IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2011-09-13

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ErwinJungeAfter seeing a video on youtube of a mitm attack using something called "yamas" I got a bit worried so wanted to see if my own network is also vulnerable for something like this. Running yamas reboots my phone however, any ideas about what I can do to figure out why?00:25
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Estel^^p01:45
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Estel_Hey, sorry if it was covered before, but I've strange problem with connecting via maemo xchat using ssl03:15
Estel_Normally, I get "Verify E: unable to get local issuer certificate.? (20)"03:17
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Estel_when i check "accept invalid certificates", I can connect using ssl at first try, and error 20 is properly ignored...03:17
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Estel_ho ever, if I try to reconnect, or disconnect and connect again, i got error 27, "certificate is not trusted"03:18
Estel_it seems, that error 27 untrusted certificate ignores "accept invalid certificates" option03:19
Estel_so, basically, I'm able to connect via ssl only initially, every reconnect attemp fail miserably. Only one solution is to restart maemo xchat as a whole.03:20
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Estel_I suspect it's due to GANDI SAS being not trusted root in fremantle03:20
Estel_but the strangest part is that I'm able to connect initially. Also, I tried irGGu irc client for maemo, and I got no issues with ssl there... But, irGGu lack support for almost every command (or i was to clueless to discover how use them there), I was unable to even register my nickname to nickserv, cause /msg was not working...03:22
Estel_so, anyone got any clues about that strange ssl/cert problem in xchat? sorry again, if it was covered somewhere, wasn't able to find it in forum03:23
Estel_And I suspect most people here use xchat on N900, so maybe it's known roblem03:23
Estel_thanks in advance03:23
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SpeedEvilI've never used ssl03:38
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Estel_hm, can You at least try if You can reproduce problem, i.e. it's not limited to my device/my xchat settings?03:39
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Estel_it's only a matter of changing freenode port to 7000 and checking "use ssl" in connection options of xchat03:39
Estel_if it fails, check again with "ignore invalid certificates"03:40
Estel_of course keeping an eye for error messages, in case of fail03:40
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SpeedEvilWhere's the port setting - I see the ssl setting03:46
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SpeedEvilWheres the port setting - I see the ssl setting03:47
Estel_You set port in first tab of server editing, where You ,robably see chat.freenode.net, or something like that03:49
Estel_you just add port after /03:49
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Estel_so, it should look like chat.freenode.net/700003:49
Estel_of course Your freenode domain of choose may wary03:49
SpeedEvil...issuer certificate03:50
Estel_but all of their servers use exact same ort configuration03:50
Estel_error 20?03:50
SpeedEvilyes03:50
SpeedEviland cert not trusted if accept invalid03:50
SpeedEvil2703:51
Estel_btw, the strangest part is that IrGGu got no problem even *without* accept invalids03:51
Estel_hehe, funniest part is that if You now restart xchat totally03:51
Estel_You'll be connected with "accept invalid"03:51
SpeedEvilI'm on 2.8.603:51
Estel_but, reconnect attempt wil fail again03:52
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wblazeIrGGu?03:52
Estel_it seems that at first connection attempt, xchat cant get connection with certificate container03:52
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SpeedEvil(not ssl this time)03:52
Estel_= error 20, and that is ignored if "accept invalid certs" = 103:53
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Estel_but, error 27 is "stronger" that accept invalid cert, so at wnd attempt it check it in cert container03:53
zakkkkkmHey, anyone know how to make it autolock to the point of pin asking, on rocker pushing?03:54
zakkkkkmor screen off03:54
Estel_wblaze - yes, irGGU, somehow nice client for irc and maemo03:54
zakkkkkmRecently moved to blackbery 9700 for work purposes, wanting to switch back, but i need proper locking/pin asking.03:54
Estel_in fact we're talking about xchat issues with ssl, and irGGU seems to not be affected, but irGGu lacks basic funcionalities on the other hand03:55
wblazeI'll have to take a look, though ssh to my screen/irssi session seems to work beautifully so far03:55
wblazezakkkkkm: I'm sorry, I moved from a 9700 to a n900 and there is honestly no way I could switch back now :|03:56
Estel_zakkkkkm - You would need to make script that monitor dbus, and deauth sim on locking phone03:56
Estel_wblaze, thanks.03:56
zakkkkkmwblaze, heh i did it for Work, not cause i count it a better phone.03:56
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zakkkkkmim here now, to try and switch back :)03:57
Estel_I don't know if You watch conversation from beginnig (You may consider checking logs), I've written detailed info on problem here, earlier03:57
zakkkkkmEstel_, do you know of one?03:57
Estel_zakkkkkm, why lock code isnt enough?03:57
wblazezakkkkkm: understandable, just... I feel for you.03:58
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zakkkkkmlock code is enough, i just need it to happen at rocker pushing03:58
Estel_You understabd, that with such approach, every time You lock device, You would be disconnected to GSM?03:58
Estel_from*03:58
Estel_i see, but can You elaborate more on what You mean by "rocker pushing"?03:58
zakkkkkmi basically want the "press power button and click secure device" .. everytime i press power button or move the rocker03:58
Estel_ah i see03:59
Estel_honestly, I use power button + secure +lock manually, but its doable by editing systemui.xml03:59
Estel_for power button04:00
zakkkkkm?04:00
Estel_You can bind it for example to long press of power button...04:00
Estel_not such script exist04:00
zakkkkkmbind the secure action, to the power button itself?04:00
Estel_You would need to look how that thing is achieved originally by "secure device" button04:01
Estel_and replicated it for lock device state04:01
Estel_perfectly doable, but require some work and probably trial-and-error04:01
Estel_wblaze, as for xchat problem, good to know that I can always switch to irrsi and its working with ssl :)04:02
zakkkkkmpowerup_memainmenu_lockdevice i see.04:03
Estel_yea, but it send some values for it04:03
Estel_sorry, I'm no expert on those04:04
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Estel_brb, Im switching back to xchat from irGGu. The later would be great lightweight irc client for N900, but need some more love, it's quite rough at the edges04:05
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zakkkkkmcan you change the rocker config? :)04:07
Estel_damn, I don't remember, but it must be possible.04:08
zakkkkkmEstel_, sorry :(04:08
Estel_robbiethe1st use lock slider to abort backup in backupmenu, for example04:08
Estel_sorry for?04:08
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zakkkkkmbugging with questions04:08
Estel_search wiki or forum, slider must be somewhere04:08
Estel_are You joking, dude? no problem, this channel is for questions04:09
Estel_I've also bugged with questions a while ago :)04:09
Estel_hey, I got different idea for Your feature request04:10
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zakkkkkm?04:10
Estel_If You could get shortcut on desktop, that instantly (on press) secure device04:10
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Estel_that would be enough?04:10
Estel_easily achievable via .sh script and correctm.sudoers file04:11
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Estel_or, totally easy way, via application "applocker" and dummy script, blacklisted inside applocker04:11
zakkkkkmnormally right now, i have one of those cases that goes on belt, and i would put my blackberry on it and it would lock the phone. I am trying to achieve the same kind of "simple action"04:11
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zakkkkkmthats why iwas thinking of power button single press or slider04:12
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zakkkkkmim done with it, move the slider.. and it locks it04:12
zakkkkkmit turns off the screen, i dont get why i cant add it to secure at same time :(04:12
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Estel_first approach require to write simple script, that secure and lock device on execution04:13
Estel_hm, what about long "press" on proximity sensor?04:13
zakkkkkmproximity sensor?04:13
Estel_via ShortcutD package, You can bind command/script to camera button half press (long or short), and for proximity sensor coverage (outside call) long or short04:14
Estel_yea04:14
zakkkkkmi dont know what you mean by proximity sensor.04:15
Estel_so, our little securing script would be executed on long proximity sensor coverage, or long camera shutter half-press04:15
Estel_proximity sensor is that "thing" near Your front camera04:15
Estel_it makes phone touchscreen deactivate, when You talk on phone. Without it, You would push screen buttons with ear04:16
zakkkkkmthe square thing?04:16
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Estel_it's just few milimeters under camera04:16
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Estel_front camera04:16
zakkkkkmit can detect press?04:17
Estel_in fact, it detect when something is *very* close to it04:18
Estel_so, You can feel like jedi master, and execute things holding finger few milimeters above screen ;)04:18
Estel_To be 100% honest with You04:18
zakkkkkmso i can set it so if i cover my finger with it .. it will turn off and secure device?04:19
Estel_I think pushing power button, choosing "secure" and using slider (or tapping power button twice" is so easily learnable habit04:19
Estel_that it's not worth the effort, but if You want to achieve it anyway...04:19
Estel_You can install ShortcutD, write simple script securing/locking device04:20
Estel_and tell ShortcutD to execute it on covering proximity sensor for few seconds or for a moment04:20
Estel_(long or short "press")04:20
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zakkkkkmcool cool, going to try :) Thanks.04:22
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Guest166what's that program that runs commands, etc. based of GPS location/possibly mobile tower ID?04:39
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: pong04:44
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I gather you planned to add recovery-terminal to dsme-tool -f hildon-desktop ?04:45
DocScrutinizerif that's the plan, it's not that simple maybe04:46
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DocScrutinizerI guess dsmetool is async, i.e. a call to dsmetool will return before the -t or -f <process> actually terminated04:47
DocScrutinizerwe'd need to patch dsmetool, or kick it out completely for starting h-d04:48
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Estel_hello DocScrutinizer05:01
Estel_I'm just wondering, any clues about my "findings" about hostmode errors? (the one unrelated to booston)05:02
DocScrutinizernot yet, but thanks a lot for the verbose report. I just had no time to look into it closely05:03
DocScrutinizerdoesn't mean I plan to ignore it ;-)05:03
DocScrutinizerit's just so detailed that it will take some time to process it, and I recently had not that much spare time05:05
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Estel_thanks for answer and no worries, I just wanted to check if it was not "lost" due to many updated to single post05:11
Estel_You know, updates doesn't show as "new messages".05:11
DocScrutinizerEstel_: obviously the errors ("typos") in my originally published augmented booston were there all the time and would've spoiled it for everybody testing it, so it's evident nobody did before you, or they didn't bother to give feedback05:12
Estel_and no problem, my pleasure to test it ;)05:12
DocScrutinizerEstel_: I know. No worries, I'm looking into tmo for that05:12
Estel_hm, I thought it's impossible ;)05:12
Estel_i mean no one testing05:13
Estel_ho ever, I think its effect of "lets wait for new devel version"05:13
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DocScrutinizerusers like to install a package, but a simple "please copy this to a file XY then do chmod a+x XY" is obviously too much for most of them05:13
Estel_You know, it was one thing I promised myself to check someday, but havent got around it until yesterday05:14
Estel_true, and I'm afraid I also act like that many times, i.e manual things end up in pile of things to do at free time05:14
DocScrutinizerI ponder to publish a small script that is doing the wget and chmod stuff05:14
Estel_(btw, maybe its better to publish such things in devel - at least You'll have 100 reports with cries about it not working, because everyone use devel and will autoupdate :P)05:16
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DocScrutinizerhmm, yeah05:16
Estel_"release early, release often" :Pnot that I'm criticizing current approach.05:17
DocScrutinizerI asked MohammadAG about doing this, along with an overhaul of the GUI, I think back in February05:17
Estel_eh...05:17
Estel_I didn't wanted to sound rude, buts that exactly what about I've been thinking05:17
DocScrutinizermaybe April05:17
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Estel_lack of updates for H-E-N, even the "status" ones. No one sane except -devel beta to be polished.05:18
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Estel_Honestly, what is holding him / You all from publishing development stuff for hen? lack of time?05:19
Estel_It seems to me that You would also opt for it being released.05:19
DocScrutinizersure, just I'm not the devel of any code relating h-e-n (except the boost thingie)05:19
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Estel_at least i got such feeling from Your post with booston05:19
Estel_I see.05:19
DocScrutinizerh-e-n maintainer is MohammadAG05:19
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DocScrutinizeraccording to what's written in the app package description05:20
Estel_but You probably know why he doesn't want to do it?05:20
DocScrutinizertoo many other distracting things to do, I guess05:20
Estel_i see05:20
Estel_hey, but package description also say You're project admin ;)05:21
DocScrutinizerand then aiui h-e-n GUI is written by MohammadAG in a language that he's not that much interested in anymore nowadays05:21
Estel_dont get me wrong, I'm not demanding anything or searching whom to blame.05:22
DocScrutinizerI'm admin. Doesn't mean I can give orders to devels05:22
Estel_ah, I see05:22
DocScrutinizerI only suggest, or ask05:22
Estel_yes, yes. Understood. You know, I just wen through qwerty rant inside his last application05:22
Estel_so I may be quite distracted05:23
Estel_You know, attack from surprise ;)05:23
DocScrutinizeryeah05:23
DocScrutinizerEstel_: it's not quite obvious, but my augmented booston doesn't need any more the boostoff script. It's completely enough to just kill (ctrl-C) the script05:24
DocScrutinizerjust on a sidenote ^^^05:25
Estel_good to know05:25
Estel_thanks. Does it handle higher idle current draw problem?05:25
DocScrutinizerI'll have another look into the vboost led pattern thing. here it works, maybe the mce.ini I published back when also has some oopsies05:26
Estel_You know, the thing that need N900 to "think" wallcharger is vonnected05:26
Estel_hm05:26
DocScrutinizer(idle current) not yet, but I'll add this next05:26
Estel_To not misslead You, I'm ussing my own mce.ini, just copied Your pattern name and pattern settings from charging pattern, then edited priority and pattern itself inside editor05:27
Estel_aye :)05:27
DocScrutinizerit's actually a problem that *should* get fixed in kernel space05:27
Estel_maybe freemangordon or colin.stephane could do it? You tried to contact them?05:28
Estel_They seems to maintain kernel-power more than Pali, at least for now05:30
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DocScrutinizerno, as it's a matter of actually bugfixing the hostmode patches, not about just applying patches to the powerkernel05:32
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Estel_understood.05:33
DocScrutinizerfor a short time I hoped some other kernel hackers would join h-e-n team and pick up where paul left05:33
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DocScrutinizerI know about most kernel tweaks done for hostmode, but I'm not really into kernel coding business atm05:34
Estel_hm... lack of human power and no one tried? Or, maybe they're just ashamed to propose that, due to H-E-N glory? ;) no lubricating here.05:35
DocScrutinizereven less is anybody else into USB kernel driver hacking, it's a very special domain05:35
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Estel_By the way, it's one of the moments I really regret not having enough (even basic, to be honest) knowledge about it. And it makes me wonder how You guys "started", to get to point where You can "hack" such things as kernel as whole or USB kernel drivers05:36
DocScrutinizerEstel_: the syslog shows quite some rough edges of the hostmode patches05:37
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DocScrutinizerEstel_: (how we got there) for me it was like 200h of reading kernel sources, talking with gifted hackers like javispedro, paul etc, to finally get an idea how kernel USB driver does work05:38
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Estel_hehe, but it probably require some high ammount of base knowledge, to at least understabd such kernel sources?05:39
SpeedEvilStart with the datasheet of the chip - several thousand pages - find a dozen versions, and read closely for differenced, ...05:39
Estel_You know, You're talking to guy who can barely write shell script based on someone else work.05:40
DocScrutinizerwhen it comes to reading those musb_hdrc driver kernel sources, I guess there's not that much difference in how each of us both feels about that05:41
DocScrutinizer;-D05:42
Estel_I've also noticed that You guys (ones who actually code) almost totally doesn't involve in "politics" about how maemo should look in future and other blabla05:42
Estel_hahaha05:42
Estel_I guess coding guys doesn't have time for chit-chatting bullshit repeated over and over in multiple threads? ;)05:43
DocScrutinizerI don't have time and nerves for tmo at large05:43
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Estel_I think that's why I've created irc account - it seems very calm and easy here, without some "individuals" from tmo, You know what I mean05:47
Estel_btw, one lastquestion, if You don't mind05:48
Estel_You know autobuilder things perfectly, right?05:48
Estel_There is funny situation when I convinced one to-be dev to put his quite usefull program to repositories, and he got ,problem, and its a situation when two non-even coders are trying to help him go through autobuilgder.05:49
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Estel_reminds me of bling man guiding one with wooden leg05:50
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Estel_anyway, we almost managed to put 100% working program to repos05:50
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Estel_except, that its lacking files like icons etc.05:50
Estel_normally, they're to be found in 'data.tar' file05:51
Estel_but we don't have idea to to achieve this in autobuilder, despite reading it's documentation dozens of times and performing voodoo rituals.05:51
Estel_overlooking obvious, probably.05:52
Estel_DEveloper asked for that in forum, but hes probably not elaborative enough, cause only one response he get was to "check how others do it".05:52
Estel_Yea, we tried many times. and someone suggested that it may have something to do with makefile script05:53
Estel_no clues, ho ever. That's why I'm asking here. as last resort ;)05:53
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Estel_OK, it's 5 AM here, and my little Son is going to wake up in approximately 5 hours, so I'm off to get some sleep :-) Thanks for looking into my little report, and take Your time. If You need someone to test something before release, count me in!  BTW in case of any need (in which I doubt) You can ping me here, even if I'm outside, just include "Estel" in message. I'll search everyday irc log for that string, so I'm gonna read it anyway.06:01
Estel_See ya and goodnight.06:01
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Sazpaimon_guys, anyone around06:07
Sazpaimon_im trying to replace the digitizer but I cant figure out how it hooks up06:07
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DocScrutinizerEstel_: sorry I was busy with fixing router issues. Anyway I can't help much with autobuilder, you may have to wait until somebody else with more experience picks up on it06:29
Guest166is the Shepherd cron script the only/most developed tool out there for changing Profile/running command based on Cell tower ID?06:30
Guest166i thought there was a more mature location daemon for gps/location based jobs.06:30
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Sazpaimon_okay06:35
Sazpaimon_i managed to figure out where the digitizer goes06:35
DocScrutinizerI wonder what cron got to do with it, but then I dunno that Shepherd cron script06:35
Sazpaimon_but I cant seem to re-screw the six back screen screws06:35
Sazpaimon_i dont see where they screw into06:35
DocScrutinizeryay06:36
Sazpaimon_oh I see06:36
Sazpaimon_my old digitizer has this metal part in the back06:36
Sazpaimon_the new one does not...06:36
Sazpaimon_and i cant seem to remove it from the old one...06:37
Sazpaimon_http://maemoworld.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manual_Service_Level_1_2 page 18 step 4806:38
Guest166My impression was Shepherd just periodically ran through a list of job + criteria06:38
Sazpaimon_the metal bit on the digitizer06:38
Sazpaimon_this isnt in the new one shipped to me06:38
Sazpaimon_is this going to be a huge problem?06:38
Guest166and ran only the ones who;'s criteria matched, eg: wifi location, bluetooth on, etc.06:38
Sazpaimon_wait06:39
Sazpaimon_this thing doesnt even have a place to put the earpiece!06:39
Sazpaimon_oh my god06:39
Sazpaimon_what the fuck is this06:40
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wblazeSazpaimon__: isn't that one you have to cut?07:00
Sazpaimon__wblaze, huh07:08
Sazpaimon__wblaze, no, I mean the meal piece attached directly to the digitizer07:08
wblazeoh, digitizer, seems I managed to gloss over that07:09
Sazpaimon__I dont know how this came from the factory without the metal backing07:09
Sazpaimon__its just the plastic part07:09
wblazewhen I was replacing parts, I managed to save that :|07:11
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wblaze120Km/h off the top of a car, and the screen assembly wasn't even scratched, hah07:11
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wblazebut, the short version is - ignore me, I mistook parts and can't help with this one, heh07:20
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Sazpaimonso wait08:58
Sazpaimoni see a lot of listings for N900 digitizers without the frame08:58
Sazpaimonhow does that even work08:58
Sazpaimonisnt the frame physically attached to the digitizer?08:58
jacekowskino08:59
jacekowskiit's glued08:59
Sazpaimonokay so my point still stands09:00
Sazpaimonwhats the point of the digitizer without the frame attached09:00
Sazpaimonafaik you cant get the frame seperate09:00
cehtehprofit :)09:00
jacekowskiyou can09:00
Sazpaimonand getting the frame off of an existing digitizer isnt easy, it not downright impossible09:01
cehtehprolly not that easy to reglue in the kitchen09:01
cehtehwarming up, peeling, clean, glue the new one, without dust and you only have one try09:02
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Sazpaimonalso the digitizer i got without the frame stopped working after one try09:04
jacekowskithat's because you broke it09:04
Sazpaimonthe leads look like they got scratched09:04
Sazpaimoni dont know how09:04
jacekowskiit's same digitiser as nokia is installing09:04
SazpaimonI followed the service manual exactly09:04
jacekowskithey just have better kung-fu than you do09:04
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Sazpaimonthat said this thing is useless without the frame09:04
Sazpaimoni guess I'll settle with an OEM digitizer on the cheap09:05
jacekowskinokia gets them without frame09:05
jacekowskiand then assembles everything09:05
cehtehwell they have clean rooms and assembly machines for that09:05
Sazpaimonthe service manual never said anything about the frame09:05
jacekowskibut with/without frame cost pretty much the same09:05
jacekowskiSazpaimon: not in service09:05
jacekowskiSazpaimon: when they make device first time09:05
Sazpaimonwell its not much use for me09:05
Sazpaimonis it09:06
jacekowskithat's when they assemble digitiser09:06
Sazpaimonhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/New-OEM-Touch-Screen-Digitizer-Frame-Nokia-N900-/280719181900?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415c2ac84c09:06
jacekowskinokia care places and stuff get already assembled ones to replace09:06
Sazpaimon$25 for the digitizer?09:06
jacekowskiSazpaimon: not bad09:06
Sazpaimonbut its OEM09:06
Sazpaimonnot genuine nokia09:06
Sazpaimon:/09:06
jacekowskiekhm09:06
jacekowskithat's the same09:06
Sazpaimonnot all the time09:07
jacekowskiOEM - original equipment manufacturer09:07
Sazpaimonunless it says genuine nokia it can be from any plant09:07
jacekowskiit's same company that makes them for nokia09:07
cehtehi doubt they have some other company doing compatible parts09:08
cehtehthe fake phones are lookalikes but the hardware isnt compatible09:08
jacekowskiSazpaimon: it's same thing as with cars09:08
jacekowskiSazpaimon: manufacturers don't really make parts for it09:08
cehtehand there is no big market to create compatible replacements parts09:08
Sazpaimon<cehteh> i doubt they have some other company doing compatible parts09:08
Sazpaimonoh yeah?09:08
Sazpaimonhttp://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Screen-Display-Nokia-Prying/dp/B005G5WZGG09:09
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jacekowskiSazpaimon: neewer is a shop that rebrands OEM stuff09:09
cehtehSazpaimon: the LCD is some stock thing, i forgot the manufacturer but there are specs available somewhere09:09
cehtehwhile the brezel and digitizer is exclusive for the n90009:10
Sazpaimonanyway I guess I'll grab that digitizer09:10
Sazpaimoni wish i could use my old digitizer, but its peeled09:10
Sazpaimonand the contacts are ripped09:10
Sazpaimon:/09:10
Sazpaimonand this new one has broken leads09:10
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Sazpaimoni still dont know why, my test connection worked perfectly fine09:11
cehtehmy screen protector got serious scratches meanwhile the outer layer is damaged, i should apply a new one :P09:11
Sazpaimonand on my second connection the screen vibrated when i touched it, but it didnt respond to anything09:11
Sazpaimonthen i tried to reconnect it, and it stopped vibrating on touch too09:11
Sazpaimon"Item location: 深圳市, 廣東省, China"09:12
Sazpaimonfml09:12
SazpaimonF09:12
SazpaimonM09:12
SazpaimonL09:12
Sazpaimoni bought this last digitizer, it took 30 days to arrive09:12
archl;p09:12
Sazpaimoncurrently i have an without a front face taped together as my replacement phone09:13
archlI thought Im in #ubuntu-cn channel09:13
Sazpaimon*an E7109:13
SazpaimonE71 is a great phone, when it has all its parts09:13
archlSazpaimon:  try to buy a N900 from China and reflash it. 95% new looking cost only 900 local currency.09:14
archlthats about $14009:14
archlif you want to.09:14
Sazpaimonim not going to spend any more large bills on an N90009:14
Sazpaimon$30 is the max im going to waste on this phone09:15
archlSazpaimon:  right,09:15
Sazpaimonno sense keeping a dying phone alive more than I have to09:15
Sazpaimonsaving up for an N9 anyway09:15
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cehtehSazpaimon: if your phone is dead you can send it to me for scraping it :P09:15
Sazpaimonits not dead09:16
cehtehi dont plan to buy a n909:16
SazpaimonI have a working LCD09:16
ds3has the cheap N900 sales arrived yet?09:16
Sazpaimonjust need a new digitizer09:16
cehtehi could need a new camera module09:16
SazpaimonI can probably use it with VNC09:16
archlN900 cheap sales start soon.09:16
cehtehds3: n900 are mostly out of stock only some shops have some left09:16
archlas N9 release.09:16
ds3cehteh: but they don't seem to be discounted like how the N810's were09:17
cehtehjust because they dont have any devices anymore09:17
ds3do we know for sure if the N9 will take a full size sim or not?09:17
Sazpaimonmicrosim09:18
cehtehfull size?09:18
ds3full size vs microsim09:18
cehtehthats credit card :P09:18
SazpaimonN9 is microsim09:18
archln9 take cutting full size.09:18
ds3arrg09:18
ds3so there is no successor phone that can take the same sim as the N900?!09:19
Sazpaimonokay so getting this OEM digitizer with attached frame is basically what the nokia care guys would get09:19
Sazpaimonright?09:19
archlN950?09:19
archlHow to get Nokia manufacturing N950!09:19
ds3but the N950 is not offered for sale, right?09:19
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archlnot in Nokia Plan. I guess, currently, Meego is better than WP7 in their labs.09:21
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ds3BAH so there is no successor that can use a normal full sim :(09:23
fortytwoIf you're careful you can always cut your current SIM down to size ;)09:24
cehtehfull sim isnt used since the 80's anymore09:24
fortytwoThat does work IIRC09:24
cehtehfull sim is credit card size! :P09:24
cehtehwhat you use in the n900 is already a stamped out mini sim09:25
fortytwoHaha, looks like I need to keep an eye out for a full size one :P09:25
cehtehhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_Identity_Module#Formats09:25
cehtehiirc the motorola bones used full sims09:26
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KrayonWORKI've got a Motorola that uses the full size09:37
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cehtehKrayonWORK: old one?09:38
KrayonWORKYeah, it's cool as.  I have 2 batteries and an external charger too, wanna buy?09:40
KrayonWORK:P09:40
cehtehwhich one?09:40
cehtehdoes it even work with modern low power/voltage sim cards? or does it fry them?09:41
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KrayonWORKI've not used it in many many years so who knows :P09:44
KrayonWORKThe batteries are probably screwed too :/09:44
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KrayonWORKIt's the 7500 I believe: http://images.google.com.au/images?q=motorola+7500&hl=en09:45
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psycho_oreos~aegis10:02
infobotfrom memory, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or ...10:02
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* DocScrutinizer trows a motorola 620 at KrayonWORK10:17
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KrayonWORKDocScrutinizer: :P  A V620? Because that's not NEARLY as old school as my 750010:20
KrayonWORKOr is it this: http://www.oaktreevintage.com/web_photos/Telephones/Motorola_Cellular-One_Cell-Phone_web.jpg10:21
KrayonWORK'cause you win if so.10:21
DocScrutinizerhttp://handy-sammler.de/Handys/motorola_td1_620.htm10:22
KrayonWORKExtra points for THIS one: http://files.sharenator.com/old_motorola_mobile_phone_Think_your_mobile_phone_is_too_big_pics-s450x299-229-580.png10:22
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cehtehKrayonWORK: you didnt seen the first mobile ones :P10:23
DocScrutinizer""Made in Germany by Motorola"" ;-D10:24
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cehtehwell the first ones where "portable" .. not "mobile" :)10:25
ds3fine. mini SIM10:26
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KrayonWORKDocScrutinizer: From what documentation I can find, yours came out 1995, mine 1994.10:27
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DocScrutinizerbut I can throw sharper10:27
KrayonWORKcehteh: Heh, reminds me of my step father's first ... portable computer, something like this: http://oldcomputers.net/pics/osborne1.jpg10:27
KrayonWORKDocScrutinizer: Heh yeah OK, you win :P10:28
KrayonWORKweighed about 7 million KG that thing.10:28
cehtehyeah the osborne was a classic :) and later the comodore sx-6410:28
DocScrutinizerwouldn't know how to even test this brick, with the friggin crdit card size SIM it needs10:28
KrayonWORKActually, now I think about it, I believe his was an IBM portable of some kind.10:29
KrayonWORKDocScrutinizer: Here in Australia most sims still come in that size10:29
KrayonWORKThough I guess as cehteh says if thye've changed the voltage or something maybe it wouldn't work :P10:29
FIQ|n900portable aka "you can move it but you don't want to"10:30
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KrayonWORKFIQ|n900: heh yeah exactly.10:30
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KrayonWORKOne of the Motorola's I have sold on eBay for $30 :P  Was for charity though10:30
DocScrutinizerFIQ|n900: so it's been very modern wrt this. The most expensive laptops are quite the same nowadays10:31
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DocScrutinizerI'd like to hear of a single user that got h-e-n *working* with new PK4810:33
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DocScrutinizerhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1087244#post108724410:36
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Trewasnokia started taking pre-orders for N9 in finland, 699 euros for 64gb model... I would say "lol", except that I never say that10:45
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JartzaI already dismissed the N910:46
Jartzatoo late10:46
Corsacdo we know the final specs?10:47
FIQ|n9006999 euros...10:47
FIQ|n900s/999/99/10:47
infobotFIQ|n900 meant: 699 euros...10:47
JartzaI could pay 450e max10:48
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FIQ|n900i payed 6k SEK for N900 :310:48
FIQ|n900dunno how much that's in euro...10:48
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Corsac  6000 * SEK = approx. EUR 667.3711110:49
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CorsacI think I paid around ~200€ with 1y contract10:50
FIQ|n900gcalc says 65510:50
FIQ|n900but yeah, somewhere around that10:50
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JartzaI paid 450 for N90010:51
FIQ|n900N9 doesn't have a keyboard10:51
Jartzaeuros10:51
FIQ|n900Therefore, I will not buy N910:51
FIQ|n900at all10:51
FIQ|n900not that i would rush and buy if it had, but then i would look at it as an eventual successor when my N900 breaks10:52
* hiemanshu looks at his N950 and goes MEH10:52
FIQ|n900screw you D:10:53
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FIQ|n900Argh, i don't like capacitive touch screens either10:53
FIQ|n900Seriously, I always use my nails for precision on my N90010:53
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FIQ|n900It's impossible, more or less, to do that on things like galaxy s2, iphone, whatever uses capacitive screens10:54
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Choomyou can use your fingertips on a capacitive screen for precision too10:55
Choomnals are not needed10:55
FIQ|n900but i'm used to it :D10:56
edheldilI used to carry something similar to this phone: http://www.retrobrick.com/1000.html10:56
FIQ|n900i will have a hard time using a new phone the first week/weeks due to that10:56
Choomthe capacitive screens on the ipad / iphone sense my fingers without almost any pressure, sometimes even before I sense the screen10:56
FIQ|n900but of course you will get used to it sooner or later10:57
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ChoomI am kinda tempted to order an N9 even though I'm not gonna be using it10:58
Choomthough the fact that nokia isn't selling them almost anywhere will make it difficult10:59
FIQ|n900does it still come with xterm installed per default? :310:59
psycho_oreosdifficult but not impossible10:59
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psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, ping11:14
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DocScrutinizerpong11:16
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psycho_oreoswhen you were referring to new kp48, you mean the one that colin.stephane and freemangordon were building up? (aka power49)? or just power48 from extras-devel?11:16
DocScrutinizerlatter11:17
psycho_oreospower48 from extras-kernel? I have it working on my other N900 (with cssu maemo15 installed)11:17
DocScrutinizerfreemanG is building PK now? great, this guy is incredible11:17
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psycho_oreosI don't know if he's actually building it but he's contributing heaps of patches :)11:18
DocScrutinizerthat's no the question. Do you have h-e-n *working* with it11:18
psycho_oreosyes, I have sandisk 32GB flash drive attached to my other N900 and it is working.. the flash drive is mounted and I could see the contents11:19
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DocScrutinizerOK, mayn thanks11:19
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psycho_oreosalso I should add that I have not applied any patches mentioned on t.m.o. threads.. this is just h-e-n from extras-devel with no jrbme script nor that modded booston11:20
psycho_oreosbut no worries :)11:20
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: could you do a `which booston` please11:29
DocScrutinizerand a `which i2xget`11:29
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, sure, moment please11:29
DocScrutinizerand a `which i2cget`11:29
psycho_oreoswhich booston == /usr/sbin/booston, which i2cget == /usr/sbin/i2cget11:31
DocScrutinizer(my development system is so heavily messed up / tweaked from all the modding I did, I dunno where those are usually)11:31
DocScrutinizerthanks very much11:31
psycho_oreosseems like those files are in the directories that are in $PATH :)11:31
psycho_oreosnw11:31
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psycho_oreoslol my rootfs on both my N900 are butchered.. I've been ignoring warnings that you should never install scratchbox tools on your N900 directly ;D11:32
* psycho_oreos thinks he'll get told someday for all that mess11:33
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cehtehpsycho_oreos: man chroot :P11:42
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, hahaha just saw your thread and noticed my typo :D extras-kernel.. lolwtf.. I meant extras-devel.. hahaha my bad11:43
psycho_oreoscehteh, indeed but I guess I was rather lazy.. heh still somewhat am :p11:43
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: eh? not even noticed it. Should I worry?11:43
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, nevermind.. I'll post my self mocking reply :D11:45
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psycho_oreosgotta love xchat with black background and grey text foreground, that plus small fonts and tiredness factor lol11:46
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robbiethe1stheh. transferring files onto a NFS mount *really* drains the battery12:23
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DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: hey morning12:34
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: moo12:34
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DocScrutinizertzz12:34
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DocScrutinizer51~ping14:16
infobot~pong14:16
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ildarboinc14:20
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rdDoes anybody sync the KDE addressbook with the n900 address book?14:55
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ildarhi15:05
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ildarI like the idea to sync every device to one central addr.book15:06
ildarGoogle is very good at it15:06
ildarhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Sync#Synchronising_with_Google15:06
ildarjust find how to sync your kaddr to google15:07
chem|stildar: never worked for me, it synced the addresses from google to my device but not the way back15:08
ildarhmmm15:08
ildardidn't try dev->Google yet15:08
chem|stsome people have contacts working but no calender, some have working both...15:09
ildarI have both15:09
ildarbut didn't try dev->Google as I said15:10
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chem|stildar: an initial sync does both15:14
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ildarahhh!15:14
ildarI see15:14
ildarI almost don't use calendar15:14
ildarso I can't be sure about it15:14
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ShadowJKheh, loaded "tomato" on my Linksys WRT54GL wifi accesspoint. My N800 and N810 began consuming alot less power. Turns out they're not receiving and broadcast traffic anymore. Yay for saving power. Oops they're no longer pingable or reachable over ssh.15:42
ildar:)15:43
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RST38hDon't install various funky shit! =)15:46
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ShadowJKActually I'm not sure if it did this with stock firmware too, as I had it placed in an area of the house I would never have placed Nxxx in and then tried access from another device15:47
RST38hStarting with something like PR1.1, N900 pinged really good15:47
RST38hBefore that - trouble15:47
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DocScrutinizermy devices all ping fine here, unless DNS lease times out and device fails to renew it15:51
DocScrutinizerDHCP lease?15:51
DocScrutinizerfunny effect: device can talk to internet just fine (ARP), but no way to ssh to device (DNS)15:52
SpeedEvilMy solution to that.15:53
SpeedEvilstatic IP15:53
DocScrutinizermeh, my router (new since lightning stroke) *has* static IP configured but it seems there's a bug in that crappy D-Link DHCP-server implementation15:54
DocScrutinizernot even the logs of router mention any DHCP event, and WLAN on N900 returned with "Can't connect. Didn't get valid IP"15:55
DocScrutinizerdunno if booting router, or booting N900 fixed it. I guess none of both, I had to redo the static IP DHCP config on router, to make it work again15:56
* DocScrutinizer is frowning on "DHCP lease timeout: -1" for the static IPs15:57
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edheldilDocScrutinizer:  Consider reflashing the router to openwrt. Look here for supported iron: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start#d-link16:00
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DocScrutinizeredheldil: seems D3E revision isn't supported16:11
DocScrutinizerDIR-61516:11
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DocScrutinizerit has other idiocies as well: e.g. you can't define schedules (for fw rules, interface uptime etc) that span across midnight16:13
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* ShadowJK has static IP configured on client side16:14
DocScrutinizera schedule that's active from 23:00 to 22:00 next day isn't possoble16:14
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I doubt that can help when router doesn't route anymore16:15
DocScrutinizerseems the device falls out of router's ARP table16:15
ildarÉÎÕ ÆÄÄ16:15
ildaroops16:15
ildarbye all16:15
DocScrutinizeror dunno what exactly16:15
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DocScrutinizernah, probably router16:16
edheldilDocScrutinizer:  too bad, sorry16:16
DocScrutinizerrouter's local DNS fails16:16
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DocScrutinizerI'm not really familiar how 192.168.1.33 pings 192.168.1.4416:17
ShadowJKno dns, no dhcp needed for that16:17
DocScrutinizermaybe .33 sends out an ARP request?16:18
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ShadowJKyes16:18
ShadowJKto broadcast16:18
DocScrutinizerwho_is_.4416:18
DocScrutinizerthen it's probably my local ARP table on linux that fscks up, seens this frequently16:19
edheldilDocScrutinizer:  d3e is not specifically listed, but not specifically unlisted either.16:19
DocScrutinizersomething's odd with this TCP-IP stack and associated crap on that openSuse16:19
ShadowJKentries in arp tables are pretty short lived16:19
DocScrutinizerfrequently when I "unplug the ethernet cable" I need a "/etc/init.d/network restart" if there's been a data transmission during unplugging16:21
DocScrutinizersth with the kernel network-card driver fscks up16:21
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DocScrutinizeredheldil: indeed, but I'm not too happy with it not being listed16:22
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Treibholzhas anybody tried yet to install a regular Debian on the n900?16:59
e0xreason for reboot loop ?17:00
Treibholze0x: no, not yet :-)17:00
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e0xi mean , what are the common reason for reboot loop17:01
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DocScrutinizerusually roofs no-free-space, kernel not matching modules, and desktop widgets going apeshit causing >3 segfaults of h-d in 2 min17:02
DocScrutinizerI guess that's the top 3, in no particular sorting order17:03
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DocScrutinizerthen there's also PEBKAC17:03
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DocScrutinizerI.E. messing up init scripts etc17:03
e0xthen i and fuck, it first started loosing all telephony function (  i check and i see that the sim card was a little floofy ) i fix that now with 80% of battery i lose the telephony function againd i reboot it and is on reboot loop now , i remove the battery and do the same when i put it back again17:04
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DocScrutinizereeew17:04
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DocScrutinizerreflash as long as battery is fresh enough17:04
e0x:(17:06
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RST38h"I wish NASA would finance future missions by selling interestingly packaged astronaut foods in general" -- timothy@Slashdot17:07
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DocScrutinizere0x: not to play the partypooper, but it sounds like a hw defect17:07
e0xlast night happen me to too but i left it connect to the wall charge and boot up ( the battery was low )17:07
Sazpaimonso, until I get ANOTHER replacement digitizer (the one I ordered last month came without the frame), I'm stuck on my E7117:08
e0xDocScrutinizer: yes i think the same17:08
e0xo drop it a few time17:08
e0xs/o/i17:08
Sazpaimonand my E71 is missing the front part of the casing17:08
e0xDocScrutinizer: any idea what hardware can i check ?17:08
Sazpaimonso ive taped together the keypad onto the phone and around the screen for protection17:08
Sazpaimonits serioulsy the most ghetto thing ever17:08
DocScrutinizerprobably no hope to check any hw17:08
DocScrutinizerreflash17:08
e0xok17:08
DocScrutinizerhope for the best17:09
e0xi will try boot it again to save some data and then reflash17:09
Sazpaimonim failing to understand why someone would sell an N900 digitizer without the metal frame17:09
e0xi will the the wall charge thing again17:09
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Sazpaimoni get that they came from the factory like that, but its pretty much useless without the frame17:09
DocScrutinizermetal frame?17:10
Sazpaimonyes, the metal part behind the digitizer17:10
Sazpaimonwhere the earpiece is attached to and where the screws go into17:11
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Sazpaimonwithout it its just the plastic piece17:11
Sazpaimonhttp://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/2/8/4/2/7/2/webimg/494732953_o.jpg?nc=435 here's what it should b17:12
Sazpaimon*be17:12
Sazpaimonhttp://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/gamerlined66/M01022-34.jpg this is what I ended up getting17:13
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DocScrutinizerhmm, right. Though you should be able to separate the transparent plastic from old metal frame17:21
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DocScrutinizerthe possibly mount the new digitizer touchpad with doublesided sticky or dunno what17:22
SpeedEvilHeating the old one to ~80C may make it lots easier to unpeel17:22
DocScrutinizeryeah17:22
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* DocScrutinizer laughs at french politicians calling a potential http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticality_accident "no atomic incident but an industrial incident"18:01
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crashanddieThat incident was horsecrap.18:07
crashanddieIt's a slip up.18:07
crashanddieWho the fuck cares, really.18:08
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_trinehttp://www.pwnieexpress.com/pwn_phone.html is this another xxx|666 scam18:21
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e0xDocScrutinizer: hmm i put back the battery and boot normal18:48
e0xwell is booting normal so far18:48
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e0xwarning a unxpected reboot occured, Your Custom kernel settings ware NOT loaded18:50
e0xany idea ?18:50
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DocScrutinizer51meh18:53
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DocScrutinizersounds like powerkernel with any one of those mostly insane tweaking GUIs18:56
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DocScrutinizerif ! [ -e /var/powerkernel/bootfailedflag ]; then echo "it failed!" >/var/powerkernelgui/bootfailedflag; do_random_bs_and_OC_to_3GHz; rm /var/powerkernelgui/bootfailedflag; fi;18:59
DocScrutinizergood luck with hoping for a sync() prior to do_random_bs_and_OC_to_3GHz X-P19:00
rm_workif [ text = 'rm' ]; then echo "PING RM_YOU"; fi;19:00
DocScrutinizerdon't let noobs mess with your system's kernel settings19:00
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DocScrutinizerrm_work: you were about to do some brightness stuff, no?19:06
rm_worki gave up19:07
DocScrutinizerhmm19:07
rm_worki got way too discouraged by everyone telling me it was useless19:07
rm_workstarted working on other stuff19:07
rm_worklike pandora19:07
rm_work(the radio client, not the board)19:07
DocScrutinizeraah19:07
rm_workand package management solutions19:08
DocScrutinizeryeah, HARM19:08
DocScrutinizerand fsckaegis19:08
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rm_workPackRat / non-obs-repos19:08
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DocScrutinizerI gave up on HARM more or less19:09
DocScrutinizertoo much injury in HARM19:10
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DocScrutinizerrm_work: just wondered if you know details about ALS and mce + plugins, esp /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-als.so19:12
rm_worknope :( i messed with it a bit but19:13
DocScrutinizerthere's that odd effect of indicator RGB LED going dim on pattern activation when bright sun shines into ALS19:13
rm_worknot sure exactly about the libfilter ones19:13
rm_workthose are seperate from what i was working with19:13
DocScrutinizer:nod:19:14
DocScrutinizerthanks19:14
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e0xDocScrutinizer: i have power kernel but not OC , i just install it for use mobilespot20:06
e0xi will do a reflash20:06
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Estel_hello there - could anyone experienced with autobuilder packaging help me?20:45
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Estel_if anyone, who did any successul package uploading will read this, please just ping me and I'll give details. Thanks in advance.20:47
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Estel_disclaimer: I'm just looking for info, *not* for someone to upload package for me. Really ;)20:48
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SpeedEvilhttp://i.imgur.com/yAxd9.jpg - Unicode fail.21:12
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SazpaimonSpeedEvil, It got to its destination21:27
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Sazpaimonso good on the post office21:27
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Estel_~ping21:42
infobot~pong21:42
Estel_~tw4030_usb21:43
DocScrutinizer51twl4030?21:43
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DocScrutinizer51I doubt there's any such factoid21:44
Estel_hey there, I was just checking how good infobot database is ;)21:44
DocScrutinizer51~listkeys 403021:44
infobotFactoid search of '4030' by key (9): zip 84030 ;; zip 4030 ;; zip 40309 ;; zip 44030 ;; zip 74030 ;; zip 94030 ;; zip 14030 ;; zip 24030 ;; zip 64030.21:44
DocScrutinizer51~listvalues 403021:45
infobotFactoid search of '4030' by value (3): rfc1168 ;; ubifs ;; rfc 1168.21:45
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Estel_I got no idea how it works, lol. You won't believe, but yesterday was my first contact with irc, I just saw logs and though that much valuable info is shared here21:45
Estel_+ less latency compared to tmo, for some things21:46
Estel_anyway, still no luck about autobuilder21:46
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Estel_it must be common info - almost every package use that, Well, I guess people got their time occupied21:47
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DocScrutinizerEstel_: you should repeat a terse description of your problem with autobuilder. There are a few experts around here every now and then22:46
DocScrutinizerEstel_: anyway see22:47
DocScrutinizer~ask22:47
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.22:47
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DocScrutinizerEstel_: nobody's going to ping you to ask for details. If your problem can't be described in one sentence, then you probably need to think it over again22:49
Estel_thanks DocScrutinizer22:49
Estel_i just wanted to not spam channel about my question over and over, but rule of thumb acknowledged.22:50
* Sicelo always liked the part : "e are all here voluntarily or _against our will._" lol22:51
Estel_hey there, I got problem with packaging through autobuilder. Despite reading whole manual, I can't seem to find how add to package specific files (graphic, for example), the ones that normally sits in 'data.tar'. I suspect that this got something to do with makefile, but no idea further.22:52
Estel_tense enough, or do You think I shall make it more like newspaper title? ;-)22:52
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Estel_I know irc is for short sentences - rather, but I fear of stripping it too much of actual sense.22:54
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DocScrutinizerEstel_: I think that's been quite appropriate. send a link to the file you suspect is incorrect, so others can look into it23:05
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DocScrutinizeralso actually asking for this (looking into the file) is better than just listing facts, as the answer to this might be "so what?"23:06
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, thanks. Ho ever, there is no problematic file - I just thing it *may* be achievable via 'makefile', but I dont have idea how, searching doesnt help either.23:57
Estel_I got idea I just overlook obvious, but two other people also can't seem to find it, so maybe it's obvious only if You already know it ;-)23:58
Estel_anyway, thank You for trying to help and warning me about certain habits here ;)23:59

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