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| * vi___ waits for RST38h to deliver | 00:01 | |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: yo dawg, I heard you like to study, so we failed you AGAIN! :D | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
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| * Jaffa just can't get the difference between recursion and iteration - I keep going over and over it, but I just can't get into it. | 00:04 | |
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| Jaffa | I'll get my coat. | 00:04 |
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| * dm8tbr groans | 00:05 | |
| vi___ | Jaffa: ... | 00:05 |
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| javispedro | Jaffa: hand in your geek card right now. As well as your N950. | 00:06 |
| javispedro | ... the geek club gentlemen tell me you can keep the card but not the N950, though. | 00:09 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Recursion is where your stack grows | 00:13 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I.e. you do not just loop, you call yourself | 00:13 |
| RST38h | Tail recursion (i.e. where you call yourself at the end of your function) can be effectively converted to iterations | 00:13 |
| javispedro | i think it was kind of a joke | 00:14 |
| RST38h | Maybe, yea, but I have not got it =E | 00:14 |
| javispedro | ooh | 00:14 |
| javispedro | so multitouch on te n9{50,} is handled by xinput2... | 00:15 |
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| * javispedro starts to feel slight pain even before checking out xinput2 headers | 00:15 | |
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| * noobmonk3y blinks | 00:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: :-))) | 00:25 |
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| noobmonk3y | MohammadAG / frals what have you lot done with lcuk? or has he gone soft! now he has a baby he takes time out from Ircing?! :P | 00:25 |
| ieatlint | geeks with kids is always a scary propsect | 00:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yo | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: lemme guess... driver for that is completely closed? | 00:31 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: didn't check it, it's just that the entire multitouching thing is pretty much a jungle atm | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol, expected no less than that | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | MT is a concept way too young in IT | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably all APIs and whatnot will constatntly change on a weekly pace for the next say 5 years | 00:33 |
| javispedro | http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/12/15/touching-the-x11-2/ | 00:34 |
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| javispedro | before xinput2, they were asking the kernel for mt directly, bypassing x11 =) | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh new experimental xinput2.1, as of Dec 2010. Say, will it suffice when I check this site once a day for changes? | 00:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you may feel pain, I start to feel nausea | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I'm not even pondering to look at the headers | 00:38 |
| RST38h | the key moment is when you start feeling insanity crawling up | 00:38 |
| RST38h | Symbian has been known to cause that | 00:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | I love to watch peolpe on experiencing that moment | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | people* | 00:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe sybian designers felt similar | 00:40 |
| RST38h | Symbian designers are long beyond insanity now | 00:41 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: I wonder if sybian is better than symbian :D | 00:41 |
| RST38h | A moment (locating an article) | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: I bet the designers are quite happy people | 00:41 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: or maybe high | 00:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | hiemanshu, gotta hook it up to an AppleScript so it discos the house lights and turns on all of the stereos when I get an @nokia.com email containing "N950". | 00:41 |
| javispedro | do we know the max number of simultaneous touches on the n9 display? | 00:42 |
| hiemanshu | GeneralAntilles: haha, nice :D | 00:42 |
| hiemanshu | GeneralAntilles: I have a google email checker/notifier, maybe I can patch it to play 'I feel good' when it get an email containg N950 | 00:43 |
| RST38h | Doc,javispedro: Here, enjoy: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/03/symbian_utopia_lost/print.html | 00:43 |
| * hiemanshu is going insane trying to design a softphone | 00:43 | |
| RST38h | (avoid eating immediately before or in the process of reading this) | 00:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: I wonder if (and when) Quim will send an informative mail ""(if you are not accidentally in this list) We just have sent the last bunch of AIDs to developer.nokia launchpad dudes. check following URL for something to happen"" | 00:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, I heard at least 6. | 00:45 |
| javispedro | dammit | 00:45 |
| javispedro | pre has 5 | 00:45 |
| Hurrian | ali1234 : image mounted, beginning experiments. | 00:45 |
| javispedro | well. | 00:45 |
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| * javispedro increases MAX_TOUCHES #define | 00:45 | |
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| Hurrian | ubi0:var /var ubifs noauto,no_chk_data_crc,bulk_read | 00:46 |
| Hurrian | what the | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: 10 is a rather sane max | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 00:46 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: but I can use my foot too? | 00:47 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you mutant racist | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 00:47 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: I can probably got 10 fingers and 6 toes on the 3.9" screen | 00:47 |
| hiemanshu | get* | 00:47 |
| javispedro | by then the capacitive screen wil probably be able to electrocute you | 00:48 |
| hiemanshu | its ok, I'll wear rubber slippers :P | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd say this is handled by generic -ETOMUCHTOUCHPONTS | 00:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | -EMAXTP even | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | any UX designer telling me we need >10 will immediately get shot | 00:50 |
| hiemanshu | any ux designer telling me he needs to use more than 4 fingers needs to be shot, and have one hand chopped off | 00:51 |
| hiemanshu | s/and/or/ | 00:51 |
| infobot | hiemanshu meant: any ux designer telling me he needs to use more than 4 fingers needs to be shot, or have one hand chopped off | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc 0:10 | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | hiemanshu, OK, script enabled. | 00:54 |
| * GeneralAntilles wishes he had an alarm siren. | 00:54 | |
| DocScrutinizer | actually http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnQHoCDxiRw&NR=1 1:53 | 00:54 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: in five years, when you have completely forgotten what Nokia was, suddenly your stereo will turn on indicating your Launchpad application has been approved, causing you a heart attack. | 00:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 00:55 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: games are different :D | 00:55 |
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| hiemanshu | javispedro: well, if nokia is dead in 5 years, I can see apple at the top, and android being the next symbian | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: see, this separates the hotspurs from the considerate API designers | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | a max of 10 seems ok | 00:57 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: agreed | 00:57 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: for something unlike that, for any normal workflow 4 is sane | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | agreed | 00:58 |
| hiemanshu | is nokia changed the swipe to 2 finger instead of 1, it would avoid a lot of swiping mistakes | 00:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | HAH | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | good point | 00:59 |
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| hiemanshu | esp if you have used an iPhone before, you will know how important swiping from the edge of the screen can be a times | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | where's my gconf tweaker to set all those parameters?!? | 00:59 |
| javispedro | it's now CSS files. | 01:01 |
| javispedro | but I disagree. | 01:01 |
| javispedro | multitouch suckss. | 01:01 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: sure, but when you have it, use it sanely | 01:01 |
| javispedro | everytime you require more than one finger, you've failed. | 01:01 |
| hiemanshu | everytime you require a fingure you have failed | 01:02 |
| javispedro | gimme my stylus! | 01:02 |
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| hiemanshu | what stylus? use your brain waves | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | gconftool -s t=int /maemo/swipe/swipegesturefingers 2 | 01:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually scrolling with 2 fingers is the best part of my laptop's touchpad | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, why mt, why c-ts at all, when you're not *exploiting* it? | 01:05 |
| hiemanshu | exactly | 01:05 |
| hiemanshu | using mt just for pinching is like using a jet plane to go to work 5 mins away from home | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Multitouch is great for trackpads | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 01:05 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: because I still like to use this stuff singlehandedly from time to time. | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gimmicky for mobile devices. | 01:06 |
| * javispedro prefers synaptic's circular scrolling instead of twofinger | 01:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? javispedro do you need two hands to do a 2 finger swipe instead of a one-finger swipe? | 01:06 |
| javispedro | hm.. yes? | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 01:07 |
| Hurrian | ...awright. the SD card has been loaded with MeeGo software. | 01:07 |
| * javispedro ponders how to grab the thing stably so that I have more than thumb finger free. | 01:08 | |
| Hurrian | uh... Harmattan software | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I start to get it why you had problems with MAX_TOUCHES #define | 01:08 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: use your foots | 01:08 |
| hiemanshu | feet* | 01:08 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: sadly I only have one thumb finger per hand, dunno about you.. | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2, like any decent parrot | 01:09 |
| Hurrian | now it would really suck, if it started writing to mtd1 | 01:09 |
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| Hurrian | hopefully the meego kernel would disallow any freaky shit | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: see, that's why we urgently need a API to *configure* such things like SWIPENUMFINGERS, T_DBLCLICK, SWIPEFRAMESIZE_PIX... | 01:11 |
| javispedro | yes, I was also being racist towards mutants here I think... | 01:11 |
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| javispedro | ;P | 01:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | It's simply arrogant for a UX designer to think he got the only valid doubleclick-duration etc | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | all those parameters need a proper API, nah even a proper settings tool OOTB | 01:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | things like that auto-symbol/auto-bluekey, like what to do on doubleclick of $random(-button), like how many fingers to use for swipe gesture, how much damping / inertia kinetic scrolling got... all that is way more to the top of my list of important things user must have a way to control than such nonsense like wallpapers | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe it's just me and I'm going weird... | 01:19 |
| hiemanshu | I dont think I even change wallpapers on my phones/computers | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I never did | 01:19 |
| hiemanshu | well my N900 has the default theme/wallpaper, so does my computer, my gaming PC and about every other device I own | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I kicked out whatever wallpaper came with my desktop distro, and replaced it by a simple color gradient | 01:20 |
| javispedro | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/resources/300003/datepicker.png is still useless. | 01:21 |
| javispedro | day of the week! please! | 01:21 |
| hiemanshu | the wallpaper on my gaming PC is a photo I clicked because the default W7 one is stupid and sasd | 01:21 |
| hiemanshu | sad* | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMFG I don't dare to even peek | 01:21 |
| hiemanshu | javispedro: used the Qt default names :/ | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | NOOOOOOOOOOOO ohnoooooes! | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | again slotmachine | 01:22 |
| hiemanshu | well thats how the iPhone does it | 01:22 |
| * hiemanshu isn't suggesting anything though | 01:23 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | PFFFFFFFFF! More than good a reason to do it diferently, possibly better | 01:23 |
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| MohammadAG | slot machine method isn't bad | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | zenity --calendar FTW! | 01:25 |
| MohammadAG | but hildon had a retarded bounce effect | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | slot machine is nonsense | 01:26 |
| MohammadAG | so when you lift your finger it doesn't stay where it is | 01:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | slotmachine is as uninspired as it possibly can get | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | and, as javispedro noticed, still missing day-of-week | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm ~20 times faster with zenity --calendar than witj friggin slotmachine | 01:28 |
| * noobmonk3y blinks | 01:28 | |
| SpeedEvil | They're optimising the first usecase over the normal. | 01:28 |
| SpeedEvil | The slotmachine is cool the first few times | 01:28 |
| javispedro | please learn: http://members.shaw.ca/guis/palmos41/calendar5.gif | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: "we meet today in two weeks" | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | "Friday in 3 weeks" | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | "first monday of November" | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 01:30 |
| SpeedEvil | easter | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I want to see the UX gasheads entering "second monday of november" with their slotmachine | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | week 38 | 01:31 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: even "next tuesday" is deadly hard. | 01:31 |
| javispedro | no need to get to brutal extremes | 01:31 |
| javispedro | when adding appointments, I'm usually the only one that looks at the ceiling, lost, making the mental calculation. | 01:32 |
| javispedro | every otherone in the meeting having lost that ability because their pim platform does it for them. | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is so painfully ridiculously useless a widget, I'm out of words for it | 01:32 |
| Hurrian | ah, crap, n950 image messed up my device | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: in maemo5 calendar you at least can click on a day in week- or month-view, to add a new appointment there | 01:34 |
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| Hurrian | i'm pretty sure these are watchdog reboots | 01:34 |
| javispedro | mine boots to agendaview with prominent "add event" button so I always forget. | 01:34 |
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| * hiemanshu is out for the night | 01:35 | |
| * DocScrutinizer too | 01:35 | |
| Hurrian | brb, need a reflash | 01:35 |
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| javispedro | hiemanshu: DocScrutinizer cya then. | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: should we start a petition to Nokia "please get a decent usable date selector widget - nuke slotmachine" ? | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | (for harmattan/N9) | 01:37 |
| javispedro | too late probably, though we could file the bug. | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed, highest priority | 01:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer idly wonders where to file bugs against harmattan | 01:37 | |
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| javispedro | http://developer.nokia.com/bugs | 01:39 |
| mens | helo what is news on n950? | 01:39 |
| macmaN | can anyone log into Maps with their N950? | 01:40 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/enter_bug.cgi | 01:40 |
| mens | oh it's the great emulator porter javispedro ! thank you | 01:40 |
| javispedro | hi. | 01:40 |
| hiemanshu | all hail javispedro! all hail javispedro! | 01:40 |
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| mens | has someone make faster pulseaudio? | 01:41 |
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| javispedro | nope | 01:42 |
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| javispedro | though n950 might not need to do xprot | 01:43 |
| javispedro | and friends. | 01:43 |
| macmaN | i guess its not maps, its that nokia accounts isnt working on n950 | 01:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, I'll probably not contribute to developers.nokia.com - this site refuses to log me in when I use Konqueror, despite cookies enables, js enabled, modules enabled, and even browser-id set to FF-3x | 01:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm just back to absolutely same login page | 01:47 |
| javispedro | aegis did a fullbody scan on your browser | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry Nokia :-S | 01:47 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: use lynx :D | 01:48 |
| * DocScrutinizer beats hiemanshu with aegis | 01:48 | |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: please dont beat me with a scumbag | 01:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ooh, forgot to mention: I of course cleaned out all old cookies of that site, no that there've been many | 01:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (for meego.com I actually had to clean out a "session-end" cookie, and it finally allowed me to log in) | 01:51 |
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| hiemanshu | gah, its 4.30 am :/ | 01:54 |
| * hiemanshu is out for real | 01:54 | |
| Hurrian | HAM, how i hate thee | 01:55 |
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| Hurrian | it is so buggy and slow | 01:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | went via plain login URL instead of this redirection thing you get when you hit the loginscreen via e.g. http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/enter_bug.cgi. Deleted again *all* cookies related to *nokia*, accepted all cookies, ignored the recursive-link "404" screen of the browser by hitting F5, and TADAA voila: I'm logged in to developer.nokia | 02:04 |
| Hurrian | @DocScrutinizer : the new design's buggy? | 02:05 |
| javispedro | well, seems that Xinput2 looks mostly sane. | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | the old one wasn't? :-P | 02:06 |
| Hurrian | anyone got the note on N950 firmware : DO NOT USE | 02:06 |
| Hurrian | nokia as expected did another Nokia | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | developer.nokia *never* previously worked for me logging in, on Konqueror | 02:07 |
| Hurrian | (thanks qwerty12 for that expression ;) | 02:07 |
| Hurrian | needed to reflash D: | 02:07 |
| javispedro | Hurrian: the ddp devices have another firmware version seemignly | 02:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err wut? you mustn't flash the N950 with the only available N950 firmware image, or what? | 02:08 |
| Hurrian | no, i mean running the n950 image on the N900 | 02:09 |
| Hurrian | instant fs clobbering | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 02:09 |
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| javispedro | why you'd want to do that, I mean, mtdswap probably instantly killed your rootfs. | 02:10 |
| javispedro | it's not like mtd partitions are nicely mapped out in a first sector, they're hardcoded | 02:10 |
| Hurrian | run N950 sw image -> hang on boot -> battery pull -> bootup M5 -> kernel panic -> startup -> Internal Errors Everywhere | 02:10 |
| Hurrian | var was the only one on a ubi partition | 02:11 |
| Hurrian | everything else was on ext4 and /mydocs | 02:11 |
| Hurrian | fun fact, /home is on a separate partition | 02:11 |
| javispedro | I'm not talking only about ubi. | 02:11 |
| javispedro | there's mtdswap. | 02:11 |
| Hurrian | hmm, didn't know about that | 02:12 |
| Hurrian | brb, bfast | 02:12 |
| javispedro | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh | 02:14 |
| javispedro | QT_RX71_MULTITOUCH | 02:14 |
| javispedro | I sure hope it is dead by now. | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I'm about to enter a ticket. You say http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/resources/300003/datepicker.png is the datepicker widget used in harmattan, right? | 02:15 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: not sure, that seems to be the qml one | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | *sigh* | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, nevermind | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | another time | 02:15 |
| javispedro | save the prose for next time though :) | 02:15 |
| javispedro | I'm sure that as soon as I try to enter an event in stock calendar I am going to need it. | 02:16 |
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| macmaN | DocScrutinizer: can you sign in to nokia account? | 02:18 |
| ali1234 | Hurrian: what the hell did you do?? | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: Tried to install n950 firmware on the n900 with a hammer. | 02:18 |
| ali1234 | i know but i'm guessing he didn't just flash the fiasco | 02:18 |
| Hurrian | ali1234: cssu! | 02:19 |
| ali1234 | what does cssu have to do with it? | 02:19 |
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| ali1234 | i would probably try to launch just the ux from a chroot if i was going to try it | 02:22 |
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| ali1234 | you'll have to kill hildon and disabl the watchdog though | 02:23 |
| javispedro | why | 02:26 |
| javispedro | I mean, most of meegotouch runs without such ado | 02:26 |
| ali1234 | because running two window managers isn't going to work very well? | 02:27 |
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| javispedro | ah, you mean the sw watchdog | 02:27 |
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| ali1234 | i mean whatever it is that reboots the phone if hildon exits | 02:27 |
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| javispedro | either way, if you plan to use the stock kernel, biggest issue is softfp sgx libraries | 02:28 |
| ali1234 | why is that an issue? can't link to them? | 02:29 |
| javispedro | not easily... | 02:29 |
| javispedro | sgx libs have plenty of FP parameter passing -- not going to work unless you make a wrapper. | 02:30 |
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| javispedro | and I'm not sure wheter the CE hardfp libraries will work with the stock n900 kernel, but most probably don't. | 02:31 |
| javispedro | if you want to get as of now the most similar ui to n9, just apt-get meegotouch (yes, it's there), and scp the theme files from harmattan. won't get swipe, but then swipe in n900 would be pain imho. | 02:32 |
| * ieatlint wonders how long before swype takes an issue with swipe | 02:33 | |
| ali1234 | isn't it more about getting the apps? | 02:33 |
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| javispedro | but I do not think you're getting the propietary apps working with stock kernel. | 02:34 |
| javispedro | maybe if you do the above but on top of meegoCE instead of maemo ;) | 02:35 |
| ali1234 | yeah i was just thinking that | 02:35 |
| ali1234 | can you make reverse debs like you can with rpms? | 02:35 |
| javispedro | no idea what that is. | 02:36 |
| javispedro | but does not sound like the hard part. | 02:36 |
| ali1234 | well with rpm you can query the list of files installed by each rpm, and then reconstruct the original rpm from the filesystem | 02:36 |
| javispedro | ah. | 02:36 |
| Hurrian | ...so either we fix the CE kernel or hack up the 2.6.32 kernel? | 02:36 |
| ali1234 | thus turning an installed system back into a repository | 02:36 |
| ali1234 | then you can install those rpms somewhere else :) | 02:37 |
| javispedro | Hurrian: fix what? | 02:37 |
| Hurrian | to make it boot Harmattan | 02:37 |
| Hurrian | de-adaptation | 02:37 |
| javispedro | but what's broken. | 02:37 |
| Hurrian | actually, we have to break it nokia's way ;) | 02:38 |
| javispedro | forget about just flashing image, which is I think what you want to do. | 02:38 |
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| javispedro | chroot as ali1234 suggested, and start component by component. do not ever run one single initscript from the image. | 02:39 |
| ali1234 | try booting the n950 kernel on n900, see what happens :) | 02:39 |
| javispedro | different audio setup at least ;) | 02:39 |
| ali1234 | where did it branch from mainline? | 02:39 |
| ali1234 | just rebuild it with rx51 support :) | 02:40 |
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| javispedro | that _might_ work. | 02:40 |
| ali1234 | there is plenty of stuff to try | 02:40 |
| ali1234 | most of it probably won't work | 02:40 |
| javispedro | cause I bet they did harmattan testing on n900, so it's probably not much rotten. | 02:40 |
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| ali1234 | and none of it will work without lots of hacking | 02:41 |
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| javispedro | but either way. | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | It would be fascinating if you could get alien firmware working. | 02:41 |
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| javispedro | You might not need anything other than the meegoCE kernel... | 02:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Even if only from the dev POV | 02:41 |
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| javispedro | SpeedEvil: what do you mean? -- people get e.g. gentoo running on it daily. | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: I mean n950 fw on n900 | 02:42 |
| javispedro | that's more concrete than alien ;P </nitpick> | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | I should read backscroll, I thoguht that was clear. | 02:42 |
| Hurrian | javispedro, i did it the meego-CE way | 02:43 |
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| javispedro | SpeedEvil: don't mind. It's just that I though you used "alien" to specifically mean more alien than another maemo release ;) | 02:44 |
| Hurrian | copy to sd card, flasher -l | 02:44 |
| Hurrian | not flashing using flasher! | 02:44 |
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| ali1234 | i thought you were talking about the thing that turns rpms into debs... | 02:44 |
| javispedro | hah. | 02:44 |
| ali1234 | Hurrian: so you dd the ext4 image to a sd partition and then boot a meego kernel with root=sd card partition | 02:45 |
| javispedro | therefore ran all harmattan init scripts, including the one that does mtdswap on some mtd partition. | 02:45 |
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| ali1234 | yeah i wouldn't really expect that to work too well | 02:45 |
| ali1234 | maybe if you edit the initscripts to just give you a root shell | 02:46 |
| ali1234 | and then try to load stuff up 1 at a time | 02:46 |
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| Hurrian | ali1234: yup | 02:48 |
| Hurrian | javispedro, what is mtdswap? | 02:48 |
| javispedro | Hurrian: exactly what it says on the tin: swap on mtd. | 02:48 |
| Hurrian | ah | 02:48 |
| Hurrian | wow, that seems like a really bad idea | 02:49 |
| Hurrian | swap... on mtd | 02:49 |
| alterego | I wonder if it's the same on N9 | 02:50 |
| javispedro | you prefer on eMMC card with completely propietary and probably weak wear management firmware? | 02:50 |
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| alterego | N950 limited life, N9 limited life? | 02:50 |
| cehteh | doa :) | 02:50 |
| ali1234 | hey, here's an idea, why don't we make a mobile OS that doesn't need 1GB ram to run | 02:50 |
| ali1234 | we could call it... symbian | 02:50 |
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| alterego | ali1234: a mobile os shouldn't need that to run :P | 02:51 |
| alterego | F'ing ubuntu doesn't need that to run .. | 02:51 |
| javispedro | ali1234: maybe it's not on n9, cause of 1GiB RAM. Also, ramzswap is around. | 02:51 |
| cehteh | careless apps do and bling does | 02:51 |
| ali1234 | lol ubuntu... | 02:51 |
| alterego | N950 has 1G ram | 02:51 |
| ali1234 | my ubuntu runs really fast now that i have 16gb | 02:51 |
| cehteh | has the n9 ramzswap? | 02:51 |
| ali1234 | 4gb was NOT enough | 02:51 |
| alterego | ali1234: I run it on machines with less than qG fine | 02:51 |
| alterego | 1G .. | 02:51 |
| ali1234 | the speed difference is incredible now | 02:52 |
| ali1234 | firefox almost never freezes. almost | 02:52 |
| javispedro | hah | 02:52 |
| alterego | Hah | 02:52 |
| alterego | firefox, the new emacs :) | 02:52 |
| javispedro | have to say that's probably rotary media large cache in effect. | 02:52 |
| alterego | Shame I like 'em both :D | 02:53 |
| ali1234 | probably, coupled with firefox's retarded "i want to manage my own cache" policy | 02:53 |
| javispedro | ali1234: on a 16GiB it may make sense to install preload and all the adaptative crap, if you can stand the hard disk activity. | 02:53 |
| cehteh | the nice thing about 32 bit firefox builds is that it never needs more than 4GB ram :P | 02:53 |
| ali1234 | which combined with ubuntu's relatively high swappiness value leads to disk cache getting cached in disk cache, and ram cache getting swapped to disk | 02:54 |
| javispedro | cehteh: but it crashes!! | 02:54 |
| * cehteh once ran the 32bit ff on his 64 bit laptop :P | 02:54 | |
| cehteh | in a 'keepalive' loop | 02:54 |
| javispedro | cehteh: I'm sure you can implement the same "bug" on amd64 using ulimit or similar | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | nevertheless, did it: http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=219 | 02:54 |
| povbot | Bug 219: submenus do not open, timing issue | 02:54 |
| javispedro | povbot: bad bot! | 02:54 |
| povbot | javispedro: Error: "bad" is not a valid command. | 02:54 |
| Hurrian | hmm, phone calls work, and i can see the N900's MAC address on my router, and it doesn't ask for lock code | 02:54 |
| Hurrian | mtd1 seems to be OK | 02:55 |
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| javispedro | Hurrian: what saved you is that nokia keeps using mtd1 and mtd2 for the same in n950/n9 | 02:56 |
| Hurrian | hmm, so i'm guessing it actually tried to swap on mtd5 | 02:56 |
| javispedro | ...but the rest.. | 02:56 |
| Hurrian | or something else | 02:56 |
| cehteh | #!/bin/sh | 02:56 |
| cehteh | $@ || exec $0 $@ | 02:56 |
| alterego | It's all the same device | 02:56 |
| Hurrian | javispedro : :) | 02:56 |
| javispedro | alterego: he tried to run the harmattan image on n900. | 02:56 |
| javispedro | alterego: initscripts et all. | 02:57 |
| alterego | javispedro: eeek! | 02:57 |
| alterego | baby steps please? | 02:57 |
| ali1234 | well you never know, sometimes these things just work | 02:57 |
| alterego | Also, good luck getting celmo to work ... #justsaying | 02:57 |
| FIQ | wat | 02:57 |
| Hurrian | alterego ++ | 02:57 |
| FIQ | did it actually work...? | 02:57 |
| ali1234 | no :) | 02:57 |
| Hurrian | the dmesg showed BB5 errors | 02:57 |
| javispedro | alterego: no, it didn't work -- I bet mtdswap scripts corrupted rootfs partition | 02:57 |
| ali1234 | was worth a try though | 02:57 |
| FIQ | oh, ok then | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: It'd be quite interesting even without cellmo | 02:58 |
| javispedro | Hurrian: that is aegis | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | And I have a n900 with a broken modem anyway :) | 02:58 |
| Hurrian | i'm guessing it's because nokia's still not using ofono for Harmattan? | 02:58 |
| Hurrian | or whatever stack CE people use | 02:58 |
| javispedro | but aegis should work without bb5 (as in qemu) -- it will just boot in open mode. | 02:58 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: indeed, I'm not against the idea, but I happen to know that some people that maybe a bit more "in the know" know it's not an easy task | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: Oh - I'm not disagreeing. | 02:59 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: I woul dbe astonished if it's simple. | 02:59 |
| alterego | cellmo was bought up | 02:59 |
| Hurrian | fun fact: N9 now has initrd. | 02:59 |
| * javispedro thinks it is probably simple to run swipe mcompositor in meegoCE, just by copying the binary... and most of the apps, in a chroot. | 02:59 | |
| alterego | Hurrian: both maemo and harmattan use telepathy ring | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: ??? | 02:59 |
| alterego | It's the firmware that'll kill cell mo functionality | 02:59 |
| Hurrian | i guess the 2M kernel size limitation was ridiculous even for Nokia | 03:00 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: what? | 03:00 |
| alterego | javispedro: ++ | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh:$@ || exec $0 $@ ??? | 03:00 |
| cehteh | keepalive script | 03:00 |
| cehteh | (simplest version) | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | *cough* | 03:00 |
| cehteh | if programm dies then restart :) | 03:00 |
| cehteh | i recommend to add a sleep 1 before restarting, in case it constantly dies | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 03:01 |
| cehteh | also i have a more elaborate version of this script meanwhile taking a few options | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | sudo keepalive false will freeze your box | 03:01 |
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| FIQ | that's a nice way to do it | 03:02 |
| javispedro | alterego: you should know that qgil posted on a TMO thread about extracting harmattan stuff to run on N900, telling them to go ask #meego-arm or f.m.c. I believe this also implicitly says Nokia is not going to pursue copyright aspects. | 03:02 |
| Hurrian | alterego , i dont feel like force flashing N950 CMT image onto N900 ;) | 03:02 |
| javispedro | giving "green" light in a sense for such a project. | 03:02 |
| GAN900 | qgil being the copyright holder and whatnot. | 03:02 |
| GAN900 | It's a trap! | 03:02 |
| ali1234 | yeah i did wonder about that | 03:03 |
| GAN900 | But, seriously, when have they ever pursued copyright issues? | 03:03 |
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| Hurrian | that would result in an instant trip to the fbus | 03:03 |
| GAN900 | They were encouraging people to mirror firmware releases in '08. | 03:03 |
| javispedro | hehe. | 03:03 |
| cehteh | http://www.pipapo.org/snippets/keepalive | 03:03 |
| alterego | Hurrian: it's the incompatibilities that'll stop it | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: you can not force flash N950 cmt fw to N900 | 03:04 |
| Hurrian | BB5 security and all | 03:04 |
| Hurrian | right? | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | right | 03:05 |
| Hurrian | yeah, had a short stint with unlocking phones a few years ago | 03:05 |
| ali1234 | how about if you extract the filesystems and build a new fiasco image from them. that should work right? | 03:05 |
| ali1234 | i mean it will flash | 03:05 |
| ali1234 | it won't "work" | 03:05 |
| ali1234 | but flasher would accept it | 03:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Is the modem actually a different modem? | 03:05 |
| Hurrian | yeah, you can use fiasco-gen to make a UBIFS image for n900 device | 03:06 |
| javispedro | it won't work, but the ebay bidders you're going to sell such a FIASCO image to won't know that!! | 03:06 |
| alterego | I'd do pieces at a time | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: good question | 03:06 |
| ali1234 | shouldn't even need to be ubifs | 03:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm. | 03:06 |
| alterego | get it to boot the rootfs first (minimal scripts) .35 kernel | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: given the fact it's pentaband UMTS id's say it's sufficiently different | 03:06 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders selling a painted n900 with upgraded firmware on ebay. | 03:06 | |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: true. | 03:06 |
| Hurrian | ali1234: i feel queasy about running ext4 on a onenand | 03:07 |
| alterego | But the whole cellular stack would need to be replaced with meego ofono .. | 03:07 |
| Hurrian | oh, are nokia going to take down the firmware servers? | 03:07 |
| ali1234 | it won't fit anyway | 03:07 |
| Hurrian | that would suxxor | 03:07 |
| alterego | The tele ring stuff in harmattan is incompatible with N900 cell mo. From what I've gathered. | 03:07 |
| Hurrian | and btw, Harmattan rootfs compressed with zlib (btrfs) is about 700 MB | 03:07 |
| Hurrian | ~3x the size of onenand | 03:08 |
| Hurrian | it's even bigger when compressed with ubifs' lzo | 03:08 |
| javispedro | harmattan uses btrfs? | 03:08 |
| ali1234 | no, it uses ext4 | 03:08 |
| alterego | Hurrian: all runs off eMMC on N950 | 03:08 |
| Hurrian | javispedro, no, just made another sd card with btrfs | 03:08 |
| javispedro | Hurrian: ah | 03:08 |
| Hurrian | if the first one worked, better see if this one boots faster | 03:08 |
| Hurrian | unfortunately, the first one made me reflash | 03:08 |
| javispedro | considering both meegoCE and harmattan have both independently chosen ext4 over btrfs.. | 03:09 |
| javispedro | (note: don't know the details behind the decision, just results) | 03:09 |
| cehteh | btrfs has still some known issues | 03:09 |
| Hurrian | cehteh ++ | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | ext4 on flash is a debatable decision indeed | 03:09 |
| Hurrian | ENOSPCs everywhere | 03:09 |
| cehteh | enospc is fixed meanwhile | 03:09 |
| Hurrian | uncleanly unmounted BTRFS FSes can KP you when mounted | 03:09 |
| Hurrian | that is a bitch | 03:09 |
| Hurrian | definitely not worth the 10 seconds of boot i save on rotating media | 03:10 |
| FIQ | ext4 w/o journal? | 03:10 |
| cehteh | but failing to write to the superblock gives a kernel panic and possibly leaves a corrupted fs behind | 03:10 |
| FIQ | or is it w/journal? | 03:10 |
| alterego | Yeah, btrfs caused a lot of problems with battery popping | 03:10 |
| cehteh | ext4 on the n900 works well for me | 03:10 |
| FIQ | because journaling FS wouldn't make sense on flash memory.. | 03:10 |
| Hurrian | ext4 without journal? wtf? | 03:10 |
| cehteh | FIQ: why that? | 03:11 |
| alterego | ext4 without journal is like, well, ext2 :P | 03:11 |
| cehteh | you need barriers and some gurantees about writes | 03:11 |
| javispedro | alterego: not really | 03:11 |
| FIQ | as you never know what order things is written on it? | 03:11 |
| Hurrian | probably the jnl should be write-balanced | 03:11 |
| cehteh | nah you still get delalloc which is quite cool | 03:11 |
| Hurrian | also, no one uses full journaling | 03:11 |
| javispedro | alterego: most of the innovation in FSs comes from algorithms, not ondisk data structures, which is why I dislike btrfs. | 03:12 |
| alterego | javispedro: is that just ext3 then? :) | 03:12 |
| cehteh | FIQ: thats more a firmware thing | 03:12 |
| cehteh | but not a flash fault per se | 03:12 |
| FIQ | ok | 03:12 |
| javispedro | alterego: so ext4 without journaling is like ext2 with extends from a ondisk structures PoV, but uises the ext4 code, so it's faster. | 03:12 |
| FIQ | then i learned something new | 03:12 |
| alterego | javispedro: ah right | 03:12 |
| cehteh | alterego: extents and delayed allocation make using ext4 favorable alone | 03:12 |
| javispedro | *extents | 03:12 |
| alterego | neay, well, g'night folks. | 03:13 |
| cehteh | then set laptop mode to 600 or such .. and you get very infrequent well ordered writes | 03:13 |
| alterego | neat .. | 03:13 |
| javispedro | cya alterego | 03:13 |
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| Parslee | sleep hard | 03:13 |
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| Hurrian | another thing to watch out for on the N950 firmware: pmconfig is SR 300-1000 | 03:23 |
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| Termana | good morning | 03:37 |
| Hurrian | morning | 03:40 |
| Parslee | hi | 03:40 |
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| javispedro | aaaaaaargh DocScrutinizer is absolutely right, the Xinput2 stuff has already changed. | 04:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | ... | 04:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Slashdot. | 04:59 |
| SpeedEvil | An ad for 'visual COBOL' | 04:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | \o/ | 04:59 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer51: and obviously the n9 way is already outdated. before shipping. yay! | 05:01 |
| MohammadAG | N9 way for what? | 05:02 |
| javispedro | for X11 multitouch events | 05:02 |
| MohammadAG | oh right, that thing has multitouch | 05:02 |
| MohammadAG | that thing should be used more tbh | 05:03 |
| MohammadAG | like, if you're gonna take resistive from us, improve the UI to use multitouch | 05:03 |
| MohammadAG | pinch to close an app in task viewer | 05:03 |
| MohammadAG | rather than hold + click | 05:03 |
| * javispedro feels déjà vu | 05:04 | |
| ieatlint | my biggest criticism with multitouch is that it requires two hands for most things | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pinch in taskswitcher is zoom | 05:04 |
| javispedro | zoom in taskswitcher? | 05:05 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, whole screen, not a thumbnail | 05:05 |
| MohammadAG | 3*3 to 2*3 | 05:05 |
| javispedro | pfft. | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mompls | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0dxk1t88LM&NR=1 you probably should watch this | 05:08 |
| javispedro | aaaaaah, so that's the quick bar. | 05:09 |
| javispedro | ta, DocScrutinizer . | 05:09 |
| javispedro | *quick launch bar. | 05:09 |
| ieatlint | it looks like they really did a good job on the UI finally | 05:13 |
| ieatlint | i wonder who designed it | 05:13 |
| javispedro | Nokia Maps is still sloooow to launch. | 05:14 |
| ieatlint | :( | 05:14 |
| ieatlint | like how long? | 05:14 |
| ieatlint | >10s? | 05:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Does anyone happen to have heard of linux drivers for the nokia DAB radio? | 05:14 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets-accessories/wired-headsets/nokia-digital-radio-headset-dab/specifications | 05:14 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: 12 seconds | 05:15 |
| ieatlint | yeah, 12 is too long. i understand the technical issues that make it take longer than google maps on iphone/android | 05:15 |
| javispedro | hum | 05:15 |
| javispedro | for some reason the Drip app starts up faster. | 05:15 |
| ieatlint | but the user doesn't care as much | 05:15 |
| javispedro | *Drive | 05:15 |
| javispedro | not drip, lol. | 05:15 |
| ieatlint | i know that if you make a QML app that uses the Map element, it'll load very quickly | 05:16 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, cause you're driving when you're expected to load it | 05:16 |
| ieatlint | an issue of loading the map engine/data | 05:16 |
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| javispedro | the presents has lots of problems to swipe despite this being a c-ts. | 05:17 |
| * javispedro spits remotely on the c-ts. | 05:17 | |
| javispedro | *the presenter | 05:17 |
| Termana | javispedro, the guy accidentally does some things that he didn't mean too and then acts like that was what he meant to do :p | 05:18 |
| MohammadAG | like in the photos app xD | 05:19 |
| javispedro | or the media app | 05:19 |
| ieatlint | i seem to do that a lot myself | 05:19 |
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| MohammadAG | yeah | 05:19 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: ability to do that and pass it off is great skill. | 05:20 |
| MohammadAG | I also love how he demoed speakers with a headset | 05:20 |
| MohammadAG | use the damn play 360 speaker so we all hear it working | 05:20 |
| javispedro | you think it works =) | 05:20 |
| javispedro | I'm sure pulseaudio crapped on itself when the drive app showed that non responding dialog | 05:20 |
| MohammadAG | nah, with 1GB of RAM, nothing can go wrong! | 05:21 |
| ieatlint | yes, nothing, ever | 05:23 |
| javispedro | cause it runs multiple copies of harmattan using vmware mobile and it switches randomly to one that works from time to time | 05:24 |
| Hurrian | with 1GB of ram+ramz, what's with swapping? | 05:24 |
| Hurrian | god damn, nokia | 05:24 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, randomly and works? wow | 05:24 |
| ieatlint | the nfc bluetooth pairing is long overdue | 05:25 |
| Hurrian | it's not running a dalvik vm with sloppy memory collection | 05:25 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: statistics say that might work. | 05:25 |
| ieatlint | the nokia 6121 back in 2007 supported it, but there pretty much were no devices | 05:25 |
| Hurrian | ieatlint BT NFC ++ | 05:25 |
| Hurrian | 10 seconds to find and pair devices? lolno | 05:25 |
| Hurrian | BT should die already, wifi direct is here to save the day | 05:25 |
| ieatlint | plus typing in bullshit pins and putting devices into sync mode... it's a pain | 05:25 |
| Parslee | nfc is new technology, how can it be overdue? | 05:26 |
| * javispedro watches the store app steal focus from the presenter | 05:26 | |
| MohammadAG | I can pair in 3 seconds | 05:26 |
| MohammadAG | the dialog takes 10 to open | 05:26 |
| Hurrian | not to mention BT fucks over wifi | 05:26 |
| ieatlint | Parslee: the standard for bluetooth pairing was finalized in 2007 | 05:26 |
| MohammadAG | ieatlint, you don't have to type codes with the N900 | 05:26 |
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| ieatlint | and nokia had a proprietary implementation of it in 2006 | 05:26 |
| MohammadAG | There's EDR or whatever | 05:26 |
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| ieatlint | so it's old :P | 05:26 |
| MohammadAG | it asks you "is the code the same" on both devices | 05:27 |
| ieatlint | MohammadAG: still annoying :P | 05:27 |
| MohammadAG | and you just click pair | 05:27 |
| MohammadAG | only works with new devices though | 05:27 |
| ieatlint | nfc bt pairing is also more intuitive | 05:29 |
| ieatlint | hold the device to the phone, done | 05:29 |
| Hurrian | gimme my wifi-direct pairing now | 05:29 |
| Hurrian | gimme it at N speeds | 05:30 |
| javispedro | and crap the battery | 05:30 |
| Hurrian | javispedro , point taken | 05:30 |
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| MohammadAG | gotta sleep, night | 05:30 |
| javispedro | me too, gnite. | 05:30 |
| Hurrian | bt isnt better for anything other than input devices | 05:30 |
| ieatlint | looking at wifi-direct... looks pretty meh | 05:30 |
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| Hurrian | at that point, we can stop at BT2.1 | 05:30 |
| Hurrian | file transfers? wifi N speeds | 05:30 |
| Hurrian | calls? wifi G speeds | 05:31 |
| ieatlint | nfc pairing makes more sense | 05:31 |
| Hurrian | nfc pairing makes so much sense | 05:31 |
| Hurrian | not just because of the pairing speed | 05:31 |
| Hurrian | i mean, you put 2 devices together, even a baby can do it | 05:31 |
| ieatlint | it's also versatile pairing, you can create an nfc tag that says "connect to this wifi network with this password, then go download this mp3 file via ftp, and then play it" | 05:32 |
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| Hurrian | ++ | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I can't see how that could be abused at all. | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | no way | 05:32 |
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| Hurrian | speedevil, prank time | 05:33 |
| ieatlint | SpeedEvil: all implementations have prompts on the device | 05:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | cool concept | 05:33 |
| ieatlint | so if you can get your friend to start pressing ok a lot.. | 05:33 |
| SpeedEvil | ieatlint: Targeted exploits | 05:33 |
| Hurrian | hmm, NFC placemat time ;) | 05:33 |
| Hurrian | >trollface.png | 05:33 |
| Hurrian | one-touch jailbreaks and one-touch rm -rf? | 05:33 |
| Hurrian | that's great | 05:33 |
| ieatlint | eh, yeah, it's not foolproof | 05:33 |
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| ieatlint | but for the step i mentioned above, there would be a prompt to pair with the network, a prompt to download the file and a prompt to play it | 05:34 |
| Hurrian | "tap your phone on this pad to get free lady gaga music!" | 05:34 |
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| ieatlint | that's 3 OK buttons they have to ignore | 05:34 |
| Hurrian | "press yes when prompted!" | 05:34 |
| Hurrian | totally foolprof, guise | 05:34 |
| Hurrian | social engineering IRL | 05:34 |
| ieatlint | that kind of exploit exists without nfc | 05:35 |
| Hurrian | ieatlint: nfc makes it easier | 05:35 |
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| Hurrian | instead of making a user click on cryptic shit | 05:35 |
| Hurrian | that they dont know what it does | 05:35 |
| SpeedEvil | qrcode | 05:35 |
| Hurrian | they use nfc, which they know can be used to transfer files n shit | 05:35 |
| ieatlint | nfc is a bad idea to transfer real data | 05:36 |
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| Hurrian | speedevil - takes a few seconds to focus | 05:36 |
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| ieatlint | you'll typically get from 100kbit to 400kbit (most often 100-200) | 05:36 |
| Hurrian | and you're screwed when you dont have good lighting | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | you know of that (back when) IRDA billboard poster wall, that told users "hold your device here to join the competition for the holiday", and then made the user's phones send an sms and downloaded all the contacts from his phonebook? | 05:36 |
| Hurrian | as said, nfc for quick setup (hmm, tap here for wifi setup) instead of entering a long-ass code | 05:37 |
| Hurrian | goodbye AOSS | 05:37 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's awesome | 05:37 |
| ieatlint | the SMS part exists with nfc (with a user prompt), but the downloading of the phone book doesn't | 05:38 |
| Hurrian | in before bugged NFC software | 05:38 |
| ieatlint | unless you manage get the phone to install an app that steals it | 05:38 |
| Hurrian | it's probably not in the protocol, it's probably in the firmware | 05:39 |
| ieatlint | definitely possible | 05:39 |
| Hurrian | "this only affects certain models of android smartphones made by $GENERIC_DROID_MAKER" | 05:39 |
| ieatlint | nah, that's not likely... it would almost definitely be part of the higher nfc stack | 05:40 |
| Hurrian | hmm, OTA seems to make sense now | 05:40 |
| ieatlint | shame the n950 lacks nfc :( | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I find it a bit funny the N9 has dolby acme whatnot, but only one speaker | 05:43 |
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| Termana | DocScrutinizer: 2 speakers | 05:44 |
| Termana | one is hidden | 05:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh | 05:44 |
| Termana | That's what a couple of Nokia reps have said anyway | 05:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | [citation needed] | 05:45 |
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| Parslee | will nokia prrovide more than 250 n950s? | 05:59 |
| ieatlint | via the oss/community handout? unlikely.. | 06:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd say at a few more meego events isn't unlikely | 06:02 |
| Parslee | how many people have applied? | 06:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Around 600 for the 250 | 06:03 |
| ieatlint | yeah, we all heard about the finland meego meetup handing them out to everyone | 06:03 |
| ieatlint | there's a meetup out here coming up in mid july... i bet there will be some there, but i doubt they'll hand them to everyone | 06:04 |
| Parslee | I would like to buy one | 06:05 |
| ieatlint | good luck with that | 06:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Very unlikely to happen. | 06:05 |
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| ieatlint | nah, there will be some that go up for sale.. but none legally | 06:05 |
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| ieatlint | any n950s on sale are officially stolen property, as nokia is only loaning devices | 06:06 |
| ieatlint | there is already a seller on ebay claiming he has some that will ship in august | 06:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmmm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZckJ4BUnI&NR=1 | 06:28 |
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| jonwil | Must figure out how to distil the useful bits from yesterdays mammoth effort into a wiki entry or something :P | 06:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 06:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | back to normal? | 06:31 |
| jonwil | My phone is working now, need to reinstall apps | 06:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | i c | 06:32 |
| jonwil | and need to restore any settings that were stored on /opt or on rootfs | 06:32 |
| jonwil | I kept my emmc | 06:32 |
| jonwil | but had to reflash my rootfs after backing it up with maemo | 06:32 |
| jonwil | I think it would also be useful to see about getting usb networking more fully working on the rescue initrd as well as getting a few more tools such as mtd-tools and things for accessing the NAND | 06:33 |
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| jonwil | having access to the NAND plus say a simple network protocol like netcat, telnet, tftp or whatever would be very helpful for others in the same situation as me | 06:34 |
| jonwil | i.e. anyone who just needs to mount their NAND and fix a problem | 06:34 |
| jonwil | right now though I need to finish restoring my phone :) | 06:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: in fact rescue-initrd as is is rather useless | 06:35 |
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| jonwil | I wonder if I need to do anything special to get backupmanager installed | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, just install | 06:40 |
| jonwil | do I install though ham or through something else? | 06:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | via HAM! | 06:40 |
| jonwil | ok, great | 06:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh, and forget the liked wikipage, seems terribly outdated | 06:41 |
| jonwil | thinking about it though, if I had thought more clearly I might have been able to save my rootfs with a bit more work. But given that it was already 2am and I was so damn tired, I sort of gave up, backed it up and reflashed :P | 06:43 |
| jonwil | once my phone is back to normal and suitable recovery options are installed, I can then go back to figuring out how to get dbus-monitor to display the dbus signals I want it to display :) | 06:45 |
| jonwil | the ones sent between mce and systemui | 06:46 |
| jonwil | once I can see those signals, I can do what I was trying to do in the first place and post some documentation on how the tklock systemui plugin works | 06:47 |
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| robbiethe1st | Ok, guys. I've got a problem I need to troubleshoot. | 06:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | Have you tried turning it off and on again? | 06:50 |
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| robbiethe1st | I was trying to add terminal support to backupmenu, and loaded the following modules: fbcon, font, bitblit, and softcursor.ko, then added them to my BM startup script. When I shut down maemo afterwards, I saw a console after x shut down. Booting into backupmenu also worked; I saw the console correctly. But, attempting to boot back into maemo resulted in a boot-loop: nokia screen, black, etc. | 06:52 |
| robbiethe1st | Not the 5-dots loop, just nokia screen. | 06:52 |
| robbiethe1st | Now, I have a recovery console open on the device, so I can mess with it. | 06:53 |
| robbiethe1st | But I don't know what to check. Any pointers for debugging? | 06:53 |
| ieatlint | SpeedEvil: don't mix those two steps up or it really won't work | 06:53 |
| SpeedEvil | robbiethe1st: Remove all from your script, and add them back one by one? | 06:54 |
| robbiethe1st | I did. I commented them all out, rebooted into BM, then rebooted... same deal. | 06:54 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 06:55 |
| robbiethe1st | cat /proc/bootreason gives 'sw_rst' | 06:56 |
| SpeedEvil | watchdog | 06:56 |
| robbiethe1st | It seemed a bit to quick for that... | 06:56 |
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| robbiethe1st | Usuallly, it takes ~60 seconds. this takes ~15 pre cycle | 06:56 |
| robbiethe1st | (60 seconds for watchdog reboot) | 06:56 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 06:57 |
| SpeedEvil | That's about the 'normal' boot time - when it boots but doesn't decide to go on | 06:57 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea; I | 06:57 |
| robbiethe1st | I'd expect the 5 dots after that, but instead just reboot | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, and you didn't maybe add those *.ko to any /etc/modules or whatever file? | 06:58 |
| robbiethe1st | could running 'insmod /path/to/module' have put in any permanent entry? | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno, didn't think so | 06:58 |
| robbiethe1st | I didn't manually add them to anything but my BM file. | 06:59 |
| robbiethe1st | and commented them out. | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, cannot be | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw you say you have a console now, so obviously right now they are not commented out | 06:59 |
| robbiethe1st | No; Not on the phone. I've got a remote console over USB | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | make a backup of your backup ;-D, then completely replace with a former backup | 07:01 |
| jonwil | I think I found the one thing you cant do on a N900 without connecting it to a PC. Updating the Nokia Maps maps :) | 07:01 |
| robbiethe1st | (also, running those modules just gives a 'background' console with basically the kernel log - I haven't been able to get an *interactive* terminal yet) | 07:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | make sure it boots | 07:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | compare backup-of-broken with current working | 07:01 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea, I can try that... | 07:01 |
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| robbiethe1st | Hm... is there a way to enable boot logging to disk? | 07:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | how would I find the diskusage of all inodes (dirs) and files with links=1, of a dir tree copied with cp -al ? | 07:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: I think syslogd pkg will do that for you, eventuallly copying dmesg buffer to var/log/syslog on start of syslogd | 07:09 |
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| robbiethe1st | Might be useful, hm... isn't there a partition on the NAND flash that's for kernel logs? | 07:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, only for paniks | 07:10 |
| robbiethe1st | Hm, still might be useful | 07:10 |
| robbiethe1st | what's the dev file? | 07:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | check proc/mtd | 07:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | /dev/mtd4 or whatever | 07:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | mtd2 | 07:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 4 is unusaed ;-) | 07:13 |
| robbiethe1st | Hm... mtd2 has plenty of logs in it | 07:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cat /dev/mtd2ro | less | 07:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno, maybe it logs all the time | 07:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | doubt it though, as first thing I saw was a panic register dump ;-P | 07:15 |
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| robbiethe1st | http://pastebin.com/DaQhYitC | 07:17 |
| robbiethe1st | that's the last one in it | 07:17 |
| robbiethe1st | http://pastebin.com/k21jiCBX actually, that's better | 07:18 |
| robbiethe1st | So... provided I have two different system image tar archives, how do I diff them? | 07:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmmm | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno, is there a tardiff? | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | diffing tar file to original is simple | 07:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc tar supports that | 07:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | diffing a tar file against another... no clue. maybe I'm too tired | 07:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems teh first one you linked dies in hildon-welcome | 07:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | and pastebin.com starts to nag | 07:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | already too much ad crap | 07:27 |
| robbiethe1st | noscript is your friend | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O sounds like some weird FF extension that I just kill with disabling js and/or modules in Konqueror | 07:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | o.O sounds like some weird FF extension that I just kill with disabling js and/or modules in Konqueror | 07:31 |
| * DocScrutinizer waves | 07:32 | |
| robbiethe1st | NoScript? Nah, it's more than that. It allows selective disabling/enabling(by site, or 3rd-party/first party etc) of scripts, as well as media files and such | 07:32 |
| robbiethe1st | I use it *mostly* for it's ability to block flash and other applets until I decide to run it(by clicking on the applet) | 07:32 |
| robbiethe1st | blocking ad-scripts is just a plus ;) | 07:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | (tar) mc can navigate archives as if they were plain fs | 07:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | can also compare, but not recursively | 07:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | or can it? | 07:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah - find but not compare afaik | 07:38 |
| jonwil | I cant find backupmanager in HAM | 07:39 |
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| jonwil | where is it and whats it called? | 07:39 |
| jonwil | And do I need to enable any repos for it? | 07:39 |
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| psycho_oreos | it might be in extras-{testing,devel} | 07:42 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: still awake? | 07:42 |
| psycho_oreos | you mean the one by robbiethe1st? | 07:42 |
| jonwil | yes | 07:43 |
| jonwil | that one | 07:43 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah I remember seeing it in extras-devel but it might also be in extras-testing. I have extras-devel enabled constantly however | 07:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | backupmenu devel | 07:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | just installed the update | 07:46 |
| robbiethe1st | :D | 07:49 |
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| hiemanshu | now people are guessing how long the N950 will be loaned for | 07:55 |
| robbiethe1st | BRB | 07:56 |
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| jonwil | ok, my phone is up and running again. YAY. | 08:31 |
| robbiethe1st | Hm, looks like there was a problem in the kernel partition. I was *not* able to do a restore as I couldn't mount the MyDocs partition, which I couldn't do because the vfat module wouldn't load. I tried restoring rootfs back to a known-good one, same issue. Flashed the kernel, and I was then able to restore | 08:34 |
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| robbiethe1st | *phew*. Working again. | 08:39 |
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| macmaN | robbiethe1st: um, smth to do with backupmenu? | 08:42 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea. I've been trying to get a console working. I managed something of the sort, but it wouldn't boot up into maemo after that, and a whole lot of weird stuff happened | 08:43 |
| robbiethe1st | looks like some bit got flipped in the kernel partiton | 08:43 |
| macmaN | oh ok | 08:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Shit | 08:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Going away party for a friend. | 08:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Joining the Air Force. | 08:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody decided to fill my 8 oz Dixie Cup mostly full of Merlot. . . . | 08:47 |
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| robbiethe1st | Nice! I've got ~460 installs of Backupmenu 1.0-RC1 in the last two days. | 08:48 |
| jonwil | Nice one, you can count me as one of those installs :) | 08:48 |
| jonwil | I just installed it | 08:48 |
| robbiethe1st | cool | 08:49 |
| jonwil | a terminal sounds good also btw | 08:49 |
| jonwil | if you can make it happen | 08:49 |
| robbiethe1st | I know. I've been trying off and on for *months*. Unfortunately, stock kernel doesn't have a framebuffer, so no console. | 08:49 |
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| robbiethe1st | I just learned that power-kernel, however, has a framebuffer module. Perfect! | 08:50 |
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| jonwil | there is a kernel I used yesterday in fixing things that was basically stock kernel + framebuffer | 08:51 |
| jonwil | just as long as power-kernel isnt required for backupmenu... | 08:51 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea, I've used it too. But I don't really want to force everyone to use that | 08:51 |
| robbiethe1st | No, it'll be optional | 08:51 |
| jonwil | so it will only be needed for the terminal? | 08:51 |
| robbiethe1st | Yup | 08:51 |
| jonwil | ok | 08:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, you get a friends circle and not just MeeGo. :P | 08:51 |
| rm_you | :P | 08:52 |
| rm_you | lol | 08:52 |
| rm_you | cool | 08:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, also, my friend has the exact same damn couch. | 08:52 |
| rm_you | forget where i put you :P | 08:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | (the bastard who filled me with wine) | 08:52 |
| robbiethe1st | In fact, I have to make sure to disable it when the console is *not* running, else it screws up all the text otherwise, overwriting bits of my interface | 08:52 |
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| jonwil | ok | 08:52 |
| jonwil | sounds good | 08:52 |
| * jonwil wishes there were more games for the N900 that suited the N900. Lots of the games in extras dont really suit the N900 | 08:53 | |
| jonwil | like openttd for example, its more of a desktop game | 08:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, circles are too much pressure. | 08:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I can see the advantage to Facebook's "Friends". | 08:53 |
| * robbiethe1st doesn't like either | 08:54 | |
| * jonwil hates facebook | 08:54 | |
| macmaN | lockerproject ftw | 08:54 |
| robbiethe1st | Facebook, well, I'll never visit it voluntarily. | 08:54 |
| jonwil | anyone here got any suggestions for good suitable n900 games to play when on the bus or etc? | 08:54 |
| robbiethe1st | To be honest, I found some of those old point-and-click adventures on ScummVM to be perfect | 08:55 |
| robbiethe1st | Like, say, Legend of Kyrandia | 08:55 |
| robbiethe1st | Graphics look great, audio works, and it runs ~500mhz | 08:55 |
| jonwil | Things like Space Quest would be too hard with all the typing | 08:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | jonwil, deleted my account a couple years ago. | 08:55 |
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| jonwil | but something like Day Of The Tentacle would be perfect | 08:56 |
| jonwil | I have the game files for that somewhere | 08:56 |
| jonwil | and I believe it runs on scummvm just fine | 08:56 |
| jonwil | will have to look through the scummvm supported games list for some ideas | 08:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | jonwil, talk to Fanoush if he's still around. | 08:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ported ScummVM to OS2007/OS2008. | 08:57 |
| jonwil | Also, if anyone knows how to get dbus-monitor to dump the signals being sent from mce to systemui (specifically the tklock_open and tklock_close signals) that would be great | 08:58 |
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| jonwil | not signals, method calls | 08:58 |
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| jonwil | after what happened when I tried to enable dbus eavesdropping in the hope that would let me listen to them, I dont wanna go messing with dbus again | 09:01 |
| jonwil | The MCE source code from meego/harmattan helps a little but there are too many changes between Fremantle MCE and Harmattan/MeeGo MCE to give me the whole story | 09:03 |
| jonwil | so unless I get a Fremantle version of tklock.c or the relavent info, getting a dbus dump is the only answer :P | 09:03 |
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| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: put you in Maemo AND Friends, seeing what happens with you in TWO circles ;P | 09:23 |
| rm_you | you're the first I've done that way | 09:23 |
| rm_you | i think that this is actually SUPER useful | 09:23 |
| rm_you | no more sharing crap to EVERYONE when I know exactly what subsets of people will care | 09:23 |
| GAN900 | They were encouraging people to mirror firmware releases in '08. | 09:28 |
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| GAN900 | lol | 09:28 |
| GAN900 | Damn mistype. | 09:28 |
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| cloudyLights | morning | 10:22 |
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| RST38h | moorning. | 10:22 |
| cloudyLights | ok, so I emailed qgil , in hope to still get a "n9 dev kit" | 10:22 |
| ieatlint | use threatening language | 10:22 |
| ieatlint | it worked for me | 10:23 |
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| macmaN | finish every sentence with ", or else..." | 10:25 |
| macmaN | ? | 10:25 |
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| ieatlint | no, i told him "or else i'll switch to windows phone 7" | 10:26 |
| hiemanshu | macmaN: naah, just tell him 'give me a N950, or I'll find you and murder you and take everything own, and leave you to die' | 10:26 |
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| robbiethe1st | Switching to WP7's worse... | 10:29 |
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| ieatlint | yeah, the threat worked | 10:30 |
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| * Sicelo makes up his mind to buy N900 after all, at USD490 | 10:46 | |
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| jacekowski | Sickki: bit late now | 10:47 |
| dm8tbr | Sicelo: that sounds expensive, is it new? | 10:48 |
| Sicelo | yes dm8tbr | 10:48 |
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| * dm8tbr bought his for 230 € | 10:49 | |
| dm8tbr | ah, well in monopoly moniez that's also 330, so not that much off and it was used | 10:50 |
| Sicelo | i guess so jacekowski. but N9, when it becomes available, will be beyond my means, i guess... so i'll afford it 2 years after it sells first time :P | 10:50 |
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| hiemanshu | Sicelo: you mean after it is dead and buried? | 10:53 |
| hiemanshu | I wouldn't mind getting another N900 really though | 10:53 |
| Sicelo | :D | 10:53 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: As javispedro said, it was kind of a joke. Not much of a joke, but kind of one. | 10:57 |
| Sicelo | i always seem to be using ancient devices... had my N-Gage in 2008 May, Nokia 9300i September 2009 | 10:57 |
| hiemanshu | I wouldn't mind an N-Gage really | 10:58 |
| Sicelo | i bricked the first one.. but bought a second one.. still have it :p | 10:59 |
| hiemanshu | its a pretty decent devvice | 11:00 |
| Sicelo | true that | 11:04 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Ah | 11:05 |
| * RST38h - dumb | 11:05 | |
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| kerio | my 6120c still works perfectly | 11:25 |
| kerio | and it's still a kickass phone | 11:25 |
| kerio | imo better than the n95 | 11:25 |
| macmaN | in finland aftermarket n900 go for 150EURish | 11:27 |
| kerio | i'd buy like 6 | 11:28 |
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| Termana | >6120c | 11:36 |
| Termana | >kickass phone | 11:36 |
| Termana | >I lol'ed | 11:36 |
| kerio | Termana: haters gonna hate | 11:38 |
| kerio | what's the problem with it? | 11:38 |
| dm8tbr | my first own phone was a 6150 <3 | 11:41 |
| hiemanshu | first phone with my own money was a 5800XM, bought it two days after the release | 11:42 |
| ieatlint | it occurs to me, that thanks to nokia phones, i own more fm radios now than at any other point in my life | 11:45 |
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| kerio | ieatlint: it doesn't make them useful, sadly | 11:47 |
| ieatlint | yeah, especially with the headset requirement :( | 11:47 |
| kerio | you own a lot of fm tuners | 11:48 |
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| ieatlint | 7, in fact | 11:48 |
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| ieatlint | i wish the phone would let me use the radio without a headset... i fully realize that it acts as an antenna | 11:50 |
| ieatlint | but i also am very aware that it is not always required if the signal is strong enough | 11:50 |
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| robbiethe1st | ieatlint: It's possible, with a 3rd-party app, IIRC | 11:56 |
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| dm8tbr | I've seen cut off headphone cable as antenna :) | 12:04 |
| dm8tbr | just enough to enable reception | 12:04 |
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| achipa | ieatlint: if you don't have an antenna (=just the PCB trace and the jack) the signal would have to be REALLY strong | 12:28 |
| achipa | as in "standing next to the radio tower" :) | 12:28 |
| ieatlint | i hang out in unusual places | 12:31 |
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| * RST38h moos | 12:39 | |
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| MohammadAG | morning | 12:57 |
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| * alterego yawns | 13:00 | |
| * RST38h throws a wrench into alterego's mouth | 13:01 | |
| RST38h | Sparks! SPARKS!!! | 13:01 |
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| alterego | Heh | 13:02 |
| BCMM | the apt-worker.real process spawned by HAM is only sometimes nice some of the time. WTF? | 13:05 |
| BCMM | s/sometime// | 13:06 |
| infobot | BCMM meant: the apt-worker.real process spawned by HAM is only s nice some of the time. WTF? | 13:06 |
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| jonwil | bah, still cant get dbus-monitor to show me what I want to see :( | 13:14 |
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| * alterego yawns | 13:19 | |
| alterego | vme groans | 13:19 |
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| alterego | urgh | 13:19 |
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| alterego | Actually, feeling a lot better now after those crumpets. | 13:19 |
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| Jaffa | Bah, meego-terminal doesn't seem to support multiple instances. Even when launched from the command line, with a custom command, it just brings an existing one to the front. | 13:22 |
| alterego | Lame | 13:23 |
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| alterego | Well, it's FOSS Jaffa ;) | 13:23 |
| alterego | I think that's because of all the prestarting in Harmattan | 13:24 |
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| alterego | You might not even have to modify the code, just update the .desktop file | 13:24 |
| alterego | Jaffa: could you pastie.org /etc/prestart.d/nokia.conf ? | 13:25 |
| Termana | alterego, mmm crumpets sounds nice :p | 13:25 |
| alterego | And /usr/share/wtf/meego-terminal.desktop ;) | 13:25 |
| alterego | Termana: yup, with a bit of cheese on the top :d | 13:25 |
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| Jaffa | alterego: http://pastie.org/2157826 | 13:27 |
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| Termana | :| stupid cat jumped down and took me offline :p | 13:28 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, package in the post | 13:28 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder if that's the N950 :o | 13:28 |
| Termana | MohammadAG, in your dreams | 13:28 |
| Termana | :p | 13:28 |
| Jaffa | alterego: http://pastie.org/2157830 | 13:28 |
| alterego | Oh well, no prestarting there. | 13:29 |
| alterego | Must have it's own dbus crap | 13:29 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Something to do with MApplicationService: | 13:31 |
| Jaffa | MApplicationService: Calling launch() in other application with service : "com.nokia.meego-terminal" | 13:31 |
| MohammadAG | Termana, meh, bills | 13:31 |
| alterego | Jaffa: yeah, that's how prestart works :/ | 13:32 |
| alterego | I think that may be one of my first mods then, multiple terminal windows ;) | 13:34 |
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| Jaffa | alterego: +1 | 13:36 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Would be nice to have a nice launcher icon for vim, without having to do my own frontend | 13:37 |
| alterego | Okay | 13:37 |
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| alterego | I'll have a look at it later, I've already got all the sources and I can test on MeeGo CE | 13:37 |
| Jaffa | Ta | 13:38 |
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| RST38h | BTW, I have got a local OBS install, is there a Harmattan SDK for this kind of install? | 13:40 |
| hiemanshu | gah $.9 Amazon bill | 13:40 |
| RST38h | Or is there one for the standard SB setup? | 13:40 |
| alterego | RST38h: not yet, Harmattan OBS is being worked on though :) | 13:40 |
| alterego | RST38h: the default is Scratchbox yes | 13:40 |
| alterego | There's also a experimental QtSDK with Harmattan support. | 13:41 |
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| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: http://bit.ly/mlL4uJ | 13:41 |
| RST38h | alterego: Is there one for SB2? ;))) | 13:42 |
| alterego | No :P | 13:42 |
| RST38h | Eh | 13:43 |
| alterego | I'm really looking forward to harmattan obs | 13:43 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: the package will be from DHL :D | 13:43 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: alterego: X-Fade is quite close with the Harmattan in OBS, I think | 13:44 |
| MohammadAG | hiemanshu, I know, already got something from them :P | 13:45 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: what? | 13:45 |
| MohammadAG | N900 | 13:45 |
| hiemanshu | ah | 13:45 |
| alterego | Jaffa: yes, that"s what I understand :) | 13:45 |
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| alterego | Hopefully within the region of a couple of weeks. | 13:45 |
| Jaffa | Hopefully within the region of a couple of days. | 13:46 |
| alterego | Heh | 13:46 |
| Jaffa | He's already built a package, but the build's full of warnings | 13:46 |
| alterego | I'm not in a rush | 13:46 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: so I have a problem with multiboot, it wont boot nitdroid, what can I do? | 13:46 |
| gri | will harmattan get a branch (?) on maemo-extras(-devel)? | 13:46 |
| Jaffa | Bah, moving 500GB using tar between two SATA drives shouldn't be so slow. | 13:46 |
| Jaffa | gri: No, it won't work like that. | 13:46 |
| gri | I meant an opensource non-ovi repository? | 13:47 |
| Jaffa | gri: You'll have "home" projects which are repositories equivalent to (lots of) Extra-devels, and then people can promote from their to a -testing repo. After crowdsourced QA, it'll then be in apps.meego.com | 13:47 |
| Jaffa | gri: In that case, yes. | 13:47 |
| MohammadAG | hiemanshu, get rid of nitdroid | 13:47 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 13:48 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: no but android > * | 13:48 |
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| MohammadAG | hiemanshu, ... | 13:48 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: just trolling (see /topic :P) | 13:49 |
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| vi__ | yo | 13:50 |
| Parslee | gi | 13:50 |
| vi__ | where can I find actual info on adding/removing calander events (todo's) via dbus? | 13:50 |
| vi__ | There are some subtle referaces to it around the net but no actual concrete info | 13:51 |
| MohammadAG | dbus-monitor --session and add an event | 13:51 |
| vi__ | MohammadAG: but the calendar app doesnt create dbus messages for itself... | 13:52 |
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| MohammadAG | vi__, you sure about that? | 13:54 |
| vi__ | or alternativly does anyone know how to use the 'calendarclt' program in a non interactive way? | 13:54 |
| vi__ | or maybe it was because I was running dbus-monitor on the wrong computer... | 13:55 |
| vi__ | -_- | 13:55 |
| MohammadAG | the calendar UI talks to a backend which runs separately | 13:55 |
| MohammadAG | the only way to do that is DBus | 13:55 |
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| vi__ | yeah, I ran montor on the wrong screen session, saw nothing. doh! | 13:56 |
| vi__ | I see somthing now | 13:56 |
| vi__ | so I see a message: | 13:59 |
| vi__ | signal sender=:1.456 -> dest=(null destination) serial=50 path=/com/nokia/calendar; interface=com.nokia.calendar; member=dbChange string "CALENDAR-UI:1:TODO:ADDED:1:76," string "CALENDAR-UI" | 14:00 |
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| vi__ | which indicates which calander, entry into database and action being performed | 14:01 |
| vi__ | however where is the data? | 14:01 |
| vi__ | how can I use this in a shell script to add/remove items? | 14:01 |
| vi__ | what must I read to learn? | 14:01 |
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| vi__ | MohammadAG: where is the actual data the dbus message refers too? | 14:07 |
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| Hurrian | so, any brave soul tried running the N9/50 UX on MeeGo CE? | 14:14 |
| * gri copied the theme but then there was no way to get out of applications since there was no swipe and close button :( | 14:16 | |
| dm8tbr | i doubt that would work | 14:16 |
| alterego | Yeah, you'd need all the meegotouchhome stuff they have. | 14:17 |
| MohammadAG | it should, copy all needed libs and binaries and it should wor | 14:17 |
| MohammadAG | k | 14:17 |
| MohammadAG | vi__, not sure, you may have to query the calendar backend for that | 14:18 |
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| vi__ | MohammadAG: how do you mean? | 14:20 |
| dm8tbr | MohammadAG: well all needed libs could be a lot and if one of them conflicts with one in real MeeGo 1.2 then you're screwed | 14:20 |
| Hurrian | dm8tbr - it shouldnt | 14:20 |
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| Hurrian | unless nokia made stupid shit like patching libs again | 14:20 |
| alterego | I'm sure it wouldn't be too much trouble to create a small meego arm image and put the harmattan overlay on top of it tbh | 14:21 |
| alterego | You'd have to use the meego dialer though | 14:21 |
| Hurrian | hmm, meego with DEB instead of RPM? | 14:21 |
| alterego | And sms etc. | 14:21 |
| alterego | No | 14:21 |
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| Hurrian | in before mass alien-ing | 14:21 |
| alterego | You'd need to unpack them | 14:22 |
| MohammadAG | Hurrian, dm8tbr afaik MeeGo and Harmattan are ABI compatible | 14:22 |
| MohammadAG | <alterego> I'm sure it wouldn't be too much trouble to create a small meego arm image and put the harmattan overlay on top of it tbh | 14:22 |
| dm8tbr | Hurrian: it shouldn't yes, doesn't mean it isn't so | 14:22 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, till Nokia Legal hears about it | 14:22 |
| vi__ | the n9/50 really was a genius move, by releasing this essentially worthless dead end piece of shite they have finally managed to remove the most usefull people from maemo onto somthing irrelevant. Now the n900 can finally be put to death. | 14:22 |
| Hurrian | they should be ABI-compatible, if nokia's billing it as a meego instance | 14:23 |
| MohammadAG | vi__, bullshit | 14:23 |
| dm8tbr | Hurrian: let's hope it is | 14:23 |
| MohammadAG | the N900 won't die | 14:23 |
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| MohammadAG | it is ABI compatible | 14:23 |
| Parslee | N900 has no competition :( | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: To a degree, yes. | 14:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | But one could argue that the effort going into porting applications to QML/... is 'wasted', looking at it from the maemo side. | 14:25 |
| Hurrian | the N900 has no competition unless you go aava | 14:26 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: why? QML is the commn denominator here. | 14:26 |
| Hurrian | and those aava devices are expensive as **** | 14:26 |
| alterego | Hurrian: those aava devices are worthless | 14:27 |
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| alterego | They have utter rubbish battery life .. | 14:27 |
| Hurrian | >Intel x86 CPU | 14:28 |
| Hurrian | about right | 14:28 |
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| alterego | So the only competition for N900 is N950, which is superior except for no micro sd slot and smaller eMMC mass memory | 14:28 |
| alterego | So my N900 will still be in my pocket when I get an N950 | 14:29 |
| Hurrian | alterego , not really competition then | 14:29 |
| Hurrian | USB ports can be replaced and upgraded | 14:29 |
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| Hurrian | flex cables the same | 14:29 |
| Hurrian | so do batteries | 14:29 |
| Hurrian | if the N900 supports SDXC | 14:30 |
| Hurrian | ...still the reigning mobile storage king. | 14:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | alterego: I mean that if a dev has been developing not using Qt - then the effort in porting takes their time. | 14:30 |
| alterego | Well, until the 64G N9 comes out, but still lack of memory card slot is mildly annoying | 14:31 |
| SpeedEvil | And I'm not saying that porting to Qt is pointless in the long run - and this'd have happened anyway with the n9 coming round the corner | 14:31 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: sure, Coboy is a prime example. | 14:31 |
| Hurrian | alterego, we have 32GB EMMC + 32GB uSD + 256MB OneNAND | 14:31 |
| alterego | Conboy .. | 14:31 |
| Jaffa | SpeedEvil: By porting Hermes to QML & Qt, I can run it on Maemo 5, Symbian, MeeGo & Harmattan. | 14:31 |
| alterego | I have 4 and 8 GB micro sds .. so :) | 14:31 |
| Jaffa | That's a bit of a win. | 14:31 |
| Hurrian | okay, so it's stupid to use onenand for storage, but still | 14:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: Indeed. | 14:32 |
| Hurrian | speedevil, Qt is useful when you're coding userland apps | 14:32 |
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| Hurrian | see example above | 14:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: Or that porting to QML/Qt doesn't have benefits - but I was meaning in the short term. | 14:32 |
| Jaffa | Admittedly, it'd be useful if I could boot into my desktop's disk and this disk shuffling was complete. | 14:32 |
| Hurrian | Jaffa: looking forward to that Hermes QML rewrite ;) | 14:32 |
| Hurrian | right now, i just finished reflashing, and it hangs on pressing "authenticate" | 14:33 |
| Hurrian | but that's for another time | 14:33 |
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| * SpeedEvil is trying to get up the energy to learn more about the n950/n9. | 14:35 | |
| SpeedEvil | And qt/qml | 14:35 |
| vi__ | do any of you chaps know of somthing I can use to add todo's to my calendar through the command line? | 14:35 |
| ieatlint | do you have any programming knowledge already? | 14:35 |
| hiemanshu | I am going to use QML only for the UI part, all backend code will be in C++, not going to learn JS | 14:36 |
| Termana | QML is really crap, but really nice at the same time. | 14:36 |
| * ieatlint agrees with Termana | 14:37 | |
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| SpeedEvil | Termana: yeah - what I've looked at so far looked a bit 'teletubbies do UI' - but still quite cool. | 14:37 |
| ieatlint | it's half-baked | 14:37 |
| ieatlint | and god help you if you want to transfer more than strings or integers between qt and qml | 14:37 |
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| RST38h | Moo VDVsx | 14:55 |
| alterego | ieatlint: why? I transfer all sorts of things, anything registered with QVariant, QObjects etc. | 14:57 |
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| rcg | Termana: lol.. sounds a bit like javafx | 14:58 |
| rcg | at least that "really crap, but really nice at the same time" part | 14:58 |
| alterego | And I wouldn't say "half baked" there's certainly a lot that can be done with it to make it better, but it works now pretty well imo | 14:59 |
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| vi__ | in this statement: | 15:09 |
| vi__ | Insert into Components (CalendarId, ComponentType, Flags, DateStart, DateEnd, Summary, Status, AllDay, Until, CreatedTime, ModifiedTime, Tzid, TzOffset) VALUES (1, 2, -1, 1294095600, -1, 'Test Insert Todo Non valide', 0, -1,0,1294087227,1294144124,'Europe/Paris',3600); | 15:09 |
| vi__ | 1294095600 represents the datestart | 15:10 |
| vi__ | can somone explain the numbers to me? | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | seconds after midnight Jan 1 1970 | 15:10 |
| vi__ | which numbers represent minutes/hours etc | 15:10 |
| vi__ | OMG | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | google unix epoch | 15:10 |
| vi__ | EQUINOX FAIL | 15:10 |
| vi__ | ffs | 15:10 |
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| vi__ | how do I insert values strait into sqlite3 db from bash? | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | you can script 'sqlite3' | 15:12 |
| vi__ | I have a plan coming together | 15:14 |
| vi__ | however its gonna get ugly | 15:14 |
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| * RST38h heyas javispedro | 15:22 | |
| javispedro | 250-ehlo | 15:23 |
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| alterego | Hey lbt | 15:30 |
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| * RST38h automated this cough-inducing Android build to the gills | 15:35 | |
| lbt | alterego: hi | 15:36 |
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| Jaffa | woo, lbt | 15:41 |
| lbt | hey Jaffa | 15:41 |
| alterego | So Jaffa, has the N950 replaced your N900 or N8? /me chuckles. | 15:42 |
| javispedro | without google talk? | 15:42 |
| lbt | have any arrived yet? | 15:42 |
| lbt | community ones that is | 15:42 |
| javispedro | Jaffa's. | 15:42 |
| alterego | Yeah, Jaffa had a valid launchpad account already, so .. :) | 15:43 |
| alterego | He'sa luck biatch | 15:43 |
| Jaffa | alterego: I'm using it as my primary device instead of my N900 | 15:43 |
| Jaffa | alterego: But lack of Google Talk, given it's my primary IM mechanism, is annoyingv | 15:43 |
| lbt | ouch | 15:43 |
| alterego | I thought it had google talk | 15:43 |
| macmaN | Jaffa: ssh -> irssi ftw :> | 15:43 |
| alterego | Heh | 15:44 |
| dm8tbr | no XMPP? yuck! | 15:44 |
| dm8tbr | major yuck! | 15:44 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Apparently later images do; but this is also not indicative of release images. | 15:44 |
| macmaN | well ssh -> bitlbee + irssi | 15:44 |
| Jaffa | At least swipe.nokia.com says there'll be Twitter in the news feed | 15:44 |
| petteri | irssi-xmpp :) | 15:44 |
| Jaffa | macmaN: bitlbee? | 15:44 |
| lbt | true - early days yet | 15:44 |
| * dm8tbr uses xmpp on his n900 extensively | 15:44 | |
| macmaN | actually, you dont need to ssh even, you can run bitlbee on the phone cant you | 15:44 |
| * Jaffa wants to use irssi via scren when he's on a proper computer but have some kind of scrollback-aware client and IM notification for messages on Harmattan | 15:44 | |
| macmaN | i think it should compile relatively easy | 15:45 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I hope someone will write a gtalk plugin though =) | 15:45 |
| * dm8tbr is with Jaffa on this one | 15:45 | |
| alterego | I think jukka said he'd enquire about N950 images. | 15:45 |
| alterego | Harmattan that is. | 15:45 |
| macmaN | well yeah obv gui is nice, but until theres nothing... | 15:45 |
| dm8tbr | although I'll use irssi-proxy and connect to it with an irc client on the n950 :) | 15:45 |
| petteri | at least the n9 i tried had XMPP/gtalk | 15:45 |
| dm8tbr | but XMPP is must have | 15:45 |
| macmaN | dm8tbr: znc ftw | 15:45 |
| Jaffa | macmaN: I'm thinking in terms of the N9, when the lack of a keyboard is going to make anything other than very quick things very annoying very quickly | 15:45 |
| macmaN | Jaffa: totally true. terminal based stuff wont work at all. | 15:46 |
| alterego | Jaffa: I'll keep the N900 for ssh/screen/irssi | 15:46 |
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| macmaN | unless something about human terminal interaction gets completely rethought | 15:46 |
| macmaN | no idea what it would be | 15:46 |
| Jaffa | alterego: Email client is absolutely, completely, frustrating - http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24586&postcount=384 | 15:46 |
| alterego | Or N950 if that's an option, what's the battery life like Jaffa ? | 15:46 |
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| Jaffa | alterego: Not really had a chance to test properly yet. Certainly feels better than the N900 did at a similar point in its lifecycle. | 15:47 |
| macmaN | i cant figure out so far when exactly it gets its internet connection up | 15:47 |
| macmaN | looks like as soon as you unlock screen it connect | 15:47 |
| macmaN | then disconnects when screen timeouts | 15:47 |
| Jaffa | macmaN: Yes, I'd noticed some oddness around there. But I've also SSHed in to it when it's locked | 15:48 |
| macmaN | background data settings switch seems to have an effect | 15:48 |
| macmaN | a definite improvement is that it just picks a nearby access point now and doesnt make the user go crazy have to wait and make two selections to always do the same thing | 15:49 |
| macmaN | i.e. connect to internet and the same AP | 15:49 |
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| javispedro | hah, ARM says that in 18 months Mali will beat Xbox360. | 15:53 |
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| ShadowJK | make two selections to always do the same thing? <- huh? | 15:58 |
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| Guest1513 | shit fucking weather here and windows too | 16:04 |
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| Itschue | knows anyone here an help chat for knoppix linux in german ? | 16:06 |
| unixSnob | schroot is hogging 1GB of tmpfs filespace. How can that be reduced? | 16:07 |
| unixSnob | /etc/schroot/schroot.conf does not appear to specify the size of the tmpfs | 16:07 |
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| Jaffa | achipa: Thanks for the Page hint - pretty obvious really :-) | 16:10 |
| achipa | Jaffa: yw :) | 16:11 |
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| javispedro | btw, I selfanswered the question I posted here yesterday: n950/n9 supports up to 10 fingers, or at least, controller supports that. | 16:30 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa: you don't have google account option in accounts app ? (re gtalk) | 16:31 |
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| VDVsx | "Chat instant messaging support: Facebook, Skype, Gtalk, and services using sip" -> http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n9/specifications | 16:37 |
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| javispedro | yeah, I bet it's an oversight for the developer firmware. | 16:38 |
| jonwil | bah, way cant I get dbus-monitor to do what I want :( | 16:39 |
| hiemanshu | well there should be an update for the N950, I remember someone telling that it has got over 3000 bug fixes since the version it is being shipped with | 16:39 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro: most probably certifications were not done for that image, most of the stuff that requires them should be out :( | 16:43 |
| * RST38h cannot believe GTalk needs certifications | 16:44 | |
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| VDVsx | RST38h: ofc, unless you wanna call it something else :P | 16:44 |
| gri | certifications? from nokia? google? testers? | 16:45 |
| VDVsx | 16:45 | |
| RST38h | Nah, gtalk is pretty standard stuff, not using anythingproprietary | 16:45 |
| javispedro | oh | 16:45 |
| javispedro | you'd be surprised (for video/audio) | 16:45 |
| RST38h | that is why I doubt that is the reason :) | 16:45 |
| RST38h | ah, that... | 16:45 |
| idont | Hey all | 16:46 |
| RST38h | youdont. | 16:46 |
| idont | Anybody knows of a more proper way to detect in what environment (SDK or N900) a shell script is being ran than this: http://pastebin.com/7dFNBupq? | 16:46 |
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| javispedro | idont: presence of /scratchbox directory | 16:46 |
| idont | *http://pastebin.com/7dFNBupq | 16:46 |
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| idont | javispedro: thanks, but I don't see how a shell script which is ran from inside scratchbox, can see the scratchbox folder itself? | 16:47 |
| javispedro | idont: actually, an script inside scratchbox always sees /scratchbox, no matter where scratchbox is installed. | 16:48 |
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| idont | javispedro: ah, I didn't knew that. Thanks for the pointer, /scratchbox indeed does exist within scratchbox :) | 16:49 |
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| javispedro | you can also check for /targets | 16:49 |
| hiemanshu | or for /host_fs or something | 16:50 |
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| idont | I guess checking for /scratchbox will suffice, thanks for all input :) | 16:50 |
| jonwil | ~seen DocScrutinizer | 16:50 |
| infobot | docscrutinizer is currently on #maemo (9h 19m 35s) #meego (9h 19m 35s) #openmoko (9h 19m 35s) #infobot (9h 19m 35s) #openmoko-cdevel (9h 19m 35s). Has said a total of 5 messages. Is idling for 9h 12m 46s, last said: 'nah - find but not compare afaik'. | 16:50 |
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| Jaffa | VDVsx: No, only Facebook & SIP | 17:06 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa: so that's why you don't have gtalk :) | 17:07 |
| frals | VDVsx: nice weather now... :P | 17:08 |
| VDVsx | frals: not here, yesterday was nice :) | 17:08 |
| frals | VDVsx: arent you in HEL? :P | 17:09 |
| frals | was sunny and nice until 30min ago and now its pretty dark | 17:09 |
| gri | is there some information how to write an accounts plugin? the documentation of accounts-qt only lists classes without any more information | 17:09 |
| VDVsx | frals: yes :) | 17:09 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: Well, indeed. But it sounds like the N950 will only get an image update after the N9's released. | 17:09 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa: that sucks, you just have a few thousand of bugs to deal with then :P | 17:10 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa:Well, we do not yet know | 17:11 |
| VDVsx | gri: isn't there something at developer.nokia.com about accounts ? | 17:11 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Theoreticalythere should not be a problem for someone at Mae^H^HMeego Devices to build another binary | 17:11 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Given how unofficial the whole N950 program is | 17:12 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Well, that's what Sampppa_ and konttori were saying; so yes - it's probably _technically_ easy, but it doesn't sound like that's the only factor. | 17:13 |
| gri | VDVsx: Well, didn't expect the information is different but indeed, the forum nokia library has some more detailed information :) | 17:14 |
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| jonwil | ok, I have decided to compare the Harmattan opensource MCE x86 build with the closed nokia-binaries Fremantle SDK x86 build and see if I can identify any differences in the code | 17:16 |
| jonwil | i.e. user the Harmattan MCE and its source code to try and re-create some code that matches the fremantle MCE if I can | 17:16 |
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| gri | It only tells me "put your configuration files into /usr/share/accounts", but not how to define the xml files | 17:17 |
| bash` | hi all, can I install maemo in the microSD? I own a N900 | 17:17 |
| bash` | I've MeeGo in the eMMC | 17:17 |
| * javispedro is going to buy one of those livescribe things since the noteslate seems like its never going to ship | 17:18 | |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I hope there is sufficient mayhem there in order for something like this to happen unnoticed =) | 17:18 |
| jonwil | no you cant install maemo on the microSD | 17:18 |
| jonwil | too much is hardcoded to work with the rootfs on NAND | 17:18 |
| jonwil | at least AFAIK | 17:18 |
| bash` | great...meego has this bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18835 and I don't know how to recovery my phone :( | 17:19 |
| povbot | Bug 18835: was not found. | 17:19 |
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| javispedro | by reflashing | 17:20 |
| bash` | javispedro: I can't! | 17:20 |
| bash` | the battery is too low and the phone doesn't start | 17:21 |
| jonwil | Only option seems to be to find another phone that you can use to charge the battery | 17:21 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Here's hoping | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | So you no longer have working maemo install? | 17:21 |
| jonwil | or find some kind of external battery charger | 17:21 |
| * javispedro ponders if phone charges while stuck in nolo | 17:21 | |
| bash` | jonwil: yes, seems that but I know none :( | 17:21 |
| javispedro | or at least, emergency charges. | 17:21 |
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| ShadowJK | javispedro, emergency charge rate is too low for everything except old PR1.2 kernel | 17:22 |
| bash` | ShadowJK: yep...I was using meego but the battery level is too low now :( | 17:22 |
| ShadowJK | I did notice myself too that meego bme seems to die or something on low battery | 17:22 |
| bash` | with the usb charger the phone start after 10 minutes, then I get into meego for a minute, then the phone dead | 17:23 |
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| ShadowJK | well, and the charger chip wants to charge slow, and is unaware of system load | 17:23 |
| bash` | yes | 17:23 |
| ShadowJK | I'd definitely not try to do anything with usb | 17:23 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if my charge script works on meego... | 17:24 |
| bash` | ShadowJK: please let me try :) | 17:24 |
| ShadowJK | but it's such a fucking pain to test anything on meego with no proper terminal | 17:24 |
| * RST38h imagines some eurocommiteemember saying "Wouldn't it BE NICE if every EU phone could charge over USB?" | 17:24 | |
| ShadowJK | Yeah, unfortunately running USB chipset seems to consume exactly 100mA | 17:25 |
| bash` | ShadowJK: yes, I want to develop an application then I installed meego in the eMMC, because microSD is a pain | 17:25 |
| javispedro | uSD is pain? wasn't it faster than emmc on the meego kernel? | 17:25 |
| bash` | javispedro: which class? | 17:26 |
| ShadowJK | they dont have sensible benchmark metrics nor setup | 17:26 |
| ShadowJK | class is stupid and mostly irrelevant for anything that is not a camera. | 17:26 |
| javispedro | class doesn't matter much imho. | 17:26 |
| RST38h | does class matter for our hw?I thought the controller runs at such a slow freq that it makes classirrelevant =) | 17:26 |
| bash` | javispedro: I was using class 2 | 17:26 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, well you can do about 14MByte/s to emmc.. | 17:27 |
| ShadowJK | or from, rather. | 17:27 |
| ShadowJK | Under specific circumstances | 17:27 |
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| ShadowJK | seek-heavy stuff makes it go more like 1-2meg/second though | 17:28 |
| ShadowJK | bash`, do you have uboot? | 17:29 |
| bash` | ShadowJK: no :( | 17:29 |
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| ShadowJK | Because you've got so little time, i can't imagine you'd be able to download anf run stuff in time | 17:29 |
| javispedro | so you're booting meego using flasher -k -l ? | 17:29 |
| bash` | ShadowJK: in fact | 17:30 |
| bash` | javispedro: no, I don't need the flasher | 17:30 |
| javispedro | then you are using uboot? | 17:30 |
| bash` | the flasher doesn't see the phone, otherwise I reflash it ;) | 17:30 |
| Termana | Anyone that has manually setup the Harmattan SDK with scratchbox: Do I only need to download arm-psdk-nokiameegoapi-beta-rootstrap.tgz and arm-qemu-rm680_linux_i686.tar.gz from here http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/d6-beta.php | 17:30 |
| javispedro | there's not much more ways to boot meego than uboot or flasher -k -l.. | 17:30 |
| javispedro | Termana: no need for arm-qemu, but you need i386-psdk-nokiameegoapi-* | 17:31 |
| bash` | javispedro: uhm, but meego is in the eMMC | 17:31 |
| bash` | javispedro: I overwrited the original vmlinuz | 17:31 |
| bash` | with the meego version | 17:31 |
| * javispedro sighs | 17:31 | |
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| ShadowJK | 1) shoot self in foot 2) go on irc 3) ??? | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 17:32 |
| bash` | maybe a Nokia center? | 17:32 |
| bash` | I need to recharge my battery :P | 17:32 |
| javispedro | bash`: Nokia cares can charge a battery, yes. | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | even if one could install maemo on uSD, you'd have no way to boot it | 17:32 |
| javispedro | (depending on size though) | 17:32 |
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| bash` | ShadowJK: how much time to install uboot? | 17:33 |
| bash` | I can download the package, then wait for the next boot | 17:33 |
| bash` | and I've no many choices here... | 17:34 |
| javispedro | you probably only need to flash stock kernel then let it reboot | 17:34 |
| bash` | javispedro: yes, the problem is I can't | 17:34 |
| javispedro | if you followed emmc instructions well (which is to be seen cause you forgot to read the part that says "It's highly recommended NOT to flash the kernel on your device") | 17:34 |
| bash` | the phone doesn't turn on | 17:34 |
| ShadowJK | to a broken maemo? better than nothing, i guess | 17:34 |
| javispedro | maemo would be safe. | 17:34 |
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| bash` | javispedro: where is that part? Anyway I used the de-installer | 17:35 |
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| javispedro | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Recover_From_Drained_Battery | 17:36 |
| * ShadowJK goes look at running his charge script | 17:37 | |
| ShadowJK | what de-installer? | 17:39 |
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| gri | Is there a way to disable the virtual keyboard in scratchbox (harmattan)? | 17:42 |
| bash` | ShadowJK: in the wiki eMMC page, | 17:42 |
| bash` | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/EMMC | 17:42 |
| jonwil | btw, a useful tip if the flasher wont see the phone is to remove the battery, plug in the USB, start the flasher (which will say that it cant find a suitable device). Then you insert the battery and the flashing will start straight away | 17:45 |
| jonwil | Certainly works if you are using -l to load a kernel | 17:45 |
| jonwil | Assuming the maemo rootfs on the NAND is fine, you could try using that to -l the maemo kernel | 17:45 |
| alterego | jonwil: I just have it off, start flasher, then plug in usb | 17:46 |
| alterego | No need for battery popping | 17:46 |
| jonwil | whatever works | 17:46 |
| bash` | jonwil: nice, I'll try...can I reflash maemo? Or it takes too many time? | 17:47 |
| ShadowJK | Seems like it for many it doesn't work unless you do the battery out thing | 17:47 |
| jonwil | You could do that to -l load a maemo kernel | 17:47 |
| jonwil | which takes less time than flashing | 17:47 |
| jonwil | and that will boot maemo | 17:47 |
| jonwil | which will then let you charge the phone | 17:47 |
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| jonwil | and from there you can reflash with whatever you need | 17:47 |
| alterego | ShadowJK: there's no difference having battery out or having device off. | 17:47 |
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| alterego | ShadowJK: as long as you connect usb _after_ running flasher, the device turns itself on when connected to usb anyway. | 17:48 |
| alterego | Flashing N900s when you've already got another connected is more fun btw | 17:48 |
| nicofs | Hello! I have a problem connecting to ICQ with the default Conversations program... somehow I just can't connect... | 17:49 |
| alterego | You have to supply the -u option and hold 'u' to force it into update usb mode. | 17:49 |
| alterego | nicofs: can you run telnet icq hpst and icq port? | 17:50 |
| alterego | Might be port blocking on your operator | 17:50 |
| nicofs | alterego, i'm using wlan | 17:50 |
| nicofs | otherwise i wouldn't know how to do what you just said... | 17:51 |
| alterego | nicofs: interesting :) | 17:51 |
| alterego | And other machines on the wlan can connect to icq presumably? | 17:51 |
| * jonwil has found some fun new games for his n900 | 17:51 | |
| * alterego is suprised people still use ICQ :) | 17:52 | |
| jonwil | only on Maemo could someone get away with calling a game "Them Bloody Ducks" :P | 17:52 |
| nicofs | alterego, without problems... i installed that additional protocol plugin... | 17:52 |
| alterego | Hrm, well, I don't have ICQ so I can't really help with debugging it, maybe post a thread/seaarch the talk.maemo.org forums? | 17:53 |
| nicofs | alterego, i can install pidgin and there it works - but i don't want to use pidgin... | 17:54 |
| alterego | Okay, so must be an issue with the telepathy icq plugin then | 17:55 |
| * jonwil wishes some of these games had more documentation | 17:55 | |
| alterego | There are quite a few versions of the extra protocol plugins for "conversations" maybe try another package? (first uninstall the one you've already installed) | 17:55 |
| alterego | And also make sure your details are correct | 17:56 |
| nicofs | alterego, in my program manager, there is only this one plugin... | 17:57 |
| alterego | m'kay | 17:59 |
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| alterego | nicofs: have you tried the xmpp icq gateway? | 18:00 |
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| nicofs | alterego, how...? (so i guess i didn't) | 18:01 |
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| alterego | Hang on | 18:01 |
| alterego | nicofs: I'm guessing you've just got the extras repo? | 18:02 |
| alterego | No -testing or -devel? | 18:02 |
| nicofs | i don't think so... let me check... | 18:03 |
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| nicofs | alterego, no | 18:05 |
| alterego | So you installed the "Extra protocols for conversations and contacts"? | 18:07 |
| alterego | if so, try the "pidgin protocols plugin for conversations and contacts" | 18:08 |
| alterego | bbiab | 18:08 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, wtf. MeeGO rebooted into Maemo, by itself. | 18:11 |
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| ShadowJK | maybe it didn't like having bme killed, or bq battery module removed | 18:13 |
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| ZogG | https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--3fF7ZMKuns/ThA8ammRzKI/AAAAAAAAAHU/Pe8ZK9s10fg/156528_460s.jpg | 18:16 |
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| RST38h | and? | 18:17 |
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| nicofs | alterego, i installed almost that had pidgin, protocol or conversation in it... | 18:21 |
| nicofs | *everything not almost | 18:22 |
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| ShadowJK | Oh that fucker, he left right as I finished charging on meego | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | moo | 18:33 |
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| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: mooo, did you see the link I sent? | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, what was it? aah yes | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | known | 18:54 |
| hiemanshu | ah ok | 18:54 |
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| hiemanshu | well I just noticed it :P | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | the definition of "good use" though is clearly with the board, not with you | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically saying they can revoke any arbitrary time | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | and hell, that's OK with me | 18:55 |
| hiemanshu | well yes, but loan is a word used to avoid taxes | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't think N950 loaner is an award, it's a responsibility | 18:56 |
| hiemanshu | well yes, until you are hacking till N9 is a better experience, its all ok | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | a responsibility you opted to take, and quim thought you might deliver. He may reconsider any time | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | simple as that | 18:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | have you read the mail? >> CONGRATULATIONS! You have been ****tentatively**** accepted in the MeeGo community N950 developer device program. | 18:59 |
| MohammadAG | and I asked what tentatively meant | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~dict tentatively | 19:00 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'tentatively' (2): in a tentative manner; "we agreed tentatively on a dinner date" ;; See {Tempt}.] Of or pertaining to a trial or trials; essaying; experimental. "A slow, tentative manner." --Carlyle. -- {Ten*ta"tive*ly}, adv. [1913 Webster]. | 19:00 |
| jonwil | DocScrutinizer, was it you that suggested I should reverse engineer MCE? | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 19:01 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: well, it meant if you aren't a part of nokia or a commercial dev or something | 19:01 |
| jonwil | which bits specifically? | 19:01 |
| Jartza | shit | 19:01 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: that is what I assumed | 19:01 |
| Jartza | my usb port of the n900 broke | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | the whole friggin mce engine? | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jartza: OHNOES | 19:01 |
| hiemanshu | mce? | 19:02 |
| MohammadAG | I hear mce requires little changes to compile against 2.6.28 | 19:02 |
| Jartza | the whole plug came out while unplugging the charger | 19:02 |
| Scifig | Jartza: Hopefully it is still under warranty? | 19:02 |
| jonwil | well I am planning to take the Harmattan MCE and the Fremantle MCE along with the Harmattan MCE source code and use some reverse engineering | 19:02 |
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| cehteh | the more i hear about broken usb ports the more i think about fixing (epoxy glue) mine before it breaks | 19:02 |
| jonwil | and from there work out whats different between both | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: exactly, it shouldn't be too hard to backport from meego | 19:02 |
| jonwil | i.e. come up with some code that matches the Fremantle MCE | 19:03 |
| cehteh | ok after warranty :) | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: sounds like a plan | 19:03 |
| jonwil | there are definatly differences between MCE in harmattan and MCE in fremantle | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: fix (solder) it | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: much better than epoxy | 19:03 |
| jonwil | Not sure if I should use harmattan MCE code or meego repo MCE code | 19:03 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: mine isnt broken yet and i dont want to modify anything while warranty | 19:03 |
| jonwil | but harmattan is easier to get binaries for | 19:03 |
| cehteh | of course i would solder it first | 19:04 |
| hiemanshu | what is mce? :/ | 19:04 |
| jonwil | mode control entity | 19:04 |
| jonwil | it does important hardware stuff on the phone | 19:04 |
| jonwil | like talking to the vibrator | 19:04 |
| MohammadAG | jonwil, afaik it was someone who knows both of their codes | 19:04 |
| hiemanshu | ah | 19:04 |
| MohammadAG | basically, get meego mce to compile, run the same libraries | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | mode/machine control entity | 19:04 |
| cehteh | and i have to look at the pcb, would it be possible to drill small holes besides the usb port and add some support? dunno if there are wires and space around | 19:05 |
| jonwil | I do know that tklock.c from meego/harmattan mce is different to that from Fremantle mce | 19:05 |
| MohammadAG | that's a library, not mce itself though | 19:05 |
| cehteh | but a drop expoxy under and around the port, maybe with *thin* glas or carbon reinforcement wont hurt and should fit | 19:05 |
| jonwil | no, tklock.c is linked into the MCE binary | 19:06 |
| jonwil | its not in one of the ,so files | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: better use solder!!! | 19:06 |
| cehteh | solder wont help against the pads coming off | 19:06 |
| cehteh | i'd use that too .. but some other reinforcement if possible too | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: it WILL: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 | 19:07 |
| cehteh | well i am learned plastic/chemical worker :) | 19:07 |
| cehteh | yes soldering like that | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: then you know the green varnish will spoil all your effort | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | on epoxy / whatever | 19:08 |
| hiemanshu | my usb port is bent to the left a little, I think it might break sometime soon too :( | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: immediately do http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 | 19:09 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: yes I will | 19:09 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: nah, thats clear, i was thinking abut drillin a smal hole left and right and then wrap a epoxy soaked kevlar, glass or carbon strand around | 19:09 |
| hiemanshu | I am really bad at soldering, I'll get it done at a place closeby, for dirt cheap | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: sounds ok, we don't know about traces in inner layers though -> drilling is DANGEROUS | 19:10 |
| * hiemanshu loves being in India | 19:10 | |
| cehteh | doesnt matter if it adheres to the pcb then .. it just clamps it dowen | 19:10 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yes thats my only scare ... i hope someone could make some suggestions where the traces are | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: first get proper x-ray photos of the whole thing! | 19:10 |
| cehteh | but looking at the skrew hole beneath and the open space on the other side there might be no traces .. but agrees to be sure this needs some investigation | 19:11 |
| cehteh | dont you want to xray your device? :) | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeeeeek no | 19:12 |
| cehteh | haha | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | I love all my data in flash | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | I love my electret membrane in mic | 19:12 |
| cehteh | normally xray doesnt erase flash .. but .. heh .. who knows | 19:12 |
| cehteh | well some dental xray can be very finely targeted | 19:12 |
| Jartza | no warranty in this phone anymore | 19:13 |
| Jartza | fuck | 19:13 |
| Jartza | I have another scrap n900 which still can be used to charge the battery | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jartza: get http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 .zip! | 19:14 |
| * Jaffa 's N900 (according to nokia.com) was in warranty and got replaced by a N8 (last week) | 19:14 | |
| * SpeedEvil ponders trying to find a scrap n900. | 19:14 | |
| * cehteh would like to have a 2nd device for testing and spare part donor | 19:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer | all hail to Nokia for that, Jaffa | 19:14 |
| RST38h | Ahhahaha | 19:14 |
| SpeedEvil | I want to try and fix the cellmo and USB on mine | 19:14 |
| cehteh | Jaffa: can they do that? .. i wont accept that | 19:15 |
| RST38h | Doc: Want fun? | 19:15 |
| cehteh | if they cant fix it, then money back | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | there's a terroristy way of fixing the USB port | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: not yet :-) | 19:15 |
| RST38h | Doc: Let us say there is a .c file with some inline THUMB assembly | 19:15 |
| cehteh | solder a usb wire .. n900 with piggy tail :) | 19:15 |
| RST38h | Nothing special, just normal GCC inline assembly | 19:15 |
| RST38h | Compiles fine, at least for a while | 19:15 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: or several wires - depending on how screwed up it is | 19:16 |
| cehteh | yeah | 19:16 |
| RST38h | Then I start getting this: C:\Users\fms\AppData\Local\Temp\ccuCBOFM.s:305: Error: lo register required -- `and r1,r8` | 19:16 |
| cehteh | well i 'can' do such delicate soldering .. but that doesnt mean i like it | 19:16 |
| Dibblah | ... There is actually sufficient space (given some chopping) to fit a mini-USB connector in there. | 19:16 |
| RST38h | Why would GCC use R8 in THUMB assembly? :) | 19:16 |
| RST38h | Yet, it does | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, for parameter passing? | 19:17 |
| cehteh | normally i am not a hardware guy and i do that rarely only if i must, so i am not very good at it | 19:17 |
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| cehteh | still the extra serial port i once added to my newton looks like it belong to it and was desiged by apple :) | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I can't see anything that's <20cm away from my eyes anymore | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: so don't ask me about how pleasant such soldering is | 19:18 |
| RST38h | Doc: yep | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, let's say 15cm | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | still no good for soldering such stuff - I'm getting to old for that shit (said Clint Eastwood) | 19:20 |
| jonwil | If I needed my USB port fixed and my device was out of warranty or I didnt want to take it to Nokia to get it replaced with an N8, I would ask around at some mobile phone/gadget repair type shops for somewhere that can do fine soldering and ask them to fix it :) | 19:20 |
| hiemanshu | jonwil: well around here if open it yourself, and ask someone to fine solder it, its about half a euro | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | though the USB ruggedizing as of http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 looks simple enough, even for mediocre iron artists | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean that's a component and joint of ~5mm size, and not really any delicate stuff in vicinity that you could kill | 19:22 |
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| hiemanshu | except the camera lens that well you can avoid easily unless you are bling | 19:23 |
| hiemanshu | blind* | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | cover it! | 19:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | highly recommended | 19:23 |
| Jartza | hmmh | 19:23 |
| Jartza | oh well | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jartza: your case is more delicate | 19:24 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: good that i am shortsighted .. without glasses i cant see anything which is >20cm away :P | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 19:24 |
| Jartza | I used to solder modchips to consoles, but not anymore :) | 19:24 |
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| Jartza | I think I'm not going to fix this myself | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | find a nice good repair shop | 19:25 |
| Jartza | maybe I'll just pray for n950 :) | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's "changing LED color of your phone" 15 times a day | 19:25 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: but yes .. i am starting to remove glasses to read the n900 screen at least when the browser use small fonts or some map text is small | 19:25 |
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| cehteh | guess a smartphone with a 7" display for 'elderly geeks' would be the next big thing soon :P | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I have the advantage my sight is 180% so I can read the 12PT Nokia font in xchat from almost a meter | 19:26 |
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| cehteh | nice | 19:27 |
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| cehteh | once worked for me too | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I start to fail reading the ingredients list on some instant noodle soup bags ;-P | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe freudean | 19:29 |
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| Jartza | oh well | 19:34 |
| Jartza | friend of mine looked at the picture of the usb-fix .zip and told me he could do it :) | 19:35 |
| Jartza | "easy" | 19:35 |
| cehteh | wtf .. why does someone zip a .jpg? | 19:37 |
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| rascal999 | meego htc, possible? | 19:37 |
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| RST38h | Doc: FIxed it - have to use "l" constraint rather than "r" | 19:39 |
| Jartza | I'm still going to make a backup of my phone with rsync before giving it to my friend :) | 19:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: :-) (still if you'd use tab expansion I'd get highlighted :-D better chances your posts don't get lost) | 19:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: basically it's been you who made me remove my highlight on "doc:" as you used it for Doc_home or what's been his name as well | 19:55 |
| dm8tbr | rascal999: look at the meego wiki, short answer, no | 19:56 |
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| JZA | hi where can I download the Nokia PC suite for N900 | 19:56 |
| JZA | I keep getting betalabs on google and or symbian | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 19:57 |
| JZA | can anyone help me find the download page | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | wait a while, somebody will help | 19:58 |
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| hiemanshu | JZA: just download the latest nokia ovi suite, works fine with the N900 too | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | JZA: on a general notice - for flashing it's strongly suggested to use linux and flasher-3.5 rather than PC suite | 19:59 |
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| hiemanshu | JZA: http://www.comms.ovi.com/m/p/ovi/suite/index_en_uk.html | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | JZA: also see : | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~flash | 19:59 |
| infobot | hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 19:59 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: its easier to use ovi suite for backing up contacts and such (directly goes into windows contacts for me) | 20:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I agree though there's probably a need for PC suite to sync to outlook ;-) | 20:00 |
| * hiemanshu doesn't care about/use outlook | 20:01 | |
| JZA | thanks thats what I needed. I guess I miss the renaming from Nokia PC Suite to Ovi Suite | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: got NFI what windoze is using for "contacts" today | 20:02 |
| JZA | so just to make sure, i want to share internet from my n900 to my laptop, will the Ovi Suite take care of that? | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought they'll never drop outlook(-express) | 20:02 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: it uses .contact files, but you can change or import it | 20:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | JZA: afaik yes | 20:03 |
| dm8tbr | JZA: beware, as ovi is going to be merged back into nokia brand it will probably soon be called nokia suite or something | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | JZA: though not exactly needed for that purpose | 20:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | to windows (and any USB host PC) the N900 should look like an arbitrary USB 3G stick aiui | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | but OVI suite brings some .inf files or whatever to facilitate that use case | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | (no windoze here, so all this is noob's advice at best) | 20:06 |
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| hiemanshu | JZA: you need the right drivers and it should be fine really, you need ovi suite | 20:07 |
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| merlin1991 | can it be that ssh cuts on the pw lenght? | 20:11 |
| merlin1991 | or the n900 does? | 20:11 |
| merlin1991 | I can log in if I just put 10 correct and 4 false digits of my 14 digit root pw | 20:11 |
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| _NIN | http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/o488u1g1/Screenshot20110703174510.png anyone knows what might cause this filemanager "bug"? There is nothing mounted in /media/ (except mmc1), the second item for the N900 storage is wrong, says "filesystem not supported" when I touch it. It is somehow related to gnome-vfs, because when I kill it, the second entry disappears. | 20:14 |
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| merlin1991 | hey did anyone notice that the root pw on the n900 is only validated on the first 8 digits? | 20:16 |
| merlin1991 | I did some testing and I do have a 14 digit pw, but I only need to use 8 to be able to log in over ssh | 20:17 |
| merlin1991 | WTF? | 20:17 |
| JZA | hiemanshu: what u mean the right drivers, do I need aditional driver download? I am running windows 7 | 20:17 |
| hiemanshu | JZA: the N900 drivers, and yes you need them on windows 7, installing ovi suite will download the USB drivers for you | 20:18 |
| JZA | ah ok | 20:18 |
| merlin1991 | anyone? | 20:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: that's normal for certain crypt() implementations linux is using to build the pw hashes in /etc/passwd (|shadow) | 20:23 |
| merlin1991 | isn't that "unsafe" ? | 20:23 |
| merlin1991 | brute forcing a pw lenght of 8 vs 14 is quite a HUGE difference afaik | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really, but you're free to use other default encryption algo | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | see man 3 crypt | 20:24 |
| dm8tbr | also safe 8 char passwords that are really hard to brute force ar no rocket surgery | 20:26 |
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| cehteh | dm8tbr: you are wrong meanwhile .. 8 chars are petty easily brute forceable, at worst you need to spend some bucks to hire some gpu power from the cloud | 20:29 |
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| cehteh | top notch gpus brute forcing hashes in no time .. no rainbow tables required anymore, salting wont rescue you | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: >> In the SHA implementation the entire key is significant (instead of only the first 8 bytes in MD5). | 20:30 |
| cehteh | some expensive hashing algo like beecrypt may help a bit | 20:30 |
| merlin1991 | I'm just chaning from pw based ssh server to key based (if it's supported) | 20:31 |
| cehteh | on the n900, yes works | 20:31 |
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| cehteh | i only use pk crypto, no passwords | 20:32 |
| merlin1991 | now If I'd remember the command to disable the pw | 20:33 |
| cehteh | rm -rf /etc/passwd :P | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | -rf ??? | 20:34 |
| cehteh | really fast | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: watch out! | 20:34 |
| merlin1991 | cehteh: passwd -l root | 20:34 |
| cehteh | does the n900 use PAM? | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: keep an open shell login to rot, so you can revert if it fails | 20:35 |
| dm8tbr | cehteh: [ ] you understood my statement | 20:35 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: yes I did :D | 20:35 |
| merlin1991 | besides sudo gainroot should still work | 20:35 |
| dm8tbr | cehteh: try to brute force a n900 via UMTS or WLAN | 20:35 |
| dm8tbr | no 'magic gpu pixie dust' will help you | 20:35 |
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| cehteh | dm8tbr: yes you have to acquire the hashes somehow | 20:36 |
| dm8tbr | cehteh: if you acquire the device phyiscally, why care for the hash? | 20:36 |
| merlin1991 | ai shit | 20:36 |
| merlin1991 | Server refused our key | 20:36 |
| cehteh | well sometimes there are easier ways .. bugs you know | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 20:37 |
| dm8tbr | and I agree if it's the old crypt hash then it's not salted and john will crack it quickly | 20:37 |
| dm8tbr | still there are significantly more secure passwords than lower case ascii 7bit | 20:37 |
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| cehteh | not only old crypt also more decent ones | 20:37 |
| cehteh | length matters .. but 8 chars are not secure anymore even with sha1/256/whatever | 20:38 |
| dm8tbr | I'd like you to brute force a proper salted hash with 8 characters where you have no idea about the chars | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you can get the N900 passwd file and hashes in there, then you owned the machine already. Absolutely academic debate to wonder how hard it may be to brute-force from hash to passwd | 20:38 |
| dm8tbr | exactly my point, thanks DocScrutinizer | 20:38 |
| cehteh | if gpus are fast enough to go over tens of millions hashes per second then even salting doesnt help .. thats brute force, not rainbow tables | 20:38 |
| merlin1991 | cehteh: what did you do to enable public key logon to the n900? | 20:39 |
| merlin1991 | anything special? | 20:39 |
| cehteh | salting only protects against rainbow tables and other plaintext attacs | 20:39 |
| dm8tbr | cehteh: that's because someone will store government secrets on their n900, only protected by the root password.... rrrright | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: who cares? | 20:39 |
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| cehteh | merlin1991: you use openssh? not dropbear? | 20:39 |
| merlin1991 | openssh | 20:39 |
| cehteh | ok | 20:40 |
| cehteh | you added your key to the authorized_key file? | 20:40 |
| merlin1991 | yes | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: you CAN NOT brute-force crack a N900 via wlan ssh access | 20:40 |
| cehteh | double check that you did that correctly | 20:40 |
| cehteh | copy paste, spaces, formatting and so on | 20:41 |
| dm8tbr | cehteh: it's authorized_keys with an S | 20:41 |
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| cehteh | when you cant figure out you can stop the opensshd and start it manually in debugging mode | 20:41 |
| cehteh | .ssh/authorized_keys | 20:41 |
| cehteh | yes | 20:41 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yes you have to acquire the hashes somehow to crack them offline | 20:42 |
| hiemanshu | merlin1991: if you are scared about it, just use denyhosts :P | 20:42 |
| cehteh | but .. hey .. i saied bugs .. | 20:42 |
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| cehteh | microb has some nokia plugins for example .. did you audited them? | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: make sure your permissions on $HOME and $HOME/.ssh and $HOME/.ssh/authorized_keys are correct. Otherwise sshd will refuse to sign-in | 20:43 |
| dm8tbr | cehteh: if you want to play academic nonsense. please point me to a publication showing salted md5 or sha* being unsafe for random 8 chars by being brute forceable in <1 year. | 20:43 |
| cehteh | they starting HAM for example which runs as root .. so if there is a bug/exploit, there is at least some root priv to read passwd there | 20:43 |
| merlin1991 | how should they be? | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: the chance to get root access via a "bug" is way higher than the chance to get the passwd file to decrypt the hashes | 20:44 |
| cehteh | dm8tbr: on our last lug meeting we talked about that .. google for "password cracking gpu" ... | 20:44 |
| merlin1991 | cehteh: mind if I query you about the setup? | 20:44 |
| dm8tbr | cehteh: so you don't know one, thanks for confirming all you have is hot air and buzz words. ktxbai | 20:44 |
| cehteh | yes sshd is very pity about correct permissions on all its files | 20:44 |
| cehteh | merlin1991: ok | 20:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: WFM: | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ll -d $HOME | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | drwxr-xr-x 12 root root 2816 2011-06-28 12:11 /root | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ll -d /root/.ssh/ | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | drwx------ 2 root root 304 2010-10-28 02:27 /root/.ssh/ | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | for user root | 20:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ll -d /root/.ssh/* | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1115 2007-11-15 21:07 /root/.ssh/authorized_keys | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 810 2010-08-27 06:58 /root/.ssh/known_hosts | 20:47 |
| cehteh | mhm are works .. ok but not for privkey :) | 20:48 |
| cehteh | -r- | 20:48 |
| cehteh | i have all 600 | 20:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, I guess for non-root you need 600 | 20:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also see: | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | jr@halley:~> ssh-copy-id --help | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Usage: /usr/bin/ssh-copy-id [-i [identity_file]] [user@]machine | 20:52 |
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| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: got it running | 21:05 |
| merlin1991 | for some reason it didn't like passwd -l root | 21:05 |
| merlin1991 | even though according to man that would keep the account live for key auth | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 21:06 |
| merlin1991 | and does so for example on debian | 21:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: o/ | 21:50 |
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| javispedro | helo | 21:53 |
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| Macer | anybody ever try out an n8? | 22:24 |
| Macer | was wondering how well symbian was done on it | 22:25 |
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| alterego | I've heard good things about it, though still room for inprovement. | 22:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Ask Jaffa. | 22:26 |
| alterego | improvement | 22:26 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: hahah | 22:26 |
| alterego | Or lcuk | 22:26 |
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| Macer | is it the same s60 experience from the n95 days? | 22:29 |
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| Macer | or did they pretty it up with some qt eyeplay? | 22:30 |
| alterego | God no | 22:30 |
| alterego | A _lot_ different | 22:30 |
| alterego | There are a few familiarities, so you wont feel completely lost, but it is quite different at the same time. | 22:30 |
| Macer | really? sounds interesting. wouldnt mind finding one for $100 somewhere | 22:30 |
| user0 | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host#Installation | 22:30 |
| user0 | is that up to date? | 22:30 |
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| user0 | alterego : have a look at that link pls | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | ask MohammadAG | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | user0: mompls, checking | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | user0: yes, up to date | 22:38 |
| GAN900 | Is it Monday yet? | 22:38 |
| cehteh | in some places of the world | 22:39 |
| user0 | depends | 22:39 |
| user0 | ty DocScrutinizer | 22:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: waiting to ignite the fuse? | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | user0: yw | 22:40 |
| alterego | GAN900: why does it matter if it's Monday? | 22:40 |
| GAN900 | Waiting for the house to turn into a disco studio when Nokia lights up my inbox. | 22:40 |
| alterego | Heh | 22:41 |
| alterego | Well, it's Monday here first :P | 22:41 |
| alterego | I'll let you know what happens, besides I think we probably wont be cleared until Wednesday | 22:41 |
| hiemanshu | its 1:12 am here | 22:42 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: you are in asia? | 22:42 |
| hiemanshu | or australia | 22:43 |
| alterego | No, UK | 22:43 |
| alterego | But GAN is in the US | 22:43 |
| hiemanshu | ah | 22:43 |
| GAN900 | Ugh | 22:43 |
| alterego | Besides I'm closer to finish time :P | 22:43 |
| hiemanshu | well yeah | 22:43 |
| alterego | They're +2 | 22:44 |
| alterego | from me | 22:44 |
| hiemanshu | I am +5.3 | 22:44 |
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| hiemanshu | +5.30 | 22:44 |
| hiemanshu | so yes its monday here | 22:44 |
| GAN900 | This is silly. I should've had an N950 in my hands last Winter. | 22:45 |
| alterego | hiemanshu: sure but you're way ahead of Finland | 22:45 |
| alterego | GAN900: pfft, me too! :P | 22:45 |
| GAN900 | alterego, yes, finish time indeed. | 22:45 |
| alterego | I should have an N9 now too! | 22:45 |
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| GAN900 | The finish line is close. | 22:45 |
| hiemanshu | I should have enough to build a server farm by now :P | 22:46 |
| dm8tbr | the finnish line? ;) | 22:46 |
| hiemanshu | an obs build service filled with n950s and n9s | 22:46 |
| GAN900 | dm8tbr, stay away from it! It'll turn you into a hipster. | 22:46 |
| hiemanshu | or a WP lover :P | 22:46 |
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| * dm8tbr doesn't snort finnish lines | 22:47 | |
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| hiemanshu | can 720p MP4 movies be played on the N900? | 22:54 |
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| dm8tbr | hiemanshu: h.264 or ASP? | 22:55 |
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| dm8tbr | a device with same SoC will happily do 720p but not h.264 IIRC, but let me check | 22:56 |
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| hiemanshu | dm8tbr: not sure, but I have a 720p movie that I got from a friend and wondered if the N900 could play it | 22:57 |
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| dm8tbr | don't know about the n900 but the http://www.archos.com/products/ta/archos_5it/specs.html?country=us&lang=en says it could, but I think they clock the 3630 a bit higher | 22:58 |
| alterego | hiemanshu: try playing it. | 22:58 |
| alterego | Otherwise rescale it | 22:58 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: media player says 'unsupported format' and kmplayer is stuck at buffering | 22:58 |
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| rcg | did anyone install the harmattan scratchbox along with the fremantle one? | 22:59 |
| hiemanshu | rcg: yes, works fine | 22:59 |
| rcg | cool.. did you do it just by using the provided install script? | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: I should've had a N9 in my hands (and on my toolbench) 3 months ago :-P | 22:59 |
| hiemanshu | rcg: yes | 22:59 |
| GAN900 | Stupid Elop, stupid board. | 23:00 |
| rcg | hiemanshu: great. thanks! | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | though OTOH I don't really see why I should do a qualified hw review for Nokia for free, for a device I'm not really excited about | 23:00 |
| rcg | hiemanshu: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Getting_started_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Installing_Harmattan_Platform_SDK <-- this was what you did, right? | 23:01 |
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| hiemanshu | rcg: downloaded from http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/Introduction.html and ran admininstall yes | 23:02 |
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| rcg | hiemanshu: ic, thanks | 23:03 |
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| vi__ | scac | 23:07 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, because you got nothin' better to do? :P | 23:11 |
| jacekowski | i just pulled out usb socket out of my N900 | 23:11 |
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| nox- | :( | 23:12 |
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| GAN900 | Gotta love idiotic cost-cutting | 23:13 |
| nox- | indeed :( | 23:13 |
| nox- | apple does non-replaceable batteries, nokia poorly attached usb sockets... | 23:14 |
| nox- | https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Planned_obsolescence | 23:15 |
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| alterego | jacekowski: unlucky :( Is it your only N900? | 23:15 |
| nox- | (tho ofc its unclear if thats the reason for the usb socket fail too) | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | alterego: yes | 23:15 |
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| Parslee | i need a broken n900. What broke? | 23:16 |
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| alterego | jacekowski: primary phone? :/ | 23:16 |
| jacekowski | alterego: yes | 23:16 |
| jacekowski | alterego: i have N95 as well so i'll use that for now | 23:16 |
| alterego | Do you have an N810 | 23:16 |
| jacekowski | no | 23:16 |
| alterego | ? | 23:16 |
| alterego | Eek | 23:17 |
| alterego | You can charge the N900 battery in other handsets if the battery bay is larger than the battery | 23:17 |
| jacekowski | not really a solution | 23:17 |
| jacekowski | i'm wondering if it'll be easier to get nokia to fix it | 23:18 |
| jacekowski | or just claim on insuranc | 23:18 |
| jacekowski | insurance* | 23:18 |
| alterego | And if it has the right connectors, like N810 | 23:18 |
| alterego | You'll probably get an N8 though .. | 23:18 |
| jacekowski | alterego: why? | 23:18 |
| alterego | jacekowski: Jaffa got an N8 "upgrade" when they decided not to fix it last week. | 23:18 |
| alterego | I think they may not stock replacements anymore. | 23:19 |
| alterego | I think I might reinforce my two N900s | 23:19 |
| jacekowski | so insurance then | 23:19 |
| jacekowski | i'll tell them that i've lost it | 23:19 |
| alterego | And you think your insurance company are more likely to be able to get you a replacement? | 23:20 |
| jacekowski | well, they have to | 23:20 |
| alterego | They have the same conditions as Nokia "equivalent functionality" | 23:20 |
| alterego | They'll probably more likely than Nokia give you an N8, tbh. | 23:21 |
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| cehteh | if you argue that you are a maemo developer and need the n900 then a n8 is not equivalent | 23:24 |
| cehteh | no matter what nokia claims | 23:24 |
| cehteh | if they dont have replacement, then money back | 23:24 |
| * cehteh wonders if one can get a N9 or N950 as replacement :P | 23:25 | |
| cehteh | well its just announced .. when it gets released, considering nokias awesome development speed, then no n900 with any warranty are out in the wild anymore .. | 23:26 |
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| Parslee | think the community could get meego or cordia on a next gen phone? | 23:29 |
| Parslee | In a couple years something might get built that is significantly better than the N900 | 23:31 |
| javispedro | note: _you_ are included in "the community" =) | 23:31 |
| Choom | the N9 | 23:31 |
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| Jaffa | jacekowski: The insurance companies usually give you cash, so you could look on eBay. Premiums usually go up for claiming, so a new in box N8 could get you more cash. | 23:33 |
| Jaffa | Though they seem to be going quite cheaply on eBay :-( | 23:33 |
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| javispedro | I'm pondering that you could probably sue Nokia for that. | 23:40 |
| javispedro | but. I bet a majority of the populace just keeps quiet when this happens as they assume n8 > n900, so they do no thing. a quick word with nokia care to tell them you think otherwise might get you something.. | 23:41 |
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| ieatlint | sue them for giving you what is officially considered a better phone? | 23:42 |
| ieatlint | i thought the frivolous lawsuit thing was an american trait ;) | 23:42 |
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| GAN900 | Google+: Facebook for people you know online | 23:43 |
| javispedro | it all depends on wheter you think the "replacement" product meets expectations. | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: jacekowski: time for ruggedizing the USB here :-S | 23:44 |
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| javispedro | at least, I'm reading local law and seems that you can force manufacturer to _repair_ your old device if replacement doesn't "work as per specifications of the original product". | 23:44 |
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| ieatlint | javispedro: actually, i think you'll find the warranty says it depends on whether nokia thinks that | 23:44 |
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| ieatlint | i suspect your only hope with trying to take legal action would be nokia finding a device for you so they save on lawyer costs | 23:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | any way money back isn't an option, as manufacturer/reseller may pay the "current value" only, means you get ~5% off per month you used the product | 23:46 |
| javispedro | yes, that's also stated here. | 23:46 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: I've sent an email to the address on the letterhead of the note explaining they "hope I enjoy my upgrade" | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | your best bet is to get an *expensive* "replacement" and sell on ebay to trade in for a "new" N900 | 23:48 |
| ieatlint | the n8 does make a nice camera anyway, hehe | 23:48 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: I think that's the best course of action as, being optimist, I believe they think they're doing you a favor (giving you a "better" device vs making you wait and getting a repaired/refurbished n900) | 23:48 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Aye | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 23:49 |
| Jaffa | Anyway, bed time | 23:49 |
| javispedro | gnite Jaffa. | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | night Jaffa | 23:49 |
| Jaffa | More stress testing of N950 tomorrow ;-) | 23:49 |
| macmaN | Jaffa: are you able to sign into nokia account? | 23:50 |
| macmaN | for maps and them? | 23:50 |
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| Parslee | javva make a fun youtube someday | 23:52 |
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| jacekowski | Jaffa: it's insurance that comes with my bank account | 23:58 |
| jacekowski | Jaffa: and it's fixed fee | 23:58 |
| jacekowski | Jaffa: it's £80/claim though | 23:58 |
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