| freemangordon | NFC how it updates is blacklist | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| freemangordon | going to reinstall ABD | 00:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | abd? | 00:01 |
| freemangordon | ABP | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | adb? | 00:01 |
| freemangordon | :D:D:D | 00:01 |
| freemangordon | naah | 00:01 |
| freemangordon | no android crap here :P | 00:01 |
| Sc0rpius | hahaha | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so we're still talking about AddBlock+? | 00:02 |
| Sc0rpius | we.ñ | 00:02 |
| Sc0rpius | we.. | 00:02 |
| Sc0rpius | :S | 00:02 |
| Sc0rpius | I can't even type | 00:02 |
| freemangordon | apt-get install --reinstall adblock-plus-1.0 does the job | 00:02 |
| freemangordon | Sc0rpius: could you rty it? | 00:03 |
| freemangordon | *try | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I assume ADP and ADB and ABD are all synonyms for AddBlock+? | 00:03 |
| freemangordon | twas a typo | 00:03 |
| freemangordon | ADB i mean | 00:03 |
| freemangordon | and yes, we're talking about AddBlock+ | 00:03 |
| Sc0rpius | I could try, but it'll update patterns.ini anyway | 00:04 |
| Sc0rpius | eventually | 00:04 |
| freemangordon | Sc0rpius: how? | 00:04 |
| freemangordon | where you will get them from? | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd like to believe it's been Java/JRE here, in konqueror | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or this friggin flash11-plugin? | 00:05 |
| Sc0rpius | it automatically does it, if you see where your patterns.ini is, you'll see different backups from different versions every time it updated itself | 00:05 |
| Sc0rpius | and it seems to be once a day | 00:05 |
| freemangordon | Sc0rpius: but it won't help then, tomorrow my microb will be screwed up again | 00:06 |
| Sc0rpius | yes. | 00:06 |
| Sc0rpius | unless we figure out how to disable that | 00:06 |
| freemangordon | sigh | 00:06 |
| Sc0rpius | which I believe you can | 00:06 |
| freemangordon | lets again ask google :) | 00:07 |
| Sc0rpius | there's a Preferences button for Adblock | 00:07 |
| freemangordon | yeah, opens another not very useful window | 00:08 |
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| freemangordon | Sc0rpius: that option is added in last ADP version (2.03) which is not available for microb | 00:12 |
| freemangordon | (disable automatic updates) | 00:12 |
| Sc0rpius | :S | 00:13 |
| Sc0rpius | then I'm not using Adblock Plus. Anyway I don't visit websites with too much ads using the N900 | 00:13 |
| Sc0rpius | I need it to be fast more than to be clean | 00:13 |
| vi_ | FWIW noscript works on microb. | 00:13 |
| freemangordon | yeah :S | 00:13 |
| Sc0rpius | since I can't have both :( | 00:13 |
| freemangordon | vi_: what is that? | 00:14 |
| robbiethe1st | I use the flash "clickToRun" thing | 00:14 |
| vi_ | You could also use a small hosts adblock without ABP overheads. | 00:14 |
| robbiethe1st | works /excellently/ for keeping MicroB fast. | 00:14 |
| vi_ | robbiethe1st: I use that too. | 00:14 |
| Sc0rpius | you mean settings 127.0.0.1 to in /etc/hosts to ads sites? | 00:14 |
| Sc0rpius | setting | 00:14 |
| vi_ | freemangordon: noscript disables ALL scripting of all everykind except on pages you whhitelist. | 00:14 |
| vi_ | Helps keep things snappy. | 00:15 |
| freemangordon | it is in repos? | 00:15 |
| vi_ | No, you have to go 'find it' from the firefox plugins web page. | 00:15 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok | 00:15 |
| vi_ | And yes ABP is a massive hog. | 00:16 |
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| vi_ | http://tlvince.com/2010/08/02/hosts-adblock/ | 00:18 |
| freemangordon | vi_: 10x | 00:19 |
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| freemangordon | hmm, installed ABP 1.3.10 from mozzula website, so far everything is snappy | 00:26 |
| freemangordon | unfortunately does not seem to work | 00:28 |
| vi_ | lols | 00:28 |
| vi_ | did you killall browserd? | 00:28 |
| freemangordon | yep | 00:28 |
| vi_ | mmm | 00:28 |
| freemangordon | it is listed as plugin on addons page | 00:28 |
| freemangordon | let me restart the device | 00:28 |
| vi_ | noooooo | 00:29 |
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| vi_ | your uptime! | 00:29 |
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| freemangordon | don't care | 00:29 |
| freemangordon | :) | 00:29 |
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| freemangordon | hmm, seems to work after the restart | 00:31 |
| freemangordon | Sc0rpius: seems ABP updates every 5 days | 00:32 |
| Sc0rpius | it sucks. | 00:32 |
| freemangordon | don;t see any speed difference between 1.02 and 1.3.10 though | 00:33 |
| freemangordon | takes 10 seconds until TMO starts to download :( | 00:34 |
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| freemangordon | but that is only for the first site, after that everything is snappy | 00:34 |
| vi_ | and you were wondering who ate your ram? | 00:35 |
| freemangordon | yeah :D | 00:35 |
| freemangordon | but 1.3.10 seems much better than 1.02, lets see how it will be after blacklist update | 00:39 |
| vi_ | you could perhaps configure it to use the fanboy super light weight block list as oppose to easy ist? | 00:40 |
| vi_ | ^list | 00:40 |
| vi_ | That might yield a speed inprovment. | 00:40 |
| freemangordon | yeah, if the full list slows it again i will google for some light list | 00:41 |
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| vi_ | fanboy is your man | 00:41 |
| vi_ | Fucking Rockoil SVI. | 00:43 |
| vi_ | Their 5wt is as heavy as amsol 10wt. | 00:43 |
| vi_ | Their 2.5wt is piss. | 00:43 |
| ThreeM | Sc0rpius so big thx for yappari. now my friends cannot anoy me anymore why im not using whatsapp ;) | 00:43 |
| vi_ | Why are you using whatsapp? | 00:44 |
| vi_ | What about the 1 year cost? | 00:44 |
| Sc0rpius | ThreeM, thanks to you for testing it out :) | 00:45 |
| ThreeM | cause im forced by my friends :/ | 00:45 |
| ThreeM | dont answr to sms anymore and such | 00:45 |
| Sc0rpius | after a year we either pay or.... (I'll leave it as a surprise in a year) | 00:45 |
| Sc0rpius | bu there's a "way" | 00:45 |
| ThreeM | yappari works good so long, and dont drain battery. chat works. thats all i expected :) | 00:46 |
| ThreeM | after i edit the yappari.conf and add cc+phonenumer to the phonenumer field | 00:47 |
| wmarone | yappari? :> nice name | 00:48 |
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| Sc0rpius | that's a bug some people have. It's fixed in the current release | 00:49 |
| Sc0rpius | well if you speak japanese | 00:49 |
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| Sc0rpius | when you (used to ) ask a Japanese: "there's no Whatsapp for N900" (in japanese of course) | 00:49 |
| Sc0rpius | he would say "yappari..." as "I knew it" | 00:49 |
| wmarone | hehe | 00:50 |
| Sc0rpius | and since it has "app" in between | 00:50 |
| Sc0rpius | it makes a funny pun for the japanese | 00:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | whatsapp, the hugest scam of the last 5 years | 00:56 |
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| nox- | hm they charge for jabber? or whats the thing? | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a few years ago it's been the skype hype, not whatsapp | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nox-: that's what I understood it is | 00:59 |
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| nox- | oh well... | 00:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | another service offering for free what's been around for free since years but not been marketed that agressively, and skimming the user data and eventually throw in "added value" the user has to pay for | 01:00 |
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| Sc0rpius | Whatsapp actually already have all the contact information of the planet | 01:04 |
| Sc0rpius | including yours | 01:04 |
| Sc0rpius | you just need to be in the address book of somebody who uses Whatsapp, that's all. | 01:04 |
| Sc0rpius | and I'm way too sure that you are in several of those .P | 01:04 |
| Sc0rpius | :P | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | me? definitely not | 01:04 |
| Sc0rpius | you must have a friend who uses Whatsapp | 01:04 |
| Sc0rpius | you just don't know | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no such "friends" here | 01:05 |
| Sc0rpius | the whole address book of anybody who uses Whatsapp is uploaded | 01:05 |
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| robbiethe1st | Friend? what's that? | 01:05 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: could not prevent friends of using it | 01:07 |
| chem|st | from using it.. | 01:07 |
| chem|st | nox-: they even have a "second" app for doing calls | 01:08 |
| chem|st | nox-: sry, they SELL a 2nd app... for doing calls^^ | 01:09 |
| nox- | oh well... | 01:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 01:09 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, afaik adblock plus pattern list is optional | 01:10 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: nothing to laugh about! sad story bro' | 01:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not particularly new a story though | 01:10 |
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| Estel_ | i.e. it works by having patterns for most popular adds - for sake of installing and running out of the box | 01:10 |
| Estel_ | last time I've tried addblockplus it was possible to disable auto list... | 01:11 |
| Estel_ | and rely on Your own patterns | 01:11 |
| Estel_ | i.e. You see add -> You add it to list -> You don't see it again on that site | 01:12 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: we had ICQ skype msn aolm and tons of other shit ppl all over the world use for some reason... all do the same... eat your soul | 01:12 |
| Estel_ | patterns try to block adds for whole world, they have to be ram hogs :P | 01:12 |
| Estel_ | vi_, freemangordon, how are You installing mozilla addonds for microB from out of repos? | 01:13 |
| Estel_ | is it possible to install some old versions, or what? | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | army of losers, yeah, a particularly nice one | 01:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the average stupid is just too greedy to notice the ever same pattern, even after falling for it for the 10th or 20th time | 01:14 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: it is a shame... also blocking foreign servers is the new style... looking at all those jabber servers restricting to "the one and only service you may use" | 01:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: I just say SchuFa and Facebook - ROTFL | 01:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | every idiot and his dog are in FB, but when a credit profiling company announces they gonna read the FB data, it's national shock and awe | 01:17 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: adding the CIA terrorist words-list to it and you may get a pretty fsckd database of people worth credit for weapons... | 01:17 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: go to addons.mozilla.org and pick your one | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you really think they will stop doing that just because you whine "that's evil!" | 01:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | actually they already are harvesting your data off FB since very beginning | 01:18 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: sure that is why I get afghan commercial banners all over the place, working place "afghan logistics and tours kabul" ever since :) | 01:19 |
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| chem|st | even my mom asked me to change it as she feared her swiss fb-friends to ask stupid questions^^ | 01:21 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, and it's supposed to work?! | 01:29 |
| Estel_ | if yes, my yaw is going to drop and make big hole to the earth center | 01:30 |
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| Estel_ | I always though our UI is incompatible | 01:31 |
| Estel_ | (microB UI) | 01:31 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, vi_, call me stupid, but I haven't had idea, that we're able to flawlessly install addons for microB... | 01:38 |
| freemangordon | Estel_, at least ABP 1.3.10 works (though there is no "block" tab on flash animations) | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | I see | 01:38 |
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| Sc0rpius | we can't, at least not flawlessly | 01:38 |
| Sc0rpius | there's always some kind of hack involved | 01:38 |
| Sc0rpius | at least in my experience maybe nowadays is more n00b proof dunno | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | well, installed flagfox for test (small thing that show flag near address, to indicate country where server is, + show IP address on demand) | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | and obviously, as it relies on UI, it doesn't seem to work | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | although, probably, backend thing does | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | if i can find working spellcheckedr with switchable languages, I'm in heaven | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, restarting after installation | 01:42 |
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| Estel_ | only microB closing and opening, or killall browser needed? | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | or browserd? | 01:43 |
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| Estel_ | sorry for pestering You with questions | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | it's just shock to me that we can try addons like that in microB | 01:43 |
| freemangordon | killall browserd | 01:45 |
| freemangordon | killall browser | 01:45 |
| * Estel_ nods | 01:46 | |
| Estel_ | if lazarus form recovery and spellchecking are gonna work, I'm going officialy orgasmic | 01:46 |
| Estel_ | what do I need chromium for, then? | 01:46 |
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| luke-jr | why does Gitorious's wiki markup suck? | 01:48 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: how's it look so far? :P https://gitorious.org/handheld-gentoo-overlays/pages/N900 | 01:49 |
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| Estel_ | luke-jr, much better than before ;) | 01:52 |
| Estel_ | btw, small info - kernel power support ext4 for ages, so info about it being limited to ext3 is wrong | 01:53 |
| RST38h | Hehe, since Nokia started upgrading Symbian Belle with Microsoft shit, the OS has become less stable | 01:54 |
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| Estel_ | luke-jr, also, You have typo in wifi section - "start GPRS interface" | 01:55 |
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| Estel_ | overall, good beginning, I like it. Care to move it to Maemo wiki too? | 01:55 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: what's the typo? O.o | 01:55 |
| Estel_ | oh, was it on purpose? | 01:55 |
| luke-jr | what on purpose? O.o | 01:56 |
| Estel_ | I mean, start GPRS interface to run WiFi? | 01:56 |
| luke-jr | oooooo | 01:56 |
| luke-jr | thanks :P | 01:56 |
| Estel_ | np :P | 01:56 |
| luke-jr | Maemo Wiki would probably make it easier (Gitorious markdown sucks), but does it really fit there? | 01:56 |
| Estel_ | see few lines ago, kernel-power reads ext4 without problems | 01:56 |
| Estel_ | of course | 01:56 |
| Estel_ | it fit there as hell | 01:56 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: it reads/writes ext4 without a journal? | 01:57 |
| Estel_ | if ubuntu 12.04 fit there, why not gentoo | 01:57 |
| luke-jr | lol | 01:57 |
| Estel_ | yea, it reads/write like desktop | 01:57 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: I thought it was too old for that, unless someone backported it o.o | 01:57 |
| Estel_ | afaik yes | 01:57 |
| luke-jr | hmm | 01:57 |
| Estel_ | kernel-power isn't 2.6.28 at all, in reality | 01:58 |
| luke-jr | XD | 01:58 |
| Estel_ | considering all backports | 01:58 |
| Estel_ | btw hope Your subpage "modern kernel" is going to be full of magic too :P | 01:58 |
| luke-jr | I'm not sure Gentoo's power kernel is completely up to date either - I think they've been doing a lot this year? | 01:58 |
| Estel_ | of course | 01:58 |
| luke-jr | to write "Modern kernel", I'm going to have to start over with 3.4 or 3.5 :| | 01:59 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 01:59 |
| Estel_ | to take it serious, You should maintain proper gentoo branch of KP | 01:59 |
| luke-jr | ? | 01:59 |
| Estel_ | unless You want to have PITA applying all gentoo changes to kp50 | 01:59 |
| luke-jr | not really anything special needed for Gentoo | 01:59 |
| Estel_ | and every next version | 02:00 |
| Estel_ | I see. | 02:00 |
| luke-jr | gentoo's kernel is really just bugfixes | 02:00 |
| luke-jr | it would be pretty awesome if I could get Maemo running inside LXC though | 02:00 |
| Estel_ | are You sure that those bugfixes were't included in KP separately? ;) | 02:00 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: they are, which is why I don't see a point to any KP fork :p | 02:01 |
| luke-jr | (and if I find any that aren't, it makes sense to put them to main KP too) | 02:01 |
| Estel_ | so for gentoo on N900, You may just use straight upstream kp50 flawlessly? | 02:01 |
| luke-jr | right | 02:01 |
| Estel_ | yea | 02:01 |
| luke-jr | using KP 49 right now | 02:01 |
| luke-jr | only gotcha is, Gentoo needs it built with GCC 4.5 | 02:02 |
| Sc0rpius | I wonder if anyone knows here how to close the virtual keyboard in Qt or even GLIB works | 02:02 |
| luke-jr | to build kernel modules against it | 02:02 |
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| Estel_ | luke-jr, why not GCC 4.6.2 like in Maemo? | 02:02 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: it's not in Gentoo stable yet | 02:02 |
| Estel_ | I see | 02:02 |
| luke-jr | when it gets promoted to Gentoo/ARM stable, it'll automatically work for N900 pretty much | 02:03 |
| Estel_ | damn, why microB text fields doesn't have right-click context menu | 02:03 |
| luke-jr | (also, Gentoo is hardfp - not sure if that will affect kernel module linking or not) | 02:03 |
| Estel_ | I can right click on address bar and got nice context menu... | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | but on pages, it works onlhy for non-text | 02:04 |
| luke-jr | >_< | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | and text context menu is where lazarus form recovery live :( | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | luke-jr, no idea | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | and what about thumb? | 02:04 |
| luke-jr | last I heard, N900's CPU is broken for thumb? | 02:05 |
| Estel_ | thumb2, precisely | 02:05 |
| Estel_ | last You've said that, I fixed You already :P | 02:05 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon fixed it. | 02:05 |
| luke-jr | yeah, but CPUs don't fix themselves usually :p | 02:05 |
| freemangordon | aaah, not again | 02:05 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon is like chuck norris | 02:05 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 02:05 |
| luke-jr | so it wasn't really broken? | 02:06 |
| Estel_ | he fixed every N900? cpu in universe | 02:06 |
| freemangordon | it was | 02:06 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 02:06 |
| Estel_ | seriously though | 02:06 |
| freemangordon | the errata is for real | 02:06 |
| Estel_ | he found proper way to include errata fix | 02:06 |
| luke-jr | hmm | 02:06 |
| freemangordon | mhm | 02:06 |
| Estel_ | hmpf | 02:06 |
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| Estel_ | luke-jr, use the force. It makes - thumb, not force - Your executables smaller in ram | 02:07 |
| Estel_ | consider that for gentoo in N900 | 02:07 |
| luke-jr | yes, that would be handy :P | 02:07 |
| freemangordon | luke-jr: you can see thumb2 errata fix in action here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRUlJ2GXI04 | 02:08 |
| freemangordon | (Ubuntu 12.04 is thumb2 hardfp) | 02:08 |
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| luke-jr | nice | 02:09 |
| Estel_ | now most important question | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | any benefits from using Geento thumb2 hardfp over Ubuntu 12.04 with LXDE - or, other way around? | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | ...except for fact, that ubuntu was documented from very beginning, and, as a result, dozen of people are working on it, instead 1 person? :P | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | (while it was also started by 1 person) | 02:13 |
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| Estel_ | no spell checker and no lazarus for microB, due to lack of right-clickable text fields :( No orgasm here | 02:14 |
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| Hurrian | Estel_, why not ubuntu-minimal then install lxde? | 02:21 |
| Hurrian | ubuntu-desktop seems to pull in a crapload of extra stuff | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | sounds reasonable. I'm newbie in all those things, so I rely on documentation | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | those things = desktop OS'es on N900 without chroot | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | what interest me is performance, hardware compatibility etc | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | I don't even know why ubuntu, instead of minimal debian, for example | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | or archlinux or whatever | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | archlinux probably because got less packages etc, but why ubuntu with it's unity "glory", instead of good old debian? | 02:23 |
| FIQ|n900 | archlinux-arm works on n900 | 02:24 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, arch would be nice too, packaging any new packages is definitely not a problem ;) | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | if it works - quite good - on 16 MB RAM 200 mhz CPU router wrt54gl, it should in our case too ;) | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | FIQ|n900, yea, heard that | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | although I'm loss in all those hardware/kernel compatibility | 02:25 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, i'm pretty sure you're referring to embedded distros | 02:25 |
| Hurrian | i'd be hard pressed to build a full glibc userland in 16mb | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, no, base debian (without desktop enviroment) works on wrt54gl | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | hm | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | maybe | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | np idea honestly, as it's art for at itself, so I'm using openwrt there :P | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | still, why ubuntu on N900, not debian? | 02:27 |
| * Hurrian starts building chroot for rt-n16 | 02:27 | |
| Estel_ | :) | 02:27 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, no idea | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | and why specifically Ubuntu 12.04? | 02:27 |
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| Estel_ | same here | 02:27 |
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| Hurrian | cd device/nokia/n900 | 02:28 |
| Hurrian | whoops, wrong window | 02:28 |
| freemangordon | any CSS guru here? | 02:28 |
| Hurrian | here. | 02:29 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: the same reasons to use Gentoo over Ubuntu normally? :p | 02:29 |
| Hurrian | freemangordon, need help with your new site? | 02:29 |
| freemangordon | adblockplus changed behaviour to show "block" tab only when hovered over the element in v1.1 | 02:29 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: such as being able to build everything customized to the hardware | 02:29 |
| Estel_ | luke-jr, maybe, but ubuntu is using some special 2.6.37 version of kernel | 02:29 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: no reason we can't use it with Gentoo :p | 02:30 |
| luke-jr | 2.6.37 is pretty old already tho | 02:30 |
| Hurrian | freemangordon, I just disable that function, even on desktop abp | 02:30 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, what it's about this 2.6.37 so special? | 02:30 |
| freemangordon | Hurrian: want to revert that | 02:30 |
| Hurrian | lemme look into it. | 02:30 |
| freemangordon | Hurrian: how? I want "block" button always visible | 02:30 |
| Hurrian | any idea where the code may be? | 02:30 |
| freemangordon | yep | 02:30 |
| freemangordon | seems like objtabs.css | 02:31 |
| freemangordon | Hurrian: if you gonna look at it, then look version 1.3.10 | 02:31 |
| freemangordon | that is the last version supporting microb | 02:32 |
| Hurrian | freemangordon, something like hidebutton:hover{ opacity = 1.0 }; | 02:32 |
| freemangordon | let me check | 02:32 |
| freemangordon | a.%%CLASSNAME%%:hover { | 02:32 |
| freemangordon | opacity: 0.8 !important; | 02:32 |
| freemangordon | } | 02:32 |
| freemangordon | that is working version | 02:32 |
| Hurrian | move it to a.%%CLASSNAME%%{opacity: 0.8 !important;} | 02:33 |
| Hurrian | that way, you disable need to hover over it | 02:33 |
| freemangordon | ok, let me try | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so what's up, hackers? | 02:34 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, be sure to release Your work if it works | 02:38 |
| Estel_ | addblockplus is actually in repos | 02:39 |
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| Estel_ | well, noscript, actually, works, it's blocking scripts... Althouh, it's information tabs and config buttons are nowhere to be found, so no way for allowing temporaly | 02:50 |
| Estel_ | (in microB) | 02:50 |
| Estel_ | pity that lazarus for recovery and spell checking doesn't work, - I've had high hopes for that | 02:51 |
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| LaoLang_cool | Is there a way to copy an event in calendar? | 02:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | LaoLang_cool: wouldn't know of any trivial method | 03:39 |
| LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer05, ok... | 03:40 |
| Estel_ | pity that lazarus for recovery and spell checking doesn't work, - I've had high hopes for that I've 58 MB free on rootfs... | 03:44 |
| Estel_ | And I wonder wht could I move *to* rootfs, for sake of increasing performance | 03:45 |
| Estel_ | any ideas what sits in opt usually, and would benefit from NAND speeds? (i.e. isn't executable, that sits in RAM anyway) | 03:45 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, xorg? | 03:46 |
| Estel_ | isn't there already? | 03:46 |
| Estel_ | btw, xorg sits in RAM anyway, yep? | 03:47 |
| Hurrian | yeah | 03:47 |
| Hurrian | hmm, something slow, that gets unloaded a lot | 03:47 |
| Hurrian | the settings app? | 03:47 |
| Estel_ | sounds reasonable | 03:47 |
| Estel_ | now must locate, where it live ;) | 03:48 |
| Estel_ | no core system components, I suppose... | 03:48 |
| Estel_ | maybe something from easy debian? :P | 03:48 |
| Hurrian | dpkg -L (name of settings app) | 03:49 |
| * Estel_ nods | 03:49 | |
| Hurrian | also, Estel_, have you seen the new overclocking and kernel-power pages? | 03:49 |
| Estel_ | now need to determine name of settings app | 03:49 |
| Estel_ | overlocking yes, kp not yet | 03:49 |
| Estel_ | will check with pleasure | 03:49 |
| LaoLang_cool | Is there a way to export only one event? | 03:50 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, You were the one who wasn't able to get high speeds of chromium in easy debian? | 03:54 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, it wasn't me | 03:54 |
| Hurrian | I don't use chromium in the first place | 03:54 |
| * Estel_ nods | 03:54 | |
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| Hurrian | freemangordon, are you still here? | 03:58 |
| * Hurrian is curious as to why Maemo on MMC won't work with power management enabled | 03:58 | |
| Sc0rpius | wow at last | 04:01 |
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| Sc0rpius | I could finally code to close the virtual keyboard | 04:02 |
| Sc0rpius | when you press enter on it | 04:02 |
| Sc0rpius | that was HARD | 04:02 |
| Sc0rpius | it took me a whole day! | 04:02 |
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| Estel_ | :) | 04:12 |
| Estel_ | hm, strange - chromium is actualy faster, when run from within lxde, that Maemo (both easy debian one) | 04:12 |
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| Estel_ | not to mention, that context menu works even in fullscreen, when run from lxde | 04:13 |
| Estel_ | the latter was known fact - as for first, I always though it's placebo, as it seemed to me, that running without middle-man will be faster | 04:13 |
| Estel_ | although, apprently, it isn't - from within lxde it' really blazing fast | 04:14 |
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| luke-jr | Estel_: http://wiki.maemo.org/Gentoo/N900 | 04:23 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: re LXDE vs Maemo Chromium speed: I bet it's the swap | 04:23 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: Maemo uses a LOT of memory, even compared to KDE | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | luke-jr: maemo? I'd say dialer and browserd and whatnot are using a lot of RAM, due to preload and lock against swapout | 04:29 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer05: part of Maemo | 04:30 |
| SpeedEvil | A phone without dialer locked in RAM... | 04:30 |
| Hurrian | SpeedEvil, "internet tablet" | 04:31 |
| Hurrian | pretty big oversight by nokia though | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Hurrian: ?? what is an oversight? | 04:32 |
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| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, not locking the phone app in RAM | 04:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | damn, it IS | 04:34 |
| Hurrian | 31820 rtcom-call-ui | 04:35 |
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| Hurrian | oh, I guess it is | 04:35 |
| SpeedEvil | (the architechure requiring the CPU to be involved in calls, and other things are questionable too, of course | 04:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | you'll always need CPU involved into handling call establishing | 04:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. | 04:37 |
| SpeedEvil | But audio processing in a call, is arguable. | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Argh. | 04:38 |
| * SpeedEvil hates random sones from one of the 8 gadgets. | 04:38 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | indeed | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | sounds | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | the AP-centric audio concept is highly questionable | 04:38 |
| jacekowski | you need something to decompress it | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: the phone CPU does not do decompression. | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | It basically just hands off audio packets to the phone | 04:39 |
| jacekowski | well, how else would you then change destination of audio | 04:39 |
| jacekowski | it's nice thing to have all go into one chip | 04:39 |
| jacekowski | and then go out of it | 04:39 |
| jacekowski | except it should have been done in alsa directly | 04:40 |
| jacekowski | without pulsecrap | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if the one chip was the mixer, I'd agree | 04:40 |
| jacekowski | on n900, you have to send phone calls at least 4 different ways, BT, headphones, earpiece and main speakers | 04:42 |
| jacekowski | + possibly FMTX | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well, that's what mixer/codec is for | 04:42 |
| jacekowski | thing is, you have AP that can do the job | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | usually no need to pipe it thru CPU | 04:43 |
| jacekowski | and without PA it could do it easily | 04:43 |
| jacekowski | even at highest load | 04:43 |
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| jacekowski | so there is no point in adding additional electronics if you have everything you need | 04:43 |
| jacekowski | it's more of an implementaion problem than design | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you already have a mixer/codec | 04:44 |
| jacekowski | very limited one | 04:44 |
| jacekowski | anyways | 04:45 |
| jacekowski | i'm going to sleep | 04:45 |
| jacekowski | good night | 04:45 |
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| ds3 | anyone still looking into a compass for the N900? | 07:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ds3: honestly I'm afraid there are too many magnets in N900 | 08:56 |
| ds3 | DocScrutinizer05: hmmmm... I was looking at a little plugin module on the outside | 08:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | place a paperclip near the N900 and see for yourself | 08:57 |
| ds3 | I can get a magnetometer around it to measure it | 08:57 |
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| ds3 | but I suspect if the chip has a large enough dynamic range, that can be calibrated out | 08:58 |
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| k273 | http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/10/us-navy-picks-linux-for-unmanned-vtol-drones/ | 08:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for some of the magnets you can calibrate out the offset if the magnetometer chip has sufficient dynamic range | 08:59 |
| ds3 | yep | 08:59 |
| doc|home | k273: someone should hit them up for a repo | 08:59 |
| ds3 | there is a project out there about using the audio jack to interface sensors | 08:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for some you can't, like kbd slide, probably vibrator motor, stand magnet | 08:59 |
| ds3 | so a tiny little nub sticking out of the audio jack might be one way | 08:59 |
| k273 | hi doc|home, this is DocScrutinizer05 from home, right? | 09:00 |
| k273 | or no? | 09:00 |
| doc|home | k273: nope, different one | 09:00 |
| k273 | ok | 09:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 09:00 |
| k273 | ok | 09:00 |
| ds3 | DocScrutinizer05: let's say that can be made to work, is there anyone else interested in having a compass? | 09:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd bet there are | 09:01 |
| k273 | I am interested, but doubt will use it that often, | 09:01 |
| k273 | ... | 09:01 |
| ds3 | a compass would let you have a fixed orientation | 09:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sensor at AV plug has a hard time getting powered | 09:01 |
| ds3 | much rather do things Linux style instead of the Android hack | 09:01 |
| ds3 | there is a design out there that can get about 5mW | 09:02 |
| ds3 | 5mW can run some mag sensors | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, possible | 09:02 |
| ds3 | was reading a paper where someone had a full setup | 09:02 |
| ds3 | Left channel for power, Right channel for data in, Mic for data out (relative to the sensor) | 09:02 |
| ds3 | for a mag, pull power from left and right together and double the power | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd rather use USB | 09:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WAAAAY cleaner design | 09:05 |
| ds3 | but USB is much more complex | 09:05 |
| ds3 | and you need the host mode hacks | 09:05 |
| ds3 | and you loose the ability to charge | 09:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 09:05 |
| ds3 | to be really useful, the mag needs its ownaccelerometer | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1) no. 2) correct. 3) well, depends | 09:06 |
| ds3 | you got a 1 chip solution for SPI or I2C to USB? | 09:06 |
| ds3 | most 1 chip sol'n are for UART | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | several, iirc | 09:06 |
| ds3 | Oh? who? | 09:06 |
| ds3 | who makes one I mean | 09:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can bitbang I2C via FTDI chip, and that's a solution I see while not yet awake | 09:07 |
| ds3 | Hmmmm | 09:08 |
| ds3 | still remember battery life issues with host mode though...has that been solved? | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | battery life issues quite likely are system immanent: 200mA@5V | 09:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if your plug doesn't use those, they won't drain battery | 09:09 |
| ds3 | right now with my original battery, I am barely getting 4-5hours on 3G :( | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | USB controller on SoC though is also a bit of a energy hog | 09:10 |
| ds3 | maybe it is what the code did, I remember having rapid battery drain after just trying host mode. a reboot seems to fix that | 09:10 |
| ds3 | similar to what I saw on the N800 | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: 5h on 3G sounds about right | 09:11 |
| ds3 | really? | 09:11 |
| ds3 | I used to see almost 8h when it was brand new | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | depend on data volume | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pattern | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dist to BTS | 09:12 |
| ds3 | this is idle just checking email, didn't think that changed much | 09:12 |
| ds3 | does 3G vs 3.5G make a difference? | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you never know for sure about inbound data | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 09:12 |
| ds3 | I see | 09:12 |
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| ds3 | the other argument for the audio jack is, might be able to get some interest from non N900 folks | 09:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure thing | 09:14 |
| ds3 | think host mode is still rare | 09:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 09:14 |
| ds3 | and I donno of anyone selling solder on USB micro connectors | 09:15 |
| ds3 | solder on male ones that is | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | most nifty design however was the magmeter-uSD | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I got two builds here | 09:15 |
| ds3 | builds of? | 09:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one was sold to me though with comment "last one" | 09:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | USB plugs | 09:16 |
| ds3 | and that one solders onto a PCB? | 09:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 09:16 |
| ds3 | oh | 09:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'd need to come up with a non-standard design | 09:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems easy | 09:17 |
| ds3 | it'd involve gluing | 09:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | solder it | 09:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still | 09:17 |
| ds3 | the ones I have seen are not amendable to soldering | 09:17 |
| ds3 | there is a sheild blocking it | 09:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | solder the shield, connect by wire | 09:18 |
| ds3 | Ohhhh like that | 09:18 |
| ds3 | interesting | 09:18 |
| ds3 | but that'd require a pass through to handle power/charging, right? | 09:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, unless you build in a barrel connector or 2nd USB female for charger... | 09:19 |
| ds3 | hmmm that could work | 09:20 |
| ds3 | the charging current would be a nasty H field to calibrate out though | 09:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I see another argument for AV: it's more sturdy, at least on N900 | 09:20 |
| ds3 | the AV jack route looks idiot proof for prototyping... build it, check to see if there is power...then the rest is a MSP430 talking to a SPI or I2C bus | 09:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (field) not if you run VBUS and GND in parallel and close to each other | 09:21 |
| ds3 | I donno if htat is enough, saw 'issues' on another design relating to it | 09:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm rather sure the N900 itself will give you more (field) trouble | 09:22 |
| ds3 | more reason to figure a way of quicky rigging something up to test that | 09:23 |
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| ds3 | has anyone attempted the uSD mag design yet? | 09:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mini toy compass ? ;-D | 09:23 |
| ds3 | no, with real mag chips | 09:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I think SpeedEvil looked into it | 09:23 |
| ds3 | got access to a few PhDs that can help with the calibration issues | 09:24 |
| ds3 | so that part I can get help on | 09:24 |
| k273 | gtggys | 09:24 |
| k273 | cya | 09:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | as long as the fields are static and don't saturate the sensor, it's no real issue | 09:24 |
| ds3 | even opening a keyboard can be handled | 09:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I have concerns against both preconditions | 09:25 |
| ds3 | it is 'static' in a way | 09:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 09:25 |
| ds3 | I doubt the magnets on there are more then 1-2G if even that | 09:25 |
| ds3 | there are common mags out there that can handle 8-16G's of dynamic range | 09:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vib motor might be a bitch | 09:26 |
| ds3 | true...where is it physically? | 09:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | luckily vib is next to power button | 09:27 |
| ds3 | so we got stuff to the 3rd power working for us there | 09:27 |
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| ds3 | what kind of update rate on the mag is reasonable? | 09:28 |
| ds3 | 10Hz? 50Hz? 100Hz? | 09:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: | 09:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | depends I'd say | 09:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually 10Hz should be more than enough, no? | 09:29 |
| ds3 | I have seen devices with updates as slow as 3Hz | 09:29 |
| ds3 | so I just donno | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you wanna use it for Wii-like controller, you want 50..100 | 09:30 |
| ds3 | hmmm | 09:31 |
| ds3 | the problem is the faster it goes, the more power is needed | 09:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously | 09:31 |
| ds3 | each measurement is about 12bytes | 09:31 |
| ds3 | the paper for the AV interface suggests a 300bps interface | 09:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I know those from N9 | 09:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL WUT? | 09:32 |
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| ds3 | it is doing a modem with a MSP430 | 09:33 |
| ds3 | and running on like 5mW | 09:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OUCH! | 09:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd run RLL or MFM encoding straight away, via those audio lines | 09:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should at least be worth 9.6k | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably 19k | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe more | 09:34 |
| ds3 | hmmmm | 09:34 |
| ds3 | donno if enough CPUpower is available | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | definitely | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you run that msp430 at 32k clock | 09:35 |
| ds3 | how are you thinking of generating the MFM signals? | 09:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | algorithm | 09:35 |
| ds3 | through the ADC block or? | 09:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on N900 side? sure | 09:35 |
| ds3 | no, on the MSP430 side | 09:36 |
| ds3 | the N900 is pretty easy...lots of CPU there | 09:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, plain GPIO | 09:36 |
| ds3 | got a library? signal processing is not my strong suit | 09:36 |
| ds3 | I can get the HW going and do ports but..... | 09:36 |
| ds3 | I am still looking for a simple way of doing FSK decoding :D | 09:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FSK decoding way more complex than straight RLL decoding | 09:37 |
| ds3 | doesn't direct RLL require DC coupling? | 09:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 09:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's the point of RLL | 09:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wiki Run Length Limited | 09:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki Run Length Limited | 09:38 |
| infobot | At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_Length_Limited (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'Run length limited' or 'RLL' coding is a line coding technique that is used to send arbitrary data over a communications channel with bandwidth limits. This is used in both telecommunication and storage systems which move a medium past a fixed recording head. Specifically, RLL bounds the length of stretches (runs) of repeated bits during which the signal does not change. If ... | 09:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the last sentence says it all | 09:39 |
| ds3 | I looked at that | 09:39 |
| ds3 | and I don't see a lower bound on what frequency the channel must pass | 09:39 |
| ds3 | the usage of the term 'DC' is a mistake on my part | 09:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the max run length | 09:39 |
| ds3 | thinking of something like audio systems might high pass some at some frequency | 09:40 |
| ds3 | Oh you mean use the max lenght of the 0's or 1's as a limiter on the min. freq? | 09:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think usually max RL is ~5 bits | 09:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 09:41 |
| ds3 | hmm seems complicated | 09:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ??? | 09:41 |
| ds3 | wouldn't know how to pick that out of a stream sampled by ALSA | 09:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't use any limiter | 09:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you get a square wave shaped signal and you detect edges | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | simple as that | 09:42 |
| ds3 | yes but I don't see a square wave. I see a sampled version of that through ALSA. one that might be filtered and shaped by the audio circuit | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* | 09:42 |
| ds3 | this is driving the mic signal | 09:43 |
| ds3 | or do you have another way for the N900 to see that? | 09:43 |
| Sc0rpius | tmo down with Database error? | 09:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, you'll have to go the hard way and inspect your .wav for FF and 00 values | 09:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather >a0 and <30 | 09:43 |
| ds3 | OHhhhhhh | 09:44 |
| ds3 | Hmmm | 09:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or, for s16le, for positive and negative | 09:45 |
| ds3 | well... if I can get it work w/the stock 300bps modem, I'll pester you on how to get RLL going :D | 09:45 |
| ds3 | it is all sw at that point | 09:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | modem is WAAAY harder | 09:45 |
| ds3 | yes, but the folks who did it wrote the code | 09:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: | 09:46 |
| ds3 | I know how to port, I am not an expert at signal processing | 09:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see this app called, err.... magreader | 09:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all you need already in place ;-P | 09:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | incl AV | 09:46 |
| ds3 | oh okay | 09:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you will be capable of creating a signal at least as stable and exact in timing and shape as that produced by a magnet head when you pull a credit card - will you? | 09:47 |
| ds3 | yes | 09:48 |
| ds3 | is a CC strip considered to be MFM or RLL? | 09:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | technicall I guess it's lilke MFM, roughly | 09:48 |
| ds3 | I've done mag strip stuff so I understand that :D | 09:48 |
| ds3 | MFM and RLL are to me hard drive encodings | 09:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, they were mainly used for that | 09:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but a HDD is also a mag medium pulled under a magsensor head | 09:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 09:49 |
| ds3 | good point... lost sight of those ancient drives | 09:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's why they used MFM or RLL | 09:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as a coil in magnet head needs flux change | 09:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to create signal | 09:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | imanently DC averse | 09:50 |
| ds3 | yes. | 09:50 |
| ds3 | i remember that from mag strips... write HC11 code to decode them before | 09:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | 2% of net income! Plus acknowledgements ;-P | 09:56 |
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| ds3 | :) | 10:04 |
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| phryk | How can I read out a wpa key my n900 device has saved? | 12:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | stored in gconf | 12:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I posted a mini-howto to tmo long ago | 12:13 |
| phryk | tmo? | 12:13 |
| phryk | If you mean talk.maemo.org, that's apparently down. | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmmm | 12:14 |
| phryk | But I guess I can do it with 'gconftool' ? | 12:15 |
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| chem|st | o/ | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | gconftool -R /system/osso/connectivity/IAP | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | gconftool -R /|grep EAP_wpa_preshared_passphrase | 12:19 |
| chem|st | phryk: ^^ | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thanks | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | o/ chem|st | 12:20 |
| chem|st | moo doc | 12:20 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: you settled your CSS issue? | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | tmo down? Ha! | 12:21 |
| chem|st | database issues afaik | 12:21 |
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| phryk | Ah gimme a sec | 12:22 |
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| phryk | Ah that works, thanks a bunch. | 12:26 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: yeah server is back up but the db is still borked | 12:36 |
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| vi_ | TMO is down? | 12:44 |
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| merlin1991 | borked db | 12:45 |
| merlin1991 | yay | 12:45 |
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| MohammadAG | Does reggie know? | 13:17 |
| petteri | maybe it had this faulty mysql and someone stole our password hashes! | 13:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | ds3: calibration is near-trivial | 13:42 |
| SpeedEvil | ds3: problem is thickness | 13:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | You're basically looking at having to wirebond bare dies, or perhaps get away with sanding down existing magnetometer chips | 13:43 |
| MohammadAG | Tmo back!! | 13:43 |
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| vi_ | TMO back down! | 13:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | petteri: please elaborate. What's up with mysql? | 13:53 |
| petteri | https://community.rapid7.com/community/metasploit/blog/2012/06/11/cve-2012-2122-a-tragically-comedic-security-flaw-in-mysql | 13:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 13:56 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/MySQL-Datenbank-Zugang-auch-ohne-Passwort-1614987.html | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: petteri: many thanks | 14:03 |
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| jacekowski | it's not mysql problem | 14:19 |
| jacekowski | it's libc and inconsistent documentation problem | 14:19 |
| jacekowski | some man pages say it returns a char | 14:20 |
| jacekowski | some say it returns int | 14:20 |
| jacekowski | and in reality it's absolutely random | 14:20 |
| jacekowski | and for example on my system it returns -1,0,1 and only those 3 | 14:20 |
| jacekowski | it's not returning difference between those string | 14:20 |
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| jacekowski | OS community did really good job writing confusing documentation | 14:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: man memcpy, why would anybody care for the actual value, instead of just checking ==0 ? | 14:30 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer05: they do | 14:31 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer05: except they check for (char)memcpy(...)==0 | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so they do a cast to int8? | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq | 14:31 |
| jacekowski | but according to man it's supposed to return char | 14:31 |
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| petteri | on ubuntu it says int | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | int memcmp(const void *s1, const void *s2, size_t n); | 14:32 |
| jacekowski | yeah, but read the description | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/memcpy/memcmp/. | 14:33 |
| jacekowski | it says it's comparing bytes | 14:33 |
| jacekowski | and it's returning byte compare value | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it *compares* bytes | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is friggin irrelevant | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except for the way n is counting | 14:33 |
| jacekowski | and for example | 14:34 |
| jacekowski | http://www.manpagez.com/man/3/memcmp/ | 14:34 |
| petteri | max os x? | 14:34 |
| petteri | mac :) | 14:34 |
| jacekowski | BSD | 14:34 |
| jacekowski | and you have inconsistent behaviour across different linux distros | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: still returns int | 14:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Slackware manpage The memcmp() function returns an integer less than, equal to, or | 14:35 |
| SpeedEvil | greater than zero if the first n bytes of s1 is found, respectively, to | 14:35 |
| SpeedEvil | be less than, to match, or be greater than the first n bytes of s2 | 14:35 |
| jacekowski | read the description | 14:35 |
| SpeedEvil | and says nothing about the actual range | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fact is the function still is defined as int memcmp(const void *s1, const void *s2, size_t n); | 14:36 |
| SpeedEvil | It's clearly possible to assume that it's the result of subtracting each char in each input string, and returning the result if diffefrent | 14:36 |
| SpeedEvil | but that isn't specified | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't matter | 14:36 |
| petteri | jacekowski: maybe you are just one bitter mysql dev :P | 14:36 |
| jacekowski | nah, you just hit some random behaviour that makes stuff go wobbly | 14:37 |
| jacekowski | i've tried to repeat it | 14:37 |
| jacekowski | and in 9 cases out of 10 all i was getting was -1 or 0 or 1 | 14:37 |
| jacekowski | and then like every 10th try i was getting something different | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't matter | 14:37 |
| dafox | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/5.1/revision/3560.10.17 | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (<jacekowski> DocScrutinizer05: except they check for (char)memcpy(...)==0) only a fool would cast a function defined as int to a char | 14:38 |
| dafox | they're not really using the value to compute something it seems, its the return value of the function | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SHITE! again this 40s delay on clicking a URL | 14:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, they return an int in a function defined as char | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess | 14:41 |
| dafox | yes, seems my_bool is really a char | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, returning random shit to a bool (or char) is clearly something even lint would've noticed | 14:43 |
| jacekowski | it's my_bool | 14:43 |
| jacekowski | not a standard type | 14:43 |
| dafox | if it were a real bool it would've worked | 14:43 |
| dafox | but I don't really know what happens here | 14:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you should | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should take each opportunity to learn | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all hail to strict typing | 14:45 |
| dafox | I was already looking but I'm getting a lot of result for people trying to convert number-to-string | 14:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the nasty part is: all vulnerable MySQL servers may define all new passwords now | 14:46 |
| dafox | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5881895/truncating-an-int-to-char-is-it-defined | 14:47 |
| dafox | seems to explain it | 14:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | friggin c-coders never doing proper strict typeing | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you simply don't do implicit typecasts - problem soved | 14:48 |
| fasta | If everyone did proper strict typing, we would not have crashing machines anymore. | 14:50 |
| fasta | We would have machines which always worked and never failed. | 14:50 |
| fasta | Unfortunately, it seems that although everyone wants working systems, nobody builds them. | 14:51 |
| dafox | I think the problem here is treating my_bool as the builtin bool type though (different rules apply) | 14:53 |
| jacekowski | there is no bool in C | 14:55 |
| fasta | In new C there is. | 14:55 |
| jacekowski | nothing in C99 | 14:55 |
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| fasta | stdbool.h is in C99, AFAIK. | 14:56 |
| fizzie | Yes, and _Bool even without the header. | 14:56 |
| fizzie | (C99 6.3.1.2 "Boolean type".) | 14:57 |
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| vi_ | There is no bool in C? | 14:59 |
| vi_ | ORLY? | 15:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | There is no spoon in C. | 15:00 |
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| fizzie | But perhaps in C34 you can #include <stdutensil.h> and get spoon, knife and fork types. (With spork as a GCC extension.) | 15:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | Beware! http://xkcd.com/419/ | 15:03 |
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| vi_ | SpeedEvil: aaah, one of my very favourite XKCDs. | 15:06 |
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| fasta | C isn't even a formal language. | 15:09 |
| fasta | I.e. you can say some things in C, but you have no idea whether the machine will respond to it. | 15:10 |
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| fasta | And the much touted 'but then you can get more performance' is just an argument which nobody has ever backed up. | 15:10 |
| fasta | The very notion of accepting input without semantics is an extremely bad idea. | 15:11 |
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| ShadowJK | in other languages it's "you have no idea whether the implementation will conform to spec" ;-) | 15:11 |
| fasta | ShadowJK: well, not the languages I am interested in and/or using. | 15:12 |
| fasta | Well, I also use sh/perl/python at the edge of certain systems. | 15:13 |
| fasta | Still, the supposed fact that other also do it wrong, is no reason to also do it wrong. | 15:13 |
| fasta | C was just the simplest thing that could possibly work. | 15:13 |
| fasta | Where simple is defined as 'given the bias of the designers'. | 15:14 |
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| ShadowJK | One fun thing about java is the java memory model is like only implemented on one obscure machine, and basically acts like C everywhere else.. But the java model would give you much performance boost in big SMP systems... I doubt any already written code would actually work though | 15:14 |
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| fasta | The architecture we use in computers also has nothing to do with the universe. | 15:23 |
| fasta | 99.99% of programming languages instead assume this architecture. | 15:24 |
| fasta | Programming language cores could better be designed by physicists. | 15:25 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: And quite a lot of smartcards. | 15:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Way too many people don't understand underlying hardware. | 15:26 |
| ShadowJK | Well the language defines the architecture, but the real life architecture is nicer, so java unintentionally ends up behaving in a for the programmer nicer way | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | - that random access speeds have barely changed for RAM since 1985. | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | (They've dropped ~10fold, on the back of a ~millionfold expansion in size) | 15:27 |
| fasta | I am talking about something like cellular automata as a base language. | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Synchronisation is a hard problem. | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | cockless design isn't fun. | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | clock | 15:28 |
| fasta | Who cares about fun? | 15:28 |
| fasta | It's our task to create optimal devices. | 15:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Fun = tractable. | 15:29 |
| fasta | Chuck Moore created some. | 15:29 |
| fasta | Still, that's not radical enough. | 15:29 |
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| luke-jr | does N900 have any kind of un-resettable lock? | 18:34 |
| luke-jr | if so, how do I verify I have the password for it? | 18:34 |
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| chem|st | luke-jr: while unlocked you can access the storage of the lock-code which can be cracked in seconds | 18:49 |
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| _freemangordon | In the meanwhile: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84829&goto=newpost | 20:17 |
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| dafox | freemangordon: cool stuff! is this something that will eventually make its way into stable cssu? | 20:26 |
| freemangordon | dafox: it depends on the results from the testing stage | 20:27 |
| dafox | obviously :p But this is really awesome. But it would make the cssu quite big, no? | 20:28 |
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| freemangordon | if it turns out to be stable, if there are no conflicts, etc, etc, then we could start thinking. It is too early now. After all it might be that I am wring and stable thumb2 is impossible on n900 | 20:28 |
| freemangordon | dafox: no, it will make it smaller :P | 20:28 |
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| dafox | I mean, I assume ideally every [stock] application that can be recompiled would be 'updated' to this, so many more applications to install? | 20:29 |
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| freemangordon | dafox: it is not for the applications, but for the system stuff, ie bins in /rootfs | 20:29 |
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| freemangordon | It is up to application developers to decide whether to thumb-compile their SW ( reducing the user base to CSSU-devel users only) or to put the stuff in maemo-extras. On the other hand there is COBS comming, so who knows ;) | 20:31 |
| dafox | rootfs is the core system right? but wouldn't you want to recompile everything that runs? | 20:31 |
| freemangordon | yep | 20:31 |
| freemangordon | but it takes time ;) | 20:31 |
| dafox | ofcourse | 20:31 |
| dafox | I hope it works, you have my vote :) | 20:31 |
| freemangordon | then try it if you feel brave :P | 20:31 |
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| dafox | unfortunately I'm not that brave :p I use my n900 as my 'real' phone | 20:32 |
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| freemangordon | dafox: so am i :) | 20:35 |
| freemangordon | but it is up to you of course | 20:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dafox: CSSU never will force a new kernel on users, since we can't force commercial providers of kernel modules to support that kernel | 21:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the idea of CSSU is *not* to be the better new OS version, CSSU is all about keeping *original* maemo alive | 21:04 |
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| dafox | why are 'commercial providers of kernel modules' needed? can you please give me an example? | 21:25 |
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| thopiekar | hi is there a way to run whatsapp or wazapp on N900? | 22:09 |
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| vi__ | freemangordon: HOLY SHIT. | 22:23 |
| vi__ | Is there any other dogma you two want to smash? | 22:23 |
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| mira_ | hi there, is there anything wrong with maemo.org? I am absolutely unable to register an account | 22:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | mira_, you should file a bug. | 22:32 |
| * GeneralAntilles cackles. | 22:32 | |
| mira_ | :P | 22:33 |
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| vi__ | mira_: do you mean the forum? | 22:37 |
| mira_ | maemo.org | 22:37 |
| vi__ | mira_: do you mean the forum? | 22:38 |
| mira_ | yes | 22:38 |
| vi__ | talk.maemo.org is a different account from maemo.org | 22:38 |
| mira_ | I was told to wait an hour | 22:38 |
| vi__ | did you register for talk.maemo.org or maemo.org? | 22:39 |
| mira_ | maemo.org | 22:39 |
| vi__ | and you want to use talk.maemo.org? | 22:39 |
| vi__ | (the forum)? | 22:39 |
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| vi__ | mira_: ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION. | 22:40 |
| mira_ | well yes, I thought I could use the same credentials for both | 22:40 |
| vi__ | mira_: no, for some bizzare reason they use differnt login details. | 22:40 |
| mira_ | ok thanks | 22:40 |
| vi__ | So to use talk.maemo.org, go to talk.maemo.org and register there. | 22:40 |
| mira_ | okies I will | 22:41 |
| vi__ | good | 22:41 |
| mira_ | another question, is anyone experienced in using pocketsphinx | 22:41 |
| mira_ | I am working a bit on a voice control app | 22:42 |
| mira_ | the main idea is to improve the recognition rate by having several language models and using the one that depends on the app that is the foreground app | 22:44 |
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| mira_ | it works so far but I would like to have an idea about the probability that the word pocketsphinx found is the corrent one | 22:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | vi_, because SSO is difficult to implement. | 22:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | vi__, and Talk was a completely different website in the past. | 22:46 |
| fasta | mira_: are you saying you are thinking about the voice recognition problem? | 22:49 |
| mira_ | yes | 22:49 |
| fasta | mira_: why don't you first implement the current state of the art? | 22:49 |
| fasta | mira_: I'd guess that would keep you occupied for >10 years at least. | 22:49 |
| fasta | Then you can start thinking about improvements. | 22:50 |
| fasta | It's the same thing in most application areas. | 22:50 |
| mira_ | n900 doesnt have a voice control app | 22:51 |
| fasta | Google does voice recognition on extremely large datasets, and it works. | 22:51 |
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| fasta | There are likely also ways to do it with less data, but hey, it works. | 22:51 |
| fasta | nidO: so? | 22:51 |
| fasta | mira_: voice control would be really cool, but it's not 'research'. | 22:52 |
| mira_ | but dont I need to be online to use google voice control? | 22:52 |
| fasta | I wasn't implying you should use Google. | 22:52 |
| mira_ | and I never said that I would to research | 22:52 |
| mira_ | s/to/do | 22:52 |
| mira_ | there is a nice module called pocketsphinx | 22:53 |
| mira_ | that does the recognition | 22:53 |
| mira_ | but it fails very often when you have a large dictionary | 22:53 |
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| mira_ | so I want to have several small dictionaries, like every supported app has its own | 22:54 |
| mira_ | its just using the pocketsphinx module, implemting the app dependent dictionary (language model) and code the stuff to control the app (mainly by dbus), thats it | 22:55 |
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| mira_ | it works in general, but I would like to have a certain threshold of certainty, thats what I am currently looking for | 22:57 |
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| mira_ | I know many ppl dont want voice control for the N900 but I would like to dial and control navit while driving by voice control | 22:58 |
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| fasta | mira_: there is even research on that. | 23:02 |
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| Woody14619 | There's an app being developed on TMO for N900/N9 currently for this, FYI. | 23:02 |
| mira_ | yes the pocketsphinx is under development | 23:02 |
| Woody14619 | fasta: Please don't discourage people who are looking to help... | 23:03 |
| fasta | Woody14619: I am just helping him/her not to reinvent the wheel. | 23:03 |
| Woody14619 | fasta: this person is saying they're looking at options on how to bring functionality to N900 using an existing tool (pocketsphynx) | 23:03 |
| Woody14619 | fasta: They're not trying to re-invent. They're looking to build on existing tools. | 23:04 |
| mira_ | correct Woody14619 | 23:04 |
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| Woody14619 | fasta: and currently there is not an existing tool for doing this on the N900. | 23:04 |
| fasta | Woody14619: the 'application specific dictionaries'-part has some research papers on it. | 23:04 |
| fasta | I think it's more efficient to read a paper in 10 minutes than to think for a week about something. | 23:05 |
| Woody14619 | That's great... Be usefull and point those out. But don't discourage doing anything becuase it may be re-inventing. Re-inventing is part of the learning process. | 23:05 |
| fasta | Well, I didn't mean to discourage you. | 23:05 |
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| fasta | It's more awesome than most projects. | 23:05 |
| fasta | The resistor application is also awesome, btw. | 23:06 |
| fasta | The GUI is just made of genious. | 23:06 |
| Woody14619 | :) Good... so, mira_, the app currently under development can be read about on TMO, at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84753 | 23:06 |
| mira_ | fasta: I don't do any research, I just make use of existing tools | 23:06 |
| fasta | It could be improved, of course. | 23:06 |
| fasta | For example, currently it's only a one directional mapping. | 23:06 |
| fasta | It could also show the resistor colors based on the resistor and tolerances input. | 23:07 |
| mira_ | thanks for that link, I will see whether this one is better than mine | 23:07 |
| Woody14619 | mira_, They're using just such an approach right now for command interface vs general entry. | 23:07 |
| Woody14619 | mira_, also consider, it may be useful to merge both to pick up sub-sets of features each lacks that the other has... | 23:08 |
| mira_ | indeed | 23:08 |
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| Woody14619 | mira_, always easier to colaborate than compete. Especially in an open environment like N900. | 23:08 |
| Woody14619 | mira_, good luck! :) | 23:09 |
| mira_ | yeah you are absolutely right Woody14619, I just didnt find THAT one | 23:09 |
| Woody14619 | fasta, true. :) Lots of apps could be refined and added. But to do that we need people willing to put effort it. Even if some of them have to re-learn chunks or wind up making the same widget again, sometimes newer is actually better. Especially if that newer version has a maintainer, and the old one does not. ;) | 23:10 |
| fasta | Woody14619: how many n900 users are there left? 10,000? | 23:11 |
| Woody14619 | fasta, there are times I've simply scrapped an existing tool and re-written, since deciphering what was already there would have taken longer than to simply re-create it in the way I think. Especially if it's poorly written/commented source. | 23:12 |
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| fasta | Woody14619: yeah, know the feeling. | 23:12 |
| Woody14619 | fasta, in some cases user base is irrelivant. The true measure is developer numbers. And those are low, but stable right now. | 23:13 |
| Woody14619 | fasta, one can change the other dramatically. Yes. But in a 2-year old product, those numbers are now semi-static, at least in slope if nothing else. :) | 23:13 |
| fasta | I think there are also infrastructure issues which are important. | 23:13 |
| fasta | E.g. when a new critical component comes out, the rest should still work. | 23:14 |
| fasta | Backwards compatibility needs to be transparent to both users and developers on any given platform. | 23:14 |
| fasta | I have no idea how n900 does it (seems to be good), but lots of platforms fail because they either don't offer anything or fail to do those things. | 23:15 |
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| Woody14619 | fasta, agreed. But those are side-issues. One can re-write a component with an identical API if documented correctly. The problems arise when the documentation is poor or non-existent. :) | 23:16 |
| Woody14619 | Anyway.. while this is fun, I must get back to work. | 23:16 |
| fasta | Yeah, I value undocumented code at $0. | 23:16 |
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| mira_ | thanks again for helping me, I have to go (its pretty late here in germany) | 23:19 |
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| Lantizia | Lo, anyone using nitdroid who can tell me if nitdroid can still see MyDocs? | 23:30 |
| vi__ | nope | 23:35 |
| vi__ | Well yes | 23:35 |
| vi__ | but no | 23:35 |
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| freemangordon | vi_: Are you aware of any other dogma that woths smashing? | 23:58 |
| freemangordon | *woths | 23:58 |
| freemangordon | what is with my R | 23:58 |
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