pay extra. | 04:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Might be smelly | 04:59 |
| * jpinx gives SpeedEvil a mini-parachute | 04:59 | |
| jpinx | SpeedEvil: fwiw - I saw heavy duty silicon cases for various phones and tablets in the market - and the guy demonstrating their "bouncy-ness" ;) | 05:01 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 05:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I have wondered about doing something with some CF fabric. | 05:02 |
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| louis__ | The USB port broke on my N900 :/ | 05:19 |
| jpinx | louis__: there is reams about fixing that on the web | 05:20 |
| jpinx | SpeedEvil: fwiw - I use my n900 standing on buses etc and I use a wrist-strap -- both to prevent it clattering on the floor and to deter snatchers ;) | 05:21 |
| jpinx | it also means I can let go deliberately to find money for tickets etc and not worry | 05:22 |
| * jpinx 's only real gripe with the n900 is the high battery use | 05:23 | |
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| louis__ | jpinx: Seems like you have to be every good with a soldering iron: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=693493&postcount=12 | 05:27 |
| jpinx | louis__: reasonable - and use a very fine pointed soldering iron | 05:28 |
| jpinx | louis__: you can do the same trick with araldite or similar, but be very careful to not be messy ;) | 05:28 |
| louis__ | jpinx: Too bad it's hard to just buy a N900 motherboard w/ all things attached except cover. | 05:29 |
| jpinx | louis__: I buy any "broken" n900's I find if they are cheap - just for the parts | 05:29 |
| jpinx | some only need cleaned and reflashed ;) | 05:30 |
| louis__ | jpinx: It's hard to find broken N900's on ebay. | 05:31 |
| * jpinx is not in USA | 05:31 | |
| * louis__ is not in USA either. | 05:33 | |
| louis__ | I live in Denmark, Europe so I find parts from either germany or UK, | 05:33 |
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| * jpinx travels a lot ;) | 05:38 | |
| * louis__ have 2x N900s with broken USB, and 1x with broken mic. Have brought them used. | 05:45 | |
| louis__ | And 1x N9 with stock power button! | 05:45 |
| * louis__ should be hired as crash tester for Nokia/Jolla. | 05:46 | |
| jpinx | louis__: sounds like you have easily got the makings of at least 2 n900's ;) | 05:49 |
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| LaoLang_cool | hi, where is the audio file of camera when taking a photo? | 05:50 |
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| louis__ | Do you use some nice software for your N900? :) | 05:54 |
| jpinx | louis__: nope -I played with chroot et a few years ago but my situation requires me to reboot often and setting it up every time was too much of a pain | 05:56 |
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| louis__ | Well. I use IM on both N900 and now N9 and it just kills the battery life ;/ | 06:03 |
| louis__ | But I really miss my N900. | 06:06 |
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| cehteh | btw: DocScrutinizer some porn for you: http://www.flickr.com/photos/travisgoodspeed/sets/72157625055541964/with/5988899172/ | 06:24 |
| jpinx | louis__: yea - battery life is a big issue - I have a little 2xAA charger, but even that will not top up enough for 24 hours use | 06:35 |
| ShadowJK | With stock kernel, some of those 2xaa things can actually end up drawing more power on the device than they contribute | 06:35 |
| jpinx | louis__: and the more fancy software you run - the more battery it munches | 06:35 |
| jpinx | ShadowJK: yea - you have to be careful ;) | 06:36 |
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| ShadowJK | Because with stock kernel there's extra 80-100mA power draw whenever anything at all is connected to usb port | 06:36 |
| cehteh | anyone still uses the stock kernel? :) | 06:37 |
| ShadowJK | with powerkernel this doesn't happen if you connect chargers | 06:37 |
| jpinx | louis__: I run my n900 with minimal screen lighting, shortest time off, etc, but the real issue is gprs/wifi -- it totally gobbles battery | 06:37 |
| cehteh | with some tweaks and power kernel one can get okish runtimes | 06:38 |
| ShadowJK | gprs and wifi are pretty low consumption for me, on my main device on which I run xchat and many many channels, I'd get about 20 hours or more of standby | 06:39 |
| cehteh | of course, more would be better | 06:39 |
| cehteh | wifi takes a lot when listening to webradio | 06:39 |
| ShadowJK | or about 3 days without stuff running | 06:39 |
| cehteh | (including playing mp3) | 06:39 |
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| ShadowJK | uh, yes :) | 06:40 |
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| ShadowJK | You're looking at 4-6 hours there | 06:40 |
| cehteh | also cell switchen where gprs is bad covered costs a lot power | 06:40 |
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| ShadowJK | Yeah I noticed I was burning through power like crazy on gprs when I was out at sea | 06:40 |
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| cehteh | cycling trough the black forrest is already bad enough :P | 06:41 |
| ShadowJK | The forrest here has rather good coverage on gsm | 06:41 |
| jpinx | cehteh: yea - I often switch to ofline mode when travelling | 06:41 |
| jpinx | fwiw the mains charger can often not keep up with consumption | 06:42 |
| ShadowJK | That's really exceptional in my experience | 06:42 |
| ShadowJK | At that rate the N900 should be getting quite warm too | 06:42 |
| jpinx | it does ;) | 06:43 |
| ShadowJK | That must be atrociously bad coverage :) | 06:43 |
| ShadowJK | Or IM/IRC on 3g | 06:43 |
| jpinx | it is ;) | 06:43 |
| jpinx | 2.5G with very patchy coverage even when standing still | 06:44 |
| ShadowJK | Well it's like, one bar from full doubles power consumption, approx :) | 06:44 |
| ShadowJK | in my experience | 06:44 |
| jpinx | 2 bars showing atm,,,,, | 06:44 |
| jpinx | so 3 down - | 06:44 |
| jpinx | octuplets the consumption ? :( | 06:45 |
| ShadowJK | At some point it just goes slower instead | 06:46 |
| ShadowJK | data transfer | 06:46 |
| jpinx | it does that too :( | 06:46 |
| jpinx | I'm in the realm of bytes/s | 06:47 |
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| eddyb | https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/mobile/ | 08:16 |
| eddyb | it's so nice, except it's just for Android and iOS :( | 08:16 |
| kerio | eddyb: android emulation layer gogogogo | 08:17 |
| eddyb | kerio: the only problem with that is Java | 08:17 |
| eddyb | the more Java, the slower and crappier it gets | 08:17 |
| kerio | meh, JITs are pretty fast | 08:18 |
| eddyb | yeah, but, it's a mess of different things | 08:18 |
| eddyb | anyway, what's NITdroid? | 08:18 |
| kerio | a miserable little pile of secrets | 08:19 |
| kerio | and by secrets i mean binary blobs | 08:19 |
| kerio | it's android for nokia internet tablets | 08:19 |
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| kerio | aka the worst of both worlds | 08:19 |
| eddyb | but is it a full OS or just a compat layer? | 08:20 |
| kerio | it's a full OS | 08:20 |
| kerio | it's android | 08:20 |
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| eddyb | meh... | 08:27 |
| eddyb | kerio: wait, chrom{e,ium} doesn't have a single line of Java in it | 08:27 |
| kerio | i really hope it's completely native code | 08:28 |
| eddyb | the version for android either has a platform-specific layer (maybe Java) or it just uses X | 08:28 |
| eddyb | (and any other generic linux stuff) | 08:28 |
| eddyb | the problem with Google Play is that you need attached devices | 08:29 |
| eddyb | CURRENT VERSION: 18.0.1025123 << and it's also old | 08:30 |
| eddyb | https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromebox.html lol, google is trying everything | 08:33 |
| kerio | oh god, it's a mac mini with a crappier OS | 08:34 |
| eddyb | I wouldn't say crappier OS, but rather "crazy architecture" | 08:35 |
| eddyb | they took linux, put chrome on top of it, and written all the apps in HTML5 | 08:36 |
| kerio | i would say crappier OS | 08:40 |
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| jpinx | it's a cool concept, but you have to trail a lot of usb cables around with it, or spare batteries for your bluetooth mouse, kbd, etc | 08:41 |
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| eddyb | kerio: it's not even an OS | 08:44 |
| eddyb | it's a linux kernel and a browser :)) | 08:44 |
| eddyb | maybe a X server and a few other things in between, but it's still different from your average OS | 08:45 |
| jpinx | Hmmm -- seems to be pretty much closed - no commandline or suchlike | 08:46 |
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| kerio | why the fuck does qtmobilehotspot need rootsh for? | 08:51 |
| kerio | rootsh is a fuckup of the gainroot script for interactive use | 08:51 |
| kerio | it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to use it in a programmatic way | 08:51 |
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| Lava_Croft | chrome os is pretty much useless in these days of smartphones | 09:43 |
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| Lava_Croft | if you are going to carry around a netbook, you might as well install a real OS on it | 09:43 |
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| Timmy | created a ext4 partition on sdcard, but cant mount it. error report says invalid argument | 10:11 |
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| cehteh | modprobe ext4 | 10:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ack | 13:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: reason: developer didn't know how sudo works | 13:14 |
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| joga | how does one save in dungeon master/chaos strikes back? ;) | 13:47 |
| cehteh | hehe ... i once started it and remembered looong ago when i played the original on amiga | 13:48 |
| cehteh | ('89 or when was that?) | 13:49 |
| joga | ah, *there* it was | 13:55 |
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| Pali | Timmy, update to last CSSU, it will automount any partition on SD card (ext4 too) | 14:04 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer: i gave in ._. | 15:29 |
| kerio | i installed rootsh and set sudo to ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL | 15:29 |
| kerio | i feel dirty | 15:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and right so, it IS dirty | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any package depending on rootsh, and particularly on a silly deprecated and already fixed afaik security-nuking property of rootsh should get a ticket and get removed from extras | 15:40 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 silently prays MohammadAG did "the right thing" for h-e-n X-P | 15:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc h-e-n changes own process to root - not exactly nice but still better than messing up (or relying on already messed up) sudoers for everybody and his dog | 15:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | with ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL we could nuke sudoers all together, since this is actually the only line you'll ever need ;-P | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and malware heaven | 15:45 |
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| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: malware heaven. | 15:47 |
| vi_ | n900 | 15:47 |
| vi_ | lols | 15:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: sure thing - if all an arbitrary rogue JS webpage needs to do is call arbitrary "echo foobar >/etc/hosts" via sudo, then I call this malware heaven, even on N900 | 15:50 |
| vi_ | ... | 15:50 |
| vi_ | webpage JS cannot run shell commands. | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 15:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ $ id | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uid=29999(user) gid=29999(users) | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ $ root | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Password: | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ $ sudo /sbin/hwclock | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Password: | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah I know you could still invoke HAM and install whatever shit you like, to break that | 15:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but I never would trust any pkg/app that barfs up on this and requires me to change that to >>ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL<< | 15:58 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ponders to secure HAM with a HDsudo wrapper | 16:00 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so each time HAM gets invoked, you need to enter your root password into a (e.g. zenity) textbox requester | 16:01 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why just HAM? | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what else? | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no fapman here ;-P | 16:11 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: :c | 16:11 |
| kerio | well, everything that requires superuser, maybe | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and no other tool that would allow gaining root | 16:11 |
| kerio | the thing about rootsh, is that it changes a system file | 16:12 |
| kerio | or, rather | 16:12 |
| kerio | it changes a file that belongs to another package | 16:12 |
| kerio | via deb scripts | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 16:12 |
| kerio | which is a big no | 16:12 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: /usr/sbin/gainroot is something maemoific | 16:12 |
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| kerio | that checks for rd-mode before allowing you in | 16:12 |
| kerio | rootsh substitutes that for a different scripts, that just allows you in | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, just because rootsh has no *proper* etc/sudoers.d/* file | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 16:14 |
| infobot | jrtools is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for how to fix that | 16:14 |
| kerio | no, no, you can always sudo gainroot | 16:14 |
| kerio | it's there in 01sudo, or something | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check ~jrtools | 16:14 |
| kerio | less /usr/sbin/gainroot.old | 16:14 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i am aware of how sudo works, tyvm | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what's your point then? | 16:15 |
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| kerio | my point is that rootsh*.deb has no place in any apt repository ever | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can ship an update, to 1 mio devices | 16:18 |
| kerio | i can what? | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that doesn't change /usr/sbin/gainroot but rather installs /usr/sbin/gainroot-too | 16:19 |
| kerio | and makes "root" call gainroot-too --use-su? | 16:19 |
| kerio | meh | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 16:19 |
| kerio | the idea behind rootsh is flawed anyway | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the idea behinf busybox is flawed | 16:20 |
| kerio | no | 16:20 |
| kerio | the idea behind busybox is solid | 16:20 |
| kerio | tiny shell for shellscripts on small embedded devices with very low resources | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, esp regarding busybox su | 16:21 |
| kerio | it's just that it's not a good idea for the n900 | 16:21 |
| kerio | hm, what does it do? | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, su binary obviously needs suid to work. Now in busybox su is busybox | 16:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't like busybox to be set suid | 16:23 |
| kerio | oh, i see | 16:24 |
| kerio | hmm | 16:24 |
| kerio | well, it's not really a big deal if busybox is written properly | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HAHAHA | 16:24 |
| kerio | no, seriously :( | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, it's hard enough to make sure and validate code for small binaries with suid, so there are no exploits | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for busybox I'm sure it's a matter of hours to be 100% convinced I can trust in it | 16:26 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: compile it statically, have it drop privileges right at the beginning of main() if it's not called for "su" | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yayaya | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I know how to drop privileges, tyvm | 16:28 |
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| kerio | anyway, i'm really sad that i don't have a working cleven because of KP51 | 16:29 |
| kerio | dammit Pali, y u no push update to repo y(y°#°)y | 16:29 |
| kerio | s/y(/(/ | 16:29 |
| infobot | kerio meant: dammit Pali, y u no push update to repo (y°#°)y | 16:29 |
| vi_ | ...cleven works fine. | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dammit kerio, because he is doing the right thing, and u r asking for the wrong thing | 16:32 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: I believe he should use the development repo for what it was intended for. | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | debatable | 16:33 |
| vi_ | Instead of just hosting random .deb files on his blog. | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I tend to agree with you, but only in general | 16:34 |
| kerio | vi_: yeah but KP51 includes the backported drivers, and it conflicts with the package that cleven depends on | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since KP been stuck in promotion to testing for so long, everybody got used to KP living in devel | 16:35 |
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| kerio | so it was either a bad dpkg situation, or no cleven | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IOW nobody is using the extras(-testing) versions of KP, so you would break KP for a _lot_ of users that rely on it working stable from extras-devel | 16:36 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: 1850's Americana was used to the slave trade. It does not make it right. | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: I'll simply ignore that | 16:37 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: Well they should wise the fuck up and stop living on the bleeding edge if they cannot handle it. | 16:37 |
| kerio | <DocScrutinizer05> [...] stable from extras-devel | 16:37 |
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| kerio | and really, does anyone actually use anything but -devel? | 16:39 |
| kerio | i mean, anyone who likes to dick around with this kind of stuff | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "baaahaaawhaaa!! booohooo! I installed a 'broken' PK from a random blog, and now the maintainer refuses to ship the very KP via estras-devel so I could FIX it" - suuuure | 16:40 |
| kerio | i never said boohoo | 16:40 |
| kerio | :( | 16:40 |
| vi_ | FWIW, I do not have kp51. | 16:40 |
| kerio | but yeah, i see | 16:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: if there are problems with dependencies, we should try to find a solution for that by fixing the dependencies | 16:53 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, linux-kernel-backported-modules or whatever doesn't really conflict with kp51 | 16:54 |
| kerio | so i don't really see why Pali made it so | 16:54 |
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| kerio | unless the modules depended on a particular KP version | 16:54 |
| kerio | in which case... \_o_/ | 16:54 |
| Pali | kerio, each kernel module is compiled for one kernel version | 16:55 |
| kerio | hm, makes sense | 16:55 |
| Pali | but if you do not make a lot of changes in kernel modules from other version will work too | 16:55 |
| Pali | but must be loaded with force option (to ignore version string) | 16:56 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: cleven expects the modules to be in a particular place, which is not the default location (where they *should* be) | 16:56 |
| kerio | perhaps the next linux-backports-modules-power should depend strictly on kp51 and just add the symlinks for the wifi modules | 16:57 |
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| kerio | and it should be marked deprecated/for backwards compat only | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, the probelm seems to be that cleven comes with kernel modules at all | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui | 16:58 |
| kerio | it doesn't | 16:59 |
| kerio | it depends on linux-backports-modules-power | 16:59 |
| kerio | which makes sense | 16:59 |
| kerio | ish | 16:59 |
| kerio | the fact that it comes with a script to load said modules is the problem, i suppose | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it rather should depend on a kernel property, that is provided by a separate kernelmodule pkg, or by PK51+ | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, I see, it unloads original modules and modprobes the tweaked ones, only during runtime of cleven? | 17:01 |
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| kerio | well, it has a button to toggle that | 17:02 |
| kerio | but yeah | 17:02 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 hmmms | 17:03 | |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: KP should standardize the injection load/unload/query | 17:04 |
| kerio | oh hey, Pali made a shellscript for that! | 17:04 |
| kerio | how convenient | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: does KP51 ship with both original and tweaked wifi modules? or only with the tweaked ones? | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, that answers my question I'd guess | 17:04 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: both, the weird ones are blacklisted | 17:05 |
| kerio | Pali's shellscript is not shipped with kp51 though | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: basically you need a new version of cleven for KP51 | 17:06 |
| kerio | yeah | 17:06 |
| kerio | but how do we make it so that we don't necessarily need a new version of cleven for new versions of KP? | 17:06 |
| kerio | from cleven's next version onwards, i mean | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I think KP52 will ship with same script of pali as this one (doesn't yet) | 17:06 |
| kerio | yeah, so Pali should step forward and say "ok, this is how you load/unload the injection drivers" | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so the "API'" should stay stable | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 17:07 |
| kerio | if eventually we decide injection doesn't need loading anymore, just make those noops for two or three KP versions, marked deprecated, and then remove the script, i s'pose | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and cleven needs fix to use that method | 17:08 |
| kerio | yep | 17:08 |
| kerio | i'm still not sure why we can't use the cool drivers for everything, though :( | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lxp said they might miss bugfixes | 17:08 |
| kerio | hm :( | 17:09 |
| kerio | are the stock modules closed-source? | 17:09 |
| kerio | i mean, the proper nokia ones | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd just be a brave user and make a noop of the unloading script, and test the tweaked wifi drivers for 'normal' use several weeks. after some users done that, we might consider them "stable" enough for replacing the original ones | 17:11 |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, both normal (in /lib) & packet injection (in /opt) | 17:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: do you do switching via placklisting? | 17:15 |
| Pali | I have loaded packet injection 2 days, but it drain battery | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | black* | 17:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | :-( | 17:15 |
| Pali | so packet injection are usefull only for hacking... for normal use is better stock wifi driver | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I seem to recall that's been a major problem with those wifi drivers since pr1.0 | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the problem is the wifi chip firmware doesn't support proper low power / shutdown mode | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc | 17:18 |
| Pali | swicthing is done via rmmod & insmod /full/path | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so the chip is always in scan mode | 17:18 |
| Pali | maybe some iwconfig/iw command can fix it? | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some time back during pr1.1 or so we had a botch for this problem by unloading the drivers for the time ICD2 didn't scan for AP | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (iw coomand) possible, or even rfkill | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I actually think Nokia implemented a patch to the wlan drivers to cope with that | 17:21 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: different colors would be useful... now it is steady but emergency charging^^ | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: ECHAN, but yes, steady also means "charging finished" | 17:24 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: just recognized... | 17:25 |
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| Pali | ping lxp | 17:44 |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, maybe this patch helps: http://git.popipo.fr/?p=rt2x00.git;a=commitdiff_plain;h=ab13315af97919fae0e014748105fdc2e30afb2d | 17:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: this patch sure isn't bad, but I don't think it helps with massive powerdrain during wlan not associated to AP | 18:10 |
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| Pali | maybe rebasing lxp patches on top of wireless-testing will help | 18:11 |
| kerio | is there a way to just add packet injection to the current drivers? | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: good plan I guess | 18:14 |
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| jean_brat | all devices of same platform like N97 had micro USB charging problem or is it the only N900? | 19:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | jean_brat: hmm? | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | n97 is not same platform as n900 | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | n900 has no USB charging problems, not really | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | n900 has *flashing* problems when battery low | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and n900 (like basically any arbitrary other device) won't charge (properly) with messed up software/firmware | 19:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so you can find yourself in a deadlock beween device not charging low battery due to messed firmware, and device not flashing proper firmware due to low battery | 19:18 |
| edheldil | is there a way from the deadlock? | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | other than that, no charging problems known with N900 | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, edheldil. get a charged battery ;-D | 19:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | as, you know... N900 you can swap battery | 19:20 |
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| edheldil | hehe, you are right | 19:20 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, isn't the emergency charging supposed to fix that problem? | 19:33 |
| kerio | ~ish | 19:33 |
| kerio | nononono | 19:33 |
| kerio | infobot: don't you dare | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | emergency charging charges up to 3.7V only, for safety reasons | 19:34 |
| kerio | isn't that high enough to flash? | 19:34 |
| kerio | let's say everything is completely messed up | 19:34 |
| kerio | isn't that high enough to coldflash? | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after that the main system is supposed to come up and support charging, if only by telling the charger "no go on, til 4.2" | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now* | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas, according to Nokia's eternal wisdom, that's enough for starting NOLO but not enough to allow NOLO to enter flashing mode | 19:35 |
| kerio | hahaha nice | 19:35 |
| kerio | i thought coldflashing was less finicky | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can tell by "NOKIA" screen not showing USB icon upper right despite you holding "u" | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, coldflashing means "ROMBL loads NOLO to RAM" it does that unconditionally. NFC what the NOLO in RAM will do then | 19:37 |
| kerio | hm | 19:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | My guess though would be: it acts exactly as screwed as the NAND-based NOLO | 19:38 |
| kerio | so you *can* completely bork it | 19:38 |
| kerio | i see | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | screwed here means: when NOLO detects battery is low, it doesn't allow flashing and rather tries to boot to linux, to start proper charging :o) | 19:39 |
| kerio | is NOLO flashable? | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | trying to charge when battery is critically low for flashing is a sane idea... if only NOLO wouldn't rely on linux/rootfs for charging | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure is NOLO flashable. That's what coldflashing is all about | 19:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but alas NOLO is closed source, so we couldn't fix this annoyance, even if we wanted to | 19:41 |
| kerio | isn't flashing like, *really* fast? | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eh? | 19:42 |
| kerio | i mean, how much battery do you actually need for it? | 19:42 |
| kerio | flashing combined+vanilla never took long, here | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that much indeed | 19:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | on N9 NOLO learnt to charge | 19:43 |
| kerio | aww, i'm so proud :') | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-P | 19:43 |
| kerio | is the NOLO closedness enforced? | 19:43 |
| kerio | or it's just that nobody wants to dick around with it because you risk a brick? | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask Nokia | 19:44 |
| kerio | i mean, *could* you flash something else there? | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you could | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually people did | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NOLO with tweaked splashscreen | 19:46 |
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| kerio | hehe, i want someone to write a NOLO replacement called YOLO | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not eager to hexedit a charger routine into NOLO binary | 19:46 |
| kerio | just to piss people off | 19:47 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to flash NOLO that doesn't involve running it? | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errr wut? | 19:48 |
| kerio | say, a way to unbrick a botched NOLO | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ==coldflashing | 19:48 |
| kerio | you just said that it runs NOLO | 19:48 |
| kerio | after loading it in ram | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it loads a secondary NOLO from USB to RAM, to flash the primary NOLO to NAND | 19:48 |
| kerio | oic | 19:49 |
| kerio | easy, then :3 | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since yu see you need coldflashing to recover borked NOLO only, you can also see how rarely anybody ruined his NOLO | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and usually the recommendation "try coldflashing" is mere BS | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | given by fools who don't undertand what coldflashing does | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski and me discussed to load an alternative "charging NOLOfake" to RAM, to recover from flatbat deadlock | 19:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | feasible but nobody wanna take the duty | 19:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | not even when people would buy that piece of software rather than an external battery charger, for same price | 19:54 |
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| jean_brat | lose USB port issue i mean | 20:26 |
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| jean_brat | DocScrutinizer, to make n900 as host for usb devices F and F converter is the only way.. | 20:39 |
| jean_brat | ? | 20:39 |
| jean_brat | is there any other method ? to accomplish this? | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the only reasonable waxy | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you find a readymade adapter from micro-B-USB-Male to USB-A-Female | 20:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | something rather hard to find, unless you rework a N8 OTG adapter, or a Samsung adapter may fit I heard | 20:41 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile: Microsoft Kills Windows Gadgets Via Security Update | 20:41 |
| * RST38h RTOFLs | 20:41 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | most sane thing they ever did ;-P | 20:42 |
| Gh0sty | F and F connector works fine | 20:43 |
| Gh0sty | order it at dealextreme | 20:43 |
| Gh0sty | costs you a couple of dollar and free shipping | 20:43 |
| Gh0sty | RST38h: link? | 20:44 |
| RST38h | http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/07/microsoft-fix-kills-windows-gadgets/ | 20:44 |
| RST38h | Doc: I just hope they will continue the trend and kill more stuff in Windows | 20:45 |
| RST38h | UAC is in front of my mental line | 20:45 |
| jean_brat | got a link? | 20:46 |
| jean_brat | Gh0sty, got a link for USB F&F ? | 20:48 |
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| jean_brat | holy crap..i can buy a 500GB hdd for the price of this converter | 20:52 |
| jean_brat | in my country | 20:52 |
| jean_brat | i think i should make my own | 20:52 |
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| Gh0sty | http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-female-to-female-adapters-pair-106349?item=12 | 20:54 |
| Gh0sty | for example | 20:55 |
| Gh0sty | 2 for 2.20 dollar | 20:55 |
| Gh0sty | http://www.dealextreme.com/p/micro-5pin-to-usb-female-otg-data-cable-black-129671?item=38 | 20:55 |
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| Gh0sty | this could also be an option if it works ... | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jean_brat: where do you buy your 500GB disks? | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm temped to get 100 there | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 50TB \o/ | 21:00 |
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| jean_brat | ebay shows 140$ since its imported from america | 21:02 |
| jean_brat | wtf | 21:02 |
| jean_brat | for a simple F&F converter? | 21:02 |
| ShadowJK | imported from america = $139 p&p | 21:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 21:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | jean_brat: where do you live? Iran? North Corea? France? | 21:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Barzil? Kuba? | 21:10 |
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| japh | yes | 21:10 |
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| jean_brat | indai | 21:10 |
| jean_brat | india | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tztztz | 21:10 |
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| jean_brat | i can get n900 for 214$ ..lol un officially | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so maybe the dealextreme one is cheaper for you? | 21:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or simply try your local flavour of fleaBay | 21:12 |
| jean_brat | got a link? | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dealextreme? see ghosty ^^^ | 21:13 |
| jean_brat | cool | 21:14 |
| jean_brat | do they ship to asia? | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now is http://www.dealextreme.com/p/easycap-usb-video-capture-adapter-5707 TAHT cheap? or what? | 21:15 |
| ShadowJK | dx claims to ship everywhere | 21:17 |
| ShadowJK | Ultimtely it's probably down to the reliability of the post system in the destination country. I've heard argentina and russia have high loss rates | 21:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Argentina. I forgot Argentina in my list | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Werner almesberger told stories that resembled those of MohammadAG or RST38h | 21:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | seems recently they did (or considered to) forbid import of anything | 21:21 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 gest a sudden unsolicited attack of nausea about this KDE theme | 21:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gets* | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | grey in grey, with grey specular lights | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | active widows clearly marked by grey titlebar | 21:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | windows even | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | grey systrey with light grey icons and WAAAH one red | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unbearable | 21:27 |
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| jean_brat | USB M to F converters cables are quite cheap .. less then a doller | 21:35 |
| Sicelo | where do you live jean_brat? | 21:36 |
| jean_brat | if strip the male end and can solder the F port from an old motherboard | 21:37 |
| jean_brat | should work? | 21:37 |
| jean_brat | brb | 21:39 |
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| Sicelo | yeah, if you connect them correctly | 21:39 |
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| Timmy | can i enable compcache on a bfs kernel? | 21:41 |
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| Raimu | I thought the BFS Kernel development was aborted. | 21:57 |
| Raimu | On n900, that is. | 21:57 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer05: i think there is some work being done on uboot replacing nolo completly | 22:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd be cautious with such things | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as much as I'd like to see uBoot doing proper flashing, I'm not holding my breath | 22:05 |
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| jacekowski | not flashing | 22:10 |
| jacekowski | just replacing nolo as bootloader | 22:10 |
| jacekowski | flashing would still be done via nolo and coldflash | 22:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | reallyreplacing as bootloader means no more flashing | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except via coldflashing which afaik can only do NOLO flashing | 22:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | rather make a uBoot-image to "coldflash" aka ramload, which comes with a charger script | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or tweak NOLO so it loads from mtd4: 00200000 00020000 "initfs" rather than mtd3: 00200000 00020000 "kernel", only fall back to the latter if in mtd4 there's no useful image to loads and start | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this way you have a whole partition for a chainloaded uBoot | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even for a minimalistic linux initrd to do all sorts of fancy stuff | 22:26 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: where's the coldflashing NOLO stored? | 22:49 |
| kerio | on a ROM? | 22:49 |
| vi__ | Pali: ping | 23:00 |
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| Pali | vi__, pong | 23:08 |
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| Pali | kerio, when coldflashing, OMAP bootrom will get boot image via usb to RAM and start it. that image (2nd) will wait for next image (nolo) via usb from flasher, flash it into nand bootloader area and boot it | 23:10 |
| Pali | so coldflashing will flash nolo into nand bootloader area | 23:11 |
| Pali | without working nolo in nand | 23:11 |
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| vi__ | Pali: love your work. I owe you a pizza. Do you have a paypal account? | 23:14 |
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| jacekowski | kerio: it's stored on PC hard drive | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | kerio: and downloaded to n900 via usb to n900 ram | 23:15 |
| vi__ | or maybe you will email me your address and I will order one to your house? | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | kerio: and executed from there | 23:15 |
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| Pali | vi__, I do not have paypal account | 23:34 |
| Sicelo | side question (because i can't think of anyone else to turn to) .. do you think a project to build up a whois server for a given TLD is an overly big undertaking? do you know any channels I can join to get more info on the subject? | 23:35 |
| Sicelo | vi__: agreed. Pali is the MAN. \m/ | 23:35 |
| Pali | vi__, but you can order me a pizza from italy to home in slovakia :-) | 23:35 |
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| vi__ | Italy? I do not live in italy. However, if you paste me a link to a pizza delivery website AND your address AND your preferance of topping I will ensure it is done. | 23:40 |
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