IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-06-27

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divan	user0-, yes, I know ) axel is also the jump in figure skating. the hardest one.	00:01
user0-	fetching data package info is just taking too long	00:06
* user0- is expecting one fucking long list		00:08
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cityLights	time to dream	00:11
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arvut	are joins and quits autoexcluded in this channel btw?	00:13
alterego	arvut: it's a client setting ..	00:14
arvut	don't think I've added a rule for that for this channel	00:14
arvut	might have to check then	00:15
alterego	Well, I see them	00:15
MohammadAG	alterego, any problems with wifi in the latest meego version?	00:15
alterego	So it must be :P	00:15
alterego	MohammadAG: I've never witnessed an issue with wifi	00:15
alterego	But some people seem to, I think it's a combination of buggy driver and certain routers.	00:16
* MohammadAG kills dhcp		00:17
arvut	O.o	00:18
arvut	why would you kill dhcp?	00:18
MohammadAG	alterego, I noticed you can strobe the flash in the camera app, I'm guessing there are no checks?	00:18
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MohammadAG	arvut, why not, manual IP assigning ftw	00:19
arvut	oh ic :)	00:19
alterego	MohammadAG: I think the firmware takes care of that.	00:20
alterego	It wont fire more than it can handle.	00:20
alterego	I'd have to check though	00:20
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SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: It depends.	00:23
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: It will not strobe more than 500ms. But.	00:23
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: There are no restrictions in the driver from it strobing 500ms spaced 10ms apart.	00:24
SpeedEvil	Don't do that, it will fry stuff.	00:24
MohammadAG	alterego, ^	00:25
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alterego	Fair nuff	00:26
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, I just tried it three times, was sure MeeGo didn't implement checks :p	00:26
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, FYI, the strobing is flashlight mode	00:26
MohammadAG	the low power kind, not the full burst	00:26
SpeedEvil	ah - then that's fine	00:27
SpeedEvil	it can go forever	00:27
alterego	Well, not forever ;)	00:27
SpeedEvil	I've had it running for several hours to drain the battery as a calibrated load	00:27
alterego	Heh	00:27
SpeedEvil	And stuck a luxmeter on it at the beginning and end	00:27
SpeedEvil	same	00:27
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MohammadAG	alterego, now I'm getting wifi is not available on the device :P	00:31
alterego	Heh	00:32
alterego	I am suprised the wifi is still so crap for people, networking is the most fundamental part of an OS imo :/	00:33
MohammadAG	alterego, it always worked before :P	00:34
arvut	alterego: in meego or maemo?	00:34
alterego	arvut: meego	00:34
arvut	ah.. well it sucked in maemo (massive powerdrain) until the october firmware last year	00:35
arvut	now I think its fairly awesome	00:35
alterego	Well, I'd like to think we have better, newer drivers in MeeGo ;)	00:36
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arvut	the current ones seems to be good enough. what we need are better batteries :P	00:37
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SpeedEvil	There are 1600mAh batteries on ebay	00:38
arvut	same size	00:39
arvut	?	00:39
MohammadAG	reboot fixed it, yay	00:39
arvut	I bought an extended battery from mugen-power, 2400mAh. awesome but big and heavy	00:40
arvut	MohammadAG: fixed what? reboots seems to do the job for everyone lately :P	00:40
MohammadAG	wifi not being available	00:42
arvut	ahh	00:42
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Atarii	arvut does the bigger battery mean the back doesn't fit on?	00:45
arvut	Atarii: you get a new one with it, got a hole but no lid for the camera.	00:46
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arvut	and ofcourse a switch to turn cam on/off	00:46
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Atarii	ah ok	00:47
Atarii	got any pics/link?	00:47
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Atarii	was just looking into a spare battery + external charger	00:47
arvut	good to have with ya, I use the original mostly but when I need more stable powersource I'll switch to the bigger one.	00:47
arvut	Atarii: google mugen power n900, hard to miss ;)	00:48
Atarii	ok thanks	00:48
arvut	yw	00:49
Atarii	ah I see, think I'll stick with something smaller	00:51
Atarii	although, do younotice a lot of difference?	00:51
arvut	yeah, its not even twice as big but I get almost 3 times longer wifitime with it	00:53
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Atarii	wow that is quite significant	00:53
Atarii	decisions, decisions!	00:53
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arvut	yeah, like I said: good to have with you but I use the original one mostly. other one is just a backup or for heavy stuff	00:54
arvut	not too expensive either way. but that 1600mAh SpeedEvil spoke of sounds interesting tho	00:55
Atarii	might just get a couple of standard ones, pretty cheap on ebay	00:56
SpeedEvil	There is a list on the wiki somewhere with tested results.	00:57
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javispedro	lcuk: congratulations!	00:58
SpeedEvil	Oh - indeed !	00:58
Atarii	thanks SpeedEvil	00:58
arvut	SpeedEvil: do you know if that 1600 one is the same size/fits inside the original backcover?	00:58
SpeedEvil	yes	00:59
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mikki-kun	MohammadAG: just wanted to say a personal thank you on your work on the lock-screen btw :) looks awesome and the sliding mechanism looks so much smoother than on the original lockscreen :)	01:25
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MohammadAG	mikki-kun, you're welcome :D	01:29
MohammadAG	it also works on MeeGo as of 5 minutes ago	01:30
mikki-kun	MohammadAG: well, i am not into meego :) i will stick to maemo, didn	01:31
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mikki-kun	didn't see so far what makes it better than maemo :)	01:32
MohammadAG	it's open, that's all	01:32
mikki-kun	does it have openssh-server/client? :)	01:32
MohammadAG	from first boot	01:32
mikki-kun	ok, then i might actually give it a shot soon :)	01:33
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MohammadAG	time to test Sociality on it	01:33
mikki-kun	socialty is a social network app?	01:33
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MohammadAG	facebook	01:33
mikki-kun	ewww, the worst of them all x)	01:34
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mikki-kun	MohammadAG: will you also make some sort of gui-app for the lockscreen maybe so we could throw stuff into different regions we want? :)	01:38
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arvut	hi again, whats skyhost?	01:42
mikki-kun	i think it has something to do with skype	01:42
mikki-kun	or maybe gps	01:43
arvut	oh yeah, that might make sense	01:43
arvut	sky as in short for skype :)	01:43
arvut	so whats this new lockscreen app you've been chattin about?	01:44
arvut	something to replace the slider with the clock next to it?	01:44
mikki-kun	arvut: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1655 <--- seems skype :)	01:44
povbot	Bug 1655: skyhost hogging cpu after closing skype	01:44
arvut	povbot: O.o	01:44
povbot	arvut: Error: "O.o" is not a valid command.	01:44
arvut	haha	01:45
mikki-kun	ROFL XD	01:45
arvut	I'm tired x)	01:45
mikki-kun	me as well ^^	01:45
mikki-kun	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1039475 <--- that's the lockscreen :)	01:45
arvut	eyeballing povbot not valid =P	01:45
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MohammadAG	I need to update the screenshot	01:48
MohammadAG	http://i52.tinypic.com/2090uf7.jpg	01:48
arvut	MohammadAG: neat stuff ;)	01:50
arvut	gonna install it tomorrow. now, sleeph!	01:51
arvut	so, nn, going astray again	01:51
mikki-kun	MohammadAG: maybe you could introduce a switch for the media player for people who don't use the n900 to play music like me :) ohhh and one "bug" i found was in regards of the language 0.1 had... it didn't look up the language i am using, but the localtion i am living in, so when i told my n900 "use thai localization, but english as language" it would show up thai-numbers/letters	01:51
MohammadAG	mikki-kun, Qt bug sadly	01:52
arvut	haha	01:52
mikki-kun	especially annoying due to nokia eff'ing up the swiss localization which they blantly put as "ch_fr" which is _WRONG_! not all swiss people speak french -.-	01:52
MohammadAG	I'm simply passing the format to display date, it gets the localization itself	01:52
mikki-kun	just wanted to mention it :) maybe you could introduce a small settings dialog for that option in the future for people who want to tell their devices where they are at, but want to use a different language while operating it	01:53
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LordVan	hi	02:10
pronto	hi	02:10
LordVan	got a question: i wanted to do apt-get dist-upgrade to get PR 1.3	02:10
LordVan	but it wants debianutils	02:10
LordVan	which in turn seems to have some deps so it wants to remove just about all apps I installed	02:11
LordVan	any ideas why?	02:11
javispedro	do not use apt-get dist-upgrade to get PR1.3, use application manager	02:13
javispedro	(though it will probably also fail)	02:13
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LordVan	it does not show it	02:18
LordVan	i get the fealing that i got it already and that phone info shows wrong version	02:19
LordVan	since the last update i did sorta manually :)	02:19
merlin1991	LordVan: what version is your mp-fremantle-generic-pr	02:20
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LordVan	lol not installed status 'pn'	02:24
LordVan	wth..	02:24
LordVan	should I ust install that?	02:24
LordVan	i think i might have accidentally removed it ;)	02:24
merlin1991	mp-fremantle-generic-pr is the metapackge that holds all system software (pr version)	02:25
LordVan	k so I should reinstall it right?	02:26
merlin1991	unless you installed cssu	02:27
LordVan	not yet was going to, but not sure if i got pr1.3 and the faq says i need it	02:28
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Macer	ugh	02:28
Macer	my damn usb port fell off	02:28
Macer	inside my n900!!	02:28
Macer	is that fixable???	02:29
javispedro	Macer: right now??	02:29
Macer	earlier	02:29
trx	there are several threads on TMO Macer	02:29
trx	one is sticky in N900 section	02:29
trx	check it out	02:29
Macer	trx: simple solder?	02:29
Macer	ok	02:29
trx	if possible	02:30
SpeedEvil	Macer: It depends - the general answer is probably not easy.	02:30
Macer	i will take a look	02:30
trx	depends on damage	02:30
SpeedEvil	The pads can be ripped off in some cases, which makes the repair annoying	02:30
Macer	can a charging pad charge it?	02:30
SpeedEvil	huh?	02:30
Macer	a charging pad to give the battery power	02:30
SpeedEvil	no.	02:30
LordVan	hmm unmet deps:	02:31
LordVan	he following packages have unmet dependencies:	02:31
Macer	damn	02:31
SpeedEvil	There are a variety of 'emergency' battery chargers, and I think an actual nokia one	02:31
Macer	isnt worth it	02:31
LordVan	mp-fremantle-generic-pr: Depends: libsndfile1 (= 1.0.20-0maemo1+0m5) but 1.0.20-0maemo1+ogg is to be installed	02:31
Macer	i would have gotten the pad if it worked	02:31
SpeedEvil	http://www.bestofferbuy.com/Battery-AC-Wall-USB-Port-Charger-for-Nokia-BL-5J-BL5J-p-56088.html?currency=GBP&utm_source=gbase&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=gbase_uk	02:32
LordVan	Depends: libsdl-mixer1.2 (= 1:1.2.6-5+0m5)	02:32
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Macer	but to buy a battery charger for a phone that may not work	02:32
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Macer	i need to repair it	02:32
Macer	it seems to have come clean off	02:32
LordVan	should i uninstall ogg support?	02:32
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SpeedEvil	Macer: Do you have the USB port?	02:32
Macer	yes	02:33
SpeedEvil	Macer: If so, can you take a high resolution image of your bottom.	02:33
Macer	of the usb port?	02:33
SpeedEvil	Err - your USB port bottom where it attaches to the PCB	02:33
SpeedEvil	Sorry - mostly asleep.	02:33
Macer	if i can get it out	02:33
Macer	sure	02:33
merlin1991	LordVan: ogg support souldn't conflict with the mp	02:33
merlin1991	I suggest a reflash	02:33
SpeedEvil	If it's not off, take the battery out!	02:34
Macer	it is off	02:34
Macer	battery died	02:34
LordVan	i don't really want to reflash if possible though.	02:34
Macer	when i tried to charge it	02:35
the_lord	Hi! is there a way to filter sms before the notifications and the insertion into the database?	02:35
LordVan	although I think it might be better since I do have some other issues (like having to manually start pulse after reboot sometimes:))	02:35
SpeedEvil	Macer: you're trying to work out if the tracks on the PCB have been ripped off, or if the solder joint has failed. If the solder joint has failed, repair is fairlyeasy	02:36
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Macer	ok	02:39
Macer	where can i upload this? :)	02:39
LordVan	merlin1991: reflash leaves /home untouched right?	02:39
merlin1991	yes	02:39
LordVan	well i still make a backup anyway. ;) I have to still use M$ windoze for flashing do I?	02:40
merlin1991	LordVan: you can flash from windows and linux	02:41
merlin1991	~flashing	02:41
infobot	i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	02:41
LordVan	nice ;) is there some way to flash SSU directly? ;)	02:41
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merlin1991	sadly not	02:41
Macer	http://tech.rancorous.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/IMG_20110626_183555.jpg	02:41
Macer	there it is	02:42
Macer	does that look too serious?	02:42
MohammadAG	VOTE VOTE VOTE!!!1 :P http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197	02:42
povbot	Bug 197: kernel builds, but device keeps rebooting	02:42
MohammadAG	povbot, stfu	02:42
povbot	MohammadAG: Error: "stfu" is not a valid command.	02:42
MohammadAG	well it is now	02:42
Macer	haha	02:43
LordVan	ic so i have to install PR1.3 then follow ssu install faq	02:44
merlin1991	yes	02:44
merlin1991	but it's pretty straight forward	02:44
LordVan	it'd be cool to have some repartitioned firmwafre with more / page though (i know there r tuturials, but u know;)	02:45
LordVan	/ space not page	02:45
Macer	SpeedEvil: http://tech.rancorous.net/?p=12	02:45
LordVan	should type slower when chatting on my n900 ;)	02:45
Macer	that is probably the best i can do as far as a pic goes .. but hopefully that helps	02:45
merlin1991	LordVan: you can't get more / space	02:46
LordVan	err i meant /opt sry	02:46
SpeedEvil	Macer: Ok - the brown bits are the underside of the copper tracks where it's been ripped from the board	02:46
LordVan	/home respectively	02:46
merlin1991	MohammadAG: mind to paste your sed for increased /home space?	02:46
MohammadAG	paste? no	02:47
SpeedEvil	Macer: The good part is that the 5 pads at the back seem to have perhaps peeled off cleanly.	02:47
merlin1991	MohammadAG: paste as in copy paste to here :D	02:47
MohammadAG	sed -i 's/2048/XXXX/g' bigfateMMCimage.bin	02:47
merlin1991	LordVan: ^ there you go :)	02:47
SpeedEvil	Macer: In principle, if this is true - with a little glue to hold it properly onto the board, it should work OK	02:47
MohammadAG	you can extend an existing /home	02:47
MohammadAG	easily, with gparted	02:48
LordVan	true if i resize the fat32	02:48
merlin1991	umount mydocs, resize home partition, resize home fs, redo fat partition	02:48
LordVan	would be good for me ;)	02:48
Macer	so that small brown speck is a piece of the board?	02:48
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Macer	was it already being held on with glue??	02:48
LordVan	just someone tell me why i didn't think of just using gparted ;)	02:49
Macer	well.. i don't have a tool to open my n900 so i'm kind of screwed for the time being anyways until i get a repair kit	02:49
Macer	i didn't force it. do these things just wear off the board?	02:50
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Macer	i've been a baby with my n900 :)	02:50
LordVan	anyway I shall re-flash tomorrow then install parted and get that sorted :) too bad stupid cam app needs fat32 fs	02:51
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LordVan	anyway thanks for the help merlin1991 & MohammadAG i really gotta sleep now it's 01:52 here and I gotta get up in the morning. nite &cya	02:53
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SpeedEvil	Macer: yes	02:57
SpeedEvil	Macer: The spot is a part of the board.	02:57
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SpeedEvil	Macer: The tracks are made from copper, and are held securely to the structure of the board by being plated to it - there isn't any glue as such	02:58
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Macer	so then it should just kind of sit right back in place huh?	03:01
Macer	awesome	03:01
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Macer	i'll try it out once i order a repair kit	03:02
Macer	hopefully i don't buy the tools for no reason	03:02
SpeedEvil	Macer: I'm unsure - I think you need hot air soldering gear to put it back on	03:05
SpeedEvil	I don't think you can do it with a normal iron.	03:05
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: USB ports - can they be soldered on with a conventional iron if the pads are OK?	03:06
FIQ\|n900	the USB port on my previous N900 went out :(	03:08
SpeedEvil	:/	03:08
FIQ\|n900	a year ago though, so i'm fine now	03:09
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, they can, afaik two users fixed their N900s	03:09
FIQ\|n900	but my charger has started to act weird again	03:09
FIQ\|n900	just like then..	03:09
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HtheB	o/	03:44
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the_lord	Hi! anyone here maemo dbus expert???	03:51
HtheB	not me	03:52
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the_lord	I need to prevent a sms to arrive, I already got the sms listening to dbus messages, but I don't know how to prevent the event propagation	03:53
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HtheB	something like a blacklist	03:56
HtheB	?	03:56
SpeedEvil	I vaguely recall that the camera-switcher app does something similr by remapping dbus somehow	03:56
SpeedEvil	I don't recall the details	03:57
SpeedEvil	maybe something to look into	03:57
Sc0rpius	maybe I'd take a look at the source code of smscon that does commands when specific SMS messages arrive	03:57
the_lord	HtheB: yes	03:57
SpeedEvil	Is smscon open?	03:57
Sc0rpius	well if it's in extras devel it has to be open	03:57
SpeedEvil	oh	03:58
the_lord	let me see smscon	03:58
HtheB	Sc0rpius: who said that? :)	03:58
Sc0rpius	how can you submit a binary package to autobuilder?	03:59
Sc0rpius	you have to submit sources. Autobuilder will generate the binaries for you	03:59
Sc0rpius	http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/smscon/0.8.1-3/	03:59
Sc0rpius	you can download the source there, or using apt-get source smscon	03:59
HtheB	there are 2 categories	04:00
HtheB	free and non-free	04:00
HtheB	closed source is "non-free"	04:00
HtheB	which doesnt need to send the souce	04:00
HtheB	afair	04:00
Sc0rpius	hmmm	04:00
Sc0rpius	you might be right, though I haven't seen the first non free package in extras devel yet	04:01
the_lord	the source is there, and it's python based, win	04:01
Sc0rpius	most of those go directly to the Ovi store	04:01
Sc0rpius	nice the_lord	04:02
Sc0rpius	though the program is kinda usess	04:02
Sc0rpius	useless	04:02
Sc0rpius	the first thing people do when they steal a phone is to take out the SIM card and put a new one	04:03
Sc0rpius	so there must be a software that destroys the phone if it detects a different SIM card :)	04:03
Sc0rpius	or render it unusable	04:03
HtheB	Sc0rpius: how about putting no sim at all =)	04:04
Sc0rpius	yeah that too	04:04
HtheB	xD	04:04
Sc0rpius	the main idea of smscon is that you can send SMS messages when they steal your phone to do actions	04:04
the_lord	Sc0rpius: My carrier sends me a sms delivery message every time I send a SMS	04:04
Sc0rpius	are you sure is the carrier?	04:05
HtheB	the_lord: lol!	04:05
HtheB	xD	04:05
the_lord	Sc0rpius: I want to filter that spam	04:05
Sc0rpius	because that's a setting in the phone	04:05
SpeedEvil	you can turn off delivery confirmation	04:05
the_lord	Sc0rpius: yes, i'm sure, it's deactivated	04:05
Sc0rpius	hmm	04:05
HtheB	Sc0rpius: that will not come up as an sms	04:05
Sc0rpius	that's weird that the carrier has turned on forcedly delivery receipts to all SMS	04:05
HtheB	it will come up as a "notification"	04:05
Sc0rpius	SMS traffic is extremely high already, why would they double it...	04:05
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the_lord	Sc0rpius: I really don't know	04:06
HtheB	the_lord: afaik, there is already such app	04:06
HtheB	for the N900	04:06
Sc0rpius	it will come up as a notification in the phone, but it's an SMS.	04:06
Sc0rpius	with the delivery receipt flag	04:06
HtheB	blacklist sms	04:06
SpeedEvil	Sc0rpius: conversations ->settings -> delivery reports	04:06
Sc0rpius	the problem is	04:07
SpeedEvil	Untick that	04:07
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Sc0rpius	those delivery receipts come with the receipient number as the "from" address	04:07
merlin1991	does anybody know where the busybox "logger" logs to?	04:07
Sc0rpius	I'm not sure you can block a specific kind of SMS, but phone numbers in the blacklist	04:07
SpeedEvil	Check to see if the delivery confirmation has become set.	04:07
SpeedEvil	If it has, unset ut	04:08
SpeedEvil	it	04:08
HtheB	the_lord: what carrier do you have?	04:08
HtheB	which*	04:08
Sc0rpius	SpeedEvil, it seems the_lord already checked that	04:08
SpeedEvil	ah	04:08
SpeedEvil	the_lord: Did you?	04:08
the_lord	HtheB: Movistar Vzla	04:09
the_lord	it's already turned off	04:09
SpeedEvil	Night	04:09
Sc0rpius	the_lord weird, Movistar doesn't force delivery receipts...	04:09
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HtheB	night	04:10
HtheB	the_lord: check the website of your carrier	04:10
Sc0rpius	does it happen with every phone number or just with some?	04:10
HtheB	im sure there is an option to disable it :)	04:10
the_lord	HtheB: that's a bad joke	04:10
Sc0rpius	hehehe	04:10
the_lord	Sc0rpius: every one	04:10
Sc0rpius	really weird.	04:11
HtheB	the_lord: bad joke?	04:11
the_lord	does any of you uses smscon ?	04:11
the_lord	HtheB: 3rd world carrier	04:11
Sc0rpius	and if you put the SIM card in another phone and send a message, you still get the receipts?	04:11
HtheB	the_lord: so?...	04:11
HtheB	I didnt made any joke	04:12
HtheB	just pointing you out to check out if you can disable it by entering some star/hash code or something	04:12
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the_lord	HtheB: the joke is you assuming that info is in my carrier's website	04:13
Sc0rpius	hehehe	04:14
HtheB	...?	04:14
Sc0rpius	well since I'm from Venezuela too I knew what he meant	04:14
HtheB	what is wrong that a simple faq couldnt be on a website?	04:14
Sc0rpius	carriers here doesn't have a website that you can login and do something else than see how much you owe	04:14
HtheB	well, there could be someone on the internetzzz that has the same problem	04:15
HtheB	maybe he found out how he turned it off? :p	04:15
HtheB	I mean, I dont know	04:15
HtheB	xD	04:15
Sc0rpius	the first thing I'd try is to put the SIM in another phone and send a message.	04:15
the_lord	HtheB: that info is not in my carrier's website, and if I call and explain this problem, I will short-circuit the poor guy from support	04:15
Sc0rpius	because I'd still think it's my phone that's weird.	04:15
the_lord	Sc0rpius: let me try that	04:15
HtheB	website looks very flashy if you ask me :p	04:16
HtheB	http://www.movistar.com.ve/particulares/movil/	04:16
Sc0rpius	it sucks	04:17
Sc0rpius	and it doesn't have the 3G band the N900 uses.	04:17
HtheB	that sux	04:17
HtheB	well, u still have edge	04:17
Sc0rpius	HE	04:18
the_lord	now that we are here, why in the world when I remove my n900 battery, my phone loses date and time info?	04:18
Sc0rpius	because I'm with another provider and my 3G works perfectly :)	04:18
HtheB	the_lord: its normal	04:18
Sc0rpius	that's totally normal	04:18
Sc0rpius	but if you have the automatic network time set when you turn the phone again it'll get the time from your provider	04:18
HtheB	Sc0rpius: does movistar use that function? :p	04:19
the_lord	I don't think it's normal that the phone enters in the first time wizard	04:19
Sc0rpius	very good question HtheB	04:19
HtheB	the_lord: it's not a "wizard"	04:19
Sc0rpius	Digitel supports it though, I have the "Update automatically" setting on and it works	04:19
HtheB	Sc0rpius: T-Mobile doesnt (here in the Netherlands)	04:20
HtheB	Vodafone does though	04:20
HtheB	I have Tmob and the 3G sux ass	04:20
HtheB	>.<	04:20
HtheB	but it's a very known problem	04:20
HtheB	anyway	04:20
HtheB	it's 3.20 already :(	04:20
HtheB	have to work tomorrow .... or... today....	04:21
HtheB	xD	04:21
the_lord	HtheB: bye, thx for the help	04:21
HtheB	np	04:22
HtheB	did you put the sim in a different phone now?	04:22
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the_lord	HtheB: yes, trying	04:23
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the_lord	Sc0rpius: do you use smscon? I don't see anything here to prevent sms propagation	04:26
the_lord	Sc0rpius: I guess the commands go to the inbox, that's weird	04:26
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the_lord	Sc0rpius: it's the phone	04:32
the_lord	in my gf's N8, if I disable delivery confirmation, it does not arrive	04:32
the_lord	f**k	04:32
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Sc0rpius	reboot the phone	04:40
Sc0rpius	and after it reboots, re-check the delivery reports setting	04:40
Sc0rpius	and no, I don't use the smscon	04:40
Sc0rpius	actually if you disabled in the N8, it should appear already disabled in the N900	04:41
Sc0rpius	because I think that setting is stored in the SIM	04:41
the_lord	Sc0rpius: nothing, I'm doomed	04:42
Sc0rpius	you're still getting them?	04:43
Sc0rpius	well I don't have a Movistar SIM to tell you it happens in my N900 too :(	04:44
the_lord	Sc0rpius: I guess I'll try tomorrow with one of my coworker's sim	04:45
Sc0rpius	that will work too but a better test would find another N900 and put your SIM on it	04:46
Sc0rpius	and your gf's SIM in your phone?	04:46
the_lord	I'm testing it	04:49
the_lord	but I'm guessing my phone does not send the appropiate code to movistar	04:49
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Sc0rpius	you haven't installed any other SMS related software to your phone have you?	04:54
MohammadAG	what's wrong?	04:58
Sc0rpius	the_lord receives delivery receipts when he sends SMS even though he has that option disabled	04:58
MohammadAG	maybe the operator is to blame?	05:00
MohammadAG	also, what's wrong with them? they're just one line :P	05:00
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Sc0rpius	he tried his SIM in another phone and doesn't happen	05:01
Sc0rpius	it gets annoying	05:01
Sc0rpius	in this country, nobody calls, everybody texts	05:01
the_lord	Sc0rpius: smscon passes the sms to the inbox	05:01
Sc0rpius	oh :(	05:02
the_lord	Sc0rpius: there's got to be a way	05:02
the_lord	I'm halfway through :P	05:02
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Sc0rpius	there's a Messageblocker but all it does is stop notifications, but messages also go to the inbox	05:04
Sc0rpius	http://maemo.org/packages/view/messageblocker/	05:04
MohammadAG	he wants messages blocked?	05:05
Sc0rpius	the delivery reports yes	05:05
Sc0rpius	but that's so weird... I'm pretty sure it won't happen to me if I have a SIM of his carrier	05:05
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MohammadAG	maybe the gconf file's corrupt?	05:06
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Sc0rpius	but I don't know anybody with a Movistar SIM, it's not very popular where I live hehehe	05:06
MohammadAG	anyway, off to bed :P	05:06
Sc0rpius	hmmm	05:07
the_lord	MohammadAG: what gconf?	05:07
Sc0rpius	let's check that	05:07
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the_lord	Sc0rpius: /apps/osso/rtcom-messaging-ui -> enable_delivery_reports = false	05:11
Sc0rpius	hmm	05:11
Sc0rpius	weird.	05:11
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the_lord	Sc0rpius: it's time for #dbus	05:15
Sc0rpius	well first I'd try to send a manual SMS	05:15
Sc0rpius	without using conversations	05:15
Sc0rpius	http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS	05:15
Sc0rpius	the second example I guess	05:15
the_lord	Sc0rpius: done that	05:15
the_lord	Sc0rpius: you mean send it to check for the confirmation message?	05:16
Sc0rpius	yeah using AT commands directly in the phone's modem	05:16
Sc0rpius	and see if the confirmation message occurs	05:16
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wblaze	I've got a new favorite device manufacturer	05:57
wblaze	used to think RIM made sturdy devices, but I've put my n900 through so much in the past week or so that none of my blackberries would have survived	05:58
wblaze	heh	05:58
jonwil	Boy do I wish I had header files for libconnui and libconnui-cellular right now :(	06:05
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DocScrutinizer	(DocScrutinizer: USB ports - can they be soldered on with a conventional iron if the pads are OK?) yes	07:06
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DocScrutinizer	Morning!	08:55
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Corsac	MohammadAG: hmhm, was your media player ever uploaded to extras?	09:43
mece	\o	09:44
mece	Corsac, it's in devel afaik	09:45
mece	Corsac, no wait it's not.	09:47
mece	Corsac, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=988477&postcount=1	09:47
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* DocScrutinizer curses tmo stylesheet saying "all centered" for display of particular posts like ^^^		09:52
DocScrutinizer	ugly like my arse	09:53
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Termana	good morning	10:29
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cloudyLights	mornng	10:33
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RST38h	mourning	10:33
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cloudyLights	now that I submitted my project to garage, how in here need I talk to	10:35
cloudyLights	in order to puch it in	10:35
cloudyLights	s/puch/push/	10:35
infobot	cloudyLights meant: in order to push it in	10:35
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RST38h	OMFG, finally, a worthy Slashdot comment: http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2272328&cid=36581172	10:40
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* RST38h cannot believe his own eyes		10:40
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cloudyLights	nice	10:42
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DocScrutinizer	cloudyLights: push it?	11:02
cloudyLights	hi Doc, I used the name you gave	11:03
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cloudyLights	I am now waiting for "someone" to approve my garage request for profile-appointment	11:03
cloudyLights	then I can apply to extras-devel	11:04
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DocScrutinizer	X-Fade is doing this	11:05
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mva	uhm	11:43
mva	is it possible to change gpg key on garage, if any? :)	11:43
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X-Fade	mva: Yes, on your account page.	11:45
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mva	>_<' i see only ssh there ;(	11:45
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X-Fade	mva: Ah yeah, I can only be set on accept. Shall I send you a new invitation then?	11:47
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cloudyLights	X-Fade: hi dud	11:48
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cloudyLights	or maybe a chick?	11:48
cloudyLights	anyway , hi there	11:48
mva	nah ;) I just want to know, if it is normal, if i write "0xBEBD2115" in the field, or i need to "gpg --export -a 0xBEDB2115" and paste output there? :)	11:49
X-Fade	mva: the latter.	11:49
mva	>_<' can you resend invite then? :)	11:50
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X-Fade	mva: Sure.	11:50
mva	thx	11:50
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MohammadAG	X-Fade, any updates on Harmattan repos? :)	11:50
cloudyLights	are they changing?	11:51
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Currently working on the Harmattan OBS build target.	11:51
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X-Fade	MohammadAG: Some, build issues I need to figure out.	11:51
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MohammadAG	need to get used to OBS then :)	11:54
MohammadAG	Jaffa, ping	11:54
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Yep, that might be a good idea.	11:54
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cloudyLights	What is OBS?	11:56
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mva	btw, can anybody confirm this bug with DrLaunch https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12292 ? ;)	11:58
povbot	Bug 12292: Crashing on changes in icons grid.	11:58
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djszapi	How can I flash the device nowadays ?	12:16
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ruskie	wait for more than 15 seconds?	12:18
SpeedEvil	I was about to say that!	12:18
hiemanshu	you flash devices? I thought you only flash people who would appreciate the value	12:20
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Jaffa	MohammadAG: pong	12:21
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crashanddie	Sup #maemo?	12:22
crashanddie	woah, that much?	12:23
SpeedEvil	yes.	12:23
crashanddie	Hold your horses!	12:23
* SpeedEvil holds his goldfish instead.		12:24
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lardman	morning	12:31
SpeedEvil	Morning.	12:32
DocScrutinizer	morning	12:33
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* lardman is feeling internet withdrawl symptoms		12:35
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SpeedEvil	That's not fun!	12:37
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BCMM	lardman: i hate to break this to you, but you may be on IRC right now	12:38
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lardman	BCMM: ;)	12:39
lardman	BCMM: but internet at work only is not fun	12:39
khertan	Morning	12:39
crashanddie	lardman, fukung.net	12:39
lardman	morning khertan	12:39
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* lardman wonders if that is work safe.....		12:39
BCMM	how complicated is it to debug an application on-device?	12:39
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BCMM	(i'm getting frustrated with a hildon-desktop crash)	12:40
SpeedEvil	gdb?	12:40
BCMM	SpeedEvil: i mean, do binaries already have symbols and so on, or would i have to build a debugging copy?	12:43
SpeedEvil	Most binaries don't have symbols	12:44
SpeedEvil	A seperate repository with builds built with the debug flag would be cool.	12:45
crashanddie	That's why RPM is awesome...	12:45
crashanddie	-debuginfo packages.	12:45
crashanddie	The RPM build process automagically strips the binaries, and puts the .debug files in a separate package	12:46
crashanddie	That way, because your application was compiled with -g, it creates a coredump	12:46
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crashanddie	you install the -debuginfo package, and fire up dbg on the binary -- it finds the debug symbols, source code (for that specific build), and you can work on the coredump.	12:46
MohammadAG	Jaffa, got the SDK handy?	12:46
crashanddie	hi MohammadAG	12:47
MohammadAG	heya crashanddie	12:47
Venemo	crashanddie :)	12:48
crashanddie	hey Venemo	12:48
Venemo	hey	12:48
Venemo	I agree with your enthusiasm about RPM	12:48
khertan	lol	12:48
khertan	rpm is a real pain ...	12:49
khertan	on meego	12:49
BCMM	hmm. i'd need to manually started h-d so i could start it through GDB. how can i kill it without it respawning?	12:49
khertan	zypper have always problem	12:49
Termana	Oh shite, head for cover its about to be an all out rpm/deb war boys.	12:49
khertan	:)	12:49
khertan	Termana: the problem isn't the package ... but the implementation ...	12:49
khertan	(this sentence is true for so many things)	12:50
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Termana	That's what she said	12:50
MohammadAG	Jaffa, can you confirm http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197 ?	12:51
povbot	Bug 197: kernel builds, but device keeps rebooting	12:51
Venemo	khertan, I'm not sure about MeeGo specifics, but RPM in general is very nice	12:51
crashanddie	the fuck, since when is colour allowed?	12:51
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MohammadAG	since DocScrutinizer removed +c	12:52
nid0	few days ago	12:52
MohammadAG	you got a problem with it? huh? huh?! :P	12:52
DocScrutinizer	eh?	12:52
jaska	yay for color filtering on clientside	12:52
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DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: you don't like it?	12:52
lardman	MohammadAG: sounds not too pleasant	12:52
hiemanshu	You got a problem with me? :P	12:52
Termana	Anyone have a rough estimate how much the total size of the Harmattan SDK is to download?	12:53
hiemanshu	Termana: scratchbox or qemu?	12:53
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MohammadAG	let's see	12:53
MohammadAG	600MB X86 rootfs	12:53
Termana	hiemanshu, scratchbox I suppose	12:53
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer, not really.	12:53
MohammadAG	600MB armel rootfs	12:54
hiemanshu	Termana: about 1.4G something	12:54
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: I removed +c to see how it works out. If there are any problems, feel free to revert to +c any time	12:54
MohammadAG	400MB scratchbox packages	12:54
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer, otherwise people start abusing it constantly.	12:54
Termana	Well that really sucks	12:54
DocScrutinizer	I'll start kicking thos epeople constantly	12:54
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer, sure, no problem.	12:54
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: you will?	12:54
hiemanshu	:/	12:54
crashanddie	also, colours really reminds me of mid-90s IRC noobs trying to appear cool.	12:55
hiemanshu	Termana: roughtly 1.8-2G, and qemu is around 1G	12:55
DocScrutinizer	+c is enabled since weeks now, no issues so far	12:55
crashanddie	fuck me, I can't believe I just said something about something that used to happen 15 years ago.	12:55
MohammadAG	now where's my rainbow script :P	12:55
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: Silly isn't it.	12:55
crashanddie	test	12:55
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* SpeedEvil is quite happy pidgin doesn't do that sort of silliness.		12:56
crashanddie	OH HAI GUYS	12:56
* nid0 claws his eyeballs out		12:56
* MohammadAG CTRL+As		12:56
hiemanshu	/clear	12:57
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: isn't it funny that you are the FIRST user abusing this feature ? :-P	12:57
Termana	crashanddie, HAI CHRISANDDYE I CUN CEE THAT PERURTLY	12:57
crashanddie	Termana, was there colour in that?	12:57
nid0	tbh, he's second after povbot occasionally flooding my screen with red	12:57
Termana	crashanddie, yes	12:58
Termana	I have 20:20 vision	12:58
Termana	lol	12:58
crashanddie	Termana, when you highlight me, xchat paints it red	12:58
crashanddie	Termana, so the colours are ignored, apparently.	12:58
robbiethe1st	So, guys, I've got a bit of an odd question: I got my first voicemail, a good 10 months after I got this phone.,... How do I listen to it?	12:58
Termana	crashanddie, oh you meant in mine	12:58
Termana	crashanddie, no, none	12:58
MohammadAG	*151 usually	12:58
crashanddie	ok	12:58
crashanddie	robbiethe1st, that really depends on your network operator	12:58
nid0	robbiethe1st: dial the number your operator provides for voicemail	12:58
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robbiethe1st	oh, ok. so there's no auto-dial button?	12:59
crashanddie	usually it's by holding the 1 key	12:59
crashanddie	on regular phones	12:59
Jaffa	MohammadAG: I have the Qt SDK on this Windows box, yes. Won't be able to play with it until lunch tho	12:59
robbiethe1st	Well, nokia n900...	12:59
robbiethe1st	should have said that	12:59
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SpeedEvil	robbiethe1st: It will usually add the contacts from the SIM to contacts.	13:00
SpeedEvil	you can then find the one labelled voicemail	13:00
crashanddie	robbiethe1st, just hold the 1 key	13:00
crashanddie	robbiethe1st, when dialing.	13:00
MohammadAG	Jaffa, SB SDK	13:00
robbiethe1st	ok	13:00
robbiethe1st	What surprised me was that you couldn't click on the "1 voicemail" icon to have it auto-dial	13:01
crashanddie	did that work?	13:01
robbiethe1st	tapping? no. Haven't tried the 1 trick yet	13:02
crashanddie	not tapping, holding it.	13:02
DocScrutinizer	yep, works	13:02
robbiethe1st	No cellphone access here.	13:02
crashanddie	actually, holding 1 only work if your simcard provides the voicemail number	13:02
crashanddie	s/work/works/	13:03
infobot	crashanddie meant: actually, holding 1 only works if your simcard provides the voicemail number	13:03
robbiethe1st	Ok, so that will work	13:03
DocScrutinizer	mine doesn't as I have changed it to something else ;-P	13:03
DocScrutinizer	I don't like that feature	13:03
crashanddie	if your simcard doesn't, you can edit the number it's supposed to dial from the contacts menu or something	13:03
crashanddie	google it	13:03
DocScrutinizer	so I changed it to *103# which will pop up my balance USSD	13:03
robbiethe1st	Hm... how do you access your voicemail externally? Like, from another phone?	13:03
crashanddie	call your own number, get to voicemail, hit * or #, then type your voicemail code.	13:04
Termana	DocScrutinizer wouldn't use voicemail	13:04
robbiethe1st	Ok	13:04
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cloudyLights	khertan: hi there	13:04
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DocScrutinizer	there's also a dedicated number usually, like <your-network>55<your-number>	13:05
cloudyLights	khertan: I used the dependencies in openvpn-applet and got my package working	13:05
MohammadAG	*151 always works for me	13:06
cloudyLights	submitted to garage	13:06
robbiethe1st	so, for t-mobile, that'd be?	13:06
MohammadAG	the long version is 00972544151000 (at least in IL)	13:06
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cloudyLights	where is that chap that said he got the cellular tower info using ofnofo	13:06
MohammadAG	jonwil	13:07
jonwil	hi	13:07
cloudyLights	hi there	13:07
cloudyLights	well, I saw you wrote some lines here yesterday	13:07
cloudyLights	so: did it work?	13:08
jonwil	What I have is some code that runs on a N900 with fully updated Fremantle build	13:08
cloudyLights	how often do you change towers?	13:08
jonwil	The dumper/logger worked	13:08
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: hi :-)	13:08
cloudyLights	and ofneo - right , that stack to "talk" to the gsm	13:08
jonwil	I have a nice fat list of all the incoming Cell Broadcast messages that came in whilst I was out	13:08
SpeedEvil	jonwil: :)	13:08
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jonwil	I am not using ofono	13:09
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DocScrutinizer	cloudyLights: was it you that's been interested in a python SMSCB logger?	13:09
MohammadAG	funny how it's a 3 byte patch	13:09
cloudyLights	yes, its me	13:09
jonwil	I am just using a few ofono cell broadcast SMS decode functions	13:09
MohammadAG	wonder how much time that would've taken nokia to fix	13:09
* jonwil wishes he had headers for libconnui and libconnui-cellular :P		13:09
cloudyLights	so, is ofneo - still alive?	13:09
cloudyLights	can now ppl write program to "talk" with the cellular network?	13:10
DocScrutinizer	cloudyLights: http://paste.debian.net/121054/ good enough?	13:10
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cloudyLights	sweet!	13:10
* jonwil wishes he could find a way to detect the 4 events he wants to detect		13:10
SpeedEvil	Where's the patcher script?	13:10
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: doesn't work	13:11
cloudyLights	as I got 10 min b4 my next meeting...	13:11
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: jonwil will or already has piblished a binary written is c	13:11
SpeedEvil	ah	13:11
jonwil	Already published it on the mailing list earlier	13:11
jonwil	its just a simple .c file	13:11
cloudyLights	can I help in writing a deamon to handle these cell tower change events?	13:12
Venemo	crashanddie, ping	13:12
DocScrutinizer	I'll join it into my flawed script, as that script does nice backup, testing, log etc	13:12
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cloudyLights	jonwil: so you get broadcast mgs from two towers , when in one place?	13:12
SpeedEvil	jonwil: Ah - don't have SB setup	13:13
cloudyLights	and when you move under 20 km/hour - how often do these tower change?	13:13
jonwil	I cant give any info on how often the towers change	13:13
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jonwil	since that depends on the cell network in your area	13:13
jonwil	and exactly where the towers are	13:13
jonwil	:)	13:13
cloudyLights	I mean: how can I tell when I am near my bus station? I may have three diffrent towers there...	13:13
SpeedEvil	cloudyLights: Depends. you can change tower every 100m.	13:13
SpeedEvil	cloudyLights: Or every 30km	13:14
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jonwil	I need a way to detect a change between 2G and 3G, a way to detect a disconnection (e.g. goes out of range of the tower), a change of operator (i.e. roaming to a different operator) and a switch into or out of airplane mode (i.e. any switch to a mode that shuts off the cell modem)	13:14
cloudyLights	let me ask this: can I use tower msgs to know I need to get off the bus ?	13:14
jonwil	Doubt it	13:15
jonwil	Not reliable enough	13:15
jonwil	and also your network may not even send Cell Broadcast SMS messages	13:15
jonwil	Only way to be sure is GPS	13:15
Venemo	jonwil, I bet there are some D-Bus signals	13:15
cloudyLights	ut then I need to turn it off	13:15
cloudyLights	and on	13:16
DocScrutinizer	cloudyLights: smscb is NOT the way for any location awareness, as any such tower name smscb are sent rather infrequently	13:16
SpeedEvil	jonwil: 'gsmmon'	13:16
SpeedEvil	jonwil: package	13:16
cloudyLights	DocScrutinizer: where can I see smscb.py - to try it out?	13:16
SpeedEvil	cloudyLights: you can read tower details without it.	13:16
DocScrutinizer	hehe, on my home, for now :-P	13:17
DocScrutinizer	mompls	13:17
SpeedEvil	cloudyLights: number I mean	13:17
jonwil	where can I find this gsmmon package?	13:17
cloudyLights	how?	13:17
jonwil	I cant find anything for N900 with google	13:17
SpeedEvil	cloudyLights: see http://maemo.org/packages/view/netmon/	13:17
jonwil	only for symbian	13:17
SpeedEvil	oops	13:17
SpeedEvil	netmon	13:17
cloudyLights	google "how to get cellid all available phone towers"	13:18
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cloudyLights	thnaks , let me see	13:18
DocScrutinizer	cloudyLights: to use GSM for location purposes, you want to check for CellID parameter, as found e.g. in netmon app	13:18
DocScrutinizer	it's instantly	13:18
cloudyLights	ok, thnaks	13:18
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cloudyLights	X-fade: in case you need me about the application I ask to put on garage - I am here	13:19
cloudyLights	is this application usefull? when to get off bus?	13:19
SpeedEvil	cloudyLights: sure!	13:20
cloudyLights	ok, so I need to write it	13:20
cloudyLights	seems simple enoutgh	13:20
cloudyLights	enougth	13:20
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DocScrutinizer	cloudyLights: if you're interested in GSM-based location: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html	13:22
cloudyLights	thnaks	13:22
cloudyLights	was just about to ask	13:22
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Hurrian	cloudyLights : apple-style GPS positioning time?	13:24
Hurrian	that's be great, given the terrible no-AGPS lock times are	13:24
cloudyLights	X-Fade: thanks	13:25
jonwil	netmon looks good except that I cant read python :P	13:25
SpeedEvil	strace to see what it does	13:26
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crashanddie	Venemo, pong	13:30
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Venemo	crashanddie, if I create a file called '.gitignore' in the main directory of my git repo, will it have effects on all subdirectories?	13:31
crashanddie	yes	13:31
Venemo	thanks :)	13:31
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Venemo	can I / should I also commit this file into the repo?	13:31
crashanddie	yes	13:32
Venemo	okay, thx	13:32
crashanddie	I believe .gitignore was a stupid idea, .gitallow would have been a lot more interesting	13:33
Venemo	why? :P	13:33
crashanddie	because you never think of all the garbage files that your compilation/editors/os create	13:33
crashanddie	it's a lot easier to think of all the source files	13:34
MohammadAG	my GPS gets a lock in 5s	13:34
Hurrian	MohammadAG , with no AGPS?	13:35
crashanddie	If I had to write a rule to select all the source files of my main project? .*\.[sql\|C\|c\|cpp\|h\|xml\|idl], done.	13:35
MohammadAG	Hurrian, that's kinda impossible, even for apple :p	13:36
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otwieracz	jrayhawk: ping	13:49
jrayhawk	hello!	13:49
otwieracz	jrayhawk: you have any idea how to get ctrl+c working?	13:50
otwieracz	In xev ctrl is recognized as „Ctrl_L” and C is known as „c”.	13:51
otwieracz	But Ctrl+C gives only C.	13:51
jrayhawk	ctrl-c is interpreted by the tty driver; I think you can edit /etc/inittab and start a getty on /dev/tty1	13:51
jrayhawk	Oh, in X?	13:51
otwieracz	Yes.	13:51
HRH_H_Crab	i have a slightly odd problem. All my audio files seem to be using an icon cached from somewhere. does anyone know how i can reset that behaviour?	13:51
Hurrian	MohammadAG : http://goput.it/str/7ak.png	13:51
jrayhawk	Hmm. Let me look at my xmodmap settings...	13:51
DocScrutinizer	cloudyLights: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/smscb.py	13:52
MohammadAG	Hurrian, I'd rather not have storage info on my lock screen	13:52
Hurrian	i'm not a fan of ricing out my desktop, but it's useful for me, especially when maemo misbehaves	13:52
Hurrian	and i might get rid of emmc and usd data	13:52
MohammadAG	it requires checking space every now and then	13:52
otwieracz	I loaded /usr/share/n810-slide-blabla/Xmodmap with xmodmap already.	13:52
Hurrian	i mean, its not like i generate gb's of data and have to watch that carefully	13:52
jrayhawk	Yeah, mine's a little different.	13:53
otwieracz	jrayhawk: Alt_L combinations work well.	13:53
otwieracz	jrayhawk: uhm, I mean „Control_L” instead of „Ctrl_L”.	13:56
DocScrutinizer	the _L (and _R) parts are meaningless for kbds that don't have two keys of one kind	13:57
Jaffa	MohammadAG: No, not got the SB SDK. No disk space at home yet, and on Windows at work	13:57
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Your bug report mentions Qt SDK, not Platform SDK tho' ;-)	13:57
jrayhawk	http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/maemo/xmodmap.diff	13:57
jrayhawk	I can't for the life of me remember why any of those changes matter, but whatever.	13:59
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jonwil	ok now that I have the log I need, I can go back and reverse engineer libconnui and libconnui-cellular to see just what it talks to/does	14:00
jonwil	e.g. dbus calls	14:00
jonwil	and other things	14:01
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otwieracz	jrayhawk: nothing happens…	14:01
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otwieracz	Now it's Control_R	14:01
otwieracz	But, xmodmap -pm tells:	14:02
otwieracz	control Control_L (0x25), BadKey (0x6d)	14:02
jrayhawk	Yeah, that should be control Control_L (0x25), BadKey (0x6d), Control_R (0x69)	14:02
otwieracz	How to modify this?	14:02
jrayhawk	add control = Control_R, I thought.	14:03
otwieracz	How?	14:03
otwieracz	Where?	14:03
otwieracz	Ah, -e.	14:03
otwieracz	Hell yeah!	14:04
jrayhawk	success?	14:04
otwieracz	These changes will be restored after reboot?	14:04
otwieracz	yes, now it works.	14:04
jrayhawk	huzzah	14:04
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jrayhawk	No, you'll want to stick them in an xmodmap file and load that xmodmap file in your xsession	14:04
jrayhawk	http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/maemo/.xmodmap	14:05
jrayhawk	http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/maemo/.xsession	14:05
jrayhawk	(you'll presumably want to modify that xsession to run some other window manager)	14:05
otwieracz	Ok.	14:05
jrayhawk	(And/or get rid of the rxvt; I just keep that around in case I screw up my window manager somehow)	14:07
otwieracz	Btw, what with battery usage?	14:08
jrayhawk	It's pretty bad; the mer project was the attempt to fix that.	14:08
otwieracz	Oh.	14:08
jrayhawk	I assume with very careful selection of your window manager and applications, you can make it somewhat less bad.	14:09
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jrayhawk	huh, i wonder if powertop work	14:10
jrayhawk	s	14:10
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jrayhawk	ah, damn, it doesn't	14:12
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jrayhawk	if you recompile the kernel with CONFIG_TIMER_STATS you can much more aggressively track down poorly behaving programs.	14:13
otwieracz	How to check battery level?	14:15
jrayhawk	That's dealt with in Maemo's HAL; most battery applets can work with it.	14:17
jrayhawk	I don't remember how to query HAL from the commandline	14:18
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jrayhawk	ah, lshal	14:18
jrayhawk	lshal -u /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/bme	14:19
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otwieracz	charge_level.precentage?	14:19
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jrayhawk	battery.reporting.current, battery.reporting.design, and battery.reporting.last_full are typically what percentages are calculated off of.	14:20
MohammadAG	jrayhawk, powertop works fine	14:21
jrayhawk	This is on 2.6.21-omap1	14:22
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otwieracz	jrayhawk: dwm will be really cool only if statusbar will be on left, not on top…	14:33
jrayhawk	I've seen people do that with gnome-panel.	14:33
otwieracz	gnome-panel is gnooooooome.	14:34
_berto_	hey, what's the max micro-sd size supported by the N900?	14:34
_berto_	16G?	14:34
jrayhawk	Yeah, I haven't really seen anything else fill its roll, though.	14:34
jrayhawk	role	14:34
mece	_berto_, whatever existed when it was released. 16 I think it was. Doesn't mean 32gb wont work tho..	14:35
_berto_	mece: ok, thx	14:35
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jrayhawk	I should see how long it takes to bootstrap modern GHC on this sucker.	14:36
Venemo	achipa, ping	14:37
mece	Hurrian, ping	14:39
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Jaffa	Bah. WANT. NEW. TOY.	14:40
mece	Jaffa, oh, No N9/50 yet?	14:41
Venemo	Jaffa ++	14:41
Venemo	Jaffa, have you applied to the dev device program?	14:41
Jaffa	Venemo: Of course	14:42
Jaffa	An actual N950 will speed up dev somewhat	14:43
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mece	didn't luovanto tweet you that he was "going to arrange that" asap?	14:44
mece	s/didn't/Jaffa, didn't/	14:44
infobot	mece meant: Jaffa, didn't luovanto tweet you that he was "going to arrange that" asap?	14:44
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Corsac	hmnhn do the n9{,50} have magnetometer?	14:44
mece	yes	14:44
Choom	gladly so	14:45
mece	the n950 has a slightly mores sensitive magnetometer than the N9, the specs say :)	14:45
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Choom	I'll finally realize my dream of implementing virtual reality on a phone	14:45
Venemo	Jaffa, out of curiousity, what project have you listed in the application form?	14:46
Jaffa	mece: He did. "S" isn't "S" enough for me, though :-)	14:46
Hurrian	mece , pong	14:46
Hurrian	_berto_, using a 32GB uSD right now with my N900	14:47
Hurrian	brb	14:47
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Jaffa	Venemo: Hermes, Attitude, vim, Catorise, community assistance	14:47
cloudyLights	~seen lardman	14:47
infobot	lardman is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 32 messages. Is idling for 32m 20s, last said: 'lcuk: only with dedicated hw scanners'.	14:47
Venemo	Jaffa, that's a lot! :)	14:48
Jaffa	Having a cross-platform Hermes would be useful, since my wife's now got a C7	14:48
lcuk	Venemo, jaffa has attitude, one of the first community tested n9 apps	14:48
Jaffa	And one of the first community tested N900 apps :-)	14:48
Jaffa	It's a tradition	14:48
Jaffa	(now)	14:48
mece	haha	14:48
lcuk	if your app hasn't been tested then, ask yourself why havent you got the sdk and offered something ;)	14:48
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Venemo	lcuk :)	14:49
lcuk	Jaffa, is the c7 caacitive or resistive?	14:49
lcuk	p	14:49
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Jaffa	Cap.	14:49
lcuk	the c5 is resistive thankfully	14:49
Venemo	lcuk, C7 along with other symbian 3 devices is capacitive methinks	14:49
Jaffa	lcuk: Oh, really? Interesting.	14:49
mece	I listed Tweed Suit, Qlister and an unnamed friend tracker meeting helper thingamabob I'm working on every now and then. fingers crossed	14:50
mece	you can get c7's at pretty good deals in Fi right now. I'm considering getting one to use as boat navigator.	14:50
mece	Navionics ftfw	14:50
Jaffa	http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=23664#post23664 makes me sad	14:51
* Jaffa blames X-Fade		14:51
Jaffa	...but shouldn't shoot the messenger ;-)	14:51
Venemo	Jaffa, I wasn't aware you was behind Hermes	14:52
Jaffa	Venemo: I am	14:52
Venemo	Jaffa, thanks for it! it's a very nice piece of software :)	14:52
mece	Jaffa, damn. That blows!	14:52
Jaffa	Venemo: thanks :)	14:52
X-Fade	Jaffa: But this is not a problem at all.	14:53
mece	a community repo app for download somewhere very visible would be nice..	14:53
X-Fade	Jaffa: There just isn't an application manager anymore.	14:53
lardman	cloudyLights: ping	14:53
mece	X-Fade, how do app managing work then?	14:53
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X-Fade	mece: You just long press on an icon of an app and hit X to uninstall	14:54
cloudyLights	lardman: did you get far with the event demon?	14:54
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cloudyLights	lardman: the one that lets me hook to a location change?	14:54
lcuk	X-Fade, fun for pocket uninstalling	14:54
Venemo	Jaffa, as for me, I only have a couple of apps (not as many as you)	14:54
mece	X-Fade, and install simply from the intertubes, or from ovi app?	14:54
Venemo	plus a couple of app ideas :)	14:54
Jaffa	mece: qgil's been installing random debs direct from the browser over HTTP	14:54
lardman	cloudyLights: I've started, but been interrupted by a week or so of moving house	14:54
lcuk	Venemo, you have a skill beyond your app	14:54
X-Fade	mece: Store app or deb from browser.	14:54
lcuk	porting	14:54
lcuk	and packaging	14:55
mece	Jaffa, yeah, heard about that from ville.	14:55
Corsac	dragly: did you manage to fix your n950?	14:55
lcuk	taking that seed of an app and getting it onto many places	14:55
X-Fade	there is a setting to allow apps from untrusted sources :)	14:55
Jaffa	"deb from browser" is horrid if that's a preferred approach	14:55
mece	well, perhaps the legacy of the best-named app of all time can live on then?	14:55
* mece is speaking of "fapman", naturally.		14:55
X-Fade	Jaffa: Nah, we just need our app somewhere.	14:55
Venemo	lcuk, that is very kind of you to say :)	14:55
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Jaffa	X-Fade: Ideally Ovi, of course. But will they host it?	14:55
X-Fade	Jaffa: They might. I can see if I can push some buttons :)	14:56
mece	Jaffa, X-Fade, we're talking about a repository/app manager, right?	14:56
cloudyLights	lardman: can I help	14:56
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cloudyLights	?	14:56
lcuk	Jaffa, isn't it compliant enough to be published officially?	14:56
X-Fade	Jaffa: But there is also the nokia apps repo, which is maybe a simpler target.	14:56
Jaffa	mece: Right. For discovering and installing OSS software built by COBS	14:56
cloudyLights	I would rather hook to your deamon, then write my own	14:57
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lardman	cloudyLights: sure, in Garage, project is called Proximus	14:57
lcuk	ie just put it on the ovi store	14:57
lardman	I'll get cracking on it again this week	14:57
mece	ovi store AND website	14:57
cloudyLights	Proximus, right	14:57
Jaffa	lcuk: Isn't "what" compliant enough to be published on Ovi?	14:57
lardman	cloudyLights: what was your usecase?	14:57
cloudyLights	where you involved in gpe calender?	14:57
mece	lcuk, the app doesn't exist yet.	14:57
lcuk	Jaffa, attitude?	14:58
cloudyLights	lardman: alert user before he arrives at a bus station	14:58
Jaffa	lcuk: And if we decide that Ovi is the best way for the community to publish apps, why bother with our QA processes and COBS targets?	14:58
X-Fade	mece: There is an app.	14:58
lardman	cloudyLights: ah yes	14:58
Jaffa	lcuk: I'm sure it is. But publishing on Ovi is more opaque than OBS	14:58
mece	X-Fade, oh... cool :)	14:58
X-Fade	mece: The discovery part already works. Just needs a backend for installing debs ;)	14:58
mece	X-Fade, is it nice?	14:58
mece	ah	14:58
mece	apt is already there...	14:59
Macer	sigh	14:59
lardman	cloudyLights: if you have any thoughts then let me know (no internet at home, so will have to be during office hours in the UK), but I'll try to crack on now that I'm not so knackered from the move	14:59
Macer	have to use this damn android phone	14:59
* lardman pops to the pos office, bbiab		14:59
lcuk	good point Jaffa, unusually for me I was not thinking in the more general scope	14:59
Macer	stupid low quality usb port on the n900	14:59
Macer	sucks	15:00
mece	Macer, :(	15:00
cloudyLights	lardman: I can sms you ;-)	15:00
Macer	i dont like andridiot too much	15:00
Jaffa	lcuk: Very unusual for you! ;-p	15:00
lcuk	Jaffa, baby brain today	15:00
lcuk	:)	15:00
Jaffa	Any progress yet?	15:00
lcuk	yes	15:00
mece	lcuk, how's the little hellraiser?	15:00
lcuk	9lb 4	15:00
lcuk	4 hours	15:00
Jaffa	lcuk: Wow, congratulations!	15:01
Jaffa	THat's a big 'un.	15:01
lcuk	2 paracetamol and gas and air only!	15:01
mece	Jaffa, you've been off twitter I see...	15:01
Jaffa	mece: Yeah	15:01
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X-Fade	mece: https://gitorious.org/meego-community-extras-client	15:01
Jaffa	lcuk: Wow. Piece of piss ;-)	15:01
lcuk	yeah Jaffa we have hello world pics ;)	15:01
Jaffa	lcuk: Sex?	15:01
lcuk	indeed it was, tracy didn't think she was ready to push	15:01
mece	X-Fade, sweet!	15:01
lcuk	Jaffa, boy, calling him Finlay	15:02
Jaffa	lcuk: Cool name. He's gorgeous; congratulations to you all.	15:02
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X-Fade	lcuk: Congrats!	15:02
* lcuk nods		15:02
lcuk	\o	15:02
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lcuk	ty X-Fade Jaffa, will pass on to tracy	15:03
mece	lcuk, very cool name. I really like the Gaelic names. I have a Ciara myself :)	15:03
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Macer	finlay?	15:04
Macer	never met a finlay before	15:04
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mece	X-Fade, does qgil have pull in the repository/app thing? That thing simply _must_ be available at release date..	15:08
mece	as we all know, the cool stuff comes from the community :)	15:09
hiemanshu	lcuk: http://www.cardfr.com/953-973-thickbox/carte-finlay.jpg	15:10
lcuk	oh gawd hiemanshu	15:11
lcuk	good job we did not use WWE names though	15:11
lcuk	"The ROCK Birkett" :D	15:11
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hiemanshu	lcuk: finlay is a wwe guy :P	15:11
lcuk	that is my point	15:11
hiemanshu	I used to be a WWE fan :P when I was little :P	15:12
mece	World Wildlife Federation?	15:13
mece	o E	15:13
Jaffa	mece: I suppose the point is that there's no central app manager to discover them in. However, getting apps.meego.com granted a certificate which gives community apps (at least) equal power to Ovi, and without developer/open mode would mean our client, or installs through the browser, would be useful compared with the locked down "install deb from browser"	15:14
* lcuk believes hulkamania and for more shame, rick flair were around		15:14
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Hurrian	pong	15:14
Hurrian	anyone wanted me?	15:14
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Venemo	Jaffa, what do you think I should put into the "Project URL" field in the application form (in case I'm planning to do multiple projects, and these don't have their URL yet)?	15:17
mece	Venemo, I don't think it matters that much. Put something for the biggest project, or the one you like the most.	15:18
Venemo	mece, it doesn't matter much? that's a relief :)	15:18
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mece	Venemo, I'm guessing here :D	15:18
Venemo	I never bothered to create any real kind of web page for any of my projects	15:18
mece	Venemo, me neither.	15:19
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Jaffa	Venemo: Your blog or maemo.org page or something	15:26
Venemo	Jaffa, mhm	15:26
Jaffa	Venemo: I think your URL should be "http://give.jaffa.my.device/"	15:26
Venemo	Jaffa, which one did you choose?	15:26
Jaffa	Venemo: Or your bestest project.	15:26
Venemo	:D	15:26
Jaffa	Venemo: http://hermes.garage.maemo.org/	15:26
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Hurrian	I just usually get a co.cc domain and a free hosting account, and shove a HTML file with a download link there.	15:27
Hurrian	worksforme.so	15:27
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Venemo	Jaffa, is there any reason why Hermes hates me recently?	15:28
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nikkk0	hi	15:29
Venemo	I click on "Refresh" and it says "Network connection error", even though other apps can use the network flawlessly.	15:29
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Venemo	Jaffa ^	15:29
nikkk0	anyone had/have modest that keep crashing with internal error...and then restart , recrash and so on ?	15:29
DocScrutinizer	\o/ took a crashcourse about libcmtspeech, dunno what for though	15:30
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nikkk0	what is the best mail client for maemo5 ?	15:30
Venemo	there is not a single good one :(	15:31
nikkk0	bah	15:31
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nikkk0	so, the less worst ?	15:31
nikkk0	:p	15:31
nikkk0	my modest keep crashing in loop	15:31
nikkk0	i dont get why	15:31
robbiethe1st	Stock works for me; or google's web client	15:31
nikkk0	does that handle exchange ?	15:32
robbiethe1st	I.e. modest	15:32
Jaffa	Venemo: Reauthorise Facebook.	15:32
nikkk0	mine is buggy	15:32
robbiethe1st	Could be your filesystem's corrupt; either reflash it, or install backupmenu and run the fsck option	15:32
DocScrutinizer	now if only Nokia had released docs and specs/files like http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/libcmtspeechdata/blobs/master/cmtspeech.h and http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/libcmtspeechdata/blobs/master/doc/libcmtspeechdata_api_docs_main.txt from very beginning, for all their closed blobs, then probably bad feelings about the closed implementation whould have been less :-S	15:32
nikkk0	ah i also got an issue with facebook, for sharing pics	15:32
nikkk0	noway to auth	15:32
Venemo	Jaffa, how do I do that?	15:32
robbiethe1st	Mine started doing that when my OptFS suddenly became corrupt	15:32
nikkk0	:s	15:32
robbiethe1st	anyway, I'm off.	15:32
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Jaffa	Venemo: Accounts > Facebook > Clear authorisation inside Hermes	15:32
nikkk0	optFS ?	15:33
nikkk0	ah maybe i got filesys full :s	15:33
nikkk0	that could be the point	15:33
Venemo	Jaffa, thanks, I'll try	15:33
DocScrutinizer	nikkk0: you're on cssu?	15:33
nikkk0	good question	15:33
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Jaffa	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11961	15:34
povbot	Bug 11961: Random email application (modest) crashes with CSSU	15:34
nikkk0	DocScrutinizer: how to be sure ?	15:34
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: :-D	15:34
DocScrutinizer	lol, you should know	15:34
Jaffa	nikkk0: Go to "Settings". If it has an "About CSSU" next to "About product"	15:34
nikkk0	i installed so mannnny stuff :p	15:34
DocScrutinizer	as installing cssu isn't sth you do by accident	15:34
nikkk0	Jaffa: nope only about product	15:34
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Venemo	Jaffa, thanks, it seems to be working now!	15:35
nikkk0	Jaffa: DocScrutinizer: nope i'm not in cssu then :)	15:35
nikkk0	i'm gonna try to get some freespace on /opt/ and see if it can start	15:35
DocScrutinizer	then modest loop-crashing is pathological	15:36
Venemo	Jaffa, also, in the field in which I should list my contributions to Maemo, should I post links to the various projects I have contributed to?	15:36
cloudyLights	Jaffa:https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11961 how can I help?	15:36
povbot	Bug 11961: Random email application (modest) crashes with CSSU	15:36
cloudyLights	I also see this	15:36
nikkk0	thats with cssu	15:36
nikkk0	i'm affraid dont have that	15:36
nikkk0	cssu issnt part of the apt/source.list right?	15:37
Jaffa	Venemo: I think so! (Although, of course, I'm not involved and can only speak for what I did)	15:37
DocScrutinizer	I love the "random email application" bit in it ;-P	15:37
Venemo	Jaffa, sure, thx :)	15:37
Venemo	DocScrutinizer :D	15:37
Jaffa	cloudyLights: Speak to Sc0rpius or MohammadAG or merlin1991 here on or #maemo-ssu	15:37
nikkk0	:)	15:38
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: :)	15:38
cloudyLights	o ok , be glad to help on that	15:38
nikkk0	to get a clean modest	15:38
nikkk0	i guess rm /home/user/.modest	15:38
nikkk0	apt-get remove modest	15:38
DocScrutinizer	haha	15:38
DocScrutinizer	hahaha	15:39
nikkk0	and then trying to reinstall could fix?	15:39
DocScrutinizer	try to reinstall might get funny	15:39
nikkk0	already did, but no sure i cleaned all data/accounts	15:39
nikkk0	:s	15:39
DocScrutinizer	I'm not sure there's a modest package	15:39
nikkk0	there is	15:39
DocScrutinizer	oh, ok	15:39
nikkk0	:)	15:39
Jaffa	Removing it will want to remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr though	15:40
DocScrutinizer	still I wonder how that's plumbed t maemo-MP	15:40
DocScrutinizer	yeah	15:40
DocScrutinizer	exactly that	15:40
nikkk0	whats that Jaffa ?	15:41
cloudyLights	DocScrutinizer> what is TA value im cellular?	15:41
DocScrutinizer	timing advance	15:41
nikkk0	maybe i already did :s	15:41
nikkk0	shoudl check if its still there	15:41
DocScrutinizer	see link to my 2008 mail to openmoko ML I linked you to	15:41
DocScrutinizer	it basically tells how far you're from BTS	15:42
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cloudyLights	I am reading it and dodnt understand what TA mean, i will read on	15:42
Venemo	Jaffa, a slight question about Hermes: can I somehow make it respect the native name order of my country?	15:42
DocScrutinizer	in 550m increments	15:42
Jaffa	Venemo: Not currently. What do you mean?	15:42
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DocScrutinizer	it's a correction factor for the mobile's timer to stay in sync with BTS tower	15:43
Jaffa	Venemo: If there's not an issue for it already open, though, it'd be good if you could. Since some bits will need tweaking for Qt Mobility backed anyway	15:43
DocScrutinizer	cloudyLights: or in other words, it's representing speed of light delay for your data to tower	15:43
Venemo	Jaffa, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_name_order#Name_order	15:43
cloudyLights	o ok	15:44
Venemo	Jaffa, if it's Qt, I could take a look	15:44
nikkk0	ok, and for the speed of the device.	15:45
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DocScrutinizer	time for some proper cool beer... where are my sunglasses?	15:45
DocScrutinizer	o/	15:45
nikkk0	beside overclocking, no other way to gain in speed?	15:45
DocScrutinizer	reduce memory consumption	15:45
nikkk0	so less widget and apps?	15:46
Jaffa	Venemo: It's not yet.	15:46
Venemo	Jaffa, not yet what?	15:46
DocScrutinizer	overclocking is BS, unless you know exactly why it's needed and what it does in a particular problem case	15:46
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nikkk0	what u mean by BS?	15:47
cloudyLights	I will try to run this kind of script here and see what I get	15:47
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cloudyLights	base station?	15:47
nikkk0	:)	15:47
nikkk0	doubt it	15:47
DocScrutinizer	I mean I had laptops that had half the CPU grunt of that little N900, and still served me well, even on KDE and for OpenOffice	15:47
nikkk0	indeed	15:48
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nikkk0	so what is killing the n900 ? :p	15:48
nikkk0	my gf's pictures ?	15:48
nikkk0	:)	15:48
X-Fade	nikkk0: you.	15:48
nikkk0	heh	15:48
nikkk0	probably .. but it wasnt that fast in the begining ;)	15:49
DocScrutinizer	he's right	15:49
cloudyLights	btw, now that I am working with ec2, seems a good test to see how I can use ec2 from my N900	15:49
cloudyLights	more about that - later	15:49
DocScrutinizer	esp if you are overclocking it - that qualifies for a really proper kill	15:49
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cloudyLights	did anyone here used ec2 and n900 for some application?	15:50
Venemo	DocScrutinizer :)	15:51
Venemo	cloudyLights, what is ec2?	15:51
cloudyLights	amazon cloud	15:51
nikkk0	heh	15:51
crashanddie	I'm guessing everyone did at some point or another.	15:51
cloudyLights	I can think of wep cracking as an example of cpu need	15:51
crashanddie	WEP cracking doesn't require CPU	15:51
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crashanddie	It takes about 3 minutes to crack a WEP key.	15:51
crashanddie	on the N900	15:51
cloudyLights	well, something else	15:52
joga	what if 3 minutes is too long? ;)	15:52
nikkk0	cloudyLights: for wpa maybe	15:52
nikkk0	not wep	15:52
nikkk0	:)	15:52
cloudyLights	taks min to createa new instance	15:52
DocScrutinizer	joga: then you shouldn't try to crack the WEP of the police station :-P	15:52
achipa	Venemo: yes ?	15:52
nikkk0	but rather run john on ps3	15:52
joga	DocScrutinizer hah, like they even have encryption ;)	15:52
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nikkk0	than on n900	15:52
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* DocScrutinizer still has to witness john cracking a wpa key with a proper non-dictionary passphrase		15:53
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nikkk0	if u got many gpu could happens	15:54
nikkk0	:)	15:54
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: moin	15:54
javispedro	moin	15:54
javispedro	so, everybody got his n9devkit already? =)	15:54
Jaffa	javispedro: :-p	15:55
javispedro	j/k ;P	15:55
jonwil	I think I found the signals I need	15:55
Jaffa	javispedro: My N950 got lost in the post, so they've sent me one of each colour 64GB N9s instead	15:55
jonwil	Time to see if http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control has info on the things I need to use	15:55
nikkk0	:)	15:56
jonwil	Knowing Nokia, they would probably replace a lost N950 with an N97	15:57
* Jaffa has sent one of his N900s off for repair. Goodness knows what I'll get back		15:57
alterego	Heh	15:57
javispedro	jonwil: we had one such case here	15:58
javispedro	someone sent a n900 and got a n8 iirc	15:58
alterego	Jaffa: I sent mine off two weeks before SF and got a replaced internal board, so I'm guessing they probably still have some parts somewhere ;)	15:58
javispedro	this makes me think	15:58
javispedro	european warranty law states that you may get a back an alternative device with similar or superior specifications	15:58
Jaffa	alterego: I was remembering what javispedro's said about some shortages	15:58
alterego	If you wait until after the N9 is launched you should be able to get one of those as it's functionally more equivalent ;)	15:59
Jaffa	javispedro: The only superior spec device Nokia have is N950 or N9 ;-)	15:59
jonwil	both of my N900 warranty issues were resolved with a new N900	15:59
javispedro	is the n8 superior to the n900? =)	15:59
Jaffa	javispedro: Lower screen res; no keyboard.	15:59
alterego	javispedro: camera is :P	15:59
alterego	And maybe some inbuilt software functionality .. But meh.	15:59
ShadowJK	lower cpu speed	15:59
ShadowJK	and symbian	15:59
Jaffa	Court would probably rule you could sell it, buy an N900 for a profit on eBay and so should shut up.	16:00
javispedro	haha	16:00
javispedro	Jaffa: you have a point =)	16:00
alterego	Heh	16:00
alterego	Jaffa: that would work, if you could buy an N900 ;)	16:00
alterego	I'll sell you one for 500 :P	16:01
alterego	(EUR)	16:01
Jaffa	alterego: One for 67 quid with 3 hours left.	16:01
Jaffa	Hmm, it seems the second hand market isn't as good as I'd hoped	16:01
alterego	Bargain,	16:01
alterego	Mine is brand new and boxed :P	16:01
jonwil	bah, I wish I could figure out how to talk to the registration_status_change, signal_strength_change, radio_access_technology_change and radio_info_change signals	16:01
Jaffa	http://phones.shop.ebay.co.uk/Mobile-Phones-w-o-Contract-/9355/i.html?_nkw=nokia+n900&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282	16:02
jonwil	Or what they are for	16:02
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jonwil	google doesn'	16:02
jonwil	doesn't help	16:02
Jaffa	Ah, the 67 quid one has a broken USB port!	16:02
jonwil	a N900 with a busted USB is useless	16:02
javispedro	we are boned, no n900, no n950, ...	16:02
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alterego	jonwil: not entirely, if you have a way to charge it.	16:03
alterego	Flashing it is possible ..	16:03
alterego	(without USB)	16:03
alterego	Plus, spare screen may be worth that.	16:03
alterego	And keypad etc.	16:04
dm8tbr	also you might be able to fix the port?	16:04
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alterego	That is also a possibility, but you wouldn't know until you got it.	16:04
* dm8tbr has never seen the PCB nor the damage a sheered off connector does		16:04
jonwil	Anyone here know anything about how flightmode works?	16:07
alterego	It powers down radios	16:08
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jonwil	that much I knoqw	16:09
jonwil	I mean how do userspace apps enable/disable it	16:09
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jonwil	i.e. the flightmode ui options	16:10
alterego	Check for dbus calls	16:11
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: can you please share the arm binary resulting from that 5liner c program to patch the lib?	16:11
DocScrutinizer	I'm not prepared to compile it here ;-)	16:11
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jonwil	yeah I can do that	16:11
* jonwil turns on linux box		16:11
Corsac	please turn it off, it's already too hot	16:12
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alterego	Heh	16:13
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: (wish I could figure) http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/libcmtspeechdata/blobs/master/doc/libcmtspeechdata_api_docs_main.txt	16:15
jonwil	Whats that documentation for?	16:16
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jonwil	Also guys, for future reference, do NOT handle a N900 after eating pizza with chili on it	16:17
DocScrutinizer	mentions all the dbus signals of the events you're asking for	16:17
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DocScrutinizer	almost all at least, related to CSD	16:17
Corsac	but you can handle your n900 to your 8 month old daughter, no problem	16:17
jonwil	That doc doesnt mention any of those signals	16:18
jonwil	It seems to be for a meego library	16:18
jonwil	Sure you got the right docs?	16:18
Venemo	jonwil, why not? I thought that N900 in pizza flavour would be tasty :P	16:19
DocScrutinizer	jonwil: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/libcmtspeechdata/blobs/master/doc/libcmtspeechdata_api_docs_main.txt#line268	16:19
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DocScrutinizer	jonwil: et ff	16:19
jonwil	oh ok	16:20
jonwil	I just found a package by the name of libcsnet-dev_0.4.14+0m5_armel	16:20
jonwil	which contains a file called net_interface.xml	16:20
jonwil	which happens to be what I need	16:20
DocScrutinizer	http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/libcmtspeechdata/blobs/master/doc/libcmtspeechdata_api_docs_main.txt#line285	16:20
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DocScrutinizer	http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/libcmtspeechdata/blobs/master/doc/libcmtspeechdata_api_docs_main.txt#line297	16:21
DocScrutinizer	etc etc	16:21
DocScrutinizer	afk	16:21
DocScrutinizer	o/	16:21
jonwil	Looks like net_interface.xml is full dbus introspection XML	16:22
jonwil	full details of all the stuff Phone.Net does	16:22
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jonwil	The amount of useful headers, documentation and code that's out there if you know where it is is surprising...	16:23
jonwil	ok, I have the compiled binary for the patcher and dumper apps, what should I do with them?	16:24
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jonwil	Interesting, I think I can figure out how to use libconnui and libconnui-cellular directly just like the operator name widget	16:25
jonwil	which saves me writing new code	16:25
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jonwil	all I gotta do is understand the maw that is dbus_glib :P	16:27
DocScrutinizer	use python ;-P	16:29
DocScrutinizer	http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/smscb.py	16:29
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DocScrutinizer	(what to do with binary) attach to mail to ML, or send to my mail addr directly, whatever you prefer	16:31
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DocScrutinizer	or up to the location where's sourcecode as well	16:31
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jonwil	will send to you directly	16:33
jonwil	email sent	16:34
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nikkk0	ell broadcast	16:37
nikkk0	DocScrutinizer: whats this script for ?	16:37
nikkk0	cell	16:37
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nikkk0	pdu..sms, sounds good	16:38
javispedro	qdbus experts, if an application does QDBusConnection::systemBus().connect(QString(), "/some/path/", "some.interface", "something", this, SLOT(...)), is it listening to signals?	16:38
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nikkk0	btw, is there a way to query the sim via the filesys ?	16:39
SpeedEvil	nikkk0: No	16:39
SpeedEvil	nikkk0: What do you mean 'query the SIM'	16:39
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nikkk0	SpeedEvil: hmm list whats in it :)	16:40
nikkk0	contacts..and other stuff	16:41
nikkk0	get cryptokey ? :)	16:41
DocScrutinizer	nikkk0: http://paste.debian.net/121054/	16:41
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nikkk0	also seems pnatd is in charge of the sms	16:41
nikkk0	anybody got a clear view on what is where on the filessytem?	16:42
SpeedEvil	nikkk0: cryptokey can 'never' be read from modern SIMs.	16:42
jonwil	SMS stuff on N900 is done via the CSD daemon	16:42
nikkk0	can we sniff gsm signal ?	16:42
SpeedEvil	nikkk0: no	16:42
jonwil	and specifically the libcsd-sms plugin	16:42
jonwil	and libsms library	16:42
SpeedEvil	nikkk0: Basically, you can't do anything interesting, the modem is talkable to by AT commands - and that's pretty much all	16:42
SpeedEvil	nikkk0: The modem runs its own software stack, and deals with all of the low level stuff.	16:43
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nikkk0	hmm	16:43
nikkk0	but the fone doesnt access it anyhow ?	16:43
cloudyLights	heard it has its own cpu and is blocked by all means	16:43
SpeedEvil	nikkk0: All you can do on the main processor is boring stuff like echo cancellation, and making your voice sound like darth vader.	16:43
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nikkk0	SpeedEvil: modem is pnatd process ?	16:43
SpeedEvil	No.	16:43
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nikkk0	ehhe	16:44
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jonwil	pnatd has nothing to do with modem	16:44
SpeedEvil	The modem is software running on a completely seperate CPU.	16:44
jonwil	modem is separate CPU	16:44
nikkk0	SpeedEvil: what about imei/imsi spoof?	16:44
SpeedEvil	pnatd talks to it in some ways.	16:44
SpeedEvil	nikkk0: no, you can't.	16:44
nikkk0	ok	16:44
jonwil	imei and imsi are handled by modem firmware also	16:44
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jonwil	all the sensitive stuff is handled by the modem firmware	16:44
nikkk0	hmm	16:44
SpeedEvil	nikkk0: _every_ interesting 'hacking' suggestion is 'no, you can't' as the modem stack is secured, and not open, and designed not to allow it.	16:44
nikkk0	and patching the firmware?	16:45
nikkk0	:s	16:45
DocScrutinizer	damn no	16:45
SpeedEvil	You can upgrade the modem firmware with the appropriately signed firmware	16:45
nikkk0	sux	16:45
jonwil	Its a good thing that you cant mess with the modem firmware	16:45
nikkk0	imsi is on the sim	16:45
DocScrutinizer	go osmocom if you're interested in hacking the gsm stack	16:45
SpeedEvil	jonwil: In some ways, in others it'd be nice.	16:45
nikkk0	imei on the device	16:46
SpeedEvil	I want to chane the IMEI to one of a smashed ipad, for example.	16:46
nikkk0	DocScrutinizer: i am	16:46
nikkk0	but any good stuff runing out on n900 ? :)	16:46
SpeedEvil	So I can use an ipad plan on my n900	16:46
SpeedEvil	nikkk0: no	16:46
jonwil	Would be interesting to see someone try to get osmocombb running on something more powerful than the Motorola C series dumbphones they are trying to run it on now...	16:47
nikkk0	but imsi is read from the sim	16:47
jonwil	Although given that more powerfull phones tend to have more security for the modem firmware	16:47
jonwil	and also much more complex modem chipsets	16:47
DocScrutinizer	nikkk0: you start nagging	16:47
SpeedEvil	nikkk0: IMEI I meant	16:48
DocScrutinizer	nikkk0: there's no access to modem, and no access to sim	16:48
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SpeedEvil	nikkk0: anyway - the n900 modem is not crackable, so you can't do any of this.	16:48
nikkk0	ok	16:48
jonwil	I doubt we will see osmocombb on anything thats actually good anytime soon :P	16:48
nikkk0	sad	16:48
nikkk0	:s	16:48
SpeedEvil	There is no 'filesystem'	16:48
nikkk0	hmm	16:49
cloudyLights	btw I heard its the same in android	16:49
nikkk0	now i wonder why didnt i buy a windows fone :p	16:49
nikkk0	joke	16:49
SpeedEvil	In most phones this is the case.	16:49
SpeedEvil	There are two independant cores	16:49
cloudyLights	and for a good reason	16:49
nikkk0	yeah i guess so	16:49
nikkk0	;)	16:50
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jonwil	btw, who was it that suggested I should use Python? Every time I look at Python code, my eyes glaze over.	16:51
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nikkk0	so the firmware is the key/or the lock :p	16:51
jonwil	You probably couldn't get me to mess with Python if you paid me to do it	16:51
* crashanddie takes note never to hire jonwil		16:52
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jonwil	I am perfectly happy with C++, C, VB.NET, Delphi, PHP and a number of other languages	16:52
jonwil	Just not Python	16:52
jonwil	I did a little bit of Ruby once	16:53
jonwil	a long time ago	16:53
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cloudyLights	when I run git clone I see	16:56
cloudyLights	git: 'remote-curl' is not a git-command. See 'git --help'.	16:56
cloudyLights	how to fix in N900?	16:56
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nikkk0	SpeedEvil: to access the modem for at command what do u use ?	16:59
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DocScrutinizer	pnatd, alas I fail to figure any sane qay to quit it or use it scripted. echo at\|pnatd; no dice	17:03
nikkk0	ok	17:03
nikkk0	i had a script that worked fine	17:03
nikkk0	let me check	17:04
nikkk0	i found some sms.py for n900	17:05
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alterego	DocScrutinizer: Columbus disables it when you enable USB serial streaming.	17:07
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alterego	DocScrutinizer: it takes as it's first paramter (iirc) a serial IO device, you could make a psuedo serial device to launch it against.	17:07
nikkk0		17:07
nikkk0	let me grab a link	17:08
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: nice	17:09
alterego	DocScrutinizer: you may also want to look at the FOSS matd project ;)	17:10
alterego	Though that may be hard wired to ofono	17:10
alterego	I'm still trying to understand why there is no Symbian or Series 40 backend in Qt5	17:11
alterego	Not even a mention of it ...	17:11
* alterego ponders		17:11
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alterego	We still don't know what this "next billion" actually means ..	17:12
jonwil	bah, I wish there was more documentation for the relationship between the actual signal and the signal handler you pass to dbus_g_proxy_connect_signal	17:13
jonwil	i.e. what the signal handler should look like given the details for the signal	17:13
nikkk0	DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Phone_call_and_SMS_examples	17:13
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internetishard	why doesn't this thing have a flesh port?	17:13
internetishard	It is so sexy I want to bang it	17:13
crashanddie	internetishard, nice.	17:14
alterego	Why doesn't it have a flesh torch ..	17:14
alterego	Or is that the same thing?	17:14
internetishard	mine is more like a fleshlight	17:14
internetishard	except open source	17:15
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alterego	I like how the N950 has "developer edition" plastered all over it :D	17:15
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nikkk0	gotta reboot, bbl	17:16
Jaffa	alterego: Yes, despite all the "don't you know what this means?!" they haven't actually said that Qt will be on S40.	17:16
alterego	Jaffa: it's interesting isn't it :)	17:17
Jaffa	alterego: So every time someone says "you're underestimating 'Qt being core to the next billion'" I feel like saying, "how, exactly"	17:17
internetishard	wtf, how do I get a skype IM from some spammer who isn't on my contacts list	17:17
Jaffa	internetishard: Yeah, I get that too	17:17
internetishard	really? okay, I felt violated	17:17
alterego	Jaffa: maybe they mean LG and Samsung using MeeGo on handsets ;)	17:17
Jaffa	alterego: :)	17:18
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Jaffa	alterego: Maybe they mean they're going to rebrand Harmattan as "S42" ;-)	17:18
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alterego	Jaffa: I hope so	17:19
internetishard	let's make our own	17:20
internetishard	:>	17:20
alterego	Jaffa: but then, who knows, the fact they announced an S40 device with a 1GHz processor is indicative of some movement into a more capable environment for Qt I would imagine.	17:20
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internetishard	we could evven build in a chick magnet	17:20
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alterego	internetishard: That's easy, just display a webpage for a shoe shop on the screen ..	17:21
internetishard	ug	17:21
internetishard	^^this man has experience with women	17:21
ShadowJK	S40 doesn't run QT?	17:22
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alterego	Nope, not yet	17:22
* javispedro is in love with the Harmattan iphone-style installs		17:22
javispedro	very very nice.	17:23
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divan	javispedro, what does mean iphone-style installs?	17:23
javispedro	in the launcher	17:23
javispedro	installing feedback appears on the launcher, uninstallations can be started from the launcher app	17:23
divan	hmm	17:24
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Jaffa	javispedro: I'm nervous about what it means for community apps with regards to visibility; but the UX is nice, certainly	17:25
jonwil	Finding decent documentation on dbus-glib is hard :(	17:25
javispedro	Jaffa: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/installdownloading.png	17:26
javispedro	http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/installuninstall.png	17:26
Jaffa	javispedro: Nice	17:26
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javispedro	I gather it is all done via browser on harmattan	17:26
Jaffa	javispedro: Does Harmattan scratchbox live nicely alongside/in Fremantle SDK?	17:26
Jaffa	javispedro: Yeah, which doesn't sound goo	17:27
javispedro	dunno.	17:27
javispedro	anything is better than ham.	17:27
X-Fade	javispedro: or Store client	17:27
jonwil	as far as I know yes Harmattan and Fremantle can live side by side	17:27
javispedro	yes, they should be able to, and here I don't have any problems.	17:27
alterego	Jaffa: both targets work for me.	17:27
javispedro	Jaffa: also a web frontend might induce users to leave feedback.	17:28
Jaffa	alterego: Just followed the Harmattan Platform SDK install instructions and it happily updated /scratchbox?	17:28
javispedro	Jaffa: see iphone store(s).	17:28
alterego	Jaffa: yup	17:28
DocScrutinizer	Nokia Developer Newsletter: Ovi Store tops 6 million daily downloads	17:28
* ShadowJK wonders if it handles dependencies at all ;p		17:28
DocScrutinizer	The future of Qt: Bringing apps to the next billion	17:28
Jaffa	javispedro: There's only one; and I dunno if I can be bothered with the Ovi hassle	17:28
jonwil	So do we know if the N9 has the nice openness of the N900 or is it closed like the iPhone?	17:29
Jaffa	alterego: Cool. Now all I need is some disk space.	17:29
DocScrutinizer	How to request the Nokia N950 developer kit ;-P	17:29
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Yup	17:29
javispedro	ShadowJK: behind the scenes is your old friendly neighborhood apt-get	17:29
javispedro	*neighbor	17:29
Jaffa	javispedro: Discussion about third party repos at http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3671	17:30
javispedro	Jaffa: what do you mean by "there's only one"?	17:30
Jaffa	javispedro: iPhone Store	17:30
javispedro	ah well, there are a few more ones...	17:30
javispedro	you know the idea =)	17:30
javispedro	either way the point is that imo a good way to promote feedback is to put a comments form in the same webpage where the user downloaded the app	17:31
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javispedro	that's the way the iphone does it, that's the way my father did, that's the way america does it... and it served apple pretty well so far.	17:31
javispedro	I prefer that more to "surprises" when the user hits the uninstalll app icon	17:32
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Jaffa	javispedro: Oh, agreed. And "give feedback on uninstall" never captures the feedback from the people who love the app and keep it!	17:33
javispedro	so, I'm fine with the main community distribution method being a webpage, if we can manage to set it up, of course.	17:34
alterego	Jaffa: btw, finished that accounts management system I told you about before SF	17:34
alterego	Customer is very pleased with it, and it's working quite well for them so far :)	17:34
merlin1991	normally when I remove an application I want to get rid of it not fill out a survey why I don't like it	17:34
alterego	Jaffa: Might work on productising it and refactoring it to be a bit more generic for more adhoc solutions :)	17:35
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Jaffa	alterego: Cool	17:35
Jaffa	javispedro: ...and the security framework means that apps from web pages aren't entirely locked down (which, I think, they should be)	17:36
Jaffa	javispedro: Whereas a repo (e.g. a .install file from a browser) could point to a repo which is signed and has some permissions granted to it.	17:36
Jaffa	javispedro: Remember all that stuff Aegis does about permissions & repositories from Amsterdam...	17:36
javispedro	i'm thinking the latter option (.install file)	17:37
javispedro	cause for updates, etc. we still need repo	17:37
* Jaffa nods		17:37
javispedro	note: updates are also signaled in launcher, or at least that's what the code says (couldn't get it to work)	17:37
Jaffa	A web page can be iterated and developed and distributed more quickly than an app	17:37
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Jaffa	The app can just embed it or launch it	17:37
X-Fade	javispedro: there is no .install file support anymore.	17:38
javispedro	X-Fade: Ovi has its own client then?	17:38
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ShadowJK	So how does this security thing work	17:39
X-Fade	javispedro: yes.	17:39
javispedro	:(	17:39
ShadowJK	like, can you do a USB OTG Kernel with ntfs support? :P	17:39
X-Fade	javispedro: That is why we need an app, coming from a trusted source afaik.	17:39
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javispedro	how aegis works from the user PoV is still a mistery to me.	17:40
Jaffa	X-Fade: Who's that trusted source going to be, though?	17:40
javispedro	I know that packages declare the device resources they need access to, but I don't know how the UI reacts if you install a package that, let's say, wants to access everything.	17:40
frals	aegis shivers	17:40
SpeedEvil	Yeah - the big question isn't aegis - it's how it's actually done.	17:40
X-Fade	Jaffa: Like I said, the nokia apps one is probably the easiest. Otherwise ovi?	17:41
Jaffa	X-Fade: But how does a user install something from Nokia Apps?	17:41
ShadowJK	So if I want to have the benfits of running in Closed Mode, I can't make any of my own apps that does anything non-trivial?	17:41
X-Fade	Jaffa: I guess we would need an installer deb :)	17:41
Jaffa	X-Fade: Which is a bit of a catch-22, no?	17:41
X-Fade	Jaffa: But let's see when dev device becomes available. Then you can test.	17:42
Jaffa	Unless an unsigned, untrusted app can install things from trusted sources	17:42
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Jaffa	X-Fade: Aye. <twiddles thumbs>	17:42
X-Fade	Jaffa: It is summer, go outside and enjoy the nice weather. Drink a cold beer :D	17:43
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javispedro	bah	17:43
ShadowJK	Well how the hell as I as a user supposed to figure out if it's locked to unusableness or not :(	17:43
Jaffa	X-Fade: Some of us don't have Noridc holidays.	17:43
Jaffa	X-Fade: I'm at work for four more weeks, then I get two weeks off	17:43
X-Fade	Jaffa: Call it end of the work day and go outside? :)	17:43
Jaffa	ShadowJK: You wait for us to find out and tell you	17:43
javispedro	nice weather is like a bane here	17:43
Jaffa	X-Fade: Not an option	17:43
Jaffa	X-Fade: Besides, if I'm not at work, I'm doing more with Maemo/MeeGo/Harmattan, not less!	17:44
javispedro	Jaffa++	17:44
ShadowJK	Jaffa, maybe I could harass Nokia Care and record what they tell me so I can return it when it doen't do what they said it'll do :P	17:44
X-Fade	Jaffa: I thought you had enough magic powers to get that done? :)	17:44
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X-Fade	Anyway, there is an option in settings where you can say 'allow apps from untrusted sources' afaik.	17:45
Jaffa	Like Android	17:45
javispedro	and, what does it do? there's no gui to add new repos	17:45
javispedro	and if there's no .install support...	17:45
javispedro	chicken and egg problem	17:46
javispedro	or catch-22 as Jaffa said.	17:46
X-Fade	javispedro: You click on debs.	17:46
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ShadowJK	X-Fade, missing dependency handling then? :-)	17:46
ShadowJK	what about getting root and adding a repo	17:46
* javispedro face falls		17:46
X-Fade	javispedro: So, have a nice website with deb links. (Which we intend to add in MeeGo Apps)	17:46
X-Fade	ShadowJK: Dependencies are easy.	17:46
X-Fade	if the repo is added :)	17:46
javispedro	and, can we add the repo via a .deb? =)	17:47
X-Fade	Ahd of course that is what the installer app should do.	17:47
gri_	Maybe a repo editor shows up when you enable dev mode? (no clue)	17:47
X-Fade	For our apps client.	17:47
javispedro	or we register an url handler =)	17:47
ShadowJK	X-Fade, so you have one deb which contains some magic sed scripts to add the repo, and then a second click to install the actual program?	17:47
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javispedro	an _install:_ url handler ;)	17:48
X-Fade	ShadowJK: No, that can be a postinstall for the App client itself?	17:48
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Jaffa	javispedro: +1	17:49
ShadowJK	Seems like easiest thing for a linux user would be to get root and then use apt-get?	17:49
ShadowJK	If you even can get root..	17:49
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X-Fade	ShadowJK: that .004% of users that get that can use that too of course.	17:49
Jaffa	X-Fade: But I doubt "allow apps from untrusted sources" will be available in closed mode, and carriers may restrict to closed mode only. Which, if true, will mean I won't want to use apps.meego.com to reach the majority of users :-(	17:50
X-Fade	But a nice client helps :)	17:50
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javispedro	ShadowJK: also, I'm not sure if apps installed via apt-get will be uninstallable from launcher	17:50
javispedro	(meaning, you either use settings package manager -- if it exists -- or apt-get uninstall)	17:50
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Choom	is that "closed mode" a signature dependent thing?	17:51
X-Fade	Jaffa: I think this open mode is something else then developer mode.	17:51
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Jaffa	X-Fade: More stuff to investigate	17:52
* javispedro needs to commute, cya.		17:52
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Choom	I never buy carrier locked phones anyway, so it doesn't bother me	17:52
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Jaffa	Choom: Neither do I anymore, but as an application developer it worries me.	17:52
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Choom	plus I can perfectly understand the decision of app provider lockdown	17:53
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Choom	or lock-in	17:53
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Jaffa	Ditto. But that doesn't mean I don't want to understand the ramifications.	17:53
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Jaffa	If only people in open mode will be able to use my app, I'll use apps.meego.com for MeeGo 1.2 CE and Ovi for Harmattan.	17:53
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X-Fade	I haven't seen any indications that this will be limited.	17:54
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Choom	for nokia's own sake it better be	17:54
Choom	50% of apple's profit comes from the iphone	17:55
Choom	I doubt nokia would pass on the opportunity to tap into something like that	17:55
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Jaffa	Choom: ?	17:55
Jaffa	X-Fade: "this"?	17:55
X-Fade	Jaffa: Install from one source only.	17:55
Jaffa	X-Fade: Installing arbitrary debs with the power to do anything is exactly what Aegis is designed to prevent	17:55
Choom	by forcing people to distribute over ovi store they encourage users to use it, and potentially, developers to charge for apps, which in turn results in profit for nokia	17:56
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X-Fade	Jaffa: Mostly for replacing system things.	17:56
crashanddie	Choom, half of Apple's revenue comes from the iPhone sales (not applications, and not profit)	17:56
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ShadowJK	qgil said a "third party" could provide Korean support. I wonder how that is done if you can't replace system things :-)	17:57
Choom	I thought that figure also included the app store	17:57
DocScrutinizer	LOL	17:57
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Jaffa	ShadowJK: There are defined extension points	17:58
X-Fade	ShadowJK: It's called a plugin :)	17:58
ShadowJK	Well that'd be a first	17:58
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X-Fade	ShadowJK: Nah, locales have always been that way.	17:58
jonwil	dbus_g_proxy_connect_signal is an extremely annoying API :P	17:59
ShadowJK	Well you need input too, fonts, and configuring fontconfig so you don't get chinese or japanese...	17:59
X-Fade	ShadowJK: Input methods have always had support for plugins.	17:59
ShadowJK	How about subtitle support in video? :-)	18:01
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HRH_H_Crab	11:51:46 < HRH_H_Crab> i have a slightly odd problem. All my audio files seem to be using an icon cached from somewhere. does anyone know how i can reset that behaviour?	18:03
HRH_H_Crab	^ anyone able to assist from that?	18:03
HRH_H_Crab	the icon originated from metadata inside an mp3 but it now seems to be used for all mp3s (maybe flacs too)	18:03
ShadowJK	are those mp3s in the same folder?	18:04
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HRH_H_Crab	ShadowJK: yes	18:05
HRH_H_Crab	but the original file that contained the icon is long gone.	18:05
HRH_H_Crab	so it seems to have been cached somewhere mysterious.	18:05
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nikkk0	modest works again.	18:14
nikkk0	anyone experienced trouble for upload/sharing picture to facebook?	18:14
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crashanddie	yes, the TOS fuck you over completely.	18:40
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* jonwil refuses to have a Facebook account for that very reason		18:48
jonwil	watching "the social network" made me even less likely to get one	18:48
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ruskie	jonwil, you actually watched it?	18:54
jonwil	yes I did	18:54
jonwil	went to the cinema to see it	18:54
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jonwil	wasnt that bad actually	18:54
alterego	Yeah, it was okay ..	18:54
alterego	I watched it a couple of weeks ago actually.	18:55
* ruskie is happy he doesn't watch movies in general		18:55
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alterego	Pfft, movies are a great way to unwind :P	18:56
ruskie	anime, tv shows and watching game playthroughs for me ;)	18:56
alterego	now that sounds boring :P~	18:56
ruskie	besides actually playing games	18:56
ruskie	http://www.youtube.com/DSPGaming <-- I tend to watch this guys playthroughs ;)	18:57
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ruskie	but then I always enjoyed watching people play games	18:58
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DocScrutinizer	probably not very different from watching a football or baseball match in TV :-P	19:14
ruskie	probably for some people	19:15
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Proteous	the freemans mind "playthroughs" are great	19:31
* divan tired of people which tell that Maemo/Meego is dead because it's open-source and no company pushes it. I've heard enough exactly the same words 10 years ago about Linux in general.		19:31
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: (massive lag) you used to be able to remove modest - in PR1.1? times.	19:31
* SpeedEvil is reading backscroll		19:31
* ruskie is wondering when someone will make a good mail client for maemo		19:31
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alterego	ruskie: what's maemo? :P	19:35
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strohhalm	ruskie: the best i have seen is kmail (touch)	19:36
ruskie	alterego, or port something usable from meego if there is...	19:36
alterego	ruskie: not used the mail client :/	19:36
alterego	in meego ce ..	19:36
ruskie	strohhalm, where can one get that?	19:37
strohhalm	its included in kdepim-mobile or so	19:37
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strohhalm	http://userbase.kde.org/Kontact_Touch/Maemo5	19:38
ruskie	thanks	19:38
strohhalm	np	19:38
strohhalm	qt have some bugs, (3month ago) but all in all its usable	19:39
ruskie	does it integrate with the maemo address book and stuff?	19:40
rm_work	i use Modest (I guess? whatever the default is) and it works alright for my non-complicated needs (a couple Gmail accounts and one personal IMAP server account_	19:42
rm_work	)	19:42
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strohhalm	ruskie: no, have its own pim stuff :(	19:45
ruskie	:(	19:45
strohhalm	had not the time to look how to integrate	19:45
strohhalm	but it can gpg/smime	19:45
strohhalm	threads in mail and such stuff	19:45
merlin1991	Hm is the n900 cpu temp anywhere readable?	19:46
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nikkk0	hi	19:58
nikkk0	does sharing/upload pictures to facebook works on your side ?	19:58
nikkk0	:)	19:58
nikkk0	or am the only one to get account error?	19:59
RST38h	Moo?	20:02
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nikkk0	:)	20:03
MohammadAG	nikkk0, sociality will have photo uploads in the next version	20:08
DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: no, as there's no working sensor in silicon	20:08
MohammadAG	either wait for it or build the latest version from git	20:08
MohammadAG	merlin1991, desoler the cpu, make a hole, solder it back, plug a thermometer inside	20:09
merlin1991	lol :P	20:09
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: :-D	20:10
nikkk0	MohammadAG: Is it a way to say sharing + facebook didnt work for long time ?	20:10
nikkk0	can give a look @ git	20:11
DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: why would you want to now cpu temperature anyway?	20:11
DocScrutinizer	know*	20:11
ruskie	so that he couldy fry eggs on it ;)	20:11
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer: curious?	20:11
MohammadAG	nikkk0, it works for me (built in plugin)	20:12
merlin1991	Well I like to check cpu temps when I do insane things	20:12
DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: well, there's something in sysfs, but it's kinda off, broken, and rather unclear what's the actual meaning of the sensor at all. Just for curiosity it will work almost as good as /dev/random does	20:12
nikkk0	MohammadAG: ok :/ then i'm damned again heh	20:13
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MohammadAG	nikkk0, delete the account and remake it	20:14
nikkk0	MohammadAG: i wish i could :D	20:14
nikkk0	but i cant even add one !	20:14
DocScrutinizer	cat /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input	20:15
nikkk0	im stuck in the sharing parameters trying to add my own l/p then it tells account error ...	20:15
DocScrutinizer	sometimes you can get a reading that might kinda rightish	20:15
DocScrutinizer	sometimes you get an obviously locked never changing value	20:16
DocScrutinizer	sometimes you get mere random	20:16
rm_work	nikkk0: how recently have you updated your system?	20:16
ruskie	hmm 38... that could remotely be the right temp	20:16
nikkk0	rm_work: last week?	20:16
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RST38h	http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2011/06/will-the-real-stephen-elop-please-stand-up.html	20:16
rm_work	there was a bug for a while where the newer facebook integration plugin wouldn't actually update from the GUI updater, you need to go into a console and do apt-get update && apt-get upgrade	20:17
RST38h	probably just dramatic bullshit though	20:17
RST38h	still, amusing	20:17
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rm_work	nikkk0: if it lists anything that looks like it might be related, install the update from the console with apt, and reboot	20:17
rm_work	but that was a bug quite a while ago, not sure if it is still a problem	20:18
RST38h	and moo, rm_me	20:18
rm_work	yo RST38h	20:18
nikkk0	hmm i should be up2date	20:18
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nikkk0	installed/reinstalled fb many times	20:18
rm_work	just check	20:18
nikkk0	ok last step is to sniff traffic	20:19
nikkk0	see what goes on	20:19
rm_work	console apt != HAM	20:19
rm_work	srsly	20:19
nikkk0	yeah u ment apt right?	20:20
nikkk0	thats what i did	20:20
nikkk0	also tried last ver from ovistore	20:21
rm_work	k	20:21
nikkk0	lets try	20:21
rm_work	otherwise, no problems here with current default facebook integration	20:21
rm_work	at least last time i checked, can try again	20:21
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nikkk0	:)	20:22
nikkk0	well if u have time and dont mind pls	20:22
rm_work	testing	20:22
rm_work	looks to be working	20:23
rm_work	is uploading now	20:23
nikkk0	ok thanks for confirmation	20:23
nikkk0	:)	20:23
rm_work	yep, sent	20:23
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rm_work	i think it's feedservice-plugin-fb ?	20:24
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nikkk0	can be	20:24
nikkk0	lets try to reinstall it	20:24
rm_work	or -common	20:25
rm_work	or sharing-service-facebook or rtcom-accounts-plugin-facebook	20:25
nikkk0	heh theres so many :p	20:25
rm_work	yeah	20:25
rm_work	rtcom maybe if you're having problems just with account setup	20:25
DocScrutinizer	merlin1991: anyway you must not rely on the readings from that cpu temp thing for any purposes like e.g. overclocking or other nonsense, as it's not really the max temp of the CPU's hotspots	20:25
DocScrutinizer	even when it seems to work	20:26
SpeedEvil	merlin1991: The temp sensor in the omap is deprecated.	20:26
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SpeedEvil	It doesn't work on many/most devices.	20:26
SpeedEvil	It may have worked on old silicon.	20:27
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer: I'm not even thinking about oc	20:27
rm_work	wait	20:28
rm_work	if there's no temp sensor in the hardware, how does it have a temp sensor that's even SLIGHTLY accurate?	20:28
rm_work	does it try to guess somehow?	20:28
SpeedEvil	There is a temperature sensor.	20:28
SpeedEvil	It doesn't work properly, so the makers have said don't use.	20:28
rm_work	oh, gotcha, i guess he did say "no WORKING sensor"	20:29
DocScrutinizer	obody said there's none. I said there's not really any	20:29
rm_work	so there is a sensor in all of the boards, it just doesn't work. awesome >_>	20:29
nikkk0	hmm same error	20:29
nikkk0	ok lets sniff	20:29
SpeedEvil	There is a sensor on all of the battery monitoring chips which works.	20:29
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SpeedEvil	But it's not very close to the CPU	20:29
SpeedEvil	Probably also one in the cellmo and GPS.	20:30
RST38h	Compal will produce first Nokia WP7 phone	20:30
rm_work	lol	20:30
nikkk0	heh	20:30
DocScrutinizer	[2011-06-27 19:08:54] <DocScrutinizer> merlin1991: no, as there's no working sensor in silicon	20:30
rm_work	and THOSE work. but not the CPU sensor (the one that matters)?	20:30
nikkk0	wireshark start faster on my n900 than on my laptop :)	20:30
RST38h	remember how I said that wp7 phone will bre a relabelled HTC? ;)	20:30
rm_work	DocScrutinizer: yeah, as i said, i misread :P	20:30
SpeedEvil	The CPU temperature should not matter, as you can't cause it to get hot enough to matter	20:30
SpeedEvil	In principle.	20:30
rm_work	yeah and i guess there isn't much you could do if it did get hot besides shut it off or underclock it.... as there is no fan speed to control	20:31
DocScrutinizer	if you could, then the design were flawed	20:32
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nikkk0	so it query api.facebook.com do the tls handshake	20:33
nikkk0	then heh im blind	20:33
derf	RST38h: The sad thing is many of those statements actually are consistent with each other.	20:34
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npm	How does one find out about the status of Nokia developer launchpad application? Sent in application but haven't seen any response or acknowledgement that it was even received...	20:35
Khertan__	npw : and you can't edit	20:36
Khertan__	and pressing return have validate my forms	20:36
RST38h	derf: yes, that is why the article is mostly bullshit	20:36
Khertan__	so one line of stupid description	20:36
Khertan__	i ll not got it :(	20:36
RST38h	derf:the guy's butt is hurting so he is reading toomuch into things	20:36
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rm_work	Khertan__: you should probably have signed up via the meego site, not via launchpad, no?	20:38
rm_work	Khertan__: launchpad was for commercial developers and such I thought, according to qgil	20:39
rm_work	Khertan__: OSS devs were expected to sign up via meego device program	20:39
rm_work	which is editable	20:39
rm_work	:)	20:39
GeneralAntilles	and only has 250 devices	20:39
rm_work	truth	20:39
rm_work	sooooooo nevermind, too bad, guess you missed out T_T	20:40
GeneralAntilles	Deadline is tomorrow.	20:40
rm_work	is it?	20:40
rm_work	lol	20:40
rm_work	wonder how many applications they have so far	20:40
rm_work	did anyone post an estimate?	20:40
rm_work	like 4000?	20:40
GeneralAntilles	400 a couple days ago	20:40
GeneralAntilles	probably over 500 by now.	20:41
rm_work	500 isn't bad	20:41
rm_work	probably quite a few of those will be trivial to sort out	20:41
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rm_work	i wonder how many legitimate requests there are	20:41
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rm_work	i suppose it's possible there are actually 300-400 legit :/ which would be unfortunate	20:42
rm_work	i want to try to do something like lcuk's sketch for brightness changing	20:42
rm_work	and i never got scheduling implemented	20:42
* GeneralAntilles sighs at MeeGo.com's broken freaking login setup.		20:43
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rm_work	thinking something fairly simple, like "at 8:15pm, switch to brightness 30" and "at 9:30am switch to brightness 127"	20:43
rm_work	what is broken about it?	20:43
GeneralAntilles	Do it with ALS input, though.	20:43
GeneralAntilles	I'm logged in at the main site	20:43
RST38h	is it usabke?	20:43
RST38h	usable	20:43
GeneralAntilles	but not logged in on the wiki/forum/bugzilla/whatever	20:43
rm_work	ALS?	20:43
GeneralAntilles	so you have to logout at the main site	20:44
GeneralAntilles	and log back in for them to work.	20:44
GeneralAntilles	Ambient Light Sensor	20:44
RST38h	also, can't the builtin light sensor logic handle the same use case?	20:44
rm_work	lol	20:44
rm_work	yeah	20:44
GeneralAntilles	So, rather than specifying specific levels.	20:44
rm_work	maybe an option	20:44
GeneralAntilles	"Switch to Low at sunset, Switch to High at sunrise"	20:44
rm_work	erm	20:44
rm_work	except that would probably just be really annoying	20:44
rm_work	as it switches the brightness all over the place when you cover bits with your hand, etc	20:45
rm_work	but maybe	20:45
rm_work	i mean, unless it is REALLY dark, i like my device to be at 127	20:45
rm_work	but i can always give the option	20:45
rm_work	so	20:45
GeneralAntilles	I generally find the ALS useful.	20:45
rm_work	trigger: "Time" and select a time value, or "Light Sensor" and select "becomes greater than" and a value, or "becomes less than" and a value	20:46
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rm_work	result: select a brightness value	20:46
rm_work	easy enough	20:46
Khertan_n900	[19:41] <Khertan__> rm_work i signed for both : if i got one from launchpad i ll be for doing commercial appn[19:41] <Khertan__> if i got one from meego it ll be for doing foss apps	20:46
rm_work	i have a basic idea of the UI	20:46
rm_work	but if you want to sketch one :P	20:47
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rm_work	Khertan_n900: ah	20:47
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nikkk0	xah god	20:59
nikkk0	worked	20:59
nikkk0	fbook share account created :p	21:00
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nikkk0	uploading a pix	21:03
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nikkk0	ah rox	21:05
nikkk0	:)	21:05
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ruskie	hmm someone should borrow the kmail-mobile UI and graft it on something like a mobile claws-mail	21:10
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Khertan_n900	test	21:13
ruskie	eeeeeccc... error... test failed!	21:13
Khertan_n900	:)	21:13
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Khertan_n900	it ll be time to replace my n900	21:16
Khertan_n900	it ll be time to replace my n900	21:16
ruskie	why	21:16
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pauly_	hi n900 people	21:16
pauly_	anything new and exciting for n900	21:17
pauly_	?	21:17
Khertan_n900	screen sensibility is broken on half of the screen, battery is dying ... and usb failed to charge or being detected by computer	21:17
ruskie	:(	21:17
Khertan_n900	yep	21:18
pauly_	is there anything amazing to install as a widget thats requires no editing?	21:18
pauly_	something to show off	21:18
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rm_work	nikkk0: what fixed it	21:20
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rm_work	pauly_: gas-balls or something like that is supposedly cool	21:21
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rm_work	nikkk0: what fixed it	21:38
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C-S-B	I'm such an idiot.	21:44
C-S-B	I just rm -r in /opt	21:44
C-S-B	:\|	21:44
hiemanshu	C-S-B: I have done that too, more than once :P	21:44
C-S-B	anyway to get that back without a flash?	21:45
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GeneralAntilles	rm_work, up for another video viral marketing campaign for the N9?	21:46
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rm_work	GeneralAntilles: lol, sure, sup?	21:49
GeneralAntilles	rm_work, I'm thinking that given Elop's doing everything in his power to chop the N9 off at the knees.	21:49
GeneralAntilles	Our response should be some community-sourced marketing.	21:49
rm_work	hrm	21:50
rm_work	that'd actually be really cool\	21:50
rm_work	though part of me thinks that even if it did really well they wouldn't acknowlege it as the cause	21:50
rm_work	and would still be dumb	21:50
rm_work	but whatever	21:50
rm_work	it could be worth a shot	21:50
GAN900	Counter Elop	21:50
GAN900	Counter Intel's cohort of fools	21:50
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RST38h	General: Wrong	21:51
GAN900	The blogosphere seems to be behind the N9	21:51
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rm_work	so we'd need a good idea	21:51
RST38h	General: You can'tmarket something Nokia will refuse to produce or support	21:51
RST38h	Want a better idea?	21:51
GAN900	Kill ourselves.	21:51
RST38h	No	21:51
rm_work	GeneralAntilles: I'd be up for at least trying	21:51
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RST38h	Do our own UI based on QML	21:52
GAN900	RST38h, there's the other half	21:52
RST38h	Run it on top of Meego, on some generic non-Nokia hw used to run Android	21:52
GAN900	Early CSSU-type work	21:52
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alterego	Making sure I'm building in i18n support into the new Columbus UX from the start ..	21:55
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DocScrutinizer	rm_work: ( trigger: "Time" and select a time value, or "Light Sensor" and select "becomes greater than" and ) check out dwimd app	22:07
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DocScrutinizer	GAN900: I suggested some similar campaign a few days ago: step one: council declares free mameo/meego >>WE WILL SUPPORT IT, EVEN IF ELOP SENDS HIS KILLERS"	22:12
DocScrutinizer	WE are MEEGO	22:12
DocScrutinizer	and we will bring meego on every goddamn winp7 device Nokia dares to rollout	22:13
Sc0rpius	we who?	22:13
DocScrutinizer	doesn't matter	22:13
alterego	Anon :P	22:13
Sc0rpius	do you remember what happened to that OS that was in just one device?	22:14
Sc0rpius	hint: it starts with M and ends with aemo	22:14
DocScrutinizer	the less Elp can target a specific group, the more into the blue are his evil shots aginst meego	22:14
Sc0rpius	if Meego doesn't start appearing in several devices (Nokia or not) then it's dead already	22:14
Sc0rpius	but one thing happened in these past last days	22:15
DocScrutinizer	stock markets appreciated N9, users appreciated it. Now Trollop said "we won't continue even if it would succeed"	22:15
Sc0rpius	normal people (not geek) started to pay more attention to the N9 than a possible Windows Nokia phone.	22:15
Sc0rpius	exactly	22:15
Sc0rpius	that's my point	22:15
Sc0rpius	but Elop seems to ignore that	22:15
DocScrutinizer	we can counteract it by explaining WE will continue on meego	22:15
Sc0rpius	how can a DECENT board of directors of a DECENT company allow such comments like "I will abandon it even if it make us billionaires"	22:16
DocScrutinizer	he's got nothing to lose, his M$ portfolio is ~3.5nio$ I heard	22:17
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SpeedEvil	He dumped it in favour of nokia stock reportedly	22:17
DocScrutinizer	and Nokia asked him to do that job aiui	22:17
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alterego	They did, they gave him a lot of money to get him on board, apparently ..	22:18
DocScrutinizer	haha	22:18
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alterego	Makes you wonder if there wasn't a (make it look like you're getting him on board, but when we do this deal we'll give you 8billion)	22:18
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders if MWKN is worth a glance		22:19
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DocScrutinizer	contrutzie perfecsii ;-) first time I seem to understand 2 words at least when watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8jH_apD2k	22:32
ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/27/microsoft_patent_android/ <-- another one bites the dust	22:34
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ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/27/mission_impossible_mouse_attack/ <-- heh	22:37
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GeneralAntilles	Somebody title my MeeGo and Harmattan thread.	22:50
GeneralAntilles	MeeGo and Harmattan: ...	22:50
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GeneralAntilles	Something about making a confusing situation less so.	22:50
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ShadowJK	MeeGo, MeegoCE, Harmattan, Maemo6, Swipe, Swype, Skype: Idiot's guide to confusing names	22:54
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GeneralAntilles	Hehe	22:55
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: "MeeGo and Harmattan: Clearing a path"	22:57
GeneralAntilles	Nice.	22:57
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Atarii	Did NeoPwn v2 ever get released?	23:00
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MohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, MeeGo and Harmattan, the only reason contraception methods should be used	23:02
Khertan_n130	gnié ?	23:02
MohammadAG	you have to admit, that's a good title	23:02
Jaffa	WTF?! Qt Creator's stopped producing executables in the right place. <sigh/>	23:03
Khertan_n130	Jaffa: does it produce executale before ? ...	23:03
Khertan_n130	;à	23:03
Khertan_n130	:)	23:03
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* GeneralAntilles never considered sjgadsby the disappearancing type. http://twitter.com/#!/sjgadsby/status/85436690470150144		23:07
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Jaffa	Khertan_n130: Seems to	23:11
Khertan_n130	;)	23:11
GeneralAntilles	"Does 'viral marketing campaign for the N9' equal 'giving Elop swine flu'?"	23:13
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DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: nice MWKN :-D	23:15
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, now go thumb it up on Planet.	23:15
DocScrutinizer	err, I have to think if I know what you're talking about	23:15
GeneralAntilles	planet.maemo.org	23:16
GeneralAntilles	How do you upvote posts on planet.meego.com?	23:16
DocScrutinizer	me?	23:16
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, yes, go to planet.maemo.org and click the thumbs up next to the mwkn post. :P	23:17
DocScrutinizer	planet.x.y sounds to me like tle little bitching sister of tmo	23:17
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DocScrutinizer	well, I'll give it a try	23:17
GeneralAntilles	It's a news/blog aggregator.	23:17
DocScrutinizer	don't think I ever visited that URL	23:18
GeneralAntilles	mwkn sans the commentary and editorial interference.	23:18
DocScrutinizer	i.e. basically useless	23:18
GeneralAntilles	Eh, it's good for the stuff we don't cover.	23:18
GeneralAntilles	and good to get it before we manage to get the issue out. ;)	23:18
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DocScrutinizer	had a thing called planet.openmoko.org, same cruft	23:22
DocScrutinizer	plus I had to log in :-o No SSO?	23:22
GeneralAntilles	Promised for years	23:23
GeneralAntilles	never resulted in much	23:23
DocScrutinizer	anyway, voted, done. KTNXBYE	23:23
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GeneralAntilles	http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=23742 <- Jaffa	23:33
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Cool	23:38
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alterego	So, tomorrow is the DDP deadline, I'm doing my part, are you?	23:39
alterego	<Would you like to know more>	23:39
Jaffa	alterego: The end of today is the DDP deadline, presumably in either Finnish or Californian time ;-)	23:39
Jaffa	alterego: :)	23:39
Jaffa	"Find out how to fight the bugs with QML. <would you like to know more?>"	23:39
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Your sig's a bit out-dated on the forum	23:40
alterego	Heh	23:40
alterego	I've made some good prog	23:40
alterego	progress with Columbus QML Ux :)	23:40
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, goes to show how much I post there.	23:41
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GeneralAntilles	Though I still have the cloak here, too.	23:41
alterego	Just need to port a couple more widgets and the views are done, got translation support in from the get go this time, next stop is creating the UI menu system.	23:41
Jaffa	alterego: Cool. I'm nearly done with Attitude's first pass - for Maemo 5, Harmattan and Symbian.	23:42
javispedro	what? but I am yet to fill my application!!	23:42
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Jaffa	Need to get spare N900 back for MeeGo CE testing	23:42
javispedro	oh, I did already =)	23:42
mece	Jaffa, hey	23:42
* Jaffa is also convinced it'll be possible to use Qt Creator to transparently drive Scratchbox. Speed of native, but ease of IDE		23:43
mece	Jaffa, I seem to be suffering from a non working qemu. Is there a step I missed to get that thing running?	23:43
alterego	Jaffa: Yeah, using QML will open Columbus up to Symbian, MeeGo, updated Maemo5 and Harmattan	23:43
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Jaffa	mece: Make sure that the Qt version is set to Qt SDK, rather than Platform	23:43
mece	Jaffa, ok.. checking	23:43
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javispedro	Jaffa: I've read something about that on the blogosphere -- seemingly you can already do by just doing a few shell script wrappers	23:44
javispedro	(Qt Creator driving Sbox)	23:44
alterego	Harmattan scratchbox sdk runs like scht on my machine :/	23:44
Jaffa	mece: http://www.johanpaul.com/blog/2011/06/what-is-the-developer-story-for-the-nokia-n9/#comment-235155185	23:44
mece	Jaffa, it's "harmattan api platform	23:44
alterego	The UX seems fine, but apps are horrible.	23:44
Jaffa	javispedro: I read something on johanpaul.com but didn't seem to have everything wired up. If someone's already written the scripts, great!	23:44
Jaffa	alterego: At least they start. On qemu, even with hardware GL, the UX is slow and the apps don't start.	23:45
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alterego	Lame :/ looks like I'll be having to wait to do on device testing, as always ...	23:45
Jaffa	Yup	23:45
javispedro	apps don't start because applauncherd is down for some reason	23:45
javispedro	if it's happening to all of us, we need to file a bug	23:45
Jaffa	Ah	23:45
javispedro	I thought it was due to my "manipulation"	23:46
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Jaffa	It's definitely affecting qemu, but it's difficult to know if that's the problem.	23:46
javispedro	Jaffa: just grep for applauncherd =)	23:46
javispedro	I mean, psax\|grep applauncher	23:46
Jaffa	javispedro: With what? No terminal ;-p	23:46
javispedro	mad remote shell iirc	23:46
Jaffa	javispedro: ould add it to my postinst or something	23:46
Jaffa	javispedro: Really? Hmm.	23:46
Venemo	'killall applauncherd'	23:46
Venemo	(wild guess)	23:47
alterego	Where are the instructions for setting up qemu?	23:47
javispedro	note thought that trvially starting it up from 'user' didn't produce any output, and applications then failed with EPERM -- but then I didn't test any longer	23:48
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alterego	javispedro: did you tell me the other day that the scratchbox installer downloads the harmattan qemu rootfs?	23:48
MohammadAG	javispedro, I'm guessing qemu works in the same way as the armel target?	23:48
javispedro	alterego: not sbx, the other one.	23:48
javispedro	MohammadAG: quite different; what we understand by qemu in this context is system-qemu, which does complete emulation and runs a arm linux kernel	23:49
mece	hmm apparently qemu crashes ..	23:49
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javispedro	MohammadAG: otoh, sbox armel target does just user emulation, the arm kernel is not executed at all, system calls are handled by your x86 kernel with some magic.	23:49
javispedro	so system-qemu is way more accurate, but also way more slow.	23:50
lcuk	Jaffa, what was the issues with attitude you have needed to tweak	23:50
alterego	javispedro: the qt sdk?	23:50
javispedro	alterego: yep	23:50
alterego	Oh, where does it stick that then?	23:50
javispedro	alterego: ensure you choose everything about harmattan in experimental options when installing	23:50
alterego	Oh, I did :)	23:50
javispedro	alterego: on my box it shoved everything on /opt/QtSDK/Madde	23:50
alterego	No wonder it took 2G :D	23:50
Jaffa	lcuk: Being happy with the code structure; trying to auto-detect when Qt Quick Components is available (failed); getting rid of grey bar on Harmattan	23:51
javispedro	just run QtSDK/Madde/bin/mad remote -r rx71-harmattan-1122 poweron	23:51
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lcuk	Jaffa, you have a greybar?	23:51
javispedro	hey lcuk, have I congratulated you already? :D	23:51
Jaffa	lcuk: According to Quim.	23:51
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Jaffa	lcuk: Not sure I remember seeing it consistently in the SDK	23:51
lcuk	not sure javispedro there has been a flood of wellwishers :D	23:51
lcuk	it is amazing feeling actually	23:52
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alterego	javispedro: cool, thanks	23:52
alterego	Jaffa's going toa greybar?	23:53
Jaffa	alterego: For us old fogies to hang out and discuss cottaging in the Cotswalds	23:53
Jaffa	s/walds/wolds/	23:53
infobot	Jaffa meant: alterego: For us old fogies to hang out and discuss cottaging in the Cotswolds	23:53
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alterego	Heh	23:53
lcuk	Jaffa, you need hair to go there	23:53
javispedro	lcuk: congratulations again :D! also Finlay is a great name :)	23:53
alterego	Or the 770 days?	23:53
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Jaffa	lcuk: :-p	23:54
lcuk	javispedro, :D	23:54
* Jaffa has noticed in a few of the N9 threads on forum.meego.com, e.g. the apps.meego.com one, that it's got that old feeling of talk.maemo.org/ITT back		23:54
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javispedro	ah, this reminds me.	23:54
javispedro	I see there's a thread on TMO about creating N9 / N950 forums on TMO	23:55
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Jaffa	Eugh	23:55
javispedro	reggie said something that could be summed up as "why? meego.com contains fine handset forum already"	23:55
javispedro	now my question is.	23:55
MohammadAG	I have a gray bar in sociality too	23:56
MohammadAG	if I use showFullsScreen(), it's not there	23:56
javispedro	when the N9 is released, are you sure forum.meego.com will be capable of handling all of TMO's trolls?	23:56
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Using MTF or Qt Quick Components?	23:56
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javispedro	remember those drove Stskeeps away from TMO =)	23:56
MohammadAG	Jaffa, QWidgets	23:56
Jaffa	javispedro: A year ago, the MeeGo Project said something like "not an end-user forum"	23:56
javispedro	where will he go when he's driven off f.m.o? =)	23:56
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, frankly I think that can be solved by more active moderator policing.	23:56
GeneralAntilles	Our problem at TMO was that we didn't account well for the influx of idiocy.	23:57
MohammadAG	well, when Maemo 5 came, Maemo and Moblin merged => MeeGo	23:57
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lcuk	Jaffa, a year ago you said maemo would not be here :P	23:57
lcuk	or words to that effect	23:57
GeneralAntilles	Since it had always been the tree house hangout for fun and interesting people, it never needed (nor did we really want) much intervention from moderators.	23:57
MohammadAG	so when MeeGo/Harmattan comes, it'll merge with Android, so Stskeeps will have a new place to stay :p	23:57
Jaffa	lcuk: I didn't; I said it depends what happens with MeeGo. And Harmattan was a year late :-p	23:57
lcuk	which window manager is harmattan running?	23:57
lcuk	tru Jaffa	23:58
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: have to agree there.	23:58
alterego	lcuk: meegotough	23:58
alterego	touch ..	23:58
javispedro	mcompositor technically	23:58
lcuk	meegotough sounds better	23:58
GeneralAntilles	abill_uk should've been banned the first week he registered.	23:58
lcuk	ruggedized version	23:58
javispedro	haha	23:58
mece	I'll try to reinstall the qemu bit and see if that helps..	23:59
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GeneralAntilles	If we can stomp out corruption quickly I think f.m.c will be just fine.	23:59
mece	GeneralAntilles, who's corrupted?	23:59

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