IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-11-30

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DocScrutinizer	pro trick: switch off charging for a short while, so N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter will tell you the consumption of device's system, then re-enable charging and att this value on top of whatN900_Hardware_Charge_Meter tells you about current going into battery, and you get the USB current	00:01
DocScrutinizer	s/att/add/	00:01
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: pro trick: switch off charging for a short while, so N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter will tell you the consumption of device's system, then re-enable charging and add this value on top of whatN900_Hardware_Charge_Meter tells you about current going into batter...	00:01
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DocScrutinizer	of course after doing: <value> / Vbat * VBUS(5V). So roughly * 1.25	00:03
DocScrutinizer	err, /VBUS * Vbat	00:03
DocScrutinizer	so /1.25	00:03
DocScrutinizer	higher voltage on USB -> current is lower	00:04
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luke-jr	so… partitioning my new uSD… any reason to put swap first or last on it?	00:16
luke-jr	I'm inclined to put it last so when it destroys the card, the boot sector is unaffected	00:16
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DocScrutinizer	yes, you want VFAT first, if anything	00:21
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DocScrutinizer	my card looks like 12GB VFAT, 3GB ext3 (rootfs), 1GB swap	00:23
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: eh, I don't want vfat at all O.o	00:24
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trumee	ok, took the plunge and shorted the D+ and D- cables, now the charger works	00:24
DocScrutinizer	sure, why not	00:24
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: then you probably won't care much about stacking of partitions	00:25
DocScrutinizer	some MMC controllers in catd might take assumptions about location of FAT table(s) though	00:26
* luke-jr makes a 5 GB vfat just in case		00:26
DocScrutinizer	s/catd/card/	00:26
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: some MMC controllers in card might take assumptions about location of FAT table(s) though	00:26
luke-jr	5 GB vfat + 25 GB ext2 + 1.2 GB free + 765 MB swap	00:27
DocScrutinizer	hmm, should allow to even boot a PC from card, when inserted into USB-stick cardreader	00:28
luke-jr	so since I just stupidly wrote this before checking… what's the standard partition type for vfat? :x	00:28
DocScrutinizer	err wut	00:28
DocScrutinizer	numeric type?	00:28
luke-jr	0b or 0c ?	00:29
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luke-jr	wtf @ "Linux Partition Howto": "DR-DOS used 0x81 to indicate protected FAT partitions, creating a type clash with Linux/Minix at that time, but neither Linux/Minix nor DR-DOS are widely used any more."	00:30
DocScrutinizer	0C	00:31
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luke-jr	and the free space is for my new swap once I destroy the end of the uSD… safe? :P	00:31
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: sounds good, yeah	00:33
luke-jr	anything saner than ext2 for Linux?	00:34
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DocScrutinizer	for unclear reasons everybody likes ext3 for that	00:34
DocScrutinizer	might provide better buffering	00:35
luke-jr	won't the out-of-order writing cause chaos for ext3?	00:35
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luke-jr	if only ext4-without-journal was viable on N900… :/	00:35
DocScrutinizer	I heard it is and performs nicely, on powerkernel	00:36
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luke-jr	oh, they backported the journalless feature? O.o	00:37
luke-jr	still, I'm too chicken to try it on such an old kernel	00:37
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DocScrutinizer	ooops I missed the -without-journal part	00:41
luke-jr	power kernel also has some MMC-write buffering thing, which makes a journal even more scary ;	00:42
luke-jr	:p	00:42
trumee	DocScrutinizer, which is the charging current, http://www.pastie.org/2941219 ?	00:43
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DocScrutinizer	0x15 - 0x14: 2215 AI Average Current High - Low Byte 3.57 µV (1) R	00:44
DocScrutinizer	*3.57 / 20 = 396 mA	00:44
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trumee	DocScrutinizer, seems my wall charger charges at a low rate then	00:45
* luke-jr still can't get the charge script to work		00:45
DocScrutinizer	yes, it's charging: 1 CHGS Charge State flag. A 1 in the CHGS indicates a charge current (VSRP > VSRN). Charging.	00:46
DocScrutinizer	0x09 - 0x08: 4138 VOLT Reported Voltage High - Low Byte mV R	00:46
DocScrutinizer	looks sane for a almost charged battery	00:46
trumee	DocScrutinizer, yup battery is almost charged	00:47
DocScrutinizer	0x2C: 84 CSOC Compensated State-of-Charge % R	00:48
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	00:48
trumee	DocScrutinizer, will test this with two car chargers i have later on.	00:48
DocScrutinizer	you won't possibly see higher charge currents with a battery that charged, no matter what'S the charger	00:49
trumee	DocScrutinizer, ok. i will let the battery discharge for some time before i test it out	00:50
trumee	My main intention is to use 3g + gps in the car which eats the battery	00:51
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	00:51
DocScrutinizer	yu'll need a 1A+ charger for that	00:51
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DocScrutinizer	I've never seen a USB charger that couldn't do 1A	00:52
DocScrutinizer	well, CA-157	00:53
DocScrutinizer	:-P	00:53
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DocScrutinizer	err CA-146C	00:54
luke-jr	does power42 actually have working kexec?	00:54
NIN102	I don't think so.	00:54
luke-jr	:/	00:54
trumee	DocScrutinizer, http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0043W14DI is what i have	00:54
luke-jr	anyone here involved with power kernel?	00:55
trumee	DocScrutinizer, says 1A on it.	00:55
luke-jr	or know where to find the pre-patch version it's based on?	00:55
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DocScrutinizer	errr, isn't it based on maemo kernel?	00:56
trumee	DocScrutinizer, isn't CA-146C energy inefficient?	00:57
DocScrutinizer	trumee: yep, just probably needs D+/- short, or a cable/adapter doing that for you	00:57
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DocScrutinizer	CA-146, well it's "nice" but weak	00:57
DocScrutinizer	seems to deliver no more than maybe 500mA	00:58
DocScrutinizer	and yes it gets a bit hot on doing so	00:58
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DocScrutinizer	for constant charging or when in a pinch it's ok'ish though	00:59
DocScrutinizer	at least as fast as a laptop USB port	00:59
DocScrutinizer	actually fastcharge is vastly overrated	01:00
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: no, power kernel has the maemo patches split up as part of its own patch-set	01:00
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: the prepatched source has EXTRAVERSION=power :/	01:00
DocScrutinizer	well, then it bases on vanilla like maemo kernel, no?	01:00
luke-jr	no, vanilla doesn't have EXTRAVERSION=power	01:01
DocScrutinizer	sorry, you lost me. I'm no expert here either	01:01
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DocScrutinizer	I just know our hostmode kenel based on vanilla, with maemo patches and our own hm-patches on top	01:02
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luke-jr	yawn, this class 10 uSD doesn't seem very class 10y	04:17
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luke-jr	why is benchmarking so impractical? :/	05:09
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njsf	Heisenberg	05:16
njsf	ie, the fact that you are benchmarking affects what you want to measure	05:18
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luke-jr	njsf: it seems bypassing the filesystem helps a lot	05:29
* luke-jr blows away his swaps		05:29
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robbiethe1st	Bwahahaha. H-E-N, PK is /awesome/	05:35
robbiethe1st	The USB->SPDIF sound card module I ordered from China arrived today. I took it, plugged it into my microUSB adaptor, and plugged that into my N900	05:36
robbiethe1st	Ran H-E-N, vboost on, enumerate... checked dmesg and yup, it'd found it.	05:36
robbiethe1st	Checked alsamixer to see if it was recognised, and yup, it was card #1.	05:36
robbiethe1st	I then ran mplayer with ao=alsa and the right card arguments, and suddenly beautiful music starts coming out of the nice set of digital speakers I'd hooked up to it!	05:37
robbiethe1st	Almost plug-and-play(though as of yet I don't know how to have the stock media player use it..)	05:37
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godtrunks	Hy, i have a problem, my files are read-only and i don't have a pc, can u tell me hy i unmount and how i repair the errors??	05:41
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luke-jr	read eMMC=20 / 2G=12.5 / 32G=15	05:41
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luke-jr	write eMMC= 2.5 / 2G= 2.7 / 32G= 6.5	05:41
luke-jr	(all MB/s)	05:41
godtrunks	I write that in terminal?	05:41
luke-jr	no	05:41
luke-jr	I'm just talking to myself.	05:41
godtrunks	I'm noob with this	05:42
godtrunks	Can u pls tell me?	05:42
godtrunks	Not working	05:43
godtrunks	Not found :\|	05:44
luke-jr	…	05:44
luke-jr	that wasn't sarcasm	05:44
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luke-jr	I was literally talking to myslef	05:44
godtrunks	So, can u pls tell me?	05:45
godtrunks	?	05:49
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: so do you think rootfs is better kept on 20 MB/s read and 2.5 MB/s write, or moved to 15 MB/s read and 6.5 MB/s write? :/	05:51
DocScrutinizer	interesting question	05:52
godtrunks	Can anyone help me?	05:52
DocScrutinizer	godtrunks: install backupmenu, boot with kbd slide open, fsck	05:53
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DocScrutinizer	robbiethe1st: :-D, nice to hear you like H-E-N	05:55
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: for rootfs I'd clearly opt for faster read	05:57
luke-jr	hmm	05:58
luke-jr	I just wasted a few hours copying my rootfs then :D	05:58
DocScrutinizer	sorry	05:59
Trcx	What'd did you change to modify the read/write speeds?	05:59
Trcx	@luke-jr	05:59
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DocScrutinizer	eMMC vs 2G uSD vs 32G uSD	05:59
Trcx	Sorry for being a noob at this, but what do those acronyms stand for?	06:00
DocScrutinizer	while the size of the uSDs probably is just one facor	06:01
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Trcx	Are they filesystems?	06:01
DocScrutinizer	embedded MultiMediaCard vs different sizes micro-SecureDigital flash card	06:01
luke-jr	Trcx: uSD = MicroSD	06:02
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DocScrutinizer	eMMC == /home/user/MyDocs	06:02
Trcx	ah, didn't recognize the micro abbreviations	06:02
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DocScrutinizer	the µ doesn't work nice on a lot of IRC clients	06:03
luke-jr	I suppose rootfs on eMMC and swap+/var/tmp on uSD…	06:03
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: nor on my kb :p	06:03
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: yep, sounds sane	06:03
Trcx	How much battery life do you all get out of the n900?	06:04
luke-jr	Trcx: a few hours	06:04
DocScrutinizer	don't forget var/log	06:04
luke-jr	maybe a day if I don't use it	06:04
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: ah, true	06:04
luke-jr	maybe all /var ?	06:04
DocScrutinizer	yup	06:04
DocScrutinizer	varIABLE/	06:05
luke-jr	;)	06:05
luke-jr	but is /var needed to boot? :/	06:05
luke-jr	ie, before fs are mounte	06:05
DocScrutinizer	errr, maybe not	06:05
* luke-jr consults the FHS		06:05
DocScrutinizer	though on maemo everything is "different"	06:06
DocScrutinizer	see	06:06
luke-jr	I'm not using Maemo remember :p	06:06
DocScrutinizer	~optification	06:06
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit and partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and ...	06:06
DocScrutinizer	AAAHH	06:06
luke-jr	"/usr, /opt, and /var are designed such that they may be located on other partitions or filesystems."	06:06
DocScrutinizer	sure, yeah	06:06
DocScrutinizer	indeed	06:06
DocScrutinizer	that's the idea behind them	06:06
DocScrutinizer	damn bot	06:07
DocScrutinizer	infobot: literal optification	06:07
infobot	"optification" is "a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit and partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"	06:07
DocScrutinizer	infobot: no, optification is <reply>optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit and partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2	06:09
infobot	okay, DocScrutinizer	06:09
DocScrutinizer	bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3	06:09
DocScrutinizer	fuuuuck	06:09
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DocScrutinizer	infobot: no, optification is <reply>optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit and partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs	06:10
infobot	okay, DocScrutinizer	06:10
DocScrutinizer	infobot: optification is also ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS a""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 nd moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2	06:11
infobot	DocScrutinizer: that's too long	06:11
DocScrutinizer	infobot: optification is also ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2	06:12
infobot	okay, DocScrutinizer	06:12
DocScrutinizer	~optification	06:12
infobot	optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit and partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2	06:12
DocScrutinizer	~lock optification	06:13
infobot	DocScrutinizer: locking factoid optification	06:13
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DocScrutinizer	sigh	06:14
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: was it you who told me about a method way simpler than my scripts&symlinks idea, to track which binaries in /usr/.?bin get called when during boot?	06:19
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* DocScrutinizer suddenly has an idea like "strace -ft -e trace=open init"		06:23
robbiethe1st	DocScrutinizer, so, I've got a USB soundcard plugged in via HEN. It shows up as alsa card 1, or hw=1.0. How can I tell the stock media player to use that output?	06:25
robbiethe1st	And/or configure pulse to use that as the output on the fly?	06:25
DocScrutinizer	probably better "strace -ft -e trace=open -p 1" in etc/inittab	06:26
DocScrutinizer	robbiethe1st: on the fly? nfc	06:27
robbiethe1st	Well, without rebooting anyway. Something I can package into a script	06:27
robbiethe1st	And hopefully something that won't crash the stock media player in the process, like killing/restarting pulse likely will	06:28
DocScrutinizer	hmmm, I don't know PA a lot. For ALSA I could tell you	06:28
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: I replaced some with strace wrappers	06:28
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: I also modified bootmenu.sh to 'set -x' and redirect stderr to a file	06:28
DocScrutinizer	nice	06:29
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DocScrutinizer	robbiethe1st: you might ask javispedro when he's around again. It seems he wrapped his head around alsaped and stuff enough to tell you how to make a policy for mediaplayer aka musicplayback (or the policy that mafw is using is called)	06:31
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DocScrutinizer	robbiethe1st: probably redirecting all output to hw:1.0 is the most simple thing to implement	06:34
robbiethe1st	Yeah	06:34
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robbiethe1st	that's perfectly fine	06:34
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robbiethe1st	So long as I can switch it on and off relatively easily.	06:35
DocScrutinizer	but can't be done without at least restarting the whole audioservice	06:35
DocScrutinizer	initctl stop pulseaudio && initctl start pulseaudio	06:36
DocScrutinizer	>> load-module module-alsa-source-old source_name=source.hw0 device=hw:0 rate=480...	06:38
robbiethe1st	How can I run a command as user pulse?	06:38
DocScrutinizer	errr >>load-module module-alsa-sink-old sink_name=sink.hw0 device=hw:0 rate=48000 fragment_size=1920 fragments=4 ...	06:39
robbiethe1st	What do I need to add to /etc/sudoers to allow me to run /usr/bin/pacmd as user pulse	06:39
DocScrutinizer	su - pulse ?	06:39
DocScrutinizer	hmmm	06:40
DocScrutinizer	you can't run that cmd as user root?	06:40
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robbiethe1st	"No pulseaudio daemon running, or not running as session daemon	06:40
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DocScrutinizer	HAH,	06:41
robbiethe1st	ps \| grep pulse shows "/usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority --resamp" running as pulse	06:41
DocScrutinizer	### Sink for playing ringtones to both IHF and BT/HSP	06:41
DocScrutinizer	load-module module-combine sink_name=sink.hw0andhw1 slaves=sink.hw0,sink.hw1 slave_amps=0,-28 resample_method=trivial adjust_	06:41
DocScrutinizer	time=1	06:41
DocScrutinizer	duh, session dbus on user pulse?	06:42
robbiethe1st	So how can I send it commands, then?	06:42
DocScrutinizer	anyway, just copy some file in /etc/sudoers.d/* and edit to read pulse instead of root	06:42
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DocScrutinizer	robbiethe1st: see	06:47
DocScrutinizer	### Default static drivers	06:47
DocScrutinizer	load-module module-alsa-sink-old sink_name=sink.hw0 device=hw:0 rate=48	06:47
DocScrutinizer	and ff	06:47
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DocScrutinizer	in /etc/pulse/system.pa	06:47
robbiethe1st	yeah	06:48
DocScrutinizer	but probably your aproach is way better	06:48
robbiethe1st	If I can manage to figure out a way to actually /run a command/... yeah	06:48
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DocScrutinizer	nevertheless having a look to the above mentioned file, and siblings, esp /usr/share/policy/etc/current/pulse/xpolicy.conf might help to properly define a dedicated policy etc for your card, with own volume and all	06:50
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robbiethe1st	yeah	06:51
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massoud	hi there, I have kwheeteur (0.6.1.1) installed on my n900 but oauth doesnt work when I create account and get redirect to api.twitter.com w/ microB	11:34
massoud	when i input my account details, nothing happens and I dont see how to change the browser to be used by khweeteur to get the twitter token	11:35
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Phlogistique	neal: ping	11:36
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massoud	anyone is using khweeteur as twitter client on n900 ?	11:45
chem\|st	massoud: sry am not using twitter at all	11:45
massoud	chem\|st: no pb :)	11:46
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SpeedEvil	massoud: Occasopnally, though I need to set it up again on my spare n900	11:47
SpeedEvil	which is now my main	11:47
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ad-n770	I'm using a nokia n810 and I've the feeling to I've read somewhere that dsppcmsink was locking the cpu to a certain MHz speed	11:52
ad-n770	something specific for the comunication between the arm core and the dsp	11:53
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ad-n770	there's any trick to manually lock the arm cpu to a certain speed instead of having it being adaptive to the load	11:54
ad-n770	?	11:54
ad-n770	or a tool that I could install?	11:54
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ad-n770	the requirement is because I'm profiling some code with oprofile and the adaptive behaviour doesn't seems to give me the expected figures	11:55
Shapeshifter	Is there some way of 'alt-tabbing' on the n900 without going over the task manager?	11:55
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Shapeshifter	also, where is the ctrl-backspace hotkey hooked and is it possible to remap it to something other than 'show taskmanager'	11:56
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Sicelo	if u have cssu or modified-hildon-desktop, yes Shapeshifter	11:57
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derf	ad-n770: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1389367	11:57
Shapeshifter	Sicelo: I have CSSU	11:58
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Sicelo	http://my.svgalib.org/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html, http://wiki.maemo.org/Modified_Hildon_Desktop	12:02
Sicelo	apllies to cssu as well	12:02
ad-n770	derf: thanks	12:02
derf	Yer welcome.	12:02
Shapeshifter	Sicelo: thanks	12:02
Sicelo	yw :)	12:03
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LaoLang_cool	Upgraded to CSSU testing	12:19
LaoLang_cool	Can't notice anything changed...	12:20
LaoLang_cool	orientation lock has set to auto-orientation enabled, but seems not working	12:20
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lardman\|work	DocScrutinizer: you about?	13:12
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lardman\|work	I'm just thinking about the offline cellid/wap ssid database/service we were discussing some time back	13:14
lardman\|work	wondering what the difference between opencellid and openbmap is, other than the fact openbmap handles no only cell ids but also WAP SSIDs	13:15
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chem\|st	lardman\|work: should work, scrambel eggs any time I close my device	13:19
lardman\|work	scramble eggs? Eh? Making me hungry even if I don't understand ;)	13:20
Pali	ping X-Fade	13:22
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Pali	~seen X-Fade	13:23
infobot	x-fade is currently on #maemo (20h 47m 2s) #harmattan (20h 47m 2s) #meego (20h 47m 2s). Has said a total of 17 messages. Is idling for 18h 40m 4s, last said: 'djszapi_: But that was before he changed jobs.'.	13:23
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chem\|st	lardman\|work: my desktop goes portrait each time I close the device and I get like 'scrambled eggs' with my icons	13:32
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lardman\|work	ah I see	13:33
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massoud	hey, anyone using khweeteur on n900 here ?	13:49
HaXeri	i have n900	13:49
HaXeri	i recommend it really good phone	13:49
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Sicelo	anyone have a /rb.log file? it just has GOT HERE lines, weird	13:59
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vi_____	HaXeri: n900 is a TERRIBLE phone.	14:06
Sicelo	ah, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-07-06.log.html#t2010-07-06T17:46:20	14:09
ruskie	http://www.reghardware.com/2011/11/30/microsoft_tempts_rivals_with_winpho_demo/ <-- for all those that want it ;)	14:12
joga	does n900 have such features? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/11/secret-software-logging-video/	14:13
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jonwil	Compared to the piece of junk that was my Motorola Z6, the N900 is a good phone	14:14
jonwil	It does what I need and any other arguments dont matter to me	14:14
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joga	n900 is the best ssh-in-pocket-and-stuff imo	14:14
jonwil	About the only thing I wish it had was a better maps option, one that could display and use Google Transit GTFS data	14:15
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ruskie	joga, considering the kernel is open and can roll your own I doubt it... but of course unless you can check through it all it's impossible to note	14:17
ruskie	though I similar test could be done with the N900	14:17
ruskie	there's a kernel patch somewhere that allows to push all IP connections through a specific proxy so you could try that I guess	14:17
ruskie	to see what exactly is happening	14:18
ruskie	if anything	14:18
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jonwil	bah, not getting anywhere with icd-wlan-priority, cant find anyone who is interested in helping me test stuff/get logs	15:19
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neal	jonwil: Why should I help you?	15:31
neal	jonwil: I gave you packaging advice, which you completely ignored.	15:31
jonwil	what advice did I ignore?	15:31
neal	jonwil: You shouldn't modify the a library in place.	15:31
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neal	jonwil: You have to copy it and then move it over the old binary.	15:32
jonwil	its been working just fine for everyone that has tested it so far	15:32
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: it's about problems when lib is in use	15:36
jonwil	well I haven't noticed any such problems in all my tests	15:37
DocScrutinizer	the processes using it will keep a file handle to the "old" version, even when it's "deleted"	15:37
jonwil	and we dont delete any "old" version	15:37
neal	DocScrutinizer: It is worse than that.	15:37
neal	DocScrutinizer: The data is mmap'ed	15:37
jonwil	we dpkg-divert the old version	15:37
neal	DocScrutinizer: And linux doesn't have MAP_COPY	15:37
DocScrutinizer	when you modify in place, the prog text and ram will differ	15:37
neal	DocScrutinizer: yes.	15:38
neal	DocScrutinizer: Say the library is 2 pages	15:38
neal	DocScrutinizer: the application faults in the first page	15:38
neal	DocScrutinizer: Then both pages are changed	15:38
neal	DocScrutinizer: Now the application faults in the second page	15:38
neal	DocScrutinizer: It now has an inconsistent binary: neither the first nor the second version!	15:38
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DocScrutinizer	yes	15:39
neal	jonwil: Also, when I asked for help reviewing my package, you never bothered.	15:39
jonwil	so yeah my understanding of dpkg-divert (and reading the perl code for it) is that it uses rename to rename the file	15:43
Shapeshifter	the mobile device market is going to hell. damn tablets	15:43
jonwil	so what happens is that libsms.so.0.0.0 gets renamed to libsms.so.0.0.0.divert	15:43
jonwil	any open handles to it still point to the file data on disk which has not changed	15:44
jonwil	then we copy that file to libsms.so.0.0.0 and change it	15:44
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jonwil	so at that point, open file handles still point to libsms.so.0.0.0.divert which hasnt changed. A reboot then causes the new lib to be read	15:45
DocScrutinizer	that's a tiny bit silly as some process could open the lib after copy before edit	15:45
jonwil	except that the only process that links to libsms.so.0.0.0 on the N900 is the CSD SMS plugin	15:46
DocScrutinizer	sure	15:46
neal	the solution is simple: copy to /tmp, modify there, mv in place	15:46
DocScrutinizer	yes	15:46
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DocScrutinizer	jonwil: note that the open filehandles don't need to point to a true file, so moving the lib to another name is basicaly not mandatory	15:49
neal	DocScrutinizer: The divert will cause the old libary to be restored on uninstall	15:50
DocScrutinizer	as long as there's still one open filehandle, the file data will persist even when it got "deleted" by e.g moving a new version over then name of the old one	15:50
DocScrutinizer	mv orig backup; mv orig /tmp/workcopy; edit /tmp/workcopy; mv /tmp/workcopy orig	15:52
DocScrutinizer	backup is basically irrelevent	15:52
DocScrutinizer	oops sorry	15:52
DocScrutinizer	cp orig backup; cp orig /tmp/workcopy; edit /tmp/workcopy; mv /tmp/workcopy orig	15:53
neal	DocScrutinizer: You need the backup to restore the old version on uninstall.	15:53
DocScrutinizer	neal: yes	15:53
DocScrutinizer	still it doesn't mater for the issue we are discussing	15:53
neal	it matters in the broader sense of how to modify the library	15:54
neal	dpkg-divert is the correct thing to do	15:54
DocScrutinizer	neal: I didn't say "useless", I said "irrelevant"	15:54
neal	you need the old version	15:54
DocScrutinizer	I'm talking about unix 101	15:55
neal	sorry, this is not unix 101 :-)	15:55
DocScrutinizer	if you need a file to be always consistent (no chance for races), you don't edit in place, but rather mv an edited version over the old name	15:56
DocScrutinizer	a process will happily continue to use the old version until close() & fopen()	15:57
DocScrutinizer	see var/log/syslog, logrotatae etc	15:57
neal	who are you arguing with?	15:57
DocScrutinizer	meh	15:58
neal	this has been established	15:58
neal	DocScrutinizer: Who did you sign your contract with?	15:59
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DocScrutinizer	this is unix 101	16:13
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DocScrutinizer	and Cpt Obvious obviously doesn't argue with anybody	16:15
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neal	DocScrutinizer: Who is Cpt Obvious?	16:16
neal	(I guess it's a joke, but I don't get it...)	16:16
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DocScrutinizer	The master of stating the obvious	16:17
DocScrutinizer	i.e. me	16:17
neal	you're saying you don't argue with anybody?	16:18
neal	weren't we just arguing?	16:18
neal	or do you prefer to be more politically correct and say that we were discussing?	16:19
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DocScrutinizer	I thought we were on same page	16:19
penguinbait	same doc, dff page?	16:19
penguinbait	diff	16:19
DocScrutinizer	except for me saying "this is basics" and you not agreeing on either that fact or the equation basics==101	16:20
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neal	are we arguing now?	16:20
DocScrutinizer	no	16:20
neal	ok	16:20
penguinbait	disagree != argue	16:21
DocScrutinizer	I can't even see where neal and I disagree	16:21
jonwil	this whole argument is because some other people say that my packaging scripts are not correct. As author of those packaging scripts, I get to decide how they are implemented even if it may not be the "right way"	16:22
DocScrutinizer	meh again, this time for longer	16:22
neal	you're welcome to do stupid things	16:22
neal	but rejecting advice on how to do the right thing is a way to lose respect and get ignored	16:23
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jonwil	ok, I will do things the right way	16:24
jonwil	changing packaging scripts now	16:24
penguinbait	well, as someone who breaks many rules, I can see your point of view. However non-conformity will generally come with a price	16:24
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peb	Hi folks ..	16:24
jonwil	I cant see my package being a candidate for CSSU if it does things the "wrong way" :)	16:25
jonwil	Can someone take a look at http://www.cncmods.net/files/operator-name-cbs-widget-0.1.zip and tell me if the changes I just made to the packaging are the right ones?	16:28
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jonwil	see, I listened to criticism :)	16:33
jonwil	lol, some idiot is asking about porting Maemo to the iPhail (aka iPhone)	16:39
inz	jonwil, that would be a great way to turn scrap metal into something useful.	16:39
DocScrutinizer	those "idiots" are our future users	16:40
DocScrutinizer	I usually welcome them	16:40
jonwil	hmmm good point	16:41
vi_____	orly? They are the bain of the forum.	16:41
DocScrutinizer	there's an initial interest in FOSS, so it's up to you to give the right answers to make FOSS more attractive than fruitcrap for them	16:41
vi_____	mmm	16:42
vi_____	atleast n900 does not come with pre-installed malware.	16:42
vi_____	(unless you count cherry)	16:42
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jonwil	What I posted was that, no, you cant port Maemo to the iPhone because of the closed blobs. But you could port MeeGo to it if you had the hardware drivers	16:42
DocScrutinizer	cherry IS malware, by any metrics	16:42
vi_____	DocScrutinizer: when you finally figure out how to roll the CSSU firmware for flashing, you can miss that one out.	16:43
vi_____	(and ovi widget)	16:43
jonwil	isn't anyone going to give me feedback no the changes I made to my packaging scripts to make them do things the "right way"?	16:44
DocScrutinizer	vi_____: I requested like 12h ago what's state of cherry in CSSU	16:44
DocScrutinizer	hope to get NotMyNokia into CSSU(-S)	16:45
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: you're a tall boy now, we trust in you :-) changing 3 shell cmds according to a template given isn't that hard	16:46
vi_____	jonwil: I would love to however I am a mediocre scripter at best. I know little about debs.	16:46
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DocScrutinizer	cp orig backup && edit backup && mv backup orig	16:47
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vi_____	DocScrutinizer: Not enough. I want full on removal of cherry binary and start up scripts so it is COMPLETELY removed. no trace. not even the .cherry file in /home/user.	16:52
vi_____	cherry, gtfo my system.	16:52
vi_____	also, wtf android.	16:52
vi_____	How can they have had that keylogger installed for so long with no one noticing?	16:53
vi_____	I guess fandroids are not as techno 1337 as they want to think.	16:53
DocScrutinizer	vi_____: seems easy enough: apt-get remove --purge cherry	16:56
MohammadAG	frals, fing	16:57
MohammadAG	err, ping	16:57
SpeedEvil	fong!	16:58
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DocScrutinizer	~fong MohammadAG	16:59
DocScrutinizer	~ping MohammadAG	17:00
infobot	pong MohammadAG	17:00
DocScrutinizer	tzzz	17:00
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vi_____	How are noobs able to braek the n900 so hard?	17:50
vi_____	They install god knows what.	17:51
vi_____	randomly alter files	17:51
vi_____	then get on the forum and cry that the n900 sucks.	17:51
DocScrutinizer	hmm?	17:51
DocScrutinizer	aah, yes. Usual pattern	17:51
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jonwil	heh, I consider myself a geek and someone who knows lots about linux and I was able to "break" my N900 (to the point where it only worked again with a reflash) by editing a dbus config file the wrong way	17:52
vi_____	lols	17:52
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net-split	best way do break a n900 is by usb hostmode :p	17:54
net-split	and attach some high end mouse or something	17:55
vi_____	that reminds me	17:55
net-split	mobile hdd would work prolly too	17:55
vi_____	when I attach a mouse	17:55
vi_____	with the usb mouse package installed	17:55
vi_____	it detects the mouse and shows the onscreen cursor, which is nice	17:56
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vi_____	however anytime I move the mouse it forces the cursor to the top left of the screen.	17:56
vi_____	Why would that be?	17:56
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net-split	oh...	17:57
net-split	that happend on windows98 if you minimized counterstrike and got killed	17:58
slonopotamus	net-split: oh, that's who caused "No more connections allowed in your connection class" on me?	17:58
net-split	maybe	17:59
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massoud	neal : i am using khweeteur and i would like to use opera as default browser for oauth token handshake as microB doesnt work for me :(	18:04
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vi_____	as microB doesnt	18:06
vi_____	work for me	18:06
vi_____	then figure out why dear liza.	18:06
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internetishard	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/30/smartphone_spying_app/ does the n900 have "carrier IQ"?	18:07
wmarone	lol, no	18:07
internetishard	they said nokia in the article. How can one be sure?	18:07
wmarone	it's a lot harder to hide software like that on something that doesn't fight you	18:09
wmarone	that and it would have been found two years ago and removed	18:09
internetishard	fight you?	18:10
wmarone	yes, you don't have to search for a local exploit to gain root access	18:10
wmarone	or fight a signature-based security system to install software	18:10
vi_____	internetishard: The n900 has been dissected more than a Roswell alien.	18:10
vi_____	all pre-installed spyware is known about and eliminated.	18:11
internetishard	when?	18:11
internetishard	Is there any?	18:11
vi_____	when what?	18:11
vi_____	There is a thing called 'cherry'	18:11
internetishard	all pre-installed spyware is known about and eliminated.	18:11
vi_____	It is what prompts nokia to send you those 'welcome to ur nu fone' text messages.	18:12
SpeedEvil	Also to incur premium rate SMS charges.	18:12
vi_____	SpeedEvil: orly?	18:12
SpeedEvil	Without notifying the user, in contravention of UK law.	18:12
vi_____	SONOVVABITCH	18:12
SpeedEvil	(how it works in other countries may vary)	18:12
internetishard	what are premium rate sms charges?	18:12
vi_____	SpeedEvil: I am on a contract, I did not know this.	18:12
vi_____	SpeedEvil: meh, it was 'apt-get purged' before I even added my sim.	18:13
SpeedEvil	internetishard: SMSs to (or from) numbers that attract more cash than normal numbers.	18:13
nid0	it also doesnt incur premium rate charges in any case	18:13
nid0	or at least, never did for me	18:14
internetishard	I accidentally texted back to a foreign number and ended up costing 60$ on t-mobile in the US	18:14
internetishard	would that count?	18:14
SpeedEvil	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10506	18:14
povbot	Bug 10506: 'My nokia' unsubscribe attempt costs money. This is in breach of the UK regulations on premium rate texts.	18:14
nid0	mine never cost money to unsubscribe	18:14
SpeedEvil	It may well vary with country, and how it's implemented.	18:15
nid0	i'm in the uk, on o2	18:15
MohammadAG	At least iOS says "Your carrier may charge you for Facetime activation SMS"	18:15
SpeedEvil	MAy also have changed since pr1.0	18:15
MohammadAG	Cancel \| OK	18:15
MohammadAG	http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTH0sUfMA5DNLCor4ORh4tFfEc6DXXbJtteTynE8nTa3vd8VggUO7gkKj0S2w	18:16
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pavi	I am using maemo fremantle 1.3 on N900	18:31
pavi	How do I upgrade the flash version on firefox mobile ?	18:31
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SpeedEvil	You don't.	18:33
pavi	SpeedEvil, Don't or cant ?	18:34
pavi	I am using http://wiki.maemo.org/Firefox_mobile	18:34
SpeedEvil	There is no upgrade of flash since 9.??	18:35
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pavi	SpeedEvil, I can't listen to audio streams from BBC radio one	18:44
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Sicelo	u might find that the flash points to a location u can actually type in media player	18:47
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Sicelo	i have found streams like that	18:50
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SpeedEvil	pavi: through iplayer, you mean?	18:53
pavi	Sicelo, on a phone? I wanna listen to radio	18:54
pavi	SpeedEvil, yeah iplayer damned needs 10 flash	18:54
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pavi	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34173&page=11	18:55
Sicelo	that's what i meant too pavi	18:55
SpeedEvil	In principle, get_iplayer may be convincable to work.	18:55
pavi	Sicelo, on a desktop i can easily find flash locaqtion but on n900	18:55
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massoud	do you know how to change the default browser used by httplib2 python modules ?	19:01
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pavi	By the way I cant find firefox on the mozilla site did they remove it ?	19:12
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pavi	https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/mobile/1.0/releasenotes/ says that I should go to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/m which is redirecting me to android market !!	19:13
pavi	Why does mozilla think that android is the only mobile in the world :O	19:13
pavi	got the correct one http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/7.0/maemo5-gtk/en-US/fennec_7.0_armel.deb	19:15
Trewas	too bad they dumped fennec on maemo, having a proper browser on n9 would be nice	19:21
pavi	everyone says future meego is doomed maemo is long gone . damn those peeps	19:25
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derf	pavi: https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/7.0.1/maemo5-gtk/ was the last official release.	19:28
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pavi	derf, oops ok	19:29
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pavi	Damn you BBC . I hate you .	19:35
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pavi	only thing is I get quality streams of radio from you . else I never would come to you	19:35
pavi	Libre.fm Here I come	19:35
Sicelo	pavi: does this play what u want? mplayer -playlist http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r1.asx	19:38
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SpeedEvil	WFM	19:40
SpeedEvil	(on my n900)	19:40
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pavi	Sicelo, it exited saying that cache has been filled	19:43
pavi	Sicelo, working now :) thanks	19:43
pavi	Sicelo, SpeedEvil got the entire streams list at http://bbcstreams.com/	19:45
SpeedEvil	neat	19:45
Sicelo	kewl ;)	19:45
Sicelo	u can put that in Media Player	19:45
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pavi	Sicelo, Yeah doing that :)	19:46
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DocScrutinizer	CSSU-Testing1.1 available for update	20:16
DocScrutinizer	reports about modest stability much appreciated	20:17
DocScrutinizer	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1131168	20:19
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: charging	20:19
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DocScrutinizer	hehe	20:19
DocScrutinizer	safety first, eh?	20:19
DocScrutinizer	the update from Tmaemo1 went smooth	20:20
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DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: could you close that 5k-posts thread please?	20:21
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1131169&postcount=5430	20:23
chem\|st	done	20:26
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: it was not letting me upgrade if battery is to low on previous releases so I thought it wont let me this time, would get a charge anyway...	20:27
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: thanks	20:28
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chem\|st	n9 still 579eur, I would buy one for testing if not that expensive...	20:29
chem\|st	a moto defy+ is like 275eur...	20:30
chem\|st	and IP67^^	20:30
chem\|st	s/275/230/	20:31
chem\|st	I'll have a look in '12	20:31
chem\|st	have some issues with sim recognition... but n900s are expensive too	20:32
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torpor	any mac osx users of Flasher-3.5 here? i'm trying to flash my n900 but i can't find where Flasher is installed to on my mac	20:43
torpor	if anyone knows, please tell me.	20:43
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jiero	hi, anybody using CSSU testing?	22:20
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NIN101	yes.	22:21
jiero	I found Fcamera based application conflict with stock camera	22:21
jiero	Both of those won't work after drivers-fcam installed.	22:22
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DocScrutinizer	umm, I don't think that's CSSU related	22:29
DocScrutinizer	the drivers are kernel-specific, and CSSU doesn't touch kernel stuff	22:29
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DocScrutinizer	I'm not saying it's impossible, after all CSSU comes with a camera-ui replacement. But it's rather unlikely it will mess with drivers	22:31
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jiero	DocScrutinizer I used to have extra-devel enabled and then it will work.	22:33
DocScrutinizer	umm, does it work now, or not?	22:33
jiero	Since first time I reflashed the N900, I mount only extras and POWER kernel.	22:34
jiero	Then I found this problem...	22:34
DocScrutinizer	sorry, you lost me	22:34
jiero	DocScrutinizer: ...	22:35
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DocScrutinizer	installatio of powerkernel is known to break fcam-modules, see PK-FAQ #1. CSSU should not mess with camera drivers	22:37
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jiero	DocScrutinizer so the PK in extra devel fixed this?	22:39
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DocScrutinizer	I think the FAQ should tell all about it. It's just that PK doesn't come with fcam drivers, but rather fcam comes with drivers for each kernel flavour. So if you install a new kernel after fcam, you got driver mismatch -> uninstall and reinstall all camera related things	22:44
DocScrutinizer	not at all CSSU related	22:45
DocScrutinizer	and an age old issue, pronanly THE #1 FAQ	22:46
DocScrutinizer	probably*	22:46
luke-jr	that's pretty retarded IMO	22:46
luke-jr	why doesn't power kernel include fcam yet?	22:46
DocScrutinizer	don't ask me what's up with that stuff	22:47
* luke-jr has included fcam in the Gentoo kernel sources for years now		22:48
DocScrutinizer	I never even wrapped my head around how fcam deploys matching drivers for different kernels	22:48
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: it's basically a modified cam driver	22:48
DocScrutinizer	so what? I know that	22:48
luke-jr	not sure what you mean by "how" then	22:49
DocScrutinizer	how as in.... HOW	22:49
DocScrutinizer	apt-get install fcam -> what does it do to get the right drivers installed	22:49
DocScrutinizer	uname -a ?	22:49
luke-jr	I think it installs the modules for all of them?	22:49
DocScrutinizer	OUCH	22:50
DocScrutinizer	I'd like to know what's fcam maintainers' monthly expense for Aspirin	22:51
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ludens	yay new CSSU	23:47
ludens	curious to see the changes in modest	23:47
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merlin1991	it's 1 translation string and hopefully stable modest now	23:48
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merlin1991	ludens: report back if your modest appreas more stable, (not only slightly but a lot more stable)	23:50
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ludens	i was excited about the last patch that was implemented, but it only worked faster for a short while	23:51
ludens	unfortunately i dont have enough battery to update now	23:51
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ludens	merlin1991: the other day i almost threw my phone away because i was so frustrated by modest :)	23:54
merlin1991	modest frustates me a lot too :D	23:54
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