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| vdv | DocScrutinizer, thanks, i'll look at it | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer | /join #openmoko-cdevel | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | see /topic | 00:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Damn errant pings. | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 00:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | frals, can you go mess up the people in the DDP shipping office, please? | 00:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, "Widgets _GA_" | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | MUHAHA | 00:01 |
| frals | GeneralAntilles: dunno whos doing that, sorry ;) | 00:02 |
| gri_ | I can still order a second n950 | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet this drives you ga-ga | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | frals, liar. | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's YOU isn't it?! | 00:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ARRRGH wlan settings flashed dead | 00:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ARRGH pubkey nuked | 00:08 |
| ProfPutz | you are a fucking coward doc | 00:09 |
| ProfPutz | Angs | 00:10 |
| ProfPutz | Angst | 00:10 |
| ProfPutz | Mama mama | 00:10 |
| ProfPutz | You are a little worm | 00:10 |
| ProfPutz | So shut the fuck up or i will make you | 00:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | That's cool. | 00:13 |
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| divan | I've tested three different screencast methods (vnc, x11grab/ffmpeg and tv-tuner). The tv-tuner is obviously best, here is video example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meTeTCSuCcc (or http://vimeo.com/26208659). It was recorded using vlc and AverMedia TV tuner. | 00:17 |
| divan | Is there any wiki page on n900 screencasting? | 00:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10174?sort=4 date/timepickers | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | obsolete but nice vs modern unusable butt-ugly | 00:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what a stupid brain donator is that? | 00:23 |
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| *** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b ProfPutz!*@* | 00:23 | |
| *** ProfPutz was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) | 00:23 | |
| javispedro | btw, my n950 is already at the dhl airport warehouse | 00:24 |
| * javispedro was considering going there and pestering whoever was there, but sadly I have some work. | 00:24 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | profputz == pupnick on gasoline? | 00:29 |
| javispedro | hey | 00:30 |
| javispedro | he wasn't that bad :) | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | no but similar when in his worst mood -IP resolves to Frankfurt | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know pupnik lives in Frankfurt | 00:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | esp the diction - though german now . is amazing similar, from "sentence" to "sentence" | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | next time I will throw a pupnik bait ;-) | 00:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stay away from the dark liquor kids. | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp when it smells a bit like gasoline | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | now that's been a day... one selfkick one kick one kickban one kline-revert one brick&flash | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus a lot of "fun" | 00:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: (already in warehouse) I offer you to test another few nifty ways to brick mine - til when it's monday in your TZ :) | 00:43 |
| * DocScrutinizer just did a ssh-copy-id ;-D | 00:44 | |
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| vdv | is it safe to uninstall U-boot? will maemo boot then correctly? | 00:45 |
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| vdv | i've installed U-boot because of meego | 00:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you can't install uBoot - you'll always install a kernel with integrated uBoot | 00:46 |
| vdv | ok, i've installed U-boot PR1.3 package from repo | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it's striongly deprecated to uninstall kernels (and on this behalf, uBoot) - you need to *install* a kernel without uBoot | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | analog to "unisntalling" powerkernel being a really stupid idea | 00:48 |
| vdv | what happens if i install now nitdroid? | 00:48 |
| vdv | with it's "autoinstaller" | 00:48 |
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| vdv | will it overwrite "u-booted kernel"? | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | nitdroid uses multiboot which is a completely different conflicting dirty hack | 00:50 |
| vdv | i.e. i should first install normal kernel, and only then nitdroid? | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | and yes, it probably will overwrite uBoot(-kernel) as it flashes a "new" kernel on every boot | 00:50 |
| vdv | oh | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | uBoot and multiboot don't play together OOTB. But please check this on a multiboot or android thread, in tmo | 00:51 |
| vdv | i hate meego, it's completely useless | 00:51 |
| vdv | think nitdroid too | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'll talk different when something (e.g multiboot/nitdroid) has messed up your rootfs so you can't boot maemo anymore, but for a lucky incidance the kernel incl uBoot is intact and allows boot of meego, so you can fix maemo rootfs from "outside" | 00:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alas multiboot has the annoying habit to ruin kernels as well, not only rootfs | 00:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | still you may be able to boot a working meego on a MMC card, via flasher ramload | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | but that's of limited use then, as the mess multiboot creates is fubar | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ergo -> reflash anyway | 00:56 |
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| javispedro | when X-Fade mentioned that building on OBS currently causes tons of warnings, which warnings was he talking about? Want to bet? =) | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, where's some backup app on that thing? | 01:00 |
| javispedro | no bets? | 01:01 |
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| javispedro | well, of course, the warning that is repeated a bazillion times is "No AEGIS_HASH_FDS environment" | 01:01 |
| javispedro | all hail aegis! | 01:02 |
| MohammadAG | it's been over 9 months since I had a bootloop | 01:02 |
| MohammadAG | but thanks to kernel-power v48, I can feel like a noob again | 01:02 |
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| MohammadAG | where's that PR1.3 omap1 binary again | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: o.O | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf | 01:03 |
| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: what's your overall impression right now? | 01:04 |
| Corsac | (both on hw and sw) | 01:04 |
| MohammadAG | Aegis rocks, obviously | 01:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | c-ts is a royal PITA that often refuses to work for no clear reason (found operating the device without "electrical closed loop" via other hand usually fails) | 01:05 |
| javispedro | uh. | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | the GUI is amazingly well designed and consistent | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | CPU et all fast like hell | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, "notes" app, try writint "test" 10 times, no correcting self allowed. How any successful? | 01:06 |
| MohammadAG | TP module works well | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | aegis is a complete showstopper | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | as expected | 01:07 |
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| MohammadAG | figured out open mode yet? | 01:07 |
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| MohammadAG | tried the new flasher? | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | might mitigate when some guru bothers to write a mini-howto | 01:07 |
| javispedro | I bet that the way to enter open mode is to just build a new kernel without aegis ;) | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ??? | 01:07 |
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| MohammadAG | flasher-3.6 I think | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: the device of course *is* in developer mode, aka "as open as it gets" | 01:08 |
| MohammadAG | no | 01:08 |
| MohammadAG | Closed -> Developer -> Open | 01:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 01:08 |
| MohammadAG | with open being the most open | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | used one-click-flasher as I didn't feel like extracting the image from that blob | 01:09 |
| orangey | DocScrutinizer: Thank you for your help. Searching now | 01:09 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, flasher has a shitload of new options | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 01:09 |
| javispedro | purging aegis from the kernel seems trivial =) | 01:09 |
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| ShadowJK | so it's show-stopped in developer mode too? | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | I obviously don't need a single one of them, also didn't find any tarball of any flasher, just .deb | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, ShadowJK - definitely | 01:10 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23200&postcount=181 | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: read chanlog of this day, for lulz | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Devmode is just for root, etc. | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not for disabling aegis. | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's open mode | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | No idea how to enable it, though. | 01:10 |
| MohammadAG | developer mode is just a metapackage | 01:10 |
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| javispedro | obs is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooow | 01:11 |
| javispedro | being under qemu sure takes its hit | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals suggested a echo 0>foo; echo 0>bar; reboot | 01:11 |
| javispedro | oh | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | and meant "but that for sure will brick *your* devices" | 01:12 |
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| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: so the assertion that running an untrusted binary would automagically switch to open mode was just plain wrong | 01:12 |
| MohammadAG | foo and bar are obviously outside sysfs though right? | 01:12 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: yes, they where in /etc | 01:13 |
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| javispedro | securityfs has some enforce and enable tunables | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: running it will implicitly mean switching to tainted mode. the point is you can't run it that simply | 01:13 |
| javispedro | but from reading the source they're probably locked. | 01:13 |
| MohammadAG | open mode should get you into a bootable state DocScrutinizer | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG | I'm leaving on Monday btw | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG | so will probably get my N950 after all of you | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | my device *is* in a bootable state right now | 01:14 |
| * ShadowJK was browsing internet boutiques for android+qwerty today. htc desire z, and a samsung something. Unfortunately specs dont say if bootloader is locked or not :/ | 01:14 | |
| javispedro | bon voyage MohammadAG . | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG | but it's not open DocScrutinizer | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | tell that aegis | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG | merci javispedro | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly, it's been too much today | 01:14 |
| javispedro | omg omh | 01:15 |
| javispedro | my first OBS build! | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you're free to suggest another funny method to brick that aegis coffin | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | dpkg -r aegis* | 01:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, most are. | 01:15 |
| ShadowJK | :( | 01:15 |
| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: but what exactly aegis prevents you to do? | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, samsung galaxy SII isn't | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25529&postcount=94 | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | read canlog | 01:16 |
| ShadowJK | MohammadAG, is that qwerty | 01:16 |
| MohammadAG | actually, I think all sammy phones are unlocked | 01:16 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, no | 01:16 |
| ShadowJK | disqualified :) | 01:16 |
| MohammadAG | HTC started unlocking their phones | 01:16 |
| nid0 | droid 3's the qwerty im currently liking the most tbh | 01:16 |
| ShadowJK | need hwkeyboard | 01:16 |
| * ShadowJK can't gewt droid 3 | 01:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: ok one last time, I installed a NOKIA(!) bash.deb, and it wasn't startable | 01:16 |
| ShadowJK | droid2 is available though | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Locked bootloader. | 01:17 |
| ShadowJK | bah | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Besides, it's Android. :< | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | Motorola are a no no | 01:17 |
| ShadowJK | So there's like no phones at all anymore | 01:17 |
| nid0 | droid3 is quite probably going to get it's bootloader unlocked | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | Motorolas* | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, that's why I'm getting the N9 | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | nid0: there's many ways to kill the cat | 01:18 |
| MohammadAG | hardware keyboards are probably gone for good | 01:18 |
| ShadowJK | But I can't type stuff on n9 | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | unlocked BL is fine when you want to run an ALL NEW OS | 01:18 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: give it five years and they will make a comeback. | 01:18 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, only when the iPhone 9 has it | 01:18 |
| Trizt | MohammadAG; you getting an n9 too? first n950 and now one more... darn | 01:18 |
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| MohammadAG | Trizt, probably out of my own money | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | nid0: as the old OS may refuse to work when you change just one byte in kernel, a lib, a file in /etc, whatever | 01:19 |
| nid0 | tbh, moto still at least get the keyboard thing | 01:19 |
| nid0 | droid 3's first slider i've ever seen with the right number of keyboard rows | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | nid0: even with an "unlocked" bootloader like the one on N950 | 01:19 |
| nid0 | DocScrutinizer: fact remains though ShadowJK wants an unlocked bootloader, and moto will be unlocking theirs as of the autumn :) | 01:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | fine | 01:21 |
| Trizt | MohammadAG; okey. You got the n950 yet or you have to wait for it? Did myself think of the n9, but at the moment it will be out of my budget | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | then you finally can install another android build than that shipped by moto | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | cyanogen or whatever the name | 01:22 |
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| MohammadAG | I got it in the sense that I was accepted | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | and if that distro works then OK | 01:22 |
| nid0 | well, I think tbh a lot of people crying for unlocked bootloaders want an updated do-anything platform like the hd2 | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | when meegoCE finally works on N950 then I'm happy - unless it also comes with aegis | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | (which will never really fly as Nokia won't sign the community builds of kernel every day) | 01:23 |
| ShadowJK | even if they one day solve the problem of typing on touchscreens, there'll still be the issue of smaller screenspace :/ | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | fact is that for now harmattan is the most locked down maemo ever, no matter how much of the source may be open | 01:24 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: aegis doesn't need nokia, and in fact, it was proposed as the meego security framework | 01:25 |
| javispedro | (I now realize that's what mssf probably means =) ) | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | then Nokia has to roll out a bit in bootprocess that breaks the chain of trust, by verifying signature of a publicly known private-key | 01:26 |
| javispedro | the question still remains open | 01:26 |
| javispedro | what will open mode of aegis prevent. | 01:27 |
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| javispedro | let's say ovimaps depended on aegis being armed and boot process "trusted" -- then it would need nokia's pkey | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 01:28 |
| javispedro | but I can see that aegis would be useful for someone even without that signature. | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | but that's unrelated to meegoCE which by design is "open mode" as there's no trust in a self-signed kernel whatsoever | 01:29 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, publicly known private-key? Surelty each vendor deploying meego would have their own secret public key, isolating themselves from other meegos | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: exactly, and that key is signed with Nokia's masterkey, which has its pubkey in OMAP hw | 01:30 |
| javispedro | why | 01:30 |
| javispedro | I mean, if the vendor does not want to run nokia code like ovimaps, why does it need nokia signature? | 01:30 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, wouldn't other vendors have their own master keys burned into the omaps in their devices | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | if the chain of trust gets corrupted or broken, you can't re-establish it on a higher lever | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: sure | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | if they are OEMs | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: the master key in OMAP is owned by Nokia, on Nokia phones | 01:32 |
| javispedro | yes, I see now that you're thiking meegoCE on N950. | 01:32 |
| javispedro | but even then | 01:33 |
| ShadowJK | MeegoCE is probably not going to depoly aegis? | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | when you use any sw not signed with a chain of trus up to this rootkey in OMAP, the device *is* in open mode | 01:33 |
| javispedro | tbh I do not know exactly what plan they have in mind with regards to mssf in meego. | 01:33 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: aegis is known as mssf there, but still not included in any version that I know of. | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | I deprecate the "open" mode term, actually it's tainted mode | 01:34 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you are completely right in that regard. | 01:34 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: for example, they have already started work on aegis-enabled rpm =) | 01:34 |
| ShadowJK | need to make a few killer apps that absolutely require "open mode" ;-) | 01:35 |
| derEwigeJude | lol wtf | 01:35 |
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| javispedro | btw | 01:38 |
| javispedro | http://conference2010.meego.com/session/mobile-simplified-security-framework-overview | 01:38 |
| javispedro | mandated reading material for all of you ;) | 01:38 |
| nid0 | "to prevent a user from accidentally breaking the device" sounds like they dun goofed on that one | 01:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | outch | 01:39 |
| javispedro | way too lax mask | 01:39 |
| ShadowJK | dosn't say much there? | 01:39 |
| javispedro | there's slides =) | 01:39 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: either way, are you going to ban someone for saying "lol wtf" ? =) | 01:40 |
| ShadowJK | where are slides? | 01:40 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: left pane | 01:40 |
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| javispedro | htough there are more of an overview | 01:40 |
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| javispedro | *they are | 01:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: same IP | 01:41 |
| javispedro | ah well. | 01:41 |
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| ShadowJK | still doesn't answer "how do I get full access to my own phone?" :-) | 01:43 |
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| javispedro | I've been telling one possible answer: build a kernel without Aegis. | 01:46 |
| javispedro | it's just a security module, so you can #ifdef it out (via .config) | 01:46 |
| javispedro | of course, what will userspace do is still unknown to me. | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: or make Nokia deploy a manifest or what they call those aegis rules, that allows all for root | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I admit I don't understand enough to make a clear statement if that's possible at all, though | 01:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as you may have several different apps/processes running, and each of those has its own particular special security needs. So you can't probably allow root to run strace against *all* processes no matter what | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | when there's a process that says "I don't want to get straced or get attached to gdb" then this will always override any general permission for root that Nokia may deploy | 01:52 |
| javispedro | people complain about resistive-ts sensitivity? A cable just slightly moved over the N900 screen and it destroyed my desktop's widget positions. | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | otherwise MSSF/aegis/TC was useless by design | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: jup | 01:53 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you are still thinking all Aegis is for is DRM, and we have not even yet seen one application that actually requires DRM. | 01:53 |
| javispedro | keep the optimism :) | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | donno what peole think. I found N950 c-ts way less "sensitive" than N900 r-ts | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: eh? | 01:54 |
| ShadowJK | I have better accuracy typing on N800 (yes, N800) r-ts /stylus/ vkbd with my thumbs than on my friend's capacitive android :-) | 01:54 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: even if root is allowed to shit crap in the system, aegis keeps its "other" purpose of preventing untrusted apps from making international calls. | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I always stated clearly TC is about keeping total control over the devices you sell | 01:55 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: so, for all I know, this aegis-su or dev mode or some other bullshit could enable a proper, clean root with all capabilities and so. Just that I do not know yet. | 01:55 |
| javispedro | and the silence from Nokia doesn't help. | 01:55 |
| javispedro | maybe it is because we haven't asked THE QUESTION yet. | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | but generally TC is about granting minimum rights and control to $user | 01:57 |
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| nid0 | it's easy to slag off tc/tpm as the evil of the world tbh but there are plenty of valid consumer-benefitting uses of it, the question is just whether aegis is one or not | 01:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the more control you grant, the more probelmatic cases you may have missed | 01:57 |
| javispedro | Aegis was _probably_ designed to be one. | 01:58 |
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| javispedro | wow, the vmware guys have a fine usb sniffer these days. | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | nid0: I am on same page as those security experts quoted on wiki: "you don't need TC for implementing this kind of protecting the user from shit" - the *only* usecase that can only handled by TC is to protect *the device* from *the user* | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | for allother cases there are possix-perms, SElinux, whatnot else | 02:00 |
| nid0 | well, I can name another use-case right now, with sed's - we use them at work now at all our remote storage arrays, and the sole reason is to keep user data safe if drives go walkies from the systems theyre meant to be connected to | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, please rephrase | 02:03 |
| nid0 | sorry - self-encrypting drives - hard drives that encrypt themselves via a hardware tpm, so the drive's data is physically irretrievable in any other system | 02:04 |
| nid0 | software full-disk encryption but via hardware tpm basically, and removes the crippling performance drops software fde has | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's pretty much standard on each and every HDD you buy today | 02:04 |
| nid0 | no, it's not. any drive supports software fde, but pretty much no consumer drives are sed | 02:05 |
| javispedro | seems that you where right DocScrutinizer, pupnik still gets drunk from time to time. | 02:06 |
| javispedro | sad to see. | 02:06 |
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| javispedro | any of you are a #meego chanop btw? | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | how do you tell? | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 02:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, nope. :P | 02:06 |
| Termana | good morning | 02:08 |
| javispedro | morning Termana. | 02:09 |
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| MohammadAG | Termana, time for some Your order has shipped emails | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | incredible, 12 real users on accesslist and the whole #meego chan goes unmoderated | 02:13 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, seems like it's pupnik | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course it's pupnik | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | toldya | 02:16 |
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| Termana | MohammadAG, sounds good to me. The sooner it ships the sooner I can stop using this STUPID android phone! Oh, and work on making my app work :p | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG | whoever picked #meego's ops sure did a great job | 02:23 |
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| javispedro | you all android traitors =) | 02:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: indeed | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | I gather it's been stskeeps | 02:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | right now dawnfoster and qgil have F as well, but I think originally the canel been founded by stskeeps | 02:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: which makes me ponder about the number of active and caring chanops in *this* channel | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems like stskeeps, andre__, dneary, crashanddie, vdvsx are not really active anymore | 02:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | leaves 4. well 3 as X-Fade isn't as frequently active here as he used to be, and jaffa also seems to become a rare see | 02:37 |
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| Termana | They've all gone to #meego | 02:38 |
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| jonwil | so have we found a way to bypass aegis yet? | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | there's open mode, which no one's daring to try | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: nope | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: tell no FUD, tell how to do that! | 02:39 |
| jonwil | I still think finding out what part of the system sets the sysfs aegis security entries might help | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | I'm guessing it's an R&D flag DocScrutinizer | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | didn't frals give you pointers too? | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, plus the remark "will most likely brick *your* devices" | 02:41 |
| Termana | Well, that sounds pleasant | 02:41 |
| MohammadAG | brick is so overused | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | so what? reflash | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? it's just the FIRST time ANYBODY did that | 02:42 |
| mr_jrt | ...night all. | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | no big deal, yeah | 02:42 |
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| Termana | MohammadAG: only soft brick? Are we sure he didnt mean *brick* brick? :p | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | also it's easy to go to next shop and get a swap device when flashing fails, for whatever reasons | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: those loaners weren't sent out to test aegis, after all | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | neither to test flashing, hell it's not even been clear if there's a working image to flash at all | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | luckily I can confirm now the image indeed works | 02:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just it's a *complete* combined-vanilla-combined flash that won't leave any backups to rstore after flashing, AIUI | 02:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and rather than messing with friggin aegis I'd prefer to see Nokia give proper advice how to deal with this nuissance, so devels can concentrate on what they're supposed to do: develop, not debug aegis | 02:49 |
| MohammadAG | Termana, I'm sure | 02:50 |
| MohammadAG | otherwise qgil wouldn't have talked about it | 02:50 |
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| Termana | Here we go again | 02:51 |
| Termana | Shit just got real in #meego | 02:51 |
| MohammadAG | Termana, I GOT DIS | 02:51 |
| MohammadAG | or not | 02:51 |
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| jonwil | so we are giving up on trying to bypass aegis and are going to ask Nokia to provide an answer ASAP? | 02:57 |
| jacekowski | woot? | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: as for now it seems nobody but me ran into this problem, and this won't change until at very least Monday, I'd think it's not really high priority to find out about things that we might get tought "for free" in a few days. Better save our efforts we assign to this topic for the time after we really learned the basics and can poke into the interesting Fringe cases (so I have to pay royalties for "fringe" now?) | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: jacekowski | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: sorry ETAB | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: hi! | 03:03 |
| jacekowski | hi | 03:03 |
| jacekowski | you've got N950 or N9? | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | 950 | 03:03 |
| jacekowski | where from | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeh? | 03:03 |
| jacekowski | bought or from nokia or what | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | Helsinki? Nokia? meego DDP? | 03:04 |
| jacekowski | ddp? | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | developer device program | 03:04 |
| Termana | jacekowski: you cant buy an n950 | 03:04 |
| jacekowski | Termana: you can buy everything | 03:04 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: will you sell N950 for ÂŁ1million | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | lemme put it this way: I *wouldn't* buy it | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: of course... not | 03:05 |
| Termana | jacekowski: see. I told you - you cant buy one | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I could imagine somebody would be willing to kill me to sell the N950 for GBP1mio | 03:06 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: ÂŁ1 billion | 03:06 |
| Termana | jacekowski: if you have that much money to waste, spread some of it our way will ya? :p | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I had to run for my life, and meanwhile I bet my apartment gets robbed | 03:07 |
| jacekowski | Termana: i'm just proving that it's only matter of price | 03:08 |
| jacekowski | any news on N9 release date | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 03:09 |
| jacekowski | does N950 have fmtx? | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: you're waiting for it? | 03:09 |
| Termana | jacekowski: it doesnt count whe *you* cant pay the amount. Therefore *you* still couldnt buy one :p | 03:09 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well, i'm wondering what it has | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yes, has FMTX I heard, alas the antenna is missing | 03:10 |
| jacekowski | who said that? | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | rumour has it | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems like all TX modulo modem is in one chip | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | BT, WLAN, FMTX and FMRX | 03:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | we'd need the datasheet to know any better details for speculations | 03:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: might be a nice topic for you | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: iirc you wrapped your head quite a bit around N900 FMTX | 03:13 |
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| javispedro | which chip# is that one? | 03:17 |
| javispedro | model | 03:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | see wiki | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | wl1273? | 03:19 |
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| javispedro | in which case, | 03:20 |
| javispedro | http://lwn.net/Articles/391209/ | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:N950_Hardware | 03:21 |
| javispedro | comes with embedded codec, uh. | 03:21 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I thought it was wl1271? | 03:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's N900 iirc | 04:04 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, N900 was 1251 | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?temhttp://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12762&contentId=29993&DCMP=wtbu_connectivity&HQS=Other+OT+wilink6plateId=6123&navigationId=12762&contentId=29993&DCMP=wtbu_connectivity&HQS=Other+OT+wilink6 | 04:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so yes, it's probably a 1271 | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | which, for the driver and other specs besides a, doesn't make a diff | 04:09 |
| doc|home | seeing as how the n950's a developers only thing, will there be an n1000 or somesuch? :( | 04:10 |
| doc|home | I want a keyboard damn it :( | 04:10 |
| jonwil | good luck finding a decent handset with a keyboard | 04:10 |
| jonwil | Handset makers seem to be moving away from keyboards :( | 04:10 |
| doc|home | the n900's good enough for me | 04:10 |
| jonwil | which is stupid | 04:10 |
| jonwil | My N900 is perfectly fine | 04:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | At some point the market becomes toxic. | 04:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | The customers decide due to being pushed that mostly silly features are desirable. | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | For example, depth. | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Or lack thereof. | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | hey, the N950 is a pretty good proof that you can build slim devices with kbd as well | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | the only part that really sufers is camery | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | camera | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | How does the hinge feel? | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | hinge? | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 04:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | not as bad as I expected | 04:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | but will definitely break on first accident | 04:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | see my photos on OVI | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | the joints look kinda strange | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | also it's only the small (<40%) center support and a slim lever at one side | 04:22 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, to me it looks better than the N97 | 04:23 |
| MohammadAG | is it plastic? | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | I never scrutinized the N97 | 04:23 |
| javispedro | and when you tell nokia care about the broken hinge, they swap your n950 for a wp7 phone. | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno if it's plastic, I'd think the small lever is alu | 04:24 |
| javispedro | but before that they install aegis on the wp7 device, so that you can continue doing real harmattan work ;) | 04:24 |
| MohammadAG | it was plastic on the N97 :P | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | the center support is plastic | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw see the purple dot on top of my "you nuked it" warning screen photo? Proxy, shining all the time | 04:27 |
| * jonwil wishes he could find something to do for the N900 | 04:33 | |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHA, all the time isn't exactly correct. It pretty much stops shining when you approach it close enough to make it trigger | 04:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: find a way to read out the ADC1..4(..8?) anaolog channels | 04:35 |
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| jonwil | no clue how to do that | 04:35 |
| jonwil | Low level hardware stuff isnt my area :P | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah yes | 04:35 |
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| jonwil | has to be something I can do | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | alsaped | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | find out what the friggin thing is doing | 04:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wonder if sd69 realizes he should be using actual titles for those council posts. . . . | 04:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's even a hack on the config files: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63997 - but it seems nobody really got a *spec* for what's that stuff in there and how *exactly* it works | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: eh? | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/community/council/council_update-july_2011/ | 04:39 |
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| * GeneralAntilles exhales a big meh at that post. | 04:41 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | achipa, woo: http://achipa.blogspot.com/2011/07/qt-components-story-of-ugly-qwidgetling.html | 04:42 |
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| fusi[n900] | grr @ irc.anonops | 04:48 |
| fusi[n900] | ..wrong chan.. | 04:50 |
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| pavin | thinking whether to flash or not my n900? | 10:06 |
| ruskie | why is it broken? | 10:06 |
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| pavin | usb support has an issue | 10:07 |
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| pavin | unable to connect to pc | 10:08 |
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| * RST38h laughs satanically | 10:12 | |
| robbiethe1st | Did you hack Aegis? | 10:12 |
| RST38h | No, I managed to run my stuff on Android. | 10:12 |
| RST38h | Only Gingerbead though, Froyo would require at least as much work. What a mess... | 10:13 |
| robbiethe1st | It's Android. what do you expect? | 10:14 |
| robbiethe1st | Think Windows 95; a new OS with bits hacked on | 10:14 |
| ruskie | wasn't win95 just dos with a shinny tacked on? | 10:18 |
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| robbiethe1st | ruskie: Sort of, yes. | 10:20 |
| robbiethe1st | that was 3.1 you're thinking of | 10:20 |
| robbiethe1st | but dos was still integral to 95 | 10:21 |
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| ColdFyre | hah, so much spam in the nitdroid wiki | 11:01 |
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| BluesLee | what is the easiest way to setup scratchbox on a 64 bit system? | 12:38 |
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| BluesLee | the installer regrets to install as it is "not supported" | 12:38 |
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| PolarFox | 32bit virtual machine? | 12:50 |
| dm8tbr | never tried, but a 32bit chroot might work too? | 12:52 |
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| BluesLee | my aim is to avoid a virtual machine resp. chrooted env | 12:55 |
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| BluesLee | i will go for the latter if there is no native solution | 12:55 |
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| dm8tbr | check the harmattan pages, but I think 64bit is not supported | 13:00 |
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| jacekowski | BluesLee: there is no easy way to do so | 13:02 |
| jacekowski | BluesLee: it took me a while to make it work | 13:02 |
| jacekowski | BluesLee: there is a switch that makes it ignore 32bit | 13:02 |
| jacekowski | 64bit* | 13:02 |
| jacekowski | and you have to disable VDSO | 13:02 |
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| V13 | ehlo... anynone here from nokia? | 13:03 |
| V13 | :) | 13:03 |
| V13 | anyone here that participates in the N950 devkit program ? | 13:04 |
| V13 | anyone here ? | 13:04 |
| * jonwil is here | 13:05 | |
| alterego | Progra | 13:05 |
| V13 | hello :) | 13:05 |
| alterego | Programmatic PDF generation ... Pain in the ass .. | 13:05 |
| V13 | do you participate in the N9 devkit prog ? | 13:05 |
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| jonwil | nope, I do not | 13:05 |
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| alterego | yes, I do | 13:05 |
| V13 | did you order your n950 ? | 13:06 |
| jonwil | Just a happy N900 owner looking for something useful to do :) | 13:06 |
| V13 | alterego: did you order the n950? | 13:06 |
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| V13 | alterego: .. and... in which batch are you in ? | 13:07 |
| alterego | I was in the first batch, I ordered my N950 on Friday as there was an issue with Nokia Developer finding my developer account. | 13:07 |
| V13 | ok... trick question | 13:08 |
| V13 | how many times did you order it until now ? | 13:08 |
| alterego | Quim mentioned there were 10 or so people they couldn't identify on Forum Nokia | 13:08 |
| alterego | I mean, Nokia Developer. | 13:08 |
| alterego | I ordered once, I'm not one of the ones that got multiple emails ;) | 13:08 |
| alterego | I actually didn't get a single email. So ... :) | 13:08 |
| V13 | oh | 13:08 |
| RzR950 | Caco3: congratz you built some deb ! | 13:08 |
| V13 | because somehow, i ordered it twice :) | 13:08 |
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| V13 | and don't know if it is ok | 13:08 |
| BluesLee | jacekowski: disable vdso as a bot parameter? what do you mean with the switch to ignore 32bit? | 13:09 |
| V13 | i got to "a nokia n950 is waiting for you" mails | 13:09 |
| V13 | and have placed two different orders | 13:09 |
| V13 | perhaps I should look at meego forum | 13:09 |
| jonwil | I dont think they will send multiple N950s out | 13:09 |
| V13 | I guess so | 13:09 |
| jacekowski | BluesLee: on maemo wiki there is whole article that describes it | 13:12 |
| jacekowski | BluesLee: read it | 13:12 |
| * jonwil is going to play with the N900 icd2 daemon | 13:12 | |
| jonwil | find out what it does | 13:12 |
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| CaCO3_ | RzR950: huu? none got built. either it sais failed or excluded :( | 13:13 |
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| BluesLee | jacekowski: thanks, you mean http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installation_of_x86-64_Debian_based_distributions | 13:16 |
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| CaCO3_ | RzR950: would be great if you could give me a hint what I am doing wrong :| | 13:24 |
| pavi_n900 | sudo flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> -f -R | 13:24 |
| pavi_n900 | Where is my firmware image for N900 ? | 13:24 |
| ruskie | you download it? | 13:24 |
| ruskie | ~flash | 13:24 |
| infobot | rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 13:25 |
| ruskie | iirc it has all links there | 13:25 |
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| pavi_n900 | ruskie: is there a latest one ? | 13:26 |
| ruskie | yes PR1.3 | 13:26 |
| ruskie | everything is linked to from that page | 13:26 |
| ruskie | it tells you where to download how to access the downloads etc... | 13:26 |
| pavi_n900 | should I give the IMEI number ? | 13:26 |
| psycho_oreos | you'll have to | 13:26 |
| pavi_n900 | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php | 13:26 |
| ruskie | yup | 13:27 |
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| pavi_n900 | that way nokia is tracking all those who updated firmware :D | 13:27 |
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| robbiethe1st | Or just use a fake one | 13:27 |
| robbiethe1st | Or one digit off | 13:27 |
| ruskie | just because you downloaded it doesn't mean you updated it | 13:28 |
| psycho_oreos | or you can use other people's IMEI　if you know how to ask google properly | 13:28 |
| pavi_n900 | lol | 13:29 |
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| psycho_oreos | I'm not joking, I found 2 the other day, one of them was working. The similar technique could be used for obtaining firmwares for other NIT you don't even own | 13:31 |
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| jacekowski | you know that you can get somebody elses imei on tmobile website | 13:32 |
| jacekowski | just type his tmobile phone number and you get imei and phone make and model | 13:33 |
| ruskie | seliously??? | 13:33 |
| psycho_oreos | lol | 13:33 |
| jacekowski | http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/help-and-support/index?page=home&cat=SOFTWAREDOWNLOADS | 13:33 |
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| jacekowski | i typed mine and what i got was | 13:34 |
| jacekowski | Nokia N95 IMEI: 356962017909996 | 13:34 |
| CaCO3_ | when I once needed an IMEI (as I didnt have my N900 yet) I just googled for an N900 image in google :) | 13:34 |
| psycho_oreos | I entered a random one, first time was no go, second time I got imei of some sony w95 or something like that lol | 13:36 |
| ruskie | so that's how those china fakes get valid imeis | 13:36 |
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| psycho_oreos | lol I　got an unused t-mobile number, or at least not registered yet :D | 13:39 |
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| vdv | how can i get rid of U-Boot? apt-get --reinstall install kernel ? | 13:42 |
| jacekowski | vdv: flash it | 13:42 |
| vdv | and maybe then apt-get --reinstall install kernel-flasher | 13:43 |
| vdv | jacekowski, won't it work without flashing? | 13:46 |
| MohammadAG | apt-get --reinstall install kernel kernel-flasher should work | 13:48 |
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| vdv | MohammadAG, should i also deinstall U-Boot explicitly? | 13:54 |
| MohammadAG | no, it lives in the kernel partition | 13:55 |
| vdv | i.e. dpkg or apt-get knows nothing about it? | 13:55 |
| vdv | i mean won't package manager come to unstable state? | 13:56 |
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| MohammadAG | nope | 13:57 |
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| vdv | MohammadAG: ok, thanks | 14:03 |
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| hiemanshu | Morning everyone | 14:35 |
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| RST38h | protesters have been stopped in their tracks after Facebook aided Israel in cracking down on the group of activists from the UK, France, and Belgium who planned their event using the popular social networking site. | 14:39 |
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| robbiethe1st | Facebook = evil | 14:43 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, were we told to keep i2c-tools in -devel? | 15:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I don't recall such advice, but I think it doesn't matter anyway. We should however make sure it's "hidden" (like a lib or sth) | 15:03 |
| jonwil | yeah we should make sure i2c-tools doesn't appear in h-a-m or as an option for "normal people" to install | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's clearly nothing a "user" wants to install, like "mc" or "puzzlemaster" | 15:04 |
| RST38h | "user" does not want "mc", "mc" is too "ugly" for a "user" | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: rationale is: i2ctools isn't more dangerous than messing with sysnodes e.g. for corevoltage directly | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | my yesterday experience shows aegis for example should also get such a big warning on installation, as i2ctools has | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 15:08 |
| ShadowJK | iirc it wont show as it doesn't have a maemo-display-name or whatever | 15:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (were we told) maybe I myself suggested formerly to keep it in devel - I am allowed to change my mind, am I? | 15:10 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, robbiethe1st asked me to promote it | 15:11 |
| MohammadAG | for Backupmenu(??!) | 15:11 |
| ShadowJK | lol what? | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, he has charging in BM | 15:11 |
| MohammadAG | ah | 15:12 |
| ShadowJK | if he adds it as dependency, doesn't it get autopromoted if backupmenu is promoted? | 15:12 |
| jonwil | nope | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | since quite some time, works flawlessly obviously ;-D | 15:12 |
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| jonwil | otherwise things that are not ready for Extras would be promoted | 15:12 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, it should | 15:12 |
| ShadowJK | I thought libraries and such came along by themselves :P | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I2Ctools *is* tested, stable, working, and ready for extras. Though definitely not a user tool | 15:13 |
| MohammadAG | grr | 15:13 |
| MohammadAG | do I need a bugs email/url for such a package? | 15:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | how would a library ever gather the 10 thumbs-up? | 15:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: usb hostmode thread | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | I did same for *# | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | as h-e-n is the "main consumer" of i2ctools, I guess it's fine to point to the tmo thread for reporting bugs | 15:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | of course the pkg maintainer should have subscribed that thread in tmo then ;-) | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: are you going to repackage h-e-n or what? | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd like it when you'd include my improved boost script then | 15:18 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, just i2c-tools | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, k | 15:20 |
| MohammadAG | USB hostmode really needs an update :/ | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | a *major* update | 15:20 |
| MohammadAG | a rewrite | 15:20 |
| MohammadAG | with a QML UI and fancy transitions | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | the gui, well, yes maybe | 15:20 |
| * MohammadAG includes sarcasm quotes | 15:20 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I think the gui could use a semi-automatic mode, that automatically does the (user adjustable) waiting and button clicking, maybe also some syslog/dmesg scanning for trigger keywords | 15:23 |
| MohammadAG | yep, the old code's shitty at best | 15:23 |
| MohammadAG | I'll rewrite the old concept in not so shitty code | 15:23 |
| MohammadAG | we can improve on that | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd happily help to define the structure (way it works) of a rewrite | 15:24 |
| MohammadAG | when I'm done I'll nuke the old git repo | 15:24 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not too happy about those system("command &") lines | 15:24 |
| MohammadAG | there's a good QProcess library for that | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I'm not too worried about *how* the gui calls the backend. I however have a clear notion about what's backend's duty and what's the API | 15:25 |
| MohammadAG | I actually forgot how all this stuff works, brb, gonna look for my adapter | 15:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as this idea is a tiny bit different to how things work now, it'd be nice if you consult me prior to releasing or even putting to much effort into writing the new GUI | 15:27 |
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| RST38h | moo javispedro | 16:14 |
| javispedro | morning | 16:15 |
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| hiemanshu | morning javispedro RST38h | 16:18 |
| gri | who said dhl works on weekends? my package is sleeping at leipzig airport for 33 hours now ... | 16:19 |
| javispedro | dhl works, couriers do not | 16:19 |
| javispedro | my package moved on saturday afternoon | 16:19 |
| hiemanshu | gri: I did, dhl works on weekends, but no deliveries within cities | 16:19 |
| javispedro | from what I gather, you can call them and they will deliver you on a sunday even, for an extra fee. | 16:20 |
| hiemanshu | yup | 16:20 |
| gri | ah ok ... leipzig is still about 600 km from here | 16:20 |
| hiemanshu | gri: there is a good chance it might move tonight | 16:21 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: yours at the local DHL yet? | 16:21 |
| * hiemanshu is still waiting for it to be shipped | 16:21 | |
| javispedro | yes | 16:21 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: nice, so you'll have it tomorrow morning :( | 16:22 |
| javispedro | it's on a warehouse they have near the city airport. | 16:22 |
| hiemanshu | ah | 16:22 |
| javispedro | but I do expect getting it tomorrow morning, I'm pondering how to justify going late to work =) | 16:22 |
| hiemanshu | within city means next day | 16:22 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: diarrhea :P | 16:23 |
| gri | hiemanshu: You can check how long it should take for a package when it's on its way here: http://dct.dhl.com/input.jsp?langId=en | 16:24 |
| javispedro | btw, wouldn't anyone know a nice Qt QIODevice wrapper that allows me to read individual bits? | 16:25 |
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| hiemanshu | gri: it says if it ships tomorrow, it will be here wednesday, as I expected :/ | 16:26 |
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| alterego | javispedro: you can only read a byte at a time, then I'd use a mask or something to get individual bits. | 16:29 |
| alterego | Or a high 0b10000000 bit bask, then shifting to get each bit. | 16:30 |
| javispedro | I know how to do that, but it's pain, it's much natural to write whatever->readBit() and let whatever remember which the last bit was for me | 16:30 |
| javispedro | in fact I have this whatever thing implemented for glib IOChannels, and even Java InputStreams, was thinking maybe I could skip reimplementing for Qt ;) | 16:31 |
| alterego | Well, you can just inherit from QIODevice something like IOBitReader and implement readBit ;) | 16:31 |
| alterego | Ah, right. | 16:31 |
| javispedro | sadly, if I inherit from QIODevice means I cannot use e.g. ZipIODevices | 16:31 |
| javispedro | so it has to be a wrapper. | 16:31 |
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| alterego | Hrm .. | 16:32 |
| alterego | Inherit from ZipIODevice? :) | 16:32 |
| javispedro | and the complication comes if you try to sync readByte() with readBit(), cause it means there could be unaligned readBytes() | 16:32 |
| alterego | Yeah | 16:32 |
| javispedro | ah well, let's write it. | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: moo | 16:43 |
| BluesLee | someone here installed Harmattan Platform SDK (scratchbox)? | 16:43 |
| javispedro | mo. | 16:44 |
| BluesLee | after running the python installer i cant locate the "scratchbox" binary | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: may I invite you to temporarily join h-e-n for N9(50) project, on a consulting-occasionally basis? | 16:44 |
| javispedro | still same channel? =) | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | still same shortcut mhd as well | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | not that there's any particular action like huge discussions right now atm | 16:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's just the location where dm8tbr and me (and MohammadAG ) are about to start tossing around ideas and findings | 16:47 |
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| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: can I pop in too? | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: it's a developer-only no general discussions no support chan, but yes of course, you're welcome to lurk and to contribute when you feel appropriate | 16:51 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: what chan? I can help with the GUI part, and I know a little kernel hacking too | 16:52 |
| MohammadAG | I'm already on the GUI :P | 16:56 |
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| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: you are? well I am sure I can help :P | 16:59 |
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| mzanetti | what is the right way to check for maemo6 in qmake? the examples use "unix:!symbian:!maemo6" but this matches a regular linux desktop too | 17:18 |
| mzanetti | I meant: unix:!symbian:!maemo5 | 17:18 |
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| mzanetti | also, I miss the Q_WS_MAEMO_6 define. I've found somewhere in the net that this has been removed intentionally. But I couldn't find the reason why and what to use instead... | 17:20 |
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| Scifig | mzanetti - I had a similar problem to identify scratchbox in qmake, I used exists() to look for a file that only/also exists in the target environment. In my case I used exists(/usr/bin/hildon-home) to identify scratchbox with FREMANTLE targets | 17:26 |
| Scifig | I didn't know Q_WAS_MAEMO_6 was removed. My code uses still it. Ughh | 17:27 |
| mzanetti | Scifig: ok... that should work, thanks. Still this feels like a workaround and it would be interesting to know why the MAEMO_6 defines are removed. | 17:27 |
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| Scifig | mzanetti - I agree, this is just a workaround. Hopefully they are replacing Q_WS_MAEMO_6 with some MEEGO entry or something | 17:32 |
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| Scifig | mzanetti - On the MeeGo mailing list, it is recommended to use Qt Mobility API (QSystemInfo). More lines of code but i think it works. | 17:43 |
| Scifig | instead of Q_WS_MAEMO_6 i mean. | 17:44 |
| mzanetti | Scifig: I've seen this. But it doesn't do the job: | 17:45 |
| mzanetti | a) it doesn't work for meego specific includes | 17:45 |
| mzanetti | b) it gives only the hardware platform (e.g. N9 or N950) but not the software platform | 17:46 |
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| mzanetti | cancel b)... It does provide the operating system informations... still, the include problem persists | 17:48 |
| Scifig | What include problem? | 17:49 |
| mzanetti | if I want to include a header thats only available on meego | 17:50 |
| Scifig | Yes, i got it | 17:50 |
| mzanetti | sure... I could check that in the pro using exists()... But we're at the workaround again then... | 17:50 |
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| Scifig | This seems like a good topic for Meego mailing list discussion. It would also help other devs. Can you post ur question there? | 17:53 |
| mzanetti | yes | 17:55 |
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| alterego | I don't think that's a work around, it's perfectly reasonable to test your dependencies properly pre build .. | 17:56 |
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| Scifig | Ironically, Q_WS_MAEMO_6 is used in the example given for QSystemInfo --> http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1.0-beta/sysinfo-dialog-cpp.html | 17:57 |
| RST38h | ok, typing seems to work, just barely | 17:58 |
| mzanetti | alterego: I'm talking for example about about qmkeys.h. This is part of the official Qt release for Harmattan and Meego. | 17:59 |
| mzanetti | while I agree that it makes sense to check for third party includes I don't think it is reasonable for platform internal stuff | 17:59 |
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| mzanetti | Scifig: also all the harmattan example projects use it. But since it has been removed they define it themselves in the .pro using "unix:!symbian:!maemo5" | 18:02 |
| mzanetti | which, as I said, interferes with basically all other linux systems | 18:02 |
| MohammadAG | I use Q_WS_MAEMO_6 | 18:03 |
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| MohammadAG | then when they roll the new define I could just check for that and add Q_WS_MAEMO_6 | 18:03 |
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| pavin900 | My new N900 seems to have another fault :( | 18:04 |
| MohammadAG | contains (MEEGO_FLAVOR, "harmattan) DEFINES += Q_WS_MAEMO_6 | 18:04 |
| pavin900 | two glowing lights on the middle of the screen during a white screen | 18:04 |
| * pavin900 loves maemo . debian and even the n900 phone but has to return it !! | 18:05 | |
| Scifig | MohammadAG - Q_WS_MAEMO_6 is not going to supported sooner or later. It is being removed from Qt documentation. | 18:06 |
| MohammadAG | Scifig, so add it yourself | 18:07 |
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| mzanetti | MohammadAG: what is MEEGO_FLAVOUR? | 18:09 |
| mzanetti | its empty here | 18:09 |
| MohammadAG | mzanetti, it'll be added soon | 18:10 |
| mzanetti | ah ok. Great. | 18:10 |
| MohammadAG | FLAVOR btw, no U | 18:10 |
| MohammadAG | afaik this was discussed on #meego | 18:10 |
| Scifig | Interesting idea. Guess this MEEGO_FLAVOR also works for WeTab etc then? | 18:13 |
| MohammadAG | not sure, ask there | 18:15 |
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| mzanetti | Scifig: pretty sure it will. this is also be a good explaination why the MAEMO_6 specific stuff as this is way more flexible | 18:15 |
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| mzanetti | ... why the MAEMO_6 specific stuff has been removed ... | 18:15 |
| hiemanshu | mzanetti: just define it yourself? | 18:16 |
| mzanetti | hiemanshu: no, the MEEGO_FLAVOR thing | 18:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: make the new h-e-n GUI in a way it will work for fremantle and harmattan likewise | 18:37 |
| BluesLee | hi, is it possile to run a 2nd instance of maemo from sd? | 18:37 |
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| BluesLee | DocScrutinizer: will h-e-n work on n9? | 18:39 |
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| pavin900 | I am downloading RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.004_PR_COMBINED_004_ARM.bin | 18:44 |
| pavin900 | is it the new one ? | 18:44 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | BluesLee: we're working on it | 18:45 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, won't work, conceptually | 18:45 |
| MohammadAG | the concept of h-e-n on Harmattan should be in the status menu | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: won't work? too bad - why? | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | can't we do the same for N900 fremantle? | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG | way too hard to do with C/Gtk for Fremantle | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG | at least for me | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG | so unless javispedro wants to step up :p | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah, maybe hiemanshu can help? | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG | he's a Qt guy, like me | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | I see | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart gtk | 18:46 |
| * infobot duct-tapes gtk to the floor and drools on him | 18:46 | |
| * javispedro sighs | 18:47 | |
| MohammadAG | ^ Gtk fan | 18:47 |
| javispedro | ... doing Qt work. | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: how about tha generic status applet executable? | 18:49 |
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| javispedro | you can probably load Qt applets in Harmattan, but I wouldn't do it | 18:50 |
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| javispedro | *Fremantle | 18:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | iirc I once suggested a cmdline binary to show an arbitrary png in status systray, and also to add a button to the status menu, and to call a callback function whenever that button gets hit. Did that idea went anywhere? | 18:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway the real h-e-n GUI will be a fullscreen window on both fremantle and harmattan, I guess it should be portable | 18:55 |
| frals | adding somthing in statusmenu on fremantle is pretty trivial | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | and we should change the UI paradigm to a policy not to stop hostmode on closing the main window | 18:56 |
| frals | http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras_free_source/statusmenu-fmms/1.1/ | 18:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (not stop hostmode on close of GUI) that's a rationale - one of them - why booston should stay a autonomous process that can live on without the invoking GUI | 18:57 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: using a .pid file, running it in background, and making the UI aware of the .pid file makes sense :) | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, yet undecided about the pid file, given the fact the process has a unique name | 18:59 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: you can have the GUI handle the creation of a .pid file, so only when its started via GUI a .pid file is created | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | my original design planned for a named pipe so a UI frontend instance can talk to the daemonized instance | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: fair enough | 19:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so GUI wouldn't tear down a booston process that's not been started by the GUI - sounds good | 19:01 |
| hiemanshu | yup | 19:01 |
| hiemanshu | and QProcess can handle this easily | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | your domain of expertise - I'll keep my sticky fingers out of h-e-n GUI details mostly ;-) | 19:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm the dude for the dirty lowlevel stuff and general system architecture | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | just sugesting we should try to keep h-e-n GUI in sync for fremantle and harmattan | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | for me this means I need to specify platform agnostic APIs for the low level stuff | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | for you it means you need to think about nuisances like gtk-status-applets vs qt | 19:05 |
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| MohammadAG | frals, adding it isn't the hardest part | 19:07 |
| MohammadAG | making it work is :P | 19:07 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, technically, I could allow what I did for sociality | 19:08 |
| MohammadAG | X button hides the window from the user, clicking the icon makes it show again | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fair enough, but will it work for harm "close all" on taskswitcher? | 19:09 |
| MohammadAG | technically, sociality is still running, but not to the average user | 19:09 |
| pavin900 | DocScrutinizer: /me is getting ready to flash the N900 ! | 19:09 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, the close button simply sends the window manager's close signal | 19:09 |
| MohammadAG | example, in fremantle it sends close to all stacked windows + the main window | 19:09 |
| MohammadAG | so just reimplementing closeEvent() and making it ignore the event would not close the app | 19:10 |
| MohammadAG | see https://gitorious.org/qtbook/qtbook/blobs/master/mainwindow.cpp#line614 | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | just make sure it won't interfere with harmattan's weird way to close apps | 19:10 |
| MohammadAG | it's the standard way all window managers' X button works :) | 19:11 |
| MohammadAG | close all is probably just a foreach(app, applist) close | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | harmattan has no classic window manager X-buttons | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, probably | 19:11 |
| MohammadAG | it does, they're just hidden by default | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | tap n hold and they're there | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | we easily can test that by getting an app into an unresponsive state, then clicking "close all" | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | now what would be interesting is if it detects that an app crashed | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | that can be easily done | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | QMainWindow::closeEvent(QCloseEvent *e) | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | { e->ignore(); } | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | it won't respond to the window manager's X button press | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I thought more along the lines of killall -sigstop calendar - then click closeall | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | see what happens to calendar app | 19:13 |
| MohammadAG | wouldn't it simply close? | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | see if window manager complains | 19:14 |
| MohammadAG | Harmattan does complain if an app stalls | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | does it? | 19:14 |
| MohammadAG | noticed that in the SDK | 19:14 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 19:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok | 19:14 |
| MohammadAG | MeeGo's way is way better though | 19:14 |
| MohammadAG | App sucks, do you want to close it? | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | and what does harm? | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | Harmattan does it in a boring "App is not responding" | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, sounds similar | 19:15 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, http://i52.tinypic.com/1t62iv.jpg | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | dman, my clock shows 18:18 but iut seems to get dark outside. Did the relocate my building? | 19:18 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: LOL | 19:18 |
| javispedro | score one extra point for MeegoCE ;) | 19:18 |
| javispedro | this reminds me that I used to work on a project where the internal error page had a textbox with the label: "Please fill the following textbox with any kind words you might want to send to developer". | 19:19 |
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| dm8tbr | that's btw the 'engineering english' locale | 19:23 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: using a .pid file would make sense to conserve resources, and stopping someone from killing it from the command line | 19:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I think the GUI will also implement the status applet, so it might want to stay alive, main window hidden. Nevertheless it must recover if somebody or sth decides to kill it, and user restarts it from applauncher. With pid file it can pick up on prev state about hostmode&booston established, rather than trying to set up things new and thus messing everything up | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | the only thing you'd lose when killing the hidden h-e-n GwindowUI implementing this sheme, would be the status bar applet and status menu button to re-open the main GUI window | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/Gwindow/G/ | 19:35 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: the only thing you'd lose when killing the hidden h-e-n GUI implementing this sheme, would be the status bar applet and status menu button to re-open the main GUI window | 19:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also would implicitly immunize the app against multiple invocations | 19:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure we probably don't need that as I guess it's an immanent feature of appstarter anyway | 19:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | OTOH maybe the main GUI wants to spawn a separate lightweight process for the applet, so resource footprint stays low | 19:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | doesn't make much sense to keep the whole GUI data structures and program text in RAM, while actually only the applet is needed (if at all) | 19:41 |
| MohammadAG | <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: using a .pid file would make sense to conserve resources, and stopping someone from killing it from the command line | 19:42 |
| MohammadAG | someone who kills it from the command line can rm the pid file | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | (could be a user config option "show statusbar applet when hostmode active") | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: OOM manager could kill it | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: it could segfault | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | whatnot else | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | OOM? | 19:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: also see my rationale about resource footprint some few lines up | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | Out Of Memeory | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | well yeah, agreed about that | 19:43 |
| ieatlint | yay, my n950 cleared customs | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | 1GB + OOM?" | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | ieatlint, FU!!! | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | on that thought | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | is there a way to dump an app into a file and reload it later? | 19:44 |
| ieatlint | the short answer is no | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: that's called swap ;-) | 19:45 |
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| ieatlint | but a very long answer with some hypotheticals can say yes | 19:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and generally you don't want to do that | 19:46 |
| ieatlint | MohammadAG: so to get an n950, just go to a meego meetup | 19:47 |
| hiemanshu | ieatlint: FU FU FU! | 19:47 |
| hiemanshu | ieatlint: we are waiting for ours to get shipped :P | 19:47 |
| ieatlint | look for the scrawniest guy with one (but not me), and grab and run | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | NB aiui program text never gets swapped out as you can reload it from the original binary executable file any time | 19:47 |
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| hiemanshu | ieatlint: I am gonna grab yours and run | 19:47 |
| ieatlint | i will hunt you down and ask politely that you return it | 19:48 |
| hiemanshu | and I'll shoot you with my shotgun, I hate polite people | 19:49 |
| ieatlint | bah, i'm an american.. just imagine how many guns i own | 19:50 |
| hiemanshu | none? | 19:50 |
| ieatlint | it'd be better for me if you applied some sort of stereotype than if i answered that question | 19:51 |
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| hiemanshu | you are a geek, you have computers, not guns? :P | 19:52 |
| ieatlint | phones too, apparently | 19:52 |
| javispedro | phones have guns? | 19:53 |
| javispedro | what a wacky world. | 19:53 |
| Ken-Young | Device convergence. | 19:54 |
| ieatlint | my phone-gun is awesome | 19:54 |
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| hiemanshu | yeah, phone has gun, fake ones | 19:55 |
| Ken-Young | The lack of a competitive phone-gun is what has killed Nokia in the US. | 19:55 |
| ieatlint | ican shoot someone while videoing it for youtube, and then tweet about it | 19:55 |
| javispedro | friggin asian HTC guns. | 19:55 |
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| * javispedro suggest you to parse the previous sentence in the most P.C. way possible. | 19:56 | |
| ieatlint | ok, i clearly need to file a patent for a gun/phone combo | 19:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Ken-Young: :-D | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | errrr | 19:59 |
| * DocScrutinizer goes editing the http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia#Completed page | 20:00 | |
| ieatlint | i also need to buy a nokla phone sometime | 20:00 |
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| GAN900 | Limb Saver needs to make an attatchment that puts a phone at the cheek weld. | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | ...no, not a gun app for N950, but close to it ;-D | 20:01 |
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| ieatlint | find an assasin app? | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | boring flashlight app | 20:02 |
| ieatlint | ooh, yeah, definitely need that | 20:02 |
| ieatlint | i bet it's easy.. probably just modify a value in proc | 20:03 |
| ieatlint | or sys | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | v4l2 ioctl | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | let's see if we can pimp it... light machine morse | 20:04 |
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| ieatlint | haha, the app that reads it via the camera would be interesting | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | sync all phones in a football or baseball stadium to either build a nice mega-knightrider effect, or all flash same moment and incinerate the referee ;-P | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: sounds easy | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui we get at very least 30fps | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | detecting the blinking bright spot should be easy, even for such a wimpy CPU as OMAP3630 | 20:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, lemme add this | 20:08 |
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| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: I wanna write a gun app, when you click on it makes sounds like a gun with different guns available :D | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | though the idea to sync some 1000s of phones' flashes is way more intriguing | 20:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ooh, the militaria fart app - great | 20:11 |
| ieatlint | yeah, should've submitted that app to quim | 20:12 |
| ieatlint | "give me an n950 so i can make a fart app" | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe build the virtual watchdog, that scans your flat's door with mic and cam, and starts barking as son as sth is going on? | 20:13 |
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| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: that should be easy using opencv | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | the proper barking is the dificult part in that ;-P | 20:13 |
| hiemanshu | yeah | 20:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | "bug" - turns your phone into a voice/optically activated recording&livestreaming surveillance device | 20:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also can send warning sms, also on movement (e.g leave in your car, it will notice you by sms when car gets moved) | 20:16 |
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| ieatlint | stalker apps are awesome | 20:17 |
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| hiemanshu | well I got opencv to compile in sbox, but I need a real device to test anything, RDA doesn't cut it | 20:18 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: any idea? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74794 | 20:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's a gconf key storing the call timer values | 20:21 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: guess you are busy playing with N950 :p | 20:21 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: ah, now you are talking. how do i query that? | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm busy with doing something unrelated to any technical things, once a week at least | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | mompls, maybe I find I link in my wealth of bookmarks | 20:23 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: btw does N950 has sip support? | 20:23 |
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| ieatlint | trumee: yes | 20:23 |
| ieatlint | it's built in | 20:23 |
| trumee | ieatlint: nice, does it support sip video calls too? | 20:24 |
| * trumee i suppose sip MWI isnt present. | 20:24 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | mwi obviously not present, I guess video is | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | my short test with "echo" showed inbound audio was extremely choppy | 20:27 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: perhaps this is your bookmark http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42624 | 20:28 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: choppy sip :(((((((((((( | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: this was a first cursory test with lazily set up SIP config, done on a betatest OS&device | 20:29 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: hope the final firmware is better. But i am not holding my breath on this | 20:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | trumee: yes, this is not exactly what I thought it was, but that's actually the right way to find out about total of call minutes for inbound, outbound, per-carrier and whatnot | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks for pointing me at it again | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | I still think there should also be a gconf plain value, but maybe I'm messing this up with datacounters | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | you easily can check by dumping whole gconf to a file, do a call, dump again to a 2nd file, and diff | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | you also could run settings->pone->minutescounter under strace and see what it does | 20:33 |
| pavin900 | DocScrutinizer: same issue as yesterday unable to get n900 to recognise usb | 20:34 |
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| fusi[n900] | wish i could be bothered to figure out how to get beeps to go thru screen/ssh so nick highlights make my n900 vibe or smt :( | 20:35 |
| fusi[n900] | im soooo damn lazy | 20:35 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: cheers, that triggers thing is nice, also that readymade shell script will do my job :) | 20:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pavin900: I don't know what that means | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | how can N900 not recognize USB? does it not charge or what? | 20:37 |
| pavin900 | [10732.388020] usb 1-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 93[10735.195559] usb 1-2: unable to read config index 0 descriptor/all [10735.195566] usb 1-2: can't read configurations, error -71 [10735.308026] hub 1-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 2 | 20:37 |
| pavin900 | it charges but that was above message from dmesg | 20:37 |
| pavin900 | I am holding the u button it goes to that orange light loop | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, sorry, I'm completely lost on your context | 20:38 |
| pavin900 | i charged it till it became green | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that's dmesg from your linux PC? | 20:39 |
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| pavin900 | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=pavi_ | 20:39 |
| pavin900 | DocScrutinizer: yeah linux mint debian edition aka testing | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | pavin900: N900 *can not* go into bootloop with blonking yellow LED when you hold 'U' while plugging in a *powered down* device to a USB host PC | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless your battery is weak, or your U button broken | 20:41 |
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| pavin900 | ohh battery says full and u button works | 20:42 |
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| pavin900 | i removed the outer casing made sure i removed and re inserted battery | 20:44 |
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| pavin900 | you think there is nothing wrong in my USB cable | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | there may be sth wrnk with your USB cable, but that doesn't open a path to a bootloop | 20:49 |
| NIN101 | wtf. My lock code consists of 10 digits. If I only enter 8 correct, I can unlock the device. If the 9th digit is wrong, it still gets unlocked. Is this a known issue? | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | normal | 20:49 |
| NIN101 | ok, thx | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | man crypt | 20:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | same with all passwords on linux, usually | 20:50 |
| Sicelo | 0_0 /me thought it was just N900 | 20:51 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: that is news to me | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | man 3 crypt >>By taking the lowest 7 bits of each of the first eight characters of the key, a 56-bit key is obtained.<< | 20:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you can usually change your system settings so programs like passwd use an alternative methos, according to >> The characters in "salt" and "encrypted" are drawn from the set [a-zA-Z0-9./]. In the SHA implementation the entire key is significant (instead of only the first 8 bytes in MD5).<< | 20:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | >> The password field must be filled. The encryped password consists of 13 to 24 characters from the 64 characters alphabet a thru z, A thru Z, 0 thru 9, . and /. Optionally it can start with a "$" character. This means the encrypted password was generated using another (not DES) algorithm. For example if it starts with "$1$" it means the MD5-based algorithm was used.<< | 20:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I.E. password hashes in your passwd/shadow file that start with $!$ indicate that only the first 8 char of the password are significant | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | $1$ even | 21:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for hashes not having $1$ at header, it seems MD5 is used as well, though the above quote of man 5 shadow suggests differently | 21:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | on my desktop system the hashes are tagged $2a$ | 21:05 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: $6$ here | 21:06 |
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| Venemo | good morning everyone | 21:29 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: how's your N950? | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | idle | 21:39 |
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| Venemo | http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10170?sort=0 ->OMG | 21:40 |
| Venemo | what did you do? | 21:40 |
| ruskie | Venemo, he tried running bash as root apparently | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25529&postcount=94 | 21:41 |
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| Venemo | lol | 21:42 |
| Venemo | achipa, I've read your blog post about QML GUIs. thank you very much, I've finally understood it :) | 21:43 |
| achipa | Venemo: yw :) somebody had to say it | 21:47 |
| Venemo | achipa :) | 21:47 |
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| Scifig | What is the proper way to close an app in harmattan? Other than from open apps screen? | 21:52 |
| Venemo | achipa, are there any established design patterns, such as MVC or MVVM that is easily implementable with QML? | 21:52 |
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| lcuk | MVC? MVVM? | 21:53 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_View_ViewModel | 21:54 |
| achipa | Venemo: of course, take a look at the View elements - the models and delegates are just that | 21:54 |
| achipa | but of course free to make your own c++ models, controllers, etc | 21:55 |
| Venemo | achipa, can you gimme a link to a good example that demonstrates this? | 21:55 |
| Venemo | achipa, the thing what I was missing most from QWidgets was a nice design pattern to work with | 21:55 |
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| achipa | QWidgets also have it, but as they were born before MVC became hip, most of the non-database stuff foregoes it by default | 21:56 |
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| Venemo | achipa, yeah, some of them also have a similar design, but a lot more complicated than what I wanted. | 21:57 |
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| achipa | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qdeclarativemodels.html & http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qml-views.html | 21:57 |
| Venemo | achipa, that being said, could you please point me to an article that tells me how to use it with MVC? | 21:57 |
| Venemo | achipa, so for example, let's say I have a View (a QML file) and I want to put a Controller behind it that I write in C++. how can I do that? how can I bind stuff from the C++ class into QML? | 21:58 |
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| achipa | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qml-extending.html ? | 21:59 |
| Venemo | extending? | 21:59 |
| Venemo | I don't wanna extend it | 21:59 |
| achipa | yes, you extend the view | 21:59 |
| achipa | don't get bogged down by nomenclature | 21:59 |
| Venemo | in WPF, this is done with: <TextBox Text="{Binding MyText}"/> | 22:00 |
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| Venemo | and it works two-way | 22:00 |
| Venemo | so what I enter into the text box appears as the value of the property in my class | 22:01 |
| Venemo | can QML do that? | 22:01 |
| achipa | that's a bit different, being MVVM | 22:01 |
| achipa | but yes, you can of course do that | 22:01 |
| Venemo | okay, but how? | 22:01 |
| Sicelo | when connected to N900 via vnc, and the screen dims, how do i 'wake' it up? So far I'm using F7/8 (which does volume up/down) | 22:02 |
| achipa | same page: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qml-extending.html#property-binding | 22:02 |
| Venemo | achipa, aaah, thanks | 22:02 |
| frals | Q_PROPERTY <3 | 22:02 |
| Venemo | achipa, does this binding work two-way? | 22:03 |
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| frals | if only qtcreator would generate crap like that automatically it would be even better! | 22:03 |
| frals | if you implement the WRITE and specify it | 22:03 |
| achipa | Venemo: yes, works both ways | 22:04 |
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| Venemo | does this binding also work for UI elements? the example shows it with various objects, but not UI elements | 22:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | achipa: what's your take on http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10171 +next 3 and http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25529&postcount=94 | 22:05 |
| achipa | Venemo: yes (but you have to inherit from the right things, of course) | 22:07 |
| Venemo | achipa, I think it will be clearer to me when I actually start coding it :) | 22:07 |
| Venemo | achipa, thank you so much :) | 22:07 |
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| Venemo | achipa, I still have some other work to do, but would you mind if I asked you questions about this stuff once I begin with it? | 22:08 |
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| achipa | Venemo: sure, no worries, if I'm around, glad to help | 22:09 |
| Venemo | achipa, thanks :) | 22:09 |
| Venemo | achipa, QML seems to be a worthy opponent of XAML, once one gets used to {} instead of <> | 22:09 |
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| achipa | DocScrutinizer: ? not sure I follow what's going on... | 22:10 |
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| Venemo | achipa, he tried to install bash on N950 and aegis bricked his device | 22:11 |
| frals | achipa: aegis is going on there (not sure about the 3rd pic which is of the hw hinge?) ;) | 22:11 |
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| frals | he tried to run the installed bash and aegis protected him ;D | 22:11 |
| achipa | care to elaborate on the methodology of "tried to install" ? | 22:11 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, btw, is there something wrong with your hinge or you just like it this much? you appear to have a bunch of pictures of it. | 22:11 |
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| achipa | also the date of birth... :) | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooops sorry | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | scratch that | 22:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | achipa: what's your take on http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10171 +next 3 and http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=219 | 22:13 |
| povbot | Bug 219: submenus do not open, timing issue | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah povbot, good bot | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: the hinge is considered the reason why N950 didn't make it to market | 22:14 |
| frals | fucking annoying that bugzilla requires a username | 22:14 |
| frals | cant even see the fucking bugreport | 22:14 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, what's wrong with it? | 22:14 |
| frals | wonder who came up with that bright idea | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: possibly not really sturdy | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: the aegis desaster is a completely unrelated story | 22:16 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, is it crap? | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | what? the hinge? | 22:16 |
| achipa | as for UI usability... that's something really really really really hard to affect | 22:17 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, yep, I'm still talking about the hinge | 22:17 |
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| GAN900 | achipa, indeed, nice post. | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I think for me it's as fine as N900 USB | 22:17 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, that's good to hear (N900 USB has been working fine for me) | 22:18 |
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| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: so you needed a reflash after that aegis screen? | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 22:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | achipa: on the aegis topic: how's the supposed way to install *anything* on N950? I downloaded and installed (via dpkg -i) the bash.deb as linked to in that FMC post I accidentally posted the URL above. It installed but wasn't startable | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro analyzed it down to bash trying to do a setgid() which makes aegis reject the execution | 22:28 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: I'm no aegis expert, but it should work if the manifest is valid | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | would the manifest be included in that .deb? | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | would I have to create it by myself? | 22:29 |
| achipa | setgid almost certainly requires some aegis tokens | 22:29 |
| achipa | manifest should be in deb, yes | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | where can I find a mini-howto about all that? | 22:29 |
| achipa | a default gets created if you don't | 22:29 |
| achipa | it's in the harmattan docs | 22:29 |
| achipa | on developer nokia | 22:29 |
| achipa | not overly detailed, but DOES describe the tokens and manifest creation workflow | 22:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's a PITA to download and install a .deb from Nokia and find it can't run | 22:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | development on a level I planned for seems to be next to impossible with this aegis thing | 22:31 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: http://library.developer.nokia.com/topic/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_6cbe.html | 22:31 |
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| RST38h | ok, is there a way to disable aegis? | 22:31 |
| achipa | sure... though you probably don't want to gives the things that require it running | 22:31 |
| ieatlint | it wouldn't really be a nokia phone if you didn't have permissions issues that make you angry | 22:31 |
| RST38h | achipa: what things? | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | see, I spent a day with installing and recovering from http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb | 22:32 |
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| ieatlint | is there a public copy of the n950 fw for reflashing? | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | if this is what a developer device is supposed to behave like, then I don't see the development taking any pace | 22:33 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: if it's a Nokia signed package and has a faulty manifest, file bug - really | 22:33 |
| achipa | ieatlint: public copy ? | 22:34 |
| dm8tbr | ieatlint: one click flasher on dev.no | 22:34 |
| achipa | ieatlint: what's wrong with the official one ? | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | It's been the very first thing I tried, and I have nfc if it has a bug or I did something wrong | 22:34 |
| ieatlint | nothing, i didn't know if there was an image to reflash the device if things screw up | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: obviously there is or otherwise I'd be busted | 22:35 |
| ieatlint | hah, indeed | 22:36 |
| dm8tbr | achipa: as much as I try to understand aegis and rationalize it's existence, throwing a tantrum and leaving the device in an non-booting state is a _bit_ harsh in my book | 22:36 |
| achipa | yep, it's on developer nokia... | 22:36 |
| achipa | for experienced folks, I'd suggest staqrting the one-click-flasher and just ctrl-c after it extracts the stuff | 22:37 |
| Atarii | is DD overkill if I want to create a easily restorable backup of my N900? Is BackupMenu the recommended method>? | 22:37 |
| achipa | you'll get a classic flasher+bin+emmc and use it just like on maemo | 22:37 |
| achipa | dm8tbr: well it's a bit harsh when you rm -rf / your device as root, but that doesn't mean rm's existance needs rationalizing, right ? | 22:38 |
| ShadowJK | but the question is still, how do you turn off aegis so it stops stopping you from doing stuff :) | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: this link you posted is about creating manifest. Thanks. But first I'd be interested in a word about how you're supposed to *install* something usually on harmattan. Are there any differences in which tools to use etc? | 22:38 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: no, dpkg -i should work just as it did | 22:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok, thanks for that trivial but assuring bit of info | 22:39 |
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| ShadowJK | How do you make programs and scripts created on device work? | 22:40 |
| dm8tbr | achipa: I thought it was supposed to protect the user, not give him the ability to wipe his device in an instant without further warning | 22:40 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: though - you might need to REMOVE it first if there is a source signature check. Hm. yes, this requires a bit of thinking... | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | YAY | 22:41 |
| achipa | dm8tbr: hey, don't make me defend aegis. Or silverlight. Or... you get the idea. | 22:41 |
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| dm8tbr | achipa: I'm just asking you because you are more knowledgeable about this than we are | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: will there be a day eventually some time into the future when I can do >>apt-get install gdb<< ? | 22:42 |
| achipa | that's bad. Given that my aegis-fu is fairly rudimentary, and mostly related to application development, not the bowels of Harmattan... | 22:42 |
| achipa | I would have thought gdb is already there in some dev repo... | 22:43 |
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| achipa | (I'm pretty sure it is, in fact, though I *am* a bit sleep deprived) | 22:44 |
| pavin900 | DocScrutinizer: charged for two hours to check my n900 which is fully charged and plugged to USB with battery reinserted , u key was pressed all the time .. I could see in a very very feeble light from n900 that I was dropped to some shell . Is that any good ? | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed, gdb is. Not bash though | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 22:45 |
| pavin900 | and it again went to boot loop , huh no other choice but to return the device | 22:45 |
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| ShadowJK | was flasher running? | 22:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pavin900: the nolo bootloader shall stop on NOKIA screen with usb logo | 22:46 |
| pavin900 | nopes didnt happen | 22:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | since yesterday I have some 2..4 moments of 60s each day when I honestly consider sending the device back | 22:49 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, please don't. at least not before you make USB hostmode for it :) | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not completely clear why I'm doing all this, going thru aegis hoops and develping hostmode for a device I'm not faintly interested in | 22:50 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, you're doing it for your friends here :) | 22:50 |
| ShadowJK | N950 seems interesting, if one can work around aegis so that you can like, make stuff ;p | 22:50 |
| maybeWTF | for the fame & women | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | and obviously the device and Nokia are not interested in me messing around with this low level stuff either | 22:50 |
| ShadowJK | but N9 is totally uninteresting indeed :P | 22:50 |
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| ShadowJK | pavin900, so your N900 still boots or not? | 22:52 |
| pavin900 | nopes with usb | 22:52 |
| vdv | how can i tell to camera app not to store videos on MicroSD, but on internal memory? | 22:53 |
| * ShadowJK sighs | 22:53 | |
| pavin900 | ShadowJK: I am sick of seeing that orange blinking light and console messages which are so dim that I cant make a or b or c from it | 22:54 |
| ShadowJK | vdv, open camera app, tap on viewfinder to reveal titlebar, open titlebar menu, general settings | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | vdv: click on the storage icon in camera gui | 22:54 |
| * pavin900 will remove USB and see some diagnostic messages hopefully | 22:55 | |
| ShadowJK | pavin900, what question is that in response to? | 22:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pavin900: there ARE NO diagnostic messgaes from NOLO bootloader. This means when you see those, then NOLO failed to enter flashing mode | 22:56 |
| pavin900 | DocScrutinizer: ohh ok ,sorry for bugging you multiple times with this question :( | 22:56 |
| vdv | ShadowJK, DocScrutinizer: thanks :) | 22:57 |
| ShadowJK | I'd still want to know whether your device is bootable or notä | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | you know you entered flashing mode when you see a huge NOKIA with a USB icon | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | everything else means there's sth going wrong | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: bootloops | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui | 22:58 |
| pavin900 | ShadowJK: I removed the USB cable was able to turn on N()0 .. but USB wont be detected in any case . | 22:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | N900 does no "USB detection" | 22:59 |
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| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: I do think this will change. the problem is that we have to deal with the situation that we have at hand. nerd rage is not helping. we need to figure it out and the standard hacker approach fails, that's frustrating. | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | extremely frustrating | 23:00 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: as you know I'm lucky enough that I'm in walking distance to kick some people in person if necessary. Once I know who does what we should be able to solve a few things. | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I started to hate aegis long ago, so I can't tell anything changed since I learned it is as bad as I expected | 23:01 |
| dm8tbr | it's my private version of 'sauna diplomacy' | 23:01 |
| dm8tbr | walk up to people's desks and keep talking to them | 23:01 |
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| pavin900 | DocScrutinizer: you mean it wont act as host mode , which I do know . I mean the phone doesnt detect a USB cable attached to it | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr for president! :-D | 23:01 |
| dm8tbr | thank's but I'm not the calibre of a Kekkonen... | 23:02 |
| ShadowJK | pavin900, what about pc? | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | pavin900: that's obviously nonsense as it wouldn't start up on plugging it in to PC otherwise | 23:02 |
| dm8tbr | pavin900: random thought, did you try with a different BL-5J battery? | 23:03 |
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| pavin900 | ShadowJK: [19506.364024] hub 2-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 2 is the only line I get on my debian pc dmesg | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed, it's highly probable that this is a batery-low issue | 23:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that as well can't be correct as first it has to detect a new device and that even gets logged as well, otherwise it wouldn't start to try and enum it | 23:04 |
| pavin900 | ok charged it fully , maybe that was not sufficient( despite the green) , will try with another battery | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | try another USB cable first | 23:05 |
| ShadowJK | So, even if it enters flashing mode it'll do nothing since it can't communicate over usb at all | 23:05 |
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| ShadowJK | Because even in "charging only" mode it enumerates on host pc | 23:06 |
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| pavin900 | Another dumb question , does android machiens use the same cable ? | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | some of them predate MicroUSB and have MiniUSB instead | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | should be easy to see the difference | 23:07 |
| pavin900 | ok tomorrow some of my colleagues have a cable which works for Wildfire,sony and galaxy // will try with it | 23:08 |
| pavin900 | BTW this cable worked like 2 days back | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | also check if usb port on pc works with anything else.. | 23:09 |
| pavin900 | ShadowJK: that I double checked with many pen drives | 23:10 |
| ShadowJK | ok | 23:10 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: pong (something about rarity) | 23:14 |
| Jaffa | Ev'ning all | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, was about the diminuishing number of active chanops here | 23:14 |
| Jaffa | Ah | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and hi o/ | 23:14 |
| GAN900 | #meego's got a bigger problem with that. | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | a list of 12 chanops but nobody cares when pupnik goes mad | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: you installed any fancy stuff (or *any* stuff for that one) on your 950? | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | I picked the top win, and tried to install bash which turns out to be broken - so I'd need a bit of assurance about usually things *can* work the usual way | 23:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I mean it's quite embarrassing and paralyzing to brick your device and get http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10170?sort=4 when all you wanna do is install (and run) bash | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least you can't say I gave aegis no fair chance to convince me it's no a spawn from hell | 23:22 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: gPodder, Mong, Trap/Shake/Kill'em, Attitude | 23:23 |
| Venemo | but... why isn't there an option in aegis to tell it that this or that stuff should be treated as "trusted" | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | all via apt-get, from standard repo? | 23:23 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: All from debs from browser; but then Attitude upgraded from my home project repo | 23:24 |
| GAN900 | OK, who's going to get Qt FBReader ported by the time I get my device? | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: simply because *you* are not trusted to tell aegis what's trustworthy. It's up to Nokia to decide | 23:24 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, that's weird | 23:24 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: So, was the problem with bash that it replaced /bin/sh? | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: from a aegis PoV there's simply no difference between "you" and any arbitrary rogue malware you accidentally happen to run | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 23:25 |
| Venemo | mhm | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | jaffa, it didn't replace anything | 23:26 |
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| * dm8tbr hopes he gets his device soon so he can start and help bring some light into this mess... | 23:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25529&postcount=94 | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: the manifest Nokia ships with this .deb is obviously defect, so we tried to make bash run nevertheless, which ended in us bricking the device | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | as we had NFC about manifests in .deb - or even how to fix them | 23:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: another interesting bit javispedro found out is that the kernel shipping with 950 has no OTG support at all - so to even start anything meaningful we need a new kernel, and I'm already joyfully awaiting the aegis msgs we'll get after we flashed it | 23:32 |
| Jaffa | :-/ | 23:32 |
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| gri | wohoo, package departed leipzig | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet we'll get *some* sort of system up and running with this custom kernel, but I'm rather sure a lot will blow chunks, e.g. whole telephony stack | 23:34 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: not the one shipping but n950, but the one that is on the harmattan SDK. Hopefully they match ;) | 23:34 |
| javispedro | s/but n950/on n950/ | 23:34 |
| infobot | javispedro meant: DocScrutinizer: not the one shipping on n950, but the one that is on the harmattan SDK. Hopefully they match ;) | 23:34 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, could we just flash a firmware which doesn't have aegis? | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | so me failing on a simple install of an alternative shell not exactly helped to rise my hopes we'll ever get this running | 23:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: telephony stack and whatnot will not work on such a firmware | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | otherwise it should work | 23:36 |
| Venemo | why? | 23:36 |
| javispedro | we do not know. | 23:36 |
| javispedro | as I was saying removingaegis from kernel is one of the first things I'm going to try. | 23:37 |
| javispedro | and see what happens. | 23:37 |
| pavin900 | Bye folks me got a train to catch . I will hopefully be back with some good news . Thanks a lot DocScrutinizer ShadowJK dm8tbr | 23:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | because aiui those binaries have something built in that makes them fail when not on a aegis system | 23:37 |
| Venemo | so | 23:37 |
| Venemo | let's lie to them? | 23:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pavi: yw | 23:37 |
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| dm8tbr | Venemo: the problem is that we don't know enough about this yet. if it would be fully armed we'd be probably screwed, but it seems to be in some limbo state, so we might be able to trick it into submission. | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: when modem does a challenge-response auth to APE with a key only Nokia has access to, we're screwed for that bit at least | 23:38 |
| Venemo | hmm | 23:39 |
| dm8tbr | and yes, if there are trust chains involved that gets awfully hairy | 23:39 |
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| Venemo | well, MeeGo CE runs on the N950... and I do think that it doesn't have aegis | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's true | 23:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | good point, very good point | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 23:40 |
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| vdv | what does "bind" in "/home/opt on /opt type none (bind)" mean? (output of mount) | 23:40 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I'm not sure if one can make a phone call with N950 with MeeGo CE (hasn't asked anyone) | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a bindmount which means the "source" is no physical device | 23:41 |
| vdv | mmcblk0p2 is mounted on /home, that's clear | 23:41 |
| V13 | vdv: most probably mount -t bind | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | vdv: bindmounts a kinda like symlinks | 23:42 |
| vdv | i want to move /usr on MicroSD, is that possible/good idea? | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | they are no classical mounts for hardware | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's not feasible on maemo, see: | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 23:42 |
| infobot | optification is, like, a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3 | 23:42 |
| V13 | nice entry | 23:43 |
| vdv | :) | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | vdv: Nokia failed to clearly sort stuff so /usr has no binaries that are needed in early boot | 23:43 |
| V13 | well... | 23:43 |
| V13 | DocScrutinizer: it's even worse | 23:43 |
| vdv | i.e. /usr stuff is needed on boot? | 23:44 |
| V13 | I bricked my N900 at the first day because I moved /usr/share in eMMC | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | vdv: yes | 23:44 |
| vdv | damn partitioning :) i hate it | 23:44 |
| cehteh | well done :P | 23:44 |
| V13 | I assumed that /usr/share would be safe.... | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | vdv: so instead of moving that stuff to rootfs proper, Nokia decided /usr has to be on rootfs, which clearly conflicts to FHS | 23:45 |
| cehteh | anyways bricking at the first day is certainly more comfortable than bricking at half a year of use with no backup :P | 23:45 |
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| V13 | cehteh: indeed... although I believe that because of that incident I'll live about 2 years less... | 23:46 |
| vdv | i've bricked mine today... | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | vdv: so that's how ~optification was born | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | (first the process, then the factoid of infobot ;-D) | 23:46 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, how's multitasking feel day-to-day? | 23:47 |
| V13 | DocScrutinizer: Well.. optification initially had a different meaning. It only affected installed apps that needed to go in /opt. It was PR1.2 IIRC that changed the meaning to "move anything possible to /opt". | 23:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: which multitasking? | 23:48 |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: Very good. I'm not missing quick close either, and always have Contacts, Clock, Calendar and Mail open | 23:55 |
| * Jaffa beds | 23:55 | |
| DocScrutinizer | burning platform -> aegis coffin | 23:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | night Jaffa | 23:55 |
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