IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2012-04-12

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nox-	http://mosh.mit.edu/	00:02
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Vib3	nice	00:12
Vib3	someone could add mosh to repos :p	00:13
nox-	thats what i was thinking :)	00:13
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DocScrutinizer	WTF?! my WLAN is still on the pub's AP and allegedly connected, though I left there 15 min ago and am 500m away now	01:18
DocScrutinizer	should've switched to GPRS and then to my home AP meanwhile...	01:19
DocScrutinizer	>:-(	01:19
DocScrutinizer	anybody ever seen this?	01:19
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DocScrutinizer	looks pretty fsckdup as well: /usr/sbin/mmc-mount	01:23
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DocScrutinizer	or simply:	01:24
DocScrutinizer	#!/bin/sh	01:24
DocScrutinizer	mount -t vfat -o $3,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir "$1" "$2" > /dev/null	01:24
DocScrutinizer	WTF is THAT?	01:24
DocScrutinizer	err	01:24
DocScrutinizer	sorry, ECHAN	01:25
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ShadowJK	the "right" parameters ;-)	01:35
DocScrutinizer	WLAN disaster start: http://paste.debian.net/162936/ smells like wl1251 freakout	01:37
DocScrutinizer	or I managed to drop into a race condition	01:39
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* DocScrutinizer feeds ICD2 to the hypnotoad ( www.r33b.net )		01:40
jacekowski	talking about wireless	01:40
jacekowski	i've noticed one thing	01:40
jacekowski	when i run linux on my laptop	01:41
jacekowski	it has all that regulatory domain crap and stuff	01:41
jacekowski	for wifi	01:41
jacekowski	and it somehow detects country where laptop is located at the moment	01:41
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jacekowski	because it somehow managed to detect that i'm in belgium	01:41
DocScrutinizer	umm	01:41
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DocScrutinizer	it's a hoax	01:42
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DocScrutinizer	it doesn't "detect" that	01:42
DocScrutinizer	it gets it from your TZ, LOCALE, whatever	01:42
jacekowski	nah	01:43
jacekowski	it's set to uk	01:43
jacekowski	i've started it up in belgium, and it detected belgium	01:43
DocScrutinizer	I guess you got a belgium device	01:43
DocScrutinizer	less -f <CAL>	01:44
jacekowski	i'm talking about laptop not phone	01:44
DocScrutinizer	errr	01:44
DocScrutinizer	then it's set un your wlan card	01:44
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jacekowski	thing is it detected belgium and when i was back in the uk it detected uk	01:45
DocScrutinizer	o.O	01:45
DocScrutinizer	NFC how THAT shall work	01:45
jacekowski	exactly	01:45
jacekowski	hmmmmmm	01:46
jacekowski	http://linuxwireless.org/en/developers/Documentation/cfg80211	01:46
jacekowski	802.11 country information	01:46
jacekowski	APs can provide an ISO/IEC 3166-1 country code and a channel list (with associated max tx power setting.)	01:46
DocScrutinizer	a few years ago there was an april's fool in IT mag c't, that pretended to detect where you are, and they used TZ etc to find out, rather than spinning HDD as compass	01:46
DocScrutinizer	mhm, blame AP	01:47
DocScrutinizer	nifty	01:47
jacekowski	kinda scary	01:48
jacekowski	big brother kinda scary	01:48
DocScrutinizer	why?	01:48
DocScrutinizer	tell your IP you're on your very own island and you're king there ;-D	01:48
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DocScrutinizer	s/IP/AP/	01:48
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: tell your AP you're on your very own island and you're king there ;-D	01:48
* DocScrutinizer curses a bit about yesterday's drive-by asker with his allegedly broken kbd backlight, then wanders off for chillout		01:52
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peterbjornx	back	02:17
peterbjornx	/help	02:17
peterbjornx	oopss sticky spacebar	02:17
peterbjornx	so, is there any way to flash rootfs from a bash shell with only basic unix utilities and mtd-utils + ubi utils?	02:22
peterbjornx	i have the image on the device	02:22
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djhenry	hello, I'm looking for troubleshooting assistance for my n900. Is this an appropriate channel for questions?	02:26
Neutron_	ask away, maybe it is :P	02:27
Neutron_	I am wondering if there is some little CLI application for maemo that will simply run, get the current GPS coordinates, then quit	02:27
Neutron_	I just want to be able to trace my phone in case I lose it or it is stolen or whatever, then I can SSH into it and run that, then look up the coordinates on google maps	02:28
djhenry	I'm not sure exactly what to search on for this problem. Some section of my file system is not available (the big one) and I'm not sure how long it's been gone or what I did to lose it.	02:28
djhenry	I don't remember what the mount was called	02:29
merlin1991	Neutron_: pyside exposes the qt-mobility api	02:29
merlin1991	should be easy to hack that up	02:29
merlin1991	djhenry: do you mean /home/user/MyDocs ?	02:29
peterbjornx	i dont really know about the n900 gps but usually it is exposed as a serial port interface	02:29
merlin1991	are you by any chance using cssu-testing?	02:29
djhenry	yes	02:29
djhenry	I think I'm talking about MyDocs but I still appear to have that mounted with some stuff in it	02:30
djhenry	I am using cssu-testing but I didn't realize that until after the fact. I thought I was using stable.	02:30
merlin1991	djhenry: check if you have a proper script in /etc/init.d/ke-recv	02:31
peterbjornx	also, if i am to ditch the NAND rootfs altogether and put my rootfs on the eMMC or a sdcard, what parts would i need to edit besides udev rules and preinit	02:31
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merlin1991	djhenry: if you have a symlink instead of a scriptfile follow this: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1189843&postcount=550	02:33
djhenry	I have ke-recv -> /lib/init/upstart-job and ke-recv.dpkg-new	02:34
peterbjornx	thats a symlink	02:34
djhenry	ok, I'll check it out	02:34
djhenry	tyvm!	02:34
Neutron_	I see, well I was hoping to find something ready made, I am not a programmer, so can't do much :>	02:34
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fortytwo	Neutron_: SMSCON will send you GPS coordinates in a message, maybe that would suit your purposes	02:37
Neutron_	fortytwo: interesting, I will look into that	02:39
Neutron_	hopefully it can be configured to take commands over 3G or wifi as well, so it can be found even if it the finder removes the SIM from it	02:40
Neutron_	:)	02:40
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Neutron_	I really wish nokia would have followed up the maemo platform more than they did	02:54
Neutron_	maemo was the phone/tablet OS I liked best by far	02:54
peterbjornx	yeah, it stucks that they killed it	02:55
peterbjornx	i think it was too fragile and too complicated for end users	02:55
Neutron_	yeah but that is a result of lack of support	02:56
Neutron_	with more support from nokia there could have been a larger community of developers to make user friendly applications	02:56
peterbjornx	almost did it :p	02:57
peterbjornx	ive got a n900 without usb jack	02:57
peterbjornx	and i bricked it	02:57
peterbjornx	now im trying to put maemo on sd card for it to boot	02:57
Neutron_	I see. no way to fix the USB jack?	02:58
peterbjornx	no	02:58
Neutron_	or get a semi okish connection just to reflash it	02:58
peterbjornx	this one rippedd of the traces from the pcb	02:58
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Neutron_	aaah sucks	02:58
peterbjornx	my previous one just broke the solder	02:58
Neutron_	does it take a charge then?	02:58
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peterbjornx	this one is fubar	02:58
peterbjornx	i have a external charger	02:59
Neutron_	in my country there would be a 5 year warranty on such things	02:59
Neutron_	assuming you didn't break it yourself by accident	02:59
peterbjornx	yeah they give you a N8 for it	02:59
peterbjornx	tried that trick once	02:59
peterbjornx	the law dictates 2 years in my country but my old one still had official warranty	02:59
Neutron_	which OS does the N8 have?	03:00
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peterbjornx	that new symbian os from nokia	03:00
peterbjornx	xcept for os choice and CPU its a nice phone	03:01
Neutron_	no keyboard though	03:01
peterbjornx	its got a 600mhz armv5 core	03:01
peterbjornx	that too	03:01
peterbjornx	and its locked so no linux custom roms	03:01
Neutron_	that's a real killer with new devices.	03:01
Neutron_	silly touch screen	03:01
peterbjornx	yeah	03:01
Neutron_	I'd never take that phone as a replacement for the N900.. :P	03:02
djhenry	is dsmetool -b any different than just rebooting the phone?	03:03
peterbjornx	i had no choice	03:04
peterbjornx	yeah	03:04
Neutron_	good night	03:04
peterbjornx	its more like a reset button push	03:04
djhenry	ah, it does seem quite a bit faster	03:04
peterbjornx	kernel immediately reboots instead of graceful shutdown	03:04
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peterbjornx	sometimes my desktop linux scares me	03:05
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peterbjornx	nautilus warned: could not inhibit power mgmt	03:05
peterbjornx	why the hell would a filemanager need to do that	03:05
Neutron_	do OEM nokia batteries normally have a production date stamp on them?	03:06
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peterbjornx	mine only hasa serial	03:07
Neutron_	some time ago I went and bought a new genuine battery, but it didn't really have much more capacity than my old one.. then suddenly it got so bad that I switched back to the old battery	03:07
peterbjornx	weird	03:07
Neutron_	but it might have been on the shelf for a long time	03:08
Neutron_	Li-ion batteries degrade even when they are not used	03:08
peterbjornx	they degrade worse when not used than when used iirc	03:08
Neutron_	not really sure, but they are said to be best stored at 70% of its full charge, but if you leave it over time I guess the charge dies so it degrades faster than when it is used	03:09
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peterbjornx	almost got my sdcard-rootfs to work it just wont mount /dev properly proc,sysfs dont get mounted at all	03:10
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jpinx	peterbjornx: running what os the sd card?	03:11
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peterbjornx	maemo	03:13
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peterbjornx	i got my rootfs bricked and dont have a usb jack anymore	03:13
peterbjornx	luckily i had uboot installed	03:13
jpinx	peterbjornx: nice move - hope you get it working and write up a how-to ;)	03:14
peterbjornx	how to would be hard	03:15
jpinx	all n900 usb jacks are doomed to fail one day I reckon ;)	03:15
peterbjornx	its really a bit of trial on error	03:15
* jpinx installs uboot as a precaution		03:15
peterbjornx	ive burnt thru 3 already	03:15
peterbjornx	uboot is really nice in that it also allows for loading a kernel from storage	03:15
peterbjornx	so no flasher involved but full freedom with software	03:16
jpinx	nice - will it do massive upgrades without reflashing?	03:17
peterbjornx	like what?	03:17
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peterbjornx	kernel upgrade just requires a sd card with a 3 partition layout, fat16 on the 3rd witha uboot kernel img	03:17
jpinx	my "other" n900 has the original OS version from years back ;)	03:18
peterbjornx	nice	03:18
jpinx	I bought it cheap from a guy who couldn't be assed to sort it out	03:18
peterbjornx	how much do you think a spare lcd assembly sells for ?	03:19
jpinx	he's been given an iPhone ;)	03:19
jpinx	I replaced the screen and it was all good	03:19
jpinx	the new screen cost more than the used n900 ;)	03:19
peterbjornx	well i got a working display assembly i dont need	03:20
peterbjornx	so im thinking about selling it	03:20
jpinx	"display assembly" being what - the complete slider and screen?	03:20
peterbjornx	yes	03:20
peterbjornx	ive had 3 n900s so far	03:21
jpinx	wow - shame our timing is not so good - I'd have taken that ;)	03:21
peterbjornx	1 i sent to repair for usb, got a N8 back	03:21
jpinx	I have 2 n900 - one in daily use and another to play with	03:21
peterbjornx	next one had a series of unfortunate accidents and ended up with a fried mobo	03:21
peterbjornx	3rd i bought for the mobo	03:21
jpinx	peterbjornx: what's that n8 like?	03:22
peterbjornx	nice hardware, shit cpu/os	03:22
jpinx	hmmm -- confirms what others have said	03:22
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jpinx	poor nokia - they really have lost their way now	03:22
jpinx	and their latest offering with W7 has some hiccup I hear	03:22
peterbjornx	idk but i use win8, and i gotta say, metro sucks	03:23
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jpinx	they strap the devs with such tight budgets they can't really get it right	03:24
jpinx	I know a guy who worked on maemo for the n900 and he was so apologetic, but it was lack of budget/time that screwed it	03:24
jpinx	he works for google now :/	03:25
peterbjornx	ive read the comments in the scripts	03:25
peterbjornx	there all like : XXX - This sucks but we had no time/money/we good reason	03:25
jpinx	yep	03:26
jpinx	shame really - maemo had a good chance to become the first true competitor for android	03:26
jpinx	but that's life I guess	03:27
peterbjornx	the only thing i hate about maemo is the crude init setup	03:27
peterbjornx	how they turned linux into a single user single session os	03:27
jpinx	lots of the apps have wierd behaviour	03:28
peterbjornx	dammit	03:28
jpinx	yes - they had to hack it badly to get that user thing going	03:28
peterbjornx	#exec /bin/boot_maesd	03:28
peterbjornx	errors, MALFUNCTION- Starting shell	03:28
peterbjornx	good thing that i modded it to log to fbcon	03:29
jpinx	has anyone had any success in reverting maemo to be multi user ?	03:29
peterbjornx	not yet	03:29
peterbjornx	should be possible	03:29
peterbjornx	its just lots of work	03:29
peterbjornx	and very confusing	03:29
jpinx	it'd take a lot of work	03:29
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jpinx	for dubious reward...	03:30
jpinx	apart from the satisfaction	03:30
peterbjornx	and turning maemo into a proper distro	03:30
jpinx	they must have put thumb-screws on the linux coder to make him do that	03:30
peterbjornx	or at least the first step towards that	03:30
peterbjornx	yea	03:30
peterbjornx	those pieces of script are the ones with the most of the HACK,XXX and TODOs	03:31
jpinx	ok	03:31
peterbjornx	there was intent to resolve this	03:31
peterbjornx	but instead they turned a WIP os RTM way early	03:32
jpinx	yes - I get the drift of long-term intentions to really open up maemo	03:32
jpinx	but nokia had so many problems (still has)	03:32
peterbjornx	what do you think about their new ceo	03:33
peterbjornx	bit suspicious the whole deal	03:33
peterbjornx	new ceo, ex ms employee	03:33
peterbjornx	next they embrace wp	03:33
jpinx	stinks ;)	03:35
peterbjornx	i see why my os wont boot	03:35
peterbjornx	im using meego kernel	03:35
peterbjornx	and its not loading all the modules needed for maemo	03:35
jpinx	ee's got the windos logo tatooed somewhere ;) hehe	03:35
jpinx	one of the 'Borg'	03:36
peterbjornx	yea, somethign like that	03:36
jpinx	Ooops - need the right kernel ;)	03:36
peterbjornx	im so glad i took the time to set up a preboot env on my sdcard	03:36
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peterbjornx	it provides me with a bash shell and most tools before it even mounts the real root fs	03:37
jpinx	peterbjornx: when you get the sdcard booting, dd it and put up a link ;)	03:37
peterbjornx	i will	03:37
peterbjornx	btw i also had to undo the whole mmcblk swap thingy	03:38
peterbjornx	in the new setup i will have 0 as sd, 1 as emmc	03:38
merlin1991	peterbjornx: any idea why the sawp is there in the first place?	03:38
jpinx	the real fun would be to get grub running and allow optional main card or sdcard booting ;)	03:38
peterbjornx	backwards compatibility i guess	03:38
peterbjornx	the rules file that does it is called n770.rules	03:39
merlin1991	it seems that at least blkid on maemo is haxx0red to always show the internal mmc as 0	03:39
peterbjornx	any ideas what modules maemo absolutely needs to boot	03:39
peterbjornx	?	03:39
peterbjornx	that are built in to the stock kernel	03:40
merlin1991	never checked that	03:40
jpinx	not really - I have never needed to look	03:40
merlin1991	btw I also love how a lot of gconf related stuff always says "I've been haxx0red to use xy as a loctaion"	03:40
peterbjornx	yea	03:41
jpinx	yea - lots of evidence of unhappy coders	03:41
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peterbjornx	i still gotta get used to all those alternative init's	03:41
peterbjornx	my brain is still hardwired to editing sysv style config	03:42
jpinx	dunno who wrote the intial specification that demanded maemo to be so non-standard linux	03:42
peterbjornx	maybe in systemwide aspects	03:42
peterbjornx	but the userland it provides is the most standard i've seen in stock roms for any phone/tablet	03:43
peterbjornx	and now my moms woken up	03:43
peterbjornx	dammit	03:43
peterbjornx	its 3 in the morningherr	03:43
peterbjornx	bye	03:44
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merlin1991	gotta love the 1st comment on the /. story about backtrack	03:46
merlin1991	http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/04/11/2232224/critical-flaw-found-in-backtrack-linux	03:46
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vsrinivas	hi folks! has mozilla stopped fennec maemo builds?	05:51
vsrinivas	haven't seen a build since december 18 2011, but dunno if there are other sites possible	05:55
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SpeedEvil	I don't recall a newer one	06:00
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SpeedEvil	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmhvdtX72eQ&feature=player_embedded - why texting in public is a bad idea	09:44
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qchn	hey folks.	10:24
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Timmy	Pali: hi, are you awake?	11:36
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Pali	Timmy, hi!	11:36
Timmy	Pali: morning buddy	11:37
Timmy	here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 in section of How to create bootmenu entry for U-Boot: you said create an item under /etc/bootmenu.d/	11:37
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Timmy	but there is no bootmenu.d directory in my phone	11:38
Timmy	should i create it?	11:38
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Pali	Timmy, yes	11:40
Pali	if not exist, create it	11:40
Timmy	Pali: ok thanks, and about maemo kernel dualboot, i have not installed kernel power yet, how can i install this dualboot? should i install kernel power first? or just extract the zImage of kernel power under /boot ?	11:43
Pali	install package kernel-power-bootimg	11:43
Pali	in HAM is under name linux kernel for power user (boot image)	11:44
Timmy	but it will flash the kernel power and it will replace the uboot	11:44
Pali	boot image install only zImage to /boot and modules into /lib/modules	11:44
Pali	boot image not flashing kernel	11:44
Timmy	ok , thank you :)	11:46
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MohammadAG	trumee: I have a wifi model, the 3G model can probably tether yes	12:38
MohammadAG	IOS tethers over infrastructure rather than wifi	12:38
MohammadAG	You can tether to a ps3	12:38
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qchn	Are some dudes around who tried to install a Window-Manager on their N900? Just because it's possible. :)	12:54
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Timmy	Pali: me again :D	13:32
Timmy	it worked for me,	13:32
Timmy	now, how can i create a menu entry for nitdroid?	13:33
SpeedEvil	http://fatpita.net/?i=5206 - the future	13:45
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domedan	Hi! I'm trying to install sflphone-client-gnome, but it depends on sflphone-common (= 0.9.7~ppa1~jaunty-maemo8) and the one in the respository is 0.9.7~ppa1~jaunty-maemo3, I got "deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free" in my hildon-application-manager.list (tried fremantle-1.3 but apt-get update gives me a strange message when using that) any advise how to solve this?	15:59
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FIQ\|n900	I've always wondered, why isn't the "Add exception" window (about certificates) done to use Maemo's window manager properly?	16:07
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qchn	I'd love to have mosh on my n900. :(	16:14
flux	why the sad face, seems totally feasible?	16:15
qchn	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83570 oh!	16:15
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qchn	Gnah, how can I type a ">" on my N900. :D	16:22
Sicelo	lol	16:23
Sicelo	Fn, then Ctrl (Sym)	16:23
Sicelo	or you can remap your keyboard	16:23
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qchn	Sicelo: haha, thanks.	16:24
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DocScrutinizer	domedan: I wonder why you wanna install sflphone	17:14
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Macer	do any idea on where maemo.org will move to?	17:22
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Macer	damn.. wouldn't mind unlocking olajuwon	17:22
Macer	damn guy was by far the best center that ever played	17:23
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Macer	ok maybe not the best but still	17:30
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ShadowJK	maemo.org has funding for 2012 atleast, decision on 2013 in summer	17:43
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DocScrutinizer	honestly, you're making a bit too much fuss about all that maemo.org admin stuff	17:45
ShadowJK	ya	17:46
DocScrutinizer	ok, Nokia silently let die e.g. suppl.nokia.com	17:46
ShadowJK	is it totally dead or just incompatible	17:47
DocScrutinizer	but I still guess they will boggle from discontinuing maemo.org all together	17:47
ShadowJK	because at one point a year or so ago it did become incompatible with Diablo while still working in fremantle	17:47
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: supl? seems it bitrot	17:47
DocScrutinizer	lack of administration, I guess. Probably the syslog is clogged	17:48
* ShadowJK should check if it still works on his S60v3 devices		17:49
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DocScrutinizer	or the box got rooted, or whatever	17:49
ShadowJK	iirc on Diablo the issue was something with ssl certs	17:49
DocScrutinizer	quite possible	17:49
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DocScrutinizer	though last thing I heard was it's failing for some of the geoIP'd machines only	17:50
DocScrutinizer	and suggestion been to use IP instead of URL	17:50
ShadowJK	ya	17:51
DocScrutinizer	this may have changed without me noticing though	17:51
* ShadowJK wonders if it works on N9		17:51
DocScrutinizer	last time I tested, it seemed to work	17:51
DocScrutinizer	obviously I haven't checked which supl IP it used	17:52
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harbaum	Is there a way to upload closed source to the repo? The latest version of CacheMe contains a "secret key" to access the geocaching.com Live API and thus cannot be open source anymore	17:52
harbaum	Also it's using qt mobility 1.2 and imho this isn't supported by the nokia store, is it?	17:52
DocScrutinizer	harbaum: I honestly hope there isn't	17:53
ShadowJK	isn't opera in extras..	17:53
DocScrutinizer	you can upload stuff to non-free	17:53
DocScrutinizer	no friggin closed stuff in free though	17:54
ShadowJK	yeah opera is in non-free	17:54
DocScrutinizer	the idea to upload binary to obfuscate a sekrit-key is ridiculous	17:55
DocScrutinizer	while "store" is a completely different topic now	17:56
DocScrutinizer	afaik	17:56
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DocScrutinizer	aaah, you thought you may upload blobs to store instead. Nah, there's non-free in extra repo	17:57
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ShadowJK	build one with blank key. Binary patcher in non-free ;p	17:57
domedan	DocScrutinizer: because it supports IAX2	17:57
DocScrutinizer	valid point	17:58
DocScrutinizer	thanks for explaining	17:58
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domedan	my plesure ;) got any advice on my problem?	17:58
DocScrutinizer	I guess there might be different versions in extras and *-devel	17:59
DocScrutinizer	otherwise, you might try to advice apt to ignore version conflicts	17:59
DocScrutinizer	stl like --ignore-depends or --force-yes or whatever (sorry, waiting for coffee to kick in)	18:00
DocScrutinizer	domedan: probably maemo package interface is a good starting point for you	18:01
DocScrutinizer	http://maemo.org/packages/	18:01
DocScrutinizer	also an apt-cache policy <yourpkg> may help	18:02
harbaum	DocScrutinizer: Why is it so stupid to protect a secret key that way? It leaves the app only via ssl and isn't store as a string.	18:03
harbaum	Other question: Now that the old cacheme version is severely broken, is there a way to remove it rom the repo?	18:03
DocScrutinizer	one welknown notorious concept: security by obscurity	18:04
DocScrutinizer	never worked for FOSS	18:04
harbaum	But that's how it is. Groundspeak doesn't allow me to publish the keys as such which releasing the source would mean.	18:05
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DocScrutinizer	get an GUI to config the key, offer a website where user mus register to get the key	18:05
harbaum	So every user can get access to the key and do malicious things with it?	18:06
DocScrutinizer	I mean, where from you got the key then?	18:06
harbaum	I got it by email	18:06
DocScrutinizer	so why can't I?	18:06
DocScrutinizer	and insert it to your app that's still shipping FOSS with src, and a GUI to insert that key	18:07
harbaum	Because you are not the developer of my app.	18:07
DocScrutinizer	and without that key - obviously	18:07
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DocScrutinizer	meh	18:08
harbaum	The key identifies tha application (not the user) and is in turn used to initiuate an oauth process which will _then_ give a user token	18:08
DocScrutinizer	harbaum: do whatever you like, don't hope for any help from FOSS community, particularly me	18:08
harbaum	Wow ... this is pretty hostile ...	18:09
domedan	DocScrutinizer: Thank you for the feedback, I can find the package-site I want http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/sflphone-common/0.9.7~ppa1~jaunty-maemo8/ but the .deb-file link is broken, and if I try to find an older sflphone-client-gnome I only get 404 on the .deb-packages	18:09
DocScrutinizer	domedan: dang	18:09
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DocScrutinizer	I'll have a look into it in a minute	18:10
DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	18:10
infobot	:), DocScrutinizer	18:10
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domedan	DocScrutinizer: great!	18:11
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DocScrutinizer	harbaum: encapsulate your sekrit-thingie in a minimal lib that you invoke from your open source 99.9% of app, and ship that minimal blob lib with your app, and with src in hex	18:15
DocScrutinizer	shouldn't be more than keysize + 1k	18:15
harbaum	DocScrutinizer: That way anyone can take the lib and ask it for the key. That littlle lib would have to contain the entire authentication. But in the end it also wouldn't be open source	18:16
harbaum	The general idea is funny: Convert a whole binary into a hey string which in turn is partof a source that you put under GPL ...	18:17
DocScrutinizer	friggin shit, do you really thing I wouldn't disassemble your whole silly closed blob app programtext in just the same time?	18:17
DocScrutinizer	and as well get that key?	18:17
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DocScrutinizer	think*	18:17
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harbaum	Sure you can get the key by disassembly.	18:19
Macer	i was just asking about maemo.org just because you never know when nokia might finally just go under and liquidate	18:20
Macer	:)	18:20
Macer	right now it's down another 4%	18:21
Macer	just saying	18:21
harbaum	I haven't really come up with a clever solution. I was thinking about placing the key on a server, but to access that you'd again need a secret which you'd have to store somewhere	18:23
harbaum	How do other people implement oauth clients?	18:23
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qchn	Gosh, 2hours playing around with was too much for my N900, it won't boot anymore. :(	19:03
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ShadowJK	Macer; they have enough cash for now to buy themselves	19:23
ShadowJK	or thereabouts	19:24
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DocScrutinizer	moinmoin javispedro	20:30
javispedro	moo	20:31
DocScrutinizer	scan chanlog of cssu of today, I guess you'll like what we found out and done regarding friggin msdos mtools et al	20:31
javispedro	me, what is the problem?	20:34
DocScrutinizer	less /etc/mtools.conf is one problem, dosfslabel --version another	20:36
DocScrutinizer	we decided to deprecate mtools, and get a new hopefully bugfree version of dosfslabel	20:37
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qchn	does anyone know how to repair a broken n900, simply flashing it again?	20:38
DocScrutinizer	go CSSU, go!	20:38
DocScrutinizer	qchn: err???	20:38
qchn	DocScrutinizer: mh?	20:38
qchn	it won't boot.	20:39
DocScrutinizer	qchn: don't you think it's next to impossible to answer a question as fuzzy as yours?	20:39
qchn	All I can do is watch the boot-animation.	20:39
DocScrutinizer	well, that's a lot ore of helpful info - just reflash as a first measure	20:39
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qchn	DocScrutinizer: kay, sorry.	20:40
qchn	I hope the tools are supporting apple-crap-os.	20:40
DocScrutinizer	qchn: afaik they don't	20:40
DocScrutinizer	at least not as up-to-date as linux tools	20:41
DocScrutinizer	no idea, honestly	20:41
DocScrutinizer	can't recall somebody mentioning he'd use a mac to flash his N900	20:41
Neutron_	because if someone buys a mac they also buy an iphone, not an N900, so that scenario has never turned up.	20:42
DocScrutinizer	some 2 years ago, we had quite a number of <user>-mbp in here, iirc. Also they didn't mention something I could remember now	20:43
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DocScrutinizer	qchn: anyway, look at that site - read it completely and carefully:	20:44
DocScrutinizer	~flashing	20:44
infobot	it has been said that maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	20:44
DocScrutinizer	what's not mentioned there is not supported I'd say	20:45
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: no idea what the problem with mtools is!	20:45
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: it's fsckdup by concept	20:45
javispedro	works very well here :P	20:46
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: do less /etc/mtools.conf and you'll understand it can't work "well"	20:46
javispedro	I see on the logs that you discovered that there are drive letter mappings on that file	20:46
javispedro	but "-i <imagefile/device>"	20:46
javispedro	and _I_ do use letter mappings	20:47
javispedro	you can do stuff like mcopy c:. a: as shortcuts then	20:47
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: there's o mapping for mmcblkNp2	20:47
javispedro	you do not need to add a mapping	20:47
javispedro	m* -i /dev/whatever	20:47
javispedro	and if you want to refer to the file in -i, just use "::" as drive	20:47
javispedro	e.g. mcopy -i file.img ::. c:	20:48
DocScrutinizer	we don't need friggin mcopy, we're about to change partition labels	20:48
javispedro	but actually, it would be good if you were to provide a mapping =)	20:48
javispedro	and mlabel -i does not work?	20:49
DocScrutinizer	not even looked into it	20:49
javispedro	mlabel -i /dev/mmcblkWHATEVER ::	20:49
DocScrutinizer	the idea of a mapping file and drive letters induced immediate -EWTF	20:49
javispedro	it's kinda convenience function	20:50
DocScrutinizer	then wtf does mmc-rename.sh scan that file to find out about drive letter?	20:50
javispedro	hmm? no idea about maemo specifics	20:50
javispedro	lemme check if it still does that in harm	20:51
javispedro	can't find mmc-rename =)	20:52
DocScrutinizer	meanwhile: [2012-04-12 19:39:44] <freemangordon> dosfstools_3.0.12-0cssu0 pushed on gitorious and uploaded in -devel repo :P	20:52
javispedro	well, do as you wish	20:52
javispedro	IMHO, mtools is better, but that's my $0.02	20:53
DocScrutinizer	IroN900:~# which mmc-rename.sh	20:53
javispedro	(aka nothing to worry about)	20:53
DocScrutinizer	/usr/sbin/mmc-rename.sh	20:53
javispedro	DocScrutinizer, nah, not in harm seemingly	20:54
DocScrutinizer	# convert device name to an MS-DOS-style drive letter	20:54
DocScrutinizer	L=`eval grep '\"$DEV\"' /etc/mtools.conf \| awk '{print $2}' \| sed 's/://'`	20:54
DocScrutinizer	if [ "x$L" = x ]; then	20:54
DocScrutinizer	echo "$0: could not determine drive letter"	20:54
DocScrutinizer	who cares about HARM? over in CSSU?	20:54
DocScrutinizer	or even here	20:55
javispedro	not that I have a N900 around atm.	20:55
javispedro	DocScrutinizer, can only thing two reasons they'd do that: either the version of mtools they ship does not support -i, or _some_ version of mtools in a previous NIT did not and this file stuck that way since then	20:56
DocScrutinizer	since we didn't feel like investigating (maybe not a good attitude), we for now preferred dosfslabel	20:57
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DocScrutinizer	since this is straight forward fix to stock maemo version of same prog anyway	20:58
javispedro	not arguing	20:58
RST38h	javispedro, moo	20:58
RST38h	heya doc	20:58
DocScrutinizer	hey RST38h	20:58
javispedro	I don't think I've _ever_ used mmc-rename, so not that I care =)	20:58
javispedro	moo RST38h	20:58
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: same here - I'd never ever trust HFM to mess with my partitions, and afaik for good reason, seems it never really worked that reliably anyway	20:59
ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/12/nokia_plan_b/	20:59
DocScrutinizer	make that HFM, hal, ke-recv et al	20:59
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DocScrutinizer	OOOOOH a PLAN-B again	21:00
DocScrutinizer	long time no see! ;-P	21:00
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ruskie	DocScrutinizer, more like they need it	21:02
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DocScrutinizer	more like "Nokia is doomed anyway"	21:04
DocScrutinizer	unless some brilliant head understands to unleash the cryo-hibernated potential of maemo	21:05
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bindi	new maemo phone with qwerty and blazing fast speeds	21:06
bindi	i'm sold	21:06
* bindi prepares to sell his flagship android phone		21:06
ruskie	I'd actually be happy with a gnu+linux based featurephone	21:06
ruskie	preferably with a 7day standby time	21:06
DocScrutinizer	ruskie: strip down maemo fremantle to what you get with a featurephone, and I guearnatee you get 7 days standby	21:08
DocScrutinizer	guarantee*	21:08
ruskie	considering I already get 4days with the n900 ;)	21:08
ruskie	and I just got it a fresh battery last week	21:09
DocScrutinizer	just kicking out mail, all widgets like weather etc, skype and other nonsense, and you probably are there already	21:10
DocScrutinizer	add a real non-fsckdup auto-disconnect, to avoid GPRS inbound taffic hogging modem TX, and done you are	21:11
ruskie	most of that I already have	21:11
ruskie	don't have weather	21:12
ruskie	don't have skype(removed)	21:12
ruskie	don't have mail auto checking	21:12
ruskie	auto-disconnect but I usually manually disconnect anyway	21:12
* DocScrutinizer still needs to kick modest		21:12
ruskie	still do switch 2/3/3.5g	21:13
ruskie	but as said... I get 4 days more or less easily out of it(according to battery eye)	21:13
DocScrutinizer	ouch	21:14
ruskie	though in the last 6 months it was dropping to 2 days max	21:14
ruskie	hence the new battery	21:14
DocScrutinizer	apt-get remove --purge battery-eye and you'll get 7 ;-P	21:14
ruskie	heh that bad?	21:14
ruskie	I already have most apps set to never pre-launch	21:15
DocScrutinizer	hey, battery-eye needs to do quite some stuff on a scheduled basis	21:16
DocScrutinizer	on a pretty idle system like yours it will create 50 to 80 % of cpu load	21:16
ruskie	so does cronjob	21:16
ruskie	though considering it sleeps between jobs not an issue	21:16
DocScrutinizer	not alarmed	21:16
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ruskie	fcrontab	21:17
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ruskie	fcron eve	21:17
ruskie	n	21:17
ampharos	We poor N800 users are always neglected. Never anything going on in the N800, always N900	21:17
DocScrutinizer	aiui libalarmd which alarmed is using just uses hw-clock alarm for timer	21:17
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DocScrutinizer	fcron afaik is not using libalarmd, thus is hogging CPU with frequent wakeups	21:18
ruskie	nope	21:19
ruskie	it's sleeping	21:19
DocScrutinizer	possibly every second	21:19
ruskie	it's smart about that	21:19
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ruskie	it actually sleeps until it has a job	21:19
DocScrutinizer	mhm, good then	21:19
ruskie	which is why I like it	21:19
DocScrutinizer	well, alarmed does same	21:20
ruskie	is there an alarmedcron?	21:20
DocScrutinizer	alarmed is an app	21:20
ruskie	yeah am aware of that	21:21
DocScrutinizer	with proper cron-alike cmdline syntax	21:21
DocScrutinizer	courtesy DocScrutinizer	21:21
ruskie	would just find it more interesting if it was cron-like to use	21:21
DocScrutinizer	like in crontab?	21:22
ruskie	yup	21:22
Sicelo	ampharos: ?	21:22
ruskie	hmm already have 2g only unless data connection setup	21:22
DocScrutinizer	I suggested to augment it to monitor the files of cron(tab) and also store jobs there	21:22
ampharos	Anything (esp. modern) about NITs online and/or Maemo is basically N900 only	21:23
DocScrutinizer	but since we have no proper crontab either, at least in stock maemo, why would I (as user) want it and prefer it over a nice GUI like alarmed has	21:24
ruskie	to each their own	21:24
ruskie	which is why I like maemo so much	21:24
DocScrutinizer	sure	21:24
DocScrutinizer	anyway you can set up an alias for alarmed to get a cmdline editor version of crontab	21:26
DocScrutinizer	it's just lacking the vi frontend	21:26
DocScrutinizer	you could emulate that via crontab+diff I guess	21:27
ruskie	ehh I'll survive with fcron	21:28
ruskie	but did get rid of battery-eye to see if it will change anything	21:28
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Vib3	fcron eats more battery than alarmed? :o	21:29
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ruskie	who said that?	21:29
Vib3	understood that from DocScrutinizer's talk	21:30
Vib3	< DocScrutinizer> fcron afaik is not using libalarmd, thus is hogging CPU with frequent wakeups	21:30
Vib3	or did I understood wrong?	21:30
ruskie	read further	21:31
ruskie	don't take stuff out of context ;)	21:31
ruskie	fcron sleeps between jobs	21:31
ruskie	it knows how long it needs to sleep	21:31
ruskie	and only wakes up when it has something to do	21:31
Vib3	ok	21:31
DocScrutinizer	and since maemo is a smart OS, the sleep that'S used for that is mapped to libalarmd	21:32
DocScrutinizer	even if fcron doesn't directly use libalarmd	21:32
DocScrutinizer	aiui	21:32
DocScrutinizer	or rather, timers in maemo are special, and not quite like on any arbitrary desktop linux	21:33
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DocScrutinizer	anyway	21:42
DocScrutinizer	ruskie: you could check elapsed CPU time for a fcrond(aemon) that's supposed to idle	21:42
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DocScrutinizer	you could also run powertop for an extended observation period (I gather it can do way longer check periods than the default 30(?) seconds)	21:43
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DocScrutinizer	IroN900:~# powertop --help all ->> -t %d Sample interval	21:45
ruskie	I'll check the time once I get something for it on the system	21:45
ruskie	top and ps on the n900 by default seem to not have anything interesting	21:46
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DocScrutinizer	anyway there's one elementary difference between fcron and alarmed afaik: I guess fcron has a daemon at all, alarmed doesn't need that as it uses generic (lib)alarmd functions, which load any additional executable into RAM and execute it on demand only	21:48
DocScrutinizer	so alarmed doesn't even show up in a 'usual' ps or top or powertop	21:49
DocScrutinizer	I'd say that makes it probably hard to beat it regarding powerconsumption and resources needed at large, during 'idle'	21:51
DocScrutinizer	while for fcron all that maybe is no concern as well, but for sure needs check to get some reliable figures	21:51
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ledIgaga	Hi, if i run gcc or g++ on file with only main func i get these, /var/tmp/ccGIy4WU.s: Assembler messages:n/var/tmp/ccGIy4WU.s:46: rdhi, rdlo and rm must all be different, a.out is working though	22:06
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peterbjornx	hello	22:42
peterbjornx	so, anyone here?	22:44
ledIgaga	peter NOBODY	22:45
peterbjornx	that theres people in the room doesnt mean anyone is active	22:46
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peterbjornx	so what binary/script handles cgroup in maemo	22:48
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DocScrutinizer	errr	23:16
DocScrutinizer	peterbjornx: a bit more context might help	23:16
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DocScrutinizer	TADAAA 304 users :-)	23:18
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DocScrutinizer	305 :-D	23:18
peterbjornx	well im trying to run maemo with the meego kernel	23:19
peterbjornx	and its freezing with errors on cgrp	23:19
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MohammadAG	trumee: Pong	23:20
trumee	MohammadAG: can ipad wifi model tether to an N900?	23:20
MohammadAG	To?	23:20
DocScrutinizer	peterbjornx: this won't work	23:20
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peterbjornx	why not?	23:20
MohammadAG	And where would it get the original connection?	23:20
trumee	MohammadAG: ipad <>N900<>3g	23:21
DocScrutinizer	maemo kernel is... special	23:21
peterbjornx	i've got it to Xorg	23:21
MohammadAG	N900 to iPad?	23:21
MohammadAG	The iPad supports ad hoc	23:21
trumee	MohammadAG: i have 3g connection on N900, and want ipad to use N900 internet	23:21
MohammadAG	JoikuSpot or MobileHotspot	23:21
trumee	MohammadAG: cool	23:22
MohammadAG	There's nothing special about the iPad wifi	23:22
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trumee	MohammadAG: how about tethering over usb or bluetooth, is that possible?	23:22
DocScrutinizer	iPad and USB???	23:22
MohammadAG	Yes	23:22
DocScrutinizer	well	23:22
peterbjornx	does the ipad support any kind of usb networking	23:23
MohammadAG	Umm wait	23:23
DocScrutinizer	I didn't know it had any receptacles at all ;-P	23:23
MohammadAG	I meant you can tether the ipad's 3G connection over wifi bt and USB	23:23
trumee	MohammadAG: right. The ipad i have is wifi only model and still packaged so i dont know what ports it has :)	23:24
peterbjornx	it should be possible to hack something together	23:24
DocScrutinizer	seriously, does iPad support USB host?	23:24
peterbjornx	tethering usually works via usb net	23:24
MohammadAG	There's some accessory for it DocScrutinizer	23:24
MohammadAG	Costs a fortune	23:25
DocScrutinizer	aaah	23:25
DocScrutinizer	I bet	23:25
peterbjornx	so it should be bidirectional if you can trick the ipad to use the n900 as gateway	23:25
MohammadAG	It's for cards afaik	23:25
DocScrutinizer	or you use h-e-n and iPad as USB gadget ;-P	23:25
MohammadAG	The ipad's connectors have a bit of proprietary in them	23:26
MohammadAG	Like the 3.5mm jack have a guitar amp	23:26
DocScrutinizer	they got WHAT?	23:26
DocScrutinizer	3.5AV has a guitar amp?	23:27
MohammadAG	Accessory*	23:27
MohammadAG	Has*	23:27
peterbjornx	so whats so special about the maemo kernel	23:27
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: please rephrase :-)	23:27
DocScrutinizer	peterbjornx: some ABIs/APIs	23:28
MohammadAG	The 3.5AV can take a guitar as input	23:28
DocScrutinizer	some sysfs	23:28
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peterbjornx	i've run into some of those already	23:28
MohammadAG	With some fortune costing accessory	23:28
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: the iPad's?	23:28
peterbjornx	the whole getbootstate shit	23:28
MohammadAG	Yes afaik	23:28
DocScrutinizer	wow	23:28
MohammadAG	For GarageBand	23:28
peterbjornx	i made a workaround for that	23:28
MohammadAG	The iPad's connector at the bottom can be a host for many accessories too	23:29
MohammadAG	Though again, they cost a lot	23:29
DocScrutinizer	peterbjornx: I'm not aware of all the incompatibilities, it boils down to meego kernel's version being "too new"	23:29
peterbjornx	i fixed the GPU usermode shit	23:30
DocScrutinizer	so the incompatibilities basically are all that's changed from 2.38? to whatever 3.0? meego is using	23:30
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DocScrutinizer	err 2.6.28	23:31
peterbjornx	im using the 2.6.37 is what im using	23:31
MrPingu	Hmm iptables seem not to like pk50?	23:31
DocScrutinizer	:-(	23:31
DocScrutinizer	ping pali	23:31
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NIN101	peterbjornx: did you use pali's /proc/bootreason patch?	23:34
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peterbjornx	no i just modified preinit	23:39
peterbjornx	STATE=BOOT	23:39
peterbjornx	and the dsme event.d script	23:40
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NIN101	hmm	23:41
NIN101	did you recompile the kernel to support write on ubifs?	23:42
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MrPingu	sorry my bad, iptables seem to work fine... I was doing it from the wrong terminal(chroot)	23:42
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peterbjornx	no, i got rootfs on sdcard	23:44
NIN101	ah ok.	23:44
peterbjornx	i kinda broke my rootfs and i have no usb port	23:44
peterbjornx	luckily i had uboot	23:44
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peterbjornx	found the problem, its stuck in rcS-late	23:53
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