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| zeq | _freemangordon: ping | 00:31 |
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| kerio | where can i install chromium? and is it worth it? | 01:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | I vaguely recall ther was an install f chromium, but it got pulled for lawyer-based reasons. | 01:24 |
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| MrPingu | http://jacekowski.org/Maemo/Chromium | 01:26 |
| MrPingu | Never tried it though | 01:26 |
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| MrPingu | I used only Estel_ 's easy debian image with chromium, but I wasn't pleased with the performance | 01:27 |
| MrPingu | Wanted to try on a dedicated partition but never got to it ;) | 01:27 |
| Macer | back to melting solder | 01:28 |
| Macer | blah | 01:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | have fun! | 01:43 |
| user__ | kerio: just wait for zeq&FMG fennec port. | 01:44 |
| user__ | it will melt your balls. | 01:44 |
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| MrPingu | Can't wait ^^ | 01:45 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 eats that 4.3GB .xsession-errors, and burps | 01:48 | |
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| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: lol wut? | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you know why you got a separate /home partition when df -h /home shows ZERO bytes free | 01:49 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: I have a seperate /home because I have a habit of osing everything by messing with dumb stuff. | 01:50 |
| vi_ | ^hosing | 01:51 |
| vi_ | Now, who wants to try my latest attempt at configuring the n900 vm? | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure I need more storage related excitement/susoense today | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | suspense* | 01:53 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: its not for you doc. | 01:54 |
| vi_ | it 15 2 1337 4u | 01:55 |
| Macer | oh yeah.... | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 01:55 |
| Macer | these caps are getting easier and easier | 01:55 |
| Macer | once i got practice on a few of them heh | 01:55 |
| vi_ | caps | 01:55 |
| Macer | yeah.. have 4/18 off.. but the 1st one took 20mins to get a feel for.. 2nd took 5.. now they're coming out 3mins per :) | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usual | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even after 40 years of doing it | 01:56 |
| Macer | yeah well.. this isn't really my thing.. but the getting them out seems like the difficult part | 01:57 |
| Macer | now i am pulling them out with clear holes ;) | 01:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hope you don't pull out the vias with them caps | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're absolutely right about the difficult part though - soldering the new parts it mere fun after it | 02:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | which I honestly hope you do immediately after removing old cap, as otherwise odds might be you forget the right side for plus | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and hell THAT would be a pity to solder one of the new good caps on the board the wrong way round | 02:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Preheat. | 02:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Almost always a good idea | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, a bit | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though I always found a proper really hot iron serves all purpose here | 02:15 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 still shudders thinking about a 4.3GB errorlog file | 02:17 | |
| SpeedEvil | Lead-free can make preheat almost mandatory | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why is that? | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | higher temps | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, turn up your soldering iron temp | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still not hot enough? turn it still higher | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | multiple ground planes. | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | higher! higher! | 02:21 |
| RST38h | Doc: doing termorectal cryptoanalysis? | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since copper, unlike tin and lead, is a really good thermal conductor, and wires of components are usually massive copper and length of solder joint not much longer than diameter of wires, it's usually possible to heat the copper wire of component so much that solder melts on surface of wire before the heat reaches the ground planes | 02:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | might not work on good massive vias ~ the diameter of the wire of components, connected to multiple massive ground planes | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then you actually might need some preheating | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though... aq proper PCB layout is using termal insulation of vias from ground planes | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for that very reason | 02:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you frequently see those X-shaped "bridges" from small pad with via to the groundplane land around it | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on all stuff that's not built by reflow | 02:36 |
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| RiD | ~xchat | 03:11 |
| infobot | from memory, xchat is an IRC client for unix and windows at http://www.xchat.org or http://www.silverex.org/news/ | 03:11 |
| RiD | what was the custom xchat config? | 03:11 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer05, hello x-p | 03:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrxchat | 03:27 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, jrxchat is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/ | 03:27 |
| RiD | that's it! thank you | 03:27 |
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| RiD | DocScrutinizer05 everything went nice. Your keybindings seem corrupted though | 03:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ummm | 04:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | On a random note. | 04:04 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer05 could you send me your keybinds file? :S | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | The nokia wired headset survives a 40C wash cycle. | 04:04 |
| RiD | nice. | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 04:04 |
| RiD | now try the phone | 04:05 |
| SpeedEvil | RiD: I think not :) | 04:05 |
| RiD | it smells good, doesn't it? | 04:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/keybindings.conf | 04:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: what's been corrupted? | 04:22 |
| RiD | the keybinds file lol | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: seems there are some non-printing chars in first version of that page | 04:22 |
| RiD | 2nd one didnt work either :o | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what means "didn't work"? | 04:23 |
| RiD | i paste it in the file and then save it. when i start xchat it says the keybind file is corrupt and doesnt load it | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmm | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc how to proceed | 04:24 |
| RiD | ? | 04:24 |
| RiD | i'm going to sleep. Will take a look at that tomorrow | 04:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, hope that helps now.. | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ctrl-k -> ctrl-c though is obscure to me | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that I ever used ctrl-o or ctrl-b | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if I want to test what those 3 ctrl-chars do to xchat | 04:43 |
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| jpinx | Is there a way to send text messages while connected to my n900 by usb and online via wvdial? I can ssh into the n900.... | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then phonecontrol has the python script for you | 05:06 |
| jpinx | thanks DocScrutinizer05 -- that's just the pointer I needed :) | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS | 05:07 |
| jpinx | saves me goggling :D | 05:08 |
| jpinx | googleing .. even..... | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use third script, it seems the most clean one | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2nd one will most likely not even store the sent SMS to conversations | 05:09 |
| jpinx | ok :) | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc first one needs some libs that aren't installed by default | 05:10 |
| jpinx | I'll come back when I have it installed and tested a few times ;) | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bus = dbus.SystemBus() #should connect to system bus instead of session because the former is where the incoming signals come from | 05:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is a bit strange a comment - why doesn't it use sessionbus then instead of systembus? | 05:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme check what I made of it... | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oops, it actually _does_ connect to systembus, so what's that comment all about? | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and my smscb.py stuff does all the same | 05:29 |
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| LaoLang_cool | Hi, any other replacement for recaller? | 05:39 |
| LaoLang_cool | the quality of rec by recall is very poor | 05:40 |
| jpinx | DocScrutinizer05: thanks for exploring it a bit for me :) | 05:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | recaller indeed could use a major update | 06:26 |
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| jean_brat | hiHi these keys [Shft Fn CTRL Rght Down T] in my n900 keyboard is not workin.. i cleaned my domesheet with petrol and tryied to put it back in.. and cleaned the contacts as well..but still cant figureout the issue.. ironicaly i cant find a new domesheet on ebay or anyother website. i have to fix the existing one. | 10:55 |
| jean_brat | is there any Detailed key matrix picture with respect to Domesheet so that i can figureout which part of my domesheet is broken and manage to fix it? | 10:55 |
| psycho_oreos | could it be a software issue and not a hardware issue? | 10:57 |
| jean_brat | is that possible? | 11:04 |
| jean_brat | some row is discontinued or now been driven high from the domesheet.. but don know where that row make contact with the main supply line on the top of the board | 11:06 |
| jean_brat | *not been driven | 11:06 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm not sure how its electronically wired to be honest.. I'd study the schematics myself | 11:10 |
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| jean_brat | guess i am out of luck | 11:12 |
| psycho_oreos | I wouldn't really rule out that you're out of luck.. you could just be overlooking things if you're lucky | 11:16 |
| jean_brat | what could possibly be wrong. i cleaned up the circles on the board with extreme precision and also the innner side of the domepad.. | 11:19 |
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| jean_brat | don know what i am missing here | 11:19 |
| psycho_oreos | have you tried reflashing? I mean obviously backing up and then reflash | 11:20 |
| jean_brat | yes..there is nothing in my phone now | 11:22 |
| jean_brat | domesheet is pretty fucked up now | 11:23 |
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| jean_brat | after removing it several times | 11:23 |
| psycho_oreos | hmm | 11:24 |
| psycho_oreos | I'd probably stick around till DocScrutinizer is around, he'd probably know how to solve this.. or maybe some people on tmo | 11:27 |
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| japh | I'm fed up with harmattan and its ui now. Would flashing my n950 with the maemo5 n900 images cause obvious issues? | 11:29 |
| jean_brat | thanks psycho_oreos | 11:32 |
| psycho_oreos | japh, most definitely yes | 11:33 |
| japh | :( | 11:33 |
| psycho_oreos | japh, not that flashing to some ancient firmware is supported for starters | 11:33 |
| psycho_oreos | N900 | 11:33 |
| japh | I hate the harmattan ui | 11:33 |
| psycho_oreos | N900's CPU doesn't have hardfp whereas N950/n9 has hardfp for starters as well | 11:34 |
| psycho_oreos | the UI can probably be customised... though you might have to wait for a long while (if ever) :) | 11:34 |
| _freemangordon | zeq: pong | 11:35 |
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| psycho_oreos | jean_brat, I'm also curious to ask, how did you manage to get to the stage where the dome are stuffed? | 11:35 |
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| psycho_oreos | its not because of excessive wear and tear I hope is it? | 11:35 |
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| japh | psycho_oreos, http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/09/forum-view-single-post-cordia-maemo5-ui-top-meego-core-meego | 11:36 |
| japh | but, no :( | 11:36 |
| psycho_oreos | japh, I'm afraid that's not for harmattan :) harmattan still uses deb package management | 11:37 |
| japh | alien(?) | 11:38 |
| japh | oh well. not sure what to do | 11:38 |
| psycho_oreos | and yeah cordia was the thing to bridge that missing link.. though cordia now seems to be on their own specific hardware rather than going through the same area as nokia/harmattan | 11:38 |
| psycho_oreos | japh, I wouldn't recommend that | 11:38 |
| psycho_oreos | maybe source a N900? :) | 11:38 |
| japh | I have n900s but I would really like to have something that I can use on the n950 hw since it's so much better | 11:39 |
| psycho_oreos | harmattan in nokia's sense is more of what they technically called it `meego instance'.. which isn't real meego for instance | 11:39 |
| psycho_oreos | heh I'm afraid you might end up being on your own.. though you may (and only may) find like-minded users in #harmattan however | 11:39 |
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| jean_brat | i had a perfectly working n900, i flashed the latest firmware 1 day with the help of DocScrutinizer after that my phone never booted | 11:46 |
| jean_brat | i gave it to Nokia Service centre. explaining them the issue.. and they almost took 2 months and returned my phone | 11:47 |
| jean_brat | everything worked.. except the keypad. | 11:47 |
| psycho_oreos | uh oh.. | 11:48 |
| psycho_oreos | that ^ was where the problem | 11:48 |
| jean_brat | don know what they did with that.. | 11:48 |
| japh | but I have no issues with the latest firmwares on the n900s | 11:48 |
| japh | I wanted to use maemo5 on my n950 | 11:48 |
| freemangordon | psycho_oreos: N9 and N900 have one and the same CPU ;) | 11:48 |
| jean_brat | hang on.. is it a known firmware issue? | 11:49 |
| psycho_oreos | when did you hand your N900 in to their care centre? | 11:49 |
| jean_brat | its almost 3 months back | 11:49 |
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| Lava_Croft | jean_brat: they will replace it | 11:52 |
| japh | with a samsung | 11:52 |
| Lava_Croft | unless you presure them | 11:52 |
| * japh giggles | 11:52 | |
| Lava_Croft | lumia probably | 11:52 |
| Lava_Croft | they tried N8 on me | 11:52 |
| Lava_Croft | they failed | 11:52 |
| Lava_Croft | i have to bring an N9 in on monday | 11:53 |
| Lava_Croft | they better not replace it:P | 11:53 |
| jean_brat | i still think i can fix it if i get to know the layout of the keypad | 11:54 |
| psycho_oreos | jean_brat, I really doubt its a firmware issue.. if you reflashed it and those set of keys still don't work then it's most likely a hardware issue | 11:55 |
| zeq | freemangordon: I can't stay, busy today, but did you read what I wrote when I got home yesterday? ^ | 11:55 |
| jean_brat | any ways.. bfn.. will be back later when DocScrutinizer is around | 11:56 |
| psycho_oreos | freemangordon, I beg to differ :) same brand and maybe family yes.. but different clock rate and maybe different cpu flags | 11:56 |
| jean_brat | do they still make spares..? of those domesheets? any ways i can get a spare? | 11:56 |
| jean_brat | or buy a spare | 11:56 |
| psycho_oreos | I don't know about domesheets but I have bought keymat from China awhile back.. though you might be able to find spares (though most likely clones) of the N900 hardware | 11:57 |
| jean_brat | :P that will do.. hope they have some clone domesheets | 11:58 |
| psycho_oreos | I know that nokia stopped producing N900 ages ago.. lots of owners tried getting their N900 fixed but they instead get replaced with some other non-linux based crap | 11:58 |
| jean_brat | got a link ? :) | 11:58 |
| psycho_oreos | nope... fleabay | 11:58 |
| Lava_Croft | nokia cant replace N900 yet | 11:58 |
| psycho_oreos | s/cant/won\'t/ | 11:59 |
| Lava_Croft | as long as you are in eu, you have 2y warranty | 11:59 |
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| Lava_Croft | you can happily go to court, as i threatened them | 11:59 |
| doc|home | no, they actually can't. They have no OS and they're too incompetent to do it | 11:59 |
| jean_brat | hmm.. unfortunately i am not :( | 11:59 |
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| Lava_Croft | they can, they got me two back | 11:59 |
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| doc|home | I have an n900 I'm not using | 12:00 |
| Lava_Croft | i have on break software on and one for daily use | 12:00 |
| doc|home | where are you? I'd consider selling it | 12:00 |
| Lava_Croft | one to break* | 12:00 |
| Lava_Croft | jean_brat: look up warranty laws in your country | 12:01 |
| jean_brat | psycho_oreos, where did you find the chinese site selling parts | 12:01 |
| jean_brat | ? | 12:01 |
| japh | doc|home, I'll buy it | 12:01 |
| Lava_Croft | jean_brat: where are you located | 12:01 |
| jean_brat | i am in india fella | 12:01 |
| Lava_Croft | aw | 12:01 |
| Lava_Croft | idk jackshit about laws there | 12:01 |
| doc|home | japh: ping me later in the weekend | 12:02 |
| doc|home | it's 2am here, I need sleep :) | 12:02 |
| japh | alright | 12:02 |
| psycho_oreos | jean_brat, ebay (if you didn't get that fleabay comment). Again I stress I do not know if they sell dome sheets I do know they sold clone N900 (awhile back.. and no.. not genuine N900 nor is it even running maemo) and parts for that cloned (and faked..) N900 | 12:02 |
| jean_brat | its ok.. i am not considering suing nokia.. they are already in enough toruble | 12:02 |
| japh | I'll try to remember your nick | 12:02 |
| psycho_oreos | jean_brat, they need more trouble imo :) | 12:03 |
| psycho_oreos | for loyally screwing their own loyal maemo owner base | 12:03 |
| Lava_Croft | yes burning nokia will certainly help | 12:03 |
| Lava_Croft | right? | 12:03 |
| psycho_oreos | s/burning/obliterating/ | 12:04 |
| Lava_Croft | must be puberty taking over | 12:04 |
| jean_brat | it has to happen eventually..but i never expected 2 years ago android will grow so fast | 12:04 |
| jacekowski | maemo is dead | 12:04 |
| Lava_Croft | all i ever care about is gnu userland on my mobile | 12:05 |
| psycho_oreos | manufacturer-wise jacekowski | 12:05 |
| Lava_Croft | screw the rest of the politics | 12:05 |
| psycho_oreos | community-wise.. maemo is now more or less similar to openmoko | 12:05 |
| jean_brat | TI is all time down.. what you expect from nokia to keep up the competition ? | 12:06 |
| psycho_oreos | jean_brat, they teamed up with microsoft.. does that explain anything? :) | 12:06 |
| jean_brat | yes.. MS pays 1 billian an year to use Windows on its phone for nokia | 12:07 |
| jean_brat | for a company which is not making any revenue its a good decision | 12:08 |
| jean_brat | but MS will backstab soon | 12:08 |
| jean_brat | its in their DNA ;P | 12:08 |
| * psycho_oreos is unsure of exactly how much MS actually paid/pays nokia but is sure that MS was sure enough jealous that n9 sold like hotcakes when there wasn't even much of an advertisement for n9 compared to nokia's lumia range | 12:08 | |
| psycho_oreos | I can't wait for that.. it'll be the death of nokia.. probably | 12:08 |
| Lava_Croft | its great how people think ms is worse than nokia | 12:09 |
| Lava_Croft | or other companies | 12:09 |
| psycho_oreos | hate comes in territories | 12:10 |
| Lava_Croft | hate comes from children | 12:10 |
| Lava_Croft | and people who have the time and space in their sad life to hate a goddamn company | 12:10 |
| psycho_oreos | indeed but that would also imply that politicians are also children | 12:10 |
| jean_brat | fellas.. believe it or not.. Nokia made amazing phones with TI platform which was mostly opensource | 12:10 |
| psycho_oreos | not really | 12:10 |
| Lava_Croft | n900 is awesome, but its a shit phone | 12:11 |
| psycho_oreos | Lava_Croft, its also known as a `bad customer' which literally kills business when there's more than enough | 12:11 |
| Lava_Croft | good computer tho | 12:11 |
| Lava_Croft | politicians rarely hate things | 12:11 |
| psycho_oreos | jean_brat, hintword: was | 12:11 |
| jean_brat | and TI is struggling to keep up the competition | 12:11 |
| psycho_oreos | Lava_Croft, they don't hate, they just incite war | 12:11 |
| psycho_oreos | its called powertripping | 12:12 |
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| Lava_Croft | i think its the other way around | 12:12 |
| psycho_oreos | no | 12:12 |
| Lava_Croft | people always childiishly hate the big companies | 12:12 |
| Lava_Croft | wether its ibm, apple, activision, whatever | 12:12 |
| jean_brat | FYI i worked for MS | 12:13 |
| psycho_oreos | and people always will.. that doesn't necessarily mean that they're children | 12:13 |
| jean_brat | lol | 12:13 |
| Lava_Croft | nokia, ms, etc | 12:13 |
| Lava_Croft | they are | 12:13 |
| psycho_oreos | to you they are | 12:13 |
| psycho_oreos | just like politicians | 12:13 |
| Lava_Croft | to anyone with a bit of common sense too | 12:13 |
| Lava_Croft | but common sense mixes really bad with open source communities | 12:13 |
| psycho_oreos | more like to anyone who's been smoking god knows what | 12:13 |
| Lava_Croft | fact of life | 12:13 |
| jean_brat | don know about that.. but i respect nokia in replace BL5C voluntary with the issue was found | 12:14 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah and inherently you've just mocked richard stallman.. good job | 12:14 |
| Lava_Croft | stallman ol | 12:14 |
| zeq | Lava_Croft: you seem to have a rather simplistic view of human psychology (no offense intended.) | 12:14 |
| Lava_Croft | lolololol | 12:14 |
| NIN101 | #trollemo | 12:14 |
| psycho_oreos | jean_brat, what about the microUSB issue on N900? | 12:14 |
| Lava_Croft | stallman is the worst advertisement for foss ever | 12:14 |
| Lava_Croft | come on now | 12:14 |
| jean_brat | ya.. its pathetic | 12:15 |
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| psycho_oreos | jean_brat, rather.. how nokia responded *initially* to that | 12:15 |
| zeq | We're social animals, our forming of communities, necessitates that we see threats to that community as a person affront. It incites strong emotional response, if it didn't we wouldn't be here discussing this. | 12:16 |
| jean_brat | brb | 12:17 |
| * psycho_oreos would love to see when Lava_Croft gets done in by some bad business practise.. `oh lets not sue/hate them or else I'll be seen as a child!' | 12:17 | |
| psycho_oreos | zeq, lets not forget there's a huge base of such examples *points to apple fan base* | 12:18 |
| Lava_Croft | companies are companies and will be companies | 12:20 |
| psycho_oreos | and those antitrust laws existed worldwide are `childlish-motives' | 12:21 |
| Lava_Croft | any amazement over being sodomized by a company is bordering stupidity | 12:21 |
| Lava_Croft | be it ms, be it nokia | 12:21 |
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| japh | mm finaly it seems I can get somewhere with the flashing | 12:26 |
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| japh | while true; do modprobe -r cdc_phonet phonet; ./Linux_OCF_02-6_RM680-RM680-OEM1.bin; sleep .1; done | 12:26 |
| * japh grins | 12:26 | |
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| psycho_oreos | or you could just temporarily blacklist those modules | 12:26 |
| japh | blacklisting means I'll have to unblacklist them | 12:27 |
| japh | effort :) | 12:27 |
| psycho_oreos | or you could really hack up a simple script that'll do it | 12:27 |
| psycho_oreos | maybe a flasher `wrapper' tool | 12:27 |
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| user | hi there!cant connect to msn with pecam.could somebody help me? | 12:42 |
| psycho_oreos | is that the messages based plugin thingy? have you tried that other one? | 12:46 |
| psycho_oreos | and you meant pecan? iirc there were two variations, one is hazel and the other is pecan | 12:46 |
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| user | it is a plugin for conversations | 12:48 |
| psycho_oreos | ahhh yeah that too, well there's two different plugins for msn, one was pecan and the other was hazel | 12:49 |
| user | i would like to connect to msn from contacts | 12:49 |
| user | pecan doesnt work | 12:49 |
| psycho_oreos | have you tried the other one? I recall one of them was based on an older method of connecting | 12:49 |
| user | i going to try it | 12:50 |
| user | thank you | 12:52 |
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| qwazix_900 | japh: I also want maemo5 ui on the N950 and I'm working on it. If you have any experience with hildon-desktop your help is welcome | 12:53 |
| qwazix_900 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84987 | 12:54 |
| qwazix_900 | Later today I will try to document the situation as detailed as possible and reach out for help in any possible direction | 12:55 |
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| japh | qwazix_900, awesome!! | 13:21 |
| japh | I assume qwazix on github is you, is the current situtation as far as code goes not public? | 13:22 |
| Hurrian | anyone know villa's email address? | 13:22 |
| Hurrian | *ville | 13:22 |
| freemangordon | zeq: ok, i'll clone again | 13:24 |
| Hurrian | freemangordon, have you got your device? | 13:25 |
| freemangordon | Hurrian: no | 13:25 |
| Hurrian | no word from DHL too? | 13:25 |
| freemangordon | no | 13:25 |
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| qwazix_900 | japh: qwazix on github is me but there is no code. I'm trying to make hildon desktop from maemo work on harmattan, as is. | 13:42 |
| japh | okay | 13:42 |
| qwazix_900 | Any modifications will of course be published but till now I only have modified some makefiles and configure scripts | 13:43 |
| qwazix_900 | hildon is the version from cordia, because the guys there have made enough modifications to remove maemo specific dependencies | 13:44 |
| japh | qwazix_900, is your fingers also incompatible with the horrible harmattan swipe ui? | 13:44 |
| japh | aha | 13:44 |
| qwazix_900 | japh: No, I like swipe ui. I'm doing it more to be able to run the abundance of quality apps in maemo extras | 13:45 |
| qwazix_900 | also N950's awesome kb is being wasted with the slab-oriented harmattan ui | 13:46 |
| japh | hehe I think I'm the only one whose fingers doesn't work with it | 13:46 |
| japh | yes, yes, indeed | 13:46 |
| qwazix_900 | If this project goes forward we'll have ourselves a real mamemo 6 | 13:48 |
| qwazix_900 | s/mamemo/maemo | 13:48 |
| qwazix_900 | I also need someone to take on gtk-doc on harmattan as maemo gtk depends on it and I have been hacking ./configure scripts to get past it, which isn't the most elegant of solutions | 13:50 |
| japh | pure docs? I'm sorry but I have a very limited experience with gui stuff in general | 13:52 |
| qwazix_900 | gtk-doc is a package which I assume handles documentation | 13:55 |
| qwazix_900 | normally you can specify a configure flag to build without it but maemo-gtk ignores it | 13:55 |
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| japh | not sure why that's a dependency when everything else documentation wise is instantly purged | 13:56 |
| qwazix_900 | I tried to build gtk-doc on harmattan but entered into a dependency labyrinth | 13:56 |
| jipiese | anybody know if you can switch from cssu-stable to testing? | 13:56 |
| qwazix_900 | it shouldn't be, and it isn't on upstream gtk. It's a specific maemo bug | 13:57 |
| japh | qwazix_900, I'll read up on this scratchbox business and hopefully I can help investing next week | 13:57 |
| qwazix_900 | so we need either fix the bug or build gtk-doc | 13:57 |
| japh | mm reminds me of a bug I ran in to when having built gtk but having no icon files | 13:58 |
| qwazix_900 | japh: I'll be glad to have a helping hand :) | 13:58 |
| qwazix_900 | fortunately harmattan scratchbox is a breeze to install | 13:59 |
| qwazix_900 | unfortunately there are far less libs/apps on harmattan repos | 14:00 |
| qwazix_900 | even git is missing | 14:00 |
| japh | I think I found it in some of the repos listed on the wiki | 14:00 |
| japh | or maybe that was on my n900 | 14:01 |
| qwazix_900 | I've been cloning using ubuntu git outside of scratchbox | 14:01 |
| qwazix_900 | maybe, didn't search community repos | 14:01 |
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| qwazix_900 | it's there on the N900 though | 14:03 |
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| iluminator105 | what do you guys suggest for long term support since the standard shipped one is pretty much obselete | 14:17 |
| Sicelo | what is? | 14:19 |
| iluminator105 | the n900 shipped kernel/os | 14:20 |
| iluminator105 | i used the community edition but until it stopped upgrading | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | iluminator105: I suggest you start a new company that is dedicated to offering 512M RAM upgrades for the n900, and producing a better software stack. | 14:21 |
| ShadowJK | 1 gig | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | I couldn't find info that the compatible 1G part had actually been made | 14:21 |
| iluminator105 | SpeedEvil, that is actually a brillant idea | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | And it would have required hackiness, as it had no flash. | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm not sure teh n900 would actually boot from EMMC/SD with no onboard flash. | 14:22 |
| iluminator105 | is there like a long term support newer kernel | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 14:23 |
| iluminator105 | i guess i could upgrade to meego but thats not the best option | 14:23 |
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| NIN101 | for maemo 5 we need to live with 2.6.28.* | 14:24 |
| iluminator105 | is there like a centos for n900 | 14:24 |
| Sicelo | there is an actively-developed Ubuntu | 14:24 |
| NIN101 | not that I am aware of, there other distris. Most of them fail when it comes to phone functions. | 14:25 |
| NIN101 | active developed but wasting time with getting it to play together with u-boot instead of focusing on relevant things. | 14:27 |
| iluminator105 | is there like a commercial grade replacement for maemo | 14:28 |
| qwazix_900 | NIN101: there is no other way to play if you want to move on from the maemo kernel | 14:30 |
| qwazix_900 | and IIRC ubuntu now plays with 2.6.37 if not newer | 14:30 |
| NIN101 | you don't need u-boot for that | 14:30 |
| qwazix_900 | you do except if you want to flash that kernel permanently and lose maemo | 14:36 |
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| qwazix_900 | multiboot is just not an option | 14:36 |
| qwazix_900 | it should be killed with fire | 14:36 |
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| NIN101 | there is a way to load the kernel without flashing anything | 14:37 |
| qwazix_900 | using flasher from your pc. | 14:37 |
| qwazix_900 | not the most optimal solution | 14:37 |
| NIN101 | which should be sufficient. It of course isn't possible when you are in RL, but tell me you boot into ubuntu when you are out there in the real world... | 14:37 |
| qwazix_900 | i would happily do | 14:38 |
| qwazix_900 | I just didn't get around to install it again after the morons at nokia care reflashed my N900 | 14:38 |
| qwazix_900 | as I was using e-d regularly | 14:39 |
| qwazix_900 | I just need 3G data but that ought to be working by now | 14:40 |
| qwazix_900 | wtf? battery low. I was >50% 1 hour ago | 14:42 |
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| kerio | jean_brat: on the maemo.org wiki there were some technical specs for the keyboard | 14:49 |
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| Estel_ | wow, have You heard about Jolla project? | 15:02 |
| Estel_ | it's really exciting to hear that they will manufacture new devices with Mer. | 15:02 |
| Estel_ | see: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1233345#post1233345 | 15:03 |
| Estel_ | I can't wait to see first device :) | 15:03 |
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| StyXman | I'me pretty sure you already readyhis, but anyways: http://thehandheldblog.com/2012/07/07/jolla-meego-ex-nokia/ | 15:30 |
| Lava_Croft | i dont want Mer | 15:31 |
| Venemo_N9 | yep | 15:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, they don't have the rights to Nokia's proprietary stuff. | 15:32 |
| Venemo_N9 | they might. | 15:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm just happy the idea of an open source mobile device isn't completely dead. | 15:33 |
| Venemo_N9 | :) | 15:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | 'Cause, you know, Mer > *. | 15:33 |
| kerio | what the hell | 15:33 |
| kerio | wiki.merproject.org forcibly redirects you to the https version | 15:34 |
| kerio | but the certificate is self-signed | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | it is | 15:34 |
| kerio | yay for completely defeating the point | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | not really, some kind of ssl is better than not | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | we have not shelled out for a certificate as we keep a low budget | 15:34 |
| kerio | Stskeeps: startssl.com | 15:34 |
| kerio | free class 2 certs | 15:35 |
| kerio | and it's a wiki | 15:36 |
| kerio | you don't need encryption to read public web pages | 15:36 |
| Stskeeps | that is true | 15:37 |
| * Stskeeps files a bug | 15:37 | |
| kerio | https is for encryption and verification - you guys don't need the first, and the second fails because it's a self-signed certificate | 15:37 |
| kerio | mind you, CA certs have a load of problems | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | we do need the first though, we use a common login across them all | 15:38 |
| kerio | but there isn't a good alternative, really | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | but for anonymous viewing.. that's trrue | 15:38 |
| kerio | Stskeeps: yeah but i can't be sure someone isn't MITMing me | 15:38 |
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| lohn | can I ask an n900 question | 16:09 |
| lohn | ? | 16:09 |
| NIN101 | sure | 16:09 |
| qwazix_ | go ahead | 16:09 |
| lohn | okay | 16:09 |
| lohn | so I deleted the kernel... | 16:09 |
| lohn | I am a moron, so let get past that | 16:09 |
| lohn | now, when I plug my phone it, it keeps trying to reboot, but never gets past the nokia screen | 16:10 |
| lohn | trying to flash, computer doesn't recognize | 16:10 |
| lohn | am I screwed? | 16:10 |
| qwazix_ | what do you mean deleted the kernel? | 16:10 |
| qwazix_ | kernel is flashed to nand | 16:11 |
| qwazix_ | I am not aware of a way to delete it unless you flash garbage over it | 16:11 |
| lohn | as in removed linux kernel for power user from application manager | 16:11 |
| lohn | via | 16:11 |
| qwazix_ | ah, ok let's see | 16:11 |
| qwazix_ | fact is that you're not missing a kernel, just some supporting packages, but your N900 should be recognized by pc | 16:12 |
| lohn | maybe the problem was that I was on linux? | 16:12 |
| Lava_Croft | that is usually causing LESS problems with flashing | 16:12 |
| lohn | I did lsusb, and the device did not even show up | 16:13 |
| qwazix_ | did you issue the flasher command as root? | 16:13 |
| lohn | yes | 16:13 |
| qwazix_ | ok let me think | 16:13 |
| kerio | lohn: are you sure that your removal of the kernel is what caused the problem? | 16:13 |
| kerio | because removing kernel-power-installer won't reflash the old kernel | 16:13 |
| lohn | i guess not? | 16:13 |
| kerio | in fact, there's no way to do so without internet, because the stock kernel isn't saved anywhere on the device | 16:14 |
| qwazix_ | btw I have flashed the N900 from linux many times that is definitely not the problem | 16:14 |
| kerio | it has to download the stock kernel to flash it | 16:14 |
| kerio | lohn: were you able to flash your n900 in the past? | 16:14 |
| lohn | no | 16:14 |
| lohn | I had tried, but was on 32 bit | 16:14 |
| kerio | is your microusb port working? | 16:14 |
| lohn | how would I know? | 16:15 |
| kerio | did it charge, before? | 16:15 |
| lohn | it had worked before.. | 16:15 |
| Lava_Croft | is your battery charged enough | 16:15 |
| lohn | well it keeps turning on and off, won't even charge really | 16:15 |
| Lava_Croft | does the N900 show the USB icon when you boot it with 'u' pressed | 16:15 |
| lohn | for like 5 seconds | 16:15 |
| Lava_Croft | n900 cant charge without being in maemo | 16:15 |
| Lava_Croft | iirc | 16:15 |
| qwazix_ | Lava_Croft, correct | 16:15 |
| Lava_Croft | i experienced that first hand | 16:16 |
| Lava_Croft | <3 my DT-33 external charger | 16:16 |
| Lava_Croft | and 4 batteries | 16:16 |
| qwazix_ | lohn, do you have any other recent nokia smartphone (recent as in ~4 years) | 16:16 |
| lohn | no, unfortunately | 16:16 |
| NIN101 | well, there is emergency recharge, but afaik won't kick in if there is a reboot loop or something... | 16:16 |
| Lava_Croft | best bet is getting DT-33 | 16:16 |
| Lava_Croft | its not that expensive, and it charges more than just the BL5J | 16:17 |
| kerio | Lava_Croft: :O i want one | 16:17 |
| Lava_Croft | but im not really sure that its problem | 16:17 |
| Lava_Croft | its his* | 16:17 |
| lohn | so the non recognize issue is related to power? | 16:17 |
| kerio | lohn: no, but it's the same port | 16:17 |
| qwazix_ | or find a friend with a recent nokia smartphone and use it to charge your battery | 16:17 |
| kerio | well | 16:17 |
| kerio | if the battery is low enough, it won't boot correctly | 16:17 |
| kerio | was the battery charged? | 16:17 |
| qwazix_ | 5800, X6 or N97 would be best (same battery) | 16:17 |
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| Lava_Croft | you can flash with a relatively low battery tho | 16:18 |
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| lohn | every once and a while, it will boot up with green text across the top of the nokia logo, saying "device malfunctioning, will shut down in 10s" | 16:18 |
| lohn | not boot up, but start up | 16:18 |
| Lava_Croft | lohn: you only have linux computers there? | 16:18 |
| lohn | yeah | 16:18 |
| qwazix_ | but even with a slightly different model (E90, E52, N810) you will be able to contact the battery to the charging contacts good enough to charge it a bit | 16:18 |
| NIN101 | lohn: that's the first I ever hear baout something like that on the N900. | 16:18 |
| kerio | qwazix_: NO | 16:18 |
| kerio | just no | 16:18 |
| Lava_Croft | it boots itself? | 16:18 |
| Lava_Croft | or do you boot it | 16:18 |
| Lava_Croft | the first sounds scary | 16:18 |
| NIN101 | the green "device malfunctioning"-message. | 16:19 |
| qwazix_ | kerio, why? | 16:19 |
| kerio | qwazix_: repeat after me: "i won't fuck around with lithium batteries" | 16:19 |
| Lava_Croft | NIN101: yes | 16:19 |
| Lava_Croft | never saw it | 16:19 |
| Lava_Croft | or read about it | 16:19 |
| qwazix_ | yesterday we saved a N900 by charging a battery in a E90 | 16:19 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 16:19 |
| lohn | how's this, how about I just send it to one of you guys | 16:20 |
| lohn | if you get it figured out, great | 16:20 |
| qwazix_ | They have the same voltage. As long as you don't leave it to fully charge there should be no problem | 16:20 |
| lohn | if not, then it doesn't really matter anyway | 16:20 |
| lohn | haha | 16:20 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 16:20 |
| qwazix_ | it's like the dualscud hack | 16:20 |
| lohn | I will pay in bitcoin :D | 16:20 |
| qwazix_ | bigger capacity, same voltage | 16:20 |
| qwazix_ | no problem | 16:20 |
| Lava_Croft | lohn: can always try to get help on the forums | 16:21 |
| Lava_Croft | post your problem there, see what happens:| | 16:21 |
| lohn | ok | 16:21 |
| lohn | unfortunately, it looks like maemo is dying | 16:21 |
| Lava_Croft | from the nokia side, its been dead for a while | 16:21 |
| Lava_Croft | but there's still users | 16:21 |
| kerio | lohn: there's still an active community | 16:22 |
| Lava_Croft | and as long as there are devices to run maemo on, there will be users that use it | 16:22 |
| lohn | can you guys think of anything that might be potentially wrong? | 16:22 |
| lohn | at what point, are you pretty much up the crick without a paddle? | 16:22 |
| qwazix_ | lohn, it's possibly a flat battery, but otherwise you could try a cold flash | 16:23 |
| kerio | "We'll always have CSSU" - Rick Blaine (Humphrey Bogart) | 16:23 |
| qwazix_ | ~cold flash | 16:23 |
| kerio | ~coldflash | 16:23 |
| infobot | methinks coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing | 16:23 |
| lohn | so, granted the battery is not dead, it should be recognized by the computer? | 16:24 |
| kerio | lohn: what did you do with your n900? | 16:25 |
| lohn | its laying around | 16:25 |
| kerio | i mean before the troubles | 16:25 |
| lohn | I was on FAP | 16:25 |
| lohn | deleting crap | 16:25 |
| kerio | oh boy | 16:25 |
| lohn | including FAP | 16:25 |
| lohn | I have no idea why | 16:25 |
| lohn | maybe part of me wanted to see what would happen if I tottaly messed stuff up | 16:25 |
| kerio | http://anongallery.org/img/4/1/i-have-no-idea-what-im-doing-dog.jpg ? | 16:26 |
| lohn | yeah, about right | 16:26 |
| kerio | well | 16:26 |
| lohn | interestingly, the phone still worked after that everything was delted | 16:26 |
| kerio | hahaha | 16:27 |
| kerio | until you powered it off and back on? | 16:27 |
| lohn | it was upon rebooting that the problems started | 16:27 |
| lohn | yeah | 16:27 |
| kerio | well, my official diagnosis is that u dun goof'd | 16:27 |
| kerio | lohn: try coldflashing, maybe | 16:27 |
| kerio | but make sure that normal flashing isn't working because of a problem in the n900, and not just your computer | 16:27 |
| kerio | ~flashing | 16:27 |
| infobot | methinks maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 16:27 |
| lohn | okay.. I guess first step is to charge the battery | 16:27 |
| kerio | follow the guides | 16:27 |
| Sicelo | aiui it's very seldom you need coldflashing | 16:28 |
| kerio | lohn: that's always a good idea, but it might not be easy | 16:28 |
| NIN101 | as already that, this probably won't work, but: | 16:28 |
| kerio | do you have access to a compatible phone/charger? | 16:28 |
| NIN101 | ~flatbatrecover | 16:28 |
| infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover | 16:28 |
| kerio | NIN101: hm, what needs to work for that? | 16:28 |
| kerio | just NOLO? | 16:28 |
| lohn | well, thanks for the help guys, I am going to try again | 16:29 |
| lohn | until then, I have a nice 10 year old blackberry | 16:29 |
| NIN101 | I think this may not work in a reboot-loop maemo, but I don't know. | 16:30 |
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| lohn | last question: is this legit? http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOKIA-DT-33-Original-Desktop-Charger-Adapter-Fr-BL-5C-BL-4CT-BL-5B-BL-4S-Battery-/280903820557?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item41672c250d | 16:31 |
| lohn | doesn't look like it | 16:32 |
| Lava_Croft | http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOKIA-DT-33-Original-Desktop-Charger-Adapter-Fr-BL-5C-B | 16:32 |
| Lava_Croft | er | 16:32 |
| Lava_Croft | at least the design is legit | 16:32 |
| Lava_Croft | and dt-33 isnt expensive at all | 16:32 |
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| zeq | freemangordon: ok cool. It is working btw :) | 16:39 |
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| Lava_Croft | need someone who wants to toy around in QML | 16:56 |
| Lava_Croft | need a spin-dial for my n900 | 16:56 |
| Lava_Croft | so i can enter numbers like on my old spin-dial phone! | 16:56 |
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| kerio | i just realized that "Battery" in the status menu is absolutely useless | 17:01 |
| kerio | is there a way to make it more useful? | 17:01 |
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| qwazix_ | kerio, advanced battery status plugin | 17:03 |
| qwazix_ | or something | 17:03 |
| jonwil | hi | 17:04 |
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| qwazix_ | jonwil, hi | 17:04 |
| kerio | qwazix_: nope | 17:05 |
| kerio | Advanced power | 17:05 |
| Lava_Croft | freemangordon: i can once again confirm that kernel-power equals way less battery hours :< | 17:05 |
| Lava_Croft | i tried thumb-cssu | 17:05 |
| qwazix_ | Lava_Croft, disagree | 17:06 |
| Lava_Croft | qwazix_: i never knew you were watching my n900 | 17:06 |
| Lava_Croft | and therefore can disagree with my observations | 17:06 |
| Lava_Croft | but go ahead! :) | 17:06 |
| qwazix_ | no, I meant that I disagree that kernel-power equals less battery hours | 17:07 |
| qwazix_ | not "kernel-power equals less battery hours on Lava_Croft's N900" | 17:07 |
| Lava_Croft | its a different reality over here, sadly | 17:07 |
| qwazix_ | :) | 17:07 |
| Lava_Croft | i get around 20% to 30% less battery time, for some strange reason | 17:08 |
| qwazix_ | so it's probably something with your configuration | 17:08 |
| Lava_Croft | i had it before with kernel-power | 17:08 |
| Lava_Croft | my config is near default:) | 17:08 |
| Lava_Croft | actually, it was default on the thumb device | 17:08 |
| qwazix_ | (or your hw revision?) | 17:08 |
| Lava_Croft | and i already ran through quite some stuff with freemangordon before | 17:08 |
| Lava_Croft | the hw revision could very well be the case, yes | 17:08 |
| Lava_Croft | i have two n900s, from different factories | 17:09 |
| qwazix_ | I just rushed to disagree as I have a reflashed N900 with almost no apps (X-chat and cradio) | 17:09 |
| Lava_Croft | its not in any way the usual "KP SUX OMG" rant | 17:09 |
| qwazix_ | and installed thumb, and I didn't notice any significant battery drain | 17:09 |
| qwazix_ | the opposite really I feel that it lasts a bit longer | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | i did, as i did before :< | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | its not that i really mind it myself, but its always worth noting | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | i can live with KP just fine | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | er without* | 17:10 |
| qwazix_ | Lava_Croft, ofc | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | its just annoying as hell | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | i know damn well that it should actually not hurt battery life, or actually have a positive effect on it :< | 17:11 |
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| kerio | qwazix_: hmm, Advanced Power has a setting regarding which battery to show | 17:16 |
| kerio | nokia bme, nokia bme alternative, dummy | 17:16 |
| kerio | what's nokia bme alternative? | 17:16 |
| qwazix_ | kerio, Don't know, do you have kernel-power? | 17:16 |
| kerio | i have | 17:16 |
| qwazix_ | I remember there was a setting to use bq_27x00 | 17:17 |
| qwazix_ | which was a bit more accurate | 17:17 |
| kerio | sweet | 17:17 |
| qwazix_ | but I don't remember bme alternative altogether, maybe something recent | 17:17 |
| Lava_Croft | its been in there for a while, dont know what it is either | 17:17 |
| Lava_Croft | i think the BME alternative is actually bq_27x00 | 17:18 |
| kerio | and wtf is dummy? | 17:21 |
| kerio | bme alternative reports a slightly lower battery charge | 17:21 |
| Lava_Croft | all i recall about bme alternative is that it was broken | 17:21 |
| Lava_Croft | but thats from quite a while ago | 17:21 |
| Lava_Croft | it probably has changed by now | 17:21 |
| kerio | vaguely unrelated: still no opensource BME replacement? | 17:23 |
| freemangordon | kerio: FOSS replacement not ready | 17:24 |
| kerio | :( | 17:24 |
| freemangordon | kerio: why sad? get the source and complete it :P | 17:25 |
| kerio | sure, i'll get my ninja suit | 17:25 |
| kerio | is the source code stored in finland? it's cold there | 17:25 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: in gitorious | 17:25 |
| Gh0sty | probably on ice! :p | 17:25 |
| kerio | freemangordon: i meant the official BME | 17:25 |
| freemangordon | kerio: but you don't need it. And I was serious, just grab the source from https://gitorious.org/libbmeipc and https://gitorious.org/hald-addon-bme and add what is missing | 17:28 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: the only way to have less battery life with KP or KCSSU is to have something broken on your side. And it is SW not HW that is broken | 17:29 |
| Lava_Croft | fresh device | 17:30 |
| Lava_Croft | using a lot of streaming audio over 2g all day long | 17:30 |
| Lava_Croft | we talked about this before, no idea where it comes from :| | 17:31 |
| freemangordon | stock frequencies? | 17:31 |
| Lava_Croft | yes, everything untouched | 17:31 |
| freemangordon | SR? | 17:31 |
| Lava_Croft | you got me to toy with SR before, i didnt toy with it this time around | 17:31 |
| kerio | kcssu? :o | 17:31 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: don't get that, but anyway, the way battery life is prolonged in KP is SR | 17:32 |
| Lava_Croft | i know, :) | 17:32 |
| Lava_Croft | i just wanted to report it again, since this is a 'new' way i tried KP | 17:33 |
| Lava_Croft | with cssu-thumb | 17:33 |
| freemangordon | kerio: kernel-cssu, the one that is used with thumb binaries | 17:33 |
| Lava_Croft | you dont enable SR by default on cssu-thumb yet? | 17:33 |
| Lava_Croft | or ever will? | 17:33 |
| kerio | used with what? :o | 17:33 |
| Lava_Croft | kerio: look on TMO for 'announce cssu-thumb' orso | 17:34 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 17:34 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: no, I didn't want reports of thumb being broken ;) | 17:34 |
| Lava_Croft | freemangordon: i figured | 17:34 |
| Lava_Croft | but i would have reported it if it changed too, so meh | 17:35 |
| freemangordon | but enabling SR will come in near future | 17:35 |
| Lava_Croft | its not something im really angered about orso, but it still remains strange | 17:35 |
| kerio | what's SR? | 17:35 |
| freemangordon | SmartReflex | 17:35 |
| kerio | and do i have to do anything, if i installed CSSU and kernel-power? | 17:35 |
| Lava_Croft | freemangordon: ill just keep looking at it with every new release:) | 17:35 |
| Lava_Croft | one day it might work! | 17:35 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: which one? | 17:35 |
| freemangordon | SmartReflex? | 17:35 |
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| kerio | oh no, it's a different cssu | 17:36 |
| Lava_Croft | the overall battery thing in relation to KP | 17:36 |
| kerio | ouch | 17:36 |
| Lava_Croft | wether its with cssu-thumb or just KP | 17:36 |
| Lava_Croft | i can do fine with KP and cssu-thumb is on my second n900 | 17:36 |
| Lava_Croft | so its not an actual problem for me | 17:36 |
| Lava_Croft | goddamnit | 17:36 |
| Lava_Croft | without kp* | 17:36 |
| kerio | freemangordon: how does your -thumb repo work? | 17:37 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: so, lemme check if I got that correct. your second device has worse battery life that your primary? primary is with stock kernel, while second is with KP. Correct? | 17:37 |
| kerio | and do those programs work with the standard KP? | 17:37 |
| Lava_Croft | freemangordon: no | 17:37 |
| Lava_Croft | every device i tried KP on had worse battery life | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | with or without SR, fresh or tailored to my tastes | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | thats why we talked about it before:) | 17:38 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: lets then find the common denominator (besides KP) | 17:38 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: I man to that young I used to be :( | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | what? | 17:38 |
| freemangordon | *I am not that | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | nor am i | 17:39 |
| freemangordon | So I can't recall what we were talking | 17:39 |
| Lava_Croft | but you get much more people whining about cssu than i do | 17:39 |
| Lava_Croft | so its easy to remember for me | 17:39 |
| Lava_Croft | or KP, or SR :) | 17:39 |
| freemangordon | :) | 17:39 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 17:39 |
| Lava_Croft | you actually helped me locate a bunch of apps that used a lot of python etc | 17:39 |
| Lava_Croft | so you did help me get some more usage out of my battery:) | 17:40 |
| freemangordon | kerio: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84829 | 17:40 |
| kerio | freemangordon: yeah, i figured | 17:40 |
| Lava_Croft | also the second device is currently running meego | 17:40 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: hmm, but I was thinking we solved your issue. | 17:40 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: how long your battery lasts? | 17:41 |
| Lava_Croft | i havent done a 'scientific' test on it | 17:41 |
| Lava_Croft | but generally i dont have to recharge before i go to bed | 17:41 |
| Lava_Croft | and i get up at 4am and go to bed around 9pm | 17:42 |
| kerio | freemangordon: will it overwrite my beautiful kernel-power? :c | 17:42 |
| Lava_Croft | and stream audio over 2g several hours a day, besides browsing quite a bit with opera | 17:42 |
| freemangordon | kerio: yes | 17:42 |
| Lava_Croft | so it actually does quite nice already | 17:42 |
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| Lava_Croft | i can flash the second device with stock pr1.3.1 first, and have it play some music until the battery dies | 17:43 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: I will appreciate that | 17:43 |
| Lava_Croft | and then repeat the same test with cssu-thumb (with and without 'tweaks') | 17:43 |
| freemangordon | ok | 17:43 |
| Lava_Croft | i will not do it this weekend tho, since this is my vacation | 17:43 |
| Lava_Croft | so it will be next weekend:) | 17:44 |
| Lava_Croft | work starts again on monday:< | 17:44 |
| Lava_Croft | and i have to mentally prepare for going to nokia care with my n9 | 17:44 |
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| freemangordon | You have plenty of time, as I won;t have time to do anything for the next 10 days or so, I am going on a vacaion | 17:44 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 17:44 |
| Lava_Croft | make sure you dont do any maemo related shit during your vacation | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | at all | 17:45 |
| freemangordon | but I will appreciate that test, so we can be sure there is something. Or not ;) | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | yes | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | i want it for myself too, i guess | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 17:45 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: be sure I won't :) | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | good, that means you will be invigorated once you return | 17:46 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: I will remember to pester you once I am back :P | 17:46 |
| Lava_Croft | good, since i am good at forgetting stuff that i have to do myself | 17:46 |
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| freemangordon | as if there is something broken in KP I wan't to know it | 17:46 |
| Lava_Croft | yes, naturally | 17:47 |
| Lava_Croft | i want to know if im being silly too | 17:47 |
| freemangordon | yeah. BTW we found one bug in KP that could be sucking battery, it is related to script trying to echo 1 to fmtx lock. will be fixed in next KP/KCSSU | 17:48 |
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| kerio | freemangordon: how does the -thumb repo work? the packages have a higher version than the packages in community-testing? | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | something lik ethat | 17:59 |
| kerio | so what is it? | 18:01 |
| kerio | higher priority? | 18:01 |
| freemangordon | it appends -thumbN to package version, making it higher than tccu-test | 18:02 |
| freemangordon | *cssu-test | 18:02 |
| freemangordon | kerio: ^^^ | 18:04 |
| kerio | freemangordon: neat | 18:05 |
| freemangordon | kerio: BTW kernel-cssu IS kernel-power with some additional stuff that workarounds silicon bugs | 18:05 |
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| freemangordon | but you may want to wait Pali to push new kernel-power-settings, which is compatible with both KP and KCSSU | 18:06 |
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| kerio | freemangordon: k | 18:07 |
| kerio | well, it's not like i use kernel-power-settings | 18:07 |
| kerio | isn't it only for overclocking? | 18:07 |
| kerio | freemangordon: if thumb binaries are so good, why aren't they in cssu-testing? | 18:12 |
| kerio | :C | 18:12 |
| BCMM | what's the best way of sending keyboard input from the n900 to another machine (linux/X11)? | 18:12 |
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| BCMM | i mean, using the n900 as a wireless keyboard. I usually end up using VNC but it's not exactly optimal for the situation | 18:12 |
| kerio | BCMM: well, why not? | 18:13 |
| kerio | VNC has (or should have) a way to only send input | 18:13 |
| BCMM | ah, i should look in to that | 18:13 |
| BCMM | i was also wondering if there is a decent way of sending mouse input touchpad style | 18:14 |
| BCMM | there are a few android/ios things that do something similar | 18:14 |
| zeq | bluemaemo? | 18:15 |
| Sicelo | symbian did that first :P | 18:15 |
| NIN101 | well, in theory it could be done sending some /dev/input/ business using netcat or something, if the ther machine is linux. | 18:15 |
| zeq | BlueMaemo does it over bluetooth | 18:15 |
| BCMM | zeq: damn, that looks brilliant except for the bluetooth | 18:15 |
| NIN101 | but thanks to keyboard mapping etc. it won't be fun. | 18:16 |
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| BCMM | NIN101: wouldn't work nicely for mouse | 18:17 |
| NIN101 | indeed | 18:17 |
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| BCMM | i'm looking at the bluemaemo video and it's pretty much exactly what i was thinking of except for running over bluetooth | 18:18 |
| kerio | hm, why is SR enabled by default? it used not to be the case | 18:18 |
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| BCMM | hmm, looks like there is discussion but no such thing | 18:19 |
| BCMM | somebody on the forums points out what i was thinking, which is that you could probably abuse the synergy client to avoid having to write clients for various platforms | 18:19 |
| kerio | freemangordon: will kernel-cssu eventually be merged in kernel-power? | 18:20 |
| kerio | and/or viceversa? | 18:20 |
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| kerio | freemangordon: i read a bit about the thumb binaries | 19:22 |
| kerio | if they're so good, why aren't they used already? | 19:23 |
| kerio | or, at least, why isn't CSSU going to use them officially? | 19:23 |
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| vi_ | any open media player experts here? | 19:31 |
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| kerio | vi_: i use it! | 19:38 |
| kerio | that makes me an expert, right? | 19:38 |
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| pronto | kerio: depends, did you stay at a holiday in express last night? | 19:46 |
| kerio | pronto: nope, just my bed :( | 19:47 |
| pronto | thenno expert | 19:47 |
| kerio | it's a comfy bed though | 19:47 |
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| kerio | and i live with my parents, so i have lunch *and* dinner covered | 19:47 |
| kerio | for free! | 19:47 |
| Sc0rpius | now that's nice. | 19:48 |
| udovdh | kerio, depending on your age this might be part of the new economic paradigm and not so good | 19:48 |
| pronto | lol | 19:48 |
| kerio | udovdh: i'm 20 | 19:48 |
| udovdh | that's on the edge ;-) | 19:48 |
| kerio | i'm still a student | 19:49 |
| kerio | it counts for something, right? | 19:49 |
| Sc0rpius | those paradigms suck, I should go back living with my mom :/ | 19:49 |
| Sc0rpius | and she'll be happy if I do that actually | 19:49 |
| udovdh | yup, but prepare for moving out... | 19:49 |
| Sicelo | and damn! does my network suck! | 19:49 |
| Sicelo | eew, wrong window | 19:50 |
| jabis | who has it in their right mind to move BACK to their parents x) | 19:50 |
| Sc0rpius | I would definitely | 19:50 |
| Sc0rpius | I guess depends on the parents too | 19:50 |
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| jabis | I mean - for what purpose? x) | 19:50 |
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| Sc0rpius | people in their late 20s or their 30s actually love to be away from the parents | 19:51 |
| Sc0rpius | in your 40s you actually start missing them a lot | 19:51 |
| Sc0rpius | and in your 50s when you don't have them anymore, it REALLY sucks. | 19:51 |
| Lava_Croft | its all depending on the situation:P | 19:51 |
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| jabis | I appreciate my parents - but you're here to live your own life | 19:52 |
| Sc0rpius | anyway I go to lunch with my parents every tuesday and thursday :) | 19:52 |
| Sc0rpius | at home | 19:52 |
| vi_ | Sc0rpius: you are a god guy. | 19:52 |
| Sc0rpius | :) | 19:52 |
| vi_ | ^goof | 19:52 |
| vi_ | ^good | 19:52 |
| Lava_Croft | my parents live about 300m away from me, i see them once a month orso | 19:52 |
| jabis | that's a nice tradition :) I tend to see my mom at least every week too | 19:52 |
| Sc0rpius | nice | 19:52 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: really? BUT THEY ONLY LIVE less than 1/3 of a KM from you!1 | 19:53 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah 300 meters is walking distance | 19:53 |
| Lava_Croft | yes, same village | 19:53 |
| jabis | range approx 50km | 19:53 |
| Lava_Croft | near peeing distance | 19:53 |
| vi_ | now somone tell me why OMP will not open AAC files? | 19:53 |
| Lava_Croft | theres no need for us to see each other that often :) | 19:53 |
| jabis | my younger siblings still live with my mom - so I don't need to worry x) | 19:53 |
| Lava_Croft | vi_: it opens aac streams | 19:54 |
| Sc0rpius | that Jolla startup sounds nice | 19:55 |
| kerio | vi_: i find that kinda hard to believe, most of my music is AAC | 19:55 |
| Sc0rpius | but I wonder who will make the hardware | 19:55 |
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| kerio | vi_: yep, false | 19:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Scorcerer: it seems jolla will do | 20:16 |
| qwazix_ | vi_: does regular media player play those files? | 20:18 |
| NIN101 | is OMP using tracker? | 20:20 |
| Lava_Croft | yes | 20:20 |
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| vi_ | kerio: yep, false? | 20:23 |
| vi_ | ? | 20:24 |
| vi_ | kerio: You have no idea what tF you are talking about. | 20:24 |
| vi_ | qwazix_: Yes, regular MP does play files. | 20:25 |
| vi_ | Allow me to explain. | 20:25 |
| vi_ | You click on an mp3 through file manager, it opens said mp3 file with OMP. | 20:25 |
| vi_ | You click on an AAC file (as recorded with recaller) and it will open OMP but the file will not play. | 20:26 |
| vi_ | it will show 0/0 files available. | 20:26 |
| vi_ | As if the playlist is not populated. | 20:26 |
| vi_ | If you rename the AAC file to an MP3 file, it will play just fine. | 20:26 |
| vi_ | So, how tf do you open AAC files with OMP? | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: ^^^ | 20:28 |
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| kerio | vi__: ooh, how do you select OMP as the default program to launch when you open a multimedia file? | 20:43 |
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| jean_brat | Hi DocScrutinizer | 20:46 |
| jean_brat | i posted this question 6 hours ago.. but you were not around.. and some one said you might be an expert to know this one | 20:47 |
| jean_brat | Hi these keys [Shft Fn CTRL Rght Down T] in my n900 keyboard is not workin.. i cleaned my domesheet with petrol and tryied to put it back in.. and cleaned the contacts as well..but still cant figureout the issue.. ironicaly i cant find a new domesheet on ebay or anyother website. i have to fix the existing one. | 20:47 |
| jean_brat | is there any Detailed key matrix picture with respect to Domesheet so that i can figureout which part of my domesheet is broken and manage to fix it? | 20:47 |
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| kerio | in general, how do i choose what's the "default application" for a certain file type? | 20:51 |
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| StyXman | can someone tell me where can I get marble's source package? I want to try a patch for it... I have my scratchbox setup and ready | 20:54 |
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| kerio | no, seriously, is there a way to change the file associations? | 20:58 |
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| StyXman | I got to http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/m/marble/, but no sources :( | 21:02 |
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| StyXman | also: should I update my SB setup to SSU? | 21:03 |
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| StyXman | aha: http://repository.maemo.org/ | 21:06 |
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| Sicelo | hmm, so i'm late to the Jolla news. I wish them well. just a question.. i assume use of code they had worked on while they were Nokia employees will not necessarily be permitted, right? | 21:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Generally not, unless it's GPL | 21:10 |
| Sicelo | suggesting that they'll be sort of forced to start on a fresh slate, unless they ask for, and get, permission for reuse of code from Nokia | 21:10 |
| Sicelo | :\ | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | yep | 21:11 |
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| Sicelo | eew | 21:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Chances of - for example - maemo 5.1 are zero. | 21:11 |
| Sicelo | jean_brat: you have the service manual? | 21:11 |
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| StyXman | SpeedEvil: not necesaarily, if the resulting binaries were not distibuted, the GPL doesn't give you permission to just take the sources | 21:11 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: how do i change the file associations? | 21:12 |
| jean_brat | yes i have the PDF | 21:12 |
| jean_brat | Sicelo, | 21:12 |
| SpeedEvil | StyXman: yes, but if you have the sources, you can fork the sources. | 21:12 |
| SpeedEvil | (assuming there were no other constraints on you ) | 21:12 |
| Sicelo | i was just asking jean_brat. i guess you need someone to scrutinize the document then :P | 21:13 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: No clue | 21:13 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume not /etc/mimetypes :) | 21:13 |
| Sicelo | so Jolla aims to build hardware, or use existing Harmattan hardware? | 21:14 |
| SpeedEvil | build | 21:15 |
| kerio | should i just remove mediaplayer then? | 21:15 |
| jean_brat | Sicelo, its not much of a help. i wanted to know is.. inside the domesheet how the connections are? | 21:15 |
| jean_brat | where the domesheet gets the supply from the main supply line to pull up these pads | 21:15 |
| kerio | and hope that OMP will pick up its role? | 21:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Search for keyboard matrix on the wiki | 21:16 |
| Sicelo | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard | 21:17 |
| jean_brat | ya i have seen that Sicelo . my question is .. how it is inside the domesheet? where does the domesheet gets the supply for a particular key | 21:19 |
| jean_brat | routing inside the domesheet.. any diagram for that? | 21:19 |
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| Sicelo | i don't know much hardware-wise jean_brat. sorry. i've never even taken a screw out of my N900 | 21:20 |
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| jean_brat | its ok fella.. thanks for your help.. | 21:21 |
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| jean_brat | is there a place i can place my querry..? about n900? in meego site? | 21:24 |
| StyXman | jean_brat: talk.maemo.org | 21:31 |
| StyXman | and it's maemo, not meego | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jean_brat: there's that little info bit I posted to wiki: | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jean_brat: your QROW4 is defect. Quite probably not a problem of domesheet | 21:35 |
| jean_brat | i figured that. and thought its not getting the supply from the board to pull up.. but don know whcih part of the board | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jean_brat: eiter your QROW4 trace has a short to GND (or other signal), or a break, or the GAIA chip pin/GPIO is defect | 21:39 |
| jean_brat | Hi DocScrutinizer could you please explain me from the diagram shown in pagenumber 20 of service manual? | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, no service maual at hand atm | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jean_brat: please test if "u" key still works when you hold "t" key pressed | 21:43 |
| jean_brat | i can send if you want? PDF.. just take a screen shot | 21:44 |
| jean_brat | DocScrutinizer, what does that prove? | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it proves QROW4 not pulled to GND hard | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so it must be a break then | 21:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | if QROW4 was short to GND (or other alien signal), pressing "t" connects QCOL0 to same level. This should stop iuyrewq keys to work as long as t keys pulls QCOL0 to GND via QROW4 | 21:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | for all I know the domesheet has no traces whatsoever, just contact pads to short 2 contact rings on each key position | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so nothing you could fix on domesheet to make QROW4 work again | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm rather afraid you got a fatal defect | 21:49 |
| jean_brat | U works even if i kept pressing the T button | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can't tell for sure without inspecting the device myself, but probably your GAIA chip is broken | 21:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that confirms it's not an accidental short of QROW4 to any other signal | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so it has to be a break in QROW4 trace | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably inside chip | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or on chip solder point | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry! | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :.( | 21:53 |
| jean_brat | i already lost faith on this.. so be it.. lets screw this thing | 21:53 |
| jean_brat | can you point me to the main keyboard control chip?: | 21:54 |
| jean_brat | from the diagram? | 21:54 |
| peterbjornx_n900 | twl4030 i think | 21:58 |
| jean_brat | GAIA chip that you have mentioned DocScrutinizer | 21:58 |
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| peterbjornx_n900 | thats gaia iirc | 21:59 |
| jean_brat | thanks peterbjornx_n900 | 22:01 |
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| jean_brat | are you sure abut this peterbjornx_n900 ? | 22:02 |
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| peterbjornx_n900 | not completely | 22:06 |
| peterbjornx_n900 | but as far as i can remember the twl4030 handles kb | 22:06 |
| peterbjornx_n900 | and tons of other tasks | 22:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GAIA == twl4030 == tps65950 == the companion chip handling kbd among others | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | page 4 of Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf | 22:17 |
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| Sicelo | our jean_brat evidently didn't have that doc | 22:28 |
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| kerio | did someone uninstall mediaplayer successfully? | 22:48 |
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| Sc0rpius | I think Jolla + Meego + good hardware manufacturer is better than Tizen + Samsung | 22:50 |
| Sc0rpius | and better than Mer? | 22:50 |
| Sc0rpius | I'm really looking forward to that | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | well, it's Jolla + Mer, but sure | 22:51 |
| Sc0rpius | JOLLA + MER?????????? | 22:51 |
| Sc0rpius | please don't | 22:51 |
| Sc0rpius | I thought it was Jolla + Meego :( | 22:51 |
| Sc0rpius | I mean I tried Nemo and I didn't like it. | 22:52 |
| Sicelo | Lol. evidently you don't know who Stskeeps is | 22:52 |
| Sicelo | :P | 22:52 |
| Sc0rpius | I don't know who anybody is around here :P | 22:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: then he maybe should have downloaded it from the intarnetz | 22:53 |
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| kerio | wtf is mediaplayer-restore | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf mediaplayer-restore | 22:54 |
| infobot | usage: wtf <foo>. | 22:54 |
| kerio | you always say that! :C | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~useless | 22:55 |
| * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer05 in the darkest corner of the room. :( | 22:55 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf wtf | 22:55 |
| infobot | WTF: {what,where,who,why} the fuck | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf mediaplayer-restore | 22:55 |
| infobot | usage: wtf <foo>. | 22:55 |
| kerio | why the hell does imageviewer depend on mediaplayer-l10n-mr0? | 22:55 |
| kerio | hahaha wow | 22:55 |
| kerio | it depends on mediaplayer-l10n-mr0 OR mediaplayer-l10n-mr0 | 22:55 |
| kerio | why does nokia suck so many balls | 22:56 |
| kerio | ~8ball | 22:56 |
| * infobot rolls the eight ball and gets: Outlook good | 22:56 | |
| kerio | that's not a good answer :( | 22:56 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: do you have any clue of how mime types are resolved, when opening files in maemo? | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | Sc0rpius: nemo has nothing to deal with how good a product people can make.. | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: a faint clue, yes. there's sth around .desktop files | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | each app has some "serviced filetypes" def in .desktop | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | mime types are in .desktop files | 22:58 |
| Sc0rpius | well, we'll see I guess | 22:58 |
| kerio | if i remove mediaplayer, will media files be opened by omp? | 22:58 |
| Sc0rpius | if it's a product as good as the N900, I'm in. | 22:58 |
| Sc0rpius | and I said N900 not N9. | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: it seems this new spinoff might be not completely averse to hiring me. so odds are I might throw in some helping rant about properties of product, which - I promise - would help to make the final product meet your requirements regarding that | 23:00 |
| Sc0rpius | nice | 23:00 |
| Sc0rpius | that's good news | 23:00 |
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| Stskeeps | Sc0rpius: nemo has nothing to deal with how good a product people can make using Mer, for good measure :) | 23:01 |
| japh | kerio, what is omp, is that the thing that we got ootb? | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | (if i already said that, sorry) | 23:01 |
| kerio | japh: no, omp is openmediaplayer | 23:01 |
| kerio | it's a replacement UI for mafw | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: of course you know it's always the product managers that define the product, never the engineers | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err Sc0rpius^^^ | 23:01 |
| japh | hms, and here I thought I had every possible repo there is | 23:01 |
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| freemangordon | japh: it is in in extras-devel | 23:02 |
| japh | but I have that enabled :( | 23:02 |
| japh | what's the package name? | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: and tbh I'm fine with that. I wouldn't want me and my colleagues define fianl shape and appearance of any product | 23:03 |
| kerio | japh: openmediaplayer, i think | 23:03 |
| kerio | it's a really good UI | 23:03 |
| kerio | freemangordon: should i install cssu-thumb? | 23:03 |
| freemangordon | kerio: it is up to you | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: but I goddamn want product managers to *ask* us about our opinion | 23:03 |
| kerio | will it screw with the rest of cssu? | 23:03 |
| freemangordon | you'll have some more free RAM | 23:04 |
| kerio | that's good | 23:04 |
| freemangordon | kerio: no, installing CSSU-thumb automagically installs CSSU-testing | 23:04 |
| Sc0rpius | hehehe | 23:04 |
| kerio | freemangordon: i'm already on cssu-testing | 23:04 |
| kerio | i mean, duh | 23:04 |
| freemangordon | NP | 23:04 |
| kerio | who the hell is *not* on cssu-testing? | 23:04 |
| freemangordon | kerio: most of the n900 owners | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | proct manager: "it needs OLEDS!" Me: "where? for what purpose? how many?" PM: "no idea. but make it happen. it needs OLEDS!" <-- I *HATE* that | 23:05 |
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| kerio | hm, what's the package that installs the "Single sign on for Ovi by Nokia" extension in microb? | 23:06 |
| kerio | can i uninstall that in microb? | 23:06 |
| japh | ☃_ apt-cache search o'mp|open.*med'|grep play | 23:08 |
| japh | libcanberra-gtk0 - Gtk+ helper for playing widget event sounds with libcanberra | 23:08 |
| japh | :( | 23:08 |
| japh | there's a billion mediaplayer-foobar packages though | 23:08 |
| kerio | japh: "openmediaplayer" | 23:09 |
| kerio | i mean, seriously now | 23:09 |
| japh | why doesn't it show up here? I do have testing enabled | 23:09 |
| kerio | maybe it's only in -devel? | 23:09 |
| japh | ☃_ grep devel /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list | 23:10 |
| japh | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free non-free | 23:10 |
| japh | deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free | 23:10 |
| japh | this, no? | 23:10 |
| kerio | yeah | 23:10 |
| kerio | \_o_/ | 23:10 |
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| japh | grr | 23:10 |
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| japh | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/install/openmediaplayer.install | 23:11 |
| japh | <_< | 23:11 |
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| japh | ok, guess what | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: btw N9 is all but a sub-par piece of hardware craftmanship. Just I guess the product requirement specs don't exactly meet your taste | 23:13 |
| japh | openmediaplayer unvanished now | 23:14 |
| japh | though it feels like I've been doing nothing but apt-get updates all day | 23:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: in fact I think it's one of the cutest *phones* I ever owned | 23:15 |
| Sc0rpius | I didn't know you had one | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | $Nokia thought I need one for hw reference purposes | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and my attestation is: it's quite nicely built | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just absolutely not what I want to use | 23:16 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: would you use it if it had a physical keyboard and maemo? | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably yes | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd still _miss_ the uSD slot though | 23:17 |
| kerio | freemangordon: how much do i have to download to install cssu-thumb? i'm kinda short on traffic for the summer, sadly | 23:21 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: NFC, about 40-50 MB. HAM will tell you the value | 23:21 |
| kerio | hm | 23:21 |
| kerio | i suppose i can deal with that | 23:22 |
| kerio | not sure, i have to think about it | 23:22 |
| kerio | freemangordon: will it remove kernel-power-installer? | 23:22 |
| kerio | i mean, by itself? | 23:22 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: and what is kernel-power-installer? | 23:24 |
| kerio | freemangordon: the thingy that installs KP | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | aah, you mean kernel-power-flasher? no, it will stayu there, along with kernel-power-modules | 23:25 |
| freemangordon | and all other kernel-power-* packages | 23:25 |
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| kerio | but why? kernel-cssu clearly conflicts with it | 23:26 |
| kerio | because, you know, it's another kernel | 23:27 |
| freemangordon | conflicts? in what exactly way? what if you want both kernels u-bootable? | 23:28 |
| kerio | then you'll quickly find that your old kernel can't boot | 23:28 |
| kerio | because a good third of your installed system requires the new kernel | 23:29 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 hmmm's loudly | 23:30 | |
| freemangordon | kerio: I heard from the maintaner, that next KP will have thumb errata fixes included :P | 23:30 |
| kerio | yay ^_^ | 23:31 |
| japh | kerio, woah!! | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the kernel itself has just an added feature to support thumb | 23:31 |
| kerio | japh: what? | 23:31 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 23:31 |
| freemangordon | which will be included in next KP | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nothing that could potentially conflict too much with anything PK or stock kernel | 23:32 |
| japh | kerio, there was this strange looking icon in that openmediaplayer thing that I mashed, and what happens? it's using this DLNA or whatever it's called to access all of my shit on the n950 | 23:32 |
| japh | very cool, but very dangerous | 23:32 |
| kerio | if cssu decides to move to thumb binaries, they'll have to actually make people install PK, right? | 23:32 |
| freemangordon | no | 23:32 |
| kerio | japh: neat | 23:32 |
| freemangordon | kernel-cssu will be a part of that binaries | 23:33 |
| kerio | but kernel-cssu is kernel-power | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | besides cssu never will "move" to thumb, it will just need a kernel that has thumb-errata workaround feature | 23:33 |
| freemangordon | if there is no KP already unstalled | 23:33 |
| freemangordon | kerio: so what? | 23:33 |
| kerio | so... something something overclock something something slippery slope | 23:34 |
| kerio | something something DocScrutinizer | 23:34 |
| freemangordon | who told you KP is OC only? | 23:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | this thread lost me | 23:34 |
| kerio | freemangordon: idk, i only install it for wifi injection | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: example wifi-hotspot | 23:35 |
| kerio | ooh right | 23:35 |
| kerio | that too | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: it needs netfilters in kernel | 23:35 |
| freemangordon | kerio: ever heard of SR, 720p, etc.. | 23:35 |
| kerio | i don't have a data plan as of now though, so i still haven't installed it | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ...so it will depend on any kernel providing that feature | 23:35 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 23:35 |
| kerio | freemangordon: i didn't know SR required KP :o | 23:35 |
| kerio | and what's that 720p thing? | 23:36 |
| kerio | you need a special *kernel* for hd playback? | 23:36 |
| freemangordon | kerio: google is your friend, ask gogle for "n900 720p" | 23:36 |
| freemangordon | yeap, that special kernel is KP | 23:36 |
| freemangordon | kerio: not only playback ;) | 23:37 |
| kerio | wtf, 720p video capture? | 23:37 |
| kerio | that's neat | 23:37 |
| kerio | the fact that you have to overclock the dsp is kinda bad though | 23:37 |
| freemangordon | well, even if you don't want DSP OC, using that makes a huge difference for standart resolutions, by by stuttering videos | 23:38 |
| kerio | and i suppose that having a good kernel is required, if you want to dick around with the chips | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: the whole point about cssu and new kernels is: no modules built for stock kernel will work with _any_ new kernel. So we'd lose all the apps (and users of those apps) that come with kernel modules for whatever weird stuff. If those apps are closed source (think e.g. blessN900, or a USB webcam driver) we're screwed with a cssu that would ship new kernel | 23:39 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer: blessn900 works with KP, fcam drivers too and I can't think of any other app | 23:40 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: on the other hand, backwards compatibility with closed-source stuff is something that cssu shouldn't *aim* for, at least | 23:40 |
| freemangordon | not that I want to start that discussion now :) | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: doesn't change the basic rationale | 23:40 |
| kerio | freemangordon: joikuspot? | 23:40 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ | 23:40 |
| freemangordon | kerio: NP with joikuspot AFAIK | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: since you by definition can't know about all the possibly existing packages out there that would conflict | 23:41 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: that is what CSSU-testing is for | 23:41 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: do we really want to keep that kind of backwards compat? | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yes | 23:41 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ok, so how would you integrate something like cssu-thumb in cssu proper? | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since cssu-testing is exactly _not_ about shipping a new not backward compatible OS version | 23:42 |
| freemangordon | you can take the last fiasco with cbs-widget as an example | 23:42 |
| kerio | freemangordon: which fiasco? | 23:42 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05 knows | 23:42 |
| kerio | yeah but i don't | 23:42 |
| kerio | that's why i asked | 23:42 |
| freemangordon | see cssu-testing thread on TMO | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the mega fiasco of operator name applet got fecked by this pckg | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's nothing wrong with optional packages, even optional kernels. But no way we'll sacrifice cssu backward compatibility at large for any leete new feature | 23:44 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: moar ram! :c | 23:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | cssu original idea been that user is allowed to cherrypick any subset she likes | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not to replace original maemo by a complete new rewrite | 23:45 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: we included a package with no real benefit which breaks another package, agree? But you refuse to include a package with clear benefit, that MIGHT break some yet unknown application. I fail to see the rationale. | 23:45 |
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| freemangordon | re-compile is not re-write | 23:46 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: do we have some stats wrt the kernel that cssu users use? | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: that's a really nasty way to argue. We did this fault by accident, and ypou suggest we now do it on purpose as we don't yet find the forseeable conflicts and breakages it will give us? | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: irrelevant | 23:47 |
| kerio | it doesn't seem too irrelevant to me | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anything that's now is vastly irrelevant for what's where we wanna go to | 23:47 |
| kerio | the kind of person who would buy a n900, the kind of person who would install cssu and the kind of person who would install KP are very similar though | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "we got 23 users now. So why don't we distribute new OS by sending out DVDs?" | 23:48 |
| kerio | i mean, the last two are obviously subsets of the first, but... | 23:48 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: Being an accident or on purpose is irrelevant, now cbs-widget is a part of CSSU-T and AIUI we will have to find a way to make it compatible with the package it conflicts with. Don;t see a reason why the same would not work for thumb. | 23:50 |
| kerio | what does it conflict with? | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU is meant to allow painless migration to every N900 user, no matter if she's a kernel hacker, power user, or my granny with no clue abiut KP and thumb | 23:50 |
| kerio | "It just works" | 23:51 |
| kerio | i've heard that somewhere | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually it's not even any migration | 23:51 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: agree, but it is not by chance that we have 2 flavors | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's merely continuation of what Nokia did, but better | 23:51 |
| freemangordon | and thumb fits perfectly in that | 23:52 |
| freemangordon | they fail to do it, we make it | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: right, we got Stable only because I pushed it like mad | 23:52 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no matter why, we have it | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, and it has a clearly defined purpose, that doesn't change the definition of cssu-t at all | 23:53 |
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| * freemangordon is afk for a couple of minutes | 23:54 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cssu-t and cssu-s both are meant to be continuations on stock maemo - just we're not Nokia so we can't switch basic properties of whole system just because some devels think it's leete | 23:54 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: but it's really, really, really leete! | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | irrelevant | 23:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we got cssu-thumb for that | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the cssu optional packages | 23:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | thumb for a basic change in system properties that'll break continuity, optional packages for all other crap | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if that's still not sufficient for you, suggest augmenting | 23:56 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: in what way thumb is not a continuation of stock maemo? | 23:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I already elaborated on it | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it breaks stuff for old packages | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we got cssu-thumb for a reason | 23:57 |
| freemangordon | no, what you said is that it MIGHT break some unknown package | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the reason not being it was originally meant to be named cssu-t | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, it WILL break any arbitrary number of yet unknown packages, definitely | 23:58 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: and the reason to have cssu-thumb was that noone (including me) was 100% sure thumb thingie will actually work without crashes | 23:59 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i can make a package that works with pr1.3.1 and stops working with cssu | 23:59 |
| kerio | i can make an arbitrary amount of those | 23:59 |
| kerio | why should cssu care? | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | look budy, if you're the leete kernel hacker you say you are, you can build a new kernel that still keeps module compatibilty to old stock kernel modules. I'm mor ethan willing to support a migration to such a kernel | 23:59 |
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