IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-06-16

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Sazpaimon	there sure are a lot of people on tmo with very little grasp of english lately	00:06
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piggz	Sazpaimon: politeness and courtesy too most likely ;)	00:07
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ggoebel	maemo.org seems geared toward n900, is n8x0 still supported?	00:11
Sazpaimon	there's a few dedicated n8x0 users on the forum	00:11
ggoebel	good to hear	00:12
ggoebel	just picked my first n800 up off ebay	00:12
* lcuk ponders requesting maintainers for n8x0		00:13
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ggoebel	looking for a website or instructions which will bring me quickly up to speed.	00:14
ggoebel	looking for maintainers is hard when dealing with old hardware and volunteer projects	00:15
ggoebel	http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N8x0	00:15
ggoebel	appears like it may have stalled...	00:15
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ggoebel	was hoping being a linux device the support might be long lived	00:16
Sazpaimon	i thought meego has a 256MB minimum	00:16
Sazpaimon	or is that for x86	00:16
Sazpaimon	for ram that is	00:16
user0	hello :)	00:17
user0	hows everyone today?	00:17
andre__	ggoebel: it is linux based, but if those parts that are closed source don't receive updates by its owners those parts are stuck.	00:17
javispedro	"a few" is, like, 3.	00:17
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Sazpaimon	javispedro, more than a couple	00:18
ggoebel	andre__: <nod>	00:18
Sazpaimon	unless you swing that way	00:18
user0	MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer , how are you guys doing today?	00:18
user0	just sent my n900 back to the shop for them to deal with the problem	00:19
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jacekowski	ggoebel: linux has shorter support than windows	00:20
rm_work	lcuk: yeah, i hope ABL is still functioning properly and availble from extras	00:20
jacekowski	ggoebel: lot shorter	00:20
jacekowski	ggoebel: unless you can do it yourself	00:20
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Sazpaimon	yeah, usually when a new version of a linux OS comes out the old one is quickly abandoned	00:21
Sazpaimon	windows at least has a long term support cycle	00:22
derf	Windows also has a much longer release cycle.	00:22
ggoebel	nice... found http://www.gronmayer.com/it/	00:23
rm_work	windows also has fairly tight-fisted control over what happens at the OS level :P	00:23
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derf	They've already dropped support for the version two versions ago, it's just that was released in 2001.	00:23
ggoebel	jacekowski: depends on whether you're talking about driver support or programming apis	00:23
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Sazpaimon	derf, windows xp was a special exception	00:23
jacekowski	ggoebel: both	00:23
Sazpaimon	in microsoft's defense they created a new OS, canned it, and then made another while XP was out	00:24
ggoebel	jacekowski: beg to differ... but suppose we beg off the usual back and forth and agree to disagree?	00:24
Sazpaimon	talking about longhorn -> vista	00:24
rm_work	ggoebel: also http://ageofikon.com/packrat/	00:25
ggoebel	rm_work: thanks	00:25
jacekowski	ggoebel: get any linux app that was made 10 years ago, and try to run it now	00:25
lcuk	rm_work, :) https://github.com/lcuk/liqbase-playground/blob/master/sub_published/liqcontrolpanel/liqbrightness.c#L48	00:25
lcuk	still needs wiring up correctly!	00:26
rm_work	heh	00:26
rm_work	yeah	00:26
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rm_work	it's the wiring up that was annoying as @#&$ originally	00:26
rm_work	which is why i had to do it :P	00:26
rm_work	otherwise i feel like it would have been done	00:26
rm_work	oh, and figuring out how to make a GTK statusbar applet actually LOOK right	00:26
rm_work	>_<	00:26
lcuk	heh yeah	00:27
lcuk	i think it took several weeks to find a single define function	00:27
rm_work	yerp	00:27
rm_work	and garage.maemo.org's first successfully paid bounty :P	00:27
* rm_work bought jott a bear		00:27
rm_work	*beer!	00:27
rm_work	NOT A BEAR	00:27
rm_work	OH GOD	00:27
* rm_work is mauled		00:28
jacekowski	lcuk: why not link it at compile time?	00:28
lcuk	jacekowski, complex	00:28
lcuk	just needs a switch() statement really	00:28
rm_work	lcuk: ROFL: "// from the bowels of abl"	00:29
lcuk	but had other things work related sidetracking	00:29
lcuk	rm_work, ;)	00:29
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rm_work	was gonna say you needed to set the scaling factors properly, but then saw your comment at the top when looking for the defines :P	00:31
rm_work	because the system method is like... WTF	00:31
rm_work	the formula for that number is retarded	00:31
rm_work	T_T	00:31
rm_work	have you looked at autodetection for choosing the method yet?	00:31
rm_work	the way we did it was based on the hardware revision >_> which is... bleh	00:32
rm_work	but works	00:32
lcuk	rm_work, not looked in that file for ages	00:32
rm_work	i tend to write hacky code to get the job done at first and then go back to fix things once it actually WORKS end to end, doing regression testing as I go	00:32
lcuk	I did however find all the sketches relating to its design	00:32
rm_work	that's one of those things we never really found a better method for	00:33
rm_work	lol yeah	00:33
rm_work	i remember, you linked them :P	00:33
rm_work	would like to see the end product at some point	00:33
rm_work	it sounds like it'd work nicely	00:33
rm_work	i'm imagining putting my finger at the top, dragging left/right and also down, then getting to the next level and repeating, and again	00:34
rm_work	wonder if it actually works that smoothly in reality	00:34
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rm_work	though you have to meter the requests because otherwise you spam DSME and it goes whacko	00:34
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.20110615_223401.brightness.scr.png	00:36
lcuk	it would work today if it was wired up	00:36
lcuk	I however dunno which to do, send me a patch	00:36
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lcuk	rm_work, disco brightness ;)	00:37
lcuk	should have noise whilst you wiggle	00:37
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rm_work	lol yeah	00:37
rm_work	lcuk: what do you need a patch for? your file looked good, besides the scaling	00:37
rm_work	which is only really necessary for the sys method, i believe	00:37
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rm_work	which is only on 770 <_<	00:37
lcuk	i am currently setup on ideapad	00:38
rm_work	ah	00:38
rm_work	yeah	00:38
lcuk	my n900 is in user mode and scratchbox isnt running	00:38
rm_work	i never got HAL support functioning	00:38
rm_work	does Meego use HAL?	00:38
rm_work	or DSME still	00:38
rm_work	if it still uses DSME... well, you have the code	00:38
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rm_work	ABL was super useful for getting a real job BTW... I got to say things like "have experience with translation of applications using l10n :P	00:40
rm_work	"	00:40
lcuk	hehe indeed	00:40
lcuk	I am heading to London this weekend	00:41
rm_work	cool	00:42
rm_work	I'm not :(	00:42
rm_work	I wish I was	00:42
lcuk	heh	00:42
rm_work	that'd be awesome	00:42
lcuk	going to this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/blog/2011/jun/01/hactivate	00:42
rm_work	also a long and expensive flight <_<	00:42
lcuk	you would fall asleep in the mcdonalds :P	00:42
rm_work	LOL	00:42
rm_work	partnered with Nokia :P	00:42
rm_work	lcuk: lol	00:42
rm_work	at least I didn't VOMIT in the mcdonalds	00:42
lcuk	yes, true	00:43
rm_work	i'm holding on to that :P it's all I've got	00:43
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lcuk	:D	00:43
lcuk	the collective will of every McDonalds employee is also pleased	00:43
lcuk	rm_work, Nokia are supporting part of it sure	00:43
lcuk	but they say:	00:44
rm_work	i just think thats funny	00:44
rm_work	i was really impressed with them before, for supporting the community the way they did	00:45
rm_work	but now with Elop and all the crap thats going on, it's just "wtf"	00:45
rm_work	like, are they supporting us, or dropkicking us into the nether?	00:45
rm_work	I can't tell <_<	00:45
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lcuk	rm_work, meh	00:46
rm_work	lcuk: yes, "meh" describes how I feel right now about that	00:46
rm_work	but i guess for now i'll say "it's still cool that they're supporting the community like that"	00:47
lcuk	not sure where the balance is coming from	00:47
lcuk	but the first revisions of that and the paperwork I have talks about being platform agnostic	00:47
lcuk	but does not specify a toolkit	00:47
lcuk	so I can stand up and talk about liqbase bits	00:48
lcuk	in context of liqbase	00:48
lcuk	:)	00:48
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user0-	something just came to mind	00:50
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rm_work	lol	00:50
rm_work	user0-: OH NO	00:50
rm_work	quickly, forget everything!	00:51
* rm_work is in a jovial mood today		00:51
user0-	hmm they've done it already	00:51
lcuk	"they"?	00:51
user0-	https://elektranox.org/n900/screenshots.html	00:52
user0-	its just not everything works	00:52
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DocScrutinizer	what? that's obviously SHR	00:55
DocScrutinizer	of course we did it	00:55
DocScrutinizer	like 9 months ago	00:55
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user0-	DocScrutinizer : i sent the damn phone back to the shop	00:56
DocScrutinizer	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI&feature=related	00:57
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DocScrutinizer	user0-: probably best yu can do	00:57
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user0-	DocScrutinizer : i could have installed meego on an sd card and got the code	00:58
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ShadowJK	ah, bought device with lock code? :-)	00:59
user0-	but this shouldn't happen so let them deal with the problem	00:59
DocScrutinizer	sure you could, but that doesn't explain why it is acting up like it did	00:59
DocScrutinizer	exactly	00:59
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user0-	ShadowJK : it started asking for one after flashing it	00:59
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: yep, plus it wasn't resettable as it's supposed to be, according to MohammadAG	00:59
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ShadowJK	mmm supposed to be trivial to crack, but it takes effort i guess	01:01
user0-	DocScrutinizer : i was expressing how useless the rescue initrd was moments ago at #meego :P	01:01
DocScrutinizer	not trivial when system refuses to boot	01:01
DocScrutinizer	hehe	01:01
DocScrutinizer	I guess reply was .....	01:01
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user0-	that i was right and that the wiki page is missing a lot :P	01:02
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user0-	they were asking each other what was the point of usb networking	01:02
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: if you got the opportunity eventually, you'd not want to miss to test enabling lockcode prior to rootfs reflash, to see if it gets reset	01:02
DocScrutinizer	lol @ user0-	01:03
ShadowJK	Uh, i'm pretty sure it doesn't get reset?	01:03
user0-	the info online regarding that was mixed	01:03
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user0-	i ended up translating sites from Arabic and Chinese to know the answer yesterday	01:05
ShadowJK	isn't lock code stored with CAL and stuff..	01:05
user0-	didn't even get it, worked for some people, didn't for others	01:06
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: MohammadAG claims the fact it shall get queried is in gconf, and gconf gets reset on flashing rootfs	01:07
DocScrutinizer	a big hoax, but comes handy when overriding a forgotten lockcode	01:08
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ShadowJK	was it MohammadAG or someone else who stared at disassembly of NOLO and stuff..	01:08
MohammadAG	gconf should be stored on ~ imo	01:08
DocScrutinizer	alas I never heard anybody actually testing it, that's why I asked if you... eventually... (I'm rarely ever flashing rootfs)	01:09
MohammadAG	what does NOLO have to do with this?	01:09
MohammadAG	and no, it was probably jacekowski	01:09
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: jacekowski	01:09
ShadowJK	iirc he found the lock code in CAL, and figured out the default code is stored in plain text, and when setting code it gets stored as hash(code+salt), where salt is constant	01:10
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ShadowJK	but my memory isn't that reliable :P	01:10
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: (should be stored in ~) maybe it is, partially, and that's why you need to nuke both, rootfs AND eMMC	01:10
DocScrutinizer	would make a lot of sense	01:10
MohammadAG	no need to nuke eMMC to clear gconf actually :p	01:11
MohammadAG	just rootfs	01:11
MohammadAG	and setting a gconf value as root or user does the same	01:11
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: (figured default) that's been me :-)	01:11
ShadowJK	ah ok	01:11
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: please TRST it	01:11
DocScrutinizer	:-D	01:12
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MohammadAG	test what?	01:12
MohammadAG	it's 12345 on the other N900 here	01:12
DocScrutinizer	we all know how to simulate it with gconftool	01:12
MohammadAG	plain text	01:12
MohammadAG	I don't want to change that :P	01:12
DocScrutinizer	yes, that means you never changed it	01:12
MohammadAG	yeah, not my personal N900 so no reason to do so	01:12
user0-	DocScrutinizer : you remember the flashers output that was something like ( x kb of y kb ) yesterday ?	01:13
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user0-	you made a geekish joke back then with something regarding the speed of light..	01:13
DocScrutinizer	(simulate) and I believe in your tests with gconftool regarding the lockcode disabling. Nevertheless there might be more to it	01:13
user0-	y was 0 on windows	01:13
DocScrutinizer	user0-: yes	01:13
user0-	on linux x=y	01:14
DocScrutinizer	transmitting arbitrary amount of data in 0 seconds is speed-of-light for flashing	01:14
MohammadAG	how it should be	01:14
ShadowJK	I wonder if the gconf key is written to on boot	01:14
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, DocScrutinizer qwerty12 lost his key and had to recover, he found out flashing recovers access to the device	01:15
DocScrutinizer	well, if anybody dares to enable lockcode prior to next flash...	01:15
DocScrutinizer	we'd know for sure	01:15
user0-	:)	01:15
user0-	i'll be flashing it if it comes back with an older firmware tomorrow	01:15
DocScrutinizer	no problems as long as you know your own lockcode	01:16
user0-	so i'll do whatever testing you have in mind	01:16
user0-	thats for sure :)	01:16
MohammadAG	first post here http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=434946&postcount=1	01:16
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: ok, I'll look into it, but it might have changed, no?	01:17
DocScrutinizer	I can tell it's an old post, just from the URL ;-P	01:17
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MohammadAG	nah	01:18
user0-	12-19-2009	01:18
user0-	perhaps i'll get SHR running on an sd card before flashing tomorrow	01:19
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: also he doesn't state WHAT he had to flash, maybe >>let me remind you that I had to reflash the phone and blasted all of the files I had on here along with all my settings and applications<< implies he flashed eMMC too?	01:23
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, extra research shows http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=538825&postcount=2	01:24
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	01:25
DocScrutinizer	still I'm worried nobody succeded in actually doing it recently	01:25
user0-	MohammadAG : i read his/her posts yesterday	01:26
DocScrutinizer	I'd feel a WHOLE LOT better when talking users like user0- thru all of it, when I got some recent confirmation of the process working with PR1.3	01:26
MohammadAG	his, saying her in the maemo community wouldn't be sexism imo :p	01:27
MohammadAG	err, him*	01:27
DocScrutinizer	it's just so simple to change the cruft that checks lockcode on boot	01:27
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DocScrutinizer	so nobody knows if Nokia fixed that vulnerability in PR1.3 or not	01:27
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DocScrutinizer	if I were to implement that, I'd place a cookie to ~user/ as well, and only ignore lockcode if both rootfs and ~user got nuked	01:29
DocScrutinizer	so all your data is safe, and you recover by lockcode loss via FULL reflash (root&eMMC)	01:30
DocScrutinizer	clean solution - and so easy	01:30
user0-	DocScrutinizer : have you been getting many users with the problem?	01:31
DocScrutinizer	dunno	01:31
user0-	this*	01:31
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user0-	DocScrutinizer : if i find the time tomorrow i'll be flashing it a few times to see what was causing it	01:35
DocScrutinizer	cool, thanks	01:35
DocScrutinizer	don't forget your lockcode ;-)	01:35
user0-	:D	01:35
DocScrutinizer	just in case	01:36
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DocScrutinizer	btw, which process actually deals with lockcode?	01:44
DocScrutinizer	mce?	01:45
MohammadAG	wait for it, wait for it, mce	01:45
DocScrutinizer	hehe	01:45
MohammadAG	stop mce; sleep 1; start mce prompts for the code	01:45
DocScrutinizer	lol	01:45
DocScrutinizer	gonna strace the sucker ;-)	01:45
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DocScrutinizer	see where it looks for secret bits about asking lockcode or not	01:45
MohammadAG	gconf :p	01:46
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MohammadAG	just string the library with the UI in control panel	01:46
DocScrutinizer	why not ~user/.gnome/letslockit as well?	01:46
MohammadAG	it's libcpdevlock I think	01:46
MohammadAG	it's in /usr/lib/hildon-control-panel	01:46
MohammadAG	cause Nokia didn't think an average crook can flash rootfs	01:47
DocScrutinizer	I'll jus see if it touches eMMC when enabling lockcode	01:47
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MohammadAG	nope, sure it doesn't :p	01:48
DocScrutinizer	as it would need to flip both toggles if there's one in rootfs and one somewhere hiding on eMMC	01:48
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: how do you know?	01:48
DocScrutinizer	given I had source of mce, I'd "fix" this vulnerability in ~5min	01:50
DocScrutinizer	refer what they did with cherry ;-)	01:51
MohammadAG	I dug around a lot when looking for something for chem\|st	01:52
MohammadAG	not sure what it was	01:52
DocScrutinizer	-- if get-gconf(GCONFKEY_USE_LOCK)	01:55
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DocScrutinizer	++ if get-gconf(GCONFKEY_USE_LOCK) or fstat(PATH_TO_LOCKCOOKIE_IN_HOME, void)	01:55
DocScrutinizer	can go to mce any time, for any past or future mce update Nokia ships	01:56
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DocScrutinizer	unless somebody compares md5 for mce in PR1.0 with what we got today and oesn't find a diff, we don't know for sure	01:57
DocScrutinizer	or somebody demonstrates flashing rootfs is sufficient for PR1.3	01:58
DocScrutinizer	arguably the option to boot meego or rescue-initrd and access eMMC data this way somewhat completely defeats the purpose of a lockcode	01:59
DocScrutinizer	but you never know if they didn't think they at least should fix the unprotected MyDocs from simple rootfs flashing which is what every noob would try first to unlock the device	02:01
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DocScrutinizer	Nokia could even fix NOLO and completely protect the device this way	02:03
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DocScrutinizer	NOLO: if I'M_FLASHING_ROOTFS and check-cal-key(MCE-HAS-SET-LOCKCODE, "yes") then {set-cal-key(LOCK-CODE, "invalid); set-calkey(MCE-HAS-SET-LOCKCODE, "reflash-emmc-too-to-unlock")};	02:09
Scelt	nolo means ackward in Finnish	02:09
DocScrutinizer	yo	02:09
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DocScrutinizer	and FIASCO means... errhm	02:10
Scelt	I guess the developers of Nolo also knew it ;)	02:10
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DocScrutinizer	btw my approach as sketched above still has vulnerabilities, but definitely it would spoil the day for joe random-lifter interested in your data	02:13
rm_you	joe random-lifter will say "hrm, this looks like a cellphone. sell to pawn-shop."	02:19
rm_you	i think you may be overestimating the majority of the criminal element	02:20
rm_you	"but you never know if they didn't think they at least should fix the unprotected MyDocs from simple rootfs flashing which is what every noob would try first to unlock the device"	02:20
rm_you	rofl	02:20
rm_you	every noob wouldn't even know what maemo is	02:20
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DocScrutinizer	this doesn't really matter here, does it?	02:29
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rm_you	just saying	02:30
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rm_you	you make it sound like any random person on the street might pick up my cell phone and immediately think "AH, I know, I'll just flash the rootfs and that way i'll have easy access to his data" >_>	02:31
rm_you	90% of people on the street will be like "durrr, cellphone" and the rest will be like "cool, smartphone... wait, this isn't android. LAME."	02:31
DocScrutinizer	as long as the average service shop finds the MyDocs data gets exposed despite lock code, on a regular flashing of "firmware", this might just be sth Nokia feels the should change	02:32
rm_you	your point is still valid though if you're legitimately concerned with security	02:32
rm_you	hopefully you understand my point tho :)	02:33
DocScrutinizer	yes	02:33
DocScrutinizer	I simply didn't bother to elaborate in it	02:33
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rm_you	i'm just poking fun mostly, as it seems you're the pedantic person in this channel most often :P	02:34
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DocScrutinizer	as it's about what Nokia might wnat to do or have done already, not about actually implementing sth community driven to improve security	02:34
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smhar	I have lost my N900 -actually stolen- and after using another phone for a month I am dying to get an N900 again, so I am checking ebay for used ones. what is a good price for a used N900 in good-condition?	02:36
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wblaze	smhar: I paid $300CAD recently	02:37
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wblaze	and watched a brand new phone sold for the same price	02:38
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DocScrutinizer	on a random shop I've seen two used ones sold for 240EUR	02:39
DocScrutinizer	I think it's too much though	02:39
DocScrutinizer	s/sold/on sale/.	02:40
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smhar	tried local shops here, no new and no used. I felt like I am the only one who is -was- using it :-)	02:41
SpeedEvil	smhar: where are you?	02:42
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DocScrutinizer	I've been amazed when I've seen that pair of N900. Been the first time I've seen one in a shop	02:42
smhar	SpeedEvil, Bahrain	02:42
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SpeedEvil	I found I'm getting ads from nokia as baner ads, advertising the n900 as still for sale on contract. UK only. And I don't know if it's real.	02:43
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wblaze	they're still on sale new in canada	02:44
smhar	SpeedEvil, Nokia and their local agent here never ran an ad for N900. it was a very silent comer to the market	02:45
wblaze	stores aren't stocking them though, as far as I have seen - it's special order only	02:45
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wblaze	price is rediculous though	02:47
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smhar	I think Nokia discontinued it	02:49
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DocScrutinizer	http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10130	02:56
DocScrutinizer	(2 N900)	02:57
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DocScrutinizer	I wonder how long share.ovi.com will persist - wasn't it discontinued?	03:35
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iluminator101	hi when i play certain videos on n900 after i play it once it says file not supported?	04:34
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GonzoTheGreat	are you overclocking?	04:45
GonzoTheGreat	or undervolting	04:46
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DocScrutinizer	iluminator101: there's a known issue with some video encoded in some particular format makes the GFX hw accel hang. AFAIK you have to reboot after that to recover. Shouldn't say "file not supported" for just one file then, but doesn't playback any video	05:12
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DocScrutinizer	the effect is reproducable with particular "offending" video files	05:12
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DocScrutinizer	probably a bug in the hw accel decoder code	05:13
DocScrutinizer	actually OC and messing with core voltages can also cause a lockup, and in case of OC this can be permanent flaw that causes frequent lockups even when clock is reverted to normal	05:15
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SpeedEvil	Corrupt files can also wedge the decoder in a state that needs a reboot	05:18
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GonzoTheGreat	I can reproduce this undervolting. The "gpu" really doesn't like it.	05:30
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DocScrutinizer	sure, otherwise Nokia had chosen lower voltage to make for longer battery endurance	05:31
GonzoTheGreat	Some people are just lucky. But then again they probably have dodgy usb ports	05:32
DocScrutinizer	and if OC was without risk and damage, Nokia for sure would not run the device underclocked to give nerds sth they can "add 2 eggs and a glass of milk to bake the cake"	05:32
iluminator101	DocScrutinizer, exactly have to reboot	05:34
DocScrutinizer	warranty is max 2 years afaik. So expect device to break in less than that when you overclock. Of course that's worst case scenario	05:34
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GonzoTheGreat	Then mine runs quite ok slightly overclocked and undervolted. Just enough to get better battery and play some videos it wouldn't otherwise.	05:34
iluminator101	DocScrutinizer, how can i fix this	05:34
DocScrutinizer	don't play back the killing file	05:34
GonzoTheGreat	iluminator101: so are you undervolting or not?	05:35
iluminator101	GonzoTheGreat, no stock didnt make any changes	05:35
GonzoTheGreat	did you pause the video?	05:36
DocScrutinizer	find which file kills the gfx engine. delete the file	05:36
DocScrutinizer	get same movie in another encoding or rate or whatever	05:36
iluminator101	GonzoTheGreat, yea sometimes	05:36
GonzoTheGreat	Seem to remember it did that for me. It couldn't resume from those points.	05:37
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GonzoTheGreat	I can't remember where those "bookmarks" are stored.	05:37
GonzoTheGreat	Try moving it somewhere and rename it and moving it back. It think it is handled by tracker.	05:38
* GonzoTheGreat waits for DocScrutinizer to get warmed up		05:38
DocScrutinizer	err wut?	05:39
GonzoTheGreat	I mentioned the "t" word	05:39
DocScrutinizer	it's some particular encoding sequence occasionally occuring in random arbitrary video files. If you run into such a file that has the killer sequence, you can do really little about it	05:40
DocScrutinizer	meh	05:40
DocScrutinizer	the t word gets eaten for breakfast	05:40
SpeedEvil	You can add another media player - mplayer for example - and watch it using that.	05:40
DocScrutinizer	and actually is unrelated here	05:41
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: indeed	05:41
DocScrutinizer	good point	05:41
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GonzoTheGreat	DocScrutinizer: could it be that seeking to a "bookmarked point" in certain files could trigger this but not playing "across" this point?	05:46
DocScrutinizer	might, but unlikely	05:47
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DocScrutinizer	well, maybe there are special "hints" for searching in such video files, that aren't used for normal playback	05:47
DocScrutinizer	so if such a hint is flawed... X-[	05:48
DocScrutinizer	hints like a linked list of forward pointers to next second, minute, etc	05:48
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DocScrutinizer	you'd not need that for normal playback, but for searching to a particular point it's useful, and can break things if such pointer is defect	05:50
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DocScrutinizer	usually the distance between 2 i-frames (full picture) is limited, i.e. there must not be more than x differential frames between 2 i-frames. Sometimes encoders violate that rule. Results may vary depending on decoder	05:54
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internetishard	Is there a way to make the n900 only connect to one wifi network?	06:12
internetishard	automatically that is?	06:12
internetishard	so it doesn't connect randomly to every network it sees, except for my home network	06:13
DocScrutinizer	err yes	06:14
wblaze	isn't that the default behavior?	06:14
DocScrutinizer	look on tmo for details	06:14
DocScrutinizer	I thought as well	06:14
wblaze	I usually switch off wifi when I am out anyway... but still	06:15
DocScrutinizer	connect auto only to known networks	06:15
* DocScrutinizer never		06:15
wblaze	meh, battery life is bad enough without scanning wifi while driving	06:16
DocScrutinizer	N900 does wlan@home -> GPRS when I leave home, and it goes gprs -> wlan@MyPub when I arrive there	06:16
internetishard	oh, so you make only one network "known"?	06:17
internetishard	how is this done?	06:17
wblaze	settings->internet connections->connections	06:18
DocScrutinizer	settings -> internet connections: "automatic coonect"->all , "[x] switch to wlan when available"	06:19
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wblaze	delete any wifi profiles not your home wifi	06:19
DocScrutinizer	under connections -> connections you get the known ones and can delete those you don't like	06:20
DocScrutinizer	depending on your needs for battery life and connectivity you may want to use an interval for WLAN search of 5, 10, 30, or 60 min	06:21
DocScrutinizer	wblaze: how long are you driving?	06:22
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DocScrutinizer	;-)	06:22
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DocScrutinizer	I'm using a scan interval of 10min and think that's just fine	06:23
wblaze	depends on the day	06:23
DocScrutinizer	esp since UMTS fills in the gaps between wifi hotspots and scan intervals	06:24
DocScrutinizer	which I'm going to demonstrate right now	06:24
DocScrutinizer	o/	06:24
wblaze	often multiple hours	06:25
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internetishard	that means I can't save wep keys for connects that I don't want to auto connect to?	06:27
internetishard	I've dozens of profiles that will probably come in handy at times	06:28
wblaze	disable those profiles	06:28
wblaze	enable when needed	06:28
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internetishard	how?	06:28
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wblaze	hm, apparently not	06:29
internetishard	Indeed, this is annoying functionality	06:29
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internetishard	They really need to open up their software so we can fix all the non-sensical stuff	06:29
internetishard	like not have groups in the address book	06:29
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SpeedEvil	internetishard: indeed	06:29
wblaze	i find it easier to just use wifi switcher, tbh	06:30
internetishard	I thought they dropped support... why don't they have it open already?	06:30
SpeedEvil	internetishard: It's still actually for sale in some markets.	06:30
internetishard	I'm tired of manually switching to wifi everytime I get home, and forget, and then get a skype call over 3g or something	06:30
SpeedEvil	But - logic doesn't work so well.	06:31
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DocScrutinizer51	~moo	07:08
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass		07:08
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internetishard	Hope I can get an easy work around for this soon	07:19
internetishard	I want to have all of those profiles since they've lots of wep keys saved, but I only want to auto connect to one network (home)	07:19
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cloudyLights	~seen lardman	10:17
infobot	lardman <~lardman@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 12h 31s ago, saying: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13759612'.	10:17
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DocScrutinizer	~moo	10:24
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass		10:24
DocScrutinizer	~smack cloudyLights	10:25
* infobot smacks cloudyLights upside the head.		10:25
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Macer	wtf?	10:37
DocScrutinizer	Macer: ?	10:38
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DocScrutinizer	do you also want a smack from infobot ?	10:39
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DocScrutinizer	it's so nicely ambiguous	10:40
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Macer	i am a cow moo?	10:42
Macer	wtf? :)	10:42
Macer	i used my g2 for 2 days before i couldnt take android anymore and swapped back to my n900	10:43
ruskie	hehe	10:43
Macer	i just have had it collecting dust	10:44
Macer	wish i could put maemo on it :)	10:44
Macer	that would be so awesome	10:44
Macer	the hardware isn't too bad	10:44
Macer	flimsy.. but internally it is ok	10:45
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, confirmation needed (by actual EE)	11:27
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DocScrutinizer	http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Devices ...	11:29
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tzafrir	bah. I just had my N900 ring non-stop. Had to power it off to stop it from ringing	11:31
cloudyLights	hi tzafrir	11:35
cloudyLights	didnt know you own a N900	11:35
cloudyLights	I am assuming you are that asterisk dev - right?	11:36
tzafrir	yes	11:36
cloudyLights	want to test this app I wrote?	11:36
tzafrir	What is it?	11:36
cloudyLights	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74030	11:37
cloudyLights	switch the profile according to the meetings in the calender	11:37
tzafrir	I hardly use meetings, so I'll pass	11:38
cloudyLights	also , did you see the attempt to raise funds to get waze on N900?	11:38
cloudyLights	any special code you wrote lately?	11:38
tzafrir	and no. I hardly care about waze. I like to keep my phone clean	11:38
cloudyLights	btw, I no longer work for VS	11:38
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cloudyLights	tzafrir: did you write any code for the N900?	11:40
tzafrir	No, not really	11:40
cloudyLights	any GPL code you published lately?	11:40
cloudyLights	just to know if there is anything new.....	11:41
tzafrir	Mostly asterisk-related things	11:44
cloudyLights	yes I know	11:44
cloudyLights	I just synced my work calender (exchange) with my N900	11:45
cloudyLights	mail for exchange - WORKS	11:46
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cloudyLights	I used to try it with google and fial	11:46
cloudyLights	fail	11:46
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cloudyLights	hi Khertan_	11:53
cloudyLights	I am so new to development in FSF	11:53
cloudyLights	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74030	11:54
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Khertan_	Morning !	12:13
Khertan_	cloudyLights: Hi	12:13
cloudyLights	morning	12:13
Khertan_	cloudyLights: congrats now you have just to push it to extras devel :)	12:13
cloudyLights	I was so happy yesterday , that I finally got a deb file	12:13
cloudyLights	I thought about this app 5 years ago	12:14
cloudyLights	and promissed to code it on my N900 - when I got it	12:14
cloudyLights	actually I bought the N900 to push me to develop for it	12:14
cloudyLights	so now after so much time , I got a working program	12:15
cloudyLights	thanks you	12:15
Khertan_	your welcome	12:16
Khertan_	can i suggest you KhtEditor to code on device ? :)	12:16
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cloudyLights	hmm, I used vi	12:16
Khertan_	cloudyLights: http://khertan.net/khteditor	12:16
cloudyLights	I used ssh to the N900 , but also the N900 keyboard on the bus	12:17
Khertan_	yep but vim on maemo wasn't compiled with python so cannot syntax check on the flight	12:17
Khertan_	with pyflakes :)	12:17
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cloudyLights	pyflakes.... ok	12:19
cloudyLights	I wish I had a location lib for python	12:19
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Khertan_	a location lib ?	12:20
cloudyLights	I still need to write a program to deal with profile	12:21
cloudyLights	to allow my SO to ring , even if the phone is in silent	12:21
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cloudyLights	but then , I need an application to wake me up in the bus	12:22
cloudyLights	when I am near my stop - wake me up	12:22
cloudyLights	say: if the cellular tower changes to X - alert me	12:22
Khertan_	hum ... you can use QtMobility.Location for gps	12:25
Khertan_	but not sure you can catch cellular tower	12:25
cloudyLights	cellular tower info - is cheap on the battery	12:25
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Khertan_	cloudyLights: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.2/qgeoareamonitor.html could interest you	12:28
robbiethe1st	Bah! Just attach a home-made 3000+mAh battery, never worry about it running out again!	12:28
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DocScrutinizer	cloudyLights: you should look into dwimd	12:29
DocScrutinizer	I think development stalled at some point, but it did kinda work	12:30
DocScrutinizer	iirc	12:30
DocScrutinizer	cloudyLights: http://maemo.org/packages/view/dwimd/	12:32
cloudyLights	right - I see this	12:32
DocScrutinizer	I contributed a few ideas and concept bits, so I think this is a rather nice concept	12:33
DocScrutinizer	;-)	12:33
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Khertan_	cloudyLights: you could also use agps data only : QGeoPositionInfoSource::NonSatellitePositioningMethods	12:39
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ShadowJK	in Maemo4 there was location bindings for python	12:44
DocScrutinizer	hmm	12:44
DocScrutinizer	~lart qtmobility	12:44
* infobot nukes qtmobility with a single large nuke		12:44
ShadowJK	isn't qtmobility the thing that runs all sensors all the time, eating battery	12:45
DocScrutinizer	yes	12:45
DocScrutinizer	probably developed on i5 servers for laptops	12:46
DocScrutinizer	I'm not at all excited about it	12:47
DocScrutinizer	alas there'll be plenty of apps built on qtm, and then users flame about N900 hw again - "ohnoes it cuts thru 5 batteries a day. This phone is such a piece of ****"	12:49
Dibblah	Cool. Load-tested my new battery.	12:50
Dibblah	1604mAh last measured discharge.	12:51
Dibblah	(After 3 cycles, last two were the same.	12:51
ruskie	http://regmedia.co.uk/2011/06/13/motorola_atrix_5.jpg <-- at a quick glance it looks almost like a maemo device	12:51
ShadowJK	What battery is that?	12:51
ShadowJK	and cycle count since learning?	12:52
Dibblah	http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/601765/209996492-436082429/Lithium-ion-Battery-for-Nokia-BL-5J-5230-5800XM-5233-N900-1420mAh-Free-Shipping.html	12:53
Dibblah	0	12:53
Dibblah	by "the same" I mean 1592	12:54
ShadowJK	ah	12:54
Dibblah	Absolutely massive presentation case, though. Almost as big as a VHS box.	12:54
Dibblah	And they sent 3 of them.	12:54
Dibblah	... Admittedly, they sent 3 because I ordered 3.	12:55
ShadowJK	I'd get one of those but I'm worried about the extra thickness :)	12:55
Dibblah	Not really an issue.	12:55
Dibblah	It fits just fine.	12:55
ShadowJK	Worried extra pressure is a contributing factor to the "crossed out sim" plague :)	12:56
Dibblah	The humorous part to me is it's marked as a 1420mAh cell.	12:56
ShadowJK	Well, bq27200 measures down to 3248mV and assumes there's 6% left, which isn't necessarily the case..	12:57
DocScrutinizer	shouldn't there be no pressure to SIM holder at all, from battery	12:57
DocScrutinizer	?	12:57
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, the sim holder is probably not relevant	12:58
DocScrutinizer	aah	12:58
Dibblah	It is slightly heavier, which I find interesting.	12:58
ShadowJK	in dmesg it looked like cellmo was crashing or the data lines between cellmo and omap glitching	12:59
Dibblah	Normal cell - 27.13g. New cell - 30.64g.	12:59
Khertan_	ShadowJK: qtmobility run all sensor if dev do nawak ... else only things asked by the dev	13:00
ShadowJK	So typical Nokia soldering + periodic warping/bending + internal temp 60C == cellmo coming loose almost like musb port? :)	13:00
* ShadowJK is just guessing		13:00
ShadowJK	"nawak"?	13:00
RST38h	How do you BEND the freaking N900 board?	13:00
RST38h	During operation?	13:00
jaska	telekinesis	13:00
RST38h	+ N900 rarely exceeds 37oC	13:01
DocScrutinizer	haha	13:01
Khertan_	ShadowJK: nawak ... hum sorry a french argo words ... == stupid things	13:01
Khertan_	stupid unlogical things	13:01
Khertan_	:)	13:01
DocScrutinizer	oh tepco	13:02
ShadowJK	RST38h, mine hit 60C in car when on charger, running navigation, streaming internet radio over hspa to car radio over fmtx :-)	13:02
ruskie	hehe	13:02
ruskie	insane setup	13:02
RST38h	ShadowJK: Uh!	13:02
DocScrutinizer	~tepco	13:02
Khertan_	RST38h: else if you let it in your car like me ... it hit 70C and battery was killed	13:02
infobot	'tepco' (1 of 2): sth especially stupid or messed up; "this construction is completely tepco"; "please stop behaving tepco"	13:02
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RST38h	ShadowJK: Mine got really hot only once - getting some torrents overnight, before qwerty12 fixed the throttling	13:02
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RST38h	Khertan; No way I am leaving the Precious in my car!	13:03
ShadowJK	it was like 700-900mA power consumption for 3 hours :P	13:03
Khertan_	using pylint on large source code can also make it hot	13:03
Khertan_	and drain battery in less than 30min	13:03
ShadowJK	btw, it was awesome. The music paused for the naigation instructions, and then resumed. through car speakers :)	13:03
robbiethe1st	Leaving mbarcode open, at 1ghz can also make it hot ;)	13:03
Khertan_	RST38h: i ve two precious. ... and i forgot one in the car :)	13:04
ShadowJK	draining battery in 30 minutes is kinda impossible	13:04
Khertan_	ShadowJK: it is !	13:04
Khertan_	ShadowJK: i do it more than one time	13:04
ShadowJK	Largest drain I've been able to get was about 1250mA, which still runs for almost an hour	13:04
edheldil	I have to buy car charger for mine. My old charger is unable to make it charge	13:04
DocScrutinizer	LOL	13:04
DocScrutinizer	NO way	13:05
Khertan_	put large source code on the sd card	13:05
Khertan_	and use pylint to check it	13:05
ShadowJK	khertan, are you aware that battery icon shows full until 50% or so :)	13:05
DocScrutinizer	battery has 4.9Wh, which means your device would melt away at ~10W	13:05
ShadowJK	your battery probably wasn't full to start with.. or then you have one of those cheap ebay batteries that say 1930mAh but actually have 600mAh	13:06
Dibblah	Just measured. Old cell - 5.56mm x 60.00mm x 37.8mm New cell - 5.95mm x 60.00mm x 37.8mm	13:06
DocScrutinizer	I think there's no way to go <90min, unless you find a way to short the battery or make some chips desolder themselves	13:06
Dibblah	So the only difference is .5mm in thickness.	13:07
Dibblah	That's including all labels, etc.	13:07
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, I wonder where battery protection chip cuts off for overcurrent?	13:07
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DocScrutinizer	some 2..3A	13:08
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DocScrutinizer	iirc	13:08
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DocScrutinizer	some simply cut out on V(vlow) on internal resistance	13:09
DocScrutinizer	I mean you got internal impedance of cell, plus PTC	13:10
DocScrutinizer	easy to bomb that down to <3.0V	13:11
Dibblah	https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XfAG8C6LhTk/TfnWrFtP1FI/AAAAAAAABhY/3rAq6afFcbk/s800/20110616_001b.jpg	13:11
Dibblah	Picture of the insane presentation case.	13:11
* DocScrutinizer drools over MX... while glaring on the disassembled twin here		13:12
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Dibblah	That's the GF (not grapefruit)'s MX.	13:12
DocScrutinizer	~nuke OMRON switches and whole OMRON	13:13
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at OMRON switches and whole OMRON ... B☢☢M!		13:13
Dibblah	I now have the Performance MX (Now with Less Features!)	13:13
Dibblah	I was actually expecting the Performance MX to work as a USB mouse when USB tethered :(	13:13
DocScrutinizer	I mean, how bad is THAT - sell a 80EUR mouse and use 20ct crap switches that are known to break after 2 years of normal use for everybody	13:14
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* DocScrutinizer utters curses against logitech		13:16
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gomiam	DocScrutinizer: hey, if you can spend 80 euros on a mouse now, you can do it again in two years. If you can't you should have bought the 40 euro one :P	13:22
Khertan_	ShadowJK: i didn't use this ebay cheap battery	13:23
Khertan_	ShadowJK: and battery was fully charged according to the green led :)	13:23
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DocScrutinizer51	Khertan_: I used all tricks I could figure to crank up discharging (except overclocking), and I could"mt get down to 1h with normal bat worth of discharge current	13:55
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DocScrutinizer51	30min for eating 5Wh is mere impossible	13:56
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Khertan_	DocScrutinizer51: maybe i should check my battery so	14:00
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Khertan_	DocScrutinizer51: the battery is inflated .... 2 or 3 mm	14:01
Khertan_	:(	14:01
DocScrutinizer	there's been a report about somebody killing his battery due to overheating by iirc transcoding a video on OC	14:01
DocScrutinizer	even that took longer than 30min I think	14:02
Khertan_	DocScrutinizer: mine probably got some trouble the day i forgot my n900 in the car	14:02
DocScrutinizer	Khertan_: so dispose it somewhere where explosions won't damage anything (no kidding)	14:02
DocScrutinizer	definitely	14:03
cloudyLights	DocScrutinizer: my freind manage to break his usb connector in his N900	14:03
Khertan_	DocScrutinizer: i ll give it to seller when i ll buy a new one	14:03
Khertan_	55Euros ... pfff	14:03
cloudyLights	I remeber you gave a lot of advice on how to replace the connector	14:03
mece	There's a danger with lithium batteries if they've bloated on overheating while discharging, they might catch fire if you recharge them.	14:03
mece	careful with that.	14:04
Khertan_	mece: i know i see some really dangerous things with more powerfull laptop battery	14:04
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Khertan_	mece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJCZ4ayioCU	14:06
DocScrutinizer	Khertan_: http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10107	14:07
haj	Okay.. Looks like i'm out regarding to N900...	14:07
haj	" Please kindly be informed that N900 swap units are not available any more	14:07
haj	and the official replacement swap units of N900 is N8. Therefore you	14:07
haj	received this model, please do not send back the device."	14:07
DocScrutinizer	WTF??	14:08
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kerio	¿qué?	14:08
DocScrutinizer	insist in a maemo device!	14:08
Khertan_	haj: ? We didn't have anymore n900 unit available we will send you a Nokia 321	14:09
kerio	hold on, that's just for the time of replace, right?	14:09
Khertan_	haj: ? We didn't have anymore n900 unit available we will send you a Nokia 3210	14:09
Khertan_	lol	14:09
Juozapas	hi is it possible to connect n900 to internet cable via "lan port - microUsb" cable or some other way (not wifi)?	14:09
kerio	i mean, you get your repaired n900 back eventually	14:09
DocScrutinizer	sorry, insuline is out. Here, take some aspirin instead	14:09
DocScrutinizer	Juozapas: please check http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65570&page=26 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232&page=83, both backwards until you find relating posts	14:11
Juozapas	thx	14:11
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DocScrutinizer	haj: I'd not accept such nonsense	14:13
DocScrutinizer	they mustn't steal your N900 :-((	14:13
haj	I'm calling them already..	14:14
Juozapas	DocScrutinizer: but it looks like those topics are about connecting n900 to computer via usb cable and then taking internet from him or something like that.. i have only internet cable in my room and want to connect my n900 to the internet, i dont have any other hardware par example	14:15
DocScrutinizer	well, maybe if you get a new N8, just maybe you can sell on ebaeh and get enough money to buy a used N900. But then OTOH they should give back your defect N900 plus enough money so you could buy a used one or even new one wherever you find	14:15
DocScrutinizer	Juozapas: not at all, friend. not at all. this is about H-E-N	14:16
DocScrutinizer	~hostmode	14:16
infobot	[hostmode] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232	14:16
Juozapas	k i will read it	14:16
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DocScrutinizer	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1020765&postcount=815	14:19
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Juozapas	DocScrutinizer: :D thx	14:21
shark_eye	Has anyone tried building apps for maemo using opencv?	14:21
haj	shitheads...	14:23
haj	DocScrutinizer: I can get a new N900 on the web.. thing is it costs 1/3 more than a N8..	14:24
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haj	and noone wants a N8 so I can't sell it..	14:24
DocScrutinizer	Juozapas: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=990174&highlight=ethernet#post990174	14:24
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Dibblah	A "new" N900?	14:27
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Dibblah	I thought production stopped some significant time ago...	14:27
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Juozapas	one more question... is it possible to download all map of europe (or some region) to use map without internet connection? now im travelling a bit and when i go to new city (that i never tried to look on map program) it shows me only green background because program can't download streets information.. i hope you understand what i'm talking about	14:31
cloudyLights	you can do it with a windows pc	14:31
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Juozapas	im using default ovi maps	14:31
Juozapas	f*ck.. i have only ubuntu netbook with me and i left my usb cable at home too	14:32
haj	stupid fucking assholes..	14:35
ruskie	there is some howto for the ovi stuff iirc	14:36
Appiah	O_o?	14:36
ruskie	how to get all the maps for offline use	14:36
andre__	haj: got problems?	14:36
Appiah	ovi maps? dont think there is a offline feature	14:36
edheldil	Juozapas: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2009/10/13/downloading_ovi_maps_without_a_network_c	14:37
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andre__	ruskie, see the links in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9542	14:37
povbot	Bug 9542: Pre-download maps without MSWindows machine + Maps downloader	14:37
haj	andre__: Yes.	14:37
haj	andre__: If you didn't see it:	14:37
haj	Hi	14:37
haj	Please kindly be informed that N900 swap units are not available any more	14:37
haj	and the official replacement swap units of N900 is N8. Therefore you	14:37
haj	received this model, please do not send back the device.	14:37
haj	Thank you!	14:37
haj	Best regards,	14:37
haj	Dóra	14:37
Appiah	hhaha	14:38
Appiah	where did you buy it?	14:38
andre__	haj: uh. didn't see. thanks :-/	14:38
ruskie	haj, hmm I think I'd go to court for that	14:38
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ruskie	you can't replace a device with an inferior product	14:39
haj	I think I would too..	14:39
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haj	The least they could do is promise me a N950 when it's released.. or something..	14:39
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haj	I can't use a N8 for anything.. it's not even heavy enough for a decent paperweight..	14:40
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kerio	so tell them to give you a n900 or to stfu	14:41
ruskie	usually they repair centers atleast around here tend to try and go the path of least resistance	14:42
ruskie	but as soon you slam them they'll comply	14:42
psycho_oreos	some bloke the other day had his N900 swapped for n8	14:45
psycho_oreos	came into maemo channel posting link to his home made n8 usb hostmode or something	14:45
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RST38h	Does'nt N8 have host mode by default?	14:46
psycho_oreos	shrugs its symbian.. enough said :)	14:46
MohammadAG	OTG	14:47
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kerio	doensn't the N8 have otg?	14:50
kerio	ty MohammadAG	14:51
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haj	Who cares what the N8 has... it's inferior..as ruskie said..	14:52
MohammadAG	<ruskie> haj, hmm I think I'd go to court for that ++	14:52
psycho_oreos	that's what I said before to that bloke, I'd sue them	14:52
psycho_oreos	err not haj, another person	14:52
MohammadAG	either fix my N900 or send it back and I'll fix it myself	14:52
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MohammadAG	taking my N900 and sending me an N8 without permission is basically stealing my device	14:53
psycho_oreos	send it back without any extra charges or damages	14:53
MohammadAG	exactly	14:53
MohammadAG	I wonder why Nokia dropped the N900's support	14:54
MohammadAG	the way they "treated" it is worse than all other device	14:54
MohammadAG	s	14:54
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nid0	legally, you'd need a very friendly judge to get anywhere via court though	14:54
psycho_oreos	and owners have to cop the blunt end of it ironically.. even though it costs money to purchase the device in the first place	14:55
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ruskie	nid0, it might be enough to simply get a lawyer to nicely phrase something	14:55
ruskie	no need to actually go to court in the end... they probably don't want the mess anyway	14:56
psycho_oreos	I'm sure properly phrased terms could easily rule out a win	14:56
psycho_oreos	err loss	14:56
ruskie	hell they might even return it if politely asked	14:56
psycho_oreos	symbian isn't maemo, nor is it vice-versa. Period	14:56
psycho_oreos	Its like swapping a Merc for Toyota	14:56
nid0	they might, but at the end of the day you will still end up with a broken n900 and no fix or replacement	14:56
ruskie	nid0, we aren't talking about getting it fixed or replaced... just that they swapped it out without any consulting really	14:57
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ruskie	nobody said... sure I'll take the N8 as a replacement for the N900	14:57
nid0	yeah, exactly as the warranty terms agreed-to by sending the device to them undoubtedly say they will	14:57
ruskie	well they can swap it out for an equal or better device	14:58
ruskie	usually	14:58
nid0	if a device is unfixable, theyll replace it with a new one if available, or a pre-approved alternative if not	14:58
ruskie	well if it's not the same device I want a call and be consulted	14:58
psycho_oreos	depending on the owner's connections (via people), they can either get it fixed by someone else or they'll have to tackle it themselves. Either way, I would never want a n8 as a `swap device', even if it was given to me for free I wouldn't even want it	14:58
nid0	personally, I wouldnt see the problem in selling the brand shiny new n8, buying myself another n900, and pocketing the difference	14:59
nid0	win-win for me	14:59
RST38h	Mohammad: To be fair, N900 is not the only handset Nokia has been unwilling to support	14:59
ruskie	nid0, is the N8 pricier than a N900 ?	14:59
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nid0	yes	14:59
nid0	much	14:59
ruskie	that would work	15:00
psycho_oreos	n8 is nowhere near the equivalent of n900: no hardware keyboard, possible locked boot loader, doesn't have 32GB onboard and runs some other OS　that one wouldn't generally be happy with if they want linux	15:00
ruskie	frankly I'd ask them to refund me for the cost of it being broken and add a bit extra	15:00
nid0	you can get n900's for like £250 now, new n8's are generally somewhere around £400	15:00
ruskie	and have a spare n900 for parts	15:00
ruskie	and considering there is a 2 year warranty period on it I would expect they support it for 2 years	15:01
ruskie	not start swapping it out for alternatives after 18 months	15:01
psycho_oreos	alternatives for the equivalent	15:01
jaska	they have no equivalent	15:02
psycho_oreos	s/for/or/	15:02
infobot	psycho_oreos meant: alternatives or the equivalent	15:02
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DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	15:03
infobot	DocScrutinizer: thanks	15:03
psycho_oreos	jaska, apparently they're claiming N900's equivalent would be n8, or at least when they have to fix user's broken device	15:03
ruskie	haj, is this from nokia directly or some official nokia repair center?	15:03
DocScrutinizer	well, both start with N, and the first digit is only one apart	15:03
DocScrutinizer	;-P	15:03
jaska	psycho: ok, hope my n900 lasts till something good comes along :)	15:03
* ruskie is hoping for 6 years life out of his n900		15:04
psycho_oreos	or you can also look at n95, starts with N, and is missing one digit :p	15:04
* DocScrutinizer honestly considers getting a third device		15:04
psycho_oreos	jaska, only time will tell :/	15:04
ruskie	I still haven't gotten a second one	15:04
ruskie	I really should	15:04
MohammadAG	<RST38h> Mohammad: To be fair, N900 is not the only handset Nokia has been unwilling to support	15:04
MohammadAG	yeah I can see that, but why?	15:04
psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer, got two already? nice, that makes the third actual person that I know whom owns more than one N900	15:04
DocScrutinizer	was it this chan where I told about the 2 N900 I've seen in a shop, used	15:04
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DocScrutinizer	last night I passed by same shop, bot were gone	15:05
MohammadAG	psycho_oreos, plainly put, the N8 is boring after 2 days	15:05
psycho_oreos	:o	15:05
MohammadAG	also the low screen res actually makes a difference	15:05
ruskie	hmm ~200eur for the cheapest n900 second hame new in box	15:05
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ruskie	hmm interesting... someone is interested in exchanging a galaxy s for a n900 on an e72	15:06
ruskie	s/on/or/	15:06
infobot	ruskie meant: hmm interesting... someore is interested in exchanging a galaxy s for a n900 on an e72	15:06
psycho_oreos	MohammadAG, n8, better yet its a dead end for any maemo tinkerer :)	15:06
RST38h	Mohammad: They are a hardware company	15:06
MohammadAG	Nokia? Nope, they weren't	15:06
RST38h	Mohammad: They want you to buy phones as often as possible, thus planned obsolenscence	15:07
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MohammadAG	RST38h, the Nokia 5800 still gets updates every now and then	15:07
RST38h	Mohammad: Besides, stuff like N76 was just so badly design, in such a rush, that they would have to recall all 100% of these	15:07
RST38h	Mohammad: Because Nokia is still selling a shitload of 5800-derived models, the total number is about 8	15:07
psycho_oreos	or that 1100 incident?	15:07
RST38h	Mohammad: 5800 is far from dead. It is their low cost smartphone	15:08
ruskie	hmm I wonder if I have any spare 250 eur burning in my pocket next month...	15:08
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psycho_oreos	ruskie, still planning to get new one?	15:08
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ruskie	yup	15:08
psycho_oreos	nods probably better that way, I got myself a second hand one (which seller insisted brand new).. was pissed but oh well	15:09
ruskie	well second hand new in box	15:09
ruskie	stuff that people got with their cell phone contracts	15:09
ruskie	and are now selling	15:10
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ruskie	I will have to ask to see how much a new one costs though	15:10
FIQ\|n900	Seriously	15:10
ruskie	?	15:10
FIQ\|n900	I've never liked these "PC suite" stuff for any of my previous phones. or this one	15:11
ruskie	hahaha	15:11
psycho_oreos	be aware or those weird stuff they put in, like for instance a non-genuine USB->uUSB cable (mine lasted me two or so days before it fails to even work properly) and that wired headset with extra buttons	15:11
ruskie	I never used pc/ovi suite	15:11
jaska	wc suite	15:11
psycho_oreos	wc?	15:11
haj	ruskie: Nokia's main repairshop...	15:11
psycho_oreos	watercloset?	15:11
FIQ\|n900	For some reason - and this count for EVERY SINGLE PHONE OR CARRIER - Internet part of it NEVER works properly	15:11
jaska	psycho: yeah	15:11
haj	ruskie: Guess they only have one in Europe	15:11
psycho_oreos	jaska, lol	15:11
ruskie	psycho_oreos, naahh this are official in box everything as bought crap...	15:11
FIQ\|n900	If it works, I'm lucky	15:11
FIQ\|n900	But usually I'm not	15:12
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psycho_oreos	ruskie, nods	15:12
ruskie	haj, hmm well try contacting them to get your original device back	15:12
FIQ\|n900	It just states "something's wrong, maybe your phone is damaged? :("	15:12
FIQ\|n900	It NEVER states anything useful	15:12
haj	ruskie: it's broken	15:12
FIQ\|n900	like exactly why it fails	15:12
FIQ\|n900	or where	15:13
ruskie	haj, or contact your local consumer protection agency... they might be able to advise you if you can do anything	15:13
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psycho_oreos	they dumbed it down for the average joe. Gives them the excuse to have joe getting it fixed	15:13
ruskie	either legaly or even talk with them	15:13
FIQ\|n900	And reconfiguring the thing never help - if it works, it works, if not, too bad	15:13
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ruskie	haj, you could always get it repaired somewhere else	15:13
haj	okay.. they have told me that I have to contact the dealer that sold the device...	15:13
* RST38h finally conquered Android's NativeActivity		15:14
RST38h	Can now pass arguments to it!	15:14
RST38h	Any poor souls with 2.3 Androids willing to be my guinea pigs?	15:14
MohammadAG	qmltube runs so well on a PC	15:14
haj	they actually still have N900 in stock.. N8 costs DKR 2.695,-, and N900 costs 3.249,- ..	15:14
ruskie	haj, probably to see if the dealer can replace it under warranty(I'm assuming it's still under warranty)...	15:15
haj	it is...	15:15
FIQ\|n900	haj, they discovered that N900 was useful :)	15:15
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haj	I don't know if the warranty is reset when they give me a N8 ?	15:15
FIQ\|n900	anyway, is there alternatives to this crappy nokia PC suite?	15:15
ruskie	haj, it should be... for the N8	15:15
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RST38h	Alternatives for doing what?	15:15
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ruskie	FIQ\|n900, what are you trying to actually do?	15:15
ruskie	haj, since it's a new device the warranty should start from then	15:16
FIQ\|n900	use N900 as a modem	15:16
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, under windows?	15:16
FIQ\|n900	because i'm not home atm, etc	15:16
ruskie	usb networking under windows...	15:16
haj	ruskie: The N900 (that is proberbly scrap by now) is still under warranty until 12/2011	15:16
FIQ\|n900	currently, yes	15:16
nid0	you can just set it up manually, using bluetooth at least	15:16
ruskie	there is a usb network driver for windows as well	15:16
nid0	i've never gotten usb tethering to work properly though	15:16
ruskie	haj, irrelevant for the N900... the warranty is based on the new device... and usually needs to be reissued if the device is replaced	15:17
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FIQ\|n900	ruskie, but it worked just for some weeks ago, it's just... pc suite says i fail D:	15:17
ruskie	pc suite has always been a broken PoS	15:17
nid0	yeah pc suite is like that	15:17
FIQ\|n900	well, I'm unable to connect to internet at all with the computers... so drivers, I would have to download manually and transfer over :p	15:18
FIQ\|n900	the computer*	15:18
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ruskie	FIQ\|n900, got linux sources anywhere around?	15:18
ruskie	the driver is included	15:19
FIQ\|n900	i have linux as well	15:19
ruskie	specifically linux kernel sources	15:19
FIQ\|n900	if that would work better	15:19
FIQ\|n900	hmm	15:19
ruskie	linux usb networking should work fine	15:19
DocScrutinizer	tbh I don't understand why Nokia doesn't run another batch of N900. Manuf is cheap, once you got all set up correctly, and I guess they could get all the parts still	15:19
ruskie	load tho modules	15:19
ruskie	setup forwarding on the n900(you'll probably need to do some NATing so iptables)	15:20
* FIQ\|n900 takes a look		15:20
ruskie	there is a wiki page for this as well iirc	15:20
psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer, they probably lost interest.. kinda like a hyperactive kid who gets bored real quickly ;)	15:20
DocScrutinizer	seems like	15:20
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DocScrutinizer	sure N900 isn't a cashcow for them, but it'd help keep them in business for at least a while	15:21
ruskie	or some symbian product manager sent out a memo to mess up the maemo team...	15:21
MohammadAG	if only they pushed maemo and killed Symbian	15:22
ruskie	yup	15:22
DocScrutinizer	you typically don't need a team to run a sequel batch	15:22
psycho_oreos	however this is nokia we're talking about :) and they're trying to cut costs whereever they see fit	15:22
FIQ\|n900	if only they didn't throw MeeGo out randomly after spending huge amount of money on it	15:23
psycho_oreos	ditched maemo, killed symbian, watches meego and promises to release wp7... good one nokia	15:23
FIQ\|n900	(sure meego still something for them, but not much)	15:23
MohammadAG	they didn't throw it out	15:23
ruskie	they relegated it to long term R&D so basically same thing maemo was	15:24
psycho_oreos	they're not officially supporting it however it seems	15:24
MohammadAG	they should just FOSS'd maemo and continued on that	15:24
cloudyLights	MohammadAG: are you also in tel aviv this weekend?	15:24
MohammadAG	no need for MeeGo	15:24
haj	ruskie: They could replace it with a android device.. that would be less annoying... Even though I like maemo..	15:24
ruskie	they don't have those	15:24
haj	ruskie: but since Nokia doesnt do android ;)	15:24
MohammadAG	cloudyLights, nope, Jerusalem	15:24
ruskie	seriously though... nokia should have difersified more...	15:24
ruskie	even take on android devices	15:24
RST38h	ruskie: you should say that to the board once you become Nokia's CEO	15:25
ruskie	hehe	15:25
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ruskie	it's simple logic... do I want the punter going to HTC/Samsung/etc... for the device with this OS which the punter wants OR do I want the punter to buy MY hardware with that OS...	15:25
RST38h	ruskie: You should tell that to the Marketing department once you become Nokia's CEO	15:26
RST38h	BTW, 99% of customers do not know what "OS" means	15:26
ruskie	yet 99% of customers buy that shiny 'droid thing	15:27
psycho_oreos	its either be the black sheep or follow the herd. Elop chose to follow the herd even though that makes him in an unfavourable position just to satisfy his closest peers.　Had he chose to be the black sheep amongst the herd he might have found the winner in the bigger picture	15:27
RST38h	Because there are more models to select from and because it works for them	15:27
RST38h	They probably do not know what it runs, or want to know	15:27
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Khertan_	RST38h: no they didn't know what os mean, but they know what is an iPhone and a Android Phone	15:27
RST38h	Khertan: true, too	15:27
psycho_oreos	you can't not know iPhone lol	15:28
RST38h	Elop has chosen the third option and become the black goat.	15:28
Khertan_	RST38h: it wasn't an option	15:28
Khertan_	RST38h: he is trying to create the third option ... probably some cashback somewhere	15:28
psycho_oreos	if he chose the third option, he'd probably be facing a possible sack by the board of directors	15:28
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RST38h	Khertan: Ok, so he has made Nokia a sacrificial black goat.	15:29
cloudyLights	MohammadAG: do you need a 2400mAh battary for your N900?	15:29
psycho_oreos	so far there's no news indicating there's a bounty on Elop's head from board of directors :)	15:29
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Khertan_	did there us also ex ms people at the board ?	15:29
cloudyLights	I ordered two by mistake	15:29
MohammadAG	Mugen? nah, I have 4 1320 ones :p	15:29
RST38h	Khertan: At the end of the year, they will slash its throat, let it bleed, collect the booty and leave	15:29
MohammadAG	oh, how much?	15:29
Khertan_	s/us/is	15:29
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Khertan_	the only thing we can hope is a failure of WinPhone	15:30
Khertan_	and few sell	15:31
cloudyLights	a freind of a freind bricked his N900 while trying to put android on it	15:31
psycho_oreos	RST38h, and nokia's board of directors would have stupidly agreed to sacrifice the brand itself?	15:31
cloudyLights	did anyone here use jtag to revive an N900?	15:31
ruskie	psycho_oreos, for enough money I think most would	15:31
cloudyLights	this may be a chance to buy it for less	15:31
cloudyLights	how to un-brick a N900?	15:32
RST38h	psycho: Dunno, depends on who elects them there	15:32
Khertan_	cloudyLights: ^^Topic	15:32
cloudyLights	~topic	15:32
psycho_oreos	ruskie, true, money buys them almost anything these days.. even power :\|	15:32
RST38h	Eldar Murtazin, in the meantime, has switched to loud denials of any quality problems with Samsung SGS2 phones	15:32
RST38h	I wonder why such an abrupt change of direction =)	15:32
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psycho_oreos	RST38h, I don't know who votes them there but if it wasn't for the money I'm sure the board of directors wouldn't have been that boring to axe the long established brand name shrugs	15:33
ruskie	I thought the board is voted in by stockholders?	15:33
cloudyLights	o ok	15:34
cloudyLights	sorry	15:34
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Khertan_	psycho_oreos: except with some cash	15:34
Khertan_	the me me me syndrom	15:34
ruskie	sadly the me me me syndrom is spreading lately :(	15:34
psycho_oreos	khertan, portion, but yes ruskie pointed that out earlier.　Money just walks the walk	15:34
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haj	I wonder what they tell people that have paid for software for their N900's when they replace it with a N8?	15:35
psycho_oreos	unapologetically sorry? ;)	15:35
ruskie	haj, probably something along the line of: suck it	15:35
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ruskie	I always tend to go to the shop where I bought the device for warranty	15:36
ruskie	a lot of times they'll just replace it for a new unit and send the old one to be repaired	15:36
haj	ruskie: I guess so... Sygic doesn't offer replacement licenses	15:36
haj	for one	15:36
psycho_oreos	sure enough, not all maemo users are average joe who'd only use a phone as it is. Have a look at what Sony had to face for pissing its own clientele off	15:36
Khertan_	http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/corporate-governance/board-of-directors <<< doesn't seem uptodate	15:36
ruskie	psycho_oreos, frankly Sony hasn't really pissed me off	15:36
ruskie	but I'm probably in the minority	15:37
Khertan_	ruskie: you are	15:37
* Khertan_ boycott sony products		15:37
psycho_oreos	ruskie, in general Sony's PS3 lines were the ones that pissed that niche linux community off :). Those are the ones I'm talking about. They are essentially the worker bees that Sony decided to axe their hive and think they could get away with it	15:38
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ruskie	ahh	15:38
ruskie	Khertan_, due to?	15:38
* ruskie is interested in such reasons		15:38
cloudyLights	~seen lardman	15:39
infobot	lardman <~lardman@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 17h 21m 47s ago, saying: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13759612'.	15:39
Khertan_	ruskie: products dying one month after warranty, repairing a camera take 6 month without compensation	15:39
e0525417	I'm running kernel-power's "ideal". When I just do "kernel-config limits 500 900" and save as new profile, will the voltages be adjusted to the recommended values accordingly?	15:39
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psycho_oreos	in some cases I'd like to think that its more or less the same scenario here. There's already a small hacker community on maemo customising maemo in ways that nokia probably never thought possible. Nokia decides to behead the development, hopefully nokia will get its dosage of pissed off hackers ;)	15:40
ruskie	Khertan_, products dying after warranty is intentional by all manufacturers	15:40
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ruskie	Khertan_, the 6 month thing though most consumer laws have a max due date by which repair needs to be done or a replacement offered	15:40
ruskie	Khertan_, but you need to be the proactive party	15:40
Khertan_	ruskie: yeah ... pro active mean engage a lawyer	15:41
ruskie	no	15:41
ruskie	it just means go bug them until they do it	15:41
ruskie	if they ignore you bring in the consumer protection organisation(s)	15:41
ruskie	if they ignore that various trade inspectors work	15:42
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Khertan_	ruskie: i already do that ... to contact them ... pay by minutes number	15:42
Khertan_	ruskie: haha ... consumer protection organisations ?	15:42
ruskie	I always handle this stuff in person	15:42
Khertan_	in france ?	15:42
Khertan_	haha	15:42
Khertan_	they help you to engage a lawyer	15:42
ruskie	Khertan_, you don't have that?	15:42
Khertan_	but you have to finance it	15:42
ruskie	around here if you are a member you get free legal advice... ani they will deal with them on your behalf	15:43
Khertan_	they give you free advice ... with adresses of specialized lawyer	15:43
Khertan_	:)	15:43
ruskie	ahh so nothing like our own	15:43
ruskie	ours tend to annoy people even when not asked to	15:44
ruskie	they're actually usefull to have	15:44
Khertan_	the best way to fight against problem is boycotting company you know have poor customers services and quality product	15:44
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ruskie	though for me usually it helps if I'm getting crap from the service to get their director and talk to him	15:44
ruskie	Khertan_, well I haven't had such issues with sony products yet	15:45
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ruskie	and I have like a 12 year old sony crt tv and a near 20 years old sony mini component hi-fi	15:45
Khertan_	i got a camera which died without reason, a hifi, and a home cinema sound system	15:46
ruskie	yes both had to be repaired but it was wear and tear not something that was deffective	15:46
ruskie	and I have a ps3 since a little over a year ago	15:46
ruskie	and bought 2 flatscreen tvs this january	15:46
ruskie	with 5 year warranty on those flatscreens	15:46
Khertan_	my neightboor is still fighting with sony warranty for his ps3	15:46
ruskie	what happened?	15:47
Khertan_	since january	15:47
ruskie	when did he buy it?	15:47
Khertan_	ruskie: died ...	15:47
Khertan_	11.99 month before	15:47
ruskie	sucks :(	15:47
ruskie	hmm that definately should be fixed under warranty	15:47
Khertan_	so they claim than when they receive it wasn't under warranty	15:47
ruskie	did he fire off an email to them?	15:48
Khertan_	even if he call them before the end	15:48
ruskie	something that is documented	15:48
Khertan_	and got a return number	15:48
FIQ\|n900	i found this wikipage - http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking#Behind_the_scenes - but it's about Maemo 4	15:48
Khertan_	in fact the problem is more complex	15:48
Khertan_	they return it one time saying it s repaired	15:48
Khertan_	but didn't	15:48
SpeedEvil	Argh.	15:49
Khertan_	and when he wan't to return it again, they say that warranty is over	15:49
Khertan_	usual	15:49
* SpeedEvil reads backscroll, and realises he should have sent his device off for repair before now.		15:49
ruskie	Khertan_, sucks I guess for such things...	15:49
psycho_oreos	SpeedEvil, you have broken USB port?	15:50
SpeedEvil	psycho_oreos: I have somewhat dodgy modem that sometimes forgets it has a SIM installed	15:50
ruskie	Khertan_, well I tend to always do any warranty stuff in person since they are less likely to try and get around things...	15:51
Khertan_	"Nokia announced on March 11, 2011 that it had paid Elop a $6 million signing bonus, “compensation for lost income from his prior employer," on top of his $1.4 million annual salary" <<< oh ... i found the R&D budget for MeeGo Handset at Nokia	15:51
psycho_oreos	SpeedEvil, you're not telling me this is N900? :( My N95-1 has a very similar issue	15:51
SpeedEvil	psycho_oreos: yes	15:51
FIQ\|n900	oh, mine does that as well	15:52
psycho_oreos	SpeedEvil, happen to know which CPU rev is that?	15:52
FIQ\|n900	though it was just my sim card that had small problems	15:52
ruskie	though had to threaten the local irobot repair&distribution director that I'll do everything in my power to get rid of their license if they don't fix an error that irobot accepts as an issue... I probably couldn't do it but I would cause so much bad publicity that they wouldn't be able to shift ...	15:52
ruskie	... much units	15:52
ruskie	Khertan_, fun	15:52
FIQ\|n900	but fiddling with it usually helps, or does i mis-understand the problem?	15:52
FIQ\|n900	thought*	15:52
FIQ\|n900	do*	15:53
RST38h	Khertan: Elop is actually more important to the corporate hierarchy than a bunch of weird geeks working on an obscure research project for years	15:53
RST38h	Khertan: Elop brings change!	15:53
RST38h	While geeks only bring negativity with their petty technical squabbles	15:53
Khertan_	RST38h: :)	15:53
ruskie	hehe	15:54
* RST38h trolls on		15:54
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SpeedEvil	psycho_oreos: 2101	15:54
ruskie	geeks make the world go round	15:54
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Khertan_	RST38h: hum ... be carreful the server you are using for chatting is made by geeks	15:54
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, if I'm not mistaken, it sounds like there's a fault with SIM area :( My N95-1 had that problem, often more than not it randomly says "Insert SIM car" and you can't do anything else apart from pulling battery out, reinserting SIM, replace battery and turn it back on again.	15:54
ruskie	or as someone commented... geeks are meant to get the general public interested in various gadgets so they sell	15:54
SpeedEvil	psycho_oreos: exact same fault.	15:55
RST38h	Khertan: I am bringing them enlightenment!	15:55
Khertan_	psycho_oreos: most time i got this problem with device it s a defect sim card.	15:55
SpeedEvil	psycho_oreos: I need to reboot.	15:55
psycho_oreos	SpeedEvil, hmm.. I think that's also the same rev as ones that reported uUSB socket falling out	15:55
psycho_oreos	Khertan_, but then what if it was working fine before without any hitches before all of the sudden you get prompts like that?	15:56
psycho_oreos	SpeedEvil, yeah that'd also work but not always for me in the case of N95-1.. I haven't had the same issue with my N900s	15:56
* Khertan_ have problably one of the first revision of n900 ... i got some error too like that. I think my n900 was the problem, and since i change the sim card i didn't get them anymore		15:56
SpeedEvil	Khertan: I've changed SIMs, and it still happens	15:57
Khertan_	:(	15:57
psycho_oreos	I can't replicate the problem as the SIM card that I got was a prepaid and it was expired not long ago	15:58
e0525417	does "kernel-config limits 500 1000" automatically set the appropriate volatages?	15:58
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Khertan_	e0525417: http://bit.ly/m5zMeu	16:00
psycho_oreos	hmm that reminds me... about first revision of N900. Yesterday I was playing with 0xFFFF extracting FIASCO　images, when　I targeted N900's FIASCO image, it writes out the filename along with all the possible revision numbers that came with N900 for files like secondary and xloader	16:00
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Khertan_	there is so much revision ?	16:01
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psycho_oreos	khertan, http://pastebin.com/NwzFHq15	16:02
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psycho_oreos	or maybe a group I suppose	16:03
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Khertan_	2nd-RX-51 ?	16:05
Khertan_	there is a first ?	16:05
Khertan_	:)	16:05
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Khertan_	psycho_oreos: 2101	16:06
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Khertan_	psycho_oreos: didn't know there is different keyboard texture	16:09
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psycho_oreos	Khertan_, I don't know if that's actually the first or are these sub-versions refer to something else completely different. My N900 are rev: 2204 and I can't find that number on pastebin	16:09
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FIQ	Tried another thing first, and it worked	16:09
psycho_oreos	different keyboard texture? shrugs this is global PR1.3 firmware btw	16:09
FIQ	(tried to use mobile hotspot -- allthough it loves the battery, it works)	16:09
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psycho_oreos	so your N900 needs to be sucking off your computer's power through　USB　port ;)	16:10
psycho_oreos	that and its insecure (uses WEP)	16:10
Khertan_	psycho_oreos: rev 2204 ? cat /proc/component_version ?	16:10
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psycho_oreos	Khertan_, haven't tried /proc/component_version, I did /proc/cpuinfo however	16:11
psycho_oreos	yeah hw-build is the same as /proc/cpuinfo's revision.. 2204	16:11
Khertan_	indeed cpuinfo give me the same rev number	16:11
FIQ	(15:09:13) (psycho_oreos) so your N900 needs to be sucking off your computer's power through　USB　port ;)	16:12
FIQ	nah, I use wall charger :P	16:12
psycho_oreos	hehe we're on the same page :)　but I wonder what's those numbers are for.. I　can't find 2204 in that or in the information 0xFFFF dumped so it must be basing off something else	16:12
psycho_oreos	FIQ, much better :)	16:13
Khertan_	psycho_oreos: i found this number in the image : http://pastebin.com/UBG0h26p	16:14
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Khertan_	2204 seems to be a german variant	16:14
psycho_oreos	Khertan_, different fiasco?	16:15
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GNUtoo	hi,	16:15
GNUtoo	how do I kill Xorg	16:15
GNUtoo	I want to do some ts_test	16:15
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Khertan_	psycho_oreos: don't think	16:19
psycho_oreos	Khertan_, just wondering where you got that from though :)	16:21
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Khertan_	psycho_oreos: i got that from my flasher log	16:26
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psycho_oreos	khertan, :o ... same file right? global fiasco firmware	16:30
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mr_jrt	Random query: Is there another source of documentation for Maemo5's telepathy API? (other than http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/telepathy-glib/telepathy-glib-account-manager.html) - I'm using QtCreator and that doesn't provide the headers for telepathy-qt4, meaning I'm stuck with telepathy-glib, and the version provided doesn't even so much as list the Dbus properties available. Given that is my first attempt at any direct Dbus interaction via coding...thi	17:34
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waters	Hello guys ... I have a problem with my N900, while browsing the web using my TP-Link TD-W8920G Router the N900 seems to crash the whole network	18:41
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MoonTiger	hey guys	18:43
MoonTiger	would you say its better to use c or c++ for developing stuff on maemo?	18:44
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jacekowski	waters: i had same shit on iphone with similiar router	18:57
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waters	jacekowski: okay ...did u get a new router or did u fix it?	19:00
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jacekowski	waters: i got rid of iphone	19:07
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mr_jrt	@moontiger In my ridiculously limited experience, maemo is hevily gtk-based, so you're going to be doing C-style coding regardless of the API you choose at some point.	19:12
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waters	jacekowski: hmm well i dont wanna get rid of my N900 :)	19:14
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rm_work	MoonTiger / mr_jrt: well, I believe you can also use Qt now, which is C++ (in my equally limited experience)	19:22
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MoonTiger	thnx guys ... i think i'll stick to c	19:22
MoonTiger	im just playting with writing a simple identica client	19:22
waters	does anyone else know why the n900 could cause my router to crash?	19:23
MoonTiger	waters ... is your laptop on the same router?	19:23
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waters	MoonTiger: yes	19:26
MoonTiger	what are you doing on the router in total?	19:26
waters	MoonTiger: laptop and desktop computer all on the same router	19:26
SpeedEvil	waters: How close is your n900 to the router?	19:26
MoonTiger	any torrents going?	19:26
waters	MoonTiger: well let's say about 10 meters and no torrents going on	19:27
MoonTiger	what do you do on the n900 that causes the issue?	19:27
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MoonTiger	and keep it decent pls!	19:27
waters	MoonTiger: well usually just downloading a app from the app manager or browsing the web which both then causes the router to crash	19:28
MoonTiger	what router is it?	19:28
SpeedEvil	waters: Ok - my thought was that the phone part is disturbing the router - but not at that distance	19:29
waters	TP-Link TD-W8920G	19:29
MoonTiger	are you sure there is no ip clashes?	19:29
waters	I have manually entered the IP for both my Laptop and Desktop computer	19:30
MoonTiger	and they are outside of the dhcp pool?	19:30
waters	MoonTiger: brb	19:31
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hillbicks	hey everyone	21:10
SpeedEvil	yeu	21:10
hillbicks	anyone knows if sygic is no longer selling mobile maps for the n900?	21:10
SpeedEvil	Have you looked on their site?	21:11
hillbicks	i just get 404's with the old links and can't find anything on their page	21:11
SpeedEvil	well - that would tend to indicate...	21:11
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hillbicks	i know, right? but i thought _maybe_ someone in here has some insight	21:12
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mrsellout	hillbicks: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=996885&postcount=43	21:19
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hillbicks	mrsellout: thanks for the bad news. ;)	21:23
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BluesLee	hi, what to do if the emmc partition for MyDocs gets a read-only filesystem? why this happens?	21:25
BluesLee	the file /etc/fstab contains a "rodir" entry, can i remove that?	21:26
BluesLee	no	21:27
BluesLee	the file looks the same as on my second n900 ... reboot did not help	21:31
BluesLee	2nd reboot did it	21:33
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ioan	anyone interested in a cheap N900? I wonder if I should buy it :-) http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/mob/2443726362.html	22:21
jacekowski	well, if it's stuck in rebootloop then you may have a problem	22:22
jacekowski	because why he didn't fix it?	22:22
jacekowski	it's 60s with flasher	22:22
ioan	probably the owner doesn't know how to flash it? who knows what os version he has on it	22:23
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jacekowski	i would be cautious	22:23
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ioan	never heard of the reboot loop problem that doesn't fix with a reflash... did you?	22:24
jacekowski	nope, but i know that there are some hardware faults that may cause it	22:24
ioan	maybe I should charge the person 25$ if I can fix it :-))	22:25
rm_work	ioan: i had a rebootloop once that required me to send my device back to qgil	22:27
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rm_work	lololol	22:28
rm_work	that brings up a good question	22:29
ShadowJK	I've heard of emmc breaking, rootfs breaking, bad cpu and bad ram..	22:29
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rm_work	who is alterego's main ego? :P	22:29
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ioan	rm_work: I sent an email to the seller to ask what OS version does he have, and when he reflashed last time. If he doesn't know what I'm talking about... then probably it's an easy fix	22:31
rm_work	heh	22:31
rm_work	good call	22:31
rm_work	though if he uses reverse psycology on you, he'll play dumb ^_^	22:31
ioan	hehe	22:32
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NIN101	Can anyone say something in regards to the compromised comodo SSL certificates in microb? Are they marked as "untrusted" now? Or are we doomed to trust OSCP servers on the N900? Just can't check this issue myself for a time, so if anyone cares...	22:57
MohammadAG	microB shows the same security exception as in firefox	22:59
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ShadowJK	In general, no settings or software or certificates have changed since october 2010 on N900	22:59
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NIN101	:-). And also gecko vulnerabilities since this time could be possibly exploited, as nobody updates microb, right?	23:04
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ShadowJK	NIN101, right	23:17
GNUtoo	hi, I'd like to kexec a maemo kenrel, but I don't really like the overclocking of kernel-power	23:17
GNUtoo	does the kernel-power overclocks by default?	23:17
SpeedEvil	kernel-power does not do overclocking unless you set it up	23:17
GNUtoo	ok	23:17
GNUtoo	thanks a lot	23:17
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jacktheripper	has anyone tried compiling GTK3 on maemo ?	23:18
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MoonTiger	hi guys	23:26
MoonTiger	is there a libgrss package available?	23:27
NIN101	well we could probably stem the problems if they grow bigger in the future a bit with SElinux (should be available and working, though don't like it), ACLs etc. We also could run the applications in question as seperate users (but then we should remove the "sudo gainroot" etc. stuff :-)) and then hope for the best. Also there some issues with package signing IIRC, but anyway.	23:29
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SpeedEvil	http://b3ta.com/board/10451686 hehe	23:32
RST38h	Moo all	23:34
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RST38h	SpeedEvil: http://www.etoday.ru/uploads/2008/02/05/cologne_rosenmontag14_nokia.jpg	23:39
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SpeedEvil	Awesome	23:41
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