IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2011-10-04

fainabecause they're aliases to the current releases? they're symlinks to the current releases00:00
fainadebian releases are things like etch, lenny, etc. stable will point at them.00:01
fainaNot sure if its better to do the ubuntu -- run a script to update to latest version, or what I remember of debian, at some point they throw the symlink and an apt-get upgrade will replace half your system.00:02
amiconnThat's why you should use the release names in sources.list instead of the alias symlinks. It saves you from surprises00:03
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fainaIs there an inventory of how much of maemo is still closed source? I just learned about the cssu, and it seems like several large chunks have been replaced?00:04
mr_jrtQuite. I usually track testing though, so surprises are usually single-items like KDE3->400:05
mr_jrtYes.00:05
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NIN101http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages00:06
fainaNIN101: thank you00:06
mr_jrtNIN101 found the link beofre me ;)00:07
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fainais there a definition to the color code?00:08
mr_jrtI have vague plans to look at the rtcom stuff eventually.00:09
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fainaUpdating the bluetooth stack'd be nice, there's a bug somewhere in it that's preventing syncevolution from working.00:10
mr_jrtI think red is license issues and green is open replacement00:10
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fainaAh yes, they all say "LGPL" but no source.00:11
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rm_workwhat announcement were you talking about earlier? what did nokia do this time00:11
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Macermy buddy couldn't fix it00:17
Macerreflowing would melp plastic pieces around it00:17
hakkattakkis it recommended to install BackupMenu the first thing you do when you get the n900? I guess it is good to have if you "brick" the n900?00:17
Macermelt00:17
amiconnBwahaha. Maemo browser - open replacement: Fennec (with a ? though). Fennec is essentially unusable imo00:17
Macerand there is 0 space to work with to get the connector on00:17
Macerso i guess i will just ebay a new n90000:17
Macerthat sucks00:17
Siceloyes hakkattakk.00:18
Sicelobest approach actually, ssh too00:18
hakkattakkthen the PowerKernel? After that the CSSU?00:18
hakkattakk*Kernel Power00:19
Sicelothose are up to u. i'd say cssu has precedence over pk, depending on your needs00:19
Sicelo:/00:19
hakkattakkOk, so I will install it in this order: BackupMenu, CSSU, Kernel Power00:20
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SpeedEvilMacer: :/00:20
hakkattakkI guess that´s all the important stuff, after they are installed I can focus on the applications00:21
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MacerSpeedEvil: yeah suks00:21
Maceri will have to ebay a new one00:21
Macer:(00:21
Macerone ebay seller is selling it for 29900:21
Macerwith $50 for shipping!00:21
MacerWTF??00:21
hakkattakkoh my00:21
hakkattakkI bought mine for around 140$ with shipping00:22
Macereven fed ex next day from the arctic doesn't cost that much00:22
Maceri wanted a new one ;))00:22
Maceri'm a little weary of used ones00:22
hakkattakkah, I see00:22
Macerespecially with usb ports breaking off the damn things00:22
fainaI think ebay sellers make all their money off of shipping00:22
Macerfaina: that is retarded tho.. $50 is just unrealistic00:22
fainaSo, anyone want to port maemo to one of the android phones with unlocked bootloader?00:22
Maceri shipped mine for $700:22
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hakkattakkis it possible to fix the USB-port after it has bracking off?00:23
Macerhakkattakk: my buddy couldn't do it00:23
NIN101faina: no, short answer is: it's impossible00:23
Macerand he has a doctorate in electronic engineering00:23
hakkattakkdoh!00:23
Macerand millions of dollars of equipment at work00:23
Macerif he can't do it i can't really see anybody else being able to manage it00:23
hakkattakkmaybe i should soilder it before it happens then00:23
Maceryes you should00:23
Macerhe said use epoxy on it00:23
Macerinstead of solder00:24
Macerif it is new00:24
fainaNIN101: but cyanogenmod has a build environment for several phones... that produce useable kernels?00:24
SpeedEvilMacer: I've worked on similar sized hardware.00:24
Macerbut there was no way for him to repair it.... it is impossible00:24
SpeedEvilMacer: It's in the skills you have more than the equipment.00:24
Macerhe is very skilled00:24
SpeedEvilIf he's not been working on rework.00:24
Macertrust me.. he knows what he is doing... :)00:24
Macerhe said the design is horrible... and my pads were good.. he said there is 0 space and producing enough heat to reflow was melting plastics near the area00:25
Macerthere is 0 space to do anything since the connector sits right on top of the pads00:25
Macerso you can't even wire it up and work with it at all00:25
NIN101faina: the point are the closed bits of maemo and some assumptions about the hardware they do and other stuff, and if you replace them, you basically don't have maemo anymore...00:25
Macerbut.. yeah.. it is fail :) if i get a new one i am opening it up right away and putting epoxy all over the damn thing00:26
Maceri hoestly didn't even know n900s had this problem until it happened to mine00:26
Macerthen found out tons of them were doing it00:26
Macernokia fail00:26
fainaNIN101: ok. so it would be better to think of such a thing as "debian+hildon" then?00:27
Macer(amongst the many other failures of nokia)00:27
fainaMacer: so there's a way to reinforce the usb port?00:27
SiceloMacer: i think i agree with SpeedEvil. tmo has screenshots of many fixing their own00:27
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Sicelo-usbfix00:27
MacerSicelo: i think they didn't work00:27
Macer:)00:27
Macerfakes lol00:27
Sicelowhy i never remeber the shortcuts00:27
SpeedEvilIt is not trivial at all if you have not been actively involved in rework of SMD boards.00:27
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SpeedEvil~usbfix00:27
infobothmm... usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)00:27
Macerheh00:28
NIN101faina: probably if you have the driver (sources) and even then it's not easy.00:28
Maceri want to seal it for underwater :-P00:28
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SpeedEvilMacer: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sylgard-184-Solar-Cell-Panel-SILICONE-Encapsulation-Kit-/130429284542?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5e30f0be00:28
SpeedEvilThat should work well.00:29
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SpeedEvil(in reality, it may intefere with the antennas, not to mention the camera and slider)00:29
Macerlol00:31
Maceri was kidding ;)00:31
SpeedEvilI know, I happened to have it on my bookmarks00:32
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amiconnIf it's impossible to (re)solder the usb connector, how did they solder it in the first place?00:34
amiconn(aka there must be a way...)00:34
Macerthey didn't00:38
Macera machine did it for them00:38
Macer:)00:38
Macerand it was probably one of the first things to go onto the board00:38
Macersomebody at the chinese sweatshop that made it probably accidently hit the HTC button for the USB port machine and wound up making it at cheap quality00:39
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SpeedEvilThe boards are soldered by screening on  layer of solder paste through a stencil, placing the components, and then passing through a reflow oven00:41
SpeedEvilWith a second pass for components under the board00:42
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DocScrutinizerMacer: (producing enough heat to reflow was melting plastics near the area) haha, what plastic?00:43
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amiconnJudging from a pcb scan, resoldering the usb connector doesn't look too difficult to me00:46
Macerhttp://www.marketwatch.com/video/asset/nokia-aims-for-low-end-phones-2011-09-29/DA70F164-57AA-445E-8A5E-2468DED2E975#!DA70F164-57AA-445E-8A5E-2468DED2E97500:46
Macerwow00:46
Macerhow far from the top of the hill they have come00:46
amiconnThat i, not using reflow but manually, using a soldering iron with a fine tip00:46
Macernokia is selling phones to crack heads and pimps00:46
Macerso crackhead phones are called "feature phones" ?00:49
MacerLOL00:49
Macerwow00:49
DocScrutinizerMacer: ever pondered your "expert friend" maybe had no interest wasting his time on helping to fix the USB?00:49
MacerDocScrutinizer: possible00:49
Macerwho knows00:49
Maceri gave up anyways00:49
Macer:)00:49
DocScrutinizerthat's up to you, but please don't spread FUD here00:49
Maceri was just passing the word00:49
DocScrutinizer~usbfix00:49
infobothmm... usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)00:49
Maceri already saw that00:50
Macerif they got it to work then power to them00:50
Maceri doubt he was trying to get over on me :)00:50
Macernor do i doubt his abilities... who knows. maybe it was more damaged than i thought00:50
DocScrutinizerso fixing a broken USB clearly *IS* possible00:50
Maceri will believe it if i ever see it00:51
SpeedEvilThere are pics on the thread00:51
DocScrutinizerand it only needs moderate skills on a SMT board reworker metrics00:51
Macerposting a pic of something that might have been repaired is far from a personal experience00:51
SpeedEvilThe boards posted were clearly reworked00:51
Maceri could probably post a picture of myself on mars :)00:51
DocScrutinizerMacer: you're trolling - warning!00:52
MacerSpeedEvil: sure. i am sure the attempt was made00:52
MacerDocScrutinizer: no. i am not.00:52
Macermaybe a few lucky people were able to repair it00:52
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Maceri am sure most were not00:52
Macerand judging the way nokia handled it.... :) well. i love maemo but damn i sure wish it ran on something non-nokia00:53
DocScrutinizerI agree 99.8% of users don't have the skills to repair that00:53
MacerDocScrutinizer: 99.8 huh? :)00:53
Macerplus there is the added variable of how damaged the phone is00:53
Macerbut who knows. all i know is mine couldn't be repaired00:53
DocScrutinizerhere in this channel though it's more like 95%00:54
Maceri am debating if i should ebay one but my inner senses are saying no :)00:54
Macermaybe i will try to get a used one just to see if i don't get one with a port already broken off ebay00:54
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Macerbut wow that is a horrible flaw. did nokia even acknowledge a design flaw or just say all of them were from user abuse? :)00:55
fainaI think its a weakness of the micro-usb port.00:55
fainaOr at least that's my impression from http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/09/20/1249246/smk-toughens-up-those-tiny-micro-usb-connections00:56
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Maceranother way to make the same statement is "nokia used cheap parts" heh00:57
Macerah well. i will probably just try to find a good used one00:57
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Macerand hope it isn't totally screwed up .. i loved my n900 and that usb problem came as s shock00:57
DocScrutinizerI think it's a combination of a manufacturing issue that left a few devices with poorly soldered ports, plus a design flaw about the component not being through-hole type, plus a general flaw of micro-USB and the huge lever you get with those plugs00:57
Maceri took incredibly good care of it00:57
DocScrutinizerfaina: that article is rather BS marketing blabla though00:58
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Maceri am still laughing at nokia shifting its focus to "feature phones"00:59
fainaI was thinking that if they wanted to say their product fixes a problem, that implies that there is a problem00:59
DocScrutinizerthe main problem is that this particular receptacle component isn't thru-hole type00:59
Macerit is giving up on its ms line of phones alaready? maybe they will come with winmob :)00:59
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fainaMacer:  is there a link to an announcement?01:00
Macerdidn't i post it already?01:00
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Macerhttp://www.marketwatch.com/video/asset/nokia-aims-for-low-end-phones-2011-09-29/DA70F164-57AA-445E-8A5E-2468DED2E975#!DA70F164-57AA-445E-8A5E-2468DED2E97501:00
DocScrutinizerfaina: there obviously is a problem, but the particular problem with N900 isn't targeted by that smk component01:00
fainaah there it is... i missed it while i was working.01:00
DocScrutinizernot directly01:00
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MacerDocScrutinizer: either way. they should have recalled. but considering that nokia is badly on the ropes i culd see why they did not01:01
Macernot to mention the n8|9xx didn't really have much by way of nokia support to begin with01:01
fainaIts kind of weird watching a company flail around completely aimlessly.01:02
DocScrutinizerno manuf ever recalls unless there's hazard for life and health01:02
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kerioDocScrutinizer: even then...01:04
keriosomething something fight club something something01:05
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DocScrutinizerplus I think you have as little a good statistic number of failure percentage as I do. But I'm rather sure for N900 the number of users that will come to tmo and shout and bitch after facing such a problem is way higher than average. So if there are 1000 reports of broken USB on tmo and there's maybe 1mio of sold N900, I'd agree with Nokia there's no problem at all01:06
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Macerhaha01:07
Macermake many. if break. replace. if out of warranty. fk off.01:07
Macer:)01:07
DocScrutinizernow the number of reports is way less than 100001:07
kerioDocScrutinizer: i just want nokia to repair my n900 :(01:08
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DocScrutinizerMacer: on embedded even 10% warranty events are not unheard and not yet really a big thing01:08
Macerwhat really sucked is i just got my su8w working perfectly on it when it broke. i was so excited about the newfound glory my n900 found01:09
Macerheh01:09
Macerah well. i will see if i can find a used one that isn't a lemon01:09
Macerand solder the hell out of the port01:09
DocScrutinizergood plan01:09
Macergiant globs all over the place :)01:09
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Macermaybe some duct tape01:09
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DocScrutinizer???01:09
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DocScrutinizerI know duct tape and wd40 are fixing everything, but are you sure it's duct tape and not wd40 here? ;-P01:11
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* amiconn should probably check the usb port of his N900 at least01:11
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Macer:)01:11
DocScrutinizeramiconn: disassembling and a close inspection might be a worthwhile enterprise01:12
DocScrutinizerone of my devices actually has pretty poor soldering on at least one of the 4 mech support posts (still OK though, and I'm using it every day)01:13
amiconnNo problems so far here either, at least concerning the USB01:13
DocScrutinizerthen when you already got it disassembled and ever did some electronics soldering in your life, you probably want to do the preventive fix anyway01:13
Macerwow. the captain from babylon 5 is in tron legacy?01:13
* amiconn 's N900 has a scratch it the left part of the screen's top layer01:13
* SpeedEvil uses a screen protector.01:14
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Maceryeah. i put a sscreen protector on mine right away too01:14
amiconnThat's from slipping while trying to plug it into the charger01:14
Macerthe n900s screen was not very.. scratch proof.. but no phones are :)01:14
amiconnOtherwise, no scratches01:14
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amiconnI don't like those screen protectors01:15
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Macerbetter to have them then to not01:15
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SpeedEvilamiconn: I've before now put the seccateurs in the wrong pocket, and bent up and down a couple of hundred times.01:15
SpeedEvilYou could barely see the screen01:15
amiconnIn this case a screen protector probably wouldn't have helped01:15
DocScrutinizer(slipping while trying to plug it into the charger) what? :-o01:15
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SpeedEvilBut it was pristine ater swapping the protector01:16
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amiconnDocScrutinizer: Yes, with the micro usb plug. It's a good scratch tool :\01:17
DocScrutinizero.O01:17
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DocScrutinizeri... can't even imagine... how you usually plug in the charger01:18
amiconnFrom the left?01:18
Maceryou hang the plug on the wall and try to throw it in01:18
DocScrutinizersounds like, yeah01:18
Macerlol01:18
Macertron uses solarOS01:18
Macer:)01:18
SpeedEvilI feel for the logo, and then plug it in carefully01:18
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Macersolaros 4.0.1 .. from teh "command prompt01:19
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DocScrutinizerhell, the screen is even on another side than the receptacle01:19
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DocScrutinizerand no matter how you **slip** on plugging in the plug (con't figure how you could slip at all on that), you impossibly wll hit the screen unless you do a 90° bend down on your way to slip away01:20
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DocScrutinizersounds like "I hit my own eye when I tried to insert the key to the door lock"01:21
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SpeedEvilSometimes your fingers get elite skills when it comes to screwing stuff up.01:22
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DocScrutinizerone thing's for sure: the N900 USB receptacle isn't made to survive those artistic stunts for long01:23
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Sazpaimon_I believe that I have successfully made a gcc 4.4 toolchain for scratchbox to target maemo07:27
Sazpaimon_Im unpacking the rootstrap and installing the sdk on it now07:28
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polar_cactusHi all, I'm trying to upload my first project in the garage (git)...07:59
polar_cactusHas anybody tried vcs.maemo.org/git?08:01
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BrianB_Just got an  N900 and would like to know what is the best/preferred app to use for rss?08:05
fainaBrianB_: I'm using grr, but its tied to google reader08:08
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BrianB_faina: Thank you.08:18
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woldrichis there a game like pipe mania ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yutgiwhMKlU ) for maemo or will I have to emulate?08:38
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Sazpaimon_ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.08:42
Sazpaimon_what the08:42
fainaSazpaimon_: fakeroot does a lot of LD_PRELOAD tricks to make things look like you're running as root.08:46
Sazpaimon_faina, I understand that, but why am I getting this error08:47
Sazpaimon_its preventing dh_testroot from suceeding08:47
fainawhat environment are you running on?08:48
slonopotamuswoldrich: pipepanic? (didn't look at your link)08:48
Sazpaimon_scratchbox, custom toolchain I made08:48
Sazpaimon_I followed the old instructions at http://maemo.org/development/sdks/pre_alpha_installation/#manualinstall to get the maemo environment set up with it08:49
Sazpaimon_its all working except this fakeroot error08:49
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Sazpaimon_hmm looks like echo 4096 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr fixed it08:51
fainahuh...08:51
slonopotamusfor anyone willing to give a new life to n8x0: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1102224&postcount=3008:52
fainaI built my scratchbox environment from the harmattan sdk, and then install fremantle rootstraps into it08:52
Sazpaimon_faina, the harmattan sdk uses hardfp08:54
Sazpaimon_i dont think binaries will be compatible on an N90008:54
Sazpaimon_not to mention the eglibc version08:54
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woldrichslonopotamus, it's not in the repos? I found evilplumber, it claims to be something similar08:55
fainaSazpaimon_: I'm checking now.08:56
woldrichslonopotamus, oh jesus, it was horrible08:58
woldrichperhaps I should  just setup uae08:58
fainabuilt hello world, copied to n900, it ran.08:59
fainaI used harmattan to create scratchbox, but used the fremantle rootstrap and devkits.08:59
woldrichIs there some good audio visualization software? I'd love to get projectm working but it doesn't seem easy08:59
Sazpaimon_faina, weird, I decided to play it safe and build my toolchain using the same eglibc version and settings that the default scratchbox toolchain uses09:01
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fainaIs there any docs on how to create new rootstraps/devkits for scratchbox?09:02
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CableTwitchI wish there was a decent alternative to MicroB... why does it kill itself so easily?09:21
hiemanshuCableTwitch: midori?09:22
CableTwitchWhatnow?09:22
CableTwitchIsn't that a drink?09:22
hiemanshunope09:22
hiemanshuits a lightweight browser09:22
CableTwitchLightweight in what way?09:23
hiemanshucheck it out09:23
CableTwitchAnd can it be installed easily? I'm useless still when it comes to buggering about with the CLI09:24
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hiemanshuwell IIRC yes09:25
CableTwitchWell, I'll have a looksee. I just want something that isn't going to get confused loading more than 2 pages at a time.09:26
CableTwitchAnd isn't dog slow (Firefox)09:26
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DocScrutinizermhm midori. Been a nice browser on SHR/gta0209:31
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DocScrutinizerbut honestly available RAM and contemporary web page design make it seem wiser to never open more than one page concurrently on N90009:33
DocScrutinizerooh, and moo09:34
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DocScrutinizerSazpaimon_: funny enough binaries for "simple" things are actually compatible between fremantle and harmattan. Basically all that is cli-based and doesn't need floating point calculations09:36
DocScrutinizerno problem to install and use things like less etc from N900 on N95009:37
* mece hates shitty js on web.09:37
DocScrutinizersame here09:37
meceperhaps because all my computers are ancient pieces of crap09:38
meceexcept my N95009:38
mecethat's pretty new09:38
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DocScrutinizermeh, my dualcore 1.8GHz + 2GB should suffice for pretty much all arbitrary web content to be found anywhere, but it SUCKS. Would suck as well on 18GHz+20GB octocore09:42
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DocScrutinizerit's the FRIGGIN WEB-"PROGRAMMERS" that shit a pile on js on their "ACME Web2.oh" pages, then mess with it until it somewhat works on their particular browser and hw (of course run from their local HDD) and then even ask to get paid for that abomination09:45
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hiemanshuI have a quad core 3.0 ghz, 8G of RAM, I have Chromium open with 60 odd tabs09:45
DocScrutinizermhm, so what?09:46
hiemanshuworks just fine :P09:46
DocScrutinizermhm, so what?09:46
hiemanshu<DocScrutinizer> meh, my dualcore 1.8GHz + 2GB should suffice for pretty much all arbitrary web content to be found anywhere, but it SUCKS. Would suck as well on 18GHz+20GB octocore <---- replying to this remark09:46
DocScrutinizeryou're not really asking me to give you a URL pointing to a page that sucks for your superduper hw as well?09:47
hiemanshudoes it have flash? :P09:47
DocScrutinizerFUCK FLASH!09:47
hiemanshuofc, fuck flash09:47
hiemanshunone of my 60 tabs have flash09:47
hiemanshuso it works09:47
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* amiconn wonders what exotic web pages DocScrutinizer is referring to09:48
DocScrutinizeridiots using flash for menues for the mere shits and giggles should get shot!09:48
hiemanshuIdiots using flash for tabs, because they cant understand how to use divs09:48
dm8tbrfphover FTW!09:50
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DocScrutinizeramiconn: e.g developer.nokia.com than has issues with login as soon as you change your cookie mgmt away from ootb standards, loads 150 pictures for each shitty new webpage (mind you loading 150 images is slow via medium grade dsl even on 3GHz 8GB hw!)09:50
DocScrutinizerthen uses js for no good reason etc pp09:51
amiconndeveloper.nokia.com loads nice & quick for me. No login there, so can't test further09:52
DocScrutinizerpfff09:52
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amiconnIt's acktually okay even on N90009:53
amiconn*actually09:53
DocScrutinizerI guess you're also using a 5GHz quad core with hyperacmeGPU-graca_overclocked and 16GB, of course with a 50GB cable the to internertz09:54
amiconn(using opera mobile)09:54
amiconnMy laptop (where I tried it first) is a 2.4GHz Core2 Duo, 4 GB RAM09:54
DocScrutinizeralso seems your metrics for "fast and nice" obviously differs from mine - are you web-"programmer"?09:54
amiconnWell on the laptop it loads in 1-2 seconds09:55
amiconnN900 needs about 1509:55
DocScrutinizerMUHAHAHAHA09:55
DocScrutinizerso much for "fast and nice"09:55
amiconn1-2 seconds is fast & nice for a whole page in my book09:56
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: I did web programming for quite a bit of time09:56
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amiconnCompleting the specs, the laptop just runs chipset graphics, and my internet connection is 25/5 Mbps vds209:59
DocScrutinizerloading developer.nokia.com: loading 162 pictures (which takes quite some time via my "slow" 2gb DSL), loading and starting js, and if you're unlucky even flash advertisments.  compare ct.de which takes a third of the time10:00
DocScrutinizeramiconn: ooh only 25Mbps, I see10:01
amiconnWhat are advertisements? ;)10:01
amiconnadblock ftw10:01
DocScrutinizerHAHAHAHAHA10:01
fainaI thought I saw an argument that a lot of internet slowness is due to overloaded ad servers10:01
DocScrutinizercaching on local HDD ftw EH?10:01
luke-jr"Get all the information you need to port your applications from Qt to Windows Phone and from iOS and Android to Qt."10:02
luke-jrwtf?10:02
fainawhere "internet" actually ment "web"10:02
luke-jrwhy the heck would anyone port from iOS/Android to Qt at this point?10:02
fainaluke-jr: maybe they built qt for windows phone?10:02
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luke-jrfaina: IIRC, part of their agreement with Microsoft was that they would NOT port Qt to WinPhone10:03
luke-jrand if they did, they wouldn't be saying port from Qt to WinPhone :P10:03
DocScrutinizerif you need another url that *really* sucks, by all metrics: o2.de10:03
DocScrutinizerI'd not be surprised if MSIE and FF on windows were the only two browsers and only platform where that page renders correct and is actually usable10:04
DocScrutinizerenough of ranting, have a few things in RL to sort... cya10:05
fainaluke-jr: I'm baffled at why nokia is flailing so incoherently.10:05
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: works fine in Konqueror10:08
amiconnThehe, that one's even faster than developer.nokia.com. Loads in a second on desktop & laptop10:08
amiconnN900 gives me the mobile version, also fast enough but of course not comparable10:09
CableTwitchAhh, I see foaming over web pages.10:09
CableTwitchMust be that time of the month again :O)10:10
amiconnSo far the only cases of annoying web page slowness (on non-mobile) I've experienced were caused by overloaded servers. hp.com download pages do this often10:12
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CableTwitchMm, Flash. I guess I'm less biased against it, seeing as Albino Black Sheep is a favourite site of mine. And I'm evidently immune to adverts and the like that ustilise Flash, as I barely notice them these days.10:12
CableTwitchSlow pages... First World Problem.10:13
CableTwitchAll it takes is a bit of patience.10:13
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DocScrutinizeramiconn: you're out! 25Mbps downstream, c'mon your results are simply irrelevant for 95% of "normal" users10:17
CableTwitchNo 'normal' users in HERE, Doc ;O)10:19
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fainaNobody but us mutants.10:19
DocScrutinizerhaha, yeah "can't see any wrong rendering - I'm blind"10:20
CableTwitchMicroB sometimes eats the formatting on El Reg.... most of the time it does it correctly. Some wiki also have this issue.10:20
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amiconnpfft10:27
DocScrutinizeryou're aware there are still 5..10% of users that are not able to get anything better than ISDN 64kbps? Exactly those that are NOT living in or next to a city10:27
amiconnMy hardware is nowhere near the hyper-mega stuff you claimed though10:27
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amiconnI didn't even get the vdsl because of the downstream, but rather because of the upstream.10:28
amiconnLack of upstream was what annoyed me with my previous connection (plain adsl 3072/384 kbps)10:29
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woldrichsdlmame works perfectly on the n900. This has to impress my girlfriends10:29
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DocScrutinizeramiconn: which been only 50% better than what I got here10:30
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DocScrutinizeramiconn: honestly, you're out! ;-D10:31
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CableTwitchEh, Doc is just jealous XD10:37
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CableTwitchI got 20mbit ADSL at home, and due to my proximity to the exchange, I get almost all 20mbit down.10:37
CableTwitchUpstream is crap though. Not even half-meg.10:38
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* amiconn ponders upgrading to 50/1010:40
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CableTwitchThat's be nice. If only.10:41
amiconnWell according to the fritzbox, the line maxes out at 80/25 or so10:42
amiconnAnd 25/5 -> 50/10 means +5 €/month10:43
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CableTwitchAhh, infinitely more expensive/elusive here in the UK.10:44
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amiconnWell that's just the upgrade, in case it wasn't clear10:45
CableTwitchYeah, I meant it's expensively expensive for a line of that speed here.10:46
CableTwitchWe run an ancient and odd infrastructure here still.10:46
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ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/04/patent_troll_targets_end_users/12:35
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DibblahHeh. Looks like the gas gauge chip gets rather confused by side-charging the battery :)13:18
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SpeedEvilUnless you charge ti through the normal circuitry, it's not going to notice the charging at all.13:24
SpeedEviland will think it's attached to an infinite battery.13:24
SpeedEvilIf it gets down t the learn threshold, then it will learn up capacity 1/8th a time towards infinity13:25
CableTwitchI'd love an infinite battery.13:25
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CorsacCableTwitch: a *charged* infinite battery though13:37
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SpeedEvilI don't want an infinite battery. Just one weighing a ton or so, which can convert at the rate of a kilo a second or so.13:48
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Sazpaimon_does the autobilder use gcc 4.2?18:38
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Sazpaimon_if so, how do I submit an application I built with gcc 4.4, the only compiles on gcc >=4.418:38
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Sazpaimon_hey DocScrutinizer, maybe you know this18:45
Sazpaimon_what gcc does the autobuilder use18:45
DocScrutinizernfc, sry18:45
MohammadAGanyone know Java?18:45
MohammadAGI need someone to help with some Android code18:45
DocScrutinizer*burp*18:46
MohammadAGit's the only hint I found at querying the local bus website18:46
MohammadAGthere's no documented API for it18:46
merlin1991MohammadAG: hit me18:49
* MohammadAG hits merlin1991 18:49
merlin1991lmao, you knew what I mean :D18:49
MohammadAGcourse, PM :P18:50
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SpeedEvilI note that the UK rail company really got pissy at a lot of people using an 'open' API with no permission18:52
SpeedEvilEventually pulled it, and requred authentication, with silly T&Cs18:52
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MohammadAGpretty sure the company doesn't know what an API is19:00
DocScrutinizerAPI or AP?19:01
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, API19:04
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DocScrutinizeruhuh19:05
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vdvhi all19:57
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vdvis dual booting of meego which is installed on internal mmc and maemo possible?19:57
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vdvor nitdroid with maemo19:58
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* zogg_ waves at #maemo22:08
Sicelo\022:08
* faina waves back22:08
zogg_hey faina, howdy?22:09
zogg_Sicelo, \o/22:09
fainahello22:09
zogg_MohammadAG, q22:09
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fainaI'm wasting time waiting to see if I fixed a bug in some slow running code22:10
ZogGwhat bug and what code?22:10
fainawork.22:10
MohammadAGa?22:10
ZogGMohammadAG sup, long time no talk22:10
fainaanalyzing sequencer result files, and I'd made an assumption about file name formats that'd changed.22:11
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fainaI created a small test case, updated the code for the test case and got that working. Now I see if it can actually scan the real data.22:11
ZogGfaina, is it just nickname or name? and what time is it there if you still at work?22:12
fainanic22:12
fainaI'm in GMT-7/822:12
ZogGfaina is common female name, that's why i asked22:12
fainanot here in the US22:12
vdvvery dissappointed with my n900...22:12
ZogGMohammadAG, have you started to study already?22:12
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ZogGvdv, give it to me than22:13
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MohammadAGZogG, yeah :)22:13
ZogGkhertan, hey buddy, sup22:13
ZogGMohammadAG where and what? tehnion? computer science?22:13
ZogGslonopotamus, privet medved =)22:13
vdvZogG, will i become something instead of it?22:14
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slonopotamusZogG: zdraste :-/22:14
MohammadAGZogG, mchena atm22:14
ZogGvdv, you'll become great wizard, if i understood your question right22:14
ZogGMohammadAG, what about psyco?22:14
ZogGand hebrew?22:15
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MohammadAGwell, that's the mchena22:15
vdvZogG, that was receive..22:16
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vdvi just miss up german and english words (bekommen == receive)22:16
ZogGMohammadAG for hebrew? or mehina is psyco?22:16
MohammadAGhebrew22:16
vdv*mess up22:16
ZogGvdv sorry pal, ich nicht shprehen ze duetch, but if you want to give me your n900 as present i'll be more than glad22:17
ZogGMohammadAG what about psyco?22:17
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ZogGbtw can someone explain why tizen and not meego2?22:18
fainaZogG: IMO our corporate masters are insane22:18
slonopotamuspolitics, i think22:18
fainaor at least directionless22:19
ZogGi just don't get it, jumping from place to place22:19
MohammadAGZogG, screw that, mer's back22:19
ZogGthey are losing money already, why would they spend more?22:19
fainaIMO, Intel desperately needs a OS that can run on intel chips, Android seems tied to ARM. So they went hunting for a partner22:19
ZogGMohammadAG, mer is not enduser22:19
MohammadAGtalk to elop22:19
MohammadAGMeeGo was enduser?22:20
fainait was the goal.22:20
MohammadAGwhich platform had MeeGo on it?22:20
slonopotamusso... $100 for porting tsc2301 driver onto 2.6.38 :) who'll give a bigger bid?22:20
MohammadAGfaina, in reality, was it gonna achieve the goal?22:20
fainaMohammadAG: beats me. All I can see is intel that intel is probably worried that all the growth is in the mobile market, and they're not shipping any chipsets there22:21
ZogGbut mer is doesn't have vendor, that's my point22:21
MohammadAGusers wouldn't have been interested in MeeGo if it hadn't been for Swipe22:21
MohammadAGand that's Harmattan, not MeeGo22:21
MohammadAGZogG, MeeGo did, did it have any devices?22:21
ZogGand untill someone do release phone with it, it has nothing to do with non devs =(22:21
fainaOriginal linux started out as a thing you used to replace your default OS with. It looks like we're going back to that place for the mobile world22:22
ZogGMohammadAG, harmattan was bsed on meego or am i wrong?22:22
MohammadAGtrue, but was it MeeGo?22:22
ZogGfaina, the problem is closed phones and drivers22:22
fainaZogG: as far as I could tell is it was a hybrid. used some meego libraries but packages like maemo22:22
wmaroneharmattan was not meego22:22
MohammadAGit was far from MeeGo22:23
fainaZogG: look at all the work that was done reverse engineering drivers in the PC/Laptop world.22:23
MohammadAGthe only common factor would be libmeegotouch22:23
ZogGanyway i want some os tht actually running on phones22:23
ZogGnatively22:23
MohammadAGiOS22:23
ZogGi have iphone22:23
MohammadAGactually22:23
MohammadAGall OSs run natively on phones22:23
ZogGi cn switch it with you for n95022:23
MohammadAGI'd like an HTML5 kernel, would be interesting22:24
MohammadAGI don't have my N95022:24
wmaroneZogG: maybe samsung will do something not stupid and release hardware for this platform we can work with. Who knows.22:24
ZogGlet me correct myself i want linux os running on my phone22:24
ZogGand android is not linux =)22:24
MohammadAGtechnically, it is, linux is just a kernel22:24
fainahttp://wiki.debian.org/Mobile22:24
ZogGwmarone, i don't have that much money to buy phone every month just to check if it will be supported and has any future22:24
ZogGfaina nothing there22:25
ZogGMohammadAG you know what i mean22:26
fainaZogG: I want a posix-like linux environment on my phone too.22:26
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slonopotamusZogG: the problem is a lack of software22:26
ZogGit's a pitty i couldn't get hp touchpad22:26
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fainathe debian wiki points to a few projects that may or may not actually run on a phone.22:26
MohammadAGslonopotamus++22:26
MohammadAGand the lack of APIs doesn't help22:26
ZogGslonopotamus btw it Daniel ported funtoo on it =)22:27
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fainaMohammadAG: isn't it more there are too many half-finished APIs?22:27
ZogGi'll end up buying android phone22:27
fainagtk, qt, qt-declarative...22:27
MohammadAGfaina, not those APIs22:27
MohammadAGusually apps are for something like a service22:27
MohammadAGWhat's missing? closed apps22:27
fainaZogG: there's a handful of android phones that have unlocked boot loaders. Which would at least allow you to switch to something more open.22:28
ZogGclosed apps are fun, isn't it?22:28
slonopotamusMohammadAG: apis are less relevant. linux has at least three ui libs, but no single working mobile ui.22:28
MohammadAGpeople are buying iPhones for apps like Viber, Whatsapp22:28
MohammadAGslonopotamus, you clearly haven't used libmeegotouch then22:28
ZogGfaina, but drivers and support22:28
ZogGandroid is what it is coz of Google22:28
fainaZogG: Have you seen cyanogenmod?22:29
MohammadAGI was referring to web service APIs22:29
ZogGcoz they know to promote and support22:29
MohammadAGShazam's missing, there's no API22:29
ZogGfaina, yes22:29
MohammadAGWhatsapp, it's built on XMPP, but no API22:29
MohammadAGViber, closed crap, no API22:29
slonopotamusMohammadAG: "lib" in its word is a hint to me22:29
MohammadAGslonopotamus, Harmattan's UI works fine22:29
ZogGMohammadAG, whatsapp is not free anymore22:29
ZogGand viber wouldn't be for a long time i think22:29
slonopotamusMohammadAG: works fine where? in harmattan;22:29
MohammadAGit's free for Symbian uses22:29
slonopotamus?22:29
fainaI think there are drivers available for some phones.22:29
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MohammadAGslonopotamus, yes22:30
fainaThough it might be like the nightmare of 3d drivers on desktop linux22:30
ZogGfaina, think twice22:30
ZogGor optimus nightmare for laptops =)22:30
slonopotamusMohammadAG: that's the point. there is no such thing as a standalone "Harmattan UI". there's "Harmattan UI as a part of Harmattan OS"22:30
MohammadAGthere's hildon, no one worked on it22:31
ZogGMohammadAG, it was free for iOS for a while too22:31
slonopotamusyep. and maybe it was wrong.22:31
MohammadAGpeople still use it over free XMPP22:31
ZogGMohammadAG, there is a good reason for that22:32
ZogGcommon user doesn't care or knows what is XMPP22:32
ZogGhe want app that works22:32
ZogGwhen it's not other client22:32
MohammadAGFacebook chat?22:33
MohammadAGit's XMPP based22:33
ZogGbut app that makes everything for you you just sent msgs22:33
slonopotamushttps://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon/hildon is it fremantle hildon?22:33
ZogGand i mean no need in registration and various clients22:33
ZogGjut one client that works on all devices and knows if your friends have it22:33
MohammadAGI guess we could hit Whatsapp22:34
MohammadAGI wonder if the idea's patented22:34
ZogGwhat exactly?22:35
ZogGviber is the same22:35
ZogGand talkbox22:35
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MohammadAGanyone wanna set up an XMPP server that's free and uses numbers as usernames?22:35
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slonopotamusnumbers suck22:35
slonopotamus:P22:35
ZogGslonopotamus, end user wouldn't know22:36
MohammadAGthat's how Whatsapp works :p22:36
MohammadAGenter your phone number22:36
slonopotamusZogG: icq users do.22:36
MohammadAGit runs through your contact list22:36
MohammadAGsees which numbers it has on the server, and shows them in the UI22:36
ZogGslonopotamus, you didn't get, there is difference between to get number as nickname or to use indefication as phone number, as[ecially as it runs on phone22:37
MohammadAGonly concern for me is verification22:37
MohammadAGsending SMSs for registration is costly22:37
ZogGMohammadAG, use email instead22:38
ZogGMohammadAG, use gtalk as base at all so no need in server22:38
MohammadAGand that confirms it's your number how?22:38
MohammadAGwhat prevents me from using your number and sending messages to your gf so she breaks up with you?22:39
ZogGtricky question =)22:39
ZogGyou had to ruin everything ah?22:39
ZogGMohammadAG, she wouldn't =P22:39
MohammadAGthere's a reason whatsapp confirms your number22:39
MohammadAGZogG, not after what you said to her22:40
ZogGshe knows i have some dudes over internet that can joke22:40
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MohammadAGwhat if you say I'm breaking up with you22:40
MohammadAGshe wouldn't know it's a dude over the internet22:40
MohammadAGit's your number22:40
ZogGshe is from yamen and has no understanding in computers22:40
ZogGMohammadAG, i have an idea22:41
ZogGyou use whatsapp as registration approval22:41
ZogG=)22:41
MohammadAGwow, that works on Harmattan how?22:42
MohammadAGwe're back to step 122:42
ZogGyou need to have two phones =)22:42
ZogGit would be migration from old phone22:42
ZogGanyway n9 is for geeks22:43
ZogGor ucan try to email whatsapp devs22:43
MohammadAGN9's for geeks?22:45
MohammadAGyou're very wrong22:45
MohammadAGgeeks would hate the N922:45
MohammadAGthe N9's your typical phone22:45
MohammadAGit's no N90022:45
fralstss22:48
fralsim a geek and i love the n922:48
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Sazpaimon_Anyone here familliar with pulseaudio codin23:12
Sazpaimon_g23:12
Sazpaimon_I have a program that's using pa_stream_begin_write and pa_stream_cancel_write as well as PA_CONTEXT_NOFLAGS23:12
Sazpaimon_none of these exist in maemo's PA23:12
Sazpaimon_is there a workaround that anyone knows?23:12
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merlin1991MohammadAG: what's the problem with sms?23:27
merlin1991the only thing is you'd need local numbers in each country23:28
MohammadAGmerlin1991, yeah...23:29
MohammadAGcan you afford that?23:29
merlin1991well no, but I bet if we do that within the mamemo community we could get lines in a few countries23:30
merlin1991like I can'T afford lines everywhere, but donate the austrian one to the project would be possible23:30
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