IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-02-11

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DocScrutinizer	I still wonder how to teach xterm to use shift-ctrl-c for copy, and shift-ctrl-v for paste	00:19
DocScrutinizer	or is this already implemented and just a matter of unbinding the key combo from bash, so it would get forwarded to xterm?	00:20
ShadowJK	if it could be made to believe that shift-ctrl-c is shift-delete etc	00:20
ShadowJK	no, xterm gets it first, then passes on to bash	00:20
DocScrutinizer	I thought as much, yeah	00:20
DocScrutinizer	but wait! you say shift-delete is implemented in xterm?	00:21
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DocScrutinizer	shift-insert	00:21
DocScrutinizer	btw on my desktop shit-ctrl-v works in Konsole	00:22
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ShadowJK	no i'm just guessing	00:23
ShadowJK	because it's this ancient arcane shortcut	00:23
ShadowJK	actually not that old, dos	00:23
ShadowJK	yeah it doesn't work on my desktop ;P	00:23
DocScrutinizer51	so you're using gnome I guess? ;-D	00:24
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ShadowJK	xfce	00:42
ShadowJK	Fedora Core 10 ;P	00:42
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ShadowJK	I booted liveUSB on my laptop of ubuntu and fedora current versions, and vomited. I'll have to gather up some strength to tackle upgrade at some point,	00:43
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infobot	DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!	01:21
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DocScrutinizer	!seen infobot	01:34
DocScrutinizer	umm	01:34
DocScrutinizer	povbot: seen infobot	01:34
povbot	DocScrutinizer: infobot was last seen in #maemo 12 minutes and 50 seconds ago: <infobot> DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!	01:34
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: yeah, same here. Today I tried to swap friggin MX mouse for a non-broken replacement. The experience made me reconsider where to buy my next laptop	01:41
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DocScrutinizer	I bought the crap a week ago there. Took them 20 min to come up with the info that they can swap for a new working mouse only if I bring the invoice plus ALL the rocks (mouse, kbd, CD, original package) of this friggin MX5500	01:43
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DocScrutinizer	made me wonder if for a laptop they'd require me to re-install wincrap before they would swap it if anything was utterly wrong within 4 days	01:44
DocScrutinizer	btw eems we lost ~10% users here in this chan during the last few days :-o	01:48
DocScrutinizer	almost down to #meego user counts	01:48
Hurrian	@Doc: that's because people like to hang around on tmo more, for some reason	01:48
DocScrutinizer	EEEEEK	01:48
DocScrutinizer	the world's about to end	01:49
Hurrian	although, we're not getting to #meego level user activity	01:49
DocScrutinizer	I hope so :-D	01:49
Hurrian	on a side note, i tried using compcache again, with 120512KB disk size	01:50
Hurrian	it ran funderfully	01:50
Hurrian	until the swap space was filled	01:51
Hurrian	at that point, it was a nightmare	01:51
Hurrian	i'm guessing only certain apps should be allowed to swap out into compcache	01:52
Hurrian	preferably, everything hildon and the dialer. user apps can go swap in slow emmc/sd.	01:53
Hurrian	how this can be done without serious LD_PRELOAD abuse is beyond me	01:53
DocScrutinizer	basicaly my take on that is: optimize crappy hoggy apps	01:55
DocScrutinizer	hell, I ran full featured KDE incl openoffice on machines with less ram and slower CPU	01:56
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Hurrian	by that, you mean move away from qt into gtk for fremantle apps, because gtk is native, and qt isn't	01:58
DocScrutinizer	though I admit upgrading my desktop P-II300 from 256 to 496MB RAM made a hellufalot of difference	01:58
Hurrian	using qt doubles the amount of toolkits in memory. seriously, pick just one, guise.	01:59
DocScrutinizer	and startup times for OOo on that panasonic toughbook with 300MHz CPU and just 192MB RAM were not for the nervous	01:59
Hurrian	LO starts pretty fast on the N900, if your easy-debian partition isn't on the eMMC.	02:00
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DocScrutinizer	then otoh I don't plan to use OOo on N900, and wth needs dialer or contacts or whatever even more RAM than OOo?	02:00
DocScrutinizer	there's still something very fishy with uSD. A few days ago I tried to cp a few tens of k of files to the device via ass rage mode, total size ~1.5GB, it was slooow like molasses	02:03
DocScrutinizer	would've taken hours to complete	02:03
DocScrutinizer	so filling a 32G card would take days, via wincrap file explorer	02:03
DocScrutinizer	this can't be normal	02:05
DocScrutinizer	esp since load applet neither showed any remarkable CPU load on N900, nor any concerning swap filling	02:05
DocScrutinizer	this whole thing still is so extremely odd, and seems nobody has investigated to the gory details yet	02:09
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ShadowJK	My "vomited" comment was actually about how ubuntu/fedora looks today, not about the hardware it was running on :P	02:10
DocScrutinizer	gathered as much. Nevertheless it made me aware of installing recent distro session awaiting me for new laptop	02:11
ShadowJK	hehe	02:12
DocScrutinizer	and hell, I'm not happy about that perspective	02:12
ShadowJK	I think I settled on fedora kde	02:12
ShadowJK	or maybe it was kubuntu, I forget.	02:12
DocScrutinizer	esp since after ~10 years a completely new fresh ~/ is due	02:12
ShadowJK	where "settled on" means that it's the distro on liveusb I carry with me for fixing people's broken windows computers	02:13
DocScrutinizer	a friend's Amilo refuses to boot from USB stick :-/	02:13
ShadowJK	How does compcache work when it gets full? Does it work like another level or LRU between RAM and real swap?	02:14
DocScrutinizer	she asked me to build a 'save Os' for her	02:14
ShadowJK	Or is it more like a swap space with higher priority than the real swap?	02:14
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ShadowJK	and wtf is "ass rage" mode?	02:15
DocScrutinizer	afaik maemo doesn't support swap prio	02:15
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DocScrutinizer	mASS stoRAGE MODE	02:15
ShadowJK	busybox "swapon" doesn't	02:15
ShadowJK	kernel does	02:15
DocScrutinizer	mhm	02:15
DocScrutinizer	~messybox	02:15
infobot	messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils	02:15
DocScrutinizer	...and not even that	02:15
ShadowJK	I had already compiled swapon during chinook days, and just scp'd the binary to my N900 first week I had it	02:16
DocScrutinizer	chinook, dang!	02:16
ShadowJK	Regardless, the default behaviour is that new swap areas that you add appear at lower priorities relative to existing :P	02:16
DocScrutinizer	umm they do?	02:17
ShadowJK	yeah	02:17
ShadowJK	or at higher	02:17
* DocScrutinizer snorts		02:17
ShadowJK	I forget	02:17
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ShadowJK	but they don't end up equal	02:17
DocScrutinizer	now that's a 'nice' feature	02:17
DocScrutinizer	~hail messybox	02:18
* infobot bows down to messybox and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"		02:18
ShadowJK	normal swapon has same behaviour	02:18
ShadowJK	If you don't specify priority, it picks current-1	02:18
ShadowJK	might be a kernel feature actually	02:18
DocScrutinizer	whatever, with messybox you'd never even know	02:19
ShadowJK	cat /proc/swaps	02:19
DocScrutinizer	or is there some /proc node to learn about current prio of swap?	02:19
DocScrutinizer	;-D	02:19
ShadowJK	My first linux experience was on a single-floppy distro that had replaced most basic utilities with simple shell scripts ;P	02:20
DocScrutinizer	LOL	02:20
ShadowJK	so my baseline is to poke /proc manually :D	02:20
DocScrutinizer	minix?`	02:20
ShadowJK	tomsrtbt	02:20
DocScrutinizer	grblsxtrxwtf?!##	02:20
ShadowJK	isn't minix Tanenbaum's educational unix?	02:20
DocScrutinizer	yep	02:20
ShadowJK	tomsrtbt is so old, that it lists tucows as a mirror. When did tucows die btw?	02:21
DocScrutinizer	hard to remember what tucows actualy was ;-D	02:22
ShadowJK	This software download site in the 90s	02:22
ShadowJK	full of "shareware" software	02:22
DocScrutinizer	my muscle memory seems to remember typing the word some time back	02:23
ShadowJK	It'd be the place where you downloaded netscape 2.0 Gold from	02:23
DocScrutinizer	probably on Amiga1000	02:23
DocScrutinizer	maybe not though	02:23
DocScrutinizer	IIRC my Amiga had no real internet ever	02:24
ShadowJK	Yeah mine didn't	02:24
ShadowJK	I only had fred fish mail order :P	02:24
DocScrutinizer	fishdisks \o/	02:24
DocScrutinizer	dang those were the times, where your computer made you meet friends	02:25
DocScrutinizer	in RL	02:25
DocScrutinizer	once a week, for a fishdisk copy party	02:26
DocScrutinizer	with a second external floppy drive this was real fun	02:27
ShadowJK	Here it didn't mean meetings	02:27
ShadowJK	distances too large between computer users :P	02:27
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DocScrutinizer	I modded the drive with a manual "external" write protect switch, and a write indicator 2color LED	02:27
DocScrutinizer	only 5km to next amiga user here, back when	02:28
ShadowJK	did however result in snailmail fish disk copying	02:28
ShadowJK	and snailmail attempts at obtaining blank floppies	02:28
ShadowJK	there was always a shortage of floppies	02:29
DocScrutinizer	do you remember that awesome though never coming true VHS tape storage project?	02:29
ShadowJK	lol	02:29
ShadowJK	and bubble mmeory	02:29
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ShadowJK	I remember this one time one of my contacts managed to source 10 floppies for me	02:30
DocScrutinizer	they offered to ship the coder hw with a VHS holding several HUNDRED MB of shareware, WTF!	02:30
ShadowJK	it seemed like a storage amount that'd last a few years at the time :P	02:31
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DocScrutinizer	yeah	02:31
ShadowJK	then 4 of them turned out to be bad :(	02:31
DocScrutinizer	ouch	02:31
ShadowJK	It's kind of amazing that despite the flooding in thailand, you'd still and are still able to just go out and buy a harddrive from wherever	02:32
ShadowJK	at a higher price, sure, but it's not like it's impossible to get	02:32
Hurrian	i've been salvaging hard drives from old machines as of late	02:32
Hurrian	going to junk shops, taking RAM and HDD	02:33
Hurrian	prices of HDDs here are up 150%	02:33
ShadowJK	that's not so bad	02:33
Hurrian	uhh, they're now 150% of old price, not 150% higher ;)	02:33
ShadowJK	In my brain I was assuming 300%	02:33
DocScrutinizer	I'm off for some booze now, as that'S what I planned to do since I came home from that friggin windoze daywork 6h ago	02:34
ShadowJK	I had my reset bottle a while ago :) Pissed off getting criticized at work for actually improving efficiency and increasing productivity	02:34
ShadowJK	apparently it makes other people look lazy.	02:34
ShadowJK	So it's a bad thing to do.	02:35
DocScrutinizer	yeah :-((((	02:35
DocScrutinizer	been there, felt that	02:35
Hurrian	welcome to upper management	02:36
DocScrutinizer	"no, you're not supposed to write a shellscript to do that ever-same editing job week for week"	02:36
DocScrutinizer	meanwhile I think "meh, I'll write it anyway, I'll just not tell YOU :-P"	02:37
ShadowJK	hah	02:37
DocScrutinizer	don't forget the proper sleep commands in the loops, so the job is no faster than you were, just running unattencded ;-P	02:38
ShadowJK	Luckily when I was at that point, replacing manual work with shell script, the output was to be delivered as 5000 sheets of paper	02:40
ShadowJK	so it was enough if I looked busy for half a year.	02:41
DocScrutinizer	actually a poor joke, I was suposed to copy the length in milliseconds for a few hundred audio samples from a excel sheet to a .c file into a structure	02:41
Hurrian	soundboards?	02:41
DocScrutinizer	yep	02:41
DocScrutinizer	voice navi	02:41
DocScrutinizer	navi voice guidance	02:42
ShadowJK	why was that in an excel sheet to begin with..	02:42
DocScrutinizer	because at the studio where they recorded the samples they used a excel sheet to write down the length of every sample	02:43
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DocScrutinizer	"left" 377; "right" 418; "turn" 321;	02:44
DocScrutinizer	those durations were hardcoded in the guidance sw then (!!)	02:45
DocScrutinizer	by me...	02:45
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DocScrutinizer	every week again	02:45
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DocScrutinizer	sometimes just for one language, sometimes for maybe 8 or 13	02:46
ShadowJK	cat left turn in five hundred meters \| audioplay	02:46
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	02:46
ShadowJK	but someone had to make it difficult :P	02:46
Hurrian	that seems like the wrong approach to do things. why not write up a func to play the wav, then just pass the words to be played as args?	02:46
DocScrutinizer	nah, they had one large chunk of audio, and played excerpts	02:47
DocScrutinizer	less padding in filesystem	02:47
Hurrian	shocking	02:47
ShadowJK	so the milliseconds described where in the huge file the desired phrase was? :)	02:47
DocScrutinizer	yep	02:47
Hurrian	i assume they were using fat/fat32?	02:47
DocScrutinizer	prolly	02:47
ShadowJK	I know tomtom uses/used fat on ext on fat on ext on fat on ext	02:48
ShadowJK	or something like that	02:48
DocScrutinizer	I think this was even pre-tomtom	02:48
DocScrutinizer	last millenium	02:48
ShadowJK	Apparently they had a "user tries to upgrade firmware, then yanks SD card" usecase which they repeated 10 times and the requirement was that the device would sitll boot	02:48
ShadowJK	and the only thing that survived was some weird loop file on ext on fat thing..	02:49
DocScrutinizer	haha	02:49
DocScrutinizer	well, on those devices I worked for they had CDs to upgrade	02:50
ShadowJK	must've been volvo or bmw :)	02:50
DocScrutinizer	and basically the CD was supposed to stay in that radio as long as you wanted to use navi	02:50
ShadowJK	Ah, in that case a big monolithic file has advantages in giving you predictable seek behaviour :)	02:51
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: I think they both used that Siemens/VDO stuff	02:51
DocScrutinizer	actually half a dozen of car manufs used it	02:52
ShadowJK	Alltogether all car owners I've talked to have hated it	02:54
ShadowJK	not because of features or whatever	02:54
ShadowJK	but because it costs a good 2000E to update maps each time :P	02:54
DocScrutinizer	yeah	02:54
DocScrutinizer	anyway the voice was the best I ever heard on any voice guidance	02:57
DocScrutinizer	samples recorded at some university for media and acoustics	02:58
DocScrutinizer	by a really internationally acknowledged professor and his tudents, with carefully selected native speakers	02:59
ShadowJK	It generally works well when the system is designed ground up for a specific language	03:00
ShadowJK	but then when it gets translated it usually falls apart in some ways	03:01
DocScrutinizer	yeah, the wicked differences between some of the languages this system supported were giving the narrator coders some headaches	03:02
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DocScrutinizer	when suddenly you got no structure like "in <distance> <unit>, go <direction>" but rather sth like "please do <distance+direction> <action>"	03:04
ShadowJK	Yeah don't forget to account for all the sandhi effects at word boundaries ;P	03:04
DocScrutinizer	yep	03:05
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DocScrutinizer	I know (or knew) each friggin nasty detail of that topic :-D	03:06
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ShadowJK	lol	03:08
ShadowJK	Linguists hardly know	03:08
DocScrutinizer	well, I knew as much as I reasonably could know	03:09
DocScrutinizer	the prof gave me a day crashcourse	03:10
DocScrutinizer	on a level starting where publicly available knowledge ended	03:11
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mattcen	Hi all. I'd like to reflash my N900 (first time), but am paranoid I'll use the wrong images. I got my N900 in Australia, so I assume I need RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin. Could anybody confirm this please?	07:06
Hurrian	yes	07:07
Hurrian	that would be correct.	07:07
mattcen	Awesome. And I flash with VANILLA, followed immediately by COMBINED?	07:07
Hurrian	yes.	07:08
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mattcen	Cool. Thanks Hurrian.	07:09
* mattcen prepares to get started. I always get nervous when flashing any sort of firmware :S		07:09
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beford	~firmware	07:28
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, firmware is hardware that is beginning to melt Firmware for GrandStream phones is at http://www.hellofone.com/files/	07:28
beford	~updating	07:28
beford	~flashing	07:28
infobot	maemo-flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	07:28
beford	:d	07:28
mattcen	That hellofone link is obsilete :)	07:29
mattcen	obsolete*	07:29
Macer	heh	07:30
Macer	most things are obsolete	07:30
Macer	i'm surprised nokia is still hosting maemo.org	07:30
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Macer	you would think after preparing to fire thousands of workers and moving all its factories to asia to make flimsy disgusting future phones that they would cut corners anywhere they could	07:31
Macer	why the hell are e7s so expensive all of a sudden?	07:33
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Macer	i was waiting for it to hit 300 and it shot back up past 400	07:35
Macer	heh	07:35
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* mattcen wipes his brow. Well that flash was relatively painless.		08:15
mattcen	Odd. After flashing and subsequently connecting to my wifi AP, it doesn't seem to retrieve a DNS server via DHCP...	08:25
mattcen	Ah, nevermind; looks like I was just doing it wrong	08:28
mattcen	So So it's a bit unclear. Should I do a full package update from the default Nokia repos before installing the Community SSU?	08:32
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Hurrian	no need to do so.	08:35
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mattcen	OK then. Thanks.	08:36
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Macer	i still have to flash my n810 lol	09:25
Macer	and figure out how to get debian on it	09:25
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Macer	some of these mini-itx boards are amazing	09:25
Macer	i need to build one soon	09:25
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Macer	maybe 2	09:25
Macer	they have an intel one that goes up to 7GB and an quad core i5	09:26
Macer	in a mini-itx.. that's great	09:26
Macer	wonder how much power that would eat up	09:26
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Gear_	hey how do I read a hard drive with H-E-N once it's mounted	09:47
Gear_	I looked at the kernel messages and it detected the right drive etc, but I can't find out how to access it...	09:47
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Gear_	I look through file manager and nothing	09:49
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mattcen	Having installed the stable version of CSSU, am I able to safely upgrade to the devel release?	09:57
mattcen	s/devel/testing/	09:58
infobot	mattcen meant: Having installed the stable version of CSSU, am I able to safely upgrade to the testing release?	09:58
mattcen	Oh that is cool.	09:59
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Hurrian	yes	10:05
Hurrian	but you cannot go backwards	10:05
Hurrian	well you can, but you have to do it manually, risking breaking config files.	10:06
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Gear_	how do you know if a drive has mounted properly using h-e-n	10:10
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Sicelo	/sb enc	10:54
Sicelo	sorry for spam	10:54
Sicelo	Gear_: i assume u found out by now... if not: when u hit mount, there's a brief dialog that confirms mounting, and shows u the mount point. u could also check in terminal by running 'mount'. even File Manager shows the connected drive	10:55
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RST38h	Meanwhile: Twenty-one German soldiers entombed in a perfectly preserved World War One shelter have been discovered 94 years after they were killed.	11:19
Macer	wow	11:24
* SpeedEvil ponders linking to 'Iron Sky'.		11:24
Macer	i wonder what the shelter looked like	11:25
Macer	they should turn it into a museum.. was it a large bunker type shelter?	11:25
RST38h	Enjoy http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9074336/German-soldiers-preserved-in-World-War-I-shelter-discovered-after-nearly-100-years.html	11:28
RST38h	There is a similar shelter museum in Moscow, minus the cadavers of course	11:29
SpeedEvil	' Even the skeleton of a goat was found, assumed to be a source of fresh milk for the soldiers. ' - right.	11:30
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Macer	heh	11:39
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jaska	fresh milk... or something else	11:57
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Macer	fresh sex	12:02
Macer	:)	12:02
mattcen	Thanks Hurrian, you've been very helpful. Another question: I went to add the maemo extras-{testing,devel} to my App catalogue, but noticed they were already there but disabled.	12:02
mattcen	(I assume they were installed by the CSSU, but they may've been put there when I restored my backup). Anybody know of a reason I shouldn't re-enable them? (e.g. conflicts with CSSU?)	12:03
Macer	usually i only enable them when there is an app i really want that is only in testing or dev	12:04
mattcen	Macer: And then disable it once you've downloaded the app?	12:05
Macer	yes usually :)	12:05
Macer	i found a mass update of apps already installed seems to cause problems eventually	12:05
RST38h	...No teddy bears are to be allowed in Site 24 to prevent any confusion or mistaken identity. Any object that resembles a teddy bear is to be reported to the security team immediately...	12:06
mattcen	Cool, I might give that a go then. I was just going through my list of previously installed packages and found several small but incredibly useful ones that aren't available outside extras-testing or -devel.	12:06
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Macer	lol	12:07
Macer	those damn teddy bears	12:07
RST38h	...Subject resembles a teddy bear similar in size and shape to SCP-1048, but is made entirely out of human ears. Witnesses interviewed said it appeared as if SCP-1048 was giving a tour to the "newcomer"...	12:07
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* mattcen feels like he's missed something fundamental about how the topic of teddy bears arose...		12:08
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Macer	RST38h: wtf?	12:12
Macer	made entirely out of human ears? :)	12:12
Gear_	sicelo, this drive isn't mounting then	12:13
Gear_	it should :/	12:13
Gear_	it detected it as the proper drive and stuff but nothing showed up in file manager	12:13
RST38h	Macer: http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-1048	12:13
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Macer	lmao!	12:18
Macer	someone has to make a movie of that	12:18
Macer	resident evil style	12:18
Macer	killer teddy bears made of human ears	12:19
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originalserver	I am selling dedicated servers in different countries, only windows xp, 2003,2008, seven! write who need them.	12:34
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RST38h	Macer: If people start making moviesof every SCP object listed on the site, the horror movie industry will quickly go out of business	12:45
RST38h	originalserver: I need one with Slackware Linux could you please send me	12:45
originalserver	sorry only windows	12:46
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RST38h	mhm	12:56
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DocScrutinizer	guys, it seems a lot of users in this chan don't appreciate massive OT	13:07
DocScrutinizer	user count down to 270 :-/	13:07
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* DocScrutinizer just wonders if massive silence after forbidding any OT would just make another hundred users /part		13:11
DocScrutinizer	and FFS infobot offline again	13:11
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psychologe	how much people use N900 in 201w	13:16
psychologe	how much people use N900 in 2012	13:16
* RST38h still uses n900		13:16
RST38h	would move to n950, if weren't afraid to damage it, it is too precious =)	13:16
psychologe	i like python,so i select N900	13:17
NIN101	still many psychologe.	13:18
DocScrutinizer	no better phone+palmtop in vicinity	13:18
psychologe	study pyqt,feel a little hard	13:18
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Sicelo	Gear_: maybe try mounting it manually. check dmesg to know which device node it t's on	13:29
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Macer	RST38h: heh. maybe.	13:37
Macer	but it can't be any worse than the shit movies coming out for the last 10+ years	13:37
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DocScrutinizer	Gear_: Sicelo: very kind of you not to pester me with h-e-n mounting issues ;-)	13:51
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DocScrutinizer	nevertheless a comment: Gear_ , you know mounting is basically unrelated to h-e-n, and the mount function been always a deprecated feature in h-e-n that's been announced for discontinuation since h-e-n version 0.0.1 :-)	13:52
DocScrutinizer	mounting and related stuff on N900 should work exactly same way it does e.g. on your laptop linux PC	13:53
DocScrutinizer	see recent posts by iirc blue_led and others, that properly integrated mounting into udev / ke-recv where it belongs	13:54
Sicelo	Â/me hasn't had success with blue_led's stuff... prefer stock h-e-n for now	13:55
Sicelo	damn	13:55
DocScrutinizer	well, you seem to miss the point here	13:56
Sicelo	DocScrutinizer: not at all. :)	13:56
DocScrutinizer	enabling hostmode in kernel and vboost for bq24150 is completely unrelated to mounting	13:57
Sicelo	i know h-e-n & mounting are unrelated	13:57
Macer	damn ran out of lost girl episodes	13:57
DocScrutinizer	even IF blue_led's stuff fails on the first two, it still does a nice job on mounting	13:57
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DocScrutinizer	for sure a way better job than h-e-n	13:58
Sicelo	hmm, i'll give it another chance. so far it completely failed for me	13:59
Sicelo	looking forward to Pali's driver :)	13:59
DocScrutinizer	pali pubished a patched ke-recv that not only shall mount non-fat uSD partitions, but also should do a nice job for USB mounting	13:59
DocScrutinizer	pali's charger driver? I still see a looong way for this to get to any state where it has advantages over what we got now	14:00
DocScrutinizer	or even would be on par	14:00
Sicelo	that's why i stick with standard h-e-n for now	14:02
DocScrutinizer	for now aiui it's just a nifty and half-finished replacement for our charge.sh and booston scripts	14:02
DocScrutinizer	and charge.sh, while working reliably for maintaining battery, still epically fails to even try to support all the maemo system stuff like reporting battery in system area etc	14:03
DocScrutinizer	pali's (actually again based on my) driver simply moves that to kernel space	14:03
Sicelo	DocScrutinizer: here's a h-e-n problem i usually encounter: it takes over a minute to actually power my flash disk	14:05
DocScrutinizer	which might be a nice start, as long as it's correctly implementing the specs in http://maemo.cloud-7.de/bq24150-sysnode.spec.txt	14:06
Sicelo	if i use external power, i can use flash disk immediately. any clues?	14:06
DocScrutinizer	Sicelo: hardly	14:06
DocScrutinizer	you should use my augmented booston script anyway	14:06
DocScrutinizer	otherwise no clues at all ;-)	14:07
DocScrutinizer	Sicelo: also, your term "use external power" is rather fuzzy	14:07
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Sicelo	i mean when using y-cable, there are no delays .. disk is instantly enumerated	14:08
DocScrutinizer	isn't even worth I start to think what might be the differences between h-e-n and "using external power" as I have no clue what that means in detail	14:08
DocScrutinizer	ok, Y-cable is one detail	14:09
Sicelo	btw, i use your latest booston	14:09
* merlin1991 needs the rdins or howerver the driver is called that is shipped with qtcreator		14:09
merlin1991	but without installing the whole thing	14:09
DocScrutinizer	now all we need is a detailed to the second description HOW you "use external power"	14:09
DocScrutinizer	\o/	14:10
DocScrutinizer	nfobot alive again	14:10
DocScrutinizer	Sicelo: please use http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/sbin/booston	14:11
DocScrutinizer	it's a drop-in replacement for the script shipping with h-e-n	14:12
DocScrutinizer	with extremely improved diagnostic and notification	14:12
DocScrutinizer	and error handling	14:12
merlin1991	Anybody happen to have a link to the usb ethernet windows driver that ships with qt creator?	14:13
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infobot	DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!	14:18
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Sicelo	DocScrutinizer: with y-cble there no problem at all. it's when i rely on n900 boost that i have an issue.the led on the flash takes at least 1 1/2 minutes to light up, and only then does enumerating succeed	14:34
DocScrutinizer	Sicelo: well, that's still more desinformation that precise info on what's the exact procedure you use with y-cable	14:35
DocScrutinizer	s/that pr/than pr/	14:35
* DocScrutinizer hands poor infobot a samurai knife for harakiri		14:36
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Sicelo	hmm, sorry then. when using y-cable, i first connect flash disk to cable and pwer the whole thing with an external 5V supply, then connect the whole thing to N900 immeditely after i'mve hit vboost in h-e-n.	14:42
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Sicelo	*power	14:43
DocScrutinizer	infobot: ping	14:43
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infobot	~pong	14:44
DocScrutinizer	Sicelo: mhm	14:46
DocScrutinizer	I assume you stop the time til USB stick ready from the moment you attach it to external power supply then?	14:47
DocScrutinizer	as that'S the moment the stick's controller starts to "boot up" the stick	14:48
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DocScrutinizer	if it sat there for 5 min powered via Y-cable from external PSU, it's no wonder h-e-n/N900 can enumerate it immediately after you plugged it in	14:48
DocScrutinizer	it's not exactly unusual that some sticks need 30s or even longer to initialize after powering them up. The only reason you usually don't notice that is that on a 'sane' USB host ENUM starts automatically after stick finished initialization. But I'm recaling quite well last time I plugged a USB stick to my laptop it took like 1 minute for the dialog "do you want to a) digicam, b) konqueror..." to pop up after plugging the stick	14:53
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer: how does the os detect when to enumerate?	14:53
merlin1991	(in a sane environment)	14:54
DocScrutinizer	so even if there's some problem and that'smaybe a linux specific problem, it's for sure and evidently not related to h-e-n and the way vboost works	14:54
DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: I think it gets an IRQ from USB controller about "device attached" then starts to try ENUM	14:54
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DocScrutinizer	as we - due to dirty hack testmode we need to exploit - don't get such IRQ on mentorgfy musb-hdrc in N900, h-e-n has the ENUM button to hit manually	14:55
Sicelo	ok. understood. weird though, but i follow the logic. thanks :)	14:56
DocScrutinizer	YW	14:56
mattcen	Hi again all. Sorry to bother you again; I just noticed that my camera doesn't work. I open the lens cover and get "Operatin failed". I suspect it may be related to installing kernel-power, despite having followed the instructions to install the new camera driver...	15:01
mattcen	Any idea how I can debug this?	15:01
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merlin1991	mattcen: kernel power should work just fine with stock camera drivers	15:02
mattcen	Hmmm...	15:03
merlin1991	But you can wait for Pali or freemangordon to show up here	15:03
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Sicelo	hmm, maybe u installed wrong drivers, or u have a disk issue. i'm on kp & never had to use any camera drivers	15:06
Macer	hm	15:06
Macer	i'm trying out synchronet	15:06
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mattcen	Fixed it. Thanks guys; I reverted what I read on the KP wiki page (which, upon re-reading I probably shouldn't have tried; 'apt-get install fcam-drivers'), and rebooted; now all is good.	15:12
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mattcen	Can anybody recommend a twitter client for Maemo?	15:30
Sicelo	:)	15:30
merlin1991	Tweego	15:30
merlin1991	Butm rts don't work	15:30
* mattcen tries		15:31
* merlin1991 has a pa		15:32
merlin1991	...tch somewhere for tweego and retweets	15:32
mattcen	Ah nice. Looks much better than witter and mauku	15:34
merlin1991	And starts way faster than witter :)	15:35
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* mattcen gets ready for bed. Thanks for all your help today everybody!		16:00
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hanspeter	hi, where are the IM account passwords stored?	21:01
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Meizirkki	hai	21:20
Meizirkki	finally got n810 :P	21:21
Meizirkki	* I	21:21
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DocScrutinizer	hanspeter: try gconftool -R /\|grep -C 5 "yourpassword"	22:25
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hanspeter	hm, i tried grepping for my username, but no match :/	22:29
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DrGrov	Hi DocScrutinizer	22:40
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DocScrutinizer	hi DrGrov	22:48
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DrGrov	DocScrutinizer: You got the PM ?	22:52
DocScrutinizer	I'm generally not interested in PM	22:52
DrGrov	DocScrutinizer: Ok, just thought you would read what I wrote.	22:53
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DrGrov	But no need to read it. Just wondered on your take on the whole situation.	22:53
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DocScrutinizer	and you think I'm afraid to utter my "take on the situation" in a public channel?	22:54
DrGrov	DocScrutinizer: No, of course not Doc. I know you can talk about it in a public channel anytime, anyplace. Just thought that it was something that you like not to share. But sure, I am open for discussion in a public channel.	22:56
DocScrutinizer	I just don't see any topic to discuss right atm	22:56
DrGrov	Ok, I understand. If I understand your standpoint correctly, you are against opening up the security because regular users are not aware of the possible risks of doing so?	22:58
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DrGrov	Sorry, probably wrong channel to have this discussion.	23:00
DocScrutinizer	and a completely wrong conception of my POV regarding the whole topic	23:02
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DocScrutinizer	what I said was "don't use hacks when there's an official supported way to achieve way more than what your hack can do"	23:03
DrGrov	Ok, I misinterpreted your point of view. My mistake.	23:04
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DocScrutinizer	DrGrov: you also seem not aware of the fact that openmode kernel is hosted on my server	23:07
DrGrov	DocScrutinizer: No I am not aware of that because I have not gotten that far on my N9 adventure yet to actually use openmode.	23:07
DocScrutinizer	so assuming I was a friend of keeping this "security" crap is a bit... weird	23:07
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DrGrov	I am not assuming that you like to keep Aegis. I have seen you write about how you do not like Aegis.	23:09
DocScrutinizer	so figure my laughs when some paranoid hacker comes pestering me about "but hey, we don't need openmode as we also could do X Y Z - well it's way less convenient than openmode but it's nifty and shows Nokia how poor their implementation of the whole concept is, and *it gets rid of the warning screen"	23:10
DocScrutinizer	:-S	23:10
DrGrov	I am assuming the beer did the trick yesterday :)	23:11
DocScrutinizer	as if "getting rid of warning screen" was a major design goal and would cause any difference regarding warranty from Nokia	23:12
DocScrutinizer	honestly, there's nothing to discuss	23:13
DrGrov	Ok, I rest my case and go and hit the kill switch on myself :P	23:14
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DrGrov	I will not say anything more about this then. Very informative though to hear your opinions DocScrutinizer. Always gives a good view on things.	23:15
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vizzy	hi	23:32
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vizzy	i installed openssh server and client but i dont know the password	23:37
vizzy	in the details it says i will be asked for a password during install, which seems not happen	23:37
vizzy	anyone lnow my passwords? *g or how to set them up? will i break things if i set passwd for root?	23:38
vizzy	and the password is not rootme or so	23:39
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vizzy	and user gainroot also does not work	23:40
vizzy	so how to set up rootpassword for local access and sshh remote access on maemo5 devices?	23:40
vizzy	google is a bit useless, only the same resources which tells me openssh will ask for a passwd which definitely does not happen	23:41
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vizzy	Install OpenSSH (client and server)	23:42
vizzy	This will prompt you to change the root password from the default, rootme	23:42
vizzy	^^bullshit	23:42
DocScrutinizer	vizzy: no bullshit	23:45
vizzy	maybe, but i definitely was not asked for a new passwd	23:45
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vizzy	i reinstalled several times	23:45
DocScrutinizer	openssh WILL ask for password (IIRC) if you install it via HAM	23:46
vizzy	HAM?	23:46
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DocScrutinizer	Hildom App Manager	23:46
vizzy	i did so	23:46
DocScrutinizer	hmmm	23:46
DocScrutinizer	weird	23:46
vizzy	however, i found that i can use passwd as on a generic linux system	23:46
vizzy	and i dont need to knbow the passwd for this	23:46
ShadowJK	maybe it only asks if there is no existing password	23:46
DocScrutinizer	anyway, no problem, as you can do "root" (given you installed rootsh) and then set your root password	23:47
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: good point	23:47
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vizzy	so, if i can change pw without knowing the passwd i found a bit bad	23:47
DocScrutinizer	usually you got the null password for root	23:47
DocScrutinizer	which doesn't work for ssh	23:47
vizzy	hmmm, yes	23:47
vizzy	ok, will it have any affect to the systems automagical scripts if i change rootpasswd from ull to anything?	23:48
DocScrutinizer	vizzy: you can gain root on N900, without any password	23:48
DocScrutinizer	so changing the password is actually the minor threat	23:48
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vizzy	DocScrutinizer, yes, but im ot sure if it will break things on changing pw	23:48
DocScrutinizer	no, both user and root pw are safe to change	23:48
DocScrutinizer	~jrtools	23:49
infobot	hmm... jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	23:49
vizzy	ah, ok, thats what i wanna know :) thank you	23:49
ShadowJK	rootsh and "sudo gainroot" or "root"	23:49
vizzy	jepp	23:49
vizzy	i know the way	23:49
DocScrutinizer	you maybe also wanna know how to change the default of not asking for password when doing sudo	23:49
vizzy	all i wanna know was what will happen if i change the root pw for some reason	23:49
vizzy	DocScrutinizer, yes :) please	23:50
DocScrutinizer	~jrtools	23:50
infobot	methinks jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	23:50
vizzy	ah, thx :)	23:51
DocScrutinizer	>># fix NOPASSWD for root / sudo gainroot	23:52
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