IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-12-18

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luke-jr	so is anyone working on a proper N900 BME replacement?	00:25
luke-jr	ie, something I can run as an init script	00:25
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Pali	luke-jr, I'm working on kernel module	00:32
luke-jr	Pali: hmm!	00:33
Pali	without userspace daemon/program	00:33
luke-jr	good idea	00:33
Pali	I sent last version to LKML: https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/12/7/626	00:33
Pali	but it is still not complete and propably not working...	00:34
jazedal	Why do we want BME?	00:41
psycho_oreos	proper control over charging of battery, maybe one can do fancy stuff with it	00:42
jazedal	It doesn't sound too useful.	00:42
psycho_oreos	nokia's BME has been a pain in the neck for most cases anyway.. sometimes not reporting battery level correctly, no proper indication of how much battery power is left when hostmode is enabled, etc, etc, etc	00:42
DocScrutinizer	psycho_oreos: you can't do fancy stuff with that	00:43
jazedal	psycho_oreos: Ok	00:43
luke-jr	jazedal: we don't, that's the point of another charger	00:43
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: rhere's a script since "years" that you could start from system init	00:43
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: I have a script, but it's not very friendly for init	00:43
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: and probably not power efficient	00:44
DocScrutinizer	eeeh, power efficient?	00:44
psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer, well I said maybe :) then again the standard BME is somewhat restrictive as it is	00:44
jazedal	You're doing the browser right after, right?	00:44
Pali	DocScrutinizer, can be that script charge21.sh running always on background (when charger is not connected too)?	00:45
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DocScrutinizer	sure	00:45
Pali	no side effect?	00:45
DocScrutinizer	not more than the known ones	00:46
Pali	and what is known?	00:46
luke-jr	other than executing i2c tools, printing, etc	00:46
DocScrutinizer	which are: no proper reporting of battery state to hal, etc	00:46
Pali	ok, reporting to hal and is not big problem...	00:47
luke-jr	HAL is dead	00:47
Pali	you are right!	00:47
jazedal	Problem building BookmarkBridge on the N900: It requires libqt-dev; however, libqt4-dev has a problem with file /usr/bin/uic. It fails when run contrary to its documented expected behavior.	00:48
jazedal	/usr/bin/uic: line 1: syntax error: "(" unexpected	00:48
jazedal	uic is a binary ELF file	00:48
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luke-jr	Pali: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=80889	00:49
DocScrutinizer	why would you want bookmark-bridge on N900 anyway?	00:49
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jazedal	Originally, the idea was to convert the xml file to firefox format before backup/sync	00:49
jazedal	You just reminded me that the XML format is the ideal format, and it should be backed up the way it is.	00:50
Pali	luke-jr, I will look at it later...	00:50
Pali	also ping freemangordon about that patches	00:50
jazedal	I was in the middle of building it when I realized that, though, and it might have been nice to have it on the N900.	00:51
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Pali	DocScrutinizer, can charge21.sh swith charging from wallcharger to usb charger?	00:52
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: (power efficient) indeed it's useless to run the watchdog tickle for bq24150 4..6 times a minute, as you could stop this during times where no charger is attached. But then you'd need to watch for charger plug in and that will either require kevents monitor or polling of sysfs node. And the i2c cmd to tickle wd is utterly lightweight anyway	00:53
jazedal	I will not facepalm and yell at myself, though, it is a strange custom.	00:53
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DocScrutinizer	Pali: no, it doesn't as of now	00:53
DocScrutinizer	it could get augmented to do this	00:53
DocScrutinizer	for now it's somewhat mistreating USB hosts	00:54
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DocScrutinizer	same way your usual 3.5" external USB hardrive or UMTS stick does	00:54
NIN101	have read of stuff like risking frying pc usb ports when using charge21.sh, as it pulls more than 500 ma... BS?	00:55
Pali	ok	00:55
DocScrutinizer	well, it's somewhat correct, just it's one of legion of devices that do this	00:55
DocScrutinizer	you could however easily change max USB current to always stay at 500mA, which would reduce charging speed on fastchargers but would basically comply with USB specs for hosts	00:56
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: assuming the kernel caches the i2c binaries etc	00:57
luke-jr	which might not always be true	00:57
luke-jr	also, kernel module is probably safer from swapping	00:58
Pali	ok, so in kernel driver I need check if usb charger is connected and change max current	00:58
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: when it doesn't then you got real problems with power usage that are not caused by that script ;-D	00:58
luke-jr	;)	00:58
DocScrutinizer	Pali: NO, you can't and don't want to do that	00:58
luke-jr	anyhow, I've changed gears.	00:58
luke-jr	I have 75 minutes left to use TODAY, so I want to try to get voice calling working	00:59
DocScrutinizer	Pali: you'll introduce layering problems by doing this	00:59
Pali	DocScrutinizer, what is correct way?	00:59
DocScrutinizer	this switching depending on USB enum has to be done by a userland daemon	01:00
luke-jr	…	01:00
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DocScrutinizer	the whole USB enum and deciding if that's ok for charging now, is way too complex to do all that in kernel space	01:02
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DocScrutinizer	you want a userland daemon that waits for kevent signalling change in VBUS sysnode, indicating either a plugin or removal of any charger or USB host. Then that userland daemon checks what we want to do, according to what got actually plugged in, then it configures bq24150 via kenel module accordingly and sets the kernel module to auto, which relieves the duty of tickling watchdog from userland daemon. Then the daemon basically goes idle	01:06
DocScrutinizer	again, waiting for next kevent on /sys/*/vbus	01:06
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DocScrutinizer	on removal you set USB-MAX-CURRENT to either 500mA or 100mA if you're very conservative and cautious. So charger chip will start charging at that rate immediately as soon as anything gets plugged in and delivers power	01:10
Pali	ok	01:12
DocScrutinizer	eventually USB Enum kicks in, eventually either fastcharger or max-current of 400mA (USB hub) or 500mA (direct host) got negotiated, and when that happened and got finished, the userland daemon can rconfigure the /sys/*/bq24150 accordingly	01:12
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DocScrutinizer	or you trust in all your equipment isn't the absolute crap and has proper 500mA USB power capabilities (otherwise you already had killed it by plugging in one of the above mentioned other "rogue" peripherals or even a USB-mugwarmer or USB-fan) and you don't bother too much about charging a completely empty battery takes 4:30 instead of 4:00 - so you set max USB current to 500mA and forget about all the userland daemon cruft and trust in	01:17
DocScrutinizer	bq24150 and bq24150.ko tickling the watchdog	01:17
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DocScrutinizer	this will "just work" in 99.999% of cases, and may result in charging simply failing due to some windows PC getting upset on a peripheral drawing 500mA without ENUM in the rest of cases	01:20
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DocScrutinizer	I still have to check if bq24150 actually resumes charging when power gets applied, even without reconfiguring it (I.E. resetting "power lost" error), but basically that's no real reason for getting any overcomplicated detecting and whatnot in kernel or userland daemon - it can be done with each watchdog tickling in bq24150.ko as well as charge21.sh if actually needed	01:28
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* javispedro feels the urge to remove all those screenshots of Android that someone has been adding to the Linux, ARM architecture, and several other Wikipedia pages		01:29
DocScrutinizer	wth?! today?	01:30
javispedro	nah, been there for a while, prolly they'll argue they are "useful"	01:30
javispedro	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Operating_systems	01:31
DocScrutinizer	meh, on wikipedia	01:36
HyperSnyper	how dificult would it be to get RISC OS running on the n900....	01:36
HyperSnyper	know theres afew emulators but not sure if nay are open source	01:36
HyperSnyper	RISC OS <3	01:37
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mavhc	HyperSnyper: right and middle click might be tricky	01:37
DocScrutinizer	I'm recently cleaning out ~5 spam edits per day on average, on wiki.maemo.org - pretty annoying though it earns me karma	01:37
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mavhc	HyperSnyper: risc os open has the source code	01:38
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HyperSnyper	i just want to play Hamters	01:39
mavhc	heh	01:39
HyperSnyper	one of the first games i ever played	01:39
HyperSnyper	:D	01:39
mavhc	the one with the giant mallet?	01:39
HyperSnyper	thats the one :D	01:39
HyperSnyper	heheh	01:39
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HyperSnyper	remeber Tom Cooper appearing couple of years ago saying he wanted to port it to Mobiles but not seen anything about it since	01:40
mavhc	yeah, it's on http://www.acornarcade.com/features/freegames/ but games are always an issue because they're hacky	01:40
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mavhc	http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,113088/	01:41
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HyperSnyper	some good memories looks through that arcon arcade list	01:44
HyperSnyper	spent far too many hours playing Phaeton	01:44
mavhc	never got far with arc elite, not owning an arc at the time, got elite status on bbc elite. played cycloids quite a bit	01:46
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jazedal	That's it. It was 'osso-addressbook-backup' that I used in my backup scripts.	01:50
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luke-jr	>>> media-libs/libcmtspeechdata-2.1.1 merged.	01:54
luke-jr	javispedro: Android isn't Linux. do it.	01:54
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DocScrutinizer	is somebody claim it was linux, on that wikipage?	01:55
javispedro	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux#Embedded_devices	01:56
luke-jr	"screenshots of Android that someone has been adding to the Linux,"	01:56
luca_	DocScrutinizer: FYI, you were right, it was something related to a package altering ringtones (ringtoned)	01:57
luca_	DocScrutinizer: it screwed up ~user/.sounds creating a broken symlink (I don't know how since I installed it ages ago and never used and never opdated)	01:58
luca_	DocScrutinizer: all sounds (even alarms) look for sounds there, so they couldn't find them and fail	01:59
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luca_	DocScrutinizer: for some reason when changing the settings, the sounds were reproduced OK	01:59
luca_	anyway, just wanted to let you know that I finally fixed it and what was the problem	02:00
DocScrutinizer	thanks	02:00
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DocScrutinizer	I always wondered if the symlinking is the right method for the ringtone changing. I also wonder what would happen when you do a "cat new_ringtone.wav >cached_rintone.wav" while cached_rintone is currently played back by the errr whatever does this ringtone playback	02:40
DocScrutinizer	barisione: ^^^	02:40
luke-jr	I definitely agree with symlink	02:41
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: you don't see the whole picture	02:56
luke-jr	nope!	02:57
DocScrutinizer	using symlinks means we need to stop the ringtoneplayer change the symlink according to what we found from addrbook and then restart ringtoneplaying so it opens the new ringtone data file	02:58
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DocScrutinizer	that's why for luca_ there was that weird behaviour that every alarm sound got stopped immediately after starting it, according to what he saw on dbus	02:59
DocScrutinizer	AIUI	02:59
DocScrutinizer	changing raw data of the opened .wav would eliminate the need for all that	03:00
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DocScrutinizer	and also would guarantee we always have some audio data to playback, even when something goes awry on final ending ringtone playing where right now the (per-contact-)ringtoned has to change symlink to contact specific .wav back to default.wav	03:02
DocScrutinizer	even when copying new or default audio data halfway then segfaulting, all we got is a messed up ringtone data, not a dangling symlink	03:03
DocScrutinizer	OTOH probably buffering will render my idea moot	03:06
DocScrutinizer	that's why I said "I also wonder what would happen..."	03:08
DocScrutinizer	depending on more factors than I could list here, the result of this action may differ significantly	03:09
DocScrutinizer	best probably was to rewrite the ringtoneplayer, whatever it is	03:10
DocScrutinizer	tonegend or whatever	03:10
DocScrutinizer	I guess they won't use mafw for that	03:10
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slobro	umm, hello. I just got an used n900, and I was wondering that how I could find out what maemo and firmware version Im running?	03:13
SpeedEvil	settings -> about	03:13
SpeedEvil	Also - ~flashing	03:13
SpeedEvil	~flashing	03:14
infobot	rumour has it, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	03:14
psycho_oreos	entering *#0000# still shows version	03:15
merlin1991	lmao just wanted to swipe to close on my n900	03:16
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slobro	hmm, version 21.2011.38-1, pretty new I guess	03:17
DocScrutinizer	doesn't mean much	03:17
merlin1991	oh it does	03:18
psycho_oreos	yeah its the latest	03:18
DocScrutinizer	I guess you'll reflash it anyway, as soon as you get it	03:18
psycho_oreos	I wouldn't ;)	03:19
merlin1991	reflashing was the first thing I did when I got my 2nd n900	03:19
psycho_oreos	dd was the first thing when I got my second and subsequent N900, after that it was flashing	03:20
merlin1991	why dd?	03:21
* psycho_oreos grins devilishly and says no more		03:21
merlin1991	I see	03:22
* DocScrutinizer shrugs		03:22
DocScrutinizer	whatever been the purpose, it's most likely not been to the point	03:22
DocScrutinizer	a sane user has reflashed combined and vanilla anyway, prior to selling	03:23
DocScrutinizer	a not so sane user has nothing I'd be interested in	03:24
merlin1991	my 2nd n900 is interesting though, it has a hardware fault so that the software detects that cellmo doesn't work, it does display a banner in the 3 dots load screen	03:24
psycho_oreos	you meant 5	03:24
merlin1991	but it doesn't go past it unless the banner is pressed	03:24
merlin1991	ooops :D	03:24
merlin1991	but I get the same banner again when h-d finishes loading :D	03:25
psycho_oreos	and I've actually found some interesting data however..	03:25
DocScrutinizer	a user like me would leave some spyware in a deleted honeypot file for users like you, when selling	03:28
psycho_oreos	the chances of you getting information out of that spyware from me would be unlikely :)	03:29
psycho_oreos	let alone anyone	03:30
DocScrutinizer	hmm, let's try it ;-P	03:31
psycho_oreos	and what are you going to do even if I did dd your sold device? report me in for trying to reveal your secrecy?	03:32
psycho_oreos	lol	03:32
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DocScrutinizer	eh? nah, I'm going to use your secrit shit to do nonsense	03:35
psycho_oreos	i.e. personal vendetta just because you couldn't let go of your old device having your past secrets revealed? heh that's even worse than me dumping yer history out ;)	03:36
DocScrutinizer	sure, I'm evil	03:37
merlin1991	yes you are, see:	03:38
merlin1991	~scrutinizing	03:38
infobot	it has been said that scrutinizing is what DocScrutinizer does after eating some datasheets for breakfast	03:38
DocScrutinizer	however I said deleted honeypot file, so you'd start the spyware only when trying to recover deleted shit from that device	03:38
* psycho_oreos makes a mental note to not buy stuff from DocScrutinizer ;) though I gotta admit I'm still a sucker for N950		03:38
luke-jr	how does telepathy-ring work without linking to libcmtspeechdata? :\|	03:39
luke-jr	merlin1991: does it let you use cellmo if you bypass the detect?	03:40
DocScrutinizer	btw guess what's #1 on list of "always works" attack vectors to do industry spying - yep, you simply "forget" an USB stick next to the employee of that company	03:41
merlin1991	luke-jr: didn't try	03:41
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jazedal	Does anyone have any experience getting gpg-agent to work on the N900?	03:42
javispedro	luke-jr: what the h is libcmtspeechdata and wouldn't pulseaudio be using it instead of tp-ring?	03:44
jazedal	gpg has trouble connecting to the agent	03:44
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luke-jr	javispedro: libcmtspeechdata is apparently how to do audio with cellmo	03:47
luke-jr	I don't want PA	03:47
javispedro	more reason it'll link to a PA module instead of tp-ring	03:48
javispedro	(not on what you're building, of course).	03:48
luke-jr	why?	03:49
luke-jr	every other telepathy module does audio handling	03:49
Robot101	they pass the codec / network data "up" from the telepathy connection manager to the stream engine which has the RTP stack	03:50
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Robot101	telepathy-ring controls csd and pulseaudio just magics the audio into place	03:50
luke-jr	-.-	03:50
Robot101	doing the equivalent to voip isn't very useful to telepathy as you just have to have some higher-level component which understands a lower layer backend thing which has device-specific knowledge about audio routing	03:51
Robot101	if every internet backend in telepathy needed a different/custom streaming format (and not just rtp) they'd all do it inside the protocol backend too	03:51
slobro	hmm, should I just flash with the global firmware image, when the n900 has been bought in finland..	03:58
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luke-jr	so in plain English… there's no way to make voice calls work without PA blob crap?	04:01
javispedro	luke-jr: PA stuff no longer has blobs in meego	04:01
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luke-jr	javispedro: slightly better.	04:01
javispedro	well..	04:01
luke-jr	where's the code? :P	04:02
luke-jr	if not under https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/	04:02
javispedro	http://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/pulseaudio-modules-meego/blobs/master/src/cmtspeech/cmtspeech-connection.c	04:03
javispedro	now that I remember, there are still PA blobs,	04:04
javispedro	how much annoying they are probably Sts knows.	04:04
javispedro	(seemingly related to audio processing iirc)	04:05
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DocScrutinizer	well, on SHR we got cmtspeech anyway	04:11
DocScrutinizer	and we don't use PA ;-D	04:11
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: link? :D	04:11
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DocScrutinizer	actually cmtspeech is utterly silly, it's just reading from one serial data interface and forwarding to another, and vice versa	04:12
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luke-jr	…	04:13
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: link? :D	04:16
DocScrutinizer	mompl	04:16
DocScrutinizer	author just asked me "cmtspeech like we do it? or like meego does it?"	04:17
DocScrutinizer	http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=cornucopia.git;a=tree;f=fsoaudiod/src/plugins/gsmvoice_alsa_cmtspeechdata;h=e288a6d7433aed7b70d792d4823486b9ace7f44b;hb=HEAD here you go	04:18
DocScrutinizer	hope you like the brilliance of the simple architecture, it's designed by me	04:18
DocScrutinizer	;-P	04:18
luke-jr	meego uses PA; do not want	04:18
luke-jr	(%*#)%#	04:18
DocScrutinizer	me neither :-D	04:18
luke-jr	vala -.-	04:18
DocScrutinizer	LOL	04:19
* luke-jr wonders which is worse, vala or PA		04:19
DocScrutinizer	indeed	04:19
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luke-jr	700 lines, can't be hard to port to C…	04:20
DocScrutinizer	prolly not	04:21
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DocScrutinizer	actually it's more easy in c	04:21
DocScrutinizer	as you can use direct ALSA pcm_xxx() calls rather than that vala stub cruft	04:21
luke-jr	lol	04:22
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* luke-jr wonders if he should be using FreeSmartPhone's telephony stack instead of ofono		04:25
luke-jr	ofono needs glib-- is FSP's glib-free? ;)	04:25
javispedro	if it uses vala..	04:26
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DocScrutinizer	you can tell for sure that I hate this detail: >>pcmin.open( "plug:dsnoop", Alsa.PcmStream.CAPTURE );<< - hardcoded ALSA stack, OMFG	04:27
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javispedro	in the meanwhile, what you knew as the android kernel is now the linux kernel, as it seems that we got wakelocks :(	04:30
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DocScrutinizer	heard something like that, and I think I'm going to start a killing rage	04:39
DocScrutinizer	lennart??	04:40
javispedro	not involved	04:40
DocScrutinizer	so he has to wait now, will deal with him later	04:40
DocScrutinizer	first the fools who got this crap into clean nice linux	04:41
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GeneralAntilles	WE NEED MOAR DROID	04:47
javispedro	probably also related to "the year of linux disappointments"	04:48
javispedro	with nokia & contractors being pulled out of the kernel...	04:49
javispedro	previously, you'd get someone arguing "hey, we're doing fine without wakelocks on our devices"	04:49
GeneralAntilles	This is shaping up to be a messy decade.	04:49
javispedro	nowadays it's just @android people	04:49
GeneralAntilles	Reading the comments on the LWN summary of that article was depression.	04:49
GeneralAntilles	(inducing)	04:49
GeneralAntilles	ANDROIDANDROIDANDROID	04:49
GeneralAntilles	Reminds me of LFCSSF 2009 when DiBona answered a question about Google not collaborating or releasing code	04:51
GeneralAntilles	and it was OK because none of their competitors did either	04:51
DocScrutinizer	hah	04:51
javispedro	...	04:51
GeneralAntilles	s/2009/2010/	04:51
javispedro	even more ...	04:51
GeneralAntilles	Which of course Nokia made up half that conference.	04:51
GeneralAntilles	And they seemed to have very little trouble with their kernel code and collaboration.	04:52
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GeneralAntilles	He didn't have much to say after that was pointed out to him.	04:53
DocScrutinizer	well, nite all, got enough stuff for some pleasant dreams full of violence	04:53
GeneralAntilles	Later	04:54
javispedro	gnite DocScrutinizer	04:54
luke-jr	javispedro: actually, I found proprietary wakelocks in some Nokia code	04:54
javispedro	luke-jr: without agressive suspending, it's just cpuidle stuff, such as the one in musb	04:56
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* javispedro fails to undestand why Google is using the fact that "Lennart is using Google+" to try to convince me to join Google+.		05:33
DocScrutinizer	LOLMUHAHAHAcoughgasp	05:36
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DocScrutinizer	I might feel tempted	05:36
DocScrutinizer	;-P	05:36
DocScrutinizer	I wonder if I could find that video again of last year's CCC where MrPoettering acted like an asshat entering the stage and arguing with a dude who tried to hold a lecture about why PA is getting too fat for "usual workstations"	05:40
javispedro	lol @ a discussion where "utter braindamage" is uttered right in the first reply	05:40
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javispedro	and of course, the guy is a N900 owner =)	05:43
DocScrutinizer	one of the most amusing arguments mr poettering used was "we need PA before user session gets started, otherwise we couldn't read the login screen for the visually impaired" - or sth along that line. Nothing against impaired persons and accessability, but for KDM??? c'mon!	05:43
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: don't worry, eventually, it'll be so coupled to Linux (and viceversa) that it'll get pushed into Android^W the kernel, and then we'll be back at stage one.	05:45
* DocScrutinizer gasps		05:45
javispedro	Cannot wait for the Reallly Advanced Linux Sound Architecture! (RALSA)	05:45
DocScrutinizer	I might consider switching to netBSD	05:45
javispedro	I still have some love for the GPL...	05:46
DocScrutinizer	this whole linux land starts to become a mental home	05:46
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luke-jr	blah, why does audio have to be so complex?	05:48
DocScrutinizer	back in "the old days" (like 10some years ago) linux was for experts and only experts messed with things like kernel. Now each fool who grew out of scripting DoS thinks they can improve kernel, let alone KDE etc	05:48
DocScrutinizer	on a side note latest openSuse supports KDE3 again	05:49
DocScrutinizer	the best KDE ever	05:50
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: I recently fixed a bug in KDE where some guy "optimized" the IMAP protocol handler by removing parenthesis… which meant it omitted the message size when there were no flags, so it failed. -.-	05:50
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	05:50
DocScrutinizer	another script kiddie	05:50
javispedro	lol	05:51
javispedro	I'm going to restore your faith into Linux	05:51
luke-jr	of course, nobody really noticed because KDE doesn't use that IMAP protocol handler… they use a different IMAP handler	05:51
javispedro	words from the current linux scheduler maintainer: "Yes, this is why I loathe to update to a new distro, there's bound to	05:51
javispedro	new and improved *kit-daemon crap about which does random wakeups even	05:51
javispedro	though you know you're not using any of it, and when you're trying to	05:51
javispedro	uninstall that junk it thinks it needs to uninstall the world"	05:51
luke-jr	yes, KDE has 2 different IMAP implementations…	05:51
luke-jr	javispedro: that's why I use Gentoo	05:52
javispedro	(sorry for the unintentional \ns)	05:52
javispedro	luke-jr: same	05:52
luke-jr	though I was heavily tempted to give into *kit for KDE's power display stuff	05:52
luke-jr	but eventually decided it wasn't worth it (I can use CLI)	05:52
javispedro	it wouldn't have worked either way	05:52
luke-jr	probably not	05:53
luke-jr	sigh	05:53
luke-jr	someone needs to port KDE 3 to Qt4 and maintain it	05:53
luke-jr	(ie, not the Trinity idiots who think they're going to maintain Qt3 too)	05:53
javispedro	dunno what is going to be harder	05:54
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javispedro	kde is slightly more of a mess than qt3	05:54
javispedro	well, at least if you remove the multiplatform parts from qt3.	05:55
javispedro	(from a maintainer's PoV and in my short experience)	05:55
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javispedro	this discussion is just great so if you have time, do read it : http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1195425	05:56
javispedro	(they're arguing about wakelocks, agressive suspend crap)	05:56
DocScrutinizer	omg gmane jow I hate that format	06:05
DocScrutinizer	how*	06:05
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javispedro	time to go	06:08
javispedro	cya	06:08
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* luke-jr writes an ALSA plugin to expose CMTSpeech as an ALSA device…		06:22
luke-jr	any reason not to do it that way? <.<	06:23
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: HIGHLY welcome	06:34
luke-jr	ok, good :p	06:34
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DocScrutinizer	only reason my similar suggestion wasn't picked up was missing experise in writing ALSA card drivers	06:35
luke-jr	my first time touching ALSA code…	06:35
DocScrutinizer	and it had to become a card	06:35
luke-jr	why?	06:35
DocScrutinizer	because it does what a card usually does	06:35
luke-jr	so why not just a regular PCM device?	06:35
luke-jr	I'm assuming by "card drivers" you mean something in-kernel?	06:36
DocScrutinizer	right, PCM device / card / whatever. sth like hw:0.0 or any other device that acts as an endpoint of a stack	06:37
DocScrutinizer	yep, probably	06:37
luke-jr	I'm doing a shared object that uses libcmtspeechdata	06:38
luke-jr	http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/pcm_external_plugins.html	06:38
luke-jr	similar to dmix/dsnoop	06:38
DocScrutinizer	hmm, no obvious objections	06:38
DocScrutinizer	I probably don't really care	06:39
luke-jr	>_<	06:39
DocScrutinizer	as long as I can define my stacks as usual, incl hooks and all	06:39
luke-jr	any chance you have a magic "pipe these two ALSA device to each other" command I can test with? :p	06:42
DocScrutinizer	not really, except the age old arecord\|aplay	06:42
luke-jr	yeah, that's just one direction tho	06:43
luke-jr	I've got 15 mins left to write this… :P	06:43
luke-jr	otherwise, I'm probably moving on to something else for 3 weeks, so I don't use up my (very limited) minutes	06:43
DocScrutinizer	I think there's been some loopback pcm plugin, but it obviously has thee end and still needs one proper pcm_open()	06:43
DocScrutinizer	(one direction) use two of them ;-D	06:44
luke-jr	:p	06:44
DocScrutinizer	loopback (my take on it) arecord -D loopback:{input; output} /dev/null	06:47
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DocScrutinizer	or rather: arecord -D loopback:{input; plug:output} /dev/null	06:48
DocScrutinizer	gstreamer prolly also works	06:49
DocScrutinizer	and avoids the extreme latency of the shell \|pipe	06:50
DocScrutinizer	though you prolly could fix that by giving arecord/aplay proper chunksize orders	06:51
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luke-jr	gstreamer is glib :P	07:07
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merlin1991	luke-jr: you won't get away without some libs :D	07:29
luke-jr	merlin1991: ALSA is fine	07:29
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beagleburt	trying to find a working download for osso-xterm .. any ideas?	10:41
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psycho_oreos	beagleburt, a working download? aren't they usually included in nokia's own repositories?	12:10
psycho_oreos	if you think about it, there are a few other probable ways without having to rely on nokia's repositories, combined/fiasco firmware would no doubt have it for instance, then a few people for various reasons would post tarballs (both in compressed as well as uncompressed forms) of rootfs which would have osso-xterm extracted but really you can always repack them up	12:14
beagleburt	<psycho_oreos>: only link I can find is dead. Also I am a compleate newbe & what you suggest is way beyond my skill level?	12:25
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psycho_oreos	beagleburt, another question comes to mind is why do you specifically want osso-xterm? is it because you accidentally removed it?	12:34
psycho_oreos	I think things like fapman might also be able to do the job	12:35
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beagleburt	psycho_oreos, I have 20x odd "770's" that had a buggy OS2006 on them. I flashed Hackers Edition 2007 & found that it had Osso x-term on it. I also found that OS2007HE was very slow & sometimes had problems with WiFi connecting, so I have reflashed them all with the original OS2006 but several people would like to buy them off me WITH an x-term?	12:41
beagleburt	What is "fapman" please?	12:42
psycho_oreos	beagleburt, ahh now its somewhat starting to make sense. You have 770 that you want the osso-xterm for.	12:42
beagleburt	YES	12:43
psycho_oreos	faster application manager, I don't think you'll find a program for that with 770, afaik it only appears under N900	12:43
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beagleburt	psycho_oreos, ok ic	12:44
Pali	ping X-Fade	12:44
Pali	~seen X-Fade	12:44
infobot	x-fade is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego. Has said a total of 26 messages. Is idling for 3d 18h 49m 54s, last said: 'pawky: yes'.	12:45
psycho_oreos	beagleburt, so x-term is not available in those tableteer repositories?	12:45
beagleburt	psycho_oreos, have not found it so far	12:46
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psycho_oreos	beagleburt, well I personally don't have 770 myself though if its possible to install OS2007HE on one of the 770, install maybe dpkg-dev and maybe even dpkg-repack.. and use dpkg-repack to repack osso-xterm. That might help	12:47
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psycho_oreos	its a really long shot.. hmm whilst you're at it, would the OS2008HE edition work better at any rate?	12:49
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beagleburt	psycho_oreos, HMMM? I get the gist but beyond this newbe's current skill level...OS2008 did not have an x-term..	12:51
psycho_oreos	beagleburt, ahh bugger so only OS2007HE would be your best bet. Well I wouldn't know how to make it any simpler.. the real issue is that you have 770 and I don't think there are many 770 owners that are currently active	12:53
aholler	the owners or the n770?	12:53
aholler	;)	12:53
psycho_oreos	more like 770 rather than n770	12:54
psycho_oreos	:)	12:54
beagleburt	psycho_oreos, i may have to wait a few years & offer them up as 'Collectors items'	12:54
* psycho_oreos thinks N900 is more valuable as a collector item but shrugs		12:55
beagleburt	psycho_oreos, ha ha ha! I thought i was the only n770 owner left in the world you mean there's 769 others?	12:56
neal	I have two 770s in daily use	12:56
psycho_oreos	beagleburt, I'm only referring to 770 owners that are currently active on this IRC session	12:56
beagleburt	psycho_oreos, oh ic	12:56
aholler	neal: beeing curious, what do you use them for?	12:57
psycho_oreos	aholler && neal, instead of saying you have 770 near you, why not put it into some good use and help beagleburt out?	12:57
neal	mpd clients	12:57
neal	remote controls	12:57
beagleburt	neal, pardon my ignorance but what is "mpd"?	12:59
neal	psycho_oreos: I read some backlog and I didn't see a question	12:59
neal	beagleburt: music player daemon	12:59
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ShadowJK	770s have this self-destruct habbit, kinda like N900	12:59
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psycho_oreos	self-destruct habbit?	13:00
psycho_oreos	neal, he wants a copy of osso-xterm	13:00
* psycho_oreos has yet to see the self destruct habit on three of his N900 lol		13:01
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neal	according to my recollection it is in repository.maemo.org	13:01
neal	he just needs to enable the right repository	13:01
beagleburt	neal link is dead i think	13:01
neal	I doubt it	13:02
neal	if so, talk to x-fade	13:02
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neal	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo1.1/free/o/osso-xterm/	13:03
neal	that was easy	13:03
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beagleburt	neal, thankyou will check it out	13:06
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beagleburt	neal, this is the link i followed to nowhere: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/osso-xterm-advanced/	13:24
beagleburt	neal, i have downloaded your link ok - but am unsure how to install it on my 770?	13:24
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neal	then the 770 may not be for your	13:27
neal	s/your/you/	13:27
infobot	neal meant: then the 770 may not be for you	13:27
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mgedmin	if you open http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/osso-xterm-advanced/ with the browser on your 770, clicking the green Install arrow should (with a couple of confirmations) install that package	13:33
beagleburt	mgedmin, leads to dead-end (web-parking site)	13:38
mgedmin	maemo.org? interesting/sad	13:38
mgedmin	but it works for me	13:38
mgedmin	http://imgur.com/Za8n2	13:39
mgedmin	maemo.org has address 80.248.164.250	13:39
beagleburt	<mgedmin> http://maemo-hackers.org/?f	13:40
mgedmin	ah	13:41
mgedmin	this link was not in my backlog	13:41
mgedmin	yeah, the upstream homepage is kaput	13:42
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eichi	someone of you played sdlscavenger? called scavenger in maemo?	15:36
eichi	I cant finish level 12 and dont understand, how to to that ;)	15:36
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valerius	strange, xchat crashes on my nokia n900 -- moved the logs and scrollback directories and it ended to crash...	16:49
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* RST38h moos evilly, prays to the Tentacled One in the Depths of the Sea		17:54
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javispedro	moo RST38h	17:58
valerius	anybody alive?	18:00
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javispedro	no	18:00
* valerius installed subverfsion together with libapr and libaprutil -- it segfaults :(		18:01
* valerius tried several older builds -- the same result		18:01
RST38h	javispedro:evening!	18:02
RST38h	javispedro: And may I remind how badly Direct3D sucks?	18:03
valerius	maybeWTF, something is missing from its dependencies an it traps in a missing lib?	18:03
valerius	*maybe	18:03
javispedro	RST38h: to me? No need.	18:03
javispedro	the fun thing is that considering how far GL ES has gone, MS still wants to promote the even more retarded MobileD3D.	18:04
RST38h	javispedro: Obviously	18:06
wmarone_	how else will they lock you into their platform?	18:06
RST38h	javispedro: There are dozens of people at MS developing it and creating PP presentations showing how it is good for developers and MS domination	18:07
javispedro	wmarone_: with they own language .....	18:07
javispedro	*their	18:07
wmarone_	yup	18:07
RST38h	javispedro: The fact that nobody really needs it (except for all the above people) does not mean a thing	18:07
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RST38h	(It is not that GLES is free of sin though - once I have seen the mandatory shader declaration with #defines, I almost threw up)	18:08
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valerius	ppl, so, nobody uses a svn client on maemo5?	18:14
neal	use git :)	18:14
valerius	I need access to a svn rep :)	18:15
valerius	what is interesting, some older version worked fine for me, but I updated it and it become broken. Tried to downgrade it, but it still segfaults	18:17
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Macer	HELLO	19:09
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MacDrunk	hello	20:11
MacDrunk	anyone here	20:11
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Gh0sty	sorry we're not open today	20:12
Gh0sty	you can reach us by irc every working day between the hours of 8 and 12 and 13 till 17h	20:13
Gh0sty	;)	20:13
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Juozapas	;]	20:14
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merlin1991	Gh0sty: ++	20:42
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psychologe	has some body know how to multiboot :power-kernel,nitdroid,nemo,,,i see this thread talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73146, and do that ,but only can boot Nitdrod and Power-kernel	21:39
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badcloud_	how to close all apps?	22:22
jazedal	One at a time.	22:23
badcloud_	jazedal: arg	22:23
badcloud_	really...?	22:23
badcloud_	there's gotta be some app that can do it	22:24
jazedal	It might be possible to write a script to close the gui processes, but I don't see a straight forward way to do it.	22:24
jazedal	I've 10 or apps open at once, and I never thought it would be convenient to automatically close them all.	22:25
jazedal	s/10 or/had 10 or so/	22:25
infobot	jazedal meant: I've had 10 or so apps open at once, and I never thought it would be convenient to automatically close them all.	22:25
badcloud_	you say tomato...	22:25
jazedal	It never takes long to close them all, and I get to make sure I really want to close them.	22:25
badcloud_	it's just a finger/stylus hassle for something so basic	22:26
badcloud_	nm	22:26
jazedal	I see.	22:27
jazedal	Ask someone else.	22:27
badcloud_	I'll scour the seven seas/google some more	22:27
badcloud_	jazedal: thanks though	22:27
jazedal	No problem.	22:27
badcloud_	:)	22:27
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