| DocScrutinizer | for those who know how to design hw, yeah :-D | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer | otoh no update releases for hw :-/ | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | a bug is a bug stays a bug, on EE | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | catch in in prototype testing or live with it | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | the cases where you can work around hw bugs with sw patches are really really rare | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | (and one of my favourite disciplines) | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Hardware is 'simple'. | 00:03 |
| SpeedEvil | You get X,Y,Z connected together in the correct way so they can all talk as defined by the manufacturer. | 00:03 |
| SpeedEvil | This is 'easy'. | 00:03 |
| whatever4ever | What is the major functionality that android lacks that maemo/meego has? | 00:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Software is hard. You have to create your own millions of lines of code. | 00:04 |
| whatever4ever | ... just to be blunt | 00:04 |
| whatever4ever | I wonder how much of the speed difference between n900 & android phones is the software and how much is the hardware | 00:04 |
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| kerio | whatever4ever: the n900 sucks | 00:06 |
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| kerio | it's *constantly* swapping, and the cpu is not exactly fast | 00:06 |
| whatever4ever | so the question would apply to that as: how much of that is because of software and how much because of HW | 00:06 |
| kerio | the software is really good | 00:07 |
| whatever4ever | orly | 00:09 |
| whatever4ever | So if someone got meego/maemo working on a nexus one then it would be sick? | 00:10 |
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| whatever4ever | thanks for the guidance Speedevil and DocScrutinizer | 00:23 |
| whatever4ever | If you've ideas about how to pack a lot of devices into a small place, then I'd love to hear them | 00:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - current designs pretty much do that. | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | You get a many layer PCB, and solder teh components to it. | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | You can get stupid component density. | 00:25 |
| whatever4ever | what do you think about the price difference and resistive vs capacitive | 00:25 |
| whatever4ever | There are some PoCs out there that do fairly light touch multitouch resistive | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm divided. | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | I like the n900 resistive. | 00:25 |
| whatever4ever | Same, but that makes me biased | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | If it did multitouch, it would be near-perfect. | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | stantum | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | The n950 (and I assume the n9) is close. | 00:26 |
| whatever4ever | A lot of companies claim that people can't use/don't like resistive | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Err - hard | 00:26 |
| whatever4ever | What's that DocScrutinizer, the price? | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Precisely selecting things is hard. | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Stantum = tin | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | The coating on resistive displays is largely indum-tin-oxide coating on plastic/glass. | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc | 00:27 |
| whatever4ever | strandum would probably be a lot to lisence | 00:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - capacitive dies if you get the tiniest drops of water on the device. | 00:27 |
| whatever4ever | not permanently.. | 00:27 |
| whatever4ever | yes, when I lived in chicago, I'd use my n900 with gloves and people would ask about it | 00:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | No, not permenantly. | 00:28 |
| SpeedEvil | But it can be useless until completely absolutely dry. | 00:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Which causes obvious issues if you absolutely need to look something up. | 00:28 |
| whatever4ever | I'm curious how much a really good resistive touch screen would cost to lisence | 00:29 |
| jacekowski | not a lot | 00:29 |
| jacekowski | people don't like resistive | 00:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | Or managers. | 00:29 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: capacitive deals with water quite well | 00:30 |
| jacekowski | at least one in n8 | 00:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: n950 | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stantum >> * | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | only advantage of c-ts: it can be hard glass | 00:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 00:34 |
| whatever4ever | How long with the n950 have support? | 00:34 |
| whatever4ever | I mean, how useful it will be in the future for general use? | 00:35 |
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| whatever4ever | Might get one from a friend | 00:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | The n950 is not legally saleable or transferrable. | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | At least if it's under teh same agreements we got. | 00:36 |
| whatever4ever | What's transferrable mean? | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Giveable | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | commercial DDP forbids sale for iirc 2 years | 00:37 |
| whatever4ever | Yeah, if the consequences are severe I don't think my friend will give me one | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | also you have to be aware N950 won't see much support of any kind in the future | 00:39 |
| whatever4ever | n950 won't play flash? | 00:39 |
| whatever4ever | http://versusio.com/en/google-nexus-prime-vs-nokia-n950 | 00:39 |
| SpeedEvil | No flash. | 00:39 |
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| whatever4ever | n900 even does that | 00:40 |
| whatever4ever | What's the deal? | 00:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Nokia soon will stop to provide updates for this exotic | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | not much sense in supporting a "community" of some few 1000 N950 "owners" | 00:41 |
| whatever4ever | Just thought it would be the same as the community of n9 users | 00:42 |
| whatever4ever | though tht eonly diff was a HW keyboard | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | at some point in time Nokia will offer to swap the N950 for a N9, and then they stop supporting N950 completely | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, the devices are fundamentally incompatible | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | On a low-level basis. | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | just similar enough to develop on N950 for N9 | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | On a software level, they are pretty compatible. | 00:43 |
| whatever4ever | I thought the n950 was build to help dev for the n9 | 00:43 |
| whatever4ever | oh | 00:43 |
| whatever4ever | okay | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | On an application and most upper-level UI stuff they are similar. | 00:44 |
| whatever4ever | Are you guys going to use the n9 as your main phone? | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | On a very low level basis, not-so-much. | 00:44 |
| whatever4ever | How will you manage without the HW kb? | 00:44 |
| nox- | i think the n950 was meant to be released as its own model until elop came along... | 00:44 |
| nox- | :/ | 00:44 |
| whatever4ever | a wrist keyboard? | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Speaking personally, though I have a n950, I'm sticking for the n900. | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | sticking with | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | same here | 00:44 |
| whatever4ever | http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2009/07/wrist.jpg | 00:44 |
| whatever4ever | until? | 00:44 |
| jaska | /wrist | 00:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | whatever4ever: Until it becomes unusable, or something better comes along. | 00:45 |
| MohammadAG | MGS4! | 00:45 |
| MohammadAG | I miss that game | 00:45 |
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| whatever4ever | you guys think you've optimized your n900 well? | 01:04 |
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| whatever4ever | If so, then can you pastebin a ps -A | 01:04 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: this newer stable cssu release | 01:04 |
| Macer | will everybody be forced to flash it? | 01:04 |
| Macer | or is it a simple pkg manager OS update? | 01:05 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: i agree. i just bought a replacement n900 :) | 01:05 |
| whatever4ever | Can the Contacts app be modified? | 01:05 |
| whatever4ever | I want to add a more functional groups feature | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're free to choose S or T CSSU, you can't switch on the fly though | 01:05 |
| Macer | S = Stable T = Testing ? | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 01:06 |
| Macer | can't i just install both and use bootmenu to hotswap? | 01:06 |
| Macer | :) | 01:06 |
| Macer | lol | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | *burp* | 01:06 |
| Macer | it has been a few months since i've had an n900 | 01:06 |
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| Macer | i am thinking of the wrong thing | 01:07 |
| Macer | the nand backup thing | 01:07 |
| Macer | it will come back to me later :) the thing you use to back the phone up to the SD | 01:07 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: but once installed cssu test will simply update through pkg manager? | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: free to choose - on installation of CSSU | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 01:08 |
| Macer | ok. i'd go wtih testing then | 01:08 |
| Macer | stable is for the weak | 01:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :shrug: | 01:08 |
| Macer | damn how can i not remember the name of the boot thing to back up | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | backupmenu | 01:08 |
| Macer | it eludes me.. it has been quite a while | 01:08 |
| Macer | ah.. yes! backupmenu | 01:08 |
| Macer | can't you hotswap from S to T with that? | 01:09 |
| Macer | just flash one then the other and make a backup of each and restore when you want to swap between the two? | 01:09 |
| Macer | or is that not practical? | 01:09 |
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| Macer | i am sorry. i am only asking because i would rather flash my n900 now | 01:11 |
| Macer | to get cssu up and running on it then tweak it out | 01:11 |
| Macer | and get back to the golden days of having an awesome n900 again lol | 01:11 |
| whatever4ever | so, can one modify the Contacts app? | 01:13 |
| whatever4ever | I want to add group functionality | 01:13 |
| whatever4ever | How do you guys not miss calls when fucking with your n900s so much? | 01:13 |
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| LaoLang_cool | How to know how many capacity of battery remains? | 01:17 |
| LaoLang_cool | morning here :) | 01:17 |
| SpeedEvil | You can't mofidy the contacts app, it's closed. | 01:17 |
| LaoLang_cool | SpeedEvil: no, I mean to get the info of battery, not contacts | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | I was answering whatever4ever's comment. | 01:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Do you mean the current state of the battery, or its remaining life? | 01:20 |
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| LaoLang_cool | SpeedEvil: I should have guessed that :) | 01:20 |
| LaoLang_cool | SpeedEvil: remaining life | 01:20 |
| NIN101 | LaoLang_cool: hal-device bme may be what you are looking for. | 01:20 |
| LaoLang_cool | I think it should be in /proc subdir, but can't remember exactly | 01:20 |
| LaoLang_cool | NIN101: thanks, I will have a look at it. anyway, where can I find batt infos by cli cmd? | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | See the scripts and other stuff referred to on http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or lshal|grep bat | 01:26 |
| SpeedEvil | that too | 01:26 |
| LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer51: that's what I'm looking for exactly, thank you! | 01:27 |
| whatever4ever | Who makes a shitty app on an open platform and then doesn't release source? | 01:28 |
| whatever4ever | fkn A | 01:28 |
| whatever4ever | I want groups | 01:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, the openness of the platform doesn't really extend to screwing withthe core of the platform. | 01:29 |
| whatever4ever | Contacts is just an app, what puts it closer to the core? | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | the core is open | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's nokia's apps and some middleware that's not | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jonwil: got sth to RE for you: thr fsckng mce plugins | 01:32 |
| jonwil | Already tried that and no, I cant reverse engineer the MCE plugins | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | my kbd backlight acts silly | 01:33 |
| jonwil | i.e. tried and gave up | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ooh | 01:33 |
| jonwil | cloning them that is | 01:33 |
| jonwil | I can find out more about what they might actually do | 01:33 |
| jonwil | if you name the specific plugin | 01:33 |
| jonwil | but I cant actually clone any of em, too complex | 01:33 |
| jonwil | last time I tried, MCE went ape-shit and nearly stuffed things up | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hah | 01:34 |
| jonwil | so do you want me to find out what any of the plugins do? | 01:35 |
| jonwil | If not, I will get back to reverse engineering eal-client :) | 01:35 |
| jonwil | aka tablet-browser-view-test | 01:36 |
| jonwil | which is different to the eal-client I posted to the list before :P | 01:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | well, abroad atm. Will ponder about it later | 01:36 |
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| Macer | backupmenu is still in devel | 01:52 |
| Macer | ? | 01:52 |
| Macer | no offense but are there even enough people to promote pkgs nowadays? | 01:52 |
| whatever4ever | So if they drop support on the n900/maemo, then why the fuck don't they release the source for the ""core"" apps?! | 01:55 |
| Macer | because they want to keep the patent | 01:55 |
| Macer | and it is possible for some reason or another they may use that base code again in something new | 01:55 |
| whatever4ever | patent for what? | 01:56 |
| whatever4ever | hildon? | 01:56 |
| whatever4ever | haha | 01:56 |
| whatever4ever | omg, GAY | 01:56 |
| whatever4ever | (had to revert to high school vernacular, no other descriptors work) | 01:57 |
| Macer | you would be surprised what patents hildon has that someone else may infringe :) | 01:57 |
| Macer | patents are idiotic | 01:57 |
| Macer | like "home button on the top right" | 01:57 |
| Macer | stuff like that | 01:57 |
| whatever4ever | software ones are ridiculousnes | 01:57 |
| Macer | incredibly vague | 01:57 |
| Macer | ALRIGHTY. let me drop my G2 8GB SD into this n900 | 01:58 |
| Macer | and roll the G2 over with my car | 01:58 |
| Macer | bbiab | 01:58 |
| Macer | so happy to have an n900 again! | 01:58 |
| Macer | :') | 01:58 |
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| Macer | libacl libattr | 02:02 |
| Macer | ugh... they seriously need to add those to backupmenu deps | 02:02 |
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| whatever4ever | cool app by your description *installing* (Backupmenu) | 02:03 |
| Macer | yeah. it helped me once before | 02:03 |
| Macer | it is similar to clockwork for android | 02:03 |
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| whatever4ever | When I've some time I'd like to build the newest pidgin and finch and OTR for the n900 | 02:04 |
| whatever4ever | OTR hasn't worked in a year | 02:04 |
| Macer | is telepathy closed? | 02:05 |
| Macer | conversations etc? | 02:05 |
| whatever4ever | If it is part of "core" whatever that is | 02:05 |
| jonwil | the conversations UI (rtcom-messaging-ui) is closed source | 02:06 |
| jonwil | Most of telepathy is open | 02:06 |
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| jonwil | telepathy-ring (which handles calls and SMS) is closed because it talks to the cellular services daemon | 02:06 |
| jonwil | which is the low-level daemon that handles cell modem stuff | 02:07 |
| Macer | libacl is called libacl1? | 02:07 |
| Macer | lol | 02:07 |
| Macer | wtf | 02:07 |
| whatever4ever | I thought we chose maemo over android because it was "more open" | 02:09 |
| whatever4ever | What does that mean? | 02:09 |
| whatever4ever | It isn't... | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | It is, generally. | 02:09 |
| luke-jr | whatever4ever: it isn't, no. | 02:10 |
| luke-jr | the only thing Maemo has over Android is X11 | 02:10 |
| whatever4ever | luke-jr: interesting insight | 02:11 |
| whatever4ever | can you use screen and get a remote X11 in android? | 02:11 |
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| luke-jr | … | 02:11 |
| whatever4ever | ? | 02:12 |
| Macer | i heard there was an xserver for android | 02:14 |
| Macer | i never used it | 02:14 |
| Macer | or tried it tho | 02:14 |
| Macer | but i have to agree with luke-jr .. this "open" stuff is bs | 02:14 |
| Macer | it is something that companies used to say to sound like they were a part of the developer community :) | 02:14 |
| Macer | just marketing | 02:14 |
| whatever4ever | marketing to the 1%, heh | 02:16 |
| Macer | well.. developers have this sick thing | 02:17 |
| Macer | where they hear "we are making an open os" and start to believe it | 02:17 |
| Macer | then find out a few years later that most of the stuff is closed | 02:17 |
| Macer | and that they simply allowed nokia to use their efforts in order to not pay anybody | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | There are many degrees of openness. From unlocked bootloader and nothing. Through kernel source and closed drivers, to kernel source and open drivers, to 'full' open - with source for almost everything. | 02:18 |
| Macer | i mean why pay developers when you can dupe a "community" into believing you are all about being "open" .. lol.. what a racket | 02:18 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: nothing is every 100% closed | 02:19 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: show me a fully open device and i will show you a flying pink elephant | 02:19 |
| Macer | haha | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | The neo1973/freerunner is the only phone that was the last. | 02:19 |
| luke-jr | anything less than 100% open is therefore "closed" | 02:19 |
| Macer | i blame china | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | The second-last probably describes both harmattan, fremantle, and android to a degree with some devices. | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, there are a regrettable number of chinese 'closed' tablets without even GPL offers, running android. | 02:20 |
| SpeedEvil | While they may have reimplemented the linux kernel as non-GPL, I have some doubts. | 02:20 |
| Macer | nice.. i have backupmenu installed | 02:20 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: there is no such thing as "open" | 02:21 |
| Macer | it is just a scam | 02:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | Macer: neo1973/freerunner was quite open. | 02:21 |
| Macer | the only way for there to be a truly open mobile device would be for the "community" to make their own cell company | 02:21 |
| SpeedEvil | And, yes. | 02:22 |
| Macer | then engineer devices that they didn't care would be copied and mass produced by india, china, russia, etc | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | To a degree. | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't personally care about a closed cellmo. | 02:22 |
| Macer | there is no such thing as a degree.. it is a scam | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | There are good reasons for it. | 02:22 |
| Macer | it is a cheap way for companies to get developers to do their dirty work | 02:22 |
| Macer | for free | 02:22 |
| Macer | cheaper than india indians | 02:22 |
| Macer | it is why apple is winning.. and nokia is fail | 02:23 |
| Macer | why windows is still the largest os market share on a pc and linux is always the "one that might" | 02:23 |
| Macer | open is a lie | 02:23 |
| Macer | not only is it a lie... but you have communities forking and branching and getting pissy and ruining any type of centralization which is where the advantage is with a closed source | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Computing is heading in scary directions. | 02:24 |
| whatever4ever | explain | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | See the recent mac closed apps thing. | 02:24 |
| whatever4ever | fuck macs | 02:24 |
| Macer | explain? | 02:24 |
| Macer | heh | 02:25 |
| whatever4ever | Sure powerful people have more power | 02:25 |
| Macer | apple is winning because there is an overlord that says what is what | 02:25 |
| whatever4ever | but so do novices | 02:25 |
| wmarone | SpeedEvil: sandboxing isn't a bad idea for security | 02:25 |
| Macer | whatever4ever: apple was about to go bankrupt | 02:25 |
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| wmarone | at least when not done badly | 02:25 |
| Macer | so i refuse to listen to the "apple was rich" theory | 02:25 |
| whatever4ever | I have to use a lame macbook pro at work, but I triple boot it | 02:25 |
| Macer | they were pulled from the ashes by the ipod.. and a series of closed devices | 02:25 |
| whatever4ever | Apple is fairly rich, actually | 02:25 |
| Macer | because if you didn't listen to the overlord you were fired | 02:25 |
| Macer | they are now | 02:26 |
| Macer | they weren't earlier | 02:26 |
| whatever4ever | one can tell by $/share | 02:26 |
| Macer | they were losing so bad to MS | 02:26 |
| Macer | that they were on the verge of finding a buyer or going bankrupt | 02:26 |
| whatever4ever | Well it is obvious what we want | 02:26 |
| whatever4ever | We just need to figure out how to market technology better | 02:26 |
| Macer | no | 02:26 |
| whatever4ever | *we* as in powerusers/linuxerz | 02:26 |
| Macer | a community needs to make technology that someone actually wants | 02:26 |
| Macer | and | 02:26 |
| SpeedEvil | wmarone: Sandboxing - done sanely - if there is a way to get out of the sandbox with user approval. | 02:26 |
| Macer | is open | 02:26 |
| Macer | meaning the community would have to engineer its own device | 02:27 |
| Macer | fab it | 02:27 |
| Macer | build it | 02:27 |
| Macer | distribute it | 02:27 |
| Macer | and make enough money off of it to cover all of it | 02:27 |
| wmarone | SpeedEvil: of course, I operate under the assumption that end-user control is implicit ;) | 02:27 |
| whatever4ever | Too much work/coordination | 02:27 |
| SpeedEvil | wmarone: sandboxing, and the assumption that the OS knows best and makes assumptions about data transfer costs, and ... | 02:27 |
| Macer | exactly | 02:27 |
| Macer | which is why being open is a lie | 02:27 |
| whatever4ever | it works with some things | 02:27 |
| Macer | there is no money in being open other than sounding open for a good market bite | 02:27 |
| whatever4ever | like the web runs on OSS | 02:27 |
| whatever4ever | We just need to figure it for HW | 02:27 |
| SpeedEvil | The fundamental problem is for 'community needs to' | 02:27 |
| whatever4ever | 3d printers should solve that eventually | 02:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Is money. | 02:27 |
| Macer | oh the software is there | 02:27 |
| Macer | the hardware isn't | 02:28 |
| Macer | there is NO open hardware | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Someone needs to sit down and plonk a fucking huge chunk of cash on the table. | 02:28 |
| Macer | NOTHING | 02:28 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: exactly. but the people with money aren't going to do it unless they see a return | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: I'd do it. | 02:28 |
| Macer | and NO company will do it because they have shareholders | 02:28 |
| Macer | lol | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | But ~$500 isn't going very far. | 02:28 |
| whatever4ever | It isn't just money | 02:28 |
| Macer | which is why nokia pulled away from symbian, maemo, and meego | 02:28 |
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| whatever4ever | When there the right conditions and the right startup | 02:29 |
| Macer | because shareholders are pissed | 02:29 |
| whatever4ever | it'll happen | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | If I had ~$50m spare, I might give it a go. | 02:29 |
| Macer | that will never happen | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | With perhaps $20m | 02:29 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: yoou wouldn't even need that much | 02:29 |
| whatever4ever | or when HW for mobiles settles down | 02:29 |
| whatever4ever | into something like x86 | 02:29 |
| Macer | you would need like 10m | 02:29 |
| whatever4ever | or at least that standard | 02:29 |
| Macer | and a fully open device | 02:29 |
| wmarone | Macer: they're pissed cause Nokia was doing FOSS, right. It couldn't have anything to do with the incompetent internal management that stalled the company for years? | 02:29 |
| Macer | lol | 02:29 |
| Macer | which you will never find | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: you'd need 10m for one fully open device. | 02:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | Macer: produced in high volumes with a shiny factor. | 02:29 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: not if you find a good MIT engineer :) | 02:29 |
| whatever4ever | wmarone: it isn't FOSS | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: It's _WAAAAY_ more than one engineer. | 02:30 |
| wmarone | whatever4ever: enough of it was | 02:30 |
| Macer | took 3 to make the first apple | 02:30 |
| Macer | out of wood | 02:30 |
| Macer | lol | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt | 02:30 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: so either way | 02:30 |
| Macer | saying there is a degree of open is being duped | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: The first apple was _orders_of_magnitude easier than contempory devices for many reasons. | 02:30 |
| Macer | there is no such thing | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Why opensource hardware is hard. | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: yes, there is. | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: If you go all the way to the nutty end, you insist on specs for everything. | 02:31 |
| Macer | lol... not as far as a mobile device is concerned.. not even PCs... even ubuntu has decided to rely on closed blobs | 02:31 |
| wmarone | Macer: what closed blobs? | 02:31 |
| whatever4ever | rely vs accept | 02:31 |
| SpeedEvil | This will end up costing you tens of millions easy. | 02:31 |
| whatever4ever | closed drivers are necessary today due to nvidia & ati | 02:31 |
| whatever4ever | for good linux distros | 02:31 |
| Macer | whatever4ever: exactly | 02:31 |
| SpeedEvil | And I personally don't care that much about some closed blobs. | 02:32 |
| Macer | they are necessary becuse ati and nvidia don't want to paste their IP to the entire planet | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | They're not the big issue. | 02:32 |
| whatever4ever | This isn't a catstrophie | 02:32 |
| Macer | and have the chinese make fake cards | 02:32 |
| Macer | :) | 02:32 |
| Macer | every company is thinking the same thing | 02:32 |
| whatever4ever | We just all need to agree on an organized effort | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | The big issue is can you totally gut and reinvent the OS. | 02:32 |
| whatever4ever | we'd need like 2 PMs from this channel | 02:32 |
| whatever4ever | project managers | 02:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | Closed graphics drivers don't really harm that. | 02:32 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: if you engineered an open phone.. companies would take it.. and close it | 02:32 |
| Macer | lol | 02:32 |
| whatever4ever | make some sites and ways of organizing the maemo community | 02:32 |
| whatever4ever | use our resources together | 02:32 |
| whatever4ever | a lot of us know great HW and SW guys | 02:33 |
| whatever4ever | get a prototype | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: In many countries, it's viable to sell direct to consumers, not through nets. | 02:33 |
| whatever4ever | get VC'd and start a company | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | whatever4ever: http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt | 02:33 |
| whatever4ever | Those are the steps^ | 02:33 |
| whatever4ever | if you're so inclined | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | whatever4ever: A prototype is going to cost ~$50K at least - neglecting thousands of hours of skilled dev time. | 02:33 |
| whatever4ever | not saying the HW will be open | 02:33 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: if you managed to make a truly open phone then you would have a huge base of buyers | 02:33 |
| Macer | you could probably charge $600+ per device | 02:34 |
| Macer | but it will never happen | 02:34 |
| Macer | :) | 02:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: You can't legally sell a truly open phone in many countries. | 02:34 |
| Macer | so this open crap is dreaming | 02:34 |
| wmarone | Macer: are you standing in for luke-jr as the resident absolutist? | 02:34 |
| Macer | it is almost like a bunch of aimless people not knowing where to go | 02:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Once the first person has misused it to do phone hacking, you have to reengineer it, or you will be guilty of the 'selling cellphone hacking tools' law in the UK, for example. | 02:34 |
| Macer | wmarone: lol. no.. i am being a realist | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | You're being an ass-hat. | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | No PC is open. | 02:35 |
| Macer | a truly open device is impossible and the sun will turn into a red giant before anybody ever sees it | 02:35 |
| whatever4ever | A little too much absolutism here | 02:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | It has numerous closed firmware blobs, in everything from the keyboard, to the chipset. | 02:35 |
| Macer | whatever4ever: pablo escobar swore that cocaine would be the liquor of the 80s | 02:35 |
| Macer | :) | 02:35 |
| Macer | and that cocaine was only in prohibition | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | A phone as open as the average PC would be a _huge_ step forward. | 02:36 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: irc will be around for decades .... when we are 80 in #maemo... show me anything that is open | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | This was - pretty much - the state of the neo1973/freerunner. | 02:36 |
| Macer | anything at all :) | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | See above comments about the scary way computing is going. | 02:37 |
| jonwil | The "closed blobs" argument doesn't apply to ATI anymore | 02:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer microwaves some more popcorn | 02:37 | |
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| whatever4ever | coke isn't very good | 02:37 |
| whatever4ever | have you tried it? | 02:37 |
| jonwil | ATI published their specs | 02:37 |
| whatever4ever | we've adderall, which even people who've done a lot of coke say is better | 02:37 |
| Macer | whatever4ever: the point is that being a drug dealer he expected it to all work out | 02:37 |
| whatever4ever | (4 amphetamines in one) | 02:37 |
| Macer | while the rest of the world didn't :) | 02:37 |
| whatever4ever | what's the parallel here? | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: It applies to the boot-rom in the chipset, the microcode in the CPU, ... | 02:37 |
| Macer | honestly ... luke-jr may sound like a jerk... but he does make a valid point :) | 02:38 |
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| Macer | anywas.. i am going to tweak my n900 now :) | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Insisting on phones being more open than the current crop of PCs is silly. | 02:39 |
| jonwil | yeah | 02:39 |
| Macer | still happy to have one.. but for me to sit there and say i have it because it is an awesome open device would be a lie.. i like it because it is like running debian in my pocket | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | The current crop of PCs is acceptably open. | 02:40 |
| jonwil | yep | 02:40 |
| SpeedEvil | There are issues. But... | 02:40 |
| Macer | i don't care if it is open or closed as long as it works the way i want which it does | 02:40 |
| jonwil | The current crop of PCs is acceptably open | 02:40 |
| Macer | it has xterm and x11 | 02:40 |
| Macer | win :) | 02:40 |
| jonwil | Most cellphones are not acceptably open | 02:40 |
| SpeedEvil | The current crop of phones are not comparably open to PCs. | 02:40 |
| Macer | most? none are | 02:40 |
| jonwil | The N900 is close to acceptable | 02:40 |
| Macer | not even the n900 | 02:40 |
| SpeedEvil | The scary part is that PCs are heading in the cellphone direction. | 02:40 |
| Macer | heh | 02:40 |
| whatever4ever | haha | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | The n900 - if most phones were like it - is fine. | 02:41 |
| whatever4ever | They said you'd have nothing locally about 10 years ago | 02:41 |
| jonwil | A N900 running MeeGo would be open enough | 02:41 |
| whatever4ever | all webapps | 02:41 |
| whatever4ever | we saw how that turned out | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Simply as if most phones were like it, there would be far more community effort in getting stuff done. | 02:41 |
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| wmarone | whatever4ever: and now MS is pushing secure boot in the most inconvenient way possible | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Rather than people wasting mindspace on 'roms' for android. | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Or rooting ios. | 02:41 |
| whatever4ever | rooting iOS? | 02:42 |
| whatever4ever | what's that? | 02:42 |
| whatever4ever | oh like jailbrake | 02:42 |
| whatever4ever | ok | 02:42 |
| psycho_oreos | jailbreak :þ | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Yes. | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | pop pop pop | 02:43 |
| whatever4ever | I want to addon the hardware for RFID on my n900 | 02:43 |
| whatever4ever | any of you do that? | 02:43 |
| whatever4ever | It would be convenient for copying rfid dongles | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | whatever4ever: you - almost - can't. | 02:43 |
| whatever4ever | and open doors | 02:43 |
| whatever4ever | for realz? | 02:43 |
| whatever4ever | I thought I saw a guide | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | whatever4ever: If you find a USB dongle, you in principle could use it with hostmode if you write the software. | 02:43 |
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| whatever4ever | nvm: http://barrieluv.blogspot.com/2010/06/oyster-in-my-n900.html | 02:45 |
| whatever4ever | derp | 02:45 |
| whatever4ever | probably the sexiest features of the nexus | 02:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - yes. | 02:46 |
| SpeedEvil | That's not really related. | 02:46 |
| SpeedEvil | You can as well say 'I added NFC to my poodle' | 02:47 |
| whatever4ever | Doesn't it let you copy and send RFIDs? | 02:48 |
| whatever4ever | from like any RFID dongle? | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | It's just an oyster card. | 02:48 |
| whatever4ever | hmmm, I saw someone copy a rfid key with the nexus one and open a lock | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | It's just attached to different plastic | 02:48 |
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| whatever4ever | was it not an rfid key? | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | It was not copying the RFID key. | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | It was using the RFID key without any modification. | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Simply removing it from the normal plastic card. | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | It's exactly the same as duct-taping the card to the n900 | 02:49 |
| whatever4ever | Definitely not | 02:51 |
| whatever4ever | Someone had a dongle that they put up to a lock to unlock it | 02:51 |
| whatever4ever | then this guy put it up to his nexus and copied it with some program | 02:51 |
| whatever4ever | and then put his phone up to the lock and upon it | 02:52 |
| whatever4ever | opened it | 02:52 |
| whatever4ever | at Defcon | 02:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | The above how-to | 02:53 |
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| whatever4ever | Nothing physical was taken in order to do this | 02:55 |
| whatever4ever | now you have me wondering | 02:55 |
| whatever4ever | unless you count electrons as physical | 02:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | The above howto is only duct-taping a RFID card to the n900 in a different form. | 02:58 |
| LaoLang_cool | NIN101: oh, I finally realize that `hal-device bme` is a cmd, thanks | 02:58 |
| LaoLang_cool | ;p | 02:58 |
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| NIN101 | yw | 03:01 |
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| jonwil | well that was easy | 04:01 |
| jonwil | Just cloned tablet-browser-view-test :) | 04:01 |
| jonwil | which is of value | 04:01 |
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| jonwil | since it shows you how to use a tablet browser view widget | 04:01 |
| jonwil | which is nice because that widget does lots of the work for you | 04:03 |
| jonwil | including zoom and pan | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 04:03 |
| jonwil | scroll | 04:03 |
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| LaoLang_cool | merlin1991: Thanks very much for your kind and your sdcv pkg for me :) | 04:08 |
| merlin1991 | I've also uploaded it to the official repos, it's in extras-devel | 04:08 |
| LaoLang_cool | merlin1991: so cool! | 04:10 |
| LaoLang_cool | Yup, I've found it | 04:11 |
| jonwil | I think I now understand pretty much everything there is to know about the microb browser and which stock packages use what part of microb | 04:13 |
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| LaoLang_cool | Any one could try to compile weechat for n900? www.weechat.org | 04:19 |
| LaoLang_cool | I prefer it much to irssi | 04:20 |
| jonwil | tutorial-home-applet uses browser-neteal to talk to the browser daemon. rtcom-messaging-ui does the same (although it claims to use tablet-browser-view it does not) and nokia-maps embeds the browser widget directly via browser-eal | 04:20 |
| LaoLang_cool | merlin1991: could you help once more please? :) | 04:20 |
| merlin1991 | what do you need? | 04:21 |
| psycho_oreos | he wants weechat | 04:22 |
| LaoLang_cool | Could you try to compile weechat for n900 please? It's a irssi like irc client but I like it more than irssi, its webpage is at www.weechat.org | 04:22 |
| LaoLang_cool | The src can be fetched at http://www.weechat.org/download/ | 04:23 |
| LaoLang_cool | The compiling method and dependents is at http://www.weechat.org/files/doc/stable/weechat_user.en.html#source_package | 04:24 |
| LaoLang_cool | The must-have dependents are cmake and libncursesw5-dev, but for plugins work, it's better compiled with perl and python support. | 04:25 |
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| jonwil | ok, now that tablet-browser-view-test is done, gotta figure out what to do next. I was thinking about clockd but its too complex | 04:32 |
| jonwil | same for libtime | 04:33 |
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| LaoLang_cool | anyone using vim on n900? | 04:42 |
| merlin1991 | only when I have too | 04:43 |
| LaoLang_cool | merlin1991: Don't know how to communicate the text with external app | 04:43 |
| LaoLang_cool | seems * and + failed | 04:43 |
| LaoLang_cool | It has the feature, but I guess maemo doesn't use the x clipboard? | 04:44 |
| merlin1991 | no maemo has some hildon-clipboard thingy | 04:44 |
| LaoLang_cool | hildon? | 04:44 |
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| Guest40473 | kids these days dont even know what hildon is. | 04:49 |
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| psycho_oreos | its not that they don't know, its more like they won't research for themselves | 04:52 |
| Guest40473 | tbqh nokia did basically dismantle their dev community... | 04:53 |
| Guest40473 | took me 30 mins to find the docs on N9 and still have not found the forum. | 04:55 |
| MohammadAG | it was the plan from the start | 04:55 |
| Guest40473 | qt mobility has api to get cellid, but | 04:55 |
| MohammadAG | fremantle, dismantle, coincidence? i think not | 04:55 |
| Guest40473 | community are the only people who are going to document anything like digging neighboring cells out of the baseband | 04:55 |
| Guest40473 | no community? shiny polished, dead, limited product | 04:56 |
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| jonwil | I doubt the baseband even exposes that information to the userspace | 05:09 |
| jonwil | why would it need to, the userspace doesnt need it | 05:11 |
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| LaoLang_cool | got disconnected... | 05:14 |
| LaoLang_cool | I find the way, press shift, then drap the mouse, then xterm could copy the selection | 05:14 |
| LaoLang_cool | s/the/a/ | 05:14 |
| infobot | LaoLang_cool meant: I find a way, press shift, then drap the mouse, then xterm could copy the selection | 05:14 |
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| jonwil | so anyone know of any control panel widgets that would be worth cloning? | 05:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | neighbour cells... well seems virtually every Nokia phone since at least 1999 had some so called netmonitor that was accessible via special AT cmds and FBus/IrDA. Wouldn't feel surprised to learn it's still buried in BB5 cmt firmware | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | also you dunno what liblocation&friends *really* does, neighbour cells are friggin useful to get a location without GPS available | 05:28 |
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| jonwil | aha, NET_NEIGHBOUR_CELLS_REQ and NET_NEIGHBOUR_CELLS_RESP exist in the headers I have. But I have no way to know if those are functional in the N900 or not | 05:34 |
| jonwil | or how to call it given that we dont have headers for libisi | 05:36 |
| psycho_oreos | grr this device is really pissing me off... is there any way to invoke bootmenu to run apart from having the keyboard slid out? I have tried numerous times in numerous ways to make the device get into bootmenu but it just refuses to. I've even reinstalled bootmenu and backupmenu which doesn't even seem to help | 05:37 |
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| jonwil | why cant you slide out the keyboard? | 05:37 |
| psycho_oreos | I have, done it many times but the device fails to even get into bootmenu | 05:39 |
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| psycho_oreos | my other N900 work, except for this one | 05:39 |
| jonwil | ok, it appears that the N900 does not have the right PN_NETWORK resource version to support NET_NEIGHBOUR_CELLS | 05:41 |
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| robbiethe1st | Is Bash installed? | 06:01 |
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| psycho_oreos | nope | 06:02 |
| psycho_oreos | you're not telling me that's a pre-requisite is it? *facepalms self if that were the case* | 06:03 |
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| robbiethe1st | No | 06:06 |
| robbiethe1st | Make sure sh is a symlink to busybox | 06:07 |
| robbiethe1st | also, try remove --purge bootmenu and backupmenu, then reinstall | 06:07 |
| psycho_oreos | I'll check those, the device came out of a clean reflash (vanilla+combined) | 06:08 |
| robbiethe1st | Hell, I don't know. I've never had any trouble myself when I got my new device, flashed it etc. | 06:09 |
| psycho_oreos | mine wasn't exactly new, for the 3rd device that is. Though I have had numerous troubles with this device | 06:11 |
| robbiethe1st | You can try flashing a BM-installed rootfs... | 06:12 |
| robbiethe1st | there's one on my website | 06:12 |
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| psycho_oreos | definitely going to give that a try if this still fails. Thanks | 06:13 |
| luke-jr | [20:35:20] <SpeedEvil> No PC is open. <-- mine is | 06:18 |
| luke-jr | [20:37:15] <jonwil> The "closed blobs" argument doesn't apply to ATI anymore <-- the only closed blobs argument ever was firmware, which is still closed afaik | 06:18 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Is the microcode open? Is the boot ROM inside the chipset open? ... | 06:19 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: the software is. | 06:19 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: considering OpenRISC for my next PC | 06:20 |
| SpeedEvil | The software running on the CPU includes that which is run at boot, which is closed. | 06:20 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: no, it doesn't, because that *isn't* running when I use it | 06:20 |
| SpeedEvil | As far as you know. | 06:21 |
| luke-jr | I wish it were open though… it only boots like 20% of the time -.- | 06:21 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: Linux would notice. | 06:21 |
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| psycho_oreos | robbiethe1st, no dice, going to use that flashable image from your site: flashable_rootfs_v0.56-1-20101109.img | 06:34 |
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| robbiethe1st | yeah, that's good | 06:34 |
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| robbiethe1st | it's compatible with all later BM versions, so... you can use it for chainloading your files | 06:35 |
| psycho_oreos | cool so you mean I can use it to restore compressed tarballs created by later BM versions? I was about to say with the filename, could it be that it contains a really old BM version | 06:36 |
| Macer | faster package manager should seriously be the default | 06:36 |
| robbiethe1st | Yeah; none of the important bits changed in later versions | 06:37 |
| robbiethe1st | Just mainly GUI stuff and extra features. File paths and contents are the same | 06:37 |
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| psycho_oreos | too bad FAM lacks a few things like categorising programs in different categories, and it doesn't handle Ovi stuff well | 06:38 |
| psycho_oreos | robbiethe1st, hmm ok | 06:38 |
| psycho_oreos | as long as I can hack it to make it support ext3 formatted emmc then I should be all good :) | 06:39 |
| robbiethe1st | yeah | 06:39 |
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| Macer | i swear i would love to know how nokia does its wifi | 07:29 |
| Macer | the n900 wifi can go through 3ft lead across a room and up some stairs.. with my g2 i was happy to get a signal with the door closed | 07:30 |
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| ShadowJK | N9 supposedly performs more like g2 ;) | 07:41 |
| Macer | so... like crap? | 07:42 |
| Macer | margin call is a great movie | 07:42 |
| Macer | 80% of the people were just laid off and he is sad over his dog dying | 07:43 |
| Macer | cssu should make faster application manager the default | 07:46 |
| ShadowJK | when it doesn't screw up certain things? :) | 07:56 |
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| LaoLang_cool | I try to install an app via dpkg -i, but it says some depends missing, is there an option to let dpkg solve depends automatically? | 08:03 |
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| psycho_oreos | no | 08:11 |
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| LaoLang_cool_ | I got disconnected... | 08:12 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | Anyone has helped me? | 08:13 |
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| psycho_oreos | answer is no | 08:13 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: thank you | 08:13 |
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| LaoLang_cool_ | merlin1991: thank you your weechat! it works fine | 08:18 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | merlin1991: it would be better if it supports perl/python :) | 08:21 |
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| LaoLang_cool_ | I think it can be uploaded to repo | 08:21 |
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| Macer | anybody know of a good silicon cover for an n900 | 08:23 |
| Macer | ? | 08:23 |
| psycho_oreos | otterbox case | 08:24 |
| Macer | does it slide? | 08:24 |
| Macer | to access the keybaord? | 08:25 |
| psycho_oreos | yes | 08:25 |
| Macer | nice. thanks. | 08:25 |
| psycho_oreos | nw | 08:25 |
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| Jef91 | Anyone know how I can get X running from a Debian Chroot on the n900? | 08:25 |
| Jef91 | I've got a terminal of it, just not sure how to get X running | 08:26 |
| psycho_oreos | are you using easy debian? | 08:27 |
| Jef91 | I installed with that yea | 08:27 |
| Jef91 | but hitting the "lxde" option in the menu doesn't launch anything | 08:27 |
| Macer | doh! | 08:27 |
| Macer | amazon doesn't have any :( | 08:27 |
| psycho_oreos | Jef91, that debian LXDE was supposed to launch debian chroot with X running. Though it takes a bit of time | 08:28 |
| psycho_oreos | Macer, I think they're getting quite rare now, otterbox may still sell them on their own site, if not there's always fleabay | 08:29 |
| Jef91 | Yea it dumps out | 08:30 |
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| Macer | hah | 08:31 |
| Macer | psycho_oreos: what about the other company... | 08:31 |
| Macer | amzer | 08:31 |
| psycho_oreos | Macer, amzer? never heard. fyi otterbox case for N900 (commuter series) is not a silicon cover, the material used to make the case is some sort of ABS plastic | 08:33 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | How to set x resource for xterm? I want to change its background/foreground | 08:34 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | color | 08:34 |
| Macer | http://www.amazon.com/Windshield-Mount-Holder-Large-Suction/dp/B0038B4BY4/ref=sr_1_65?ie=UTF8&qid=1320474859&sr=8-65 | 08:35 |
| Macer | does tht look like an n900 in the pic? :) | 08:35 |
| Macer | hahaha | 08:35 |
| Macer | psycho_oreos: yeah i saw that. i will check their site otherwise i will get the amzer one | 08:35 |
| Macer | tnx | 08:35 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, under X Terminal, there's a blue down arrow, hit that and hit color | 08:35 |
| psycho_oreos | s/color/font/ | 08:36 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: LaoLang_cool_, under X Terminal, there's a blue down arrow, hit that and hit font | 08:36 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: nice, thank you, I wonder if maemo supports to set up in .Xdefault? seems it doesn't | 08:38 |
| psycho_oreos | Macer, I personally have tried two other cases for N900, but none is as superior as otterbox commuter series case for N900. After several times of removing N900 from the case and replacing it back into the case I never had its plastic tabs falling off. Had those plastic tabs falling off the fitting of the case back onto N900 would be very loose. Also from accidental dropping showed N900 in otterbox case showed no damage to either the case or the device, wh | 08:38 |
| psycho_oreos | ereas my first clear case actually cracked | 08:38 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, don't know it might | 08:39 |
| Jef91 | where does maemo keep it's .desktop files? | 08:40 |
| psycho_oreos | various parts of the filesystem, probably a good idea to issue a find on them | 08:40 |
| Jef91 | how about easy debian? | 08:41 |
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| psycho_oreos | Jef91, /usr/share/applications/hildon | 08:44 |
| Jef91 | thanks! | 08:46 |
| Jef91 | Got Enlightenment running on this thing finally | 08:46 |
| Jef91 | Looks really slick | 08:46 |
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| Jef91 | anyone know where easy debian saves it's settings to | 09:00 |
| Jef91 | like things that would normally go in ~/ where do they go? | 09:00 |
| psycho_oreos | settings are saved into the image itself | 09:01 |
| Macer | hostmode easy now? | 09:03 |
| Macer | wth? | 09:04 |
| jonwil | I think Rule #1 of looking after a N900 is to ensure that you NEVER have the phone plugged into USB (data or charging) unless the phone is in a position where accidentally bumping the cable is not possible | 09:05 |
| jonwil | I make sure my N900 is never somewhere it can be knocked off with the cable plugged in | 09:05 |
| Macer | lol. me too. i put it on a velvet pillow | 09:08 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | how to see ip? there isn't ipconfig cmd | 09:08 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | ifconfig | 09:08 |
| Macer | i was going to try to use a duracell mygrid | 09:08 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | oh, it's available when I'm root | 09:09 |
| Macer | and see if it were possible to put the microusb clip on without ruining the cam | 09:09 |
| Macer | i also have 2 batteries now heh | 09:10 |
| Macer | does hostmode work on the n900?? | 09:10 |
| Macer | homescreen dockbar? | 09:12 |
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| psycho_oreos | hostmode does work with N900 only if you have power kernel (at least version 46 iinm) | 09:14 |
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| LaoLang_cool_ | what's the default password for root? | 09:22 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | I'm trying to ssh into n900, but it needs root's passwd | 09:22 |
| psycho_oreos | did you install sshd? | 09:23 |
| xkr47 | LaoLang_cool_, http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access | 09:23 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: yes | 09:23 |
| xkr47 | LaoLang_cool_, I use rootsh | 09:23 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | xkr47: nice! | 09:24 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | rootme works | 09:24 |
| Macer | psycho_oreos: well i will tell you how this case goes ;) | 09:28 |
| Macer | if it is any good i might get a couple more | 09:28 |
| Macer | i wish they had red ones still but they don't :( | 09:29 |
| Macer | what is home screen dockbar? | 09:29 |
| psycho_oreos | Macer, lol they're black by default and its the only colour. What's wrong with black anyway? N900 is black by default lol | 09:30 |
| Macer | oh i actually got a clear one | 09:30 |
| Macer | because that was one of the few ones in stock :( | 09:30 |
| Macer | i don't care about the color. i'm not really worried too much about drops .. if it takes 1 hit from a drop i'm happy and it has done its job | 09:30 |
| Macer | it's the minor scratches from common use that i can't stand | 09:30 |
| Macer | humanity theme for maemo lol | 09:31 |
| Macer | too funny | 09:31 |
| Macer | i am going through the faster app manager still installing apps... geez there are a ton of them | 09:31 |
| psycho_oreos | clear otterbox case? | 09:32 |
| Macer | no.. the other brand... i might get an otterbox too | 09:32 |
| Macer | just as a backup | 09:32 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh wait those clear crystal cases | 09:32 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | what's the passwd for user? I try to ssh user@myip | 09:33 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah I've dropped it once I think and it cracked the screen portion of the crystal case. | 09:33 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, there's none | 09:33 |
| Macer | amzer | 09:33 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: but it fails if I simply hit enter | 09:33 |
| Macer | psycho_oreos: yeah. i don't intend on dropping my n900 ;) | 09:33 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | maybe user doesn't allowed to use sshd service? | 09:33 |
| psycho_oreos | I haven't heard of amzer but I bought this (somewhat cheap) generic one from the shops. Didn't last long though | 09:33 |
| Macer | i'm usually incredibly careful with my gadgets.. ever since the n810 cotastrophe | 09:34 |
| Macer | lol | 09:34 |
| Macer | i'm still kicking myself for that one | 09:34 |
| psycho_oreos | Macer, I know I know.. neither do I (or most of us anyway), though accidents can and will happen :) the last thing you want is a broken N900 | 09:34 |
| Macer | oh i agree.. but there is only so much that a case can do ;) | 09:34 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, no they're allowed, its just there's no passwd set.. you can set it via root however | 09:34 |
| Macer | if i were that paranoid i would get the aluminum boxwave armored case | 09:34 |
| psycho_oreos | Macer, indeed | 09:34 |
| Macer | honestly i would get it now if it slid open | 09:34 |
| Macer | but it doesn't :/ | 09:35 |
| Macer | psycho_oreos: these n900 accessories are geting more and more rare | 09:35 |
| Macer | i think i might actually purchase extra parts just in case | 09:35 |
| Macer | like housings and keypads | 09:35 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: hmm, nice, it works! | 09:36 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: thank you! | 09:36 |
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| psycho_oreos | Macer, it is true that N900 accessories are getting rare.. I guess its really inevitable that accessories are only there when there's a huge demand for it.. though its really nokia for you in other sense | 09:37 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, nw | 09:37 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | n900 is so cool! | 09:37 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | for geek... | 09:37 |
| psycho_oreos | for a linux user :P | 09:39 |
| psycho_oreos | s/user/lover/ | 09:40 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: for a linux lover :P | 09:40 |
| psycho_oreos | N950 is even more cool than N900 had it been made available to the public | 09:41 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | I hear that n950 is only available for developer | 09:41 |
| psycho_oreos | indeed, and that still is the case.. only for the selected developers | 09:42 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | can't understand | 09:43 |
| psycho_oreos | N950 is still only for developers.. but nokia gave it out to developers which meets the criteria fit for nokia to hand them out. You can be a developer, no problems with that but if you cannot do the things that nokia for example requests you to do as a developer you're basically not fit for the task. | 09:47 |
| Macer | is there a usable sftp client for mameo? | 09:49 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | I hope I can be a developer on someday :) | 09:49 |
| psycho_oreos | If you're not fit for the task, you won't get N950 as a result | 09:49 |
| Macer | gftp is still broken | 09:49 |
| Macer | :( | 09:49 |
| psycho_oreos | sshfs ftw | 09:49 |
| Macer | does sshfs work in maemo?? | 09:50 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, unfortunately requests for N950 developer's device has long been closed | 09:50 |
| psycho_oreos | Macer, it does for me | 09:50 |
| Macer | can you show me an example syntax to mount? | 09:50 |
| psycho_oreos | sshfs user@host:/remote/dir /local/dir | 09:52 |
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| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: oh... | 09:52 |
| Macer | usage: sshfs [user@]host:[dir] mountpoint [options] | 09:53 |
| Macer | oops.. awesome thanks... do i have to do it as root? | 09:53 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, they only had 400 N950 to hand out for Qt developers. Many applied in the first round (which only 350 were to be handed out), then they had a second round (which they only could send out 50) | 09:53 |
| psycho_oreos | Macer, no, if you do it means only root can access that mount point | 09:53 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: nokia has abandoned the development on meego, so I guess few developer would get intested in it | 09:55 |
| Macer | fuse: failed to open /dev/fuse: Permission denied | 09:56 |
| Macer | lame | 09:56 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, that's beside the point, N950 is far superior than N900 in almost every way. The N950 were used by developers to port their programs into Qt so that N9 users can use it | 09:57 |
| psycho_oreos | Macer, hmm try as root then (which means you'll have to use root to see things and do transfers, etc) | 09:57 |
| Macer | that sucks | 09:57 |
| Macer | i just wanted to copy and paste from filemanager | 09:58 |
| Macer | maybe i can set an acl on /dev/fuse | 09:58 |
| Macer | lol | 09:58 |
| psycho_oreos | you might be able to run that as root *snickers* | 09:58 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: sounds interesting, n900 is still ok | 09:58 |
| psycho_oreos | or stickybit.. suid :) | 09:58 |
| Macer | omg that is lame too | 09:58 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, not saying N900 is bad but N950 is rare and its cooler. I was one of the many candidates for the N950 devkit but failed to get shortlisted. Had I have N950 I wouldn't want N9 | 09:59 |
| psycho_oreos | s/cooler/cool/ | 10:00 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: LaoLang_cool_, not saying N900 is bad but N950 is rare and its cool. I was one of the many candidates for the N950 devkit but failed to get shortlisted. Had I have N950 I wouldn't want N9 | 10:00 |
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| jaska | i wouldnt mind more ram for a n900 :| | 10:00 |
| psycho_oreos | jaska, virtually impossible | 10:00 |
| jaska | i know | 10:00 |
| jaska | which is why i am terminally angry at nokia | 10:00 |
| Macer | lol | 10:00 |
| psycho_oreos | because of that? lol | 10:00 |
| Macer | omg that was ghetto | 10:00 |
| Macer | i changed the owner of /dev/fuse to user | 10:01 |
| jaska | psycho: no, that and because i cant buy n950s :| | 10:01 |
| Macer | and it worked | 10:01 |
| Macer | lol! i feel ashamed | 10:01 |
| psycho_oreos | jaska, ahh yes that I completely agree.. rumour mills are reporting there's 1000s of N950 probably still lying in various warehouses around the world unused and unloved. Then there's rumours of heaps of N950 in nokia offices | 10:01 |
| Macer | doesnt the n900 have "1GB" | 10:02 |
| Macer | :) | 10:02 |
| Macer | with nand swapping | 10:02 |
| jaska | 768mb of swap does not count | 10:02 |
| Macer | haha | 10:02 |
| Macer | agreed | 10:02 |
| psycho_oreos | Macer, 256MB RAM + 768MB Swap | 10:02 |
| Macer | yah. hence the " | 10:02 |
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| Macer | psycho_oreos: thanks. sshfs works | 10:02 |
| Macer | i did it ghetto style | 10:02 |
| Macer | but it works | 10:02 |
| jaska | wouldnt have changing the group on the device node to users and giving g+rw have worked? | 10:03 |
| psycho_oreos | Macer, glad it did | 10:03 |
| psycho_oreos | jaska, doubt it, user isn't in the group of root | 10:03 |
| jaska | psycho: i meant changing the group of the device node to something user is part of. | 10:04 |
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| jonwil | why not just do it the simple way with chmod a+rw /blah | 10:05 |
| jonwil | bah, run out of things to do/clone/reverse engineer that are actually doable :( | 10:06 |
| psycho_oreos | jaska, ahh, but that's more or less similar to what Macer did anyway | 10:06 |
| psycho_oreos | isn't it chmod o+rw? *shrugs* I prefer octal :D | 10:06 |
| Macer | heh | 10:07 |
| Macer | my way was horrible | 10:07 |
| Macer | fuse shou.d have created a grp and added user to it | 10:07 |
| Macer | should | 10:07 |
| Macer | this is great tho. awesome using file manager to xfer across my wifi | 10:07 |
| Macer | wish file managr simply supported smb | 10:08 |
| Macer | :-/ | 10:08 |
| psycho_oreos | it sort of does I think | 10:08 |
| psycho_oreos | there's cifs support via extras-devel iinm | 10:08 |
| psycho_oreos | maybe even kp might have it *shrugs* | 10:08 |
| jonwil | osso-systemui-tklock is too hard to clone, as are the browser ui bits, the connectivity widgets, and everything else worth cloning :( | 10:09 |
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| Macer | jonwil: welcome to where maemo failed | 10:18 |
| Macer | "open" | 10:18 |
| Macer | wait... | 10:18 |
| Macer | * open | 10:18 |
| Macer | * 30% open hardware 80% open software | 10:19 |
| Macer | you would think there would be a rating system like that | 10:19 |
| Macer | lol | 10:19 |
| Macer | isnt there some "open committee" ? | 10:20 |
| psycho_oreos | non-existent by now I bet :) | 10:20 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | wow | 10:20 |
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| LaoLang_cool_ | Has nokia stopped produce more n950? | 10:21 |
| psycho_oreos | they've stopped it ages ago, it was meant to be for the public I bet before Flop came around | 10:21 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | The following packages have been kept back: | 10:22 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | libsdl-mixer1.2 | 10:22 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | Is it danger to upgrade it? | 10:22 |
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| psycho_oreos | what are you doing exactly? | 10:23 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: apt-get upgrade | 10:23 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | A question, I'm tring to use n900 to ssh my pc, but my pc user name contains a space, how to ssh? | 10:24 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, I would personally advise against that.. even dist-upgrade | 10:24 |
| psycho_oreos | you SSH via its IP address | 10:24 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: how to upgrade recommended? use app manager? | 10:25 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: ssh ip@ip? | 10:25 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, don't upgrade by hand, if there's an update for OTA stuff (like what nokia used to do) then use apt-get.. otherwise don't | 10:25 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, ssh user@IP | 10:26 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: but user is a string contains a space, say, "my user" | 10:26 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: don't upgrade by hand, then by what? | 10:26 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | ssh my user@ip is wrong I guess | 10:27 |
| psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, linux or unix rather doesn't support usernames with spaces | 10:27 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: I'm on windows... | 10:27 |
| psycho_oreos | its probably got underscore (_) | 10:27 |
| psycho_oreos | try enclosing it in quotes | 10:27 |
| psycho_oreos | maybe something like ssh "user@IP" | 10:28 |
| psycho_oreos | or ssh "user"@IP | 10:28 |
| Macer | lol | 10:30 |
| LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: "user"@ip works :) | 10:30 |
| Macer | magread? | 10:30 |
| Macer | is that for on the go cc theft? | 10:30 |
| Macer | :) sir.. you dropped your wallet! after reading all the cards | 10:30 |
| Macer | does maemo jabber support jabber channels? | 10:32 |
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| petteri | on n900 it does | 10:36 |
| Macer | does it? | 10:37 |
| Macer | i should try it | 10:37 |
| Macer | i should make a jabber server heh | 10:37 |
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| Macer | no google+ clients for maemo? | 10:40 |
| MohammadAG | no | 10:43 |
| Macer | open media player? :) | 10:43 |
| Macer | MohammadAG: that kind of sucks | 10:43 |
| Macer | guess i will see how well it runs in the browser | 10:44 |
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| Macer | does cssu have a hotspot sompatible kernel? | 10:58 |
| Macer | damn the maemo vkb is horrible | 11:01 |
| Macer | testing | 11:02 |
| MohammadAG | CSSU doesn't ship a kernel | 11:02 |
| MohammadAG | meego's kb is awesome | 11:02 |
| Macer | is there a meego kb for maemo? | 11:02 |
| Macer | :) | 11:02 |
| MohammadAG | yes, but only for qt-components i think | 11:02 |
| MohammadAG | malit | 11:02 |
| Macer | it has to be awesome. there is no qwerty | 11:02 |
| Macer | oh | 11:02 |
| Macer | :( | 11:03 |
| Macer | no qwerty for n9 | 11:03 |
| Macer | and not enough n950s to allow the vkb to suck | 11:03 |
| Macer | ok. i am installing like 100 pkgs :) best to charge this thing | 11:03 |
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| Macer | http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/u-s-cellular-rejected-apple-and-the-iphone-4s/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews | 11:19 |
| Macer | you tell em us cellular! | 11:19 |
| Macer | haha | 11:19 |
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| Macer | i wonder if i could turn my n810 into a server :) | 13:02 |
| Macer | i would have to install gentoo or something on it tho | 13:02 |
| Macer | :-/ or is there a straight debian distro for it? | 13:02 |
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| * Macer has to do some research..i remember luke-jr going out of his way to run gentoo on it | 13:06 | |
| Macer | maybe there is debian for it :) that would be nice... i want to use my n810 as a low powered server heh | 13:06 |
| Macer | with its 128MB of ram | 13:06 |
| Macer | and 400MHz cpu | 13:06 |
| Macer | RAW... POWER | 13:06 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | ive run gentoo on a P2 350 before. | 13:10 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i think i had more than 128MB though. | 13:10 |
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| Macer | 128MB is good enough for most things | 13:11 |
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| Macer | i just want to run bind and httpd on it .. irssi.. stuff like that | 13:11 |
| Macer | low powered stuff ... only a handful of users | 13:11 |
| HRH_H_Crab | the machine this irc client is running on has 28MB | 13:11 |
| Macer | i wonder how well it can do it | 13:11 |
| HRH_H_Crab | linksys nslu2 | 13:11 |
| Macer | haha | 13:11 |
| Macer | nice! | 13:11 |
| Macer | well i have to find out information on how to install a full linux distro on the n810 | 13:12 |
| HRH_H_Crab | 211 days uptime | 13:12 |
| Macer | heh.. the n810 has its own ups ;) | 13:12 |
| Macer | that lasts a very long time.. although i'm sure the battery is drained faster when dealing with a non-maemo distro | 13:12 |
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| Macer | because of bme problems that are always lingering | 13:12 |
| Macer | let me look it up | 13:13 |
| HRH_H_Crab | well all you need to do is figure out some way to shut itself down cleanly when it figures out the mains has gone... | 13:13 |
| ShadowJK | I wouldn't call it "bme problem" :P | 13:13 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: heh.. isn't that where the meego people were having a ton of problems | 13:14 |
| Macer | as well as with mer | 13:14 |
| Macer | and anything else that ran on the n810 | 13:14 |
| Macer | n900 too i thought | 13:14 |
| Macer | i need a damn minisd adapter... i don't have one lying around | 13:15 |
| Macer | ugh! | 13:15 |
| ShadowJK | it doesn't affect power consumption though | 13:15 |
| Macer | maybe it was cpu throttling that was the issue | 13:15 |
| Macer | the cpu always ran full speed | 13:15 |
| Macer | when not running maemo? | 13:15 |
| ShadowJK | it's all about wakeups | 13:16 |
| ShadowJK | under Maemo the cpu is stopped most of the time :P | 13:16 |
| Macer | heh | 13:17 |
| Macer | omg. i have every sd adapter except micro to mini | 13:17 |
| Macer | why couldn't nokia just use a microsd slot for the n810?! | 13:17 |
| Macer | oh wait... it has 2GB internal doesn't it? hm.. that might be too small | 13:17 |
| ShadowJK | it didn't exist yet | 13:18 |
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| Macer | really? | 13:19 |
| Macer | wth | 13:19 |
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| Macer | well.. my mistake :) | 13:19 |
| Macer | i will order the adapter when i get a 32GB for my transformer | 13:19 |
| Macer | then i can move the 16GB i have in it to my N900 and the 8GB from there to the N810 for debian | 13:20 |
| Macer | it is possible to intall debian onto the n810 right? | 13:20 |
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| ShadowJK | for various definitions of "possible" | 13:22 |
| Macer | bare metal install | 13:22 |
| Macer | using bootmenu to start it | 13:22 |
| Macer | and having all the necessary hardware for the server to work.. which i would guess would be the screen and keyboard | 13:23 |
| Macer | and wifi | 13:23 |
| Macer | a small server is what i'm aiming for | 13:23 |
| Macer | X is unnecessary... console is | 13:23 |
| Macer | what makes it so great is if it does have problems i can just flip it open and use the screen and keyboard to find out why | 13:24 |
| Macer | and i would also like the screen to be able to turn off :) | 13:24 |
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| Hurrian | hmm, does the N900 need 15Kohm resistor for USB host mode? | 13:34 |
| Hurrian | i hackjobbed a USB AF-AF adaptor | 13:34 |
| Sicelo | no | 13:35 |
| Hurrian | wait, lemme take a pic of my hackjob | 13:36 |
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| Sicelo | if u diy the f-f adapter.. make sure it does correct crossing of the connections.. someone here bought one that didn't, and obviously wouldnt work | 13:37 |
| Hurrian | any diagrams? | 13:38 |
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| Hurrian | i connected GND to GND, D+ to D+, D- to D- and VCC to VCC. | 13:38 |
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| Hurrian | hmm, i might have shorted something, but my usb hub works just fine | 13:40 |
| Hurrian | i dont have a multimeter on me right now, so i can't check | 13:40 |
| Hurrian | http://goput.it/glm.jpg | 13:40 |
| Hurrian | yes the soldering is horrible, yes i used a boxcutter, yes i cut up an ethernet cable to do it | 13:41 |
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| * jonwil is now knee deep in the "conversations" applet trying to figure out as much of the "secret things" that it does as possible | 13:45 | |
| neal | jonwil: What's your long-term goal with respect to the reverse engineering that you are doing? | 13:46 |
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| jonwil | multiple things, some of it is to give app developers more options and more things they can use in their apps | 13:47 |
| jonwil | some of it is to create things the CSSU can play with and use | 13:47 |
| neal | fair enough | 13:48 |
| jonwil | The messaging ui bit is to give anyone who might produce a replacement the info they need to make it do some of the important bits | 13:50 |
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| neal | don't you think it would be better to use community developped APIs rather than Nokia-no-longer-supported APIs? | 13:52 |
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| jonwil | except that for many of these things there IS no viable community developed API | 13:53 |
| jonwil | e.g. if you want to embed the web browser widget, you can either write your own widget embedding (takes time) or just embed a tablet-browser-view widget | 13:54 |
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| jonwil | and get all the hard parts (scroll, zoom and some others) done for you | 13:54 |
| neal | And WebKit doesn't have its own API for that type of thing? | 13:55 |
| jonwil | Webkit does but thats if you want webkit | 13:55 |
| jonwil | You can embed a QT Webkit widget if you want | 13:55 |
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| jonwil | but if you want Gecko, tablet-browser-view is the easy option | 13:55 |
| neal | What I mean is: wouldn't it be better to replace the proprietary bits with open bits that are maintained (even if not yet integrated into Maemo) | 13:56 |
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| jonwil | If you were to replace the proprietary browser bits you would need to also replace the conversations app (which embeds a browser widget), the nokia maps app, the "getting started" app | 13:57 |
| jonwil | plus the flash plugin | 13:57 |
| neal | yes, that would be great :) | 13:57 |
| jonwil | its hard | 13:57 |
| neal | true | 13:57 |
| neal | but it seems more sustainable | 13:58 |
| neal | especially given that maemo is abandonned | 13:58 |
| jonwil | There are already open browsers for Maemo if you want them | 13:58 |
| jonwil | including Firefox mobile (aka Fennec) | 13:58 |
| jonwil | and I think at least one Webkit based option | 13:58 |
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| jonwil | but you dont get flash | 13:58 |
| jonwil | or a bunch of other important things | 13:59 |
| neal | true | 13:59 |
| neal | although flash never worked for me on the built in browser when I needed it | 13:59 |
| Hurrian | ahahaha, fennec on maemo | 13:59 |
| jonwil | If you think you can produce an open source flash plugin for Maemo, feel free to try. | 13:59 |
| Hurrian | it became pretty clear later on that they're not targeting maemo itself | 13:59 |
| neal | I don't use flash :) | 14:00 |
| Hurrian | i really don't care for flash on mobile - after using ONLY a tab 8.9 for a few days, i learned that you don't miss much | 14:00 |
| jonwil | I think an open source flash plugin for embedded linux would be great, especially if it can "lie" to all those flash websites like Hulu that refuse to work on mobile versions of Flash | 14:00 |
| jonwil | but hey, I dont know anywhere near enough about Flash to try such a thing | 14:00 |
| Hurrian | i don't play games, youtube has device clients everywhere, and no more flash ads, just gif/jpg ads | 14:01 |
| Hurrian | jonwil: the desktop flash player is barely even worth using | 14:01 |
| Hurrian | *desktop open source | 14:01 |
| jonwil | yeah I know open source flash players suck unfortunatly | 14:02 |
| jonwil | I am surprised we havent seen more effort into such things | 14:02 |
| Macer | flash sucks | 14:03 |
| jonwil | yes | 14:03 |
| Macer | apple says so | 14:03 |
| Macer | :) | 14:03 |
| jonwil | but as long as web sites like YouTube keep using it, I have to keep using it | 14:03 |
| Macer | yeah | 14:03 |
| jonwil | What pisses me off are "web" developers who think designing the entire site in Flash is a good idea. | 14:03 |
| Macer | but honestly.. it does suck | 14:03 |
| jonwil | Flash as a video player is ok. | 14:03 |
| jonwil | Flash for an interactive game is also ok. | 14:03 |
| Macer | there are better options | 14:03 |
| Hurrian | ok for the desktop, deffo not for mobile | 14:04 |
| Macer | but if there is no need to change people wont change | 14:04 |
| jonwil | Name a better option that runs on all the common browsers in use | 14:04 |
| jonwil | Including Internet Explorer 6.0 | 14:04 |
| Hurrian | wait, lemme rethink that | 14:04 |
| Macer | uhm......... | 14:04 |
| Hurrian | it depends really | 14:04 |
| Macer | silverlight? | 14:04 |
| jonwil | Silverlight is passable but its not cross platform | 14:04 |
| Hurrian | on mobile, you can pipe video stream and let the device software handle how to play it | 14:05 |
| Hurrian | sw/hw accel, softsubs support, etc. | 14:05 |
| Macer | that would require muxing | 14:05 |
| Hurrian | on mobile + flash, only flash needs to be optimized | 14:05 |
| Macer | which is not practical on a mob device | 14:05 |
| Macer | nor practical for the server to mux | 14:06 |
| jonwil | These days its not that hard to create a single H.264 video file that will play with the Flash plugin and through browser support on Android or on iOS | 14:06 |
| Macer | the overhead would be too high | 14:06 |
| Macer | ios wont do it | 14:06 |
| Macer | apple says no | 14:06 |
| Macer | :) | 14:06 |
| jonwil | iOS wont do flash | 14:06 |
| Macer | unfortunately flash has become the commercial standard | 14:07 |
| jonwil | If it doesn't do H.264 video in a web page, that's an epic fail for Apple given that it has nice fast hardware playback of such video clips and given that Apple has been pushing HTML5 so much | 14:07 |
| Hurrian | the flash client is unresonably buggy | 14:07 |
| Macer | adobe has done a fine job of promoting it as well | 14:07 |
| Hurrian | the only problem with flash is that it's buggy. | 14:08 |
| Hurrian | otherwise, it does everything it set out to do: multimedia content delivery | 14:08 |
| Hurrian | AS3 is a pain to learn though | 14:08 |
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| jonwil | btw, I recon the award for the worst ever use of Flash has to go to a PC game title that used a custom file format based on Flash for the game UI | 14:09 |
| Hurrian | jonwil, GTA4? | 14:09 |
| jonwil | nope, Command & Conquer 3 | 14:09 |
| jonwil | and some other games on related engines | 14:10 |
| jonwil | Its not flash although the files start out as flash files and then get converted through some (unfortunatly not released to the public) tools | 14:10 |
| jonwil | My limited knowledge of Flash internals comes from reverse engineering this nightmare of a format | 14:10 |
| Hurrian | i still think the worst use of flash was on banner ads | 14:11 |
| jonwil | yeah | 14:12 |
| jonwil | Thats why I run Adblock on this desktop PC | 14:12 |
| neal | Does anyone have time to review my Woodchuck packages so they can go into extras? | 14:12 |
| Hurrian | i mean, if you needed a hover effect, was it so hard to use an iframe of fixed size, then do .shittybannerad:hover{ background: url( | 14:12 |
| Hurrian | jonwil, the only device that doesn't run adblock is my android tablet | 14:13 |
| Hurrian | because i am opposed to the idea of blocking via hosts files | 14:13 |
| Hurrian | that's simply stupid | 14:13 |
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| Macer | hahaha | 14:13 |
| neal | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/murmeltier/0.4~20111102-7/ | 14:13 |
| neal | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pywoodchuck/0.4~20111102-7/ | 14:14 |
| neal | those are the two most important, but there are a few others :/ | 14:14 |
| jonwil | I have no idea if my Gentoo box runs adblock or not (and if so which browsers it runs) but I dont use it to connect to the internet | 14:14 |
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| Hurrian | you don't connect a gentoo box to the internet? | 14:14 |
| jonwil | well to browser the web that is | 14:14 |
| Hurrian | ah | 14:14 |
| jonwil | obviously I use emerge etc | 14:15 |
| jonwil | I use the windows PC for web browsing as a rule | 14:15 |
| jonwil | unless I am using gentoo so I can copy text from a web page or something | 14:15 |
| Hurrian | i was gonna say 'use debian' if you leave it off the grid ;) | 14:15 |
| jonwil | I picked Gentoo because the "build stuff yourself" is fun :P | 14:15 |
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| jonwil | well it isn't so fun when its taking the best part of 2 hours to emerge a large package like GCC or QT or KDE | 14:16 |
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| Hurrian | i was using gentoo until i lost track of that cflags etc i'd set | 14:16 |
| Hurrian | so i cleaned house, and started using arch | 14:16 |
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| Hurrian | yes, the defaults are insecure | 14:16 |
| jonwil | going back to flash, I think RMS said that Flash is one of the most important "missing pieces" of open source software. | 14:17 |
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| Hurrian | but then, why? | 14:17 |
| Hurrian | what on the internet is missing if you don't have it? | 14:17 |
| Hurrian | something more important would be open source mobile drivers | 14:18 |
| Hurrian | (GPU, etc) | 14:18 |
| jonwil | yeah I would rank "open drivers for the PowerVR GPUs" as the #1 thing the mobile ecosystem is missing | 14:18 |
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| Hurrian | most video sites nowadays have html5 options, and if you have enough cpu for flash, chances are you have enough cpu cycles for html5 video | 14:19 |
| jonwil | unfortunatly its just not possible to buy an ARM SoC with an open GPU in it | 14:19 |
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| Hurrian | jonwil, yeah, unfortunately, device manufacturers don't like to release code | 14:19 |
| Hurrian | i mean, you can't upgrade anything so they just expect you to buy new device if you want newer software | 14:20 |
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| jonwil | as for why you need Flash, I cant find one off the top of my head but I see sites all the time that would be less usable without Flash | 14:22 |
| Hurrian | for a regular user: facebook games, for one | 14:23 |
| jonwil | either way, Flash is here to say and rather than shunning it and hoping it goes away, trying to create an open source clone of the thing is the better option | 14:23 |
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| jonwil | hence GNU Gnash | 14:25 |
| Hurrian | ...and lightspark | 14:26 |
| jonwil | I wish lightspark and Gnash and all the other free flash efforts would unify under a single effort | 14:28 |
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| villager | I heard that Apple was working to make Flash go away a while ago, what happened with that? | 14:43 |
| jonwil | It helped a little | 14:44 |
| jonwil | but a lot of sites just kept the Flash and wrote an iOS specific app for iOS | 14:44 |
| jonwil | rather than redo their site | 14:44 |
| villager | I see | 14:45 |
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| Macer | damn | 14:47 |
| Macer | maemo needs working google contacts integration | 14:47 |
| ZogG | Macer there is some python app afaik | 14:49 |
| Macer | i think i tried that | 14:50 |
| Macer | it didnt work well | 14:50 |
| Macer | at least google voice integration downloads the gvoice numbers | 14:51 |
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| merlin1991 | back to flash games, the fsckd cryengine uses flash for game ui | 15:00 |
| merlin1991 | pita to edit | 15:00 |
| merlin1991 | besides also beeing strictly directx that is the 2nd most disturbing fact about it | 15:00 |
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| ZogG | ruskie, ping | 15:03 |
| ruskie | *KLANG* | 15:03 |
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| ZogG | ruskie sup | 15:10 |
| ZogG | ruskie, i'll pm you | 15:10 |
| ZogG | ? | 15:10 |
| ZogG | may i? | 15:11 |
| ruskie | that's what pms are for | 15:11 |
| ruskie | if I don't want to get them I'll put all PMs on ignore ;) | 15:11 |
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| ruskie | ~aegis | 15:24 |
| infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif | 15:24 |
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| slonopotamus | hmm... my n800 runs 3.1 kernel | 15:28 |
| ZogG | slonopotamus, privet medved =() | 15:29 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, ping | 15:29 |
| slonopotamus | ZogG: who is on duty today? | 15:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: pong | 15:30 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer i had a qurestion but it doesn't matter i think | 15:33 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, how are you? | 15:33 |
| ZogG | slonopotamus duty? | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: american or german answer? | 15:34 |
| ZogG | jewish =) | 15:34 |
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| ZogG | i would uderstand german if you say you feel shitty | 15:35 |
| ZogG | coz it's only one | 15:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, you got the german answer already, so here's the american one: great! | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | jewish I'm mostly lost, maybe: Happy to be alive! | 15:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or let me try better: I felt fine until you pinged me and told me "I got an unimportant question: how are you?" - now I ponder if I'm unimportant. (Dunno, I'm probably completely failing on jiddish humor) | 15:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | unrelated comment: tmo -> #post1116491 just WTF for > 1 mio posts on that forum :-o | 15:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (don't bother about that particular post, it's just an example where I noticed it) | 16:02 |
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| fredep | Is there anyway to stream YouTube videos as just audio through my phone? At night I would like to listen to music, playlists, however, Adobe Flash is not very keen towards my little N900 Maemo powered device. | 16:14 |
| fredep | I was wondering if there was anyway, for me to easily implement it in the existing media player or so, or have a application / desktop widget that comes close to it. | 16:14 |
| fredep | (one that actually works) | 16:15 |
| *** muellisoft is now known as Muelli | 16:15 | |
| fredep | Or shall I have to implement it myself? | 16:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Not easily. | 16:17 |
| fredep | And if I would implement it myself, would anyone here consider there to be any demand for such an application? | 16:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd like it. | 16:17 |
| fredep | A backend that would implement YouTube video / audio streaming to the Maemo media player. | 16:17 |
| SpeedEvil | It works best if you can run it on a seperate server. | 16:17 |
| fredep | I would consider developing it myself, but only, if there would be a demand for it. | 16:17 |
| SpeedEvil | The ideal way would be something that detected a flash stream, jumped in the way of the negotiation, proxying this negotiation to a server. | 16:18 |
| fredep | I am looking for something that would stick to the ease and convenience of the existing media player, yet, have the possibility of viewing or listening to YouTube content through it, in the most optimal possible way. | 16:18 |
| SpeedEvil | The server would then negotiate with the site, and do the transcoding, providing you with an audio only stream that gets fed into the browser. | 16:18 |
| fredep | SpeedEvil, I would like to keep it without a server, if I would turn this into a public application. | 16:18 |
| fredep | Just playing the audio, and hiding the video part, dirty hacky way, until Google implements ogg, is something I would stick to. | 16:19 |
| fredep | It is dirty, it is hacky, but it works, and seems to be the only option. | 16:19 |
| SpeedEvil | I've not found a nice player that will play all flash streams well. | 16:19 |
| fredep | Hm. | 16:19 |
| SpeedEvil | ffplay is sort-of-the-least-bad. | 16:19 |
| fredep | Then I shall make it a quest to develop YouTube integration into the Maemo media player (I like things that integrate seamlessly into the existing Maemo applications). | 16:20 |
| ShadowJK | the media player isn't modifiable :P | 16:20 |
| fredep | And I shall see to what extend, I will consider your server suggestion. | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | That would be awesome. | 16:20 |
| fredep | I simply do not have the money to make such a server available. | 16:20 |
| * ShadowJK is having issues viewing youtube even on desktop now | 16:21 | |
| ShadowJK | damn insolvable captchas | 16:21 |
| fredep | If I could just set a YouTube playlist in the Maemo media player, and be able to click that play button on the desktop widget, and have it run through, that would be very neat. | 16:22 |
| fredep | Play, and close my eyes, and sleep. | 16:22 |
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| ShadowJK | If you go to m.youtube.com and tap a video, it actually opens in the media player | 16:22 |
| fredep | At the moment I try to use browser mode, but, whenever my N900 goes into inactive / sleep mode, the music stops playing as it tries to load the next video, until I open my N900, then it continues. | 16:22 |
| ShadowJK | but youtube only serves low quality stuff on m. | 16:22 |
| fredep | The low quality thing is good as far as I am concerned. | 16:23 |
| fredep | high quality flash stuff will lag the N900. | 16:23 |
| fredep | Considering how proprietary and closed source it is. | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | fredep: Attach charging cable, install simple-brightness-widget, and turn 'keep display on' on. | 16:23 |
| ShadowJK | and by low quality I mean 176x144 video and 32kbit/s audio ;p | 16:23 |
| ShadowJK | also disable "javascript pausing" in browser | 16:23 |
| fredep | What does that option even do? | 16:23 |
| fredep | It is set to 30 seconds, I left it like that because I have no idea what it actually does | 16:24 |
| ShadowJK | it stops javascript when display is off | 16:24 |
| fredep | Oh... | 16:24 |
| ShadowJK | So that if you leave a site open it doesn't suck your battery empty. | 16:24 |
| fredep | Hm still, I am considering a more convenient solution. | 16:24 |
| fredep | Battery and all is not a problem. | 16:24 |
| fredep | It is always plugged in when I am asleep. | 16:24 |
| fredep | Next to my bed. | 16:24 |
| fredep | Just need relaxing music as I fall asleep, and during sleep. | 16:25 |
| SpeedEvil | It would be neat from a battery POV - youtube uses lots of power | 16:25 |
| fredep | Well regardless, the implementation I have in mind would still just grab the Flash content and deal with it in a certain way. | 16:25 |
| fredep | And I think the main point of process consumption, is that Flash content. | 16:25 |
| fredep | Not the actual website, right? | 16:25 |
| fredep | Or has YouTube began to provide some sort of ogg access / API / streaming? | 16:26 |
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| ShadowJK | lol | 16:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what's status of youtube on iPhone now? | 16:27 |
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| ShadowJK | youtube actively fights app developers :) | 16:27 |
| fredep | Uh, did Apple not write an open letter about what they think about Adobe's Flash platform? | 16:27 |
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| fredep | http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why I asked | 16:27 |
| fredep | Steve Jobs, "New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind.". | 16:28 |
| fredep | I hope they continue to fight against Flash. | 16:28 |
| ShadowJK | iphone doesn't and has never had flash. It has used an app for youtube | 16:28 |
| fredep | And hopefully, this will convince Google to focus on Theora for YouTube. | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh | 16:28 |
| fredep | As they are very open minded using free things on other platforms (XMPP with Google Chat, etc.). | 16:28 |
| ShadowJK | If theora wasn't so damn bad.. and if google didn't already have that vp8 thing, whatever it was called | 16:28 |
| fredep | From what point of view would Theora be bad? | 16:29 |
| dzho | oddly enough, many entities seem able to make their websites useable on iOS devices. | 16:29 |
| fredep | So far, I have never really seen any trouble with it. | 16:29 |
| dzho | when I access them with microb, though, I get this guff about needing to have flash. | 16:29 |
| fredep | The freedom is there, and the compression does not seem that bad. | 16:29 |
| dzho | a ver fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu moment | 16:29 |
| dzho | s/ver/very/ | 16:29 |
| infobot | dzho meant: a very fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu moment | 16:29 |
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| dzho | botsnack | 16:30 |
| * dzho shrugs | 16:30 | |
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| * infobot shrugs too | 16:30 | |
| * fredep goes to check out Maemo development documentation for basic development concepts. | 16:30 | |
| fredep | Oh, Maemo SDK, even better. :3 | 16:31 |
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| fredep | Is the Maemo SDK entirely free? | 16:31 |
| fredep | It might even be included in my distribution's repositories if that would be the case. | 16:32 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 16:32 |
| fredep | Well, that is just, swell. | 16:32 |
| SpeedEvil | There are closed binaries from nokia in it. | 16:32 |
| ShadowJK | I guess if you don't agree to the EULA you don't get the binaries? | 16:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, exactly | 16:33 |
| dzho | fredep: I know how you feel. | 16:33 |
| fredep | Yeah, SpeedEvil as soon as my eyes crossed that "Nokia Binaries" part I started to doubt how free the SDK would be. | 16:33 |
| fredep | Which made me quickly question it in here. | 16:33 |
| ShadowJK | i don't think you actually need any of them | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I remember some weird stuff with placing an individual token/cert whatever somewhere in SB to get access to those binaries via apt-get | 16:34 |
| ShadowJK | mostly for the "emulator" part I'd think? | 16:34 |
| fredep | Well, regardless, I do not think there is a free Maemo SDK alternative, is there? It would be nice if I could just aptitude install thatmaemofreeshit on my distribution. | 16:34 |
| fredep | I use Trisquel (trisquel.info), which is basically Ubuntu with all the non-free shit thrown out. | 16:34 |
| dzho | fredep: it remains a dream, I think | 16:34 |
| fredep | Well, if those non-free things are not really a dependency, I do not see how hard it would be to repackage it, without them, and throw it on the web. | 16:35 |
| ShadowJK | ... | 16:35 |
| * SpeedEvil lols. | 16:35 | |
| ShadowJK | lol | 16:35 |
| dzho | famous last words "how hard could it be?" | 16:35 |
| ShadowJK | dude it's scratchbox, nothing is easy | 16:35 |
| fredep | I have no experience with Maemo development, although I am interested, so excuses for any ignorant statements. | 16:35 |
| fredep | At first sight. | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | du -hs /scratchbox -> 5.3G | 16:36 |
| fredep | But I am going to familiarise myself with the available documentation at maemo.org. | 16:36 |
| dzho | fredep: I think the most optimistic thing one could say about all this is that there remain huge opportunities :-) | 16:36 |
| fredep | It being free is not that much of a priority, at least if I can make the applications I build for it, available under a free license. | 16:36 |
| dzho | and that's how we get to the point of having many almost-free solutions | 16:36 |
| fredep | Then I am happy. | 16:36 |
| fredep | Also. | 16:37 |
| ShadowJK | fredep, so when they created the "SDK", they first kidnapped a linux guy, a windows guy, and a steve jobs clone. Then they put them in specially designed chairs that constantly measure their level of disgust, pain and fear. The SDK was then carefully designed to produce the strongest disgust,pain and fear sensations in all 3 test subjects. | 16:37 |
| ShadowJK | or well, scratchbox was | 16:37 |
| fredep | I read some post about somebody loving N9 / W7 on maemo.org, what the fuck was that about? | 16:37 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 16:37 |
| fredep | Why would anyone think I want to read shit about Windows Phone on maemo.org? | 16:37 |
| SpeedEvil | N9 is like n900 with all the ponies taken out. | 16:37 |
| fredep | Can anyone just post bullshit they like at the maemo.org news section? | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 16:38 |
| fredep | Where do I report for removal. >:3 | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | click the down-thumb. | 16:38 |
| ShadowJK | I think it's based on planet.maemo.org votes | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~tmo | 16:38 |
| infobot | hmm... tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or trolls, morons, oxes | 16:38 |
| fredep | Oh. | 16:38 |
| fredep | The WP7 entry is already gone. | 16:38 |
| ShadowJK | So it's like a collection of random people's RSS feeds | 16:38 |
| fredep | I see. | 16:38 |
| fredep | Hm. | 16:38 |
| vdv | in qtcreator, i create a new mobile app, but i'm unable to select maemo/fremantle as target, is that normal? in screenshot from the tutorial it's shown | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-11-05 14:59:55] <DocScrutinizer> unrelated comment: tmo -> #post1116491 just WTF for > 1 mio posts on that forum :-o | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | you bet you see *all* $random staements and noise/BS in >10^6 posts | 16:39 |
| fredep | I hope Maemo lives on for a long time, and Nokia should just release N900 blueprints considering they fuck up everything so other companies can continue with the N900 spirit if my N900 would ever die (hopefully, it will never die). | 16:39 |
| fredep | I do not like N9, WP7 nor MeeGo (MeeGo, only having see the visual interface, put me off at first sight). | 16:40 |
| dzho | may your usb port remain strong and true | 16:40 |
| ShadowJK | which visual interface | 16:40 |
| fredep | Is there a default way to take a screenshot of your Maemo environment? | 16:40 |
| ShadowJK | ctrl-shift-p, iirc | 16:40 |
| fredep | The general MeeGo interface. | 16:40 |
| ShadowJK | fredep, are you talking about N9? | 16:40 |
| fredep | N9, WP7 device, yes. | 16:41 |
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| fredep | But that is no MeeGo. | 16:41 |
| fredep | I am not sure if anything is MeeGo to be honest. | 16:41 |
| psycho_oreos | N9 is not a WP7 device | 16:41 |
| fredep | With what has happened. | 16:41 |
| fredep | It is not? | 16:41 |
| ShadowJK | N9 is more like Maemo 6 Harmattan.. which marketing calls MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan... which is different from "real" MeeGo.. | 16:41 |
| psycho_oreos | and if its a WP7 device, you'd see the infamous windows logo on the bottom of the screen | 16:42 |
| fredep | I only really read the news about what Nokia is doing, I never really got down to what actually happens behind the scenes regarding Maemo, or MeeGo, I just skimmed through little bits, of guides being available to MeeGo your N900, and all. | 16:42 |
| fredep | I see. | 16:42 |
| fredep | But one thing I do know is, I love my N900, I love Maemo, and if my N900 would die, I can only hope I could get it somewhere new (dislike second hand). | 16:43 |
| fredep | N900 spoiled me rotten. | 16:43 |
| * ShadowJK has two N900, in case the infamous USB port decides to eject itself, or in case the modem stops working | 16:43 | |
| fredep | That actually is a bright idea. | 16:43 |
| * psycho_oreos has three | 16:43 | |
| fredep | Buying a few and stocking them on the attic. :x | 16:43 |
| ShadowJK | My N900 #1 died the modem death | 16:44 |
| ShadowJK | aka "Crossed out SIM icon" death | 16:44 |
| fredep | I have had my N900 since 2009 I believe, still working fine to date. | 16:44 |
| fredep | With the exception of the recharger cable breaking down. | 16:44 |
| fredep | And having lost the touch pen. :L | 16:44 |
| fredep | It works fine. x3 | 16:44 |
| psycho_oreos | ShadowJK, I suppose you could have used that N900 as just a pure internet tablet, like 770, N8x0 series | 16:45 |
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| fredep | ShadowJK, how did that even happen, you are scaring me with these stories. =( | 16:45 |
| fredep | What did you do to get broken SIM slot? | 16:45 |
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| * fredep hugs his N900 and whispers, "do not worry, it is all just mythological, do not listen to him" | 16:46 | |
| ShadowJK | It's not the sim slot breaking, it's probably the modem desoldering itself or something like that | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | or silicon rot | 16:46 |
| fredep | Did you overclock it or do anything special? | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | nope | 16:46 |
| fredep | Hm, neat, did not know about the screenshot taking feature. | 16:47 |
| fredep | Should take some screenshots in a bit when I got my desktop ready. :3 | 16:47 |
| psycho_oreos | I thought changing the SIM card numerous times could have affected the SIM slot | 16:47 |
| ShadowJK | It's not a problem with the sim slot | 16:47 |
| fredep | Does anyone know where you can still buy new N900 devices. | 16:47 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh its the actual modem | 16:47 |
| fredep | I really feel like getting another one just in-case. | 16:48 |
| fredep | Or two... | 16:48 |
| ShadowJK | fredep, they're not made anymore | 16:48 |
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| fredep | Yeah, but certain stores might still have some on stock. | 16:48 |
| ShadowJK | i think Macer ordered one from hongkong on ebay | 16:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Fairly unlikely. | 16:48 |
| psycho_oreos | even if they do they may not be available locally or have their own websites | 16:48 |
| fredep | Or is the Nokia N9 not that bad? | 16:48 |
| ShadowJK | no it's bad | 16:48 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 16:48 |
| SpeedEvil | It's been ~6mo since they stopped selling it at all. | 16:48 |
| fredep | Amazon has some new ones available. | 16:49 |
| fredep | (US Amazon) | 16:49 |
| * fredep checks Amazon UK | 16:49 | |
| ShadowJK | N9 has no keyboard, has no bluetooth keyboard support, and it has the security nazi framework to prevent you from installing stuff and modifying stuff :D | 16:49 |
| fredep | Oh wow. | 16:49 |
| fredep | Yeah, you convinced me at the "has no keyboard" part. | 16:49 |
| psycho_oreos | if you'll excuse the lack of hardware keyboard, the no microSDHC slot and no interchangeable batteries. The N9 may just be slightly superior if you could somehow bypass aegis (maybe with running real MeeGo for instance) | 16:49 |
| fredep | One of the most important things to me is the keyboard. | 16:49 |
| fredep | The software turning out to be so lovely, was an extra. | 16:50 |
| ShadowJK | If aegis didn't exist I might consider buying N9, just to put in the drawer as backup for the day that both my N900 have died :/ | 16:50 |
| fredep | There are two new N900s available on Amazon. | 16:50 |
| fredep | Hm. | 16:50 |
| fredep | One store just launched, do not really trust. | 16:50 |
| fredep | Another store has 100% positive feedback from 18 entries. | 16:50 |
| ShadowJK | But really, right now N9 has too much "fuck you" attitude towards the consumer that I'm not at all interested | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | and who was the first to warn you all about "aegis is hell spawn"? | 16:51 |
| fredep | Does anyone else think, Nokia, really, really, fucked up, on such a significant scale, by ditching the N900? | 16:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | fredep: Nope. | 16:51 |
| fredep | Why not? | 16:51 |
| psycho_oreos | If N9 did have hardware keyboard, I wouldn't have hesitated in buying one. The rest of the issues I could sort of shrug it off.. but without hardware keyboard it pisses me off.. and no bluetooth keyboard support is pure fail | 16:51 |
| fredep | I think it is a godly device. | 16:51 |
| SpeedEvil | The fuckups started about 3 months into the n900s sales. | 16:51 |
| SpeedEvil | With the ovi store screwups. | 16:51 |
| fredep | Sure, it is a high priced device, but the money I spent on it, all worth it. | 16:51 |
| psycho_oreos | and that N900 was released late | 16:52 |
| fredep | Yeah, well, those are things that could have been prevented. | 16:52 |
| fredep | But dumping it, instead of fixing it,... | 16:52 |
| psycho_oreos | no hostmode out of the box by default | 16:52 |
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| fredep | Hm. | 16:52 |
| psycho_oreos | that's Flop for you | 16:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Elop wasn't the problem. | 16:52 |
| SpeedEvil | It went wrong well before Elop. | 16:53 |
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| psycho_oreos | Flop basically was hired and he killed maemo platform, killed symbian (almost). Then N950 was crippled and given free to selected developers whilst the rest gets N9. Cripples N9 and sells it in certain countries. Makes WP7 device that looks very similar to N9 | 16:54 |
| fredep | Hm. | 16:54 |
| psycho_oreos | nokia board of directors were smoking crack. They wouldn't give two shits anyway | 16:54 |
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| fredep | Well no matter how much they fucked up with N900 / Maemo, I still really love it to this day. | 16:54 |
| fredep | I really was a Samsung guy (liked the way their models looked), not really too fond of Nokia, but then the N900 came along, and I liked it a lot, the design, the keyboard, the software, and got it, regardless of the price tag. | 16:55 |
| Guest40473 | im just waiting for tizen/samsung to bring desktop linux back to phones. or meltemi. | 16:55 |
| fredep | So do you guys think it would be a good idea to buy one of the last available new N900s from Amazon? | 16:56 |
| Guest40473 | or ubuntu to magically get partners, like they didnt manage with tablets. | 16:56 |
| fredep | There is only one left from a reliable store on Amazon UK. | 16:56 |
| Guest40473 | fredep: i like mine, bought recently. | 16:56 |
| fredep | I do not give a shit about the 400 pounds price tag. | 16:56 |
| fredep | Well, I have an N900 too. | 16:56 |
| Guest40473 | it just baarely replaced my n810 | 16:56 |
| fredep | But, one day it might die... | 16:56 |
| fredep | I want it again. | 16:56 |
| fredep | I have had my N900 since 2009. | 16:56 |
| ShadowJK | though I guess the real attraction of having desktop linux on phone is that a) you can have all the apps you need, b) when the manufacturer abandons the device, it's not a 14-man-month task to get the browser back to compatibility with facebook again :P | 16:57 |
| fredep | And, I would be lost if it would die on me. | 16:57 |
| Guest40473 | im not sure it's *that* nice.. :P | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ShadowJK: what are the top screwups hw side on N900 design on your list, I mean what are the things Nokia shall fix on a N900i ? (please no major changes! So no "get multitouch" etc) | 16:57 |
| fredep | It iisssss. | 16:57 |
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| Guest40473 | i would have preferred the n900 hardware in an 810 form factor | 16:57 |
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| psycho_oreos | I wouldn't know if amazon sellers do sell N900 new or is it some sort of `technically new' term | 16:58 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, they could fix the USB. Clock battery. Figure out why the modem dies, or put in a new one. Refresh to latest omap3, gigabyte of memory. | 16:58 |
| psycho_oreos | or if there's just scammers | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: good list, thanks | 16:58 |
| psycho_oreos | s/there's/they're/ | 16:59 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: or if they're just scammers | 16:59 |
| Guest40473 | 'new' as in unopened maybe. | 17:00 |
| psycho_oreos | or unused, but the case was opened and resealed to make it look like new :þ | 17:00 |
| Guest40473 | or that. | 17:01 |
| psycho_oreos | or probably used once or twice before it was cleaned up and put back into the case, and resealed | 17:01 |
| Guest40473 | if n900 dies, i'll just go back to tablet+phone. | 17:02 |
| fredep | Has anyone ever considered purchasing the N900 schematics and rights off of Nokia? | 17:02 |
| fredep | Or has nobody ever gone that extreme? | 17:02 |
| Guest40473 | only get a nice new linux tab, instead of n810 | 17:02 |
| psycho_oreos | fredep, you can download a leaked copy of the schematics | 17:02 |
| fredep | No, no. | 17:03 |
| fredep | I am actually thinking, of legally, buying them, community improving them, and open it up for manufacturers to freely manufacture them. | 17:03 |
| ShadowJK | Something liek a gta04 for N900 would be interesting ;p | 17:03 |
| psycho_oreos | consider forking out millions, if not billions | 17:03 |
| fredep | Hm. | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | fredep: schematics are available. Buying the rights is sth nobody ever done I guess | 17:03 |
| fredep | Yeah, I considered that. | 17:03 |
| fredep | But I also considered, if somebody before me, thought about it, and gotten anywhere with that idea. | 17:04 |
| ShadowJK | N900 also has some nokia-only parts that a) are not made anymore b) they dont sell to third parties anyway | 17:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fredep: also you won't get BB5 modem that simply, esp in a range of 100 < N < 100.000 | 17:05 |
| fredep | If that would be possible, if somebody could pull it off, rebrand it, turn it both, hardwarematically and softwarematically, into a fully free device, for any manufacturer to develope, manfacture and distribute (under the license of sharing alike, maintain the freedom, that was given to you, in your derivative work), then that would be one wicked collaboration started right there. | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | or what ShadowJK said :-D | 17:05 |
| fredep | You do not need any of the hardware that it holds. | 17:06 |
| psycho_oreos | fredep, there were talks about that at numerous stages in both this chan and on the tmo threads. However nobody has done anything considering its not an easy job let alone finding a decent manufacturer which won't charge you an arm and a leg | 17:07 |
| fredep | If you could just obtain the rights and schematics, and open up a community collaboration to change, replace and improve the existing schematics, and open it up for manufacturers to freely manufacture it, that would do. | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | fredep: oh not? | 17:07 |
| fredep | Indeed. | 17:07 |
| Guest40473 | i dont think it would be worth it. n900 hardware is fairly limited. everything is licensed | 17:07 |
| fredep | I would not even envision being able to pull that off with simple email communications. | 17:07 |
| Guest40473 | contrast with freerunner neo | 17:07 |
| fredep | You would actually have to know some people within Nokia, and go down to Finland. | 17:07 |
| Guest40473 | can n900 run hostapd? | 17:07 |
| psycho_oreos | no | 17:07 |
| fredep | I had a Neo Freerunner once, did not like it, software and hardware, were inconvenient to use. | 17:08 |
| Guest40473 | but, it is a much more open platform | 17:08 |
| fredep | The thought about the freedom was nice, the usability, as a device to use daily, was lacking, and was not something that could be quickly turned over. | 17:08 |
| ShadowJK | Guest40473, most of the circuit board components can actually be purchased, except for the modem | 17:08 |
| Guest40473 | n900 was just a 'good enough' platform that received sponsorship and attention from someone in to make a buck | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | fredep: let developer of neo FR tell you it won't fly | 17:09 |
| fredep | What wont fly? | 17:09 |
| psycho_oreos | open N900 | 17:09 |
| fredep | My Neo FreeRunner could fly. | 17:09 |
| ThreeM | neo freerunner | 17:09 |
| fredep | Although it did not have a measurement application of how high it went like my N900. | 17:09 |
| fredep | :U | 17:09 |
| psycho_oreos | I'd hate to see what happens if you manage to not catch the device once it lands | 17:10 |
| fredep | xD | 17:10 |
| psycho_oreos | *smash* oh sh*t | 17:10 |
| psycho_oreos | :þ | 17:10 |
| fredep | To be honest I just giggled and moved on when I saw that application in the repository. | 17:10 |
| fredep | I thought it was some Nokia incentive to break N900's so more would be purchased. :V | 17:10 |
| fredep | I did not have any crazy urges to install that and throw my N900 up as high as I could. :3 | 17:11 |
| psycho_oreos | I think that program was curiously questioned and I think it was sort of an unanimous conclusion that it was mainly for those who do skydiving with their N900 | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | as you can see from my prev post (>>[2011-11-05 15:57:16] <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: ShadowJK: what are the top screwups hw side on N900 design<<) I'm pondering a different approach right ATM | 17:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | indeed N900fly can measure height of jumps as well | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | or how deep you jumped (by multiplying the value by 2) | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | won't work for skydivers though as on reaching steady speed there's no free-fall state anymore | 17:14 |
| Guest40473 | biggest hardware screwups. no usb-host mode, closed baseband, no driver support for wifi ap-mode, no electronic compass or gyroscopes. | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, thanks. next | 17:15 |
| psycho_oreos | Guest40473, no driver support for wifi ap-mode is not nokia's fault directly, its more of Ti's fault which was concluded by a few tmo members that its a firmware bug that prohibits AP mode | 17:15 |
| Guest40473 | ofono patches were nice, but not 18 mo later and still in a state no one can use. | 17:16 |
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| Guest40473 | that makes it Nokia's fault for going with that chip | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | hostmode: FIXED, baseband: WONTFIX, wifi: WONTFIX, compass and gyro... errr | 17:16 |
| psycho_oreos | Guest40473, wl1271 (on N950/N9) has AP mode but wl1251 (on N900) doesn't ironically. Ti never bothered to fix their shit.. just like that ACX1XX case with linux | 17:16 |
| Guest40473 | im not sure i can think of another hardware 'screwup' | 17:17 |
| Guest40473 | oh | 17:17 |
| Guest40473 | no 2mm nokia charging jack :P | 17:17 |
| Guest40473 | kickstand blows, n810 much better | 17:17 |
| psycho_oreos | in fact we should be a little more thankful that nokia at that point in time hired K. Valo to write up a linux driver support for wl1251, otherwise we'd probably be stuck with some proprietary Ti blob with even less features | 17:18 |
| Guest40473 | n810 generally had a superior feel in hand. the 3" formfactor was a mistake in n900 | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, that's not what I was asking at least | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm more about to wonder how many devices it needs to reach break even on ramping up manufacturing line again | 17:20 |
| flux | btw, are there QtQuick-able Qt binaries around for n810? | 17:20 |
| Macer | i guess i should be thankful there is a google voice plugin at all | 17:20 |
| Macer | but wow is it horrible :) | 17:21 |
| Macer | does it just poll for new txts? | 17:21 |
| Macer | and is there a way to disable the talking features? | 17:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer wishes konttori was around | 17:21 | |
| Macer | and only use it for txting? :) | 17:21 |
| Macer | gvoice is just as bad as a power whore as skype is on this n900 | 17:22 |
| Macer | it is totally murdering the battery | 17:22 |
| yigal | is anyone has anyone set up Monav http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74791 http://code.google.com/p/monav/ both client and daemon. I have a VPS that I'm thinking of using to preprocess certain maps as a daemon and of course use the client for routing but I was wondering if anyone had experience doing this? | 17:22 |
| Guest40473 | really? you mean theonering plugin? | 17:22 |
| Guest40473 | im not sure i've noticed any problems with it | 17:22 |
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| Guest40473 | i keep it in 'away' status constantly | 17:22 |
| Macer | does keeping it in "away" allow you to receive txts still while turning off the call features? | 17:23 |
| Macer | theonering plugin? :) | 17:23 |
| Guest40473 | no, but it saves battery life (per the instructions) | 17:23 |
| luke-jr | Macer: I repurposed my N810 to a GPS/Wifi mapper | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: this kind of IM apps with presence and whatnot always tend to cut thru your battery, just skype is the worst of all due to even abusing your device as a relay, by skype design | 17:24 |
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| Macer | Guest40473: instructions? | 17:24 |
| Macer | where are they? | 17:24 |
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| Macer | DocScrutinizer: gtalk seems to do rather well on the n900 | 17:27 |
| Macer | compared to gvoice | 17:27 |
| Macer | not to mention the way the gvoice plugin adds things to your contacts | 17:28 |
| Macer | if a contact has a phone number... gvoice adds "call and sms" options... and when you use the sms option... the person's number is only displayed and not their contact icon or name | 17:28 |
| Macer | unless you merge it | 17:28 |
| Macer | then you have "google voice IM" added to the contact | 17:28 |
| Macer | this seems rather redundant | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry can't comment, I use SIP and proper high quality GSM calls only, as voice is a premium service for me and I'm not interested in using shitty g* (also it starts with g* ;-P, like gmail, gconf, gnome...) | 17:29 |
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| neal | DocScrutinizer: haha | 17:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I basically can call via proper plain old telephone to any location on this earth for as little as 1ct/min, why should I be interested in using flaky inferior quality services | 17:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | on mobile I'm at ~10ct/min but then on mobile it's neigh impossible to get good quality via those "free" services like skype etc | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | so again, whyt's the use of that crap? | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's* | 17:33 |
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| ZogG | hey anyone knows program in C working with dbus, want to check code | 17:46 |
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| neal | ZogG: What do you want to do? | 17:48 |
| neal | ZogG: You could check Woodchuck: http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu/~neal/woodchuck/src/ | 17:48 |
| neal | ZogG: It does a lot with dbus | 17:48 |
| ZogG | neal all i need to send dbus signal from my app with data | 17:49 |
| ZogG | actually i want to display something on rds | 17:49 |
| ZogG | i would be glad if you can help me | 17:49 |
| neal | what are 'rds'? | 17:49 |
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| neal | http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu/~neal/woodchuck/src/branches/master/src/murmeltier.c.raw.html | 17:50 |
| ZogG | neal it's the radio display | 17:50 |
| neal | zogg: Look at around 415 | 17:50 |
| ZogG | i have more stupid question | 17:50 |
| ZogG | wait, i'll trying to find answer myself =) | 17:51 |
| ZogG | neal i'm compiling it with makefile | 17:52 |
| ZogG | 1st time i do it manually, or even truly i use one from other program my based on.. | 17:53 |
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| ZogG | all mentions i see of libs are in main.c with include blah blah blah | 17:54 |
| ZogG | when i add dbus it doesn't give me to compile | 17:54 |
| ZogG | found | 17:54 |
| ZogG | my mistake | 17:54 |
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| ZogG | neal around here? | 18:01 |
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| neal | ZogG: What do you mean? | 18:01 |
| ZogG | let me post it | 18:02 |
| ZogG | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/503341/ | 18:02 |
| ZogG | neal you see dbus part? | 18:03 |
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| neal | you're missing a space between: $(DBUS_LDFLAGS)$(OBJECTS) | 18:03 |
| ZogG | Package dbus was not found in the pkg-config search path. | 18:04 |
| ZogG | Perhaps you should add the directory containing `dbus.pc' | 18:04 |
| ZogG | to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable | 18:04 |
| ZogG | No package 'dbus' found | 18:04 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: lmao! i use it for txting | 18:04 |
| Macer | because unfortunately most women do not want to use gtalk on their iphones :-P | 18:04 |
| neal | ZogG: do you have the dev packages isntalled? | 18:04 |
| Macer | they would rather pay an extra $10-20 for unlimited txts which still rake in like 50000% profit to the network charging them for it | 18:04 |
| ZogG | $ locate dbus.h | 18:05 |
| ZogG | /usr/include/dbus-1.0/dbus/dbus.h | 18:05 |
| ZogG | neal, ^ | 18:05 |
| Macer | i refuse to pay for txting women when i'm already paying for dinner | 18:06 |
| Macer | i wish maemo had G+ sharing :/ | 18:07 |
| Macer | i suppose it DOES have a picasa plugin | 18:07 |
| ZogG | neal i think so | 18:07 |
| Macer | ARGH | 18:09 |
| Macer | and now the plugin has made gvoice contacts again | 18:09 |
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| Macer | now i have to rm all these fking gvoice contacts | 18:12 |
| * DocScrutinizer stutters "backup" while laughing | 18:15 | |
| ZogG | neal ? | 18:16 |
| vdv | i'm trying to launch qt project in simulator from qt sdk, but get following: Assertion »intel->is_g4x || (tile_x == 0 && tile_y == 0)« failed. Is it related to OpenGL? | 18:18 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: well.. it works fine on an android phone :) | 18:23 |
| Macer | heh | 18:23 |
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| ZogG | neal, i think i figured it out, can you check something? | 18:47 |
| ZogG | neal, http://dpaste.org/LI13R/ | 18:47 |
| neal | seems ok | 18:48 |
| ZogG | neal the part of sending is right? | 18:48 |
| neal | it's a bit strange | 18:49 |
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| neal | you want the name of your signal to be something like "artist" | 18:49 |
| neal | and have it carry a payload | 18:49 |
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| neal | making the name of the artist the payload is unusual | 18:50 |
| neal | and likely unusable | 18:50 |
| neal | if the number of values that artist takes on is large | 18:50 |
| neal | you like want to do dbus_message_append_args | 18:51 |
| neal | http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/api/html/group__DBusMessage.html#ga591f3aab5dd2c87e56e05423c2a671d9 | 18:51 |
| neal | http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/api/html/group__DBusMessage.html#ga591f3aab5dd2c87e56e05423c2a671d9 | 18:51 |
| neal | whoops, sorry about the double paste | 18:51 |
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| fredep | http://ompldr.org/vYjU2Yg/fredwp-rawr-mobile-device.png | 18:55 |
| fredep | Nom nom. | 18:55 |
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| hakkattakk | nice theme fredep | 19:04 |
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| Guest40473 | Macer: http://wiki.maemo.org/The_One_Ring | 19:06 |
| Guest40473 | "Setting of presence: Available, Away (check for messages less often), and Do Not Disturb (disables in-bound phone calls) " | 19:06 |
| Guest40473 | "Basic features: | 19:06 |
| Guest40473 | Support for GV Contacts w/ names | 19:06 |
| Guest40473 | Can be disabled by setting the contact polling time to -1 " | 19:06 |
| fredep | I am using erm. | 19:06 |
| Guest40473 | i think it was a changelog entry that first was like: "yo dog, set your status to away and battery consumption will suck less" | 19:06 |
| fredep | Array theme and AwOken icon theme, both available in the regular repository. | 19:06 |
| fredep | Then I am using the following background: http://www.n900wallpapers.com/wallpaper/eos-remix | 19:07 |
| fredep | Which, would result in the above desktop. | 19:07 |
| fredep | Oh, yeah, I modified the background, I opened it in GIMP and put the mode on grey scale, and saved it. | 19:08 |
| fredep | That is all. | 19:08 |
| fredep | I also modified theme settings to change the (in my opinion), not so pretty green on Active Text to blue, and using fast window transition (why is this not used by default??, not only prettier, but also faster window transition). | 19:09 |
| Guest40473 | Macer: there we go http://maemo.org/packages/view/telepathy-theonering/ a 'feature' in the apt-cache show description. just about as close to 'does what it says on the box' as you can get | 19:11 |
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| fredep | Could anyone tell me, why the option which theme customiser provides, "Faster window transition", is not enabled by default in Maemo CSSU? | 19:20 |
| fredep | It is faster, and prettier. | 19:20 |
| fredep | Is it perhaps unstable or so? | 19:20 |
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| Robot101 | I'm sure its not more unstable - in the run up the N900 release the product managers were changing their mind about the transition speeds / timings / effects / etc every day | 19:48 |
| Robot101 | which is why we made transitions.ini in the end | 19:48 |
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| ZogG | neal changed it but still not sure =) used examples here and there to understand | 19:59 |
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| Rioting_Pacifist | I keep getting the error "SU_GET_UPDATE_STATUS_REQ terminated with error code 1", when trying to flash the VANILLA image, it looks like the n900 is just booting up and not going into flashing mode , is there any way to fix that? | 20:39 |
| andre__ | which OS? with which command? | 20:42 |
| Rioting_Pacifist | linux kubuntu 64bit flasher-3.5 | 20:47 |
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| Rioting_Pacifist | don#t have an alternative os to use but it definelty looks like the phone is just booting up not in flash mode | 20:48 |
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| _rd | My GPS takes a long time to get my location on the n900, although I enabled cell tower positioning with the supl.nokia.com server. | 21:03 |
| _rd | Is anybody else seeing this, did the server name change or do I even have broken hardware? | 21:04 |
| NIN101 | afaik some people changed to supl.google.com afer some issues... | 21:07 |
| Rioting_Pacifist | any ideas for ways to to a emmc flash without using plain flasher as it keeps failing? | 21:08 |
| bindi | yup | 21:08 |
| bindi | supl.nokia.com no workie | 21:08 |
| bindi | fixed with supl.google.com | 21:08 |
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| Rioting_Pacifist | can i get root on an n900 without installing anything? | 21:26 |
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| Guest40473 | yep | 21:37 |
| Guest40473 | attach USB cable, use nokia flasher to --enable-rd-mode | 21:38 |
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| Guest40473 | then you can run sudo gainroot on stock tablet | 21:38 |
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| Guest40473 | otherwise you must install one of the several simple gainroot scripts from the repos | 21:38 |
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| NIN101 | Rioting_Pacifist: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62783 seems the guy in this thread had the same problem and it was solved. | 21:39 |
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| Rioting_Pacifist | thanks Guest40473, turned that on now hopefully if flashing fails i can just format the mmc as required from the rootfs | 21:44 |
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| Guest40473 | no probs. keep in mind R&D mode may increase battery useage by eg:disabling the processor watchdog, extra blinking lights, etc. | 21:48 |
| Guest40473 | might want to --disable-rd-mode & install rootsh from extras when you're done. | 21:48 |
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| Rioting_Pacifist | ok now i broke initfs \o/ google is failing me is there an easy way to flash nolo to pass the default initfs to the kernel? | 21:55 |
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| NIN101 | initfs && maemo? | 21:59 |
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| Rioting_Pacifist | when it boots it says no initfs \o/ then froze but it seems to be booting now, perhaps meamo doesn't have an initfs thats what the \o/ is for? | 22:01 |
| NIN101 | it hasn't. | 22:03 |
| Rioting_Pacifist | seems to have booted I'll run through that fix you found thanks | 22:03 |
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| Rioting_Pacifist | is the main memory in the screen or the keyboard half of the n900? | 23:02 |
| Guest40473 | keyboard, i'd be sure. | 23:03 |
| Guest40473 | screen's going to be only display/digitizer module, sensors, speaker & possibly an antenna. | 23:04 |
| Guest40473 | *forget that, antenna's are all going to be in the plastic main body. unlikely any are crammed around that thin top part | 23:05 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 23:06 |
| SpeedEvil | 'all' the circuitry is in the base. | 23:06 |
| Rioting_Pacifist | thanks, it's just that my problems started when i started switching screens and now it seems nothing can read the main memory at all | 23:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | By main memory, do you mean the EMMC? | 23:17 |
| RiotingPacifist` | SpeedEvil: yes sorry keep dropping off due to bad conenction | 23:20 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 23:20 |
| SpeedEvil | There was someone who was writing a FAQ on how to get your n900 working again from SD - I don't think they've got it quite finished yet. | 23:21 |
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| RiotingPacifist` | wait after a whole day of trying evrything i switched the screens work and BAMM it flashed and is now working :D :D:D:D:D:D:D:D thanks to everybody who helped Guest40473 NIN101 SpeedEvil and anybody who tried to help when i got dropped due to rubbish wifi i love you guys! :D:D:DD | 23:36 |
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| NIN101 | gz | 23:43 |
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