IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-10-23

HRH_H_Crabheh00:01
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HRH_H_Crabi actually have a real hankering for a phone with a dab receiver.00:01
HRH_H_Crabi believe the n9 has some funky headphones that can do that.00:01
HRH_H_Crabmaybe ill just get an n9 and use an ssh client.00:02
HRH_H_Crab:P00:02
psycho_oreosopenmoko is now community supported (manufacturer-less backing) like maemo and very soon meego. nokia and intel dropped support for meego community. hp dropped webos as it could not see a future. There's now a running rumour of nokia mulling over maltemi. google is still dogging with android as well as IP lawsuits from apple but still has a linux kernel in each of the android powered devices. samsung couldn't see much fun with pure linux or pure bsd so th00:03
psycho_oreosey created bada ages ago which is fairly niche just like maemo. Any other alternatives?00:03
wmaroneTizen, oddly00:04
psycho_oreosahh yes Tizen the much updated rumour00:04
HRH_H_Crabwhat is bada?00:04
wmaronerasterman lends it some credibility :)00:05
HRH_H_Crabis it linux with some stuff on top?00:05
psycho_oreosoh I also forgot there was also moblin for instance00:05
psycho_oreosbut moblin is just as niche really00:05
psycho_oreosthere's a wikipage for bada00:06
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smhardoc|home, but the N900 tech is already behind anyway :-)00:08
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psycho_oreosARM platform seems to be a little overrated these days, MIPS at one stage was about to jump onto the bandwagon of smartphone market and really if MIPS for example did jump on, maybe the market could be a little more interesting00:08
wmaronemips is there, just on the baseband side of things00:09
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psycho_oreosI'm already quite surprised the router these days probably packs enough punch to almost be capable of taking on against ARM. The 2 Netgear WNDR3700v2 I bought the other day features Atheros MIPS processor at 600+MHz which needless to say may be just as powerful if not more than my N90000:10
wmaronethe catch being that it doesn't have the power management that ARM does00:11
wmaronealso, good choice in router00:12
wmaroneOpenWRT I presume?00:12
psycho_oreosI haven't read that much further in detail about MIPS but I'm sure if they stepped in and improved their flaws (such as what you highlighted in power management) then yes a competition against the overrated ARM would be gladly welcomed imo00:12
psycho_oreosor DD-WRT/Tomato00:12
HRH_H_Crabdd-wrt...00:13
HRH_H_Crab*shudder*00:13
psycho_oreoshey, its still linux powered. Or would you like a dose of windows powered router? ;)00:13
wmaroneheh, I used dd-wrt on my buffalo until the radio died00:14
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wmaroneopenwrt is, imo, much nicer00:14
psycho_oreosor even one of those crappy OS that sits on top of TrendChip now powering a few routers which doesn't have any linux backing?00:14
psycho_oreosthe two WNDR3700v2 I bought the other day has old OpenWRT installed, so if I do a bit of hardware modding and what not I'll be happy to walk away with a nice powerful MIPS router00:15
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wmaronehardware modding?00:16
psycho_oreosand that reminds me to get rid of this stupid setup on huawei D10000:16
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psycho_oreosyeah hardware modding, with WNDR3700 you can upgrade the RAM and add external antennas00:16
wmaroneinteresting00:16
psycho_oreoshttp://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/netgear/wndr370000:16
psycho_oreosexternal antenna modding isn't particularly interesting neither is it new but then again00:17
psycho_oreosand wndr3800 has the cool bits that wndr3700 owners wished to have minus the potential backing of openwrt just now00:18
wmaroneyup00:18
wmaronesaw it the other day00:18
wmarone128MB of flash, 128MB of ram00:18
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psycho_oreosapparently it still has 16MB of flash, though RAM is upgraded to yeah 128MB, double the size on wndr3700v2 and quadruple the size on wndr370000:18
wmaronethe ram upgrade is tempting00:18
wmaronethe 3700 and 3700v2 have the same amount of RAM00:19
wmaronethe v2 has 2x the flash though00:19
* wmarone has his unit booting from a USB hard drive instead00:20
HRH_H_Crabi need to buy a new router / fwall soon.00:20
psycho_oreosto find the right RAM chip is really hard, yesterday (in my timezone) I asked DocScrutinizer for some electronics suppliers and I found one00:20
HRH_H_Crabgonna use an alix based system i think00:20
HRH_H_Crabi dont need wifi.00:20
HRH_H_Crabprob. put debian on it.00:20
psycho_oreosmy bad, wmarone yes, both WNDR3700v1 and WNDR3700v2 has the same amount of RAM, 64MB which is half of that compared to WNDR380000:21
wmaroneyup00:21
wmaronebaffled me when I saw it on the package00:21
wmaronenever thought I'd see a router vendor list the cpu, ram, and flash specs of the device00:22
psycho_oreosI never seen the v1 package but when I was at the shop scrutinising over the v2 (because the openwrt wiki has been updated to include v3 almost a month ago before I last visited) just to make sure that I hand over my cold hard cash for atheros based not a broadcrap based00:23
psycho_oreosthat also reminds me that I should take a photograph of the v2 box, add detail to my blog and maybe update openwrt wiki, at least its noted the v3 variant does not have 16MB flash00:24
psycho_oreosHRH_H_Crab, sheevaplug ftw ;)00:25
HRH_H_Crabi want 3 nics. :|00:25
HRH_H_Craband ive heard that all those plug things have really bad heating issues.00:25
psycho_oreoswhy 3? going to turn a computer into a router?00:25
HRH_H_Crabwan / lan / dmz00:25
HRH_H_Crabim using an old mac atm.00:26
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HRH_H_Crabgoing to replace it with an alix.00:26
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HRH_H_Crabwill be a lot smaller.00:26
HRH_H_Crabquieter00:26
psycho_oreosapparently that happens with the guru plug, well the power version of guru plug whatever its called.. then again it isn't hard to cut venting holes either :D00:26
HRH_H_Craband use less juice.00:26
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psycho_oreosheh I've turned one of my desktop into a router before, running ipcop it was a beast of a machine but too bad ipcop's addon support was really fragile00:27
psycho_oreosspeaking of overheating issue or issues with the embedded device, I'd steer clear of huawei D100, I have one and it is problematic at times.. so much so that it makes me want to hack it and install openwrt on it, add cooling fins and more cooling vents00:28
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hakkattakkHi! Is there anyway to catagorize the volume on n900? Like 50% with headphones in SomePlayer and 20% with headphones if anyone call? I have changed the EQ so I have to raise the volume, and if anyone call me I think it may hurt my ears.00:58
hakkattakkor if I get a new email/low battery etc. Like system volume00:59
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pistillohello01:12
hakkattakkhi pistillo01:12
pistillohi01:12
pistillocan you help me about android TV box?01:12
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psycho_oreos-> #android <-01:12
pistillo?01:13
hakkattakkfound it!01:13
psycho_oreospistillo, there's an android channel, you might want to try their first01:13
pistillois it a channel in this chat?01:13
psycho_oreosit is a channel yes01:13
psycho_oreoss/their/there/01:14
pistillook thanks a lot01:14
pistillobye01:14
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DocScrutinizerhakkattakk: those *are* separate volume settings already, for all I know02:24
DocScrutinizerin-call volume is independent from mp3-player vol setting, and system tones have a dedicated setting in settings02:24
DocScrutinizerif I'm not completely wrong right now02:25
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zogg_~ZX2C402:25
zogg_~Zogg02:25
infobotfrom memory, zogg is not awesome at all02:25
zogg_~ZX2C402:25
zogg_~seen ZX2C402:25
infobotzx2c4 <~zx2c4@ool-182d9714.dyn.optonline.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 12d 6h 50m 24s ago, saying: 'okay so i guess you don't know if a module exists. thanks for your help anyway'.02:26
zogg_=\02:26
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hakkattakkDocScrutinizer: yeah, I found it! Thanks!02:29
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hakkattakkgod I love my n900 :D02:31
jabisI'd love an n950 so I could really test shit out x)02:32
jabishaving your work phone bricked isn't actually profitable x)02:33
DocScrutinizermeh, I'll leave now for a beer next pub, and I'm *not* going to take the N950 with me - N900 >> *02:33
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ZogG-laptopwmarone__: are you getting hornier and hornier?02:35
jabisDocScrutinizer: have some nice beers on behalf of me <302:35
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jabishornier sounds like a new french gunship x)02:37
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DocScrutinizerHornier&Hornier, the famous french/belgian manufacturers of military aircraft02:45
DocScrutinizer(brothers)02:46
DocScrutinizernot related to Dornier02:46
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ZogGwmarone__ don't lie, what is all ___ this about? are you happy to see DocScrutinizer02:50
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ZogG=)02:51
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libbenhttp://lolpics.se/34744-theists so good02:58
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psycho_oreosthere's probably a few good reasons why you wouldn't want to be walking around in the public with N950 anyway :)03:31
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kakashi_is anybody able to work with dropbox?03:50
kakashi_I just can't log on anymore03:50
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kakashi_even after changing the .config file03:50
kakashi_i.e without getdropbox.com03:50
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kakashi_any ideas guys03:52
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: well, it was fun to have the N950 with me at chaos camp04:20
DocScrutinizertriggered all kinds of unusual behaviour, and earned me some drinks04:22
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, heh I don't mean that it isn't fun to carry your N950 around, I meant in the more of the general context as in using your N950 everyday such as commuting to and from work, going to various places with it every day every week04:22
psycho_oreosit carries a bit of risk though04:22
DocScrutinizerhmm, yeah04:22
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psycho_oreosI'm sure any happy N950 owner in the first few days would be a little paranoid but then would ease up and may want to flirt around with a rare toy, but really that's kinda like holding a lollipop and wondering around waiting for it to catch more attention04:24
DocScrutinizeresp when taking into account the equation sb did here some monzhs ago which was like $NOKIA_R&D_FOR_MAEMO/MEEGO  / $NUMBER_OF_N950_IN_THE_WILD = 3.6 mio USD per device04:24
doc|homewoah04:25
doc|homethen they put a bullet in the head of the entire thing :/04:25
psycho_oreosyou can thank Elop for all that04:25
doc|homeI'll be anti-thanking him by not buying another nokia, does that count? :)04:26
psycho_oreosfirst it was a very nice ad of N950, then it becomes unavailable and whilst its unavailable the specs are crippled. Then it becomes developer only device04:26
psycho_oreospartially imo ;) I'd also tell people to avoid nokia after N904:26
psycho_oreosremember the simple analogy to businesses that one bad customer brings 10 bad customers04:27
psycho_oreosthat'll be sure to cut some wounds into them04:27
doc|homeI wouldn't even bother with the n9. It's a really nice looking phone, but still-born if the platform's going nowhere :/04:28
DocScrutinizeraegis made it not even breathe at birth04:28
psycho_oreosI'll admit that N9 is a still-born platform but with maemo's premature death there aren't many alternatives apart from one switching across to a completely different platform04:29
DocScrutinizerstick with maemo04:29
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psycho_oreosI mean what else can one look at? android? moblin? bada? etc?04:29
psycho_oreosmaemo won't last around forever :)04:29
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.rasterman.com/index.php?page=News04:30
doc|homemoblin was merged into meego, meego's now dead. Bada's way off from being a competitor. So I'm keeping an eye on android :/04:30
DocScrutinizerFeb. 1104:30
psycho_oreosoh yeah I forgot about tizen and openmoko too04:31
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: it's now oct, and noticeable advancement since then?04:31
doc|homeopenmoko's dead04:31
psycho_oreosits still in the wraps with that samsung linux.. I won't hold hopes over vapourware imo.. but N9 is an end product, meaning that its not a vapourware.. its already out04:32
DocScrutinizerI never planned to get any new phone/OS during the next ~5 years, so I'm sticking with maemo and for lack of new hw with N900, and with CSSU. And I'll keep an eye on what raster eventually might come up with04:32
psycho_oreosopenmoko is dead manufacturer wise :)04:32
doc|homes/and noticeable/any noticeable04:32
doc|homepsycho_oreos: you're trying to say it was strong in software? :)04:33
DocScrutinizertizen is BS, OM is dead04:33
doc|homebada could be interesting, but until it's actually a competitor with a top tier phone I'm meh about it. No interest in dumb phones.04:34
psycho_oreosdoc|home, I'm saying that it still probably is strong in software and some minor closed group hardware developments. Though however its unfortunate that openmoko is mostly dead otherwise04:34
doc|homepsycho_oreos: it was never really strong in software04:34
DocScrutinizerOM-the-community/SHR might come up with semi-mature "anti-vendor-ports" for a fistful of devices04:34
DocScrutinizerbada is BS, even more than sybian or tizen04:35
doc|homedepends on how bent out of shape motorgoogle gets samsung04:35
psycho_oreosdoc|home, hey well I don't know what openmoko is really like but I'm sure its probably as highly configurable (more than maemo) right? and maybe a lot better hardware access compared to android platform04:35
psycho_oreosspeaking of which someone linked a mailing list of alternatives to booting up dalvik vm with android devices04:36
DocScrutinizeropenmoko doesn't sell any hw04:36
doc|homepsycho_oreos: I have a freerunner doing paperweight duties on my desk. I tried to like/use it but it just wasn't reliable enough to be usable. In the end I switched phone company who had hspa as soon as the n900 came out and that was the end of that04:36
psycho_oreosthe stuff is in alpha stage04:37
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: what exactly are you talking about? and do you really know?04:38
psycho_oreosnot sure if openmoko did sell it but I do remember they organised group purchases for freerunner.04:39
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, which the dalvik vm alternative or openmoko stuff?04:39
DocScrutinizerthere's goldelico startting to sell gta04 in a Openmoko case, that's however not anything gaining traction of any degree, any time04:39
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: ENOPARSE04:40
psycho_oreosError[1]: `enoparse' is not defined04:41
psycho_oreos:)04:41
HyperSnyperanyone use psx emulators, and do any decent games work without overclocking ?04:46
* DocScrutinizer has a strange daydream - porting fremantle to N9. What's missing? bme: available by HARM. GFX-accel: same. Boot: check. OK N9 has no kbd :-(04:49
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Macerfinally!!06:02
Macerwon a brand new n900  for $25506:03
Macerafter losing bids from the same   seller 9 times06:03
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psycho_oreoshe was probably happy that he was able to recoup around half the money he spent on the thing06:04
psycho_oreosat least he probably achieved his minimum price mark anyway06:04
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Macermaybe06:12
Macerlol06:12
Macerdont carr06:12
Macere06:12
Macercant wait  to get it :)06:15
Macermight  open it to seriously fix the usb06:15
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smhardocscrutinizer, how do you compare N950 against N900?06:27
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Macerhm06:39
Macernow i have to wait 2 weeka to get the damn thing06:39
Macerweeks06:39
Macerah well06:39
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Macerhttp://www.boxwave.com/nokia-n900-cases-and-covers/nokia-n900-armor-case/bwpdd/pf-tckk/07:03
Macerhave to get one :)07:03
Maceralthough the giant hinge is kind of ugly07:03
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nicofsi use my n900 as a hotspot. on my laptop i can ping google - but trying to open google in a browser results in timeout... any ideas?12:47
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slonopotamusdns?12:49
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nicofshow could it... ping resolves correctly...12:49
nicofsand not only google... anything12:49
slonopotamusmaybe your browser uses different dns server12:49
slonopotamustry opening smth by an ip address in browser12:50
nicofsit's not only the browser... it's all browsers, pidgin, xchat... even lynx12:50
slonopotamusfirewall? :)12:50
slonopotamusping is icmp, all the rest you listed is tcp12:51
nicofshow can i check if there is a firewall blocking anything?12:51
nicofsi never set one up12:51
slonopotamusask your network administrator12:51
nicofswhat admin of which network...? i'm using 3G...12:53
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hakkattakknicofs: test to browse to this address: http://173.194.32.1713:02
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chem|stmoo13:03
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nicofshakkattakk timeout13:08
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hakkattakknicofs: strange, have you tried another broswer?13:11
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nicofshakkattakk chromium, firefor, lynx. pidgin, xchat...13:12
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DocScrutinizertraceroute google13:41
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mr_jrtI still have no idea what the problem was with the hinge given that the near-identical E7's is apparently fine.14:20
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psycho_oreoson the contrary you're offtopic14:23
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TiagoTiagoMy N900 won't turn on and if i plug the charger it kinda goes into a reboot loop and never even starts to charge Dx14:33
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TiagoTiagoIf i try to turn it on it stays in the NOKIA screen for a while and then the screen fades kinda like as if i pulled the battery14:34
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psycho_oreosreflash?14:36
TiagoTiagoi just did that a couple weeks ago, took more than two days without sleep to get everything installed and set just the way i wanted :(14:37
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psycho_oreosI guess you have had a minor hiccup somewhere and now the device cannot boot properly without reflash.. you might be able to boot in via R&D mode but I wouldn't hold my breath14:38
TiagoTiagoFuck, windows flasher won't do R7D mode?14:39
TiagoTiagoR&D*14:39
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psycho_oreosyou might be able to alleviate that by booting into linux either through real or virtualised and going from there14:41
psycho_oreosiirc the updated 0xFFFF tool maybe able to set R&D mode but I don't know if you can compile it on windows though14:42
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TiagoTiagoHm, it's now in the NOKIA screen forever with the status LED steady yellow after i plugged the usb cable right after pressing the power button; is that of any help?14:47
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TiagoTiagoIs there any option not involving me having to download a Linux image?14:56
DocScrutinizerno flashing with depleted battery14:56
TiagoTiagoIt was green before this started :(14:56
DocScrutinizerno charging with messed up rootfs14:56
TiagoTiago:(14:57
DocScrutinizerCHARGE YOUR BATTERY COMPLETELY PRIOR TO FLASHING14:57
TiagoTiagosteady yellow means it is charging without rootfs?14:57
DocScrutinizeryes, but only emergency charge to ~3.6V, way too low for flashing14:57
TiagoTiago:(14:58
TiagoTiagoseems i'm screwed :(14:58
DocScrutinizeryou are trapped in a well known deadlock, and your only chance is to get a charged battery without using the N900 to charge it14:58
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TiagoTiagoI don't have an external charger nor another device compatible with the battery :(14:59
DocScrutinizeralien charge (compatible Nokia device), external stand alone charger, or a brand new battery14:59
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TiagoTiagodon't got another battery either15:00
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dm8tbror lab bench power supply with proper regulation15:01
TiagoTiagowhat happens if i try flasher-3.5.exe --enable-rd-mode (windows obviouslly)15:01
TiagoTiago?15:01
DocScrutinizerso what's your general plan? hacking some DIY only advisable to electronics hackers? visit a friend who got a compatible phone?15:02
DocScrutinizerorder a charge?15:02
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: nuttin happens15:02
DocScrutinizerthere is no such method out of your deadlock situation15:03
TiagoTiagoIf i can't enable R&D mode under Windows i guess the only option for the moment would be to try to get some sort of Linux running on my desktop15:03
DocScrutinizeryou can't ernable R&D mode under any OS when bat is empty, and it wouldn't help anything anyway15:03
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DocScrutinizeryou should've installed (and used) backupmenu15:04
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TiagoTiagoRD mode works under windows it seems15:05
DocScrutinizerit a) would allow yu to restore to a prev customized system in no time (once you fixed your issues with booting, e.g. by reflah) and b) it has a builtin charger mostly immune to rootfs kickups15:05
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: r&D mode doesn't by any definition "work" under any host OS15:06
DocScrutinizerit's a mode set on N90015:06
TiagoTiago"You must use a Linux or a Mac OS X computer to enable R&D Mode, as the Windows update wizard will not allow you to enable/disable R&D Mode. Although, the Windows flasher will disable R&D Mode if you use it to reflash a device that has R&D Mode already enabled. "15:06
TiagoTiagohttp://wiki.maemo.org/R%26D_mode15:06
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DocScrutinizerso what?15:06
chem|stDocScrutinizer: moo15:07
DocScrutinizeris this related to your problem?15:07
DocScrutinizermoo chem|st15:07
chem|stTiagoTiago: wont help your problem15:07
TiagoTiagosomeone here suggested i try to switch to R&D mode to boot and fix the reboot loop15:07
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DocScrutinizerBS15:07
chem|stTiagoTiago: your state is "battery too low to do anything"15:07
DocScrutinizerwell, most probably BS15:07
DocScrutinizeryes, exactly what chem|st says15:07
chem|stTiagoTiago: that only works with a healthy battery15:08
chem|stand even then it might not do any good...15:08
TiagoTiagoBut the issue started right when i rebooted with green status led (it was connected to the wall charger overnight15:08
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chem|strebootloop drains the battery in no time15:08
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chem|stwb gri15:08
TiagoTiagothe reboot loop drained the battery in just a few minutes without  the device not even feeling warm?15:08
DocScrutinizergreen light is an info of the system, not a surveillance for a nuklear powerplant. It may be completely wrong15:09
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chem|stTiagoTiago: your device drains on a wallcharger too, as the green state remains without checking if it should be recharged if once been there and the charger does not get replugged15:10
DocScrutinizerif for example bme segfaulted and never recovered, then your charging stopped and *nobody* bothered to reset the green light to off15:10
TiagoTiagoSo it could actually have already drained the battery but it only realised it was out of charge after rebooting?15:10
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chem|stTiagoTiago: exactly15:10
DocScrutinizeryes15:10
chem|sthappened to me once or twice15:10
TiagoTiagoIsn't there some sort of watchdog or somthing that would fire BME back again if it crashed?15:11
chem|stbme and mce were going wild and needed the battery removed15:11
DocScrutinizeryes, but if this failed (does frequently with e.g PK47 with bq27x00.ko loaded) then no luck15:11
chem|stI found out by notworking lights15:12
chem|stso no backlight and no kbdlight15:12
DocScrutinizer(the bme restart)15:12
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DocScrutinizerlong story short - what are you going to do now? if it's "I'll flush that n900 down the toilet" then tell me where you live so I can check the drain15:13
TiagoTiagoIf i get a linux running, could i use that rescueos initrd thing to try to fix things?15:14
DocScrutinizeryou need a charged battery15:14
TiagoTiagoI'm freaking out, but not that gone insane just yet15:14
TiagoTiagothat insane*15:14
DocScrutinizergood thinking, but unclear if you ever get rescue-initrd running on a flatbat-device15:14
DocScrutinizercoldflashing might work, to start the rescue initrd, but that's never been described15:15
DocScrutinizerso you'd be the first one to do it, and no support, not even much of support from me, sorry15:16
chem|stTiagoTiago: yeah nice idea but you need power, as DocScrutinizer just said coldflashing might get you back into emergency charging but noone ever tried that documented...15:16
DocScrutinizerI may help though in working towards an alternative for charging that doesn't include N90015:16
TiagoTiagothat involves having those special plugs for those ports under the battery, right?15:16
DocScrutinizerno15:17
chem|stactualy no15:17
chem|styou need a charger which can charge LiPoly @1.2A 5V15:18
DocScrutinizerbut it involves pro level understanding of flaher, rom-bootloader, 1st and 2nd level bootloader, and the way to bootstrap a device out of nirvana15:18
TiagoTiagoIs there some follproof way of improvising a charger?15:18
DocScrutinizer(the coldflashing that is)15:18
chem|stTiagoTiago: nope15:18
DocScrutinizeryes15:18
DocScrutinizer:-)15:18
DocScrutinizeralmost foolproof15:18
chem|stDocScrutinizer: foolproof?15:19
chem|styeah almost...15:19
DocScrutinizerold nokia charger15:19
TiagoTiagoI can't just pull some wires straight from the wall charger and touch the battery wires, can i?15:19
TiagoTiagobattery contacts*15:19
DocScrutinizer4.8V 600mA, will happily charge the cell until it explodes ;-P15:19
DocScrutinizer(not really)15:20
TiagoTiagodoesn't sound foolproof :/15:20
chem|stnope15:20
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: not from usb wallcharger, no15:20
TiagoTiagoWhat about one of those old ones, with the small pin plug?15:20
chem|styou need a powersupply with 4.8-5V and limit the current to 600-1000mA15:20
DocScrutinizeryou need an old nokia charger with barrel connector that says sth like "4.8V= 600mA"15:21
DocScrutinizeryes, one of those old ones15:21
DocScrutinizerbut must be Nokia original15:21
chem|stif you got one of those you can go for it, they have a charger array15:22
TiagoTiagoHow do i know which wire goes where?15:22
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DocScrutinizerthose barrel connectors have an inner contact which is + and goes to +, and a sleve/outer which is - and goes to -15:22
DocScrutinizerand I strongly recommend you get a voltmeter as well15:23
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DocScrutinizerand check the battery voltage every 5 min15:24
TiagoTiagoIt wouldn't help to test with my tongue, would it?15:24
DocScrutinizerstop chaging when battery voltage goes well over 4.0V15:24
TiagoTiagomeanwhile i should disable RD mode?15:24
DocScrutinizerno, tongue doesn't have 5% accuracy (except mine ;-P )15:24
DocScrutinizeryou shouldn't even care about R&D15:25
ShadowJKexternal charger is 4.20Eur from eastmaze15:25
TiagoTiagoI'm not sure where i can find somthing open around here on a Sunday...15:26
DocScrutinizerplease also check http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bl-5j/compatibility and think *twice* if you may find a compatible device for charging15:26
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DocScrutinizerbetter wait until Monday or even next month, rather than nuking your beloved N900, no?15:27
TiagoTiagothe charger i got is a AC-3EB; it says it's output is 5.0V  and 350 mA15:27
TiagoTiagoit was for a N7315:28
DocScrutinizerNokia I guess15:28
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TiagoTiagoyep15:28
DocScrutinizerbarrel connector?15:28
TiagoTiagothe thin one, yes15:28
DocScrutinizerwith the "hole" in middle15:28
TiagoTiagoi also saw another one with the bigger round one, i thikn it was for a 3675 (am i remembering the model name right? it was the one with the round dial-like keypad)15:29
DocScrutinizer"the thin one" isn't exactly descriptive15:29
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chem|st1.5mm15:29
chem|stor something15:29
DocScrutinizerooh fsck, 1.5mm barrel?15:30
TiagoTiagoOops, i meant 365015:30
DocScrutinizerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_connector15:31
chem|stor 2.3mm or something15:31
chem|stsmaller than a 2.5mm jack15:31
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TiagoTiagoIT's about as thick as the "N900" reflective text on top of the N900 screen15:32
TiagoTiagoIt's*15:32
DocScrutinizerwhatever it is, if it's a Nokia wallwart and says sth like 5V xxxmA15:33
ShadowJKall my 2mm "5V" output 6-8V15:33
DocScrutinizerthen you're quite probably safe with attaching it to the battery, + to +, - to -15:33
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: without load, that'S ok15:34
ShadowJKit doesn't matter that much if you monitor charging constantly and stop at 4.2V15:34
chem|stDocScrutinizer: 2mm it is15:34
DocScrutinizerstop at 4.05..4.10 volt15:34
DocScrutinizerno good idea to go to the limit with such a brute force mcGyver setup15:35
chem|stDocScrutinizer: he could stop at 3.9 and try emergency charging with the device15:35
DocScrutinizerno, as the device doesn't charge15:35
DocScrutinizerhe needs a bat that allows reflash15:36
chem|stah ok15:36
chem|stah the bricked OS we have too?!15:36
DocScrutinizerbut anyway a voltmeter is mandatory15:36
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: you *could* gamble and simply charge the battery until it cuts out on overvoltage via protective circuitry, or gets hot. I *STRONGLY* discourage you from doing so15:38
ShadowJKI've accidentally triggered those circuits, and they're not so good. It had no hysteresis, constantly switching on/off and getting warm15:39
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: come back when you got the charger, the wires, and a *voltmeter*, and we'll talk you thru the process15:39
TiagoTiagoNo way to use the flasher to tell it to bypass the battery and get the energy straigjht out of the usb plug?15:40
DocScrutinizerif you really want to do that. I still think it's a way better idea to find a compatible charger device (aka Nokia phone) and charge your cell with that15:40
ShadowJKvoltmeters can be found in generic hardware and DIY home improvement stores here, as well as in big supermarkets15:40
ShadowJKTiagoTiago; do you have uboot or meego installed?15:41
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: we told you several times now thare's evidently no way out of your situation other than alien charging15:41
TiagoTiagoShadowJK: just Maemo15:42
DocScrutinizer(well, except coldflash rescue OS, aka rescue-initrd or meego or NIIN101's thing)15:42
DocScrutinizerand I honestly doubt you'll succeed to get that working15:43
DocScrutinizerplease check http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bl-5j/compatibility and call all your friends if one of then has any of those compatible devices to charge your cell15:45
TiagoTiagoWould it be safe to try to charge the battery from a device that isn't compatible, by conecting the contacts with some wires?15:45
TiagoTiagoLike a N73 or a 3650?15:45
DocScrutinizerusually yes, but most devices will not work15:46
ShadowJKI'm pretty sure I could get wires connected to battery without any of them touching eachother, but not so sure about getting them attached to phone15:46
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TiagoTiagoI could probably tape them against the contacts15:47
DocScrutinizerhttp://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bp-4l/compatibility  those devices use bp-4l battery (like N810) and are known to charge the bl-5j if you just push the battery to the contacts (it won't fit nicely into the battery bay so you have to push rather hard, but contacts are compatible)15:48
TiagoTiagoDo i have to worry about the thickness of the wires or any will do?15:48
TiagoTiagoI only got a N73 and a 365015:49
ShadowJKI wouldn't worry about thickness15:49
ShadowJKunless you're making them really really long15:49
TiagoTiagothe N73 uses BP-6M batteries, i have to go find where i stuck the 3650 though, i don't think it got unpacked yet after i moved15:51
DocScrutinizeranyway charging with a $RANDOM device by attaching the wires to the battery and device's battery cotacts probably is the worst idea of all15:51
TiagoTiago:(15:51
ShadowJKit's probably less dangerous than attaching random powersupply with wires15:52
TiagoTiagoI thought it would be safer than trying to jerryrig a old charger straight into the battery15:52
woldrichTiagoTiago, I was in the same situation myself. Stupid, stupid15:52
DocScrutinizeryou're risking to destroy the abused device, and success is not exactly guaranteed either, as all those devices use some 3rd contact to monitor battery and that usually isn't really compatible15:52
TiagoTiagoi see15:53
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: random charger yes, bad idea. Nokia barrel connector wallwart charger: reasonably safe15:53
ShadowJKAnd if you put a nokia phone in between nokia barrel psu and battery...15:54
DocScrutinizerNokia specs for all their wallwart chargers with barrel connector was such that phone can PWM connect it directly to battery15:54
DocScrutinizercurrent limiting done inside wallwart15:55
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DocScrutinizerthey are bult for that15:55
ShadowJKYeah, and with high internal resistance battery, the voltage over battery climbed to 4.6V on my N810 ;p15:55
ShadowJK(at which point bme called abort())15:56
DocScrutinizerquite possible, when the N810 doesn't check for voltage and stopped the process just in time15:56
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DocScrutinizer"normal" wallwart PSUs have a huge buffer capacitor and things like that, and don't react too good to overcurrent, or even provide up to several Ampere when shortcircuited15:58
DocScrutinizerNokia charger wallwart will never provide more than the xxx mA as stated on label15:58
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TiagoTiagothe good news is i found my multimeter, the bad news is the aligator clip is so oxydised the resistance is all over the place16:06
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DocScrutinizerthat's btw where the term "fastcharger" originates from, I guess. As 'old' Nokia phones never used continuous CC/CV charging, but rather charged PWM (0.5..2Hz) and the CC been delivered by the charger. So a "fastcharger" with 800mA rated output actually chaged faster than one with 550mA rated output16:07
DocScrutinizeralifator clip, humm16:08
DocScrutinizerdon't you have tips on it to just touch the battery's + and - pads?16:08
DocScrutinizers/pads/contact springs/16:09
DocScrutinizero.O16:09
TiagoTiagoi replaced with aligator clips so i wouldn't have to hold it in place, seems i bought cheap ones though (and actually my soldering job was shitty, one of them fell off a while ago)16:09
DocScrutinizercut them off and use the bare wire ends :-P16:10
DocScrutinizerwill work just fine to touch the battery contacts16:11
TiagoTiagoSEems there is some chemical reaction going on, it's accusing  a few microvolts (either that or my house is haunted)16:12
TiagoTiagowithout anything touching the wires that is16:12
TiagoTiagohm, wait, that is not right, i'm moving the dial up and it still shows numbers, shouldn't it start ignoring the least significatn digits if i switch to bigger voltage?16:13
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TiagoTiagoIf i pull out the probes seems the probe wires it seems to only show random microvolts, but with the wries attached it keeps showing random numbers (usually bellow 5) for the least significant digit regardless of which range i set it to, even in AC...16:17
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TiagoTiagosame thing in amperimeter mode...16:18
DocScrutinizernever mind16:18
DocScrutinizershort the wires, should make those rnadom digits go away. If not, never mind16:19
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DocScrutinizermake sure you picker correct meter range (e.g 20V DC)16:19
DocScrutinizerand probe the battery16:20
TiagoTiagoSeems the numbers change, or appear, more often if i have my hand near the thing...16:20
DocScrutinizermake sure you get a semi-steady reading, write it down16:20
TiagoTiagovolts or amps?16:21
DocScrutinizerVOLT!!!!16:21
TiagoTiagobetween  3.86 and 3.8716:22
DocScrutinizergood16:22
DocScrutinizeractually that's not that bad either16:22
TiagoTiagolol16:22
LaoLang_coolanyone using weechat on pc?16:22
DocScrutinizernevertheless you may want to charge the cell to ~4V16:23
ErwinJungeI'm installing the maemo 5 sdk from scratch on a new machine using http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_using_Text-based_Installer and have a question16:23
ErwinJungeI noticed that the scratchbox repository also has scratchbox-toolchain-cs2009q3-*, while I'm installing scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-* now. Going from a "newer must equal better" viewpoint, is it possible/advisable to switch to 2009q3?16:24
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: or you even may try reflashing when your battery is at ~3.9V (3.87 actually). It might just suffice to do a normal flashing16:24
DocScrutinizerbut I guess the voltage will drop to 3.6 or 3.5 as soon as you insert the battery to N900 and boot up the device16:25
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DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: I never heard of cs200?q3-*16:27
DocScrutinizerare you sure this is for N900/fremantle? MAybe it's for diablo/N8x0 ?16:27
Kaadlajkcs2009q3 is the harmattan toolchain16:27
DocScrutinizeraaah16:27
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ErwinJungeDocScrutinizer: It's the 3rd item in the wiki link I just posted16:28
ErwinJunge"Install scratchbox"16:28
ErwinJungeHas a list of packages, with among other things scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i48616:29
javispedroErwinJunge: the answer is no.16:29
ErwinJungejavispedro: Thanks :)16:30
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ErwinJungeAlso care to explain why?16:30
javispedroABI16:30
javispedrofirst, each toolchain release is built with a specific glibc version in mind; second, even if this wasn't the case, gcc does have its support libraries around, and the device ones are cs2007.16:31
ErwinJungeOk, clear. Thankns16:32
TiagoTiagoThe voltimeter says the wallcharger puts out 9 volts, not 5...16:32
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DocScrutinizernever mind16:34
TiagoTiagoWTF?! it puts out 19 volts in AC 0.016:34
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: are you sure you know how to *use* a multimeter?16:34
DocScrutinizere.g. you CAN NOT probe Ampere of any power source!16:35
TiagoTiagowhy not?16:35
DocScrutinizerwill most likely destroy your multimeter16:35
TiagoTiagotoo late :(16:35
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jabislol @ too late :D16:35
DocScrutinizerthought as much16:35
javispedroooh, my N900 will be out of warranty in a week.16:36
TiagoTiagohow can i check if it's toasted?16:36
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DocScrutinizerbasically not at all, in practice check the voltage of the battery, with CORRECT RANGE SET i.e. 20V DC!16:37
TiagoTiagoi would expect it would use separate circuits for the voltimeter and the amperimeter16:38
javispedroErwinJunge: what you can do btw is upgrade to a new version of the same toolchain, these are also available some times.16:38
DocScrutinizer(or 10V or 40, or whatever your DMM offers)16:38
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: (separate circuits) possible, but not guaranteed16:39
TiagoTiagowhat's the proper way to use the amperimeter part then?16:39
DocScrutinizerthere's even a small chance it's still OK or just blew a fuse16:39
TiagoTiagovolts still reading almost 3.916:39
TiagoTiagoit says it can handle at most 200mA16:40
TiagoTiagofor the battery that is16:40
DocScrutinizerso what's happening if you try to flash with this battery? I.E. will the USB icon stay on NOKIA screen when you hold "u" while plugging in wallcharger?16:40
TiagoTiagocan i trust the charger if it's putting out 19volts in AC?16:41
DocScrutinizeris it a Nokia wallwart charger with a barel connector?16:41
TiagoTiagoi could get it to go into,a nd then ouyt of RD mode,  haven't tried flashing yet, i was hoping there would be a solution without involving me having to reinstall pretty much everything16:41
TiagoTiagoit was, now it got a red and a black wire sticking out16:42
DocScrutinizerthen it's OK for charging, but when you get the USB logo steady then the battery is OK for flashing16:42
DocScrutinizerno need to charge it16:42
DocScrutinizerand no, there's no way out of bootloop other than R&D mode and reflashing16:43
DocScrutinizernot if you don't have a clue what's wrong with your system16:43
TiagoTiagoI've had way too many sleepless nights latelly, i would rather not have to spend yet another few days burning at both ends to get things back to a reasonable level :(16:44
DocScrutinizerseems your "reasonable level" caused a bootloop anyway16:44
TiagoTiagoOne thing i would try if i could get access to the files would be to replace the transitions and leds files back to default16:44
ErwinJungejavispedro: How would I recognize the difference between a new version of the same toolchain and a different toolchain?16:44
DocScrutinizerand as mentioned before you'd not be in that situation if you had proper backups16:45
javispedroErwinJunge: by the version number ;P16:45
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TiagoTiagobackup menu is incompatible with that techinique for booting from the emmc16:45
javispedro1.0, 1.0.1, 1.0.2...16:45
TiagoTiago:(16:45
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: fair idae. So get NIN101 rescue system working, and do exactly that16:45
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TiagoTiagodo i get that Maemo VM or should i go with a full linux?16:46
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DocScrutinizerhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=7536916:46
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ErwinJungejavispedro: I'm installing these things via apt-get, I guess it should just get the most recent version automatically.16:52
javispedrook..16:52
TiagoTiagoWait, so it can work from Windows?16:52
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ErwinJungeTiagoTiago: The VM thing works fine from Windows16:53
TiagoTiagoSo i need to get the Maemo VM to use RescueOS?16:53
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TiagoTiagoIf the problem was in the transitions or the LEDs file would RD mode allow it to boot?16:57
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ErwinJungeTiagoTiago: I don't know about RescueOS, nor what you are trying to accomplish exactly. I've used the Maemo VM to compile stuff to run on the N900. It works for that.17:00
ErwinJungeI'll stop commenting now, since you seem to be trying to do something dangerous and I don't want to be responsible for you blowing up your device :)17:00
TiagoTiagolol17:01
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: nobody can tell for sure what R&D will do for your device regarding stopping bootloop. You have to try it17:05
TiagoTiagorescueOS booted, now i'm running the charger script17:06
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TiagoTiagostarted at 70% and it's now at 72%, i guess that means that part is working17:08
TiagoTiagoDocScrutinizer but does RD mode allow booting when the transitions or the LEDs file (it's MCE.ini i think) got messed up contents?17:16
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: nobody can tell for sure what R&D will do for your device regarding stopping bootloop. You have to try it17:17
TiagoTiagoI'm nto talking about my device, i'm talking about RD mode in general17:18
chem|stI'd guess as soon as there is a watchdog it will reboot17:18
TiagoTiagodoes it bypass errors in those files?17:18
DocScrutinizerand I'm not going to start a master thesis to answer your question17:18
TiagoTiagoWhat makes that not a "Yes" or "no" question?17:19
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DocScrutinizerthe fact that mce for example won't help system to operate when it doesn't restart resp. consistently segfaults. R&D mode won't change that17:20
DocScrutinizerand no, R&D mode doesn't "bypass" any errors in any file17:20
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TiagoTiagoso it just moves along even if the errors in the files makes the device unusable for the remainder of the session?17:20
DocScrutinizerit just allows to ignore watchdog timeouts17:21
TiagoTiagoi see17:21
DocScrutinizerand even that you need to enable separately after R&D got enabled17:21
DocScrutinizerR&D by itself has subtile effects none of which will really help you to recover from bootloop17:21
TiagoTiagoI see17:22
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DocScrutinizerwell, maybe it stops dsme from rebooting the device on excessive restarts of a monitored process, so that *would* help avoid some bootloop causes. Not though for mce I think17:24
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TiagoTiagoIs there some log i could check with RescueOS (it can mount the fs's) that would point me to what is causing the device to not boot up?17:25
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TiagoTiagooops, closed the wrong tab17:27
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TiagoTiagoErm, how often does the channel log gets updated?17:28
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TiagoTiagoNope, didn't miss anything while i hadn't rejoined17:30
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DocScrutinizersyslog, if you got that running17:53
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DocScrutinizeron your bootlooping system, that is17:54
DocScrutinizerwon't help much to start ksyslogd on the rescue OS17:54
TiagoTiagocrap, i think hadn't installed that yet :(17:54
DocScrutinizerthen all logs got lost with each reboot17:55
DocScrutinizerdmesh just maintains a RAM buffer17:55
DocScrutinizerdmesg*17:55
TiagoTiago:(17:55
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TiagoTiagoWhere does the N900 stores the reboot count?18:06
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Sicelo /var/lib/dsme/boot_count18:09
TiagoTiagothanx18:09
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TiagoTiagoweird, it says it's zero, shouldn't it be more if i'm having bootloop issues?18:14
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TiagoTiagoDoes RescueOS got fsck?18:21
ShadowJKI ran fsck once, it was big mistake18:22
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TiagoTiagoeven just to check for the presence of errors?18:25
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DocScrutinizerre boot_count see "Houston, we got a problem!"18:28
TiagoTiagoIt shouldn't be zero?18:28
DocScrutinizerI guess the idea of boot counting got nuked with fixing the Houston bug in PR1.118:29
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NIN101<TiagoTiago> Does RescueOS got fsck? <-- yes, for extX and fat.18:36
TiagoTiagoAre they safe or should i stick with the experience people had so far with fsck and the N900?18:38
DocScrutinizerwell, it may take ages, and still result is uncertain18:38
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DocScrutinizernothing a proper full reflash wouldn't fix though18:39
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TiagoTiagobtw, since i got you here, any progress with adding MidnightCommander to rescueOS?18:39
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DocScrutinizerexcept for the flash-storage wear that's of course done by fsck as by any other heavy storage write process18:40
DocScrutinizer(mc) that'd actually be awesome18:41
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TiagoTiagoNIN101?18:42
NIN101No I didn't do anything to add midnightcommander to rescueos. If it's not too big(and I think it isn' :-) then I see no reason why it shouldn't be added.18:42
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TiagoTiagohttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1073320&postcount=16 he says it's around 3.8 in Fremantle18:43
NIN101that's ok.18:43
EddyB_I have a nokia n900. My friend has a computer with FreeBSD on it. I'm trying to mount the phone so that I can get some stuff off it. Can anyone help.18:44
TiagoTiago3.8MB*18:44
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ShadowJKStart phone, plug in usb, select mass storage mode. Check dmesg on PC to see what device it appeared as?18:45
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TiagoTiagoBtw, does ROS come with any other text editor besides vi (preferably somthing that feels more "normal" to use, without everything going thru keyboard shortcuts like that, perhaps somthing done in ncurses)18:46
TiagoTiago?18:46
NIN101it comes with nano.18:47
EddyB_ShadowJK, it says da118:47
TiagoTiagocool18:48
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EddyB_Under /etc/fstab, what is the file system type of the n90018:49
ShadowJKI wouldn't use fstab18:49
EddyB_What do you suggest?18:49
ShadowJKjust manually mount -t msdos /dev/da1 /mnt/n90018:50
ShadowJKor something like that18:50
ShadowJKmaybe it's da1s0, not sure, what came up when I googled "How to mount usb flash in freebsd" ;-)18:51
TiagoTiagoI can't use ROS to install things on the actual Maemo inside the N900 using apt-get, can i?18:51
EddyB_Checking now. Thanks.18:52
ShadowJKmount_msdosfs is also mentioned18:53
NIN101it would be possible if you mount the maemo rootfs, the home partition to /mnt/maemo/home/ and a bind mount of /mnt/maemo/home/opt to /mnt/maemo/opt. Then you must chroot into /mnt/maemo, but, as I have read and experienced, apt-get can mess up things, so I wouldn't recommend it.18:54
DocScrutinizerindeed18:57
DocScrutinizerrather "onstall" manually, by copying the needed files to their locations, and set permissions accordingly18:58
DocScrutinizerInstall*18:58
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DocScrutinizermaybe even run the pre-inst/post-inst scripts of the package on your target, after fixing any paths and other OS rootfs/kernel related stuff18:59
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TiagoTiagoIf i flash the rootfs, do i have to reinstall everything or just a few things like the power kernel?19:03
DocScrutinizeryou *have to* reinstall nothing19:04
DocScrutinizeryou most likely will want to flash kernel as well, not only rootfs - aka COMBINED19:04
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TiagoTiagoi mean, will things get kinda half uninstalled?19:05
TiagoTiagook, if i reflash COMBINED19:05
DocScrutinizererr, the apps' settings in ~user/.* will persist19:05
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DocScrutinizerthe apps themselves though are mostly nuked by a combined flash19:06
AlmightyOatmeali'm new to having a maemo based device.. i have a nokia n810 running OS2008 and i'm having trouble installing apps.. 98% of apps won't install, most give an error about either unable to install dependancies or conflicting with package os2008 feature upgrade 1:5.2008.43-7. any insight?19:06
DocScrutinizerstandard backup app restore will reinstall them all19:06
TiagoTiagoit goes screwy with the quantiy of things i have installed...19:07
TiagoTiagoquantity19:07
DocScrutinizerAlmightyOatmeal: maybe ShadowJK may help19:08
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I don't see this problem on my N810 here19:08
TiagoTiagonot even Synpatic manages to handle installing just a small fraction of things i want at once, got always do it in small batches19:08
ShadowJKAlmightyOatmeal; what app and version are you trying to install?19:09
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: err19:09
AlmightyOatmealShadowJK: just about anything, litereally.19:09
TiagoTiagoI know, i'm a hoarder u.u19:10
DocScrutinizerAlmightyOatmeal: wrong repository?19:10
TiagoTiagoSynaptic*19:10
ShadowJKYeah I'd wonder if you're trying to install stuff from fremantle repos19:10
AlmightyOatmealhttp://pastebin.com/VPXMU0c7 <-- the repositories i'm using. i didn't think they were incorrect19:10
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AlmightyOatmealShadowJK: some are from fremantle, yes19:11
DocScrutinizerLOL19:11
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AlmightyOatmeal?19:11
DocScrutinizeryou don't want any fremantle or other (non-diablo) repos19:12
AlmightyOatmeali had more or less the same issue with using diablo repos, most apps conflict with the os2008 feature upgrade19:13
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ShadowJKYou need to remove the fremantle repos, so that it doesn't try install dependencies from fremantle, which would conflict with os200819:13
TiagoTiagoHow hard would it be to make program that checks all the most common places things go wrong for issues and reports to the user what is wrong if it finds anything?19:14
DocScrutinizerchinook repos will probably conflict as well19:14
ShadowJKEven if you try install something in diablo repo, just having fremantle repos there would cause conflicts19:14
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AlmightyOatmealShadowJK: ah19:14
AlmightyOatmealdo you have a good repo list for the n810 with os2008?19:14
AlmightyOatmealotherwise i will grab my other list and strip out the fremantle and chinook repos19:15
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: how many idiots live on earth?19:15
ShadowJKI'd basically start by removing all non-nokia non-maemo.org and non-diablo repos...19:15
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AlmightyOatmealShadowJK: sounds good19:15
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ShadowJKbut then I'd add opera repo ;p19:16
AlmightyOatmealoh?19:16
DocScrutinizeryou can do that later19:16
DocScrutinizerfirst get a minimal repo list that actually *works*19:17
ShadowJKoh wait, maybe opera is in maemo extras19:17
DocScrutinizerit's not like adding repos later will per se break stuff, as long as the added repo(s) is/are OK for your system19:18
DocScrutinizerIOW there's nothing wrong with starting on a limited repo list19:18
ErwinJungejavispedro: Did you do anything special to the mupen64plus source from pandora? There's a 20110615 version on pandora and the current maemo version is 20110128. I'm willing to compile the new version myself, but just wondering about any changes you might have made.19:19
DocScrutinizerif later on you add a repo and encounter problems/conflicts, then double-check if the repo is actually meant to get used for your platform19:19
ShadowJKok, opera is in extras. Some old ancient version for fremantle is in opera's own repo.19:20
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javispedroErwinJunge: many, grab the source package19:20
TiagoTiagowhere does transitions tuner keeps the backup of transistions.ini?19:21
DocScrutinizerfind / -name '*transitions*'19:21
AlmightyOatmeali'm also running into the problem where the root partition seems to fill up rather quickly and doesn't seem to be utilizing the internal 2G memory card, i also have an additional 4G memory card19:22
DocScrutinizermaybe /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini.old /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini.default19:23
AlmightyOatmealis being primarily used up by libs.. is that normal for maemo? is there a way to clean this up, removing things that aren't used?19:23
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DocScrutinizerAlmightyOatmeal: known "problem" of diablo. You need to deal with it by manually installing / moving to the 2GB19:24
DocScrutinizeriirc19:24
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DocScrutinizerI think there may be wiki pages and/or tmo threads about it19:25
AlmightyOatmealDocScrutinizer: ah19:25
TiagoTiagoi checked the last modifed date and both transistions.ini and mce.ini haven't been modified, so i guess they aren't the ones getting in the way19:25
AlmightyOatmealwell if it's a known issue, i won't beat my head over it and will do some manual tweaking19:26
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DocScrutinizercheck for some howto on maemo.org19:26
TiagoTiagoWhen i power up my N900 it stays in the NOKIA screen with the status led holding that bluish white color for longer than usual and then after some time eventually the screen and the led go black and the device won't boot; does that narrows down the possible causes of the issue at all?19:27
AlmightyOatmeali can, but wouldn't be the first time i've done things like that. it's been nearly 10 years since i've used anything linux based though19:27
DocScrutinizerthere may be unusual problems with moving stuff to eMMC, as some of it is needed during bootup when eMMC isn't yet available19:27
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: no19:28
DocScrutinizerAlmightyOatmeal: maemo doesn't exactly follow FHS recommendations19:29
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DocScrutinizerso moving stuff from /usr/* to eMMC may well break boot19:29
AlmightyOatmealDocScrutinizer: silliness. i will consult the web for information then :)19:29
DocScrutinizer~optification19:29
DocScrutinizergrrr, what's up with infobot??19:30
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TiagoTiagoAny idea what i could look into to find what is preventing the device from booting?19:31
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AlmightyOatmealseems having the appropriate repos is helping o:)19:32
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: no. As mentioned some time back you got no other chance than reflashing if you got no clue why bootloop happens19:32
AlmightyOatmealTiagoTiago: if your device is failing to boot, does it come up far enough for you to ssh into? otherwise, iirc from information i have read, you may have to use the usb cable and reflash the device19:33
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: check df -h /19:33
DocScrutinizeror whatever maemo / is for your rescue-mounted rootfs19:33
TiagoTiagocan't find mount point19:34
TiagoTiagoi don't hink i could ssh into it, it doesn't autoconnect to wifi at the NOKIA screen does it?19:34
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TiagoTiagosame thing19:35
AlmightyOatmealdoes the N900 use the same ridiculously tiny barrel plug as the N810?19:35
TiagoTiagonope, usb19:35
TiagoTiagomicrousb actually19:35
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TiagoTiagothink*19:35
AlmightyOatmealoh, nice.. i read somewhere that the n810 can charge off usb as well19:36
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: didn't you say you got NIN101's rescue system running?19:36
TiagoTiagoyep19:36
DocScrutinizerso what's that nonsense about "can't ssh in" then?19:36
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TiagoTiagoi thought he meant to shh into the actual Maemo, not just read the files, i can read the files, but it's not running from it's Maemo19:37
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DocScrutinizeryou can check how much free space available on the mounted NAND maemo rootfs, in this rescue system, no?19:38
AlmightyOatmealhmm, pyRadio doesn't seem to be working19:38
TiagoTiagodunno, df is giving that error msg for both / and /mnt/maemo/19:38
DocScrutinizerinitrd-nin101# df -h /mnt/maemo-rootfs19:38
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AlmightyOatmealhmm, what is /mnt/initfs/dev/radio0?19:39
DocScrutinizerN800?19:39
TiagoTiagoit just calls it maemo19:39
AlmightyOatmealN81019:39
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DocScrutinizerbogus19:40
AlmightyOatmealpyRadio spits out: RuntimeError: the sip module implements API v8.0 but the PyQt4.QtGui module requires API v7.019:40
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AlmightyOatmealDocScrutinizer: oh, you were talking to TiagoTiago, my bad.19:41
DocScrutinizermy last 2 posts were to you: N800? bogus19:42
AlmightyOatmealDocScrutinizer: oh. it is the N810 and i stumbled upon that /mnt/initfs/dev/radio0 device and was wondering what it is19:42
TiagoTiagolast two? I'm confused now19:42
Sicelolol19:43
DocScrutinizer[2011-10-23 18:39:34] <DocScrutinizer> N800? [2011-10-23 18:39:42] <TiagoTiago> it just calls it maemo [2011-10-23 18:39:53] <AlmightyOatmeal> N810 [2011-10-23 18:40:43] <DocScrutinizer> bogus [19:43
TiagoTiagooh19:43
DocScrutinizererr19:43
DocScrutinizer[2011-10-23 18:39:08] <AlmightyOatmeal> hmm, what is /mnt/initfs/dev/radio0? [2011-10-23 18:39:34] <DocScrutinizer> N800?19:44
DocScrutinizer[2011-10-23 18:39:53] <AlmightyOatmeal> N810 [2011-10-23 18:40:43] <DocScrutinizer> bogus19:44
TiagoTiagoif i just do df it doesn't show any filesystems19:45
NIN101"dunno, df is giving that error msg for both / and /mnt/maemo/" :/  /etc/mtab... initrd... writeable19:45
* DocScrutinizer waves19:46
TiagoTiagodf doesn't work if the rootfs being used isn't writable?19:46
DocScrutinizerafk19:46
AlmightyOatmealTiagoTiago: df should still work19:47
NIN101that's a bug in rescueos.19:47
NIN101at least in the initrd image.19:47
TiagoTiagoi'm using the initrd thing, no memory card19:48
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TiagoTiagook19:49
TiagoTiagoany other way to check for the freespace in the Maemo rootfs with the initrd ROS?19:50
NIN101du -sh /mn/maemo should give the used space.19:51
TiagoTiago303.6M19:51
NIN101lol.19:52
robbiethe1stwouldn't df -h give a better representaton of actual free space>19:52
DocScrutinizer-x19:52
robbiethe1stafter all, the rootfs is compressed19:52
DocScrutinizer[2011-10-23 18:47:38] <AlmightyOatmeal> TiagoTiago: df should still work19:53
DocScrutinizer[2011-10-23 18:47:50] <NIN101> that's a bug in rescueos.19:53
TiagoTiagohow big is the rootfs chip again?19:53
robbiethe1st256mb19:53
TiagoTiagothat's not good 0.019:53
DocScrutinizerminus some other partitions19:53
TiagoTiagoHow could it get so big?19:54
TiagoTiagois it counting some files twice?19:54
DocScrutinizerrootfs                228M19:54
DocScrutinizersymlinks19:54
DocScrutinizercompression19:54
robbiethe1stexactly19:54
NIN101hm.19:55
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# du -shx /19:55
DocScrutinizer323M    /19:55
DocScrutinizerafk again19:56
robbiethe1sttry "df -h"...19:56
robbiethe1stanyway, bye.19:56
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* TiagoTiago sighs19:56
TiagoTiagois there a way to make du not follow links?19:57
TiagoTiagoor that is not the issue?19:58
DocScrutinizersee -x, see "compression"20:00
* DocScrutinizer frowns at <robbiethe1st> try "df -h"...20:00
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TiagoTiago-shx still says 303.620:01
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DocScrutinizervery simple: while echo "1234556778654242764276536425613651365" >> /mnt/maemo/junkfile-delete-me; do :; done20:03
DocScrutinizerls -l /mnt/maemo/junkfile-delete-me, rm /mnt/maemo/junkfile-delete-me20:03
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: [2011-10-23 18:55:45] <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# du -shx / [2011-10-23 18:55:45] <DocScrutinizer> 323M    /20:03
TiagoTiagothat will fill it up till it can't and then i check how big the file is?20:03
DocScrutinizeryes20:04
* NIN101 just created a fixed version20:04
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TiagoTiagowhere is the bigger-than character inside ROS?20:05
NIN101depends on your keyboard20:05
TiagoTiagoit's the english one20:06
TiagoTiagodunno if there is a more specific name20:07
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ShadowJK>20:09
DocScrutinizerlol20:09
TiagoTiagoNIN101: is the fixed version online already?20:10
NIN101TiagoTiago: uploading20:11
TiagoTiagocool20:11
TiagoTiagodid you include mc this time?20:11
NIN101no.20:12
TiagoTiagook20:12
TiagoTiagowith the english keyboard how can i type the > symbol in ROS? Does it got somthing like the Sym VKB?20:13
ShadowJK> "GREATER-THAN SIGN", › "single right-pointing angle quotation mark", 〉"right-pointing angle bracket", ⟩ "mathematical right angle bracket", 〉 "right angle bracket"20:14
NIN101sure. I guess you just have to search. that's the pain, there is only one map and afaik no localized are out there for the console.20:15
TiagoTiagois it avaiable with the default mapping that ROS uses?20:16
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NIN101yes, search where it is actually mapped...20:18
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NIN101http://216.189.8.164/N900/rescueOS/resos-0.4.img now up...20:19
TiagoTiagojust go pressing random key combinations?20:19
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NIN101yes.20:19
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TiagoTiagoalright, i didn't thought about the possibility some of the regular Fn+keys had been replaced, i though it was gonna be somewhere with Shift+FN or Control+Fn, the pipe is in place of the £ symbol (the z key) and < and > are Fn+Left and Right20:22
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TiagoTiagois it the one linked now at http://nin101.uni.cx/N900/rescueOS/ ?20:30
NIN101yes.20:30
TiagoTiagothe kernel is still the same, right?20:31
NIN101yes.20:32
TiagoTiagowhat happens if i forget to run the ubidettach or the umount commands before powering it down?20:33
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NIN101well20:34
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TiagoTiagoalright, df works, 78.2M avaiable in the maemo rootfs20:36
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NIN101try it :P. No, simply that's the recommeneded way to unmount that, usually you should be fine if you don't do it,  but simply run the unmount script, that's the clean way.20:39
TiagoTiagocan you add a shutdown script that does all the clean up so people can just type a single command and have it go down safelly?20:40
TiagoTiagoplease*20:41
NIN101yep, that's actually a plan.20:43
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TiagoTiago78M is enough freespace on rootfs?20:51
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Siceloyes20:53
Siceloi have 60.920:53
TiagoTiagoThen that isn't why i can't boot either...20:54
TiagoTiago:(20:54
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Sicelowish i could help. problem is some of the things causing your issue could have started long before you realize. especially if you don't boot frequently20:59
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TiagoTiagoHaving a list of things to check would already be a start21:02
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NIN101just reflash21:12
NIN101imho21:13
TiagoTiagoI would rather not have to reinstall everything all over again, just did that a couple weeks ago, spend over 2 days without sleep instaling stuff :(21:13
NIN101next time just make a backup of the list of installed programs :-).21:16
NIN101afaik the maemo backup utility does that, if not, dpkg --get-selections.21:16
TiagoTiagoAutomated installers doesn't seem to be able to handle the massive amount of shit i install, even in Synaptic i have to do it in small batches or else the device stops responding forever21:17
TiagoTiago:(21:18
Sicelowhat synaptic?21:18
TiagoTiagoIt's like the pro version of HAM21:19
Sicelomost of the guys u have been talking to all along really know what they are alking about (unlike me), so if they all agree on a reflash, starting now is best course of action21:21
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NIN101afk ; bbl21:23
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SiceloBacupMenu should be among your first apps21:23
TiagoTiagonot compatible with the techinique for booting from the emmc21:24
Sicelos/cup/ckup/21:24
Sicelooh21:24
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TiagoTiagoWithout that it would be an eternal struggle to keep rootfs clean21:25
* Sicelo kicks inf21:25
Sicelo:/21:25
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MohammadAGI don't have backupmenu :p21:27
AlmightyOatmealugh, i can't get pyRadio to work because libqt4-openlg is MIA21:28
Sicelo:)21:28
AlmightyOatmealopengl*21:28
AlmightyOatmealunless there is some other Pandora application available21:29
Sicelobut u know maemo better than most of us MohammadAG21:30
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AlmightyOatmeallibpythonqt4-opengl i believe21:31
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: BS, there's HAM for restoring things from backup app, and I can't see how it fails on any number of apps to reinstall21:33
TiagoTiagoNever worked for me21:33
TiagoTiagoHow many programs have you tried to install simultaneouslly?21:33
DocScrutinizerI guess an OTA SSU is about installing *all* apps in one session21:35
DocScrutinizerand they aren't installed "simultaneously" but one after the other21:35
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ErwinJungejavispedro: When I download the source of mupen64plus from the maemo packages website, it is an orig and a diff. I'm guessing the diff is your changes. Is there a way I can just swap out the orig source and rebuild a deb?21:35
javispedrothat is the idea21:36
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TiagoTiagoThat is with things made by Nokia, i'm talking about hundreds of programs made by all sorts of different people,  many just barelly ported, many poorly tested, and of course, there is that glitch where the device will freeze with intensive disk action21:36
ErwinJungeOk, cool. Any help with the commands? I can apply your diff to the new source without problems, but am lost on how to turn that into a deb21:37
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: ...and just in case we're (obviously) not talking about same thing: you noticed you can even deselect arbitrary apps from restore when doing that backup app restore HAM thing?21:37
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: but yeah, I noticed your tendency to do things in a "smarter" way than all of us here suggest to you21:38
TiagoTiagoThat still leaves me with fixing installs manually, and having to (de)select thigns one by one and all the waiting wondering if it crashed or if tomorrow it will have finished doing whatever is keeping it so busy it has a hard time even making the key clicks21:38
DocScrutinizerso what? go cry a bit?21:39
DocScrutinizerhere's nobody to help you out, as there's no way to help you out21:39
TiagoTiagoreflashing is for when you give up, it's not a solution to a problem, it's starting over,  if i can figure out how to fix things i rather21:40
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TiagoTiagoreflashing might be simple, but it's not necessarily smarter21:41
TiagoTiagosimpler*21:41
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ErwinJungeDocScrutinizer: Do you know how to swap out the original source in a deb and rebuild it?21:44
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TiagoTiagoWith reboot loops being so common, hasn't anyone copiled a small list of the most common causes?21:48
ShadowJKUnable to mount filesystems, error in configuration files or init scripts you've modified21:49
ShadowJKthe latter includes apps that meddle with them21:49
ShadowJKalso uninstalling vital components, like maemo-*pr*21:49
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TiagoTiagoThose sound a bit general, no files that get errors more commonly, or scripts that are the ones that go bad more often?21:51
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ShadowJKthey don't "go bad" by themselves21:51
DocScrutinizerErwinJunge: sorry, no21:52
TiagoTiagoI know, things aorund, users or programs, mess them up21:52
ShadowJKThe only common cause I can think of is when people think that fstab actually does something, or assume they can manually move random things away from rootfs onto emmc21:52
TiagoTiagobut i would expect some are more common than others21:52
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: don't forget custom kernels with modules written by devels with poor insight into system requirements and restrictions21:54
ShadowJKalso running "apt-get upgrade" :)21:54
DocScrutinizerindeed21:54
ShadowJK(or similar through synaptic/whatever)21:54
DocScrutinizerINDEED21:54
DocScrutinizerthe "better HAM" X-P21:55
MohammadAGHAM haters21:56
MohammadAGtry Cydia on the iPhone21:56
AlmightyOatmealBacon > HAM21:56
AlmightyOatmealo:)21:56
TiagoTiagolol21:56
MohammadAGSincerey, a pissed off user21:56
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DocScrutinizers/whatever/fapman/21:57
DocScrutinizeror "I uninstalled power kernel, now it doesn't boot anymore" XP21:58
MohammadAGthat's like I removed the battery it doesn't turn on anymore21:59
MohammadAGor I took out someone's brain and he turned into abill_uk21:59
DocScrutinizerand now the ABSOLUTE NUMBER ONE: <drums...>   **multinoot**21:59
DocScrutinizers/noot/boot/21:59
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I owe you one, for this laugh about abill22:00
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ErwinJungeSlightly relevant question: is dpkg -i <package> safe?22:07
ErwinJungeI figured out how to rebuild with new source, but now I have to install that deb ofcourse :)22:07
MohammadAGDEPENDS ON THE PACKAGE22:08
MohammadAGsorry caps22:08
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ErwinJungeMohammadAG: It's mupen64plus22:13
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kerioMohammadAG: YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT, FRIEND22:18
kerio</POLITE_ALLCAPS_GUY>22:18
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keithzghuh, irggu demands maemo-ringtones-mr0 as a dependency, but that's supposedly in the main repos . . . so why can't I see it, and why isn't it just automatically pulled in?22:33
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Sicelo_keithzg: it seems to be in nokia repo22:39
Sicelo_which means it should already be on your device. what error are u getting?22:39
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MohammadAGmr0 stands for global22:40
MohammadAGhe probably has a US variant, aka 00222:40
Sicelo_ah :)22:40
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keithzgI *thought* I had it set up as global, but I may have used the wrong file last time I reflashed22:41
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keithzgthat's a rather stupid dependency then, though...22:41
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DocScrutinizeryoh22:51
DocScrutinizermuch more stupid than you probably implied. Why would any app have a dependency to a certain set of **ringtones** ? :-o22:52
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, FYI the package contains no files afaik22:53
DocScrutinizerlol. even worse22:53
DocScrutinizerirggu (?) should provide a way user selects whatever she likes for ringtones. And if there *has* to be a default ringtone, irgru should ship that ringtone file in own pkg, not depend on rintones-mr0 or whatever22:55
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DocScrutinizerthough I really can'T see what forbids using the currently selected standard profile ringtone to get "hardlinked" rather than depending on some rintones-mr0 pkg22:57
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TiagoTiagoYou guys that understand more of these things, could take a look at the technique from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59374 (or rather the version from Pali mentioned in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=930141&postcount=139 ) and  try to figure out the steps i must take in order to set things again after a reflash without loosing the stuff inside the emmc copy?23:02
TiagoTiagoplease*23:03
kerioholy shit does the openpandora really have ctrl and alt between the analog sticks instead of near the keys? :\23:03
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keithzg_Tempted to try and just modify the irggu .deb to remove the dep...in the meantime I suppose I'll just use XChat, which has installed perfectly fine on every system I've had since the early 2000s, heh.23:12
keithzg_I remember the first time booting Knoppix and going "whoa, there's an mIRC-like client installed by default, AND it isn't nagging me to pay? Linux is awesome!" ;)23:14
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DocScrutinizeruse --force23:22
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UberNeoGuys ..please help me ..with my broken EMMC on N900 .. as I am getting the messages like mentioned in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=5050623:26
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jacekowskihave you tried flashing it?23:28
UberNeoI am able to flash the OS .. but after that automatic reboots ..and only pink icons .. with no proper characters23:28
jacekowskiwhat?23:28
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UberNeoflashed it many times23:28
jacekowskihow are you flashing it23:28
jacekowskiit shouln't reboot when you are doing it right23:29
UberNeoflasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f23:29
UberNeoremoving the battery23:29
jacekowskithat's emmc23:29
UberNeoand after tht reinserting the battery and sudo flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R23:29
jacekowskiwhat about cobined?23:29
jacekowskino23:30
jacekowskiyou do combined first23:30
jacekowskiand then emmc23:30
jacekowskiwithout reboot23:30
jacekowskiwithout -R23:30
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UberNeookk . lemme try ..23:30
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UberNeoRaw data transfer EP found at EP2. Using flashing protocol Mk II. SU_GET_UPDATE_STATUS_REQ terminated with error code 1.23:34
Sicelo_0.023:35
UberNeogetting this error . when I am trying to flash the EMMC image after the COMBINED IMage23:35
UberNeowithout reboot or any -R option23:35
jacekowskitry emmc first23:36
jacekowskibut that shouldn't cause any problems anyways23:36
UberNeoI always used to flash EMMC firsrt .. remove batery after that .. and then COMBINED with -R option23:37
UberNeoand it alyws flashes23:37
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UberNeoI removed the battery now .. and then try to flash the EMMC .. after reinserting the battery .. it got flashed now23:40
TiagoTiagodamn fridge can't make its mind and every now and then tries to turn jello into fruity icecubes :/23:41
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: there's nothing wrong with flashing eMMC first23:46
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: when UberNeo actually got a fried eMMC then there's just little he could do about it.23:48
DocScrutinizerUberNeo: just for my curiosity - did you overclock?23:48
UberNeoDocScrutinizer: no .. i didnt overcloked it ..23:48
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DocScrutinizerI hope for you still being covered by warranty23:49
UberNeojust one day .. it starts getting rebooted ... no space .. and Internal errors kinda measge23:49
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UberNeono Warrnty .. bought it over EBAY :(23:49
DocScrutinizeryay23:49
UberNeonow dmesg .. shows lots of errors messages like [ 892.505706] mmcblk0: error -110 transferring data, sector 58743105, nr 7, card status 0x200900 [ 892.505737] end_request: I/O error, dev mmcblk0, sector 58743105 [ 892.516876] mmcblk0: error -110 transferring data, sector 58743106, nr 6, card status 0x200900 [ 892.516906] end_request: I/O error, dev mmcblk0, sector 58743106 [ 892.528045] mmcblk0: error -110 transferring data, sector 587423:50
UberNeomany I/O errors23:50
UberNeoi tried using MEEGO over SD card .. but thats dammn slow :(23:51
dm8tbrCE boot from SD: first boot is slow, and if you don't use at least class 6 it is always slow23:51
DocScrutinizerI seem to recall I suggested to swap the eMMC, find a repair shop that'S equipped and experienced to do this sort of SMT repair23:51
UberNeoI mean .. is there no other way like finding the badblocks and just dont use those blocs23:52
UberNeoalready tried badblocks -w /dev/mmcblk0p2 many times23:53
DocScrutinizerno way to handle bad blocks from software side, it's all handled transparently by the MMC controller inside the card/chip23:54
UberNeoalso .. swapped the /dev/mmcblk0p2 by /dev/mmcblk0p1 making /dev/mmcblk0p2 as 27 GB23:54
jacekowskiwell, ext2/3 and some other filesystems can do badblocks and whatnot23:54
DocScrutinizerdoesn't help as the erase pages swap logical location all the time23:55
DocScrutinizerMMC controller does hidden remapping23:55
UberNeoand whenever I flash it .. it remain stable for some time.. and then after few mins .. all I/O messages in dmesg23:55
UberNeoany way to run MAEMO from SD card .. as we used to run Debian from SD card on Neo23:56
DocScrutinizertheoretically possible, with small tweaks in initscripts23:57
DocScrutinizeraiui this was "normal" on diablo/N8x023:58
UberNeoany pointers for doing this .. and wht version of Uboot will be required23:58
NIN101and with a different kernel configuration23:58
DocScrutinizerwell, meego uboot will load the /boot/vmlinuz kernel from uSD, no matter if that's the meego kernel/rootfs or the maemo rootfs with a kernel image created by some other means23:59

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