| pavvi-n900 | WTF Nokia To Support The N9 For Years, May Be Bringing It To Even More Countries | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| javispedro | oh, actually they are going to support the n9 for milennia. | 00:01 |
| pavvi-n900 | First what about the present maemo.nokia.com ell the to get the site up :X | 00:01 |
| pavvi-n900 | it forwards to swipe.nokia.com | 00:02 |
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| * pavvi-n900 wonders if anyone will trust nokia after N900/maemo/meego story | 00:02 | |
| pavvi-n900 | if only there was no community behind N900 .. the users would have been crying like the symbian fellows | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | pavvi-n900: http://2600hertz.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/meego-destroy-in-6-steps/ | 00:04 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: that's just a ripoff of certain meegoconf session that was very funny | 00:06 |
| pavvi-n900 | DocScrutinizer: Exactly .. would you believe , /me was the crazy guy who searched all shops to buy N900 after the N9 announcement just because I want maemo , not meego ! | 00:06 |
| holmesII | what's HAL, and what's BME, can anyone tell me some details about those? and is there tutorial about program on HAL & BME? and BTW, what's HILDON | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~hal | 00:07 |
| infobot | rumour has it, hal is (Hardware Abstraction Layer) This is the portion of the operating system that lets programs deal with hardware directly. This allows programs needing more speed from the computer to bypass the standard OS calls to hardware. So instead of calling the Windows' API to draw a dialog box, you would go through the pain of actually drawing it out line by line: much faster, but much harder to write. This is of particular importance when ... | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME | 00:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~hildon | 00:08 |
| infobot | i guess hildon is crappy | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | fair enough | 00:08 |
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| javispedro | infobot: BY MAKING THAT ASSERTION YOU HAVE CHALLENGED THE HONOR OF MY FAMILY. PREPARE TO DIE! | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildon | 00:10 |
| holmesII | all right. thank you guys! I am reading now. well, if I want get the information about the battery, should I know both HAL & BME? | 00:10 |
| Smegman | Bradley Manning: American Hero | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | forget bme | 00:10 |
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| angelox|laptop | Hi all | 00:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: you don't want me to tell infobot: die! | 00:11 |
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| javispedro | /msg infobot die! | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | which actually is a pity, as I loved that factoid | 00:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~+help die | 00:12 |
| infobot | no help on die. Use 'help' without arguments. | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 00:12 |
| javispedro | man die ;) | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | she'll actually die when I do ~die | 00:13 |
| angelox|laptop | ~+help life | 00:13 |
| infobot | no help on life. Use 'help' without arguments. | 00:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so anybody but me can use the factoid cmd of same name | 00:13 |
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| infobot | No Doc, let me live - please! | 00:14 |
| holmesII | any clue about programming with HAL? | 00:14 |
| cehteh | read the libhal doc? | 00:17 |
| * infobot shivers | 00:18 | |
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| cehteh | ~help | 00:19 |
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| cehteh | ~wtf | 00:20 |
| cehteh | wtf infobot | 00:20 |
| * cehteh hates bots | 00:20 | |
| Smegman | hallo cehteh | 00:21 |
| cehteh | mhm? | 00:22 |
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| javispedro | aaaaaaargh | 00:23 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: prepare to puke | 00:23 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: http://linuxfr.org/nodes/86687/comments/1249943 | 00:23 |
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| infobot | may I bring you a bucket, Doc? | 00:23 |
| javispedro | infobot: reserve one for me too. | 00:23 |
| infobot | sure thing javispedro | 00:24 |
| cehteh | javispedro: whats wrong there? i dint want to read it all | 00:25 |
| javispedro | lennart as usual, saying pulseaudio is like the second coming of Jesus, that BSD sucks, that Ubuntu are idiots for mistrusting his newfangled systemd.. | 00:25 |
| cehteh | hehe well pa is his child an he put a lot efforts into it, i may disagree too but well in some cases there in nothing better yet | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | I need a specially locked storage for such links | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | how poettirng | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~poettering | 00:27 |
| infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'' | 00:27 |
| * cehteh just using lennarts libasyncns ... which is well done | 00:27 | |
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| cehteh | well, and i met and talked personally to him at the LAC 2010 .. he is arguable some strange guy, but i seen weirder free software guys | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | but rarely somebody with such a perveiling smell of castor oil | 00:29 |
| javispedro | well, I like the idea of userspace sound server _daemons_, I never used Ubuntu nor BSD... and yet I _fear_ everytime he opens his mouth. | 00:29 |
| cehteh | oh come one .. there is a very long list :) | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | he's generally acting poettering | 00:30 |
| cehteh | schily, the bitkeeper guy, tom lord, miguel icaza .... | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | on last CCC he hijacked the stage when somebody dared to talk about "why we don't need PA" | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Laser dentistry is a revolution. | 00:32 |
| cehteh | lol :) | 00:32 |
| holmesII | this is very helpful http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Using_HAL | 00:32 |
| andre__ | and that CCC video is worth to watch, because that presenter obviously had no clue what he was talking about. | 00:32 |
| cehteh | well i dont touch PA :) | 00:32 |
| holmesII | however, can anyone support me more detailed code for that? see the code in the last of that page | 00:32 |
| cehteh | free software is all about strong opinions and egocentric people | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | andre__: he wasn't exactly brilliant, but he had quite a number of points | 00:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | majorly he had no clue how to deal with a lennart going mad | 00:33 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer, if he had prepared his talk properly that wouldn't have happened. | 00:33 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: when i can choose again over a conversation with schily or lennart i'd choose lennart hands down :) | 00:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, how's your N950, bitch? | 00:34 |
| cehteh | (is this channel logged? .. *wink*) ... | 00:34 |
| andre__ | if you come up with examples from three years ago for your criticism plus state clearly wrong stuff it's normal (and more than right) that you get bashed for it. | 00:34 |
| andre__ | ...and for those that want to make up their own opinion, that CCC video is available e.g. at http://ftp.uni-kl.de/CCC/27C3/mp4-h264-HQ/27c3-4017-en-desktop_on_the_linux.mp4 | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd rather have a 5 weeks conversation with ELIZA rather than sitting silent in a room where lennart walks by | 00:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, you know, it's funny. I read that interview without a lot of prejudices about lennart and his projects. | 00:35 |
| andre__ | GeneralAntilles: I don't have one yet, sorry... but my prototype is fine, as usual :) | 00:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, and he really is CONVINCING. | 00:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | andre__, I thought you had received yours? | 00:35 |
| andre__ | GeneralAntilles, nope, not yet. but I'm travelling anyway so maybe some time next week | 00:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | andre__, might want to update: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia#Completed | 00:36 |
| andre__ | GeneralAntilles, nah... I assume it means "on the way". we'll see. | 00:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: (convincing) that's this dude's problem. He can convince you shit is delicious, and you'll ask him to sell you some more | 00:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, where's the even-tone, fact-filled, convincing rebuttal? | 00:37 |
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| andre__ | I can only say that I always love having some beers with Lennart :) | 00:37 |
| cehteh | hehe | 00:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | from me? (sorry my Emglish starts to fail a t that level) I'm just tired of lennart and his poettering way to change things without even noticing what he destroys | 00:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I'm tired to explain again and again why PA has (almost) no benefit at all but compensates that by introducing quite some bugs | 00:39 |
| cehteh | well there are definately more destructive things .. be happy that PA isnt a mandatory kernel component :P | 00:39 |
| andre__ | get a distro that does not use it, done? | 00:39 |
| javispedro | I do think he tries to push his stuff too hard for no reason, and way too early. | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: you make me gasp | 00:40 |
| javispedro | for ex. he talks much about zero-copy and its benefits and yet not webos, and not maemo use it. | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | andre__: thanks mr poettering this is virtually impossible nowadays | 00:40 |
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| cehteh | i dont like it either .. but except raw alsa programming there seems no better alternative for the *consumer* device side .. jackd isnt suitable for this stuff | 00:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, and I don't say that in the Stskeepsian (sorry!) fashion. I mean, I'd be interested to collected the facts in the case and to see where the other side has put their own story. | 00:41 |
| cehteh | but i have also to admit that i am not big into this consumer crap | 00:41 |
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| javispedro | and he complains loudly about audio card drivers sucking badly when it comes to timing, but that's only the tip of the iceberg | 00:41 |
| cehteh | yes | 00:41 |
| javispedro | he has complained even about the dB labeling in volume controls | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: the chanlogs hold evenings full of PA bashing, just search them | 00:41 |
| javispedro | _no_ driver is implemented according to his specifications. | 00:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, I also suspect you'd be qualified to elaborate here. ;) If you want a copy-editor and native speaker I can oblige. | 00:42 |
| cehteh | this is the 'safe every penny, someone will fix it in software' land | 00:42 |
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| merlin1991 | hehe this chanlog has no only evenings full of pa bashing, but weeks full of pa bashing :D | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: It's stale, done that enough in my life | 00:42 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer, start your own distro if you're unhappy with all of them? :) | 00:42 |
| cehteh | nixos :P | 00:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, fair enough. :) | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | andre__: I'm not building my own car because VW decided they don't sell midnight blue any more | 00:43 |
| javispedro | and he does not seem to realize that a list of "features systemd has that sysvinit or upstartd don't" does not matter much to me.... cause I fail to see why aggregating all of the features into a single giant binary is beneficial. | 00:43 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer, you could buy a different brand then... | 00:44 |
| javispedro | specially if they were previously done by customizable shell scripts. | 00:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | andre__: I have no problem with PA, I know how to kill it, it's just an annoyance. I have a problem with Mr Poettering forcing his awesome acme crap into virtually everything | 00:45 |
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| cehteh | hehe | 00:45 |
| andre__ | hehe | 00:45 |
| cehteh | markeing rules te world | 00:45 |
| javispedro | actually killing PA is a harder problem every day | 00:45 |
| cehteh | +t | 00:45 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer, he's too convincing you mean? :) | 00:45 |
| javispedro | I have to maintain a patch to gnome-settings-daemon by myself because otherwise it triesto use PA as mixer backend | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | andre__: I have no problem with PA, I know how to[2011-07-07 23:37:00] <DocScrutinizer> GeneralAntilles: (convincing) that's this dude's problem. He can convince you shit is delicious, and you'll ask him to sell you some more kill it, it's just an annoyance. I have a problem with Mr Poettering forcing his awesome acme crap into virtually everything | 00:46 |
| javispedro | which of course fails badly because "my card does not have the proper dB scale" or something like that. | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | grr | 00:46 |
| javispedro | resulting in the initial three volume steps in PA's mixer being = mute | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-07-07 23:37:00] <DocScrutinizer> GeneralAntilles: (convincing) that's this dude's problem. He can convince you shit is delicious, and you'll ask him to sell you some more | 00:46 |
| javispedro | a problem I've seen on virtually every computer in the campus... | 00:46 |
| andre__ | I see... | 00:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's just no sense in forcing a system for remote sound into 500mio desktop PC when you need it on 300 | 00:47 |
| javispedro | either way it doesn't matter | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's definitely 1mio of the 500mio that has *problems* with PA, but definitely NO benefit at all | 00:48 |
| javispedro | someone will eventually move this stuff back to the kernel, wayland style. | 00:48 |
| vdv | if i have installed sshd on my n900, how can i now start it? there's no rc.sshd script in /etc/rc.d/ | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | and btw I recently learned ALSA can do audio streaming via UDP as well | 00:49 |
| cehteh | vdv: should be running | 00:49 |
| cehteh | using upstart | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | one more point where PA doesn't look like the winner | 00:49 |
| merlin1991 | vdv: n900 is upstart based, something along hte lines of start sshd should do the trick | 00:49 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: ALSA can do whatever you want. It's a monster. | 00:50 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: alsa has some ugly api too | 00:50 |
| javispedro | it has a giant and complex plugin API that would put PA's to shame. | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh, and PA API is clean and nice, yeah? | 00:50 |
| vdv | upstart? | 00:50 |
| cehteh | i dont say that | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | just as long as you don't want to do real stuff | 00:50 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you know my opinion: compared to ALSA, PA is clean. | 00:50 |
| cehteh | i just say everything is the same crap | 00:50 |
| cehteh | well jackd got easy .. but is a special purpose | 00:51 |
| javispedro | esd was also crap, but the crap you understand.. | 00:51 |
| cehteh | yes | 00:51 |
| cehteh | and oss :) | 00:51 |
| * nox- likes freebsd's oss `rewrite', rarely do freebsd users need any `sound daemons'... | 00:52 | |
| vdv | i've installed dropbear ssh server and client | 00:52 |
| cehteh | linux doesnt need sound daemons either .. i dont run them | 00:52 |
| vdv | is there another one? | 00:52 |
| cehteh | vdv use openssh not dropbear | 00:52 |
| merlin1991 | vdv openssh is in the repos | 00:52 |
| javispedro | I still think a daemon is a good idea. Hiding sound mixing behind the kernel wall (ossv4) or behind a giant userspace abstraction library that noone fully understands (ALSA) is a bad solution. | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | loosely related: I had to restart audio yesterday, because guess who blew chunks | 00:53 |
| javispedro | a sound daemon you can kill, and monitor. | 00:53 |
| javispedro | (and debug) | 00:54 |
| vdv | ah ok, thanks | 00:54 |
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| cehteh | javispedro: some compund kernel/userspace thing would be nice .. and a library giving you only reasonable frontends | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: javispedro isn't as noisy about it as I'm but he's clearly even more savvy about PA uselesness | 00:55 |
| cehteh | that is you have devices where you and stuff the sample data to and some control channel for mixing and synchronization | 00:55 |
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| wazd | http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/07/apple-patent-apps-describe-smart-pens-for-notetaking-and-long/ | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: and more objective, as I started to hate PA even more the very day I learnt it's from same guy like avahi | 00:56 |
| cehteh | (mmap()'ed char devices?) | 00:56 |
| wazd | mother.fuckers. | 00:56 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: haha yes avahi is the same crap :P | 00:56 |
| javispedro | wazd: using patents to try and guess future product development? good luck ;) | 00:57 |
| wazd | I was cradling an idea of such a pen for almost 3 years :( | 00:57 |
| javispedro | wazd: probably they're just preparing for the next patent troll appearance. | 00:57 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: but as i saied earlier, i just discovered his libasyncns .. which is well done and right what i need | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | and avahi is a pain in my lower end since it came to linux and killed all the networks in the neighbourhood | 00:57 |
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| wazd | javispedro: seriously, rechargable traceable pen is much better for portable device than additional inductive layer to power it | 00:58 |
| cehteh | haha | 00:58 |
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| wazd | damn :( | 00:59 |
| javispedro | wazd: have no experience with inductive... | 01:00 |
| wazd | javispedro: wacom? :) | 01:00 |
| * javispedro has now tried a livescribe pen and is now definitely interested in one, so I will be buying one (and connecting to n9{5,0}0 ;) ) | 01:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer | you could say avahi is prototypically poettering | 01:00 |
| javispedro | (via usb host :) ) | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~poettering | 01:01 |
| infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'' | 01:01 |
| wazd | javispedro: well, yes, something between livescribe and wacom | 01:01 |
| javispedro | wazd: yep, but didn't though passive inductive screens were so power hungry | 01:01 |
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| wazd | javispedro: maybe not, but additional layer above the screen sucks anyway | 01:02 |
| javispedro | oh | 01:02 |
| javispedro | above? | 01:02 |
| wazd | javispedro: kills contrast, makes it significantly thicker | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically I learned to hate avahi like virtually nothing else on linux, then I learned to hate PA even more than avahi, then eventually I noticed they are of same origin | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I thought WTF!?!! | 01:02 |
| javispedro | wazd: I do not think there's anything in passive that forces a layer to be above the screen (unlike resistive) | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | there *must* be something with this Mr Poettering | 01:03 |
| wazd | javispedro: yep, maybe I'm wrong. But it makes it thicker anyway :D | 01:04 |
| wazd | javispedro: I have tm2 and the screen part weights more than the base :D | 01:04 |
| javispedro | heh | 01:05 |
| javispedro | that might be the case :) | 01:05 |
| wazd | javispedro: well, not quite more, but you can't open it to wide angle | 01:05 |
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| wazd | it falls to the back | 01:05 |
| javispedro | usual hp build quality ;) | 01:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I didn't really like uppstart until I read the website with docs and how it should work. Just when I started to see the good as well in upstart, somebody says "let's do the ueber-upstart now!" and surprise surprise it's Lennart | 01:06 |
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| javispedro | you saw the good in upstart? | 01:06 |
| * javispedro is surprised | 01:06 | |
| javispedro | though I might have been influenced by older MeeGo's "our choice of init couldn't matter less because we do not have any services to boot" | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | the event driven concept has its merits | 01:06 |
| nid0 | tbh, im glad as hell 99% of my nix use is servers, not having to deal with the terrible trash on user systems | 01:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nid0: :-) | 01:07 |
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| wazd | javispedro: well, otherwise it's an amazing laptop to be fair :) | 01:08 |
| javispedro | if you have the time, use gentoo -- being source based it's very easy to patch everything you want in and everything you would prefer to insert into someone's *** out ;) | 01:08 |
| javispedro | wazd: hehe. | 01:08 |
| holmesII | /usr/include/dbus-1.0/dbus/dbus.h , is this path correct? | 01:08 |
| cehteh | s/gentoo/nixos/ :) | 01:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arch really sounds like it might suite DocScrutinizer. | 01:08 |
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| cehteh | if you want it weird and want full control then nothing is better than nixos | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: (upstart) though aiui e.g. suse used a sysv-init that did all the parallelism and dependency checking and whatnot that allegedly is new in upstart - and it's using this sysv-init since 10 years | 01:09 |
| javispedro | suse, and debian, and gentoo.. | 01:10 |
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| * cehteh using sysv init with 'file-rc' ... good enough for me | 01:10 | |
| javispedro | not for 10 years probably though. | 01:10 |
| cehteh | i reboot once a month or so :) | 01:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | duh, tha much? | 01:10 |
| cehteh | i mean one of my machines | 01:10 |
| cehteh | not each | 01:11 |
| nid0 | I have to reboot that regularly on my workstation, stupid patch tuesday :< | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | darn, uptime only 28 days here | 01:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | usually my laptop has uptimes of nnn | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | days | 01:11 |
| cehteh | my desktop once had about 500 days uptime | 01:11 |
| cehteh | but well since its ati graphics and i installed googlearth i have to reboot sometimes :P | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, colleague updated centos on our box 85 days ago | 01:12 |
| cehteh | i dont aim for high uptimes anymore .. i just reboot when i am after it | 01:13 |
| cehteh | some fsck here and there is a good thing | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I just hate booting, the uptime doesn't matter really | 01:13 |
| cehteh | also finding spurious bugs that something dosnt come up after a reboot and you cant remember what you changed 300 days ago on the system and broken it | 01:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I actually did umount; fsck; mount sometimes | 01:14 |
| cehteh | except for the root fs :P | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | when the disk told me 400 days passed w/o fsck | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah :-) | 01:15 |
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| cehteh | i started to have only /boot and / no subpartitioning anymore, filesystems got better and having only one encrypted partition | 01:15 |
| cehteh | someday i may use btrfs subvolumes for mountpoints | 01:16 |
| cehteh | but first btrfs needs to become useable :P | 01:16 |
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| cehteh | i dont use it at all yet | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~xyawn | 01:16 |
| infobot | methinks xyawn is strong coffee | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 01:16 |
| holmesII | what does this mean? when i compile, i got this /usr/include/dbus-1.0/dbus/dbus.h:29:33: error: dbus/dbus-arch-deps.h: No such file or directory. I did found dbus-arch-deps.h in there. so what wrong with that? | 01:17 |
| javispedro | don't ya love when some guy adds "occasional crashes" to "release notes.txt" and then wanders off without any comments or a bugreport or some other file in the commit to help me relate where the crashes come from | 01:17 |
| holmesII | i copied the include folder from Ecbox enviroment to my N900 | 01:17 |
| cehteh | holmesII: how do you compile? | 01:17 |
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| javispedro | first and foremost.. | 01:18 |
| javispedro | holmesII: what do you want to do? why are you not using qtmobility? | 01:18 |
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| cehteh | haha | 01:18 |
| cehteh | javispedro: stop that he is bloody beginner | 01:18 |
| javispedro | and for that reason, qtmobility is way easier.. | 01:18 |
| holmesII | i found a example here http://maemo.org/development/training/maemo_platform_development_content/plain_html/node10/ | 01:18 |
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| holmesII | and copy the dbus-example.c and Makefile | 01:19 |
| javispedro | holmesII: you want to do what? | 01:19 |
| holmesII | put them in one folder and make | 01:19 |
| javispedro | more higher level | 01:19 |
| holmesII | try to compile and run the program. I am a learner | 01:19 |
| javispedro | so that we can tell you to go the Qt way if it is possible for you, because the Qt way shall be much easier. | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I hear "from Ecbox enviroment to my N900" and gather a bloody beginner tries to get a build environment up and running on N900 | 01:19 |
| holmesII | what is QT? | 01:19 |
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| javispedro | ok | 01:20 |
| * javispedro searches for that getting started with maemo qt page but can't find it. | 01:20 | |
| DocScrutinizer | http://zetcode.com/tutorials/qt4tutorial/ | 01:21 |
| Messer | whoever is killing linux on phones should be disembowled | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pyqt4 | 01:22 |
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| javispedro | so. | 01:24 |
| javispedro | holmesII: you should download the Qt SDK http://www.developer.nokia.com/Develop/Qt/Tools/ | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha, N950 breathing light dead. No indications it's actually up and sucking battery | 01:24 |
| holmesII | thanks! i just finished the introduction. I don't think i have to use it. because what i need is very simple, just write a simple c program to get battery information. maybe HAL API is enough for me. however, i did some search in the past few days. got no very clear clue in there. and nobody can point me out the way. | 01:25 |
| javispedro | because the HAL API is not simple in any way. | 01:25 |
| javispedro | Qt is simple. | 01:25 |
| holmesII | is QT good to compile thing and make it running in N900(maemo 5)? | 01:26 |
| javispedro | yes. | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed, Qt is amazingly simple and powerful | 01:26 |
| merlin1991 | ask MohammadAG, he'll praise qt over everything ;) | 01:26 |
| javispedro | holmesII: see for example: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtcreator-snapshot/creator-mobile-example.html | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | sometimes butt ugly | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | memory hog of giant dimensions | 01:27 |
| holmesII | i dont' need UI. i just need to read battery information and as quick as it can (with least power usage) | 01:27 |
| javispedro | holmesII: well, compiling must be done on a desktop, be it windows or sth else. | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | but definitely fun and simple | 01:27 |
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| MohammadAG | it's not dead | 01:28 |
| MohammadAG | it's a FIXME | 01:28 |
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| javispedro | holmesII: Qt does not mandate a UI. | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | holmesII: these are TWO absolutely non-learner requirements that make me think you're after a way more complex task - complex in a sense of "needs proper system architecture" | 01:29 |
| javispedro | holmesII: and the example page I linked to even has examples into how to read battery level. | 01:29 |
| MohammadAG | so does the source I linked you to | 01:29 |
| javispedro | QSystemDeviceInfo * deviceInfo = new QSystemDeviceInfo(this); | 01:29 |
| javispedro | deviceInfo->batteryLevel(); | 01:29 |
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| MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer> memory hog of giant dimensions | 01:29 |
| javispedro | cannot really be more simple than that. | 01:29 |
| MohammadAG | Harmattan solves that | 01:29 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, pointers say hai | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | holmesII: reading from HAL "as quick as it can" is mere nonsense, as HAL itself is slow | 01:30 |
| holmesII | yes. i see. thanks guys. i will try it tonight. i got go home and eat :) lol. The page you shown me seems very very simple | 01:30 |
| MohammadAG | merlin1991, Qt > Termana | 01:30 |
| MohammadAG | naw, he's offline | 01:30 |
| merlin1991 | who's offline, Termana? | 01:31 |
| holmesII | btw, can i install QT on windows? | 01:31 |
| holmesII | i'm downloading something here and don't want to reboot my machine | 01:31 |
| javispedro | holmesII: yes, you can install the Qt SDK in Windows, you'll see the screenshots are made on windows btw ;) | 01:31 |
| holmesII | thanks! hope to see you here tonight!! | 01:31 |
| Messer | whens the next conference in germany? | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | *sigh* | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | I smell drama | 01:32 |
| javispedro | maemo conference?, meego conference? | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> i just need to read battery information and as quick as it can (with least power usage)<< This won't be a happy ending | 01:33 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: no. not an easy target for a beginner either way. | 01:33 |
| Messer | Javis any thing related | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: reading battery "as fast as possible" clearly indicates a FUBAR concept | 01:34 |
| javispedro | Messer: potentially meego conf, next year during spring, and again in SF | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | as there's no use whatsoever in doing that | 01:34 |
| javispedro | (that's what I heard last) | 01:34 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: battery profilig | 01:35 |
| javispedro | *profiling | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | BS | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | once a minute is more than enough for that | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | just poll it! | 01:35 |
| * javispedro needs music | 01:35 | |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, yes, correct. | 01:35 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: ok, good to know. | 01:36 |
| javispedro | (at least going back to yearly is better than ... nothing..) | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't even have *sensors* that yield any new values at a rate significantly faster then once every 5 s | 01:36 |
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| Messer | god bless microsoft | 01:37 |
| Messer | They blocked a hardware trojan in kinect | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | not to mention the capacity_percentage he wants to read out "as fast as possible" - this value isn't going to change any more often that every minute or so | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/that ev/than ev/ | 01:38 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: not to mention the capacity_percentage he wants to read out "as fast as possible" - this value isn't going to change any more often than every minute or so | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | my prophecy stands - this won't be a happy ending | 01:39 |
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| MohammadAG | Jaffa, the N950 lacks Skype? | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | and "of course" | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | Skype is proprietary and Skype is M$ now | 01:40 |
| javispedro | and Nokia is a M$ subsidiary fwiw | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | I can't see Nokia nor Skype invest in porting Skype to meego | 01:41 |
| javispedro | I think the final one will have skype | 01:41 |
| javispedro | otherwise this communities dominate guy will end up being right.... | 01:41 |
| javispedro | which is worrying ;) | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | not if Elop has to decide | 01:41 |
| cehteh | no skype on the n9? | 01:41 |
| javispedro | calm down, calm donw. | 01:41 |
| cehteh | haha | 01:41 |
| javispedro | no skype on the protos, but who knows on final one. | 01:42 |
| cehteh | ok i dont want a n9 and i want to cancel skype anyways | 01:42 |
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| cehteh | they work hard to make it bad right? | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I tested SIP on harmattan-950 today... poor audio quality | 01:42 |
| RzR950 | i see the telepathy package is installed but not avail through ui | 01:42 |
| * DocScrutinizer has to check the settings | 01:43 | |
| RzR950 | DocScrutinizer: maybe we can test toguether tomorow | 01:43 |
| RzR950 | i did set it too | 01:43 |
| RzR950 | rzr(a)ekiga.net | 01:43 |
| cehteh | how much n950 are produced at all? .. few thousands? | 01:43 |
| Messer | how is battwry life on n950? | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: prolly | 01:43 |
| cehteh | well it is at least somewhat unique and limited you wont see much of them :P | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | Messer: exorbitant, as there's nothing running that could suck battery ;-P I.E. it's meaningless to answer this based on a OS proto | 01:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | cehteh, I figure it's got to be at least 5. | 01:45 |
| javispedro | it has "DEVELOPER EDITION" as well as "BREAK ME" plastered all over the place | 01:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | under that and it's just too expensive. | 01:45 |
| cehteh | are there official prices? | 01:45 |
| javispedro | other than the 500€ "fine" if you lose/break it.. | 01:47 |
| Macer | damn | 01:48 |
| Macer | i need to get to this store and buy a damn t6 screwdriver and see about fixing this damn n900 already | 01:48 |
| * DocScrutinizer glares at http://94.199.118.194/devkit/ bg.jpg textinput(id:password... | 01:49 | |
| MohammadAG | I still don't get why I didn't get a "A Nokia N950 is waiting for you" email | 01:49 |
| MohammadAG | I ordered it but still :( | 01:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | cehteh, small-batch N900 protos were probably 1000-1500 Euros | 01:49 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, | 01:50 |
| MohammadAG | there's already skype for the N9 | 01:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: Nokia mails fight ALL spamfilter methods you can think of | 01:50 |
| cehteh | GeneralAntilles: yeah my thinking about then n950 was about 1200Eur | 01:50 |
| Macer | is the n9 even out yet? | 01:50 |
| cehteh | if they sell it | 01:50 |
| cehteh | Macer: no | 01:50 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, check spam, no email | 01:50 |
| divan | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU3XHnd5Lo0 | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: my OM mail server *rejected* the nokia mails | 01:51 |
| Messer | N900 is about 250 eu used | 01:51 |
| divan | oops, wrong window sorry | 01:51 |
| * javispedro checks spam folder .... *buy sth online at the leading online generic pharmacy* ... quickly closes window. | 01:52 | |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: gmail for example is known to sometimes delay mails for days | 01:52 |
| cehteh | btw when will maemo.org be shut down? :) | 01:52 |
| MohammadAG | NEVAR | 01:52 |
| javispedro | at this rate, probably after meego.com is ;) | 01:52 |
| Macer | oh wow | 01:52 |
| javispedro | j/k ;) | 01:52 |
| cehteh | hehe | 01:53 |
| Macer | i was able to take out the torx screws with a damn flathead | 01:53 |
| Macer | :) | 01:53 |
| Macer | awesome | 01:53 |
| nid0 | google's one of the worst large providers to ensure deliverability to though | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: the TX4 on 950? | 01:53 |
| MohammadAG | according to javispedro, development for the N950 should only be around maemo | 01:53 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: you already disassembled your n950? | 01:53 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, achipa knows | 01:53 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: no .. the n900 | 01:53 |
| Macer | heh | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: nope | 01:53 |
| Macer | my usb port broke off remember? | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 01:54 |
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| MohammadAG | T4? seriously? :| | 01:54 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: but then I'm one of the first guys testing my stuff under meegonetbook ;) | 01:54 |
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| MohammadAG | T6 was small enough | 01:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, if you break off the head on reassemble then you are -- muhahaha - screwed | 01:54 |
| MohammadAG | mv javispedro /dev/null | 01:54 |
| MohammadAG | ironic choice of words | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG | well done | 01:55 |
| cehteh | tx6 is the smallest one i have here | 01:55 |
| javispedro | mv: inter-device move failed: `javispedro' to `/dev/null'; unable to remove target: Permission denied | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG | sudo su; dpkg -r aegis*; mv javispedro /dev/null | 01:56 |
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| MohammadAG | anyone brave enough to do that btw? | 01:56 |
| javispedro | sadly, device exploded after removing aegis | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | hah, I bought a TX4 long ago, when I got me a TX6, as I thought "now *if* I ever need that one..." | 01:56 |
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| cehteh | i wonder why they didnt used TR torx .. just to make it harder | 01:57 |
| cehteh | well dunno whats the minimum size for TR .. prolly 6 is already too small | 01:58 |
| cehteh | but hey there are 5 or 7 notch variants too :P | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 01:59 |
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| * GeneralAntilles rages about lazy Finns. | 02:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer | btw let's face it: 8GB MyDocs, no uSD slot. This isn't really my dream device | 02:17 |
| Macer | well | 02:19 |
| Macer | i'll be damned | 02:19 |
| Macer | superglue ftw | 02:19 |
| Macer | heh | 02:19 |
| Macer | it seems to have actually worked... the usb port still gives it a charge | 02:19 |
| Macer | going to let it dry out now and slap some more on it to make a nice little plastic lock heh | 02:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you're aware the green stuff on the PCB is some varnish that doesn't really stick as much as you'd like it to do? | 02:25 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | is the N950 screen's width less than the N900's | 02:32 |
| Messer | no | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, pixel are same iirc, dimensions in mm the N950 is larger | 02:34 |
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| Macer | damnit | 02:37 |
| Macer | guess not | 02:37 |
| Macer | 2 of the tracks broke off the usb port :( | 02:37 |
| Macer | UGH | 02:37 |
| Macer | does an n810 use the same usb port? | 02:37 |
| Messer | no | 02:37 |
| Macer | damn | 02:38 |
| Macer | wow this sucks | 02:38 |
| Macer | i thought i had it going but there are two tracks that broke off.. the other 3 were fine but it just won't work | 02:38 |
| Macer | i need a replacement usb port.. anywhere i can buy one? | 02:38 |
| Messer | Wou can buy an external charger | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | ~n950order | 02:38 |
| infobot | [n950order] https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 and wait for "internal error" changing to something wonderful eventually :-) | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: I feel sorry with you. It's probably now incredibly hard to fix this again | 02:38 |
| Macer | http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-Port-Charging-Connector-NOKIA-N86-N900-7210C-5220C-/220754421623?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item3365fd2777#ht_1916wt_802 | 02:39 |
| Macer | won't that work? | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: looks very good | 02:41 |
| Macer | are the tracks soldered on? | 02:41 |
| Macer | or are the 4 solder points on the corner how it is kept in place? | 02:41 |
| Macer | and do those 4 solder points actually server a purpose or are they only used to keep it in place? | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are 5 golden electrical pins and 4 "steel" mechanical support latches | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | all are soldered | 02:43 |
| Macer | i don't understand how you would be able to solder those points | 02:44 |
| Macer | maybe get them hot then throw the port onto it rather quickly | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually on the original there seem to be 6 mech support pads to solder the component to | 02:44 |
| Macer | although the pins might not require solder depending on how the port sits | 02:45 |
| Macer | i can't see how you can do it without pulling the board completely out | 02:45 |
| Macer | and figuring out some sort of way to do it from the opposite side? | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can't | 02:45 |
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| Macer | well i ordered the new usb port with the proper tracks | 02:46 |
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| Macer | it was only $3 | 02:46 |
| Macer | maybe i can take it to an electronics expert and see if they can get it all together for me | 02:46 |
| Messer | if you can fix broken usb ports you can make money | 02:46 |
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| Macer | heh | 02:46 |
| Macer | well i just ordered the new one that is supposed to fit the n900 | 02:46 |
| Macer | but i am lost as to how you get this thing back on there once it ripped off | 02:47 |
| Macer | talk about a crap job by nokia in its design :) | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | but Macer, honestly you rcomments about superglue, about "maybe needs no solder" and about how to solder a SMT component, they make me doubt you should try to do that DIY | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: the idea with electronics expert definitely is the best one :-) | 02:47 |
| Macer | well. the diy says to use superglue/epoxy to get it to "stick" to the board | 02:48 |
| Macer | i guess by simply holding the tracks onto the pinouts | 02:48 |
| Macer | i mean it sounds like a bad way to do it but it is better than what i have now ;) which is no usb port | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | WHO says such rubbish? | 02:48 |
| Macer | uhm... one sec... i'll find the link | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | the arab terrorist troll? | 02:49 |
| Messer | Superglue is not a good way to mount electronics components | 02:50 |
| Macer | talk.maemo.org.... | 02:50 |
| Macer | 74544 | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, cba to reconstruct an URL of this | 02:50 |
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| Macer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74544 | 02:51 |
| Macer | was using my g2 in another room to read the site while i was working on it | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | i'm a terrorist :P | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | __________________ | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm jus' another troll serving his purpose. | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | the whole pst is maximum BS | 02:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the worst thing is he maybe really did what he writes | 02:53 |
| Macer | well.. it worked for a split second but the superglue isn't that good as a "holder" | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's not exactly easy to ask chemist to take the whole thread down | 02:54 |
| Macer | and using epoxy without knowing for sure it will charge seemed like a bad idea | 02:54 |
| Macer | but it charged for about 20 seconds untili bumped the power cable | 02:55 |
| Macer | and it ripped the port off the glue heh | 02:55 |
| Macer | so i had to try to bend the tracks back down again to try to get them to touch and they all snapped off :) | 02:55 |
| Messer | lcuk had a good workaround. A small shin to keep preasure on the usb connector | 02:55 |
| Macer | Messer: that sounds more complicated than figuring out how to solder it heh | 02:56 |
| Macer | i don't see how in the hell you could do it | 02:56 |
| Macer | you could probably put tiny pieces of solder on the solder points and samwich it with the usb port and melt it using the top of the port itself i suppose | 02:57 |
| Macer | but you would have to be an awesome solderer for that :) | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Solder paste | 02:57 |
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| Macer | SpeedEvil: there is solder paste? LOL | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | It's 50:50 solder balls and fluxx | 02:59 |
| SpeedEvil | (90:10 by weight | 02:59 |
| Macer | so if i get a new port and use solder paste and rest the usb port on the paste lined up | 02:59 |
| Macer | and heat it up it should stick? | 02:59 |
| SpeedEvil | you need ideally hot-air. heating the body with an iron may work | 02:59 |
| SpeedEvil | None of the pads have peeled off? | 02:59 |
| Macer | no | 02:59 |
| Macer | they are all there | 03:00 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 03:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm pondering resoldering my port. | 03:00 |
| SpeedEvil | It's showing signs of being dodgy | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | for this component you plate the pads with solder, plate the posts and pins of component with solder, apply proper acid free non-corrosive flux, and place the component and heat it until it settles nicely | 03:01 |
| * cehteh will enforce his port as soon warranty period is over | 03:01 | |
| SpeedEvil | yeah, that too | 03:01 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Do you happen to have a part number for the USB?/ | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, sorry. Seems digikey/mouser had none that exactly matched | 03:01 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: so cook it in the stove? | 03:01 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 03:01 |
| Macer | :) | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | some thruhole for the mech posts looked most promising, when you bend or cut them | 03:02 |
| SpeedEvil | No - not the oven! | 03:02 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: i was being funny | 03:02 |
| Macer | heh | 03:02 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 03:02 |
| Macer | i might try some paste and an iron on the body | 03:02 |
| SpeedEvil | conventional solder + flux is the simpler way | 03:03 |
| SpeedEvil | and as good | 03:03 |
| Macer | i will ask around and see if someone with a little bit more knowhow in chicago can do it for me :) | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: you hardly find solder paste in a store | 03:03 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: i don't mind waiting.. i've waited this long. i can order it online | 03:04 |
| cehteh | it has a relative short shelf life .. | 03:04 |
| cehteh | 6months or so | 03:04 |
| Macer | that sounds like something that is expensive heh | 03:04 |
| SpeedEvil | The balls oxisdise a bit on the surface due to oxygen diffusing into the container | 03:04 |
| cehteh | because its hygroscopic | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | you however may find a good marker pen filled with high quality electronic flux | 03:04 |
| SpeedEvil | this means that the flux wastes its activity on that oxide, so has none left over for the tracks | 03:05 |
| Macer | so what do i do with the flux? just paste it in place with it? | 03:05 |
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| cehteh | aspirin is excellent flux too .. but acid, you need to wash it off after soldering :P | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, you "varnish" the solder points with it | 03:05 |
| Macer | well that sounds easy enough | 03:05 |
| Macer | but i don't get how you place the solder within the flux | 03:06 |
| cehteh | well normal solder contains flux .. if you are fast soldering, tinning all parts before and work clean thats enough | 03:06 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: do a blog about fixing one heh | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | toldya, you plate the pads and posts and pins with solder | 03:06 |
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| cehteh | yeah | 03:07 |
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| Macer | make pictures | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: nope, not if you want to "reflow" it then | 03:07 |
| Macer | so.. you plate.. flux.. stick.. melt? | 03:07 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: the usb port is a simple SMD piece or? | 03:08 |
| cehteh | i mean not bga or something complex to solder | 03:08 |
| nox- | just seen in another #: http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2011/07/wanna-be-nokia-ceo-take-the-simple-quiz-to-see-if-youre-qualified.html | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: you don't want to know this. You want to find a nice dude who does | 03:08 |
| Macer | hahahah | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: no bga | 03:08 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: well.. i would like to try it myself.. i break the n900 i can buy a new one ;) | 03:08 |
| cehteh | should be relative simple to solder for someone who knows | 03:08 |
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| cehteh | problem is that people who cant solder try to bake the pcb :P | 03:09 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: so plate with solder... add flux... stick the port.. and burn the body to "reflow" the solder to get it to stick? | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: I however won't do a lesson about basic soldering skills here | 03:09 |
| Macer | awwww :) | 03:09 |
| cehteh | hot enough iron and soldering reasonable fast .. not to cool iron and heating it 2minutes | 03:09 |
| Macer | cehteh: short bursts heh | 03:10 |
| cehteh | yeah | 03:10 |
| cehteh | well i dont know how exactly it looks didnt disassemnled mine | 03:10 |
| Macer | well.. i will see about getting some solder and flux to see if i can get this new port i ordered on | 03:10 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: thank.. that seems like the best way tho. i hope it works ;) | 03:10 |
| Macer | the port will take weeks to get here anyways | 03:11 |
| cehteh | as i saied some days ago .. you can always solder some pig-tail cable with a port :P | 03:11 |
| cehteh | thats something even a newbie can do | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: basically there's no need for doing reflux at all on that one, you can do this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 | 03:11 |
| cehteh | looks a bit ugly to have a cable coming out of a cell phone | 03:11 |
| cehteh | but you can add a hostmode connector there then too :) | 03:11 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: that was my thinking | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | then do what's shown in that .zip there http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 | 03:12 |
| cehteh | haha .. having a 'kabelpeitsche' coming out of the phone .. micro usb female, normal usb male and charge pins | 03:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw the photo in that .zip shows a botch as ID pin is shorted to GND instead of connecting it to appropriate point of N900 circuit. Doesn't hurt much, but it's a botch anyway | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | macer however doesn't need to do this, as he says all 5 pads for electric pins are still there | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | just carefully resolder them *after* fixing USB receptacle like http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 | 03:20 |
| holmesII | installing QT is a terrible thing | 03:20 |
| Macer | want a pic? | 03:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Macer: I honestly don't want anything | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: I'm sharing advice for free, and it seems you're not too much interested in it | 03:21 |
| Macer | on the contrary | 03:21 |
| Macer | i am thankful | 03:21 |
| holmesII | i'm thinking of downloading the offline install package. | 03:21 |
| Macer | i will take it to an electronics expert here ;) | 03:21 |
| Macer | i would love to do it myself but maybe someone will do it for me for $10 | 03:22 |
| Macer | heh | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | nacit will help when you show that expert the pictures of the both URLs I pasted above | 03:22 |
| Macer | i will ask around once the port is about to show up | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: ^^^ | 03:23 |
| sid__ | can anyone suggest me a "rescue" OS which runs from mmc? | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | meego | 03:23 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: that 547991 looks quite the overkill heh | 03:23 |
| Macer | but i'm sure they didn't have any problems with it :) | 03:24 |
| sid__ | hmmm it associate always to the wrong wlan access point | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: it looks like a solid fix for a shaky component, made to last | 03:24 |
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| Macer | oh i agree :) | 03:24 |
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| Macer | wish i did that BEFORE it broke off | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I'll eventually do exactly that to my OK'ish USB, to save me headache later on | 03:25 |
| Macer | but i honestly didn't keep up with the usb ports having problems | 03:25 |
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| Macer | well..it is easy enough to get to | 03:26 |
| Macer | too bad mine broke before the fact.. now i am n900less | 03:26 |
| Macer | using this htc vision is like pulling teeth | 03:26 |
| Macer | omg i learned to appreciate meego so much more using android for a month | 03:26 |
| Macer | maemo :) | 03:26 |
| Macer | freudian slip | 03:27 |
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| Macer | if i can get it fixed i will buy a new keypad for it too.. or maybe a new housing if i can even find one.. i wouldn't mind turning my n900 red | 03:27 |
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| Macer | i doubt i can find something like that though.. even though i haven't looked | 03:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there are colored housings for N900 | 03:28 |
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| cehteh | otterbox is only available in black :P | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | not sure about quality of the make | 03:29 |
| cehteh | the otterbox is really great i have mine since 2 months or so now | 03:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.ecaseshop.com/nokia-n900-housing-replacement-case-shell-white-pi-3672.html | 03:32 |
| * cehteh has some doubts about the build quality of those | 03:33 | |
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| * DocScrutinizer too | 03:33 | |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway http://www.ecaseshop.com/advanced_search_result.php?categories_id=&keywords=n900&x=0&y=0 | 03:33 |
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| Macer | uhm | 03:37 |
| Macer | ecaseshop.com doesn't seem to wnt to work for me :) | 03:37 |
| mr_jrt | Been exploring some DBus lately, and I'm a bit intrigued about some weird behaviour. I'm trying to bring up the accounts UI, and it works fine using dbus-send. However, when I call it using QDbus, the first attempt fails (I suspect this is because it's spinning up the rtcom-accounts-ui process). The next attempt succeedes, but from the moment you close the dialog, after a minute or two the process goes away, regardless of you reopening the dialog (via dbus). | 03:37 |
| pauly | whats up doc? | 03:37 |
| cehteh | Macer: the server looks dogy to me too | 03:38 |
| mr_jrt | ...subsquent calls error with "Could not get owner of name 'com.nokia.AccountsUI': no such name"...presumably because the process has gone, and has no plans to restart. | 03:38 |
| Macer | cehteh: heh | 03:38 |
| cehteh | load average: 12.08, 6.93, 3.42 | 03:39 |
| cehteh | mhm maybe because i compile a 3.0 kernel meanwhile :P | 03:39 |
| Macer | the white one still has a black keyboard | 03:39 |
| cehteh | white keyboard would work bad with illumination | 03:39 |
| pauly | anyone want to trade to trade their n8 for my n900? | 03:39 |
| Macer | cehteh: ah. fair point. didn't think about that | 03:40 |
| cehteh | haha who recently received a n8 as replacement for his broken n900 from nokia? | 03:40 |
| Macer | the gold one doesn't look toob ad :) | 03:41 |
| Macer | doesn't say nokia on it tho :) | 03:41 |
| Macer | and i am guessing they don't sell a housing that changes the interior of the screen? | 03:41 |
| pauly | anyone want to trade to trade their n8 for my n900? | 03:41 |
| cehteh | Macer: is yours broken? | 03:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'd wonder WTF a all-white GSM antenna dummy would be for, esp since it's hidden behind the back cover | 03:42 |
| Macer | cehteh: the keyboard is faded | 03:43 |
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| Macer | the housing is pretty good tho | 03:43 |
| cehteh | just get a new keyboard mat then | 03:43 |
| cehteh | yes the antenna dummy made me think too | 03:43 |
| Macer | cehteh: i want to change the color ;) | 03:43 |
| Macer | if i get the usb port fixed i will buy a new black keypad and a new housing. probably the white one | 03:43 |
| cehteh | and iirc the nokia case is glass fibre reinfoced .. and the screen frame is metal | 03:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | pauly: what's up, did you and timeless not agree on a deal? | 03:44 |
| cehteh | if these are cheap plastic moulded parts then the device will be quite more fragile .. | 03:44 |
| Macer | the nokia case is glass fibrew reinforced? seriously? | 03:44 |
| cehteh | besides i dont expect that the parts fit well | 03:44 |
| cehteh | not sure but i think so | 03:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | pauly: btw please don't double-post | 03:45 |
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| cehteh | thats not rocket science with such plastic parts | 03:45 |
| Macer | cehteh: heh | 03:45 |
| Macer | i will check it out.. it's only $20 | 03:45 |
| Macer | who knows.. maybe they are better than you think ;) | 03:45 |
| cehteh | prolly a waste | 03:45 |
| Macer | but the usb port needs to come first | 03:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: actually a white kbd was extremely nice wrt backlight | 03:45 |
| Macer | cehteh: maybe but what if it does take a dive and the housing cracks? | 03:45 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: if designed for that | 03:46 |
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| Macer | DocScrutinizer: cehteh i think the black kb would go well with the black touchscreen | 03:46 |
| cehteh | black touchscreen? | 03:46 |
| Macer | none of the housings seem to have anything to replace the front underneath the glass part of the touch screen | 03:46 |
| pauly_ | i want n8!!!!!!! | 03:46 |
| pauly_ | grrr | 03:46 |
| cehteh | ah | 03:47 |
| cehteh | no idea | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: you can't replace that, it's the touchpad | 03:47 |
| cehteh | the whole front is the resistive foil | 03:47 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: i figured ;) | 03:47 |
| Macer | so the black wouldn't be too off.. it would be black and white .. might look pretty nice | 03:48 |
| cehteh | there where rumors that the entire front is touch resistive but nokia only uses the part over the display .. would be nice to have a scroller right :/ | 03:48 |
| Macer | even though the stock n900 is a beautiful phone.. at least i thinks so | 03:48 |
| Macer | it is a well made phone .. minus the stupid usb port | 03:48 |
| cehteh | well it looks a bit like a brick :P | 03:49 |
| Macer | so do most htcs | 03:49 |
| cehteh | the n9 looks way more sleek .. but less features | 03:49 |
| Macer | no qwerty | 03:49 |
| Macer | that alone makes it fail | 03:49 |
| Macer | and i bet meego will have a horrible vkb | 03:49 |
| cehteh | and with the otterbox it looks even a bit more brick :) | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: (whole front) a funny idea, I need to figure how to test that | 03:49 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: twist stskeeps arm | 03:49 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i got my information from a nokia employee | 03:50 |
| Macer | he probably has the secret of the hidden touch space | 03:50 |
| cehteh | better dont say who :) | 03:50 |
| holmesII | i finally download the huge QT SDK | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, should be simple enough to find out about the TP controller and how to get extended readings out of it | 03:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually that would be so AWESOME | 03:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but I honestly doubt it will pan out | 03:52 |
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| cehteh | not exported to the kernel at least od /dev/input/ts | 03:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, you need way more hardcore access | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | direct I2C talking to the TP-controller | 03:53 |
| cehteh | ah i get readings a least a fe milimeters over the display corner | 03:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's known | 03:53 |
| pauly_ | anyone in baltimore | 03:53 |
| * SpeedEvil tries to get up the energy to poke at the n950. | 03:53 | |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: and I think that's it really | 03:53 |
| cehteh | about 3 mm left and right | 03:53 |
| cehteh | well this was just a rumor i dont really believe it | 03:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | pauly_, Baltimorons? | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | you need to contact the planes somewhere, and you won't get meaningful readings for touchpoints outside that limited area | 03:55 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: well ideally this could be made with the frame | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | doubt it | 03:55 |
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| cehteh | linux-image-3.0.0-rc6+_3.0.0-rc6+-10.00.Custom_amd64.deb | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, the 950 indicator switches from slow white breathing to constant white when charging finished. I start to wonder if they actually got a white LED in there | 03:58 |
| cehteh | haha debian packaging borks on the version number still | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | I thought it was only a mono LED | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | You're not thinking it's colour? | 03:59 |
| cehteh | when you look closely you can see that | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | not on N950 | 03:59 |
| cehteh | its all colors at once :P | 03:59 |
| cehteh | ok only blue and yellow but thats another thing | 03:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Blue and yellow is a phosphor artifiact | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | YES!!! | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | The LED is really blue. | 04:00 |
| pauly_ | baltimore, md? | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | prism, check spectrum | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | But it's made to look white by adding a yellow pigment | 04:00 |
| cehteh | i know | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | The same is true with pretty much all white LEDs | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | You can't turn the yellow off | 04:00 |
| cehteh | i buyed some warm white bars .. and when you look carefully you see some violet tint ... i wonder if that are violet/uv leds with multiple phosphors | 04:01 |
| cehteh | so reboot lets see if they fixed bluetooth in 3.0 .. it got broken in .39 | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Nope. | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | I did the prism check on some white LEDs some time ago, you clearly see the blue from LED plus the yellow-orangish phosphor spread spectrum | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | _all_ white LEDs are Blue+phosphor | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Essentially. There are very rare RGB mixed ones - but those are costly and lower in efficiency. | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Blue LEDs approach closely 50% efficiency from electricity to light. | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | It's more efficient to make white with phosphors from this blue. | 04:04 |
| cehteh | nice BT works again | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | dang you can *see* the yellow | 04:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so it's a white monocolor | 04:07 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: see it on the positive side .. no more pita with led patterns :P | 04:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | haha | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I consider N950 a rather low-cost approach. Lots of small expensive details got "optimized". No stereo speakers, no RGB-LED indicator, apparently no bq27200 battery gauge... | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | no camera trigger key | 04:09 |
| pauly_ | i want nokia n8 | 04:09 |
| cehteh | oh .. how unexpected :P | 04:09 |
| cehteh | i speculated about that over a year ago | 04:10 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: is the cpu socket compatible with the n900? | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 04:10 |
| cehteh | desolder it put it on the n900 .. | 04:11 |
| cehteh | inkl ram | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | nfc, but I'd bet on no | 04:11 |
| cehteh | btw is is really 1GB ram or what? | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, how do I check nowadays? | 04:11 |
| cehteh | well 1ghz cpu and 1GB ram is all i want for my n900 | 04:11 |
| cehteh | top? | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 04:11 |
| cehteh | Mem: 221692K used, 23712K free, 0K shrd, 712K buff, 63308K cached | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah wait, busybox has builtin top | 04:12 |
| cehteh | yeah its crap but shows at least basic memory stats | 04:12 |
| cehteh | cat /proc/swaps | 04:14 |
| cehteh | too | 04:14 |
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| cehteh | cat /proc/meminfo | 04:14 |
| cehteh | cat /proc/cpuinfo | 04:14 |
| cehteh | can you just post that on the wiki? | 04:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | 590M used 414M free, 22M buffers, --- 327M cached | 04:15 |
| cehteh | cool | 04:15 |
| cehteh | 1gb no lie | 04:15 |
| cehteh | thats a plan . .so how about desoldering and put it on the n900? | 04:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | incl TWL5030? | 04:18 |
| cehteh | not necessary .. (thats graphics and dsp?) | 04:18 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: naah - power managment | 04:19 |
| cehteh | ah | 04:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's PMU plus all sorts o' crap - audio etc | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | kbd | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: The best case would be that you can desolder teh RAM and put it on top of the n900 CPU | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | vib | 04:19 |
| cehteh | including magnetometer :) | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | The n900 CPU can handle 1G of - properly configured - RAM | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: err - no | 04:19 |
| cehteh | haha | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | The magnetometer is a seperate chip | 04:19 |
| cehteh | i mean i miss that on the n900 | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | I question if there exist any RAM chips that are actually suitable to give the n900 1G though | 04:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no compass app on N950 :-/ | 04:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I found 512M, but I can't find if it's actually available | 04:20 |
| cehteh | well and n900 with 1GB ram would be twice as fast and consume less power i suspect | 04:20 |
| cehteh | 512 would be already a relief | 04:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Also, you could bump the speed grade on the CPU to a 720MHz part | 04:20 |
| cehteh | more ram first and foremost | 04:21 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 04:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Or work out compressed swap | 04:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, hey, ho, go download Columbus. | 04:21 |
| cehteh | compressed swap got a lot better with recent kernels .. | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | err uhuh | 04:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maps app needs a nokia mail(?) account | 04:22 |
| cehteh | lol | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ovi doesn count | 04:22 |
| cehteh | they gave you a n950 and now you have to sell your soul | 04:23 |
| cehteh | thats the deal wasnt it? | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, they can get some nice data for their nokia account | 04:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | still reluctant to insert any SIM though | 04:24 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, so, sans the limited storage and other issues. | 04:25 |
| GAN900 | How's't? | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | nice ME and ID | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | some will moan the USB still is on top - not me though. I know why | 04:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't ever talk with USB plugged in, so meh. | 04:26 |
| cehteh | i do .. but with headphone and n900 resting on my desk then | 04:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, I think I'm going to start writing haiku's about how much I hate you to while away the time this weekend. :P | 04:28 |
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| * SpeedEvil is trying to get energy up to care about n950/n9. | 04:29 | |
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| Messer | you are just getting old | 04:30 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a lot easier to care enough to write documentation about something you're likely/have got. | 04:30 |
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| RzR950 | X-Fade: ping, hi does obs support harmattan ? | 04:42 |
| holmesII | installing QT is a disaster. | 04:43 |
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| holmesII | i now installed QT in my windows 7. however, when I follow the instruction to create a project. in the target steup section, i can't find meamo 5 selection. any idea? | 04:56 |
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| holmesII | Hi, I just installed a QT in my windows 7 system. However, when I follow the instruction http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtcreator-snapshot/creator-mobile-example.html i can't find maemo 5 in (Target setup). any idea? | 05:11 |
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| Termana | good morning | 05:14 |
| holmesII | good evening. | 05:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | HAHA you need a mailaccount@ovi.com | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | fo rmaps on N950 | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | accounts@ovi.com are actually yahoo mails | 05:24 |
| GAN900 | Not particularly surprising. | 05:24 |
| GAN900 | How is the GPS setup? | 05:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and at yahoo you can log in with your account@ovi.com and password, BUT you get to a page "please confirm your password" and nowhere else, for mail - while all other functions work, like messenger etc | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | now if you try to create a new, or use an existing, ovi or yahoo mail account for maps, you get "service not available" on "Sign in" | 05:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | -->maps quits | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: please rephrase | 05:28 |
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| pauly | hey, iam i annoying? | 05:38 |
| pauly | am i ^ | 05:38 |
| cehteh | do you stop being annoying when we say 'yes'? | 05:38 |
| cehteh | :> | 05:38 |
| pauly | cehteh: seriously, am I? | 05:39 |
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| cehteh | i didnt noticed .. | 05:40 |
| pauly | yay! | 05:40 |
| * cehteh was away coding :P | 05:40 | |
| jonwil | ok, time to see if this code compiles :P | 05:44 |
| jonwil | Lets see if my clone of the mce vibrator plugin is gonna work | 05:45 |
| cehteh | BOOM :) | 05:46 |
| * cehteh wonders if one can burn/wear out the vibrator when applying excessive settings .. full current/voltage over minutes, finding some resonance frequency | 05:47 | |
| Macer | hahahhaha | 05:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, does the software seem usable? | 06:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | My benchmark right now is the Garmin navigation units. | 06:01 |
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| pauly | i need an n8 i cant handel it | 06:09 |
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| cehteh | pauly: well you better ask in a #symbian channel or somewhere else .. | 06:10 |
| cehteh | .o(it gets annoying) | 06:11 |
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| hiemanshu | GeneralAntilles: any update on the 950s? | 06:24 |
| Macer | http://tech.rancorous.net/?p=19 | 06:24 |
| Macer | wow and here i haven't touched that wp install i set up forever ago in forever haha | 06:24 |
| Macer | maybe if i get the usb port working again i will order that housing and do another one for that one as well :) | 06:25 |
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| cehteh | Macer: you are lucky that the pads didnt came off .. looks easy to repair | 06:29 |
| Macer | i suppose mine was simple wear and tear | 06:30 |
| Macer | from constantly plugging it in and out so it broke off rather cleanly | 06:30 |
| Macer | cehteh: my problem is how do you solder those tracks onto the pads ;) which is where i am going to have to take DocScrutinizer's advice and find an electronics expert to do it | 06:31 |
| cehteh | yes but most often the contact between solder and copper is beter than between copper and pcb base | 06:31 |
| Macer | ah i see | 06:31 |
| cehteh | when the traces, pads and wires are damaged things get much more hairy | 06:32 |
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| Macer | yeah. it seems to have simply... fallen off | 06:32 |
| Macer | maybe it was cheap solder that disintegrated :) | 06:32 |
| cehteh | haha | 06:32 |
| Macer | high iron content and oxidized off hehe | 06:32 |
| Macer | could have been from my overuse | 06:33 |
| Macer | and the solder melted off! | 06:33 |
| cehteh | lol | 06:33 |
| cehteh | i should really look after my connector .. but i am reclutant, the 2 years warranty period isnt over yet | 06:34 |
| Macer | it will break off 2 years 1 day ;) | 06:34 |
| cehteh | thats the day i'll fix it anyways | 06:34 |
| Macer | that way they force you to get an n9 or n950 (if they make it out there) | 06:34 |
| cehteh | actually it scares me more if nokia will give me a n8 for replacement | 06:34 |
| Macer | HAHAHA | 06:35 |
| cehteh | for what do i need a n8 :P | 06:35 |
| Macer | is the n8 that bad? | 06:35 |
| cehteh | its not maemo | 06:35 |
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| Macer | neither is meego ;) | 06:35 |
| Macer | i mean cmon... rpm? | 06:35 |
| Macer | fail | 06:35 |
| Macer | i need to find a better wp theme | 06:35 |
| cehteh | well at least its a linux with a reasonable complete userland | 06:35 |
| Macer | true | 06:36 |
| Macer | unlike android. omg this g2 has me losing it | 06:36 |
| Macer | i am pulling my hair out not having my n900 | 06:36 |
| Macer | I NEED MY ARROW KEYS!! | 06:36 |
| Macer | my ctrl key! XTERM!! | 06:36 |
| cehteh | 0000000015: POSTCONDITION: c9buf.c:93: thread_1: c9buf_commit: (self->wpos + n < self->buf + self->size) | 06:36 |
| cehteh | mhmpf .. | 06:36 |
| cehteh | maybe its time to fix bugs and add tests :P | 06:37 |
| Macer | heh | 06:37 |
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| Macer | ah well. guess all i do is wait for my port to show up | 06:38 |
| Macer | if it works i'll buy a couple extras just in case i ever have another nokia | 06:38 |
| cehteh | haha i doubt they fit universally | 06:41 |
| Macer | wtf | 06:42 |
| Macer | my wp site just died on me when i tried changing the theme | 06:43 |
| Macer | ugh! | 06:43 |
| cehteh | nice :P | 06:43 |
| Macer | i know! wth | 06:43 |
| cehteh | thats why i dont have a wordpress page :P | 06:44 |
| cehteh | git+asciidoc ftw | 06:44 |
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| Macer | it was the theme | 06:50 |
| Macer | odd. ah well. i just had to delete the theme and it went back to the dfault. i am trying to something a little more "simple" | 06:51 |
| jonwil | ok, new libvibrator.so is in place | 06:57 |
| jonwil | and my phone still boots | 06:57 |
| jonwil | which means mce should have loaded it | 06:57 |
| jonwil | oh wait no | 06:57 |
| Macer | libvibrator?? :) | 06:57 |
| Macer | what are you doing with your phone??? | 06:57 |
| jonwil | its the mce plugin for the phones vibrator | 07:00 |
| jonwil | used when you set the phone to vibrate | 07:00 |
| jonwil | so you can use it in places where you dont want it to make a loud noise when it rings | 07:01 |
| jonwil | :) | 07:01 |
| Macer | er.... :) so this is to turn the vibration down? | 07:01 |
| Macer | or to turn it into a makeshift dildo for emergency circumstances? | 07:02 |
| Macer | the awkward silence :) | 07:10 |
| jonwil | my plugin doesnt work | 07:10 |
| jonwil | I need to get syslog going and find out whats going on | 07:11 |
| jonwil | anyone know the right thing to put in syslog.conf to log everything? | 07:11 |
| jonwil | I cant get it to log userspace stuff | 07:16 |
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| jonwil | ok, its logging something but I dont know if its logging everything | 07:22 |
| jonwil | everything that it should be logging that is | 07:22 |
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| jonwil | Its logging mce messages that pass LOG_CRIT | 07:29 |
| jonwil | but not LOG_NOTICE | 07:29 |
| jonwil | how do I get it to log these LOG_NOTICE messages? | 07:29 |
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| jonwil | ok, got something useful now I think | 07:34 |
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| jonwil | nope | 07:36 |
| jonwil | cant get it to log LOG_NOTICE messages | 07:36 |
| jonwil | oh wait, I need to see what the logverbosity is | 07:39 |
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| hiemanshu | Morning | 07:43 |
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| jonwil | warning, do not attempt to kill or restart the mode control entity, it wont work :P | 07:48 |
| * jonwil slaps self in face | 07:54 | |
| jonwil | Might help if I didnt try to run an x86 binary on a N900 :P | 07:54 |
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| fredrin | why does bluetooth always lagg? | 08:00 |
| fredrin | i mean a BTH headset | 08:00 |
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| jonwil | fingers crossed that this works | 08:22 |
| jonwil | and that it loads the libvibrator.so properly | 08:22 |
| jonwil | and that said module works | 08:22 |
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| ieatlint | funny, the n950 comes with all the NFC libraries installed | 08:32 |
| * slonopotamus yawns | 08:34 | |
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| ieatlint | yeah, that's as interesting as i get. | 08:35 |
| slonopotamus | anyone successfully booted openwrt kernel on n8x0? | 08:36 |
| jonwil | ok, that was a bust | 08:46 |
| jonwil | All I succeeded in doing is to get mce to go crazy and my system to run slow and take forever to start various things (like the status bar with the widgets) | 08:47 |
| jonwil | Now back to the standard libvibrator.so | 08:47 |
| jonwil | will dump the code I have somewhere, make a mailing list post and see if anyone can help me find out why its not working | 08:47 |
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| hiemanshu | now F5, waiting for order sent email :/ | 09:21 |
| ruskie | lol | 09:22 |
| hiemanshu | so far every step has included a F5 or Ctrl/Cmd-R button | 09:22 |
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| kerio | jonwil: libvibrator huh | 09:29 |
| kerio | ¬.¬ | 09:30 |
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| robbiethe1st | kerio: Someone could have some /fun/ with that ¬.¬ | 09:36 |
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| ruskie | hmm does N900 support UMTS on the 900 band? | 09:43 |
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| jonwil | yes it does | 09:44 |
| jonwil | It does 900 but not 850 | 09:44 |
| ruskie | hmm nice | 09:45 |
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| jonwil | it does HDSPA 900/1700/2100 | 09:45 |
| ruskie | just found out that my cellco is gonna be upgrading their umts to get 85% coverage using umts 900 | 09:45 |
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| hiemanshu | gah, will nokia ship mine today :/ | 09:50 |
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| pedrito | HI | 09:55 |
| pedrito | heloo | 09:55 |
| pedrito | some one to talk here? | 09:55 |
| robbiethe1st | No | 09:56 |
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| Noobmonk3y | Urghhhhhhh hangover | 10:16 |
| hiemanshu | Noobmonk3y: tell me about it :P | 10:20 |
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| khertan | Morning ! | 10:36 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:40 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Yup, only built-in chat is Facebook. | 10:40 |
| hiemanshu | khertan: morning | 10:41 |
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| hiemanshu | w00t, new experimental features, Qt Quick Designer :D | 10:55 |
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| vdv | if i want to run bash on my n900, which package should i choose, bash3 or bash4? | 10:58 |
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| ruskie | vdv, depends on the version... both provide it | 11:00 |
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| alterego | Looks like I'm gonna have to wait for Quim to come back from Holidays, oh well. | 11:14 |
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| hiemanshu | alterego: and I am dieing waiting for the device to ship :/ | 11:16 |
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| hiemanshu | isn't it a 1 business day shipping time? | 11:16 |
| alterego | Depends on the time it was shipped. | 11:17 |
| hiemanshu | I mean, 1 business day from order to shipping | 11:18 |
| alterego | Depends on the time it was ordered | 11:18 |
| alterego | If it's too late in the day, then no, you wont get next day. | 11:18 |
| vdv | ruskie, description for bash3 contains "tuned for maemo", for bash4 there's no such hing | 11:18 |
| vdv | *hint | 11:19 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: around 6-ish PM .fi time | 11:19 |
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| hiemanshu | and GeneralAntilles orderd his around noon, and hasn't got it shipped yet | 11:19 |
| ruskie | vdv, I doubt there's much difference | 11:20 |
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| hiemanshu | alterego: http://twitter.com/#!/kypeli/status/89244218853294080 :( :( :( | 11:22 |
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| Shapeshifter | Why exactly is it a problem to use the closed maemo drivers in another distro? | 11:23 |
| robbiethe1st | Shapeshifter: Two things: One, you theoretically could do it, but you're limited to the same kernel version. | 11:23 |
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| robbiethe1st | And two, you can't distribute it without incurring the wrath of the IP gods. | 11:23 |
| robbiethe1st | But for our case, the former's more important | 11:24 |
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| robbiethe1st | Also of note is that our drivers only provide OpenGL-ES support, and most Linux apps need the full OpenGL stack, so it doesn't give us much benefit... unless we've got optimized applications, or a OpenGL-gles translator | 11:25 |
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| alterego | I wonder if they've had trouble matching up my accout because it's 10 years old. | 11:27 |
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| hiemanshu | alterego: I feel for you man, I know the sadness when others have it and I/you dont :( | 11:28 |
| hiemanshu | also, the F5 key is in my hand right now :P | 11:29 |
| hiemanshu | stupid KB | 11:29 |
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| robbiethe1st | hiemanshu: JB Kwik. Works wonders. | 11:31 |
| RST38h | OREDERED | 11:31 |
| robbiethe1st | (i.e. two-part epoxy) | 11:31 |
| alterego | I don't really care, would have been nicer sooner rather than later, but meh. | 11:31 |
| RST38h | i.e. ordered | 11:31 |
| hiemanshu | robbiethe1st: its a laptop :P I can fix it back easy | 11:32 |
| alterego | Now Quim has gone on holiday I don't really have anyone I can talk to to sort it out. | 11:32 |
| alterego | So I'm gonna have to wait until he gets back :/ | 11:33 |
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| hiemanshu | alterego: he said he is back next week right? | 11:33 |
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| Shapeshifter | robbiethe1st: I see. | 11:33 |
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| Shapeshifter | RST38h: you ordered what? | 11:34 |
| RST38h | There is only one thing I could have ordered, right? | 11:34 |
| alterego | No, he said he's gone for a week | 11:35 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: I thought the registration for a device closed a while ago | 11:35 |
| hiemanshu | Shapeshifter: ordered N950 | 11:35 |
| RST38h | not registered, Shapeshifter, ordered | 11:35 |
| alterego | Lets hope my N8 arrives today so I can play with some HDMI goodness. | 11:35 |
| RST38h | alterego: make sure you install that experimental media center form nokia | 11:36 |
| psycho_oreos | through ebay scam? | 11:36 |
| lardman | morning | 11:36 |
| lardman | Anyone got a DHL tracking number yet? | 11:36 |
| psycho_oreos | I've never seen one could `order' N950 apart from that ebay scam | 11:36 |
| RST38h | lardman: got email from ddp. ordered. | 11:36 |
| alterego | RST38h: I'll have a look, is that on labs? | 11:36 |
| RST38h | no tracking number though | 11:36 |
| psycho_oreos | ddp? | 11:36 |
| lardman | RST38h: same here | 11:36 |
| RST38h | alterego: yep. MohammadAG has details. | 11:36 |
| psycho_oreos | wait.. you went through that email application? | 11:37 |
| RST38h | he is using it | 11:37 |
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| hiemanshu | psycho_oreos: Developer Device Program, for the 250 approved meego hackers | 11:37 |
| psycho_oreos | hiemanshu, ah bah | 11:38 |
| hiemanshu | lardman: ordered yest, no details yes, though DocScrutinizer got his within 5 mins of order (device shipped email) | 11:38 |
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| lardman | ah well, perhaps they're bundling up our shipping | 11:39 |
| lardman | no chance of seeing it this weekend then | 11:39 |
| hiemanshu | lardman: yeah, hoping thats what is happening now | 11:39 |
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| lardman | Would be nice to see a shipped email this morning though as there's then a chance it could get here tomorrow | 11:41 |
| Shapeshifter | You all got Apps published on Ovi? | 11:42 |
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| lardman | I should add, on a different topic, that TalkTalk are truely craptastic, another 3 weeks until they will connect my broadband after a 3 week wait for a phone line. Argh! | 11:42 |
| alterego | lardman: they are shit, and all their call centres are in india .. | 11:42 |
| alterego | You should have gone with Virgin. | 11:43 |
| lardman | alterego: can't where we are | 11:43 |
| alterego | Lame :/ | 11:43 |
| lardman | should have gone with plusnet, but I was a talk talk customer before I moved, so I assumed they'd just get on with it | 11:43 |
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| alterego | You know virgin offer broad band through BT lines too .. | 11:43 |
| lardman | alterego: would be expensive though | 11:44 |
| alterego | m'kay | 11:44 |
| lardman | Shapeshifter: no, this is the meego ddp, which has different conditions to the nokia developer direct application | 11:44 |
| lardman | This comes out at ~£25/month all in, which is pretty good | 11:46 |
| lardman | as we're not local loop unbundled here, you need to add ~£11 to anyone else's deal except Bt | 11:46 |
| lardman | though TalkTalk did a deal, which is probably why they are not overly keen to sort me out sooner | 11:47 |
| lardman | buggers | 11:47 |
| alterego | lame | 11:47 |
| Shapeshifter | lardman: Ah I see. | 11:47 |
| hiemanshu | is there a way to use com.nokia.meego for the desktop as well? | 11:47 |
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| alterego | Well, I sent my details straight to launchpad in the hope they can corrolate my account in Quims absence. | 11:50 |
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| khertan | http://twitpic.com/5mvljv < i think i need help of an icon designer :) | 11:55 |
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| ProfPutz | icons look fine khertan | 11:58 |
| alterego | khertan: I like them .. | 11:59 |
| kerio | that means "i cba to make good icons for you" | 12:00 |
| khertan | alterego: it s not mine :) stolen from a cc gnome theme :) | 12:01 |
| alterego | Heh | 12:01 |
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| Termana | that means "i cba doing it myself either" | 12:05 |
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| hiemanshu | Termana: got the email yet? | 12:16 |
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| ludens | doers anyone here use firefox mobile? | 12:18 |
| ludens | i was advised by a friend to switch from microb to that, but it clogs up my system worse than anything ive ever seen | 12:18 |
| psycho_oreos | microb? | 12:19 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | i only ever use it in meego because its the only browser | 12:19 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah firefox mobile (known as nightly) is quite slow on N900, takes about 10 or so seconds to load up | 12:19 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | microb - Maemo's web browser built on mozilla, firefox desktop plugin compatible | 12:20 |
| Cor-Ai | yeah it sucks on n900! microb is the fastest i have tested! | 12:20 |
| psycho_oreos | not a whole bunch of firefox desktop plugins are supported notably :) | 12:21 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | someone needs to port microb to meego so it can use it with cordia :) | 12:21 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | using a few plugins, adblock, noscript, fasterfox, spped dns, ad ban | 12:22 |
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| [DarkGUNMAN] | fasterfox, speed dns, and ad ban make it run like lightning | 12:23 |
| psycho_oreos | you meant ad block | 12:23 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | nope, i mean ad ban | 12:23 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | i disabled adblock to test it | 12:24 |
| lardman | anyone having trouble with maemo.org garage svn commits? | 12:24 |
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| khertan | didn't use it since i try it :) | 12:25 |
| lardman | I get a cryptic message along the lines of: svn: OPTIONS of 'url to proximus here'@ 200 OK (https//vcs.maemo.org) | 12:25 |
| lardman | s/@/: | 12:25 |
| Termana | hiemanshu, which one? | 12:25 |
| hiemanshu | Termana: the N950 is waiting for you one? | 12:25 |
| Termana | hiemanshu, yeah, I ordered yesterday. Still waiting for a tracking number. | 12:26 |
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| hiemanshu | Termana: ah, same here | 12:26 |
| hiemanshu | Termana: thankfully no more fake mails :P | 12:27 |
| Termana | hiemanshu, ;) :p | 12:27 |
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| Termana | hiemanshu, Your tracking number is 1337101 | 12:28 |
| hiemanshu | Termana: got it? | 12:28 |
| nid0 | maybe you'll just get fake ones containing DocScrutinizer's tracking number | 12:28 |
| Termana | hiemanshu, no, 1337, leet, 101, lol :p | 12:28 |
| hiemanshu | lol | 12:28 |
| hiemanshu | Termana: and I actually hit F5 :P | 12:28 |
| Termana | TROLOLOLO :p | 12:29 |
| khertan | :) | 12:29 |
| robbiethe1st | Hey guys, do you know any way to get the IMEI number from the console? | 12:30 |
| khertan | robbiethe1st: on Fremantle ? | 12:30 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea | 12:30 |
| khertan | robbiethe1st: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.phone.SIM /com/nokia/phone/SIM/security Phone.Sim.Security.get_imei|awk -F "\"" '/g/ {print $2}' | 12:31 |
| robbiethe1st | Perfect, thanks | 12:31 |
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| khertan | robbiethe1st: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Get_IMEI | 12:31 |
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| [DarkGUNMAN] | is there a dbus message to pickup when an app has been rotated/forced rotated by cssu? | 12:33 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | this is for a qbw monitoring for dbus events | 12:34 |
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| hiemanshu | khertan: are you using com.nokia.meego too? | 12:35 |
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| khertan | hiemanshu: no ... i didn't use cross plateform language and framework to loose that with components | 12:37 |
| khertan | hiemanshu: the components are nice ... but lock you on harmattan only | 12:38 |
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| khertan | and force you to rewrite for each plateform where they aren't available | 12:38 |
| hiemanshu | khertan: com.nokia.meego and com.nokia.symbian are the same just differently themed, you can use those for symbian/meego, and com.nokia.meego might be ported to fremantle as well, so if that is done, we have a cross platform one | 12:39 |
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| khertan | hiemanshu: i didn't restrict my dev to harmattan and fremantle ... :) | 12:40 |
| hiemanshu | khertan: umm then? | 12:40 |
| khertan | and anyway, as i dev on my n900, until they aren't available, i can't use them | 12:40 |
| khertan | :) | 12:40 |
| khertan | hiemanshu: meego ce, debian desktop | 12:41 |
| khertan | hiemanshu: windows seven | 12:41 |
| hiemanshu | khertan: yes, it should be ported to meego ce, and desktop as well | 12:41 |
| hiemanshu | atleast thats what I heard | 12:41 |
| khertan | it should ... i didn't believe until i see it | 12:41 |
| hiemanshu | heh ok | 12:41 |
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| ludens | [DarkGUNMAN]: you mean you use MicroB with those add-ons? not firefox? | 12:54 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | yes, i use microb with those add-ons and it runs like a charm, especially thanks to fasterfox and ad ban | 12:55 |
| ludens | my friend said switching from MicroB to firefox was the best thing he ever did to save battery. judging from my load figures, that cant possibly be true | 12:55 |
| ludens | as soon as i try to switch to firefox, my load goes over 10 for a long time | 12:56 |
| ruskie | I find that hard to believe | 12:56 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | I can't stand firefox mobile | 12:56 |
| ruskie | that he actually got better battery performance | 12:56 |
| ludens | same here its driving me crazy | 12:56 |
| ludens | just wanted to check if it was just on my phone, thanks | 12:57 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | hang on I'll find the thread on tmo that clued me into this | 12:57 |
| ludens | switching back to microb then | 12:57 |
| ludens | into what? | 12:57 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72992&highlight=fasterfox | 12:59 |
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| [DarkGUNMAN] | morning hurrian | 13:00 |
| Hurrian | ohai DarkGUNMAN | 13:00 |
| ludens | [DarkGUNMAN]: thx | 13:01 |
| Hurrian | hmm, still dont know whether harmattan uses uxlaunch or some other nokia crap, so the chroot will have to wait | 13:01 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | your proposded change to hildon-desktop, is this an add-on or replacement for status-area and status-menu? | 13:01 |
| Hurrian | it's a replacement for the hildon-desktop metapackage | 13:02 |
| Hurrian | everything. | 13:02 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | no problem ludens. | 13:02 |
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| Hurrian | even matchbox will probably be scrapped | 13:02 |
| Hurrian | i actually feel like just forking gnome 3 code | 13:03 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | ah right. not something that could be ported (like cordia) to meego at a later date? | 13:03 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | if you got an enhanced hildon running as the meego uxtheme you're onto a winner! | 13:04 |
| Hurrian | darkgunman, it's a large diversion from hildon | 13:06 |
| Hurrian | it might not even share anything with hildon except for GTK | 13:06 |
| Hurrian | ...and I intent to use GTK3 and any, and all image engines available | 13:07 |
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| ShadowJK | MicroB has "javascript pausing" feature that halts js execution after X seconds after display goes off. If you disable that, I imagine batterylife goes down quite significantly | 13:09 |
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| [DarkGUNMAN] | okay. was curious about it :) i know its a long way off before anything will be ready, but I'm happy to do any extensive testing required. Been trying to simplify the installation of cordia, and test which meego apps work and don't work. | 13:11 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | so i'd be methodical about it. | 13:12 |
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| Hurrian | in other news, i got gnome3-desktop to run on the n900 | 13:15 |
| Hurrian | problems: mostly RAM related | 13:15 |
| Hurrian | other problems: had to rebuild mutter to use gles | 13:15 |
| Hurrian | hmm, should probably shoot a video of it | 13:15 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | would be nice to see. Might run better if compcache gets sorted out for power48 kernel | 13:16 |
| Hurrian | didn't use maemo, i had to use meego without handset UX | 13:17 |
| Hurrian | basically, launched gdm | 13:17 |
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| flux | hurrian, are you planning to actually use it?-) | 13:26 |
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| Hurrian | flux, no calling UI | 13:29 |
| Hurrian | so, a big nope | 13:30 |
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| Hurrian | well, if i actually learn how to write code, i might | 13:30 |
| Hurrian | but then, starting GNOME takes ~2 minutes | 13:30 |
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| Hurrian | which is unbearable | 13:30 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | never coded c++ so I'm trying to find a good place to start learning. any good tutorials out there? | 13:31 |
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| alterego | N8 loud speaker is pretty good. | 13:33 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | once i get proficient in c++ then i can learn qt | 13:33 |
| Hurrian | alterego, how does it match up to the N95's? | 13:33 |
| ruskie | Hurrian, planing on getting e17 illume working on it? | 13:33 |
| Hurrian | ruskie, doesn't e17 already work on easy debian? | 13:34 |
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| ruskie | Hurrian, native I meant ;) | 13:34 |
| Hurrian | personally, the only thing that kills E17 for me would be the task switching and the low contrast white theme | 13:34 |
| Hurrian | other than that, it's true that it's the original king of bling | 13:34 |
| ruskie | illume? | 13:34 |
| ruskie | that's designed for mobile devices? | 13:35 |
| Hurrian | yes | 13:35 |
| Hurrian | i used the mobile theme | 13:35 |
| ruskie | it's not just a theme | 13:35 |
| Hurrian | all themes are white though, and provide almost no contrast | 13:35 |
| Hurrian | ruskie, i know | 13:35 |
| Hurrian | desktop configs and all | 13:35 |
| ruskie | it's a setting... use it as desktop vs mobile | 13:35 |
| ruskie | hmm | 13:35 |
| Hurrian | E17 doesn't look like it's built for the desktop - window management is a mess, but it looks great on small devices | 13:36 |
| ruskie | hmm it is? | 13:36 |
| Hurrian | yeah, have you tried it on easy debian? | 13:36 |
| ruskie | it tends to do a better job at window managing than tilling wms | 13:36 |
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| Hurrian | runs way faster than LXDE | 13:37 |
| Hurrian | ...or it's just all the animations | 13:37 |
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| ruskie | I run it on my eeepc 701... since meego refuses to support non-sse3 devices | 13:37 |
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| ruskie | feels and looks just fine | 13:37 |
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| Hurrian | hmm, MeeGo should really offer i686 builds | 13:38 |
| Hurrian | then again, >>>intel and they probably want everyone to use Atoms | 13:38 |
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| Hurrian | hmm, it'll be interesting to see the state of the N900 community a year from now | 13:42 |
| Hurrian | we'll have cordia, nitdroid, meego CE, and probably Harmattan HE all available as alternative OSes | 13:43 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | i don't think the nitdroid lot afe going affect things too much, but it'll take a familiar interface like cordia to get people to move or try meego. If harmattan gets ported to ce then it would get more attention. | 13:47 |
| * lardman heads off to pick up a van to move more furniture | 13:48 | |
| lardman | have a nice weekend all | 13:48 |
| khertan | oh : http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=WinFlasher_3.11.5.exe :) | 13:48 |
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| [DarkGUNMAN] | ludens: if you are looking to save battery give opera mini 4, and a 2G connection a try. works for me for light browsing. | 13:53 |
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| vdv | does anybody know, is it possible to get battery icon back without deinstalling advanced power? | 13:57 |
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| [DarkGUNMAN] | /usr/share/applications/hildon-status-menu | 13:59 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | move advanced-power.desktop to /disabled | 14:00 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | move status-area-applet-battery.desktop from /disabled | 14:00 |
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| [DarkGUNMAN] | morning Pali | 14:01 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, got the N8 yet? | 14:02 |
| vdv | [DarkGUNMAN], will then advanced power function? | 14:02 |
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| [DarkGUNMAN] | oh sorry thought you wanted the original one back, my bad | 14:03 |
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| djszapi | lbt: was the harmattan target added to c-obs by now ? | 14:04 |
| vdv | [DarkGUNMAN], no, i'd like to use advanced power | 14:04 |
| lbt | djszapi: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=MeeGo%3A1.2%3AHarmattan | 14:05 |
| Pali | [DarkGUNMAN]: hello | 14:05 |
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| Hurrian | lbt, i'm guessing someone's running a massive alien script? | 14:06 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | Pali is it true you are trying to get compcache to work wth the next verson of kernel-power? | 14:06 |
| djszapi | lbt: all kind of brilliant, thanks :) | 14:06 |
| djszapi | lbt: I will be the first spammer uploading 5-10 packages right away =) | 14:06 |
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| Pali | [DarkGUNMAN]: No I'm not trying it. | 14:08 |
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| Hurrian | iirc it was tigerite working on all the experimental stuff | 14:11 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, harmattan has i2c-tools | 14:11 |
| Hurrian | and therefore, almost all experimental stuff ends up in kernel-bfs | 14:11 |
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| Pali | MohammadAG: can you look at modest merge requests for CSSU? | 14:13 |
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| [DarkGUNMAN] | MohammadAG: is there a dbus event to detect forced rotation which i could use in a qbw widget? | 14:26 |
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| alterego | N8 is quite nice, can't get video working out through hdmi though :/ | 14:28 |
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| MohammadAG | Pali, Sc0rpious said he was going to review it | 14:37 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, sure you haven't got a defective unit? | 14:37 |
| * jonwil wishes he could make some progress on things | 14:37 | |
| MohammadAG | also do all SW updates, *#0000# Options -> Check for updates | 14:38 |
| jonwil | but I just cant get things going :( | 14:38 |
| jonwil | all of my projects are stuck :( | 14:38 |
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| Pali | MohammadAG: ok | 14:39 |
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| Pali | Last month I published my rewritten harmattan version for fremantle of getbootstate. Maybe is interesting for somebody. Here is link: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73792 | 14:44 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: I'll do it when I have a decent wifi connection ;) | 14:46 |
| jonwil | Nice job | 14:47 |
| jonwil | re the getbootstate thing | 14:47 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, Symbian updates aren't like maemo's, they're 1) compressed, 2) only update certain parts | 14:47 |
| MohammadAG | so an update can be 12MBs :P | 14:47 |
| alterego | I've got freakin lauchpad? | 14:47 |
| alterego | wait | 14:47 |
| alterego | I've got freakin launchpad! | 14:47 |
| alterego | :D | 14:47 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: hit me with the order link | 14:48 |
| MohammadAG | ~n950order | 14:48 |
| infobot | n950order is, like, https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 and wait for "internal error" changing to something wonderful eventually :-) | 14:48 |
| alterego | w00t :) | 14:48 |
| MohammadAG | got an N950 there? | 14:48 |
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| MohammadAG | (which I doubt :P) | 14:49 |
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| RzR950 | MohammadAG: _o/ | 14:49 |
| alterego | nope, but lp is a start :) | 14:49 |
| MohammadAG | o/ RzR950 | 14:50 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, 24h and it'll be there, I didn't get an email for either | 14:50 |
| RzR950 | mine was carried by dhl | 14:50 |
| alterego | M'kay, thanks. | 14:51 |
| alterego | This is pretty insane, I'm charging 5 phones a tablet pc and my laptop .. | 14:52 |
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| MohammadAG | all Nokia shipments are via DHL | 14:53 |
| * khertan 's one still not sent ...no tracking number yet | 14:54 | |
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| khertan | MohammadAG: did there is a page to check status ? as email come most of the time later | 14:55 |
| RzR950 | the DDP one ? | 14:56 |
| MohammadAG | <infobot> n950order is, like, https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 and wait for "internal error" changing to something wonderful eventually :-) | 14:56 |
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| MohammadAG | if it says New order, not yet shipped | 14:56 |
| khertan | once you have ordered it s not anymore listed | 14:56 |
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| MohammadAG | khertan, there's an orders button | 14:56 |
| khertan | Unexpected error has occured. Please try again. | 14:56 |
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| khertan | ... :) | 14:57 |
| khertan | ah ... now it s works | 14:57 |
| khertan | ... | 14:57 |
| khertan | New Order | 14:57 |
| khertan | ;( | 14:57 |
| khertan | ok so no need to wait tomorrow for it | 14:57 |
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| MohammadAG | how do you know? | 14:58 |
| MohammadAG | it might ship in the evening | 14:58 |
| * jonwil has run out of N900 things he can work on | 14:58 | |
| khertan | because even shipped in the evening ... it ll not be at home tomorrow :) | 14:58 |
| jonwil | ideas would be nice :) | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: ? | 14:59 |
| khertan | jonwil: a qml app to check dhl package delivery status ? | 14:59 |
| khertan | jonwil: port of harmattan components ? | 14:59 |
| * SpeedEvil wants a replacement icd, which emits sane debug messages. | 14:59 | |
| jonwil | dont know QML or how to talk to DHL :P | 14:59 |
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| * SpeedEvil is irritated by having to reboot to get wifi back | 14:59 | |
| * khertan need to reflash his n900 | 15:00 | |
| Pali | I'd like to merge tvout widget ( from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68294 ) and tvout control panel together. I see that tvout control panel only change gconf key and tvout widget setting xv attributes. So I need know who/which application monitor gconf key /system/tvout. Can somebody help me? | 15:02 |
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| MohammadAG | grep for /system/tvout in /usr/bin I guess | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG | but why do you need to know? | 15:04 |
| jonwil | There is an open source clone of the tvout control panel btw | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG | oh and I'd suggest dumping my source, Qt applets are a no no in control panel, too slow | 15:04 |
| jonwil | in the cssu | 15:05 |
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| MohammadAG | jonwil, that's my source, don't use it, | 15:05 |
| MohammadAG | again, too slow | 15:05 |
| vdv | how can i list files which belongs to package? can i do that with dpkg? | 15:05 |
| ruskie | yup | 15:06 |
| * khertan have strange problem, alarm have no sound, frequently desktop shortcut didn't launch app, some app crash due to dbus crash ... | 15:06 | |
| Pali | Yes I know. I tried to rewrite CSSU Qt plugin to Gtk and merge control from tvout widget, but tvout widget use only xv attributes and Qt plugin use only gconf key /system/tvout. So I do not know what GTK control plugin should use... | 15:06 |
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| MohammadAG | vdv, dpkg -L package | 15:07 |
| jonwil | SpeedEvil, cloning the icd daemon would be nice but VERY hard :( | 15:10 |
| jonwil | which is why I havent done it :) | 15:10 |
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| jonwil | I need ideas that are actually possible :P | 15:10 |
| Pali | MohammadAG: only two files has 'tvout' string: /usr/bin/testserver and /sbin/mce | 15:10 |
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| vdv | MohammadAG, thanks | 15:11 |
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| jonwil | do note that /etc/ohm/plugins.d/gconf.ini also references /system/tvout | 15:12 |
| jonwil | Although I think thats for audio and not video | 15:12 |
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| jonwil | ohm is for audio AFAIK | 15:14 |
| Pali | I think that the best will be if new rewritten tvout plugin set xv properties and gconf keys too. And after reboot should daemon (or hildon-desktop) read saved gconf keys and restore xv attrs | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: yeah - I know. It's painful. | 15:15 |
| jonwil | Although the documentation package for icd2 is way cool | 15:15 |
| jonwil | and has info that Nokia probably didnt strictly intend to be in there | 15:16 |
| Pali | jonwil: /system/tvout is also in binary file /usr/share/policy/rules/rx51/policy.plc | 15:17 |
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| vdv | how can i make bash default shell? | 15:17 |
| jonwil | the reference to tvout in mce has nothing to do with the gconf key | 15:18 |
| alterego | Erm, I wouldn't do that. | 15:18 |
| jonwil | nor is the reference in testserver | 15:18 |
| ruskie | vdv, I wouldn't do that | 15:18 |
| RzR950 | vdv: chsh ? | 15:18 |
| Pali | jonwil: and in /usr/share/policy/etc/rx51/ohm/plugins.d/gconf.ini | 15:18 |
| ruskie | each time I tried with zsh it made with the infinite dots | 15:18 |
| ruskie | in the end I have some magic .profile that execs to zsh | 15:19 |
| ruskie | actually copied osso-xterm.desktop to osso-xterm-myshell.desktop and changed the name and Exec to a script that lanuches zsh | 15:21 |
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| Venemo_N900 | heya | 15:23 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer, how are you and your N950 getting along. | 15:23 |
| Venemo_N900 | ? | 15:23 |
| Hurrian | vdv, /etc/passwd | 15:23 |
| Hurrian | only edit lines for root and user | 15:23 |
| Hurrian | everything else -> may break init scripts | 15:24 |
| vdv | Hurrian, for user it works | 15:24 |
| vdv | but inspite for root here /bin/bash specified | 15:24 |
| vdv | i don't get bash when i do sudo gainroot | 15:24 |
| ruskie | Hurrian, for me even just for user it broke... | 15:24 |
| Hurrian | do you use sudo gainroot/ root command? | 15:24 |
| Hurrian | nano /sbin/gainroot | 15:24 |
| Hurrian | or something | 15:24 |
| ruskie | vdv, make a toor user | 15:24 |
| ruskie | just copy the root line | 15:24 |
| ruskie | and rename to toor | 15:24 |
| ruskie | then su to toor | 15:24 |
| djszapi | lbt: so is it now okay or what is the situation ? https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=openal-soft&project=home%3Adjszapi I see a kernel panic if I click on the finished link. Also, this link does not still contain any packages: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=MeeGo%3A1.2%3AHarmattan | 15:25 |
| ruskie | you can leave everything else the same just change the login name | 15:25 |
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| ruskie | /etc/passwd:toor:x:0:0:toor:/root:/bin/zsh | 15:26 |
| ruskie | /etc/shadow:toor:PASSHASH:14805:0:99999:7::: | 15:26 |
| ruskie | that's how I have it setup on all my systems really | 15:26 |
| ruskie | so I always have a fallback root login in case something breaks zsh | 15:26 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer, i see that you uploaded a bunch more pics | 15:26 |
| vdv | Hurrian, thanks a lot | 15:27 |
| vdv | it works now | 15:27 |
| vdv | ruskie, too complicate | 15:27 |
| ruskie | vdv, only if not used to it ;) | 15:28 |
| Pali | jonwil: relevant reference to /system/tvout is in /usr/share/policy/ which is in packages policy-settings-rx51 and policy-application-detector | 15:29 |
| ruskie | vdv, but consider this I had to reflash my n900 a few times before I figured out that the issues was /bin/bash in passwd | 15:29 |
| Pali | what these policy-* packages doing? | 15:30 |
| vdv | ruskie, :) | 15:31 |
| jonwil | well I note that some parts of the policy stuff seems to be binary/compiled Prolog code | 15:31 |
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| khertan | Grrrr again another nokia spam email ... and not the one with the dhl tracking number | 15:33 |
| ruskie | lol | 15:33 |
| Pali | policy-* packages are closed? | 15:33 |
| khertan | MohammadAG: definitively not for tommorow :) 3h30 in finland ... so ... :) | 15:34 |
| frals | gotta love getting reminded how to do your job by people who have no clue how to do it | 15:35 |
| frals | \o/ | 15:35 |
| khertan | if they know how to do it ... they will shut up | 15:35 |
| khertan | :) | 15:35 |
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| MohammadAG | khertan, so? :P | 15:39 |
| jonwil | fyi, http://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia contains the source code of the MeeGo versions of pretty much all this policy stuff | 15:40 |
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| Pali | I found this: https://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/policy-settings-basic/blobs/master/basic/policy/video_route.pl | 15:42 |
| Pali | so policy-settings monitor /system/tvout key | 15:42 |
| khertan | MohammadAG: so after 3pm it could not be delivered on saturday :) | 15:43 |
| Venemo_N900 | khertan, patience is a virtue :) | 15:43 |
| MohammadAG | khertan, I don't want it on satuday | 15:43 |
| * khertan is fighting against windows flasher which didn't want to flash his n900 | 15:43 | |
| MohammadAG | I want it shipped | 15:43 |
| khertan | Venemo_N900: :) | 15:43 |
| khertan | MohammadAG: yep also | 15:43 |
| khertan | MohammadAG: i immagine that it take time, because like preprod n900 they are flashing manually before delivery :) | 15:44 |
| Venemo_N900 | they could just tell us to flash it | 15:44 |
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| khertan | hum ... pretty strange ... uboot crashed | 15:46 |
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| MohammadAG | anyone kind enough to make a QWebView that asks us to login to the DDP site, saves cookies, then hammers the order page to get order status? | 15:46 |
| khertan | MohammadAG: should be easy to do | 15:46 |
| khertan | :) | 15:47 |
| gri | anyone received a tracking number yet? | 15:47 |
| khertan | nope | 15:47 |
| gri | sent mail? | 15:47 |
| khertan | nope too | 15:47 |
| MohammadAG | khertan, yes, but I don't have the time :p | 15:48 |
| khertan | same here | 15:48 |
| khertan | need to flash my n900 | 15:48 |
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| khertan | does flasher works on windows seven 64bits ? | 15:50 |
| Hurrian | khertan, easier to use ubuntu live cd | 15:51 |
| Hurrian | disabling driver signing is a PITA | 15:51 |
| toggles | Can someone tell me if hald is on the n900? | 15:51 |
| khertan | ... yep but no ubuntu cd under hand | 15:51 |
| Hurrian | @toggles : hald-addon-bme | 15:52 |
| Hurrian | khertan, follow the steps then | 15:52 |
| Hurrian | they work, just plug in directly to motherboard USB | 15:52 |
| Hurrian | if you want, leave driver signing off | 15:52 |
| toggles | Hurrian: thanks | 15:52 |
| Hurrian | and patch windows to not show the "test mode" string | 15:52 |
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| Pali | jonwil: in maemo-multimedia is missing application/daemon app-detect | 15:55 |
| jonwil | not sure where that comes from | 15:55 |
| jonwil | or maybe its done differently in meego | 15:55 |
| * gri received the dhl tracking number | 15:56 | |
| * jonwil cant understand why people are so excited over a damn phone... | 15:57 | |
| divan | Does anyone use Handbrake video encoding tool with N900 preset1 listed in wiki: http://wiki.maemo.org/Video_encoding#Handbrake ? | 15:57 |
| Venemo_N900 | jonwil, new toy! | 15:57 |
| Venemo_N900 | jonwil, why are kids excited about a new toy? | 15:57 |
| divan | I've added second preset which gaves maximum quality for n900 playback even on 50-inch plasma display. | 15:58 |
| Hurrian | jonwil, because it's shiny, and "devs-only" | 15:58 |
| jonwil | :) | 15:58 |
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| MohammadAG | gri, just now? | 15:58 |
| gri | MohammadAG: got the automatic sent mail 3h ago, the tracking number 5 mins ago | 15:59 |
| MohammadAG | gri, automatic sent email? | 15:59 |
| khertan | huM ... flashing interrupted | 16:00 |
| khertan | oups | 16:00 |
| Hurrian | divan, DVD quality playback is acceptable on 1080p upscale | 16:00 |
| gri | "your order has been sent" from no.reply@n... | 16:00 |
| khertan | nothing | 16:00 |
| * Venemo_N900 envies gri | 16:01 | |
| MohammadAG | oh | 16:01 |
| MohammadAG | bummer, didn't get that :/ | 16:01 |
| divan | Hurrian, I was disappointed with quality of videos like 720x304 or so. It's ok on 22-inch, but looks terrible on 50-inch. Now, with 854x480 videos and smooth playback it looks great from 2-3 meters. | 16:01 |
| MohammadAG | frals, got work tomorrow? :P | 16:01 |
| Hurrian | and now, 480i looks like absolute sh*te on 1080p upscale | 16:02 |
| khertan | flashing again ... | 16:02 |
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| Hurrian | khertan, flashing is where the hooks on the USB come in handy | 16:03 |
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| khertan | Hurrian: i ve finnaly use a xp machine | 16:03 |
| khertan | but flash was interrupted the first time | 16:03 |
| khertan | without reason | 16:03 |
| Hurrian | dont touch the USB cable ;) | 16:04 |
| khertan | without touching the cable | 16:04 |
| khertan | ok second flash works ... but n900 didn't start | 16:04 |
| khertan | roh | 16:04 |
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| vdv | where are email accounts on n900 stored? seems not under /home/user, because reflashing wiped it out | 16:06 |
| ludens | [DarkGUNMAN]: thanks for the advice! havent tried opera on maemo, that will be interesting! | 16:07 |
| Jaffa | vdv: gconf | 16:07 |
| Venemo_N900 | vdv, reflashing wipes out /home afaik | 16:07 |
| vdv | Jaffa, gconf? | 16:07 |
| mgedmin | /home is on the root fs, so reflashing wipes it -- it's only /home/user/MyDocs that's preserved (unless you reflash eMMC) | 16:08 |
| vdv | mgedmin, /home/user is untouched here | 16:08 |
| Jaffa | vdv: /var/lib/gconf | 16:08 |
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| khertan | MohammadAG: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/alertbox/ | 16:08 |
| khertan | :) | 16:08 |
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| vdv | maybe /home, but not /home/user | 16:09 |
| gri | I also think I remember my settings/contacts/messages survived a reflash | 16:09 |
| jonwil | when I reflashed recently, my contacts/messages/settings survived for the most part | 16:10 |
| jonwil | that was a reflash of a "combined fiasco" image | 16:10 |
| jonwil | and not a EMMC flash | 16:10 |
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| vdv | Jaffa, thanks | 16:11 |
| frals | MohammadAG: finns dont work saturday/sunday normally no ;) | 16:12 |
| MohammadAG | frals, when does a workday end then? :P | 16:13 |
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| frals | 17 i guess | 16:13 |
| gri | 40 hour week? | 16:13 |
| frals | depends on the company | 16:14 |
| MohammadAG | frals, Nokia :p | 16:14 |
| jaska | i work 10-18.. approx 7h 15-30m days | 16:14 |
| * khertan discover sparkleshare ... looks amazing ... until i see it s mono based | 16:14 | |
| khertan | :( | 16:14 |
| frals | MohammadAG: depends when the person got in in the morning | 16:14 |
| frals | MohammadAG: ;P | 16:14 |
| frals | MohammadAG: and how much important stuff there is to do | 16:15 |
| jaska | but, mv jaska .jp | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: got tracking? | 16:15 |
| khertan | nope | 16:15 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, no, that's why I'm asking frals when they stop shipping :P | 16:16 |
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| X-Fade | MohammadAG: I ordered yesterday and no confirmation yet. So :) | 16:17 |
| Venemo_N900 | is frals part of the team that ships N950? | 16:17 |
| frals | Venemo_N900: no | 16:17 |
| Venemo_N900 | X-Fade, I thought you already had one | 16:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | took ~4 h for me from order till shipping | 16:17 |
| MohammadAG | I hate you DocScrutinizer | 16:17 |
| X-Fade | Venemo_N900: Not a developer device. | 16:17 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 16:17 |
| frals | whos actually doing the shipping stuff? | 16:17 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer, everyone here already envies you :) | 16:17 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo_N900, frals only ships things via MMS | 16:17 |
| Venemo_N900 | X-Fade, what device was it then? | 16:17 |
| gri | frals: my mail came from polla esguerra | 16:18 |
| X-Fade | Venemo_N900: N950, but proto. | 16:18 |
| Venemo_N900 | X-Fade, are the dev devices not protos too? | 16:18 |
| MohammadAG | no | 16:18 |
| jaska | matter messaging system | 16:18 |
| MohammadAG | they have double the RAM and 1/4 the storage | 16:18 |
| X-Fade | Venemo_N900: No, they are CE certified devices. | 16:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | hah. | 16:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | so why did the Nokia agreement say that I must accept that they are prototypes? | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | @all: I'm not happy about the fact it went so smooth for me, when I see this isn't the usual case. I would've preferred to wait until mid of next week | 16:19 |
| X-Fade | Venemo_N900: they are :) | 16:19 |
| X-Fade | Venemo_N900: Until things are released, they are. | 16:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | X-Fade, ahh. | 16:20 |
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| X-Fade | Venemo_N900: Software isn't final, so :) | 16:20 |
| Venemo_N900 | X-Fade, I hope they will also get the final sw along with N9 | 16:20 |
| * jonwil is bored :( | 16:20 | |
| X-Fade | Venemo_N900: Yep. | 16:20 |
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| Venemo_N900 | X-Fade, in fact, how different are N9 and N950 hw? do they use the same board? | 16:21 |
| X-Fade | Venemo_N900: They are the same and completely different at the same time :) | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: proto means the butt-ugly plastic one? | 16:21 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I was just kidding, you know that :P | 16:22 |
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| frals | Venemo_N900: all differences that matters are on swipe.nokia.com / whatever the devkit url was ;) | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it was aluminum, just white/silver afaik | 16:23 |
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| Venemo_N900 | frals, yep, but it didn't say whether they both use the same OMAP3xxx | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not, I'm really not happy as this creates envy and tension in the group | 16:23 |
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| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer, hey, I was just kidding when I said that. | 16:24 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer, in fact, I'm happy for you :) | 16:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I guess they picked me to punish me for my aegis-bashing ;-) Now I have to report for all the ones that are still waiting | 16:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw, just in case you missed it: devel-su works | 16:26 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, what about devel-sh or develsh? | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | devel-su is the new sudo gainroot | 16:27 |
| divan | DocScrutinizer, i've ordered day before yesterday, and order still in 'New Order' status. | 16:27 |
| gri | maybe they sort orders by country, alphabet, whatever ... | 16:28 |
| Venemo_N900 | patience is a virtue :) | 16:28 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: amazing it works, guess someone did something right at last :) | 16:28 |
| * frals has been doing ssh root@localhost for a looooong time ;( | 16:28 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | I guess they roughly operate a LIFO of Quim's orders | 16:28 |
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| Venemo_N900 | mhm | 16:28 |
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| fiferboy | Anyone get a shipping notice today? | 16:30 |
| rm_work | fiferboy: just logging in to look now :) | 16:30 |
| gri | fiferboy: trackin number 1h ago | 16:31 |
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| rm_work | nope | 16:31 |
| rm_work | nothing yet | 16:31 |
| rm_work | page still says "New Order" | 16:31 |
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| rm_work | so i guess mine may not get out before the weekend? :( | 16:31 |
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| fiferboy | gri: That's good new | 16:33 |
| fiferboy | Still "New Order" here too | 16:33 |
| gri | if they need 10 mins per device, it takes a whole week for one person to send them :) | 16:33 |
| Pali | jonwil: I stopped app-detect (policy-application-detector) but setting original tvout control panel still working... | 16:33 |
| rm_work | rofl | 16:33 |
| khertan | DocScrutinizer: i didn't follow the aegis discussion is there some documentation about it ? i know it s a protection system but know nothing about it | 16:34 |
| jonwil | btw, whatever you do, do NOT try to stop/start/restart mce, the system will go apeshit if you do :) | 16:34 |
| jonwil | Speaking from personal experience here btw | 16:34 |
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| jonwil | The only way to restart mce (e.g. if you installed new mce plugin or whatever) is to reboot phone | 16:35 |
| khertan | gri: 10 is if it didn't request to be flashed before :) | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | khertan: | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~aegis | 16:35 |
| infobot | i guess aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism | 16:35 |
| khertan | DocScrutinizer thx | 16:35 |
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| macmaN | haha | 16:37 |
| macmaN | devel-su ftw! | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: had no such problems | 16:37 |
| jonwil | well I just know things went wierd when I was messing with it | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | led pattern editor app is restarting mce all the time | 16:37 |
| jonwil | that might just be because I was messing with things that caused the problem | 16:37 |
| RzR950 | infobot: if you control what is thread or not , then it's good | 16:37 |
| infobot | RzR950: I think you lost me on that one | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | I do >> stop mce; sleep 1; start mce << and that has no real bad side effects | 16:38 |
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| jonwil | i.e. my broken libvibrator.so | 16:38 |
| jonwil | I think all my wierdness came from either my libvibrator.so | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 16:38 |
| jonwil | or my attempts to get mce to spit out all its log info | 16:38 |
| jonwil | somehow trying to get it to accept --verbose | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | is on my list of things to tackle yet | 16:39 |
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| * alterego orders N950 | 16:42 | |
| alterego | woo??? | 16:42 |
| alterego | !!! | 16:42 |
| alterego | even | 16:42 |
| fiferboy | alterego: They let you in #n950club? | 16:42 |
| gri | they still work? | 16:42 |
| alterego | :) | 16:43 |
| alterego | they have now :D | 16:43 |
| RzR950 | infobot: a threat not thread :) vlc http://rzr.online.fr//./docs/contribs/files/TrustedComputing_LAFKON.m3u | 16:43 |
| X-Fade | RzR950: You realise that you are talking to a *bot* right? | 16:43 |
| RzR950 | this makes me believe that i am also a bot :) | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | khertan: my fav quote: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-06-30.log.html#t2011-06-30T17:19:40 | 16:45 |
| infobot | RzR950: welcome, colleague! | 16:46 |
| RzR950 | BTW, People who deny the existence of robots may be robots themselves | 16:47 |
| infobot | HEAR HEAR | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: shhhh! | 16:48 |
| infobot | well, shhhh is SHUT UP! | 16:48 |
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| khertan | DocScrutinizer :) | 16:50 |
| gri | wtf? I received "a N950 is waiting for you" again, can I have two? :D | 16:51 |
| fiferboy | gri: Apparently it will process another order for you | 16:52 |
| khertan | gri: lol | 16:52 |
| MohammadAG | gri, you're not the only one | 16:52 |
| MohammadAG | but I didn't get any email :/ | 16:53 |
| gri | damn, my gf would also want an n950 (but in pink..) | 16:53 |
| * mgedmin got an email saying that I couldn't be found in the system or something... | 16:53 | |
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| khertan | DocScrutinizer : After installing the package, do NOT modify the installed files if they request a token. Security FW will discover an unexpected change in the file and lock the device (ops! reflash). Imported files and other resources can be modified. | 16:55 |
| khertan | DocScrutinizer: http://dz015.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-or-python-security-fw-and-harmattan/ | 16:55 |
| khertan | hopefully i read it before ... else i ll probably need to reflash :) | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | khertan: nice, isn't it? :-S | 16:56 |
| MohammadAG | wait... | 16:57 |
| MohammadAG | there should be a "Your order has been received" ? | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: for me there was | 16:57 |
| Pali | jonwil: Now I know who monitor change xv attr. It is ohmd daemon and propably this plugin: https://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/ohm-plugins-misc/trees/master/plugins/videoep-fremantle | 16:57 |
| MohammadAG | :S | 16:58 |
| Pali | when I stopeed ohmd tvout control plugin not working... | 16:58 |
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| frals | uh | 16:58 |
| frals | "lock the device (ops! reflash" | 16:58 |
| frals | never ever seen that happen | 16:58 |
| gri | uhm, I can really order a second one on FN ... that can't be right | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I gather *Nokia* picked me for a testcase for DDP | 16:59 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I didn't get any email | 16:59 |
| MohammadAG | which makes me wonder if they even got my order | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | then obviously they decided to "streamline" the process according to what they found with my shipment. So now you get multiple orders while I couldn't even see me one order's status | 17:00 |
| MohammadAG | OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE | 17:00 |
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| MohammadAG | my email is set to @ovi.com | 17:00 |
| jonwil | looks like ohm-plugins-misc is closed source in Fremantle | 17:00 |
| alterego | Hahah | 17:00 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: idjit :P | 17:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHAHA @ovi.com - had a WTF!? experience with that yahoo crap last night | 17:01 |
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| Pali | but gitorious meego link has -fremantle suffix. It could be fremantle version? | 17:02 |
| MohammadAG | 14990 unread emails | 17:02 |
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| MohammadAG | I use it for facebook notiications | 17:02 |
| jonwil | yeah it could be related to Fremantle | 17:02 |
| MohammadAG | it's like /dev/null to me | 17:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | can't get meegoHarm maps running, asking for a "Nokia account" which turns out to manifest in a mailaddr@ovi.com | 17:02 |
| macmaN | DocScrutinizer: hmm? i also cant get into nokia accounts | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | and mymailaddr@ovi.com makes yahoo go mad in a endless loop asking me to "confirm password" | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | on maps the probably related effect is "service momentarilly unavailable" | 17:04 |
| MohammadAG | meh, I have both emails lost in there | 17:04 |
| macmaN | DocScrutinizer: nokia account just gives me "service currently unavailable" | 17:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maps comes up with a "SSO Signin" screen, then switches to "Nokia account" asking for username or mailaddr and PW | 17:05 |
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| macmaN | yep | 17:06 |
| macmaN | exactly | 17:06 |
| macmaN | thats where i get stuck | 17:06 |
| macmaN | http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=234 | 17:06 |
| povbot | Bug 234: (some) applets should be resizeable | 17:06 |
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| khertan | DocScrutinizer: i think i ll got some surprize with aegis when an python module will be updated independently by an other program | 17:08 |
| khertan | :) | 17:08 |
| frals | khertan: if the module belongs to your package dpkg will have a problem before that i guess? ;) | 17:08 |
| jonwil | bah, still bored :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( | 17:09 |
| khertan | frals: i mean a apps depending on python-http2 for example | 17:10 |
| khertan | i use it in my apps | 17:10 |
| frals | khertan: as long as the module is updated by the correct package with the aegis file it shouldnt matter | 17:10 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, SSO is Nokia account | 17:10 |
| khertan | but an other app update it to a new version as a dependancy, what will happen | 17:10 |
| MohammadAG | the N8 does the same | 17:10 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia account is Oiv account | 17:10 |
| frals | khertan: the new version has updated aegis file and the new hash is there now | 17:10 |
| khertan | frals: oh ... ok thx for the info | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: for mail, yes | 17:11 |
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| frals | khertan: this is based on my understanding, i havent tried it for python modules but it should same as for any other package/library where it works that way | 17:12 |
| frals | (more or less, it actually works either way) ;) | 17:12 |
| khertan | frals: what i fear is that python isn't statically linked :) | 17:12 |
| * khertan is unhappy .... the hogfather present will not be for tomorrow ... not yet sent. | 17:13 | |
| DocScrutinizer | It's incredibly annoying as maps is the only "test-app" for GPS *and* compass | 17:13 |
| jonwil | why would you need to sign on to something for maps? | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and they should make damn sure a devel-dev proto should come with a preinstalled devel account working | 17:14 |
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| Pali | Sc0rpious: MohammadAG wrote, that you are going to review modest cssu patches | 17:16 |
| Pali | here are links: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/modest/merge_requests/10 https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/tinymail/merge_requests/2 | 17:17 |
| ieatlint | i believe an update for the n950 is imminent | 17:17 |
| khertan | :) | 17:18 |
| crashanddie | This sentence: "Mandatory arguments to long options are mandatory for short options too." almost made by brain melt. | 17:18 |
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| khertan | ieatlint: because flasher is now present on tablet-dev ? | 17:19 |
| ieatlint | nah, i'm just omnicient | 17:20 |
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| khertan | ieatlint: hum could u give me the delivery date of my loaned n950 please ? and when apocalypse will happen ? | 17:21 |
| ieatlint | yes | 17:22 |
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| ieatlint | the delivery date is next thursday between 2 and 6 pm | 17:22 |
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| ieatlint | and the apocalypse is october 21st this year | 17:22 |
| khertan | :) | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | somebody got a working dummy "Nokia account" for me? to test the N950 maps app? | 17:23 |
| ieatlint | and 10.2011.26-4 is the new version | 17:23 |
| X-Fade | I'll take bets on it, that it is not :) | 17:24 |
| khertan | ieatlint: 21/10/11 is a prediction of Harold Camping, the guy which predict the apocalypse will occur at 6pm at each timezone ? | 17:25 |
| ieatlint | yeah, prove him wrong | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | khertan: a sudden rise in radiant power of the sun *could* create an apocalypse in sync with local timezones | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | more like 6AM though | 17:27 |
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| macmaN | DocScrutinizer: did you try registering a new acct on the phone? that didnt work for me either | 17:28 |
| khertan | DocScrutinizer ... hum it s an idea | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | and only for the night hemisphere of the globe, the day hemisphere obviously was in sync with the increase of radiation, not in sync with sunrise | 17:28 |
| khertan | ieatlint: i ve the evidence, but it s under nda for 4 months | 17:29 |
| khertan | ieatlint: i ll show it to you after | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | macmaN: I did a thousand times | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | then regisered new account ad web ovi.com | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | then used an old account | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ALL failed | 17:30 |
| macmaN | ok | 17:30 |
| khertan | DocScrutinizer or some pulsar emission | 17:30 |
| khertan | :) | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | hard gammaray | 17:30 |
| aslani | Have you noticed this thread yet? http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3747 | 17:30 |
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| aslani | probably you have, but still | 17:31 |
| macmaN | well yeah thats me | 17:31 |
| ieatlint | i've had my old ovi account work on it | 17:31 |
| macmaN | my thread i.e. | 17:31 |
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| macmaN | i dont know who the other participant there is, besides qgil of course | 17:32 |
| aslani | yeah, no idea who that aslani guy is | 17:32 |
| aslani | :) | 17:33 |
| macmaN | ahhhahahha | 17:34 |
| macmaN | my bad! :> | 17:34 |
| GAN900 | Still no shipping info. | 17:36 |
| khertan | same here | 17:38 |
| khertan | StatusNew Order | 17:38 |
| hiemanshu | same here :( | 17:39 |
| fiferboy | GAN900: Me neither | 17:39 |
| GAN900 | Guess it must be a 3-day-weekend | 17:39 |
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| fiferboy | Three new people have received theirs (according to the wiki) | 17:40 |
| ieatlint | i got a shipping notice today | 17:40 |
| hiemanshu | ieatlint: and what time did you order yours yesterday? | 17:41 |
| ieatlint | got an email from nokia telling me they shipped it at 4am GMT-7, and then one from dhl at 5:40am | 17:41 |
| ieatlint | i ordered mine july 6 at 5:30am GMT-7 | 17:42 |
| ieatlint | so 48h to ship | 17:42 |
| ieatlint | shipping from helsinki | 17:42 |
| hiemanshu | ieatlint: damn you lucky arse :P | 17:43 |
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| ieatlint | i had to bribe a couple nokia peoples | 17:45 |
| hiemanshu | really? :P | 17:46 |
| ieatlint | yeah, just offer them some vodka and rotting fish | 17:46 |
| khertan | pffff | 17:46 |
| hiemanshu | hah | 17:46 |
| hiemanshu | I am going to shoot myself anytime now | 17:46 |
| khertan | 7 juillet 2011 11:26 so will be for monday : | 17:47 |
| khertan | :) | 17:47 |
| ieatlint | when did you order yours? | 17:47 |
| hiemanshu | yesterday | 17:47 |
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| hiemanshu | 7.7.2011 18:02 .fi time | 17:48 |
| hiemanshu | roughly 24 hours ago | 17:48 |
| ieatlint | well, seeing as it's nearly 6pm in helsinki | 17:48 |
| ieatlint | you're probably screwed | 17:48 |
| khertan | 7.7.2011 12:26 fi time :) | 17:48 |
| hiemanshu | yeah | 17:48 |
| khertan | not probably ... surely :) | 17:49 |
| ieatlint | ouch, 6h makes the difference | 17:49 |
| hiemanshu | ieatlint: but I am still assuming its possible, they shipped it, but haven't updated it on the sight? | 17:49 |
| hiemanshu | site* | 17:49 |
| ieatlint | nah, i got an email | 17:49 |
| khertan | ieatlint: i didn't get mine too | 17:49 |
| ieatlint | a full 90min+ before dhl sent me an email telling me they got a shipment notice | 17:49 |
| hiemanshu | ieatlint: what time was yours done exactly? | 17:49 |
| ieatlint | and then it took a couple more hours for the tracking number to be valid in their system | 17:50 |
| hiemanshu | ieatlint: the order | 17:50 |
| hiemanshu | its on the DDP -> orders page | 17:50 |
| ieatlint | uh, i ordered at 1530 GMT+2 july 6/wednesday | 17:50 |
| ieatlint | nokia tells me they processed it today at 1400 GMT+2 | 17:50 |
| khertan | yeah ... so it s dead for us hiemanshu :) 48 hours ... :) | 17:51 |
| khertan | hiemanshu: will be packaged monday :) | 17:51 |
| hiemanshu | khertan: tomorrow is a day off, so monday only :( :( :( | 17:51 |
| ieatlint | dhl also just says "shipment info received" | 17:52 |
| hiemanshu | yeah | 17:52 |
| khertan | so i just hope it'll be for next friday ... because i could be not at home ... | 17:52 |
| hiemanshu | well, I am going to be home, but I want it before the 15th, so I can show it off at the Qt AFK meetup | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | so is there any common sense already whether Harmattan playground for discussion etc pp is $meego or $maemo domain now? | 17:54 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: #maemo-harmattan? | 17:55 |
| khertan | for complaining it s $meego, for whining it $maemo, and for the rest ... don't know | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | AIUI parts of $meego stictly say Harmattan!=meego | 17:55 |
| hiemanshu | or just #harmattan | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: I'm not talking about IRC #chan | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | but about e.g. adding random crap to a wiki | 17:56 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: well from quim posting in f.m.o and everything else there, its m.o | 17:56 |
| Sc0rpius | he's talking about Twitter hash tagsª | 17:56 |
| hiemanshu | meego* | 17:56 |
| Sc0rpius | :P | 17:56 |
| hiemanshu | khertan: I rewrote most of my UI in QML today, going to finish up the rest of the UI now :D | 17:57 |
| hiemanshu | khertan: its not that bad :P | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | wiki.meego.com doesn't seem the exactly matching location for Harmattan docs to me | 17:57 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: well everything seems to be under meego really | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, ok | 17:58 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: the devices page, the place quim asked up to make our User pages | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | fair enough | 17:58 |
| khertan | hiemanshu: http://twitpic.com/5mvljv <<< test of a KhtEditor ui :) | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | we probably should establish a meme to tag each page related to Harmattan with a BOLD "[harmattan]" notice, even in URL | 17:59 |
| hiemanshu | khertan: I have seen it, you still using python for the backend right? | 18:00 |
| khertan | right | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you have a chance to tell apart harm pages from CE pages | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMFG what a mess | 18:01 |
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| hiemanshu | khertan: ah, should look at your code sometime :P | 18:02 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: welcome to the real world :D | 18:02 |
| khertan | available in qml branch in http://gitorious.org/khteditor | 18:02 |
| hiemanshu | khertan: yes, I read that somewhere, I will look at it later :) | 18:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: ^^^ (harm vs CE namespace on web [here wiki/forum/et-al]) any thoughts? | 18:03 |
| Venemo_N900 | hey hiemanshu, what's up? | 18:03 |
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| hiemanshu | Venemo_N900: some good news and bad news today :( | 18:03 |
| Venemo_N900 | hiemanshu, tell me | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: o/ | 18:03 |
| hiemanshu | Venemo_N900: bad news == no shipping :(, good news == India will host a FUDCon finally :) | 18:04 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: \o | 18:04 |
| javispedro | got shipped notice an hour ago | 18:04 |
| Venemo_N900 | hiemanshu :) | 18:04 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: damn you | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 18:04 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: I hate you | 18:04 |
| Venemo_N900 | javispedro, congrats | 18:04 |
| javispedro | so "my batch" is probably being shipped as we speak | 18:04 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: you desrve to die! | 18:04 |
| Venemo_N900 | hiemanshu, don't hate on him, you'll get one as well! | 18:05 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: they are still working? | 18:05 |
| hiemanshu | Venemo_N900: I hate him till I get mine :P | 18:05 |
| Venemo_N900 | hiemanshu :P | 18:05 |
| javispedro | hiemanshu: according to dhl, they got "info" but are waiting fotr the package, so I say yes | 18:05 |
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| javispedro | (being optimistic) | 18:05 |
| rm_work | lol | 18:05 |
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| hiemanshu | javispedro: ah, well I didn't even get DHL info or anything so D: | 18:06 |
| rm_work | it's still funny to me, everyone freaking out and being so anxious :P we're privileged to be included in this program, they're working hard, and I'll get a device when I get one :) | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: <DocScrutinizer> so is there any common sense already whether Harmattan playground for discussion etc pp is $meego or $maemo domain now? <DocScrutinizer> we probably should establish a meme to tag each page related to Harmattan with a BOLD "[harmattan]" notice, even in URL -- so you have a chance to tell apart harm pages from CE pages | 18:06 |
| Venemo_N900 | hiemanshu, I hate being hated, so please don't hate me if I happen to receive mine earlier than you :P | 18:06 |
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| hiemanshu | Venemo_N900: naah, then you'll just be dead to me :P | 18:06 |
| hiemanshu | Venemo_N900: did yours ship btw? | 18:06 |
| Venemo_N900 | hiemanshu, nope, I guesstimate next week | 18:07 |
| Venemo_N900 | but no rush | 18:07 |
| hiemanshu | ah, yeah, same here | 18:07 |
| javispedro | docscrutinizer: we can and should share qml stuff, but unshare the rest. | 18:07 |
| Venemo_N900 | I still have some crapwork to do before I can start making my harmattan promises | 18:07 |
| hiemanshu | Venemo_N900: I am just finishing up the UI here :) | 18:07 |
| Venemo_N900 | :P | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | good, who's going to set up the according "best practice" wikipage on wiki.meego.org? | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: seems a job for "council" or whatever it's called on meego side of the world | 18:08 |
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| javispedro | ha! | 18:09 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: nah, JFDI | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: indiscriminate mixing of info bits related to harm with those related to CE may easily render the whole wiki useless | 18:09 |
| alterego | http://twitpic.com/5n1843 | 18:10 |
| javispedro | sadly, I do not understand why meego.com is used for harmattan stuff. at all. | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | we noticed a similar though way milder effect on mixing N900-M5 bits with diablo, on wiki.maemo.org | 18:10 |
| alterego | javispedro: to boost meego | 18:10 |
| javispedro | cause if I ask a qml or qt question, the best place would be qt .nokia | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: for now it has potential to *kill* meego | 18:11 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego, nice pic | 18:11 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: neah, it's just the Ux :P | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahaha | 18:11 |
| alterego | Venemo_N900: taken with an N8 and edited on an N8 | 18:11 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego :P | 18:11 |
| alterego | :) | 18:12 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer, it is marketed as meego because of stupid marketing horseshit | 18:12 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: LOL | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: I am not interested in rationale *why* - I wonder how to *cope with it* | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: wiki.meego.org/how_install_apps --- WTF are they talking about CE or about harm here?!?! | 18:14 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: in theory everything on the application layer should be fluffy same as regular meego 1.2 | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: stop dreaming | 18:14 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: you mean com | 18:14 |
| hiemanshu | not .org | 18:14 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: I don't. I'm teasing | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 18:14 |
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| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: and no such page exists :P | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: MEH! | 18:15 |
| hiemanshu | LOL | 18:15 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: create a new namespace? Harmattan:HowToInstallApps makes sense | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: you're XXX - should I wait until it exists to start whining? | 18:15 |
| javispedro | in theory, in theory.... | 18:15 |
| * javispedro dances | 18:15 | |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: a new namespace would make a lot of sense really | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: please read backscroll, creating a "new namespace" is exactly what I suggested | 18:16 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: ugh, sorry, missed taht part | 18:17 |
| hiemanshu | that* | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: <DocScrutinizer> we probably should establish a meme to tag each page related to Harmattan with a BOLD "[harmattan]" notice, even in URL -- so you have a chance to tell apart harm pages from CE pages | 18:17 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: right | 18:17 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer, hmm | 18:17 |
| * javispedro suggests posting in f.m.c about this before doing anything | 18:18 | |
| DocScrutinizer | <javispedro> docscrutinizer: we can and should share qml stuff, but unshare the rest. | 18:18 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer, all harmattan-related wikipage should go under wiki.meego.com/harmattan/... | 18:18 |
| javispedro | in case the powers that be have another idea(s).. | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | so again: who's picking up on that? In my book that's a genuine duty for council and/or the counterpart in meego domain | 18:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ | 18:20 |
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| javispedro | along with the dhl tracking id I got an invitation for a wp7 developer webcast | 18:21 |
| javispedro | (in spanish, so I doubt you're going to get it) | 18:22 |
| javispedro | ah.. elop... | 18:22 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: (re harmattan namespace) - whereas somethings are going to deal with both (e.g. http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS) | 18:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: yes, and it's damn hard for the occasional reader of e.g wiki.meego.com to clearly find out if the info of the particular page applies to CE, harm, QML(==both), or whatever | 18:27 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Yeah, so some templates which include at the top a "applies to ..., ..., ..."? | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: we'd need somebody with real insight about the commons and the things that differ between meegoCE and meegoHarmattan to write up that page "what's different?" and make clear about a best practice to tag your new wikipages accordingly | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: yup, would be a start | 18:29 |
| cpscotti | DocScrutinizer, Jaffa ; great ideas! | 18:30 |
| Nils^ | n900 here. I mounted my n900 in linux and want to put music on it. Which directory should I copy the files to? | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | a bit like bugzilla: select the "subsystems" | 18:30 |
| cpscotti | Nils^, I have a folder called "MyMusic" | 18:30 |
| hiemanshu | Nils^: create a Music dir, and put it there, should work | 18:30 |
| cpscotti | Nils^, name doesn't matter.. | 18:30 |
| Nils^ | I don't have it | 18:30 |
| Nils^ | i created "music" but it was not found by the media player | 18:30 |
| Nils^ | ok, again | 18:31 |
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| PBeck | hey | 18:31 |
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| cpscotti | well.. is your music folder under MyDocs right? | 18:32 |
| Nils^ | it is in the same folder where .sounds, .videos and .documents is | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: I'd do that but I clearly have too little insight into the delicate differences and esp into what's supposed to be identiacal between CE and harm | 18:32 |
| PBeck | i have got a new sim card, because it was defect, now i want to copy all contacts vom the adress book on the new sim - as backup for the important contacts. I know that not all information will be saved on the sim card, but name and number is enough. Any ideas how i can do it, without a sync with a pc or a online network? | 18:32 |
| Nils^ | (and yes, I umounted and unplugged the usb cable before trying to find the music via media player) | 18:32 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: cpscotti: One for GeneralAntilles' "Clearing the path" thread? | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | linky? | 18:33 |
| Nils^ | what the... is there a latency after umounting and unplugging? I just tried again aruond 60 seconds after unplugging. now its there | 18:33 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Front page of http://www.mwkn.net/ :-) | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 18:33 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: (I went there cos I knew we'd covered it :-)) | 18:34 |
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| cpscotti | Jaffa, you mean this: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3678 | 18:35 |
| cpscotti | ? | 18:35 |
| Jaffa | cpscotti: Yes | 18:35 |
| Jaffa | cpscotti: http://www.mwkn.net/2011/27/front.html#front-1 | 18:35 |
| cpscotti | Nils^, well.. normally it works cool.. | 18:35 |
| khertan | Sniff : StatusNew Order ... | 18:36 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 18:36 |
| MohammadAG | khertan, stop checking it won't ship till Monday :p | 18:36 |
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| khertan | MohammadAG: i didn't check manually it s done automatically by a firefox plugin :) | 18:37 |
| * Jaffa 's changed to "Sent to customer" at 1900 Helsinki time. | 18:37 | |
| MohammadAG | if Harmattan is frozen at MeeGo 1.2, doesn't that break compatibility with 1.3? | 18:37 |
| khertan | Jaffa: your was special | 18:37 |
| Jaffa | khertan: So I'm told | 18:37 |
| khertan | :) | 18:37 |
| cpscotti | Jaffa, cool! | 18:37 |
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| khertan | so ... time to go back home | 18:38 |
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| khertan | have good week end all | 18:38 |
| Jaffa | khertan: That plugin is cool | 18:38 |
| Jaffa | khertan: Au revoir | 18:38 |
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| khertan | Jaffa: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/alertbox/ | 18:39 |
| khertan | bye | 18:39 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, oh really? cool | 18:39 |
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| javispedro | hah | 18:40 |
| javispedro | my current status is that | 18:40 |
| javispedro | the order has disappeared from ForumNokia | 18:40 |
| javispedro | but I got sent a DHL tracking id | 18:40 |
| javispedro | where it says they have info only, no device in DHL's hands yet. | 18:40 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, what time was it sent? | 18:41 |
| ieatlint | javispedro: same here... dhl updated to say they have it as of ~45min ago | 18:41 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, 14:30 GMT + 2 | 18:41 |
| javispedro | well, "sent" | 18:41 |
| javispedro | that's when I got the DHL tracking id mail. | 18:42 |
| MohammadAG | so that's 16:30 HEL time? | 18:42 |
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| javispedro | according to this database, HEL is GMT+3 | 18:43 |
| ieatlint | i got my tracking id initially at 15:40 GMT+2 | 18:43 |
| javispedro | so, 15:30 HEL time. | 18:43 |
| ieatlint | ergh, fucking daylight savings time | 18:43 |
| ieatlint | my time is correct relative to daylight savings -- 15:40 helsinki time | 18:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, when did you place your order? | 18:44 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Ah no - you're right. Mine changed to "Sent to customer" mid-afternoon, but then it was sat in Nokia's goods' outwards department until DHL picked it up - at 1900 Helsinki time | 18:44 |
| javispedro | and your DHL page says something other than "shipment information received", ieatlint? | 18:44 |
| javispedro | Jaffa, ah, good clarification :) | 18:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | 7.7.2011 12:04 here | 18:45 |
| ieatlint | "Shipment picked up" | 18:45 |
| ieatlint | "HELSINKI - FINLAND 14:40" | 18:45 |
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| javispedro | GeneralAntilles, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-07-07.log.html#t2011-07-07T12:20:35 | 18:46 |
| javispedro | 2011-07-07T12:20 | 18:46 |
| javispedro | whatever that means ;) | 18:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bleh | 18:46 |
| javispedro | what's the timezone of irc logs? ;) | 18:47 |
| MohammadAG | ISO time | 18:48 |
| javispedro | aparently not. | 18:48 |
| javispedro | unless HEL time is now also ISO time ;) | 18:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wonder what order they process these things in. | 18:48 |
| javispedro | quick math: logs stop at 18:44, current GMT+2 time is 17:48, so logs are GMT+3 | 18:48 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: No, it's not. | 18:49 |
| Jaffa | Yeah, what javispedro said. | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | N950s? food processors of course | 18:49 |
| Jaffa | Presumably it's mgedmin's TZ | 18:49 |
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| Jaffa | PS. "ISO time" means nothing. "UTC" does :-) | 18:49 |
| Termana | You receive an email with the DHL tracking number don't you? | 18:49 |
| javispedro | Termana, you receive two. | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | Yes, when it's sent | 18:49 |
| ieatlint | MohammadAG: n950? damn, i thought this as a windows phone | 18:50 |
| kerio | ISO time is a way to represent a time | 18:50 |
| Termana | ieatlint, lol | 18:50 |
| kerio | YYYY-MM-ddThh:mm:ss.ffffff+hh:mm | 18:50 |
| MohammadAG | facebook uses ISO time | 18:51 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: yours didn't ship too? :( | 18:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, hopefully by Tuesday, then. | 18:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lazy Nokians. | 18:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | You figure their shipping department could handle more than this. | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | I'm leaving on Monday | 18:52 |
| Termana | GeneralAntilles, SHHH. You don't say anything bad about them until you get the device | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | or Sunday night | 18:52 |
| ieatlint | bastards, don't they realize that a weekend of waiting will make anxious geeks cry? | 18:52 |
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| hiemanshu | GeneralAntilles: most shipping departments work till around midnight | 18:53 |
| hiemanshu | but nokia is just M-E-H! | 18:53 |
| javispedro | lol | 18:53 |
| ieatlint | there should be an official MEH department | 18:53 |
| javispedro | you are blaming Nokia employees for not working til midnigth ? ;) | 18:53 |
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| Termana | ~slap hiemanshu | 18:53 |
| * infobot slaps hiemanshu, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! | 18:53 | |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: yes | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, they could do shifts | 18:54 |
| * MohammadAG hides | 18:54 | |
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| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: most do 8 hours shifts | 18:54 |
| ieatlint | can be Meego Engineering Headquarters | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG | actually I'll be honest | 18:54 |
| ieatlint | "MeeGo development now transfered to MEH" | 18:54 |
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| MohammadAG | how hard is it to make 250 packages and stamp 250 labels on them | 18:54 |
| Termana | MohammadAG, I've set my laser from stun to kill | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG | then ask DHL to do the shipping | 18:54 |
| * MohammadAG takes out his shotgun | 18:55 | |
| ieatlint | MohammadAG: my guess is they have a lot more than 250 phones to send out | 18:55 |
| MohammadAG | legacy guns ftw | 18:55 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: right | 18:55 |
| ieatlint | i hear nokia ships more than just that | 18:55 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: There's no "ISO time"! There's ISO 8601 which defines time *formats*, but it's not a time zone :-p | 18:55 |
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| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: most people to 8 - 4, 4-midnight shifts | 18:55 |
| MohammadAG | hiemanshu, priority to those who paid, aka us | 18:55 |
| MohammadAG | I paid a good 0.00 for the damn thing | 18:55 |
| Jaffa | Top tip, by the way, if you get a replacement N8 for a broken N900; and they offer to replace it with an E7 you don't get the full E7 sales package | 18:55 |
| Jaffa | ...which reduces resale value | 18:55 |
| * javispedro envisions hackers with pitchforks in front of MeegoEngineeringHeadquarters demanding their free N950s. | 18:56 | |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: I haz shotgun :D | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, lol they considered that too? | 18:56 |
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| alterego | Hurp, looking for something cool on the N8 to show case the compass. Guess it'll have to be Columbus .. | 18:56 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: LOL | 18:56 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: you have something to play with too :( | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, you have a tester here | 18:56 |
| javispedro | alterego, if you can't get it to run without symbian crashing ;) | 18:56 |
| rafael2k | hi there people, anyone could sucessfully use the DVB or ISDB-Tb nokia DTV tuner in the N900? | 18:57 |
| javispedro | *can | 18:57 |
| nid0 | jaffa, it's normal for unrepairable broken phones to be replaced by refurbs rather than new ones, isnt it? | 18:57 |
| holmesII | hi, question:). Can I get the same results for both ways? 1. I use shell command "lshal" , 2. use C code to call HAL api? | 18:57 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: is there a way in which it doesn't crash? | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, I suggest static library linking btw | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | with librx | 18:57 |
| alterego | hiemanshu: yeah, had a delivery this morning anyway ;) | 18:57 |
| Jaffa | nid0: It's not a refurb E7, it's just not got a box. | 18:57 |
| rafael2k | It has bluetooth connectivity to send the DTV payload to the phone | 18:57 |
| nid0 | meaning it's a refurb | 18:57 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: damn you | 18:57 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: did you promise elop to make WP7 apps that he is giving you free phones? | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, ever had an N8? | 18:58 |
| Jaffa | nid0: <shrug/> | 18:58 |
| Smegheadz | hey guys, happy friday!! | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | I wanted a comparison between the N8 and E7 | 18:58 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Yeah. Nice hardware. | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | brief one, a one liner :P | 18:58 |
| hiemanshu | Smegheadz: sad friday, meh :( | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | Smegheadz, happy? | 18:58 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: E7 - keyboard good, same res on bigger screen => frustrating. N8 feels more solid having no moving parts. | 18:58 |
| javispedro | hah | 18:59 |
| MohammadAG | and is it lighter? | 18:59 |
| * dm8tbr likes the bigger screen though | 18:59 | |
| javispedro | already getting used to keyboard-less devices, eh? | 18:59 |
| nid0 | e7's the first decent keyboard on a slidey landscape nokia's done imo | 18:59 |
| alterego | hiemanshu: no :P | 18:59 |
| holmesII | any idea? | 18:59 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: worse part, there is no way even to buy dev devices :( | 18:59 |
| alterego | The N8 is shockingly light .. | 18:59 |
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| MohammadAG | yeah | 19:00 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, see how fast the camera is :p | 19:00 |
| Smegheadz | why sad friday? well its sorta happy for me, nearly finished work but its raining | 19:00 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: its a new way of making phones, its called 'LESSER PARTS & LESSER FEATURES' :P | 19:00 |
| MohammadAG | without focusing | 19:00 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: yes .. N9 is supposedly quicker :o | 19:00 |
| MohammadAG | you know, point and shoot | 19:00 |
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| javispedro | Smegheadz, ah, lucky, raining. The sun here is melting this laptop's chassis ;9 | 19:00 |
| hiemanshu | Smegheadz: our N950s didn't ship, so sad sad friday | 19:00 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I wonder if the chat Nokia made is fake | 19:00 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: its been raining everyday for the last 3 dyas here | 19:00 |
| nid0 | MohammadAG, e7 is edof | 19:01 |
| MohammadAG | the N8 is faster than the iPhone | 19:01 |
| MohammadAG | nid0, N8 isn't | 19:01 |
| alterego | I'm stunned actually, the pictures are grabbed almost instantly, it must 1/8th of the time of the N900 | 19:01 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 19:01 |
| nid0 | o, misread then, thought you were asking bout e7 time | 19:01 |
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| Smegheadz | i'll sendin some rain if u send some sun | 19:01 |
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| hiemanshu | ok, still at new order, not shipping today :( | 19:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lightning is triangulating my position. | 19:02 |
| Smegheadz | you itching i take it to play with the n950. wouldnt mind a look at one | 19:02 |
| hiemanshu | Smegheadz: yesw | 19:02 |
| hiemanshu | yes* | 19:02 |
| nid0 | maybe someone at nokia's just fucking with all you guys for laughs and holding the status back, and your devices will all show up monday anyway | 19:02 |
| MohammadAG | hiemanshu, you know, you could run a good push notification service | 19:02 |
| javispedro | 1900 HEL time already and DHL still says no news ;) | 19:02 |
| alterego | hiemanshu: it's like 7pm in Finland, no chance of it shipping until Monday imo. | 19:03 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, you live in Spain | 19:03 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: yes | 19:03 |
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| Smegheadz | anyone ever use xchat on the n900? lil awkward but pretty good. | 19:03 |
| MohammadAG | HEL is right next to you | 19:03 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: heh yeah :P | 19:03 |
| rafael2k | I use xchat in the N900 | 19:03 |
| MohammadAG | IL isn't close to HEL | 19:03 |
| javispedro | specially if they use the same secret maglev line amazon used to cross france in half an hour! | 19:03 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: IN is further away | 19:03 |
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| MohammadAG | what's IN? | 19:03 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: India | 19:03 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, you're in the same timezone, stop complaining ;) | 19:03 |
| alterego | I wonder /me checks out nokia panorama on the N8 | 19:03 |
| alterego | downloading... | 19:04 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, same as N900 | 19:04 |
| rafael2k | people, from where should I start in order to make the bluetooth DTV nokia receiver work in the maemo? | 19:04 |
| MohammadAG | with fake hildon! | 19:04 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: doesn't use compass? | 19:04 |
| alterego | lame .. | 19:04 |
| MohammadAG | no | 19:04 |
| alterego | i hope better quality pics though ;) | 19:04 |
| MohammadAG | duh :P | 19:04 |
| javispedro | rafael2k, from testing it and making a blog post with the problems you found ;) | 19:04 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I'd request a developer certificate and mod the camera | 19:05 |
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| rafael2k | javispedro: nokia says it's not supported. how should I test it? | 19:05 |
| MohammadAG | there are some continuous focus hacks for the camera | 19:05 |
| javispedro | rafael2k, do you have one? | 19:05 |
| rafael2k | javispedro: I'll buy one. | 19:05 |
| rafael2k | javispedro: I do have an N85 that is a supported one. | 19:05 |
| javispedro | it will _not_ work out of the box. | 19:05 |
| javispedro | that is for sure. | 19:05 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: you dawg I heard you like fast shipping, so we aren't sending yours till next month, love, nokia :P | 19:06 |
| rafael2k | true | 19:06 |
| hiemanshu | s/you/yo/ | 19:06 |
| infobot | hiemanshu meant: MohammadAG: yo dawg I heard you like fast shipping, so we aren't sending yours till next month, love, nokia :P | 19:06 |
| javispedro | rafael2k, I have no idea how it works; if you buy one and post details, you might interest someone in getting it to work, but that's not for taken -- it might never work. | 19:07 |
| javispedro | rafael2k, also, search and post on talk.maemo.org | 19:07 |
| Smegheadz | their usually nice and responsive with sending bills i bet | 19:07 |
| rafael2k | I'll buy it anyone to see how it works. I get back w/ this topic when I get it here. | 19:08 |
| rafael2k | s/anyone/anyway | 19:08 |
| javispedro | rafael2k, If it's expensive, ensure you have a backup plan: a way to return it or someone to sell it to, in case it never works ;) | 19:09 |
| rafael2k | btw, the receiver I'm talking about is this one: http://www.nokia.com.br/produtos/acessorios/todos-os-acessorios/escritorio-e-casa/receptor-de-tv-digital/receptor-de-tv-movel-nokia-su-33wb | 19:09 |
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| rafael2k | javispedro: it costs R$99, ~ U$70 | 19:11 |
| Jaffa | rafael2k: Sounds like what you need to do is buy loads of them for us and hope it works | 19:11 |
| rafael2k | not so expensive... | 19:11 |
| javispedro | your choice | 19:11 |
| Jaffa | Is it DVB-H or DVB-T? | 19:11 |
| rafael2k | DVB and ISDB-T | 19:11 |
| Jaffa | rafael2k: DVB-*H* or DVB-*T*? | 19:11 |
| rafael2k | here in Brazil, only ISDB-T | 19:11 |
| rafael2k | Jaffa: probably DVB-H | 19:12 |
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| javispedro | that makes it virtually useless at least here... | 19:12 |
| rafael2k | well, here in Brazil the One-Seg ISDB-Tb is going well... | 19:13 |
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| rafael2k | In Sao Paulo there are more then 20 broadcasters already in digital | 19:13 |
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| * sp3000 is confused | 19:14 | |
| rafael2k | at least to watch the F-1 races is a good bet for me! ; ) | 19:14 |
| sp3000 | isn't jabber supposed to let you use the same nick/acct from multiple locations with that other field being unique or such | 19:14 |
| javispedro | the resource | 19:14 |
| sp3000 | right | 19:15 |
| sp3000 | but this conference/room/channel thing gives me a 409 conflict | 19:15 |
| sp3000 | now I can change the nick for that channel | 19:15 |
| sp3000 | but it's kinda stupid that I'm on there with four nicks now | 19:15 |
| dm8tbr | xmpp conferencing is a special case IIRC | 19:15 |
| sp3000 | I'm fine with special, I just wasn't expecting special in the derogatory sense | 19:16 |
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| javispedro | Jaffa was right, DHL says "processed" at 1900 | 19:19 |
| javispedro | 1905 to be exact | 19:19 |
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| javispedro | dammit, dhl offices here close at 20:30 ;) | 19:21 |
| javispedro | I do not think they are making it even with the secret maglev line ;) | 19:21 |
| javispedro | ooh. there's one that opens on saturdays... | 19:22 |
| MohammadAG | ~n950order | 19:22 |
| infobot | [n950order] https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 and wait for "internal error" changing to something wonderful eventually :-) | 19:22 |
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| * dm8tbr didn't get further emails after turning something wonderful back into an internal error, so next week somewhen I guess... | 19:24 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | infobot: no, n950order is https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 and wait for expected "unexpected error" changing to something wonderful eventually :-) | 19:37 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer | 19:37 |
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| javispedro | hah, found the DHL tracking id for my ddp n900 | 19:38 |
| javispedro | it is exactly the same email template | 19:38 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: hah | 19:38 |
| javispedro | instead of this newfangled "you have an n950 waiting for you", the subject was "N900 available in DDP" | 19:40 |
| * ieatlint did not get a free/early n900 :( | 19:41 | |
| rm_work | the new one is much more tantalizing isn't it? :P | 19:41 |
| rm_work | it feels like marketing verbage | 19:41 |
| rm_work | more than purely technical information | 19:41 |
| javispedro | the n900 ddp was not free. | 19:41 |
| rm_work | yeah i ended up not doing the N900 DDP :/ it was only margically cheaper than you could get an N900 for, except with no warranty | 19:42 |
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| rm_work | and by then we knew they broke | 19:43 |
| javispedro | (that ended up being partially untrue, as I got my ddp n900 repaired) | 19:43 |
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| rm_work | lol | 19:43 |
| ieatlint | hah, well, i didn't get the option | 19:44 |
| ieatlint | with the n950, you don't even own it though | 19:44 |
| rm_work | yeah | 19:44 |
| * slonopotamus still has n900 box with nice "NOT FOR SALE" sticker :) | 19:44 | |
| ieatlint | bah, if you bought it, you can sell it | 19:45 |
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| javispedro | I wish I could see the n900 ddp dhl tracking info to compare, but no dice =) | 19:45 |
| slonopotamus | ieatlint: well, i didn't obviously | 19:45 |
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| ieatlint | hah, fair enough | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: ping | 19:45 |
| ieatlint | yay unreleased devices | 19:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | achipa: (or any of the early adopters) how to open back cover after "unboxing" properly (aka achipa unboxing "I consider unscrewing and 'losing the screws' a normal part of unboxing process") | 19:48 |
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| cpscotti | ~n950club | 19:51 |
| vdv | is there any alternative to maemo's modest? | 19:52 |
| nid0 | theres claws | 19:53 |
| nid0 | or theres a different phone | 19:53 |
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| vdv | unfortunately claws is not so integrated as modest | 19:57 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: when I saw it there were 4 screws holding the back cover | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: that's obvious | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: I can even tell you they are TX4 | 20:00 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: after you accidentially lose them in your sofa you proceed to remove the back cover which IIRC is a tight fit | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | tha's the point | 20:00 |
| Macer | hm | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't know where to pry in my fingernail or what else to do to make it come off | 20:01 |
| Macer | on the n810 now | 20:01 |
| Macer | maemo4 ftw | 20:01 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: I'm not 100% sure but keyboard side in the middle could have been mentioned | 20:02 |
| Macer | damn thing took a bad dive a while back | 20:02 |
| dm8tbr | or was that the pressure point to slide out the display? | 20:02 |
| Macer | the sliding tracks are a little messed up | 20:02 |
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| Macer | and i cant find replacement tracks | 20:02 |
| javispedro | this communities dominate guy is truly a symbian fan | 20:03 |
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| javispedro | now he has some plots and so to indicate that s60 is stealing market share from the iphone | 20:03 |
| Macer | hahaha | 20:03 |
| Macer | s60?? | 20:03 |
| Macer | doubtful | 20:03 |
| sid__ | hi, does anyone know, how i can access n900 nand with meego 1.2? /dev/mtd* does not exist | 20:04 |
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| dm8tbr | sid__: are you on the n900CE? | 20:04 |
| sid__ | yes | 20:04 |
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| Macer | ce? | 20:05 |
| sp3000 | carbonated escargots | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | something along "*attach*" | 20:07 |
| sid__ | Macer: since 1.2 it is renamed to "Community Edition" --> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | ubiattach or dunno what | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73751 | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | sid__: ^^^ | 20:08 |
| sid__ | i do not have a mtd device | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73751 | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | sid__: ^^^ | 20:09 |
| RST38h | Oh my, teachers in a rural Ugandan school were unknowingly using a live bomb as a bell. They would bang the bomb with stones to call the school's 700 students to class. | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ubiattach /dev/ubi_ctrl -m 5 | 20:10 |
| hiemanshu | a button icon cannot be bigger than 40x40, WTF :( | 20:10 |
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| Macer | oh | 20:11 |
| Macer | sid__: does it work? :) | 20:11 |
| sid__ | no, ubiattach: error!: cannot attach mtd5 | 20:12 |
| sid__ | error 19 (No such device) | 20:12 |
| Macer | i meant meego overall. but i get the point | 20:12 |
| Macer | why didn't you just do the sd install? | 20:12 |
| sid__ | i have to create it first or load a special module. | 20:13 |
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| sid__ | Macer: my usb is broken and maemo does not boot. i need a rescuesystem | 20:13 |
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| Macer | ouch | 20:13 |
| Macer | broke off like mine? :) | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | sid__: reboot | 20:14 |
| Macer | http://tech.rancorous.net/?p=19 | 20:14 |
| Macer | i will let you know if i get it fixed heh | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | sid__: this is a case where even *nix needs a reboot to make kernel aware of ubi | 20:15 |
| sid__ | macer: yes, its like yours. | 20:16 |
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| Macer | well i am working on repairing mine. i will let you know if it works ;) | 20:18 |
| Macer | that usb port problem is pretty bad considering at the time it was a near $500 phone | 20:18 |
| Macer | i would have expected better quality :) | 20:18 |
| sid__ | i asked one of our electrician to search a "solder company" :-) | 20:19 |
| sid__ | DocScrutinizer: after reboot dmesg shows only cmdline with mtdoops.mtddev=2 | 20:20 |
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| sid__ | in kernelconfig there are several mtd modules statically compiled | 20:21 |
| sid__ | can you please send me "ls -lh /dev/mtd*". i think i just have to create them via mknod | 20:21 |
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| javispedro | sid_, search for mtd in /proc/devices, and there is your major | 20:25 |
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| javispedro | minors are 0 for mtd0, 2 for mtd1, 4 for mtd2.. | 20:25 |
| gri | Docscrutinizer: Do you have a screenshot oft your dhl tracking? Do they still fly at the evening? | 20:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: ok, got it. for some misconception I din't think the plastic ends would come off too | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually now I realize the whole thing is plastic | 20:28 |
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| sid__ | javispedro: +2 or ^2 ? | 20:29 |
| javispedro | 6 for mtd3 | 20:29 |
| sid__ | thx | 20:29 |
| javispedro | 1 is mtd0ro, 3 is mtd1ro... never seen them before =) | 20:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the good news: N950 USB receptale obviously is a thru-hole type :-) | 20:33 |
| ruskie | http://www.reghardware.com/2011/07/08/dev_iphone_4_cable_melts/ | 20:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | impossible to shear off | 20:34 |
| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: so, no more falling out connectors? | 20:34 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: does N950 have fmtx? | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | HTF shall I know? :-) | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | I heard it has the fubction but a antenna pin NC | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | I heard it has the function but a antenna pin NC | 20:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | HAH, they followed my old idea to use the speaker reflex "dead" volume to place the antennae there | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, "sesame close!" | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, surgery time? | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | over | 20:38 |
| hiemanshu | GeneralAntilles: device shipped? | 20:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nurp | 20:38 |
| hiemanshu | GeneralAntilles: I think they ran out of N950s | 20:38 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: oh, sorry, should have mentioned it's a one piece :) | 20:38 |
| hiemanshu | GeneralAntilles: the cake is a lie :P | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | generic advice: pry off the speaker end carefully with your nails, then slide around to USB both directions. Lift off speaker side first | 20:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | assemble in reverse order: first "hook" cover to USB and AV, then "hinge" the cover down around that point | 20:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually there's not much interesting inside there, except the battery itself | 20:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the "9" on lockscreen magically re-appeared | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I gather this device does not *have* a bupbat, so no defect when RTC gets lost on 60s of main bat removal | 20:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | still a pity it doesn't try to sync to GSM time rather than rising the fistboot wizard asking for date/time setup | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | firstboot* | 20:46 |
| javispedro | so what, half of the carriers have the wrong date | 20:47 |
| javispedro | and the other half do not have a date at all =) | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 20:47 |
| javispedro | the pity is the rtc battery | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | mine is fine | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that's a rhyme | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: null-issue for N9(50) | 20:48 |
| javispedro | hum? | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHA "19:4 " | 20:49 |
| javispedro | no battery? | 20:49 |
| javispedro | I guess it makes sense consider no user-removable one... | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, changed to 19:49 | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: exactly | 20:50 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: the 9 icon fixed? :P | 20:50 |
| hiemanshu | s/icon/font/ | 20:50 |
| infobot | hiemanshu meant: DocScrutinizer: the 9 font fixed? :P | 20:50 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, crash the device and try and see if holding power button works as hardpoweroff ;) | 20:50 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: http://twitter.com/#!/gregjroberts/status/89388791827144706 | 20:50 |
| javispedro | hiemanshu, DocScrutinizer hates twitter you insensitive clod! | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: how would I crah the kenel? | 20:51 |
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| hiemanshu | crah the kenel? LOL | 20:51 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, no idea, have you tried pluggin in a usb gadget already ? ;) | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | crash the kernel, damn. Typing is hard when you hold the N950 | 20:51 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: Yeah, being senstive is over-rated :P | 20:51 |
| hiemanshu | lol | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | not yet, javispedro | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | "d | 20:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | "show cell info [x| ]" WOW | 20:53 |
| hiemanshu | hmm, where are the N950 flashers? | 20:53 |
| * javispedro ponders flying to HEL to find my n950 | 20:53 | |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: how far is HEL? | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, of course the O2 APN setting is incorrect default, as always | 20:56 |
| javispedro | just 3400km apart. | 20:56 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: I could walk there :P | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | wow, call forwarding is semi-sane implemetation now | 20:58 |
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| javispedro | QMLHater =) | 20:58 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: 6796.5 Kilometers from here, I could probably drive up there | 20:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw contacts has per-contact ringtone now :-D | 20:59 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: got the new image? | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 20:59 |
| hiemanshu | any idea where the old one is? | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 21:00 |
| * hiemanshu is too dumb to find anything :( | 21:00 | |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: yes ? | 21:00 |
| Scifig | Somehow I like the bigger contact image in N900 (when call is in progress). | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: thanks, solved | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: back cover is a bit hard to get off | 21:00 |
| achipa | just the first time | 21:00 |
| achipa | a bit like... er... the N900 :) | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: basically I tought I could get off the middle part and the ends stay on device | 21:01 |
| achipa | just remember that the whole back is one piece... | 21:01 |
| achipa | :) | 21:01 |
| achipa | right | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 21:01 |
| achipa | that one tricked me too when I got mine | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | the flasher LED pair is a true monster | 21:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | looks like it's going to shoot lazors | 21:02 |
| * achipa considering doing an unofficial "how to change batteries on the N950 and N9" video tutorial | 21:02 | |
| * javispedro does not usually link to the elop tmo thread, but this post made me laugh: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1046684&postcount=130 | 21:03 | |
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| ieatlint | achipa: do you have an n9? | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: you *may* do this, I'm a bit reluctant, regarding this NDA abomination | 21:03 |
| achipa | ieatlint: I have everything :) | 21:03 |
| achipa | (in the loosest possible sense of the word) | 21:04 |
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| ieatlint | achipa: can i convince you to run this: "grep Clocking /var/log/syslog" and tell me what the line says? | 21:04 |
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| achipa | empty | 21:04 |
| achipa | :) | 21:04 |
| ieatlint | interesting.. | 21:04 |
| achipa | didn't run, but I know it, syslog is off by default | 21:04 |
| achipa | (understandably) | 21:04 |
| achipa | :) | 21:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 21:05 |
| ieatlint | heh | 21:05 |
| ieatlint | that also differs from what i've otherwise heard | 21:05 |
| ieatlint | mind doing "dmesg | grep Clocking" then? | 21:05 |
| achipa | I would guess it's the same... but let me check | 21:05 |
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| ieatlint | thanks :) | 21:05 |
| achipa | heh, Operation not permitted... capability-funk | 21:07 |
| ieatlint | bah, ok | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | even under root :-) | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | aegis \o/ | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsckit! | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~aegis | 21:07 |
| infobot | hmm... aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism | 21:07 |
| ieatlint | i'm surprised that syslog isn't on actually | 21:08 |
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| achipa | oh, wait, it is | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm surprised we're supposed to develop anything in this crippled restrictive environment | 21:09 |
| * achipa looking at wrong device | 21:09 | |
| * ieatlint suspected so ;) | 21:09 | |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: i've run things via qtcreator... had no issues | 21:09 |
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| achipa | applications are *mostly * unaffected, it's when you go lower, into middleware and below when it gets painful | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, when a "dmesg" under root account gets a "operation not permitted" - I start to feel seriously pissed | 21:10 |
| ieatlint | heh, yeah.. | 21:10 |
| BCMM | guh, how? | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: completely | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 21:11 |
| ieatlint | the swipe UI i'm liking though | 21:13 |
| ieatlint | it's nice | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I can't wait to learn about "Operation not permitted" for `` echo foo >/sys/bar '' and similar fsckups | 21:13 |
| hiemanshu | ieatlint: got yours already? | 21:13 |
| achipa | ieatlint: 38.4/390/600 (crystal/core/MPU) | 21:13 |
| achipa | Big Muzzy. I like Klokks. | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 21:14 |
| ieatlint | achipa: thanks | 21:14 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: actually, you CAN get the permissions for all that stuff, but docs are a bit scarce | 21:14 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: I cant wait till I get my device and do a echo ' ' > *aegis* | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | OOOHNOES, and "Op not permitted" for i2ctools - that'll gonna be FUN | 21:14 |
| achipa | hiemanshu: and then reflash :) | 21:15 |
| hiemanshu | achipa: well I wanna see what happens :P | 21:15 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: so is dmesg symlinked to bb, or did they implement their own somehow? | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: so where to get this info then? | 21:15 |
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| achipa | DocScrutinizer: working on it, hopefully we can include significantly more docs in the next SDK iteration | 21:17 |
| ruskie | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Open-Hardware-License-OHL-11/ | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: I'd usually answer those questions immediately, but I haven't managed yet to find the time to integrate the 950 into my WLAN network properly, and open a remote shell like I usually do on my other 5 devices | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: thanks | 21:17 |
| ruskie | so basically it's crippled? | 21:17 |
| ieatlint | well dmesg as i understand does a call to the kernel, my guess is they're just intercepting all calls to ioctl | 21:17 |
| hiemanshu | ruskie: always has been :P | 21:18 |
| achipa | hiemanshu: but the best klokk on the N950 is the 192MHz one for the graphics core... | 21:18 |
| achipa | ieatlint: ^^ | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: aiui aegis can intercept whatever they like | 21:18 |
| ruskie | let us know if you can replace the kernel | 21:19 |
| hiemanshu | achipa: wait, I thought it was around 202 something? | 21:19 |
| hiemanshu | ruskie: you can, and then reflash :P | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: according to | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~aegis | 21:19 |
| infobot | well, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can replace the kernel, but then you can't access 90% of your stuff anymore | 21:20 |
| achipa | hiemanshu: 192 afaik, but also a bit different memory throughput, so effectively over 2x the N900 perf in most cases | 21:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, this critter is snappy, no doubt | 21:21 |
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| hiemanshu | achipa: well from what I read, the default 530(3630) clock is around 202 something | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | except for orientation transitions during unsuspend/unlock :-) | 21:22 |
| hiemanshu | achipa: well on mobile devices for the GPU a 10 mhz difference is well about a 4-5% difference :P | 21:22 |
| ieatlint | i like that i did a software update, and the less command disappeared afterward | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | hold the locked device - with shell wndow in front - in portrait mode and then open the kbd... YAY | 21:23 |
| achipa | hiemanshu: well, http://markmail.org/message/hpkc377xdc3xvq2e... I only met this 192mhz number in relation to the 3630 | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | >1s rotation madness | 21:24 |
| achipa | it does have this bit of 'well, make up your mind about how you want to be oriented' moment occasionally | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | occasionally? :-) | 21:24 |
| achipa | :) | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | this case I described is pretty reproducable, and easy to set up | 21:25 |
| ieatlint | if you just have the on-screen keyboard open and rotate, it gets a bit crazy too | 21:25 |
| sid__ | i think i know what is going wrong. http://pastebin.com/VrWaF1S6 nand vendor is not recognized | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | just lift the screen "upper" end a few mm, sufficent to "slide out" kbd | 21:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | achipa: I noticed the USB is pretty rock solid on N950 :-) | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | the receptacle, mechanically | 21:28 |
| sid__ | am i right or is it a only a warning | 21:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | OK, the indicator LED is COMPLETELY useless. Flashing bright like a charcoal even on missed calls | 21:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I.E. mce for N950 has quite some bugs it seems | 21:31 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it has a FIXME on it :P | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | I see | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | where? in gitorious? | 21:33 |
| * DocScrutinizer idly fires up the maintenace webpage of his router... | 21:34 | |
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| MohammadAG | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/mce/blobs/master/mce.ini#line530 | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | m'hm "hostname: RM-680" - niiice | 21:36 |
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| rm_work | crap | 21:38 |
| rm_work | i am gonna get SO many beeps now <_< | 21:38 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: that LED is vestigial at best... kind of follows the N810-N900 direction :( | 21:38 |
| vi___ | docscrutiniser has n950? | 21:38 |
| rm_work | everyone constantly referring firmware/hostname "RM*" | 21:38 |
| kerio | RM | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~dict vestigial | 21:38 |
| rm_work | lol | 21:38 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'vestigial' (2): \Ves*tig"i*al\, a. Of or pertaining to a vestige or remnant; like a vestige. [1913 Webster] ;; not fully developed in mature animals; "rudimentary wings" . | 21:38 |
| achipa | and yes, if you rip the USB out from this one, you pretty much ripped out half of the circuit board ;) | 21:38 |
| kerio | rm_work: not to mention the unix command | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | I see | 21:39 |
| kerio | you know, rm | 21:39 |
| vi___ | DocScrutinizer: you have an n950? | 21:39 |
| kerio | or vi too, i suppose | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously, vi___ | 21:39 |
| ieatlint | haha, i like the messaging encoding settings: "Full, Reduced or Turkish" | 21:39 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: is it made of dreams and rainbows? | 21:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kerio: definitely not | 21:39 |
| kerio | is it good at least? | 21:39 |
| rm_work | kerio: yeah i'm used to it | 21:39 |
| vi___ | i guess we n900 users are now a prole underclass. | 21:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kerio: it is a device with 8GB myDocs and no slot for SD card | 21:40 |
| rm_work | i'm also often in the ubuntu/gentoo/programming channels | 21:40 |
| vi___ | ~dict prole | 21:40 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: wait, really? | 21:40 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'prole' (2): a member of the working class (not necessarily employed); "workers of the world--unite!" ;; Zip code(s): 50229. | 21:40 |
| kerio | that's... tiny | 21:40 |
| kerio | does the n9 hav emore? | 21:40 |
| kerio | *have | 21:40 |
| achipa | it's a developer device | 21:40 |
| rm_work | docscrutinizer: does it use a normal SIM? i never heard | 21:40 |
| MohammadAG | you asked for rootfs on eMMC, you got it | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, I get better mp3 players at my next chewing gum dsipenser machine | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | rm_work: yes | 21:40 |
| MohammadAG | achipa, they all say that :P | 21:41 |
| achipa | Would you be happier with, say, half the RAM and double the flash ? | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | Me? nope | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | just saying | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | though... | 21:42 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it's 16GBs, but rootfs is 4GBs | 21:42 |
| MohammadAG | 2GBs /home | 21:42 |
| vi___ | MohammadAG: do you have an n950? | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't think it's wise to give developers machines that are better regarding RAM or CPU than the target | 21:42 |
| MohammadAG | and we all know 16 = 14.8 | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I know | 21:42 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: correct. And we haven't | 21:42 |
| ruskie | well 4gb root sounds usable | 21:43 |
| MohammadAG | vi___, is this a survey? :P | 21:43 |
| vi___ | MohammadAG: no im just curious to see who is left. | 21:43 |
| ruskie | though 512mb rootfs on soc and /usr /var and /home mounted off emmc would have worked as well | 21:43 |
| MohammadAG | vi___, about 7 got the device | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: So N9 will have 1GB RAM? | 21:43 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not one of them :P | 21:43 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, yes | 21:43 |
| * ruskie really hopes the n9 losses aegis | 21:43 | |
| MohammadAG | ruskie, it won't | 21:44 |
| achipa | ruskie: not really, lot more fuss for no gain | 21:44 |
| achipa | the emmc in the N950 is faster than the N900 so there is no incentive to put the rootfs there | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | lemme pastie sth funny for you eventually.. The output of "mount" | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | SCARY!!! | 21:45 |
| achipa | yeah, that one is a mouthful | 21:45 |
| * ruskie waits to see if aegis gets broken | 21:46 | |
| ruskie | MohammadAG, hmm great... if it doesn't it means I save a ton of money and nokia never gets any of it | 21:46 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: 1GB ram, 16 or 64GB flash versions (N9) | 21:46 |
| MohammadAG | ruskie, start looking for devices then | 21:47 |
| vi___ | ruskie: save yourself the cash, n9 blows. | 21:47 |
| MohammadAG | it won't lose aegis | 21:47 |
| vi___ | ~dict blows | 21:47 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, 10 lines of aegis | 21:47 |
| infobot | could not find definition for blows | 21:47 |
| MohammadAG | amiright? | 21:47 |
| MohammadAG | vi___, think of all alternative devices | 21:47 |
| ruskie | might as well get a second n900 | 21:47 |
| MohammadAG | then say it blows | 21:47 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: just 8 | 21:47 |
| achipa | :S | 21:47 |
| nid0 | im very tempted by a droid 3 tbh | 21:48 |
| MohammadAG | achipa, I don't have a device, so I just guessed :P | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHA, clicking "Disconnect" on my WLAN connection (N950) triggers *immediate* reconnect - I'm fine with it for *now* as it was to accure the fixed IP I assigned | 21:48 |
| MohammadAG | well, if you don't mind Android, sure | 21:48 |
| vi___ | there is only one alternative, and most of us here already own one. or even two. | 21:48 |
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| nid0 | I do, but the first decent slider keyboard a phone in *years* is a big seller to me | 21:48 |
| achipa | nid0: is that the one with the locked bootloader ? | 21:48 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 21:49 |
| MohammadAG | I like how you think achipa :P | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: yep | 21:49 |
| nid0 | according to today's story achipa yeah sadly. but, it's also the one with the correct number of rows on the keyboard | 21:49 |
| * ruskie wonders how long until aegis is broken or bypassed | 21:49 | |
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| achipa | nid0: just thinkin' it's a bit funny how people flip out bc of aegis and then go and buy something that is even worse | 21:50 |
| vi___ | nid0: is it none? is it none rows on the keyboard. Like a really long wey-tube? | 21:50 |
| achipa | aegis looks scarier than it really is - a bit like selinux when you first encounter it | 21:50 |
| ruskie | selinux is just broken | 21:50 |
| achipa | broken can be scary :) | 21:50 |
| MohammadAG | I don't have an N950 but I think a space on the right is more ergonomic than one in the center | 21:50 |
| nid0 | i'm not flipping out over aegis though achipa, at the end of the day if the device works and isnt overbearingly restrictive I couldnt really care too much about what protection is in place to ensure the device can be commercially viable | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: you *can not* break aegis | 21:51 |
| ruskie | why because you're a right handed user? | 21:51 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 21:51 |
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| MohammadAG | well actually | 21:51 |
| MohammadAG | because I don't have to reach to the center to get it | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: see | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~aegis | 21:51 |
| infobot | [aegis] http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism | 21:51 |
| nid0 | and vi___ no, it's 5 | 21:51 |
| achipa | nid0: the point is most of aegis is disabled or self-administered. As in you might not have a right, but are free to attach it to your package and then it juts works. | 21:52 |
| MohammadAG | much like on a full size keyboard, the space is actually more clicked on the left/right hand side than in the center of it | 21:52 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, erm... you say that as if it has no bugs and other issues... | 21:52 |
| MohammadAG | ruskie, FYI DocScrutinizer hates aegis | 21:52 |
| MohammadAG | just saying | 21:52 |
| vi___ | MohammadAG: orly? | 21:52 |
| ruskie | I gathered as much from all the chatter over time | 21:52 |
| vi___ | ~dict scrutiniser | 21:52 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'scrutiniser' a careful examiner; someone who inspects with great care | 21:52 |
| ruskie | achipa, and that will let you run your own kernel??? | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: the concept of aegis aka TP is pretty much about a chain of trust, and that can be broken then it's defect, but you impossibly can cheat on it | 21:53 |
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| ruskie | oh? it has a TP module? | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMAP *is* a TP module | 21:53 |
| ruskie | does iphone and 'droid make use of that as well? | 21:54 |
| ds3 | TP? | 21:54 |
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| ruskie | "trusted" computing platform | 21:54 |
| vi___ | can n950 kernel source be compiled for n900? | 21:54 |
| * vi___ ducks | 21:54 | |
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| ds3 | ah | 21:55 |
| ruskie | ds3, you knew... where you the user are the non-trusted party | 21:56 |
| MohammadAG | yes it can | 21:56 |
| ruskie | s/knew/know/ | 21:56 |
| infobot | ruskie meant: ds3, you know... where you the user are the non-trusted party | 21:56 |
| vi___ | trusted computing platform, some words that on their own seem innocuos enough, however when combined...just like thai bride. | 21:56 |
| vi___ | MohammadAG: is there any benefit of doing this? | 21:56 |
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| MohammadAG | was there any benefit of your question? :P | 21:58 |
| hiemanshu | hey MohammadAG | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | hey hiemanshu | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | vi___, I doubt it will boot, but it will compile | 21:58 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: do you think nokia will ship our phone monday? | 21:58 |
| vi___ | ~dict nokia | 21:59 |
| infobot | could not find definition for nokia | 21:59 |
| vi___ | ~dict ship | 21:59 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'ship' (1 of 13): \Ship\, v. i. 1. To engage to serve on board of a vessel; as, to ship on a man-of-war. [1913 Webster] 2. To embark on a ship. --Wyclif (Acts xxviii. 11) [1913 Webster]. | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~tell vi___ about query | 21:59 |
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| ruskie | define nokia - company that consistently shoots self in foot when it comes to it's core users | 22:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you won't find such definition in a Merian-Webster style of dictionary | 22:00 |
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| hiemanshu | ruskie: more like 'company that cant even aim at its own foot while trying to shoot itself' | 22:00 |
| vi___ | I always say nokia as a company that shot itself through a bollock, then the foot, the inflted platform they were riding on. | 22:00 |
| MohammadAG | hiemanshu, yes | 22:01 |
| sid__ | can i also boot maemo from mmc? i only find documentations for meego | 22:01 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: and you sayz I am optimistic? | 22:01 |
| vi___ | MohammadAG: will compcache make all my dreams come true? | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | sid__: nice take - actually I pondered doing sth like that quite some time ago | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | sid__: basically it *should* work after you fixed some hard references to physical device names in initscripts etc | 22:02 |
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| vi___ | DocScrutinizer: why are transistors healthier than resistors? | 22:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vi___: why are stupid questions more annoying than stupid answers? | 22:04 |
| hiemanshu | vi___: because transistors transit current (holding something) and resistors resist current (holding nothing) :P | 22:04 |
| vi___ | DocScrutinizer: probably due to their *active* lifestyle | 22:04 |
| vi___ | heh | 22:05 |
| ds3 | transistors are fortified with silicon and all the other essential elements whereas resistors are just a pile of carbon :P | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I doubt transistors are any healthier - at least for humans | 22:05 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: did you do the 'Will the N950 blend?' test | 22:06 |
| hiemanshu | ? | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 22:06 |
| vi___ | DocScrutinizer: it was a joke, the punchline was 3 lines up | 22:06 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: or the flying test? | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I gonna do some really useful stuff now: go out have dinner | 22:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as this starts to become a timesink | 22:08 |
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| hiemanshu | eating is the biggest timesink known to man :P | 22:08 |
| hiemanshu | after sleeping :P | 22:08 |
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| achipa | hiemanshu: I thought that was TV or games | 22:12 |
| thopiekar_n900 | hi.. knows someone of you how to search for rfcomm ports on bluetooth devices? | 22:13 |
| hiemanshu | achipa: TV? What is that? and gaming is for cooling down, and having fun :P | 22:13 |
| thopiekar_n900 | * remote devices | 22:13 |
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| achipa | ruskie: and yes, you should be able to run your kernel. But the software you run will KNOW that, and what that implies is a whole different story | 22:14 |
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| MohammadAG | how do I null a pointer when it's deleted? | 22:15 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: use QPointer :) | 22:16 |
| ruskie | achipa, even if the kernel lacks aegis support? and anyth userspace aegis stuff is replaced by always on stubs? | 22:16 |
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| ieatlint | MohammadAG: pointer = 0 | 22:16 |
| achipa | if it lacks aegis support, stuff that requires it will not work, as easy as that | 22:17 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: dd if=/dev/null of=&pointer ?:P | 22:17 |
| Jaffa | Anyone know if it's possible to paste in N950 MeeGo Terminal? | 22:17 |
| ieatlint | just add a line of code of "*0;" and see what happens | 22:18 |
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| MohammadAG | achipa, wow, never knew about that, thanks! | 22:18 |
| vi__ | ok, i just fucked up big time. I accidently locked my device -_-' | 22:18 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, I can probably do it with a three way SSH tunnel | 22:18 |
| vi__ | I cannot remember the code | 22:18 |
| ruskie | achipa, I would assume aegis is a multi part thing... one is TP, another is a kernel bit and the final is a userspace part... if you swap out the kernel and userspace bits to always come up with the right answers to whatever needs it... it should bypass it... unless the loader is also doing ... | 22:19 |
| vi__ | is there a limit to the number of tries I have? | 22:19 |
| ruskie | ... something screwy... | 22:19 |
| ieatlint | vi__: probably | 22:19 |
| ruskie | vi__, I thoguht it asks you about the code before locking | 22:19 |
| achipa | ruskie: it's not a yes/no question | 22:19 |
| achipa | aegis means signed binaries | 22:19 |
| ieatlint | i'd go look at the n900 way of solving that and pray it works on the n9 | 22:19 |
| achipa | if you lost the keys (trust chain) along the way, the binaries are worthless | 22:19 |
| ruskie | achipa, you still need something in userspace that would confirm the sigs | 22:20 |
| ruskie | don't you? | 22:20 |
| achipa | no | 22:20 |
| achipa | as said | 22:20 |
| achipa | it's not confirming | 22:20 |
| achipa | it decodes with the key and runs | 22:20 |
| ruskie | ahh so not SIGNED... but ENCRYPTED | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: no limit | 22:20 |
| achipa | kinda both | 22:20 |
| achipa | a bit like GPG :) | 22:20 |
| ruskie | well encrypt would imply signage | 22:21 |
| achipa | it's the app's choice | 22:21 |
| achipa | i.e. it can be encrypted, but doesn't have to | 22:21 |
| ruskie | but this would generally f... up only binary-only things | 22:21 |
| achipa | (ditto for signage) | 22:21 |
| vi__ | omg im such a fscking doofus | 22:21 |
| ruskie | vi__, 12345? | 22:21 |
| vi__ | no, I set the code myself | 22:22 |
| achipa | ruskie: there might be a couple of binary things of interest in the firmware | 22:22 |
| vi__ | i know it is somthing to so with pi | 22:22 |
| vi__ | 3.141592654858 | 22:22 |
| vi__ | or phi | 22:22 |
| vi__ | 1 | 22:22 |
| vi__ | ~dict phi | 22:22 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'phi' the 21st letter of the Greek alphabet | 22:22 |
| vi__ | goddamit | 22:22 |
| ruskie | achipa, well that depends if they will be encrypted or not | 22:23 |
| achipa | ruskie: the point is - even if it's text, if it's signed, bash or whatever will refuse to run it | 22:23 |
| ruskie | unless you decrypt and design it | 22:23 |
| achipa | ruskie: you can of course COPY the unencrypted stuff and then go about with it on your own kernel, but that doesn't quite cover much on a linux system | 22:24 |
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| achipa | ruskie: that might be tricky as the chain of trust, i.e. keys start on the hardware level | 22:25 |
| ruskie | achipa, see example: PS3 | 22:25 |
| * ShadowJK tried typing on capacitive onscreen keyboard today | 22:25 | |
| ruskie | ShadowJK, broke the screen or your fingers? | 22:26 |
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| Atarii | anyone know the command to kill all cellular daemons? I'm sure I found one the other day on the forums | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | 1 out of 8 "test" came out right :) | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | then someone said to use swype, and it suggested all my previous misspellings. | 22:26 |
| achipa | ruskie: no technology will save you from idiocy or random luck, but AFAIK none of the breakage was a failure of the technology itself, but how it was applied | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | ruskie, nope. | 22:26 |
| ruskie | achipa, as there are always humans involved in such designing... there is always a lucky break in the form of human error | 22:27 |
| * ShadowJK does slightly better on N900 osk | 22:27 | |
| vi__ | OMG | 22:27 |
| vi__ | OMG | 22:27 |
| vi__ | OMG | 22:27 |
| vi__ | 31415 | 22:28 |
| achipa | vi__: was that the passwd ? :) | 22:28 |
| * ruskie simply dislikes all onscreen keyboards | 22:28 | |
| vi__ | phew | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: which, in case of aegis, is always easily "fixed" with simple deployment of according new manifests from central repo | 22:28 |
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| achipa | ruskie: always is a slightly optimistic term IMHO | 22:28 |
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| ruskie | so basically nokia first makes a very open device... followed by a completly crippled device after that... | 22:32 |
| ruskie | that really makes absolutely no sense | 22:32 |
| achipa | they are pretty much the same AFAIK | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: the point of a chain-of-trust approach is you never really can fake/spoof an intact chain, so you maybe can hack one binary that's asking for a trusted environment so with your hack you may run a screen ripper nevertheless, but you never can hack the chain-of-trust in a way that this works automatically for all binaries and all sorts of requirements they check on start | 22:32 |
| * ruskie follows a similar chain-of-trust... if developer or manufacturer can't trust me to not rip them off then I can't trust them with my money | 22:34 | |
| achipa | ruskie: and as said, there is a difference between CAN limit and DOES limit | 22:34 |
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| achipa | well then boycott linx | 22:35 |
| achipa | linux | 22:35 |
| achipa | because of selinux | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: also it's rather evident that it's never been Nokia's primary interest to build a max open device. To me it seems $*Nokia* modulo [Quim|Carsten|few_others] was mostly exploiting the openness of linux to create their own still rather locked up OS | 22:35 |
| achipa | it doesn't trust you | 22:35 |
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| ruskie | achipa, I somehow get the feeling it'll be a DOES not a CAN | 22:35 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, so basically just like all the other manufacturers | 22:35 |
| ruskie | achipa, selinux is something the user controls(it's just to stupid to configure properly) | 22:36 |
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| ruskie | aegis the user has no control and is controlled by... $third_party | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 22:37 |
| achipa | nobody forces you to use aegis | 22:37 |
| achipa | there is a choice, even if not a pleasant one | 22:37 |
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| achipa | and as said, aegis is really toned down compared to what it COULD do | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: you have one choice with Nokia's implementation, and that is to discard aegis, load your own kernel, and don't use meegoHarmattan basically | 22:38 |
| ruskie | really you consider not being able to run dmesg toned down? | 22:38 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, will wait then to see what a community edition will come up with | 22:38 |
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| achipa | ruskie: yes | 22:39 |
| achipa | ruskie: I've seen what it can do. dmesg is ridiculously unimportant in those terms | 22:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it seems community is trying to use aegis or security framework as well, on CE. But hehe, luckily this never will pan out, as Nokia is holding the rootcert of OMAP and they won't sign the daily builds of CE kernels | 22:40 |
| achipa | ruskie: plus, you seem to be mixing DEFAULT with POSSIBLE | 22:41 |
| ruskie | achipa, always | 22:41 |
| ruskie | I always assume that the worst of two possible choices will be the chosen one | 22:41 |
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| achipa | okay, so you expect dpkg and bash to be locked out by aegis ? | 22:42 |
| achipa | (for example?) | 22:42 |
| ruskie | I even assumed the n900 would be more smartphone like... and in that case I was pleasantly surprised with the end result | 22:43 |
| ruskie | achipa, frankly I wouldn't be surprised | 22:43 |
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| achipa | ruskie: well, you are wrong | 22:43 |
| ruskie | well on the n950 sure... | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: quite possible on later MP devices, in non-open (aka non-developer) mode | 22:43 |
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| ruskie | I'm talking N9 | 22:43 |
| achipa | ruskie: it's the same | 22:43 |
| achipa | N9/N950 | 22:43 |
| ruskie | you can't claim that as there is no N9 out yet | 22:44 |
| achipa | ruskie: I can | 22:44 |
| SpeedEvil | The OS is broadly the same - the policies of aegis/... can change. | 22:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's the "nice" part about aegis. Plicies can change any time | 22:44 |
| achipa | it will be the same | 22:45 |
| SpeedEvil | achipa: Says who? | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, they could even change the policies especially particularly for you and your particular devcice | 22:45 |
| achipa | and Nokia could send SWAT teams to raid you. Right. Healthy paranoia | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | what paranoia? I say they *could* | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's simple stating of facts | 22:47 |
| achipa | sure, a car COULD run me over | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 22:47 |
| achipa | the lady in sodexo COULD poison me | 22:48 |
| achipa | (in fact, they kinda do...) | 22:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, I think wikipedia has it all, in | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~aegis | 22:49 |
| infobot | it has been said that aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism | 22:49 |
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| ruskie | if you want a safe execution environment... don't distribute your software | 22:49 |
| ruskie | keep it locked in a safe | 22:50 |
| ruskie | hard printed | 22:50 |
| achipa | might be hard to sell in that case, tho | 22:50 |
| ruskie | ow you want to make money... here's a hint... don't treat your customers as thieves | 22:50 |
| achipa | hey, you're preaching to the choir | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I'm just happy and agree with SpeedEvil's nice wordminting: <SpeedEvil> So it's kinda like a nuclear bomber that's ended up being deployed to keep kids off the lawn. ( http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-06-30.log.html#t2011-06-30T17:19:40 ) | 22:51 |
| achipa | but see iOS. See Android LVL | 22:52 |
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| ruskie | achipa, apples meet oranges meet grapes ;) | 22:53 |
| achipa | the problem is that 3rd party devs DO bbelieve it helps them | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5115609628556940516&q=trusted+computing | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I was more meaning that given the n9's lilkely market share. | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5115609628556940516&q=trusted+computing# even | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Compared to the expected market share that it was going to be used on, when aegis was specified a couple of years ago | 22:54 |
| SpeedEvil | maybe a little more | 22:54 |
| achipa | SpeedEvil: which is the reason why it's nowhere as resptrictive it could be | 22:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 22:54 |
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| Atarii | does garage.maemo.org use a different account to talk.maemo.org ? | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | achipa: (the problem is...) that with Aegis you hand the tools to those 3rd parties to take control over *your* device, basically. Yes yes I know you don't *have* to use thir products so they won't have control. But think about mediaplayers etc | 22:56 |
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| rcg | Atarii: it does | 22:58 |
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| Atarii | thanks | 22:59 |
| rcg | https://garage.maemo.org/account/register.php | 22:59 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: and we run stuff from extras will full root rights... yes, I know, apples and oranges, but still | 23:00 |
| rcg | Atarii: ^ | 23:00 |
| Atarii | yea, awesome thanks again :) | 23:01 |
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| rcg | np :) | 23:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | achipa: I wonder if flasher/NOLO/MOSLO will forbid "debranding" of carrier-locked devices, by not allowing to flash a clean original meego system to those devices | 23:03 |
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| achipa | DocScrutinizer: that I don't know... | 23:06 |
| achipa | though I would assume carrier lock is on the cellular firmware level | 23:06 |
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| achipa | (which is a separate thing) | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, this is a separate thing I'm not talking about | 23:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm just talking about replacing a 'custom' rootfs with a genuine Nokia meegoHarm rootfs | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | cmt is a unrelated domain mostly | 23:09 |
| achipa | yeah, dunno about that | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | and SIMlocks are safe by design | 23:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Nokia could do a great deal of confidence-building by opening up the flasher and NOLO | 23:10 |
| kerio | sure, let's ask elop | 23:11 |
| achipa | uhh... let's not go there, it will make my head hurt :) | 23:11 |
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| Khertan | X-Fade, in case of you didn't see some have problem with extras-assistant : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1046874#post1046874 | 23:24 |
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