IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-09-25

DocScrutinizer	quite common problem with NAT	00:00
corecode	i thought so too	00:00
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corecode	but even with a public IP it doesn't work	00:00
DocScrutinizer	inbound datastreams fail	00:00
corecode	although a firewall might have been in place	00:01
ruskie	even public ips can have nat infront	00:01
ruskie	my cellco has that infact	00:01
DocScrutinizer	public IP behind a NAT? or plain direct net access?	00:01
corecode	what does it translate then to?	00:01
ruskie	no clue	00:01
corecode	ok	00:01
ruskie	but that's the info I got from them	00:01
ruskie	their tech people at that	00:01
corecode	well, the odd thing is that it used to work	00:01
corecode	and suddenly it doesn't anymore	00:01
corecode	on different networks	00:01
ruskie	when I was figuring out why stuff worked on one sime but not on the other	00:02
ruskie	turned out they had something setup wrong on the one that was working(i.e. inbound connections worked)	00:02
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corecode	gmail<>gmail seems to work	00:03
DocScrutinizer	could you by any chance try SIP	00:03
ruskie	last I checked jingle worked with sip	00:03
DocScrutinizer	nfc what jingle is and how that's related	00:04
corecode	sip works	00:04
ruskie	jingle is just used to setup the session	00:04
ruskie	DocScrutinizer, jingle is the stuff that is used to do voice chat on xmpp	00:04
corecode	jingle is the xmpp protocol i think	00:04
ruskie	xmpp protocol is the xmpp protocol	00:04
DocScrutinizer	orly?	00:04
ruskie	it setups an out-of-band channel to chat	00:04
DocScrutinizer	for me SIP is SIP	00:05
ruskie	https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Jingle_(protocol)	00:05
DocScrutinizer	or	00:05
DocScrutinizer	~rfc SIP	00:05
corecode	yes, SIP != jingle == xmpp voice	00:05
corecode	sip works without problems	00:05
DocScrutinizer	infobot: ping	00:05
infobot	~pong	00:05
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ruskie	corecode, voice or video or a lot of other things infact ;)	00:06
corecode	yes	00:06
DocScrutinizer	~literal rfc	00:06
ruskie	RemoteVNC - a remote desktop application, based on libjingle, which uses Jingle for screen sharing. <-- example	00:06
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DocScrutinizer	~factinfo rfc	00:06
infobot	DocScrutinizer: there's no such factoid as rfc	00:06
DocScrutinizer	o.O	00:06
ruskie	but I thought the voice channels jingle setup were the same as sip sets up	00:07
ruskie	it's just what sets it up that's different	00:07
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corecode	i don't think there is STUN for jingle, works somehow differently	00:08
ruskie	ICE	00:08
ruskie	still uses RTP though	00:08
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DocScrutinizer	SIP is about setup, the transport is usually RTP	00:08
corecode	i wonder how i could debug this	00:09
corecode	or rather, fix	00:09
ruskie	DocScrutinizer, jingle is about setup as well	00:09
DocScrutinizer	so jingle != SIP	00:09
corecode	same job, different protocol	00:09
DocScrutinizer	or jingle == SIP	00:09
corecode	anyways	00:09
DocScrutinizer	but never jingle uses sip	00:09
ruskie	yeah	00:10
corecode	thanks, sad that you don't know	00:10
SpeedEvil	~aegis	00:11
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or ...	00:11
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DocScrutinizer	dang	00:18
DocScrutinizer	~aegis	00:18
infobot	i heard aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif	00:18
DocScrutinizer	infobot: no, aegis is <reply>aegis: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/	00:20
infobot	DocScrutinizer: okay	00:20
DocScrutinizer	ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif	00:20
DocScrutinizer	damn	00:20
DocScrutinizer	~aegis	00:21
infobot	http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif	00:21
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wmarone	I believe that should read "third party software written by vendors that hate and distrust their customers, preemptively believing them to be criminials"	00:22
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: http://gmr.osmocom.org/trac/	00:27
SpeedEvil	Oooh!	00:27
SpeedEvil	neat	00:27
DocScrutinizer	yeah, now we're starting the next poker game, this time with really huge players	00:28
DocScrutinizer	plus I gather we won't get a Siemens 2W micro-BTS in orbit, used for a few hundered bucks, so we need to use their infra	00:29
DocScrutinizer	I'm just happy it's not iridium ;-P	00:30
DocScrutinizer	otherwise the 3 letter agencies were even more concerned about what we're doing	00:30
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SpeedEvil	Well - you get the handsets moderately cheap	00:34
DocScrutinizer	sure, but you hardly can emulate a "BTS"	00:34
DocScrutinizer	well, actually you can	00:34
DocScrutinizer	as it's almost GSM	00:34
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DocScrutinizer	but then again, the position of the one real "BTS" is rather exclusive and unique	00:35
DocScrutinizer	and the real fun is starting on messing with that one	00:36
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DocScrutinizer	thuraya also has really competitive minute plans	00:37
DocScrutinizer	if it wasn't for the completely missing coverage indoors, it'd actually be an alternative to plain old GSM	00:38
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HyperSnyper	Hi DocScrutinizer, my N900 should be arriving next week hopefully :D	00:38
DocScrutinizer	nice :-)	00:39
DocScrutinizer	welcome to the club :-)	00:39
HyperSnyper	heh	00:39
DocScrutinizer	lemme give you an URL so you can't say nobody toldya	00:40
DocScrutinizer	~usbfix	00:40
infobot	methinks usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and NEVER use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)	00:40
DocScrutinizer	emphasis on "before it breaks" here	00:40
HyperSnyper	hmmm	00:40
jacekowski	HyperSnyper: where did you get it?	00:41
HyperSnyper	ebay.co.uk	00:41
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HyperSnyper	is the usb really that sketchy ?	00:43
HyperSnyper	not done soldering since leaving college	00:43
HyperSnyper	n that was a fair while ago	00:43
HyperSnyper	heh	00:43
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DocScrutinizer	well, I think jacekowski and SpeedEvil both had issues with USB coming off, and they are both no hulks regarding handling hw	00:45
jacekowski	i'm sticking with my N8	00:45
jacekowski	it lasts 3 days on single charge	00:45
DocScrutinizer	otoh I got 2 devices here, working since 2 years and >1 year, with daily plug rounds	00:45
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bindi	my phone screen just went inresponsive	00:46
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: I dropped mine at the absolute worst angle 1.5m	00:46
bindi	and then i locked it, and unlocking won't bring it back on	00:46
SpeedEvil	So...	00:46
SpeedEvil	With the USB lead in	00:46
jacekowski	and it seems to work faster than N900	00:46
bindi	the phone is still running though	00:46
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: not faster, just semplir	00:46
DocScrutinizer	simpler*	00:46
jacekowski	tbh. there is nothing bad i can say about this phone	00:46
DocScrutinizer	bindi: what means irresponsive?	00:47
bindi	DocScrutinizer: i was just messing with terminal, and then touch screen didnt work anymore	00:47
bindi	so i locked it, and unlocked.. wouldnt come back on	00:47
HyperSnyper	looked at the N8 abit jacekowski but just not really what i wanted	00:47
DocScrutinizer	hmm	00:47
bindi	i just got an email, and the led is flashing about that	00:48
DocScrutinizer	bindi: you had a browser window open?	00:48
bindi	and i'm now ssh'd in	00:48
bindi	hmm no	00:48
bindi	nothing but terminal	00:48
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bindi	holding the power button does nothing either	00:48
DocScrutinizer	strange, usually this is a result of device in swaphell	00:48
bindi	uhh	00:48
DocScrutinizer	see what dmesg says	00:48
bindi	http://pastebin.com/7bPSTpMU	00:49
bindi	nothing out of the ordinary there	00:49
DocScrutinizer	hmm yeah	00:50
bindi	http://pastebin.com/aT9vF7iV	00:50
bindi	oh	00:50
DocScrutinizer	I suggest you make sure the device will come back up and even connect to wifi and start sshd without any user interaction, then reboot	00:50
bindi	now the screen came on	00:50
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: i wouldn't say simpler	00:50
bindi	any reason why it just started working?	00:51
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: apps take less time to start	00:51
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: things like that	00:51
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: and there is no swap problem	00:51
DocScrutinizer	bindi: trackerd finished indexing?	00:51
bindi	how do I know? :p	00:51
bindi	i disabled it on battery	00:51
DocScrutinizer	top	00:51
bindi	uh huh what should i be looking for	00:52
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: (swap) obviously :-P	00:52
DocScrutinizer	bindi: well, not that it works again, it's hard to do "post mortem" forensics	00:53
DocScrutinizer	s/not/now/	00:53
bindi	should've checked top earlier	00:53
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: bindi: well, now that it works again, it's hard to do "post mortem" forensics	00:53
bindi	wat	00:53
bindi	oh	00:53
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DocScrutinizer	or simply "you should've checked top earlier" ;-)	00:53
bindi	:(	00:54
DocScrutinizer	maybe you did sth on shell that caused some heavy cpu or IO load?	00:55
bindi	nope	00:55
bindi	opened terminal, ls *.py, wrote ./latitude and was about to press tab and it didnt work	00:55
DocScrutinizer	hmm	00:56
DocScrutinizer	no idea	00:56
bindi	I just connected it to wlan so could be mail checker	00:57
DocScrutinizer	maybe some ping floding or other "DoS attack" via connection to internet?	00:57
bindi	we'll probably never know :[	00:58
HyperSnyper	is there any decent GPS Mapping software for N900 at the moment DocScrutinizer	00:58
SpeedEvil	HyperSnyper: What do you mean by gps mapping?	00:58
DocScrutinizer	or mail checker trying to find the 5 new mails on a pop3 account with 5GB of read mails	00:58
HyperSnyper	all reviews i read seem to have very different opinions	00:58
jacekowski	sygic is half decent	00:58
SpeedEvil	osm2go	00:58
HyperSnyper	gps navigatiion	00:58
jacekowski	sygic is half decent	00:58
HyperSnyper	SpeedEvil how much b/w does it use ?	00:59
SpeedEvil	HyperSnyper: Oh - I misread	00:59
SpeedEvil	It's not a routefinder	00:59
SpeedEvil	It's a map editor	00:59
HyperSnyper	oh	00:59
DocScrutinizer	check mappero and marble	01:00
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Atarii	I love the spam on http://talk.maemo.org; lets me know what sports are on	01:02
psycho_oreos	little did I know my very own thread is getting all fired up :)	01:03
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Shapeshifter	The amount of spam on tmo sure is amazing.	01:07
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psycho_oreos	from football to boxing	01:31
psycho_oreos	I think the spammers are getting smarter now, they realise that the mods at this time is asleep (mostly because they are all US based) so they decided to spam at this time to make the most of their point	01:33
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tzorvas	n900 is "down" after a failed upgrade with apt-get :$ and i need a way to backup its contents before reflashing it .. i can get it into Nokia Firmware Upgrade Mode but i dont know how to mount its internal storage :/ (cant open the phone)	02:45
tzorvas	any idea?	02:45
psycho_oreos	you don't have backup menu?	02:47
psycho_oreos	err backupmenu	02:47
DocScrutinizer	tzorvas: no way, except rescue-os on a uSD	02:48
tzorvas	i want back my contaaaaaaacts :'( i should find a way :$	02:49
psycho_oreos	you won't lose your contacts if you flash the fiasco/combined firmware however	02:49
tzorvas	psycho_oreos: hm.. http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Flashing_only_the_kernel_from_a_FIASCO_image_.28expert_topic.21.29 ?	02:51
psycho_oreos	tzorvas, no not flashing just the kernel, flashing the whole rootfs	02:52
tzorvas	if i flash the whole rootfs won't i loose my contacts that are stored inside internal storage (eMMC) ?	02:53
psycho_oreos	your contacts are stored in eMMC which lives on a separate memory chip and is not part of rootfs	02:54
psycho_oreos	it gets mounted but it does not physically reside on the same memory chip	02:54
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tzorvas	psycho_oreos: can you please point me to the right instructions set?	02:58
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psycho_oreos	tzorvas, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Console_with_Flasher-3.5	03:02
tzorvas	so with sudo /usr/bin/flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> -f -R i won't flash emmc, right?	03:04
psycho_oreos	you still need to provide it with an actual firmware image and it all depends on which firmware image you get	03:05
psycho_oreos	the ones clearly labelled eMMC will overwrite your eMMC	03:05
tzorvas	is this right?	03:06
tzorvas	RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin200174197PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900	03:06
psycho_oreos	I guess so, yes	03:06
tzorvas	there is also an option for flasher	03:06
tzorvas	--flash-only and i can set, nolo/kernel/initfs/rootfs	03:07
psycho_oreos	you were told to flash the entire rootfs	03:07
psycho_oreos	if you want to be ignorant and do whatever you want to make it work, its up to you. I've made it clear that you should flash the entire rootfs	03:08
tzorvas	psycho_oreos: it has all contacts :D	03:22
tzorvas	thanks for your help..	03:22
ShadowJK	apt-get upgrade is dangerous, good idea to make backups first :/	03:23
SpeedEvil	Rootfs has no contacts	03:23
SpeedEvil	contacts are in /home	03:23
psycho_oreos	and that was all previously covered	03:23
tzorvas	ShadowJK: the best solutions was to backup, keep it and reflash it so i can update to latest CSSU firmware	03:23
tzorvas	the problem was that.. i wasnt able to update in latest CSSU with OTA	03:23
psycho_oreos	CSSU doesn't provide firmwares	03:24
tzorvas	CSSU isnt updating N900? i was able to do backup but it was asking for plug it in PC and use pc suite for the update..	03:26
psycho_oreos	CSSU only provides updates, they do not release firmwares like nokia does	03:26
HyperSnyper	DocScrutinizer you about, ok to pm ?	03:27
tzorvas	yes but the process is pretty much the same.. backup -> update etc.. i didn't want to confuse CSSU with nokia firmware updates sorry.	03:28
psycho_oreos	and that's only if you used HAM (Hildon Application Manager)	03:29
tzorvas	any other suggestion instead of ham?	03:30
psycho_oreos	the other alternatives are not for beginners	03:30
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tzorvas	whatever	03:33
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psycho_oreos	in fact CSSU itself is not really recommended for the faint at heart :p without backups one could be at a detrimental loss	03:36
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psycho_oreos	and looks like the mods are on the tmo, cleaning out those spams	03:37
tzorvas	thankfully i did backup before doing apt-get dist-upgrade	03:38
psycho_oreos	not when you were panicking a moment ago	03:39
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tzorvas	well i will not do this again for sure and i will sacrifice 20 more minutes instead of just doing risky things and having the risk of a heart attack :$	03:41
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internetishard	Wish I could find a headset that is clip on	03:42
psycho_oreos	`clip' on?	03:44
internetishard	yeah, like around the back of the ear so it doesn't fall out	03:45
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psycho_oreos	hmm wired? I'm sure there's a fair few	03:46
internetishard	wired would be ideal	03:46
internetishard	better security	03:46
internetishard	I looked for a long time, couldn't find any	03:46
psycho_oreos	http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Reviews/Accessories/R3K9Q9H4 <--- this? :D	03:49
internetishard	haha	03:49
internetishard	wtf, those are big ass headphones	03:49
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tzorvas	this is not wired but weird for n900 headphones :P	03:50
internetishard	I want something with a mic for talking on the phone... a "headset" not "headphones"	03:50
psycho_oreos	fyi that does have mic apparently, its probably built inside the headset.. that's why its deemed as headset not headphone	03:51
internetishard	I need something I can ride in the car with, run around with, etc	03:51
psycho_oreos	and as for weird terms, its not as weird as BH-905 :p they don't cover your ear but go ontop of your ear	03:51
internetishard	just not earbud	03:52
internetishard	yeah, that would suck	03:52
internetishard	being on top of the ear	03:52
internetishard	I have a nice pair of audio technica cans	03:52
psycho_oreos	<< sony mdr-7503 cans :)	03:53
internetishard	ath-50s	03:53
internetishard	Although I hard a pair of a700s recently and was blown away	03:53
internetishard	though, he did use an extra portable amp	03:54
psycho_oreos	http://www.fishpond.com.au/Lifestyle/Cyber-Acoustics-Neckband-Style-Headset-and-Microphone-Silver/0646422100784 <---- that? :D	03:55
HyperSnyper	Sennheiser <3	03:55
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psycho_oreos	http://www.i-touchcomputers.com.au/index.php?productID=254	03:57
psycho_oreos	http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/private_headsets_pc_music-PC-141	03:57
psycho_oreos	http://www.icidu.com/index.php/audio/headset/headset-sporty-neckband.html	04:00
psycho_oreos	there's really plenty of them	04:00
internetishard	I can't walk around in the street looking like a telemarketer	04:00
internetishard	it needs to be a dangling mic	04:00
internetishard	all .au links	04:00
internetishard	I'm in 'merica	04:00
psycho_oreos	the sennheiser link wasn't .au :) neither was that icidu	04:01
internetishard	I can't walk around looking like this: http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/telemarketer1.jpg	04:02
psycho_oreos	http://www.chinatob.com/pid10168162/Neckband+Headset+with+Microphone+TB-M910.htm	04:05
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HyperSnyper	can you get nackband mic + jack ?	04:07
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HyperSnyper	then use any headphones u want	04:07
psycho_oreos	http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/private_headphones_sport-line_504604	04:08
internetishard	see the two connectors... It won't fit the n900	04:08
psycho_oreos	http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/private_headphones_sport-line_504607	04:08
psycho_oreos	internetishard, you can get adapters for those, not too hard really	04:08
psycho_oreos	http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/private_headphones_sport-line_504601	04:09
psycho_oreos	http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/private_headphones_sport-line_504603	04:09
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HyperSnyper	http://www.amazon.com/Jabra-CLIPPER-Bluetooth-Stereo-Headset/dp/B0040X33SE/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1316912898&sr=1-3	04:10
psycho_oreos	I don't think he wanted a bluetooth headset :)	04:11
HyperSnyper	least he wont have to worry bout adapters	04:11
HyperSnyper	:P	04:11
psycho_oreos	otoh it doesn't go around the ear, it looks like a standard earplugs	04:11
psycho_oreos	I'm sure that's besides the point	04:12
psycho_oreos	and if one wants to compare with bluetooth, there's this: http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/private_headsets_mobile_music_504111	04:14
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psycho_oreos	http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/backbeat-903-plus&skuId=sku5630014 <-- or even these	04:18
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internetishard	needs a mic	04:21
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psycho_oreos	which?	04:23
internetishard	last link	04:26
psycho_oreos	Microphones Dual-Mic	04:27
psycho_oreos	in the specifications page	04:27
internetishard	oh yeah	04:27
* psycho_oreos wonders if you're not looking hard enough or your simply tired and cbf'ed reading up on the specs close enough		04:28
internetishard	I'm looking at the wired ones	04:28
psycho_oreos	and the sennheiser links that I previously posted?	04:28
internetishard	some look okay	04:46
internetishard	looking for place to buy them	04:46
internetishard	seriously, 50$ for some cable and generic earpod speakers?	04:47
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psycho_oreos	if you're talking about sennheisers, they are like one of the audiophile's recommended manufacturers	04:50
psycho_oreos	its like buying a merc :p	04:50
internetishard	psycho_oreos, the mic is on that dangling clip, I take it	04:52
internetishard	I think I'll get them	04:52
internetishard	I take it they'll be compatible with 3.5mm jack in the n900 even though it doesn't list the size	04:52
psycho_oreos	internetishard, doesn't help when you don't provide the actual link, nor do I condone any of the products I've mentioned	04:53
internetishard	what do you condone?	04:53
internetishard	http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/private_headphones_sport-line_504604	04:53
psycho_oreos	I'm a fan of bluetooth headsets. I have tried numerous wired headsets with mixed results and now using bluetooth headsets I only have to worry about other interferences over wireless	04:54
psycho_oreos	plus there was a tmo thread about owners with worn N900 TRRS ports	04:55
internetishard	what were the negatives of the wired headset?	04:55
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internetishard	people wore out their n900 audio port?	04:56
internetishard	I'm pretty careful with mine... the main thing about bluetooth headsets is that they can be eavesdropped on pretty easily.	04:56
internetishard	(easily in comparison to strong crypto)	04:56
psycho_oreos	if you're trying to move around confined places sometimes your cables gets caught with other objects near you when moving around in confined spaces and as a result either the plug gets pulled out, your headphone gets yanked out of your ear, etc	04:57
internetishard	sure, yeah	04:57
psycho_oreos	they can be eavesdropped when and if there's an mitm attack, you'll know when you get eavesdropped they disconnect the link between you and your headset	04:57
internetishard	I've read articles saying that don't agree	04:58
internetishard	http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/08/eavesdropping_o.html	04:58
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psycho_oreos	to inject audio to, and record audio from bypassing cars that have an unconnected Bluetooth handsfree unit running.	05:02
psycho_oreos	so if the devices are already pre-paired, the case wouldn't really matter unless the attacker breaks the pair and inserts itself in between the two devices	05:03
psycho_oreos	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53399 <--- audio port problem with N900	05:05
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SpeedEvil	psycho_oreos: err - note the dte	05:17
psycho_oreos	SpeedEvil, dte?	05:18
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SpeedEvil	date	05:18
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psycho_oreos	SpeedEvil, for that tmo thread? yes its old but its a good starting point for reading	05:19
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SpeedEvil	The headset wire breaks	05:22
SpeedEvil	possibly	05:22
SpeedEvil	Mine has	05:22
SpeedEvil	and done that	05:22
SpeedEvil	Oh - I diddn't read internetishard's question.	05:22
hiemanshu	reading Backlogs is overrated anyways	05:23
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DocScrutinizer	dman, that's been scary! Charging didn't work anymore, actually t900 didn't detect D+/- short from fastcharger. Reboot didn't help. Removing battery for 3 minutes didn't help. Another charger didn't help. Device refused to take significant charging current (according to charger's control LED). So I plugged it in to PC t check what's up with the D+/- lines, and there it started charging. Back to wallwart charger it was all back to normal	06:20
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DocScrutinizer	already thought I lost my USB port	06:21
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GAN900	Weird	06:28
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DocScrutinizer	yoh	06:33
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internetishard	how do you fix a stuck vibrator again?	07:23
internetishard	This happened before with my phone, but I forgot how I fixed it (you guys recommended some methods)	07:23
DocScrutinizer	very sudden rotation of device along the axis of headset plug	07:26
internetishard	while it is vibrating?	07:27
DocScrutinizer	I thought it's not vibrating anymore	07:27
internetishard	well	07:27
internetishard	while it is hissing trying to	07:27
DocScrutinizer	hmm, maybe try both	07:27
DocScrutinizer	also gentle but firm tapping in up&down of landscape screen plane	07:28
DocScrutinizer	with your finger tips, quite firmly	07:28
DocScrutinizer	(don't hit the buttons though)	07:29
DocScrutinizer	next step: disassembling	07:29
DocScrutinizer	aah, and hold the device screen down while doing the "gym"	07:30
DocScrutinizer	then screen upright landscape, and top down landscape	07:31
internetishard	dood	07:32
internetishard	was banging on it violently	07:32
internetishard	started tapping all over the back really hard	07:33
internetishard	and it started vibrating again	07:33
internetishard	thanks	07:33
DocScrutinizer	yw	07:33
doc\|home	I really thought this was a troll	07:33
internetishard	dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_vibrator_pattern_activate string:'PatternIncomingCall' I just leave this on	07:33
internetishard	While I bang	07:33
internetishard	Thanks doc\|home	07:33
doc\|home	:D	07:33
internetishard	Aight	07:34
internetishard	Time to "go out"	07:34
internetishard	anyone live in the bay area?	07:34
DocScrutinizer	the trick is to kick the debris out of the way of vibra excenter	07:34
DocScrutinizer	while ideally same time rotating the device so the excenter mass starts to rotate by mere inertia	07:35
DocScrutinizer	axis of vibrator motor is along upper long side of device	07:36
DocScrutinizer	internetishard: you can do preventive "cleaning" by holding device screen down and 45% tilt to show power button down, then gently knocking the backside and sliding kbd open and close 2 times while keeping the orientation. This should move small dust and debris out of the device	07:44
internetishard	yeah, that worked last time I think	07:44
internetishard	but this time it wasn't	07:44
internetishard	so I started tapping in different directions	07:44
internetishard	vs the axis	07:44
internetishard	since I have no way of knowing which way something was lodged	07:44
DocScrutinizer	do this several times a week and your vibra shouldn't get stuck	07:44
DocScrutinizer	n900 actually is a dust magnet, due the the case being wide open on the whole area between lower (kbd) half and screen half	07:47
DocScrutinizer	s/dust magnet/trash bin/	07:48
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: n900 actually is a trash bin, due the the case being wide open on the whole area between lower (kbd) half and screen half	07:48
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doc\|home	sniff, and I'll be sad when my dines :(	08:11
doc\|home	er, dies	08:11
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Juozapas	hi is it possible to change soundtrack on media player? i have a movie with 2 languages	09:14
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CableTwitch	Y'ello!	11:43
hiemanshu	Green	11:43
CableTwitch	I have yet another intreguing Maemo/N900 based issue, that's baffling me AND Google. I come to tap the collective knowledge of you lot.	11:44
CableTwitch	How exactly could said device repeatedly, and annoyingly, turn the screen on and off, as if the device were locked and unlocked using the slider?	11:46
psycho_oreos	was that meant to be a two parts question or phrased in a philosophical manner to confuse the average joe?	11:49
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CableTwitch	Psycho: Whatever it was meant to be, it evidently worked :O)	11:57
psycho_oreos	huh.. I'm really confused	11:57
CableTwitch	But yes. Device locking and unlocking the screen at random, usually in short fits. After that, it settles down again for a while. I doubt it's the screen cable, as opening and closing the screen doesn't cause the issue directly.	11:58
CableTwitch	I'm pondering the idea that it COULD be either the mag-switch for the screen, or the physical slider contacts. But playing with both doesn't allieviate the issue.	11:59
CableTwitch	So it's left me wondering if it's a software glitch, maybe?	11:59
psycho_oreos	I'm guessing sometimes it could also be the settings which if one randomly taps the screen when the screen is not even on will activate the screen	12:00
CableTwitch	Ahh, if it were simple taps, it would be good. I've placed the unit flat on a desk, and watched it switch the screen on randomly for a few minutes before.	12:01
CableTwitch	Sometimes it's miliseconds between activations, others, seconds.	12:01
psycho_oreos	is this with just a stock setup? and how is this related to Google? are you running nitdroid?	12:02
CableTwitch	It baffles me.	12:02
CableTwitch	Stock setup, with a few programs installed, none of which have ever caused this behavior before.	12:03
CableTwitch	The relation to google is that it was singularly useless in finding any instances of this issue online.	12:03
CableTwitch	And no, not nitdroid, plain old PR1.3 Maemo.	12:04
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psycho_oreos	hmm	12:06
CableTwitch	See, I wonder if there is a possible glitch with the auto screen off part of it, that's getting confused.	12:06
CableTwitch	That's the only other part of the device that can affect the screen in such a manner, without any physical input.	12:06
psycho_oreos	personally I have never had this issue with the screen randomly coming on apart from initially with my spare N900 setup it used to react to finger pressing on the screen when the screen is not even active	12:07
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CableTwitch	I'm no linux guru. I'm barely a user. So hence why I ask the wise people in here.	12:08
CableTwitch	Oh, powercycling seems to make precious little difference. It's done it after a few, so it's not something that's happened due to cosmic radiation randomly changing the screen lock status, or something.	12:09
hiemanshu	maybe its spying on it	12:11
psycho_oreos	heh I'm no guru either.. was this device you obtained brand new or second hand?	12:11
hiemanshu	s/it/you/	12:11
infobot	hiemanshu meant: maybe yous spying on it	12:11
CableTwitch	This would be my 3rd unit... it could possibly be a reconditioned one manifesting an original problem, potentially.	12:12
CableTwitch	In any case, is there a way, for a completely non-technical user like my useless self, to set a log of the screen state recording, to see what could be triggering it?	12:14
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psycho_oreos	hmm not easily, I'm guessing dbus may have some useful information but its not for beginners, needs some fine tuning to find locate the right triggers	12:17
CableTwitch	Ideally, something to record the state of all 3 things that can mess with the screen (Maglock, slider, software auto-off) and show me which is responsible during the funny five minutes.	12:19
CableTwitch	Right, going underground now, but if people could ruminate on this, and possibly suggest ideas when I return, I'd be grateful.	12:21
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vdv	hi all	12:33
psycho_oreos	hi	12:33
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vdv	does anyone know, whether fbreader supports continious scrolling?	12:33
vdv	i.e. it doesn't suddenly switch to the next page	12:33
vdv	but scroll further to it	12:34
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Venemo	morning	12:36
Venemo	is portraid mode HD added to CSSU yet?	12:36
Venemo	MohammadAG ^^	12:36
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psycho_oreos	yes it has	12:38
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psycho_oreos	great.. in the persuit to solve CableTwitch's issue I got my device into bootloop, time to yet again thank robbiethe1st for having backupmenu already available :)	13:02
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CableTwitch	I return!	13:26
psycho_oreos	I didn't get very far with getting to what you wanted with the logging	13:27
CableTwitch	Not a problem, chap. I figure it'll take a lot of sleuthing.	13:28
psycho_oreos	I found out which dbus signal deals with the screen but I tried tinkering with the actual program (which needless to say is part of a system process) and ended up bootlooping (semi-bricking) the device	13:28
CableTwitch	Awesome. Managed to fix the unit yet?	13:29
psycho_oreos	I was lucky to have robbiethe1st's backupmenu installed and having created a backup of my setup not long ago in fact (maybe a day old)	13:30
CableTwitch	A smart move indeed.	13:30
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CableTwitch	I should do a backup on this thing, and maybe try a reflash. If nothing else, I can ensure everything is reset.	13:30
psycho_oreos	anyhow the command I found was this: # dbus-monitor --system path=/com/nokia/mce/signal	13:31
psycho_oreos	running as root user seems to be a necessity as mce logs it as system rather than session log	13:31
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CableTwitch	But that bricks it?	13:33
psycho_oreos	no	13:33
CableTwitch	Ahh, ok.	13:33
CableTwitch	And that monitors the what, exactly?	13:34
psycho_oreos	hacking away /etc/events.d/mce to make it dump information into a file semi-bricked the device	13:34
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CableTwitch	Ahh, ok.	13:34
psycho_oreos	it monitors mce signals, though you can see `path=/com/nokia/mce/signal', that's an extra parameter for dbus-monitor that you can specify to monitor for expressions	13:35
* CableTwitch just nods and smiles		13:35
psycho_oreos	its kinda like grep from reading something out of dmesg really.. it only outputs relevant information out to the screen without showing you things that doesn't relate	13:35
CableTwitch	I did mention I was linux syntax illiterate?	13:35
psycho_oreos	heh not really but you can always start learning :)	13:36
CableTwitch	belive me, now is really not a good time to start :O)	13:36
psycho_oreos	btw backupmenu doesn't come with the device by default neither is it available in the nokia firmware images. Its only available if and when you enable extras-devel and install it	13:37
CableTwitch	Righto.	13:37
CableTwitch	Maybe I'll return tomorrow, and we can go over this moreso when I'm not half asleep.	13:37
psycho_oreos	well, you gotta start sometime somewhere :) N900 is a linux based tablet and without learning ins and outs of linux, you may struggle getting more out of your device	13:37
psycho_oreos	heh I might be around still, only time will tell afterall tomorrow is Monday	13:38
psycho_oreos	s/tablet/device/	13:38
psycho_oreos	infobot, ping	13:39
infobot	~pong	13:39
psycho_oreos	s/based tablet/based device/	13:39
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psycho_oreos	search and replace regexp broke lol	13:40
CableTwitch	I have to admit, I didn't buy the N900 because it ran linux. I got it because it was a rather nice mini-tablet/phone	13:40
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psycho_oreos	unfortunately the whole backend runs linux :) which is what makes it so powerful yet versatile	13:41
CableTwitch	Yay. Device is doing it right now.	13:41
CableTwitch	It's cutting out the keyboard too, so it's certainly not just the screen ribbon cable.	13:41
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CableTwitch	Something is definitely causing the device to lock and unlock at random.	13:41
robbiethe1st	Are you doing anything high in IO?	13:42
CableTwitch	Data connection via GPRS, xchat, nothing else.	13:42
psycho_oreos	CableTwitch, just out of curiousity, can you pastebin (not paste) me the output of your maemo-list-user-packages?	13:44
CableTwitch	If I knew how, maybe.	13:44
CableTwitch	As I said, tomorrow would be a better time to actuallymess with the device.	13:44
robbiethe1st	I'd suggest installing the system monitor applet; one that sits in the little tray up at the top	13:44
robbiethe1st	also, first thing to install is rootsh.	13:45
CableTwitch	I think that's already on.	13:46
CableTwitch	I did something that needed it ages ago. Again, the wise wizards of ix in here talked me through it.	13:46
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psycho_oreos	sshd is also very ideal for most of us helpers :)	13:47
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robbiethe1st	heh. I rarely used that	13:49
robbiethe1st	On-device terminal, however...	13:49
robbiethe1st	(now I use sshd a lot more via sshfs... cause I broke my USB port and all)	13:49
CableTwitch	I try to stay away from the parts that let me do damage.	13:49
CableTwitch	Plus, aside from this phone, I don't use linux anywhere else.	13:50
robbiethe1st	See, you've got lots to learn.	13:50
robbiethe1st	Oh, and once you have flasher handy... you can't brick your device	13:50
CableTwitch	Oh joy.	13:50
CableTwitch	I've flashed the unit before. Upgrading the software, done that.	13:51
robbiethe1st	OCing theoretically can, but it's rare.	13:51
psycho_oreos	sshfs is a huge battery drain though when transferring large amounts of data	13:51
CableTwitch	Right, other half is here, gotta go.	13:51
robbiethe1st	No worse than a NFS share I think...	13:52
CableTwitch	Laters all!	13:52
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robbiethe1st	Seriously; my machine got pretty warm when copying loads of data over NFS...	13:52
vdv	isn't it possible to scroll line by line with volume buttons?	13:52
vdv	in dorian :)	13:52
robbiethe1st	They're just buttons, so a program can do whatever it wants.	13:53
vdv	i'm talking about dorian reader	13:53
robbiethe1st	ah	13:53
robbiethe1st	I use Fbreader	13:53
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vdv	it scrolls couple of lines on one button press	13:53
robbiethe1st	I have it set to scroll per-page on tap or button press... scrolling a few lines seems... odd	13:54
vdv	i've used to continious line-by-line scroll of text	13:55
vdv	like evince does for pdf for example	13:55
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SpeedEvil	line by line is very, very slow	13:57
SpeedEvil	I can read faste than I can push the button	13:57
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pauly	hello all	17:27
hiemanshu	hi	17:28
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Pauly2	i bought an n8 like 1month ago, anything interesting happen with maemo since then?	17:29
hiemanshu	new CSSU	17:29
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Pauly2	anyone getting the n9	17:30
Pauly2	symbian on n8 is boring but i like my camera	17:30
hiemanshu	if they dont give me a proper release software for the N950, then yes	17:31
hiemanshu	s/software/firmware/	17:31
infobot	hiemanshu meant: if they dont give me a proper release firmware for the N950, then yes	17:31
jacekowski	Pauly2: well, from my experience with it, it seems to be faster than maemo	17:31
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Pauly2	ya but idk i want to fix my n900 but instead im save $ up for n9	17:32
Pauly2	is everyone supposed to move to meego irc or stay here idk?	17:33
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jacekowski	it looks like n9 will be DoA	17:34
Pauly2	jacekowski: really	17:34
SpeedEvil	n9 is not meego	17:35
SpeedEvil	(as delivered)	17:35
SpeedEvil	You may be able to run meego-ce on it	17:35
hiemanshu	may	17:35
Pauly2	ah	17:35
SpeedEvil	It's been stated in various places it will be possible.	17:35
SpeedEvil	But, ...	17:36
Pauly2	i so confused, so i buy a netbook or tablet instead and keep my n8 lol	17:36
SpeedEvil	Wait a few weeks.	17:38
SpeedEvil	Things will clear up	17:38
Pauly2	ya	17:38
Pauly2	you all have the n950 isnt it just like n9 harmatten?	17:39
SpeedEvil	It's not clear.	17:39
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SpeedEvil	There are a number of differences in the firmware between the n950 image available to the community, and the released n9	17:40
Pauly2	you like the n950 though?	17:40
Pauly2	i see	17:40
SpeedEvil	Exactly what those differences are won't be clear until the n9 is actually in consumers hands.	17:40
SpeedEvil	I like the hardware, mostly.	17:40
SpeedEvil	The main issues I have with it are the keyboard.	17:41
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SpeedEvil	And the software side - the security infrastructure is annoying enough that if configured wrong, it may not allow meego- to boot	17:41
SpeedEvil	And it also does not allow you to patch system software - at all - for bugfixes.	17:42
Pauly2	its basiclly just like a testing device	17:42
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hiemanshu	SpeedEvil: whats wrong with keyboards?	17:58
hiemanshu	-s	17:58
SpeedEvil	hiemanshu: I don't like the flat keys	17:59
hiemanshu	ah	18:00
Pauly2	theres a meego netbook out already!	18:00
hiemanshu	more than one	18:00
Pauly2	really i only seen the eee pc	18:01
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merlin1991	my mirror of the maemo repositories is reaching 100gb oO	18:22
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vdv	should foxit reader work in easy debian?	18:32
vdv	there's a linux version of it	18:32
jacekowski	no	18:36
ruskie	not likely since it's probably built for x86/x86-64	18:36
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SpeedEvil	merlin1991: wow	18:39
merlin1991	I just added 50gb to the lv to be on the save side for the next few months :)	18:40
merlin1991	it's going to be pita to move the server content when the current contract ends	18:42
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hatake_kakashi	mine is sitting on 136GB and that is with a fairly old mirror update	18:44
MohammadAG	anyone wanna help me reverse my bus station/services' website?	18:45
MohammadAG	I need an app to show timetables	18:45
merlin1991	does yours include testing? I only mirror extras, devel and cssu	18:45
hatake_kakashi	yeah mine includes testing, extras, devel, cssu, cssu-testing	18:46
hatake_kakashi	though mine has at least 15 more other repositories (belonging to other domains) added, along with various maemo versions	18:47
Pauly2	does anyone know how to fix the screen on n900 mines broke	18:47
Pauly2	repair shop wants $200?	18:48
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MohammadAG	ZogG, ping	18:48
RST38h	repair shop wants you gone	18:48
hatake_kakashi	indeed	18:48
MohammadAG	any Israelis online?	18:49
MohammadAG	need to know if the damn post office's open this Tuesday :/	18:49
Pauly2	any1 interested in fixing it for me?	18:50
RST38h	guess	18:50
MohammadAG	I would, but the screws suck and sometimes break	18:51
Pauly2	lcd and the digitizer broke	18:51
Pauly2	i dropped it	18:51
MohammadAG	80 bucks I guess	18:51
MohammadAG	weird though, my N900 fell may times	18:52
Pauly2	im in usa	18:52
Pauly2	usb fell off also	18:52
RST38h	Too late	18:53
Pauly2	too late?	18:56
RST38h	N900 is no longer produced and Nokia Care won't fix it for you	18:56
Pauly2	i know	18:56
RST38h	Get an iPhone.	18:57
Pauly2	lol	18:57
vdv	jacekowski, ruskie: ok, thanks	18:57
MohammadAG	RST38h, tbh	18:57
MohammadAG	after using the SGSII, N950 etc	18:57
MohammadAG	the iPhone feels like a toy	18:57
hatake_kakashi	iphone is a toy :)	18:58
ruskie	less than a toy	18:59
Pauly2	anyone has unlimited 3.5g data plan?	18:59
Pauly2	my wife wants iPhone 5 coming out next month	19:00
GAN900	AT&T's grandfathered plans.	19:00
RST38h	Mohammad: ihone feels like a toy in any case	19:01
RST38h	Mohammad: Android makes me claustrophobic, cannot multitask	19:01
Pauly2	MohammadAG: can u fix usb?	19:01
MohammadAG	no, I wouldn't even try	19:01
MohammadAG	I'm no engineer	19:01
GAN900	Yeah, there's just nothing like Maemo. :/	19:02
RST38h	I can bring you a whole new N900, but it will cost you $700.	19:02
MohammadAG	RST38h, wait, so what's the task manager thingy on the SGSII?	19:02
MohammadAG	Android suspends tasks?	19:02
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RST38h	Mohammad: yep	19:02
Pauly2	MohammadAG: i can take it to repair shop for usb, and maybe you can get screen :)	19:03
RST38h	Mohammad: then kills them at random, as memory permits	19:03
MohammadAG	Pauly2, might be cheaper to fix it all in the shop :P	19:03
MohammadAG	I live half a planet from you	19:03
MohammadAG	RST38h, that's... disturbing	19:03
MohammadAG	I thought it always ran them	19:03
Pauly2	android didnt have http uploads until 2.1	19:03
Pauly2	its lame	19:03
RST38h	MohammadAG: Not disturbing, natural	19:04
RST38h	MohammadAG: The whole platform has been designed at the time of PalmOS and MIDP	19:04
GAN900	It makes me laugh to think there's this whole generation of people who think iOS is some sort of incredible revolution.	19:04
MohammadAG	I have a presentation at uni tomorrow	19:04
MohammadAG	thinking about talking about the evolution of mobiles and stuff	19:05
RST38h	GAN: That is only because Steve Jobs has told them so	19:05
MohammadAG	GAN900, you can't deny that iOS did get the ball rolling for some things though	19:05
RST38h	In the US, it did	19:05
RST38h	In Europe, people hardly noticed	19:06
GAN900	MohammadAG, to an extent.	19:07
GAN900	But the way people worship it you'd think it were better than pre-sliced bread.	19:08
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GAN900	When it's really pretty fundamentally crappy compared to a real OS.	19:08
MohammadAG	indeed	19:08
RST38h	GAN: Don't you worry, another year or two and the bread will restore its public importance	19:08
RST38h	...along with other fundamentals	19:09
GAN900	It's gonna suck having to switch platforms.	19:10
GAN900	It's too bad Nokia is screwing us over so hard that riding Harmattan out for another year isn't even looking particularly viable anymore.	19:11
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orfix	is there any device running maemo other than the N900 ?	19:15
kerio	heh, i just realized that the mobile market in the US was (and still is) incredibly awful, compared to europe's	19:15
kerio	and that's probably why iphoneos looks so amazing to americans	19:15
hatake_kakashi	orfix, N800, N810, 770	19:17
orfix	hatake_kakashi: ok, so the N900 is the most powerfull one.	19:18
hatake_kakashi	orfix, obviously	19:18
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hatake_kakashi	well obviously for the public domain, there's N950 but that's not publicly available and N9 which is not even out yet	19:19
GAN900	kerio, hey, consumers get options, they just don't care.	19:25
GAN900	They'd rather get the "free" phones.	19:25
orfix	is there any chance that the N8 could run maemo ?	19:26
kerio	orfix: no	19:26
orfix	because the N950 and N9 looks like running symbian too.	19:27
hatake_kakashi	fail	19:27
kerio	no they don't :\	19:27
hatake_kakashi	if meego looks like symbian to you, then you need your eyes fixed	19:28
orfix	kerio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6U8jH_apD2k	19:28
kerio	yeah, that's meego	19:28
orfix	kerio: ah ok (same icons as symbian)	19:29
orfix	=$	19:29
hatake_kakashi	same/similar icons as symbian does not equate to the device running symbian	19:31
hatake_kakashi	you can get mango icons for N900 but would that make your N900 be running as mango OS? no it doesn't	19:32
orfix	hatake_kakashi: are you upset ? =P	19:34
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AndrewX192	The spammers are at it again. ugh.	21:13
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